Magic in low fantasy

I keep it out of the player's hands.

>>49664594
The more precise it is, the less mysterious it is.

I say keep scientific magic like that very rare, and have most magic be one-off events caused by gods or powerful monsters or unique gifted casters.

>>49664815
This.
Or if they must access it, make it mystical, and uncertain in its effects.
Like charms for repelling Ghosts, or offerings to ancient spirits that may or may not dwell within the forest, but which must be appeased, or disaster may befall you.

my favorite system is rothefussian.
Magic is just the connecting of the energies of two objects, which is precise enough to be sciency, but vague enough to allow both lifting a coin you're not touching and summoning lightning by turning a tree into a magnet during a storm

>>49665126
the books also make it clear how mentally draining magic is, so allowing your players to do magic but tempering them with a steady stream of int/wis checks for concentration would be justified

So in pathfinder (oh no how terrible he actually likes that) There is an optional magic system called Occult Rituals, and in a low magic campaign, it could be a good source of the only realistically available magic

Its basically the answer to "how does an 7th level badguy cast spells that only a max level wizard could pull off"

The people using Occult Rituals don't actually know the full mechanics behind the magic, they just have a step by step recipe of weird crap that outputs a result.

It's never guaranteed either, they require multiple skill checks, specific conditions, sometimes multiple casters. And should you fail, it can have unpleasant backlash.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/occult-adventures/occult-rules/occult-rituals

>>49664594
In a low magic setting, magic should be rare and mysterious. Meaning that it should pretty much only be used by like, the odd NPC.

Fireballs and telekinesis aren't really low magic

>>49665264
I actually think the opposite.

Low magic settings should be restricted to ONLY fireballs and telekinesis(at least in the players hands). No affecting the narrative with it. No changing up the fundamental ways. No causality works with it. No summoning demons, no conjuring food, no teleportation, no mystic steads or magic swords. You're just a guy who learned to shoot a bit of electricity at people and it it, by no means is guaranteed to be fatal.

>>49664815
I'm actually planning a campaign setting built on this premise.

Magic isn't entirely out of players' hands, in the sense that they have absolutely no access to it whatsoever. But player characters can't do magic themselves. Only non-playable races/monsters have magic, so players can only access magic by negotiating or building relationships with NPCs. And said NPCs are all distinctly alien, with their own agendas and preferences that won't necessarily be in the players' best interests on the whole.

>>49665342
fireballs and lightning would definitely change the way war is fought, in the same way that gunpowder did. it would also give the world a much faster path to industry, so should probably be avoided if you don't want either of those.

proper low fantasy magic is the kind that players could debate it's real or not, like the old testament stuff

In my current game magic is hard to come by.
Wizards of high level are rare and reclusive. They certainly don't share arcane knowledge due to other wizards being their competition.
Also spells learned have to actually be researched.
Aka time/gold sink.
The general population is superstitious of wizards.
And cleric orders can/will hunt them down.
Its more or less dark ages and dragons.
It works well with 2ed rules.
Had 4-8 players going strong once a week for a year + now.
And ones a Wizard.

Low fantasy =/= Low magic

>>49664594
Just some food for thought, what about a setting, where magic is easily available to anybody with access to it's books, but the caster has to pay a sacrifice of his own to use it? (For example, gaining permanent penalizations or permanently decreased stats)

>>49664594
If you are playing low fantasy, NONE OF PCS SHOULD HAVE ACCESS TO MAGIC. They can experience it as plot device, they might find some witch or sage or some magical artifact, but the moment any PC is magic user, the shit hits the fan.

Setting-wise, treat magic as just narrative device, instead of actually providing mechanics and god-forbid if it's about well-defined powers or spell-casting in the D&D sense

>>49665705
This.

The only good low fantasy ever made was the one from Thief vidya, at least from Dark and Metal Age. It's pretty much the lowest possible fantasy, but that doesn't stop the first game from revolving around god of chaos being all-powerful being (but that still can be pretty easily brought down), a motherfucking dryad on his service and a lot of shit that normally is haram in low fantasy as "too fantastic", while still providing the feeling of being one step away from just "real world setting".

>>49666092
Thief isn't even low fantasy anyway. "Low fantasy" means that it's set in the real world, but with fantastical elements included. "High fantasy" means that it's set in a fictional world. The prominence of fantastical elements is entirely separate from the low/high fantasy distinction.

Harry Potter is low fantasy. A Song of Ice and Fire (even in the earliest parts when the fantastical elements like dragons and magic were basically just legend) is high fantasy.

>>49665412
I had thought of a setting similar to>>49665546, where the country outright banned magic for religious reasons, but with some remaining populations and people who have preserved some knowledge and still practice it, albeit far less proficiently than the ancient people who lived there.

The country rely on technology and gunpowder, and also has to defend against an expanding empire which prefer using magic. In the Empire, wizards are scholars or/and warriors who spend years studying the old scriptures to try to master their powers.

That way the only magic you'll see will either be in war, or with some rare sorcerers whom everyone hate

>>49666280
that is a wildly different class scheme than any I have heard

>>49666280
>"Low fantasy" means that it's set in the real world, but with fantastical elements included.
>"High fantasy" means that it's set in a fictional world
It's the most retarded definition of both low and high fantasy I've read this year. Congratu-fucking-lations

>>49666280
>the marvel universe is low fantasy
>technically, lotr is low fantasy

>>49666338
So basically Polish "Monastyr"? Where using magic will end with being tortured and/or burned to death, while outside the bunch of squibbling human nations, there is entire world of non-human races, magic and fantastic creatures, all condemned as "satanic" by the human religion that reads like an expy of counter-reformation Catholic Church (the setting is vaguely baroque)

>>49666489
It's the one that the terminology was originally coined to refer to, and the one that is still generally understood in literary genre discussions.

However, the terms have evolved in general layman's usage to refer to the degree of fantasticality. Frankly, this is a damn shame, because it's destroying a very useful classification terminology. As evidenced by this very thread, the "high/low fantasticality" interpretation of "high/low fantasy" is virtually synonymous with "high/low magic". So by using "high/low fantasy" to refer to "high/low fantasticality", you're turning a set of terms coined to refer to a specific thing for which there isn't really any alternative shorthand terminology into a synonym for something we already have words for.

>>49666497
Maybe you should try reading more than just Taiwanese interpretive dance forums, friend.

>>49666555
>technically, lotr is low fantasy
Only technically, though. It's not recognizably so on its own, only stated by author fiat.

>>49666576
that seems like an almost useless distinction though, as opposed to the very useful distinction of how fantastic the work is.
Is it highly fantastic but set in our world? fuck you it's low fantasty

In low fantasy, ideally magic should only belong to antagonists, with the players/protagonists unsure of how it works.

Even if players are using it, it should be very limited. I'd keep shit like fireballs, flying, telekinesis or passing through walls to high fantasy games. Players should only be able to do subtle stuff with long rituals. Like summoning a spirit that answers your questions, albeit cryptically. Or praying to a forest god to bless you with a good hunt.

I like to keep it contained to more spiritual, ritualistic forms, like fortune telling and whatnot. Make it so that it's unclear if the party have actually witnessed magic or if the caster is a hack that used smoke and mirrors to trick them.

>>49666562
I didn't know Monastyr but yes, it's very similar, except non human race also exist within the human nations. Elves and dwarves are mostly enslaved and are basically the jews of the setting, with a Church omnipresent which tries to smash any attempt of reformation or reinterpretation of the holy books

>>49666693
Just because you insist on misreading the meaning of the term doesn't mean it's useless.

The "low/high" descriptor in "low/high fantasy" isn't like the "low/high" in "low/high temperature", but rather like in "low/high church". It's not like "high church" traditions are "more religious" than "low church", it's just a term used to refer to two distinct categories.

And by similar token, just because you personally care more about the degree of fantasticality rather than the nature of the setting doesn't mean the latter distinction is useless.

>>49666576
>>49666798
>Just because you insist on misreading the meaning of the term doesn't mean it's useless.
The only person misreading anything at all is you, but here, grab the reply you are so desperate for

And for the record - the shit you try to pass as "low fantasy" has different name. It's called "magical realism", you moron. Nice way to show you are just attention-seeking whore.

File: 1474802515087.jpg (70KB, 500x600px) Image search: [Google]

70KB, 500x600px

>>49666280
What the actual fuck?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_fantasy

High fantasy is a subgenre of fantasy,[1] defined either by its setting in an imaginary world or by the epic stature of its characters, themes, and plot.[2] The term "high fantasy" was coined by Lloyd Alexander in a 1971 essay, "High Fantasy and Heroic Romance".[2]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_fantasy

Low fantasy is a subgenre of fantasy fiction involving "nonrational happenings that are without causality or rationality because they occur in the rational world where such things are not supposed to occur."[1] Low fantasy stories are set either in the real world or a fictional but rational world, and are contrasted with high fantasy stories, which take place in a completely fictional fantasy world setting with its own set of rules and physical laws.

Can we try to understand shit before shitposting?

>>49666886
he's right tho, unfortunately.
same as 'sinister' meaning left-handed, and just as obsolete a usage

>>49666280
>"Low fantasy" means that it's set in the real world, but with fantastical elements included. "High fantasy" means that it's set in a fictional world.
only in literature

video games and tabletop games have used a different definition for many decades

I don't know anything about thief and can't comment on whether it's low or high fantasy, but the literary "definition" of high/low fantasy does not apply.

>>49666898
I still use the terms "dexter" and "sinister" in setting if I have players that understand it.

>>49666891
>Role-playing games use a different definition of the genre, defining it as closer to realism than to mythic in scope. This can mean that some works, for example Robert E. Howard's Conan the Barbarian series, can be high fantasy in literary terms but low fantasy in gaming terms; while with other works, such as the TV series Supernatural, the opposite is true.

>>49666857
>>49666886
We must have gotten a fresh crop of newfags recently. I remember a time when /tg/ knew about this.

File: 1473224974063.jpg (367KB, 1024x1737px) Image search: [Google]

367KB, 1024x1737px

>tfw the thread has turned into an etymological debate

Alright, let's talk about low magic then, how make it work ?

>>49667050
well in our world, magic doesn't exist.
so clearly all magic would have to be high magic.
I'm so good at classification

File: 1472147961552.jpg (770KB, 1920x1306px) Image search: [Google]

770KB, 1920x1306px

>>49667078
Anon please, don't make it more complicated than it already is...

File: cat.jpg (45KB, 268x265px) Image search: [Google]

45KB, 268x265px

>>49664594
Well in my current dieselpunk low-magic campaign

>replacing low-powered magic items with mechanical counterparts

>keep magic users underground due to most states state's "Magicians, Serve us or straight to the gas chambers/ secret police reeducation camp" policy.

>Wild magic fucking shit up so large scale use of magicians is dangerous

>Demons & neutral spirits love magic users (So tasty)

>>49664594
I like it if Magic is really fucking powerful, but more manipulative than creative (like divination, telepathy and enchanting, as opposed to elemental magic).
Also it should be rare as fuck, very demanding on the user and preferably not in the player's hands. If a player must be a magic user it should be reflected by the world around him that magic is not at all common by the reaction of NPCs etc.

>>49666898
It's like both him and you (assuming this is not just samefaggotry) never heard about language drift.

>>49666976
Yes, and I remember the dinosaurs, cool time.
Have it EVER occured to you that language is not something static? I don't know, you still call people gay when they are joyful?

>>49667050
Go read GURPS: Thaumatology
Because there is too much stuff and ideas in it to just sum it up in 2k sign-limit post. Or even few threads.

>>49666891
>2016
>Unironically using wikipedia as source
I mean you could at least TRY and go for online version of some dictionary... or just Brittanica...

>>49667220
>post points out language drift
>it's like you never heard about language drift

>>49667258
If you acknowledge language drift, then WHY THE FUCK you even bother with meaning that no longer applies?
This is some higher-tier retardation. Or just poorly-thought bait.

Low magic is really any setting where all magic is uncommon. A player character might be a wizard, but the spells/abilities he has access to are relatively low in power, or not physically tangible/flashy. A wizard might for instance be able to project or scry onto the astral plane, or curse an enemy with a day long ritual. Any flashy effects such as fireballs and lightning bolts should not be impossible, but should be reserved for magic items and high level spells.

Another aspect of low magic could be the source of power or how magic is learned. If they draw their power from dealings with spirits or some otherworldly being, that takes some of the strength out of the usually individualist wizard. Also, learning magic from an alien or something like that might mean the wizard doesn't understand how the magic works.

>>49667287
Anon, we are talking about low fantasy settings and magic in it, not low magic settings.
Those things aren't the same. You can easily have high-magic setting that is in the same time the lowest of low fantasy and vice-versa

>>49667302
Not him but I thought we were in fact talking about low magic, since low fantasy means that it's a realistic world

>>49665223
Kult does ritual magic WAY better.

>>49664594
Ask yourself, wwdadted? and go with that, never fails

What would D&D third edition do?

>>49667316
Read again the topic of this thread.
Or the discussion that follows.

Because you did that already before posting, right?


>>49667330
GURPS does it better than Kult

>>49667503
>in games, low fantasy means less fantastic, contrasting to the literary definition, meaning it takes place in our world
get out of here /lit/

The only game I've been that did this ok (at least from a player's point of view) imo was a E6 game

>>49667503
OP talked about magic in low fantasy, but as some anons noticed, low fantasy can also mean a realistic world with magic in it, which I'm not sure OP knew when he posted, and I found that the guy >>49667287 you were talking to made some interesting points about low magic, so please calm your tits

>>49667503
>GURPS does it better than Kult

I seriously doubt it.

>>49664594
What is low fantasy?

>>49667593
it's fantasy where everyone is short. If you have a tall character, it's high fantasy

>>49667593
What is life ?

Alright let's see:
>no spellcaster PC
>Magic must be rare, reserved for villains or ancient shit, so it can easily blend in superstition and mystery
>it must be costly, for example slow or demanding on time and energy, precise timing like eclipses and shit

What am I forgetting ?

>>49668010
>no necromancy, dead people stay dead
>different styles like animal control, alchemy, incantation, multicasting spells and such

>>49666280
It's amazing how every time someone explains what high and low fantasy are, it's a different explanation.

File: subtle_magic.jpg (16KB, 300x400px) Image search: [Google]

16KB, 300x400px

>>49664594
>Your magicians can create fireballs
Not really low fantasy at that point.

Think the easiest way would be to only allow ritual magic - kinda like you see in most movies of this theme (Conan, Excalibur, etc.) *maybe* with the occasional "excusable" magic, ie. Jedi-mind trick, and alchemical bits, such as detect/cure poison. Spectacular magic requiring time, circles, material components, special locations - not something you can do on the fly in combat.

Problem with this is it doesn't let your wizards do much in a combat heavy game.

A more complex and more interesting alternative, would be to let magic do almost anything, but only if it can be explained away by coincidence - which is kind of what you have going in oWoD "Mage", in "coincidental" magic. This does involve a constant battle of wits between player's trying to explain how crazy shit happened and the GM though. In Mage, however, you can violate coincidence at the expense of gaining Paradox, which slowly drives you insane and eventually kicks you out of reality with repeated violations. (This was additionally limited by nine spheres of magic rated 1-5.)

And yet another alternative is to not allow magic to directly affect the material world. You can see auras and commune with spirits (invisible with limited powers within their domains), apply long-term curses that maybe entirely psychological, basically, anything that can be explained away by psychosomatic effect. Burn incense to boost party stats, mutter curses to reduce enemy stats, detect evil, predict the weather, maybe even affect it to a degree, the sort of things shamanic legends tend to revolve around, but could easily be dismissed by someone who didn't believe in magic, even if, in this case, magic may indeed be real.

Tossing a fireball from your hand isn't exactly low fantasy. Calling up a thunderstorm with a lengthy ritual and causing it to pull down lightning bolts on an approaching army is a bit more within the realm though.

>>49668186
So, in short, individual, on the fly magic should stay incidental and shamanic, the "jedi trick", and the more ancient, resource costly magic could be more powerful ?

That's quite neat and coherent

>>49667050
It depends on how you define magic.

I mean, going with the simple "trying to use your will to effect change on the world by performing certain actions." Then that's easy.

People have been doing that since the dawn of time and still do it.

You ever seen those locks on a bridge?

They're designed to help love remain true, as a form of magic.

Sure, you ask anyone about them, and they wouldn't think about it like that, but what we label superstition or tradition, are attempts at controlling the macrocosm by manipulating the microcosm. Or magic.

Also https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DY-Zdgo0OXo

>>49668295
Trick is coming up with a specific system for it that won't be rule-lawyered to death.

There are existing systems (such as the aforementioned "Mage"), but keeping players within their bounds, particularly if their gaming experience consists of medieval combat-simulators and hack-and-slash, rather than the more nuanced bent, can be difficult.

Most games of this sort do have an exception to the rule, where wizards can go all out, and that is battles that take place between mages in spiritual realms - which lets the mages have their "holy fucking shit" moments without breaking reality. Similarly, mages may see things that mortals do not, such a giant demons stomping about, where everyone else only sees a forest fire or plague.

As yet another alternative - I wish I had the documentation for it, and I know I've seen the PDF about here somewhere - basically involves drawing interlocking runes in real time to do any magic. The only time we ever used that, however, everyone was a spellcaster, and the drawfags certainly had an advantage. Was fun though.

>>49667587
... then read Cult Magic and see for yourself.

>>49668376
>I'm not going to describe the system in any way, I'm not going to tell why or how I think it's better, I'm just going to claim it's better and then tell you to hunt down some book somewhere and read it

Go fuck yourself.

>>49668010
>Reserved fo villains
FUCK NO
Absolutely fucking no.

... unless, of course, you want to have evil sorceror as your villain. But other than that - magic is reserved to plot device. No fucking spells, period. Rituals and incantations at best. Dunno, remember the utterly horrible Snow White and Huntsmen? It still had a great way of handling pretty high magic in otherwise extremely low fantasy setting.

>>49668400
Mate, what the fuck are you really expecting?
The book is 300 pages long and it contains nothing but info dump how to kit-bash different itterations of ritual magic. There is also entire LINE of books describing non-standard magic systems, grand total of 8 of them
And you want me to describe it?

I'm not sure you are aware how GURPS works

Also, the very same thing applies to your original post - you didn't say SHIT about how magic is handled in Kult, just called it superior to Pathfinder, out of all things. It's like saying about water that it's wet.

>>49668401
Yeah I want a sorcerer as villain. Guy is a genius who found an old book and learned magic with it. He's promising anti church reformists help from his behalf, in order to cover his track, when he in fact doesn't give two shit about them

File: GURPS 4E - Thaumatology - Ritual Path Magic.pdf (1B, 486x500px)

1B, 486x500px

>>49668400
>Hunt some book
>GURPS supplement rulebook

Here, grab it, you lazy piece of shit, the bare essence of the concept. Without reading through general Thaumatology book it's barely comprehensive, but you asked for it, asshole.
I guess you must be really new on /tg/ if you are this tier unfamiliar with GURPS

>>49668439
Not the anon you are replying to, but he's at least right about the Snow White part. Horrible film, great way of handling powerful magic in otherwise down-to-Earth setting that had absolutely nothing fantastic in it.

>>49668429
>Also, the very same thing applies to your original post - you didn't say SHIT about how magic is handled in Kult, just called it superior to Pathfinder, out of all things. It's like saying about water that it's wet.
And if someone had expressed disbelief I would've explained myself instead of telling them to read a 300 page book and figure it out themselves.

File: 1369869.png (56KB, 447x265px) Image search: [Google]

56KB, 447x265px

>>49668400
>I'm too lazy to visit nearby GURPS General
>Go fuck yourself

>>49668429

typical GURPS goon, will tell someone to read the entire book, but not why it'd be worthwhile to do so

>>49668512
Look at the GURPS fanboys in this thread and tell me you'd want to go anywhere near GURPS general. It's not laziness, it's disgust.

>>49668497
I've expressed disbelief. And what you did? Attacked me about it.
And tell me something - since when "reading is bad" became a thing on /tg/? Because last time I've checked, ALL tabletops RPGs required shitload of reading to even start playing.

But why should you read, if you just fucking know you are right and I am wrong, just because you are too fucking lazy to bother. In moments like that I'm no longer perplexed people are cemented in one system and one system only - beause that's the only system they've ever read, so even if they've tried something else, they didn't bother reading it and thus remained with that one, first system they've picked up years ago, for better or worse.

Variety is the spice of life. But who cares, if you are not even going to move your ass and read.

>>49668470

close your browser and don't reopen it. you're the one promoting this dissatisfactory turd of a book to begin with

>>49668548

sometimes i like to have a reason to spend the next few hours on your whim, man

>>49668548
>variety is the spice of life
>but I've never played anything but GURPS and maybe D&D or WoD

There are many games - majority, in fact - that DON'T require a fuckton of reading, as a matter of fact. I like reading, but I'm not going to read a 300 page GURPS supplement I have no interest in just because some faggot claims the system in it is "better" in some undefinable manner.

>>49668525
>>49668540
>>49668556
>>49668573
The reason was stated before the shitstorm even started.
It does ritual magic better than Kult.
And if reading through 50 pages takes you "few hours", maybe change hobby. Apparently tabletops are not for you.

>>49668591
>but I've never played anything but GURPS and maybe D&D or WoD
Nice you know better than me what I've played, but keep trying.
And just like the other anon said, if reading 50 pages is "fuckton of reading", TTRPG is just not for you. Or you didn't even bother to check the book in question, while being already spoon-fed beyond any point or sense?

File: popcorn.gif (495KB, 500x375px) Image search: [Google]

495KB, 500x375px

>>49668591
>300 page GURPS supplement
>Scan has 56 pages in total
There is such saying around where I live: "if you are chin-deep in mud - stop digging"

>>49668596

50 pages of cross-referenced rules to a couple other books you're saying need to be read for it to even be worth using?

stay in gurps general. you can't contribute to anything else, apparently.

>>49668429
>>49668617
>The book is 300 pages long and it contains nothing but info dump how to kit-bash different itterations of ritual magic
>suddenly it's 50 pages
Lolfaggot.

>>49668591
>HURRR I'M NOT GOING TO HUNT FOR THE BOOK DURRRR
>Said book is few threads apart
>Being spoon-fed the specific book
>HURRRR NOT GONNA READ SO MUCH TEXT DURRR
>The book is 52 pages long, including preface
Golden
Just fucking golden.

And supposedly summer ended a month ago

>>49668650
>Anon A talks about Full Rule Book
>Anon B gives Trimmed Down Version
Gee, how this could happen!

But hey, keep bitching, that will totally be productive!

>>49668679
Just stop. You're doing nothing but making GURPS fans look bad.

File: Plato.jpg (245KB, 800x1000px) Image search: [Google]

245KB, 800x1000px

>>49668643
I guess every excuse is good to stay in the cave...

>>49668708
Let me get this straight.
I'm giving bad image to GURPS fags by spoon-feeding an obnoxious and lazy asshole with the very book he wanted and started bitching about it being unaccessable?
Or I'm giving them a bad image, because pointing out this is a short version and can be read in no time to compare with other system?
Or I'm giving them a bad image, because I'm not even going to pretend it's possible to trim down already trimmed down version from 52 pages to fucking 2.000 sign post?

File: 1473610359424.jpg (42KB, 500x357px) Image search: [Google]

42KB, 500x357px

>after the etymology war comes the book war

File: 97397-DGzSZ8h.png (219KB, 1024x841px) Image search: [Google]

219KB, 1024x841px

>>49668774
At least this one gave me a book my collection was lacking

>>49668756
You're giving them a bad image by being an obnoxious and elitist asshole who can't even answer a simple question.

File: Beyond.png (547KB, 374x667px) Image search: [Google]

547KB, 374x667px

>>49668556
>Ritual Path Magic
>Literally one of few GURPS books than is fresh, original and useful in any given system, any given setting
>dissatisfactory turd of a book

File: Sweet Jesus, help me.gif (2MB, 250x188px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 250x188px

>>49668788
>Elitist
Does this word means anything anymore on 4chan?
The fuck it even has to do with anything?
Or what unasked question wasn't answered, you twat? All that was said was DOUBT about RPM being better than Kult. No question asked. No problem raised. Instead, instant personal attack with green-text.

Apparently reading books is elitist now

>>49668849
>>49668788
Please, gentlemen, could we go back on topic ?

>>49668788
Only that no question was asked, you moron. Just a short recap:
>>49667330
>>49667503
>>49667587
>>49668376
>>49668400
See here any questions being asked whatsoever?

>>49668862
But the topic was already exhausted somewhere around here:
>>49668364
Everything that follows is unrelated argument between two or more idiots.

>>49666280
Screencaped for posterity.

>>49666280
Nigga what?

>>49668883
What are good examples of low wizardry going on ? What everyday use could a sorcerer have with magic when he's not planning a great blood ritual with his secret friends ?

File: it depends.jpg (34KB, 425x340px) Image search: [Google]

34KB, 425x340px

>>49669058
No, really, it depends on numerous factors, let's outline the bare-bones basics:
- how does the magic operate in the setting
- how is it "fueled" (so do you need sacrifices and stuff like that)
- what it can achieve
- how reliable it is
- how it achieves things
Because nobody is going to murder 40 virgins just to cast a fireball, knocking down a single oak doors.

>>49667647
What is love?