Android: Legend of the Five Yugimon: The Gatheringstone. ---Still

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GOD field contains these things from hecatomb like enchantments with a big effect when they go down, it might be removed to make them normal enchantments that can be removed normally, but I like having a field that says GOD.

Most of the other stuff you could sort of figure out if you've played the games.
Servers hold enchantments and things you want to score, and can be destroyed if the lane is successfully run on.
Holdings give options for more things to draw each turn (its like scry 4 each turn, sorta) but they can be destroyed, and losing them all loses the game.
G-zone holds a sideboard like deck that can sometimes be accessed midgam.
Jury votes based on their individual preferences (might vote for whoever has the most expensive creature), and having the most votes wins you effects, and having all votes wins the game. The china card is worth one vote. The china card represents which side China is in allegiance with.
The area off to the right which is greyed can be used for servers and creatures there can act as ice, but they can't move around the field or fight normally.

FORGOT THE RULES

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1r9ZUfrwa07i83v99ifftzPEkqa_wQ8zO37K169EJZp4/edit?usp=sharing

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>>49660943
Shove WIXOSS in too

This looks like it could become something incredible, but it needs a lot of work.

First off, commenting works, don't worry.

Second, there's still a lot of rules explanation that needs to be done. In particular, runs and card text need clarification. Maybe it would be helpful if the playmat was labelled and included in the document?

As for other card games, Illuminati would get my vote for inclusion. Ragnaros, Dr Boom, and Flamewreathed Faceless from HS should all be included as well.

I would love to work on this more, will post again in a day or so if thread is up. If not, I'll make comments on the doc instead. Great start though!

>>49661216
I looked through the wiki and can't see anything that wasn't already covered. Main avatar that gets stronger is done, the life cards was sort of merged into something else.

Are there any interesting things I'm missing?

>>49661562
Thanks so much : )

I know there is a lot of work to do. The areas unclear in the rules document are mostly areas where the rules still aren't finalized. Honor for example, needs to be core enough that it matters and isn't just tacked on, but also not detract from the other, more interesting parts of the game.

Playmat is going in the doc, I'm looking into Illuminati, and your cards are recorded.

Thanks again for being involved!

>>49661639
My pleasure :)

>>49661639
My pleasure, this is the exact sort of thing I love :)

I would look into Pixel Tactics. You might be able to pull some ideas off it, such as the grid/line system, or the way each card is played differently depending on position.

>>49660943
Featuring Dante from the Devil May Cry (TM) series?

>>49661562
Which Illuminati? I've found New world order and The game of conspiracy.

Force of Android Vanguard.

>>49661711
I've played some :) I'm not sure what you mean by the grid/line system though.
That's a great library of effects to look through that I hadn't thought of, thanks.

>>49661715
I haven't played Devil May Cry, how is Dante related?

>>49661639
No worries, this is the exact sort of thing I love working on :)

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>>49661749

Oops, sorry. The captcha said I got it wrong three times, but apparently it still posted.

>>49661718
The game of conspiracy

>>49661785
Sure, card added.

>>49661790
I thought maybe it was some anon(s) trying to be funny.

>>49661812
Looking into it.

>>49661897
Nope, just captcha issues.

>>49661812
I'm still learning about it, but I love the power structure with cards all over the place facing different directions, little arrows. I need more of that in my life. I think I'll be disappointed if that isn't somehow worked in.

>>49660943
Android: Legend of the Five Vanguard Yugimon: The Gatheringstone of Will?

>>49660943

Anyone here actually finished a game of it.

>>49661749
its a low tier meme

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>>49660986
How many of these games have gods to draw from?

I know Netrunner does, sorta - a few pieces of big unique ice are called 'gods' - pic related, and from the flavour text of another:
>Certain areas of cyberspace are dominated by a single digital entity. Runners call them 'gods', and only a miracle can save those foolish enough to enter their domain.

I like the idea that gods can be from all different pantheons and things

>>49660943
Duel Masters resource system is well worth looking into, essentially you can put any card into a Mana Pool where it functions as though it were a land
Iconic Cards: Bolshack Dragon, Death Liger Lion of Chaos and Mighty Shouter

>>49661598
Anime tiddies.

>>49660943
>grid based combat
>powerful avatar
>casting cards through creatures

This sounds like it'd play a bit like Duelyst, with a whole litany of inherited subsystems. Sounds fun.

>>49660943
Have you considered adding the level system from Wiess Schwartz? It's pretty interesting, each player starts at 21 life and as they lose life they get access to stronger and stronger cards as they get lower in increments of 7 (21-15 is level 1, 14-8 is level 2 and so on). It adds another layer of complexity because it makes you think before damaging the opponent and allows for some good comebacks. Also all players can discard a card, take a damage, and draw 2 so it makes the game more fast.

>>49663573
Given that some core rules are still changing its hard to give a solid answer to that, but playtests have been done and they didn't suck.

>>49664025
Not a whole lot. The God field is pretty much redundant, which is kind of too bad.

>>49664487
I see. I will ensure that they are given adequate representation.

>>49667423
That's about what it feels like right now :) Also a little like mage wars. The main avatars are currently called Duelists to refer to Duelyst+Yugioh, but I might change the name to Vanguard.

>>49668129
Do the cards get shuffled into the deck as damage thresholds are reached? That sounds like something some of the avatars could grant, by shuffling in cards from their deck into the main deck.
As for game speed, there is already a lot of draw potential and a scry like system from Lot5r, and potential for a lot of luck pushing mana ramp, so I'm not too worried about that.

>>49670104
Clearly you have to call them Duelguard Walkers.

>>49664190
The other one would be Force of Will, where you have a separate mana deck and you choose each turn whether you draw from the main or mana deck. That is, however, literally the only thing I know about the rules.

>>49670131
: O this is why I have these threads. Post evolution they're called J - Duelguard Walkers.
Or maybe Planes Duelguards? ..Planes Duelguarders..?

>>49664190
That's how land works right now, current model is that each card has a symbol at the bottom showing what colour it provides, and turning it upside down makes it into energy. Anything else interesting about Duel Masters?
Cards recorded :)

>>49670133
The last time I posted this thread someone introduced me to Force of Will, and its now pretty core to how the Duelguard Walkers functions.

>>49670104
Here's a quick guide to how Weiss works:

You have a deck of 50 cards and 8 of them are "Climax" cards. When you take damage you excavate the top cards of your deck equal to the damage taken and put it in your "Clock" (Where you keep track of damage). If you excavate a Climax you take no damage and the cards excavated are sent to the grave. Once the Clock reaches 7 all the cards except one are sent to the grave while the one taken from the clock is used to represent which color (like in MtG) you are allowed to use in the next level. You also flip the top card of your deck face down into your "Stock" when you attack and Stock is essentially your mana you use to pay the costs of cards when you play them. During the course of the game, since your losing so many of your cards its possible to deck out. When this happens you shuffle your grave to form a new deck and place 1 card in your Clock. The discard to draw is called Clocking and not only helps to fix brick hands with high level cards, but can also be used to raise your damage to get to the next level faster and ensure that the color you want will be available for that level.

@All you helpful people
I'm currently reworking how resources work a little.
Previously you attach energy (upsidedown cards) onto your hero units (strongish units that can cast cards and are worth agenda points, so you lose the game if too many die.

You can only place one energy per hero per turn, but since you can have multiple heroes out, you can ramp up quickly if you have the cards for it. Since heroes are the only people with energy on them, they're needed if you want to cast your cards with any efficiency. That's good since it counteracts the fact that losing them loses the game.
One issue I have is killing a hero with a lot of energy might be far too big a deal, and really set the player back. I've considered the player reclaiming some of the energy that was on the killed hero, but haven't worked anything out.

So since there are all these games with mana zones and things, attaching energy to the avatar in some set zone sounds good.That makes Heroes much less needed as casters though, and makes it so Heroes might not be played very much.

Besides just generally making them more efficient for their cost, any ideas on how to make players push their luck with heroes?

>>49670765
I like all the bizarre names. I think cardfight also had cards drawn when damage was taken, and some relevant mechanics. That should be worked in somehow, but cycling libraries into graveyards quickly would break milling and graveyard manipulation decks.

Unless there was another zone for cards discarded that way, and that gets cycled into the main deck when the main deck runs out. Decking out then happens when there are no cards in the library or that discard.

What would that discard be called?

Also in game deckbuilding (dominion style deck building) would be possible with reshuffles, but I'm not sure how it would work. It could draw from the G-Zone (sideboard like deck)?

As much as i love the concept, i'm having a hard time identifying how deck building itself works, and there seem to be some stuff missing from the rules, namely when and how many credits a player receives since the two other conditions for getting credits include a clause that you have to use them immidiatly.

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>>49670875
Do you replace/upgrade Holdings?

They seem like a cool thing to can generate various resources, and they look they're linked to the server directly above them (which I presume is how you can destroy them)

Folding netrunner assets/resources (can be anything from a factory to an armed response team corpside, stolen bank accounts and online realms runnerside) into various holdings/upgrades for holdings - things that provide abilities or produce resources

>>49670875
Back from yesterday, don't have time yet to start commenting on the doc but will in a couple hours.

If you want to push heroes, make them work like Legendaries/Planeswalkers in MTG or HS. Give them unique abilities that serve as/enable win conditions, abilities that don't have equivalents on regular units. Something like 'whenever you draw a card, gain a click', or 'whenever a friendly minion dies, your opponent discards a card' are good examples, abilities that can turn into win conditions if left unchecked.

Also, I'm not sure about the idea of Dominion-style recycling cards. Mill decks are an extremely fun archetype, and I would hate for A:LFY:G to not have any equivalent.

One more thing: The example vanilla cards in the doc are taken from both Duelyst and Hearthstone, which means they may require some balancing. The formula for Hearthstone stats is 2x+1, where x is the mana cost of the creature. Duelyst only follows this formula at low mana costs, and scales much faster. This means that in Duelyst, a 10/10 is 7 mana, but in Hearthstone the same card is 10 mana. If both 7 mana 10/10s and 10 mana 10/10s are in the games, the 10 mana cards will require some serious buffs in order to be playable.

>>49671882
The rules are nowhere near complete or even playable right now, but they shouldn't take too long to flesh out. Clarity and proper explanations will come with time.

>>49671882
There's lots missing from the rules. Mostly stuff that is still very uncertain, often because I'm still trying to get them to somewhere that's fun.

You start with some credits, number unknown. It will probably be marked on your avatar's card.

If you mean pregame deck building (not dominion style that I just mentioned), it's basically open, like mtg, but currently with a minimum number of heroes, since scoring the opponents heroes is a path to victory. 45 cards deck, 3 of each.

It can also resemble HS deckbuilding to a very small degree, since certain avatar figures can give access to cards not available to anyone else.

>>49672303
Destruction of holdings is very unfinished. Currently I was thinking it would be something you'd physically attack, like a creature that can only be hit from the row closest to it. That would reward very aggressive positioning, and keep them safe most of the time, and would also give a good reason to stop the enemy walking all over your side of the board, which happens in games like Duelyst.
I'm just looking for a fun method though, it could be worked into runs if it was somehow made much more difficult than a standard run.

>>49672346
That is pretty much the plan for heroes. I made up some really rough concepts, and most of them looked like
-Medium to strong passive
-An okay ability (requires that you've given the hero some energy)
-A pretty great ability (requires that the hero has survived for a little while).
In that way theyre kind of like planeswalkers if their loyalty couldn't be reduced, and wasn't reduced when they use their ultimates, but with less instawin abilities.

Important note, removal generally doesn't work on heroes. Because if something is expensive, worth vp, and has been having lands attached to it for the last 5 turns, and it gets doombladed, that's going to be not terribly fun, and discourage big heroes.

cont.

>>49674306

I'd also like something to discourage heroes turtling in the back casting stuff, having passives, and generally not participating. I see that as being the dominant style of hero right now unless they have stupid stats or something, but gross.

>mill decks are an extremely fun archetype
The idea was to have a discard only for cards cycled by specific effects, not cards discarded normally. Example, if something would normally shuffle cards back into your library, or put them on the bottom of your library, it might instead put them in this deck. It won't prevent milling.

Those vanilla cards are just copypaste. Att/Tough pairs will probably be tied to their name, but the price will be redone to however this game prices things.


Anyone still reading, another thing that could use work is the mana curve. There is a lot of potential for ramp via heroes, so I think the curve might look different than other games.
Also, do people prefer big things come out sooner or later? Duelyst does sooner, which seems cool, but it is also a very removal centric game.

>>49661812
I really like the big mess of cards with arrows, all growing from each other, but I'm not sure where it fits.Putting it on the battlefield in any way would really mess up what is already established. It could be a way of managing enchantments, but I think they're okay resting in servers.

My current idea is to have the center card be the avatar (another card for the avatar, with their rules related to the illuminati structure) and have all other cards placed around it be political factions and other possible avatars. Kind of like trying to win other planeswalkers onto your side. This sounds a lot like enchantments though.

It’s very important though, if this mechanic is to exist, there has to be player interaction. If only one player is using the system, then it makes the game closer to solitare, since there won’t be any interferance. The system would then need to be core and necessary, but without slowing the game down. This would probably be done by making it very closely tied to existing systems, but I can’t think of any way that would work yet.

>>49674306
So basically all heroes have hexproof. Interesting. I like the idea, but another possibility could be each hero having a cheap counter ability, something like Lose 1 Life: Counter target spell targeting this creature. Might add another way to balance heroes, with weaker heroes getting cheaper counters and strong heroes getting more expensive counters.

>>49674406
Oh, I see. There should be a separate name for this type of discard. Not sure what it should be.

Big things come out sooner would be nice. Makes for a faster pace, something which could become important due to the complexity of this game.

>>49675259
It would probably be best to just put this on the back burner for now then, and save it for when the other rules systems are better established.

>>49675512
Okay, did some tinkering and found a potential price-stats curve

The formula is round(1.45^0.9x + x
+ 1)
That means approximately hearthstone stats until 6 mana, where it begins to scale a little faster. At 10 mana, 20/20s appear. After that the numbers are ridiculously high, so if there's cards over ten mana the curve will have to be redesigned.

>>49675512
I don't know about hexproof, but cheap removal will specify "creature" making heroes untargettable.

>There should be a separate name for this type of discard. Not sure what it should be.
Weiss calls their discard pile the waiting room, which is great, so lets call the cycling discard that for now.

>Big things come out sooner would be nice.
That's a good point. I don't worry too much about the game being slow, for a few reasons, but its much better to err on the side of too fast than too slow.

>It would probably be best to just put this on the back burner for now
Sounds good, though that means it will probably never be incorporated, at least as anything core. The thought of politics around the battlefield being simulated is pretty exciting to me, but gameplay comes first.

>The formula is round(1.45^0.9x + x
+ 1)
I think that might be too fast, particularly on the scale of 20/20s, which is kind of ludicrous.
The curve should probably be logarithmic, rather than exponential, reasoning being:
There is a lot of potential for mana ramp, and a credits resource for saving mana to spend all at once. In comparing systems, mtg mana available curves logarithmically, since you gradually run out of lands to play and need to rely on draws to get more. HS is completely linear, and possibly has a result, has smaller high end creatures (could be wrong, didn't play extensively). This game is further on the HS side, where instead of mana per turn slowing down, it more or less speeds up, and credits can allow occasional early big drops.
This will take some testing to get right, which can't really start till my earlier questions about the resource system are resolved (>>49670875 )

>>49676211
Agreed on all points. I never considered a logarithmic scale, that should've come to mind quickly.

Speaking of that resource system, I'm a little confused as to how it works. Does energy work like lands in magic, tapped for mana and untapped at the start of each turn? Is it just a flat cost reduction to all cards?

>>49676393
Good point, I never explained it in the rules. It works like lands, except when one is attached to a hero, only that hero can use it.

I've looked at threshold systems, where having x resource lets you cast all cards with cost x or lower for free, and while its in a few places, it seems boring to me, since it removes some decision making. Cards from those games might use thresholds though.

It's very hard to come up with meaningful data points for constructing a curve right now, since hero survivability and credit availability are so unknown.

Also, whenever this this thread goes down, feel free to message me in the rules document. I probably won't reopen the thread until I have something to show or more questions to ask.