/CofD/ &/wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness

>>49709627
>Are you a fan of WoD, CofD, or both?
>Hardmode: Which games?
Wod
I usually play mage, ascension's my favorite game
But I'm joining a nWoD Mage the Awakening game run by a longtime friend.
I have a Mastigos in the Adamantium Arrow

Why did they call it Space, and not Correspondence?

>>49709627
CofD
Changeling and Werewolf are my fores, but I also dabble into Mage.

I guess I'm just the kind of fuck who enjoys writing the cast of a dysfunction junction.

>Aspel Pastebin posted

Really, this is getting---

>Actual CofD logs in there

Uh. Ok. Carry on, I guess.

>>49709627
the funniest thing is that this picture has been the easiest one to find. I attribute it to good Font choice and nice use of colors.

>Question
>Are you a fan of WoD, CofD, or both?
>Hardmode: Which games?

Hardmode:

~Favorites~
Promethean
Mage(2e bumped this up from mid Tier to here)
Changeling

~Mid Tier~
Vampire
Beast
Mortal
Werewolf

~Never really played Tier~
Spooky Ghost
Mummy
Demon
Hunter

Surprisingly, I found ST'ing Mage 1e easier then Beast. Like holy crap is Beast hard on its ST.

>>49710776
>Surprisingly, I found ST'ing Mage 1e easier then Beast. Like holy crap is Beast hard on its ST.
how so?

>>49710805

Not them, but there's nothing for a Beast to really do besides pursue their Hungers, swat away whatever Hero the ST fiats into being, and eventually hit an endgame. The idea is that you're supposed to explore the weirder aspects of the World of the Chronicles of Darkness, but there's no support for that whatsoever.

Beasts also have a very loose, local power structure that only really determines a Lair's wallpaper. They apparently go to war with each other, but reasons why are vague at best. The book also makes it clear that Beasts aren't common, though they're not Promethean rare.

Beast's ideal playstyle is very clearly "one player is a Beast in another splat's Chronicle, and Heroes are added to the splat's rogues gallery because of it". But then there's another problem: because Beasts can just feed using the way other monsters scare people, any kind of tension in feeding is gone. Ultimately you're just there to buff your friends and occasionally be an asshole at them for not being monstrous enough.

There's not a whole lot the future books in the line can do about it, too. We might get some new antagonists, but that's about it.

Because of that, any ST who wants to run Beast has to fill in every single one of its blanks, some blanks that the core should have filled in the first place.

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>Are you a fan of WoD, CofD, or both?
Both.

Hardmode: Which games?
MtAs and MtAw.

>>49709627
WoD. The mechanical aspect of the game is clunkier and I freely admit that but it's more simulationist while CofD is more gamey and I'm allergic to Rules with a family focus.

Additionally, the lore is better researched, it feels like they made the game to represent the world and not the other way around.

Mage (setting is SO MUCH more awesome than CofD)

Vampire

Werewolf

Changeling

Wraith

Later games.

How can you think about ascention setting as good? Its fucking cargocultism instead of occultism, i constatly get a feeling that people who wrote this didnt actually research subject and just grab some names and shove them around and then grab some more. Like doing drugs and dancing is different from "shamanistic culture"?. Hermetics fighting technology? How does this fucking makes sence other than "hey i need a name for wizard-wizard organization, i google it up for 5 minutes and no second more"

>>49710805
dealing with all the crossover stuff.

If you think its hard to keep track of all the things a mage can do, try ten. Then try 10 were each of the bastards has a book dedicated to all the special things they can do and for the love of god never forget a page reference. If your ever drunk enough to think you want to run beast here is some advice.

Limit the splats. Just because it is crossover doesn't mean you need 3-4 splats. Try a mage - Kindred war or something and limit this shit. Don't let one asshole be the only member of this non beast splat while everyone else is either beast or a approved splat. When That Guy asks to be a mage in your werewolf/Promethean crossover, tell him no.

Keep the population small. Try and keep it personal. This might be hard to understand but beasts work best when tagging along or attacking mortal problems. If beasts sit in the center of the story try and make sure the story is about their characters and their struggles.

Understand Beasts Morality. Beasts don't give a crap about murder, unless it is kin or potential kin. They care about their buddies and their tummies and little else. When gorged beasts avoid conflict with supernatural creatures, when ravenous they are stuck chasing food and little else(this is also when beasts are most likely to kill people feeding). Keep them away from being Sated if at all possible, as it is only good when the Hero is RIGHT THERE and doesn't add much.

beasts are all about the Local, personal problems. They make a lot of their problems themselves and their is always a hero on their trail. Its hard to hold on to the ones you care about when you torture people to stay alive and keep the monster inside from doing it for you.

So TL;DR Limit the number of splats, keep it personal and understand beasts have a strange, selfish morality. Keep things personal, local and messy.

>>49711376
>How does this fucking makes sence other than "hey i need a name for wizard-wizard organization, i google it up for 5 minutes and no second more"
that seems like how you made your post
it's based on chaos magic
look it up,you twat

>>49710619
What?
It's just my smut that someone posted because people are too obsessed over me.
I think there's like one actual CofD log. Unless you count ghoul castration smut.

>>49711210
>CofD is more gamey and I'm allergic to Rules with a family focus.
wut.
>Additionally, the lore is better researched, it feels like they made the game to represent the world and not the other way around.
wut
Please give me a example of well researched WoD lore.

>>49711645
You can just say "here is magic system that share elements with ascension, so it uses this system" becouse ascention have elements from fucking dosens of systems and believes. Dont get me wrong im okay with this. Up to the point where autors actually know what they doing and posses some knowledge beyond wiki page, or in the end it will become bloody mess, and ascention IS a bloody mess. You dont put cherries in hotdog just becouse cherries is also a food.

>>49711748
wiki/google didn't even exist when ascension was written

>>49707982
>A vampire with 1 dot of Celerity does too.
Actually does not. He gets only Celerity in dots Defense. To use his full defense he would have to have Quicken Sight devotion, which has as a requirement not only Celerity, but also Auspex and must be fueled with 1 vitae every turn. This coupled with interrupt limit makes Celerity much worse than it used to be.

>>49709627
>Are you a fan of WoD, CofD, or both?
CofD, I don't really know much about WoD except VtM:B, which was great
>Hardmode: Which games?
Vampire, Mage, Changeling (that one only in 1e, not sure from preview about 2e)

>>49711865
Google is just "finding stuff on the internet", assame as "hermetically sealed" didnt mean secret society of medieval alchemist sea mammals.

>>49711746

I figured that you were being you and starting to host your game logs in the same space as your cybersex logs. Clearly I got lucky and clicked on the one CofD log.

>>49709627
Why did you put Aspel's pastebin in the OP, i mean it has some seriously fucked up shit in there.

>>49711376
That's actually par for the course with the Traditions. Of the nine, only 4 can be said to be cohesive organizations with an institutional structure (Akashic Brotherhood, Order of Hermes, Sons of Ether and The Virtual Adepts... Barely). The other five are disparate confederations of mages who share a broad "type" (Verbena = witches, Euthanatoi = Psychopomp, Etcetera) because they come from practices and ethnic groups that are entirely too small to support a worldwide conspiracy. Additionally, they were lumped together by those from the more cohesive Traditions. The Ahl-i-Batin even left because they felt slighted by this treatment.

As for cargo cultism or whatever, the developers were always up front about the fact that they changed what they saw fit to change. I'm fine with that. I didn't buy the game because I was looking for a graduate level anthropology course.

>>49711746
Fucking autocorrect. I meant gamist. Ascension is actually about something and dressed up in awesome nineties conspiracy lore and urban legends.

As for research? Those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. At least the factions correspond to actual practices. It is, by default, better researched.

Oh, and go fuck yourself Aspel. How are you not in jail on rape charges right now?

>>49709627
>some actual plays from one of our posters

>tfw you write down everything that happened to the group after the session is over as a story but can never crosspost it because it's in Russian and you have no energy or time to translate the whole thing to English

a-at least I contributed by making that portraits gallery

>>49713035

>Gamist

Wasn't WoD's ruleset specifically the one that set off GNS theory with, "WoD pretends to be a narrativist RPG but is actually pretty simulationist?"

I mean, all GNS theory makes me want to grind me teeth but I think I have the history right there.

>>49712909

I assume it's because they think they can shame them out of the thread. This is folly, someone so dedicated to wrapping everything about them into one internet identity is truly the immovable object.

>>49713059

It's a good gallery. You should be proud!

>>49713199
Thank anon, good to hear. I know I haven't updated it in months, but haven't had the time to get that many pics due to work. Only have something like 20 not yet uploaded ones. Shame Minus died though, I liked the layout much more than Imgur. Winder what even happened to them

>>49711934
Which one did you click? The one about the Underworld Mystery Tour is the only one I can think of.
And no. Like I sai-- >>49712909 oh for the love of fuck, am I going to have to change my Pastebin?

>>49713169
I'm not "dedicated to wrapping everything about me into one internet identity". But it is folly.

>>49711210
>Additionally, the lore is better researched, it feels like they made the game to represent the world and not the other way around.
Stop memeing, Shane. There's nothing more gamey or less gamey about oWoD or nWoD
Also
>Better researched
>The one with World of Darkness: Gypsies and the Year of Orientalism where Asian people literally have completely different natures and souls from the rest of humanity

>>49711892
Huh, on further inspection you are correct. I could have sworn Vamps got full defense on ranged attacks they were aware of, and celerity dots on ones they were not aware of.

>>49713390
>oh for the love of fuck, am I going to have to change my Pastebin?
Not linking your weird fucked up smut stuff under the same name you use for major online communities you actually care about would be wise, yeah.

>>49713035
>At least the factions correspond to actual practices.
No they don't
>It is, by default, better researched.
I'm pretty sure "use the names and then get all the details wrong" is WORSE research than "loosely base it on real-world philosophies and then make everything up while not pretending it corresponds to actual real-world beliefs".

Not to mention CofD puts research work into things like actual real-world places and histories. They also actually tap people who live there before they write about a place or a culture now.

Hell, isn't Dave Brookshaw literally a former archaeologist?

>>49713035
>I meant gamist
It's not.
>As for research? Those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. At least the factions correspond to actual practices. It is, by default, better researched.
No they don't. Give me an example.
In what way is Ascension more "about something".
What research. What practices. You mean the theme park magic of the Traditions?
>Oh, and go fuck yourself Aspel. How are you not in jail on rape charges right now?
By not raping anyone.

>>49713590
Who's Shane?

>>49713600
Eh. I don't actually care. I was actually given the advice that hiding your shit rarely works and just makes it worse. Only time you should do it is if you wanna do a Richard Bachmann thing or you write children's books. It's less that I'm panicking and "oh no, my dark secret is revealed!" and more that people obsessing over me like this makes me uncomfortable.

>>49709627
>Are you a fan of WoD, CofD, or both?
On the whole, I think WoD is a steaming pile of hot garbage. Though mostly that can be laid at the feet of its metaplot, 90s aesthetic, and fascination with uber-powerful characters. And the fans that those elements attract.

CofD is better, but has its own host of problems. Mostly relating to crossover bullshit and people bitching about power imbalance.
That being said, I'm a major fan of Mage, Changeling (less so 2e), Promethean, and Geist.
Requiem has a much better societal dynamic than Masquerade ever had, and while I've never played it Forsaken looks a thousand times better than Apocalypse.
I haven't any experience with it, but I also have a hankering for trying out Demon.
Mummy is the red-headed stepchild. It's there, but I Try and ignore it.
Beast should have been taken out back and shot.

>>49713390

>oh for the love of fuck, am I going to have to change my Pastebin?

I mean, I'm surprised you didn't do that once people figured out that you really like to have cybersex. This was kind of inevitable, really.

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>>49713761
Half the current Onyx Path writers really like to have cybersex. Whatever I change it to, they'll just find out if I post it to /erpg/, so it's not like it matters. It's less that my name is connected and more that I've got people putting in all this effort to annoy me. Despite what people seem to think, I *don't* actually like it when threads derail and become shitposting about me.
>Only PRO users can change their username. Please upgrade to a PRO account first, then come back to this page.
pic related

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>>49709627
>Are you a fan of WoD, CofD, or both?
CofD, as a mechanical system, is superior. Obviously there are problems, some more significant than others, but on the whole it's workable. In terms of fluff, CofD has some pretty lackluster bits, but being a useful toolbox to plop into whatever desired setting is also a great boon to those who don't want to be shackled into someone else's (terrible) ideas.

WoD, conversely, is really a product of its time. The metaplot, while being potentially interesting, is, at the end of the day, suffocating, as is the wide swath of the worst DMPCs imaginable.

>>49713833

>Half the current Onyx Path writers really like to have cybersex.

That's a pretty bold claim to make. Proof?

>>49714065
Nope, posting log without explicit permission of all the participants is bad sport.

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Six years, six years I've been looking at the setting and I've yet to play a single game

>>49713833
Wow, farmers should really invest more in the internet.
Because its such a great source of Bullshit.

Could changelings have been genderbent?

>>49714082

Fair enough.

/soc/'s cybersex thread confirmed for secret Onyx Path writer retreat.

>>49714333
Sure.
Some come back 95% porcalean, made of wood, or fused with some Frankenstein style lighting rod apparatus.

Fucking with their plumbing is a piece of cake for Arcadia.

>>49714099

Are your friends not interested in the setting? Why not run a game with them?

>>49714065
I know some of them from Wanton Wicked.

>>49714333
>>49714387
Yes. For some reason Alice in Wonderland genderbent Changelings are pretty common.
My changeling is a transman. I mean, he was a transman before he went in, but now he has a boyish male physique (but still has a pussy).

While most characters are still going to look at least similar to their original appearance, people you know may not even recognize you. Even beyond the changes to your mien, your Mask could have been stretched out, squashed down, scratched up, aged, given youth... You could go in a black haired manlet and come out a six foot tall woman with brilliant scarlet hair. Well. Not quite *that* much of a change.

>The Gentry can transform changelings into an almost infinite variety of forms, but even their reality-warping powers have limits. Although they can assume any possible form in Arcadia, when changelings enter the Hedge, return to the mortal world or even journey to a different realm controlled by another of the Gentry, they revert to a roughly humanoid form. The Gentry can permanently transform someone into a humanoid plant or even into a living statue made of solid ruby and they can make a changeling somewhat larger or smaller than normal, but they cannot permanently transform a human into a centipede or even a centaur. All transformations into radically non-human forms are inherently unstable and if the changeling escapes from Arcadia or leaves the portion of Arcadia controlled by their Keeper, their natural humanoid form reasserts itself.

Or, I don't know, maybe it could.

>>49714707
>For some reason Alice in Wonderland genderbent Changelings are pretty common.
Funny, because I've never seen one.
I mean, most people I know have mostly kept to a certain interesting theme like "Chimny Sweet Soot Elemental", "Packhorse Beast", or "Chessmaster Wizened" rather than "my Durance was a sex change".

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>>49714099
Same, been looking at it on and off with a false start or two. I'm trying to get a game together with a few online friends now, who've also never played it.

except I've never played a TTRPG period, let alone GM'd one

>>49714426
Nope, not a chance of that, few friends and they're not interested in it.

>>49711096

Ascension to play, awakening to DM.

Ascension is great but many rules are up in the air and is a nightmare to run.

Awakening is easier to run but its fanbase is full of pretensious twats who wants to bore you to death with matrix ripoffs, symbolism wankery and astral bullshit

>>49711376

Because hermetism is recognized pop culture wise.

I can see a newly awakened mage buying into any of the tradition way more than buying in disney atlantis.

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>>49709627
>register on the onyx path forums
>verification is fucked up and after two weeks still no response from the staff asking for help
>posting is possible in a limited capacity so I just start browsing threads
>can't even remember what thread it was, but a poster said he felt "gypped" about something
>some tranny furry immediately shows up and starts bitching at him for using a racist slur
>tranny furry's name seems familiar
>look him up in the 4plebs archives
>he's a tripfag
What kind of rabbit hole did I just fall into.

>>49713596
Nope. Vamps gotta buy a Devotion and spend one BP per turn. Unchained get the Plasma Conduits Propulsion ability, werewolves get it just for being in Dalu, Gauru, or Urshul, and mages just have to pick up Time 2.

>>49714751
We get it, you think ~SJWs~ just make everything about gender and somethingsomething special snowflake blahblah.

But if you think "Chimney Sweep Soot Elemental" is more 'interesting' than "genderbent Alice in Wonderland filled with a thousand deaths at the hands of the Red Queen's nonsensical trials", that's on you. All the transgender characters I've seen in Changeling have been a lot more interesting than others. Especially since they came out of Arcadia with a radically different body and were unsure of how to feel about being a pretty girl. Lots of drama comes from that. A lot more than "I was a chimney sweep and now I'm made of soot".

>>49714865
Grow the fuck up.

>>49709627
>Are you a fan of...?
Both. I really like both pretty equally, though I'm a difficult creature to change, so I haven't done much of anything with 2e.

>Hardmode
I llike both versions of Vampire equally.
I prefer Forsaken over Apocalypse
I like both versions of Mage equally (that is to say, not a lot at all)
Lost I find a more interesting game than Dreaming (but I've had bad experiences with games that turned into Changeling: the Child Porn)

>>49710412
Because they wanted to distance it from Ascension a bit? It's still exactly the same damn thing.

>>49713646
>Not to mention CofD puts research work into things like actual real-world places and histories. They also actually tap people who live there before they write about a place or a culture now.

I call bullshit on that, their write up for argentina in werewolf was that the balehound get converts on all the popular tango clubs in buenos aires which is bullshit on so many levels.

>>49714944
So, I take it you stopped wearing your name and trip when too many people started filtering you? Or are you just an asskisser hoping to get pozzed by his "feminine penis"?

>>49714944
>somethingsomething special snowflake blahblah
You can only judge based on what you know.
And all you mentioned was gender and sex.
Things I generally consider to be secondary or tertiary in a character.

>>49714944
I just got back from vacation, can we NOT argue about people's fucking plumbing and if genderbent is an interesting RP (it's a fucking YMMV topic, stop arguing), and talk about something worthwhile here in the WoD thead, /wod/bros?

I'll start.

The next two LARP games I'm running are going to be quite interesting.

Next game is 'tea time with the Elder Tremere' (N)PC, who will be allowing people to ask questions about the Camarilla, its formation, and other topics from someone who was there.

The following game is going to be a Halloween Ball hosted by the Tremere Regent, but it's in actuality a meta event game: the Tremere's hands are forced on the 'become human/become mage or become goo' ritual, due to Saulot waking up in Tremere's body and pushing up their timetable irreparably. Every Tremere in the world will be hit with this ritual and gets the ability to turn human, attempt to Mage up, or turn to goo if they fail (or stay normal if they successfully countermagic it). We'll have a couple of Tremere PCs and a few Tremere NPCs that have been in the domain beforre, so this should be some intriguing plot. Tremere won't be removed from the game completely, but it will change their rarity and some defaults about them.

>>49714852

>the tradition way more than buying in disney atlantis.

How is it 2016 and people still keep throwing this down?

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>>49714994
You know what they say happens when you assume.

Also, I also said they were Alice in Wonderland themed.
Two independent people made Alice in Wonderland inspired Fairest who were boys made to be Alice.

>>49715066
>can we NOT argue
Pic related

>>49715082
Because they're idiots.

>>49714852
Atlantis is more recognized in pop culture than Hermeticism.
Fuck, my mother knows about Atlantis, but couldn't tell me anything about Hermeticism. Try it with your own parents. Or grandparents!

>>49715090

>pic related

That doesn't mean we have to.

>>49715066

What's your plan if any of your Tremere PCs end up Maging up? Or is that explicitly off the table?

>>49714959
>I call bullshit on that, their write up for argentina in werewolf was that the balehound get converts on all the popular tango clubs in buenos aires which is bullshit on so many levels.
before chronicles
stilll white wolf publishing

>>49715101

Yes and their response is "you mean the disney movie? Or aquaman?"

>>49715125
They become NPCs and leave the game; they're already OOCly aware of the outcome for that potentiality. If they become human they have the chance to be re-embraced (and I know one Brujah who would be all over that), but if not they leave the game; and if they countermagic it they stay a normal Tremere. This won't affect two of them, who are of the Telyav bloodline (the magic can't affect them as there's none of their blood in Ceoris or Fortschritt). Everyone is really cool with it, since we did run a Tremere-specific game where the normal Tremere PCs played their characters, and everyone else played high-ranking NPC Tremere from all over the world, so they know IC what's going on.

>>49715158

>"you mean the disney movie? Or aquaman?"

The Disney movie no one saw or talks about, and the superhero whose collective recollection is only "Was on Superfriends, talks to fish"?

Like, I've never seen anyone who wasn't a goddamn nerd care about or mention Atlantis: The Lost Empire, and I think that movie's pretty neat

>>49714341
>/soc/'s cybersex thread confirmed for secret Onyx Path writer retreat.
didnt the erp threads get moved to /trash/?

>>49715213

Excellent, then everything's gonna go smoothly then. That's exciting, and I can't wait to hear about the fallout!

>>49714944
>All the transgender characters I've seen in Changeling have been a lot more interesting than others. Especially since they came out of Arcadia with a radically different body and were unsure of how to feel about being a pretty girl. Lots of drama comes from that.

See that actually is interesting.

>>49715213
Rather, the PC leaves the game as a Mage NPC. The player can continue playing.

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>>49715158
No it isn't. You know damned well that people know Atlantis is a mythical lost civilization.

Hell, I tried it.
>"Do you know what Atlantis is?"
>"It was a lost city that got taken away by an earthquake"
You know what the question "do you know what Hermeticism is?" got me?
>"I do not".

Nevermind that the Disney movie and Aquaman's homeland only exist because people know that Atlantis is a mythical lost city in pop culture.
Meanwhile, no one knows a fucking thing about Hermeticism. Even IF people only knew of the Disney movie and Aquaman, that would STILL be more.

Also, come on, that's the wrong fucking Atlantis anyway. It's more like Stargate.

>>49715229

Has it? I suppose it was only a matter of time. Then lemme correct that: /trash/'s cybersex thread confirmed for Onyx Path writer's retreat.

>>49714944
>came out of Arcadia with a radically different body and were unsure of how to feel about being a pretty girl
In other words, your fetish character.

>>49715228

So hermetism, shamans, wicca witches stereotypes are less recognized popculture wise than

Magic comes from aquaman kingdom, and its divided between....

Warrior mages that on ww2 decided that nationality/ethnical conflicts didnt matter no more and they would not participate in wars. Bullshit

KGB mages that believe in magic jebus.

Ventrue mages.

An order that call themselves the mysteryum with a straight face

Muh murica democracy magic order.

And they all fit nicely into the t classes archetype. Awakening setting always felt fake and forced with its setting functioning less like people and more plot-devices

Ascension felt more real as its recognized mages as people full of racial tension, elitism, imperialism and just predjudices in general.

>>49715268
>Also, come on, that's the wrong fucking Atlantis anyway. It's more like Stargate.

Stargate doesnt scream mage to me. Its scream crappy sci fi

>>49715268
>Nevermind that the Disney movie and Aquaman's homeland only exist because people know that Atlantis is a mythical lost city in pop culture.
>Meanwhile, no one knows a fucking thing about Hermeticism. Even IF people only knew of the Disney movie and Aquaman, that would STILL be more.

I have never meet person to whom while selling then awakening didnt said the setting sounded retarded when atlantis came out. Maybe to you atlantis sounds more magey (besides water magic) and better with their "all magic traditions and religions are false except this bullshit atlantis myth" premise than ascensions "every religion and practice is technically right". Ymmv

>>49715391

You know, the setting and the game changed a whole lot since the corebook's first printing in 2005. You really ought to take a look at the rest of it, because your arguments honestly come off like you've never paid attention to anything else for almost a decade.

>>49715482

>Maybe to you atlantis sounds more magey (besides water magic) and better with their "all magic traditions and religions are false except this bullshit atlantis myth"

No seriously, you're railing against a decade old corebook, and not the actual game at this point. Not only was it never that and only seemed that way because of how the corebook was written, the second edition core makes it perfectly clear.

>>49715486

Nope i read all the books, the whole fucking line and 2ed.

I like awakening but ascension will always feel more real because not only the backstories of most traditions feel more real than the plot convenience orders but using real world pratices, even just in name, is better than the made up washed up hermetism of awakening.

>>49715523

Are we talking about the setting or the game as a whole?

Because setting wise the game didnt change much in 2nd edition.

Free council is less muh murica democracy and more barebones traditions.

And not all mages believe in atlantis.....thats about it

>>49715295
So? CofD is for fetishes.

>>49715391
You not understanding the game means nothing.

>>49715437
Mage is based on the same kind of weird ancient aliens theosophy bullshit as Stargate.
Also, Spirit Science.

>>49715482
You not understanding the game means no--oh wait, I already said that. Mage is based on late 19th century Theosophy. One of those was the concept of mythical lost civilizations that were advanced and superhuman, but got destroyed due to hubris. You and the people you know being completely fucking stupid and preferring the cartoonish theme park version of real world religious practices doesn't mean anything.

>>49715540
Then you're just an idiot. As with every oWoD thing, the Traditions are fucking stupid, a fetishized parody of whatever they're meant to represent, and the entire setting's internal logic is built on no character being reasonable or competent and going "wait, hold on a second, this is stupid" when confronted with obviously stupid situations like the way Traditions work, or the Ascension War.

>>49715540

>but using real world pratices, even just in name

While I think that "realness" as a quality for these games is silly since both settings have about as much realism and reflection on life as a Saturday Morning Cartoon, to me this only takes me out of it more. Compared to something like GURPS Thaumatugy, it just ends up being cheap.

>>49715597

>So? CofD is for fetishes.

No, no, Aspel, you're thinking of Exalted.

>>49715597
>You not understanding the game means no--oh wait, I already said that. Mage is based on late 19th century Theosophy. One of those was the concept of mythical lost civilizations that were advanced and superhuman, but got destroyed due to hubris.

I understand is based on that, is just incredibly limited and dull that all magic comes from a "better civilization that was awesome and cool but now is gone...feel sad"

>>49715597
>preferring the cartoonish theme park version of real world religious practices doesn't mean anything

Implying that wod is not just that. The confort food of supernatural rpgs. But seriously if they are cartonish to you fine. I use their rl roots to do my own research and expand on the traditions. Went to speak to wiccan, umbanda priest and dove into hermetism something you cant really do with the made up orders

>>49715635

Is gurps thaumaturgy compatible with 4E?

>>49715597
>the entire setting's internal logic is built on no character being reasonable or competent and going "wait, hold on a second, this is stupid" when confronted with obviously stupid situations

Because the real world is full of reasonable and competent people and said people are always in charge. Sure anon, tell me more about your magical realm.

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>>49715652
Exalted doesn't even have a three stage Pregnancy Condition.

>>49715725
>I use their rl roots to do my own research and expand on the traditions. Went to speak to wiccan, umbanda priest and dove into hermetism something you cant really do with the made up orders
I don't really believe you, and even if you did, that doesn't somehow validate the setting. Meanwhile, the Orders are flexible enough that they can contain the Traditions. As I often say: You can do WoD in CofD, but you can't do CofD in WoD.

>>49715770
More reasonable than that.

>>49714065
>That's a pretty bold claim to make. Proof?
he bragged about david hill and his wife getting him kicked off of ww
aspel likes to exaggerate/lie/make stuff up so to him 2 people on the same game he pervs around in is half the writers really liking it

>>49715725
Buy magic doesn't come from Atlantis.
Atlantis is a story or a metaphor for the society that existed before the fall, to which various diamond orders claim spiritual heritage.
The true despair is that whatever the Exarchs are, they don't like sharing, Andy likely set the fucking abyss upon the world to torment mankind and fuck up your magic.

>>49715817
What?
I wasn't kicked off of WanWic. I left, because of cliquishness.

If you don't believe people on MUSHes typefuck, boy, you must be sheltered.

>>49715777
>I don't really believe you, and even if you did, that doesn't somehow validate the setting

Implying that i care.

Of course you cant do cofd in owod. Owod has laser, robots, flying space ship, mages who have obligatory flavor to their magic. Cofd has a babel tower myth rippoff with 5 orders as pc classes. Why would you want to ruin owod anon? What owod ever done to you?

>>49715777
>Exalted doesn't even have a three stage Pregnancy Condition.
>pregnancy
>proof of fetishes
you really need to get out into the real world
just cuz you have no experence with it past your erp doesn't mean its a fetish

>>49715798

So the trees made of pee come before or after the reasonable people took over the world?

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>>49715847
You can indeed do Traditions in nWoD.
You can't do the Orders in oWoD.
You can also do Masquerade's clans in nWoD.
But you can't really do Requiem's clans in oWoD.
Ditto Werewolf.

>>49715848
When sexual reproduction has mechanics, it's a fetish game.
Especially when it's applicable to male characters.

Can I just have happy expectentant mother without the game turning into some fetish?

>>49715910

Requiem clans in owod is easy. Set a game in which clans are meaningless politically.

Owod clans are impossible without rewritting the game. For example there is the whip position in requiem which is completely meaningless on the setting as written as clan is meaninless politically.

Same with werewolf. The garou nation is lacking on 2ed forsaken and in 1st was a schrodinger cat that exist and didnt at the whims of the twat on turn writing each book

>>49715924
no
rosemary's baby?
fetish
nine months?
fetish
knocked up?
fetish
aspel's so far in moms basement he doesn't know what stories are

>>49715910
>You can't do the Orders in oWoD

Actually you can "there is this 4 smallcraft/hollow ones that believe magic comes from dragons in atlantis. Nobody talks to them because they sound like weirdos
. Oh and there is a another order that believes in democracy as the superior system or are the hollow ones depending on the edition"

>>49716109
>ones that believe magic comes from dragons in atlantis

But... The Awakening orders doesn't believe that.

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Running a WtF where nn upstart wolf pack helps a young Thysus Mage through the dangers of the Hisil so that she can make contact with a powerful spirit to bargain with it. Their efforts are being challenged by a myriad of spirits and the Pure.

>>49716145

Remember than in ascension belief matter a lot more than in awakening. You couldbuse the unifying myth of atlantis or the various philosophies from the adamant hand. The guardian magic jeebus. The mysteryum pancriptica. The silver ladder lio, deer and sage. Path of less resistance.

>>49716204
But the dragons in atlantis thing is simply wrong. None of the Awakening orders believe in it.

>>49715959
What are you even talking about?
Do you even read the books you bitch about? Clans arent' meaningless politically, and that's not what I'm talking about.

Also, there is no Garou Nation at all in Forsaken. But you can pretty damned easily do oWoD Tribes in Forsaken.

>>49716109
You're a fucking idiot.

>>49716239

It was the setup 1st up until the vin diesel on the cover book. Now in 2nd was put more emphasis on the allegory part.

But you can port the orders from awakening to ascension one way or the other.

>>49716249

I dont know how to tell you this anom but i think you are autistic.

Requiems clan are meaningless politically, covenant matter on whose dick you suck.

You cant port the owod tribes because lots of the point to them depends on the garou nation. Forsaken and apocalypse are fairly different games with different conflicts to port one another.

>>49716282
>It was the setup 1st up until the vin diesel on the cover book.

No. It wasn't. It was part of their mythology, but they never believed that their magic comes from Atlantis, and they never believed that dragons gave them the magic.

>>49716340

And mythology would be a lot more important in ascension than awakening.

>>49716348
So? That isn't part of their beliefs, it's part of their creation myth.

Give me some jank shit I can pull off with Matter magic. I'm gonna be running a Moros mechanic this Saturday.

>>49716328
I don't know how to tell you this, anon, but you're wrong. Even if you weren't, that has fuck all to do with what I'm saying.

>>49716340
Just give up. He's an idiot who's intent on being misinformed.

>>49716410
I already told you about highly reactive alkali metals.

I appreciate the /k/ommando talking shit about bows in the last thread
>Be warform werewolf
>Not using a .50 BMG machine-gun

>>49716564
We Infinity now?

>>49716595
idk what Infinity is

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>>49716595
Silly anon, they don't get to have HMGs.

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>>49716595
silly anon, dogfaces don't get HMGs

>>49716446
>Even if you weren't, that has fuck all to do with what I'm saying.

You were saying that you can port masquerade shit to requiem and not viceversa like that is some sort of acomplishment/failing from owod

>>49716446
What? I haven't seen anything like that. You mean like sodium? Does sodium really react violently enough with water to cause harm?

>>49716786
Higher ones like Caesium and Rubidium certainly would if you transmuted a glass of water.

>>49716779
Yes, but you seemed to have missed the point and went on about clans being involved in politics.

>>49716798
>Yes, but you seemed to have missed the point and went on about clans being involved in politics

What was your point? That you are too close minded to port stuff from nwod to owod?

>Player wants me to let him spend all his merits at character creation in order to take an alembic representing him being a New Dawn promethean turned vampire

Is being a fucking vampire not special enough?

Has anyone actually played Mummy? I'm kind of curious, but for the life of me, I can't figure out what the hell we would do. Hang out in museums at night? Enjoy the inside of our sarcophogi?

How long do changelings live?

>>49715257
I would hope so!

>>49716952
He wants to be the specialist of snowflakes.

>>49716876
That oWoD's setting and mechanics are much more restrictive, while Chronicles' are intentionally very flexible. By changing very little you can add the Clans from Masquerade to Requiem as Bloodlines. Adding in the Clans from Requiem to Masquerade takes quite a bit more, due to the way the game is set up, particularly (but not exclusively) due to the ridiculously byzantine backstory. Hell, you could add Caine to the nWoD a lot easier than running a Requiem game using Masquerade's rules.

The same is true of almost everything. Tribes can be easily made as Lodges, or you could throw out the existing structure and very easily within Forsaken's framework create new Tribes using the fluff of the Garou Nation.

In Awakening, you can easily make the Traditions as Legacies, factions within the Orders, or just have them replace the Orders outright. You can't, however, really take any of the Orders and make them Traditions. At best you could maybe have them be Hermetics. Your understanding of how Atlantis/The Dragons works notwithstanding. You can't really homebrew a new Tradition without radically altering the setting, of which the entire game is built around (because it's not a toolbox).

>>49716952
He'd lose the Alembic. You don't keep Supernatural Merits. Unless you're of the special Coil that lets you take psychic powers.

>>49717041
A long time. In 2e, they live even longer. And can become more youthful as they age.

>>49717041
As you first get your Wyrd rating, and it increases, your maximum lifespan is modified by 10/20/30/40/50/75/100/200/500 years.

When you reach Wyrd 10, you're effectively immortal. I wouldn't wish Wyrd 10 upon my worst enemy though.

So do we have any info on possible release dates for future stuff?

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>>49717138
It's Clarity 0 that makes Wyrd 10 bad.

Also holy shit, the way to become human.

>>49716952
WoD doesn't let you combine templates because they suck at balancing stuff anyway. If you want to be able to combine templates play GURPS.

>>49717423
How would a vampire transform a Promethean. That shouldn't be possible because the Promie is already dead, has no soul (only a vague proto soul) they would have to wait until the Promie finishes their journey and becomes human to change them. At which point they would lose those merits anyway.

>>49717572
A Redeemed is a Promethean that became human. If you get the best ending and complete all 10 of your Pilgrimage's Refinements, you get to keep one Alembic.

>>49717423
You can combine Mage and Wolf-Blooded actually.

>>49715391
>Warrior mages that on ww2 decided that nationality/ethnical conflicts didnt matter no more and they would not participate in wars. Bullshit
It's bullshit that they realized that sleeper conflicts were less important than keeping their order together?
>>49715725
Magic doesn't come from Atlantis, hell, Atlantis is a MYTH, not a sunken city. Magic comes from truth, that mages now are forced to see. You literally have no idea what you're talking about.

>>49716786
It does, actually. But the other alkali are even better.

>>49717584
Couldn't you throw in ghoul also?

>>49717746
No. We only know about the Mage/Wolf-Blooded option because DaveB said so.

>>49717713
That's the ascension lore I think.

Plus if I recall correctly mage 1e mentioned Atlantis (Breifly) as the home of humanity for a time before the Exarchs became gods, cast everyone else out, ect.

>>49717790
No, the supernal, aka the source of magic, is the literal cosmic, platonic truth. Atlantis isn't a sunken city, it's the term used due to the orders Greek origins.

>>49717766
Ghouls can lose their templates though if they aren't fed for long enough so...they might be able to awaken, but it is probably harder for them.

I had one player go from Ghoul to Mage. He was refunded all XP spent on merits he couldn't keep, and disciplines and recevied the Addicted Condition. He was able to consume vitae for the sole purpose of satisfying his addiction, and he got a small boost to the first spell he casts after consuming vitae.

>>49717837
If he's willing to risk the loss of wisdom he could create perfected blood. I imagine it would function as pure vitae for any vampire.

>>49717837
>he got a small boost to the first spell he casts after consuming vitae
I don't really know why, but cross-pollinating a supernatural resource like that fills me with disgust.

>>49717862
>create perfected blood
As in being able to feed BP 6+?
Probably.
What a fucking waste of mystic power though.

>>49717877
An ancient vampire that owes you a favor is always useful.

Besides high wisdom is for nerds.

>>49717866
He got his choice of +1 to primary spell factor
or +1 die to a casting roll.

He couldn't store and use vitae at will, it was just a little something to help him keep up with the Forsaken MBT who would go garu 3 seconds into a fight and stay that way the whole battle.

>>49717766
Wolf-Blooded stacks with everything.

>>49717790
Atlantis is a conceptual thing, not necessarily a single unified concept. "Magical society that existed before the Sundering" is what Atlantis is. Except that there is no "before" the Sundering, and as such there's no single Atlantis.

>>49717837
You're still a Ghoul, you just lose access to your Disciplines if you're in vitae withdrawal.

>>49717937
That's a bad trade off. He should almost always go for +1 Factor.

>>49717862
I don't recall it being wisdom loss inherently, just associated with things that cause wisdom loss (like bleeding living creatures).

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>>49709627
WoD

First of all, I'm a lorefag.
And WoD's (revised) lore is just awesome.
Yes, it has its faults, but I just love the 80-90's vibe and the whole gothic punk thing.

Secondly, I'm 25+ and WoD is just closer to my generation in every aspect.
I feel that CoD is for the younger players: a more flexible lore, simpler rules, etc.

In my eyes, WoD is a mechanical watch and CoD is the digital one.
And I'm a mechanical watch guy, that's all.
Even if it's too complex and needlessly overdecorated.

Also my first game was a VtM.
We played it for years.
Oh yeah, and the core book was my very first RPG book - I even bought the Storytellers Handbook after a few sessions.

My other favourite is Mage.
Its idea of how magic work is just fantastic.

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>>49718228
>I feel that CoD is for the younger players: a more flexible lore, simpler rules, etc.
>In my eyes, WoD is a mechanical watch and CoD is the digital one.
I feel like these are the kind of dismissive asinine statements that people hate from grognards.

If anything, WoD feels like it's for the younger players, with it's edgy "fuck the man" goth-punk sensibilities.

>>49717123
>In Awakening, you can easily make the Traditions as Legacies, factions within the Orders, or just have them replace the Orders outright. You can't, however, really take any of the Orders and make them Traditions. At best you could maybe have them be Hermetics. Your understanding of how Atlantis/The Dragons works notwithstanding. You can't really homebrew a new Tradition without radically altering the setting, of which the entire game is built around (because it's not a toolbox).

Yes, you can in theory port the trads, clan and/or tribes from OWoD to Nwod but to what end? You loss all the context for them to the point that is no different than the amount of setting change one had to make to change the setting to allow the orders to OWoD.

>>49717713
>It's bullshit that they realized that sleeper conflicts were less important than keeping their order together?

Yes, it is. Orders and religions of all kind break off for less important stuff that war. I sure those post war II french mages were all on boat to get on with the german ones and the jewish one were all peachy. Forgive and forget i am right?

>>49717713
>Magic doesn't come from Atlantis, hell, Atlantis is a MYTH, not a sunken city. Magic comes from truth, that mages now are forced to see. You literally have no idea what you're talking about.

This is kind of true and not. On the myth, there was an island with dragon bones that call sleepers. Sleeper would enter the cave and if they were kwell enough the get magic and see the truth. Remember there wasnt the abyss separating the realms as it is "now". But thats beside the point. My point was that is easy to port the orders to Ascension. They are group of smaller craft with a belief in either atlantis or the "truth" or just adapt them with their various beliefs (the phalanges, magic jebus etc) is no different from porting them the other way around.

>>49718310

I think he is reffering that OWoD is more complex with lots or moving parts and thus more unweildy to run both mechanically and player-option wise.

While CoFD is more straightforward and simpler to run.

>>49713678
>Who's Shane?
Shane is the WWP guy everyone in that onyx path thread was bitching about.

>>49716952
Why would you want to play a Promethean who finally got to become a normal mortal, only to get turned into a bloodsucking parasite who the world (rightfully, this time) reviles?

That's completely missing the point of Promethean.

>>49718228
>Secondly, I'm 25+ and WoD is just closer to my generation in every aspect.
>I feel that CoD is for the younger players: a more flexible lore, simpler rules, etc.
I'm 25+ and I think you're full of shit. nWoD would have been coming out right around when you were starting high school. Or did you start playing Vampire: the Masquerade when you were 10 years old?

>>49718228
Thanks for sharing, grandpa

>>49718354
>You loss all the context for them
No, you don't. Because, as I've repeatedly explained, CofD handles changes to the core setting and system much easier. There already are people playing Ascension in Awakening's rules. Not so for the other way around.

>My point was that is easy to port the orders to Ascension. They are group of smaller craft with a belief in either atlantis or the "truth" or just adapt them with their various beliefs (the phalanges, magic jebus etc) is no different from porting them the other way around.
Your understanding of the Orders is lacking, and that's part of the problem here. Homebrewing new Orders--hell, homebrewing a ton of new Orders--is a lot easier than homebrewing an entire Tradition. Especially considering how much of the Ascension setting and system is tied up in the existing Traditions.

>>49718376
That's some pretty stupid logic.

>>49718672
>>49718688

I, too, starting playing WoD games when they were first released when I was starting college. I probably still have my V:tM 1e in storage. Call me "grandpa" if you wish, but all it does is highlight your lack of maturity and ignorance of WW and rpg history as it actually happened.

The old WoD was a product of its times, with an intentional overwhelming 1990's gothic aesthetic. If at around 25 you believe that represents your generation, you're truly an Anon out of time.

The WoD ended because the story and writing were stale and outdated (and the game industry was in dire conditions). The new WoD/CofD was intended to reinvigorate WW without all the baggage and cultural detritus that littered the old game world. It was a gradual endeavor, as can easily be seen how Requiem borrows far more heavily on Masquerade than Forsaken and Awakening do on Apocalypse and Ascension, respectively. The CofD also focused more heavily on personal horror than than the old gonzo, near superhero level of power that characterized the oWoD.

More importantly, without decades of often confusing and inconsistent metaplot that reduced the PC's to secondary actors, the nWOD made it much easier to attract new players.

The popularity of the old WoD now is largely a result of nostalgia by older players like myself and the other Anon, particularly in the USA where CofD was more widely marketed and received. They are also the people who can now afford all the physical "super-deluxe" releases.

If you enjoy the old WoD more than the CofD, that's certainly fine. However, it's ludicrous to claim that a game world and mechanics first designed and implemented in the late 1980's and early 90's by people who then were mostly in their early 20's is more in tune with people who are 25 in 2016 that the CofD made today by many of those same people behind the WoD.

>>49718895

Okay gramps, now take your medicine and go take a nap

>>49718895
>However, it's ludicrous to claim that a game world and mechanics first designed and implemented in the late 1980's and early 90's by people who then were mostly in their early 20's is more in tune with people who are 25 in 2016 that the CofD made today by many of those same people behind the WoD.
I'm just quoting you for emphasis

>>49718969
>Okay gramps

Well, I guess the debate is over. Who needs actual facts and persuasive arguments when you can resort juvenile insults fit for a tween.

I believe you missed the part of my post where I was a fan of the old WoD for nearly as long as you've been alive. I also am a fan of the current CofD. I appreciate both game lines for what they are, and am not so foolish as ignore their faults.

I, unlike you, have the perspective to understand the cultural significance of the WoD (and CofD) when it was released by people who were mostly my peers. I personally witnessed the apex and decline of the WoD (and the rest of the rpg industry).

If you possessed a modicum of this perspective, you would understand why and how the WoD was quite explicitly geared towards people of *my* generation, but of course, can be enjoyed by anyone.

I care not at all if you prefer the WoD or CofD. You are certainly entitled to your tastes and preferences. However, ignoring the history of the WoD and the people who created to force it to fit into such tastes just makes you look like a fool.

Also, get off my lawn...

Now, where did I put my Kindred the Embraced DVDs...

>>49719246
I'm not him, but I can understand the cultural significance of oWoD while also thinking it's garbage. Same as I can appreciate the fact that the early D&D was literally the first of it's kind, but I think that OSR is archaic garbage played by grognards who find some kind of sick pleasure in a grossly ill fitting mechanical framework because it makes them feel intellectually superior.

Does DaveB comment anymore on /wodg/?

Has he indicated when we might see the extra material he promised for Mage 2e like the Legacy and antagonist additions or FAQ?

>>49719283

You are certainly entitled to you opinion, and I agree that the WoD has not aged well in the current environment of more mature rpgs (that might not have flourished in the very different climate and expectations of the 1990's).

However, the very specific issue that was being addressed was whether the WoD was closer in design and setting to the generation of someone 25 today or someone nearly twice that age like myself. While anyone can enjoy games from any period, I believe the answer to that question is nevertheless quite obvious.

>>49719291
Yes. He commented the other day to tell us he comments anonymously. I bet this old fart is Dave.

>>49719337
I definitely agree, Dave. But I'm also under 30, so I have no nostalgia factor for oWoD.

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>>49719337
>>49719283
>You are certainly entitled to you opinion, and I agree that the WoD has not aged well in the current environment of more mature rpgs (that might not have flourished in the very different climate and expectations of the 1990's).

THIS SUBJECTIVELY APPRECIATED MEDIA HAS NOT FARED WELL IN MY SUBJECTIVE OPINION OVER THE PAST TWENTY FIVE YEARS COMPARED OT THIS OTHER SUBJECTIVE MEDIA THAT IS MORE INTUNE WITH THE ZEITGEIST OF THE CURRENT TIMES THAT WILL PROBABLY LAST FOR A YEAR!

People have developed such goddamned calcified opinions on everything on this board the past few years.

>>49719356
>But I'm also under 30, so I have no nostalgia factor for oWoD.

You can like (or not) the WoD for any reason. However, the gameline's setting was no doubt a creature of the 1990's zeitgeist, which is very different than today, and its revival marketing for the anniversary editions, particularly with very expensive ultra-deluxe books, directed toward those same players who first enjoyed it in decades past.

If newer players like yourself also enjoy it, that's great. OPP and the game industry generally can certainly use the sales. However, if you believe the WoD is more culturally significant to twenty-something's today than to people who actually came of age during its release, you're an anachronism (and that's ok - hey you want to buy some slightly used Highlander DVD's...)

>>49719476

The poor state of the rpg industry now compared to the 1990's is an objective fact. There are a myriad of reasons for this, with many, if not most, not really in dispute.

The cultural parallels and influences in the WoD are also obvious and understood, and been discussed extensively over the years by the people who actually wrote and designed the books. Many of these same people are still involved in the rpg or related industries.

Lastly, arguments over the WoD vs. CofD are over a decade old, and hardly new or opinions more calcified now than prior years.

>>49719291
>Does DaveB comment anymore on /wodg/?
>Has he indicated when we might see the extra material he promised for Mage 2e like the Legacy and antagonist additions or FAQ?

Dave still comes around once in a while, although not as often as before M2e was released.

Dave's seems busy with his real life and developing Deviant, and I wouldn't expect the extra Mage content any time soon. I just hope we see Signs of Sorcery before Summer 2017.

Perfect teeth - how

>>49719721
Life 3.
Practice of Perfecting.

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>>49718895
>>49718228
>>49719246
>VtM

>>49714099
>>49714794
roll20? The community is flighty as fuck so it takes a lot of trial and error but I've had at least 3 campaigns that lasted at least 2 years.

>Are you a fan of WoD, CofD, or both?
both are good games, each with their own flaws.

If I had to pick I suppose I would say CofD since I find it easier to run and prefer the more "toolbox" approach to the game lines. Too bad Chronicles has been tainted by Beast.

>>49718228
ma nigga, love the lore of oWoD, don't get why everyone got so butthurt when replying to you

>>49718848

Crafts anon. Is that simple. You can port any magic order to ascension because they can believe their magic comes from whatever the hell they want.

what so difficult to port exactly?

How often do you expect to see non dormant spirit in hisil? Like every building in small city? More rare than humans? Very rare, like one spirit per district/city quater? About the same crowd as people?
I can't wrap my mind around that

>>49718895

I think apocalypse themes kinda became relevant again now the whole "just because you have a good cause doesnt mean you arent an asshole" which is pretty relevant today.

>>49719356
>I definitely agree, Dave. But I'm also under 30, so I have no nostalgia factor for oWoD.

Same here, started with rpgs with NWod, then years later tried owod. Found owod setting better and never looked back.

>>49720832

Do you feel lik giving stats, personality and a voice to each building in a city? That your answer.

>>49720910
I was thinking the same way. If the cars spirits feed on one another then it's possible for small city to have one predatory truck that keeps other car spirits from getting too powerfull and gaining conscioucness by regulary devouring them as they 'sprout' from essence. Is it legit?

>>49720795
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgPwXlTRuHs

>>49717227
OPP doesn't give concrete dates anymore because they can't hit them. And then people go insane.

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>>49718310
>>49718672
>>49718688
>>49720505
>>49718969
>>49719283

"And you will know these last times by the Time of Thin Blood, which will mark role-players that cannot have Fun,
you will know them by the Tasteless, who will come to rule
you will know them by the Wild Ones, who will hunt us even in the strongest thread
you will know them by the awakening of some of the faggest, the CoD will awaken and consume all
you will know these times, for a black hand will rise up and choke all those who oppose it
and those who shitpost will flourish and the players will crowd each to his own, and good stories will be as rare as diamonds
Mark these signs, they are coming! Gehenna will be on earth."

>>49720964
If it can risk exiting its condition for long enough to hunting. Yeah.

>>49720964
yes
but at rank 3 it would start to deligate
no use eating small spirts when it can let them live
and have them offer essence to it so it won't eat

>>49717138
There's a 1-5 dot merit now that adds 1-5 to your effective Wyrd though.

>>49721489
Wait what? This sounds too OP to me. In 1e you had to work for high Wyrd god damn it

>>49721631
Not really. Dying from old age isn't an issue in-game.
The only thing this does is add more old and weird Changelings, which I'm all in favour of.

>>49721631

The merit only adds to effective Wyrd to determine lifespan on the Wyrd chart. Since this is unlikely to actually matter within a chronicle, buying the merit is not only definitely not OP, but arguably a waste of merit dots.

>>49721647
>>49721662
Ah, I failed at reading comprehension, my bad. thought that the merit gives extra dots in Wyrd as well

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>>49721693

You should check-out the most recent rules and character update posted by David Hill a few days ago.

>>49719291
>Does DaveB comment anymore on /wodg/?

He still posts on occasion.

The sneaky bastard also mentioned that he now sometimes posts anonymously.

Next time you think you see some garbage by Aspel, it might really by Dave.

Has DaveB mentioned when we might start to see Deviant spoilers?

It would be great to see something totally new to the CofD (and WOD) that isn't Beast.

>>49721770

I doubt DaveB is going to gush about Princess the Hopeful anytime soon.

>>49721269
What did he mean by this?

>>49721957

DaveB reads Princess the hopeful alone at night in his computer and whispers "notice me sempai"

>>49722013

False, he would never be untrue to the majesty and power of the Komodo Dragon.

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>>49721957

Maybe not, but if we ever see an anonymous homebrew for Komodo: The Dragoning, I know who'll be at the top of the suspect list.

>>49717572
Vampires don't have souls anyway though?

You might be able to create a Promethean out of vampire bits though. Or maybe a Centimani could attempt to go on a journey to become a vampire.

I think a much more reasonable thing would be a ghoul alchemist who hunt werewolfs, prometheans, vampires, changelings, etc... for use in magical experiments.

>>49713169
That's perspective. It has a narrativist focus but simulationist mechanics and that's a product of it's times. Narrativist mechanics were in their infancy with stuff like Amber and barely on the scene. It's like that because there was a much narrower idea of what RPG mechanics were.

>>49713590
I was speaking about Mage but because you want to bring in other game lines, here goes. Despite regrettable mis-steps like what you mentioned, for every WoD: Gypsies, there are multiple books such as Dead Magic I and II, Charnel Houses of Europe: The Shoah and Transylvania by Night.

As for the "Asian people have different souls!" thing? Not borne out in the lore. KotE borrowed bits from many other game lines and this is from Ascension. They came out of the Asian Hells because those hells are believed in by the cultures of the area and those beliefs are largely localized to SE Asia. It's a regional phenomenon, nothing more.

>>49713646
>"loosely base it on real-world philosophies and then make everything up while not pretending it corresponds to actual real-world beliefs".

That's... actually exactly what they did and they were always up front about that and they said so across multiple subjects and suggested reading pages. You're enititled to your own opinion, not your own facts.

>They also actually tap people who live there before they write about a place or a culture now.

This is meaningless to me.

>>49713678
Ascension is quite literally about the democratization of reality and the effort to win that conflict when the majority of humanity doesn't even realize that they're voting. Awakening is just a love-letter to Theosophy with no central conflict.

And fuck off, Aspel.

>>49714707

This is the least interesting part of a character to focus on. My last vampire character has guilt issues over the car crash that killed his parents, thus causing him to become a police officer.

>>49722885
>vampire police officer?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPhIEG3JYtg

>>49714944
>We get it, you think ~SJWs~ just make everything about gender and somethingsomething special snowflake blahblah.

That's kind of because you guys do and you have been.

>Grow the fuck up.
You first, castration porn afficionado.

>>49715597
>Fetishized

Not really. The traditions don't work like that and they never have. It's possible to have dreamspeakers/shamans from Norse, Shinto, Native-American and voudoun backgrounds. Conversely, a norse sorceror, depending on paradigmatic focus, can find himself in the Dreamspeakers, Verbena, Euthanatoi or House Bjornaer of the Order of Hermes. Your failure to understand how the traditions are structured does not constitute fetishization.

>>49722939
Former police officer.

>>49722885

>Awakening is just a love-letter to Theosophy with no central conflict.

I wouldn't go that far. There's absolutely a conflict between the Pentacle and the Seers. It's not as completely hostile as the Ascension War, but it's certainly there. It just happens to focus more on personal hubris than a larger picture "freedom vs security" theme.

It really does come down to Ascension's Mages really being the best and brightest of humanity torn apart by their unassailable high ideals and Awakening's Mages being the lucky but flawed of humanity torn apart by their own insatiable obsessions.

>>49709627
Not a fan of CofD at all. Maybe it was all the years spent in the oWoD but that shit is like the fucking Twilight Zone. Werewolves suck at combat? Vampires are more common but the cost of making Neonates is HIGHER on the individual? Mages couldn't care less about the world around them?

Some CofD ideas are workable - the Assault on Precinct 13 or whatevs looks useful - but I hear they released a Combat book that sucks almost as much ass as the oWoD one did.

I've run Mage, Werewolf, Vampire and Wraith (handle the Shadows yourself as an ST unless you want your group to implode). I never get to play because no other fucker ever wants to run a game, if they do it's usually a story where we all sit and marvel at the ST's Mary Sue and watch him/her collect power ups and loot. Wat *fun*.

>>49710412
>Why did they call it Space, and not Correspondence?

Just a guess, but Correspondence in occult theory actually pertains to the idea that "like attracts like", and so things like colours, numbers, days of the week all have some kind of association with what you're trying to achieve with the spell. Easiest examples are how people automatically associate white candles with protection, healing and holiness, and black candles with curses, dark evocations and Hammer Horror Movie Satanists.

>>49711748
>I've never heard of it, so it must be WRONG
Whatever you say, oh Deep Thought. It's not like The Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn was a thing in our world, becoming the basis of an entire generation of occult societies or anything....
http://www.golden-dawn.com/eu/index.aspx

>>49723223
>all the OWoD complaints

Well, yeah. It wasn't a 4th edition of those games, it was entirely separate games being created without the baggage and expectations of the OWoD lines. Vampire hewed closest to Masquerade to not alienate their biggest base, but the others swung around with other/new ideas to differentiate themselves, and have different themes and worlds than their OWoD incarnations. It's not fair to do an apples to apples comparison, because they are aiming to do different things.

>>49723510
Also from what I understand the 2e lines 'fixed' the OMG NOTHING KILLS AS GOOD IN COMBAT AS IT DID IN OWOD complaints.I have read vampire, and holy shit they are beefy as balls.

oWoD is restrictive 90s schlock with bad mechanics.

>>49716786
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvVUtpdK7xw

don't forget they also produce hydrogen, so watch out for naked flame or there will be a 2nd explosion (maybe that's what you want anyway)

>>49717005
wait, oWoD 1e, oWoD 2e, Mummy the Resurrection or that new one? Need specifics.

>>49723223
>handle the Shadows yourself as an ST unless you want your group to implode
Why is that?

>>49721770
Three times in this wodg alone!

>>49723825
You're letting your players troll each other's characters.

>>49723973
Did it lead to drama?

>>49724074
I'm not that guy and I have yet to take a stab at wraith.

>>49723223
>werewolves suck at combat
Okay.

>>49723722
The mechanical aspect of WoD is a fairly standard simulationist ruleset. The big drain on the system is that defense is handled poorly (Because soak rolls) and declaring actions in reverse order is an unnecessary extra step.

I would very much like to see a more streamlined system going forward.

>inb4 CofD

No.

>>49724133
Popular consensus was that in the first edition of forsaken, they did.

>>49724179
You are oversimplifying oWoD's many shortcomings.

>>49724286
Such as?

>>49723825
Wraith: the Oblivion essentially has twice as many characters in the party as players. Every PC has a Shadow (part id, part suicidal ideation) that is a dark reflection of that character, yearning for Oblivion. To that end, the Shadow cajoles, threatens, pleads, whines and bullies the player like a schizophrenic hearing voices, looking for any opportunity to seize control of the Wraith's "body" and take a hammer to their entire existence, all to ensure the sweet nothingness of final destruction.

The corebook recommends you divvy up the Shadow char sheets amongst the players and let them play each other's Shadows. DO NOT DO THIS.

Amongst a group of friends who suffer any kind of mental or emotional issues, playing out this betrayal, backstabbing, psychological intimidation, specific bullying and taunting... it drains out all the fun and injures the trust between players, between friends.

>>49723970
>Three times in this wodg alone!

Dave, when can we expect the Mage FAQ and Legacy and antagonist material?

Also, any chance of Signs of Sorcery before Christmas?

>>49723970

>Three times in this wodg alone!

Time to update my heuristics for an Early DaveB Detection System.

>>49724270
>Popular consensus was that in the first edition of forsaken, they did.

It was a fluff not matching the mechanics situation. The fluff and art of the game in 1st was full of description about the mighty uratha and how brutal their rage was. Example there is fluff piece of a werewolf killing a mage with enough dot in space to teleport which is bullshit rules wise. Considering the mage planned the assault and the uratha was surprised.

Uratha can be deadly when they work in packs though but the fluff and shitty Ron Spencer art didnt help. In 2e instead of matching the fluff with the mechanics, they buff the mechanics to match the fluff.

>>49723722
>oWoD is restrictive 90s schlock with bad mechanics.

NWoD is restrictive "take me seriously, i am so torture" shit with bad mechanics.

>>49722102
>False, he would never be untrue to the majesty and power of the Komodo Dragon.

Implying that he doesnt want all his holes filled with both of them.

>>49724465

Indeed, the entire point behind 2e was to make the CofD games match the power level and tone of the fiction.

>>49724351
Ah I see, thanks. Reason I asked is that I wanted to do something similar for the owod Vampire where each player controls a Beast of a different vampire but I never fully committed to the idea because I was afraid of what you just described. Thanks for confirming my fears

>>49724270
Usually when people say CofD instead of nWoD I assume '2e where applicable'. WtF 1e was bad, but 2e is vastly improved, especially in regards to combat.

>>49724179
>defense is handled poorly (Because soak rolls)
What do you mean?

>>49724536

Personally i like it but i have heard fans complain that they should have gone the other way around. Changing the fluff.

>>49723970

What Arcana are required for hacking or controlling computers?

>>49724840
Forces
Sometimes Mind or Fate, for passwords.
Sometimes Space for airgapped systems. I am sure there was a Forces spell that let you access airgapped systems by routing through powerlines, but the last few times I went looking for it I wasn't able to find it again.

>>49724711

I honestly couldn't imagine what that'd look like.

>>49724624
Soak rolls take time. If there were some kind of formula that could be used to calculate soak automatically, it would speed things up.

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>>49724291
>>49724291
There was a lot of baffling shit I encountered during my time with VtM. CofD and friends were out already and I got to play them before, so I had something to compare it to as I played.

The first troubles I've had were before the game even started. The Disciplines were all over the place. You had 1 dot disciplines more powerful than 5 dot disciplines. Some had mildly useful functions but unreasonably harsh drawbacks. Some disciplines were irredeemably shit all throughout their line, others were so ridiculously powerful that unless you had them, you stood no chance against those who do. You know the one I'm talking about. It starts with C.

The complete absence of foresight on the part of the developers also shows in Backgrounds (hint: this one starts with G).

Having a floating target number for both the difficulty of getting a success and the number of successes needed on tests is retarded. A success should mean a success, having the definition of 'success' float around is just contrived. 1s on your rolls also should not fucking sap successes from your rolls. That's infuriating, why would you design it that way?

The initiative system isn't quite the small inconvenience you are trying to portray it as. Having to declare actions well in advance is fucking obnoxious because you can't cancel your action even to defend yourself unless you roll/spend willpower either. I hope you maxed that shit out at chargen because scaling EXP costs will ensure that you'll have an annoying time maxing it in play.

Not having a more or less unified defense value and instead splitting defense into different actions (+soak) is bad. There's also a big pile of maneuvers that's just a tiny variation on 'attack'. Strength is rendered completely worthless by Dexterity providing damage via successes.

I'm out of characters and I don't want to make another post on this.

oWoD is a poorly designed disaster. CofD isn't particularly stellar either but it's not nearly as bad.

>>49711210
>Additionally, the lore is better researched, it feels like they made the game to represent the world and not the other way around.

I also like WoD of darkness better (or better said, I haven't even touched CofD nor I want to) but this statement is comical. WoD is terribly researched, either they don't give a fuck about world history and culture or they're very ignorant on it beyond the most basic concepts.

>>49719490
I meant "I think oWoD is dumb because I'm under 30". Not "I like it even though I'm not nostalgic for it".
>>49719476
"This thing that's nearly thirty years old is unrelated to modern sensibilities of the under-25 crowd" isn't an opinion. That's an objective fact. They were very much speaking to a specific era.

>>49721269
>"And you will know these last times by the Time of Thin Blood, which will mark role-players that cannot have Fun,
I have fun. I also have good stories.
I find it much easier to have fun and make good stories in systems and settings that aren't garbage.
But shitposters like you certainly flourish.

>>49725062
They don't take that much time and brainpower, really. Complaining about one dice roll seems a bit much, and there's nothing stopping you from instituting a house rule that automatically negates 1 - 3 successes on damage rolls, depending on the comparative "armour level" of the character. Shit, you could even add a few health levels as "armour levels".

>>49720822
Do it, then.
Make the Orders into new Traditions. Show me what you'd do.

>>49720891
No, I mean that I have no nostalgic love for it and so I think the oWoD sucks. You're an anomaly with bad taste.

>>49721489
>>49721693
Long of Days was also in 1e.

>>49725274
>Long of Days was also in 1e.

Sure, might've been, I have to admit not checking up too much beyond the core book.

>>49725217
"garbage" doesn't tend to alter the entire zeitgeist and redefine whole genres, but hey, whatever you want to believe, pal. Just remember that by definition there wouldn't even be a "New World of Darkness" without, you know... the "Old World of Darkness".

>>49723195
They're not really lucky. I mean, when it gets down to it, you earned your Awakening by peeling back the layers of reality. The only luck comes in getting the chance to. It's more like sneaking into the back room than winning the lottery.

>>49722885
>That's... actually exactly what they did
Which doesn't make it good. It just means anyone with a basic grasp of those subjects is going to be annoyed by the way they're presented.
>This is meaningless to me.
Having someone who lives in Poland write about your Poland means your Poland comes off as less of a theme park. Which is what oWoD had in spades.

>Ascension is quite literally about the democratization of reality and the effort to win that conflict when the majority of humanity doesn't even realize that they're voting.
It really doesn't. For one thing, it isn't democracy if you don't know you're voting. Also, weren't you bitching about the Free Council being Democracy Magic?
>Awakening is just a love-letter to Theosophy with no central conflict.
Wrong on both. Awakening has theosophist trappings, but it's far more about Gnosticism. More than that, you act like not having the Ascension War makes the game worse (you do know the Seers exist, right? And that they're more interesting than the Technocracy anyway?). There's more and more varied conflict than in Ascension, really, and provides more narrative. Ascension really only has a handful of stories to tell, all focused around the Ascension War. Having a central conflict doesn't make for a better game. In fact, that's why oWoD is so bad. Everything is an eternal neverending war, and the game is all about fighting it. Camarilla versus Sabbat, the oncoming Apocalypse, the Ascension War. No complicated situations, just out and out conflict that your character better be part of. Vampire gets away from that the easiest, but it gets increasingly harder in the main lines.

>>49722885
>This is the least interesting part of a character to focus on. My last vampire character has guilt issues over the car crash that killed his parents, thus causing him to become a police officer.
The fact that you are physically changed is one of the core aspects and sources of drama in Changeling. Being guilty over a car crash that happened years ago in your other life is not. That's a valid character trait to focus on, but doesn't take advantage of exploring the world of the game. You can be a police officer who feels guilty over a car crash in any system with cars and cops. Not every system is about being a Changeling.

>>49722964
>That's kind of because you guys do and you have been.
You only say that because you don't realize how often normal people signpost how straight they are. I mean, the Alt-Right Manifesto and 16 Principles both say the Alt-Right is all about identity politics. So long as it's their identity.

I'm also wondering if you understand the word fetishized in this context. Because what I'm talking about is the whole "foreign means mystical" type of bullshit. They're theme park versions of those foreign cultures meant to look interesting more than anything else.

>>49725274

Not the person you're arguing with, but DaveB and Malcolm Sheppard took a pretty decent crack at it considering the limited wordcount:

Adamantine Arrow: A paradigm focused on being modern day knights, with a more grounded view of combat that the Akashic Brotherhood or even the Euthanatos. Chess imagery is common, one faction has a nasty tendency to eat their enemies.

Free Council: Possibly a faction of early Technocrats that never betrayed their Craftmason ideals. They don't really put so much stock in paradigms, because they believe that all human creations create occult correspondences that make magic possible. This, ironically, is a kind of meta-paradigm.

Guardians of the Veil: Potential splinter faction of the Euthanatos, who believe in taking on the burden of sin and killing not for redemption or mercy, but to keep magic out of the hands and the petty and the corrupt. A paradigm around a fair, just use of magic.

Mysterium: A paradigm that focuses on magic as a living, sacred thing, though not explicitly manifested into a deity as the Celestial Choir would see it. Magic itself serves as a kind of open data standard.

The Silver Ladder: A potential Order of Hermes house that broke away, or even a Technocratic splinter faction. A paradigm that revolves around an egoististical view of human potential, one that occasionally rubs shoulders with Technocratic views of the future.

>>49723560
Vampires in 2e are probably stronger than necessary. They don't really need to be unstoppable blood gods like you could cheese up in Masquerade.

>>49724519
>NWoD is restrictive "take me seriously, i am so torture" shit with bad mechanics.
But that's not true at all. oWoD literally has books that say "take me seriously i am so torture" and it's got worse mechanics. Half of the VtMB game everyone likes so much is mocking the style of VtM itself, with all the over the top emo shit.

>>49724179
It's badly done simulationism. Declaring actions in reverse order is actually pretty common, and one thing I kind of like the sound of.
CofD2e is what you want, whether you accept it or not.

>>49724291
Well, >>49725108 mentions the need to get multiple successes, but forgets to mention how stupid floating target numbers is. It plays havoc with the probabilities. The fact that everyone has the same health boxes is also dumb. Haven't seen anyone mention that yet. The poster mentioned Backgrounds, but there's also the minmax encouragement of them. And Bonus Points in general, and the way that you build a character with given dots, then bonus points, then finally XP.
Hell, just compare the mechanics of nWoD to oWoD. Anything they changed, it was probably for a good reason.

>>49725806
>but forgets to mention how stupid floating target numbers is.
This is what I meant by 'difficulty of getting a success'.

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>>49725461
>Ascension really only has a handful of stories to tell, all focused around the Ascension War.

Ha! You must have the most boring storyteller this side of the Black Stump!

Possible stories not involving the classic "Trads vs. Technocrats" Ascension War (off the top of my head):

* Internal struggles of a Player's Tradition/Convention
* Wilderness Survival
* Quests for lost artifacts, grimoires, evidence of extinct crafts, lost magicks...
* Time Travel (remember, travelling forward is easier)
* Umbral Travel (fuck the Avatar Storm, it was a shitty idea anyway)
* Struggles to resolve living a double life, including the dangers of getting too close to Sleepers & risking exposure vs. the loneliness and isolation of being forever apart from society
* Inoperable tumors (what will you do to survive?)
* Parallel Universes
* Marauders warping reality
* Nephandi trying to extinguish the sun
* The conflict caused when Mages tap Garou Caerns for Quintessence and earn an enemy FOR LIFE
* Stories involving the community surrounding the Mages - neighbourhood gangs, corrupt cops, drug dealers, human trafficking... watch the 6:30 News for inspiration
* Paradox-spawned Doppelgangers
* Murder mystery
* Teaming up with the Technocracy for a shared one-time goal (perhaps for political reasons the Technocracy can't get directly involved and need plausible deniability)
* crack out Blood Dimmed Tides and tackle the Lasombra Navy
* alien invasion
* a powerful Avatar gets split between 10 Mages and they have to bump each other off, one by one, to absorb the other's souls and become more powerful, Highlander style
* a hole gets torn in the Shroud and Spectres attack anyone who comes close, but who caused it and why?
* ancient prophecies involving artifacts on loan to the Museum... may or may not be true, so someone steals that shit to find out
* "Monster of the Week" outings from any other Splat in the WoD
* Zombie Holocaust

out of chars...

>>49725455
D&D is garbage.
Sticking with something that created a genre simply because it was the first doesn't mean anything.
Yes, oWoD redefined whole genres (actually it ripped off Shadowrun and put it in the modern day) but that doesn't mean that it's still good (or was ever good). It just means it was new and different.
You look at the first example of ANYTHING and chances are it'd be garbage by today's standards.

>>49725570
Chess imagery in the AA?
Is this from the Translation Guide?
My main problem is that translating to oWoD requires you to put in a lot of effort, or to have something with no real meat. You'd have to take those write ups and then build them up to have all the normal trappings and mechanics of a faction, and even then they'd still feel weird and out of place in the setting, due to having no history.

As an aside, I hope we get a Changeling conversion PDF. Dreaming would work so much better in CofD.

>>49725887
Oh, so you did.

>>49725806
>oWoD literally has books that say "take me seriously i am so torture"

Literally, you say? Give me a book and page number, I want to read it for myself. I'm waiting.

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Make a "World of Darkness General" out of this pic. GO GO GO

>>49725914
>Ha! You must have the most boring storyteller this side of the Black Stump!
Or you have poor reading comprehension.
I'm not talking about stories you can tell in the setting, I'm talking about stories that the setting itself tells. Ascension has one story: The Ascension War. Awakening has at least [#]: The Seers/Exarchs, the Abyss, conflict within the Pentacle, the personal quest to become stronger (I'll give that one to Ascension, too) which also ties into Awakening's themes of Hubris, and simple exploration of anything weird and strange and unusual. Sure, you can do that in Ascension, but Awakening makes looking into strange phenomena the core concept of the game.

Nevermind that almost all of those stories you listed can also be told in Awakening. Often without nearly as much baggage.

>>49725971
All of them you little shit.
But also I'd go with the WWII books, or anything in the Black Dog line.

>>49725461

>The only luck comes in getting the chance to.

Which makes it come down to luck entirely. While being a curious person who wants to examine the underlying traits of the world seemingly increases your chances, it ultimately comes down to the luck of being the right place at the right time. There's no merit to it, and only the slightest hint of destiny for some. It's the ultimate privilege, granted to only a few by byzantine means. This is in comparison to Ascension, where it's entirely possible to kickstart someone's Avatar with the right kind of training and in a dominant paradigm. It's not easy, but your average Virtual Adept would have an easier time getting the Sleepers to wake up with a really cool hack than an experienced member of the Awakening Gambit, even if that Chessmaster had an extremely solid plan.

>>49725921
>Chess imagery in the AA?
>Is this from the Translation Guide?
I think it's from one specific Legacy in their Order book (the Awakening Gambit).

>>49725995
"Edition Wars Edition"

>>49725921
>D&D is garbage.
Says you. D&D sold more copies than that poster of the tennis player adjusting her knickers, turned an entire generation on to RPG's, created a moral panic and immortalised Gary Gygax. It inspired more creativity than you could ever imagine. I'm sorry if your precious feeling were hurt because you couldn't calculate a THAC0 (joke, I don't care) but your steaming pile of an opinion doesn't diminish it's cultural importance, no matter how hard you *try* to troll. (implying you suck at it)

>Sticking with something that created a genre simply because it was the first doesn't mean anything.

It means we still like it, you poor ignoramus. It means we still like it after 30. Fucking. Years. Musicians, artists, authors... they dream of staying someone's favourite for three decades. And yet, this system, with all it's broken bits and warts, still occupies pride of place on people's shelves and player's sessions.

>Yes, oWoD redefined whole genres (actually it ripped off Shadowrun and put it in the modern day)

What? Wait, what? Did you ever actually read Shadowrun? With the futurist cyberpunk trolls and the Dragons running Megacorporations? People acting all Lawful Granola? Everyone and his dog knowing about Metahumans and no-one running the slightest hint of a Masquerade/Veil/Consensus? Where Magic had no paradox and neither did cybernetics? THAT Shadowrun?

You have the manner of a man who knows not of what he speaks, sir.

> but that doesn't mean that it's still good (or was ever good).

You throw around this subjective bullshit like it has objective fact in it. It doesn't. These are objective facts; OWoD were influential games, popular games, games that people continue to play 30 years after they first saw print and that still sell copies today POD. We should all be so lucky to create something that lasts 30 years.

>>49721269
>People who like different things from what I like are incapable of fun and enjoyment
And you're calling THEM the shitposters?

>>49725921

>Chess imagery in the AA?

The Awakening Gambit is an Acanthus Legacy that formed within the Adamantine Arrow. It uses chess imagery a lot. It is a reference to that legacy, much like how the cannibalism faction is a reference to the Arrow's Left Handed Legacy, The Devourers of the Flesh.

And yes, this is mostly written from my memory of their entries in the Mage Translation Guide, which is probably the second best Translation Guide (Demon's is the best by far).

>My main problem is that translating to oWoD requires you to put in a lot of effort, or to have something with no real meat. You'd have to take those write ups and then build them up to have all the normal trappings and mechanics of a faction, and even then they'd still feel weird and out of place in the setting, due to having no history.

It ain't that hard with the big three. There's enough thematic and faction overlap to it possible.

>Dreaming would work so much better in CofD.

Ruleset, maybe, since literally any ruleset would be better, but otherwise, nah. Its setting clicks best with WoD, though ideally it would have gotten an Orpheus style treatment as opposed to having to be a full line.

>>49722885
>Awakening is just a love-letter to Theosophy with no central conflict.
Sure there is. Just because it's not Good Guy Faction vs. Bad Guy Faction doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Mage the Ascension is mostly conflict framed as Man vs. Man and Man vs. Society. Awakening is more on the side of Man vs. Self (as is the CofD in general, really) and Man vs. Nature (since you're primarily opposed by the structure of the world as a gnostic prison where knowledge is deliberately hidden from you and rooting it out is accompanied by a hell of a lot of danger and sketchy moral choices). There's also a bit of Man vs. Society (in that the Exarchs and their servants are actively working to promote certain unpleasant Truths you're working to fight against, like "only certain chosen people matter and will get to make a difference, get out of their way or be trampled underfoot" and "everything always gets worse, so there's no point in even trying"). Hell, the entire institution of human trafficking is a perverse monument to the Truth of the Chancellor.

The Pentacle Orders come face to face with these uncomfortable Truths, realize they were placed there deliberately by what were once men in order to feed their own ambitions and power, and decide that no, it DOESN'T have to be this way (and then, often, replace those Truths with their OWN paramount, personal, egotistical Truth). The idea that all great societies crumble from within was deliberately placed there by the Mage-we-now-know-as-Merlin as a way of carving his own existence, power, and philosophy into the fundament of reality.

>>49714975
Aspel has never worn a name or a trip specifically BECAUSE that way no one can filter him.

He can't stand the idea of people not seeing his shitty opinions.

>>49726304
This is partially due to a fundamental difference in the nature of the Awakened between oWoD and nWoD.

in oWoD, the Awakened were the natural, actualized form of humanity - every human realizing their full potential, as it should be - and both sides' goal was to Awaken and Ascend everyone.

In Awakening, the Awakened are a few obsessive freaks with weird powers and always have been. The natural state of humanity in nMage is Sleepwalker, not Awakened.

>>49726081
>Or you have poor reading comprehension.
Not necessarily, you might just be shit at making yourself understood.
>I'm talking about stories that the setting itself tells.
So you're overlooking every story hook in every book to justify your position? I see.
The fact is, sonny, it's your game. You can put the emphasis on whatever you want, Ascension or Awakening. There is absolutely nothing stopping you from chasing odd phenomena in Awakening - in fact, I could change the terms on everything you cited and place it easily in a oWoD game. The Ascended (where do they go? do they care about us down here?), the nature of paradox as it pertains to faith and belief, conflict within the PC's own Tradition, yes, getting stronger, Hubris... the ST can clip anything you consider "baggage". it's a burger. you can "have it your way".
>All of them you little shit.
And yet you can't cite a single example. vague notions of "Black Dog" labels don't satisfy me. I want you to tell me on what page the phrase "take me seriously i am so torture" appears in Croatoan Song, WW3112. Perhaps "literally" was the wrong word to use? "Figuratively", perhaps would be a better choice? "Metaphorically"?

>>49726578

Not entirely true, they used to trip as Lace, and I think Drawde, then more or less dropped the trips when CofD/WoD generals started.

>>49726643

Exactly, which will inevitably change the nature of the game-line's conflict, so the original point of Mage the Awakening just being a Theosophy Simulator with no real conflict is a bit silly.

>>49726672

Forget it, Jake, it's Aspel. Nothing but baiting, bad faith arguments (even when they're completely right), and poor research ahead.

>>49726772
I think he just wants to pretend the NWoD is utterly devoid of edgelord nonsense, which may have even been true before they published "Beast: The Misunderstanding". Oh well, sadly they don't make medicine for delusions. Or stupidity. Or selective reading. Or arguing like Jane Coultier with even less personality....

>>49726885
If it was utterly devoid of edgelord nonsense it wouldn't count as World of Darkness anymore, Old or New.

Or, hell, judging by Exalted and Scion, it wouldn't count as a White Wolf game at all.

(Pugmire doesn't count because it's not owned by White Wolf OR Onyx Path).

>>49726930
Maybe he just feels self-conscious dealing with darker themes in roleplaying? Perhaps a game of Toon, or Fairy Tale Adventure might be more Aspel's speed?

>>49726993
Isn't Aspel the guy who played the child rapist Promethean (and a child-rapist Possessed from Inferno)?

>>49726930

Horror is the edgiest genre, after all.

>>49726304
It's not luck, it's determination. Or obsession.
There's more than enough shit in the CofD that if you go poking your nose into things you'll find something. Everyone has the chance to Awaken. What holds you back isn't being unlucky, it's believing the Lie.
I mean, that's one of the fundamental themes of Awakening.

There's an old story about a man who asks how the elephants in a circus are kept from escaping by such tiny rope. "They couldn't break the ropes when they were smaller, so they got used to not being able to break them".
That's the core issue. That's what keeps Sleepers from Awakening. They have the potential, and the ability, but they don't realize it. The only luck comes from inside yourself, saying "no, I *CAN* do this".

>>49726341
I know about the Gambit, I meant the info. It's weird that the Arrows as a whole would have Chess themes. Then again, Dave does like the Gambit, I think

>>49726418
>Says you. D&D sold more copies than...
That doesn't mean that it's a mechanically solid system, though. In fact, the entirety of my post is pointing out that being the first of something means you don't even HAVE to be good. You're the only one around
Everything that D&D did that you list has nothing to do with how well it works as an actual mechanical system or game.
Your problem is that you see me calling the system garbage as somehow also diminishing its cultural importance, when the opposite is true: It's cultural importance more often outweighs the fact that it was garbage
In a level playing field if all RPGs ever created were available with no information other than what was presented by the mechanics--as in, no one hyping anything up, no cultural context--not many people would pick the very first edition of D&D

>Did you ever actually read Shadowrun?
The game all about being a punk, and that was a noted inspiration for oWoD in both setting and system? Yes. I'm familiar. Apparently you took "ripped off" to mean "literally the same exact thing"

>>49727062

Dunno about the second one or whether or not it was a child, but I do remember Lace committing sexual assault on someone from the original story time threads.

>>49726478
>And yes, this is mostly written from my memory of their entries in the Mage Translation Guide, which is probably the second best Translation Guide (Demon's is the best by far).
Why do you say Demon? Because it did the most work? Vampire and Werewolf are by far the easiest games to port over to CofD, though their Translation guides were 1e, so they're garbage. The mechanics for Viccisitude in the translation guide look like ass, too. They're so oWoDy.

>>49726578
>>49726686
I've had so many names I can't remember them. I don't trip to piss you off. You, personally.
Though I stopped long before the /wodg/.

>>49726672
>Not necessarily, you might just be shit at making yourself understood.
Maybe.
But you're not really helping your own argument, either, since you can do all the things you listed in Awakening. But you said "central conflict".

>>49726772
Bitch, he jumps on the word literally and you're telling me I'm in bad faith? Did you see the bullshit he was arguing about nMage? I argue in better faith than most of the fuckers like him with their "well nWoD is for babies" arguments.

>>49726885
I've never made that argument. There's plenty of edge. But there's a hell of a lot less of it, the games aren't made around it, and what is there is either ignorable or not even as edgy.

>>49726993
I find that funny, because >>49727062 >>49727314
That's like the people on Youtube saying I must be against Haydee because I'm a prude when my avatar is from InCase.

I like darker themes. I'd just rather they be handled better than "and then we boil the babies, they make such beautiful music~!"

Also, Lace was a rape *victim*. I did play a Possessed who wanted to stop being a pedophile, though. She's the only character I've played with 2 Willpower.

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>>49725567
>The fact that you are physically changed is one of the core aspects and sources of drama in Changeling. Being guilty over a car crash that happened years ago in your other life is not. That's a valid character trait to focus on, but doesn't take advantage of exploring the world of the game. You can be a police officer who feels guilty over a car crash in any system with cars and cops. Not every system is about being a Changeling.

I'd argue that it's a more fundamental change. Experiences make us who we are far more than anything and this car crash did physically change the character (Defensive scars on his arms and legs and later stress-induced Acne). It's also less onerous on the rest of the table than a one-note character entirely based on a gender switch.

>>49725567
>I mean, the Alt-Right Manifesto and 16 Principles both say the Alt-Right is all about identity politics. So long as it's their identity.

Oh, you think you're talking to /pol/, your palette-swap. You're adorable.

>>49725567
>I'm also wondering if you understand the word fetishized in this context. Because what I'm talking about is the whole "foreign means mystical" type of bullshit. They're theme park versions of those foreign cultures meant to look interesting more than anything else.

Pic related. A sourcebook on different magical styles from primitive cultures and dead civilizations. Highly recommended. And again, you ignore that, in the lore, this fetishization happened due to a colonialist attitude on the part of Euro mages. You're not gonna get anywhere if you just say the same thing over and over again, dawg.

>>49725461
>Which doesn't make it good. It just means anyone with a basic grasp of those subjects is going to be annoyed by the way they're presented.

History Grad student, here. It's got a level of fidelity way higher than that of most other RPG's. You seem to expect a high level undergrad course and if you're doing that, you're gonna be disappointed. (cont.)

>>49727443
>I like darker themes. I'd just rather they be handled better than "and then we boil the babies, they make such beautiful music~!"
We disagree that "rape someone, then mutilate myself and cry" Lace was handled better or less edgily than boiling babies for the sounds they make.

>>49727281

>It's not luck, it's determination. Or obsession.

It's being lucky enough to touch the Supernal Realms, and managing to come back unharmed.

>There's more than enough shit in the CofD that if you go poking your nose into things you'll find something. Everyone has the chance to Awaken. What holds you back isn't being unlucky, it's believing the Lie.

And that something may kill you, it may turn you into another supernatural, it may trap you forever, it may just turn out to be nothing at all. Typical Awakened Mages are the lucky, lucky few who haven't been killed, haven't been turned, and haven't had their Awakening go wrong.

>That's what keeps Sleepers from Awakening. They have the potential, and the ability, but they don't realize it.

And yet even when they become a Sleepwalker, and know it is possible, they may still never Awaken, or it doesn't lessen their chances of something going wrong. It all comes down to winning the Supernal lottery, and it is just as likely for the experienced Sleepwalker to win that lottery as it is the construction worker who follows the same typical routine every morning.

On the macro level, there is nothing inherent or special that marks someone for Awakening, only a psychological profile that could just as easily be put into a "chicken or egg" conundrum.

Again, this is one of the biggest differences between Ascension's Mages and Awakening's Mages. Ascension Mages are something higher than mankind, guided along by Avatars who have lived from past life to past life and ready to bring the world to its truest birthright.. Awakening Mages, on the other hand, are aberrants of nature created by cosmic acts of god with delusions of grandeur, seeking out solutions to mysteries that only really matter to them.

Who is this aspel nut? Is there a wiki page on him or something?

>>49727705
He's just a faggot who haunts every single wodg thread (cue Aspel bringing up the one time he took like a whole three threads in a row off as proof he doesn't do this!), gets into arguments constantly and refuses to drop them while insisting the people he's arguing with have no idea what they're talking about (while getting all his own info from youtube videos and wikis), and apparently now accusing people who disagree with him of being alt-right plants?

>>49725461
>Having someone who lives in Poland write about your Poland means your Poland comes off as less of a theme park. Which is what oWoD had in spades.

Buzzwords! The Buzzwordening! Hardly, in fact this is why I go to the BBC for my news about America: They have less of an emotional stake involved in the outcome. Someone from Poland will probably pick up on cultural themes that someone else wouldn't. This is true.

I also don't care and I don't use it as a metric and your insistence on doing so does nothing but make you sound shrill and scolding.

>>49725274
>Make the Orders into new Traditions. Show me what you'd do.

Fist you are autistic for thinking mage ascension is somehow restrictive as there a whole book dedicated to run the game in whatever way you want. If one can run a space steampunk opera with ascension, you think running shitty hermetics is somehow difficult?

Also, nobody runs awakening into ascension because Ascension rules are shit. But is kinda telling, as you said many people run ascension with awakening rules, those people like the Ascension setting more than awakening to run it with awakening system.

But sure, lets give it a try. 2 ways to do this.

1) I would run a game set in revised meaning ascension war is over a noone cares about it (if i wanna leave the "setting" as intact as possible). In the city of X there is 9 small crafts all veering control for the city.

The adamantine arrow a pseudo chinesse or indu craft (i remember their order book saying something about having some roots in there) that uses martial arts (maybe use a reskined do or just a focus as martial art) and believes struggle breed stronger souls (this is no obligatory but its a nice nod to the reincarnation of Ascension)

The Guardian of the veil. A small craft that keeps a pulse in the cities hedge wizard or just occultist afficionados keeping lots of secret society in an effort to gather more newly awakened (remember than in ascension a "slow" awakening was possible). They paradigm revolves around then using masks which represent identities (i think they were 32 in the order book) that they take. They eliminate dangers to sleepers and other mages so other dont have too.

The Mysterium an small craft that believes the reason magic is dying and is their duty to salvage as much of it as they can. They paradigm is incredible open but they roots are clearly chinesse by the use gaunxi. They try their best to acumulate as much wonders as they can, and find ways to combine different paradigm. To them magic is alive and search for inificcation.

The Silver Ladder believe that in ascension to all. And thus experiment strongly with sleeper to push them toward that. Their paradigm is funded in a old treaty they fund with laws of a ancient society from a umbra plane no longer in existence. Any authority symbol is magick because mages should be leaders. Mostly fans of blatant magic.

In the city of X this craft formed a loose alliance name the diamond they are oppossed by 2 groups

The free council, is asmall council of disparate crafts that got together to fight the other two. Initially they were nothing more than sorcerers but eventually they swell their ranks with true mages in the city that didnt bought into the other 2 groups.

The final group is a shadow council of smallcraft that got in their head that the technocracy and vampires had the right idea. Abandoning the ascension war they decided to work to execute control in human population. They flew under the technocracy and other radar by using similar nudge to vampire but instead of working towards any kind of social agenda the worked to get more influence and wealth. To the magic will never become easy and paradox is a fact of life now and forever. Who cares if magic is more and more difficult for the next generation? That a problem for the assholes of tomorrow.

Thats the most keeping it with the setting way of doing it.

2) Grab my previous descriptions and either remove the "their paradigm....." and just make them a incredible open paradigm. Or if you wanna fully integrate it with Ascension setting make the adamantine arrow an offshoot of akhashics, the guardians from the euthanatos, the mysterium from one of the chinesse crafts or hermetics, the Silver ladder an offshot from hermetic house ex miscellana. And the free council a fringe dissparate.

3) Just grab the entire setting of awakening and run it in ascension rules. Just remove the paradigm rules, use the rules for soul stone as written (now capping arete) and remove reality zones.

>>49724974
>I honestly couldn't imagine what that'd look like.

A fluff in which that didnt emphasize how strong the uratha are but instead how they had to work in team work to survive agaisnt one mage or one combat oriented vampire?

Are there any decent actual play videos / podcasts of CoD / WoD games? Never played it and interested to see what it looks like.

>>49727383

>Why do you say Demon? Because it did the most work?

Because Demon realized that people also like to translate and crossover aspects of the setting. The other Translation Guides did that to a smaller extent, but Demon went for it, and that's something that should be appreciated and encouraged. More (good) gaming options is always good.

>I argue in better faith than most of the fuckers like him with their "well nWoD is for babies" arguments.

Going "oWoD is dumb" on the equivalent level of argument does not actually make you a better debater, I'm sorry. You're not good at this, which is why it's so mind-boggling that you insist on doing this almost every other thread.

>That's like the people on Youtube saying I must be against Haydee because I'm a prude when my avatar is from InCase.

Oh, you're a YouTube commentator. That explains everything!

>>49727383
>"well nWoD is for babies" arguments.

Nobody is doing this. If you like CofD, play CofD. I have my preference, you have yours.

>>49727383
>There's plenty of edge. But there's a hell of a lot less of it, the games aren't made around it, and what is there is either ignorable or not even as edgy
>>49727443
> I did play a Possessed who wanted to stop being a pedophile

Yeah. Real ignorable. I see that in the absence of your Vitamin Edge you like to cram in as much of it as the seams can take. You claim the games don't revolve around it, but then you force it to with your character creation.

You're like those mouthbreathing climate change deniers that gush in one breath how the data is all faked, then point to THE SAME DATA and insist we've had a "20 year pause" in rising sea temperatures with no apparent insight into how fucking insane you sound.

That and you don't know how to use the word "literally" properly.

>>49727629
>I'd argue that it's a more fundamental change
Becoming a Changeling is a lot bigger than some scars from a car crash. Also, you're the one who keeps going on about "one-note". Your character sounds one note, too, if that's the case. You also ignored the bulk of the argument there, which is that changeling-centric drama is better for Changeling than generic drama is for Vampire.

I don't think I'm talking to /pol/, and I have no idea what that has to do with anything.

You're still not understanding what fetishization means. Maybe "exoticism"?

I don't want a high level grad course. I just don't want dumb pop culture shit.

>>49727679
Lace also had an entire game to get to that point, and it was brought on by Lineage induced madness and the circumstances. Boiling babies was literally just the intro paragraph to a KotE splat.

>>49727695
>It's being lucky enough to touch the Supernal Realms, and managing to come back unharmed.
That's also not luck. I mean, you're using "luck" here to mean something a lot different than I am. When I say that it's not based on luck, I mean that every human being isn't just sitting in a lottery pool waiting to get picked. You go out and earn it. You reach for it even when the Lie says you can't.
But Awakened Mages aren't cosmic accidents, either. They don't have passed lives or anything, but they are higher than normal muggles. They're people who realized the world was a Lie and sought Truth. The only "luck" is that they were able to avoid death. But by all that, Ascension Mages are just as lucky.

>>49727748
>He's someone who posts in the thread that I disagree with, so that makes him the worst. Also, he proved me wrong once so I really hate him.
I didn't say they're plants. What? No. I said people have shitty worldviews.

>>49727758
The BBC isn't writing about a fucking fictionalized America, they're journalists.
Meanwhile in oWoD's Asia, everyone is a kung fu master and carries a katana.

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>>49713169
>>49727062
>>49727705
>>49727748
There's a way to handle that. On my home-board, we had someone like this. A trip/pseudo-trip that couldn't help but fag everything up.

But everyone slips and posts something that they shouldn't post. In this case, the fact that his mother was dying of cancer. So, whenever he popped up, everything became "why hasn't your mother died of cancer yet?" and other variations on a theme, sometimes posted with pictures of breasts that had explosively grown tumors that expanded so quickly that they tore the skin. It's a blue board and we weren't afraid to take a banning. Any thread that they entered, this was all that they got. As they revealed more and more of themselves through stress-caused, forced errors we were eventually able to dox them. Now we don't have to worry.

Food for thought.

>>49727758
The BBC uses American journalists, or at least journalists IN America. There's a difference between that and looking up a country on Wikipedia and writing a load of junk.

Here are some additional attainments I'm going to use for my Mage game. I'd appreciate any advice or criticism.

Mana wyrm
Prerequisites Prime ••••
At this level of skill a Mage develops insight into the flow of mana from the supernal to the mundane world. Whenever a Mage gains mana roll dice (10 again) equal to the number of dots in prime. Gain additional points of mana equal to success.

Energy harvest
Prerequisite Forces••••
May only be used for sensory range casting
Sleepers have learned how to harness forces to perform mundane tasks it's no surprise that mages can do the same with spell casting.

Spend a point of mana to use ambient energy (see transform energy) as an environmental yantra. Doing so provides no additional dice but raises the potency of a spell equal to the level of force present (e.g. a forest fire may be used to give a spell potency 5). This attainment may be combined with temporal and spacial sympathy but reduces the bonus by one rank (e.g. a piece of obsidian from the eruption of Krakatoa can be used to give a spell cast in modern day Chicago 3 potency)

>>49727898
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBr55_UCfik

I think the storyteller for this game is actually on the OPP payroll - most of the players know the fluff from Mind's Eye LARP but this is their first foray into tabletop. Also, that Toreador isn't as disruptive as she first appears (praise the Thousand Foreskins Upon The Tongue of Aspel)

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>>49728096
I like this story

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>>49727913
>translate and crossover aspects of the setting.
You mean like having both kinds of Demon? I don't know what you mean.
Also I give more reasons than just "oWoD is dumb". It's usually followed by a "and here's why".

>>49727959
Several people have said that. Both in those words and in words that amounted to it, like the implication that it being easier to get into is a negative.

>>49728020
I feel like you're being intentionally obtuse. A Possessed who wants to stop being a pedophile isn't "edgy". It could be, sure, but that's not the sort of thing I'm talking about. I'm talking about "we're doing things just to be gross and transgressive and cause controversy". Which is something that nWoD doesn't do nearly as much, and CofD doesn't seem to be doing it at all, though I'm sure some people would consider Beast that, but even if you do, it's clearly not the intent.
oWoD on the other hand does that a LOT.

Also
>lit·er·al·ly; adverb
>in a literal manner or sense; exactly.
>(informal) used for emphasis or to express strong feeling while not being literally true.
I'm sorry that you don't understand figurative language.

>>49728055
>You're still not understanding what fetishization means. Maybe "exoticism"?

I know exactly what you mean. I just don't care and your standard for what constitutes it is simplistic at best. It's a shitty point of contention only cared about by shitty people.

>The BBC isn't writing about a fucking fictionalized America, they're journalists.
>Meanwhile in oWoD's Asia, everyone is a kung fu master and carries a katana.

A distinction without a difference. And it most emphatically isn't. Yes, KotE marks the point that you notice that WWGS discovered anime. If you look at the templates provided in the splatbooks, no they aren't all martial artists. You haven't actually bothered to look into this, you're just repeating something you heard on tumblr.

>>49728098
Wikipedia didn't exist when this game line was laid out.

Is that why the Transylvania Chronicles provide translation guidelines for all of the languages spoken in the region based on actual philology?

>>49725108
>oWoD is a poorly designed disaster. CofD isn't particularly stellar either but it's not nearly as bad.

Dont forget regenerations rules for WtA. It took them 4 editions (1,2,revised and forsaken) to make them not stupid.

>>49725461
>(you do know the Seers exist, right? And that they're more interesting than the Technocracy anyway?)

Go home anon, you are drunk. Cyborgs, clones and lazors are way more interesting that boring hellfire club.

>>49725461
>Ascension really only has a handful of stories to tell, all focused around the Ascension War.

You do remember in Revised the ascension war was over and nobody gave a fuck dont you anon? Or the taste of DaveB cock is overwhelming your brain?

>>49725806
>But that's not true at all. oWoD literally has books that say "take me seriously i am so torture" and it's got worse mechanics. Half of the VtMB game everyone likes so much is mocking the style of VtM itself, with all the over the top emo shit.

Owod didnt took itself as seriously as NWoD, it knew to chill and laught at itself. NWoD is all drama without any king of levity because that was mature adults do(?)

>>49725921
>My main problem is that translating to oWoD requires you to put in a lot of effort, or to have something with no real meat.

Same with doing the other way around, your point? Tell me how do i make a fire mage in awakening that can only do fire magic (i dont mind chooses to, i mean CAN ONLY DO) and because thats his paradigm and has to find ways to use fire in inventive ways?

>>49728096
You sound like a shitty human being.
Isn't that causing more of a problem than that poster ever would? I mean, shit, you derail every thread he posts in to talk about his mother? How does that fix anything? You just ruin your own threads.

>>49728137
Forgot to add that the effect ignores supernal meddling. So a flashlight will only provide 1 potency even if you've enchanted it to be as bright as a floodlight.

>>49728137
>Mana wyrm
Replacing Imbued Items? I'd limit it to Obliations though

>Energy Harvest
Hahahaha, no way in fucking hell.

>>49728246
Yeah, but I'm a shitty human being that can now have a productive conversation.

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>>49725806
Sir!... are you forgetting...

BOB SCHNOBLIN'S PYRAMID OF SATANIC POWER?

>>49728225
>Several people have said that. Both in those words and in words that amounted to it, like the implication that it being easier to get into is a negative.

Why the game being easy to get into/run it would be a negative?

>>49728235
If you know what I mean, why does every post feel like you're talking about something completely unrelated? WoD is filled with stereotypes. That's what I'm saying.
Also, that's not a distinction without a difference. That's a fucking huge difference. Putting in actual effort in a news story isn't the same as filling your roleplaying game with stereotypes. Also, fuck, White Wolf was anime from the beginning.
>Wikipedia didn't exist when this game line was laid out.
I feel like you're completely missing the point, but that's really just par for the course, isn't it?
He's using Wikipedia as a shorthand. What he means is that they did only basic research, much of it based on their existing understanding of real world locations. It wasn't meaningful research or actual effort, it was a pop culture osmosis understanding of things.

>If you look at the templates provided in the splatbooks, no they aren't all martial artists.
Are you a robot or something? Are you incapable of understanding figurative language and rhetoric? When I say "everyone", that doesn't mean literally fucking every character in all of the books. What it means is that there is a large focus on exotic, unrealistically mystical and foreign aspects. It's a caricature. A parody.
A theme park.

>>49728237
>Go home anon, you are drunk. Cyborgs, clones and lazors are way more interesting that boring hellfire club.
You not understanding the Seers means nothing.

>NWoD is all drama without any king of levity because that was mature adults do(?)
Dudes of Legend isn't levity?
Bob the Builder is a fucking Mage. Fuck, Tom Cruise is a Mage.
Trying to one up 40k isn't levity, and acting like oWoD didn't take itself seriously is laughable.

>>49728098
Explain to us how White Wolf accessed Wikipedia for their information in Rage across Russia or Rage across the Amazon in 1993, as well as nearly all the Asian sourcebooks in 1998, when the concept of a wiki wasn't even created until 1995 and didn't go online until 2001.

I'm waiting, Asspel. I'm *very* interested to see how, exactly, I have misunderstood your baseless assertion.

>>49728333
Because there's this notion that if something is easier on the players that it's for ~casuals~.
You also get that attitude with OSR players. "Pff, we don't NEED rules to help us roleplay [that's why we like rules that are mechanically clunky]"

Hey /tg, do vampire clans in requiem (2nd) dont matter politically and covenant are the politically definning organizations? Or they do? Or it is one of those things that matter if the DM want to make it a thing?

>>49728413
>He's using Wikipedia as a shorthand. What he means is that they did only basic research, much of it based on their existing understanding of real world locations. It wasn't meaningful research or actual effort, it was a pop culture osmosis understanding of things.
That also wasn't me, you dumbass. It turns out that not everyone who disagrees with you is the same person.

>>49728424
Clans matter, though Covenant matters more. Bloodlines matter a lot within the Covenants, as many of them are related to the Covenant itself (the Eupraxis, for instance).
Some domains have Clans matter more, like Beijing in the 2e corebook.

>>49728392
>ore interesting that boring hellfire club.
>You not understanding the Seers means nothing.

I understand them, i understand their cowardly, greedy and morally lazy ideals. I just find them dull in comparison to the technocracy.

>>49728392
>oWoD didn't take itself seriously is laughable.

Fishop, the toaster that was etherite speaker, the zepellin emperor, the batman marauder, the fact that you could play a clone or a person from an alternate dimension or time, a pink triceratops, space cities, hollow one. You got 1 one aprils fool book and bob the builder....yeah, i can see how NWoD has such levity.

do they at least pay you to suck this much NWoD cock anon?

>>49728450
>Clans matter, though Covenant matters more. Bloodlines matter a lot within the Covenants, as many of them are related to the Covenant itself (the Eupraxis, for instance).
>Some domains have Clans matter more, like Beijing in the 2e corebook.

So its a "if the dm want to make it a thing it matters" thing?

Say if im a lancea sanctum gangrel and you are a slightly older CoTC gangrel, i dont have to give 3 shits about your clan and just burn you because you are pagan? (assuming that the Lancea sactum MO on the city)

>>49728392
>If you know what I mean, why does every post feel like you're talking about something completely unrelated? WoD is filled with stereotypes. That's what I'm saying.
>Also, that's not a distinction without a difference. That's a fucking huge difference. Putting in actual effort in a news story isn't the same as filling your roleplaying game with stereotypes. Also, fuck, White Wolf was anime from the beginning.

Your definition of a stereotype is unnecessarily strict. It seems to also include "stock characters commonly found in the fictional output of foreign countries."

>I feel like you're completely missing the point, but that's really just par for the course, isn't it?
>He's using Wikipedia as a shorthand. What he means is that they did only basic research, much of it based on their existing understanding of real world locations. It wasn't meaningful research or actual effort, it was a pop culture osmosis understanding of things.

Why are you defending someone else's hyperbole?

>Are you a robot or something? Are you incapable of understanding figurative language and rhetoric? When I say "everyone", that doesn't mean literally fucking every character in all of the books. What it means is that there is a large focus on exotic, unrealistically mystical and foreign aspects. It's a caricature. A parody.
>A theme park.

Forgive me for taking your words literally on the internet. I will endeavor to not take anything that you type at face value. I also note that you ignored my point about language compatibility rules in some of those supplements. You seem to be characterizing the line based upon a supplement that you don't like.

>>49728538
Are you genuinely bragging about your horror game being more random and whimsical than someone elses?