Napoleonic Fantasy General continued, because I thought that

>>49686909
>Napoleonic Fantasy
Wait... Does that mean I finally, FINALLY get to have my elven redcoats? Semi-industrial cities? Ancient magic meeting modern scientific method and commercialism and one or the other not simply collapsing?!

Hell YEAH I'm on board with this! What do we have so far?

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>>49686909
>When you can raise armies of musket-armed infantrymen faster than the knife-ears can produce skilled bowmen

>>49687283
>victory through discipline brothers, we'll show those knife eared auxillaries how the regulars do battle

>>49687283
>When your disciplined, rigid ranks get picked apart by elven guerilla tactics and ambushes, as they just REFUSE to stand in a line and fight fairly!

Wait, Sharpe's Rifles was set in the Napoleonic period... Oh damn, I really want to see that now. Greenjackets versus elves in the woods and mountains.

>>49687004

I'd expect the elves to go more with Chosen Men (Ala: Shape's Rifles) over redcoats. They can take much better use of the superior accuracy of a rifle and low birth rates are not fun with formations designed to take losses from enemy fire.

I'd personally see Elves developing more modern tactics for firearms to help make up for the lack of numbers.

>>49686909
I once ran an entire campaign based on that. I found that Napoleon is about the upper limit of time periods you can do with DnD, and with 5th just treating guns like any other ranged weapon, it makes it a really fun time to do.

>>49687338
As fun as that would be, how about razing the entire elven woodland to the ground with howitzers and field guns?

>>49687406

Well, assuming the elves don't go and slit the necks of the guys supposed to be manning them in the evenings.

Razing land also generally is a bad idea as you want to keep the land and it's resources for yourself. Razed land benefits no one.

>>49687345
So the elves reject the musket early, due to it only being much good in massed volleys, that their arrows can do better, with their mages to supplement their traditional forces. Pike-and-shot of the expansionist human nations is met with mobile conventional troops and magic shields to protect infantry as they advance.

But once the humans invent rifling, the elves are suddenly all over that shit, as it means they can FINALLY use their eyesight, dexterity and quality of metalworking to their advantage. As more and more muskets and more powerful firearms at that, have been introduced to the human forces, the elves have typically found themselves on the back foot whenever it comes to war. Now however, elven dragoons and riflemen can rapidly out-flank human formations, positioning themselves in cover and far beyond the effective range of a musket, using fire-and-maneuver to keep the humans in check, while their light field guns and cavalry isolate and eliminate the human armies piecemeal. It's not going to immediately reverse the elven fortunes, but it IS enough to give the kingdoms and republics of humanity pause and consider the elves as military equals, rather than a traditionalist backwater.

>>49687345
I can see that happening too. Though in the end I can also witness the Elven armies overrun by massed cavalry charges overrunning their skirmish lines, and excessive use of artillery putting the final nail in their coffins

>>49687431

Yeah, I think Rifles and Man Portable Explosives are going to be two things that elves love to death.

Snipers are great for breaking morale without losing guys in response/removing officers and man portable explosives let a single man do massive damage. Sneaky guys in the middle of the night with early grenades and chosen men.

>>49687450

>Cavalry
>Vs a group who live in forests.

I wouldn't do that to your horses.

Elves adopt the skirmish line as the main line of battle very early on.

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>>49687450
>>49687406
You're assuming that just because the Elves at first fight like they're still in the late 14th to 16th century, their civilian development has also lagged behind.

Endless Legend had interesting not-elves; they left the forests due to their traditional practices slowly driving their people insane and set up shop on the planes. Due to practice shaping living wood and stone, they are actually one of the more industrial factions in the game.

Likewise, elves have a fine tradition of craftsmenship in most settings. I can see them using modern technology to more quickly produce their works by hand-finishing it, once the bulk of the work is done in a largely automated manner. While not quite as efficient at humans, due to not adopting assembly-line developments and trying to grow their industry sustainably, they could still be an industrialised and modern nation within their cities.

>>49687461
Absolutely. Elves with the ability to strategically skirmish and attack supply lines with modern weapons would be the biggest part of their military. While weak in pitched battles, or if caught on open terrain, they should not be under-estimated however! If forced to fight man-to-man, or on the offensive, Elven tactics will include going to ground, ambushes and firing while they maneuver, never trading lives for ground if they can do the opposite. Meanwhile, dragoons and cavalry, as well as light artillery (3-pound horse guns for instance) would try to disrupt the enemy formation, so that fire can be focused and the enemy eliminated piecemeal.

This is in stark contrast to human tactics, which resemble our world in the early 1800s; large formations, fairly inflexible and capable of both giving and receiving massive damage, while sacrificing tactical flexibility.

>>49687461

Modern Elves would likely do something similar to what the Australian army has, where the Austeyr has significantly better sights than a lot of armies basic rifles. Elves would be able to take serious advantage of that and shoulder launchers to have terrifying (If massive $ per dude) infantry squads.

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>>49687431
Would the Elven mages be practical as frontline fighters? Or would they be limited to more of a support role like sappers and engineers?

Elves aren't very plentiful. Decent Elven mages would reasonably be even less plentiful. I reckon they would be too valuable to placed on the frontlines, where specially-trained sharpshooters and opportunistic artillerymen can eliminate them far too easily. Though in the end I guess it just depends on what type of magic they're capable of and how potent their powers are. I suppose the same applies for human mages too, if they're in the setting

Even if you do the "fantasy in [time period]" why would you limit yourself to one nation = one race? Some may be, some may not.
Also remember to talk about period appropriate themes and worldbuilding or "no-more-heroes" anon will eat your thread!

>>49687539

I'd imagine they'd likely be more in the special forces/engineer role. At least, assuming they have any classic tricks like invisibility or reshaping the terrain.

>>49687488
Honestly, for much of human history, you could say we 'lived in forests'. We still built our cities on the flat, on elevated positions, or near waterways. While elven lands may be heavily forested, they likely wouldn't be 100% woodland. Don't forget that many settings have elves as outstanding cavalrymen too, so if they have horses, they must have more open terrain as part of their realms.

We should probably nail some things down about what to expect from elves and humans and other races in this setting. One thing I REALLY want is for there to not be an 'elven kingdom'. I mean ffs, just think how silly it is to look at humanity and assume we'd form anything like a single, monolithic kingdom or empire.

>>49687539
You mean in the past couple centuries, or in more modern times? That makes a huuuge difference.

And yeah, even if elves produce more mages than any other race, either proportionally, or as an absolute number, they still shouldn't be a dime a dozen. Even one in every hundred would be pretty god-damn impressive, at least one powerful enough to use magic as a weapon or force-multiplier.

>>49686909
Seven Years War fantasy is better.

Man, now I want to get back to working on that army I was making for Kings of War. Someone made an industrial revolution elf list for it.

Flintloque fits this bill pretty well. Models aren't great but the game is fun enough.

>>49687588
I have to admit, I do like tricorns rather more, but Napoleonic times are more interesting for the world surrounding the battles; the nations; the philosophies; the industry; the way new technology was really starting to change things...

In other news, what other races are we including in this setting? Dwarves? Sentient undead? Hob/Goblins? Orcs? Demons & Angels/winged humanoids? I don't think the fantasy kitchen sink should be thrown in here, at least not on a single continent the size (and rough shape) of Europe. We can do better than that, I'd like to imagine.

I can imagine that Elven gunsmiths would be in popular demand everywhere, eventually rivaling Dwarven gunsmiths down the line when they start taking modernisation more seriously.

They'd probably be hired by human nations mostly to craft superior specialist gear for units such as sharpshooters. Further into the modern era, Elven gunsmiths will evolve into the fantasy world equivalent of Barrett and Accuracy International

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>>49687687

I think Dwarves and Elves would likely have comparable but quite different designs. (That would make them utterly terrifying to face down if they team up).

Elven machinery is very agile and smooth and accurate.

Dwarven machinery is tough as a rock, hits hard and is very reliable.

When it got to vehicles eventually you'd likely see 'Dwarves make MBTs without equal' vs 'Elves make fantastic Mobile Guns/APCs' (Like the Stryker variant with a full tank turret).

>>49687648

Orcs are good. They are likely fantastic shocktroopers and surprisingly good with artillery. They don't have the accuracy or skill of elves and dwarves but Man Portable is a lot larger a category with an orc.

>>49687766
Maybe in the future. For now, let's keep things focused in the Napoleonic period. For instance, dwarves would soon learn the value of breach-loaders, HEAVY guns, barbed wire and how to entrench, while Elves prefer to fire on the move and use natural cover.

Besides, the far more fascinating aspect is the alliances, philosophies, international policies and national identities are more interesting in my mind, than just what their military uses.

>>49687788
What would their relationship be to the other nations however? Keep in mind that a tribal or semi-nomadic society has no-where near the manufacturing, economic, political or educational base to produce modern armies, much less on the scale more modern nations could.

>>49687687
>elves make long rifled guns, primarily for accurate hunting, they are expensive and hard to use, but elves live a long time
>dwaeves make strong, reliable, muskets to maximize use in a formation, and to get many shots off before your gun heats up
>humans make guns similiar to dwarves, but lighter

elves are frontiersmen and hunters, so it would make sense for them to favor guns that are accurate, they dont use formations, so the loss of rate of fire is acceptable, they would likely carry a seperate melee weaoon instead of a bayonet, since of they need cqc they wait for favorable terms, instead of charging bayonets fixed, like continental riflemen

humans and dwarves would fight in disciplined formations, so maximising volley fire is more important, so they would use a musket specially designed for this, with rate of fire and prolonged use being important, and having bayonets, like redcoats

>>49687805
How about the orcs being used much like less advanced societies could be used in our world, bribed, bought and used as disposable allies or mercenaries? Give them old muskets and use them in a daring night attack. They can see better in the dark and they are strong and aggressive... And you don't care if they die.

>>49687844
orks = land pirates

>>49687844

I could see them as a less prestigious version of the swiss pikeman. They are famous mercenaries (In this case for raw physical power rather than superb training) that end up hired by basically everyone in every war?

That brings in a lot more economy and is starting to produce a proper, static society for the orcs rather than the previous tribal one they had.

>>49687588
The only Seven Years War fantasy I can think of ever seeing was "Brotherhood of the Wolf."

>>49687844
>>49687870
Oh shit... Guys, I've got it.

There was one 'primitive' group that the British Empire was so damn impressed with after their war with them, they flat-out GAVE UP trying to conquer them and just adopted them into the army.

Guys... Orc Gurkhas. But I'm thinking in terms of culture, they probably more in like with the Maori. I mean can you imagine how fucking TERRIFYING a bunch of orc shock troopers would be, performing a hakka?

>>49687870
>>49687917
A fierce and primitive culture that are employed as mercenaries, cheap and disposable or expensive and valued depending on their level of training. Some are directly recruited into more advanced national armies like the Gurkhas or French or Papal Swiss guards. Valued because of their aggression, disregard of their own safety and proficiency in close combat. Who cares if they can't make guns- we'll give them guns and point them towards the enemy.

>>49687450
>>49687565

I suspect some groups of elves could also wind up something like the Cossacks or Scots. They get absorbed into a larger nation and wind up filling a military niche.

It won't be lost on commanders who face them that, yes the elvish skirmish line is about as sturdy as a windowpane, it's equally hard to spot and will cut you to buggery if you try and walk through it. If they have the opportunity to recruit and deploy them to screen their own formations, they will.

>>49687406
>how about razing the entire elven woodland to the ground with howitzers and field guns?
Completely impractical in a Napoleonic setting. You're looking at cannons throwing solid shot instead of exploding shells. Trying to level a forest with that kind of artillery would be a complete waste of resources.

>>49687966
>>49688013
Alright, I think due to the fact that geographical location dictates so much of a nation's fortunes and foreign relations, we really need a map up in this house.

Anyone want to step up to the plate? In the meantime, what are the major and not-so-major powers of the various (shall we say three or four?) continents?

>>49688056
Aaactually, they DID have explosive shot... Just not in anything like large numbers. This isn't the 18th century, after all.

Of course, I'm betting dwarvern nations or the like, who love them some entrenchment, would be all about abusing artillery to its Nth degree.

>>49688074
>Of course, I'm betting dwarvern nations or the like, who love them some entrenchment, would be all about abusing artillery to its Nth degree.
The Dwarves seem like the types that would master direct-fire artillery, but I'm not sure they'd be able to take that next step into a quantitative, early-modern understanding of artillery. In most settings they're a relatively conservative bunch that in most settings prefer to do things the old ways.

They'd probably be able to use direct-fire artillery easily, but see it more as an art form rather than a science such that they won't be able to properly utilize indirect-fire artillery such as Mortars and Howitzers in a way that, say, humans or gnomes might be able to.

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>>49687283
>>49687309
>>49687338
>>49687345
>>49687406
>>49687428

imagine elves vs whom-ever would look something like this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Clair%27s_Defeat

>>49688229

>You wanna go to the elf reservation for some tax free liquor and smokes later?

>>49688229
That's actually a really cool idea. Nicking it.

>>49688229
also
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyrPzy6y_IA

>>49688246
heh...I lol'd.

>>49688247
why thank you. check out Braddock's defeat and the Seminole Wars for more examples.

>>49688332
It's been a while since I did reading on American Indian wars and culture. Might be a reason to break out my ancient copy of Mystic Warriors of the Plains that I got before it became to non-PC to print. Got so many good clothing and lifestyle references in that book.

>>49688229
>>49688332
Except unlike the native american nations, the elves are agricultural and even lightly industrialised, allowing them to actually use their victories effectively and keep a standing army in the field much longer than tribes could ever hope to.

>>49688167
Seems like it might be reasonable... But oh god, please don't use the G-word again. Bloody ankle-biting "Lolsoquirkyandtechnologee" cut-price hobbits!

>>49688399
Depends on what you're using. I wouldn't make my elves agricultural and there were groups of agricultural Native Americans. I prefer the idea of them actually being fey and in contact with nature, which is where they gain their powers. Perhaps through spirit magicks and the like. Meanwhile humanity has industrialized.

>>49688332

The problem with those sorts of victories is that they're usually followed by "And then 1 - 5 years later a bigger, better equipped, better led army marched in and crushed them."

>>49688421

Kinda makes it a bit dull if they are (Once again) staying static while the world is changing. I got really tired about that in Warhammer. 3 elf factions and none of them cared about tech.

>>49688399
>Except unlike the native american nations, the elves are agricultural
>>>49688454
>The problem with those sorts of victories is that they're usually followed by "And then 1 - 5 years later a bigger, better equipped, better led army marched in and crushed them."


pretty much...the catch-22 for the Eastern Tribes was that they were more settled and had agriculture, therefore it was easier for them to form larger armies BUT also easier for the Europeans to find them, force major battles and defeat them.

>>49688474
I guess part of the problem for me is using the generic fantasy races in a Napoleonic-esque fantasy setting. I'd rather have races that fit better with the themes of the setting. Humans for technological expansionism, one for the old nobility and whatnot stuck in the ways of the past, etc.

>>49688421
>>49688545
Guys, there were humans in the old and new worlds... What's to stop there being elves on both continents that are vastly culturally divergent?

>>49688562
Think how many divisions there are between humans. Even in fantasy settings, there's never just ONE human kingdom or empire. Meanwhile, for some reason, we keep imagining non-humans as being culturally homogenous. I think it's about time we cast that way of thinking aside. Why the hell would elves or dwarves, or orcs be any less inclined to find differences between one another, than humans would?

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>>49686909
So is this RL Napoleonic Europe or fantasy Napoleonic Europe?

>>49687805
>>49687844
>>49687868
>>49687917
Do porcs. Porcs should make a comeback in fantasy.

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Elves would definitely be the equivalent of greenjackets
(Pic related)

>>49688718
Probably a fantasy Napoleonic world. Why restrict yourself to Europe? The Napoleonic Wars were fought in India and China as well as across colonies in the Americas. We have an entire world to flesh out!

On that note however, my housemate just reminded me of a book series... Temeraire. Napoleonic Wars fought with the addition of dragons serving as living, aerial battleships.

While that might be going a BIT far, the prospect of magical creatures adds a whole new dimension to the setting and warfare, especially as more nations are going to looks skyward, sooner, particularly those poor in fearsome flying creatures. A mix of magic and industrial engineering might make sky-ships, or at least light ones, a possibility!

>>49688167
Instead of large, heavy guns and artillery, the Dwarves would focus heavily on logistics. Due to their physiology a dwarf army on the march will cover less ground within a period of time compared to other races. To get around this their armies would make extensive use of pack animals, horses, carts, and boats. They're also likely to be early adopters of rail transport and make extensive use of repeaters and multi-barrel guns.

This is more WW2, but has anyone heard of the Darkness series by Harry Turtledove? It's a pretty good alternate history fantasy series.

>>49688799
>Why restrict yourself to Europe?
Europe is the only continent that matters.

Nah, just joking. I just thought Europe would be the most immediately relevant location.

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>>49688851
I can see all that, but it'd be somewhat later than the Napoleonic period. Things like the Gatling gun and mitrailleuse wouldn't see use until the 1850s or later. Then again, the Puckle gun is older than that, so maybe the dwarves would adopt some abomination like the Hotchkiss revolving cannon. Who can tell? Besides, it could well vary depending on the dwarvern nation.

We should start actually setting down a world for all this to take place in. Then we can look at races and their relative locations.

Let's start with the broadest possible strokes. Continents. I'm thinking there should be three, or possibly four, with at least one a good distance from the 'old world' to serve as an analogue to the real-world Americas. One could maybe be largely Euro-African, while another, connected by thin land bridges, or archipelagos, would work as the East Asia/India equivalent.

I'm only using real-world places, climates and cultures, for the sake of ease of reference. While it'd be great to come up with entirely unique cultures, let's face it; it's a lot easier to draw from real-life sources.

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I feel like we could use a magic system similar to the one this book series. I really love the concept of the powder mages.

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Elven cossacks anybody?

>>49688975
Explain further

Fuck, I had a cute cenatur in a napoleonic era uniform lying around somewhere in my pics.

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So, who would be the fantasy Prussians?

>>49688948
Let's just go with Europe, except that there are elves and dwarves for some reason. Save even more effort!

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>>49688990
I got you!

Actually, scratch that. It was a WWI centaur.

>>49689000
Humans.

>>49689002
But I like work.

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>>49689016
Or... WWII centaur.

That's even worse. Shit.

>>49688988
>Elven cossacks anybody?

yes...in fact, fuck yes.

>>49689000
Definitely humans. There's no question about it.

>>49688975
Your ideas interest me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

That'd actually be a cool limiting factor for them an explain why elves don't have a crap-ton of front-line mages. Most elves have a little magic, but they don't have enough catalysts for everyone, so only the best get it? Or maybe that'd just raise more questions than answers.

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>>49689016
>>49689031
>WWI
>WWII

Mate, that's something modern/near future. See those (superfluous) mag pouches on his vest? Plus the (useless) M4-style collapsing stock on the MG? Or the (very modern) minigun-style auto-feeding ammo belt?

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>>49689062
>Be Eastern Elf
>Fuck up some brown dwarf sultan's shit
>Fuck these pussy guys north of us, we'll start our own country
>Kill the people we don't like
>OHSHITWE'REWAYINOVEROURHEADS
>Winter Empire to the east, can you help us
>Become warrior class within glorious empire of snow and porcs
>Not going to have to worry about goblin revolutionaries for the next century

>>49689091
THAT'S EVEN FURTHER

>>49689002
Awww, but making up huge settings that are never going to get used is FUN! I like putting in effort to meaningless things!

I mean, why do you think people play 40k?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-4-gLlF0uw

Sooo... Continents... Anyone want to splash together a world map, or should we hash out some basic concepts first? Come on /tg/ let's get shit done!

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>>49689070
I must have her...

sauce?

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Here, have a map.

>>49689138
I'll crack open paint. What dimensions should I use for a world map?

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>>49689139
It's literally at the bottom of the picture, anon.

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>>49689139
Just pics I saved here, senpai.

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>>49689151
and so it is....

>>49688988
Well, in the series, they're are four types of magic, two of which I guess could fall under one but split into two sub-classes.
>Privileged that wield very powerful elemental magic, used to create barriers, to build, or rain down hell on their enemies, but limited to around 300-500m if I remember correctly.
>Powder Mages, which ingest/snort gunpowder to enter their powder trance to become supersoldiers. senses heightened, strength and stamina increased
>While in the trance, they can fire their musket, then burn additional powder on their person to increase range and accurately hit targets up to 1000m
>Redirect the power of gunpowder going off as a concussive blast, or to increase a punch
>Curve the bullet
>Drill a hole through solid surfaces so that their shot can get through
>Sense gunpowder in certain range
>Negate gunpowder from igniting within a certain range that varies from one powder mage to another
>Ignite gunpowder on enemy soldiers to turn them into grenades
>Continuously burn powder to hold aloft many musket balls then launch them at enemies

Typically the trance doesn't last too long, and taking too many hits of powder is detrimental. To combat them, some nobility have introduced air rifles, since powder mages can't do shit against them.

>>49689149
I dunno, maybe 2400 by 2200? I've not really fiddled with paint much for this purpose.

There has to be a world generator online or something, surely..? I mean, going from experience with Civ or Endless Legend's map generators, they're probably shit, but still...

>>49689148
Oh very funny. I've got nothing against Europe-like maps, but I think we can be a bit more creative is all...

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>>49689149
>not using an image program capable of the superior fractal noise method of generating landmasses

>>49689002
>>49688718
>>49688799

I like an entire world, but focusing on just Europe'd be fine to start with.

I'd be down with using a RL map of the world, too. Just fantasizing it up a notch

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I got this...

>>49689148
This map is too unrealistic. Look at thise mountains. Practically designed to act as a natural barrier!

And a boot shape? Ridiculous.

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>>49689264
I'm not a mapmaker, I'll be honest.

>>49689270
We'll focus on Europe once we've got the general shape of the world down.

>>49689264
Holy fucking shit man, that's amazing! Can we get two or three more of those? Then we just slap them on a map, add in an archipelago or two and Bob's your uncle, you have a world! Or at least the coastlines... Forests, mountain ranges, rivers, deserts and so on still need to be drawn in.

Dammit though, it's already half three in the morning. I need to lay my head down. Let's keep this reasonable and civil until morning? Best of luck to everyone; I have a good feeling about things!

>>49689383
What is that, an infantryman for ants?

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>>49689264
>>49689398

Hell yeah, it looks great.

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>>49689383
Better size.

>>49689430
Thank you.

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>>49689430
>>49689440
Another.

We N/a/poleonic fantasy now.

So since Napoleon's army spent sometime in Egypt we should have gun mummies

>>49689464

The Egyptians organize mummies into regiments of the dead, give them armor and a gun, and just let them walk towards the enemy. They get shot up half to hell but just keep going. Then after they reach enemy lines they drop their weapons and throw themselves on them, biting, clawing and beating them to death while the rest of the army moves in behind.

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>>49689464
Yes.

>>49686909
>ctrl+f last thread
>zero results

come on people I just got here and I want to know what I missed

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>>49689508

Last Thread: >>49634217

We're also gonna need vampires.

>>49689508
Honestly, I think much of the worldbuilding in this thread has no basis in the last one at all...

or I might be wrong...

>>49689464
>>49689542
Sentient undead maybe. Gunmummies I'm really not sure on.

Depends if we want a majority-vampiric nation, or just a handful of them. Personally, I'm much more on the side of the latter.

But let's get land masses and the like sorted out first. Plus, races are not homogenous! For instance, there's a multitude of human nations, so why not the same with elves, dwarfs, or orcs, etc.?

So, Orcs.
I was thinking that Orcs have kept the tradition of putting guns on melee weapons, as opposed to putting melee weapons on guns (i.e. bayonets.) Probably often multi-barreled weapons as well. Tactics are to charge at the enemy full throttle, and them both barrels at short range, and then start smashing away. Possibly they also keep using body armor, since they're strong enough to wear armor heavy enough to make a difference.

>>49689599
I like this idea, I'd also add in that they have the biggest, strongest orcs literally carrying slabs of metal as mobile cover for the forlorn-hopes, which in an Orc army, is most of them.

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So suggestions so far:
>Orc Ghurkas
>Pig orcs
>Cossack elves
>Gummies
>Some reference to some magic system in some book series
>Native American elves
>Orcs with gun swords

>>49689599
*give them both barrels, I meant.
>>49689642
Ghurka orcs would probably be just one subset of orcs.

>>49689689
>Ghurka orcs would probably be just one subset of orcs.
Of course.

There would also be pirate slave trader orcs.

>>49689599
>>49689639
Something like Kroot guns.

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Maybe minotaurs are a slave race in agrarian nations. Their supervisors are called bulldozers

>>49689642
How about instead of 'races', the elves, dwarves, humans, orcs, are all just different phenotype, ala shadowrun, where everyone starts as a human, and most likely turns into their parent's race?

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>>49689725
But then we couldn't have porcs or minotaurs.

>>49689740
Yes you can. Just go even further into Shadowrun, and have Porcs be an Orc variant that pops up in Orc cultural groups from a particular part of the world.
Same with Minotaurs, though Shadowrun has them as a variant of Troll.

>>49689725

Nah.

I was thinking like, what if they all just somehow be teleported or something to Earth sometime after the start of the Napoleonic war, and just keep popping up in random spots. I think the Witcher Saga did this to explain why there're monsters everywhere but idk

>>49689797
The issue is then there is basically no reason for different species to actually interact other than a little trade, and would probably interact less given uncanny valley and xenophobia.

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>>49689318
>>49689398
>>49689404

It's honestly really damn simple to do. You just need a program like Photoshop or GIMP. Here's a little tutorial.

>>49689842
There's always religious reasons.

Like thinking the mystery creatures from another world are demons.

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>>49689854
...And here's the sequel.

>>49689642

What should humans be seen as to the other races?

I was kind of thinking "Suicidal horse-bastards".

You can not only persuade a group of humans to run screaming carrying swords at an enemy armed with long pointy things. You can actually persuade other humans to be so obliging as to form ranks, fix bayonets, and just wait there for the charge to hit. And if there's one things that humans seem to like better at than playing red rover with cold steel, it's doing it on the back of a horse.

As for 'bastards' well, any species that engages in such pastimes is going to have its share of them, both "poor-" and "goddamn-" depending if the charge works or not.

>>49690555
>You can not only persuade a group of humans to run screaming carrying swords at an enemy armed with long pointy things. You can actually persuade other humans to be so obliging as to form ranks, fix bayonets, and just wait there for the charge to hit. And if there's one things that humans seem to like better at than playing red rover with cold steel, it's doing it on the back of a horse.
Oh, but couldn't you convince orcs and dwarves to do pretty much the same thing?

And would you be able to convince ANY human to do that? Would levies do that?

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I prefer an alternate history take myself, like the Temeraire novels, rather than going the classical fantasy route. Let's say that in July 1799 a party from Napoleon's Commission des Sciences et des Arts in Egypt dig up a magical version of the Rosetta Stone. Its rediscovery suddenly begins the reintroduction of magic and fantastical creatures into the world, where they had been dormant for millennia. This makes France the first magical superpower, but the knock-on effects immediately begin to spread. Other combatant nations would suddenly discover magic-users and mythical creatures reappearing in their midst. An arms race of sorts begins as all sides start organizing new magical armies, and instead of an industrial revolution we get a magical one.

Don't forget to call on /hwg/'s Napoleonic folder if you need some research material:

https://www.mediafire.com/folder/vh1uqv8gipzo1/Napoleonic

>>49690617

Orcs I can see the charge part, but it's hard to imagine orcs forming a square and holding.

Dwarves I can see holding, but they'll want to have built a wall and emplaced cannon.

I'm also just trying to construct a militarily useful niche, because I don't like the "Humans are the baseline average" approach.

As for any human, that's a very very good question. Is the kind of military discipline something that you can instill into anyone, or is it contingent on culture, temperament, and upbringing?

Questions about human nature aside the entire point of a professional army is to take just about any human in their 20's and turn them into something that can do both. Admittedly, success varies.

>>49690776
>"Humans are the baseline average"
That IS a shit approach pham. Why not be a heretic and just give the humans the best magic. I mean elves have a long life, good health etc. so i don't really think they need superior magic in the grand scheme of things.

I actually like the orc ghurka idea. Most Orc nations could be located in the mountains. This combined with their fanatical fighting spirit makes them really hard to conquer but also makes them excellent auxiliaries if you treat them well.

I am also pretty tired of this dwarves have the best tech trope

>>49690776
>I'm also just trying to construct a militarily useful niche, because I don't like the "Humans are the baseline average" approach.
Well like you said, horse-bastards is a good one. Unlike the other races who hold less of a riding tradition, humans have a history dating back to the age of mounted feudal knights.

>>49690776
>Questions about human nature aside the entire point of a professional army is to take just about any human in their 20's and turn them into something that can do both. Admittedly, success varies.
Arguably, an orc (not a porc) or dwarf could do cav too.

>>49690947
>Arguably, an orc (not a porc) or dwarf could do cav too
>implying porcs aren't the notnativeamericans of this world

>>49690968
>They're not the notnativeamericans
>They're actually the notindians

>>49691023
Nice i like that even better.

Porcs getting raped by sneaky merchant anglo elves. Has potential.

>>49691053
That's-

What? Ew, no. They're-

Actually, do we have to shoehorn them into a historical culture? Can't they do their own thing?

Or be African slavers?

>>49691087
in this situation sometimes its best to leave history as is to avoid offensive steriotypes.

What about hobgoblins? I know, we'll make them Prussian! We have a hobgoblin Otto von Bismark unite the goblin states of Goblinay.

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>>49690947

Yeah, I wasn't thinking "no-one else has cavalry" but more "humans have been fighting with, living with, and breeding these things for 5000 years, and they've been riding them into battle for around 2000 it's a whole thing with them". That other races see as weird and mildly perverse in some respects.

The magic thing is a fair point. I suppose I just like the idea that the human factions still draw from recognizable human military tradition.

Plus I had this song stuck in my head:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7cMcB9na3w

>>49691471
Why the fuck would no one else have horses?

>>49691594

I think they'll have horses. That's not the same thing as being able to field cavalry, and not the same thing as having the kind of military, breeding, and training expertise you need to field shock cavalry on a battlefield.

My reasoning runs like this: Horses are not forest creatures by nature, and they require a lot of fodder, elves will probably have encountered them, through trade and whatever else, but assuming as this thread has that elves are most at home in forests, they're not going to have the kind of extensive network of stables you need to support first rate cavalry.

Similar issues with dwarves. I can see them having pit ponies and beasts of burden. But it would be slightly mad for people who's cities are underground to get big into horses.

Cavalry is expensive; the mountain dwelling hard bastards the orcs seem to be based off of generally have horses, and a tradition of using them in warfare, but they're also typically pretty poor and hardscrabble, so, they just can't afford large bodies of mounted troops.

Or in the case of the orcs, they might have eaten them. That's one theory of why horses were extinct in North America until they were reintroduced from Eurasia.

>>49691658
A lot of nations from mountainous regions fielded extensive cavalry. Likewise with heavily forest regions. Hell, Vietnamese kingdoms fielded both horse archers and heavy cavalry.

>>49691721

Fair point. To be clearer with the orcs the focus is on being relatively poor and disorganized rather than just terrain. It's a lack of both resources and the ability to organize the resources that limits development of a cavalry tradition.

>>49689148
Who the fuck designed that coast? a gods damned alien?

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>>49689642
>Elves
>Anything other than incredibly dandy Frenchmen
And when I say "incredibly dandy", I mean the kind of people who are overdressed even at a dandy convention.

>>49692750
That's a formal costume worn on special occasions and not everyday dress
The Neapolitans under Murat were by far the most overdressed militarily, by your reasoning they should be the elves

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>>49692771
Not saying I disagree, but...
https://books.google.nl/books?id=dO7tAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA254&lpg=PA254&dq=Napoleon+%22these+troops+are+no+better+than+none+at+all%22&source=bl&ots=U4M7BdoSwr&sig=L497FXzPMbPcBKcq4K7CdZtv3-M&hl=nl&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiUsu7d8crPAhVLwBQKHZUfDWcQ6AEIKDAB#v=onepage&q=Napoleon%20%22these%20troops%20are%20no%20better%20than%20none%20at%20all%22&f=false
>I am sorry you have so many Neapolitan troops: you must be aware that as far as I am concerned these troops are no better than none at all
-Napoleon to his brother Joseph (at the time king of Naples)

>>49692817
Oh they were fucking awful in the field, yes. That's because Murat spent the whole time playing dress up and never actually training them.

>>49692833
But Napoleon wrote this letter to Joseph, when Murat was still marshal of France (he'd only become king of Naples after Joseph transferred to Spain). And wasn't Murat himself known as a pretty courageous man who was constantly on the front lines?

>>49692842
Murat was intensely courageous yes, and also a total fop. They were bad enough but just got worse under him

See this is what happens when you try combine racial stereotypes, pop history, and a D&D mindset; it's all very silly. Stuff like "French are elves because they dress good!" just doesn't work.

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>>49692852
>They were bad enough but just got worse under him
>They got worse than "better than nothing"
This suddenly became a HFY/Elf Hate thread

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Any ideas for dwarfs/gnomes/short-smart-grudgey-people

I still dont think squeezing generic fantasy races into Napoleonic factions is the way to go about this.

Instead I propose we create specific races or creatures based on mythology or folklore of the time.

There are a LOT of interesting creatures and races that could be made from them that aren't the generic orcs/goblin/elves type:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_legendary_creatures_by_type

http://listverse.com/2012/10/15/10-creatures-in-scandinavian-folklore/
(Ignore the Dwarves/Elves entry)

The addition of magic could also "fantasize" the Napoleonic period. Scrying to work out your enemies positions, messaging between commanders. Perhaps each commander has an appointed mage with a shit ton of "Message" spells (to use D&D magic as an example) that allows for better communication.

Invisible units could also be very useful in the right place...

>>49689148
The fuck is up with those mountains in the northeastern corner? What is this, Mordor?

UK
>English humans
>Elvish Welsh
>Dwarf Scots
>Irish orcs :^)

Humans make up the line
Welsh-elves make good green coats/skirmishers
Dwarf-Scots make good "highlanders"
and Irish orcs make poor rebellious little shits


Alternatively you could focus on the revolutionary aspect of the Napoleonic Wars

Have the nobility be ancient Elf monarchs ruling over human majority populations

You get haughty elves and make Napoleon the first human Monarch fighting for equality

You could go a bit /pol/ and make dwarves/gnomes Jews and have them make up a strong merchant class with a strong base in the low countries and Italy, you'd need to make them seafaring Dwarves however.
>ywn massacre the knife ear royal family of France in a bloody revolution

>>49693064
>Race as social class rather than nationality
I like it

>>49687565
Cause you get to wreck not-swedens empire and make your blood their ruler.

>>49687687
Also dwarves move unhindered by armor and more gear, defeating the biggest reason full plate went out of buisness.

Dwarves might not be bullet dodging, super accurate elves but they have crazy endurance and real tricky.

And I'm awake. Getting my hands on a copy photoshop that doesn't come complete with malware is proving harder than I thought... Guess I'll just get myself started on a timeline or something.

Shall we say that the conventional calendar starts at the founding of the first city, by the first dwarvern kingdom, some 4000ish years ago? Or should there be another event that re-defined the calendar into BCE and CE?

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OP here

>>49694249

Yeah that sounds nice.

>>49693064

Yes, yes I love it.

>is heavily Irish

The "London" of the setting is a vast melting pot of all cultures from across the isles.

>>49693011

I love this idea too. I feel making it a tiny bit less-generic would add to its appeal maybe?

>>49690756
That's actually quiet an interesting pitch.

>>49688988
Maybe Dark Elves? Far less dignified than regular/High/Wood Elves, also more cruel and prone to violence.

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>>49695350
They're in Africa.

>>49695350
So Hungarians?

I can see austria hungary as the "uses evil races as auxillaries" faction.

>>49695455
Nah m8

Austria and Britain ar the multi race empires

The Turks are the evil race empire enslaving and warping other races into Janissary armies

>>49695791
im talking more about using non traditionally good races as auxillaries, just like austria hungary used muslims as auxillaries while beeing christian.

>>49694249
Still can't provide a map of this world yet, I'm afraid, but that's no reason not to start on the timeline! I know the main focus is Napoleonic, but the events leading to the modern world are just as important.

Contribute whatever you like, but let's try and keep it fairly chronological, so it's easier to compile later, okay?

Year 0 (aprox 4000 before present day): The first city is founded by a large dwarf tribe, in a regularly-flooded river valley, following the tribe's discovery of vast mineral wealth in the region. Unlike later dwarvern cities, the settlement lacks the typical terraced mountain citadel construction and primarily obtains its minerals by panning the river for them. The city of Elix Kanzahm is ruled by the high judge (who would later become king) and the priesthood, who had the distinction of being the first metalworkers, primarily using copper.

0-410: Elix Kanzahm expands its influence, subsuming nearby human and dwarf tribes into its kingdom. The kingdom also faces constant warfare on its northern border, from nomadic orc raiding parties and warbands.

260: Panning for copper is proving insufficient, forcing Elix Kanzahm to sink the first mines into the nearby hills and mountains.

300-400: Agriculture spreads and further kingdoms and trade networks begin to develop.

490: Elixian armies suffer heavy losses in battle against an orc warband. These losses are exaggerated in panicked reports and various client cities use the chance to break away from the kingdom. Elix Kanzahm is sacked by a human army, its forces being too far afield to return and break the siege in time. With its capitol ransacked and its armies decimated, the first kingdom crumbles into various smaller states.

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>>49688074
>we really need a map up in this house
Submission for approval. I also have a version without the latitude and longitude lines, and one without the mountains.

>>49696997
I feel like the Eurasia landmass should be larger. Looks good though.

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>>49697011
>Eurasia
I can only assume you mean the Eastmost one? Well, we don't need to hew that closely to real life, necessarily.

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>>49697101

>>49697302
I'm not 100% on board with the design, but I can see it working out

Still keepin' the basic earth-like orientation, huh?

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>>49697101
>>49696997
>>49697302
>Alabama is a strait now
Shit map, redo.

>>49696625
I think an important question is why the founding of the first city is Year 1. Was Elix Kanzahm such a powerful influence even after 4000 years that people still use its foundation as a reference point? Isn't there some other event or culture of greater influence, such as the Not!HRE's foundation?

>>49697543
Basic orientation? I suppose, although the setting I originally planned with this map didn't borrow 1-to-1 from RL earth, so this world doesn't have to either.

>>49697674
The South shall glubglubglub!

Think of that island more like a large breakaway from a larger bayou region.

>>49697674
There are several reasons actually.
>Dwarves carved their records and calendars into stone and their conservative culture means their language has only changed in 4000 years, as much has English has since Shakespeare, ensuring an accurate record can be maintained. Other calendars may exist, but the fact remains that the dwarf one is the most accurate and universal, leading to its near-universal adoption by the year 3100
>Elix Kanzahm was the first organised city to arise, spreading agriculture and leading to the rise of kingdoms that copied its organisational style
>The kingdom ruled more-or-less unchallenged by anyone, for 300 years and then endured nearly another 200. This is only roughly three generations of dwarfs, true, but to humans, the most populace race on the planet, it is a time span roughly as long as the Roman Empire!

Then again, there could well be another, closer event. Got anything in mind?

On a side-note, has anyone noticed how most medieval games tend to start in 1066? Why not at the founding of the HRE, or the crowning of Charlemagne? Those were much more far-reaching events than William's conquest of Britain, surely?

>>49698194
>Then again, there could well be another, closer event. Got anything in mind?
Not really. you have some good reasons.

>>49698194
>On a side-note, has anyone noticed how most medieval games tend to start in 1066? Why not at the founding of the HRE, or the crowning of Charlemagne? Those were much more far-reaching events than William's conquest of Britain, surely?
Britain is the only country that matters before the Declaration of Independence.

>>49698194
>1066
People who make strategy games are either based in England or massive Anglaboos.

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>>49687431
>Elves
>using napoleanic weapons and tactics

So how, pray tell, would they manufacture their rifles and powder? Would they cut down hundreds of trees, to fuel the fires of their nitraries? Would they rake the earth and sacrifice hundreds of mer in deadly pre-industrial mines, to obtain iron for proper rifle barrels?

No, they wouldn't. They don't have the raw bodies and the will to take take apart their own environment to overcome men. They'd be like the Maori, the Apache, or one of a dozen African tribes in the 19th century: fearsome, but overcome through logistics, production, and manpower.

>>49698520
>Would they cut down hundreds of trees, to fuel the fires of their nitraries? Would they rake the earth and sacrifice hundreds of mer in deadly pre-industrial mines, to obtain iron for proper rifle barrels?
>No, they wouldn't.
You don't know that.

>They don't have the raw bodies and the will to take take apart their own environment to overcome men. They'd be like the Maori, the Apache, or one of a dozen African tribes in the 19th century: fearsome, but overcome through logistics, production, and manpower.
Unless they have the raw bodies and the will to take take apart their own environment. Turns out fictional races aren't set in stone.

>>49698520
How many different nations and tribes of mankind are there, even within the same broad race?

Now why would you think that a whole species would be culturally homogeneous?

If there's room for industrial humans and tattooed, half-naked tribes, then there is also room for industrial elves and naked, tree-worshippers.

Throughout mankind's history, if you tried to generalise us, you'd be wrong about at least half of us. Now you've just done the same for another species and it's equally foolish. People ARE partly shaped by genetics, it's true, but the much greater part comes from their culture, which bends, flexes, grows and changes in response to those around them. If anything, making the elves static and medieval, in a world where everyone else has industrialised, would be even more unbelievable.

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>>49687345
Humans would have their own chosen men too and they would still out number the elves'

>>49687812
Depends on how the battle is playing out, Foot lines to overwhelm then have your light infantry go in

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>>49688988

You guys are coming up with stuff that's way more interesting than whatever I tried to star in the last thread.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1lHn_ulWBBei-Yt1FJqUmEYE8oXUUhkTrh-9CN6pN0Uw/edit?usp=drive_web

>>49698671
>Humans would have their own chosen men too and they would still out number the elves'
Ah, but with their equipment equalised and the elven doctrines based entirely around light infantry and mobile divisions, it still wouldn't be even. Why do you think that when weapons are equal at a medieval level, elves are considered the equal of humans, in spite of inferior numbers? In fact, if anything, modern doctrines would only exaggerate the elven advantages!

>>49698704
Hey, it's better than bickering over everything!

>>49698848
Don't downplay yourself! All input is valued! Hell at this stage, we're still building the timeline and considering world maps that would direct the geopolitical situation!

Speaking of which, as no-one else has stepped up, I guess I'd better keep going with the timeline a little, huh? I just didn't want to turn this into a one-man masturbation session.

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>>49686909
Incidentally, I just drew this the other day.

>>49698901
Add what you have to the Google doc. That's why it's there.

>>49698953
I am intrigued, and wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

>>49698953
What am I even looking at?

>>49689148
2/10 would not explore

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>>49699000
No newsletter, sorry. I'm just anon. Got a fair bit in the way of maps, though.

>>49698901
>Hey, it's better than bickering over everything!
I honestly posted that just for the poorly photoshopped elf cossack.

>>49698555
>>49698622
good points, but the genre of fantasy often portrays elves as a weaker but more dexterous race with a low fertility rate.
The industrial era had an unbelievable amount of mortality rate, whether it was in the deadly mines, the dangerous factories, or the disease-ridden cities. The elves, as they are typically portrayed, would suck in those environments.

>>49692750
I could see France be a dwarf AND elf nation.

>>49699417
I'd say that'd just mean the elves would take more care and be a bit less productive than humans, or mesh magic with technology to make things easier for themselves.

Keep in mind, once you introduce fairly available healing magic, then mortality drops significantly, even when you don't account for a major focus on medical advances.

Anyway... More timeline bollocks. Got myself a mapping program too. Sooner or later, we'll have to strawpoll these things.

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>>49690617
>And would you be able to convince ANY human to do that? Would levies do that?

Considering history and how much training the French and British armies had and their general battle tactics.

It's actually easier to have a mob of dudes charge at the enemy than have a lines of dudes hold still and give fire.

>>49700127
>>49696625
370: The first emperor of the Salvine dynasty unites various minor kingdoms into a grand empire and installs an imperial bureaucracy to oversee its operation. They are geographically isolated from Elix Kanzahm and have only light trade connections and thus are largely un-affected by its fall.

490-570: Surrounding kingdoms conquer or subsume former client cities of the defunct Elixian kingdom

570: Threatened human cities in a broad delta region unite and consolidate their rule under supposedly divinely-descended king. Together, they are more than a match for the successor kingdoms and begin to plot their own empire.

640: Amid rampant corruption and paralysis at court, an elven political group seize the capitol of the Salvine dynasty and murder the Emperor in a bloody coup. Far from granting them control of the empire however, the nation fragments into five warring states, all claiming the Imperial throne.

643: After a year-long siege, the elves are forced to retreat from the imperial capitol and the city is lost to one of the warring states. It will continue to change hands many time, until the rise of the next true dynasty.

>>49700618
Okay, I'm starting to realise the limitation of not having a map... Or narrowing down what races exist...

For the curious, the Salvine dynasty is an analogue to early China, while the human kingdom and successor kingdoms are equivalent to Egypt or Mesopotamian cities, while Elix Kanzahm is a rough analogue to Babylon.

Does anyone have a better way to present the timeline perhaps? Maybe snapshots of various continents in various time periods?

>>49699198
Could you describe the setting behind the first map, then? I'm especially curious about the fact that God apparently died in the Yom Kippur War.

>>49700647
>Okay, I'm starting to realise the limitation of not having a map

>>49696997
>>49697101
>>49697302
Well, I posted these earlier. If you wanted something specific changed I could see what I could do, or just whip up something wholecloth. We looking at more islands, large landmasses, or what?

>>49700965
They're one possibility. I just want to see if any more show up. I'm working on one myself. Then we'll see what one everyone thinks is best.

Let's keep it clean of mountains and decoration at first though, yeah? If we want it to look realistic, that shit's going to take some real work to get right...

What races inhabit this world? We know there's humans, orcs, dwarfs and elves, but are there any others, even in geographically isolated areas? What about intelligent but utterly un-civilizable races?

I'll just go right ahead and say I think we should probably keep halflings and gnomes out of this. Just because Tolkien had hobbits doesn't make them a good idea everywhere... If you can think of a good argument otherwise, I'm all ears.

What about demons and angels, or other winged folk? And especially what about dragons, griffins and other magical creatures who don't tend to form civilizations, even when they are intelligent enough to do so?

Keep in mind, every new race and magical difference from earth that is added, the more it's going to effect the development of history and culture. Trade is hard enough when you just have to worry about bandits, storms and packs of jackals. Imagine if caravans could be carried off by wyverns, or ships sunk by krakens!

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>>49700737
No explanation there, either. I just had this impulsive urge to make a cool planescape setting and after writing in the Hyperborea was conquered by Napoleon in 1812, various other contemporary events percolated into the picture. The map stands alone as it is and doesn't have an established setting, but after doing the mapand looking back on my work, man, I would GM the shit out of a game in that setting if I had the time to GM a second game.

>>49698953
>Conquered by Napoleon, 1814
One multiversal constant.

My sides are in the shadow of the beast.

>>49699417
>but the genre of fantasy often portrays elves as a weaker but more dexterous race with a low fertility rate.
You mean DnD does.

Christ, making a map is taking longer than I thought. It's coming though, don't worry about that. I'll get back to the timeline once I've submitted it for consideration.

In the meantime, I have to sleep. My eye feels like it's about to start bleeding. Still loving what's been done so far! Keep contributing!

Early dwarven history includes fighting the literal neanderthal barbarians that flooded into the region. After the cavemen are displaced by humans, dwarves realize the Neanderthals were displaced by something worse than them that was heading south, so they trade with humans so they would fight for them.

>Napoleonic Wars
>Nothing about what you're doing is Napoleonic

The French Indian Wars is a better place to find what you're looking for.

You could make "the new world" populated by one race and have several other races colonising it.

Much easier to explain tech and tactical differences between races.

REEEEEE NEXT TIME ASK /HWG/ YOU PLEBS

>>49704185
Fuck generals.

>>49699050
A poor facsimile of the 2/3e and 4e cosmologies mashed together.

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>>49692933
Two dwarf nations, 'swiss' dwarfs' and 'dutch' dwarfs

swiss dwarfs
>conservative/isolationist
>hidden mountain fortresses
> war-like youths hire themselves out as mercenaries
>rely on artillery, booby-traps, ambushes
>soldiers still wear armor, even if it's ceremonial at this point

dutch dwarfs
>expansionist
>rich as Croesus
>live in coastal cliffs/islands, small colonies all over the world
>prefer to fight at sea
>ships are slow but tough, maybe like korean turtle ships
>technologically advanced

>>49704185
yeah seems more like a "lets flavor generic fantasy with some fancy hats and muskets" rather than seriously trying to flesh out the Napoleonic period with fantastical elements.

A period with some much interesting stuff going on, I thought would be a good excuse to get away from generic fantasy races

>>49687573
>historical humans built cities outside forests
>that means fictional elves, defined in part by blending their settlements seamlessly into forests, must do the same thing
Anon. Think about this.

The "New World" is just the Underdark equivalent. Makes sense: go down, get gold, come back up. New digging technology makes it possible!

>>49698520
>They'd be like the Maori...fearsome, but overcome through logistics, production, and manpower.

Unless you are referring to a specific set of conflicts with a small minority of Maori tribes that had signed the Treaty of Waitangi 20 years previously making them British subjects, then this is not what happened.

The political and economic power of the tribal Maori was broken in most part by their eagerness to adopt western and more specifically British customs and laws (which the settler government deliberately wrote to screw the tribes out of as much land as possible).

>>49686909
How is this different from Temeraire?

>>49705895
For now, the consensus seems to be that it's taking place in a fantasy world, rather than our own plus dragons.

Not gonna deny there aren't serious similarities however.

>>49686909
Does this mean the evil dark lord of the world is Fantasy Napoleon?

>>49705895
Temeraire doesn't have magic, just dragons.

>>49708082
Shouldn't he be the Hero of Legend fighting the combined armies of the Dark?

>>49708101
Depends, is this heroic fantasy or high fantasy?

Maybe the Elves are just a bunch of enclaves left over from a massive war in ages past, and are perfectly content with this. No annoying politics, no wars against humans, just sitting on your magical farm, boinking your hot elven wife, and spending your time talking to your nieghbours in conversations that can take years. They're generally manufacturing hubs, with human raw rescources and labor entering, and the elves refining these things to sell to other races. Humans sell the Elves raw rescources, and the elves refine and sell it back. Cotton for clothes, iron and steel for gun barrels and gems to be turned into jewelry.

Elven nations are politically savvy, and will side with the strongest human empire around them, offering them preferential trade and treatment in exchange for protection. But if another human empire gets into a war with them, the Elves have no problem switching sides the moment they're in risk of falling under attack.

They are not weak though. Each elven enclave is surrounded by thick walls, is entirely self-sufficient in a pinch, and protected both by its massive population, and large mercenary armies.

>>49708384
Imagine a Human empire realizing that the Underdark exists. Imagine the Dark elves deciding to expand topside.
Imagine this happening at the same side

This could either end in bloodshed or in grudging cooperation.

Thats what i like about setting ideas like this.
You can flip normal politics on its head.
Expanding borders suddenly isnt a north/south east / west axis anymore.


Btw: Drawfag here, working on something for this right now. gonna take a bit tho.

>>49709092
Maybe the High Elven enclaves are built on top of roads/portals that lead into the Underdark, and they've expanded into it. The humans -think- they control the world and the elves are just a small enclave. While the High Elves in fact control a massive realm that outsizes any human one, have monopolized access to it, and are busy using building an army with which to retake the surface.

>>49709346
Which is how Dark Elves came to be? High elf exiles to the underdark?

>>49709395
Or the High Elves are -their- exiles. People who are a bit weird and choose to live on the surface. The Dark Elves let them go, but they still keep an eye on their kin.

So when a human nation conquers an elven city, a Legion of Dark Elves marches up from the deeps, and as a punishment, grind the cities of the responsible nation into dust, before dissapearing.

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>Dark elf empire

So when are we gonna get to the Napoleonic part of all this?

>>49709946
>>49709549

>>49709395
Yeah, I was thinking that as well... I mean working out the history is all well and good, but surely we should be focusing on modern developments, national ideologies, politics, industry, trade, colonies and armies?

Still working on that map btw someone pls kill me I have to do three of these continents and then slap them on the map in a way that makes sense..!

>>49709946
What if there's a clash between the enlightenment ideals of humans living in human nations, and those living under elder-race rule?

For example, a human empire with revolutionary zeal after killing their royal family marching on a Dwarven kingdom because it's a kingdom.

But the Dwarves are very much about honor and loyalty, and take their subjects very seriously. So while there are a lot of humans living as agricultural workers in Dwarven lands, their treatment is much better than early factory workers. With the "Protect your peasants" and "Look after them" being taken pretty seriously.

Or hell, what about a Dwarven Revolution against the guild system and the ancient aristocracy that have been oppressing the lower classes for too long? Maybe the revolution starts in a Dwarven Kingdom.

Dwarf Napoleon?

>>49686909
I'm seeing a lot of cool stuff here but I got one big question. Where the dragons at?

>>49710371
That has yet to be decided. I'm certain they should be a not-insignificant part of the setting though.

>>49710176
See now THIS is more like it! That's what I'm talking about with a Napoleonic setting!

Pick a nation and a time and write some history man! Or better yet, help make a map. We don't even know what races are going to be present in this setting yet. So far we know for sure that there's
Humans, Elves, Dwarfs and Orcs
No bloody gnomes or halflings please..!

But beyond that, there could be four-armed dudes, centaurs, goblins, demons, angels or anything of the like! We're not even sure what cultures, much less the races that compose them, will be present in the modern end of the timeline.

>>49710371
Dragon dragoons?

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>>49710723
Pic related.

So I was thinking, have a bbeg Notpoleon that keeps on coming back, like Waterloo happening every century. He's are like Sauron, but not aesthetically. Maybe a romantic or Enlightenment vibe to his and his force's design.

>>49710533
What if we do -good- and -serious- gnomes. No wacky stupid antics, but a race of small inventive craftsmen that are fiercely united together by the dangers abroad. They're some of the nicest people you'll ever meet, and they will lay down on barbed wire for their allies. They are also the most militarised race in the setting, as they need everyone to protect their realm, which is deep in Orcish lands. Their technology is not wacky steampunk, instead, it's just factories and industry. They live in an isolated mountain-range in a series of small holds, each connected via tunnels and the first train-lines in the world.

During a massive ork invasion of their lands, the Gnomish realms were attacked by just a small contingent of the Orkish army sent to attack them. The Gnomes instead of staying in their castle, sallied out to meet them. This was before gunpowder had truly been established, and the Orks laughed at the sight.

But the Gnomes had brought the largest force of artillery and guns ever seen so far, at four-hundred artillery guns, and two-hundred thousand riflemen. The Orks charged right into volley after volley of explosive shot and cannister rounds. While this was happening, the Gnomish Riflemen fired constant volleys into the advancing orks, taking out even more of them with expert headshots.

When the Orks finally neared the Gnomish Lines, they formed a circle formation inside thick pike-walls that skewered the relatively unarmored orcs, while placing their riflemen on a hill that had been chosen as the site of battle. While the orks tried to get through the pikemen, the Gnomish artillery crews kept lobbing mortar shells into the crude orkish archers and siege engines, taking out the Orkish ranged advantage.

The battle was long and bloody, with fully half the Gnomish army dying in the battle, but taking out five times that many orcs. And allowing the anti-orkish coalition to regroup their forces.

Cont?

>>49710533
I'll get to writing Once I get back to my computer.

>>49710723
i prefer Dragons to be more Shadowrun esque.
Their time is over, much like the old monarchies are drawing to a close (well, historically speaking).

They like to pull the stings from behind, i would say Dragoons are ofthen sworn to them or have some form of connection to them.
Dragons are still immenseley powerfull and intelligent. However in these more modern times their role has changed drastically.

As for Dragoons: Lizardmen from the past that ride Dinosaurs (ill explain that better i swear)

>>49710857
Wait a second, this nation of small mountain holds, and obviously not a terrible lot of population since it ain't prime farming land up high, could cough up an army of over two hundred fucking thousand men? Both sides combined at Waterloo didn't manage two hundred thousand.

You're going to need a big damn hill for them to stand on.

>When the Orks finally neared the Gnomish Lines

And there were enough orcs to survive the typhoon of iron and lead unleashed by that army and its artillery for long enough to make it to the gnomish lines? Long enough to describe it as them finally getting there? And that's was just a small contingent of the orc army? Going by your numbers we have over half a million dead orcs at the end, and that's without much opportunity for the gnomes to ride down the orcs as they fled, meaning the orc army is unlikely to have suffered all that great a loss relative to its size.

How bloody immense are armies here? What the fuck do they feed all these soldiers?

>>49710857
If you want a bunch of disciplined, short lovers of machines and industry, I say go for a different culture of dwarfs... Further...

>Gunpowder not truly established
>Gnomes with artillery and rifles
I... Don't think you quite get the massive gap between the first gunpowder technology (rockets and cannon that had a tendency to blow up) and rifles and artillery. If the Gnomes were that advanced, then while the rest of the world is Napoleonic, they'd be in the fucking 1950s!

I really fucking hate gnomes and halflings... They've always just felt like cut-price dwarfs to me, with no place being anything other than a footnote in history.

>>49710957
Could be a Dragon Princes type deal? The Dragoons used to ride dragons and smaller drakes, but as time went by and their numbers dwindled, they became a mobile cavalry force?

Or maybe riders of winged beasts still serve as nations' air corps, while some ruler, trying to evoke the majesty and power of the dragons, called his mounted gunners 'dragoons' and the name spread?

I'd prefer if dragons weren't sentient. More like giant dogs than beast kings. I feel like they don't do that enough anymore.

>>49711031
My bad. Didn't really think numbers through that much. How does ten-thousand, against fifty-thousand orcs sounds? The Orks aren't an invading army, and more like a mass people migration. The Gnomes do breed like rabbits, so they do outnumber most foes.

What if they instead manage to inflict equal casualties(Which is a big thing for Gnomes) by sending out -everything- they had.

>>49711059
Not established as in, not everyone else has begun using them -in bulk-. This battle
would be the thing that proved artillery and cannons were the definitive way to go. Think Ferguson rifles, not Civil war era guns.

I just like Gnomes when done as a friendly and happy race, that's always upbeat about everything. Unlike the Dwarves who are often grumpy and depressed.

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>>49711164
So kinda like this then?

Actually i could get behind that... I mean it's still a fucking terrifying force and if it's as smart as a wolf, you can get animals that are sometimes so clever, they become near-legendary to hunters and the communities they prey on.

>>49711175
That still puts them two-fifty to three hundred years ahead of anyone else! Pike-and-shot formations were already being employed in the late 1400s!

I don't mind the idea of a smol race of people who are happy and friendly. I genuinely don't. But surely that's a cultural thing? I mean you have races of humans more disposed towards rotundity or hairlessness; why not just make gnomes a different dwarf race, the same way humans have different skin colours? There's possibly a place for gnomes, but I think they'd probably be better as a racial minority.

>>49711164
Speaking of dogs, What giant dog mounts?

>be human colonist
>set out to begin a new life away from industrial cities with your family

>built a homestead in the wilderness
>all is well, local orc tribes have been driven off years before

>hear rumours of Orcs in the area
>not to worried, we'll lick these sub-human beasts!
>They don't even know what guns are!

>Plowing the field when suddenly
>warhorn.gramerphone

>Ohshit.painting

>grab musket
>it worked last time
>see Orcs
>howling in their feral tounge
>distain for savages

>shots go over head

>fuck

Semi modern Orcs would be pretty good.
Especially if the humans considered them like Africans.

They would be pretty terrifing