Napoleonic Fantasy Part 2: Don't Feed the Troll Edition

Didn't know there were so many black guys in the Napoleonic wars

>>49634379
Soldiers who have tanned faces covered in smoke and dirt, anon

>>49634387
Stop white washing history /pol/tard

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Posting an old game I wrote, based on the Traveller system (which has a nice deadly combat system, and rules for antique muskets, sabers, knives, etc.)

Its pretty basic, but I ran a couple of one-shots with it and was a lot of fun.

We discussed last thread the dangers of making each nation correspond to a fantasy race, and personally I prefer low fantasy where most of the focus is on humans anyways. So what can we do to add some fantasy to the period without going into elfland and orcia and a whole new pantheon and all that?

Also, I agree with the anon from last thread (there may have been multiple) who thought that anything that makes men magically braver, or gets into magic nuke territory, is bad, because it takes away from the true courage if you have an enchanted banner to follow or whatnot.

>>49634396
Can you convert this to a readable font?

>>49634379
Have you ever seen a frenchman in real life?

>>49634457
I suggested last thread a more supernatural fantasy aspect, in line with the beliefs of the day - devils, angels, swamp creatures, apparitions, legendary beasts and figures drawn from folklore like baba yaga.

The Period also has an excellent naval aspect, where unnatural storms and sea creatures could also manifest. Master and Commander + sea monsters could be hilarious

>>49634379
Well there was Dumas so...

>>49634457
The point I made last thread wasn't that magic makes men braver but bravery powers the magic

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>>49634379
>Didn't know there were so many black guys in the Napoleonic wars

Numerous black troops served in a variety of regiments, such as the Mamelukes, the Neapolitian "African" Regiment, the British "Royal American" Regiment, and so forth. French and British regiments which served in the Caribbean extensively recruited locals to bolster ranks devastated by disease, and naturally these recruits subsequently returned to Europe with their regiments later on. Captain Grattan of the 88th (Connaught Rangers) notes that several black soldiers served in that supposedly all-Irish regiment during the Peninsula War.

>>49634497
>several black soldiers served in that supposedly all-Irish regiment during the Peninsula War.
Those where just native Spaniards my friend.

>>49634497
>in that supposedly all-Irish regiment
What, you've never heard of Black Irish?

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>>49634497
>several black soldiers served in that supposedly all-Irish regiment
Reminds me of this 1800's political cartoon.

>>49634472
IMO that's all from a couple hundred years earlier though. I don't think too many Napoleonic soldiers were wandering around watching out for swamp creatures - unless that's what we're calling Spanish guerillas now - so it's not really a belief of the day.

>>49634528
>>49634530
Seeing as the 88th was recruited from the Western Shore they would have had their share. But >>49634508 this anon is correction in that they would have been Afro-Spaniards of various kinds.

>>49634472
>Master and Commander + sea monsters could be hilarious

The size of Kraken you would need to threaten even a frigate is way the fuck out of the low fantasy range.

>>49634560
what if its some kind of giant sea crab that gets on deck and starts snipping people in half?

Also who said low fantasy... I'd probably go for mid fantasy. lots of history, plenty of crazy fantasy shit, a real whirlwind of shit going down, with the players in the center.

>>49634534
Most soldiers from the time were still pretty religious, no reason not to play on that. Supernatural stuff works in any period really.

>>49634560
then how about stuff like aquatic dinosaurs and megalodons?

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>>49634379
Bitches don't know about my nigger General Alex Dumas.

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>>49634608
Not to mention Touissant L'Overture and all the Haiti stuff

>>49634608
>>49634623
Thats the great thing about the Napoleonic times - such a combination of combatants. How many different ethnicity were in Le Grande armee when they marched into Russia? more than 20? more than 50?

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>Prussian
>Orcs

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>>49634657
delet this.

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>>49634643
>How many different ethnicity were in Le Grande armee when they marched into Russia? more than 20? more than 50?

2/3rds of the Grand Armee in 1812 were foreigners, from everywhere from Portugal to Denmark to Croatia to Sicily. I know there were a few Algerians, one of the skeletons recovered from the Vilnius mass grave discovered in 2001, and randomly tested, had genetic markers from there.

>>49634667
>Both warlike
>Both thrive off conflict

tell me you don't see it

>>49634682
B-but muh ordnung und disziplin.

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>>49634217
I prefer the 30 years war myself.

>>49634696
Orcs can be disciplined and ordered, It was once said Saxons couldn't be disciplined and their military legacy is rife with it

>>49634682
Orcs dont really have the strict discipline and upper class royalty with fancy fine dinning and string quartets though. If anyone had to be orcs, it would be like the scots or something

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>>49634696
>>49634682
>>49634657
In Flintloque the Prussians ("Krautians") were Dwarves, it was the Brits ("Albioners") who were the Orcs

>>49634721
>orc in kilts doing the highland charge
Glorious.

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>>49634704
>Tfw current setting is renaissance era fantasy custom setting
>goblins use thirty years war tactics, mass musket fire, boar riders, as well as ogres and hybrid monstrosities
>We play as low level vampires, gotta avoid most of the humans anyway
>Guards all have twin pistols and quick draw
>They fire both pistols at you then draw their saber and attack

Its a very fun setting to be part of, although currently the city we're in is under siege, so our ancient master vampire has us eliminating the main rulers so he can take control of the city and make a deal with the goblins - I just know it isn't going to end well....

>>49634596
Sorry I thought that guy was making suggestions for >>49634457

>I'd probably go for mid fantasy. lots of history, plenty of crazy fantasy shit, a real whirlwind of shit going down, with the players in the center.

Could you possibly be more vague lol

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>>49634772
>They fire both pistols at you then draw their saber and attack
My favorite combo, next to fire a few volleys with the rifle then mass bayonet charge with a side of sword and halberd.

>>49634604
Still fucking tiny compared to a ship. Even a frigate of that time is really damn big, weighs thousands of tons, can launch thousands of pounds of metal in one broadside...

>>49634721
>Orc Highlanders

eh I guess, although I do love the Idea of Orc's learning discipline through years of military disasters and the advent of gunpowder largely sidelining their formidable strength in favor of dedicating themselves to the mastery of gunpowder warfare

>Ottoman Elves

all my yes

>>49634801
Sur but they could still do plenty of damage to a ship.

>>49634811
t b h I thin the Quing would be better elves, but they wouldn't see much use would they?

>>49634800
A single concentrated volley and then give the enemy cold steel or bust

I think the Infinity series of interactive novels is related to this, kinda

>>49634772
>setting is renaissance
>goblins use thirty years war tactics

So...what's the difference?

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mmm them line formations and musket smoke everywhere

>>49634801
The main vessel in master and commander was acutally a smaller one, its based on the HMS Speedy: 200 tons, 14 guns.

Captain Jack Aubrey is based on Thomas Cochrane, who is quite a character, and would make an excellent PC:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Cochrane,_10th_Earl_of_Dundonald#Service_in_the_Royal_Navy

The reason he was given such a shitty little ship is he was too much of an individual and tended to ignore orders and do his own thing. They gave him a crappy little 200 ton vessel and he was able to work absolute magic with it, capturing a Spanish vessel 4 times her size, and with 7 times more firepower, while only losing 3 men:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Speedy_(1782)#Speedy_and_Gamo

Either way, sea creatures are pretty much at the discretion of the DM, no matter what size your vessel is, a DM can still make them a threat, either by being fucking massive, interfering with weather, or just coming on deck and causing havoc on the crew.

When did this become a thing?

I've been working on a campaign in this regard for a while, and I'm about ready to roll it out. I wasn't aware this was a popular way to do things.

>>49634895
Larger armies, first of all. Thinner formations. Shallower Cavelery formations, favoring shock power. Lines instead of tercios.

>>49634941
Well Flintloque came out in 1995, and the Temeraire novels started in 2006; I don't know if there are earlier examples of Napoleonic fantasy.

>>49634941
Pretty much yesterday. Although many of us have always enjoyed the Napoleonic period. Very colorful time.

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>>49634951
And that's ignoring the equipment difference.

>>49634951
The renaissance era encompasses the thirty years war. They were two ways of saying the same thing. That other anon asking about the difference is just retarded.
Renaissance era: 14th to 17th century
Thirty Years war: 1618 - 1648

TYW is essentially late renaissance.

>>49634379
What? He walked into the african meatgrinder and slav (white nigger) freezer

>>49634978
Well, dunno if tactics include equipment.

>>49634983
The 17th century isn't part of the Renaissance era, at least not as a whole. Making the cut at the TYW is alright from a military point of view, considering how it changed the nature of war.

>>49634983
>TYW is essentially late renaissance.
In military history terminology the Renaissance period usually ends around 1600 as firearms become widespread, and turns in the Pike and Shot period until about 1720, from when it's the Musket Age.

>>49635003
>Well, dunno if tactics include equipment.
Nah, my mistake, but the equipment available will certainly decide how one approaches battle.

>>49635004
Aye, the age of the knight ends somewhere around the 1400-1500.

>>49634217
ELVEN HESSIANS

>>49635047
>not Half elf Janissaries and Elvish Ottomans

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>>49634958
Neat.

>>49634960
Yes, yes. I play Napoleonic Wars for the linebattles all the time, it's great.

Angelos are Lizards, clearly.

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>>49635054
Get out turkroach.

>>49635098
fuck off nationalist insalah

>>49635091
Spaniards dragonlike (greed and halfbreed happy)
French are frogs

>>49634933
Speedy was a brig, not a frigate. A small frigate would be 600 tons or so, on up to the super-frrigates or razees which were a thousand tons heavier or more.

>>49634983
When I was asking about the difference, I was poking fun at it being in the same period, so there isn't a difference.

>>49635120
Go back to bed baby Baba.

>>49635091
Angelos are clearly Dwarves.

Gruff, ugly, love mines, Love Stout and Beef. Unrefined but disciplined and stubborn. Love facial hair like beards and mutton chops.

French are Elves.

Haughty, skilled combatants, Veterans of many wars who work from experience. Passionate in the arts. Favor the mustache.

It's why they have such a long standing rivalry.

>>49635191
funny but seriously stop /int/posting it stiffles creativity

>>49635222
Pretty much everyone back then was wearing a beard, mustache, sideburns, or some combo thereof.

>>49635241
Well clearly fantasy Napoleonic wars was started because the Elven Emperor had no facial hair like a proper Demi-human should.

>>49634379
Oh jeez, I can't wait until Dice makes a Napoleonic Wars FPS
>France isn't a playable nation
>The main character for the campaign is a black Italian of the Old Guard... somehow serving the Kingdom of Italy... because why the fuck not
>Black Russians, black British, the whitest soldiers are Ottomans

>>49635222
>Elves
>Mustache
Wot? Elves rarely have any facial hair.

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>>49635172
I'm aware of that, which is why I specified looking at smaller ships. I never mentioned Frigates.

>>49635069
Napoleonics are great fun to play even without fantasy. So many different unit types and tactics. great combined arms

>>49634721
Hobgobs.

Remember that the Prussian upperclass were descendant of the Teutonic Knights that converted to Lutheranism. I would think a fantasy version would have been descendant of a ruthless knightly/paladin order that converted either to a heresy or a different god but still preserved their martial and knightly spirit while gradually becoming more and more secular.

Perhaps Not!Prussian kings and generals are still expected to slay a dragon at some point or ride a Griffin or something else paladins used to do back in the old days.

>>49636834
Also to note on top of that, the Austrian Habsburgs claimed to be the lawful successors of the Western Roman Emperors as re-established by the Papacy and Charlemagne. Even after Napoleon dissolved the Holy Roman Empire the Austrian Archduke/King would hold the title of Caesar until the end of World War I.

If there was some sort of fantasy empire in this setting's past like Rome/Gondor/Valyria/etc., complete with dragon or giant eagle motifs for their symbol, then not!Austrian Habsburgs would claim to be their successors, despite this upstart from not!France claiming to be the first great emperor reborn.

>>49637059
At this point I think I'm the only one in this thread but screw it I'm writing anyways.

Not!Spain is the last great colonial empire before the others got in on the action and many wars mad it a lot more of a competitive playing field. But the reason they became that in the first place was because they are the last remnant of a Not!Crusader state and first sons of the Church/Temple. After centuries of pushing the infidels out of their lands and purging non believers they were stagnant for a bit until one of their minor kingdoms, Not!Portugal, found a way to circumvent the sea routes that were being blocked by the infidels. Along the way they found new lands, new routes to the far side of the globe, and new peoples to convert to the true religion.

Of course a few wars and a golden age of piracy later, they are now the still large but declining empire. And they do not take kindly to this would be atheist emperor claiming to be true ruler of the continent.

Deus Vult.

Anybody have more fantasy or sci fi styled after the French Revolution? I'm actually running a game of Only War adapted into a homebrew based off of the Napoleonic Wars era so some of these ideas are pretty handy.

>>49637059
NotAustria should also have lots of different races in it's empire, like how Austria had a lot of different ethnicities in it aswell. Dwards from the Alps, (probably a couple of different tribes aswell). Some orcs in the marhes, elves from the Old empire and a lot of minor races.

>>49637971
I kind of agree with others in this thread that we should not categorize nations by fantasy race. However, having fantasy races mixed in to the nations a bit like how Eberron did it seems doable.

I hesitate to call it Austria since that only included the archduchy part of the Habsburgs lands. The Kingdoms of Hungary and Bohemia were also a part of it, but rule by the same king and dynasty.

But I mention that for a reason. Not!Austria should show some last vestiges of old feudalism in its attempt to be an absolute monarchy. You would still have castles, knights, and old monasteries. The nobles mostly live in palaces instead of castles that they own, and the knights are just honorary titles for military officers, but they try to call back to their legacy of fighting enemies of the kingdom, saving damsels, and hunting monsters.

Basically, Not!Austria should have a nobility trying to hold on to old feudal/fantasy-kingdom images for the sake of austerity, even if they do not believe it. But with a multi-ethnic nobility and people, that image can only go so far without breeding conflict so the Emperor probably does his best to keep the nobles occupied with either entertainment or foreign wars.

>>49637971
>>49638201
I should I like how Pillars of Eternity did their version of the Old World Empire being a dual monarchy between a human and an elf who rule as a couple but each have their own family. Not!Austria could probably have something like that, even if it is not specifically humans and elves that make up the dual-monarchy.

I have started a google document I intend to edit and have others contribute. I will be typing stuff up as time goes throughout the week.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1lHn_ulWBBei-Yt1FJqUmEYE8oXUUhkTrh-9CN6pN0Uw/edit?usp=sharing

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzPLmDdtj_4

>>49638588
Look at that huge flying bullet sponge.

>>49635054
>persian dark elves
>mughal half-orc/elves
>chinese elans
>elves conquered aasimar/tiefling byzantium

This shit writes itself!

>>49636834
>>49637059
This is some good stuff anon. Keep it up!

>>49637357
No. Too close. Back dat ass up.

>>49638920
That might be the point. Dragon scales can resist bullet fire so it acts as a target and giant fear tactic while also getting a good view of the enemy.

>>49638201
Wait, so like a latter-day Bretonnia? I dig it.

>>49638995
>No. Too close. Back dat ass up.

Too close to what?

>>49639020
Kind of a cross between Bretonnia and The Empire of the Old World. But yeah.

>>49638997
Dragons could act as a magical napalm dropper

>>49639036
I think your Not!Spain is a little too on the nose. I mean, we should either find a different angle to push or replace it with some other concept. Maybe just make the whole region more like Portugal. Or, play off the fact that Portugal had to abandon Europe for a while and rule from Brazil. Maybe in this world the Iberian equivalent went the way of Atlantis, forcing the monarchy to relocate their capital to the colonies.

>>49639129
Perhaps in its history but if we make the religion quite different and make the nation have gone through a metamorphosis due to its imperial power it could work. Say it grew out of a crusader state but it in itself is a wholly different empire now focused more on colonial power instead of protecting its so-called holy places.

I'd still want an ostentatious monarchy complete with dwarf servants in the palace and inbred kings. I want to see a once great Crusader order of knights reduced to a palace guard.

I like the atlantean idea for Not!Portugal (even though it actually happened because of Napoleon's invasion, not before it).

>>49637357
Okay, continuing this trend of covering the great powers I still have left Russia, Great Britain, the Ottoman Caliphate, and France...... and I really do not know what I am going to do about some of them.

If Not!Russia should reflect anything from Russia, it's that Russia was odd. Russia is a European power but it is a very latecomer while probably being the one nation in Europe that could rival Napoleon's empire at its height. But Russia just a century ago had decided to modernize and be like the other European powers. Before then they were a very odd, Eurasian Slavic people with strange customs, strange version of the same religion, and strange laws.

A fantasy Not!Russia for this period should look like a strange collection of Grand Dukes with Fae ancestry and dealings with the strange spirits of the land and forest, but recently united under a powerful emperor. These emperors started as just the most powerful of these princes before modernizing a hundred years ago and making it a great colonial empire that expanded over the eastern horizon. Where axes were used once, now are muskets. Where was once old dealings with fae are now new dealings with trade routes and empires of the east. The united army still gets its generals from these princes so you may see strange denizens of the forest and snow making up the auxilliary: Not!Cossacks and the like. Perhaps the Orcish Not!Tartars make up part of their cavalry, for they have long beaten back the great Orc Chief that once devastated them. They are now a new empire, but they are patient. They can outlast this upstart in the west who wants to unite the lands. They can outlast revolutions.

>>49634704
Could be fun. I think a sort of Black Company sort of setup could work nicely in a setting like that.

Prussia should be civilized Orcs and the rest of Germany should be warring Orcs who could barely ever get their shit together.

>>49640279
Germany should look less like the Greenskins from Warhammer and more like The Empire from Warhammer. Being a loose confederation is not the same as "not getting shit together." A German principality in this setting should look like the kingdom in Disney's Tangled, not like a collective band of savages.

You seem to be confusing a fantastical Germany with a fantastical Central Asia.

>>49640353
Why?

>>49640689
Why would they be orcs? Germany at the time was a very loose confederation of noble demesnes, free cities, and bishoprics. No one would accuse them of being uncivilized, just disunited.

You should see history of religious rebellions and civil wars like the Thirty Years' War or the Münster Rebellion. You should see little republics, trade cities, guilds, basically everything you see in a typical DnD starting area but with an age of musket feel to it.

Nothing about it reflects barbaric orcs who fight one another. Maybe civilized but still very proud and independent orcs who refuse to unite but they definitely should be more refined than roving orc bands. But we already decided that this setting is not going to be divided by race.

>>49640839
Because it's a fantasy version? They can be anything.

>>49641534
Can, yes. Would? Come on man.

>>49634530

straight out of /pol/

>>49640279
You don't have to use orcs in every fantasy setting.

>>49638920
cover it in grenadiers and fly above musket range

your main enemies are anti air batteries of specially built pepperpot cannons, and other fliers , dragons/wyverns/manticores/rocs/giant eagles or entire cavalry forces on hippogrifs, gryphons or similar

>>49645300
>Squadrons of Giant Eagle Dragoons
This is getting good

>>49634528
I see what you did....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SqKxbLcrmA

Sorry about bad quality

Started adding some rough draft notes to >>49638476. Everyone's welcome to add guidelines and ideas.

Still need to come up with general history, religion, and a few more factions and geographical locations and..... well, most of it.

>Human Cuirassier
>Human or Elven Uhlans
>Elven Hussars
>Dwarf Dragoons
>Halfling Column Infantry
>Dwarf Grenadiers
>Gnomish Artillery

r8 my setup

>>49646723
I'm just not sold on the "generic fantasy races force into napoleonic period" idea.

Nor am I sold on the Not![Nation] way to do it.

Personally I would go with either creating new nations/races, or using the actual nations (the easiest becuase you can draw on the vast history of the period) and adding supernatural or magic or somesuch. Some kind of flying animal capable of being tamed and ridden as cavalry gives a whole new element which I think is pretty cool.
Just my opinion, but adding generic fantasy races into the Napoleonic period feels like a sell out. I dont mind non-human races, like a vampire nation or some kind of half-breed monstrous race or something, just not the same old orcs and elves and goblins.

>>49648539
>>Personally I would go with either creating new nations/races
I do favour this, it just requires a bit more leg work than the standard ye olde medieval times setting.

>>49648539
>Nor am I sold on the Not![Nation] way to do it.
Not!Nation is always a good place to start, you just have to make sure its the launching point and not the end point. So taking the United Kingdom as a base, you have a constitutional monarchy with a parliamentary body, a strong navy and military tradition, and a private sector that's involved in enterprise, all geared around advancing the Empire.

You either take elements of that and mix in new ones, or add other elements on top.

Personally I'd much rather add a little fantasy to the real world than delve into "not!Spain" and "not!France" and race lines. It undermines the whole nationalism/revolution ideas of the era. IMO there would be no strong reason for the Dwarves to feel like they need to stop the spread of Elvish republicanism, or the Humans to feel like they need to emphasize their human identity when their neighbors are orcs.

>>49649994
>>49648539
realismmind

I agree with you guys. Either weave some fantasy elements into the actual history, or go way off the rails and just have the aesthetics without worrying about having racial knockoffs of all the nations.

Just stick with the original nations and human denizens and add some mythical units like canadian Werewolfs for the British, or squadrons of Gévaudan beasts for the french. Ottomans could work with the whole spectrum of middle eastern mythology like Djinns ans Sphinxes while Austria is ruled by Vampires.

>>49649994
>>49650008
Okay, Anon doing the Google Doc and Not!Nations here. With that in mind I'll delve into something a lot more fictional instead of having a Not!Russia.

Instead, there is a nation was once a rich trading republic, long after being coastal raiders in the north. Basically Vikings meets Slavic/Tatar Raiders. The Avari, as they were called, settled down, traded with one another, and controlled trade to the exotic east for spices, jewels, and even a bit of alchemical magic.

But then 500 years ago the Raiders came. You can make these Orcs or just barbarians. Either way they were led by a mad cultist warchief who threatened to wipe out the continent. The Avari, realizing they were the only ones in the way of total subjugation of the lands, united in courage as one nation to defeat the black horde, and lost.

For 200 years were they ruled as slaves to their foreign conquerors, until infighting among the chiefs was taken as an opportunity but a small group of wizards. Being the ones that could resist the conquerors without use of material weapons, the magi, usually just town wisemen, quickly became the administration of society, and eventually replaced the horde as a shadow government. (Continued)

>>49651942
Soon, having done the longevity rituals he needed, he set about political machinations to unite the nation once more under a new magi nobility, but with himself being the ultimate new emperor and holder of the arcane secrets. Now, the new nation of Samara (name after his family name), has united and even through is own manipulation modernized into an absolute monarchy with himself as the indefinite monarch. Other nations have modernized themselves to deal with the threat of this new empire in the east, delving into research into new magic and technology to make sure if ever need be they can form a coalition against this new and old Emperor Samara.