/scg/ - Scion General

>>49662731
>American Gods is the ur source for this whole game's idea
Except the game never has been any good at pulling it off and is getting further away from it with every passing day. You can say that Gygax INTENDED D&D to do Elric of Melnibone all you like, it doesn't make it anymore of the game.

>>49662815
>Except the game never has been any good at pulling it off and is getting further away from it with every passing day.
I'd argue it's getting better at it.

The original game did not take into account multiple versions of deities. This new version has aspects, multiple versions of deities (like the Greek/Roman pantheon).

This actually enables the stories that existed in American Gods far more, as one of my favorite scenes in that book was when Shadow went and met another version of Odin to give Mr. Wednesday's glass eye.

That scene wasn't possible in old Scion. With some mild alterations to the core setting, it's totally possible in this one.

Granted yes, it doesn't tell the same setting. That said, the current setting is NOTHING like Wicked+Divine. There's no 90-year cycle, no 2-year life limit, and none of that other shit that was fundamental to the plot. This game is as divorced from that setting as it is from American Gods. It takes inspiration from both, not concepts whole-cloth.

>>49662815
Not saying its good or not, but the game owes a lot to American Gods in the modern fantasy fan group consciousness.

>>49662852
>Granted yes, it doesn't tell the same setting. That said, the current setting is NOTHING like Wicked+Divine. There's no 90-year cycle, no 2-year life limit, and none of that other shit that was fundamental to the plot. This game is as divorced from that setting as it is from American Gods. It takes inspiration from both, not concepts whole-cloth.

Thank you, yes this. The game is...not really a pastiche but it is something that owes a lot to several different media lineages. I'm sure the inevitable 'what is a role playing game? What is Scion?' intro segment that we'll get in the core book will probably provide an extensive list of influences

Night, /scg/. Be here when I get off work tomorrow, I hope.

>>49662912
>comics as inspiration
>jerking off to kieron gillen

Nigga better have some incredible hercules up ins.

>>49662509
It's not explicitly not American Gods. It's just more The Wicked + The Divine.

>>49662815
I don't see how it's "getting further away from it with each passing day".
I don't see why it was particularly bad at it in 1e.

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>>49662731
Tell me about Agent of Asgard.

>>49663406
>I don't see why it was particularly bad at it in 1e.
It wasn't, but it wasn't intended to emulate American Gods exactly anyways.

For one thing, there is no Backstage. For another, there aren't multiple versions of gods. Lastly, there are no New Gods (so far as we know).

Essentially, Fatebinding was a concept heavily inspired by American Gods. The idea of followers influencing the gods through belief was a key element of the story, and informed the audience about the machinations of the characters throughout. The idea of gods laying low to avoid this effect is also something that was crucial to the story, and something that also existed in Scion.

The new edition has aspects for gods, which means that there can be technically multiple versions of the same god. If anything, this enables stories more akin to American Gods moreso than the original game did.

Now they just need to add Backstage. Would it count as Terra Incognita, or part of the Overworld?

>>49663446
>Lastly, there are no New Gods (so far as we know).
Wasn't there a supplement for Johnny Appleseed and Columbia and Uncle Sam? Or was that just a fan thing?

Also, I don't remember American Gods or The Backstage, but from making assumptions, I'm going to say it's a Terra Incognita.

>>49663431
It's pretty much Fatebinding: The Comic. Loki got reborn in a younger body and wants to stop being evil, but because there are so many stories of him being an evil shit to Thor, he's locked into that role. He's doing secret jobs for Asgard, in exchange for these stories being erased from memory so he can be something other than the god of evil.

>>49663620

That sounds fucking terrible and stupid.

>>49663637
It's actually pretty good. Completely inaccurate to the real mythology, but that's Marvel for you.

>>49663589
That was the WWII splat.

>>49663589
>Wasn't there a supplement for Johnny Appleseed and Columbia and Uncle Sam? Or was that just a fan thing?
Yeah, but those weren't like the New Gods. They were Technical Boy (internet), Media and Spookshow (Men in Black). The idea being that the modern purveyors of modern myths take on a divine life of their own as well.

>Also, I don't remember American Gods or The Backstage, but from making assumptions, I'm going to say it's a Terra Incognita.
It's the area behind where everything happens. Imagine the area behind the curtain at a theatre. The stage itself is reality, the Backstage is where gods can sneak to when they need to get around quickly.

In the book, Mr. Wednesday uses it to escape people pursuing him and Shadow. It's also where the final divine conflict occurs.

>>49663431

He is the crime that will not be forgiven.

>>49663774
>Yeah, but those weren't like the New Gods.
Same concept, though.

>>49664074
>Same concept, though.
Not quite. The characters from the WWII supplement were folk heroes. The new gods were the by-product of our consumerist society... people obsess and worship the internet and media... and people believe in conspiracies about the Men in Black... and these beliefs and obsessions gave power and existence to the new gods.

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>>49663589
>>49663713
I think that entire book, Scion Companion, was an attempt to cash in on things fans of the game were asking for. Tuatha de Dannan in particular was one of those things that an obscene amount of people wanted. The problem is they didn't seem to do due diligence to the lore for the add-on pantheons, so they got some aspects of gods completely and flagrantly wrong.

And then on top of that their relics for the example scions - they give one of the Celtic ones a version of the Spear of Lugh that basically poofs into hammerspace when not in use, in complete defiance of the requirement for Boons to be channeled through relics that can actually be stolen.

And then you have the WW2 section that's just WTF all around - why there's a Yankee pantheon made up of propaganda posters and tall tales who were never viewed as gods, why said fledgling Yankee pantheon can beat three of the oldest and most storied pantheons, why the Yankee deities are nearly devoid of purviews outside Industry...

>>49664542
MURIKA.

>>49663406
American Gods was about the mythical manifests in the modern day in subtle, surreal ways as legends are retold around everyday objects and situations, always on the edge of perception. It's a story where a beautiful immigrant woman in a bathrobe can be Zorja Utrennjaja and give you the moon, and it's a silver dollar.

Scion is a game where you punch a dragon across the street then shoot it with your lightning pistol.

Now, it's the same, except everyone also recognizes you as the son of Thor and you have your own line of lightning themed magical haircare products.

>>49664674
>Scion is a game where you punch a dragon across the street then shoot it with your lightning pistol.
The subtle options are there, too. They've always been. That they aren't glossed upon by optimizers does not mean they aren't present.

>>49664742
Yet every single bit of fiction we've ever gotten was about shooting giant monsters, all the sample characters are geared towards shooting giant monsters, and all the example adventures are about shooting giant monsters. You could jury rig the game into something subtle but it's very, very, very clearly not what it was written with in mind.

>>49664769
>all the sample characters are geared towards shooting giant monsters
Donnie Rhodes is the shittiest combat character in existence then, considering that his entire focus is on Epic Appearance.

Shit, only Eric and Yukiko are actually combat builds. Everybody else has secondary combat skills at best. You're just full of shit, mang.

>You could jury rig the game into something subtle but it's very, very, very clearly not what it was written with in mind.
Yeah, because Manipulation is definitely an attribute built around blunt violence and force, and could never be used for subtly manipulating people.

Nope, no sir. Not at all. Nor are there such purviews like Chaos, which tend to be more utilitarian than pure combat. And of course fate magic is pure combat too.

[/sarcasm]

>>49664674
>American Gods was about the mythical manifests in the modern day in subtle, surreal ways as legends are retold around everyday objects and situations, always on the edge of perception.

I see you forgot about the massive fight that happens Backstage, or the several rather gorey fights that happen before it (usually involving Laura).

>>49665816
>Backstage
A psychedelic, dreamlike sequence taking place outside the sight of any mortal.
>fights with Laura
Gritty, low-key, with a focus on the visceral and the shocking. None of your superheroes kicking people through the wall shit.
>Donnie Rhodes is the shittiest combat character in existence then, considering that his entire focus is on Epic Appearance.
Just because the devs are bad at making effective characters doesn't mean their social specialist doesn't still have fucking wings and a pair of fucking social pistols. It's hilariously over the top.

Please, keep proving me right. You're saving me a lot of work.

>>49665844
>A psychedelic, dreamlike sequence taking place outside the sight of any mortal.
They have those kinds of regions in Scion. Not exactly Backstage, but they do have similar things.

>Gritty, low-key, with a focus on the visceral and the shocking. None of your superheroes kicking people through the wall shit.
Yeah, nothing supernatural about your undead girlfriend tearing a group of trained guards apart with her bare hands.

>Just because the devs are bad at making effective characters doesn't mean their social specialist doesn't still have fucking wings and a pair of fucking social pistols. It's hilariously over the top.
So you openly admit that your autistic ass is only butthut that White Wolf made the sample band around a specific style of play, and that this has nothing to do with whether or not subtlety is actually possible or existent in the setting?

Well at least you admitted you're a shitbag. Saves me some time.

>>49665996
>They have those kinds of regions in Scion. Not exactly Backstage, but they do have similar things.
And if you run your entire World of Darkness game in Arcadia having swordfights with dragons, it can be a fantasy game. Your point?
>Yeah, nothing supernatural about your undead girlfriend tearing a group of trained guards apart with her bare hands.
>supernatural=spectacular
No, you moron, the point was that it wasn't. Do you even remember what your argument originally was?
>
So you openly admit that your autistic ass is only butthut that White Wolf made the sample band around a specific style of play, and that this has nothing to do with whether or not subtlety is actually possible or existent in the setting?
Goalposts? What goalposts? There were never any golaposts. Certainly not here there weren't.

>>49666033
>No, you moron, the point was that it wasn't. Do you even remember what your argument originally was?
I remember that your argument was that there is no epic action in American Gods. It's all subtlety and trickery. And in stark contrast, Scion is a setting with no subtlety whatsoever, and nothing but the capacity for overt action.

I'm showing you that you're retardedly wrong in both instances. There is high-octane action in American Gods, and subtlety and intrigue in Scion. That the author's of Scion 1E mostly focused on the action with regards to sample characters, nor that you mostly ignore the action that existed in American Gods, make your statement correct.

>Goalposts? What goalposts? There were never any golaposts. Certainly not here there weren't.
Certainly not goalposts you'd make an effort to meet.

>>49666062
>I remember that your argument was that there is no epic action in American Gods. It's all subtlety and trickery. And in stark contrast, Scion is a setting with no subtlety whatsoever, and nothing but the capacity for overt action.

No, that's the strawman you've built.

Try again, looking more closely this time.

>>49666109
>My argument is shitty, I'd better call it a Strawman!
Look, you wanna tell me that the writers of Scion haven't got shit on Gaiman, and that the metaplot they've painted doesn't have a fraction of the quality of the greater setting that he was painting in that novel, then I agree with you.

But if you wanna sit here and say that people are incapable of even trying to use Scion to play out the same sort of shit that occurred in American Gods, you're just being a contrarian dick.

And that's ALWAYS what I was arguing against. Now how was that a Strawman in context of what you said in >>49664674?

Please, I'm all ears.

>reads thread
>the whole thing is iwasonlypretendingtoberetarded.jpg

>>49663446
>there is no Backstage

Yes and no. The Backstage was just the mythic realm, interpreted by Shadow as something he could understand so his brain didn't dribble out his ears very fast. In Scion, you could step into secret areas of the world, you were just capable of comprehending it when you did so.

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>>49666224
I had fun talking about Scion in random Scion threads over the years.

/scg/ is cancer which I am 90% sure was started by someone affiliated with the dev team to pump the kickstarter, and 100% sure that two of the most frequent posters are autists from the OPP forums who cannot make an argument to save their life, but will argue with literally anyone over anything.

But 6 times bitten, twice shy. Now I realise I can ignore /scg/, make a thread about Scion if I want to actually talk about the game, and have a much better time.

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>>49666224
Have more delicious Kali.

>>49663383
Shit yeah I do. And Simonson's Thor. And Kirby's New Gods. But JiM really is pretty good, as was Ewing on Agent of Asgard

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>>49663637
Nah, it is honestly a natural continuation of some themes started in JiM where Loki is reborn after his death in Siege and spends the whole time trying to escape his past, essentially providing a template for Incarnate Scions, but in the end he makes too many bargains and cons too many people and he is forced to die, allowing a memory of old Loki from before to take over his new comparatively fresh slate. Who has since then been paying for committing the crime that will not be forgiven through the duration of Agent of Asgard.

It sounds kind of dumb but in practice it honestly is really cool, as long as you don't Marvel playing fast and loose with mythological canon.

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>>49667388

>>49666941
>/scg/ is cancer which I am 90% sure was started by someone affiliated with the dev team to pump the kickstarter
Nah, Jakki is behind it. He's just a giant Scion fag, not involved with anything besides the forum. You're almost certainly right about the other guess

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>>49667405

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>>49667437

>>49666224
That's because there's Aspel and some fuck from the OPP forums and neither of them know how to quit arguing.

>>49664674
>r and you have your own line of lightning themed magical haircare products.
Holy shit yes, I'm going to use that in a game at some point now.

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https://vimeo.com/ocastwebseries

Does anyone know what happened to these people? There were six episodes, but their youtube channel is dead and the vimeo one only has four.

New anthology fiction is almost funded, which I'm pretty excited for, but after that is the audio drama that's also some kind of experiment in a CYOA audiobook? Is anyone actually interested in that? It sounds weirdly experimental

>>49669824

It doesn't really matter, Eddy Webb's part of the company so it was going to be a stretch goal no matter what.

>>49669824
I'm okay with it. That, along with the LARP rules, are both under my "shit I'm interested in, even if I have doubts about whether I'll ever use it" bin of thought.

>>49664674
>It's a story where a beautiful immigrant woman in a bathrobe can be Zorja Utrennjaja and give you the moon, and it's a silver dollar.
Except that's still a thing that can happen.

>>49665844
No one is arguing that Scion isn't heavily focused on action adventure. But that doesn't mean that it's somehow not inspired by American Gods.

>>49666109
>American Gods was about the mythical manifests in the modern day in subtle, surreal ways as legends are retold around everyday objects and situations, always on the edge of perception.
That's exactly what you said, though. I'm quoting you here.
American Gods=subtlety and trickery on the edge of Perception
Scion=none of that

>>49667488
I was asleep.
No, what's going on is that we keep getting random people who barely seem to understand Scion wanting to shit on 2e.

>>49669824
>some kind of experiment in a CYOA audiobook?
wut

>>49670783
You mean you aren't up posting at all hours? But now who can be the bogeyman in the closet?

>>49670912
I was in the closet, I was just asleep.
There's another boogeyman under the bed.

>>49670801
Its an interactive audio drama. I don't know what that means or how you do it. I assume scripting it like a CYOA and whatever medium you play it through presenting you with choices of which segment to play next?

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>>49669824
Anthology is go. 15 days to raise the 15k for the final stretch goal... jesus this thing flew through goals fast.

>>49673777
Fuck the audio drama. I want one more pantheon. Most kickstarters get a big surge in the last few days, I'm hoping we carry past the audio drama or whatever comes after it to get to another pantheon or another expanded segment of the Companion

>>49673923
This.

Sumerian pantheon fucking when

>>49675445
Pretty sure they're actually slated for Demigod.

So Scion 2e isn't going to be out for a while, I'm going to be running a 1e game soon. Is the adventure path in Scion Ragnarok worth running or no? Knowing my group, they wouldn't want to be pigeonholed into one specific pantheon, which is my major concern with it.

I've got a home brew I've been working on for a while that is basically my group playing themselves until "Suddenly Visitation!" and then dicking around in our local area/state. That's going to end up being more lighthearted and less serious than what Ragnarok looks to be leading up to.

>>49675522
>Knowing my group, they wouldn't want to be pigeonholed into one specific pantheon, which is my major concern with it.
Then don't do it. Just let them make a mixed band, and start them off running down a Titan cult or something.

>>49675522
>playing themselves
This is always stupid.

When your pantheon is full of warriors and war gods, what does an enterprising deity have to do to stand out against his peers?

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>>49663431

>>49676373
Be a flaky Water trickster Psychopomp.

>>49676411
Sure, like totally reinventing yourself is easy.

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>>49677120
You just gotta learn how to exist in the spaces they don't, or better, can't. Convention is defied by being unconventional. You got a bunch of uppity grand strategist war gods that like doing head-to-head confrontations? Be the sneaky ambush guy. Be the spymaster intel gatherer. Be the master of logistics.

>>49677388
You make me want to play a modern samurai scion from a different pantheon than expected trying to stick it to the kami for being racists. Gonna be the best ever out of contrary heroism

>>49677440
A Peruvian of Japanese descent with an Atzlan visitation from Huitzilopochtli but is a huge weeb goes back to Japan to try and do in the streets what Alberto Fujimori tried to do in politics would be pretty interesting.

>>49677581
>A Peruvian of Japanese descent,[10] Fujimori took refuge in Japan when faced with charges of corruption in 2000. On arriving in Japan he attempted to resign his presidency via fax, but his resignation was rejected by the Congress of the Republic, which preferred to remove him from office by the process of impeachment. Wanted in Peru on charges of corruption and human rights abuses, Fujimori maintained a self-imposed exile until his arrest while visiting Chile in November 2005.[11] He was extradited to face criminal charges in Peru in September 2007.[12]

>In December 2007, Fujimori was convicted of ordering an illegal search and seizure, and was sentenced to six years in prison.[13][14][15] The Supreme Court upheld the decision upon his appeal.[16] In April 2009 Fujimori was convicted of human rights violations and sentenced to 25 years in prison for his role in killings and kidnappings by the Grupo Colina death squad during his government's battle against leftist guerrillas in the 1990s.

>The verdict, delivered by a three-judge panel, marked the first time that an elected head of state has been extradited to his home country, tried, and convicted of human rights violations. Fujimori was specifically found guilty of murder, bodily harm, and two cases of kidnapping.[17][18][19][20][21] In July 2009 Fujimori was sentenced to seven and a half years in prison for embezzlement after he admitted to giving $15 million from the Peruvian treasury to his intelligence service chief, Vladimiro Montesinos.[22] Two months later he pled guilty in a fourth trial to bribery and received an additional six-year term.[23] Under Peruvian law all the sentences must run concurrently, with a maximum length of imprisonment of 25 years.

???

>>49676096
Yeeah. I mean if your friends want to do it, great, but it's a little too close to LARPing tbqh. Most any case where people literally self-insert turns super-cringe pretty fast. Next thing you know the guy the fictitiously fucked the easter bunny is never going to hear the end of it.

>>49677708
The pieces you skipped outline him trying to run for the Japanese parliament under the 'I'm the last samurai' ticket. He lost, of course, but a similar idea of someone not born in Japan going there to be better at being Japanese than the Japanese fits along the same vein, especially since Japan opened its work options to those of Japanese descent from nations the diaspora embedded Japanese into, like Peru, Brazil, the US, etc. The big differences would be that Fujimori was already disgraced in Peru and tried to pull it off on the political stage, whereas this character wouldn't be there with the stain of disgrace already and isn't running for office.

>>49677780
I just grabbed that from the above the fold section.

Let me sing you the song of the Scion of Belobog... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdkBs0VCSX0

>>49678393
He definitely had Epic Stamina, that's for sure. Look at how hard they wound up having to kill him before it finally took.

>>49677581
Hell yes. Stealing this for a rival scion band in my game.

>>49677780
So was he just corrupt or was he crazy too?

>>49677780
Was this related to that crazy dude with a cult of young boy lovers who wound up in a standoff with the cops and committed seppuku?

>>49683942

Nah, that's Yukio Mishima. Completely different guy.

>>49683963
What was his deal, restoring the emperor to power? Trying to reinstate the samurai?

>>49684094

The former, but it was probably a long and complex suicide attempt and a final act to Mishima's long and complicated struggles with his masculinity, with some nationalist political flavoring.

>>49684242
This sounds fascinating. Can you tell the story with a bit more nuance than wikipedia?

>>49677780
Isn't a huge chunk of Japan's populace technically descended from samurai by now? What makes him the last one in his eatimation, a collection of heads of his enemies?

>>49686087
Fujimori was a product of the pre-WW2 diaspora. In his mind, when Japan lost WW2, that ended the samurai in the homeland, so the only remaining ones would be Japanese not born in Japan. He ticketed on the concept that only someone from blood not disgraced by defeat in battle was the only true samurai left in the running for Japan's government, and since he was the only nikkeijin in the running that year (everyone else being native Japanese), that made him 'the last true samurai' vying for a seat in government. He lost badly, though, only getting about 50,000 votes. His indictment happened afterwards, but whether it was the scandal of him being ousted in absentia from Peru's government or because nihonjin got turned off by his "you bitches lost with dishonor and only I can redeem you" talk, you'd have to ask a Japanese voter. I'm guessing both were factors.

NEW PANTHEON PREVIEW BOIS

>>49686478
Nice preview of the Tuatha. Not as whimsical as their previous version, though, and I think they've oversimplified the geas thing.

>>49686478
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B01LwCGSbE8kZDNGdDBWaVJZX2M/view

>>49686684
That may be due to having to make it mechanically comprehensible as a purview

>>49686684
How so re: geas? I'm not familiar with them from 1e having really only read the core's pantheons.

>In the modern age, some claim the Mac Óg has blessed a particular hard-to-find dating website, where hate speech and trollish behavior are grounds for immediate (divine) retribution, and relationships that begin there last a lifetime. Late at night in every time zone, the same radio show broadcasts out of cities across the world, and a soothing voice that hasn't changed in decades takes calls from lonely hearts and miraculously solves their problems. A law firm with no listed number takes tough divorce cases if a plaintiff can find it, helping wronged parties pro bono — its attorneys never lose.

Oh shit nigga, we love connection now.

So are the mechanics not totally shit in this edition?

>>49688765
Considering they built a completely new system weith Scion and Trinity in mind (as opposed to half-assedly adapting a preexisting system that was just "Shadowrun, but we'll use d10s" to begin with), I should fucking well hope so.

>>49688844
I am, shall we say, rather cautious after seeing how much of a fuckup Exalted 3 is.

>>49688765
we dont have them all yet but they look good
check the three system teasers when it was still going under a codename, also the teasers from the kickstarter

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>>49688928
Considering 3e's mechanics are allegedly pretty good, and CofD is good, and they've learned a lot about Kickstarter since Exalted, there's really no reason to worry.
Here, check the preview.

>>49689760
The core system of 3e is pretty good but the Solar charms are a hot mess, cool ideas presented right alongside 'why am I paying for this?' bullshit. I'm reserving judgment for the game in full till we get an Exalt splat whose charms weren't entirely written by Morke to see if they can be consistent.

Is it just me, or do the tutha seem to have fewer purviews per god then the theoi?

>>49689988
Some. They tend to vary. A bunch of purviews doesn't mean you're super-god or something, it just means their legend covered them doing a lot of different styles of things.

>>49689792

>The core system of 3e is pretty good but the Solar charms are a hot mess

Goddamnit, how come every new edition of Exalted ends up boiling down to "the core system is good but X is a hot mess"?

>>49690134
Well 2e was both. 3e I like the underlying system and want to see if the game can hold up for Dragonblooded or Lunars or literally any other splat with a better writing team. I think DB are coming next and are being handled by Vance and Minton. Minton was my absolute favorite 2e writer for fluff, so maybe this one won't suck. I hope not at least.

>>49690134

Uh... because it doesn't?

The core systems of 1e and 2e were hot garbage literally from the word go, and stayed broken garbage the entire lifespan of those editions.

Only the barest of band-aids (power combat in 1E, which became the cracked foundation upon which 2E was built and later swung back) has ever changed that.

>>49690181
>>49690176

You're both right, I should have said something more akin to "The core system is better in the new edition, but X is a hot mess".

>>49690134
i dont know what the other anon is talking about.I've run a few sessions of exalted and havent really run into any major problems

So anyone have anything substansive to say on the Tuatha? I for one kind of am finding their relationships confusing as fuck, without even touching on the various triple goddesses who may in fact be more, and some of whom incarnate into the world and become themselves all over again.

>>49690579
A simple example: Two of the Charms directly conflict, and then there's a sidebar that says "What happens when you use them together? You tell me."

They literally wasted space in the book to snark at the reader for not reading their minds.

>>49691650
Holy shit, fuck the author there. I know Morke was behind the whole charm segment but it had to be approved by Holden right?

>>49691650

No? The "You tell me" isn't being sarcastic.

The sidebar isn't saying "There's a secret correct answer and you have to find it."

The sidebar is saying "Whatever your table says is what goes, because the answer doesn't matter."

You'll notice that that's kind of a theme in 3e: a firm reduction on there being One Correct Answer for things that don't actually matter.

>>49691679
Here's the thing though, and I got annoyed with this from another game I love well before ex3 got to it, some GMs are not the most confident entities. Or sometimes you want to know a basic guideline to help steer how you want to diverge. Just going 'lol, up to you' is unhelpful for people who are uncomfortable with mechanics and those who are trying to get a comparative standard for a call.

>>49691162
In the actual mythology, they're an amalgamation of like four different pantheons. Trying to make heads or tails of their family tree is rife with peril, and the casual incest doesn't help.

>>49667421

If it's worth anything, I've been jere for less than half of the threads.