Imperium Asunder

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Here's our poorly balanced !Horus i guess.

>>49659495
>Warmaster has poor dental hygiene

I guess he's not Space Bond after all.

The pistol is a cool idea.

Also, why's he Relentless?

>>49659845
120" is abit much. I do like the idea of 30" hyper accurate laser pistol though

>>49659845
>why's he Relentless?
So he can fire that monstrous one-shot rod and still assault if he wants to. I think Sniper might preclude movement too maybe? Also IIRC if you're Relentless your squad is too, though maybe that's S&P, so it's a buff to whatever shooty infiltration unit you put him in.

>>49660033
36" range would be good without being absurd

>>49660166
But if he's relentless, then it will always fire 6 shots?

>>49660229
Yeah.

>>49660367
So why not make it an assault 6 weapon?

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>>49661208

>>49661208
(Relentless doesn't transfer.)


So what are some other cool primarch weapons?
I think Gengrat needs a cool pimp stick, in particular, but I think we also need cool toys for Enoch, Faustus, etc.

Might also be worth it to discuss how we want to do Primarch scale force weapons-- I think they should be Instant Death by default and become truly lethal with the addition of WC to represent the sheer power at play here.

>>49661284
>(Relentless doesn't transfer.)
It must be S&P then because I know putting a megamek in a big gunz squad is a metacheese strategy for orks.

>force weapons-- I think they should be Instant Death by default
Well yeah that's what Force does if you successfully cast it. In terms of other primarchs it does nothing but primarchs don't *only* fight each other.

>>49661284
I disagree. They are force weapons. You dont get more dead.

>>49661452
>>49661359
I suppose that's fair, though I was thinking about some of the more arcane rules that pop up with strongly warp aligned weaponry like soul-razor, which does additonal wounds, or whatever that rule is that forces sucessful invulns to be rerolled, or the Eldar wraithbone blades whose psychokinetic makeup makes them fleshbane. I suppose I've got Alpharius in the back of my mind, sort of a 'well, if he's got ID and he's not even a psyker, just imagine what sort of crazy shit a Primarch's force weapon could do'.
Though if it's a quality of the weapon itself as opposed to a force contingent benefit, that's fair too. Mostly, I think Oramar, Anshul, Xun, and to a lesser extent Gengrat should have weapons that rend reality with witchcraft.

>>49661524
The point is though, being dead isn't a scale.

Something that kills you kills you.
It doesnt matter if it electrifies you, or blows off your head, or pierces your heart, or even totally atomises you.

Its not a sliding scale. So a weapon that has instant death, cant really go higher. Its not like you can super-kill someone. You dig?

I am back now, and am putting together all the information provided in the last thread to bump out some drafts for balanced, and scaled (to each other) Primarch Rules. Hopefully Ill get them all done tonight or tomorrow night.

If there is anything not posted in last thread you think might be relevant please link to this post.

>>49661678
I don't think WS for Sarco should be 8. It implies that he is somehow hard to hit when being in a knight chasis. he should be 6.

Also why is Raydon & Engerand the same score as Marcus, Oramar, and Rubinek? (7)

>>49661736
Well Raydon can hardly be WS8 and BS8, thats significant higher AND he already has higher Initiative, which I think is more instrumental to both his character and how he would be played.

Also keep in mind that the scales are iffy for these. An Ogryn is T5 and a Space Marine is T4 even though arguably a Space Marine is hardier, and even if not, an Ogryn isn't stronger by the same magnatude a Marine is stronger than a guardsmen.

The rules aren't perfect.

>>49661678
see
>>49659495

I dont get it.

Also, since when was the Warmaster a psyker?

>>49662053
He's always been doing some sort of illusion spell or something. Invisibility is a thing he definitely does.

>>49662100
I went back and am compiling the OU Primarch Stats, and am going to use them in conjunction with the suggestions provided and the rules already made up.

Immediately im seeing a ramp up for the AU Primarchs, notably in WS and BS, with BS6 being the norm for AU but BS5 being the norm for OU.

>>49662376
I think a little bit of power inflation is inevitably going to crop up, especially in first versions. Hopefully we can try to compensate.

>>49662404
Yeah its not a huge issue, just something people might not have been aware of. Im going to scale everything back to the OU standard, and if we need to make exceptions for character (such as Rubinek and Klaus) we can move forward from there.

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>>49662531
V2.

Note: This is based off a slightly modified version of OU primarchs stats as listed. It does not take into account ALL their special rules, but it does take into account some.

For instance,

Grahanak would likely gain +1S +1I on charge,
Aodhan while having somewhat less attacks than others does autowound with them.
Some have worse saves, Raydon/Xun/Balthasar

but Raydon has dodge mechanics, Balthasar is a class cannon, and Xun very likely can improve durability though other means.

While I have tried to put some thought into the stats, if you think something is odd the way it is, please ask and I might be able to explain my reasoning. If you disagree also point that out and we can work to get something better.

>>49662888
seems good 2 me.

Have you collected special rules anons made up?

>>49662985
They are collected but not sorted, I have a list of 3 summarised rules per character that I made up at work on my phone. Which I am using to fill gaps of what wasn't provided.

If someone collected and sorted it all, it would be great for them to post it. Otherwise Ill just keep plodding along with it all.

Also, Alexios and sarco are missing by design, they will be statted with vehicles.

>>49663032
Doing special rules now, but taking a break to go out for dinner. What i've got so far.

Also, Raydon's post has a serious amount of special rules. Much more than others. Can we trim them down abit?

ENGERAND - Hammer of Wrath, Furious Charge, Terminator Armour (Bulky, Deep Strike, No Sweeping Advances)
> Sire of the Storm Hammers
LA: Gain Furious Charge, and units w/i 24" gain +1I and +1T during the turn they charge.
> Strumgan
Weapon: x2 Str, AP2, Strikedown, Two-Handed, Armourbane.
> Mantle of the Storm King
Enemies who charge Engerand or his unit count as having disordered charges. Provides 2+ Armour Save and 4+ Invulnerable, as well as immunity to poison and fleshbane.
> Mjuln
Weapon: Range: 24" Str: 4 AP: 4 Assault 4

BALTHASAR - Rage, Rampage, Counter Attack, Furious Charge, Battle Born
> Sire of the Bloodhounds
LA: Gain Rage and Counter-Attack rules
> Cloak of Blades
All models in base contact must take a StrX AP- Hit at the start of each assault phase. Confers 3+ Armour save and 4+ Invulnerable Save.
> Battle Born
If Balthasar destroys a unit in close combat (inc running it down), he gains FNP 5+, which increases to 4+ if he destroys 2 or more units.

>>49663452
KLAUS - Blademaster, Dolorious Blade, Paragon of Steel, Mantle of Kings
> Sire of the Knights Exemplar
LA: All Knights Exemplar gain +1 Leadership (to maximum of 10) whilst Klaus is in play, in addition they may re-roll failed charge distances. Terminators can also be taken as troops if Klaus is the Warlord of the Knight Exemplar Primary Detachment.
> Blade Master
At the start of each combat phase choose 1: (Enemies only hit on 6's before modifications and regardless of respective WS / Gain +2 Attacks / Gain Smash and AP1)
> Dolorious Blade
Str: User AP: 2, Special: Increase invulnerable save to 3+ in close combat, Armourbane, Blind
> Mantle of Kings
2+ Armour save, 4+ Invulnerable save
> Paragon of Steel
Friendly models engaged in combats within 24" gain +1 to combat resolution and are stubborn

RAYDON - Gunfighter, Evasion, Repressed Psyker, Special Ammunitions, Havoc, Shadow Mantle
> Sire of Crimson Warhawks
LA: All fliers gain strafing run, deepstrike, and +1 Jink Save.
> Gun Fighter
Can use Havoc in close combat, gaining Concussive, Lethal Precision, and abilities conferred by special ammunitions.
> Havoc
RNG: 24" STR: 6 AP3
> Special Ammunitions
Psybolt (Ignore Invulnerable Saves), Tempest (Tesla, Haywire), Turbo-Penetrator (Sunder and AP1), Dragonfire (Fleshbane), Inferno (Ignores Cover)
> Evasive
All shooting at Raydon whilst he is not in a unit counts as being snap shot.
> Repressed Psyker
Counts as ML3 Psyker who does not generate warp tokens or psychic powers. He is permanantly under the effects of precognition and gains the Trusted Insticts Warlord Trait
> Trusted Instincts
Re-roll reserves and mysterious terrain rolls to indentify terrain by your units. In addition when tactical objectives are used you can immediately discard an active tactical objective and generate a new one.
> Shadow Mantle
3+ Armour Save, 5+ Invulnerable Save, Move through Cover, Hit and Run, Stealth and Shrouded Special Rules.

which forgeworld book is Horus in?

>>49663643

First. You want the page?

>>49663658
Si senor.

>>49663466
AODHAN - Giants Bane, Widow Maker, FNP 6+, Heart Taker, Pearlescent Plate, Furious Charge
> Sire of the Negators
LA: within 12" gain Fearless, All LA gain FNP (5+). Increasing to FNP (4+) on the turn Aodhan destroys a vehicle or monsterous creature.
> Giant's Bane
When charging a monsterous creature or vehicle Aodhan gains +6" charge range. When fighting in close combat against a monsterous creature, or vehicle his FNP increases to 4+
> Widow Maker
STR: X AP: 1 Special: Two Handed, Widow Maker automatically wounds in close combat and unsaved wounds caused by the weapon become D3 wounds.
> Heart-Taker
RNG: 12" STR7 AP3 Assault 2.

>>49663643
Book 1.

Grahanak is up next.
Also, having typed it out 1000 times im still unable to spell it properly, this is a stupid name. I hate it with every fibre of my being.

>>49663666
GRAHANAK - Terror incarnate, Black Fang, From the Shadows, Raiment of Shadow, Hit and Run, Anguish
> Sire of the Void Lords
LA: Whilst Grahanak is on the field enemies must take all Fear Tests on 3d6 taking the worst result. All friendly Void Lords automatically succeed Sweeping Advance checks whilst Grahanak is on the board.

> Terror Incarnate
Enemies within 12" suffer -3 Ld and must take pass a leadership test in order to charge Grahanak or his unit. If they fail they cannot take any other action that turn.

> Black Fang
RNG: 12" STR8 AP2 Assault 1. Enemies that would suffer a wound are instead moved 3d6" towards Grahanak, stopping 1" short of terrain they would encounter. If targetting a unit, the unit is allowed a free consolidation move to maintain unit cohency. If this would move the model into 1" of Grahanak they are considered to be engaged in combat however neither gains the benefits of the charge.

> From the Shadows
On the turn Grahanak deepstrikes all shooting at him is considered snap shots, in addition if not in combat and not part of a unit, Grahanak can be moved into reserves at the end of the controlling players movement phase instead of moving normally. He may then re-enter from reserves using the deepstrike rules.

> Raiment of Shadow
Terminator Armour conferring Deep Strike, Stealth, and Shrouded, as well as 4+ Invulnerable Save.

> Anguish
Str: User AP:2 Shred, Paired Weapons.

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>>49663666
>>49663679
call him grass snek it'll make ya chuckle

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>>49663661

1 of 2

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>>49663701

2 of 2

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>>49663679
>1000 times im still unable to spell it properly, this is a stupid name. I hate it with every fibre of my being.
I know, I still don't know how to pronounce it.

>>49663693
Is that legit how its intended to be pronounced? It doesnt matter now I guess, ill never not do it.

>>49663679
>Raiment of Shadow
Thoughts on removing shrouded and adding horus' teleportation matrix?

>>49663701
>>49663714
I think the Warmaster's strategic rules are surprisingly in line with God of Battle, a little bit stronger but he's not as good of a deathstar to compensate. If anything we might want to buff >>49659495 to be a bit stronger in terms of strategic advantages.

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>>49663693

Did someone say snek?

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Alright guys, one final time.

What does the Warmaster look like? I remember that a couple of threads back it was decided that his skin would be grey and that his eyes could flare up in the dark, allowing him to see. But what's his face like? Does he have hair? Any distinct features? Anything like pic related?

>>49663984

His whole Schick is that no-one has any clue what the hell he looks like.

The Drawfag can do him in a helmet like Alpharius. He's done it before.

Better he be the faceless figure. Otherwise why has he got no name?

>>49663996
We could just censor the eyes. Just because the people in universe don't know what he looks like, doesn't mean we shouldn't decide on it. He clearly doesn't wear the helmet at all times and his brothers know who he is, so his facial features should be decided on.

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>>49664013
I could get behind a black bar eye thing. If only because I think it's goofy in a cool way.

>>49664032
Well, since his eyes are actually part of what makes him special, we should probably have him done with the eyes, and then we censor them ourselves.

>>49664157
or just censor everything but his eyes!
Or have false portraits, having the real one be lost amongst them
Or have no real portrait, and only fakes.
Fakes that are then censored.
Genius.

>>49664475
We could and probably should do all that, but let's start with what he's actually like, so we have something to censor.

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>>49664524
Pic related

>>49664534
Objectively hilarious.

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>>49663984

>>49663728
I actually think this might be a cool idea.

>>49663714
Man, Disabling Strike is SUCH bullshit.

I feel like they messed up a little by making Horus the best duellist mechanically.

>>49665398

He literally fucked up the Emperor so hard he had to be wired into a machine for 10,000 years just to keep him alive, and murdered the second or third best Primarch Fighter. He needs some way of justifying that skill.

>>49665398
Horus is meant to be the best though. He'd have to be a great duelist, he struck down the Emperor.

>>49661284
I think the statted weapons for Enoch work for him. The only thing I'd change would be giving his shoulder mounted heavy bolters some kind of airbursting alternate fire with a blast profile.

IMO Faustus should have an asclepius power staff and a suite of toxin grenades.

Saul is the guy we need to really be thinking on. We ain't got nothing on him yet.

>>49665409
>>49665419
He was suped up on the power of four Chaos Gods at the time.

Fluffwise Horus was never the best duellist. IMO they should have released continually better upgrades for him to reflect his growing favour in the eyes of Chaos rather than making the best fighter from the go.

>>49663720
I've been pronouncing it "Grayanack" in my head.

>>49665529
I've been thinking "Grah! HanAK"

>>49665570
I've been pronouncing it Grah-hah-nagk.

>>49662888
Basing Saul on Alpharius, Xun on Corax, and Balthasar on Horus seems a bit off to me.
I might put Saul more along the lines of Dorn simply because Dorn is more durable.
Corax is a lot sneakier than Xun and his stats and equipment are based on the assumption of high mobility.
And class.

>>49665861
Yo, Xun.

Got anything for >>49663984?
After this one's done, I can start pestering people in these threads for other info.

Anyone have an up-to-date galaxy map?

>>49666179
Alexios might have it? He'll be around eventually.

We know Faustus hated Redacted to a fault, but was it mutual? Did they ever come to blows before hand?

Also, does the Big E have a relationship matrix for the primarchs?

>>49666542
They might've come to blows during the Pacification of Luna.

As for the relationship matrix, I don't think we have one. Interesting subject though.

>>49665972
I've been picturing the medieval depiction of Satan as a man with Sable skin and hair and glowing orange eyes.
I'll think about it, though.

>>49666542
I think a relationship Web of the Emperor and his sons would be useful, but I think we should avoid getting into the Emperor's head too much l, since that will result in a lot of pointless argument. The guy is supposed to be somewhat unknowable.
I think it should look like he's warm with some sons and more distant to others, but whether he has genuine affection or the primarchs are tools should be up to the reader, a few specific cases aside, like how the Emperor was so fond of Horus that he hesitated on the Vengeful Spirit.

>>49666573
FIst guy is here and very broad, anything i can input on?
>>49666542
Id love to see an Emps matrix

>>49666757
You're actually quite right. Let's preserve the mystery of the Emperor.

>>49666762
Nothing specifically right now. We'd always like to hear your thoughts on thing written up for Marcus. Anything to say about his stats or the description of him I wrote up? Both should be in the previous thread.

>>49666757
Cool, I'll write that down for now. It's something.

>>49667055
So keeping it vague, who is the Emperor close with? Who gets the fancy titles like Pretorian of Terra?

Really I suppose the better question might be how the primarch sees their relationship to the Emperor, like how I'd you'd asked Lorgar, he'd tell you that the Emperor hated him and saw him as a disappointment, while in actuality, the Emperor probably just wanted him to learn to stand on his own.

I think Enoch probably falls closest to that, with Enoch having major daddy issues and the Emperor basically saying "yo, you're basically a god. I made you to rule the fucking galaxy. Get your shit together. Validate your own damn existence."
What's important for us is that Enoch finds the Emperor too cold and distant and so looks to Redacted.

Gengrat, I think, feels that the Emperor is proud of him the same way that Gengrat is of his sons, but can't be as close because the Mechanicum would get pissy. Gengrat sees the aemperor as a being full of machine spirit and thus worthy of reverence, but resents the imposition of Martian dogma. For Gengrat, the Emperor has to go for the crimes of Mars, but he's enough of a psycho and Tzneetchy enough that it's nothing personal, it's in the nature of chaos. -- I'm thinking Gengrat goes in for the idea that Tzneetch demands scheming and progress. He believes that his sucess justifies his actions. He believes that the changer of ways ultimately is the source of the spirit and cannot be overcome because Tzneetch is eternally overcoming himself. Gengrat also likes to think that he'd be proudest of a son who could replace him. He sees the ascendancy of the Emperor as part of Tzneetch's plan, with the Emperor being pretty much the ultimate rebel and thus, ultimately a true disciple of Tzneetch.
As a result, the East is just misguided and needs to recognize that even the Emperor walks in the path of the Changer of Ways.

Hopefully that's so crazy that it actually forms a coherent and reasonable view of things.

>>49667893
I'm betting the Emperor had a totally skewed view of Balthasar, and gave him a title like Lord Canis or something to reflect his purpose of hunting down traitors and Primarchs. Dude seemed to be super loyal and I like the idea that the Emperor, being a huge autist, never realized that Balthasar was simply addicted to violence.

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>>49667893
I always imagined that the (post-interment) Scions filled a similar niche as the Imperial Fists in the OU, in that they were a reserve force that focused on defending the Imperium's newly conquered worlds and sent support forces in case a legion got bogged down somewhere. This means that whatever reason Sarco went to Malphas was concocted by the Warmaster to give him a reason to take his entire legion to the edge of the galaxy. As for Sarco's feelings about the Emperor, he saw him as the ultimate role model and the greatest of all mortal men. His Truth was undeniable, and it was a great honor to be entrusted with the defense of Terra. Before his interment, I think he never truly understood the responsibility he had as one of the Emperor's sons and the humbling experience of being brought low by the Eldar helped him "see the light", so to speak.

>>49668011
Similarly I think Klaus, Aodhan and Alexios were among his favourites. Alexios is zealously loyal and believes utterly in the Imperial Creed, he's his prime empire builder. He aleady has a cool title.

Aodhan seemed to be really eager to go out and destroy things in the Emperor's name before he started having misgivings, and I feel like he's the thing tell Emperor pointed at the most horrifying theats to mankind, things he didn't want others to even know about.

Klaus is like the opposite. If Aodhan's title is something like Lord Ghostfacekilla, Klaus is Lord Protector. I can imagine him being the guy who the Emperor keeps at his side, or sends to protect Malcador, or whatever

>>49667893
>>49668011
>>49668051
>>49668119
What do you guys think of Marcus's relationship with dad? I have trouble believing they would get along well since Marcus threw his lot in with mars

>>49667055
I don't know jack about stats so whatever seems fine to me, i did read the special wargear he got and thought it was pretty sweet, i don't imagine him with long hair but whatever that me and this is colab.

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>>49668359
The hair is meant like this

>>49668391
Oh ok yeah that's awesome, also i just read the writefagtory you edited for me, great job man its really good.

>>49668359
Hmm, and given the indications that the Emperor was preparing for a potential war with Mars, it may well be that the Emperor saw Marcus as a potential rebel and as a result prepared a backup tech guy, ie Gengrat wasn't completely crazy.

Either way, Marcus could well have been a bit distant, venerating the Emperor as the divine Omnissiah, which would have placed the Emperor in a bind, since he couldn't slap Marcus the way he did Lorgar. The precise processes would be unclear, but what we would see is the Emperor being a bit distant from Marcus and the two disagreeing on the role of Mars and the Machine Cult.

>>49662888
Possibly unpopular opinion:

All the highest tier fighter Primarchs - Klaus, Aodhan, Kashaln, Anders - should have WS8, none of them should have WS9. I don't think WS9 belongs on Primarchs. Yeah, I know Angron is WS9, but I believe that was a mistake. WS9-10 should be reserved, IMO, for the most insanely ridiculous things, like Daemon Primarchs and the like. Phoenix Lords are WS8 and have several thousand years of skill and experience on the Primarchs.

Aside from that, though, this list looks fucking legit.

And nice trips. One more and you'd be full Chaos.

>>49667893
>I think Enoch probably falls closest to that

Pretty sure Enoch was designed with that exact role in mind.

I feel like he's a mixture of Lorgar and Perturabo. Desperate for validation and constantly feeling underappreciated, spitefully considering his brothers lesser than him and undeserving of their titles, doing things the hardest way possible to show how awesome he is and getting fucking asshurt when people call him retarded for it.

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>mfw 2 anons answered the prompt for Alexios and Balthasar perfectly

>>49668119
>Lord Ghostfacekilla

Kek.

I imagine if he has an Emperor-given title it'd be something that reflects his ability send the toughest shit to the gates of hades pretty much without fail. The Angel of Perdition, the Slayer of Kings, Death's Ferryman, something like that.

>>49665861
I went through and had a look at what people had posted and looked at HH rules for each primarch. It seems like stats anon has merely found the stat line that most closely resembles what we posted for our characters.

Dorn for example has WS8 ans BS5 which dont fit well. Likewise Corax had the most attacks and high initiative which is the two things that Xun has been noted for.

Tldr; i was confused at first as well. remove what you know about the ou primarchs and their gear and it makes sense.

>>49668051
I think anders was meant to be the main guy who stayed back to defend wasnt he?

>>49668119
>imperial creed
The The emperor literally had lorgars world bombed for that. I dont think he would have liked Alexios doing it either.

Klaus's title was knight-protector and shield of Terra. So yeah spot on.

>>49668453
Since when was the emperor gearing up for war against mars?

>>49668538
WS isnt just skill with your weapon though. Its how easily you can land or evade a hit and how easily you can make that blow count.

Angron has 9 because he is a hulking beast that throws himself into combat. He moves faster than the blink of an eye and keeps attacking. You might be more skilled than him but you cant just parry a force like that (if your eldar).

>>49670244
>The The emperor literally had lorgars world bombed for that. I dont think he would have liked Alexios doing it either.
He meant imperial truth, Alexios was huge on it before the Emperor died and destroyed everything he believed, turning him into a hyperreligious zealot because Alexios never half-asses anything.

>>49662888
I like this. Good job.

>>49663679
This too. The fear bubble combined with redeploying deepstrike is a nifty combo. Throw in the 1 turn snap shot to provide extra durability the turn he deepstrikes alone and his grapple hook to bring enemies into combat with him means you dont have to allow him to charge to.keep him being scary.

>>49670305
But arent a few characters big on it? Xun, Sarco, Anders, Raydon.

They all are so into it even after his death they dont change their mind (xun sort of does). And thats when he arguably has is a god now.

>>49670410
That's because, much like with the Hektor Heresy, anons in general don't like religion and when you let them rewrite 40k they try to rewrite it without religion.

>>49670244
Anders spent most of his time on the eastern fringe to be away from Emps IIRC.

>>49670455
Sarco
>keeps true to his fathers original mission
Raydon
>religion? No i want more bullets
Xun
>imperial creed? No no i need to make it my own

You
>anons just hate religion so their characters arent valid examples of people who valued the imperial truth

>>49671048
I'm saying their characters are the way they are for a reason.

>>49671096
I have nothing against religion, I just wanted to see how an atheist legion would fit into the world.

>>49670455
Can confirm.

>>49670410
Makes sense.

Raydon never thought the Emperor was infallible, if I'm reading correctly, and Anders thought he was a shithead.

The Eastern Imperium isn't unified like the Imperium of the OU. There's no overall Ecclesiarchy enforcing religious doctrine. It wouldn't make sense for everyone to drop the Imperial Truth for the Imperial Creed the way they do in the OU.

>>49671631
>It wouldn't make sense for everyone to drop the Imperial Truth for the Imperial Creed the way they do in the OU.
can we not go down this road please

>>49671860
Hmmm?

Way I see it we've been down this road already and it's all settled pretty much. Imperium Minorum has the ecclesiarchal teachings of Alexios and is most similar religiously to the OU. The Jade Empire has Xun's pseudo-Confucian cult of diligence and Emprah ascendant. The Storm Kingdoms are a clusterfuck of different holdings with varying beliefs. The Scions believe in steel. The Warhawks believe in vengeance. The Forgespace has the Mechanicus Cult.

>>49671942
That's pretty different from "everyone still believes in the imperial truth and there is never an ecclesiarchy at all"

>>49671942
Yeah. That's the go. I think Alexios is just saying its all sorted.

>>49672070
Personally I wish the setting had a bit more of a lean toward the Ecclesiarchy because to me 40k especially is all about religious nutjobs in space, and to compromise that proportionally reduces how interesting the setting is.

That said the current balance is within my zone of tolerance on the matter and I have no real complaints about it.

>>49666573
I think Faustus actually beat the Warmaster there and he had to get rescued by the Emperor. A very good cause of enmity between the two of them. Could have seriously scarred his face which added to REDACTED's secretive nature and why he's hard to be recognized.

>>49666573
>>49672532
The Warmaster's first major battlefield victory after Malcador raises him from a babby is the pacification of Luna. He infiltrates the planet and conquers it from within, but it's costly.

REDACTED and Faustus' relationship is that of bitter rivalry. The Warmaster's flagship, The All Seeing Eye, is said to hang in the sky above terra 'like a jealous moon.' After the heresy, Faustus' rebel moon hangs as a constant reminder of the Warmaster's faulures.

Two people couldn't possibly hate each other any more.

>>49670048
Oooh! Ok.

>>49670244
>War on Mars
In the HH forgeworld books, the narrators seem to think it was a possibility and make note of things like Mechanicum dissatisfaction with the Imperial regime. The Emperor also seems to circumvent them at times, like with the Leviathan Dread, which is implied to be designed to fight mechanicum battle automata.

>>49670455
Que? Xun and the Jade Empire end up very religious. It's just that they're based on Ancient China and it looks very different from Christianity.

>>49671942
Yep.


I'm going to write a bit on Jade Empire religion in a bit, but essentially it's about finding meaning and fulfilment, specifically thanks to chaos, though service to the Empire.

A lot of things are specifically not discussed in prole accessible works, but are dealt with in a corpus of state sponsored rituals, resulting in a situation where people have beliefs and if you asked them, they'd say, oh, Xun said it. For example, reincarnation is a common belief. Xun doesn't actually say that that's what happens, but there's a lot of myths and stories that use that as a plot device and there's rituals out there that people do, but in Xun's compendius tomes, he simply outlines it as something that might happen. Similarly, fighting st the Emperor's side is also a common belief, based on some myths and the veneration of guys like Anwynn MacLior and the Legions of the Damned. People assume Xun says that it will happen to them.

>>49672663
So the most accessible of Xun's works is his [Catchy Name]. It's a bunch of stories and musings about life and the universe and... everything.
They range from stories of sages and primarchs and historical events to debates between Grasshopper and Raven. Some are clearer than others and there are countless commentaries on it.
The emphasis is on self-knowledge and actualization as well as issues of duty when in a system. Rituals tend to be things like burning insence to ancestors and heroes, with the idea being to reinforce an idea of being embedded in the Empire and the value of diligence in one's duties.
There's also significant works by legionaries and administrators, which are usually allegories, commentaries, or hortatory.
Xun also has a lot of other works less commonly read by the proles. The most widely known is Idylls of the Kings, which is an incredibly dense play about the Crusade and Heresy. It's really written for himself as a means of understanding what happened, but Astartes are expected to study it as well. The proles don't get it, particularly since the smart proles are enrolled in the civil service. (The mortal bureaucrats have families too and really, the message is the same, it's just that they serve by administrating, a task requiring more intellect and more discipline.)
Idylls is like Shakespeare if Shakespeare had been written by the inhuman intellect of a Primarch trying to understand himself and his brothers.
The whole play is too long to perform, it's like the Ring Cycle, but scenes are performed at civil events.
Performances and liturgical dramas are central to the state cult. Most are mythic, but a large number are historical dramas, like the annual celebrations of the Salvation of Tepectitlan.

>>49672000
Oh. I wasn't really saying everyone should still be in on the Truth, just that it'd be weird for a bunch if disparate kingdoms separated by lightyears to latch onto the same overall belief structure.

>>49672989
PROMPT: except Xun (for obvious reasons)

Tell us about the legions religion and/or belief system. If dedicated to chaos does their worship take on traditional means or something different

>>49673172
Oathsworn have created a genecult, or rather resurrected the almost kabalistic beliefs of ancient Luna. It maintains their knowledge and hides their attempts at innovation from the pryinf eyea at othera. It's been mentioned before that the post heresy oathsworn have circles of knowledge like masonic lodges or the Dark Angels. Practically worships Faustus as the Ascended or Perfect Man crafted by perfect knowledge. Have an odd and at times very tenuous relationship with the Biologos branch of the Ad Mech. Sees the Warmaster as the devil to be slain at the End Times. Very big sense of reverence and recurring motif of the moon post heresy when the twin snakes around the staff become the symbol solely of Apothecaries in all legions.

>>49674018
I dig this a lot

>>49674018
Love it.
Also could mean they dont share around there toys much. And if they do its only entry level stuff. Keeping the real prize ponies for when they are alone or with extremely trusted allies.

Awesome. Mason lodges is a cool analogy

>>49674818
Oathsworn since the heresy have a reputation for kush shit. When every dropped the ball and gasped at the literal hell the Warmaster unleashed, Faustus just let loose the flood gates on his own secret stash. Terra is like 5% safe sone even with the warmasted, because the rest of itcs more fucked than below ground Mars. Think Eclipse Phase Earth after the fall.

Now when a bunch of Oathsworn get together, it's everybody's oh shit button beong pressed loyal or heretic. People seen the common biophages they drop that reduce a world to sludge in hours, and itcs fucking scary to have all those mad docs working together. At least one crusade was just them fucking everything up. Makes no one trust themn but still know they need them.

>>49674018
Nice. I'm liking the Hermetic Oathsworn. If Faustus swung that way, it would also explain why he was so mysterious.

>>49673139
>Behemoth Guard
I've written a bit on the legion's beliefs, the practice of the people I think will depend on how their domain is organized so I'll get back to you guys on this.

>Void Lords
I've been fond of the idea that they've got a mariners superstition about the horrors of the Void and are very into their cult of enlightenment through terror.

>>49675164
I dont know if Faustus was msyterious so much as he was a lab rat and I dont mean like the test subject. He was the Emperor's scientific curiosity, that which made the webwau project and the primar chs. But more than that even he loved the common human. If there was anything greater than his love of science and hatred for REDACTED, it was how much he cared for the human race. He cured so many diseases, improved so many lives, destroyed so manu xenos because he loved people. He was literally the worst at showing it though beyond his work. Ten thousand years later people forget that probably, but I'm partial to him being the Sanguinius of the Imperial Saints.

>>49674965
I dont think anyone needs them. Its more that some factions want them to get an edge. Maybe a chapter suffers catastrophic defeat and wants to get back to nominal size decades earlier than predicted... so they hire a pair of oathsworn to work their magic. Will it work? Probably, will it cost them dearly, definitely, will it have some sort of after effect nobody wants. Almost certainly.

>>49675164
>superstition of the terror of the void
Isnt that them? Do they revere the boogyman and try and be him?

>>49675198
>imperial saint
Yeah i see him as saint of life, birth, and mercy

>>49671942
>The Scions believe in steel.
That pretty much sums them up perfectly, holy shit. The way they see it, the Emperor's ideals are worth following not because they came from the mouth of the divine, but because they embody the goals that all humans (and posthumans) should strive for.

>>49675198
I can definitely get behind that. The only person that would have a problem with that would be Anders, who would likely portray Faustus as a human supremacist who was a danger to everyone. Probably present him as a cold, heartless ass who got what was coming to him by being intolerant.
I also imagine that Alexios gets a ton of millage off of the fact that Anders was first in on Luna and failed to negotiate that one.
Depending on the mood of the moment, I imagine it can get to a "ANDERS MARTYRED FAUSTUS!"
Heck, Faustus probably has a decently sized cult of healing. Might be fair to ask what the 'portfolio' of the various major imperial saints are, too.

On a related line of thought:
>Johannes Hoenheim, the Chiurgeon
One of Faustus' brightest, Hoenheim was there during the siege of Luna, one of the few Oathsworn to escape. Entrusted with preserving as much of the Oathsworn's work as possible, Hoenheim escaped with Knights Exemplar even as Luna plummeted towards Terra.
Hoenheim is a complicated man. On the one hand, he seeks to preserve the legacy of his gene-father, wandering from court to court in the East instructing and researching as the opportunity presents itself. At times he even creates stunning works of genomancy and medicine.
Despite this, Hoenheim is haunted by his memories of Luna, and, in particular, he cannot forgive the Judgement Bringers or the Paladins of Kor.
When his humors swing towards the choleric, Hoenheim will vanish, only later to appear reaving the Protectorate or attacking the Judgement Bringers.
It is suspected, but never proven, that these raids on the Protectorate are sponsored by various other states.
For Hoenheim's part, he cares little as long as he is able to extract some quantum of solace from his revenge.

>>49673172
The Hawks revere there ancestors.
Because of how they are trained (mentor-mentee(?)) they pass on the names, deeds, and legends of their forebares.

So they cite the adventures and victories of those of their linage, they likely know the deeds of their mentors squads mates, and all hawks speak of the most famous legends of their legion.

It is a fore most goal of each Hawk that they do something so (in)famous that theirs is a name that carries on through the centurys among not only their own linage - but all the legion.

Its also why their spectre operatives are so highly regarded. To become a spectre, you need to cast away your name, and your line. Your deeds are no longer recounted, your deeds will forever be shrouded by mystery. To willingly subject yourself to a life-time of this treatment is both unthinkable and worthy of great praise by most Hawks.

>>49675498
which are? You haven't actually told us what they believe in. Or how they venerate it.

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Can we talk about something that was mentioned briefly a long time ago: The Tau.

The 12th crusade ends with the Tau homeworld and Tau'n getting glassed. Tau colonists across the empire are rounded up and shot. However, a few survive in a refugee flotilla protected by Anders Kor, who by then is making a habit of it.

What we touched on earlier, and what i'd like to prompt people to discuss, is what fleetbound Tau society and military might be like.

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>>49675901

>>49675901
I think it would be vastly different to what we know it to be.

The ruling caste of etherals wouldnt accumulate as much power, they would lack the resources to develop their technology to the same levels, they wouldn't be able to adopt smaller xeno races like they do, and without those outside forces I very much doubt they would be at all recognisable to OU Tau

>>49673172
I imagine there's some pretty big divisions among the Sons and their offshoots. The ones that still call themselves Second Sons proper are the old guard. They represent Nurgle as despair, depression, and death. They hold true to the whole "genocide all life" thing. The Beloved Sons, the followers of the Lady Nurglite Champion, are more in the whole loving family aspect of Nurgle. Those two main schools of thought probably rub each other the wrong way for a while, until Saul comes back and unifies them. Symbolically, it might be cute if he "marries" the female Nurglite. Makes the whole legion his sons in a more literal way. They just want all life to be embraced and be part of the glowing family. There are probably other offshoots, but I haven't fleshed them out yet.

>>49675901
I asked about that a couple threada back

Random question, but is there a concrete answer given to why the C'tan can't be possessed by demons?

>>49676114
Concrete answer? No.

Could be they are just uncorruptable by nature, could be they are just indomitable forces of will that not even daemons can contest with.
Or anything inbetween.

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>>49676086
>Lady Nurglite Champion

How about 'Perpetua Sofia'

>>49676191
I was just thinking about it, because it strikes me as really weird. Also, why can't Necrons be corrupted? Is it something about Necrodermis that actively repels demons? It just raises serious questions given the whole men of iron thing and the justification for no sentient machines. If a machine was smart enough, couldn't it just replicate whatever they're doing?

How do the C'tan even work? How do they control reality without psyker abilities?

>>49676114
>>49676223
The C'tan are basically star demons from a different plane of reality as the chaos gods.

>>49676246
I thought they were Chaos gods but from this plane of reality. Essentially.

>>49676261
Yeah thats pretty much how I saw them.

>>49675901
I think there's also been some talk of the Jade Empire taking some Tau population in, mostly Earth Caste Engineers because they want the tech and as I understand it, the Jade Empire is relatively close to the Tau worlds. (And are into keeping the Protectorate and the Minorum fighting eachother instead of the Jade Empire.)

>>49675795
From Lexicanum:
The Imperial Truth was a doctrine preached by the Imperium of Man during the years of the Great Crusade.
The contents of this belief involved the removal of religion, faith and superstition that plagued numerous Human worlds that had been recontacted by Terra. Instead, the Imperial Truth was offered by Iterators that provided the cold clarity of logic and science to the masses. Other key aspects of the Imperial Truth was the manifest destiny of mankind to rule the stars, the exceptionalism of humanity, and the danger posed by all xenos.

>>49676086
>Symbolic Marriage
That's an awesome idea.

>Sons between the death of Saul and his return
I like the idea of a major breakdown of order.

So radioactive death cult.
Family values.
Maybe a toxic bunch all about living things?

>>49676300
So what xeno's are just allowed in the crusader states?

At least Alexios is maintaining the proper ideals of crushing xeno whereever they are found.

>>49675455
>Void Lords
My understanding of where they're at is that they're very humanistic and batshit insane.
Basically, the universe is a cold, uncaring place. They don't need metaphysics to posit eternal daemons and sanity shredding terrors, they have !xenomorphs and the cold, uncaring stars. The universe is full of horrific things that will destroy you without a second thought, and so, the only way to deal with the terror of being, of understanding the pointlessness of existence is to take those things that terrify you and beat the crap out of them. To live in the void, one must be able to stare into the void and to do that, they need to deal with the void in themselves.
You take what terrifies you most and face it head on and deal with it. You integrate it into yourself, until you have mastered it and made it part of you. To fight xenomorphs, you become like the xenomorphs, and as you do that, it is they that fear you.
The only way to live is by eternally overcoming ones fears, since fear is what limits you, it is the mindkiller, the little death that leads to total annihilation.
So the Void Lords use terror as a path to liberation from mortal concerns. Their battlecry, in full is "liberate tutame ex terrore" liberate yourself from fear.
It's just that they usually use the first part only, save yourself.

So when they go to a planet, anyone not driven mad in terror is seen as potentially worthy of joining them. They've proven by surviving and facing their terrors that they are worthy of existing.
I'm thinking the Void Lords crew is fanatically loyal for this reason.

>>49676669
>fanatically loyal
>until their commander fails a LD test

>>49676518
Not quite. According to various mentions in the OU fluff, some compliant Xenos could be offered protectorate status. Just what this entails is unclear, but from Fulgrim and that one where the Black Templars don't purge xenos who revere the Emperor, it seems to involve willingness to submit totally to Imperial rule and suitable culture.
Mainstream Imperial stuff is monodominant and most xenos in 40k are mindsearing horrors, so usually purging them is the best option, but there is precedent for not purging some Xenos.

Kor is all about making friends with Xenos and it bites him in the ass sometimes, whereas the other states have varying degrees of monodominant ideology.
The Jade Empire figures chaos is the number one priority. If you've got xenos that are simply merchants like the Demirung and Nissacar, they will leave them alone as long as they keep to themselves and submit to Jade Empire over watch. It saves time and energy trying to hunt them down and exterminate them. Shit like this is incredibly rare, though. Kroot are purged.
Vespids also are probably a protectorate given that they were willing to submit to the Tau, you figure they'd be willing to submit to the Emperor.
The Tau would have been purged by the Jade Empire since they would not submit, but Alexios kinda solved that one by fighting Kor in the Tau Empire.
(I have a feeling that first contact would have been something like
Water Caste Diplomat: Yeah, we all must serve the state, it's called the common good. Join us.
Sky Serpent: Right on. But you join us. We're bigger and more organized. Also you don't know about chaos.
WC: Nah, we have Ethereals to guide us. They set the Greater Good.
SS: That's some bullshit right there. Our civil service system works to do the same thing. The Ethereals are going to need to submit to that.
WC: Fuck that. Your whole ruling class is Astartes and augmented humans who rule in the interests of the military. It's a military dictatorship...

>>49676873
...
>SS: No shit, we're at war.

>WC: For 10,000 years?

>Yeah.

>Oh. Wow. That sucks. But I suppose it binds the people.

>Yep, it's really useful for that. But we really don't have time to worry about protecting your independence or whatever. The Ethereals are going to have to submit to us. Otherwise if you raid our worlds or get in our way, we will destroy you. Ordinarily, we wouldn't even take that chance but you seem about as likely to fall to chaos as an Eldar Craftworld, ie. Not gonna happen, so submit or stay the hell out of our way and give us no reason for a preemptive strike because our survival comes first.)

Of course, when Alexios puts his foot in the Tau problem, the Jade Empire has a perfect opportunity to scoop up some Earth caste engineers and the like without those troublesome Ethereals.

Tau refugees are smuggled in in limited numbers specifically to do engineering and are brought into the Jade Empire thought system, which is pretty close to the Tau one.

But the factor that drives it is the fact that the Tau have something that the Jade Empire wants and are pliant. Otherwise they'd be stuck salvaging Tau wrecks.

Again, this is very rare, it just seems like the Tau live in a magical pixie land with friendly xenos and there's not much to be gained diverting resources into exterminating the Demirung who would otherwise be happy to mine and trade and listen to Xenos (which is what they do with the Tau.)

>>49677013
Why would you even want earth caste engineers?
They aren't show to be particularly amazing, they only seem to be because in canon the imperium is rooted in stagnancy and bogged down by the mechanicus, if they weren't they would be far far far above the Tau.

Heck, they are anyway.

>>49677097
Really? I thought their battle suits were pretty decent.

There was also the issue of FTL floated a few threads back and the idea was that due to the warp situation, warp travel is less reliable and because the systems are closer together, alternate FTL systems are desirable, including the Tau system. I forget the reasoning, though, but the idea was that everyone has been trying to get better FTL with mixed sucess.

>>49677201
their battle suits are essentially jump pack power armour, I guess there sub systems are good. But they aren't so much as 'advanced' as they are willing to advance. Which in this universe is much more common.

i think everyone everywhere always wants to improve ftl.

>>49673172
The Black Suns believe that reality and warp are in a cycle of destruction and recreation that must be stopped.
They believe there are forces older than the universe, and wish to understand these beings not from reality nor warp. To this end, they seek knowledge of all kinds, no matter how irrelevant or strange it seems.
They aim to release Komus, the Tyrant Star, for various purposes: to end the cycle, to understand the underlying truths of existence, to see the madness of Komus consume all.
Most of them chase after the star and knowledge of it for a much simpler reason: it calls to them. A heartbeat in the immaterium, secrets hidden in ruins older than biological life in the area of space that is the Calixis sector, its neighbour sectors and the nearby Halo Stars.

>>49673172
The Bloodhounds' religion is relatively simple: blood for the blood god. They believe very strongly in might makes right, and to them Khorne is the mightiest, so that makes him right. They itch at the opportunity to make offerings to Khorne, with the hope that he will bless them with strength.

Post-ascension Balthasar is a demi-god of haphazard slaughter and recklessness, and his hellish attentions are drawn to battlefields with heavy losses on both sides. Chaos Bloodhounds intentionally churn their cultist slaves against the enemy as an offering to the blood god to make their remaining soldiers even stronger.

So what info should I start gathering, now that the descriptions are pretty much done? Should I get back to the timeline?

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Looking at the legion schemes. Am I the only one that thinks the Paladins and Arms are too similar? They're both solid schemes, but they would not be differentiable from a distance.

>>49677097
Tau apparently do innovate and build at a startling speed.

What was it, 1500 years from warring bronze age clans to fully space capable conquerors?

>>49679216
9000 years from the discovery of fire to FTL. They were encountered during the Great Crusade as hunters and gatherers I believe.

>>49679235
Correction, 6000. They weren't encountered during the Crusade, but by later Explorator fleets.

>>49679263
That's ridiculously impressive.

Even if you're relatively generous and count our hunter gatherer period as beginning when the first known bow was invented, it still took us 64,000 years to get to where we are now from there.

>>49679333
It's thanks to eugenics. No joke.

>>49679216
>>49679235
>>49679263
But is that innate, or something that was facilitated by a combination of events such as the entire race unified under a single rule, a possible einstein characters or two, as well as pure luck in terms of having the right people in the right places to make the right decisions.

Is this corroborated by fluff, technically not, but is it much more reasonable explanation of events to explain learning speed increased by a magnitude of 10?

I mean at this point, if its not that, they should also have surpassed the Imperium.

>>49679337
even that relies on them being able to manipulate genetics which is a late development. unless they are manipulated from the outside. And if so, it leaves the question of how useful they are outside of that generation.

>>49679356
The Ethereals show up basically out of nowhere shortly after the Warp storm cuts them off from the rest of the galaxy. They then unify all the warring and distinctly evolved tribes and institute a strict caste system and communism. They have eugenics programs to ensure hyper specialization for each caste.

>>49679372
So pretty much
>entire race unified under a single rule, a possible einstein characters or two, as well as pure luck in terms of having the right people in the right places to make the right decisions.
+
Eugenics.

The point is, taking in the Tau will not provide the same bonuses to another faction as they would to their own. Its not just an innate thing they can all do. Its a careful balance of various things, most of which are culture based (etherals, eugentics, general society of progression).

Its not so simple as them all being genius mechanics and experts in experimental quantum physics.

>>49679420
Well, by the time you would find them the Earth Caste would likely be eugenics'd enough that they'd have innate R&D talents that would outstrip your average human by a wide margin.

>>49679434
human maybe, but doubtful they'd outstrip an Astartes with a photographic memory, and having been raised in a culture that also facilitates progression.

And
>by the time you'd find them
Remember they are found earlier in AU as the second the warp storms end they are met by 2 astarte factions.

And eugenic programs need to be continually worked on. Otherwise the traits can breed themselves out, invalidating the exercise. Thats assuming enough Earth Caste are saved to allow a genetically stable pool for reproduction, and no dominant genes that compete.

>>49679420
Well, it should be noted that their eugenically modified to be good at engineering, and they're starting from a much better work ethos.

They also seem to just have a much better collective understanding of things like computerization and advanced physics, simply because the Emperor didn't want people to understand that stuff.

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Minor Prompt: What helmet variants on here would your Legion or a Legion you've worked on have a particular preference for?

>>49679648

#13 for my fearsome Space Bunnies.

>>49679692
Can't unsee.

Can't fucking unseeeeeeeee

Jesus I always knew Ultramarines were prolific but damn.

>>49669238
>Angel of Perdition, Slayer of Kings, Death's Ferryman

STOLEN.

>>49676223
It's heavily implied that C'tan are integral functions of the material universe. Like Galactus or some shit.

>>49675164
>Behemoth Guard and their forges
I'm thinking they're basically all crazy M C Escher worlds. The forges are worked by slaves and there's human noble clans which are encouraged to compete. They're basically heretek magi houses who backstab to keep Tzneetch happy. You can rise from slave to high magi and fall just as far.

Bump?

If a the Negators had a void battle against someone in the primary asteroid ring after entering the Sol System during the Siege of Terra, who are they most likely to have fought?

>>49682469
Do they arrive before or after the actual Siege starts?

>>49682565
Probably a little after.

>>49682469
When in the Heresy do they get to Terra, since at the moment the Siege of Terra seems:
>Open Heresy:
Judgement Bringers, Eyes
Oathsworn
Fists on Mars
>After Armageddon
Gengrat arrives
>After that really badass warp conduit battle
Knights Exemplar inbound
>After Vanaheim
Storm Hammers
>Right before the end
Scions and Serpents

I think a void war between the KE and the Negators would be crazy badass, maybe some isolated Void Lords.

>>49682660
>>49682565
>>49682469
Then it's either the Scions or the Serpents. Serpents seem more likely, Scions seem like they'd want to stay at the Imperial Palace.

>>49682706
In which case, I imagine the Warmaster sees the scales tipping against him and proceeds to infiltrate even as the Scions begin to land. Preventing this and threatening loyal reinforcement operations is the Negators fleet, so Xun meets them mid-system in the Asteroid Belt, with the intention of keeping Terra-bound traitors tied up there.
Supporting him are some void craft from some other legions, but it's really the Serpent's show, given the palace siege is just that, a siege.
None the less, Xun blames Aodhán for keeping him from the Emperor's side at Terra.

In the end, all the Scions and the Serpents manage to do is secure the loyal retreat.

>>49682790
>Blood in the Void
Even as they translate in-system, the Sky Serpents deploy to block traitor reinforcements from reaching Terra. The fleet scatters amidst the Primary Asteroid Ring even as the Negator fleet begins to arrive, lead by the Answerer herself.
With the Wrath of Heaven over Terra, a mission better suited to her orbital bombardment capabilities, Xun leads the battle from the bridge of the Ultima Ratio Regum.

The result is a grueling battle amidst the debris, the asteroids nullifying Aodhan's advantage in ranged firepower. Under Xun's command is also the flotilla of Nof'artos and the result is a frenetic series of hit and run assaults seeking to drive Aodhán to split up his fleet and meet the Sky Serpents on their terms.
When the Negators show unusual discipline, the Sky Serpents herd asteroids into the midst of Aodhan's densely packed ships. This finally disrupts the Negators fleet and they suffer heavy losses, despite stiff resistance.

All this ultimately comes to naught when the Emperor is assassinated and additional traitor forces arrive in system to support Aodhán.

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I suppose I should write some characters for the Scions, huh?

>High Councilor Barachiel
A participant in hundreds of wars and thousands of battles, Barachiel is hailed as one of the finest logistical minds since the days of the primarchs. The High Councilor earned his fame as a member of the uninterred during the ninth crusade, when he successfully managed his company's campaign across the strait of Jiorge to destroy a major necron bastion.

>Venerable Chaplain Kilgrave
A member of the High Council, Kilgrave is an incredibly charismatic individual. Armed with a seismic hammer and an inferno cannon, Kilgrave is a force to be reckoned with on the battlefield and a rallying beacon to the battle brothers under his command.

>Chief Librarian Idrias Stern
Perhaps the oldest living Space Marine in the galaxy, Stern is a veteran of a thousand psychic wars. One of the original Terran legionnaires, Stern advised his primarch in matters of the warp on many occasions.

>>49682964
Maybe the High Councilor of Amaranth should be called the Lord High Councilor as he has more power than High Councilors of other chapters.

>>49682660
After Vanaheim. They're the ones fighting the Storm Hammers on Vanaheim.

>>49682790
>>49682960
Sounds good. That said, Aodhán does get through to Terra, probably with only part of his force. It's likely he just barrels through and lets his Legion fight in the asteroid field once they've been split up. I was imagining the pivotal battle was over the gun emplacements on Ceres.

>>49683209
Sounds good to me. I agree that Aodhan should just power through to Terra though, he needs that climactic fight with Sarco.

>>49683209
>Aodhán gets through
Ooh and Xun has the opportunity to give chase, but he decides not to because that would weaken his line and allow more Negators through and he knows Anshul and Kashaln are due any day now.
So he watches Aodhán go right by him or something and there's an exchange to the effect of:
>Afraid?
>No, duty.
And it haunts him because he knows just how lethal Aodhan is. He sends a warning to Klaus to prepare himself, but it's one of those times where you make the right choice and know it and still feel like shit. As it is, Aodhán sacrifices a significant portion of his legion to rush and gain glory on Terra.

>Battle of Ceres
I'm thinking this one is a ZM type battle with some armor battles on the surface. The Negators take part of the facility and the Sky Serpents team up with some Void Lords to take it back.

>>49682964
On second thought, Stern shouldn't be the chief librarian. He's far too old, and only stirs when the legion is called to war.

>Chief Librarian Heskus Tarn
Tarn is a bastion of psychic might. As a librarian of the Undying Scions, he is privy to the writings and memoirs of Idrias Stern, quite possibly the most experienced human psyker in the galaxy. Tarn earned his place after banishing the daemon primarch Saul Sheridan during one of the latter's omnicidal rampages into the crusader states.

>>49679648
Knights Exemplar and Crimson Warhawks use 8 don't they? I saw that posted once.

>>49679648
>>49679658
>>49679666
Well these are helmet patterns that are developed throughout the Crusade/Heresy/Post-Heresy, so it depends on what time period you're talking about. Also it excludes corvus helmets for some reason?

>>49684375
Wait. Would Corvus patterns even exist? Not only were they named after Corvus Corax, but they were designed and tested with the help of the Raven Guard. I remember that from Deliverance Lost.

>>49679648
I could see the Scions using 6, 7, 8, 11 and 12.
What are those awesome lower face pieces called?

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>>49685045
We have a number of fast-attack legions that might be responsible for its creation, which gets us into the ol' Leman Russ situation again.

Accipiter (hawk) pattern armor?
Serpent pattern armor?
Canus pattern armor?

Hawks like crusader helms and I think Raydanon dislikes beakies as much as he dislikes jump packs. I lean toward Canus pattern armor beacuse it kinda looks like a wolf's snout as much as it looks like a raven's beak.

>>49685369
Whaaaat? I mean, I think beakies look kind of rediculous, but how can someone dislike jump packs?

I'm all for the Canus Armor. It's short and sounds kind of like Corvus, so it's a good fit.

>>49685045
You talking about mkVI? You mean Talon Pattern?
I'm thinking that Graha'Nak, Raydon, and Xun would have been in support of it. Sarco too, till the box.

Actually, worth asking how and when some things get invented:
>Razorbacks
I'm thinking Gengrat does that as a field modification

>Sicarans
Xun and/or Alexios bug Gengrat or Marcus to help them on that, same way Gorillaman bugs Manus

>StormRavens and Thunderhawks
Raydon

>Typhon
Enoch?

>Storm shields
Sent out for testing with Storm Hammers and the Scions and a few other legions?

>Assault Cannon
Sent out for testing with the Sky Serpents?

>Tartaros Pattern

>Various patterns of dreadnoughts

>Centurion Armor

What else gets added over time?

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>>49685439
>>Tartaros Pattern
I don't know where I got the idea but I've been imagining that Tartaros and later Indomitus patterns are fielded heavily by Judgement Bringers. The Tartaros pattern's aesthetic especially seems very JB to me.

>>Centurion Armor
Isn't this invented/rediscovered like waaaaaaaaay post-heresy? I thought they were relatively new tech even in 40k.

Do we have a name for the Lemen Russ? Because my vote is for the Saul Sheridan.

If only because I think Sheridan is a badass name for a tank, even if it is an IRL tank.

>>49685507
It's already the Sarco Funerus, sorry sempai.

>>49685474
Yeah, Centurions are 'new'. They were apparently uncovered after the Age of Age of Apostasy, so in M36.

>>49685507
I think we settled on the Funerus Tank. Though a Saul Sheridan battle tank sounds cool too.
Marcus could have designed multiple tank patterns, naming them after some of his bretheren.

>>49685474
>Centurions
M36 if memory serves. No reason they can't be recovered early. Or not at all.

>Tartaros
Huh. I'd been imagining Enoch as a Cataphractii man. I'll think about that though.

>>49685369
I can get behind Canis. Put it out for testing with a few legions.

>>49685507
Isn't the Sheridan an actual irl tank?
Either way, the loyalists aren't going to call it that. The traitors might, but I think they're more likely to name it after Enoch... no, actually. He's not a tank man. So Saul or Balthasar or Gengrat.
I think Gengrat would be associated with far stranger things than the ubiquitous Guard tank, so... Saul or Balthasar in the Dark Imperium.

>>49685575
Shit, that makes me realize that there would actually be a shit load of Crusader vs Dark Imperium Guardsmen battles, without space marines involved. Including tank battles.

>>49685575
I think calling it by a different primarch's name in the DI is a bit...weird. I dunno, feels forced to me. Maybe they just call it the Imperial Battle Tank?

>>49685600
That's basically what Segmentum Tempestus is like nonstop for 10,000 years. We should probably focus on that more.

>>49685607
>>49685607
>>49685600

"They're sending in Bornhold tanks commisar!"

"Those are Sinistrum tanks, guardsman!"

*BLAM*

>>49685600
>>49685618
Let's do up some regiments of Guard linked with legions, starting with some of the ones during the heresy.

>Sky Serpents
Thule Rimeguard
Section 8
(Both have a bit on the wiki, will add more later.)

>>49685607
To an extent, I think they'll want something to call it.

>>49685661
>_<
Probably far more common than they'd like.

>>49682964
>>49684063
Thoughts?

>>49682964
>>49685808
>Kilgrave
>Charismatic
You cheeky cunt

I like 'em, nothing to really add or criticize.

>>49685439
Not so much a technology, but destroyers got their start in thr Oathsworn where they are considered a sacred role.

>>49685906
He's also purple.

>>49685933
I suppose he his. Damn. I'm literally watching Jessica Jones right now. Shit's good.

>>49685961
I skipped it, but I'm watching Luke Cage and I watched both seasons of Daredevil.

>>49685994
IMO Daredevil is much better than Luke Cage so far. LC was good, but I feel like it sometimes the writing and cinamatography were a little weak. Also, the show is kinda propped up by it's four main characters and shades. None of the side characters are acted or written that well.

>>49685994
I wanted to watch Luke Cage, but I decided to watch Jessica Jones first. Really suprised me with how dark it is.

>>49686007
I should get to Daredevil eventually too. It's just that the movie kind of tainted the character for me.

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>>49685994
Jessica Jones is INFINITELY better than Luke Cage.

>Barachiel
>major uninterred scion character
my desire to know more intensifies. Did you read the Angels Successor Chapter I wrote for the 9th Crusade a while back? The Crypt Vultures? Maybe their commander might have some relationship with Barachiel?

>>49686155
I think you misunderstood. Barachiel first came into the public eye when he was uninterred, but now that he's Lord High Councilor he is a dreadnought. I do have Captain Marius, who is the single most knowledgeable individual when it comes to the necrons. He featured in one of my stories, as you might recall.

>>49686275
Oh ok, and yeah I remember the Marius story.

I had a thought. It's been confirmed that the Emperor stole a chunk of his power from the Chaos Gods. Well what if the Warmaster stole that chunk back when he shanked the Emperor, but kept it for himself and didn't give it back to the Chaos Gods? It gives him enough of an edge to maintain his Independence and keeps him powerful enough that no other Primarch would want to cross him, certainly not in single combat. Also that power would possibly torment him in some way, the spirit of the dead-Emperor haunting the Warmaster or at least reminding him constantly of what he did.

>>49687103
pretty neat idea

>>49687103
"You are weeeak REDACTED."

"Shut your not-face, brainghost Emperor! You are not friend...."

>>49687135

To expand on it, what is one of the things keeping the Emperor's Warp Presence form becoming another Chaos God is because a chunk of his soul was in that power the Warmaster stole? So if you could kill the Warmaster (Or at least banish him to the Warp if he's a Daemon Prince, that has never been elaborated on) that power and fragment would return to the Emperor and he would be reborn? Perfect for the End Times Scenario.

>>49687179

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSdfiVzmz50

>>49687185
He's not a demon prince, I'm fairly sure he rejected demonhood.

Thing is though; while that is a cool story oppurtunity, I think it's too convenient. Imperium Asunder is already way less grimdark than the OU.

Unless ofcourse, we want to mirror the OU, where the Imperium is without a real win scenario and where Chaos actually has a decent chance of pulling through,
by having the Dark Imperium be shafted and giving the Crusader States an actual chance to 'win'.

>>49687287

You need that tiny shard of hope that will never happen, but it real enough that it makes the overall grimdarkness even more grimdark. If there is no hope at all, it's just dark for the sake of it.

Besides, even if the Emperor became a Chaos God, it wouldn't be the happy ending anyone in the Crusader States would wish for.

>>49687287
>He's not a demon prince, I'm fairly sure he rejected demonhood.
False, actually. The only way he defeated Klaus was from ascending to daemonic princedom after killing the Emperor.

>Imperium Asunder is already way less grimdark than the OU.
Lol wut?

>Unless ofcourse, we want to mirror the OU, where the Imperium is without a real win scenario and where Chaos actually has a decent chance of pulling through,
by having the Dark Imperium be shafted and giving the Crusader States an actual chance to 'win'.
The Dark Imperium already won. Chaos has a lot more than a 'decent chance of pulling through,' it pulled through in M31.

>>49661671
If your model is killed by a super-death attack, your opponent is allowed to place the figure on the floor and stamp on it.

>>49687347
Hm, I didn't know that. Guess I really should get back to the timeline and figure out more about the Siege of Terra.

Maybe less grimdark isn't really the right way to describe it. It still has the dark, grit and gore.
It's just that IA doesn't have that sense of hopelessness and inevitable defeat. I'm not saying that I mind.

The more I think about it, this could actually be pretty cool, but only if killing the Warmaster would result in the Emperor becoming an actual Chaos God.
Any of you guys remember the Warhammer 50k stuff? Emperor demons and demon worlds are terrifying.

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>>49685705
Imperium Minorum has their Varangir Guardsmen whos huuuuge numbers are well suited to their focus on fortification/garrisoning stuff. Modular imperial bastions can be deployed quickly after the Angels of Light establish beachheads, but the Varangirans also garrison more permanent locations in Imperium Minorum. Lasguns, lascannons, multilasers, are preferred weapons. Melee options and officers wield chainaxes/poweraxes. Varangiran reserve regiments sometimes serve with independent contractors in the Grey Stars and sometimes even in other Crusader States.

The Storm Hammers as I recall have squires or something who fight alongside their Astartes squads in melee charges, with maybe shotguns or bolt pistols as backup. They have pretty low survival rates, but the survivors are serious fuckers.

Bloodhounds' Karachian cultists are bloodthirsty and eager to blood the enemy at high cost. They wear uniforms of human flesh and their banners are crucified corpses. Horses have great significance to the huntsmen of Karach, and the Karachian cult leaders often employ their daemonbred black stallions on the battlefield to support their masses of cultists and chainganger slaves. Life for Karachians is bitter and bloody, and they respond with dark humor and hierarchical posturing.

>>49687103
>no primarch would cross him
Someone should have told that to raydon

>>49687312
The Emps already is a chaos god.
Did something changes?

>>49687452
>doesnt have the same hopelessness
Thats really fascinating to me. Because when we created this i was drawn to how its beyond hopeless. Where the canon imperium does technically have long shot end games. This one is where they were all shut down. So it actually encapsulates hopelessness to me.

Fascinating.

>>49687103
>>49687135
>>49687179
>>49687185
I like it, but I think we should keep the nature and disposition of the Emperor ambiguous. If we start arguing about the true nature of the Emperor, there can only be BL fluff and tears.
This said, I do like the idea that some groups think that the Emperor has yet to fully ascend because the Warmaster took something from him and that killing the Warmaster will release it.

>>49687287
>>49687312
>>49687347
>>49688883
We've had the more/less grimdark chance/no chance discussion before. I think the best bet is to write the setting and build it up to a historical moment where we could write half a dozen different endings that would all be equally plausible if not equally likely, like a good end, bad end, Warmaster end, Jade Empire end, Vigil End, Aodhán end, etc.

This said, I agree with >>49687312
A little hope and a little chance for a "happy-ish" end make the darks so much darker, particularly if the hope requires the unthinkable.

>>49685705
>Behemoth Guard
Post-Heresy they'll eventually do those Corpse-Corps, but pre-heresy/during they'll need some dudes.
I think it takes two primary forms: Penal Battalions/Servitors and Legion Serfs. There may be a really badass guard regiment that wins the legion's respect.

So the Penal Battalions and Servitors are just herded from the prison sinks and a few specific worlds noted for their abhuman populations. Ogryns are particularly prized, then hopped up on Frenzon and released into the enemy lines. Arco-flaggellants are also common. After a victory, the technological components are recovered to be implanted in a new wave of unfortunates.

In contrast to the contempt for thralls, there are a few forces which have managed to win the respect of the Legion. The Legion Serfs are are recruited from the hardest and most dangerous mobile warriors from worlds like Bodt and Furiosa Proxima.
Furiosa Proxima is a dry, barren world in the Segmentum Pacificus known, like Bodt, for the ferocity of its gun clanners. On the wide plains of Furiosa Proxima, the endemic warfare is a rapid affair using the converted Goliath trucks and other such vehicles.

The gun clans of Furiosa Proxima are a favored recruiting population and those not selected for the Legion are typically deployed as Legion Auxilia forces, riding into battle alongside their legion masters, with a similar ferocity, though typically only deployed in less intense zones. On the open flats of Mars, the Gun Clans were deployed to great effect against the Fists of Mars' Skitarii Auxiliae.

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>>49690360

Let me guess, the Furiosa Gun Clan Vehicle formations are usually directed by one of these?

>>49690438
Too obvious?

But yeah. I mean how awesome is the idea of massive technical battles being waged across the surface of Mars with these guys on the one side and the Martian Skitarii on the other? It's machine cannon vs insane technological improvisation!

I'm picturing the sort of deal where the Fists of Mars Skitarii Auxiliae have a column of Dune Crawlers, when suddenly, out of nowhere a column of Behemoth Guard Auxiliae ride up in their insane panoply of war, with one of those things broadcasting frenetic hymns to the Liberated Spirit, something that sounds like some sort of insane 400 BPM trance with baroque guitar riffs.
Gun clanners on combat stims leaping from their customized Goliaths to plant melta charges on the slower Dunecrawlers, else firing Meltaguns while hanging off the sides of their war-rigs.

>>49690360
>>49690438

>Furiosa Proxima
I for one endorse all mad
max references we can pump into this setting.

>>49690638
>machine cannon vs insane technological improvisation
Proper designs will almost always trump scavanger garb. Not only because of superior materials, but having been tested and refined, with repeatable, certain results.

On the other hand Mad Max & Sound Blaster trucks.


On a more serious note, isn't mars rocky and mountainous? How useful would trucks be compared to walkers?

>>49690718
Well, part of the idea is that there's way more of the clanners and they've also got a bit of other-wordly help.
And yeah, soundblaster trucks.

Northern Mars is pretty flat, it's old seabed, after all. On the other hand, Southern Mars gets rougher due to all of the crater impacts and Noctis Labyrinthis and similar terrain is just nuts.

>>49685705
>Some other Sky Serpents dudes
Sky Serpents forces are overwhelmingly mobile. The major exception to this are the mortal siege regiments which serve alongside the legion as garrison, defensive, and bombardment forces. When a static position is to be maintained, it is the Siege Regiments that are summoned.
One of the most famous is the Sobek [something cools]. The men of Sobek are deployed under legion and mechanicum oversight to optimize fortification and siege capability. When they deploy, the Sobek Crocodiles forces dig in, constructing trenches and bunkers. The vast majority of their forces consist of artillery pieces, both self propelled and towed.
Ugh. I cannot word, but basically, I'm thinking that they do all the shit that the Sky Serpents think is a waste of an Astartes, like static defense and long duration bombardment. The difference between the Sobek Crocodiles and something like the Death Korps of Krieg is that the Crocodiles don't do assaults. They stay back, hold the trenches, bombard the enemy, and let the Astartes do that shit. They usually have some rapid exploitation capability, but they're not going to charge across no man's land. They're basically there to keep the enemy pinned in position either by resisting their advance or by shelling something important.
They do have environmental gear like the Solar Auxiliae and the Death Korps.

Regiments like them are critical during the People's War (aka Rubinek's Reaving of Tepectitlan) and are ever after seen as the People's Guard kind of a deal. They're the shield of the proletariat and buy time for the legion to do what it has to to win.
So very defensive minded siege engineers. On occasions when they are deployed offensively, they usually work closely with members of Ordo Reductor, who bring in the really big siege guns. Otherwise they chill with Macrotek and Astartes fortification specialists to make those defensive lines strong.

>>49691789
(When the butcher's bill has to be paid, it's usually charged to the account of the Argon Apemen, who are expendable. The Silverbacks drive them onward and the Crocodiles stay out of the way, mostly keeping the lines maintained and the bombardment unceasing.)
Regiments like the Crocodiles wait patiently for the enemy to overextend, to come to them and face the carefully constructed killzones.
As often as not, this is the bait in a Sky Serpents trap and even as the enemy forces crash against the Sobek bulwarks, the Sky Serpents are striking a now exposed position. The Siege Regiments are decently safe in their fortified positions and artillery dugouts, but there is also an emphasis on duty. Crocodiles who die, die in glory, they die for the People. (Again, though, they're in strong positions. It's just that when the enemy does come to take that line, they come in force.)

During the Heresy, most of the Siege Regiments, like the rest of the non-Astartes forces remained in the Jade Empire under the command of Songkulkan to fight the Iron Hearts.
Every available person was drafted either for labor regiments or for Frontline military duty and the names of the regiments that served fortifying and defending the worlds of the Jade Empire are honored to this day.

In particular, dozens of regiments fortified and manned the defenses of Tepectitlan and through their blood bought enough of a delay for Xun to return.

There are also some Mechanicum forces worthy of note from the People's War-Cybernetica cohorts, a few taghmata groups, skitarii regiments, and some Reductor covenants.
Atm, the big forges are Tindalos and Incaladion, but odds are Anvilius participated in some measure, though they probably had more pressing concerns and warp storms.

Post heresy, they deploy alongside the legion on crusade, though I'm not sure what they do with regards to Tempestus. Are forces continually sent out there?

(Shit writing, I know. I'll revise it later or something.)

>>49691905
>Are forces continually sent out there?
Im sure different factions send different amounts.

>>49685705
>Let's do up some regiments of Guard linked with legions, starting with some of the ones during the heresy.

By the time of the Heresy the Negators were already starting the building blocks of what would become the Potentiate Auxilla system they still use today.

Essentially, they grab tough dudes from barbaric worlds, give them guns, and use them to do things they have zero interest in. Stuff like holding ground. Some Tuatha may have different traditions and standards regarding this, and offer varying levels of training. Eventually groups of Auxilla become somewhat self-sufficient, pretty much replacing their own losses, and over the years develop their own cultures and military doctrines, becoming more similar to a professional fighting force than a gaggle of technobarbarians. It's possible that younger members who excel can be scouted for initiation into the Legion (hence the 'Potentiate').

In modernity many of these groups have their own religious practices, and are also recruited from Commorragh's slave population. M42 Negators employ mercenaries from across the galaxy, and some take them on as subjects of their Tuath. Kroot, Rak'gol, Commorrite Eldar, etc. Occasionally they've been known to even buy the services of Corsair Eldar.

One tradition from the Great Crusade that has continued in many Tuatha to this day is that of adopting the dependents of slain foes. Many end up in a squire-like position and they are often considered for initiation into the Legion.

>>49693769
Are the Negators like the super moguls of this continuity's mercenary community?

The way they function and how their 'chapter masters' are called voivodes makes me think of them like that. Like half the pirates in the Tempestus pay them or associate with them or whatever.

PROMPT:
Post a song you feel fits a Primarch and/or Legion.

>>49694675
>Aodhan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RlSgnpLbro

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>>49695745

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>>49695745
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jynTNYSKNuk

>"Kids are cruel, Alexios, and I'm very in touch with my inner child."

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>>49696058
>Nanomachines, Xun.

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>>49696303

>>49693769
Seems legit. I imagine they'd end up with a crazy array of weapons ranging from autoguns to splinter cannons. I'd imagine during the heresy they'd be more strictly defensive and techno-barbarian in feeling.

Which reminds me-- our heresy campaign is pretty strongly focussed on trying to get to Terra as quickly as possible or at least that's what the primarchs are doing.
This makes sense since they all know that Redacted is there. Thing is, what about the rest of the galaxy? Since the legions don't get shattered Istvaan style, they're much tighter for the push to Terra, but are there groups out of contact and do the Primarchs allocate Auxilia forces to controlling planets?
I'd imagine Anshul sends out forces to generate the Ruinstorm and there is some sort of campaign of resistance.

At the moment, I'm aware of Baqar Hadbaal and friends, some Void Lords fleets, and the Warhawks on hand for this sort of thing.

>>49694675
All of our primarchs are metal as fuck and unfortunately I don't like metal.

>>49697081
>Alexios
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-6dKVNt1C4

>>49694675
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-iPQ8pZLNTs

Gengrat or maybe Xun on a reaaaaaly bad day.

>>49694675
They aren't a legion, but here is a song, as much as a meme it is.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hW93CV6m-JU
Black Suns on a good day.
>>49695745
>>49695988
>>49696058
>>49696303
This is pure gold.

>>49697455
>not Black Hole Sun
you fucked up sempai

I was liking this for Balthasar and the Bloodhounds: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=U_oaPY0Brrw .

>>49697518
I did consider that, and it might more or less fit. Thematically it's not quite what the Black Suns are, but it is worth linking.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=K0yUIu5cnJU

Speaking of Soundgarden, I've got one for the Scions.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9kdzPkpSLM

>>49694675
Second Sons
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbmS3tQJ7Os

Other options include Run Through the Jungle, War by Edwin Starr, Fortunate Son (if only for the name gag), and War Pig.

Also, https://stonedjesus.bandcamp.com/track/rituals-of-the-sun as another option for the Black Suns.

And https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkr77jE5GFY for the Beloved Sons/Female Nurglite. I kinda want her first name to be Marie, as in Marie Curie. I can just imagine them walking through a bombed out city hosing down civilians with irrad cleansers while this plays in their helmets.

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>>49698406
>tfw you're cleansing catachan of all life and it aint me starts playing on the vox

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>>49698406
Also, the Mickey Mouse Song.

>>49698427
I don't know why no one else has thought of Vietnam marines before. It's fucking dynamite.

>>49694675
Ollanius Pius/The Resistance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLV4_xaYynY

As a reminder why https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6opaIl8h8U

Honestly though, I'm more in favor of him being dead-dead and not a perpetual. He's a symbol for the resistance, not it's actual leader.

>>49697229
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ceFw309vmWA

Xun. Maybe also the second movement of the moonlight sonata.

>>49698530
I don't get buttmad over human perpetuals like other people do. I think it's a neat idea. I don't see Ollanius as the real leader though, partly because guerilla resistances often don't have single leaders at all. I see it more like Ollanius respawning every few hundred years and renewing the hope of the rebels before being executed again.

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So are there any remaining complaints or inconsistencies with this map?

>>49698628
I'm not really for or against perpetuals as a thing, I just think it's cooler to have him as a symbol. Kind of an "I'm Spartacus" or V deal.

>>49698748
Im all for this map.

>>49698748
I see no obvious flaws in the picture, and it shows the rough areas of interest quite nicely.

So, what's the latest on Faustus? Went through the wiki and I think the concept is cool as fuck but his page is way out of date.

Also, anything in particular need to be fleshed out? What kind of factions are needed?

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>>49699747
>So, what's the latest on Faustus? Went through the wiki and I think the concept is cool as fuck but his page is way out of date.
Someone else can probably explain it better than I can but Faustus' homeworld is Luna and during the heresy he basically holds it against everyone, traitor and loyalist, while releasing hordes of genesmithed monstrosities the likes of which would give fabulous bile a boner. He decides to crash the fucking moon into Terra but the warp shifts caused by the Emperor's death cause it to freeze in the sky like Majora's mask, a constant reminder of tenuous grasp the Warmaster holds on the Imperium. Pic related is Faustus.

>Also, anything in particular need to be fleshed out? What kind of factions are needed?
Moar non-astartes Imperial forces like guard regiments Knight houses and planetary garrisons
Moar xenos and moar for our current xenos
Moar successor chapters and chaos warbands
Basically the Spess Muhreenz are very fleshed out and everything else isn't.

>>49699873
tfw you're literally too retarded to keep track of only two trips

>>49698748
Are we doing anything with the Archeotects? Did they replace that one anons proposal of robots and the other anons Extropians?

>>49699893
>Did they replace that one anons proposal of robots and the other anons Extropians?
Yeah it all got merged into one idea better than the sum of its parts. Their role is mostly the same as other xenos in 40k: it's something for the spess muhreenz to fight other than spess muhreenz. Primary antagonists for them are the Storm Hammers and Bloodhounds, though they'd rather face the SH and avoid chaos.

>>49699873
Cool. What's daily life on the surface of Terra like beyond 1984(0k)?

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>>49699951
That depends on which namefag you ask, we haven't really made up our minds. It ranges from just regular Terra with a more dystopian feel, to daemon-filled wastelands and hellhives with some semblance of normalcy in himalayzia.

What we agree on is that the Warmaster somesort of field of forced normality around him, either as an ironically literal part of his pact with chaos, some sort of semi-null warp damping force innate to him, or as an effect of the Emperor's soul shard within him.

Around Terra in Segmentum Solar is basically the same as the Eye of Terra. The veil between real and warp is extremely thin, and many worlds have fallen into the demesne of the ruinous powers.

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>>49698427
>tfw your attached Oathsworn starts to hear It Ain't Me in the middle off a fire fight

>>49699951
In the safe zones? 1984 plus regular hive world life? Out of them? Eclipse Phase Earth. Faustus fucked shot up permanently and there's too many Null beasts for Daemons to make it worse.

>>49700210
Did we ever decide that Luna was hovering above earth? I liked the idea that Luna was sent hurtling through the warp and comes into realspace every once in a while, prompting expeditions to find lost tech beneath the surface.

>>49700243
Yes, I believe it was decided that Luna is hovering over the Imperial Palace Majora's Mask style. Also, that the Warmaster has roofed over the entire planet and denies that Luna exists, at least to the general population.

I kind of feel like rolling up a Dark Eldar kabal. Mind if we put it in here when I'm done?

>>49700405
Actually, I was wanting to get some clarity on that. To what extent are the Dark Elder still a thing? Especially since Aodhán is listed as being located in Commorragh.

>>49700611
*Eldar. Goddamn auto correct.

>>49700243
Yeah it was decided a while ago.

>>49700243
That might work for Mars though?

>>49700611
They exist still, some flee to the Resurgent Empire, others stay in Commorragh, others elsewhere in the webway.

I'm feeling like cleaning up the Faustus page on the wiki. Is there already an anon taking point on him?

>>49700611

Pretty sure they evacuated the Dark City and shacked up with the Eldar Empire.

>>49701041
No, I'm fairly certain that it's business as usual in Commoragh, only the Vect and the archons vie for influence with Aodhan, since he's turning into Khaine.

>>49700932
No there isn't feel free.

SPEAKING OF WHICH.

Im finalising the stats/rules for the primarchs, but have no received anything for
Gengrat, Faustus, Oramar, or Saul in terms of special rules / names for gear.

What im running with until I get anything.
>Gengrat rules
The Voices, Techno-Cult, Panopy of Battle
>Saul rules
War Platform, Battle Commander, Destroyer of Worlds
> Oramar rules
Mono-filament whip, Hoverboard, Runes of Fate
> Xun rules
Psychic Mastery, Flowing River/Raging Mountain, Preternatural Strategist.
> Faustus
Combat Drugs, Genetic Prodigy, This isn't even my final form.

Importantly as well, I have no "sire of the X" for them either.

>>49701498
ANDERS - Battle Trance, Lions Shield, Friend of Man
> Sire of the Paladins of Kor
LA: Gain stubborn, as do allied Realm Guard and Solar Auxillia units. If a Realm Guard of Solar Auxillia unit is destroyed friendly Paladins of Kor gain Rage and Furious Charge until the end of the turn.
> Battle Trance
In challenges Anders re-rolls failed hits, and gains FNP (5+)
> Lions Shield
Confers a 4+ rerollable invulnerable save. Likewise, any psychic power cast against Anders or his unit can be successfully negated by a roll of 3+
> Justice
Str: User AP:2 Other: Shred, counts all wounds inflicted in a challenge as 2 for the purposes of combat resolution
> Punishment
Range: 12" Str: 7 AP: 2 Other: Master-crafted, Pistol
> Shining Armour
Confers a 2+ Armour save, as well as the crusader and zealot rules.

RUBINEK - Ironheart, Witch Breaker, Electro-magnetic Murder
> Sire of the Iron Hearts
LA: Hatred (Everything) and LES within 24" Rubinek gain fearless.\
> THe Iron Heart
Rubinek succeeds on IWND rolls on 3+, Rubinek has relentless and FNP (5+)
> Gaze of Destruction
At the end of each combat round Rubinek can choose one enemy model in base contact. It must pass an initiative test or suffer a STR10AP2 Lance hit.
> Maille of the Iron King
2+ Armour Save, 3+ Invulnerable Save, Immunity to concussion, fleshbane, poison, and blind. and incorporates a twin linked plasma cannon.
> Witch Breaker
STR: +2 AP: 2 Other: Unweildy, Witch-bane: Each Successful wounds against psykers inflict a perils of the warp on that psyker.

>>49701546
ENOCH - Relentless, Executioner, Precision Bombardments, Orbital Bombardment.
> Sire of the Judgement Bringers
LA: All Blast weapons used may re-roll the scatter dice. When a friendly LA model utilises a one-use Orbital Bombardment weapon roll a D6, on a 4+ they may use that weapon once more. On second use the roll to re-use becomes 5+, then 6+, then become unavailable.
> Relentless beyond Reason
Enoch has a 4+ FNP against ranged attacks and can re-roll fails.
> Executioner
Str: +2 AP: 2 Two Handed, Instant Death
> Mantle of Fire
Confers 2+ Armour Save, 4+ Invulnerable Save, and 2 independant heavy bolter turrets. These may fire at different units, or each gains twin linked if fired at the same target.

ANSHUL - Phenominal Cosmic Power, Emenations in steel, Asura Astra
> Sire of the Arms of Asura
LA: Require 3 rather than 2 rolls of a 6 to incur perils of the Warp. Anshul may re-roll a single die when making a psychic test.
> Phenominal Cosmic Power
Anshul is a level 5 psyker who rolls on the Telekinesis, Pyromancy, Malefic Daemonology, Telepathy, and Biomancy tables. In Addition all Psyker units within 24" count as being 1 mastery level higher for the purposes of generating warp charges. When attempting to deny the witch against Anshul, enemy units suffer a -1 penalty to their rolls.
> Emenations in Steel
STR: User, AP: 2, Mastercrafted, Paired Weapons
> Astra Asura
Once per turn, Anshul can increase the strength or decrease the AP of a witchfire, beam or nova ability by 2 (to a maximum of Str10/AP1)

>>49701559
MARCUS - Fist of Mars, Master of Machines, World-Breaker, Servo Harness
>Sire of the Fists of Mars
LA: Vehicles gain IWND, any attempts made to repair maybe by LA: FoM may be re-rolled
> Master of Machines
Can repair vehicles within 6" on a roll of 3+ during the shooting phase instead of firing normally.
> Fist of Mars
Grants Smash. In addition in close combat he may re-roll his invulnerable save. In addition it may redirect its considerable forcefield into a ranged attack resolving at: RNG: 18" STR: 8 AP: 3 Assault 1, Armourbane. However if used in this way, until the beginning of his next turn he may not utilise the Fist to allow him to re-roll his invulnerable save in close combat.
> Crimson Plate
2+ Armour Save, 3+ Invulnerable Save and enemy shooting attacks suffer -1 Strength.
> World Breaker
Underslung modified heavy bolter with the following profile
RNG: 36" STR: 5 AP: 4 Other: Heavy 3, Hail of Death: If he does not move he may fire it a second time in the shooting phase. If he fires both volleys at the same target it gain shred.

>>49701580
WARMASTER - All seeing Eyes, Iron Rod, Lord of War (night vision, acute senses)
> Sire of the Eyes of the Warmaster
LA: All infantry in a detachment that has the Warmaster as Warlord gain objective secured and acute senses special rules and gain +1 Leadership.
> All Seeing Eyes
You may re-roll all reserve rolls and force your opponent to re-roll theirs. Friendly units with the drop pod assault rule can choose to enter on any turn rather than just the first.
> Iron Rod
Str: +2 AP: 2 Force Weapon, Specialist Weapon, Soul Blaze, Armourbane
RNG: 12" Str: 6 AP3 Other: Beam, One use only.
> Pistol of Albion
RNG: 36" Str: X AP: 1 Type: Pistol, Sniper, Rending, Twin-linked.
> Armour of Terra
2+ Armour Save, 4+ Invulnerable save, can re-roll failed armour saves, and adds +2 to Deny the Witch attempts.
> Psyker Mastery Level 2
Divination and Telepathy (Malefic if heresy era)

>>49701498
>Gengrat Rules
I don't think we've decided what Gengrat's melee weapon looks like. Presumably it's something nasty, maybe a flail, a scythe, or something. Massive hammer/mace ala Sauron's Grond? The Hammer of the Underworld.

Ruleswise, I'm imagining he's got something that lets him mess with the machine spirits around him. Possibly cybertheurgy, but also something akin to that hijacking power.

He's also got his personal pimp-mobile, Ancalagon.


The Sire of X rules are dependent on the LA for their legion.
For Behemoth Guard, I'm thinking:

Inviolate Armor: Incoming Fire is at -1 Strength
Cut them down: Within 12", all shots have pinning
Mandatory Drawback: Must have all the tanks and/or monstrous creatures

>>49699951
>>49700006
>>49700210
PSA Translated from the NewSpeak:

Friends and Comrades, it has come to my attention that there have been pernicious rumors that there is some sort of 'second earth' hovering in the sky over the Imperial Palace.
That is quite simply absurd. How could there be possibly be another Terra in the sky? As everyone knows, the ground is beneath our feet and this fanciful 'moon' that people speak of, what would hold it in the air? Clearly this is another farcical attempt by our enemies to unsettle us and disrupt our efforts to form a perfect society. If you need any proof of this, just look at the ground beneath your feet. Do not, under any circumstances look up into the sky. There is nothing to see there. The urge to look into the sky is the beginning of thoughtcrime.
Do not give in to our enemy.
Remember, the Warmaster is watching.

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>>49701498
Hear me out cause this is gonna be a really op combo but also a really cool one.

>Main Weapon
The Unseen Lash
S User AP2 Melee, Monofilament,

>Monofilament
>When rolling To Wound for a weapon that has this special rule, use the
target’s Initiative instead of its Toughness (note that the model’s Toughness is still used to determine whether an attack has the Instant Death special rule).

>In addition, if a 6 is rolled To Wound when attacking with a weapon that has this special rule, the Wound is resolved at AP2 unless the weapon is AP1.
(this part is useless because it's already ap2)

Monofilament is a pretty awesome rule for a primarch to have when it comes to dueling other primarchs. It'd make Oramar kind of a counter to primarchs like Rubinek.

>Sidearm
The Hrud Fusil
Range 12" S* AP2 Pistol, Concussive, Graviton

Concussive reduces the target's Initiative to 1.
Monofilament makes you compare S against I instead of T.
Which is now 1.
U ded son

>>49701676
ALEXIOS - White Angel, Command Array, Angel has Fallen.
> Sire of the Angels of Light
LA: All AoL gain scout, and gain +1 Initiative on the charge.
> Command Array
Land Speeder platform with 12/12/12 with a single void shield (14/14/14), in addition contains 4 independant multimeltas that can be fired by the operator (BS4). The Land Speeder can also turbo boost granting it a +1 to jink save, however its weapons will rely on the machine spirits to fire their weapons. (BS2)
> The Angel of Light
All LA: AoL models that can draw line of sight to Alexios gain +1 combat resolution. If Alexios is removed from play, all LA: AoL must take an unmodified leadership test. If they fail, they immediately move towards the nearest board edge. If they pass, they gain Fearless, and Hatred (Everything).
> High Command
Alexios has an unrivalled vantage point of the battle field and has access to scanners and battle trackers from his location. He may roll for 3 tactical objectives instead of 1 and choose which to apply.

>>49701718
Makes me think of Fulgrim with Ferrus's hammer. Concussive combined with the +A based on difference between Initiative.

Honestly though, since Oramar can't use his pistol in CC I don't see the OPness.

>>49695745
So much of that soundtrack could suit him. Even the final boss music.

>I know what I'm doing isn't right
>or wrong
>and it might not even matter
>but imma do it anyway

>>49698748
Nusku should be in that little no man's land between the southern Chaos Marches and the Dark Imperium, where Segmentum Tempestus borders Segmentum Solar.

>>49701272
Correct. Aodhán has no interest in ousting them, and after a rocky start, it became pretty obvious that having a friendly neighborhood Space Marine Legion had benefits. The Negators are particularly well connected with a handful of Kabals/Wych Cults/Haemonculi Covens, and often Negators raids will be accompanied by piratical Eldar. As well as other sorts of mercenary groups like Kroot and Rak'Gol.

>>49694675
The Warmaster
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QP8QdFttugg

>>49701895
He can use it before charging or as overwatch, though.

>>49701936
True, but assuming he isnt charging a lone primarch it should be fine. Primarchs to my knowledge can join squads.

And if you're silly enough to be caught out in the open against such a foe, well then thats on you.

>>49701936
>>49701718
I think make it have a bad AP maybe 4?
and keep the 6 to wound = AP1

And then it is balanced regardless of concussive + mono filament.

>>49701936
You seem to be knowledgeable on Oramar. I've copied down his weapons you have provided.

What do you see his hoverboard working as, as well as Sire of the Warp Raiders, and Psychic level? Runes of Fate was going to be mostly a copy of Eldar abilities.

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>>49702088
>You seem to be knowledgeable on Oramar
I should hope so, I made him up.

>What do you see his hoverboard working as
jump infantry unit type probably

>Sire of the Warp Raiders
you can take ML1 psykers as sargeants

>psychic level
4 for sure along with Anshul.

>Runes of Fate was going to be mostly a copy of Eldar abilities.
I figure he should just literally have access to Runes of Fate powers along with maybe Divination and Telekenesis.

>>49702178
>psychic level
>4 for sure along with Anshul.
Anshul was posted with ML5
Was that wrong?

>>49702199
I wasn't aware ML5s even exist.

>>49702199
>>49702235
ML5 doesn't exist in 40K, but Anshul is our Magnus. In fact, I remember someone describing him as roughly 1.5 Magnuses in terms of power, whereas Oramar is like 1 Magnus and Xun is 0.5 Magnuses. There's no psyker statted in 40K on his tier.

Also I feel like the Harlequin psyker powers would suit Oramar. They have a teleportation power and he loves that teleportation.

>>49702351
I haven't read the harlequin rules because any time I open any eldar codex I have an overwhelming urge to buy more jetbikes and It's starting to destroy my life.

DARE didnt warn me about warhammer

>>49701498
>>49701714
>Sire of the Behemoth Guard
+IWND on all vehicles and MCs
+D3 to combat res? Stubborn?

>>49701498

>Sky Serpents
+Scout
+1 BS in 12"
+Rage? Encarmine Fury?
-Half the Army must have an AV value
-Must Consolidate towards the enemy?

>Sire of the Sky Serpents
+Some sort of melee upgrade
+Something else cool

I'm thinking the reserve roll modifiers go under Preternatural Strategist?
Is it per G-Man's rules?

>>49702351
>>49702235

ORAMAR - Mono-Whip, Hover Board, Runes of Fate
> Sire of the Warp Raiders
LA: May upgrade squad sergeants to ML1 Psykers at a cost of +25 each, which have access to divination.
> Monofilament Razor Whip
STR: User AP: 4, Other: Monofilament; uses enemy Initiative rather than Toughness to determine to wound. Does not utilise Initiative for the purpose of instant death.
>Hrud Fusil
RNG: 12" Str: X AP: 2 Pistol, Concussive, Graviton
>Prophet
ML4 Psyker with access to divination and telepathy, and runes of fate (Cra
> Runes of Fate
Whenever Oramar passes a psychic test roll a D6, on a 5+ he generates a Warp Token. In addition he may re-roll any amount of dice used to cast or deny a psychic power once per psychic phase.
>Hoverboard
He is treated as Jump Infantry, and has access to the Deep Strike and a STR6 Vector strike.

>>49702405
>Sire Behemonth Guard
IWND on vehicles is dont already by Fist of Mars, but If people aren't opposed I guess its fine.

>Sky Serpents
Scout is done by AoL but as per above, if people are cool with it doubling up isn't an issue. What about, Consolidate towards enemy and MUST sweeping advance if possible.

>Preternatual Strategy.
Was going to be based of G-Man rules but modified. Open to suggestions.

>>49702478
>LA stuff
The difference is that the AoL gets scout from Alexios' presence, while the Sky Serpents get it innate from their LA rules.
Definitely like the +Must Sweep

>Preternatural Strategist
As I understand it, the G-Man version:
+Forces other dude to reroll Seize the Initiative
+Give unit entry a special rule
+1 WS/Round of CC

I think Xun should also get something to boost reserves, like reroll failed reserves or allow turn one reserve rolls.

What were you thinking for the Flowing River/Raging Mountain rule?

>>49702478
Fluff overlap can be ok
Rules overlap though is problematic. Primarch special rules should be relatively unique and each primarch should do something different for your army.

Gengrat's inner beast jekyl/hyde nature definitely needs some translation into rules.

>>49702647
That would be inflict auto str4 hit on enemy who misses.

Preternatural strategist was going to be +1WS each round of combat, and give unit 1 of X amount of special rules. And have him once per game allow him to change his warlord trait to one of the strategy ones from the rule book.

So he sort of would have 2 warlord traits but only have access to them 1 at a time.

>>49702667
I agree they should be unique.

How about rules like
> can disable enemy vehicle weapons, on a good enough roll can commandeer them for a turn.
> can turn into hyde on 4+ every time he suffers a wound.
Hyde mode would reduce something but increase Str and Tough.
So as the battle rages on he has more and more chance of losing his shit.

>>49702753
>> can disable enemy vehicle weapons, on a good enough roll can commandeer them for a turn.
You mean like warpsmiths? Good idea.

>So as the battle rages on he has more and more chance of losing his shit.
Also a good idea.

>>49702772
Actually these give me a thought regarding fluff.

Gengrat hears the whispers of tzeentch in his head because of the technosorcerous implants he received as a child. What if he can spread those wispers pychically, but because nobody else has a decoder ring inside their brain, it manifests as invasive scrapcode in machines and maddening white noise in organisms?

So he can debuff enemy vehicles, and maybe has a bubble around him that reduces enemy Ld?

>>49702753
Why Str4?
But yeah, outside of that, I do like the strategic trait one.
Would we give him a specific initial starting WL trait? Or let him pick from the Strategic traits.
We could also move the +1 WS thing to the River and Mountain Rule and retain the Seize the Initiative/Reserve modification deal. Likely a turn one initiative deal, since I'm imagining that the Sky Serpents will have access to wargear and consuls to mess with reserve rolls.

For comparison, Alpharius gives everyone PE through his Sire of the Alpha Legion
G-Man gives +1LD

Xun, I think gives one of those CC bonuses like Dorn or Lorgar, like +N to Combat Res or something and/or Furious Charge.
He may have some force org chart manipulation, but that'll be the last thing to add.


>Gengrat Hyde Mode
Could reduce his ML/Cybertheurgy LD. We could also sap his BS.

>>49702813
YESSSSS
Like a Clavis and the aura from the Sicaran Infiltrators!

>>49703005
Try not to make Xun a better logistics mastermind warlord than the Warmaster is>>49701676
don't go overboard sempai

>>49703005
Well I figured it would be a sort of backhanded slap, trip, push kind of thing. Not a full force punch, more of letting someone swing ducking and pushing rather than just full on counter-blowing them.

>Was going to let him roll on Strategic traits, but picking works too.

>>49702813
debuff vehicles yes, not so much the LD thing thats already done by grass snek.

>>49703005
the reason i didnt want to include initiative/reserves is those are already being done by warmaster, raydon, and alexios.

giving everyone PE sort of works though. Pretty powerful though, so it'd have to replace something.

Isn't furious charge part of their LA rules? +Combat res is also being done by a few primarchs and it kind of contradicts his presense as a strategic commander. rather than a front line inspiring commander.

>>49703005
>>49703040
How about this.

XUN - Preternatural Strategy, Psychic Mastery, Flowing Water
> Sire of the Sky Serpents
LA: Gain preferred enemy (infantry)
> Psychic Mastery
Is a Psyker with Mastery Level 3. Who takes their psychic abiltiies from Biomancy, Telepathy, Divination, Fulmination, Geokinesis, Librarius, or Technomancy.
> Preternatural Strategy
Xun can choose his Warlord trait from the Strategic Traits from the main rulebook. If he does he rolls twice on the table and applies both results. (Re-roll doubles). In addition choose one of the following (Infiltrate, Tank Hunter, Counter Attack, Move THrough Cover, Adamantium Will) all LA: SS gain this special rule for as long as Xun is present on the battle field.
> Armour of the Jade Emperor
Confers a 2+ Armour Save and 5+ Invulnerable save
> Flowing Water Raging Mountain
When fighting in a challenge, on each consecutive round after the first he gains +1 WS to a maximum of 10. When an enemy with a WS that is less than his misses him in combat, he inflicts an automatic S4 AP- hit on that enemy.

Missing his weapon though.

>>49703108
>>49703040
Hmm? Oh, just throwing ideas out there.

Given that reserve modification and combat res are already being done by others, I agree with you guys.
I might bump the hit up to S5 just because he's a primarch.

So let's sort of recap:

>Flowing River, Raging Mountain
Melee stuff goes here. Hits you when you miss. Feel like there should be a part two, but that may just be because the name has two parts.

>Preternatural Strategist
This is most parallel to G-Man's stuff.
+Give unit special rules
+Choose (and change once) that warlord trait
+1 to WS each round of the combat (Potentially this goes in the previous rule and we stick something like Seize the initiative on a 4+ like Alpharius here)

>Sire of the Sky Serpents
This is some sort of single buff to the whole army and some sort of buff that Xun gives to his particular squad:
PE is pretty decent as an army-wide buff, actually.
Lots of dudes hand out things like crusader to their squad, so that's one possibility.

>ML (3?)
I've seen him variously as ML3 or 4, depending on whether Anshul is 4 or 5. I think they should all harness on a 3+ unless they're repressed or doing something like Lorgar before he gets his groove.

>Rules from Gear

This looks about right to me, based on looking at the rules for the FW primarchs.

I'm thinking the LA melee buff is either stealing the BA's Encarmine Fury or just plain Rage. Probably Rage, since I've been imagining them having decent access to chain axes and I really don't want them getting pumped to S6.
So that would be
>LA: Sky Serpents
+Scout
+Rage
+1 BS in 12" (ala Sons of Horus)
-Must always sweep and consolidate towards nearest enemy
-Half the Army must have an AV value

>>49703314
>S5 just because he's a primarch.
Keep in mind S4 is the strength of a space marine, and a primarchs full effort is S6.

The idea that he would be punching through steel with an effortless slap is pretty daunting to begin with.

>LA: SS is Rage
if thats the case, I might add furious charge to the list of army wide buffs he can throw out.

I should note, I feel with the range of psychic abilities he has access to, he is probably the single most powerful primarch as far as the rules go. Granted it comes down to lucky rolls but his sheer versatility is unmatched.

Which I think isn't bad, it sums up his jack-of-all trades feel.

>>49700405
>Age: Young (1 - 2,500 years old)
>Current Archon: Fallen Craftworlder/Exodite/Corsair Prince
>Archon Personality: Ambitious, Flamboyant
>Kabal Origin: Dark Eldar Pirates
Kabal Demeanor: Purity Above All - A particular hatred of psykers, for the attention from She Who Thirsts that they bring.
>Kabal Flaw: Eldar Arrogance
>Territory Location: Docking Spires
>Territory Condition: Mandrake-infested
>Tactics: Performance Art: Poison
>Resources: Weapon Forge
>Signature Weapon: Splinter Weapons
>Currently Not Betraying: Another kabal
>Goals: Defending the Kabal's Traditional Territory

Sounds like an interesting Archon.

>>49703294
That works too.

So far as the Psyker stuff goes, I might actually keep it narrower in return for safer casting-- he's the careful one, so likely Divination, Fulmination, Librarius, and Technomancy as his core domains. Either way, fluffwise there should be an upgrade to give him access to Sanctic Daemonology, representing him after a certain point in the heresy.

I think he should probably have a 4++, though, since Corax's 5++ is based on being sneaky and mobile and having a jump pack, while Xun is on foot.

His weapon is a nasty pair of lightning claws, Talons of the Serpent or something. Not entirely sure what they have special-rule wise. They're force or otherwise have ID, but I'm not sure if they have shred, fleshbane or what. Maybe forces rerolls of successful invulns because of warp aura or something.

>>49703344
>S4
Legit.

>+Furious Charge to the list of options
Seems like a good idea

>Psychic powers
That's a fair point. It really comes down to trying to portray the cautious side of his casting or the breadth of his knowledge.
And yeah, powers are going to mess with the balance. Just look at Lorgar. >_<

To make it absolutely clear, I really value having you to bounce ideas off of.

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Ex-brothers! How goes the war effort!

>>49702178
How about also giving him access to runes of battle or is that something for Warlocks... I mean Librarians.

>>49701839
>High Command
Do we want to give him a backup for if you're not playing a maelstrom mission?

>>49701676
>Psyker stuff
Might be good to make it so he doesn't peril on any double when using Malefic.
Similarly, I might let Anshul choose his powers. He's crazy good.