/scg/ - Scion General Thread

>>49629334

Is there anything even left to talk about at this point? Maybe we should save future generals until the game is actually out.

>>49629518
So we can't talk about 1st edition? I was hoping too considering I have a Ragnarok game I am about to start running this Thursday.

>>49629995
We can, so long as it doesn't turn into "we were lied to!" whining.

>>49629518
Well the Kickstarter is still ongoing, so if nothing else the thread drums up a minuscule amount of traffic, not that the game needs it. I mostly use the thread to know what people on the forums or Kickstarter page are saying without having to actually do any legwork myself.

>>49630202
>We can, so long as it doesn't turn into "we were lied to!" whining.

Explain? All I know about how /tg/ feels about the game comes from 1d4chan.

>>49630254
Look through the archive of the last few threads. A few were really buttblasted about it.

>>49630308
Oh yeah! I forgot about the archive, despite the fact I've been in this hell for over 10 years.

>>49630334
The archive is new relatively speaking.

>>49630349
The archive is garbage, and I avoid it whenever I can. I'm just way too used to the additional features that don't work on the archive, like backlinks.

>>49630254
Essentially there's at least one person, maybe two, who feel that the changes (no Titanomachy as the only focus, different system entirely, slightly more open supernatural elements, powers called "Epic [Social]" or "Epic [Mental]" no longer existing) mean that this is a COMPLETELY different game, and everyone who backed it is going to be angry that what they're getting is so different from what they expected.
But I'm pretty sure the majority of people backing know exactly what they're getting, and many of them have probably been keeping up with the changes since spoilers first started rolling in.
Some people are also pissy that it starts at Origins instead of Hero.

>>49630581
>Backlinks don't work with the archive
Wot?

>>49630581
I would have been happy with the just reprinting it with an errata on UO or something. I am a little confused as to why even make Origins. That being said I threw $100 at the kickstarter.

>>49630650
The archive isn't 4chan, so my fancy settings don't carry over.
The archive also isn't in Tomorrow theme. Although come to think of it I've never tried to change settings on the Archive pages.
Then again there are like three different archives.

>>49630670
UO? Also, the problems are really far too extensive for an errata.
Origins is probably to expand the line to make it more like WoD's set up.
Part of why they made Storypath after all is that they want a back up plan if Paradox ever takes away the Chronicles or 20th Anniversary or Exalted licenses.

Also wow, 100$ is a lot of money.

>>49630747
>The archive isn't 4chan
>Then again there are like three different archives.
Oh, you're talking about external archives?

https://boards.4chan.org/tg/archive
It only goes back 7 days though.

>>49630747
I was saving up for a bit, and UO means untouchable opponent, possibly the most broken knack in the game.

I always wondered what there relationship was with Paradox after they bought out WW from CCP.

>>49630803
I didn't even know you could get to those archives directly. I thought you had to be linked to a thread. I don't think of "this post is archived" as being "the archives". Though I guess it is.

>>49630816
Licenser and licensee, essentially.

It is probably because it is a preview and thus incomplete, but I'm not quire sure how weapons and armor work. They just add tags to your attack/armor?

>>49631132
Fuck if they make it like FATE I will be so buttblasted Angry Marines will tell me to calm the fuck down!

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>>49630202
>We can, so long as it doesn't turn into "we were lied to!" whining.
A: A Scion general is a perfectly appropriate place to point out that OPP are being dicks strong-arming the majority of their scion customers into buying a book they didn't want, didn't ask for purely for the core rules, despite having no interest in the game surrounding it. Though I wouldn't call it a lie as much as a bald-faced betrayal that they know the fans will put up with, a-la Games-Workshoop. They're not hiding what they're doing, they're just doing something the fans explicitly asked them not to do, because they know they can, and it will make them more money. It's less of a con, and more of bullying the fanbase into submission.

B: There shouldn't be any qualifiers about talking about Scion in a Scion General

C: It's perfectly possible to discuss 1e without talking about how much you hate what Origins represents... I'm choosing not to, but it's perfectly possible.

>>49629995
I'm totally down for that, because I was actually thinking about running a sort of "1.5 edition" Ragnarok for my players to get in the groove for the 2e sequel campaign to our old one that I promised them back when 2e was announced. I was mostly wondering if anyone else around had run Ragnarok and whether it was any good or not.

>>49631289
I have the same question.

>>49631283
>I'm choosing not to, but it's perfectly possible.
Then that's just trolling and shitposting.
Everything you're saying is bullshit that applies primarily to you, not to "a majority of their customers".
Go complain to that OnyxPathLies twitter account.

>>49631289
1.5 in what way?

>>49629334
>I guess it's up to me edition.

I was figuring we were going to wait for further KS updates or spoilers really. Last thread was dead without something new to discuss or argue over

>>49631435
We could argue over what goddess is a better waifu. I say The Morrigan is best waifu!

>>49631491
I actually do have to go with Inari, as someone pointed out in the last thread. Touch fluffy tail nine times.
Plus, if my understanding of furries is right, foxes are total cocksluts.

>>49631518
>Plus, if my understanding of furries is right, foxes are total cocksluts.

Foxes, rabbits, mice, minks...skunks, if you're into anal. At least in my experience.

>>49631518
From living regretfully with a lot of furries in my life that is true.

>>49631413
Mostly 1e with a few additions from what of 2e we know so far. Right now, I've got this as a list of house-rules and additions.

- Epics just give their dot bonus instead of the Fibonacci sequence scaling they have normally.
- Likewise, Arete and Geass have the same scaling.
- General Purview Boons can be purchased in any order within their tier, for a flat rate.
- Norse scions can choose a new Wyrd PSP that I'm writing up, or Jotunblut if they really want it for whatever reason.
- Fire has access to the new Heavenly Flame boon at Hero.
- Boons that only work with a specified weapon type (like Flamin' Bullets) can be applied to whatever weapon type the character prefers.
- Better scaling on followers/creatures, as to not become completely worthless in Act II.
- Perception to damage on guns
- Introducing Paths, less as a mechanical thing, and more to get the group acquainted with that aspect of chargen.

I'll probably end up thinking of more/compiling a full list in the morning, but that's all I can think of off the top of my head at 1 in the morning.

>>49631651
I'd hold off trying to pull that off till we have the final PDFs.

>>49631491
Why is it THE Morrigan and THE Dagda. Like, is that their title?

>>49632346
Its both there names and titles, as The Morrigan means "The Phantom Queen", its an Irish thing.

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This is how I Scion of Thor.
Mythologically accurate.

>>49631708
But at that point he could just run 2e.

>>49632412
GO BACK TO /d/! REEEEEEE!

>>49631132
Weapons are a collection of tags which have mechanical consequence, particularly fine or magic ones can provide enhancement bonuses or knacks. Playtest anon here, etc.

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>>49631283
Oh boy here we go

>>49632428
That's not even porn.

>>49632412
How to troll /pol/'s Norse neopagan brigade: the picture.

Probably almost as good at the job as the example Scion of Loki in the preview of the book.

>>49633294
Which one?

>>49632412
>But at that point he could just run 2e.
There are a number of things that 1e has to offer, that 2e doesn't, but that a 1e-fix informed by 2e could have.

It's kind of like D&D editions, other than 3.PF, each one offers something fundamentally different, and the existence/release of a new one doesn't mean there's "no reason to play the old one."

I can see a number of reasons, both mechanical and story-type-wise why someone would want a 1e-fix that uses 2e over 2e.

>>49633308
The Arabic "refugee" who's pretty much every negative stereotype about them, short of actively building bombs or raping white women.

>>49633375
wut.
He's former doctor from [probably] Iraq who finally escaped the dictatorship he grew up in only to end up as a taxi driver in a bad neighborhood who keeps his head down.

Still waiting on my Exalted 3rd Edition physical copy from the Kickstarter I backed in 2013.

Onyx Path's handling of that honestly lost my confidence in them as a company when it comes to this kind of thing.

>>49630202
>We can, so long as it doesn't turn into "we were lied to!" whining.
Yeah, only opinions you agree with should be allowed on the thread! That's how intelligent discussions form!

>>49633914
I believe most of that was Holden and his partner in crime's fault. Rich did chew them out several times but they never shaped up from what I have been able to glean.

>>49633881
>military-aged male
>they're totally doctors and engineers, not terrorists, goyim!
>taxi driver
>not actually a refugee

Seriously, he's a walking stereotype.

>>49632346
Titles. If they ever had names, no one remembers them anymore except maybe Danu and Manannan simply because they're older.

>>49633923
You're right, I'm sorry. Clearly intelligent discussion forms from repeating the same asinine untrue statement no one wants to hear over and over again

>>49633914
Don't most people already have theirs?

>>49633960
Anon, go back to /pol/

>>49634090
No. Only people with physical copies are those who purchased the print-to-order version. The deluxe Kickstarter hardcovers are still a work in progress.

>>49634090
Aspel, are you seriously fucking defending Holden and Morke?

>>49629334
>guess it's up to me edition.
no. It's not "up to" anybody because we hate this shitty game and everyone that plays it.

>>49629334
Hmm, based on this preview I think I'll pass on Scion 2E(and by extension Aeon/Trinity 2E, I guess).

>>49634143
>Don't most people already have theirs?
In what world is this not a simple question? I'm sorry that I don't know the details of a Kickstarter for a game I don't play.

>>49633375
I can't tell wether the newest Norse Scion being an ethnic arab is just OPP's general diversity push, or an attempt at metacommentary about current scandinavia.

Oh, more fiction. It HAS been a couple of days or so since we've been reminded about lesbians, after all. We'd have just forgotten otherwise.

>>49634152
No one is forcing you to play it. But clearly other people don't feel the same way.

>>49634275
Oh, yeah, I'm totes certain that OPP felt like making a jab "we'll have a Scandanavian go to the Middle East and fuck the Muslims, it's like what people think Muslims are doing, we're so clever!"

>>49634275
Weren't all the official Aesir scions in first edition Americans? Hell, wasn't something like 90% of the official scions in 1e from the US?

>>49634308

The 3 "DLC" Pantheons(Tuatha, Devas, Celestial Bureaucracy) each had one of their 2 example Scions hail from from the people and places that they were historically connected to.

>>49634308
When they said 'American Gods' was a big inspiration for Scion, they *really* emphasized the American part of it.

>>49634308
With the exception of the example scions in God, all the Aesir, Aztlanti, Dodecathon, Loa, and Pesedjet iconic scions were americans. No idea why the Amatsukami were the only pantheon to actually have scions from their associated nation.

>>49634417
>No idea why the Amatsukami were the only pantheon to actually have scions from their associated nation.

...did David Hill work on Scion by any chance?

>>49634417
>>49634436
IIRC, Yukiko was never stated to be actually Japanese, just ethnically. She could've been Japanese-American.

Also, the Loa iconic was from New Orleans. That's as close to the "Loa Homeland" as you can get, unless you say they're the same thing as the Yoruba pantheon.

>>49634546
If Yukiko's bit in God's intro fiction is to be believed, then she's Japanese in both ethnicity and nationality.

>>49630581
>mean that this is a COMPLETELY different game
Well I would fucking hope so. Scion was one of the worst designed games I've ever played. It had some of the most frustrating and broken mechanics I've ever seen in an rpg. The first thing I would do if I was remaking that would be to scrap the entire system and start over with something totally different.

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>>49630581
>a bunch of complaints were raised about different aspects of the game, from changes in the metaplot, to rules changes, to design choices about the books

>but it's all one guy, maybe two, just whining because they don't know anything

Jesus fuck, anon. I didn't agree with half of the complaints, but one reason why the threads were such skub was because you (or people like you, I can acknowledge that there's probably multiple people with similar opinions) were dismissive as fuck, and that made them more angry than the game itself

>>49636468

That's Aspel for you. Even when they're right, they're obnoxious. They also love bringing up old arguments and baiting, more than they love actually playing games.

>>49631283
Im still confused about whats going on. I've heard of Scion before, but never checked it out. Whats wrong with this origins book? Is it cause they're printing two core books??

>>49636625
I don't get how you can tell Aspel apart from other argumentative shitposters.

>>49633914
Every book kickstarted under different lines and developers has been funded and finished in a reasonably timely manner. Exalted's devs made that into a shit show.

>>49633375
Tbh I wouldn't put it past Loki to create the Immigrant crisis and fuck up northern Europe just to fuck with the other Aesir.

>>49634275
Its neither, its an attempt to demonstrate a Scion from a culture and ethnic group not associated with his parent pantheon to demonstrate how gods can get around in the world. And honestly it may be a meta joke about the Scandanavian immigration.

>>49634291
>implying any scandinavian willingly travels to halal land without great need or claiming to be germans

Aspel you numbnuts, he's talking about the issues the scandinavian countries have been having with integrating people and refugees from the Middle East, syrians being just the latest, for the past four decades.

>>49631491
Amaterasu is objectively best.

>>49637034
And Rich T's unwillingness to actually take them to fucking task reflects poorly on OPP as a whole.

>>49637195
Honestly I cannot figure out how those two have jobs still. Even if you don't like a game (like Beast) I can't deny that the bulk of the company chugs along like an actual company. What the fuck did the Hamsterwheel do to get this kind of preferential treatment, suck his dick and give him a few kilos of the finest Colombian cocaine as a gift?

>>49637098
*If*, and that's a big if, it was meta-joke about scandinavian immigration, then being written by americans that's an big case of the pot calling the kettle black.

>>49631435
Speaking of, the last scion blurb was on fate, and they said that they would have more heavy spoilers after gen con. There hasn't been anything since then has there?

>“I’m Japanese,” Black Water corrected icily. “And I’m no Monkey Princess. My father is Susano-o.”

>“Oh that old character!” Coyote said with new enthusiasm. “How’s he doing anyway? I haven’t seen him since the camps in the ’40s. I keep a picture of him here on my windowsill, if you want to see it.”

>Coyote casually headed for the window, and Black Water stepped in front of him. There were no pictures on the sill.

>“Hm,” Coyote said. “You’re a sharp one. Okay, I get that. But what’s a child of Susano-o doing running errands for old Monkey, I wonder? Some sort of Nanking-reparations deal? I understand your daddy has a lot to answer for the day your ancestors showed up there.”

How can one god be so based?

>>49637034

It's a very specific kind of argumentative shitposting. You hang around long enough, you pick up on patterns. It's why begging atamajakki to drop the trip was a silly idea: it's very easy to pick out those posts.

>>49637231

Something to consider: literally no one else will work on running Exalted. That's all there is to it, really.

>>49637267
Honestly it probably wasn't written as that and just wound up being one without intent. I think it was mostly to highlight you can be a Scion of one pantheon from a totally other culture. Gods incarnate into the world wherever the fuck they want and nothing's stopping Loki or Amaterasu or Ares from deciding to go to say, Colombia or Iraq or something.

>>49637361
Other than the Japanese Pantheon being just as big xenophobes as regular japanese people.

>>49637441
Hey man, how can you show them the superiority of your culture if you don't fuck every other culture into submission? See above where Susano-o was involved in the Rape of Nanking!

>>49637272
Coyote (and Raven by association) are broest tier gods.

>>49637355
>Something to consider: literally no one else will work on running Exalted.
Is that actually true though?

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>>49637013
The argument goes like this:

1) Scion is a game about being scions, halfblooded children of gods and mortals getting swept up in the complicated lives of their divine parents while dealing with their own Fate

2) Scion 1e had 3 core books to represent the stages of a Scion's life: Hero (just found out what's going on), Demigod (climbing the mountain), and God (on the level of your parents). Hero had a brief section on what happens pre-Visitation (before your divine parent claims you, gives you the low-down on the mythological reality, and grants you powerful Boons and abilities to handle it), sort of like how Vampire recommends you do one scene set before the character is Embraced to get an idea of who they were as a mortal before moving on to the main point of the game. It also had all the core rules.

3) Scion 2e still wants to keep Hero-Demigod-God. However, the core rules of play and character creation are taken out of Hero. Instead, they are put in Origins, which is all about the life of a character before they are a true Scion -no Boons or Purviews, no connection to your parent or even knowledge of who they are, just adventures in a modern myth world. It also has the rules for playing non-human characters like werewolves, kitsune, etc.

4) People can't just buy Scion: Hero to play Scion as scions. Instead they need to get Origins, which has the rules for playing Scion placed in with a bunch of things that seem extraneous and better suited to a standalone splat. A person needs to have two books with them if they want to play Hero-level Scion, which was the default in 1e, even though they only need maybe 50 pages from one of the books unless they are using the alternate races.

>>49637819
The devs have commented that starting at hero will indeed be possible. I assume the hero book will have alternate character creation rules for just making a hero

>>49638125
They have said that you can start at Hero, but it's not clear how it will work because we don't know what the difference between Origin level and Hero level is. Are Origin characters mechanically identical to Heroes, just without the Boons and Purviews that are applied from Hero? Is there some sort of larger leveling up process? It's possible that Hero will have rules for going from nothing to Hero, but IMO that doesn't make sense. They already know that you had to buy Origins for the core rules, and Origins will have chargen rules for that level in it, I would be surprised if they reproduced a character creation chapter in Hero (at best, it might be a quick list of, "Follow the rules in Origins for character creation, but you get 16 attribute points instead of 10, 6 more skill ranks," etc.)

But that's not the actual point of >>49637819. You can play at Hero level, but you can't do it with the Hero book alone.

>>49637590
He tells an extended story after that about getting a handie by disguising his dick in a bush as a strawberry. Coyote is great

>>49631283
>A Scion general is a perfectly appropriate place to point out that OPP are being dicks strong-arming the majority of their scion customers into buying a book they didn't want
>majority of their scion customers
>book they didn't want
Prove this horseshit. I dare you.

>>49637779

It may as well be. I'm hard pressed to think of someone who would be able and willing to take on Exalted 3e besides the people who got popular thanks to an overhaul of the previous edition. A lot of previous Exalted writers either aren't interested in working on it or don't work in the industry anymore.

>>49632684

Be right back, need to go and check popcorn futures.

>>49637819
>1) Scion is a game about being scions, halfblooded children of gods and mortals getting swept up in the complicated lives of their divine parents while dealing with their own Fate
Very true.

>2) Scion 1e had 3 core books to represent the stages of a Scion's life....
It should also be noted that Scion 1E was only ever suppose to have those books. They never intended any other splat material, as it was one of White Wolf's experimental limited-edition RPG runs.

They broke that mold with the original companion, to give us more fun.

>3) Scion 2e still wants to keep Hero-Demigod-God. However, the core rules of play and character creation are taken out of Hero. Instead, they are put in Origins, which is all about the life of a character before they are a true Scion -no Boons or Purviews, no connection to your parent or even knowledge of who they are, just adventures in a modern myth world. It also has the rules for playing non-human characters like werewolves, kitsune, etc.
This is where you start being incorrect.

The devs have explicitly stated that the connection between a Scion and their parent is still noticeable even at the mortal tier. So that part is, so far, a false statement. Origins, as the name implies, is a way for you to play your scions pre-visitation, if that's something you're interested in (and LOTS of fans were back in the 1E days; many of my campaigns started pre-visitation).

>4) People can't just buy Scion: Hero to play Scion as scions.
People couldn't play Scion: God without Demigod and Hero, was that a problem?

Origins is a new tier of play for people who want it; pre-visitation. It guess it's a bummer that it's mandatory to have the pre-visitation book for those who don't want to play pre-visitation, but no more so than 1E was for people who just wanted to play demigods or gods.

>>49631491

Go Freya or go home!

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/200664283/scion-2nd-edition-tabletop-rpg/posts/1699307

Update on 2e Knacks.

>>49634308

well the US is made up of descendants of other peoples(including the native americans) so all the pantheons might've sired offspring there.

>>49637034

>Every book kickstarted under different lines and developers has been funded and finished in a reasonably timely manner.

Wraith 20 though.....

>>49640470
Enhancements are automatic successes right?

>>49640939
Once you get at least one, yeah

>>49640470
Weird.
These hero level knacks seem pretty low level, like just being really good at hunting. But the hero level boons seem much more powerful, like being able to walk in lava. Makes me wonder what the general level of hero is going to be.

>>49641162
I don't know if this Hero level. It's called Heroic Hunter, but it says these knacks are at the Mortal Level, which iirc is the Origins pre-visitation level.

This is exactly the kind of boring feat I'd expect as an Origins level character, a minor dice bonus instead of something an epic hero would achieve. They're less impressive than the ones from the preview document Brigit had, except for maybe that healing one (which has interesting story weight to it, even though it's not very impressive mechanically). If 'Mortal Level' actually is supposed to be Hero-tier, I'm very surprised.

>>49641162
Playtest spoiler time: Knacks come in two flavors. Low key stuff that isn't obvious magic but can let you stack situational enhancement bonuses for pretty large sets, and the kind that takes a legend to fire off but lets you do shit that's like a boon almost. Theres a Judge one for instance that lets you magically literlize an eye for an eye

>>49634436
This David Hill guy some sort of weeb?

>>49640032
>Origins is a new tier of play for people who want it; pre-visitation. It guess it's a bummer that it's mandatory to have the pre-visitation book for those who don't want to play pre-visitation, but no more so than 1E was for people who just wanted to play demigods or gods.

Who the fuck ever wanted to play as a pre-visitation Scion? To play as a normal jackass with no special anything? Was there any demand for that shit at all?

>>49641476
>Who the fuck ever wanted to play as a pre-visitation Scion? To play as a normal jackass with no special anything?
You literally don't know shit about this setting, do you?

You need to learn about the old edition, kouhai. They don't talk much about scions pre-visitation, but they aren't just regular people.

>>49641476

It's a White Wolf game, so almost certainly yes. Playing an entire Exalted campaign where everyone was a Mortal was a surprisingly common thing.

>>49631283
>OPP selling a core book purely for the rules
This has been standard practice for White Wolf/Onyx Path since Old World of Darkness ended. There's nothing surprising or unexpected about it.

>>49641476
I don't know about that but there was demand for generic scions for people who weren't tied to any one god or had no special divine ancestry.

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>>49641476
You missed a few threads back, where someone played oWoD as a mortal and the campaign ended as soon as people actually got into the supernatural. It's like ponyfags, there's every possible perversion out there.

Why they want to do it in Scion and not one of the dozens of urban fantasy RPGs out there is a different question.

>>49641530
They aren't regular people, but they're close enough. They are still nudged by Fate, but by definition they aren't powerful enough to be really tied to anything. You can be a cool movie star who does his own stunts because he's a badass, but until you receive your Visitation and are proclaimed a Scion of the Monkey King you're not far off from anyone else.

>>49641560
Literally disgusting. Pic related.

>>49641560
>I don't know about that but there was demand for generic scions for people who weren't tied to any one god or had no special divine ancestry.

Generic scions, sure, but if I'm going to play a game where everybody is a literal godspawn I expect to be a pretty damn special snowflake from minute one.

>>49641316
Not really, but he does live in Japan and writes all the Japanese stuff in CofD, so he's got that reputation.
He does seem a bit "I'm not a weeab because I know this stuff for reals" though. Like moving to Japan and not thinking katanas are the coolest means he's absolved of all weeabness. Does that make sense? It probably doesn't.

>>49636468
It clearly wasn't many people, and their complaints were unfounded bullshit. Minor tweaks to the setting were suddenly "everything is completely different!"
>>49636625
>Aspel loves baiting
>But this post where I say that out of nowhere totally isn't baiting
>I have no self awareness, what's this 'irony' thing?

>>49641623
>They aren't regular people, but they're close enough. They are still nudged by Fate, but by definition they aren't powerful enough to be really tied to anything.
Yeah, but they are still more capable of the exceptional than most mortals.

Essentially, they've created a tier for the Scion fans who bitch about wanting to start weaker (remember those guys that bitch about not being able to play peasants in D&D?). And while I can see why people are pissed, I also see why Onyx Path is doing it... it gives the potential for Scion's system and setting to be expanded upon in the same way that the New World of Darkness has been (which also has a core book with rules for playing regular people).

>>49641316
He's the "waifu is racist and sexist, stop using it shitlords!" person from twitter.

Admittedly he did apologize for it after being taken to task for it and called a cultural imperialist by an actual Japanese person.

>>49637267
How so?

>>49637137
So... that thing I said?
Although reading it again it is bad syntax.

>>49637231
Man, I want to know what's going on in Exalted now.

>>49637272
>How can one god be so based?
Have you read Gunnerkrigg Court?
There's one chapter that's all about Coyote explaining mythology and Gods and you know what I'm just going to find the chapter and link it.
http://www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1056
The chapter after it is also one of my favourites.

Coyote is the best.

>>49641557
Pugmire and Cavaliers of Mars aren't planned that way, as far as I know. It makes sense with WoD and Trinity to have a separate rulebook, because each of them modifies the core system in big ways depending on your selection of splat (Werewolf is different from Vampire, Adventure! from Aberrant).

Meanwhile, Scion is more like Pugmire and Cavaliers in that you go in with a set scope and place in the universe. A separate rulebook doesn't make sense for that. Scion kinda does an end-run on that by saying that it's not a separate rulebook, it's actually now a game about playing almost-regular dudes is a world with mythological beings. It doesn't really matter if you're actually a scion or not at Origins level (you can be some non-scion satyr if you want), because the concept of children of the gods is just a background detail that gives you a reason to be a better-than-human human. At least, unless you actually want to go play Hero, in which case Scion's focus presumably returns to scions.

>>49641316
Not a weeb per se, but judging by some gems from his twitter account and the stuff he writes for Chronicles of Darkness he's a definite japanophile.

>>49638227
>it's not clear how it will work
Yes it is.
"Add the Hero template".
You've literally been told this by both the developers and the person who's playtesting.
The entire point of the Tier system is that you're primarily shifting target numbers on the dice, as opposed to putting more dots on the page. Although I think Origins and Hero are the same Tier, Heroes just get Callings and Knacks.

The character creation chapter in Hero will be exactly the same as the character creation chapters in, say, Vampire or Werewolf.

>>49637819
>>49640032
>1) Scion is a game about being scions, halfblooded children of gods and mortals getting swept up in the complicated lives of their divine parents while dealing with their own Fate
The problem with people who complain about Origins is that Origins is still exactly all of that. You're still extraordinary mortals.
Also, it's unlikely that it's "only 50 pages" of necessary information in Origins, which is full character creation, rules descriptions, and setting. All of that was some 200 pages for the 1e World of Darkness core rulebook. Origins is not a book solely about playing kitsunes and so on. It's about creating the lowest level of your Scion's dramatic life. (Nevermind that Kitsunes and werewolves CAN BE Scions).

>>49641855
>Pugmire and Cavaliers of Mars aren't planned that way, as far as I know. It makes sense with WoD and Trinity to have a separate rulebook, because each of them modifies the core system in big ways depending on your selection of splat (Werewolf is different from Vampire, Adventure! from Aberrant).
Yeah, read that last part again.

>It makes sense with WoD and Trinity to have a separate rulebook, because each of them modifies the core system in big ways depending on your selection of splat (Werewolf is different from Vampire, Adventure! from Aberrant).

Now think about it. Real... hard... and you just might see what they're probably going to do with this setting.

>Meanwhile, Scion is more like Pugmire and Cavaliers in that you go in with a set scope and place in the universe.
I absolutely disagree. In fact, the game disagrees.

Scion 1st Edition has three scopes. And each core book examines each scope. Hero is for the scope that relatively mortal beings will have. Demigod is for the scope that semi-immortal beings that have had an introduction into the deeper aspects of divinity might have. God is for the scope of gods, plain and simple.

Yes, the 1st Edition of Scion did only focus on the life and adventures of divine children. But the concept of a living world of myth and legend is far more diverse than the gods and their kids. And it would be a total shame and injustice if the only thing they ever did with this cool concept of a world of myth was to focus solely on the immortals with daddy issues that exist in it.

>>49641826
>Man, I want to know what's going on in Exalted now.

In short? It's a clusterfuck.

>>49642069
I'm a backer of 3E, and I've been pretty pissed about how little info they've been giving.

Can you give me a brief rundown, or link me to one, please?

>>49641476
>>49641476
>>49641631
>Who the fuck ever wanted to play as a pre-visitation Scion?
Me, motherfucker.
They're also not normal jackasses. You're a fucking Scion from the second you come squirming out of the birth canal, and even before that when mortal sperm meets divine egg (or vice versa). There's nothing regular about you, and it's not simply Fate nudging your success. You're not fucking Captain America yet, but you're still more than the mortal peers that surround you.

Nevermind that having rules for mortals is pretty fucking useful in any game where you have mortals as recurring characters.

>>49641818
It is racist and sexist. It's literally all about being creepy and obsessing over female anime characters, and the term comes from making fun of the way someone in Lucky Star pronounced "My wife".
But he's still insufferable.

He's since said that he was specifically talking about Chris-chan types who allegedly hang around malls and beg Japanese women to go out with them and make Expats like him look bad.
But I think that story is bullshit

>>49642087
>making fun of the way someone in Lucky Star pronounced "My wife".
Get out, newfag.

>>49642087
>Nevermind that having rules for mortals is pretty fucking useful in any game where you have mortals as recurring characters.

You're not going to have mortals as recurring characters in a game about motherfucking GODS. Everybody of any importance at all is going to be a scion or some other kind of supernatural.

>>49642087
>It is racist and sexist.

You are racist and sexist.

>>49642087
Waifu is our internet heritage and culture. You have to respect it.

>>49641687

>But this post where I say that out of nowhere totally isn't baiting

I see you learned irony from the Morissette School, Aspel.

>>49642142
To be fair, when we played Hero 1e, mortals were there all the time.

Thank goodness the game gave us rules for mortals, along with everything else at that tier of play, without needing a separate book to tell me how to stat out Sheila the Accountant and Bill the Cop. I could just use the basic mortal statblock and carry on with the actual exciting parts of Scion.

>>49642087

>term comes from making fun of the way someone in Lucky Star pronounced "My wife"

It was Azumanga Daioh, the Lucky Star aspect came later when "Konata is My Wife" shirts became popular among the fandom. We've been over this.

>>49642087
Is "ore no yome" racist? It's the same shit in nipspeak

>>49637034
Hey Anon see these posts?

>>49641826
>>49641977
>>49642006
>>49642087

That's all Aspel. Once you've seen enough posts you'll be able recognize him instinctively.

>>49642184
>It was Azumanga Daioh, the Lucky Star aspect came later
I'm sorry, I don't know the difference between your Chinese children's cartoons.

>>49642199
>Is [this thing that's not making fun of the way foreigners pronounce English words] racist?
No.

>>49642207
3/4
Pretty good, but you don't win the giant stuffed kitsune.

>>49642325
If you must know, the Japanese make fun of their Engrish too. Also our terrible Japanese. This is the internet. If you're silly, you get made fun of.

>>49642362
>Also our terrible Japanese
Well no shit, the Japanese are pretty fucking racist.

>>49642403
I think every culture makes fun of anyone who can't speak their language correctly, dude. Just sayin

>>49641977
>The problem with people who complain about Origins is that Origins is still exactly all of that. You're still extraordinary mortals.

The problem with people who defend Origins is that they don't accept that nobody wants to play as characters who are weaker than the starting characters of the previous edition - or, more to the point, nobody wants to pay for a whole extra book they didn't ask for just to get to the part they wanted.

It's like if newest D&D allowed you to start as a level 0 Peasant before you become a Level 1 anything, and the PHB was split in two books where the first book is just for level 0 characters, but also contained all the resolution mechanics to stop people from only buying the second book with all the real levels. It's an obvious cash grab. The only purpose of it is to force people to by an extra book to get what they used to get by just buying the Hero book..

>>49642424
>nobody
You keep using that word, but given that multiple people in this thread have contradicted it, it clearly does not mean what you think it means.

Your analogy is grasping at slightly fewer straws than usual though, so at least you're improving at that.

>>49634275
yes

>>49642424
>The problem with people who defend Origins is that they don't accept that nobody wants to play as characters who are weaker than the starting characters of the previous edition
No, the problem is that asshats like you don't know what the fuck the word "nobody" means, and you get butthurt when you piss off the people you keep calling "nobody", and they respond in kind.

>>49642325

>I'm sorry, I don't know the difference between your Chinese children's cartoons.

You really should, if you're going to make a proper criticism of a problematic fandom term. That way you are able to give weight to the criticism, and you don't open yourself up to an easy criticism of your argument.

>He's since said that he was specifically talking about Chris-chan types who allegedly hang around malls and beg Japanese women to go out with them and make Expats like him look bad.
>But I think that story is bullshit

But of course, you don't actually care about the argument, and you don't even believe the context of the person who started the whole thing. I doubt you actually have any actual thoughts and opinions on anything, really. You're an empty shell of a human being, only here for the arguments and occasional praise for your rough drafts.

>>49642424
I accept it, I just don't care. It's annoying, but it's not the fucking bloody murder blasphemy evil rip off you're making it out to be.
You can keep on with shitty analogies all you want, but they're still going to be shitty analogies.

It's nothing like D&D's corebook only being 0 level Peasants, so fucking stop acting like it is. You being irrationally whiny makes it EASIER to dismiss you. If you were a rational adult, I would find your complaints much more meaningful. But instead you keep coming up with bullshit analogies that only serve to highlight how little you understand the set up.

In fact, here, I will give you a fucking analogy that works:
It's like if Dungeons & Dragons had all the rules and setting in one book (what each roll does, when to call for rolls, "what is a roleplaying game?", different factions, the different races, everything you'd normally find in a DMG) and rules for making classless first level characters. Then had a second book for playing characters level 2 through 10 ("Heroic" tier in 4e) with all of the classes that would be found in the various Player's Handbooks. Then released another book for 11th through 20th levels with the same things.

Except in this analogy there are also *new* classes in the book that's supposed to only be for 11th through 20th level.
But you sure don't seem to be bitching "they're making me buy Demigod and God for XYZ pantheon when I only want to play Hero games!"

Half the reason the core rules are being moved out of Hero is because Hero is going to be fucking filled with Pantheons and powers.

Nevermind that just as >>49642493 points out, it's not "nobody" who asked for Origins. It's just that YOU don't want it.

>>49642631
>ITP: A lack of irony or self-awareness

>>49642424
>It's like if newest D&D allowed you to start as a level 0 Peasant before you become a Level 1 anything, and the PHB was split in two books where the first book is just for level 0 characters, but also contained all the resolution mechanics to stop people from only buying the second book with all the real levels. It's an obvious cash grab. The only purpose of it is to force people to by an extra book to get what they used to get by just buying the Hero book..
Actually, it's more like if the 1st Edition of D&D left out levels 1-3 (because it was originally designed as a high-powered game), and they decided with the 2nd Edition to make levels 1-3 playable.

But then some assholes came around and said "nobody cares about play at level 1-3. D&D starts at 4. Why would you make another book for something nobody wants?"

And then some people come forward and say "hey, we want that book! I used to make up rules for levels 1-3 all the time for my group! I'd love it if there were official rules for levels 1-3!!!"

And then those assholes go "nope, can't think of anyone who wants this book for levels 1-3. Not a single person. Clearly it's unwanted. You should get rid of it."

See why we're annoyed yet?

>>49642493
>>49642605

I said,
>nobody wants to pay for a whole extra book they didn't ask for just to get to the part they wanted.
and I'm pretty sure literally nobody wants that. Maybe you're fucking hyped for the chance to play some underpowered schmuck. Doesn't matter. It's still absolutely, objectively wrong to force people to buy that book if they want to play as Scions. It's a scummy tactic, nothing but a cash grab. Why do you defend it?

>>49642325
>but you don't win the giant stuffed kitsune.
But then how can he touch the fluffy tail up to nine times?

>>49642695
>and I'm pretty sure literally nobody wants that. Maybe you're fucking hyped for the chance to play some underpowered schmuck. Doesn't matter. It's still absolutely, objectively wrong to force people to buy that book if they want to play as Scions. It's a scummy tactic, nothing but a cash grab. Why do you defend it?
You're right. Demigod and Hero are clearly cashgrabs to steal from people who want to play God.

What terrible monsters they are. Let us all boo them.

>>49642651
>it's not "nobody" who asked for Origins

Nobody asked to be forced to buy Origins. Let me start with Hero, and I will happily ignore that shit book and let you enjoy it as you please.

>>49642631
>using "waifu" to refer to real Japanese women, or real women of any kind
Well that's *already* not using the term properly.

>>49642694

None of that is a valid defense for not including character creation rules in Hero.

>>49642763
>None of that is a valid defense for not including character creation rules in Hero.
They are including character creation rules for Heroes in Hero. They've explicitly said so. Just as they included rules for creating Demigod or God characters in Demigod and God of 1st Edition.

You need to loosen your tinfoil hat. It's cutting off your blood supply.

>>49642727

Do you think you're making an argument of some kind? Why should Hero not come with chargen rules?

>>49642809
>Do you think you're making an argument of some kind? Why should Hero not come with chargen rules?
Have you forgotten that there was character creation rules for starting off more powerful in Demigod and God?

Are you high?

>>49642809
>>49642763
BECAUSE HERO IS NOT THE FUCKING COREBOOK.
WHY THE FUCK WOULD YOU START THE CORE RULE BOOK WITH RULES FOR CREATING CHARACTERS THAT ARE NOT THE CORE?

And don't give me this fucking bullshit that Hero should be core. That is YOUR OPINION. IT IS NOT SOMETHING THAT MANY OF THE PEOPLE TELLING YOU TO SHUT THE FUCK UP are in agreement on.

>>49642839
>And don't give me this fucking bullshit that Hero should be core. That is YOUR OPINION

...And the opinion of the people who made the game, since that's exactly what it was in 1e.

>>49642806
>>49642828

Direct quote from their KS page:
>You must have both Scion: Origin and Scion: Hero in order to play at the Hero level.

So yeah. Tinfoil. They surely wouldn't force us to buy a shitty extra book.

>>49642932
>It was that way in 1e so that's how its supposed to be
That's a pretty shitty argument, kouhai. 1e was hot garbage all around, and 2e is about doing things better.

>>49642962
I wonder if people made complaints like this when nWoD was being rolled out.
"I don't want to play a mortal! Why are they FORCING us to buy a book NOBODY ASKED FOR!?"

>>49642932
>...And the opinion of the people who made the game, since that's exactly what it was in 1e.
By that logic, 2E shouldn't exist, because the people who made the game never made a 2nd Edition.

Also note that they never intended for there to be a Scion Companion, a book on the Yazata, or any of the other shit that now exists. It was only suppose to be three books, and literally nothing else.

I'm glad they changed their minds. You can fuck right off if you disagree, cuz I give no shits and am pretty happy with what I've heard so far.

I'll save my bitching for when they announce something actually terrible, like the return of Untouchable Opponent, or Hera being a turboslut again.

>>49642962
>Character creation is the same thing as rules of play.
You can't be this fucking dumb.

I refuse to believe you are honestly this fucking dumb.

>>49642990
>Hera being a turboslut again.
All of the goddesses are turbosluts. No exceptions.

>>49643081
>All of the goddesses are turbosluts. No exceptions.
Artemis and Hera, fool (though I'm okay with Artemis having a thing for bush).

So in my Raganrok game how should I handle the first session? Should we just in, or should I run a visitation for each player?
>>49643081
Its just a matter of choosing one to blow your divine nut into.

>>49643081
All of the deities are.
I mean, that's kind of the point.
>>49643126
>Artemis
Just because you don't like dicks doesn't mean you can't be a turboslut.

>>Character creation is the same thing as rules of play.
>You can't be this fucking dumb.
He is that dumb, but to be fair the character creation rules in Hero are going to be about as in-depth as they are for WoD. i.e. walking you through the seven or eight steps and telling you what each means, then "add the Hero template" and get a few powers.

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>>49642964
>the problem with 1e Scion was that it was about playing heroic scions. By not being heroic scions at chargen, it's better.

Not that anon, but that argument is fucking abysmal and makes it sound like you're so wrapped around Neall's cock that you can't comprehend anything being wrong with literally any aspect of the game, even though you don't understand anything about it.

>>49643160
>Just because you don't like dicks doesn't mean you can't be a turboslut.
She's a virgin goddess. The only reason I'm kosher with her lezzing out is because of the Greek definition of "virginity".

>>49641292
Do they cost the same to get or is there an increase in price for magic ones?

>>49643126
>>49643192
I subscribe to the version of Artemis that is a huge, bitter, man-hating bitch dyke because that thing with Orion didn't work out.

>>49642979
They did, yes.

Which is part of why the 2e corebooks have the core rules folded in, although this has resulted in a lot of copied mistakes (books not specifying that Mages, Prometheans etc. get WP from sleep because Vampires don't) and missing rules (explosives, etc).

The truncated core rules in 2e's cores are distressingly incomplete.

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>>49643209
Unless they bring in Paizo freelancers it's unlikely that's what the Scion version will be.

>>49643081
Hera is literally the goddess of marriage and sexual fidelity.

>>49643241
>Paizo
It's one of the traditional interpretations of the Artemis myth, usually the ones that portray Apollo as being an overprotective brother.

>>49643081
Did you read the Theoi preview? She's completely loyal to Zeus and extremely mad about that. If there's one god who would be benefited by entering the world in all their glory and allowing mass fatebinding to change their identity, she might. Maybe modern sexual mores will let her embrace divorce or at least relationship therapy with Zeus.

>>49643311
TURBOSLUTS

>>49643238

The worst thing CCP ever did was hold back a proper 2e because of their stillborn MMO. You can trace back so many organizational and design problems from it.

>>49643209
>I subscribe to the version of Artemis that is a huge, bitter, man-hating bitch dyke because that thing with Orion didn't work out.
Nah, I hate that version. It implies that she could hate her brother.

I like to picture her either as a shy girl who freaks at thoughts of sex or the touch of unfamiliar men, but is a total badass when she's knocking her bow; or as an asexual regular person (here comes the shitstorm).

>>49643345
It seem like when CCP murdered White Wolf they didn't know it was primarily a Tabletop company and sold the licenses to the first bidder, then when Paradox came along they thought they where buying the the whole thing including tabletop, with the intent of making there own tabletop stuff, and are now bidding there time till the contract expires.

>>49643191
It's a good thing that in 2e you are playing heroic Scions.
I understand your complaints completely. I'm just aware that they're fucking asinine. You seem wrapped up in this notion that Big-H Hero is the only tier you can be heroic in, and that in Origins you aren't playing Scions.

As has been repeatedly pointed out to you, this is NOT FUCKING TRUE YOU ILLITERATE FUCK.

>>49643192
Artemis is more a lesbian who became a bitter man hating dyke because guys keep trying to creep on her. Orion is just the one dude she could love and then Apollo tricked her into headshotting him. Because she couldn't turn down the challenge of "bet you couldn't shoot your boyfriend in the face"?
I'll admit I just looked it up on Wiki to refresh my memory and I don't really remember any of that shit, and the "Boasted he could kill any animal so Earth made a scorpion to fuck his shit up" version of Orion's death sounds better.

>>49643238
Actually the reason they went back to putting the core rules into the 2e books is because of the CCP meddling. They didn't want to have to rely on everyone using the core rulebook, GMC, and the splat's 2e.
There are a lot of copying errors, though. And unfortunately the 2e corebook doesn't have useful rules like explosions, or creating new Conditions, or even more Conditions (I mean, Pregnancy has been in three books so far). Also no Swarm rules, even though 1e had to reprint those in at least 5 books that I remember!
Also no version of Parkour is the same, and fall damage has no real rules.
That said, I do think that errors aside "truncated rules in the splat, expanded rules in the corebook" is a good compromise, even if they only did it because of executive meddling and tons of corporate fuckery.

But I really don't have a problem with the way Scion 2e is set up, because I think putting the rules and setting into one book with base level character creation is a reasonable option, and a thing I approve of.

>>49643390
>Artemis is more a lesbian who became a bitter man hating dyke because guys keep trying to creep on her. Orion is just the one dude she could love and then Apollo tricked her into headshotting him. Because she couldn't turn down the challenge of "bet you couldn't shoot your boyfriend in the face"?
In some versions, he's another rapist, so it's pretty blurry.

My thing is that I think about the various aspects of the god in order to get what I think their personality might be. So in her case, I emphasize the fact that she's goddess of the hunt and wildlife (which would make her love animals, even if she probably also loves the fuck out of trophy hunting), goddess of childbirth (she might work at a maternity ward, or just be a babysitter), and a goddess of virginity (which means she probably isn't knocking many boots).

To me, that says it has to be someone sweet and kind (gotta be good with animals and kids), and someone who isn't that into sex. That's why I hate the bull-dyke personification... doesn't fit the kindly lover of animals and kids I visualize.

>>49643279
She's not a man hating dyke, and not because things didn't work out with Orion.
She's more misanthropic and hates society, but makes an exception for women, and it was Apollo's fault Orion died.

>>49643311
I don't know why she hates divorce.
Like... bitch, just get one yourself.
Also, I'm surprised no one else said it, but the Hera preview, despite being pretty accurate, is just really sexist. Hera's like a living stereotype of the shitty anti-feminist "I don't want anyone happy" ballbuster wife type.
That's the kind of thing everyone says "OPP would never have the balls to do that".

>>49643389
They didn't murder it. CCP merged with White Wolf and then proceeded to fuck everything up due to incompetence, which is something I've learned CCP is known for among the EVE community.
Also, what contract are you talking about expiring?
You do know that Paradox's White Wolf owns all the licenses, right? They rent out CofD and 20th Anniversary to Onyx Path, same as CCP did. They even worked out that whole "change the name of World of Darkness because we're going to stop calling it the Classic World of Darkness and there's only going to be One World Of Darkness" deal.
Well. "Deal". From the sound of it, it was more "either the name changes or we kill the line".

>>49643494
>I don't know why she hates divorce.
Because she's the Goddess of Marriage.

Do you honestly think Apollo is excited that the Sun will explode one day?

>>49643389
>then when Paradox came along they thought they where buying the the whole thing including tabletop, with the intent of making there own tabletop stuff, and are now bidding there time till the contract expires.
What?

They DID buy the whole thing, including the tabletop. The books got held up last year because OPP suddenly had to draft new licensing contracts with their new overlords, which is why OPP's planned new edition of VtM got shitcanned, because White Wolf Publishing went "nope, now WE'RE publishing a new edition of Vampire, but we'll take half of your ideas (including the post Gehenna thing)".

>>49642932
Except thats wrong. New people are making this game than are making the old game.
Also even if it were the same people that wouldn't make sense, if that was there opinion when they made 1e then its obvious that they changed they're minds since its not how 2e is, so no not even the people making the game think that.

>>49643494
>I don't know why she hates divorce.
She's the goddess of marriage, divorce is a literal attack on one of her things.

>>49643494
>the Hera preview, despite being pretty accurate, is just really sexist. Hera's like a living stereotype of the shitty anti-feminist "I don't want anyone happy" ballbuster wife type.
This may shock you, but the ancient Greeks were pretty sexist.

>>49643494
>They rent out CofD and 20th Anniversary to Onyx Path, same as CCP did.
And Exalted.

OPP owns Scion, Trinity, and anything else that doesn't use Storyteller/Storytelling. They also own shit like Pugmire, but that's obvious since one of their own guys came up with that long after OPP existed and White Wolf stopped coming up with new IPs of their own.

I strongly suspect Ex3 only still uses Storyteller because it had to.

>>49643490
I don't think she likes trophy hunting. She hunts, and loves the thrill of it, but she's always struck me more as the "use every part of the beast" sort.

Me, I like an Artemis who's more of an animalistic "away from society" type. Not necessarily big muscley eat-with-her-hands type, but very much a country girl who hates them city slickers who want to drill for oil and ruin the parks. She's also big on taking lots of naked baths with her girlfriends in what I'm lead to believe is a very hands on or otherwise interesting to watch way. The animals she's got an affinity with are the wild ones, not squirrels and birds and Disney princess things, but wolves and stags. She's also very vindictive, and has no problems killing. I mean, she's turned people into stags and had her hounds chase them and tear them to pieces. For spying on her bathing.
She's not exactly a super nice person, and while she may not like men, I don't see someone who's a Granola Girl hunter to shun sexual pleasure.

Also, I now want to be a Scion of Artemis who's mortal parent was a woman who felt what it was like to be a hart one night at the club and woke up with morning sickness a few weeks later.

>>49643522
>>49643564
Hey, Divorce is just another aspect of marriage. Better to have a bad marriage end than keep going.
If Apollo hated the sun as much as Hera hates marriage, I'd expect him to love the night breeze.

>>49643577
>That's the kind of thing everyone says "OPP would never have the balls to do that".

>>49643614
>OPP owns Scion, Trinity, and anything else that doesn't use Storyteller/Storytelling.
They still own the original Scion and Trinity. The reason they're making Storypath (Sardonyx was so much cooler) is because they want to be extra certain in case anything with CCP (or now Paradox) falls through. They don't want to get in trouble for using the same mechanical terminology.

Also, you listed shit I forgot, but you forgot OPP has Cavaliers of Mars :V

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>>49643390
>I understand your complaints completely. I'm just aware that they're fucking asinine. You seem wrapped up in this notion that Big-H Hero is the only tier you can be heroic in, and that in Origins you aren't playing Scions.
>As has been repeatedly pointed out to you, this is NOT FUCKING TRUE YOU ILLITERATE FUCK.

Not that anon (or anons, from the post times and structures it looks like a few different people disagreeing with you), but you're really missing what THEY are repeatedly pointing out to YOU.

They say they're not playing scions. You say yes they are, it's a book called Scion Origins, of course you're playing scions.

Then they make the same argument that has literally been happening for 3+ threads. Though the game is called Scion, they are comparing it to 1e Scion. In 1e, there was a bunch of very specific things that made you scions. You had received your Visitation, you were given boons and access to purviews, you got Fatebound, and off you went. When they look at Origins, they see characters without boons, without purview powers, without a Visitation. All Origins characters have going for them is a couple of shitty knacks to separate them from the herd of mortals.

You guys are using two different definitions of Scion. They are using the definition from 1e, where being a Scion was defined by your relationship with your divine parent. You're using the 2e version, where being a Scion is "Your mom got fucked by Thor."

I can't tell if you're the illiterate one because you can't read what they're saying and internalize it, or if Aspel is supposed to be a warning sign that you are an aspie and people need to not bother trying to explain things without a chart of faces to tell you about their emotions so you can understand human speech.

>>49643676
Was Cavaliers of Mars something WW owned? I thought that was Rose Bailey's baby, and is literally just a D&D setting.

>>49643692
>All Origins characters have going for them is a couple of shitty knacks to separate them from the herd of mortals.

You realize Origins includes people like actual factual sorcerers, right? And werewolves?

Pretty much any WoD splat is a valid Origins-tier character.

>>49643676
>I don't think she likes trophy hunting. She hunts, and loves the thrill of it, but she's always struck me more as the "use every part of the beast" sort.
Actually a lot of trophy hunters do that.

It's a false understanding that people assume all of them just waste the body. The difference between a trophy hunter and regular hunter is that the trophy hunter travels the world and looks for the challenging hunt.

Sure they take trophies, but not all of them are mounted heads or taxidermied bodies. My family keeps a piece of antler from everything we kill (and eat or use pretty much everything else).

>Hey, Divorce is just another aspect of marriage. Better to have a bad marriage end than keep going.
But she's also the goddess of fidelity.

For frame of reference, her greatest act of defiance against her husband was when she masturbated and gave birth to Hephaestus as a result.

>>49643727
>For frame of reference, her greatest act of defiance against her husband was when she masturbated and gave birth to Hephaestus as a result
Also trying to kill Hercules.

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>>49643676
>Divorce is just another aspect of marriage. Better to have a bad marriage end than keep going.

That's like saying, "Starving to death is just another aspect of eating. Better to not eat any food at all than to eat something you don't like the taste of."

Hera likes the good aspects of marriage -the solidarity, the communion between souls, raising a family and having a home- and works against the negative aspects. She doesn't cut and run from her marriage because it's hard, she keeps going and trying to improve Zeus (up to and including trapping him in a net until he promises to be a better ruler, because having good morals as a king is intertwined with classic ideals of a good husband).

pic related, wife who is too good for her husband but keeps going with the marriage anyways

>>49643706
>is literally just a D&D setting.
Are you thinking of Scarred Lands? That's literally a d20 setting, while Cavaliers is pretty much Edgar Rice Burroughs.

>>49643746
>Also trying to kill Hercules.
Nah. She's a super-bitch to his extramarital kids, and some of her own (she's the goddess of marriage, not good parenting). She threw Hephaestus off a cliff, tried to stop Leto from giving birth to Artemis and Apollo by making it impossible to give birth anywhere in existence, tricked Dionysus' mom into killing herself, tortured Io and transformed Lamia into a monster.

Bitch has some serious jealousy issues.

>>49643692
If you're going to call people an aspie and say how they need help understanding things, it would help if you weren't completely ignorant and missing the point yourself.

I know what he means. He's an idiot, and he's not correct. He's not really even correct in 1e, it's just that you didn't play out that part. You were still a Scion in 1e before your Visitation. "your mom fucked Thor" made you a Scion.

>>49643706
Scarred Lands is a D&D setting. Cavaliers of Mars is a different thing that's basically John Carter the RPG. It's using it's own system, unrelated to Storyteller. White Wolf doesn't own it, and it is Rose's game, but it's being published by Onyx Path, which is what I meant.

>>49643727
Trophy hunters hunt for the trophy, and generally want to mount the head on their wall or stuff it. When I say "use every part", I mean for practical purposes, like utensils or weaponry.
If you're hunting to eat, you're not really a trophy hunter, you're just a hunter who keeps trophies.

>>49643727
>For frame of reference, her greatest act of defiance against her husband was when she masturbated and gave birth to Hephaestus as a result.
I cannot say I've heard of this story. Wikipedia just mentions she gave birth to him on her own, then was disgusted with him and tossed him out (she also apparently fucked(?) a head of lettuce and gave birth to Hebe?
Also, what keeps her locked into her roles anyway?
Also this
>Hera was also worshipped as a virgin: there was a tradition in Stymphalia in Arcadia that there had been a triple shrine to Hera the Girl (Παις [Pais]), the Adult Woman (Τελεια [Teleia]), and the Separated (Χήρη [Chḗrē] 'Widowed' or 'Divorced').[24] In the region around Argos, the temple of Hera in Hermione near Argos was to Hera the Virgin.[25] At the spring of Kanathos, close to Nauplia, Hera renewed her virginity annually, in rites that were not to be spoken of (arrheton).[26] The Female figure, showing her "Moon" over the lake is also appropriate, as Hebe, Hera, and Hecate; new moon, full moon, and old moon in that order and otherwise personified as the Virgin of spring, The Mother of Summer, and the destroying Crone of Autumn.[27][28]

>>49643764
That's a shitty analogy.
Also, her efforts to "improve" Zeus are a working example of how domestic abuse is often reciprocal.
She'd be better off getting a divorce and being single for a while. Plenty of other fish in the sea.
Actually, that kind of sounds like a great Scion campaign.

>Pic related
No idea what that is. I thought their weird smiles were a reaction image.

>>49643952
>Trophy hunters hunt for the trophy, and generally want to mount the head on their wall or stuff it.
Sort of. Trophy hunting is any recreational hunting, as contrasted from survival hunting. But again, that does not mean the whole body is the trophy (as I mentioned before, my family takes a piece of antler or a tooth, nothing more, as a trophy).

Some people do that full-body bullshit. Many trophy hunters consider them dicks.

>I cannot say I've heard of this story. Wikipedia just mentions she gave birth to him on her own, then was disgusted with him and tossed him out (she also apparently fucked(?) a head of lettuce and gave birth to Hebe?
Hephaestus was the product of her getting fed up with Zeus having so many kids without her. She essentially said "fine, I'll see how he likes it when I have a kid without HIM".

Then she hated it and tossed it off a cliff, cuz she a bitch.

>Also, what keeps her locked into her roles anyway?
I think of her as a tragic goddess. She's a powerful woman bound into marriage with her youngest brother, and she has spent an eternity trying to make it work as the goddess of marriage while he fucks everything with a pulse because he's the god of virility.

I can see why people think that sucks, but I love Heracles specifically because he was a tragic hero.

>>49644137
Sorry, forgot to reference >>49644004 for my last two responses.

>>49643793
>>49643952
I think I conflated Cavaliers of Mars with Scarred Lands, yeah.

>>49643952
>Trophy hunters hunt for the trophy, and generally want to mount the head on their wall or stuff it. When I say "use every part", I mean for practical purposes, like utensils or weaponry.
So it's wasting the animal if you don't eat the face right off the skull, even if you're using every other part for meat or tools or materials?

Originsfag, you are clearly not going to convince Anti-Originsfag that the introduction of that book is anything less than a slight against the very integrity of the gaming industry.

Anti-Originsfag, you are likewise clearly not going to convince Originsfag that it's a shit move.

Knowing this, can we perhaps agree to table this discussion for now? Nobody is getting anywhere and everybody involved is just talking past each other.

>>49644197
No. This is 4chan.

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>>49643952
Jesus fuck, you literally can't understand even when it's laid out by a third party.

He is saying Scion, the game, starts when your scion, the character, becomes a full scion after his visitation. Before that, the character is not a real scion, because they lack the quintessential parts of being a scion.

Let me give you one more analogy, partly because it might help but mostly because I know you can't understand analogies and it'll give you something to sperg out about. Let's say OPP made a game called Soldier, about being soldiers. Then they made another game, Soldier 2e, and announced a book called Soldier: Origins. In Soldier: Origins, you play the life of a soldier before he becomes a soldier- you join the rifle club at school, you're part of the Cadets, you work on your physical fitness, you go through basic training. Once you do all that, you are told to move on to the next book (Soldier: Grunt), where you play as a deployed soldier. This makes anons who were big fans of Soldier 1e angry because they see the goalposts as having moved. They play Soldier to be soldiers. They don't want to be cadets or in boot camp -there was an optional mechanic for flashbacks to that in Soldier 1e, and that was as much as they wanted. They want to play as full deployed soldiers, with the real service rifle and the real deployment and the real bathroom buddy checking their piss for hydration. Having someone say, "Well technically you were a soldier in cadets and boot camp," doesn't do anything for them, because there are things they expect from Soldier and Soldier: Origins doesn't deliver them. It's technically right, and technically you do a lot of similar things, but the big difference are more important to them than the small similarities.

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>>49644197
I wouldn't mind if they disagreed, but at this point it must be wilful ignorance to not understand what's being said, while still insisting that they understand and the people who disagree must be illiterate.

>>49644228
>He is saying Scion, the game, starts when your scion, the character, becomes a full scion after his visitation. Before that, the character is not a real scion, because they lack the quintessential parts of being a scion.
That's bullshit, and now I'ma tell you why.

"Scion" literally means descendant or child. The game Scion is about being the child of a god. Even before you are visited, you are still the child of a god. That makes you a scion.

That you aren't a heroic or divine scion does not mean you're a regular mortal. You're still a scion, and nothing is going to change that.

So your "soldier" analogy is utter shit. "Soldier" is a profession you train for. "Scion" is a position you are born to.

>>49643706

OPP don't own Cavaliers. They license it from Rose. They licence Pugmire from Eddy's company, too.

Scion and the Trinity games are the only ones they fully own themselves. Even Scarred Lands is a joint venture with Nocturnal.

>>49644331
Maybe I can just do that thing where I link posts already in the thread for you to reread, then you link posts for me to reread, and /scg/ dies the painful death it deserves of endless self-referential spam.>>49643692
>You guys are using two different definitions of Scion. They are using the definition from 1e, where being a Scion was defined by your relationship with your divine parent. You're using the 2e version, where being a Scion is "Your mom got fucked by Thor."

>>49644137
I meant I'd never heard the masturbation part.

I also don't see WHY she's bound as the Goddess of Marriage, is the issue.

>>49644187
>Not eating the face
That's a delicacy.

>>49643081
To be fair, when you're fighting giant monsters and having a kid gives you a super powered child to fight these monsters with, sleeping around kind of makes sense

>>49644484
a slutty justification if I've ever seen one.

>>49644469
>I also don't see WHY she's bound as the Goddess of Marriage, is the issue.

It's kind of a thing in Scion that gods "crystallize," becoming more and more bound into their legend, steadily losing their ability to really change who they are like mortals can.

>>49644274
>>49644228
>Jesus fuck, you literally can't understand even when it's laid out by a third party.
Being a third party doesn't mean you understand what the fuck you're talking about. You clearly don't.

You are literally wrong about how the game functions, both 2e and the original. Your analogy--just as with the other persons, though I'm expecting you might be he same--is ignorant and nonsensical. You are playing a fucking Scion even at Origins. You are playing the 1e definition of Scion. In 1e, a Scion was not a Scion only post-Visitation. A Scion was not only exceptional post-Visitation.

Scions are Scions from conception to death. And considering the posibility of Apotheosis, death isn't even certain.

What he doesn't like is that that corebook of the game is not the level of the game he wants to play. That's fine. I get that he's mad that he has to buy a book for a level of play he doesn't want, instead of having it in a single volume.
But the level of bitching is unwarranted and most of it unreasonable. All of his analogies are about being short changed or cheated or otherwise betrayed. All because things are different now. If they were all going to stay the same, there wouldn't be a point in a second edition to begin with.

Not to mention I'm pretty sure this is the same guy bitching that the mechanics and settings are different as well.

>>49644331
Not to mention that Scions are always going to be more exceptional than a mortal.

>>49644416
Linking a post that's ignorant doesn't help your argument. It just shows off how little you understand. But, hey, lemme try the same thing! >>49643952
>You were still a Scion in 1e before your Visitation. "your mom fucked Thor" made you a Scion.

>>49644504
The best kind of justification.

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>>49644224
Oh. Right.

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Seriously I love Coyote
http://www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1056

Man, OPP and it's products are such a mixed bag for me right now. Requiem and Forsaken 2E are great, and Demon is fucking fantastic. On the other hand, Beast was pure, unmitigated shite, Mage 2E has mechanics that simply don't click for me at all, Promethean 2E had several tonal and mechanical departures that just killed it for me, I don't agree at all with a lot of things Hill is doing with Changeling 2E, the system they're relaunching Scion and Trinity under is decidedly not for me, and Exalted 3E... well Exalted 3E is an utter fucking shitshow.
Actually, looking at what I just typed, my "bag" seems weighted with decidedly more negatives than positives. *sigh* I just want games that I can, mostly, unreservedly love.

>>49645043
Beast is seriously not that bad. I have no idea what you'd dislike about Mage or Promethean, though. They're incredible improvements on otherwise good games. I also understand people have problems with the Changeling... changes, but I don't get why people hate them. Though that might be better served for the /wodg/

>>49645043

>I just want games that I can, mostly, unreservedly love.

There's always GURPS. GURPS will never let you down.

>>49645107
GURPS is a let down. It was my first system and it let me down.

>>49645043
Try F.A.T.A.L

>>49645140

No, anon, you let GURPS down. But it's OK, GURPS has a patient and forgiving heart. One day you will understand.

>>49645084
Nigga, I said that Mage 2E has mechanics that simply don't click for *ME*, I said Promethean 2E has several tonal and mechanical departures that just killed it for *ME*. I'm sure a great many people play and enjoy them as they are, but *I* just happen to not be one of them(and since I'm forever GM, my group will just have to cope). And Beast, ugh, no, just no.

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>>49645253
Don't bother. /scg/ is the thread where people can't accept personal differences in taste, and assume anyone who says something they don't like is a samefag who just doesn't understand.

>>49645249
>GURPS isn't mad, just disappointed
Ouch. Too close.

>>49645315
>>49645253
>I have no idea what you'd dislike about Mage or Promethean
I didn't say anything that could even remotely be construed as "these games are wonderful and you are objectively wrong if you think you dislike them".

>>49645253

Forget it, Jake, it's Aspel.

>>49645084
>I have no idea what you'd dislike about Mage

If he's anything like me, the sheer fucking headache that is 2nd Ed's Time Arcana is probably one of the big ones.

>>49644416
>Oh shit, I made a dumb point with that "soldier" analogy. I'd better backpedal.
No thanks. Even the 1E definition of Scion is exactly what I said. You are the child of a god, plain and simple. It even states that there are scions that have not been visited. If you don't become a scion until your visitation, that would be utter bullshit.

Hell, if anything, the opposite is true. The 1st Edition definition is "child or descendant". In 2nd Edition, you can be from other origin types besides that, so being a child of a god is no longer required.

But you wouldn't admit that the definition has expanded, because it doesn't fit your narrative.

>>49645207
Truely unmatched in perfection.

>>49645560
>Time travel is confusing
Eh.

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>>49645743
You're missing the distinction that is being drawn by others, and that I tried to explain to you.

You say 'scion' is something that happens at birth, and is defined solely by genetics (or being some random magic shit who becomes a scion somehow, though mythologically a lot of those were children of gods or gods themselves and in any case that's a whole different can of worms), so any time you are a scion you can say you're playing Scion. They are saying that Scion, the game, is about more than that. 1e does say that a scion is the child of a god and mortal. However, being a Scion character is defined by what happens at Visitation. Literally everything special about a Scion in 1e happened because of the Visitation. Not just Birthrights and Boons, mind you, but the basic stuff that makes you 'more than mortal'.
>Epic Attributes are innate traits that manifest almost immediately after a Scion’s Visitation, as the latent ichor in his blood wreaks sudden, dramatic changes on his physiology. Knacks are quirks of the Epic Attributes that manifest in different Scions with differing frequency.
pg 99

2e is actually changing the canon by saying that scions pre-Visitation have any knacks at all. By 1e fluff, all that they have is a Calling and a natural (but not supernatural) ability to be successful.

You call it starting at a different power level, they call it starting as actual scions. You say you want to play boot camp, they say they want to actually be soldiers, and being things which are a lot like soldiers but don't have the abilities or role in the world as soldiers is not the same. You keep asking for one more (You), and I'll oblige this last time before I go and find someone who doesn't repeat himself like a broken record because he doesn't like what he hears.

>>49646023
>1e does say that a scion is the child of a god and mortal. However, being a Scion character is defined by what happens at Visitation. Literally everything special about a Scion in 1e happened because of the Visitation. Not just Birthrights and Boons, mind you, but the basic stuff that makes you 'more than mortal'.
That's not true. First off, a Scion's legend goes from 1 to 2 after visitation. Only creatures of legend have a legend score. Scions are born with one.

>By 1e fluff, all that they have is a Calling and a natural (but not supernatural) ability to be successful.
And a dot of legend, which is VERY supernatural. Not to mention that divine parents generally have something or someone watch over their children (the story in Hero had ravens watching the main character; but you probably don't think that story is canon because it deals with someone before and during their visitation... and he couldn't be special during those parts, could he?).

But yeah, keep spinning that bullshit.

>>49646023
>>49646129
I really think it's in the middle. While it's true that a Scion doesn't get their birthrights (most of their magic powers) or awaken their ichor (most of their physical powers and knacks) until they have a Visitation, there's a heavy implication that they're already extraordinary people before that. You know how every so often you hear a story about some teenage whiz-kid that's going to college early, or plays three sports and is honor roll? I imagine that's what an unawakened Scion is like. Scratching the surface of their latent powers without realizing it.

It's worth noting, too, that they specifically provide an example of a Scion who was awakened remotely by reading a letter from her divine parent informing her of her lineage, so it can't be all about being in a divine presence that awakens them.

>>49645043
>Promethean 2E had several tonal and mechanical departures that just killed it for me
Such as? I haven't properly digested Promethean 2E and I'm curious.

>>49646129
>That's not true. First off, a Scion's legend goes from 1 to 2 after visitation. Only creatures of legend have a legend score. Scions are born with one.

Source? All it says about starting Legend is that scion characters have 2 to begin play with, not when they get it.

And that story IS his Visitation, brainless. It's starts right off the bat with Eric getting his first Boon, the magic algiz ring (technically it starts with his grandfather dying and Eric being a schmuck, but you're going to ignore that part). The ravens show up when Grandpa dies and talk to him, but Eric isn't running around doing anything supernatural before he gets the ring because he has no special powers then, and once he gets it he begins his Visitation. Amazingly, this story follows epic cycle logic; instead of Thor showing up for a chat with a wagonload of stuff, he puts a quest in front of Eric and challenges him to succeed to claim his Birthright.

>>49646245
The whiz kid idea is nice, but it's not really supported as the young scions being anything extraordinary (in the magical sense). Eric is just a high school schmuck, Horace was a farm boy, Donnie was a spoiled rich kid who was good with ladies, Tigrillo was a doctor (he was valedictorian, but "From a poor family and with five siblings, he knew he was going to have to work hard to succeed."), Yukiko was a good photographer and athlete, and Brigitte had a natural talent for embalming. Again, they had some natural skill following their Calling, but they weren't supernaturally good, or even so amazing that other people would notice most of the time.

And Visitation isn't about being in a divine presence, exactly. In all the stories, it only happens a couple of times that they actually meet their parents face to face. I can't remember the term, but a lot of the time it happens through an intermediary (like the Ravens with Eric) or through other esoteric means like the letter.

>>49646377
>Horace was a farm boy
Wasn't Horace some kind of like 20 year veteran Federal Marshall or something? I recall he was a lot older than his peers.

>>49646429
He was 14 when he got his Visitation (getting shot in the head by Seth and subsequently healed, then tasked with vengeance in the names of his fathers).

>Healed and gifted with his Birthrights, Horace prepared for his mission, finishing high school, then trained for a career in law enforcement. Eventually, he served as a US Marshal, and though he quit the service, he still uses his badge and contacts to help the Band he’s formed.

>>49634308
>>49640509
America probably gets a lot of Scions because of the melting pot thing, true. Plus it's just easier for Americans to write and play a game in America.

For the game I'm running, the Yankees have a US-style bureaucracy and post-9/11-style secret agency structure. Any foreign deities wanting to visit have to file tourist visas, which they go along with in part because they know the progeny they spawn are going to be tracked and monitored to keep them safe. When the time comes and they run into something supernatural requiring them to be Visited, the Yankees send in a squad to recover, train, and equip them, and turn them out to adventure within the country in an organized fashion. Basically America becomes a giant Scion nursery - they get to look after their citizens, and the foreign deities get freed up to fight Titans and sire Scions.

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>>49646565
I'm not taking my Birthrights from some gubbmint suit and being told which monsters to smite.

SHALL NOT
H
A
L
L

N
O
T

>>49646377
>And that story IS his Visitation, brainless.
Do you think that's what the phrase "before and during visitation" meant in the post you were responding to?

>The ravens show up when Grandpa dies and talk to him, but Eric isn't running around doing anything supernatural before he gets the ring because he has no special powers then, and once he gets it he begins his Visitation.
Yeah, nothing supernatural. Except, you know, walking and talking with the dead grandpa that showed him where the ring was in the first place.

Holy shit, did you read the story?

>Eric is just a high school schmuck
Eric was a star high school player with prospects of professional play. He was mortal, but not mundane by any means.

>Horace was a farm boy
He received his visitation at 14. Holy fuck, are you gonna present Heracles as an example? "Before his visitation, he was just a fucking infant!" No shit, Sherlock!

>Donnie was a spoiled rich kid who was good with ladies
Dude, he had a sexual history that would make Don Juan impressed. His life would have made a great story even without Aphrodite coming into it.

Again, great example of a character with potential for stories and play.

>Tigrillo was a doctor (he was valedictorian, but "From a poor family and with five siblings, he knew he was going to have to work hard to succeed.")
And no epic story has ever started with a man from simple beginnings who makes something of himself despite adversity, right?

>Yukiko was a good photographer and athlete
Yukiko was the orphan of a single mom in old Japan. That's like being born an albino in Africa... you're set for a life of struggle. That she turned into a great journalist and athlete despite that is the makings of a great story, again with or without a divine parent hopping in.

In almost every example, the person was either already potentially destined for greatness, or so fucking young that it didn't matter. That proves you wrong more than it proves you right.

>get back home after a long day
>New Scion preview, yay maybe I can talk about knacks some now
>They chose literally one of my least favorite callings.

One of the playtest anons here (I think there's three of us or so) and if you don't like Hunter's mechanical options don't worry, I agree completely. There's better ones out there. I like the fluff of the calling, but most of them have some unique stuff besides just enhancement bonuses in specific situations. They have those too, but usually at least one or two real unique ones.

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>>49646626
The Scions in this game didn't either at first. They ended up with Uncle Sam explaining the situation to them and handing out packs of relics that had been left for them by their parents. Dagda scion got a red axe and a bracer, packed up in a fire-axe case that said "In Case Of Titans Break Glass". He took them out, held them up, then promptly dropped them on the floor and told Uncle Sam to piss off. A lot of that first arc's conflict, in fact, was his inability to accept that his carefree life as a ren faire performer was being derailed to being a divine foot soldier.

>>49647008
>They ended up with Uncle Sam explaining the situation to them and handing out packs of relics that had been left for them by their parents
That sounds like a trip

Does celestial promotion seem a little to broadly applicable to anyone? It seems so easy to just give all your allies titles specific to their task, and it wouldn't really even be cheesing the system. If a giant needs slaying it makes sense that you would give a warrior the official title of giant slayer and have them go do their job of slaying giants.

>>49647038
Pretty sure that's the intent, really.

Quick, everyone, think up weird celestial promotions that might be super useful!

>>49647061
Turboslut

>>49647083
Fantastic! I can see that being useful in at least three different ways.

>>49647061
Cupbearer. Only it's applied to women in reference to their cup size.

>>49647083
Hey, that's not a promotion for a lot of people.

>>49647125
>Fantastic! I can see that being useful in at least three different ways.
Anally, orally and vaginally?

>>49647061
Best person in the universe

>>49647544
Fun fact from the playtest: The gods with the most purviews come from the Shen. That isn't saying the most powerful, but it definitely says something about mary sues in literature. Who has more you think: The Yellow Emperor or the Monkey King?

>>49647582
Even more than Odin?

>>49647582
Yellow Emperor, because Monkey King actually listens to that guy. That said, Monkey King probably has purviews Yellow Emperor doesn't have, like he exists in the gaps in Yellow Emperor's repertoire.

>>49647582
Say, which pantheons were in the playtest anyways?

>>49647656
Yes

>>49647658
Congrats, you win a cookie.

>>49647813
All of the core Hero ones, plus mechanics we'll see in Hero and Origins.

>>49647423
>being this third dimensional

Think bigger, anon

>>49646023
>You're missing the distinction that is being drawn by others, and that I tried to explain to you.
No, that's you.

And 2e is changing a lot of canon. That means nothing. Being a Scion is defined by "Being a Scion [the child of at least one (1) deity]". You're the one lusting for (You)s and forcing everyone to repeat themselves because you don't like what you're hearing.

>>49646129
In 2e, I don't think you start with Legend, if I recall what the playtester said, though I may be misremembering. Still, you ARE still more than an average Joe.

>>49646377
>>49646245
>I really think it's in the middle.
That's not the middle, that's what we've been saying. Scions are Scions even before their Visitation. They're extraordinary. Not a mundane kind of extraordinary, either.
And this is only heightened in 2e, where they're playable characters who could be fucking wizards or werewolves or just really exceptional.

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So I have a player right now who has a Scion of Rosie the Riveter. Basically a happy-go-lucky glamazon, merry bruiser sort. Their end goal with her development is that she'll turn into the figure from the Virginia state seal. You know, Sic Semper Tyrannis?

Only problem is that's Virtus, aka Arete. Not just a Dodekatheon, but the embodiment of their Pantheon purview. Which, as much as this could make for some interesting drama subplot (one of the others is a daughter of Hephaestus), it'll be kind of weird to have an Arete that can't -use- Arete, won't it?

One thing I hope 2E provides is ways to actually affect spirits and noncorporeal entities. Apart from the stuff the Celestial Bureaucracy has, not much else in 1E below Demigod (and only then if you were lucky) seemed to have any sort of effect on ghosts and spirits. If they buff up 2E's critters into things like poltergeists and skinwalkers, it might come in handy in having ways to at least be able to damage or contain them in some fashion.

>>49648575
Why is that an issue? Magic purview had spells that basically aped Arete, I never caught flak from the Dodekatheon Scions about it.

>>49647061
>>49647083
>>49647423
I'm remembering the Oglaf comic about the guy who's cursed to be the best at blowjobs.

>>49647582
What about Lugh?

>>49647061
Wearer of Plot Armor

>>49648533
>In 2e, I don't think you start with Legend, if I recall what the playtester said, though I may be misremembering. Still, you ARE still more than an average Joe.
I was talking in 1E. I remember a throwaway passage about Legend 1 being for pre-visitation Scions (possibly on a Legend creature chart somewhere).

I know they don't in this one. I was under the idea that it was Hero 1-4, Demigod 5-8, God 9-12.

>>49642651
They did that, it was called Basic, Expert, Companion, Master, Immortal Dungeons and Dragons

>>49649874

Basic was at least a step above Peasant, though, even if it didn't feel like it sometimes.

>>49646706
>Eric was a star high school player with prospects of professional play. He was mortal, but not mundane by any means.

I hate to break it to you, anon, but playing football well is pretty mundane. Literally thousands of people do it, and I'm pretty sure most of them are not divinely powered. Also, he wasn't a star with professional prospects. The closest the story comes to that is,
> Coach Wooten hollered at him to get his head out of his rear end on the field if he wanted to start Friday nights. Scouts would be watching, Wooten assured him. Scouts didn’t offer scholarships to lollygaggers who couldn’t protect the quarterback.

So atm he may or may not even be a starter, he hasn't had any scholarship offers yet, and he's playing like shit. He may be a good player, but his professional prospects are, "may or may not get a scholarship to play college ball."

Also, real weird that you went off on anon for saying that Horace was a farm boy because he was only 14 and obviously couldn't be doing anything good with his life, while Eric is 16 and obviously not mundane with his small-town high school football skills. Anon didn't say that any of the stories were bad or that the scions were terrible at life, Aspel, he said the opposite. He said that they were naturally gifted and successful in their Calling, but not supernaturally good. Donnie fucks around, but so does Paris Hilton.

Also, you might want to think about Visitation again. The dead grandfather showing up and giving him the ring was the start of the Visitation- it didn't suddenly turn into one when he put the ring on. BTW, that's still not Eric doing supernatural shit- that's supernatural shit being done to him. If someone gets eaten by the Minotaur, that doesn't mean they're magic, it means wrong place at the wrong time. Eric didn't conjure up the spectre of his grandfather to get answers, Granddad showed up on his own to Visit and give Eric the ring.

>The Chinese God's unique purview is all about Chinese internal and external alchemy
>Here for example are a whole bunch of boons about bureaucracy

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>>49651365
That's kind of how it all works, you know.

>>49651365
I think the purview is different from their 'motif'. How it works is that other purviews can be channaled to do basically whatever but you have to do it in a way that lines up with the motif

>>49642651
>It's like if Dungeons & Dragons had all the rules and setting in one book (what each roll does, when to call for rolls, "what is a roleplaying game?", different factions, the different races, everything you'd normally find in a DMG) and rules for making classless first level characters. Then had a second book for playing characters level 2 through 10 ("Heroic" tier in 4e) with all of the classes that would be found in the various Player's Handbooks. Then released another book for 11th through 20th levels with the same things.
That is pretty much exactly how the Dragon Age TTRPG works. Book 1 is level 1-5, book 2 is level 6-10, and book 3 is level 11-20.

>>49651435
What's the power level on that? Because the existence of tiered books isn't what people are talking about. They're talking about core rules and chargen rules being bound up in a book that only covers level 1 characters. If you want to go up even slightly (to the point that you actually go on adventures to dungeons, not just splatting rats in the tavern basement), you need to buy another book.

We have passed the 205k mark!

The hide post function exists for a reason guys

>>49651553
Yazata time now.

>>49651553
>>49651594
Im unfamiliar with them, where is that pantheon from?

>>49651554
Trolling is an art. I hide bait, but if I think someone honestly doesn't understand I want to explain it to them. It's a waste of time, because either they are trolling or they're too dug in for reality to change their mind, but I can't help it.

>>49651647
The Zoroastrian one. Don't know what it looks like in practise.

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>>49651492
The Set 1 Player's Guide only includes 24 Talents (think D&D feats) and 18 Spells in total. These only cover (more or less) the first ability in a chain of four powers you'd expect to get in the Dragon Age: Origins computer game. You also only get four or five of these options total, unless you're a Mage which gets more because Mages are the best class.

The Set 1 Game Master's Guide only has about 20 monsters. This mostly only covers the fodder-tier Genlocks and Hurlocks you kill in droves all game long, crappy skeletons, and giant spiders and rats.

If you compared it to the actual Dragon Age: Origins video game, it's enough material to cover your Origin mission and Ostagar, which is pretty pathetic given that it takes about 4 hours in the CRPG. Actually you couldn't even do Ostagar because the stats for Ogres, the mini-boss you fight at the end of the Ostagar quest, are only in the Set 2 Game Master's Guide.

I would say with confidence that Set 1 almost EXPLICITLY restricts you to splatting rats in a tavern basement. If you want to do anything cool or fight anything awesome the GM has to either (1) make up the stats and mechanics himself or (2) buy Set 2 and Set 3 of the game.

>>49651795
Note to self: Don't play the Dragon Age TTRPG, or if I do then see how many levels I can get up front.

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>>49651905
It's a cautionary tale about splitting your material between too many books. You can tell that they wanted thin, portable volumes (60-80 pages each) and the 3d6 dice model means you can raid a Yahtzee box and play. I think they could have made the PHB 200 pages including everything, and the GMG about 250, and it still would have been alright as a soft-cover. Gamma World 7E is less than 200 pages, 5 by 8 inches across, and has everything you need but dice.

I actually really like the Dragon Age RPG system. If you give the Fighter and Rogue classes a Stamina reserve to match the Mage and some combat maneuvers to mirror spells (and put it all into one set) it'd be my system of choice. But in this day and age, unless you have the D&D logo and prestige you really can't get away with splitting your rules into six books.

>>49650869
So is Origins!

>>49651284
>Anon didn't say that any of the stories were bad or that the scions were terrible at life, Aspel, he said the opposite
That wasn't me.
In a world like Scion, "mundane" exceptional and "not overtly obviously magical" exceptional are not going to be very different from each other.

>>49651492
The problem here is that Origins character aren't "Level 1" (Or Level 0), and Heroes isn't "Level 1 to 4". Treating the Power Stat in a Story* game doesn't work that way.
You can still "go on adventures in dungeons" with Origins, you just won't be punching bears or jotun across the park. Which, I mean, it's not like you were doing at the start of Hero anyway.

>>49651435
>>49651795
I have no problem with this. I much prefer low tier fantasy play, as opposed to level 15 multiclassed D&D bullshit.
>>49652011
>60-80 pages
Jesus, I hope this is paperback, otherwise the cover would be thicker than the book.
>I actually really like the Dragon Age RPG system.
Didn't Wil Wheaton get the company to make a generic version for that Tabletop series?

>>49639798
Not him but what the hell happened?

>>49652407
The line is and has been an epic shit show. I think people who enjoy RPGs just try to work on anything else. The ones who love Exalted in particular are trapped, like an abused housewife who knows if she runs her drunk husband will shoot her.

>>49651284
>I hate to break it to you, anon, but playing football well is pretty mundane.
Again, he's 18 years old. Heracles was an infant at ascension, are you gonna start bitching about that as well?

>Donnie fucks around, but so does Paris Hilton.
And this is a setting where, at least in 1st Edition, a crapton of celebrities were referenced to actually be divine-blooded.

>Also, you might want to think about Visitation again. The dead grandfather showing up and giving him the ring was the start of the Visitation- it didn't suddenly turn into one when he put the ring on.
Dude, you're the fucking moron who said that the visitation didn't start until he got his ring, remember?

>>49646377
The ravens show up when Grandpa dies and talk to him, but Eric isn't running around doing anything supernatural before he gets the ring because he has no special powers then, and once he gets it he begins his Visitation.
>isn't running around doing anything supernatural before he gets the ring because he has no special powers then
>once he gets it he begins his Visitation.
So? Is it after he starts talking to grandpa, or after getting the ring? They have a decent conversation before they even get to the attic.

>If someone gets eaten by the Minotaur, that doesn't mean they're magic, it means wrong place at the wrong time.
Actually, no it doesn't.

At least not in the world of Scion. Because it's a world where Fate exists (with a capital F). Amazing things come to beings with legend, whether they want them to or not.

>>49652407

Exalted is a mess, and the only people who have come close to fixing it are the very definition of "inmates running the asylum". Those are the only people people who care about fixing it at this point.

>>49652011
>I actually really like the Dragon Age RPG system. If you give the Fighter and Rogue classes a Stamina reserve to match the Mage and some combat maneuvers to mirror spells (and put it all into one set) it'd be my system of choice.
How much work would that be?

How do Scions work with virgin gods like Artemis?

>>49652920
>How do Scions work with virgin gods like Artemis?
In the original, virgin goddesses would basically adopt another god's scion. There's a process in which this can happen, but it basically requires the actual parent to give up their claim willfully before the child's visitation.

In the new edition, there are even more options than that. You can be an artificial scion created by the god, or even a god's reincarnation.

>>49652920
There are other ways to make a scion then just regular birth

>>49652970
Not to mention loads of gods have managed to have offspring without having sex.

Like cutting yourself open and bleeding into the sea, or whatever.

>>49652970
I felt that was a bit unsatisfying, since in 1e you needed to be abandoned first.

>>49652920
In 1e, they adopted you, but 2e is a lot more flexible. You can be the child of a God, you can be Chosen because you impressed a God without being a Scion, you can be Created (think Wonder Woman or Galatea), or you could even be a Reincarnation or Avatar of a God in the mortal world.

I don't know what to expect, but I assume there might be different character creation rules for some of them. The last one especially I think someone said won't be around until God.

Personally I'm thinking of making a Scion of Artemis who's mother got knocked up by another woman she met at a club. Don't question it, it's magic.

>>49653260
>I felt that was a bit unsatisfying, since in 1e you needed to be abandoned first.
It's worse than that: you have to be formally abandoned, through a declaration to your pantheon. If your parent doesn't even care enough to do that, other gods can't adopt you at all.

And woe be to you if your god dies. Now you're the scion of a corpse.

>>49653260
>unsatisfying

What, being adopted? I preferred that to 2e's "whatever, scions can come from anything." The need to be a divine child (and the limited way most gods interact with mortals) kept being a scion a special case, instead of asking why there isn't an arms race of Choosing cool mortals and other gods cranking out kids in a forge. The adoption thing also raised some interesting wrinkles -why would your parent formally abandon you? Did they do it knowing that your new parent was in the wings, ready to scoop you up? Did they plan to have to adopted by one god, but someone else got in just before and called dibs? Do you still feel any loyalty or kinship to your blood parent?

>>49652920

In vitro fertilization? basically Artemis was your other mom who left *very* early, quite possibly before you were born, and now needs you to shoulder your burden for the good of the Dodekatheon.

>>49653370
>instead of asking why there isn't an arms race of Choosing cool mortals and other gods cranking out kids in a forge.
Pretty sure that is the case.

>>49653370
>The need to be a divine child (and the limited way most gods interact with mortals) kept being a scion a special case, instead of asking why there isn't an arms race of Choosing cool mortals and other gods cranking out kids in a forge.
Yeah, because that apparently happens all the time, every fucking second.

Gods creating new life is a big thing in myth, the sort of shit that makes an entire story unto itself. By your logic, there's nothing special about Excalibur because "any ol' god can make a pretty sword.

Except that's not how it works, fuckwit. Scions, moreso than artifacts, are grand things of legend.

Besides, you don't have a problem with Zeus pumping out a new scion every couple weeks, do you? Why should it bother you if Hephaestus does something similar?

You know the more I think about it the more i really like the way they handled scaling this time around. Like that hunter knack that gets you +1 enhancement to rolls against a target doesn't need to have a higher power demigod version since once you upgrade to demigod that +1 could become +10 through scaling

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>>49652276
>I have no problem with this. I much prefer low tier fantasy play, as opposed to level 15 multiclassed D&D bullshit.
There's a big difference between 'low fantasy heroes' and 'dirt farmers killing spiders with pointy sticks'. Dragon Age falls into the latter just a LITTLE too much, given how low powered you start out and how crappy the monsters you fight are.

>Didn't Wil Wheaton get the company to make a generic version for that Tabletop series?
Yep, and there's a generic Fantasy AGE core rulebook out there as well. It's basically the Dragon Age RPG books if all 6 books were one volume... and they stripped out all of the lore, backgrounds, and most of the bestiary. Only clocks in at 142 pages, making it barely longer than just Set 1 of the Dragon Age books. I found it to be incredibly disappointing, but at least it lets you go all the way to level 20.

>>49652779
A decent amount. I'd set it up so that base Stamina is something like Willpower + 1d6 for Fighters and Willpower + 5 + 1d6 for Rogues. Instead of Spellpower they could have something like Force, which could be 10 + Willpower + Focus bonus. Instead of casting rolls they'd either make an attack roll or roll 3d6 + Willpower + Focus to resolve. A lot of them could parallel For example, a variant of Heal and Rock Armour.

Rally (2-6 SP, Major Action): You shout a rallying cry to bolster an ally's confidence or your own. Spend 2-6 stamina points and make a DC 10 Maneuver check. If you succeed, for every two stamina spent the target gets back 1d6 Health. You can target yourself with this maneuver.

Unbreakable (3 SP, Major Action): You lower yourself into a defensive stance. You gain an Armour rating equal to half your Willpower, rounded up. This ends if you move, voluntarily or otherwise.

>>49654213
Unbreakable should be noted that it increases Armour, not replaces your Armour value, but otherwise that's the general idea. Give martial characters some tricks up their sleeve so they aren't quite so boring.

>>49654137
>Besides, you don't have a problem with Zeus pumping out a new scion every couple weeks, do you? Why should it bother you if Hephaestus does something similar?

Zeus doesn't do that, though. It only happens when he goes to the mortal world (which is rare) and he has a child with a mortal woman (which even for Zeus has to be less than 100% of the time), the same as with Hephaestus. He can't sit on Olympus and hammer them out in an assembly line, which >>49654053 thinks is happening now (I can't say either way). The children of gods are a big deal in myth, as is creating new life (new mortal life, anyways, gods create monsters at the drop of a hat and now that you can be monsters like kitsune while still being scions...), choosing a mortal as a champion, etc. Myths usually don't involve an arms race between different pantheons. The only reason I can think that they'll bring in why gods aren't doing that is if they come up with some new Fate stuff to explain it away.

Also, and I know this will make you sperg out because different subjective opinion, but I liked the setup for Scions in 1e and the interplay between divine and mortal. You start out as a regular person, but throughout your life you gain more and more divine power and become more and more like the gods, full of power but without the free will of mortals to act, bound by Fate into your role. Trying to deal with that was very interesting, both in character (because nearly every character doesn't like being constrained) and out of character it was a nice change from most RPGs, where power and options rise at an equal rate. You lose that if you were created to be a scion, or you were already a magical creature who was not normal.

>>49654295
>He can't sit on Olympus and hammer them out in an assembly line, which >>49654053 thinks is happening now (I can't say either way).
He still can't. If the creation of artifacts is unique and special, why wouldn't the creation of scions be?

>You lose that if you were created to be a scion, or you were already a magical creature who was not normal.
And you gain a completely different interplay. You will either be a creature with no true origin, who has to come to terms with the fact that he is the product of artifice; and reincarnates have to deal with a legacy that they might not even remember. Imagine what it must be like to be the reincarnation of a god who had many enemies?

Every character option in scion has great potential for stories. Yes, those new story types don't have the same EXACT possibilities as the classic scions from the original game... but they do have possibilities of their own.

>>49654358
>He still can't. If the creation of artifacts is unique and special, why wouldn't the creation of scions be?
Yeah, I honestly suspect that creating or choosing a scion probably can't be done at whim. You'd be more likely to get more Scions by having Zeus incarnate into the world and go around fucking people with broken condoms and waiting 16-20 years.

>>49654358
>Every character option in scion has great potential for stories. Yes, those new story types don't have the same EXACT possibilities as the classic scions from the original game... but they do have possibilities of their own
This. It isn't like Galatea existing means you can't play a born scion and somehow lose the aspects you liked of it. There's juat more options to pick from now.

Sagacious masters: how does one go about identifying posts by Aspel and/or Atamajakki? Could every post I disagree with truly be by one of them? What are their characteristics?

>>49656880
learn to read, dude.

It becomes really easy to spot them.

Aspel does multiquotes, is generally disagreeable.

Atamajakki says the same shit over and over again because he is a sad sack of shit.

>>49657003
I don't even really dislike jakki. I don't get why some people have this visceral response to him. Maybe I'm missing something sometimes

>>49634634
This. Scion 1e was John Chambers unzipping his pants and thrusting his turgid old man rod deep into the ass of the Exalted 2e mechanics. What came of it was NOT pretty.

>>49658026
Don't forget trying to make American Gods but fucking up with some of the most basic stuff of it, like the blatant fake identities being the gods themselves not their kids.

Kitsune preview is up on the KS page. Looks like being a demihuman just consists of access to a few knacks and powers from some callings. I don't know if that means you have to have those specific Callings or if you get them even if your callings are like, Creator-Warrior-Sage or something.

>>49645084
The problem with Beast I've found is that the Beast player in my mixed game is beginning to realize they have no personal agenda to pursue or push for plot points in right now while everyone else does. That splat needs something to DO, especially in a mixed game if they don't want to feel like the vampire's creepy stalker friend or something.

>>49659364

I dig it. Would it be safe to say that Paths are more or less classes?

>>49660306

Paths are more or less Aspects, despite Dave's insistence otherwise.

You even literally invoke them to achieve some narrative change (like a police officer being able to access areas that a normal person couldn't, or just-so-happening to have a useful piece of cop gear on him).

Callings are the closest thing to a class, in that they describe your general role and what you're naturally good at.

>>49660378
>Paths are more or less Aspects, despite Dave's insistence otherwise.

Dave is just in denial that he was instrumental in designing WOD FATE, whether he meant to or not,

So estimated dates are next may for pdf's and next october for solid books right?

>>49653370
Not just being adopted, but the whole "you must be abandoned" part. I like the idea of Adopted Scions. Hell, I like the idea that if your parent doesn't come to you in a reasonable time, someone else could adopt you. That'd be neat.

>>49653759
Or she just knocks up another woman. That's not out of the question.

>>49654295
>Also, and I know this will make you sperg out because different subjective opinion
I feel like you think he's me. I don't care about your opinion unless you start acting like it's everyone's (as several people tell you otherwise) or make ridiculous claims.
Scion 1e's set up was fine. It's not like 2e changes it. It just adds more options, which is especially useful for Gods who don't go out among mortals, and especially don't fuck the opposite sex. If I want to be a Scion of Hel, I had to jump through hoops for that.

>>49657003
Everyone says the same shit over and over again, because you don't listen the first time and we're too stupid to realize you'll never learn.

>>49659946
That is definitely Beast's problem, yes. In Crossover they at least have the "you guys are my ̶F̶a̶m̶i̶l̶y̶ ̶D̶i̶n̶n̶e̶r̶!̶ friends!" aspect. In an only Beast game there's none of that; you're just dudes who hang out together and shoot the shit when you're not off on your own Feeding or getting your rape cave decorated.

So do we have any idea how legend is regained?

>>49660872
Fulfilling your legendary virtue, or spending a scene making sacrifice to your pantheon/divine source.

Wait, how does getting chosen work? How can you compete with godspawn as a regular dude?

>>49661123
Just because you're not a Scion doesn't mean you can't still be exceptional.

>>49661123
Basically a God says, "Hey, this anon here is pretty cool. I'm gonna give anon powers and maybe one day we will bro out."

>>49661137
>>49661123
>>49661178

>"I see you've been hunting vampires with garden stakes and a rubber mallet. I also like to live dangerously."
>Thor

>>49661123
Bootstraps

>>49661189
Gods damn it, now I wished I had that comic page of Thor and Punisher drinking together as Thor gives Punisher life advice.

>>49642142
why not? wouldn it be like american gods? I loved american gods

>>49642142
Uh... yes you are. You know, your family, friends, associates, allies? Hell, worshipers.

>>49642177
We get it, you hate Origins. Cry us a river.

>>49661228
Scion was never, ever close to simulating American Gods. And the second edition is explicitly not American Gods, it's The Wicked + The Divine now.

>>49662509
>Scion was never, ever close to simulating American Gods. And the second edition is explicitly not American Gods, it's The Wicked + The Divine now.
Minus the 2-year time limit.

Personally, I don't think they're scrapping the influences of American Gods, they're just adding more influences. As they should; the mythical urban fantasy genre isn't exactly massive.

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>>49662509
Its both and more. Honestly I don't much like W+D very much, for my comic inspiration I was planning to take more from JiM and Agent of Asgard than anything else.

New thread since we're on the cusp of page 10: >>49662731