MTG Legacy General

Common Legacy - Decks You Should Prepare to Face
>Miracles
>Delver variants (Grixis, Izzet, BUG, RUG)
>ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)
>Death and Taxes
>Eldrazi Stompy
>Shardless BUG
>Lands

Uncommon Legacy - Decks You Should Know About
>LED Dredge
>Reanimator
>Infect
>Stoneblade
>Burn
>TES (The Epic Storm)
>Elves
>Painter
>Maverick
>4-Color Loam
>Nic Fit
>Sneak n Show

Rare Legacy - Decks You May See On Occasion
>Enchantress
>MUD
>Goblins
>Merfolk
>High Tide
>Aluren
>Food Chain
>12 Post
>Belcher
>Pox Control
>Dragon Stompy
>Tezzerator
>Sneak n Breach
>Stax (White or Black)
>Deadguy Ale

Mythic Legacy - Decks You'll See Once a Year
>Doomsday Fetchland Tendrils (DDFT)
>Cheerios
>Nourshing Lich
>Sea Stompy
>Spanish Inquisition
>Monoblue Omnitell
>Parfait
>The Cure (Kavu Predator + False Cure)

>>49666055
>>Delver variants (Grixis, Izzet, BUG, RUG)
>>Shardless BUG
The terms are Sultai and Temur.

>>49666043
I also wish Landstill was viable. What I'd really like to see is a superfriends deck.

>>49666055
I'm insulted.

>>49666105
I think you need to leave.

>>49666127
>I also wish Landstill was viable.

favorite build? mine was
http://sales.starcitygames.com/deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=20916

or a later version (edicts and disenchant replaced with better shit, crucible too)

Maindeck stifle was the fucking tech though.

>>49666232
I wasn't playing Legacy at the time, so I haven't looked over the builds too much, I just like the idea. It's like a weird form of Stax where you kind of make them lock themselves out.

>>49666055
I think that instead of Sea Stompy on Mythic Legacy it should be Non-Dragon/Eldrazi Stompy or Stompy Variants. This way it includes all other kinds of Stompy.

>>49666043
I'd like to go back to the good old days before thalia was printed. I'd lose lab maniac but my deck is just fine without it. Not that I have a huge problem with thalia in particular but in my mind it marks the point where wotc decided storm was bad nofun notallowed.

Ps my phone keeps trying to turn 'thalia' into 'thalidomide' send help

>>49666290
Is Sea Stompy what they call Faerie Stompy now, since that deck never had any faeries?

I mean the deck with City of Traitors (when it was cheap), Sea Drake (when it was expensive), Chrome Mox, and Jitte.

>>49666295
>sphere of resistance
>thorn of amethyst
>Trinisphere
>chalice
It was there all along.

>>49666295
it marked the point where WotC decided that white weenie creatures should be prison/lock pieces.

>>49666290
Yeah really it's non-eldrazi stomp without moon effects. There's not really a good concise descriptor. Like you could make mOno green snake stompy with chalice and sosuke''s summons and what wins you the game isn't the snakes but the chalices/trinispheres (but not eldrazi or blood moons)

>>49666309
>>49666340
Yeah burn guy gets it. Trinispheres can't attack. Thalia marks the point when wotc decided that locks should also be clocks. You used to be able to beat prison Decks by simply laying lands until you draw your hurkyll''s recall and then kill them. But thalia doesn't let you sit back like that.

>>49666043
> OP with Standstill
> I still play and lose with Standstill erry week

>>49666453
Landstill is also notably missing from our deck list.

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>>49666295
>Not liking best waifu
Save queen of the format

Fairly new to legacy. Is Lands just thespians depths?

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>>49666527
I think you've got your shit waifu confused for best waifu.

>>49666610
it runs that combo, but when people say "lands" they're referring to the deck that runs gamble, life from the loan, and exploration. that as opposed to the list that runs into the north, Sylvaner scrying, urborg, and vampire hexmage - "turbo depths"

>>49666654
>Phyrexiafag
>Liking non-human shit
plz OG innistrad block best waifu block

>>49666770
>anno domini 2016
>not wanting a mech-goth alien queen to dominate you

Come back when your taste improves.

>>49666989
>mech-goth alien queen
More like raw chewed steak in porcelain

>>49666127
Demon Stompy is fucking alright

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>>49667079
Angelstompy all the way

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>>49667145

Fuck all ya'll, Pegasus Stompy all the way.

>>49667004
I like my women like i like my steak,...........................RARE.

>>49667577
I like my women like I like my pets... domestic and caring

>>49667591
I like my women like I like my pets... dogs

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>>49667618
Who needs actual Legacy discussion anyways, amirite

>>49667643
We're just keeping the thread bumped. Doing our civic duty.

>>49667667
Not like I have anything better to do anyways. Slammed on the highway trying to get away from Matthew.

>>49667680
That sucks. Any concerns about getting out in time? Is your lgs going to be ok?

>>49667709
Just getting away from the Orlando area and heading back to my parent's house toward the west. My LGS should be okay, it's up on a hill. Hoping the wind shear will pretty much knock the power out of Matthew's sails.

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>>49663054
Sorry for late reply, but I settled for W/u
I mainly took inspiration from your list, but I added some personal flavor to it as well.
Will post once it gets here

Someone gimme a reaction face that shows mfw I lurk in these threads, but I live in backwater hodunk nowhere and all we have is standard or modern.

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>>49668081

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>>49668081

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>>49668081

Last time Prison anon told me that he brewed some Quad Laser Bridge whatever deck for maximum use of Koth and Chandra. What is that deck ? Never heard of it and nobody replied.

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>>49668081

I feel your pain. My local only gets 6-8 people most weeks, and we keep having Modern qualifiers and prereleases that clash with Leg Day.

Pic semi-related.

>>49666043
I long for the wild west days of Legacy. The formats gotten a lot more stale now than when I started playing. I want to go back to brew city, and not every top 8 being 28/32 brainstorms.

I would like to go back to 08-09, or basically any time before Mystical Tutor got banned. The creatures they started printing after then are fucking retarded. Whoever thought Griselbrand and Emrakul were OK design is an idiot.

>>49668760

There's a neverending supply of really awesome creatures that are completely obsolete because they printed Tarmogoyf alone.

I can handle bad design, but when it's bad design that's painfully apparently pushing Green and White because they want the game to be accessible to people who aren't skilled enough to learn how to cantrip, that's a problem.

I actually find myself in the awkward position of being unable to play Modern because the staples are so wildly different from the Legacy ones—not because they're all newer cards, but because all the top-flight newer cards are banned in Modern.

I was talking to a friend not too long ago about how Green is the Blue of Modern. Because when you take out the utility of cards like Ponder and Preordain and you don't get half-decent stack interaction outside of Spell Pierce, all that's left to hold a deck together is mana acceleration and "value creatures."

And Green's got better drawing power than blue does, too. Only without the decisionmaking required for good cantrips. Joy.

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>>49668670
From memory it's something like this. It's not very tuned, but I think there's something there. Bridge is pretty good against Sneak and Show, Eldrazi and helps you not die to random creatures. Planeswalkers tend to be great against miracles too. If you want to sleeve it up and see how it fares let me know.

16 Lock Pieces:
4 Chalice
4 Blood Moon
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Ensnaring Bridge

18 Kill Conditions:
4 Koth of the Hammer
4 Chandra
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Magma Jet
2 Fiery Confluence

26 Mana Sources
4 Simian Spirit Guide
10 mountains
4 City
4 Tomb
4 Chrom Mox

>>49668908
I think I'd use Sudden Shock for Infect instead of Magma Jet. What do you think ? I can't play legacy right now (same night as my working night) so I'll try to do a modern version and tell you how it went. Not as good because of mana, but I'll still test it out in the next week/weeks. Thanks Prison Guy.

>>49668869
What if they unbanned mystical tutor? That would be safe, right?

>>49668869
While cantrips are decision intensive, I believe that playing a non-blue deck is just as difficult. Mulligan decisions need to be significantly more disciplined, and during games you will often have significantly less information to make decisions with. I've found sequencing, mulliganing, and creating a game plan in Death and Taxes to be one of the more difficult decision trees to navigate

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People complaining about Thalia GOT must be new considering this guy was around forever.

>>49669242
Except 3 mana is a lot more than 2 where hate bears are involved.

>>49668702
I know what you mean, our LGS has like 5 people show up every month (it's the 3rd Saturday) and its really fucking annoying. Our shop is about an hour drive for us but our friends opened it up so we try to be supportive of them and attend tourneys.

There are easily 13 people that COULD be playing but they play so damn much modern and commander events they are burned out for the week by the time legacy hits. So the 2 guys that commute with me are wasting gas and shit for events that don't fire.

We usually play non sanctioned games because fuck, we drove an hour to play some fucking legacy!

>>49666340
>it marked the point where WotC decided that white weenie creatures should be prison/lock pieces
>>49666416
>Trinispheres can't attack. Thalia marks the point when wotc decided that locks should also be clocks

Well that's what your fuckwad argument was a little bit ago. Care to amend your complaints so that you can feel better about playing shitty decks and losing?

>>49669099

I don't think the cards I mentioned are in the same league as Mystical Tutor. The power-level's obviously way higher for Mystical, but it's not just that; it's that the Tutor's also a whole lot more powerful in the format (which is itself more powerful than Modern for obvious reasons).

Wizards painted itself into a corner in Modern because they wanted to make a format that both was slower than Legacy or Vintage and was still a non-rotating format. Because they're going to keep printing new cards for the format (increasing the number of possible interactions between cards), they're going to keep having to police the format with bans in ways that are largely arbitrary and pretty irksome. I used to play Storm in Modern before all the good cards in it were banned, and it's pretty aggravating to have your deck die because of several targeted bans.

I find myself wondering whether the format would've been able to handle Eldrazi if some of the previous "broken" archetypes hadn't been neutered by bans. Hell, it's probably the second-best deck in Legacy (where it's got even better support), but the format handled it fine because it isn't being policed so heavily.

Legacy doesn't have the problem of artificial expectations for "what the format should be." So when something gets banned (like Mystical Tutor), it's usually because the card is overpowered in a world of overpowered cards, and the decks that played the card usually recover.

Not sure how much sense that made, but anyway...

>>49669126

Yeah, that's a good point, but the reverse of that is that without cantrips you actually have a higher density of threats than decks that do run cantrips. That may mean that your deck doesn't play as smoothly, but I think the lack of utility is outweighed by the raw power of the cards.

And regarding mulligans, it's really hard to mulligan properly in a deck with 14 cantrips. I would argue that it's harder to do than it is to mulligan in a deck with no cantrips.

>>49669636

>playing shitty decks and losing

Having bad matchups doesn't mean you're playing a bad deck. Not really sure what your argument is here.

Tacking an existing busted effect onto an attacker and reducing or maintaining the cost is bad design, and it's indicative of a pretty pronounced effort to throttle forward certain strategies at the expense of others.

I don't actually have a problem with Thalia from the perspective of design, but his argument was valid.

>>49669052
Magma Jet is in there as removal, but the card filtration is the incredibly important part. Normally prison decks play off the top, and Jet is one of the few ways you have of filtering through your deck.

>>49669126
>I've found sequencing, mulliganing, and creating a game plan in Death and Taxes to be one of the more difficult decision trees to navigate
I agree. Burn decision trees can also get really fucking nasty, in my experience particularly with Burn because there will always be 1 point of damage that can save your opponent and doom you to a loss.

Dredge decision trees are less complex but still quite decision-oriented. Mulligan til you get the 3 or 4 pieces you need, then go to town in game 1. Game 2 is where you really need to be on your A game.

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No love for lands?

>>49670449
>not using a ftv tabernacle

Get out.

>>49670449

I'll never ever be able to afford Tabernacle and it makes me sad.

>>49669843
>Tacking an existing busted effect onto an attacker
That dies to removal more frequetly that sphere of resistance/trinisphere

>>49670511
Sorry, my LGS only had MP legends for sale.

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What's the scariest thing that's happened to you regarding your legacy or other expensive decks/cards?

For me well
>be thirsty
>go to garage to grab coke
>tfw I brought my legacy deck for some reason
>open coke and trip
>coke falls over my entire deck
> only the first sleeves got wet
>mfw I JUST double sleeved them

>>49670952
>>coke falls over my entire deck
>> only the first sleeves got wet
You were consuming the wrong type of coke

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>>49666527
best waifu indeed

>>49666654
u shit it cunt il rek u sware on me mum

>>49670990
Sorry forgot most Americans don't call it coke

>>49670952
Replace coke with Coca-Cola

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>>49666527
>best waifu
>not pic related
Suck my dick, competitive Commander players.

>>49670952
>leave my bag with a friend while I grab back
>come back, he's gone, as is my bag
>flip the fuck out, there was like $1200+ in cars in there
>store owner said he picked up my bag for me after my friend left to go get some food himself
I nearly kicked the shit out of him when he got back.

>>49671238
*grab food

>>49671098
We do call it coke, I think other anon was making a joke about drugs.

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>Wizards now makes this a policy too, except instead of ordering models/specific cards you can order boosterboxes

>Relive classic drafts
>Open up availability of old sets as they get opened again

Why won't they fucking do this

>>49671385
What the shit is this real?

>>49671406
It would seem so.
>Wreck the secondary market of OOP miniatures
Why can't wizards take this step damnit.

>>49671385
>no limited editions
No Alpha and Beta, that's fine. Unlimited gets a pseudoreprint so new duals and Moxen and even Black Lotuses can make circulation. Clearly they have to print these in order to keep up with demand because I know Wizards doesn't have 50,000 cases of the oldest sets sitting around in some warehouse basement somewhere. I think it's a much better step than the fucking Masterpiece things.

>>49671484
I mean it would mean they'd either not reprint sets with reserved list cards in them, or only reprint them but "cut" the reserved list cards from the print sheet. And even if it wasn't a 24/7 service, I can imagine it working it like this.

>People make order for OOP boosterbox
>Boosters are now retroactively restandardised to modern boosters, no weird 6 card shit. 1 Marketing Card, 1 Land, 1 Rare/mythic, 3 unc, 10common, exceptions made for sets with things like dfc)
>Every month/2months/3months, wizards tallies up the orders and has the prints happen
>Cards get sent out
>Any possible surplus gets stored for next wave
Heck, even throw in the "Surprise me" boosterbox, where you just get 36 random boosters for whatever chaos draft you like.

You don't even kill the entire secondary market, since "original" Black Lotuses will obviously drop in value but still be worth more to collectors than those newfangly ones, whereas those who want to play with them don't care if it's a reprint or an original. You also can't order a specific card, but still have to "gamble" on it.

>>49671451
If you have to order through your LGS, isn't that a fair trade off?

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>>49671569
>ywf Wizards decides to also reprint region-specific cards for the American audience
>ywf you will be able to order a whole box of portal 3 kingdoms

>>49666610
Dont forget Crucible + Wasteland, Grove + Punishing Fire and a Tabernacle lock.

>>49671594
It's not fair to people who invested in duals and power way back when...

...but fuck those guys I want their cards.

>>49671775
Boohoo, it's a trading card game, not a US treasury bond or a stock or whatever.

>>49671800
I mean, I want reprints but I get why they don't. It ruins their credibility with the people who have played the longest and invested the most. It would make future promises worthless, and the results would be unpredictable.

>>49671850
It would make future promises worthless, only because they made a stupid promise to begin with. I, and I think the majority of players, would hardly feel bad for wizards for them taking back their "we want to reduce availability of certain cards to players" promise.

As for the results being unpredictable, that's what comes with changes, and stagnancy isn't going to be the solution either.

>>49671896
Meant It wouldn't make.. if only because it was a stupid promise to begin with.

Kind of in the same way nobody takes the promise that YOU'LL NEVER DRINK AGAIN after waking up with a massive hangover.

>>49672003
Right, it was a stupid promise to people who had bought in. But now they'll sue when the promise is broken because they're older and more rich.

>>49672107
Sue on what grounds though? I am unfamiliar with the exact details of the "promise" and what law that would relate to.

>>49672149
I dunno, breach of contract? Didn't really find the proper term, but I did find this

> Ultimately even though nearly everyone in R&D wanted to abolish the list Wizards decided that they could not break the promise that they made all those years ago. The prevailing theory is that the Hasbro legal department was worried about lawsuits from collectors over falling secondary market prices but that's just conjecture.

http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/finance/24792-I-Hate-The-Reserved-List.html

>>49672268
Basically, Hasbro are pussies.

>>49672268
Where was the original promise that supposedly implies a contract made? What are its specifics?

I mean, even if I promise to you that I'll give you 5 bucks every day, with countless witnesses, I can't imagine that being legally binding. And wouldn't the damages basically then be the "at the time" going second market value of the reserved list cards having to be paid to owners?

>>49672353
I bet Hasbro just doesn't want to waste money in the legal department even if there are no grounds to sue. People will try.

I was thinking of some kind of PW control deck in legacy. Jace seems to be auto include, but either I go Esper for kaya, lili / or grixis for nu chandra
thoughts?

Does anyone have an up to date parfait list?

>>49673366
I think esper would be better. Kaya seems better than Chandra.

>>49669636
I guess i'll try to make it simple. Sometimes my thoughts are kind of haphazard and don't fit together well because of doing too much Doomsday .

Thalia marks a distinct change in attitude towards how powerful and myriad hate bears should be. Hateful effects existed before, attached to bears even. I don't have a problem with the idea of hatebears. Traditionally spells have been far more powerful and they are a way to have creatures compete. I am, however, alarmed by how far in the opposite direction wotc has swung recently. In my opinion, thalia marks the beginning of this period. Does that make it clear?

>>49671385
So, no new sisters on plastic but old sisters on metal?

Just tested a bunch against diff reanimator decks and man is 4c loam shit against it

>>49666055
>no Stasis lists

go back to hearthstone kids

>>49673705
Except that you are overreacting, but yes, we understood

>>49671850
Magic has already proved to have value. Being modern playable means reaching ridiculous price heights, despite every card in the format being re-printable. In fact, even reserve list cards didn't really get silly before parasitic speculators started manipulating them for quick bucks.

>>49673890
Speculators/investors are the worst thing to ever happen to MTG.

>>49673705

Don't worry DDFT guy, I get what you're saying, at least.

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/tg/ help, I'm newish to magic and I've got some questions about some cards and can't seem to google any clear answers.

Does skullcrack negate healing done while both cards are on the stack? For example if a friend plays Gnaw to the bone to gain life and I play Skullcrack in response does it negate the healing done even though they're both instants and skullcrack was played second?
Additionally if I play a burn spell and reduce a player's life to 0 can they sac children of korlis or tainted sigil to live, even when they are already technically dead?

thanks guys

>>49674040
They are the dregs of society and no "promise" that benefits them should be taken seriously. Especially when the "market" is really just TCG player and other sites and can be manipulated as easily as buying a few hundreds cards out of the hundreds of thousands printed. It is a joke.

>>49674134
I think you're not aware of what The Stack is
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/articles/15678-priority-and-the-stack

educate yourself on this, it's a vital aspect of playing Magic.

>>49674046
Thank I guess. I think maybe i was being
baited.
>>49673860
It's fine to disagree with me. You're coming on a bit strong. I prefer my lovers more submissive. unless they're raw steak encased in porcelain

>>49674134

If you have questions about mechanics or Magic in general, have a look to see if the Ask A Judge thread is about, where a certified judge likes to help people out on 4chan.

If that's not up (it isn't at the moment), feel free to make a new thread yourself. The generals on /tg/ tend to be for more advanced players discussing specific formats.

and yeah, read the article >>49674203 linked to

>>49674134
If your new you should lurk the GA ask a judge threads. He's great at answering questions for newbies and you'll pick up general rules knowledge to help your gameplay. If theres not one active read through old ones in the archives. While we're pretty chill in this thread nobody here really wants to help you walk through basic interactions

>>49674134
FYI were not trying to sound elitist in these

>>49674203
>>49674340
>>49674361

we're just lazy, and trying to help in the long run

>>49674386
>http://www.mtgsalvation.com/articles/15678-priority-and-the-stack
>>49674361
>>49674340
>>49674203
Got it, I'll re-post in an appropriate area. Also thanks for the link.

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>>49672268
>>49672353
>>49672462

See bottom of pic related.

Paraphrased definition of promissory estoppel...A promise which the promisor (WotC) should reasonably expect to induce action or forbearance on the promisee (RL-era vendors and retailers) and which does induce such action, is binding if injustice can be avoided only by enforcement of the promise.

WotC's product was failing, they needed people to buy Magic cards, they made the RL to protect card values so that retailers would buy more cards. The retailers bought product because of the promise that the cards would never be reprinted. WotC could reasonably have expected retailers to buy more product on their promise that WotC would not reprint RL cards. Whether or not retailers did who knows, court could find so especially considering Magic has been thriving since the establishment of the RL. The promise could be binding if injustice were the only outcome of non-enforcement....it's really anyone's guess as to what a court would do.

Not saying pic related makes a bulletproof case, but IMO when Wizards was in the process of making the RL, I would almost certainly guess that they communicated their intentions to retailers. Nor am I saying that even with loads of evidence in that vein WotC would lose, but certainly the possibility is there that they could.

>>49674545

>WotC may reprint cards on the reserved list for new foreign-language editions

I FOUND THE LOOPHOLE

Quick, somebody come up with the ebonics version of the power nine.

>>49674623
>mox jet

dats racist

>>49674138
Fucking TCGplayer, devaluing my collection by thousands just because the only copies they have of some cards are Damaged quality. Oh so now the median price is $2000 less than it was last week? Sounds legit. Tired of people acting like TCGplayer is the be-all and end-all of pricing reliability.

>>49674134
They're not dead if the burn spell hasn't resolved. But they can't gain life off those sacrifices if no life was lost other than the life that will be lost when the burn spell resolves. The stack operates last in, first to resolve. So the first example, skullcrack takes effect first because it came last. Thus it prevents the life gain. In the other example again, if they can't gain life because no life was lost to gain back, once they're at 0 the game immediately ends. Can't respond, it's state-based not a stack-based effect.

>>49666055
Is RB Delver still a thing since TC was hit? Everyone I know who played it went Grixis

>>49674792
Shit, I mean RU Delver, my bad

>>49674623
They've changed the policy since then and eliminated that loophole though.

>>49674814
>>49674792
it is. it even got some sweet tech lately with Bedlam Ravager and Stormchaser Mage.

>>49674978
Bedlam Reveler*

>>49674895

They also removed a bunch of cards from the Reserve List

It's an odd thing, and its mysteries are beyond the ken of mere mortals like us

>>49674731
Yeah it's fucking stupid sometimes, a couple years ago there was a random uncommon that was $2000 because all the sellers had it ridiculously priced for lolz

>>49674814
Olle rade plays it. recently lists have started running bedlam reveler. it seems ok, but I don't think there's enough reason to justify not running another color.

>>49675070
>another color
disgusting colormixers. mono-colored is the only way to go.

>>49675108
spotted the mono-U delver pauper player

>>49675189
Pauper is for lower class scum.

(I'm a poorfag myself but just go along with the act ok)

>>49675108
How does it feel to lose the burn mirror to lightning helix players?

>>49675220
hah hah, fuck the man and all that amirite

seriously though, I came up with a shitty Esper walkers deck
Basically sub-optimal miracles even further sub-optimised

>>49675244
Never encountered anyone running Lightning Helix in Legacy desu lad

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>>49675244
>lightning helix
>in Legacy burn

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>>49675244
>lightning helix

>want to play legacy
>too poor to even afford a manabase
Hot damn. I don't think I'll be able to afford a legacy deck until I've graduated and found a big boy job. At my current pay rate it'd take 200 to 300 hours of working.

>>49675560
>not having a monocolor deck
>not having a manabase of all basics

Memeing aside, what deck(s) interest you?

>>49675611
but if he has a monocolor deck, he'll lose to all the people playing lightning helix!

>>49675629
didn't realize he was schizophrenic

>>49675560
try XMage

>>49675560
Play Death & Taxes, faggit. You can't afford 4x Rishadan Port and 3x Karakas? That's faggitshit.

>>49676060

Alternatively, you could not act like a huge cunt and tell him to play some of the more budget-friendly decks like Miracle Gro, 8-Land Stompy, or Shadow Stompy.

>>49676320

Or hell, even Reanimator has a good price now. Not having duals just means your manabase is less optimal but that doesn't mean you still can't turn one Reanimate Grislebrand or that angel that hoses mono-colored decks.

>>49676320
isn't miracle grow just really old rug delver with quirion dryad instead of goyf? seems like duals would make it still expensive and it would be unplayable with shocks.

>>49676466

I've seen people building a budget variant that works all right. It's got enough counter magic to not fold to combo and enough deck manipulation that the fetches/duals aren't absolutely a deal-breaker. http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/legacy-type-1-5/budget-legacy/185552-urg-miracle-grow

There have also people who have been experimenting with using Myth Realized instead of the Dryad.

>>49675611
U/r delver and Shardless BUG. I suppose I ought to just play burn as I already have a set of goblin guides.
>>49675906
I should try again, but for whatever reason I couldn't get it to work. It wouldn't save my decklists, and connecting to the server was a struggle.

>>49675258
You aren't running Fetches and they are, that might equate to 3 life. So it actually seems even. Also Price of Progress is a card.

>>49670835

>dies to removal

I hope you realize that saying that makes it impossible to take you seriously.

>>49676759

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but those are some of the more expensive decks in the format. You could try experimenting with a Delver list that runs fewer Volcanics and swings more toward one color or the other, or maybe some kind of draw-burn deck, but I don't know how well that will work; I'm a dirty combo-player, so aggro/control isn't something with which I have much experience.

There are a number of alternative decks that are actually pretty cheap, but I don't think they're anything like what seems to interest you and you won't get much crossover value from the cards if you're looking to build up to those decks gradually. You could check out Charbelcher and manaless Dredge; those are pretty cheap to build, and they're actually pretty well positioned at the moment because they scoff at Chalices. They're definitely in a better position than Shardless.

>>49675070

I think the principal strengths of Izzet Delver are its speed and consistency. Price of Progress is also huge.

>>49676320
Or you could not be a faggit with no money and stop empathizing and identifying with other broke faggits.

>>49673366
Bit late, but Kaya sounds neat with Tidehollow Sculler and such.

>>49674134
I usually use this IRC when I want to ask a judge something. chat.magicjudges.org/

What are some legacy decks I can play lingering souls in?

>>49678141
Esper Stoneblade
Junk Midrange

2nd at Thursday night legacy with DnT.

Round 1: Junk Natural order. 2-1. Gideon was a house and Serra Avenger did work. Lost G2 to minor might misplays and won g3 despite them

Round 2: RUG Delver. Took it in two, both vial/port draws. It was a righteous slaughter.

Round 3: Oops All Dicks 0-2. The usual boring games

Finals: Lost again to Oops. Thinking of switching to Soldier Stompy and trying to fuck up Oops next week.

I've been undefeated against Delver for a while, only really struggling with 22-23 land decks. Except Miracles, which seems very favorable

>>49678231
I've seen it in Dega with Mentor and Pyromancer

>>49678289
You don't play stompy to stop combo unless you get 1 trinisphere in your opener every time, you play Delver.

>>49678342
I like that I've got 4 Chalice 4 Thalia 4 THC and 4 Suppression Field g1, and 4 Chalice 7 Thorns 2 RIP 2 Containment Priest 2 Prelate G2. I might add a lotus petal for extra ways to get lock pieces down quickly.

>>49678141
Deadguy

>>49676589
If you want to play something cheap and more "competetive" play something like Mono U Countertop.
http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=4946&d=228572&f=LE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYnvLl5FGEo
It's an old decklist, but the match is very entertaining to watch, as the Mono U player really takes esper deathblade on a walk.

>>49678141
Holy Pox

>>49666134
I think he meant B'hug and Ruhgg

>>49676759
>>49677724
No no no, go ahead and build Shardless. It has a good Burn matchup.
Trust me, I would know! :^)

>>49678508
>>49679694
Never heard of these, list?

>>49675026
So the best thing we can hope for is that Hasbro gets a CEO that cares more about magic than about a potential lawsuit and prefers longterm game viability over short-term "chaos".

That, or the one other logical conclusion. Cards on the reserved list are banned from all wizards-sanctioned tournaments.

>>49680492
Or the solution that they're trying to implement. Plan "no one plays legacy anyway"

>>49680511
But nobody plays legacy because of the associated costs, which can be directly linked to the lack of reprinting of staples. It's a "we won't do A until B happens, and B won't happen until A happens".

>>49680528
I was talking about their current attempts to phase out eternal formats.

>>49680547
What are the current attempts? Ignoring them? Because that's been going on for a decade at least.

>>49674545
>same ability
All they need to do is add
100: You lose the game

Or something equally irrelevant

>>49680713
I mean, that just means that people who care about the format will run "eight" of them, for example a UB deck would run not just 4 underground seas, but also 4 Plunderground Please which has 100:you lose. Or perhaps an easier addition, 4 snowcovered underground seas.

>>49680749
Yeah I was thinking about that problem, how it's tempting to print a "fixed" goyf for GG or something, but then you'd have to actually ban goyf or else you'd exacerbate the problem.

They could just ban all reserved list cards and make functional reprints, but this is not as easy with every card as, say, snowcovered duals. What do you do to LED?

>>49680713
Is that an activated ability the enemy can use? Because if so, power artifact is back, baby.

>>49680749
Ban the originals, add a tournament rule that you're allowed to proxy the new ones with the banned originals.

Or do it Relentless Rats style:
"A deck may have a maximum total of 4 cards named Underground Seas and Plunderground Please"

>>49680770
snowcovered LED

fucking fixed

>>49680782
Somebody good at magic think of a useless ability then.

>>49680796
It's really hard. Even something like "Tap: Untap this card" has potential for abuse.

>>49680796
Tap for colourless, doesn't untap next untap step.

>>49680770
You could always make LED tap for mana.

The reserve list isn't legally binding, it's a company policy. It could be changed, they just don't want to.

>>49680796
Reveal a card from your hand or it comes into play tapped. Strictly worse, but hardly.

>>49680814
Some people certainly think it's legally binding. You and I both know they'd get sued if they dropped it. Whether or not WotC would win the suit is beside the point. It would be a shakeup and expensive and cut into Hasbro's profit margin.

>>49680796
{0}: add {0} to your mana pool.

>>49680796
Keyword pluffle
When @ enters the battlefield, put the 14th card from the bottom of your library in the 16th space from the bottom of your library.

>>49680829
Ask a lawyer, there's nothing legally binding about it. Companies change policy all the time, you can't sue someone for it.

The reason they hide behind the "legally binding" excuse is so they don't need to explain why they refuse to stop the reserve list.

>>49680924
This is america though. Half the lawyers I'd ask would tell me I'd win so they'd get some pay.

>>49681024
How is that relevant?

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>>49680452
>Deadguy
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=13156&d=277039&f=LE
It's a couple months old but it's the most recent list that has made it anywhere on MTGTop8. Even with duals and Liliana it's about as expensive as LED Dredge.

>Holy Pox
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/legacy-type-1-5/established-legacy/control/179854-deck-pox-primer?page=19#c453
Again, a little old, but it's what I found. It looks pretty fun, actually, and you could technically run a whole playset of Vindicate. I would recommend swapping a few copies for Anguished Unmaking, which is an obscenely underplayed card.

>>49680796
>useless abilities
See pic.

>>49681024
No, they wouldn't. You would likely get counter-sued for legal fees, and that would be the end of it. WotC doesn't really lose anything.

>>49681049
Because even if you win a lawsuit, it costs time, money, and possibly reputation/stock value.

>>49681119
Ah, now I see what you're getting at. But you have to remember that this case doesn't really have any backing. No good lawyer is going to blow his reputation on a case he knows he'll lose, against a massive company's law department. There's also a decent chance the case just gets dismissed because it's entirely baseless.

>>49681119
>Implying they don't get more money from vintage masters

The loss for them is ridículos and Magic players are junkies that buy everything wizards throws at them

>>49681149
Then what motivation does wizard have for not acting out the policy suggested here
>>49671385

>>49681119
If I decide to sue you for writing something I don't like on the internet, how much money will it put you out? Nothing, but it will put you out a lot.

There are big cases where people try to sue companies for something that isn't illegal. The people who initiated the lawsuit are the ones who get fucked. (See: the people who tried to sue Cinemark in Aurora)

>>49681186
That's the real question, isn't it?

>>49681277
muh secondary market is the only thing I can think of

as a long time type 1 player the reserved list is ridiculous, and I wish they'd come out and say it straight up

>>49681326
They've said it, but they claim we can't because WE PROMISED HUR DUR

>>49681277
They wont use any of the pre-Mirage(? I think) art because they would need to pay the artists that created those cards

>>49681401
Update the art then. Reprinting old sets is literally a goldmine.

>>49681401
>>49681423
Tempest used the old art touched up, it made people believe that it was new art even though it's just the old.

Anyone tested/fought against the newer R/B Reanimator lists? Looks spicy, and I'm interested in giving it a spin.

>>49682200
It feels like ANT is to TES as UB reanimator is to RB.

It's able to apply faster pressure than UB, but its disruption is centered around protecting its own combo rather than more generalized disruption.

>>49670511
>>49670893
Is this a joke I don't get?

>>49670835
Likewise. This is the LGC thread, right?

>>49673366
Didn't McDarby play some kind of Veteran walkers deck some time ago? I think there's coverage of it as well.

>>49682474
Pretty good metaphor(?), I feel like BR is actually the less consistent of the two, in the sense that it can't rebuild as fast after disruption. On the other hand, the all-in strategy does feel superior in metas with irrelevant interaction.

I have RW Painter built, but it just seems really bad in my DnT-heavy meta.
>Any advice?

>>49682521
It's a glass cannon, you go off right away or you'll get stomped on.

>>49671385
They would have to abolish the reserve list to get the real 'classic' blocks available (not being able to get Tempest block would be the biggest hit for me and I'm sure a lot of people would miss Urza's block as well). Additionally, I remember MaRo saying that they literally don't have the ability to print old bordered cards anymore so if you couldn't order anything pre-Mirrodin that would be kind of lame. I would be excited but not overjoyed. It would be nice to go back to Time Spiral or Onslaught limited (border permitting).

>>49682543
Try Pyrokinesis or possibly Fiery Confluence

>>49682796
Kill all of your dudes + blow up your aether vial actually seems pretty amazing with the confluence.

>>49682543
Kozilek's Return is brutal against DnT

>>49682640
Even U/B can feel that way sometimes friend. But yeah, lack of Brainstorm/Ponder is really something different, I wouldn't trade 'em for the world.

>>49683181
Draw power is what lets a deck operate. Someday I'd like to switch to U/B but it'll have to wait.

Well, just played a match vs Parfait, can't say I'm impressed, the t2 RiP threw off my Thopter game plan, but they didn't really present a lock or a clock so I got a T3 Tezz, -1 and got a beat in, they played Solitary Confimenent, next turm I vomitted my hand, including a Bridge since I didn't expect to get beats in. Next turn he sacced it so I -4 Tezz to bring him to 3 and sac bridge to Transmute so I can swing for lethal.
/blog

>>49683474
G2 update, we durdled for ~20 minutes under Moat Humility and then he conceded since I countered all his wincons, what the fuck is this deck?

>>49683408
Wait for what? Get in here lad. Get your feet wet. The water's nice and warm.

>>49683527
I'm on a low budget right now and I want to build ANT next.

>>49683527
I'm assuming he meant wait for money to buy forces and useas.

>>49683642
>>49683649
Forces are relatively cheap right now though, but yeah I assumed budget is an issue.

But if you want ANT, you want Seas anyways, so Force seems like a marginal cost in comparison. The rest of the blue stuff is cheap too: Brainstorm, Ponder, Careful Study.

But I understand man, blast and confound this stupid expensive hobby.

>>49666134
The thread is LEGACY which includes almost every card in the game.

>>49667173
>banding

>>49683757
And...?

How's jund in legacy? It's my understanding that it's been pretty mediocre for a while, but I don't follow the format closely.

>>49684727
Its got rough matchups against stack based combo and Moon decks. Its pretty good vs Delver and Miracles. Depending on the meta, it can be a good choice

>>49683757
BUG and RUG were the original names of the decks. The decks have been called that since the archetypes started. Just keeps tradition to keep the deck names the same as they always have been.

>>49666055
I STILL don't understand why Jund isn't even on this list

>>49684727

Jund and Shardless are essentially two "value" builds. So the cards in them are all stellar for their cost, though they aren't as synergetic as combo decks or as punishing as control or prison decks like Delvers or D&T.

The trouble is that they don't have as much value as Burn does, and though they're a little less one-dimensional, they essentially have the same bad matchups and added bad matchups they can't just value their way through. They don't have many truly awful matchups as far as I know, but they don't have many really great ones, either.

I've heard a number of other storm players effectively say, "you don't have to worry about much disruption, so just combo them out."

>>49683642

I'm in the same boat. Only got two Forces and two Undergrounds, and I'm not sure I want to shell out for those when I'm trying to get Flusterstorms for my storm sideboard.

Thanks for the input regarding the deck, everybody!

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>>49683731
I'll probably just acquire the seas first since it's a staple in both decks.

>>49684881
I disagree that the original names are important, no one uses most of the Invasion block Wedge names, outside of Dega. I think the reason not to use Mardu, Temur and Sultai is that they're shit names. RUG and BUG roll off the tongue really nicely. Dega is a good name in my opinion, but I accept that I'm alone in that.

>>49685059

That's pretty much what I did.

Funny; I'd originally wanted to build Reanimator, but I realized I had so many of the pieces for Storm that I just built it instead and got hooked.

>>49685267

I still call Junk "Necra" when I'm feeling a tad snobbish. Nobody knows what I'm talking about, even people who started playing before I did.

>>49685267

Fuck that, call them by the Homelands land names.

>>49671238
>friend keeps your bag safe with him instead of leaving it unguarded and out in the open
>want to kick the shit out of him

I'm assuming this isn't a very close friend you could trust with anything then? I would probably PANIC as well, but I definitely wouldn't be mad.

>>49685534
I think you may have misread, the store owner picked up the bag, the friend left the bag unguarded.

>>49685531
So, you would call Esper Miracles "Wizard School" Miracles? Metal.

>>49685598

I'd call it Miracle Wizards but yeah.

>>49685604

Grixis Delver suddenly becomes Sengir Delver which will probably end up as being pronounced Senor' Delver over time

>>49685531

I'd be down with that. So let's see here...

Naya - GWR - An-Haava
Bant - WUG - Aysen
Grixis - BUR - Sengir
Jund - RBG - Koskun
Esper - UWB - Wizards'

Sengir is much better than Grixis, in fact all the new wedge names are shit.

>"Legacy is all about Blue mirrors."

Does this statement ring false to anyone else? Someone at FNM said this to me, and I couldn't help but argue. I started playing legacy in 07, and I distinctly remember Goblins, Junk and Zoo being powerful players. What happened to my non-blue decks?

>>49687438

Death and Taxes doesn't have any blue in it and it's the second most-played legacy deck in paper.

>>49687564
You're looking at maybe 25-30% of the field being non-blue. I remember the format not having 70% blue decks.

>>49687438
hey there

>>49687414

That's not Legacy. Legacy is all about "Decks that play Force of Will/Brainstorm" and "Decks that don't play Force of Will/Brainstorm" And there's quite a few in the second category that do quite well like Death and Taxes or Elves.

>>49687438

From what I understand Zoo isn't good anymore because.... ????????

>>49688150
Zoo became bad when they printed a flying Wild Nacatl in blue, which shored up Zoo's bad combo matchup. Then Terminus came along and was the last nail in the decks coffin.

>>49688270
Batterskull also had a big hand in wrecking non-blue decks.

>>49688270

I agree, Delver is what outclassed Zoo as the low-cost aggro deck, and being blue made it resilient to combo. I feel like if Red/Green had some cheap way of interacting with hands or spells that oldschool Zoo could make a comeback, but really white stole that show with all its hatebears that go into Death and Taxes.

>>49680770
Almost no decks play 4 of the same dual as it stands. I think it's just Infect with 4 trops.

>>49689612
>Almost no decks play 4 of the same dual as it stands.

Precisely because that's a $1000 investment (in blue). Ten years ago it was a $200 investment so a lot more decks ran 8 duals.

>>49689917
This seems very naive. If 4 duals was optimal, 4 duals would be played, regardless of the cost. Do you really think players with $10,000 foiled decks care about another $300 dual?

Wasteland is a real card.

>>49688850
Also True-Name. Blue creatures got pushed really fucking hard in the last 5 years.

In general, the list of creatures that are playable has gotten shorter and shorter as new cards have been printed.Before Goyf you could play other two drop threats, but Goyf invalidates anything 4/4 like Wearbear and is just better than Quirion Dryad. Deathrite makes Nimble Mongoose terrible.

Right now, I'd say the playable aggressive creatures are Deathrite, Delver, Young Pyromancer, Tarmogoyf, Mentor and Gurmag Angler.

>>49689917
Ten years ago we only had 5 Fetchlands

>>49689985
Its kind of funny how Legacy is basically the most broken old border spells plus the most broken new border creatures.

>Really like the MUD Stax build that came in 5th
>know I will never be able to justify buying the City of Traitors
>still put down $10 for 4 copies of Smokestack

I kept telling myself it was a good deal because its selling online for like $5 a pop

i hate myself I just know I'm going to end up with another deck I own half the parts for and can't finish it

why do i keep doing this

>>49691445
Just run Crystal Veina

>>49690020
It makes perfect sense when you consider the current design direction
No new spells can beat the power level of past bombs
Yet power creeps up on creatures every set

Someone post a legacy deck we've never seen
Preferably combo or obscure storm variant (not TES or DDFT)

>>49692230
Cheerios.

>>49692240
Ahh Good one

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unban hermit druid pls

>>49692990

>Aether Vial in Cephalid Breakfast

What's all that about?

>>49693508
uncounterability i guess, but Cavern would make more sense.

>>49693579

ahh, if you're runnin' blue you should just counter their counters like a big-dick og!

>>49692990
I'd cut the Vials for Forces.

>>49693579
The list is actually from before Cavern existed.

>>49692230
Go old-school, play Nausea.

I'm not sure if I should pick up IoK for $8 or wait and see if they hit $5, as stores are only paying $3 for them and the print run is still going...

I'm not in any particular hurry, but I've missed the boat on cards before by waiting too long.

>>49695082
What do you need them for? I haven't really seen IoK in Legacy apart from in some Turbo Depths builds, where it still seems just worse than Duress.

>>49695095

Monoblack Pox's sideboard. I mainboard duress, but if I'm running up against combo like Charbelcher or low-creature control like Miracles I want to swap the Innocent Bloods out for something equivalent and I figured Inquisitions would be the best bet. It was either that or Blackmail, or... Appetite for Brains, I guess?

>>49692230
How about necrologia, aka necro2.0?
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?18226-Necro-2-0

>>49695150
Unmask is probably pretty decent against the fast decks, since it lets you potentially take two cards on the play. IoK just seems sort of weak against the likes of Belcher, since you usually are taking their business spells which are both CMC 4.

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I've seen Burgeoning used in Lands, but what about including it into 12Post? I feel like it would help power out some more cloudposts and vesuvas on your opponent's turn that would otherwise come into play tapped.

>>49695669
It's mostly a strictly worse Exploration

Question time

>How you pimp your decks?

>How do you support your pimping?

>Do you play mtg finance?

>Best bargains you found

>>49692230
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/legacy-type-1-5/developing-legacy/181320-deck-primer-s-crap
I will forever love that deck, quick, different, efficient. Easy to hate, but well, can't have everything.

>>49696692
>How you pimp your decks?
Expensive, original pack foils are my favorite pimp thing. Unfortunately, I have mixed language stuff plus nonfoil stuff in all my decks so they look kinda aimless.

>How do you support your pimping?
Job monies.

>Do you play mtg finance?
No.

>Best bargains you found
I don't look very hard for bargains, I usually just look to pay slightly below "market price". I'm willing to compromise with condition a bit more than I probably should.

>>49696692
>Question time
>>How you pimp your decks?
I typically only go for foils for specific EDH decks (I have a zombie tribal deck with all kinds of German, Russian and Japanese foils in it.)
I will go out of my way to get cool basic lands to use in my competitive decks and to make sure as much of the deck as possible is black bordered and has matching borders (Using Khans fetches to match the Zendikar fetches.)
>>How do you support your pimping?
I used to unload all of my bulk garbage on Pucatrade, but that site is kinda dead. Now, I just trade people locally for cheaper stuff and scour GP's for hot deals on more expensive stuff.
>>Do you play mtg finance?
Not really.
>>Best bargains you found
My friend gave me a good deal on his collection a while back. 200 bucks for everything he had, minus his Ernham-Geddon deck. Included 4 Force of Wills, 4 Survival of the Fittest, 2 Sinkholes, a few beta cards like Mahamoti Djinn and Serra Angel.
This was back when forces were about 40 bucks a pop. He knew what all the cards were worth, but he wanted to give a friend a sweet deal on them.
Same dude found a Beta Emerald and Underground Sea in a shoebox at his dad's place earlier this year, got the emerald graded and it's something like 9.0 or 9.5. He cashed in the Underground to finish like 3 legacy decks.

>>49697356
buy the guy a drink

I'm curious if Cabal Slaver has ever saw play in a Goblin deck. He makes the damage much more threatening, but is easy to kill, nongoblin and kinda sucks desu.

>>49697356
>Same dude found a Beta Emerald and Underground Sea in a shoebox at his dad's place earlier this year, got the emerald graded and it's something like 9.0 or 9.5.

Wow, I didn't think shit like that still happened.

>>49697463
I saw all the cards he found, they were all pretty much mint condition. He had found another box when he was moving a few years ago with revised dual lands and stuff in it, which got him back into magic, playing legacy.
>>49697447
I have bought him a few drinks since then.

>>49696692
>how do you pimp?
I actually reverse pimp. I get a sick thrill from making my decks ugly
>how do you sup port your pimping?
don't really need to.
>do you play mtg finance
Nope!
>best bargain
I haven't got any super bargains, but a store near my old house had a dollar rare bin that frequently had 5-10 dollar cards in it. I would loot it every week. Got a bunch of small deals til they went out of business.

>>49695669
That's more of a "I already have 4 Exploration, what now?"

>>49697356
These stories sound like the bomb disarmings we sometimes still have here in Germany.
Wish I would find stuff like that in boxes.

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>>49697774
>reverse pimping
my man

>>49697881
You're missing one copy of the new FoW and a pair of conspiracy Brainstorm IMO.

>>49696692
All singleton art, either all foil or no foil

>>49697878
It's not like they were cards he didn't know he had, they were cards that he thought he had lost or traded forever ago.

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>>49696692
>>How you pimp your decks?
Full-art cards, old-ass and/or expensive special lands and rare editions
>>How do you support your pimping?
With money
>>Do you play mtg finance?
No
>>Best bargains you found
Eh, can't tell actually. I don't really care about bargains, as long as I get the cards that I want

>>49697881
>white bordered glistened elves
Muh dick

>>49697921
it doesn't show very well in that picture, but all my brainstorms are signed by four of my friends from college, and one of them block printed it like an autist. otherwise I'd mismatch them for sure.

>>49698363
>block printed
He's my hero.

>>49696692
>Question time
>>How you pimp your decks?
Foiling out legacy and modern infect. Original print pack foils unless there is a strictly better option ie: judge nobles vs conflux, ema forces vs judge

Reverse pimping rb reanimator. Beat to shit, different art, white borders, etc.

>>How do you support your pimping?
Paying credit cards with credit cards

>>Do you play mtg finance?
Sometimes, but just to make a quick buck on underpriced cards.

>>Best bargains you found
6x Nahiri for 12$ when they were at 40
Random other massively undervalued cards at stores that don't update their prices.

Should I run 3 or 4 Young Pyromancer in my Grixis Delver?

>>49698972
yes you should, it's a good card

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>>49699328

>>49699408
even if it's a stock list, you need to say what goes in for it friend, my answer was the best you could get, because I don't know your deck, meta, shit like that.

Sanctum Prelate is a cunt.
DnT was already annoying, but I never actually hated the matchup before. Now, however...

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>>49699995
Death and taxes queen of format
I will shove my white weenies on your ass

>>49696692
>How you pimp your decks?
I pick the art I like the best, and get 4 of those in decent condition. I prefer older printings usually, but not always. Currently working on getting Zombie Gideon's, a Judge Foil Sword of Fire and Ice, and getting my Plows borderless.

>How do you support your pimping?
A job?

>Do you play mtg finance?
No, I play the big boy stock market

>Best bargains you found
SP Japanese Rishadan Ports for 80 bucks this year

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>>49700064
>posting art that doesn't showcase a top 3 waifu

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>>49700171
Did someone say "Top Waifu"?
I did not have sexual relations with that bird!

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>>49700269
I fucked the moon

This might sound dumb, but I'm guessing it's very difficult to make your own deck up and have it be somewhat viable, correct?

>>49700064

>12-post laughing intensifies

>>49700533
Not if you have good cards and know the metagame and expected matchups.

>>49700533
Step 1: Get 4 Ancient Tombs, 4 City of Traitors, and 4 Chrome Mox
Step 2: Get 4 Chalice of the Void and 4 Trinisphere
Step 3: Pick a color
Step 4: Get 12 basics of that color, and 4 of that color's 3 mana lock piece (meme moon, back to basics, choke, etc.).
Step 5: Get a bunch of random creatures that cost 3 mana with power and toughness in that color.

Congratulations! You now have a Legacy deck that wins 30% of games.

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>>49700269
Best waifu coming thru.
Chandra second Nahiri third

>>49700533
>>49700533
Pretty hard to make a breakout deck that hasn't been tried before. You also have to think about what your deck can answer.
Alright, can my deck answer somewhere in the 75:
Belcher/Oops
Miracles lock
Chalice on 1
Blood Moon
Wastelands

What do you guys think of the Kaladesh cards for legacy?

>>49701050
I think Chandra, Torch is probably playable in a Stompy deck.

Ceremonious Rejection is probably sideboard-worthy.

Dramatic Reversal untaps Candelabras, but that's about it.

Lost Legacy can neuter combo decks, especially since it can be played T1 pretty easily.

Kambal might see sb play against storm decks, but I doubt it.

I don't think any of the vehicles are really amazing, a SFM batterskull package it probably better in most situations.

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>>49700672
Laughinginmymountains.jpg

>>49701158
kambal also eats bolt like a lifegaining champ, he seems pretty strong to me in a dnt with black splash or a similar bulid, lots of decks run tons of cantips and stuff. Agree with the rest.

>>49701158

>Lost Legacy

I'm actually a tad worried about this one. I think it's probably not better than Slaughter Games, though, and I've never seen that cast in my (small) meta.

Speaking of Slaughter Games, has anyone tried it out against Miracles?

>>49701158
I doubt Chandra's efficiency in a stompy deck considering Koth does stompy better. Maybe some sort of midrange or tempo deck wants her.

Kambal feels like he can be a powerhouse and wincon against combo decks and spell heavy, boltless decks like miracles or Stoneblade.

Lost legacy, Maybe as a combo killer for combo vs combo Matchups, especially since you could easily t1 it.

That's just my 2 cents though, take it as you will

Anyone have a good steer on a decent alterist for Plow's?

>>49701158

>I don't think any of the vehicles are really amazing, a SFM batterskull package it probably better in most situations.

I'm actually wondering whether a singleton roflcopter could give Stoneforge decks a bit of reach; I find that once they've landed a Batterskull or a Jitte, Stoneforge pretty much doesn't do anything.

>>49702849
It's a terrible topdeck

>>49702849
You know, some looter scooters could go a long way. You never know until you try

>>49702734
>>49701158
>>49701050
Kambal in Deadguy Ale? I could see it finding a good home there, maybe not as a playset but a few copies for sure. Sideboard material at the very least. I want to build Deadguy and test it out now, even though BW is the shittiest color combo.

>>49702915

Yeah, that's true. Of course, at that point, so is another Stoneforge Mystic, among other things.

I doubt the copter's going to break into the eternal formats, but it seems like it might shine in grindy matchups like Stoneblade mirrors, anything that plays creatures versus Miracles, etc.

If Chalices weren't cropping up all over the place, I'd say the battleship could have a place in Welder decks.

>>49702984
A Stoneforge late game when you're out of equipment is a body to hold a sword. a Thopter is a 2 mana spell that does nothing by itself

>>49703085
But what if you had a scooter that flies, loots AND holds a sword

>>49703164
Specifically in a Stoneforge deck, the games where you have issues is the grindy ones. You usually just need to land one good creature to get the ball rolling. Thopter is not a creature by itself, and thats a serious issue

>>49702712
You can't T1 Dark Ritual into Slaughter Games though.
I think Lost Legacy has potential.

>>49703085

Yeah, the problem with the vehicles is that they don't do anything if you don't have any other creatures on the field. One reason I was thinking of blade shells is that they sometimes run token generators and Enlightened Tutors, either maindeck or in the sideboard.

The big question is what one would cut for the card and why; those decks are pretty heavily tuned, and as great as looting is in grindy matchups, those decks run cantrips anyway.

One other card I've been wondering about is the Veteran Motorist. Probably only good enough for Modern, but Scry is great in Boros colors. Is Imperial Taxes still a thing?

>>49703191

True, but you can Petal out Slaughter Games. Sincerely hoping to do that someday, but I don't know whether it's worth a slot or two in the sideboard.

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Is this a spicy legacy tech spell, or is there an instant for the same price that does the same thing?

>>49703254
Imperial Taxes is good, but I don't think Motorist isn't great in a control deck. The deck's consistency comes from Recruiter and SFM. Also, dying to Dread of Night is a huge knock against it.

>>49704200
Its the most efficient spell for what it does. Disenchant costs 2, Demystify is only Enchantments, Nature's Claim is green and Natural State is only CMC 3 or less.

>>49704200
>>49704276
It is however not an instant, which is why I prefer disenchant

>>49704489
Disenchant can also kill Batterskull and chalice

>>49704200
>>49704276

The problem I see is it won't kill Chalice at one on turn one, so it's less than useless for what you'll generally be needing it for if you're playing white (the only other artifact I can think of that people would run into with regularity that's a huge problem is Aether Vials). I'd honestly rather run Disenchant.

>>49670952
Cutie

>>49704200
Vs the most dangerous artifacts and enchantments:
>RiP
Perfectly fine
>Standstill
Useless
>Counterbalance
Will get counterd
>Blood Moon
Perfectly fine
>Sylvan Library
You want to break it at ther EoT
>Eidolon of the Great Revel
You want to kill it when it attacks
>Sneak Attack
Irrelevant if they can activate.
>Alluren
Of little use
>Umezawa's Jitte
You want to break it in response to it being equipped.
>Batterskull
You want to break it in response to an attack
>Chalice of the Void
80% of the time comes down on 1
>Trinisphere
Unrestricted Instant>Restricted Sorcery when both cost 3
>Painter's Servant
You want to kill it in response to Grindstone
>Grindstone
You want to kill it in response to it's activation
>Aether Vial
Fine
>Pithing Needle/Phyrexian Revoker
You wanna break them at opponent's EoT
>Grafdigger's Cage
Fine
>Sensei's Divining Top
lol

Saving on 1 mana really isn't worth the sorcery speed in any situation.

>>49705362
Irrelevant to the question of Frag vs Disenchant; I don't think you thought your analysis through very well.

>>49700776
Can confirm.

>>49705362
A lot of the timings you said are entirely unnecessary.

>>49705497
But optimal.

>>49704200
I use it in Vintage Dredge because it hits every piece of hate and doesn't gain them life. When you're trying to calculate a lethal swing on turn 3, that 4 life can be really hard to deal with, and it isn't like I need to respond to hate at instant speed.

>>49705509
Not really.

>>49705362

>>Sylvan Library
>You want to break it at ther EoT
No reason to do this rather than main phase

>>Eidolon of the Great Revel
>You want to kill it when it attacks
You want to kill it. Doesn't matter when.

>>Sneak Attack
>Irrelevant if they can activate.
Pretty relevant a lot of the time then

>>Alluren
>Of little use
If they have it all, sure

>>Umezawa's Jitte
>You want to break it in response to it being equipped.
Sometimes, if the 2 mana really matters

>>Batterskull
>You want to break it in response to an attack
No real upside to this timing

>>Chalice of the Void
>80% of the time comes down on 1

>>Trinisphere
>Unrestricted Instant>Restricted Sorcery when both cost 3
Sure

>>Painter's Servant
>You want to kill it in response to Grindstone
Yes.

>>Grindstone
>You want to kill it in response to it's activation
No, you don't

>>Aether Vial
>Fine

>>Pithing Needle/Phyrexian Revoker
>You wanna break them at opponent's EoT
Whats the upside

>>Grafdigger's Cage
>Fine


Overall, you seem to highly value the "Perry Mason" moments, where you can say "Gotcha!". A vast majority of the time, there's no upside to waiting. When you start getting blown out by Flickerwisps, topdecked Counter's and other fun stuff you learn why "getting" people is very minor.

The real upside of an instant is that you can pop it off on their turn, which can be more mana efficient.

>>49705557
Thanks for typing all that out, I didn't really want to.