Pathfinder General

First for ALKENSTAR AP W H E N?

>>49717135
I don't think posting cute anime girls is gay but this pic surely is.

>>49717200
OP is always a fag anon.

>>49717135
If I was a cute girl I'd let him princess carry me.

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>>49717135

So, started up with a new group. They decided Pathfinder since they had a passing familiarity with it. It's my first time playing specifically Pathfinder, but I've done a bit of 3.5 so I kinda know how it goes.

Built myself a summoner because the eidolon buddy sounded fun, but now we have an issue. How does combat and turn structure work with summoned buddies? Do we go on our own initiatives? Does it act on mine? Do we each get our own actions, or does my spellcasting make it unable to attack?
I couldn't really find anything in the book that spelled this out, and everything I've found online says it basically comes down to whatever the table decides it is.

>>49717302
>playing a chained summoner on a game full of newbies knowing nothing about the class.
Its like the class calls the assholes.

>>49717135

In honor of this vaguely homoerotic OP, what was the most "manly" character you've ever played or seen played?

>>49717302
Each summoned creature (including your Eidolon) gets its own turn with full actions.
Summoned creatures have the same initiative as you, and act the round they are summoned.

You might see why this becomes broken really quick.

>>49717328
What's the problem with a summoner?

>>49717376
If you don't know what you're doing you're going to slow the game down by taking your turn, your eidolon's turn, summoned creatures turns, plus possibly flipping through rulebooks to see what everything can do.

If you do know what you're doing, it's easy to completely dominated the game with a Summoner and make the other players feel worthless. Incidentally it's possible to do this even if you don't know what you're doing.

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>>49717369
>>49717463
Well darn, I just wanted to have a guy running around with his magical buddy.

>>49717517
Promethean alchemist + preservationist

>>49717644
That is literally just a shittier, different summoner.

>>49717692
yes, that way he wont ruin the newbie game so easily.

>>49717705
The funny part is that I already made an impression the first session by just have an unkillable buddy.

I think I can avoid ruining the game if I just play smart and don't try to optimize to hell and back. It's not like I do anything on my turns anyways.

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>>49717705
But it is actually legitimately WORSE than poorly playing a summoner, because you have no limit on summons you can have out, AND you have to juggle your homunculus at the same time as your summons. Since you also have no other real features, you HAVE to then abuse your summoning economy, or else you and your homunculus end up just being an expert and a half standing there with your thumbs up each others asses.

>>49717814
Have you actually played a Promethean?
Every week or so some guy playing it comes to complain on how shitty he is compared to the rest of the party.
LoLmemeSUMMONRUSH can only take you so far.

>>49717851
I'm pretty sure he's ass blasted because an actual summoner came in. But the point isn't that it's stronger than a summoner (because it's not), the point is that it's an even bigger mess than the summoner and is likely to slow shit down even more.

>>49717851
The Promethean Disciple is stronger if you combine it with the Polymath than the Summoner. And it can be fun at higher levels if you can start giving your Disciple Martial Training, or even better if your GM is willing to homebrew with you to give your Homunculous access to maneuvers like the Ambush Hunter.

Stupid question: Why does the Vitalist get the ability to cast Expansion and Timeless Body over his Network, if he can't actually cast Timeless Body?

>>49717978
I dunno. At least the SRD Class List says they get it.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/power-lists/power-list-vitalist

>>49718011
Yeah, I don't see Expansion on that page.

There are a few powers on that page that don't list vitalist as a class that can learn that power.

>>49718046
I would say if the Vitalist specifically says it can use those powers, I would probably err on the side of that than the power list, which is kind of wonky.

>>49717517
>I just wanted to have a guy running around with his magical buddy.
There are tons of classes that give familiars, and the Improved Familiar feat opens up a lot of magical options. Familiars usually cause less game clog during combat than summons.

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Does a large size shield provide a greater AC bonus for my medium sized creature with powerful build?

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Sup, /pfg/
Can I get some more feedback and input on my homebrew class, the Empyreus?
Its designed to be a well-rounded class capable of covering offense and support with a few crowd control tricks.

Update: I now included 3 new archetypes
The Discordant is a more crowd control and offense oriented archetype
The Harmonist is a more support and healing oriented archetype
The War Weaver changes it to a Path of War class

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1xQMlB45-UFEWCB2ffqoBUMhR-t4afSXLk29fgTJNVyw/edit?usp=sharing

posting a cute THICC semen sorceress to get your attention.

>>49718090
NOPE.

>>49718090
Not by RAW, but your DM might allow you to treat a tower shield as a heavy shield. AC isn't going to make or break your character past about level 6.

>>49718090
Depends on your DM.

If its a tower shield, you should logically be able to gain a total cover bonus

nominally, a larger shield boosts its damage, but not its AC.

>>49717978
>>49718011
>>49718046
It's likely just an editing error. Timeless Body appears on the spell list, but the spell itself doesn't have the Vitalist tag. Unless errata'd, it's up to the dm, but the ability is still useful if you use a feat or other ability to add it to your list of powers known since it just grants the specific spells listed the Network descriptor.

>>49718090
Equipment AC bonuses don't change with size. Main AC benefit of large objects is total cover.

>>49718101
I'm going to level with you. You've posted this for, like, ten threads with zero response. I don't think anon is gonna bite. You might have better luck posting this on Giant in the Playground's Homebrew board.

>>49718101
I apologize for having nothing to say about it. I simply have no opinions.

>>49718101
It's a little dense to parse, but I'll have a look when I've got some time

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Just started reading the Gianslayer adventure path. Any one have experience playing or running it? anything to look out for or you think should be added?

As a player, what's important to know about Mummy's Mask? Are there any cute NPCs?

>>49717355
Played an evil campaign where another PC was basically Gaston, only better and an even bigger braggart.

>>49719800
Read the typo as Gainslayer for a minute and thought about an AP where you try to prevent anyone getting over Str 10.

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>>49720063
>Read the typo as Gainslayer for a minute and thought about an AP where you try to prevent anyone getting over Str 10.

I'd play it

>Have step up chain feat
>Every archer has that feat that doesn't provoke if they fire ranged weapons in melee
>Every caster has concentration over the roof
>Every reach weapon user has that feat that allows them to attack with them at 5ft
>"GM, why?"
>"Do you expect me to make this easy for you?"
Fuck this I'm out of here

>>49720171
Quick! Dominate those barbarians into cardio!

>>49720308
>Update
Is there a reason why enemies should make themselves helpless to player tactics for no good reason?

>>49720308
Were all the enemies designed against your specific PC?

>>49720308
>>49720325
I think the complaint was more so about the fact that EVERY instance of him using a chain of feats to their best was instead met by enemies that went "meh".

It's worth noting that if it's been a while since he's gotten this chain of feats (in-game) and it's known (in-world) that you go around stabbing evey caster and archer you can find and stick to them like glue...I don't see why they wouldn't make preparations against you. Especially if they're guarding something specifically against your party or aware that you're spending a large deal of time in their area.

>>49720325
He could have inform me of that before spending 3 damn feats for nothing, that's literally half my character progression

>>49720436
If it makes you feel better, he probably would've worked against you if you spent any amount of effort on a feat tree. It's kind of his job.

>>49720517
>GMs job is making non caster useless

>>49720517
He's doing a poor job if ALL of them do it.

A DM isn't supposed to make a player's choices feel pointless. The fact the guy's getting no use out of it and feeling regrets over his choice solely due to the choices the DM is making means that the DM is doing it wrong.

>>49720540
Not what I implied.
>>49720544
True. If they're ALL casters and archers that completely negate his choices, then it's an issue. If SOME of them are ignorant of his abilities (which some should be unless he's a figure renown across the realm) or simply idiot; and SOME of them are aware of who he is (perhaps employed by someone who knows him as a threat)...well, that'd be much better.

It's not the GM's job to make the players useless, it's their job to challenge the players. Sometimes that involves putting out stuff made specifically to stop them, sometimes it means giving them a bone.

>>49720540
Oh boy here we go guys

>>49718101
Alright, here we go, some notes.

Link looks a lot like the Vitalist collective feature, but I'm guessing that's on purpose? The 12th level link power (the hp sense) could stand to be moved to a lower level. It's at 7 on vitalist and not that much to write home about. The level 18 feature is interesting, but it's listed before level 16.
Can siphoning quintessences be taken at level 1? Any level restrictions on quintessences? Being able to grant a fly speed, short as it may be, from level 1 seems like a good way to get the class banned. (DMs hate flight, in my experience)
Siphon Negative Energy implies there's supposed to be a cost for siphoning. Does combat siphoning allow for iteratives with siphon?
Otherwise it looks kind of solid, but has the 3E warlock problem of doing 10d6 (plus cha) once a round, at level 20, which isn't super good. The siphon quintessence riders help, but if it's meant to do damage, feats/items/quintessences that boost damage somehow (or iteratives)would help. I'd have to play it to get a real good feel on it, but it at least looks playable, with some of those questions answered. Another good question might be: what makes this better than a vitalist?

>>49720575
Yeah.

Also, even if he's world-renowned, not everyone he fights is going to be specifically trained to fight against and counter him.

>>49720576
Not him, but usually if GM always has a way to deal with a spell, sleep 8 hours and you have a new list of spells. That doesn't happen with feats

>>49720657
>if GM always has a way to deal with a spell, sleep 8 hours and you have a new list of spells.

What games are you playing where the caster knows what the GM's going to do before it happens?

>>49720308
That will show you to not play a martial and not to spend precious resources in useless chain feats.

>>49720674
If your GM has countered, I dunno, color spray, every fucking time you can be sure he's going to keep doing it, so sleep 8 hours and pick another spell

If your GM has been countering your three feats, reroll, you can't do shit to change it

>>49720688
Retraining feat rules, though the t takes several weeks, money and you need a trainer who has the feat you're looking for, so pretty much impossible

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I want to make one of the villains a recurring character in my RotR game.

Nualia seems like the obvious choice, especially since one of the players is an aasimar paladin of an opposing deity. Anyone done something similar?

>>49721143
>spoilers
>filename
well I fucked that up

>>49721143

Nualia only really works well as a one-off villain, she's already got a full character arc that leads to her inevitable death at the hands of the party. Sure, she might seem like someone that deserves more development, but I think that was a stylistic choice on Paizo's part, presenting a throwaway antagonist and developing her to show that yes, even the "Boss of the Week" characters had a life that led them to this place.

The better recurring villain for RotRL is Aldern Foxglove.

/pf/, I need help with the thief, it's a new class for me and I don't know how to exploit the skills
is it better to have few skills at the top (12 skills for me) or more skill unlocked just to have the chance to trow the dice?

>>49721195
play the unchained rogue

>>49721143
2nd for Aldern.
Or justice Ironbriar.

Also Mokmuriann worked sort of. My partys diviners were able to namedrop him early in the game, by the time they actually fought him he had been building up for months as a the guy in charge of everything bad.

>>49720604
>he's world-renowned
I have a question for you /pfg/. How often do foes recognize your character or party and attempt to flee in terror while shitting their pants?

>>49721195
If you have 12 skills per level, pick out 6-9 skills and keep those topped off at the maximum rank. Use the others to get points in everything else.

>>49721445

It doesn't happen enough, honestly.

Hell, recognition in general is in critically short supply; every time you meet someone who praises your skills, it's always, "very good, very good... HOWEVER."

That said, an argument could be made that high-level parties do not have low-level encounters precisely because the bandits laying in wait know that you're bad news.

>>49721445
>Enemies
>Fleeing
Never, really, in all the years everytime I played DnD/PF enemies fight to the bitter end, unless a spell forces them to flee (and then they return after the effects disappear) they never flee.

With all the groups I've played it was always like this.

>>49721195
>>49721443
Yeah thinking about it more Nualia doesn't have that much to do with the overarching storyline.

I like AF's arc because it's so tragic but he's definitely a good option.

>>49721491
thats cause people don't think about enemies with less than TO THE DEATH morale

>>49721166

I really appreciate that about Nualia, actually. She's about the most generic type of villain you can get (the religious whackjob worshiping a CE monster deity who wants to destroy the village to get power) but the book goes a very, very long way towards explaining why she became this way and even present her as, in some respects, sympathetic.

She's built as a statement, being the first boss of their first campaign for the setting. Nualia was an attempt to subvert the faceless villain whose hunger for power was whipped up because the plot demanded it.

What are the best enchantments to put on a Throwing Weapon? Specifically double wielding Chakrams.

>>49721491
I actually run my games like this. Generally at least one has to die with the rest *significantly* weakened before I have bandits and other independent forces flee. Soldiers will only be commanded to retreat if most of them are dead - if the higher ranked dude giving commands is dead they can be swayed by deliberate PC intimidation efforts to retreat sooner though.

>>49721637
That's not like what I've been dealing with.
In the games I play enemies fight to the bitter end, we're 5 they're hundred? they don't stop till all of them are dead or all of us are dead, initimidation? that's only a small penalty they still fight to death, diplomacy? they ignore you

>>49721574
Returning.

>>49721677
Sounds like your games suck.

If it is 5 vs hundreds, yeah diplomacy is going to fail, but when it becomes 5v10, I think the last 10 are smart enough to GTFO.

>>49721714
Returning sucks dick. Craft a Blinkback Belt in a different item slot for 50% increased cost.

>>49721727
Can you do that in Pathfinder?

>>49721727
What if firearms ignored 1 AC per range increment

Like if the enemy is in the 10th, they only ignore 1, but if they're in the 1st, they ignore 10? Idk.

>>49721748
This was not meant to be a response

>>49721740
I can't find the rules for it now, but I could have sworn that was something in the rules, not just a homebrew our GM let us do.

>>49721748
Why? Firearms already hit touch AC at first range increment. They don't need anything else.

>>49721740
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items#TOC-Adding-New-Abilities

>If the item is one that occupies a specific place on a character's body, the cost of adding any additional ability to that item increases by 50%. For example, if a character adds the power to confer invisibility to her ring of protection 2, the cost of adding this ability is the same as for creating a ring of invisibility multiplied by 1.5.

>>49721773
this would be instead of hitting touch AC in first increment

And would be intended for an advanced firearms everywhere setup

>>49721740
Depends on the GM. The magic item pricing guidelines are explicitly GUIDELINES, not hard-and-fast rules that must - or should - always be adhered to.

>>49721236
>>49721455
thank you

>looking at Cavaliers

>Dune Drifters pretty much have already used half the ideas I would use for a new Order of Cavaliers for Navaros.

This is annoying, but not impossible to overcome.

Does anyone love how many options there are in character creation?

I was working on a beastmorph alchemist, and i generally just thought that it would be a shittier barbarian with extracts, but then I realized that "grab, pounce, fly60" were options you could just have when morphed.

It is much easier to interdict a caster when you grapple them, as opposted to just threatening them. Freedom of movement exists, but not everything has it and being able to do a 180ft charge pounce grapple is really incredible in certain situations.

>>49717135
I need some build advice, no 3pp because it's all unbalanced and broken shit.

>>49722777
Put your high stats in the most important stat for your character class. Choose relevant and useful feats and class abilities. Take items that match what you're trying to build for.

>>49722777
bait

>>49722777
Play a monk, put your highest stat in wisdom. Dump constitution, you have good fort save anyway.

>>49721574
Hard to say, in my experience throwing is a hybrid of melee and ranged combat. I would avoid enchantments that can't be applied to both instances like Returning.

>>49722856
>not charisma or intellegence

>>49722878
>I would avoid enchantments that can't be applied to both instances like Returning.

Returning is basically compulsory unless you have some other method of getting the thrown weapons back.

>>49722954
Is chasing the person that they are sticking out of and murdering them an appropriate method of getting them back?

>>49722954
Blinkback belt or Belt of Mighty Hurling.

>>49722878
Thank you for the advice. It looks like my weapons will most likely be Holy (campaign versus nothing but undead and things from Hell), Distance, and probably Flaming/Shocking/Icy.

>>49722907
Remember that monks are secondary skill monkeys, so you need decent int. Charisma is so you look good while bullrushing enemies through the window.

>>49723009
Holy isn't worth it. +1 atk +1 damage is worth more than +3.5 damage generally. Remember that each +1 to hit is +5% damage, so once your damage gets high enough hitting every time is better.

ricochet toss is probably a good idea.

>>49723034
>monk
>secondary skill monkey
What?

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>>49720171
Gains eh?

>>49723076
memes and bait

>>49723073
>Remember that each +1 to hit is +5% damage
Only if you were hitting at 1 and want to hit at 0. If you hit at 10, +1 to hit is +10% dpr on highest BAB attacks, and even more at iteratives.

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>>49721445
I'm starting to think it won't be long now. Our party is starting to get rather known across the continent (at the very least one member has leadership to insane levels) and my character's more or less BRRRRRT incarnate.

partially charged wands

>>49723135
well yea. I wasn't clear.

Each +1 is +5% closer to your "maximum" dps. So if you hit on a 10 then you deal 50% of your damage, and adding another +5 is nice.

but yea you are right. I just was trying to explain it in a simpler way.

Can someone explain to me how to make an attack roll? shit seems complicated:

Roll attack roll.
If 20,
-Automatic hit, possible crit
-make another "attack". if it is hit or better, you crit.
Else if in crit range
-Possible crit
-Make another attack. if hit, you crit, if miss you miss attack totally.
Els if hit
-deal damage
Else if miss
-do nothing

>>49723193
That is exactly it

You do not need any more explaining

>>49723193
Roll d20 + your bonuses.

If = or higher to enemy AC you hit (some attacks target different ACs but you just compare against that different number instead is all)

If below or natural 1 you miss (1 is always a miss unless you have a special mythic ability that says otherwise. As always "specific trumps general")

Nat 20 always hits and can even prevent SOME abilities from blocking/stopping your hit because it's automatic

If it's in the weapon's threat range and you hit (this is why nat 20 does this) you roll again to "confirm":
>If the second roll - not a separate 'attack' but obviously it's the same bonuses,etc is also a hit, critical
>otherwise normal hit

So the conditions are actually just Hit Y/N and "if hit in threat range, roll again: confirm Y/N"

>>49723193
You missed one. Roll a 1, automatic failure.

Just start simple. See if you hit or miss first then worry about criticals.

Also note, just because it is a critical threat, does not mean it hits (unless you rolled a 20).

>>49723193
Roll d20
if(total >= AC || nat 20)
if(roll >=crit range)
roll to confirm
if(confirm >= AC)
crit
else hit
else miss

Note that if you make a confirmation roll, that means you've already hit the target; nat 20 always hits and threatens, but if you have expanded range, rolling in the range of the weapon does not automatically mean you hit, and if you don't hit, you don't threaten.

>>49723291
Also, fuck 4chan for fucking up the formatting.

Hey Forrest, if you're here, can you answer a question I have about the Spellburst Savant?
Can I use Extracurricular study to learn a cantrip, or a spell of a level lower than my maximum, for example, learning 2 level 1 spells instead of 1 first and 1 second level spell?

>>49723332
Since we are summoning Forrest, is there a reason Spellburst Savant gets 5th level spells, not 6th level?

>>49723525
Oh if I recall Forrest had answered that one: Basiaclly, 4th level caster wasn't good enough with Nova, but 6th level was a bit too much, so, despite the standard options, Forrest just went "fuck it, 5 is where the balance is"

>>49723541
Just claim it's a callback to Duskblade.

Ok.

Homebrew Order of Cavaliers for a guns everywhere old west setting

#### New Order: Order of the Wanderer
Cavaliers of the order of the Wanderer ride along the frontier lands of Navaros. They are the first responders to trouble, and bring true frontier justice from horseback, and many times, at the barrel of a gun.

Edicts: The cavalier must help innocents unable to fight for themselves, and strive to bring outlaws to justice, no matter the cost.

Challenge: When an Order of the Wanderer cavalier issues a challenge against a foe, he may instantly make an attack of opportunity against that foe. In addition, an Order of the Wanderer Cavalier deals damage equal to 1/2 his level on ranged attacks against the target of his challenge.

Skills: An order of the Wanders cavalier adds Perception(Wis) and Survival(Wis) to his list of class skills. When using these skills to track an outlaw he gains a bonus on these checks equal to 1/2 of his cavalier level.

Special: An Order of the Wanderer Cavalier can use a a distinctive hat, a badge representing their authority, or another distinctive piece of clothing as their banner.

cont.

>>49723640
Order Abilities: An Order of the Wanderer cavalier gains the following abilities as he levels up.

Recoil Compensation(Ex): At level 2 an Order of the Wanderer cavalier gains the ability to weild and fire Rifles and Shotguns with one hand.

Trick Riding(Ex): At level 8 an Order of the Wanderer Cavalier gains the ability to perform the following tricks while mounted:

Drop down: The Cavalier and dropdown and use his horse as cover while continuing to ride and can make ranged attacks while hanging from the side of his mount.

Standing Shot: The cavalier can stand on the back of his horse, the additional height provided by this allows a Cavalier to double the range increment of ranged attacks he makes.

Leaping Charge: A Cavalier may end a charge by leaping off his mount and into the fray. A cavalier that does this deals double damage with the first melee attack he makes against the target, and may immediately make a grapple check against them, gaining +10 to the CMB and without provoking an attack of opportunity

Gunsmoke and Blade(Ex):At level 15 an Order of the Wanderer Cavalier can, as part of a mounted charge, make a full attack action using a firearm. This is in addition to the normal melee attack of a charge, and are subject to the normal penalties for firing from a running mount.

Feedback? Wording problems? I need eyes other than mine on it.

>using revamped firearm rules
>rifles have 240 foot range
>can fire at ever-expanding range increments with tempest gale
Oh yes, I know exactly why I have this boner. Just too bad vital strike sucks horse penis.

>>49723561
Why would there be a need to?

>>49723743
That way you don't gotta explain shit.

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>villains who are willing to bet everything on their ideals
>ask players if they are the same
>players realize they aren't and that they'd run to save their ass

>there is a villain team
>they are able to survive and win due to their trust in one another and friendship
>most of the party fucking hate each other

>villain seems to be a schemer
>players don't try and investigate skills
>he's the strongest
>turns out he's leader for a reason

>>49723753
Why is there a need to explain it? There isn't a rule it contradicts or anything, or even some design principle it breaks. It's only unusual because Paizo are uncreative and like to do the same things over and over.

So lets clear it up:
If you get a non-natural-20 crit threat, and miss on the confirmation roll, do you deal normal damage or not?

>>49723864
you deal normal damage

>>49723869
so a crit range of 15-20 means that no matter what you hit if you roll higher than a 14 on your first attack roll? Completely ignoring AC?

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>>49723758

>Always making suggestions thinly disguised as demands
>The party rolls over and accepts them as fact
>mfw

>>49723899
No. You only get confirmation roll if your original roll would hit.

>>49723848
It was a quick non-answer to an unimportant question. Stop thinking about it so much.

>>49723899
No, you only get a confirmation roll if the crit threat would hit

Only Natural 20s hit no matter what

>>49723899
no
you only autohit on a natural 20, and you THREATEN if your die comes up 15-20. on a threat you roll again with the same bonuses/penalties and if that second roll would be a hit the attack upgrades to a critical unless something is immune/protected from criticals (like slimes or someone with fortification who rolls his chance of negating it)

If you roll a 19 and that's not good enough to hit because it's your fourth iterative and they do have good AC, then you missed. You didn't threaten, you didn't do damage, you just missed. A natural 20 would have hit but you might be unable to crit without another natural 20 in that case.

>>49723922
ahh: ok:

Roll attack roll:
>20
Auto hit, atempt to confirm
>greater than AC in crit range
Hit, attempt to confirm
>greater than AC but not in crit range
Hit
>less than ac
miss
>natural 1
miss forever and always

>mfw i'm dumb

>>49723946
unless they have cut/smash from the air in which case they can just spend an AoO (they may have infinite amounts of them if mythic) to just negate the hit anyways. ONLY way around that particular ability is 3pp: Hunting Zephyr pulls a Magic Missile with your shot, and since there's no to-hit roll to beat you can't beat it with cut or smash.

>>49723985
only works on ranged attacks tho.

>>49723991
Yeah but if you're any kind of ranged character that's a pretty hard counter.

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>>49723332
... I'm away from my files right now, but you probably /should/ be able to, even if the ability doesn't say that. I've been dealing with the aftermath of Hurricane Matthew and can't feasibly update the thing right now, but it'll have wording for that next time I do so.

>>49723525
What >>49723541 said. 4-level casting proved to not scale fast enough, 6-level casting was a bit much, so 5th-level is where it settled.

>>49723561
I did, in fact, look back to the Duskblade to figure out how I wanted to work the progression.

>>49722754
You will be able to charge, pounce, and murder your allies with incredible efficiency with your will save that low.

>giving gunslingers debuffing trick shots
>there are a lot of debuffs to give
>realize I am not sure how many of these there should be
>considering combining a few the same way dirty trick does so the sickened trick shot becomes nauseated, the fatigued becomes exhausted, the entangle becomes pinned, etc.

Probably will be prudent so I'm not stuck with actually 20 trick shots to choose from.

>>49723650
>>49723640
Any feedback on this?

>>49724151
10 sounds good. potentially one every other level like blade skills or rogue talents

>>49724137
This is why you always have your sorcerer have you Dominate Person'd constantly with a headband of persuasion and the proper ioun stones. Because wresting control is an opposed charisma check unless the enemy is another sorcerer he has no chance, and even if he is likely the sorcerer has a better chance. Slap a few easy reroll items on and have him Dominate Person the whole party, then have another caster dominate person him and have a contingency greater dispel on for if ever loses his roll and gets dominated.

>>49724136
Do you/did you live in Florida, Forrest?

>>49724165
See there are gonna be about 10 trick shots that replace an attack in a full attack, then there is the AoE abilities, then there are a few Antes, then just a few buffs. The UC gunslinger gets 10 Deeds, plus he can grab more with feats.

I always put my goal to allow variety to be 3x what they are expected to have. I assume one of their feats are used for an extra deed, so the goal for number of deeds is 33.

>>49724187
Yea, but if your allied caster is god forbid a wizard or doesn't go after the enemy caster and before you he is 100% dead.

Only a few wizard builds could survive a pounce-grapple murder attack, and those will be shit at being an actual wizard.

>>49724193
North Carolina. It wasn't as bad as it could have been where I am, but I'm still with intermittent power and no internet right now. Currently posting from campus on my laptop, but since I do my writing in InDesign...

>>49724151
I think a good number for options like that is enough that there's at least 3-4 more choices than the number of ones you get... Or exactly the amount that you get, meaning the player merely picks the order.

>>49724238
(Alternatively, a shitton of options. Going for broke with variety can be great but you need to take care to not cause option panic).

>>49724238
>I think a good number for options like that is enough that there's at least 3-4 more choices than the number of ones you get...
See this is what I normally shoot for as well, I do 3x and assume they spend at least 1 feat to get an extra.

>>49724215
He could just emergency force sphere when the pounce comes at him. It isn't build heavy to just prepare the spell, however yes, if you don't have a charisma caster using opposed charisma checks doesn't work.

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>>49724136
>I did, in fact, look back to the Duskblade to figure out how I wanted to work the progression.
Called it!

>>49724288
Hey Forrest, you might know the answer to this.

How would I go about finding out who owns and who to contact about the possibility of buying an old (10+ years) unused and unplayed intellectual property? As far as I can tell Mongoose publishing owns the Infernum d20 line and nothing is ever going to be done with it, but I have grand ideas and an autistic bug to scratch.

>>49724290
Like for instance this is one of the updated Trick Shots:

(T) Gel Round (Ex):
Active: Active: The Gunslinger fires a hollow ball filled with an expanding gel that covered the target and hardens in an instant. If it strikes an enemy they must have a reflex save equal to 10+½ the gunslinger’s level+his intelligence modifier or be entangled for 1d4 rounds. At 9th level this duration increases to 2d4 rounds, and ad 17th level it increases to 3d4 rounds. At 11th level the Gunslinger has the option to instead inflict pinned, but if he does the number of rounds it is inflicted is reduced by 1d4 rounds (he rolls one less 1d4). If the Gunslinger rolls max on any of his duration dice he may roll them again, adding both values together. He may have a total number of rerolls up to his intelligence modifier (minimum 1).
Passive: The gunslinger gains a +1 bonus on saving throws that would render him entangled. This bonus increases to +2 at 5th level and every 4 levels thereafter (to a maximum of +5 at 17th level). At 11th level this bonus also applies against effects that would make him pinned.

So 1d4 entangled at low levels heading towards 2d4 and 3d4. He can instead do pinned, but it doesn't last as long. All of the change overs happen at 11th level.

The change overs are:
dazzled -> dazed
fatigued -> exhausted
sickened -> nauseated
entangled -> grappled
shaken -> frighten
prone -> staggered

The ones that don't change are (these have minimm level requirments):
deafened
blinded
cursed
confused
bleed
fascinated

Now ones that don't inflict conditions include:
>One that counters stuff like Crane Wing/Cut from the Air/etc.
>One that gets past concealment
>One that makes the enemy glow like a torch
>One that releases a paste that begins shrieking

>>49724290
>EFS
God damn this game is so fucking broken. It doesn't even block most mind-affecting spells, so EFS+magic jar is totally okay.

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>>49723758

>mfw the PCs don't stand for anything other than their own personal vendettas or filthy lucre
>mfw they don't even try to get an ideology if it's smeared on their faces
>mfw the lone PC that gives a damn always seems to get either tired or very uncomfortable being the center of attention all the ding dong time
>mfw the character personality does not match the character design
>mfw someone unironically likes skub
>mfw PC insists on a noble background yet never expands on their noble holdings and relationships with their liege
>mfw every potential conflict ends in a vote rather than character building debate

>>49724372
I would probably contact whoever owns its copyright right now (which seems to be Mongoose) to see if you can buy or license the rights. Otherwise, no idea. I'm not a lawyer and copyright law is a fucking maze.

>>49720604
Not getting smacked in the face when firing into melee is basic competence as an archer/caster in Pathfinder.

Not to mention PBS is a prereq for a lot of archery feats.

>>49724463
Point Blank Shot does not negate AoOs. Point Blank Master does, which requires Weapon Specialization. This means only Rangers and Fighters can get this feat (fighters can start getting it at 5th level, rangers at 6th).

>>49724421
If you'll be all about the dosh, at least be a proper entrepreneur.

>THIS is the service/product I will spread across the world
>And I will get so fucking rich with it

>>49724501
There's also the gunslinger feat

and the empty quiver style line

>>49724463
Actually it's not; it's the end point of a rather nasty feat chain for the average 1pp character.

>>49724532
You have to take a swift to enter the style once battle starts though.

>>49724567
>>49724501
My fuck up.

Point still stands, if the enemy archers are fighters(which they probably are) then it's just the player being S.O.L.

>>49724601
That's a big assumption. Not all enemies are fighters/rangers or have this particular feat tree. I will admit if they're a ranged specialized ranger/fighter they probably have it (because getting hit in melee is scary).

>>49724601
Actually even that is fucking with the player: most npcs are supposed to have substantial NPC levels.

If everything you encounter that's ranged or castery is explicitly built with the abilities that negate your build, that is not only contrary to average population measures but shitass GMing.

It's like if you make an archer and suddenly EVERYTHING you encounter has a way to negate/ignore flatfootedness AND either smash-from-the-air or an emergency force sphere.

That means EVERYTHING has the precise feat chain or abilities - even if they're extensive and/or rare - that counter you and only you.

NO DIFFERENT than if every single dungeon was an antimagic zone that only affects your evoker (because the conjurer laughs at those)

>>49724695
>Actually even that is fucking with the player: most npcs are supposed to have substantial NPC levels.

I fully agree with the rest of your post, but as a GM I almost never use high-level NPCs that actually have levels in an NPC class(nobles are sometimes exceptions, and maybe experts and adepts in some circumstances, but certainly not warriors or commoners), and as far as I can tell, the same is true of most other GMs as well as published material.

Wanting to run my players through Carrion Crown. How is it?

>>49724817

It's okay, and by "okay" I mean the sort of okay where it's actually fine to run it, not the okay where it's not offensively bad yet lacks anything worth mentioning.

>>49724826
Any alternatives you could recommend? Wanting to get something premade together for a Halloween type campaign.

I Want to play a goblin archer.

What's better going as a fighter, a ranger or something else?

>>49724948
Sorry forget to say. As for now gm wants us to stay first party.

>>49724948
zen archer monk

>>49724968
It really depends on what you want out of this archer.

>>49724948
Eldritch Archer Magus.

>tfw you get no feedback ;.;

>>49725005
(you)

I need to be convinced this is a stupid idea. I talked about it a few threads ago and now refined the idea.

There are two gunslinger deeds that essentially amounts to hurting yourself to squeeze out some power. Push your Limit is he low level version and Toe the Line is the high level. They consume an ever increasing number of grit points and deal nonlethal damage (it's exponential). After all the grit points are gone it deals lethal damage.

However what I have added so people don't just toggle one round of it is that it staggers you for a short while when you come out of it and it requires a save to turn off. The save gets more difficult depending on the number of rounds it has been on.

This means you hit a tipping point where you can no longer make the save and are going to burn out.

Now to prevent being stunned and just dying from that any round you don't have control of your character for any reason you automatically attempt the save.

>>49725033
thanks homie

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>>49725005

While I did not get a chance to give you feedback, I am sure you're doing everything in your power to make whatever product you're working on the best it can be!

>>49725152
Why would you ever actually use that?

>>49725152
What can make it a bad idea is exactly Burn.
"you're balanced around not using it MOST of the time, you just use this a few times per day!"

Either go Overchannel, where you directly pay with lethal damage here and now, probably per-shot, or make it just a "you expend more grit" or other daily-resource use system.

The biggest risk in making it an optional extra-cost is that, like the kineticist, your maximum output is balanced around when you use it, but the limitations on it (like the double or triple penalties and costs associated) ensure you're paying heavilly for your per-day ability.

>>49725252
Because it's cool.

>>49725220
you could also just give feedback on it

Its this garbage
>>49723640

So, I'm having a bit of trouble with character motivation/backstory in my current campaign. I'm playing an evil chef who, at the moment, is largely focused on spreading his name and gathering wealth to both become famous and get his own chain of restaurants going. He's petty, violent, has a big ego, and doesn't much care about the plight of others.

But where I'm experiencing issues is where to go from there. What is the evil end game of this that doesn't necessarily put him at odds with the rest of the party and start a fuckfest?

>>49725331
I don't know about you, but the combination of "deals exponentially increasing damage to yourself" and "can't be turned off at will" just makes me not want to ever touch it unless the bonuses are literally around "The enemy dies, no save, doesn't matter what the enemy actually is." level.

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>>49725352

Well gosh, I can't figure out any good feedback because none of what you wrote seems like it needs fixing. Honest.

>>49725365
>What is the evil end game of this that doesn't necessarily put him at odds with the rest of the party and start a fuckfest?

Open up a five-star restaurant and serve the rich, famous and very well-connected?

>>49725365
Becoming a super conglomerate and forcing all other chefs out of business, genocide against food creatures forcing the world into more and more unethical solutions to food problems.

>>49725407
Ok, cool

I already made some little changes to the drop-down ability so that its not something you'll always do (can't full attack while doing it), but its a neat trick for some stealthy fun or a risky situation. I should probably put in the time it takes to do each trick riding action.

But I'm glad it seems decent. I just hope it also looks fun

>>49725416
>genocide against food creatures forcing the world into more and more unethical solutions to food problems.

This one doesn't seem right for an evil chef, he doesn't sound like he wants to do evil for evil's sake, he's just an egotistical asshole.

>>49725450
Then become a corrupt super conglomerate using shady tactics and practices to force others out of business with cheap food and muscle your control over the lowest market then gradually work your way up through society until you own it all.
Really depends on the overall group goal is it destruction, corruption, or control.

>>49723640
>Make an attack of opportunity when issuing a challenge.
Can guns make an attack of opportunity?

Also does Guns Everywhere actually fix the problems with guns?

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>>49725152
What might be interesting to do is have something tag you with a condition that affects your future moves to boost something current.

>Use ability, boost full attack, staggered for X time
>Next round or couple of rounds, you've got standard action deeds/abilities/whatever.
>You can ignore this stagger for a turn, but if you do, you're nauseated in the next round (and no longer staggered).
>You recover after a round of being nauseated.

So it basically lets you toggle the ability on and get an alpha strike round, then in the next rounds you need to use alternate abilities. If you want to use it again, you can do another boosted full attack round, but then you do /nothing/ for a round after that.

Don't tie it to a per-day attrition thing, but instead balance it around being soft-limit/"per-encounter" ability; you're expected to cycle one of the following progressions during a fight:

>(1) Full attack → (2) full attack → (#) full attack → etc
>(1) Push the Limit full attack → (2) trick shot debuffer deed → (#) trick shot debuffer deed → ??? → (eventually) stagger ends → etc
>(1) Push the Limit full attack → (2) ignore stagger/Push the Limit full attack → (3) nauseated for a round → (4) status cleared in the 4th turn → etc

And are possibly limited in how you do it by grit, but not by burning out your HP.

>>49725407
That's not evil in any capacity, though. It's just... running a restaurant.

>>49725450
Nailed it.

I'm not going for "NYEH! I WILL STOMP THE PUPPIES AND MURDER THE PEASANTRY TO MAINTAIN MY ERECTION!", since I'm trying to have a functional party. He's just the kind of guy who doesn't sweat the means to accomplish a task, and is so self absorbed that he thinks it's perfectly acceptable to grossly overreact to a slight. If a merchant tried to cheat him, he'd feel the urge to just burn the shop down and leave. But he wouldn't, because that's stupid and you can't blend into society like that.

>>49725526
Guns everywhere doesn't fix every problem, but i've got a few ideas. (like no misfires unless you start fucking w/ the gun) It certainly lessens it as you simply need to take the rapid reload feat for gun use to be good with basically any gun.

It doesn't fix all the problems (one of which is that touch-AC attacks trivialize a lot of big enemies when guns are everywhere), but it solves the big problem of them being garbage due to reloading bullshit.

On the attack of opportunity thing... I don't actually know. I used the wording of attack of opportunity because its an attack thats out of the usual order.

Usually AOOs are only caused by doing AOO-able things in threatened areas. So..

I don't know if it breaks anything or if there's a better way to word it.

>>49725526
Not really. They're still overpriced (yes even at 10%) compared to the power, range and capabilities of a longbow, and yes that's WHILE inside the touch-AC range; outside touch-increments they're worse trash than a crossbow.

You can make them viable with enough tricks, 3pp in particular, but they'll never be on the level of the almighty bow.

>>49725637
what makes bows so much better than guns?

>>49725568
>>49725152

Something important to note is that in PF, fights don't actually last a particularly long time; your "ever-increasing amount of grit points" might not be a relevant number, because most fights last 3-5 rounds at the most, unless something weird goes on, someone intentionally drags it out, or it's a multi-wave battle.

So you should design your timing-based abilities with that in mind; anything that hits you past the 3rd round or so is probably irrelevant, because you and your party can likely end the battle before the drawbacks begin to happen.

>>49725365
Read a cooking manga, pick a villain, take notes.

Become famous, get a line of restaurants, ruthlessly crush other restaurants and peoples' ways of lives, abuse legal loopholes, manipulate the market, discredit competitors... Your goal is to become the best restaurant and chef you can, at all costs. Or perhaps it's to prove that your way of cooking is better than others. Or maybe it's to garner political power through food. Lots of options.

>>49725661
>Something important to note is that in PF, fights don't actually last a particularly long time; your "ever-increasing amount of grit points" might not be a relevant number, because most fights last 3-5 rounds at the most, unless something weird goes on, someone intentionally drags it out, or it's a multi-wave battle.
I'll be honest I likely am not going to include it. I like the idea conceptually but it doesn't work for how combat functions in PF.

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>>49725609
>That's not evil in any capacity, though. It's just... running a restaurant.

It's all in the manner of running it, anon.

There's a brothel mistress in Kalsgard called Belende the Showy whose Chaotic Evil. Why? She pays her girls well, keeps her place tidy and in order, but is utterly ruthless and cunning when it comes to acquiring profits and decreasing the competition.

That's how you get your Evil alignment; it's not enough that your business succeeds, other restaurants must fail. The rival chef won't accept your generous bribe? Plant rats in his kitchen. The land-owner won't sell you the plot for a new franchise? Frame him for a crime and buy the property when it comes up at auction.

>>49725648
Arrows are cheap and easy to load.

>>49725691
Fair. It's a really cool concept, so I figured I'd post up my thoughts.

It's at the front of my mind because I've been trying to think about how to make a proper "Hellfire Warlock" option work on the Avowed. In 3.5 it was just a trivial-to-mitigate math fix, but I've got working math in the class itself and don't /need/ the damage boost to exist just for people to be viable, so it's a bit weird.

>>49725727
You trade rapid reload and a bit of gold for getting to hit touch AC and x4 crits

Its really pretty decent

>>49725790
>You trade rapid reload and a bit of gold
And access to all the bow-specific feats and easy to access stat-to-damage.

>>49725821
What bow specific feats?

>easy access stat-to-damage

Indeed, part of revamping guns would be to give dex-to-damage fairly easily. (Maybe build it in? I don't know)

But attacking touch AC is like, super strong, especially later in the game, thats a lot more attacks you're hitting.

>>49725648
>Exotic Proficiency Feat for anything below Commonplace/Everywhere to use firearms
>Misfire rules
>Rapid Reload required for full attacks
>Even at Guns Everywhere level, extremely expensive compared to bows and arrows
>Extremely short range, early firearms only hit touch AC in melee reach
>Like crossbows, reloading provokes, not just shooting (bows are only on shooting from the start as pulling, nocking and drawing/aiming another arrow is a non-action)
>No stat to damage. Getting that is a specific special class ability
>No Manyshot
>Less feat and magic item support: You can't get as many bonuses, enchantments, etc. In most cases this is because they are explicitly locked out; ie "you are not allowed to do this with firearms"

Keep in mind when people talk about bows massively out-DPR-ing other ranged weapons, it's done so with the other ranged weapons in their ideal conditions. So that pistol is being outdamaged inside its 20ft range, by the composite shortbow at 50ft or the longbow at 100ft.

>>49725864
Lack of dex to damage would be fine if guns weren't bad in other ways.

>>49725897
To be fair, Manyshot just shouldn't be a fucking thing at all.

>>49725450
Doing Evil for Evil's sake is not nearly the normal way creatures on the material plane earn their Evil inclination. Sure it's what demons are about, but hurting innocents to achieve your selfish goals is the way an Evil mortal shows their alignment mostly.

>>49725661
>because most fights last 3-5 rounds at the most
In my experience it's more like 2 at best and if it drags on beyond that it's either a formality or the DM is spamming us with reinforcements Fire Emblem style.

Which is fine by me.

>>49725738
the stat damage is kinda like what happened with Burn, so probably not the best of ideas.

speaking of wavecannons how about charged shots?

>>49725897
Yes, but I'm working entirely on Everywhere to use firearms

I'm going to remove Misfire from the default firearm setup.

Stat to damage can easily be made a feat.

Increased magic item support

Changing advanced firearms (Rifles/Shotguns should hold like, 8 rounds, lever action baby)

Are guns good? I think they'll be good. Do I think guns are good in default pathfinder? No. I never said that i did. I don't think anyone outside of insane paizodrones do.

Manyshot is bullshit but thats bullshit i can't do anything about.

>>49725924
Perhaps, but it's unfortunately a thing, and it isn't on crossbows but on what was already the strongest ranged weapon

>>49726033
Charged shots are wonky for the same reason "build-up" mechanics often are; if I do something like a wavecannon for the avowed, it may just end up being something similar but not identical to >>49725568.

Hyper Beam-style.

>>49726043
>stat to damage can be made a feat
NO. NO NO NO NO NO YOU GODDAMN FUCKING RETARD WHAT THE FUCK HAVE WE BEEN EXPLAINING TO YOU.

THE FUCKING FACT THAT YOU ARE SEVERAL FEATS BEHIND - RAPID RELOAD, NO MANYSHOT, A FEAT FOR NO-PROVOKE ON RELOAD AND NOW ANOTHER FEAT JUST TO GET THE STAT TO DAMAGE THAT THE BOW GETS TO BEGIN WITH, *IS* ONE OF THE MAIN FUCKING PROBLEMS THAT ENSURES "JUST GRAB A BOW WITH ANY FUCKING CLASS" IS BETTER THAN A FUCKING SPECIALIZED CLASS SPECIFICALLY BUILT AROUND THE SPECIFIC WEAPON DOING SO.

>>49726103
Calm the fuck down nigger.

>>49726070
are we talking R-90 Ragnarok I hyper beam style or are we talking Samus Aran hyper beam style?

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>>49726103
Chill your fucking pipe, dude.

Ever stop to think they'll be removing OTHER necessary feats?

>>49726117
NOT UNTIL YOUR IQ CLIMBS UP TO TWO DIGITS. I WILL NIGGER UNTIL THEN.

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>>49726123
We are talking Pokemon-style Hyper Beam. Not 100% sure. See also, >>49725568 for a similarly-styled effect (but not the implementation I'd be looking at).

>>49726103
What if we just combined the no-provoke, stat to damage, and "free action reload with any weapon of x category" into a single feat. It could be Crossbow Mastery and Gun Mastery.

>>49726043
>I don't think anyone outside of insane paizodrones do.
Eh, people are going to say I'm insane for this but at high levels you outperform bows by using Pistols of the Infinite Sky with a two weapon fighting style as Gunslinger/Barbarian/Alchemist

I did the number crunching at some point. However it only edged it out by a little.

>>49726103
You've been explaining it very poorly, probably because you're frothing at the mouth over a fucking table top game. Chill out dude. We can have a calm conversation about this. There's no reason to sperg the fuck out.

Ok.

So here's the thing.

I can't make a gun equivalent to Manyshot. It makes no sense. I cannot prevent people from using it with my rules. I have accepted this.

Guns hit touch AC. Thats a pretty big up.

Rapid reload is a really boring bad feat in my opinion, plus it forces overspecialization in guns. I don't like it that much.

If we give guns dex-to-damage out the door, they do become comparable to bows in the same way that bows have str-to-damage, This could be ok. However, guns should have some downside for being able to hit touch AC. This should probably come in the form of a feat tax.

no-provoke on reloads is really small. Sure. We can fold that into rapid reload or whatever it will be.

From a simulationist standpoint its really frustrating for reloading to have zero mechanical downside, but from a gameplay standpoint it may be something that has to happen if guns are to compete with bows.

>>49726192
something like this is ok too.

>>49726239
Yeah but that requires huge feat and gold investment specifically for use with only those two weapons. Its pretty crap.

>>49726165
R-90 hyper beam is a short chargeup; on release an energy cone pulses back into the ship's nose (damages nearby enemies), and for about 8s it rapidfires charged shots (think 2 rounds of full attacks of oversized vital strikes; you'll get 20+ shots out of this in-game).

Super Metroid's Hyper was just a rapid-fire oversized plasma beam (in a good way not a paizo way) that goes through anything.

A pokemon-style Hyper Beam would require a LOT of power to make up for losing your next turn; that's two rounds of full attacks it has to be worth replacing. Probably a "wide line"

>>49726239
For similar investment you could probably get extra arms and dual wield longbows for even greater output capability

>>49726293
Part of me wants to have reloading as a thing that still happens, but for it not not HAVE to be done multiple times a round. Like, once every two or three.

I acknowledge I'm basically Revolver Ocelot at this point.

>>49726309
Not losing your whole turn; just reducing what you can do in the next turn. Wide/3.5-style line is just gonna be a shape ("Aether Lance") in the next Avowed update, once I have the full version of book 1 ready for upload.

>>49726336
Basically thats where I'd like it as well. I think it should be something that happens after awhile. Which is why I think rifles should be updated to level actions that can hold like 4 rounds.

I feel like guns lose a bit of their magic if you don't ever really care about reloading. You know?

Are any of the. Paizo vigilante archetypes currently stackable under Pathfinder rules?

>>49726359
Mm.

I think one issue is that the basic firearms only hold one round, and fighting with them as a primary weapon is as impractical as it was back then.

And then none of the ADVANCED firearms have much capacity either, except the Revolver, which probably only has 6 shots because even Paizo knew they couldn't get away with anything less.

So Increased Capacity is definitely the way to go.

I'll probably dip into this when I get back to poking at the tech rules.

>>49726328
Not in 1pp unfortunately.

>>49726293
>Yeah but that requires huge feat and gold investment specifically for use with only those two weapons. Its pretty crap.

Yeah agreed, and it requires dumb multiclassing.

>>49726402
On simple research the 'rifle' I'd base rifles on for revamped firearms would be the Winchest 1973, which had a 15 round tubular mag

I feel like reloading a rifle every 15 shots is completely fair. Make it a swift action or something and I feel like that shouldn't bother anyone.

I have a harder time applying something like that to revolvers, you generally want to reload revolvers after each round.

>>49726450
Winchester 1873. Fucking hell my fingers slipped

>>49726450
Revolvers are FAMOUS for speedy loading though. If you're good enough.

And this is fantasyland, we're supposed to be good enough.

https://youtu.be/lLk1v5bSFPw

>>49726450

But six shots are more than enough to kill anything that moves.

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How do I make a Warlock? Hopefully in both playstyle and fluff, but I'll take just fluff if need be.

>>49726482
Pistols free action to reload (balanced by shit range increment), rifles/2h guns swift (15 rounds for a swift might be fair), no need for rapid reload as a feat at all.

Dex to damage natural

No misfires unless you fuck with your gun.

sound reasonable?

>>49726504
Be a Cleric that worships a demon lord/fiend.

>>49726504
Fluffwise Witch is good.
Vigilante has an archetype that's kinda a lamer Warlock.
Is 3pp allowed?

>>49726482
That's if you're both agile, trained and prepared (pre-loaded speedloaders). Certainly doable given the dexterities in fantasyland here obviously.

Of course, on that front, if you want proper war-worthy arrows on a 130+lb draw longbow, you need a couple of seconds too; a short self-bow with no real power or range behind it as is usually used in trickshots goes faster obviously but that's not going to give you a stick that can fire off and recover from 24str

>>49726537
I feel like a faster/easier reload is balanced out by the fact that you shoot FAR slower in Pathfinder than you actually could.

Like, four attacks from BAB, then haste and rapid shot, you got 6 shots.

In six seconds.

The guy in the video up there did quadruple that, and I highly doubt he's a level 16 full-bab class.

>>49726591
Nah dude he's got a mustache at least level 16

>>49726528
Is it really the same though?
>>49726529
By GM approval, he doesn't approve much though.

>>49726591
Six carefully aimed shots against a moving dodging target, mind.

>>49726628
A target with often supernatural reflexes. However you also have supernatural aiming, so what ever.

>>49726628
True, but the world record is QUADRUPLE that.

This is what I'm doing with my Auto rules.

Basically rather than one shot per attack, you shoot an extra number based on the Auto rating of the gun, with each extra shot improving the effective size of the weapon. Some guns can choose to auto or not have the option and have to (Like say, a chaingun)

And then Gunslingers as a Deed can make Revolvers count as having auto 1, and later, auto 2.

So with Auto 2, you'd be firing 3 bullets per 'attack', and the damage dice would go from 1d8 to 3d6. So a 4-attack full attack would be 6 shots, reload, then another 6 shots.

Which brings us up neatly to that world record. And this is before things like Rapid Shot.

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>>49726591
>mfw imagining someone being able to fire a revolver 24 times in one round
>mfw all those fucking rolls against touch AC

Shit son, even with just base damage, assuming you have a way to mitigate misfire that sounds pretty fun AND hilarious. Broken as fuck, probably, but hilarious.

Simple Archetype for Fighters to deal with getting shot at more

"#### New Archetype: Nimble Fighter

Proficiency: A Nible Fighter is not proficient with Heavy Armor

Dodge Training: At 3rd level nimble fighter grows adept at dodging the blows of his enemies, gaining a +1 dodge bonus to AC. This increases to +2 at 7th level, +3 at 11th, and +4 at 15th. This replaces Armor Training 1,2,3, and 4.

Dodge Mastery: At 19th level a nimble fighter can as an immediate action, select a foe and focus on dodging their attacks. This doubles their AC bonus from Dodge Training against that foe's attacks for 1 round.
"

Good? Awful? Kill myself?

>>49726626
>Is it really the same though?
Given that canonically, that's what PF warlocks are. Yeah.

I mean really, what is a cleric if not a Warlock with good PR?

>>49726733
You. You and me should talk. I like this Auto idea.

>>49726737
Actually really bad because Advanced Armor Trainings exist. Essentially you are giving me something actually worse than armor training (since armor training raises my max dex, which CAN be equivalent to what you're giving), block me out of advanced armor training, and denying me the other benefits of armor training. I don't really see any circumstances I would take this in.

>>49726737
It sucks. Also I'm pretty sure there's an archetype that does this already.

>start talking about unchained gunslinger
>everyone starts homebrewing gunslinger stuff

This is great, mine has moved far away in flavor from the original gunslinger and now is an engineer/non-magical alchemist. So more cowboy stuff is great! And the revamping rules people are throwing around seem cool I have had an idea for a more cowboy archetype as well, but it's hard to figure out.

>>49726770
What would you suggest as an archetype for fighters to deal with getting hit with significantly more touch attacks

>>49726794
good to know

>>49726801
well i mean i'm the autistic fuck making an entire cowboy fucking setting so

>>49726733
You should be careful about "effective size" to make sure it can stack with augment-weaponry, veils and the like.

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>>49726742
Fair enough
Thanks man

>>49726805
>What would you suggest as an archetype for fighters to deal with getting hit with significantly more touch attacks
Honestly? You don't need an archtype for that. A dex based fighter with cut from the air can handle it.

>>49726805
>well i mean i'm the autistic fuck making an entire cowboy fucking setting so
I love weird west, so there is that.

>>49726832
Alright.

I feel bad about how hosed STR is getting in my setting, but maybe i can do something for it.

>>49726844

Nah, fuck STR, who the hell would want to play a roused out jock when they can be a wizard or gunman?

>>49726626
>>49726504
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5HkyGRtGZy3SWVhdWFBWERWWjg

A pathfinder conversion of the warlock by a 3pp writer /pfg/ likes a lot. Currently half-done (only playable to level 10, only 1 pact option) but it's shaping up very well and will have the first full version released sometime this month.

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>>49726504
I mean, Forrest's working on a PF Warlock right now.

>>49726750
Alrighty.

I'll get back into my docs, tidy things up and post 'em once I get home from work.

>>49726814
I'll keep it in mind.

>>49726844
>I feel bad about how hosed STR is getting in my setting, but maybe i can do something for it.
Why do you believe this? Once strength no longer does the most damage it loses all relevancy as it has no derived statistics besides carrying capacity. It and Charisma are the weakest stats (charisma is stronger because more derived relevant skills and it is a primary casting stat for many classes).

>>49726884
Charisma had the advantage of a TON of feat support in 3.5e but in Pathfinder it's basically just Noble Scion.

>>49726866
This is a really terrible attitude to take when designing a game though, or working with a game with design already in place.

>>49726896
It has class feature support as well, like being a paladin or oracle allows it to work with a lot of things. Strength has almost nothing in that regard.

>>49726884
>>49726866
Dex to damage will be more prevalent with firearms, and having high dex will be more important because touch AC is being hit a lot more.

So strength needs some love, somewhere, somehow. I'm not sure what it will be yet, because Melee combat will still be viable for some classes but... I don't know i don't want to make it worthless and super dumpable.

>>49726917
All I can even think of is Brutal Slayer, and iirc they got a LOT of slack for publishing a str-to-AC class. Yay for 3pp!

>make deed that gives gunslinger scent
I don't know this seems like a dumb idea.

The deed in question:

(T) Scent Round (Ex):
Active: The Gunslinger fires a round packed full of potent scented oils. When it strikes the enemy he is unable to hide his scent easily, decreasing the check to track him to a DC5, the scent oil remains active for a number of hours equal to the gunslinger’s level, and can not be washed off by normal means.
Passive: The Gunslinger receives a +2 bonus to track creatures by scent, this increases to +4 at 5th level and +6 at 9th level. At 13th level the gunslinger gains the Scent special ability.

>>49726935

And then Forrest insisted str-based classes were too strong in PoW and published revisions that were embraced by other DMs!

Anyone able to help me out with a Rogue build? No idea what rogue talents to get.

My rogue's basically gonna be based on charging people and dealing sneak damage, using the scout archetype. I have no idea what rogue talents to pick.

What's better? Slow Reflexes or Fast Getaway?

Any other suggestions for this type of build? Really no clue what rogue talents to take.

>>49726979
shut up Steve.

>>49726932
>Let Strength be used for intimidate
>Combine Climb and Swim into Athletics, and let it also be used for jump distance, weightlifting, and other feats of general strongness
>Allow players to use bruteforce solutions of smashing barriers or locked doors away
>Let strength reduce ACP and ignore armor restriction on speed
>Remember that 2-handed weapon strength builds still do the most damage

It's a start.

>>49726932
Making shields apply to touch AC but not flat footed
>>49726973
I'd say just make the scent rounds a type of ammo instead of a deed if you want them in your game.Really though, just don't use them.

>>49727020
Oooh. I find that interesting.

>>49726932

Again, fuck strength, it got enough love with Path of War and it doesn't need love here. The world in a Western setting has moved on from needing strength in combat, trying to shoehorn it in to appease anyone who bitches they can't cheese their way to victory is doing the work an injustice.

>>49727020
>I'd say just make the scent rounds a type of ammo instead of a deed if you want them in your game.Really though, just don't use them.
A lot of the deeds are special rounds now actually. The trick shots that do stuff like Entangle, Confusion, Curse, Dazzle, and Blind are special rounds.

>>49726979
I'm pretty sure boost full attack archers are just as broken. And weapon finesse/deadly agility builds, bar the slight feat tax...

>>49727048
Thats just bad design dumping a stat entirely

giving it a little love and allowing brutish characters to fight can be a big deal

I think giving a little love to Thrown weapons like Tomahawks could help a lot.

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>>49727066
That's weird as fuck to me, but whatever works for your game I suppose
Here's a neato gun.

>>49727096
Depressed's gunslinger is more of a gadgeteer than a gunmaster

>>49727088
>Thats just bad design dumping a stat entirely

Hint: This is exactly what paizo did to charisma
On its own, it does nothing besides charisma skills, and literally every charisma skill has some 1pp way of being substituted by intelligence. Half of them can also be substituted by wisdom.

>>49727107
Yes, this.

Half his class features of fancy stuff to do with guns, the other half is mechanical contraptions.

He's a gun using engineering/non-magical alchemist.

>>49727018

Strength to intimidate is a feat.

Athletics would still require dexterity, otherwise you'll need to explain how balancing on a ledge uses your muscles. Besides, the rest of what you said is cheap parlor tricks; when the hell is a player *ever* going to need to weightlift or display strongness?

That's a DM ruling and one sunder already covers.

Reducing ACP and that pesky -10 to speed sounds useful up until you realize it's, at the absolute best, simply elevating strength to being equal to a lightly armored dex-focus.

That needs to be fixed, and using a greatsword around repeater rifles just sounds silly. The guns will be doing more consistent damage anyway.

>>49726994
Play literally anything else other than a rogue.

>>49727120
>paizo did it so homebrewers should be just as terrible as Paizo

????

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>>49727120
Sorcerers, Paladins, Oracles, Shamans (Although I think they're Wisdom actually) Clerics and Bards all need Charisma though.
>>49727140
Make pic related a unique weapon, with a name related to Australia somehow

>>49727120
Except you're forgetting all the class feature support for charisma. Paladin & Oracle are the biggest names in this, but there are others like Warpriest's Champion of the Faith smite and Swashbuckler's Charmed Life.

>>49727088

Bad game design? Anon please, charisma and intelligence have been niche attributes for years, but the moment someone tries to shove strength into that box you're saying no way Jose?

Strength is a dumb stat that's only needed by the throwaway meatheads of a party, let it die in this world of gunsmoke.

>>49726879
Psionic version when?

>>49727141
They were all suggestions for DM rulings senpai

Making strength useful is going to come in lots of tiny neat bits and pieces, so strength players have /options/.
There is not going to be any one big change that lets strength suddenly be useful.
Unless you abstract Strength into a 'Destructive Power' stat and make that the damage stat for all weapons

>>49727185
Strength is dumb until you're in a bar getting your head beat into pulp and despite the fact that you've shot the guy like 5 times HE JUST WON'T GO DOWN.

>>49727177
So there is an alchemical item called Shrieking Paste. I am considering making a deed that gives you a round that explodes into shrieking paste. This basically means where ever the guy is gonna go you hear constant high pitched screaming coming from him.

Would you think they has any practical application?

The passive side of it I am thinking of improving hearing based perception then at high level giving short range blindsense (like 10-15ft, enough to know where an invisible person is trying to get near you).

>>49727206
>>49727141

Oh my god just consider how strength can be used with guns.

You know what's a big determinant against using powerful, high caliber rifles? Recoil and weight. You know what fixes that? Having arms. There should be some guns that have a strength prerequisite, or high-caliber rounds that get a bonus when used by someone strong.

Or hell, make bullet-proof armor and force a strength prerequisite to using it.

Watch a Spaghetti Western, look at how the big tough freaks with tree trunk arms are used.

>>49727218
>tfw cut from the air as strength based fighter
>tfw have enough strength for just a few AoOs
>tfw for some ungodly reason chose to be an unarmed fighter
>tfw grabbing his bullets out of the air as he fires on me
I can't stop being stupid, help.

>>49727218

>Strength gives DR against bullets

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>>49727275
Does it not?

>>49727206
While that's not bad in and of itself (common in some other systems like some of the FF tabletops) it doesn't really fit the D&D setup, and is particularly inappropriate if the other stats aren't doing the same thing.

You'd have to do a full switch. Again, not bad but no longer pathfinder.

>Destructive Capability (covers aim and damage, including stat bonuses to spell damage when they get it)
>Defensive and Reflexive Capability (covers AC/Avoidance/Initiative)
>Resilience Capability (covers HP and saves)
>Logistics Capability (covers spell and ability 'per-day' maximums as well as skills)
>Strategic Capability (covers stealth and overcoming resiliences in DCs)
>Social Capability (yeah)

stat bonuses to skills would follow those as usual.

>>49727256

Bullet proof armor should not provide AC against guns, it should provide DR since the rounds are hitting, but some bore through while others do not.

Combine this with >>49727275 and you could play a very, very angry, heavily armored badass with a longaxe taking rounds to the face as they move into battle.

>>49727269
Sounds like the best build ever desu.

>>49727256
>STRENGTH IS DUMB weebs drop all their strength

>Right up until Dirk Hardpec comes around the corner somehow holding a Gatling-gun one-handed and starting to CRANK THAT SHIT

>>49727350
Convert its rating to nonlethal, rather.

Anyone who's been hit while wearing it will understand. It can bruise quite a bit, but bruises are so much better than watching your intestines bleed out your back

>>49727354
Any western setting is fucked in the ass by a dex based fighter with Cut from the Air. Hell it could even be a fucking Trench Fighter so he also has a gun.

Pistol in one hand, empty hand in the other. He uses one hand to grab bullets the other he fires.

Personally I think it'd be better as a natural attack mutation warrior because he actually does proper damage. A Dex based mutation warrior with Bite/Claw/Claw/Gore (VMC barbarian for fiend totem).

So the western is fucked by a mutant slightly fiendish freak who just smacks your bullets out of the air.

>>49727368
>not using Prodigious TWF and Stupendous Strength to dual wield gatling guns

>>49727401
You still need a hand to crank them. They're oldschool.

So.

>>49727399
You say this like its a bad thing.

>>49727415
i mean, yeah. But you can probably find a way around that.

>>49727269
>Attacks of Opportunity based on STR and not DEX

how do you do that?

>>49727429
get an alchemist to give you some tiny arms to crank it with.

>>49727415
>You say this like its a bad thing.
It gets even worse at high level if he is packing scrolls of elemental body IV. He turns into a ball of living fire.

18+4(goblin)+6(belt)+8(mutagen)+4(dex rage)+5(degenerate wishes)+6(payed for that simulacrum)+6(fire elemental) = 57

That's 23 blocked shots a round that he just smacks out of the air with his big fire hands.

>>49727459
Thats fantastic.

>>49727439
Meant to type dex there.

>>49727188
For what purpose?
There are already two feats to remove both components from your abilities.

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So folks, about to do the first session of a solo Way of the Wicked campaign. GM made a partner to go with my character, will provide storytime as I go through. I'm playing essentially completely blind.

Our cast and crew thus far:

> Dierdre Greenward [NE Female houri warpath inquisitor (excommunication inquisition)]. The daughter of a nymph's tryst with a member of the elven community she protects, Dierdre lost everything when the loggers came to her home and the soldiers followed, killing her mother and depriving her of her homeland. She was caught with the blood on her hands, murdering the leader of the soldiers in his bed. Now in prison awaiting death, she's about to get an interesting offer. My character. Character theme: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9AjsA-w48Y

> Brian Greenward [NE Male elf myrmidon fighter] Dierdre's half-brother on their father's side, he used arson as a distraction for his sister's murderous intent and injured several people in the process. Likewise awaiting execution, Brian has no reason to live but would rather die fighting than be put down like a dog. NPC. Character theme: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAAEpx_m4Uo

Session's starting now; I'll storytime after.

>trying to write a gun-kata uncahined monk Archetype

I've got

Black Powder and Fists: A Senshi is proficient in the use of Revolvers, and considers them a monk weapon when wielding a revolver with one hand, and her other hand is free

I'm kinda stuck after that. I'm thinking the first thing to do is to completely revamp the list of bonus feats, anyone got a list of good ranged bonus feats?

What is the best Marksman style in the opinion of you all?

Is pathfinder worth getting into? I've mostly played 3.5, 4e, and 5e d&d, and dm'd some 5th. I've heard pathfinder is 3.75, which sounds bitchin.

So I think this may be way too complicated.

Dazzling Flare (Ex):
Active: The Gunslinger fires a flare directly upwards as a standard action. When it goes off it raises the light level within 200 feet to bright light for 1d4 rounds. When it first bursts into life creatures within 30 feet must make a reflex save equal to 10+½ the gunslinger’s level+ his intelligence modifier. On a failed save they are dazzled for 1d4 rounds. This duration increases to 2d4 rounds at 9th level, and 3d4 rounds at 17th level. If the Gunslinger rolls max on any of his duration dice he may roll them again, adding both values together. He may have a total number of rerolls up to his intelligence modifier (minimum 1). The gunslinger can instead elect to fire the flare at a target at his normal range increment. If it strikes it deals 1d6+1 fire damage per gunslinger level and can catch the target on fire for 1d4 rounds (this increases to 2d4 at 9th level and 3d4 at 17th), each subsequent round it deals your gunslinger level if fire damage to the target. If fired at a target the flare is slightly obscured and only raises the light level within 100ft of where it strikes.
Passive: The gunslinger gains Energy Resistance [Fire] 2, this increases by 2 at 5rd level and every four levels thereafter to a maximum of 10 at 17th level.


Should I just take out the first half with the option to fire it straight up?

>>49727509
>Way of the Wicked
>angry elves
Lots of missed opportunities there. Half-elves are the old nobility, overthrown by current king's grandfather (iirc). I don't really remember what elves do there, but they most certainly are not hugging trees.
Also there are only two regions with lots of wild woods - north with angry bugbears where humans don't go because cold and bugbears, and west where humans don't go because tribes and beasts that can eat most island's residents, including dragons, for breakfast.

Name one reason, fluff or crunch, why Arcanist needed to be its own class.

>>49727639
Its basically the same game as 3.5 a few fixes but its own problems.

if you like 3.5 then you should play PF, because i think even with Paizo being retarded, there's enough good 3pp content to make it good.

>>49727682
So that the Wizard wouldn't be the best class anymore.

>>49727682
Because Arcane Exploits are pretty cool.

>>49727682
Name one reason in fluff or crunch why any of the hybrid classes needed to exist.
Or Samurai or Caviler, or Monk, or Ninja for that matter.

>>49727698

Wizard being second fiddle to Arcanist is like the white man being second to the Jew.

Sure they aren't top dog, but they're still the priviliged class.

>>49727256
This is what im considering for Auto.

Making it sort of parallel to Composite on bows. Dex to hit, but if you want more damage, you need strength to back it up.

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So.

The kingdom building rules in ultimate campaign.

What changes would you make with them?

If you've used them, what were your major problems with how they worked?

>>49727797

Why is that chick so skinny oh my god.

>>49727797
Throw them all out and do it based on roleplay rather then mechanics.
All mechanics do is encourage you to game the system.

>>49727643
Change it to
The Gunslinger fires a flare as a standard action. When it goes off it raises the light level within 200 feet to bright light for 1d4 rounds. When it first bursts into life creatures within 30 feet must make a reflex save equal to 10+ his intelligence modifier. On a failed save they are dazzled for 1d4 rounds. This duration increases to 2d4 rounds at 9th level, and 3d4 rounds at 17th level.The gunslinger can instead elect to fire the flare at a target at his normal range increment.This attack always hits touch AC, even if the notmal attack eould not.If it strikes it deals fire damage and can catch the target on fire for 1d4 damage a round for 1d4 rounds.This damage increases to 2d4 at 9th level and 3d4 at 17th.
>>49727842
She's not that skinny, look at literally anywhere but the waist (she's very obviously wearing a corset).

>>49727842
Because you'd be surprised how hard it is to find a noble looking anime style picture of a ruler that either doesn't have a breast window or other revealing clothes or isn't a loli
No you don't have to find more to prove me wrong I'm sure others exist

>>49727498
Muh flavor.

>>49727872

>Not skinny

Nigga look at those arms and legs.

>>49727883

>He doesn't like his female rulers flaunting their noble breasts

What are you, gay?

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>>49727797
They are very poorly thought and and favor single settlement city states with massive financial industries. There is some 3pp stuff that fixes it. Ultimate Rulership is one such book.

>>49727872
1d4 fire damage a round for being caught on fire is very weak. Also 10+int mod is a very sad save for a class feature ability.

You did organize the order of sentences better however, thank you.

>>49727846
>mfw this post
Are you being serious? Why are you saying that about a rules heavy system already? Though I admit the rules for it are shit.

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>>49727797

>>49727908
She is skinny, but she isn't skeleton tier or anything
>>49727939
It depends on how many other features the class gets really.If one out of 50 is a little weak, its fine, but if their one thing is weak it sucks.Besides this shouldn't be something the players use too often, and they won't be using it for extra damage will they?
Although, you are right about the save, keep the one you have.

>>49727939
Thank you, that's useful to know and I'll look into it.

Do you know any good lists or explanations about the problems with the ultimate campaign kingmaking rules?
Want to make the case to my GM for changes, and while they'll listen, I'll need to say more than 'this is bad just because'.

Ok guys i think I finished my weaponized autism gun-kata monk

"#### New Archetype: Senshi

Black Powder and Fists: A Senshi is proficient in the use of Revolvers, and considers them a monk weapon when wielding a revolver with one hand, and her other hand is Free

Bonus Feats: At 1st level a Senshi Point Black Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, and Empty Quiver Style to their list of Bonus feats. At 6th level she adds Clustered Shots, Empty Quiver Flexibilty, Stabbing Shot, and Snap Shot to the Senshi's list of bonus feats. At 10th Level she adds Empty Quiver Flurry, Improved Snap Shot to her list.
This ability modifies Bonus Feats.

Hardened Will: At 4th level a Senshi's will hardens, giving them a +2 bonus on saving throws against fear and emotion effects

Shot from the Air(Su): When a ranged attack is made against a Senshi or travels in a straight line through a 20ft radius around her, she can shoot the attack out of the air, destroying the projectile so the target takes no damage. As an attack of opportunity, make a ranged attack roll at your highest bonus. If the result is greater than the attack roll total of the ranged attack, the attack is destroyed. You must be aware of the attack and not flat-footed. Unusually massive ranged weapons (such as boulders or ballista bolts) and ranged
attacks generated by spell effects cannot be destroyed by a bullet. If she does, she spends 1 point of Ki

This replaces the Ki power gained at 6th level.

Death Blossom(Su): A Senshi may spend 4 Ki points from their Ki pool to make a full attack at each enemy within the 1st range increment of his weapon. Apply precision based damage and critical hit damage only once against each enemy for this attack.

This replaces the Ki power gained at 16th level."

This makes sense right guys this isn't totally insane and broken right.