MTG Standard General

>>49651164
Is it?

>>49651170
It's crazy, just read the card man.

>>49651184
An extra card every turn is good.
But for a control deck being left with a maximum hand size of 0 is terrible because you can't hold onto any answers. And for an aggro deck it seems way too slow.

It's definitely a lot worse than Phyrexian Arena for anything outside of Standard. But this is the Standard thread and I don't really know what the current Standard is like. So is it really broken in Standard?

>>49651495
they should just reprint dank confidant
make standard great again

>>49651164
I don't get how you're supposed to use this.

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>midnight oil shilling edition

Pic related.

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hey guys i haven't played standard in forever. I'm no pro obviously but does this deck seem all right for an FnM? The idea is to get a bunch of vehicles out and maybe crew them every once and a while. but the big goal is to alpha swing with start your engines.

and yeah i know looter scooter would be better than sky skiff but I can't afford that shit.

>>49652218
side note: i'm thinking if i were to make cuts, maybe it would be the foundry inspector and vessels for some removal.

Any thoughts on my UW eldrazi deck?

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/really-bad-eldrazi-aggro/

I want to get some uses out of these guys before they're corralled to modern forever.

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>make g/r energy deck
>it blows

>>49652016
Enchant enemy, in like 3 turns he can only have one card in hand. He has to play all cards or discard then and lose 1 life per turn

>>49653299
uhhh

>>49653299
please be a joke...

I've just now decided to get into standard after exclusively playing EDH/casual for years. Suggestions?

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/miffed-trinkets/

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>>49651164
And for when you're done with it.

>>49652787
You're probably going hard aggro, I suggest a midrange approach with ulrich and arlinn kord and building up bristling hydra/electrostatic pummeler.

Also the deck is probably missing like two good energy based cards to be good, i'm speculating that it will be a good deck after next set.

>>49652218
I'm rocking skiffs instead of loot scoots too just because of being poor -- it's done ok on cockatrice, but does anybody have suggestions for better 2 drops in RW?

>>49654376
veteran motorist

I just bought a bunch of cards for grixis emerge (See zach voss' 2nd place scg open finish)

I love the shenanigans this deck can pull

>>49654407
I'm already running those as a 4-of, but thanks for the suggestion. Should have specified my existing 2-drops, sorry! My removal spells are at 2, and then 4 motorists and 4 skiffs.

>>49654303
ive thought about ulrich. thanks for the suggestion. glad im not going crazy

>>49653996
>let me give the aggro decks more cards to dump

You can't be this retarded.

>>49651164
I'm having difficulty deciding what a good creature:vehicle ratio would be for a vehicle deck, I shamelessly love the gimmick though

First I had a 20:12 ratio then though that was too many creatures so I tried 18:14 so I thought it was too many vehicles then I said fuck it and tried a 22:8 ration and now i have no idea what would work

>>49654698
pls

>>49654698
>>49654947
4 copters, 4 boats, 4 haste car, 2 of whatever else you want to splash in (optional)

That's the best case scenario

>>49655015
>4 boats

But I was told Bomat Bazaar Barge wasn't good

Was I memed on?

>>49655032
Flying boats bruh, Skyship.

Bazaar isn't that great, if you want a midrange vehicle like that get the mana fixing one.

>>49655060
Oh yeah, I know Skyship is good.

Since I'm not paying 16 dollars a pop for Copter I'll probably throw in some okay alternatives. Aradara Express isn't bad and Demolition Stomper is an alright mana cap card

>>49655084
Copter is much cheaper than that m8, prices kneejerked up.

Express is really good, especially with crew bonuses like the scry vet. Stomper is really cool and a game ender if you slap a Built to Smash on it.

>>49655084
On a different note, Toolcraft Exemplar isn't entirely necessary if you're going to be attacking primarily with vehicles, right? I wanted to save space for Gearshift Ace and Fairgrounds Warden along with Depala, Veteran Motorist, and Aerial Responder.

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>>49655222
Anon...

>>49655237
Huh, deckbox had it at $20 2 days ago and was $10 yesterday.

This card is dumb.

>>49655306
It's so high because the thing is becoming a Standard staple. People love it in Delirium now that Hangarback is gone and a lot of other people are just shoving it into their decks.

It'll go down, but slowly.

Am I the only one who thinks Noxious Gearhulk is the best of the Gearhulks?

>>49655427
Verdurous and Torrential are also pretty good

>>49655437
>Verdurous
That's the one with the most buzz, but I guess we need a few more weeks to see what goes on.

>>49655483
Well it gives you a lot of good options. You either get a 8/8 for 4 mana or you buff your other creatures. Not only that but there are more cards that give you perks for getting +1/+1 counters that it can pair with.

>>49655355
>was thinking on buying them when they were still less than $10
>meh, I'll wait for my next paycheck
>spiked in price immediately
I suppose I should've seen this coming, because a colorless card that every aggro deck wants, and delirium/madness decks want was bound to go up. Hopefully it drops if aggro becomes less prominent.

>>49655634
I was going to grab them when there were eight

I still remember when they only 40 cents

>>49652415
So after posting this deck twice and getting no responses, I have to either take it that there's nothing to improve on and it's either good or terrible.

If it's terrible, why? When I've playtested it, it curves nicely and has responses to threats and removal.

>>49652787

Are you playing with Electrostatic Pummeler? If not then there's your problem right there. That thing killed me turn 3/turn 4.

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So what are some ways one could win using a B/W control deck made out of the new set of cards? Pic related would obviously be a centerpiece but sapping them of life might take a while. Aetherflux could always be a sub win condition but what else?

>>49651164
Dear standard players,

Stop spending tons of money for garbage cards with niche playability. We get it, you like to throw your money away more than any other magic format, but smugler's copter is not worth $15. No deck will play it outside of standard, much like Liliana and Nu-Emrakul from the last set. The more you support this sort of trite dishonesty, the worse your format becomes. I get it, I really do, I'm sure limited is a blast, but when standard is balanced around limited, you wind up with 3 chase rares, and a giant pile of garbage once the format rotates. Look at Born of the Gods, they had some good cards, and every single one of them other than Brimaz and Xenagos are worthless. Same with Return to Zendikar, Shadows over Innistrad, Origins, Dragons of Tarkir, and Fate Reforged. Gatewatch doesn't look too bad because there were some left-field fringe-playable cards, but christ this format has been awful for a long time.

Please spend your money with some semblance of reason to improve magic for everyone,
Anon.

>>49655483

Verdurous is great because you when it enters the battlefield you choose the targets but you don't choose the AMOUNT of counters you want to put on those creatures yet until the ability has resolved. They have no idea if you're putting 1 or more.

>>49655894
I buy modern staples and build a shell to complement them for a standard deck.

Anyone that actually funnels that much money into standard is fucking retarded

>>49652415
i don't play standard anymoe so don't take this too seriously, but since you are insisting i thought you could use soemthng. Everythig i could say is that it looks a bit too slow,the first creature you ca play is turn 2 and it's just a mimic which needs a follow up to be effective, then you have what sem to be too many 3 drops and spells which you are looking to cast in the thrid turn if you got to play the mimic, which you really need to. I think you might use sme lowering of the curve,or some ramp.Also i would really avoid glimmer of genius which seems a bit out of place here.

>>49655894
>>49655946
The only standard I play is Pokemon, but that got fuck expensive pretty recently because of one card.

>>49655817
The only thing I see is the Mimics. Without being able to cheat it out for 0, it loses a lot of value.

I'd consider playing Selfless Spirit instead. It's 2 evasive damage per turn, and protecting your board in the mid-late game is op.

Or if you want to go a more aggro (and spicy) route, consider Eddytrail Hawk. Has a nice interaction with your Hubs and Glimmers, and it makes your Reshapers, Thought-Knots, etc, really dangerous.

>>49655946
This is totally reasonable. I'm a meme EDH player, and after getting a fuckload of new commons/uncommons from Scars of Mirrodin, it's amazing how shit this game has become. Concussive bolt was a common, but if it that shit got reprinted in a upcoming set, you bet your ass it'd be a mythic that costs $30, or some bullshit slapped onto a planeswalker. There's just nothing of substance lately, the art sucks, the flavor sucks, and the marketing is blatantly offensive to anyone who appreciates literature, art, or mtg.

>>49655894
I do agree Copter is not worth fucking 16 dollars. Hell it's not worth 8 dollars either.

People need to calm the fuck down.

>>49656060
It's like Grim Flayer. What the fuck is that shit? Why was that $20+?

It's literally Scry 3: Graveyard edition with +2/+2 when you hit nu-threshold. If you played that in modern, or even EDH, people would laugh at you.

>>49655894
I refuse. Brb, gotta go pick up my playset of Like Last Hope.

>>49656112
If people keep this up Standard is going to start rivaling Vintage in price

>>49656121
I'll buy them all off you in one calendar year for $30. I bet it's a surprisingly good deal.

>>49656112
Grim flayer is modern playable tho

>>49656138
That's OK. Price doesn't matter to me, and the fact that I enjoyed myself is what really counts.

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>>49656208

>>49656138
The problem isn't the price of the cards, the problem is that the format rotates and cards that were expensive become worthless because they aren't very good. I went balls deep in the past few sets, and if you don't sell your cards within a week after the release, chances are you're going to lose a ton of money. Look at baby jace. That card was $120 canadian dollerydoos, and now look at it. Liliana, Heretical Healer was $50 and now it's $12.

I'm not playing magic as some sort of autist's stockmarket, I just can't rationalize throwing money at someone that will be immediately worthless. I remember selling a shitload of Dramoka's Command for $10 each, feeling like I got ripped off when they spiked, but now, after I realized that right now you can buy one for $3, I'm super happy I dumped them near the set's launch.

It's just silly, and I can't believe people are dumb enough to fall for it.

>>49656197
Barely in dredge. It needs to deal combat damage to do anything at all, and a 2/2 that's sometimes a 4/4 isn't worth the cost. Kalitas is modern playable. Thought-knot seer is modern playable. Prized amalgam is modern playable. Grim flayer is a hilarious after thought.

>why does standard have costly cards!!!!!
Let me tell you guys a little something about developer support.

Wizards cares about standard by far the most, creates cards for standard without other formats in mind, it's their main focus and their main format. More players = more demand.

Street Fighter V is much worse then IV, but Capcom keeps the money in V, so everyone plays V. When VI comes out, people cough up the cash for it because that's what Capcom wants.

If a TCG could possibly have a grassroots community (not sure how that'd work) then you'd see much more reasonable prices, or better yet a nearly free game.

You guys are at the mercy of Wiz.

>>49656216
Was meant for the post below that one, but thank you for the (you)

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>>49656261

>>49656261
>this type of idiot
You missed the point, the issue isn't expensive cards, the issue is expensive cards that don't retain value, are objectively bad, and much worse than something that already exists. Why would I buy a Nu-Emerakul when I can buy a mindslaver, that is objectively better, for $5? When this set rotates out of standard, it will be right around that price point. Baby jace is just snapcaster lite, and as it's about to rotate, it reflects that.

Now look at every card released in the past few sets. If there's a better, more cost effective alternative, than it's overpriced and should not be purchased, unless you want to play standard, and that's becoming less justifiable as time goes on.

>>49656337
It doesn't need to be better than older cards IN THE FORMAT THAT WIZARDS ONLY FOCUSES ON.

Sets rotate out so you buy the new shit.

Wizards don't care about secondary market.

Blame the fucking people trying to make a living off this shit.

If you want cheaper cards, buy off ebay.

>>49656429
Oh look, an idiot who lacks the reading comprehensions to make a reasonable argument, and instead posts his "feelings" in a desperate attempt to justify his poor spending habits.

I literally don't care about the secondary market, other than as something anecdotal to justify keeping cards I'm not using but are expensive. Instead of trying to lecture me about supply-chain economics and how monopolization affects consumer goods, maybe read what I said.

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>all this drama

I just wanted to talk about cars

>>49656495
Name me one TCG that retains all value once it's out of standard.

I'll wait.

>>49656524
>>>/o/

>>49656542
I don't think they'd want to talk about car-ds there

I tried

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>>49656552
You sure know how to piss me off anon.

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>>49656560

>>49656228
Some people only are capable of playing at FNM standard. Drooping 200 on a two year deck is perfectly justifiable. Some people also like variety in what deck they play, and don't enjoy casual, so standard is the best option. All this talk about justification and price always hurts me. I just want to enjoy a hobby. I play other formats, and I just don't get why people have such a problem with others enjoying themselves the wrong way.

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>>49656574

>>49656536
Anon, this is like saying:
>"Name one automobile manufacturer that retains all it's value on all it's cars after 2 years."
or
>"Name one restaurant chain that makes a menu that everyone likes completely in it's entirety, but constantly updates its menu."

It's literally a meaningless statement characterized by arbitrary ivory tower game design. I can name lots of individual cards that will still be valuable once they rotate out of standard. I can even look at a card and tell you if it's going to be valuable once standard rotates.

The fact that you asked such a stupid question reflects poorly on your critical thinking skills.

>>49652218

Are you bad at math anon, because your deck looks like you're bad at math.

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I'm trying to make a janky ass deck with these two cards where hopefully I can draw the colossus and 2 other cards as people don't usually want to take 11+ damage.
Might try make it jeskai with a bunch of etb effects that can be taken advantage of with saheeli rai and that white eldrazi.
Will probably not even work half the time but yeah it's the kind of jank I can get behind.

>>49656597
So what you're asking for is more valuable cards that will hold price when they rotate.

Even though Wizards tunnel-vision Standard and don't care what happens after.

Even though Wizards doesn't give a shit about the secondary market.

??????

>>49656586
>look at me list a bunch of meaningless feelings without understanding the argument to justify my poor purchasing habits
The issue isn't dropping $200 on a two year deck. Whatever, spend money on what you want and have fun doing what you like. The issue is dropping $200 on a two year deck worth $50 in two years, and having to spend $200 every year, realistically, and only getting 1/4th of your value back over time. Less the longer you wait.

You could just buy $200 in nonstandard singles that will probably be worth somewhere between $150 and $250 in two years time instead of throwing your money away.

>>49656663
>Even though Wizards doesn't give a shit about the secondary market.

Reserved list

>>49656663
Yes, and? You have yet to make a point. I disagree with the people enabling their shitty marketing strategy, and you're justifying it by saying "ya but, this is their marketing strategy."

Come on anon, you need to be +18 to post here, and you can't be out of highschool.

>>49656228

>Barely in dredge.
>Grim Flayer
>Dredge
>Modern

>It needs to deal combat damage to do anything at all, and a 2/2 that's sometimes a 4/4 isn't worth the cost. Kalitas is modern playable. Thought-knot seer is modern playable. Prized amalgam is modern playable. Grim flayer is a hilarious after thought.

Mate what the hell are you talking about? I don't think you know where the card goes because he does not get played in Dredge in Modern. I don't know why the fuck you think he was even good for Dredge in the first place. Grim Flayer is being played in Jund and Junk lists because it's an extremely fast way to grow a Goyf and has Trample so cards that would normally give Jund the shits(e.g Lingering Souls) can't chump it all day.

>>49656674
But I can't play standard with those cards. Price retention is not an issue. You don't have hobbies to make money.

>>49656060

Copter is right now format warping which is why it's jumped to 16 dollars. I agree that the card shouldn't be $16 but it will drop as supply starts to creep up as more packs are opened and start to supercede demand and when people start playing answers for it maindeck. But right now the card is really damn good.

>>49656628

Since you want to be able to cast the colossus as well you should play some strongnoncreature artifacts, in this case Hedron Archive, Cultivators Caravan and the boat being the probable candidates. Panharnomicon and Tamiyos Journal both have some cute interactions as well. Otherwise you mostly need some removal to help you survive the early game, so Jeskai seems like the right colors for the deck.

>>49656724
>I spend tons of money on standard to play standard
>because if I spent money on other things I wouldn't be able to play standard
>and who cares if I piss my money away, because it's my hobby and I want to play standard
Do you have downs? I understand that standard is the only format you want to play for arbitrary reasons, but that doesn't mean standard should be expensive for no reason, particularly when if you invested year-over-year in another format, you'd be able to play modern for the same price, except you'd have cards that you can resell once you quit to recoup your losses.

>>49656112

Grim Flayer has become a modern staple at this point

>>49656628

You kinda want to play big red and go with a R/G ramp shell. Alternatively the Mardu reanimator shell works for Combustible Gearhulk reanimation shenanigans as well.

>>49656112

Grim Flayer is an efficient beater for its cost and does a very neat Sensei's Divining Top impression in Modern and is one of the best aggressive Delirium enablers in Standard and can ensure good draws. This is as close to Sensei's Divining Top as you'll get to play with in Modern.

>>49656865
surely crystal ball is closer to sensei's divining top then grim flayer is

>>49656865
That's actually a good explaination. Goyf enabling jund doesn't really justify the price, but that makes a lot of sense.

>>49656898

Grim Flayer is like a cross between goyf and sensei's top

>>49656898

You could argue that if you wanted to compare it in mechanics but in terms of the cards actual power strength plus mechanics in Modern, it's much closer to SDT in both these categories than Crystal Ball will ever be as of this current situation. Sure the card dies to removal like many creatures in Modern do but this card only needs to connect just ONCE for value and it has already improved the draws there and then.

>>49656780
Anon, I play modern. I have a deck, and have no reason to care about any other deck. Are you saying standard staples should just be cheaper? Because that isn't going to happe as long as people care about standard.

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>>49656228

Anon... Don't be this retarded.

Grim flayer is being played in Jund and Junk builds as a value creature.

>>49657050
What I'm saying is standard staples should be BETTER to justify their price, and standard players should be SMARTER and stop throwing their money away.

>>49657074

Not the same guy but in theory yes that's how it should be. However the reality is that those who go to prereleases are the only ones who can get access and supply to those cards from new sets. Two weeks on people are brewing, playing new decks, tweaking old ones, trying new ones from streams/tournaments and then start to seek those cards which drives up the prices. At the same time those people are also trying to prepare for game day and want an absolutely top notch deck.

>>49657074
If every standard staple printed at rare or mythic was capable of existing comfortably in modern, then modern starts "rotating" and that format becomes something people don't want it to be. I would like it if standard staples were cheaper to reflect their lack of capability in eternal formats, but that doesn't make sense because of the demand to play standard.

>>49654560
have you actually read the card?

>>49655887
Drana's Emissary, Campaign of Vengence, Cliffhaven Vampire, Zulaport Cutthroat, etc. will all help you stack drain effects. Zendikar had a lot for this.

Also Authority of the Consuls is amazing, obviously.

>>49657378
Have you?
Do you seriously think Midnight Oil's purpose s to donate it?
Ever heard of Grafted Skullcap?

>>49656009
>>49655965
I'll be playtesting whether eddytail hawk or selfless spirit will be better. I'm thinking the selfless to not get blown out by kozi's return.

As for the ramp, Im placing my eggs in the basket of Skyspawner, which usually enables a turn 4 smasher. I could get rid of drowner to push my curve down, but my game plan is to get to mid game with thought-knots and smashers and controlling their hand by flickering thought-knots.

Should I really cut the glimmers? They have good synergy with aether hubs and allow me to fill my hand and keep my top decks alright.
Plus, if I end up running eddytail, it will be great to keep everything flying

Just looked at the cards.
Anyone think walker deck Nissa looked playable / almost playable?

What y'all think of this
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/nahiris-pilots/

>>49655946
>I buy modern staples and build a shell to complement them for a standard deck.

Only intelligent answer in this thread and the same thing I do. Right now building a deck that uses a bunch of Fastlands and Nahiri. Nahiri is definitely still on the downswing, but it's still something.

Other deck I'm building has a bunch of dredge cards in it. If you play it right, you only "lose" a small amount of money, and I consider the lost money to go towards entertainment value.

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i'm still relatively knew to the game, and i was wondering if this card is as good as it seems?

>>49658515

It was when BFZ rotated in and you were able to ramp up and also play this with Ojutai's Command to get it out of your graveyard at end of opponent's turn.

Not entirely so sure now but if there's a ramp shell it can have some play

>>49651164

Skipped the last few sets. Kaladesh seems to have an interesting flavor and I'm considering going rg energy aggro or rw dwarf vehicles tribal midrangy. I usually play modern, pauper and edh so standard is abit alien to me. Played limited and pulled Chandra and Sahelli and ended up playing this weird controlly ur thing and went 2-2.

>>49655887

Wow that's a badass card.

>>49655894

I can't afford my hobby the post. Jesus just play pauper or casual if money is such a problem.

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>>49657074

Both of these things will never happen. Go to bed.

>>49658515

Its an okay one drop that could potentially be very useful late game. Probably best in rg ramp. I wouldn't play it but I could see why one would.

>>49655894
Liliana sees play in modern

>>49656674
>>49656674
The one thing I dont get is how MTG players value this game. It's all about the value of the cards: Never about...
>how awesome it is to crack packs
>discuss the game
>build and try new shit with the game
>look at the art and shit...

I mean fuck. I play sealed and draft the most. I get to crack packs, play against more chill players, have a lot of fun. Then I can try to build shit out of what I get for EDH and other formats. Just thinking of strat is great time value of entertainment.

Too many people just look at dollar value. Entertainment value when you are not spending the money is HUGE.

>Waaaah Standard is expensive
No you dimwits, it's expensive because you only want to buy in the new tier 1 decks. You make those prices high, you're only complaining because you got late to the value party. Too bad, faggots. Bet better on the next release.

currently playing this deck on mtgo

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/486516#online

>>49658814
>Liliana sees play in modern
Yes
But not that one

>>49659079

I agree. I love playing sealed and cracking packs. Playing with cool players, drinking beers in the parking lot of the game store between matches.

Edh and modern are fun too but at heart I'm a casual player. I'm sick of people complaining that cards cost money. Just play pauper or casual if you don't want to throw down a bunch of cash. Shit there are budget decks in every format that are competitive, it just takes a little research.

>>49657066
>implying that statement is retarded.
Goyf on a purely conceptual level is a card that is intended for graveyard decks like Dredge.

It just so happens WotC can't balance for shit and Goyf was an over-statted mess that can just be run in almost fucking anything because most decks can play it as a bare minimum of 2/3 by turn 2 with a fetchland and turn 1 hand disruption/cantrip.

>>49659501
>>49659501
For sure.

I play sealed 2-3 times a month at my LGS. It's $20. You have 35 minutes to build, each round is 45 minutes. Every match win is 1 free pack at the end. So I am spending $20 for about 3 hours of entertainment. (35+45+45+45). Plus after all that, some of the cards I get are worth money. That drops the entertainment value to cheap.

$20 for 3ish hours of fun is about $7 an hour, plus you get whatever the cards are worth financially. People forget this. It's a great value game.

Chasing is what kills it. It turns it from fun to a job that I dont get.

Shit, I got a free $50 check in the mail last week (do a lot of travel for work and built up points) so I threw that at a box. So I spent $45 of my real money on a box of Kaladesh and a 6 pack. I went home and spent over 2 hours just reading/cracking packs/thinking of fun decks...etc.

I got a Chandra and a few Gearhulks that'll be used for a decade. When you factor in all that, it's cheap entertainment. But most hardcore players wont see it that way, and they are missing out.

>>49655946
>>49658478
>playing the shitfest that is Modern
lol

>>49652218
Needs more harnessed lightning

>>49659432
LtLH sees minor play in Jund and Abzan

What's the format that feels the most flavourful

>>49659882
Modern has a deck that the win com is Ult'ing Nahiri from SoI, and grabbing Emrakul. That's pretty flavor

>>49659979
Yeah, but the problem is that the Sigarda, Thalia and 「Saint Traft 」 deck to counteract it isn't even playable in Standard.

>>49651170
try using it as a madness enabler.

this shit with alms of the vein, fiery temper and bloodhall priest is probably ok.

>move to discard
>discard alms and bh priest into exile, i lose 2
>cast alms, drain 3
>cast priest, etb trigger, you take 2

i'd play it as a 2-of in an RBX shell

>>49652038
Looter scooter is mai waifu.

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>>49660030
>and 「Saint Traft 」
At least we have 「Haunted Dead」 viable in standard.
I'm going to get all of mine with altered art to have them doing some sweet poses and the "MENACING" sound effect.

>>49660103
I would say that Invocation is better than Haunted dead, but only because it's cheaper to cast? Then again I'm shit at this game, apparently.

>>49657472
Midnight Oil is clearly designed to be donated, or else it wouldn't be limited to drawing 3 additional cards.

Use it for 3 turns, then give it away.

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>>49660155
Haunted Dead is good because it lets you discard cards, triggers Prized Amalgams to return from your yard and is also a good target to emerge creatures off since it's 4CMC.

You rarely actually cast Haunted Dead for 4 mana, you play it for 2 from your graveyard.

>>49660165
t. idiot
You still draw an extra card even with no counters on it. When you get to 1 counter you remove as many as possible since you can't remove exactly two and when you have 0 counters you just remove "as many as possible" and still draw.

>>49652038
this thing should be banned

>>49660155
Also I should add, Invocation is a bad card because it's an Aura. If the creature you enchanted dies you lose the Aura too, so they 2-for-1 you.

>>49657212
You can literally make sets out of high-powered reprints of cards for use in standard and be okay on overall modern powerlevel. Just don't make the rest of the set ass in comparison, like Threos.

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thinking of playing this to clear early creature drops while i durdle for colossus. should i go with black's card draw instead?

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Can someone tell me where this card came form and why i have never seen it before?

So ive been out of standard since RTR and im trying to get back into standard. I was thinking about a RUG aetherworks deck that also included the infinite thopter combo but it seems janky. I dont feel like buying meme copters even though i already have one. Budget is about 200 dollars. Any suggestions?

>>49660609
Ita in the intro planeswalker decks

>>49660524
i dont understand the point of this card, 5 mana for 2 damage and you dont even get to keep it

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>>49651164
I feel like Midnight Oil could look and feel better if it wasn't so expensive.

X(B)(B)

Midnight Oil comes into play with X counters on it.

Your maximum handsize is X. At the beginning of your drawstep, draw an additional card.

Whenever you discard a card, lose 1 life

>>49660609
Nissa is such an insufferable character

>>49659882
Magic is good in that all the formats generally have plenty of gimmick potential.

Standard will obviously be the flavor of the month.

Legacy / EDH / Commander; Objectively, considering its almost whatever you want, Legacy / Commander tends to have the most flava. If you're playing Kitchen magic EDH is worth considering for the fun factor

That said I see the best theme and gimmick decks come out of modern, I dont know if its because the competitive meta is more relaxed or because the restrictions make it a little easier to not get stomped by high efficiency decks

Are there any decks that can realistically make use of Animation, Decoction, and Fabrication Modules all at the same time?

I've been fucking with some kind of RG Mirrorwing/Energy deck and can't goldfish a win before T7, which probably means I'm going to get fucked up the ass at FNM. I have a feeling half the crowd are going to be running WR Vehicles.

My other thought was UR energy with a focus on prowess, cheap casts, and dynavolt towers.

>>49660942
>>49660942
>dynavolt tower
7 energy for 3 damage to creature or player
>aetherworks marvel
6 mana for anything for free, including ulamog

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What cards could i use to make a Deck based around buffing and Debuffing my friends to make them fight each other and not me cause i supply them power?

>>49660975
It's five energy, but I know what you mean.

I was also thinking of a deck based on Metallurgic Summoning.

What are some unique builds / color combos now? I'm sick of G/W, and I've played a lot of R/W in zendikar.

>>49661029
You are looking for an edh thread buddy

>>49658668
>I can't afford my hobby: the post
Please go buy a Vintage deck if you want to pull out shit about not having money, anon.

>>49656601
I am, but I'm not sure what I did wrong?

What are the chances of a card in Aether Revolt that will be: "Destroy target vehicle and all crewed creatures"?

>>49655894
is it timmy netdeckers that are the problem, though? what about the specfags buying out modern cards that no one plays?

>>49653299

>what is harmless offering

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>>49655894

> Got a huge list of full playsets from Kaladesh and Eldritch Moon
> It costs less than a playset of Smuggler's Copter

That's just wrong.

What blue counter spell would be best to sideboard in my U/B zombie deck? I'm leaning towards Revolutionary Rebuff since on the curve it will block whatever my Grasp of Darkness' and mid-game Dark Salvations might miss, but it not hitting artifact creatures like Gearhulks seems like a big downside with Verdurous becoming more widely used. Should I just accept the 2U cost of Spell Shrivel instead?

>>49661434
None because that's not how crew works.
It would be like printing a card that says "destroy all lands that were tapped for mana to cast target spell"
or
"destroy all creatures tapped to cast target spell with convoke"

Not literally, but in the sense of having to keep track and keep in mind what you use to pay for abilities or cast spells. Dumb from a design standpoint when you want to make everything new player friendly.

>>49661440
The issue is timmy netdeckers. Speculative investment fags can do whatever they want, and it's generally a hit-or-miss strategy, outside of a few obvious homeruns but, when those stupid timmy netdeckers go out and "buy" a t1 standard deck, or force crack packs to make one, they're encouraging wizards to print garbage. Specfags would love it if every card could be modern playable, that way they can diversify their investment, and a large quantity of generally playable cards means relatively little price fluctuation. Timmyfags, on the other hand, literally wouldn't notice a diference. They'd still buy and build anything they want, and that's where the problem is. The more these idiots support substandard product and excuse "limited playability" the worse WotC can make it's product, knowing full well people will still buy it.

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>>49655634
I got them at $6 a pop last Friday. How could you not expect it to shoot up when it's pretty much Baby Jace with a 3/3 flyer attached?

>>49661645
>investment

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>>49661723
>in vest, mint

>>49655237
>>49655355

B-b-b-but Masterpieces will keep Standard prices down, they said!

Actually, I heard Standard attendance took a huge hit during BfZ and then again in SoI, do we have data yet about what attendance has done during Kaledesh? Did it bounce back up or is Standard doomed to keep shedding people as sets rotate out faster and faster?

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>>49661723
Something about MtG just makes people think they're fucking playing the stock market. It's pretty odd. I would love to see Wizards drop the reserve list nonsense just as a huge fuck you to the large number of people that only see the game as a (shitty) way of making money.

>>49662334
$15 for a card isn't exactly expensive when it comes to this game.

>>49661691
>Sold out day one at LCS
>About 5 people were brewing some version of R/W from dwarves to equipment
>I was brewing RW humans
>Forgot to order online that entire weekend
Procrastination is a real problem

>>49662378
At this point the Reserved List makes no difference. Wizards have outright said that they wouldn't reprint the expensive cards on it regardless.

>>49662378
No.

If you bought a jet-ski that was very expensive, designed for a new rider with those limitations in mind, and had horrible resale value, people would say you're an idiot.

The same could be said about a bbq. If you bought some single-layer aluminum 60k btu monster from wal-mart for $250, you're an idiot.

It would be like buying a brand new ps4 that isn't backwards compatible and is used exclusively to play app-based videogames.

You're justifying an inferior product by virtue of it's "newness".

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>>49662334
BfZ was a format where most of the top decks were some 4 color valuewinslol deck, and SoI/EmN was Dude Bant Company Lmao. Wizards really needs to get the balance under control, because if this format ends up as RW kills everything I am taking a break.
>Mfw there were actual decks called Jeskai Black, and Mardu Blue

>>49662378
>all people who own reserve list cards are hoarding them for value
you are fucking stupid anon

>>49662666
It's a fucking card game, not an investment.

>>49662713
It's both.

>>49662666
These are shitty analogies because there is no jet ski club that requires that kind of jet ski, and no BBQ club that requires that kind of grill.

>>49662713
not that anon, but if you want to play a card game where your cards are worthless as soon as you buy them then play yugioh or pokemon

>>49662713
Everything is an investment you putz. You compromise on quality to save money, and spend more money for better value. Regardless of proficency in your hobby, the products that are the best value generally are the most worthwhile. If you're painting, using garbage materials creates further garbage. If you were cooking, expensive slapchops and infomercial nonsense may be better than dollar store cutlery, but it isn't a smart investment for your hobby. Same goes for literally everything, except magic apparently "because it's a card game".

>>49662730
Yes there are? Stand up vs. Seated jet skis. Charcoal vs. Propane vs. Natural gas.

>>49662676
>not running the superior Abzan Blue or Temur White

>>49662779
>Yes there are?
And none of the people in those clubs get mad when their model of jetski is readily available for other people to buy a copy of for a reasonable jet-ski price.

>>49662779
Those are more like categories. There's not really widespread local jet ski tournaments facilitated for that specific kind of jet ski.

>>49662804
Well duh, but they'd be mad if they weren't allowed to use their old jetski in certain areas because of some nature bullshit and had to buy a new, shittier one every two years just to ride where they live.

>>49662837
I don't see what rotating formats has to do with people treating a fucking card game like Investment Banking.
It's a fucking hobby, it's inherrently a money sink.

>>49662987
Other people using it as a money sink is the reason you can make money off of it. I.e. why it works as an investment.

>>49663045
It's only such a big money sink BECAUSE of investment fags.
You're unironically cancer.

>>49652218
If you buy like 20 looter scooters how you can sell them in a few weeks for twice as much and keep a playset

>Not playing the magic the gathering stock trading game come on bro.

>>49656228
I just play Pauper now almost exclusively.

>Cheap entry cost
>Robust and interesting metagame that includes the old school triad of combo>aggro>control and isn't play midrange.dec or go home.
>Actual control decks are viable
>Daze, Counter Spell and Lightning bolt

I've considered modern or even legacy. Massive initial cost but your deck is unlikely to just stop existing in a couple of months beyond some extraordinary banning/hate card.

Standard is a joke to play seriously.

>>49663204
That's simply not true. Ever since after original Innistrad Wizards have been printing sets through the roof, making them terrible investments, and Standard has still been expensive as hell.

As much as I thought Fateful Showdown was a good card it's simply too expensive for what it does

>>49659656

That statement is retarded, and let me explain why: Dredge doesn't want to cast things from its hand. You cast shit from the graveyard for free or near to free. A card that can't be played from a graveyard is mostly a dead card for dredge player (enablers like neonate/reunion are exception here tho). In other words - you can't cast goyf from the graveyard, so outside of rare occurrence of it being in your starting hand, it's a completely dead card that doesn't enable you. You don't want it, it just eats your slots.

Goyf is just yet another Lhurgoyf ie. a dumb creature type meant for long casual games. Accidentally they made him good enough for midrange strategies .

>>49661341

http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/magic-math-kaladesh-smugglers-copter-glint-nest-crane-and-inventors-apprentice/

Read the article anon.

>>49664011
Yeah it's nothing to do with people buying stuff up to invest.

It's simply supply and demand. Magic is massively popular more so than ever it seems. Everybody wants to have the next hot shit thing and be the best magic player ever.

You have the huge amount of hype with spoilers that gets everybody circulating speculative shit and trying to remain ahead of the curve. So people shell out hundreds for speculative playsets of cards so they can be the next Jon or Kai.

Of course the sad reality is the vast majority of these players are wasting their money , time and effort as they will never succeed since the game is rigged. The Pro teams are the ones who sit down and break the format and if youre not playing and testing with them you don't really have a chance beyond getting lucky.

Even Jon Funnel recently went to a tournament and scrubbed out because that's how tough the competition is and how powerful and swingy the cards are making skill less relevant

The dream is dead magic players. Go play hearthstone or get some fresh air and enjoy your short lives.

>>49661594

Mostly just Negate's additionally you can use Ceremonious Rejection. The only thing you need to counter are planeswalkers, flaying tendrils, kalitas and artifacts or other permanents you can't answer with creature removal.

>>49656046
>Implying Lupine Prototype wasn't the most flavorful thing ever

why isnt gearseeker serpent or metalwork colossus generating more hype? are we so jaded? Is it just overshadowed by Emrakul? I mean, Affinity, dudes.

We won't know what's good until the 15th because we won't know what the meta is until then. Right now it's all aggro and decks that work in a vacuum because the meta is a vacuum. When the pros take these known quantities and showcase what answers there are, then you'll have a fully functioning metagame that you can try to build your pet decks in.

As it stands, you don't know what people will be playing next week, so all your FNM tier pet decks that you're creating are building for this weird aggro - aggro - aggro control metagame that will cease to exist when players move to the winning decks from the PT. Just wait - you'll be able to get FNM level results by building to your shop's meta, but you'll need to know what they're playing first.

>>49665677
No useful ETBs or on Casts, shitty evasion, and dies to removal, expensive ( I have a deck that can regularly shit out 3-5 artifacts and gearseeker would still be too expensive for what it does ) Maybe if the "can't be blocked" effect was cheaper or nonexistant. Of course, that would never happen on a common. Maybe if it was a mythic it could actually have been good.

>>49655887
>Pic related would obviously be a centerpiece
>B/W control deck

lmao

planeswalkers + fumigate + spot removal, maybe kalitas and maybe avacyn

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>chandra gets a $50 pricetag because everyone thinks she's the next Jace
>Superfriends has gotten so much support lately
>Smug Copter comes out and suddenly plansewalkers are a lot worse

I know 32 of 32 Smug Copters in the top 8 of SCG Open is pretty bad, but if it makes planeswalkers unplayable in standard then I'm all for it

>>49666022
oh and maaaaybe the black or white gearhulks in some small quantity, but they're further down the list than kalitas and avacyn, at least for now

>>49666025

Was there anything other than aggro decks in Standard...?

>>49666198
Well there was a Grixis Emerge deck that got 2nd place that looks really cool, sort of a mix of a standard Emerge deck with a Prized Amalgam combo mix in it. I'm definitely playing that deck on Game Day

>>49666025
Any large tournament in the first week after rotation is always going to be aggressive decks. Adding to that that the SCG circuit is far less rigorous than the PT circuit and it's almost not even a point to make.

The only takeaways from that Open was that RW and GW are the aggro decks, that X-for-1s are powerful because their best single creature requires another creature and their best card advantage actually isn't even real card advantage. Green gearhulk was good and just makes even more of an argument for strong mass removal. Stasis Snare is great with Dromoka's Command having rotated out.

Come the PT, you'll see a control deck with Fumigate and Stasis Snare well represented in at least the top 16. Avacyn will make a comeback because she's a flash beater with a boardwipe stapled on for minimal effort, who also makes you win the declare blockers step for a turn guaranteed and flashes in to kill Copter and Fastcar, plus can save you from Skysovereign with indestructible. You'll see half as many Copters in the top 8. Some aggro will go larger with Tamiyo, Field Researcher (already happening online) so if that's something you're interested in, buy them now since they're only 11.50 each. There won't be a single Metalwork Colossus in the top 16 since decks will be interacting far more and UB Colossus type decks rely on a lack of interaction to even get off the ground.

>>49666298
>avacyn will make a comeback
Awww yeah, knew sitting on my prerelease promo was a good idea.

>people thought authority of the consuls was bad
One mana. Enchantment.
Fuck haste, fuck late game desperate blockers, fuck flickers, fuck aggro, fuck infinite creature combo etc.
Oh and it stacks.

>>49666405
Also beats Goryo's Vengeance, Through the Breach and Sneak Attack

>>49666405
It's bad in limited...

It's quite obviously a good sideboard card. Can't imagine main decking it though it still doesn't do enough to impact the board against any random deck.

>>49651164
How many seven-hour counters am I supposed to put on this card?

Where do the two-hour counters even come from?

:S

>>49667204

Nice-meme

>>49655894

Fucking truth, holy shit there's WAYYY too much draft chaffe in these sets.

I don't understand how people are okay with buying packs and having only 1-2% of them being playable in constructed

>>49667256
>I don't understand how people are okay with buying packs and having only 1-2% of them being playable in constructed

I don't buy packs, I draft. That's what you should be doing.

>>49667256

Well there's some mad double think going on.

In theory a format where most of the cards are chaffe outside of the format is great as it means it's a cheap format to play in.

But cards in standard end up costing more overall than a modern or legacy deck if you factor in that the value tanks during rotation so you have to keep buying in .

So it's like double the shit all pushed by internet hype and this lie that Wizards have been selling since those pro player cards that you can quit your day job and play magic the gathering for a living as long as you keep spending thousands on cards.

>>49662733
>pokemon
http://www.trollandtoad.com/p1070821.html

>>49667307
Ah Jesus what did they do to the sweet old artwork ahhhh abomination

>>49667269
You're the cancer killing the game for constructed players

>>49667307

>shaymin-ex

Fuck that card.

>>49667336
Good

Draft master race

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>>49667325
The artwork is still cool, and there's a throwback set coming at the end of the month with a ton of original artwork but updated power for the format. All original Pokemon cards power-wise are trash compared to now.

>>49667338
So fucking dumb. I'm surprised there's no word of a tin for this Pokemon. Shit is pushing the $100s and even on the online client will cost you 50 boosters of the latest set or 35~ of the set that it came from.

The fact that this NEEDS to be in every deck is retarded.

>>49667392
I will NEVER understand drafter's logic

>Oh cool, Pay 15 dollars to draft! Nice!
>Cool, I did well and won some packs!
>Let's open them up... oh just more draft stuff that's only good in draft
>...
>D-d-draft is the most fun format

While that last point may be true, your mere existence drags the card quality down for everyone else.

>>49667336
Why?

In theory starters opening packs increases supply which makes the cards cheaper to buy for standard players.

Here's a test though for everybody whining about how much the cards cost.

The next time you open a looter scooter or other top standard rare or mythic. Give it away for free or sell it for $1. Show how much you don't care about standard pricing.

Post yfw copter drops to $5 because people at a PT know how to play and build decks outside of aggro

>>49667528
That's a bad analogy. No one who is committed to playing is going to trade away a good chunk of change for nothing.

If someone were to sell out of magic, it's a good comparison, but not for someone that is actively in the scene still.

People are bitching because they'd rather not pay $5+ per card for a rotating format

>>49667491

What if you enjoy drafting more than constructed ?

I know that's the case for me. I feel limited is much more of a truly level playing field as everybody has access to similar resources and it's far more skill intensive as you have to eke as much as possible out of your limited resources and can't just play 4x of every busted card. ( Granted mythics and in particular Planeswalkers have fucked that up a bit recently but such is magic )

Even in an abstract world where everyone had access to any card they wanted for free I wouldn't find constructed that interesting as the pros and hive mind break the format moments after release and then it's just a case of how well can you practice netdecks fighting netdecks and how lucky can you get in terms of rock paper scissors matchups when you go to the tournament which is boring as fuck for me.

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this turtle

fucking great!

>>49667528

Because you are supporting current ratio of draft chaffe to playable cards.

If people boycotted the set because the card quality was too low, Wizards of the Coast would have to change the ratio to something more reasonable, like 20 or 25% rather than 2%.

Also

>The next time you open a looter scooter or other top standard rare or mythic. Give it away for free or sell it for $1. Show how much you don't care about standard pricing.

WHO WOULD DO THAT?

We DO care about standard pricing because the card values are spread across 4-5 cards of the set, that's why looter scooter is so much right now, because OTHER CARDS are shit

If the card quality was better, other cards would also be coveted, and the supply of good card would increase, increasing the demand for packs, and thus DECREASING the value of looter scooter because the estimated value of the set is spread across more cards.

>draft is 15 CAD at my lgs
>first is 15 store credit
>second is 5
>store credit for your good cards

mfw I'm going infinite through wins and lucky packs

>>49667568
Then sell the card for $1. Persuade all your friends to do the same. Persuade your playgroup. Persuade your FLGS to do the same. Persuade all the players in your town. Persuade all the players in your state. Persuade all the players in your country. Persuade all the players in the world.

Bam cheap cards.

Operation. $1 Scooter

Good luck.

>>49667605

It's times like this I really feel the gambling addiction aspect of MtG. This post screams to me "I can just keep playing blackjack with my winnings as long as I always win!"

>>49667629

I like how you don't even acknowledge the arguments made against you and instead just continue to repeat your "solution" that doesn't make any logical sense or address the concerns being raised.

You'd have a stellar future in politics.

>>49667589

I'm not saying Draft can't exist, I'm saying that there are currently too many "limited bombs" that suck elsewhere.

We need to achieve a proper balance, we need more cards that are "limited bombs" that are also reasonable in a constructed deck.

I have a hard time telling new players after we draft that the cards they drafted are mostly useless, and that only 1 or 2 of them are playable

You should see the look of confusion on thier faces

>"You mean to tell me out of ALLLLLL these cards, only THIS one is any good?"

>"Yes."

>"Well fuck this game what's the point of paying for this shit"

>"for the draft environment"

>"..."

>>49667629
>This somehow happens
>Star of David Games buys up all the copies
>Still 15-20 dollar card

WAY TO GO SCHLOMO

>>49667491
>play draft, the most played competitive format aside from standard
>win consistently due to good card and archetype evaluation
>opt for store credit instead of plebepacks
>acquire mass PW points for byes while also single handedly finance standard with my store credit and the cards I open
>destroy PPTQs full of noncompetitive "guess I'll draft today" players, get even more free byes, PW points and store credit

Y-yeah, wh-why play draft guys haha...

>>49667491

Gee, did you ever consider that maybe, just maybe, people have FUN playing?

I know it's hard for fuckheads like you that only ever care about somethings value to realize that I some of us don't mind spending money on things we enjoy

Everyone in this thread is tryingiving to compare it to investments when it's better to compare it to entertainment mediums, like other fucking games, do you play vidya, have you ever spent 60$ on a game? Because it'll be worth 5$ if you try to sell it back

What are
>movies
>books
>music
>board games

Hell, a lot of them you can't even sell back if they're digital, you greedy autisitic fucks are what make this game suck

p.s. most stores let drafters bank their pack winnings as store value, so if you win you can usually play more drafts for cheap or even free, so basically if you're good enough you can just start getting free cards

>>49667629
You're dumb as fuck.
People HAVE tried stuff like that
Guess what happens?
>cunts buy out all the underpriced stuff then sell it at it's standard price elsewhere

>>49667657
Maybe to shitters like you. Good players are going to consistently place in the top 10% of their shop's events so it IS going infinite.

But please, feel free to disagree, too many cooks spoil the broth and I doubt you're good enough to be a cook in this analogy anyways.

>>49667684

Well yeah for the fun of it ? Why else play?

For the price of a movie ticket I can get 3 hours or so of entertainment once a week. If I happen to do well or get lucky I can recoup some of that as well.

15 a week for an adult is really nothing . People spend more on coffee in a week.

>>49667629

This is 100% bait nobody is this unaware of how an economy of goods works

>>49667777
>ECONOMY OF A FUCKING CARD GAME
HELLO?

>>49667764

I don't understand people like this, if they don't enjoy the game why do they play, it's not like they're going to go pro

>>49667784
GP Richmond moved more than $3mil in cards between players and vendors, armored cars had to drive in more money for the vendors to work with on day 2, there were 5400 players in the main event alone and it was Legacy where the average cost of a deck is ~$1500

Are you retarded or merely pretending?

>>49667796
Hell, most pros love the game and love the new set, look at Brad Nelson, hes crazy about the new cards

Hangarback cost about as much as Smuggler's Copter at its peak in price. It also made Silk Wrap and Shock cost something like $3.00

I've always sat back and listened to people talk about how this game is treated like a stock market. I don't think that's how it really works.

Online stores see their stock go down so they up the price. Then, once players sell them the cards they come back into stock and if they stop selling they'll lower the price, which drives players to buy.

I don't think there are actually players sitting on hundreds of copies of a card and waiting to dump it on a market. And even if there were, I don't think it would affect supply at the local level.

I think the real supply choke at the local level is players simply not sorting their shit. The store may sell hundreds of boxes, but only a fraction of those players actually sort their product for trade. Every time I hear someone say, "Look what I found hidden away" tells me they are just unorganized people who can't remember shit and probably are the sort of person who throws the messy collection at the store and expects some payout.

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>>49667763

>>49667818
>your post
How in god's name do you know that? You got a source for all that?

I want to believe you.

What the fuck is wrong with people. That's an average of about $500 spent per player.

God, I know it's true. I go to my store sometimes and someone tells me they just spent a couple hundred dollars on a massive pile of Unhinged basics. BASICS.

These people can't pay to go out for a slice of pizza after FNM but they can pay for pimp.

At first I paid for cards because I was "buying in" to a social experience. It seems like people would rather play stock market than actually get good at the game.

>>49667832

That's the secret. You actually have to care and be passionate about the game in the first place to be a 'pro' at it. You can't do it as some pride thing or expect to make a living out of it because in reality you will not and will just end up miserable.

Sadly that's the case for the majority of ptq grinders and fnm warriors.

I saw a guy from my local club recently . This was a guy who would cheat new players out of expensive rates by trading them chaffe. I remember We had some fun Christmas draft at my local flgs where somebody had donated 1 of each onslaught fetch back when they were worth more . He seriously raged at me when I beat him with some dumb deeply dragon cards because he was so fixated on winning those fetches against the other players he viewed as casual scum.

I saw him on the train a few years later. He was scribbling down some deck list on a notepad all sad and frantically. I chatted to him and he gloated about winning a few thousand at a gp. As if that covered the massive amount of time and money he had out into the game.

It's really no different to seeing any other sad gambler waste their life chasing a dream they can never, ever achieve.

>>49667844

>I don't think there are actually players sitting on hundreds of copies of a card and waiting to dump it on a market.

Players not so much, but speculation of this kind is rampant among vendors who can hoard hundreds and hundreds of copies and then make them available once the price nears it's peak.

>>49667932
Just google around. GP Richmond 2014. I mistyped though, GP Richmond was a Modern event. I think it was MTGStocks that did the writeup on the money that came in and out of the event. QuietSpeculation talked about it a lot as well. It's important to note that the values came from SCG and a few other vendor's reports, not everyone gave up their numbers, so there was actual more money that moved that weekend.

I remember seeing the armored cars at the venue, it was ridiculous.

It was a blast though, largest GP ever.

So I bought a box and got a foil Liliana, then I bought another box and got a foil Emrakul... Should I buy another eldritch moon box or a kaladesh one?

My LGS doesn't do a trade night and I don't think strangers would like me asking them about trades since I'm new.

Is there a place to organize standard card trades online? Where is the best place to not get jew'd?

>>49668029

>I don't think strangers would like me asking them about trades since I'm new.

wat

>>49667996
Fuck it, I'm not looking for it. I just see tournament results.

I'll take your word at it. It's not like it's going to lower my opinion of the financial environment of the game. It's already at rock bottom.

I used to pay to play at the highest level. I don't bother anymore.

>>49668029
Not really, I'd really recommend just going to FNM or whatever and ask for trades. Players love to trade between rounds. Never be afraid to look up the prices of cards, and if you have an idea of what larger value cards you want to trade, look them up before you go to your LGS so you don't have to do twice the work. Remember that selling cards to a store you'll usually get ~50% the value more or less depending so if a trade is short on your side by ~5% that can be reasonable a lot of the time.

>>49667730

Gee, did you ever consider that maybe, just maybe, people have FUN playing constructed?

I know it's hard for fuckheads like you that only ever care about drafting to realize that some of us mind seeing very few cards good enough for a 60 card constructed deck every set

>>49668069
thanks, yeah I'm not so concerned about getting full value, just want to make use of the rares I'm not using

>>49668063
I sold out of Legacy, I really enjoyed the format but when Underground Seas hit ~$350 and that was what Mishra's Workshop cost, and then WotC and SCG both dropped a large amount of their support for the format (WotC totally), I sold my Legacy stock and started playing Modern exclusively. I don't like the format as much but my cost/event is like buyin + $50 instead of buyin + $500

>>49668072
Yeah but you just buy singles anyway so it doesn't matter

...right? You wouldn't make the mistake of buying sealed product as a purely constructed player, right?

>>49667711

You're a minority, and if everyone was as good as you, you'd have a 50-50 success rate and you'd no longer have your free drafts.

>>49668112
I do buy singles, and I want to buy more singles, but only 1-2% of them are viable.

A lot of you guys are missing the point, it's not the price that bothers me as much, but rather that scarcity of good constructed playable cards each set. I don't like the idea of so many cards just being tossed out and never used.

It's a waste of paper.

>>49668097
Jesus, I didn't know Legacy was at that point.

I don't need the money; I haven't sold anything. I'm hateful enough that I don't want my cards going back into the supply. Any time I got cards I didn't want I just gave them away.

I wish more people just gave cards away instead of wasting so much fucking time scrounging for a couple dollars in "value".

One day I figure I'll befriend someone who is passionate about Magic. And I'll just give them my stuff.

I wish I could give it to someone I've met while playing Magic. But I am no longer prone to being generous with those people.

>>49655634
I pulled two of them and i dont play standard

>>49668215
This. While I can understand a lot of people wouldn't give cards away when they're truly worth something, the only time I'll trade a card for cash value is when it's at the LGS and I want in to an event or something.

The only format I play consistently anymore is EDH though, so maybe I'm just a filthy casual who is okay with loose trade value and giving away cards once I have a couple copies or just don't need them.

I don't bitch too much about "muh prices" in MTG because it's a hobby, but I do wish things were a little cheaper.

>>49667395

>you 50 boosters of the latest set

What the fuck? I remember when shamin-ex was like 15 boosters at the most.

Going all the way back to the OP post >>49651164
I haven't played since 1996. This card seems terrible to me. Like I'm not sure I'd play it even if it cost nothing. Even if it was a cantrip. Not at all.

Has the game changed so that this is a good card?

>>49668762
kill yourself
>MUH BANDING

>>49668762

>guys i don know why you think drawing an extra card every turn is good

No please tell us more about your poor card evaluation skills.

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http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/cult-of-sigarda-gw-humans/

I feel like I'm circling with a pool of cards I feel would work if pushed up against each other, but am unsure what to cut, with no idea of how to build a sideboard.

I wish I was able to play this thing more often instead of wracking my brain thinking about it more than actually piloting it.

Still, I really like playing the deck, even if the original feel might not really exist much anymore.

>>49668762
It's situation-ally good, something you build a deck around instead of just jamming in like Phyrexian Arena.

You put it in a deck with low-cmc cards so you can cast the 2 cards you'll be drawing each turn once it runs out of counters. The discard even lets you pay Madness costs.

>>49668072

But youre just wrong, this set has so many good cards that pros are brewing a shit ton of decks, the reason that there were so manyou aggro decks at the sc event was because aggro is much safer to play in a new meta

>>49666025

Planeswalkers are still playable in Standard as long as they can kill something on the board and the player doesn't die next turn.

The jund build hasn't lost yet

3x Blooming Marsh
3x Blossoming Defense
2x Cinder Glade
4x Foreboding Ruins
7x Forest
2x Ghirapur Orrery
3x Grasp of Darkness
4x Grim Flayer
2x Hissing Quagmire
2x Nissa, Vital Force
3x Smuggler's Copter
3x Start Your Engines
6x Swamp
4x Sylvan Advocate
4x Syndicate Trafficker
4x Tireless Tracker
4x Weaponcraft Enthusiast

Goddammit I don't know what to play.

I tried doing a temur deck with energy, but it sucked dick. It just isn't fast enought so slow down aggro, nor is it topheavy enough for midrange.

FUCK

>buy two packs from my flgs
>cracked a wolf from devil's breach and nahiri's wrath
>my friend cracks a copter
Well fuck, that's disappointing.

>>49668131
Only 30 to 40 cards out (not counting land) of set will see strong constructed play.

Hear me out. A given deck has about 36 mainland cards, maybe less. Most in 4 of, with some less. Round to 3 and that's 12 unique cards. Add in 8 for sideboard and to give bit more generous. So 20.

That means a standard with 10 completely unique deck types (no cards shared) or it's equivalent will use 200 cards.
That's 40 cards for 5 sets.

Most cards are not going to see standard play. Most rates won't see standard play. Trying to design a set thinking they will is a mistake.

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Was looking at the R/W Vehicles list

How essential ate the Selfless Spirits, Skysovereigns, and Gideons?

I don't think that I have the cash to drop on Gideons right now, but would it be possible to run a good build without these cards?

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Anyone else been working on GR energy? What are the midrange lists looking like? How's hydra been performing? I can't tell if it's too slow for the deck or what the deck needs to survive boardwipes. Arlinn Kord and Nissa worth investments for the deck while they are cheap?
>>49667395
>>49668673
Friend has been pushing for me to jump into pokemon since the LGS I go to has a huge scene for it there. Probably rivals the MTG scene pretty evenly too. Is Shaymin really that crucial? Are decks really that much slower without it?

>>49671913
Hydra seems to underperform against aggro

>>49672387
Bummer. I really like the card but it has a bunch of shit going against it. Hoping it will perform better with whatever we get in Aether Revolt.

If we don't get energy cards in Aether Revolt I'm just going to quit everything besides Draft and EDH altogether.

>>49671913

> Is Shaymin really that crucial?

It makes night march broken. Also it makes any competitive deck MUCH better.

>>49671520

Selfless Spirit lets you blank any boardwipes. It's important if you can expect wrath like effects in your meta. Skysovereign is a wincon for your deck, and a huge one. Gideon is good but the deck can live without it.

When did shock become too powerful for standard?

>>49672812
When the format became fast and 3/2s are everywhere.

No, I don't understand why they didn't reprint shock.

>>49656628
I wanted to make a deck using these 2 and the white artifact reanimator spell, fueled by cathartic reunion.

It seems like it could be fun but I don't know how it would stand up to smugglers copter aggro which seems to be 90% of the decks.

>>49672812
>>49672855
It's not, and unless someone can show me a post from wotc saying they think it is I'm going to say wotc does think so either.
It's just not a card or effect they want in standard all the time. There is a difference between "anymore" and"always".

They have harness lightning and twin bolt this set, and third reliable burn in red would have been a bit much, so instead there is the cycler/burn spell for R.

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>>49668215
If I have something of 'value' I'll typically hold it to trade for some stuff I want to play, IE I got two LTLH in a handful of packs, got basically an entire werewolf deck in trade.
And yeah, werewolves. I was in the negative by quite a bit on that trade and the dude seemed confused, but I basically didn't care.
I enjoy playing, even if I do suck ass right now and misplay from T1, but god damn have I noticed people are absolutely wrapped up in the economy of the game.
I've seen people argue over being like two dollars unbalanced in a trade, right after they dumped $5-10 on fastfood. I just don't understand.
Then again I've burned thousands on other hobbies without blinking an eye, so maybe I just don't care about spending money on fun

>>49671913
Arlinn Kord will never have a home in any deck. If you could use her -1 from the get-go she'd be solid, but her +1 is so ho-hum when she costs four and her wolf token ability leaves her vulnerable to three damage removal at sorcery speed.

>>49668215
When I came back, I sold a ton of cards that had value.

I didn't get uppity about a few bucks, and often times I would take the short end of a deal just because.

What would really chap my ass is when people would talk me down to a price, then try to haggle it down more. OR, when I had a NM set of polluted deltas from Onslaught and one had a slight discoloration from the printing, they said it was "sun damage" and demanded half off the entire playset. I told them to fuck off, and said whenever they decided to grow up from the child they were, we could talk then.

>>49672668
Eh, I guess I'll get the cards then

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>>49673317
You can't play Arlin when Nissa, The 5/5 Apocalypse costs 1 more.

>>49674111
Pretty much. 3 mana is probably too cheap for what she does, 4 mana is too much.
Maybe make her 3 mana and have her +1 only give +1/+2 or something would've been better.

>>49672812
>When did shock become too powerful for standard?

Wizards hates Burn as an archetype because no one enjoys playing against it. The more 'target creature or player' burn sells they print, the more likely it is to show up in Standard.

I think there is a good u/r control/burn deck that can stall out aggro decks and then build an aggressive board.

the funny thing, is that I've been playing saheeli rai, and I've been able to ult twice with it in testing, but I literally have 0 artifacts in the deck. That part is going to change (looking at Torrential Gearhulk).

But here is a question, if you have Juri-En Ruin Diver in play and play Cathartic Reunion/Tormenting Voice and discard/madness Fiery Temper, does this count as two spells and thus trigger the draw ability?

>>49674346
>But here is a question, if you have Juri-En Ruin Diver in play and play Cathartic Reunion/Tormenting Voice and discard/madness Fiery Temper, does this count as two spells and thus trigger the draw ability?

answer: yes

socratic answer: did you cast the Cathartic Reunion? Did you cast the Tormenting Voice? (hint, read the reminder text for Madness)

>>49674393
>Tormenting Voice

I meant Fiery Temper, obviously

>>49674393
That's what I thought. It just seemed to good to be true when I was testing.

Cathartic Reunion is straight awesome. Especially in decks with lots of spells and GDD/Torrential Gearhulk

>>49674393
Also, if I recast Cathartic Reunion off of GDD, do I need to discard 2?

>>49674527

It's an additional cost, and so must be payed in ADDITION to any cost for which you cast it.

(yes)

>>49674692
Okay, that's what I thought. I love fiery temper, especially for its madness cost.

>>49668131
Someone wasn't around during Chronicles-Fallen Empires-Homelands.

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>>49675065
but what about Type 2 powerhouse Ihsan's Shade?
>can't be hit by Swords to Plowshares
>can't be hit by Terror or Dark Banishing
>5/5 body

>>49675324
Serrated arrows.

>>49656228
>Barely in Dredge

Grim Flayer is an absolute house in modern GBx decks.

>>49663748
Playing pauper is much more fun than worrying about standard cards that will rotate in a few months. It eases the mind, especially for a poor anon like me. And its more diverse than standard likely will ever be.

>>49668762

OP is the guy who bought a load of Midnight Oil for speculation and is trying to push it

>>49655916
You are mistaken.
> You choose how the counters will be distributed as you put Verdurous Gearhulk’s triggered ability onto the stack. Each target creature must be assigned at least one counter.

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Can we have a moment of silence for all the retards that bought Chandra at her le hype price of 50-60?

I am trying to Brew a G/U energy deck. Any ideas on what I can do to smooth it out outside of buy 2 more Smuggler's Copters? Should I switch out Attune for Traverse the Ulvenwald?


Creatures
4x Minister of Inquiries
4X longtusk Cub
4x Aether Theorist
4X Servant of the Conduit
3X Architect of the Untamed
4x Aethersquall Ancient

Spells
4x Attune with Aether
3x Blossoming Defense
2X Smuggler's Copter
2X Oath of Nissa
3x Tamiyo, Field Researcher

>>49676140
>Can buy her for $26 right now

people who thought they were investing early in the next JTMS must be rolling

>>49676140
No, they deserved to get jipped

>>49675771
Which is pretty fucking stupid because that's not how it works.
If it's not in the Top 8 its not going to increase in value.
Instead of shilling it he should prove it by having it be a 4 of in a deck and placing in a GP with it.

>>49651164
Reminds me of outpost siege.

Would run is RB aggro

>>49676471
I have no idea how people were comparing her to Jace. Jace has 3 amazing abilities and all of Chandra's are pretty bad.

I guess it didn't help that I saw a lot of articles and pros circle jerk the fuck out of her.

>>49676829
Her emblem is fucking awesome
Definitely nowhere near Jace's abilities but she's not bad at all
Best planeswalker of the set.
Dovin could be great if he started with 1 extra loyalty, he's such a big target

>>49676140
>>49676471
>>49676562
>>49676829
>>49676876

Should I get her at 26?

I know she's not mindsculptor good, but she's still useful in this standard.

>>49677094
Get her when she hits $6

>poorfags complain about standard prices
>wizards make EV into lottery system instead of printing better cards at lower rarities
>"WIZARDS IS DOING THIS TO MAKE STANDARD CHEAPER" the fanboy apologists screamed
>at first individual card prices are cheap
>over time a lot more players play since it's "affordable"
>cards rocket back to normal standard prices
>trusting wotc to help the player base instead of wringing them for pennies

>>49667844
>there are actually players sitting on hundreds of copies of a card
There are. There are also people sitting on hundreds of unopened boxes. However, even if one or some of them were to dump their entire collections on the secondary market the price would likely have a slight hiccup and then go back to where it was before.

Remember the buyouts? The cards that where bought out couldn't possibly constitute even 5% of the total amount of cards printed. Yet prices were affected majorly short term, for the most part.

The thing ismarket price for most of the expensive is where it should be. An increase in supply might decrease price for a while, but that will in turn increase demand until the price goes up again.

>>49677094
I would say wait a tad longer

I believe she will sit at around 15-20

>>49677517
I agree with this

I quite dislike the Masterpiece idea

>>49677094
Don't take monetary advice from other people. It's especially easy to give bad advice when it's your own money that's at stake.

Buy her when you can afford her.

>>49677648
>when it's your own money that's at stake.
Not your own money, damnit.

>>49677517
let's be honest - making standard more affordable was never a reason or purpose why super mythics (expeditions, masterpieces, etc) were created. never. lowering the price of standard was an unintended side effect.

super mythics lower the price of cards in standard by increasing the supply of the cards in those sets. people buy more packs and boxes hoping to get super mythics. but you know what else causes people to buy more packs and boxes and increases the supply of a set? printing more good cards in that set. when you have a set with very few good cards, no one buys it, which makes those few good cards skyrocket in price. look what happened with magic origins and jace, vryn's prodigy.

and yes drafting sells packs, but not as many as it used to. especially with how much shit wizards puts out nowadays. we barely got a month to draft conspiracy 2 (the draft-based set) before kaladesh came out and it was time to start drafting that.

>>49677517
you do know everyone who screamed about EVs and shit are poorfags like you?

reminder that R/G land destruction with Arlin Kord is the best deck in standard

>>49677689
The people talking about the EV are concerned for the health of the game. The masterpieces are clearly intended to artificially move product that no one really wants, with the sole reason that Wizards has seen an enormous increase in sales over the last few years which is now slowing down. An increase they, and Hasbro, are very interested in seeing continuing.

>>49677745
>An increase they, and Hasbro, are very interested in seeing continuing.

It's completely unsustainable. They can't keep up this growth for very long and it's a bad business decision to attempt it.

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>>49677689
I play modern and buy whatever I want because I have a virtually limitless entertainment budget. I'm just laughing at those mad about standard prices and sucking wotc dick all the time. Stay salty.

>>49677764
Yes, that's what we're saying.

>>49677517
Wow anon why are you so grumpy

I bet you won't even be thankful when they introduce Super Ghost Premium Masterpieces in Amonkhet!

Rumor has it that only 1 exists every 10,000 cases and the cards are lined with gold with holographic 3d diamond foiling. Better hurry up and buy your boxes now so you can get one!

>>49677692
What the fuck does that list look like

>>49677767

> I have a virtually limitless entertainment budget
>a frogposter

How many good boy points did you accumulate?

>>49660524
I'm using the black one, the card draw is better

>>49665677
Used to be brewing to get the colossus on the field. New plan is to have in in the grave, drop puppet master and use colossus to sacrifice my field.

>>49675996

Yeah I rechecked gatherer afterwards and turns out you're right.

>>49677094

She should hit $20-$25 range. Honestly the one planeswalker you should get is Nissa Vital Force. Instant ult if you have an Oath of Gideon in play.

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>>49669089
you have four possible clue tokens in your mainboard, so mysteries is pretty bunk

vet cathar is a less good electrostatic pummler imo

-1 thalia given you've got three consuls as backup

dec is good enough but cut one, lose the snares they're vulnerable right now and slide in your blessed alliances

Fat nissa goes in the two open slots

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>>49671077
jund with g/r energies is really fuckin sweet

>>49675462
I'll see your Serrated Arrows and raise you one Aeolipile.