EDH/Commander general

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Changed my Muzzio deck into this, thoughts?

I'm just gonna say it
Kaalia is ugly

>>49622483

Why do ugly girls think they can dye their hair like Ronald McDonald and it will make them look less ugly?

>>49622476
If you're going to loop Sharuums better to kill with Bitter Ordeal

>>49622351
My rafiq also tends to get neutered the moment he hits the board or I try to attach/cast protection.

I've learnt to put global protection on the board like ascetiscism or new!Sigarda before casting him, unless I pull real fast sol ring or signet t1-2 shenanigans and get him out on turn 2 or 3.

Truth be told, I can't blame them, I've had games where I walked right over everyone in a single turn out of the blue, so it's just appropriate reactions to a game ender.

>>49622476

I like sharuum a lot, I hope you also run blood artist and sculpting steel and such so the combo is heavily redundant

Make sure you pack enchantment/artifact removal for gy hate

>>49622509
I have that as well as Blood Artist but the Energy cards are new and I think they are pretty neat. And it retains some of the what's on top subgame that Muzzio had, so it's still exciting.

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>>49622351
>Big Scary Threats
This is deemed a Big Scary Threat at my table. It's more that he BECOMES a Big Scary Threat very quickly if he's not dealt with.

>>49622351
>Want to build a mardu commander deck
>Mardu's got nothing but gimmicks, Voltron, or boring shit.

This is what it was like to want to play Jeskai before Narset and Shu Yun came out, wasn't it?

What are the chances that the 4-color products coming out this year will have some kind of interesting wedge legends in there too?

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>>49621135
>What are some of the important cards to run with her? I can't think of anything good out of what I already own.
She's a little new for EDHREC to have really tuned suggestions, but it's still a solid resource.
https://edhrec.com/commanders/adriana-captain-of-the-guard

Pretty much just run solid value board dudes, evasion/hastemakers (Original Odric, Archetype of Aggression, Anger, etc) and the good extra-combat phase cards (Aurelia and/or Waves of Aggression can win games with just Adriana on board). It's a tough balance with how wide/tall to make it, but don't commit too hard to either (Brimaz and Gisela are both fantastic). Don't get trapped by cute things like battalion (some are good, don't get me wrong). Don't forget land destruction. It's great for securing wins mid-late game when you have board presence.

>>49622501
>my sides
It's to distract from their gut. If you're looking at their face, you aren't focusing on the horrible funhouse mirror beneath the tits.

>>49622574

I feel like the whole point of skullbriar is that removal isn't great against him

>>49622741
A well-timed Hexmage or Thief of Blood in the mid/late game can really fuck him up

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Post your favorite wincons

Aside: It makes me feel sad when people get salty over an Ideal win. I get it, you want to cast your fun spells and everything, but Ideal is just another expensive sorcery speed "win the game" effect which are a dime a dozen in EDH. It doesn't even win on the spot; people often get a turn to deal with the lock before it becomes actually oppressive. Yet people are A-OK with insta-losing to Tooth & Nail or Craterhoof.

shrug

>>49622741
Or, you bounce him once and the skullbriar player cries.

>>49622967
I was playing Zedruu Enchantress and pulled off Paradox Haze + Starfield of Nyx + Form of the Dragon + Second Chance combo.

But Laboratory Maniac is the most fun wincon i own.

>>49622967
Assembling Form of the Dragon combos with Enduring Ideal in my old Zedruu deck was lots of fun for a while.

>>49622615
Literally wait a week or two, the 4 colored legendaries will be spoiled by then

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>>49622967

>>49623201
I bet that has never once worked for you.

>>49622026
I have him there as another double strike source. I switched out Soulcatcher for the white nighthawk and I also put in Gisela now that I picked one up, but I haven't updated the list yet. I didn't take Reveillark because it only gives flying, which a lot of my creatures have, and I already have a few sources of graveyard recursion.

>>49623210
It works a lot really. People have to kill every single creature I play with Xeno out so I just wait to play a real kill card like Mal.
I do have people in my group scared of Mal now at least.

>>49623210
Not that anon but you would be surprised how often this one shots someone.

>>49622615
>Not playing MAXIMUM POLITICS Marchesa

baka desu fampai

>>49622967
I don't think people are usually ok with tooth & nail craterhoof wins eithet.

What do you fetch to lock down the table with Ideal?

>>49623244
Why do people have to kill every single creature you play?

>>49623244
>>49623251
But it doesn't even one shot someone unless you have mana back equal to the toughness of the combined total of whatever your opponent has, plus GR.

As a xenagos player, this is one of the more telegraphed plays you can pull off. A spicier alternative is using Malignus with Overwhelming Stampede, then buffing it with Xenagos. Alternatively, you pump malignus with Xenagos and then hit someone with Chandra's Ignition, or Burning Anger. You could even use arcbond, malignus and gratuitous violence, archbond targeting whatever is blocking malignus.

>>49622574
Hit him with infect. A few -1/-1 counters and he never gets cast again.

>>49623308
Because they tend to deal 12+ damage each.

>>49623077

That doesn't work anymore

>>49623424
What? Of course it does. If Skullbriar is bounced, you can respond by sending it to the command zone, but that's in response to it getting decked or put into your hand. Doesn't the change of zone take priority, to allow putting the commander back into the command zone?

>>49623445

Not sure what you mean with your nonstandard usage of "priority" and "in response" here, but the bottom line is this: the commander replacement effect can be used to replace your commander moving from any zone to another, so you can replace skullbriar getting bounced or tucked with him going to the command zone, he keeps the counters

>>49623445
That is incorrect

>>49623445
It's a replacement effect. They are never actually in those places. If your commander gets hit by a wrath for instance your opponent can't necromancy it out of your graveyard before it's put into the command zone.

>>49623505
>>49623491
>>49623498
Wait wait wait wait, sending the commander to the command zone doesn't go on the stack? Literally why?

>>49623516
it's a replacement effect

it's just like choosing a color for Iona, can't be responded to

>>49623548
I must say, I didn't know that. That's a stupid fucking rule, I'm going out to buy and play skullbriar until that rule's changed.

>>49623516
Never stop being bad at Magic, /tg/

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>>49623580
>obscure rule that's format specific, has clearly been changed recently, and really only applies to that one commander
>"look at this retard who doesn't even know this ruling"

>>49623516
Replacement effects don't use the stack anon, read Darksteel Collusus. It's not like Sheldon invented replacement effects, somethings don't use the stack because you could do horseshit with them if they did (like reanimate a Blightsteel to cheat him into play turn 2).

>>49623605
>>49623608
Nope, not this one commander, replacement effects are all over magic. /tg/ is bad at the game, you illustrate this point further.

>>49623608
See, I understood it in the context of... whatever not decking yourself by stashing crazy fatties is called, but I just didn't understand how you could send your commander to the command zone. I thought it was a state based action contingent on your commander not being on the battlefield.

>>49623572
for your edification, the same rule applies when a spell or ability checks to see if a creature 'dies'
i.e. if you have your commander equipped with a skullclamp and then it gets destroyed/toughness set to 0, you won't draw 2 cards unless you have them sent to the graveyard

>>49623605

Well to be fair, it's literally never been a triggered ability or used the stack, it's always been a replacement effect, hence the name commander replacement effect

The only change is that you couldnt replace tuck or bounce before but now you can

>>49623286
>Jeskai (my build)
Lock: Humility + Dovescape or Rule of Law + Possibility Storm
Protection: Solitary Confinement + Honden of Seeing Winds, Nevermore
Win: Form of the Dragon + Second Chance + Starfield of Nyx, Honden of Infinite Rage
Why Jeskai: 2 locks in case some pieces get stuck in hand, Zedruu as a commander who gives you the best synergy for an Ideal shell/enchantment control deck
Why not Jeskai: Tutors aren't great

>esper
Lock: As above with no backup
Protection: As above
Wincon: Palace Siege, Triskaidekaphobia (with Oloro)
Why Esper: Better tutors, Oloro is a better goodstuff control general
Why not Esper: No backup lock, slower win

>5c
Lock: As above with Night of Soul's Betrayal and Living Plane to make the lock harder
Protection: As above
Win: As above
Why 5c: Hardest Ideal lock, green ramp, black tutors
Why not 5c: $$$ manabase

>>49623640

>state based action
I think you should quit throwing around magic jargon you don't understand if you want people to stop making fun of you

>>49623572
It's actually a pretty good rule. All kinds of awful shit and broken friendships would happen if you could respond to the commander moving to the command zone

>>49623677

Ehh I mean as long as the other part of the rule stays the same, i.e. As long as t triggered every time your commander moved zones, then it wouldn't be much different

If they tried to do something in response it would just trigger again

Postan from other thread

First deck, i have Plunder the Graves as base and i printed a fuckload of proxies to try, R8

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/meren-reanimate-2/

Should i change anything? Is there any alternative card to the ones i put in that can do stuff better?

>>49623677
The most horrific is that if it was a triggered ability is that it could stifled and the like. Making the antituck movement useless.

>>49623732
>>49623757
Jesus Christ dumb shit comes out of /tg/s mouth to fast to help them

>>49622476
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/unlimited-powered-hedgehog/

My list in case anyone cared to take a look. It was Muzzio until 2 days ago so there's a lot of left over from that deck.

>>49623779

>Jesus Christ dumb shit comes out of /tg/s mouth to fast to help them
>to fast to

>>49623818
Ah, yes. Correcting someones grammar, the last recourse of someone fanny frustrated on the internet.

>>49623891

There's always punctuation if that fails.

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Post interesting generals

>>49623951
What is this expression trying to convey?

>>49623936
>Sensible Chuckle.png

>>49623978
Ayesha Tanaka's art description was clearly "Show us someone taking a selfie with a suit of armor they pissed on; please crop out the snapchat bar though."

>>49624081
fug

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Even though I'm probably a month late, I finally made this.

Also, does anyone have a good Hazezon list? I have the commander but I can't quite balance all the elements the deck needs to flow smoothly.

>>49623308
By the sound of it, it's because they're awful at the game.

>>49623572
That's fine. He's not that great.

>>49622483
She seems alright to me, but then I use her for her power, not waifuability. She'd do so much better with some gorgeous Nielsen art, but then many female characters would. Hell, Kev Walker could make a fantastic Kaalia that's also a badass.

>>49624167
That iwamori of the open fist is amazing, what's the kill count up to?

>>49624189

Idk man, in a Xenagod deck every creature is 2-3 shotting people so you have to deal with them at a reasonable clip

>>49624262
He hasn't ran him for a while, but it was high teens last time I checked. Keep in mind, it's only a notch per deck's commander.

>>49624259
>We will never have therese Nielsen Kaalia
Just fuck my shit up
I really like the artist who did Teysa 2 as well. Forget who it was.

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A couple of days ago a bunch of Gruul players were rambling and I asked about Thromok. I built a deck and tested it.

>Normally a Mono-Blue, azorius, Esper player
>Decide to build with the two colors which I never touch
>Have a Mayael player that always makes "Biggest cock jokes"
>Lets try to have some fun
>Be in first game
>Fighting a Teferi, Mayael, Trostrani and Kharador
> By mid game I play pandemonium, I have 8 tokens, Anger, Brawn, and Stalking Vengeance on the field
>Blue player decides not to counter it, Tells table to make me "pay for my arrogance" as a joke
>Starts dropping giant krakens
>Mayael starts dropping huge shit as well, enjoying the free damage on me through my own enchantment
>Kharador feels bad for me, drops Avenger and targets Blue for being an ass
> Trostrani drops Worldspire Wurm on my ass
>Have only 2 life left
> Finally reaches my turn
>Drop Thromok
>Turns out Blue doesn't have counter
>ohgoodie.jpg
>81/81 bursts from the ground, Pandemonium nukes the blue player dead
>Anger and Brawn, now dead, allow Thromok to annihilate the Trostrani as he was only able to block 47 of the damage
>Afterwords I fling my giant worm into the Mayael player and Vengeance finishes off the Kharador for the win
>Make biggest dick joke
>Immediate Archenemy next game
>Despite the Archenemy still won twice more that night over 6 games
>once with Descent of Dragons eating 25 tokens and a Haste enabler
>another time with Chandra's Ignition on a 450/450 Thromok with doubling season out
>Deck is fun to play, can come back from setbacks and is always relevant with a number of ways to win

Holy shit I'm a Gruul fag now. Ordered the core of the deck already and am trading for a doubling season next weekend. Why the fuck haven't I tried this out before... Its fucking hilarious how well this deck worked.

Are all Gruul decks this crazy?

>>49624398
Masterpiece Series could theoretically make it possible. Probably have to wait for a return to Alara first.

Karla Ortiz did Envoy of Ghosts. Definitely some cool art, even the style feels Orzhov somehow.

>>49624306
I mean it just gives them haste and double power. It's really not as threatening as he's making it out to be.

>>49624473
Do you have a XGod player in your group?
The deck kills tables very fast if it's not carefully handled.

>>49624473

I don't consider it all that threatening when you look at the strategy as a whole, I'm just saying the claim that people feel like they have to kill every Fattie he plays isn't unreasonable to me, it feels like that when I play against my friend's Xenagod deck, everything is a turn away from killing me

>>49624401
Your doing the good lords work anon...

And yes, Gruul is all about the power plays. When you want to expand go for either Omnath for token beatdown, Wort for spellslinging, or Ruric Thar for a control through creature build. They are all awesome!

>>49624528

You're a fucking moron ifor you can't understand how quickly the deck can drop an entire table without removing 90% of the fatties they play

My group has an xgod player and generally if he makes it to the late game then we have to focus him

You don't seem to understand the kind of creatures this deck plays

>>49624623

First of all calm down, second, if you read my post again I'm sure you'll notice that I'm on your side of the argument

>>49624623
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/17-02-15-xenagos-smash/

Here's my list, check out the average power of the creatures.

>>49622525
Look into avoid fate, rebuff the wicked, or forbid...

>>49623347
Infect is useless after they figure out about any instant speed sacrifice a creature card.

>>49624705

>Krosan drover
Never seen this card, I like it

>>49624831
It's pretty sweet
Going from 4 to 7 is a blow out

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I run pic related to interact with anything in that doesn't rely on nonland permanents. Anything else I can handle less dickishly, but the issue is that these two cards are infinitely more powerful, effective, and impactful than Reliquary Monk and Bone Shredder.

There's a problem with having trump cards though: you run the risk of always winning or (even worse) starting an arms race. So, how would you suggest I move forward?
>Choose at the beginning of the game whether or not I will use these at all
>Find significantly weaker versions of these cards so I can still interact, but they aren't near-guaranteed victories
>Stop using these as soon as the problem player is dead

My problem with solutions 1 and 3 is that to me those actions say "I think you are so shit that I'll just discard the most powerful spells in my deck and still win." My problem with solution 2 is that there may not be a suitable middle ground between "takes out Mizzix storm" and "doesn't take out Gahiji badstuff." Balancing a deck for one's playgroup and meta is hard.

>>49624893
Play the cards in your deck and cast them as necessary. Otherwise don't cast them. Just because you draw the mind twist doesn't mean you have to play it.

>>49624893

I don't think either of these cards is powerful enough in multiplayer to be even worrying about this

It sucks to be the person who gets hit with mind twist first but it's still just one person getting hit with it

If you're winnin every game you could consider toning it down but it's better to just help your playgroup get better with deck advice and such

>>49624893
To be fair both cards lend themselves to different strategies, same goes with Reliquary Monk and Bone Shredder.

Armageddon is good in aggressive decks and in EDH I find MLD is the only way for aggressive decks to get under control decks. Like a Boros deck just won't beat a control deck in a 40-life format if you can't stop them from casting spells and take advantage of your early game power.

Mind Twist is good for combo decks to assure that you can go on uninterrupted. I play Phage as my commander and the last thing you want is someone disrupting your ways to play her and you end up losing. So hand destruction is the best way to do it.

Arms races happen in any playgroup. The best thing to do is constantly innovate. When you bring something new and unprecedented to the table it means your opponents don't know what they have to race against and it often gives you the advantage.

I also keep an array of decks around at different power levels. I have competitive decks and I have more fun decks. I play depending on what I feel like and what my playgroup is playing.

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>>49622967
It's tough to get it to fire off, but when it does, nobody ever expects it, and everyone loves how insanely suicide-Johnny it is. Use Angel's Grace, Phyrexian Unlife, Children of Korlis or Tainted Sigil as insurance in case it gets disrupted.

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So I was thinking of getting playmat for Ruric Thar.
I can do simple design stuff on my own so making the art and getting it made is no problem.

The problem I have is I have no idea what I want it to be.

I was thinking along the lines of
>I CAST FIST
>SHITTY WIZARD
>TAKE YOUR FANCY SPELLS AND EAT IT

If it helps at all the deck is rather punishment based.

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>>49625221

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>>49625221
>Cast that spell little mage I fucking dare you
Obviously you shouldn't be running Browbeat, but its art is pretty fitting.

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>>49625256
I run the the more fun version.

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>>49622967
It isn't perfect, but my god is it hilarious watching the table squirm in disgust.

>>49625355
Christ that's horrible. I love it, would run Godo just to facilitate it.

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>>49622967

>>49625355
Oh this is TASTY. I love gunboat diplomacy in decks, what other commanders do this kind of stuff?

>>49625399
Are you telling me you don't already run Godo?

I really want to build Zurgo, but I get the feeling that packing a ton of Wraths and a semi-consistent mana base would make the deck uncomfortably expensive, how true is this?

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Alright, so why is no one talking about the best card printed for commander in years?

This thing works with EVERYTHING

>>49625639
I'd be more worried about Zurgo being generally underwhelming UNLESS you're using him as a sorcery to deal damage to a locked down player, ad are running a hard control/stax setup.

But, answering your question, not really. You can grab a lot of cheap white wraths, and the manabase can be built on the cheap, if you aren't relying on cards with complex devotion, outside of zurgo. In general, your mana base will be much more expensive than your wraths.

>>49625647
It was discussed to death when it was spoiled

>>49625221
>>49625233
>>49625256
After some more thinking and with some more feedback from friends I have decided to make a fist punching into Jace's hood. I will probably do it simplistically. I will keep things updated as I go on.

>>49625679
Should still be talked and played to death.

>That feel when cast this with mirrorworks on the field.

It's the best drug

>>49625647
>strionic resonator is explicitly better
>rings of brighthearth is explicitly better
>Illusionist's bracers is also better, but more niche
I mean, it's neat, but not "totally reorganize the format into some new staple" neat. It just makes Purpheros more dickish.

>>49625672
>your mana base will be much more expensive than your wraths
This is what I'm most concerned with. My group is pretty low-power, but the small Spike in me wants to be able to get him out quick. I should probably just build alesha, there's already a Zurgo deck which is pretty much Mardu badstuff he got from packs

>>49625647
I'll say it every time it's posted. Great johnny card and a lot of fun for people who choose to play it. But I personally like to tune my decks to the max no matter what commander is at the head so it probably has no place in most of my decks as a 4 drop do nothing.

>>49625539
I don't have a Ruric deck, but I do tend to run Godo in most builds with R.

>>49625750
Why do you want to build Zurgo in the first place? Is he really doing something Uril couldn't do in better colours?

>>49625355
>someone runs godo
>thinks I give a shit about six damage being dealt to me when I have 40
>people think giving him infect would matter

Anyone who runs godo or zurgo, I immediately assume are new to magic.

>>49625770
I wanna slap motherfuckers around with a bigass Orc

And I like Voltron

>>49625791
What recently printed commanders are played by people who are obviously experienced?

>>49625791
>>49625760
speaking of godo I feel like that's one deck I'd probably play panharmonicon in off the top of my head besides obvious actually etb centric decks like roon or something.

>>49625791
>>people think giving him infect would matter
Why wouldn't it matter, oh wise one?

>>49625791
You said Godo and Zurgo multiple times.
You are replying to Ruric Thar.

>>49625791
2 noncreature spells with that Exoskeleton equipped and you dead, nigga

Why you gotta hate on my man Godo?

>>49625746
Yeah Rings certainly is explicitly better than Panharmonicon at doubling up Mulldrifter's draw power

>>49625807
>I wanna slap motherfuckers around with a bigass Orc
Can't help you there, but there are lots of other fun creatures.

>Voltron
Uril is strictly better for a cheap manabase. Auras are usually pretty cost effective, all the same white wrath stuff still applies, and you get access to a giant pool of green basic land ramp, which is usually the best option for cheap diverse manabase.

Alternatively, Karlov is pretty cheap to build and can let you do the WB shenanagains you've planned. Bruna isn't bad either, and for maximum flavour, you could rock Lord Tresserhorn.

Plains ->Arid Mesa
Ichor Wellspring ->Kytheon
Prophetic Prism ->Recruiter of the Guard
Taurean Mauler->Ranger of Eos
Catastrophe->Odric 1.0

Thoughts on these re-slots?

my deck for reference:
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/kalemne-sitter-of-faces/

please no bully

>>49625874
>playing mulldrifter in any setup that doesn't revolve around flickering, reanimating, or abusing his ability
If you're relying on a 4 mana durdle artifact and a 3 or 5 mana creature to get you 4 cards, chances are you'd be better off with the usual cantrips.

>>49625923
You have to stop. Seriously. You have spent almost 2 grand on what amounts to a not very good deck.

>>49622967
My favorite way to win in Borborygmos is Snake Umbra + Life from the Loam.

>>49625957
>stoplikingwhatidontlike.tiff

>>49625933

Idk why you're assuming panharmonicon would replace flickering and reanimating as opposed to combining for quadruple the value

Its been incredible so far in my reanimation/flicker Sedris deck

>>49625986
I'd like it if you stopped spamming it. I have seen your deck a thousand times more than any other deck on this general.

>>49624591
Angry Angry Omnath also has the alt wincon of blowing up all of its own elementals for when you don't want to, or can't, swing.

>>49626007
Yes, people can like janky cards.

No, it doesn't seem like something I'd use, even in Brago. I understand that it's a "value engine" but on its own it doesn't do anything. Chances are you cast it, it sits there for a long ass time, and anything powerful enough to be applicable will get countered or removed before you can abuse it to the full extent you want.

>>49626035
>spamming
Every time its been posted it's been for a person requesting info for a boros voltron build or me genuinely asking for advice.

>>49626093
Completely different anon, but I do see your deck a fair bit more than anyone else.

Also, the name is probably pissing people off because it relates to fetish bullshit, and seems like a thinly veiled attempt to shitpost about it.

>>49625221
The flavor textbox for Stranglehold.

>>49626086
Personally I dont even think it's an issue of sitting for a long-ass time. It just doesn't do anything by itself, period. You either ramp and spend all your tempo you generated off ramp to drop it early by not establishing a foot forward and just casting a card that doesn't do anything or you cast on turn 4 and it does nothing and you did basically nothing on turn 4. And personally I played in a very tuned meta so holding out to cast both it and, say, mulldrifter or something is waiting a long time to get value.

>>49626136
I would think once every 4 threads is fair. People getting triggered by the name of a deck seems odd given the site we're on. When has there ever been a discussion about face-sitting? barring this discourse right now

>>49626172
Yup, well put. I agree with your assessment completely and it seems like a dead draw more often than not. But, I bet those nu-extended and standard players will push it way harder than it should be.

>>49626172
>>49626086

This is like saying mirari's wake is bad

Yes it has to live a little while but any deck with a lot of etbs is going to value out of control real fast, I think it's definitely an optimal include in any etb based deck

>>49626136
>Also, the name is probably pissing people off because it relates to fetish bullshit, and seems like a thinly veiled attempt to shitpost about it.
I've literally never seen anybody mention this name annoying them until now. If this seriously gets under your (not specifically you) skin you should probably grow a thicker epidermis. it's pretty obviously just a joke name with no subtext.

>>49626235
A mana doubler is a lot bigger of a deal and is functionally kind of a different thing. To cast mirari's wake, you have to have lands, and you're always going to be tapping them anyway. But in general I'm not sure how I feel about Mirari's wake in real tuned lists anyway. Maybe it's also not worth it. I think I made it pretty clear from where I was making my assessment and not necessarily speaking in general terms. Then again I guess you wouldn't know this >>49625760 was me. Not saying it's a bad card. Just probably not a gamechanger in terms of power level.

>>49626312

I agree it's not a game changer, just another good option

Post one of your "tuned" lists that are too good for mirari's wake and panharmonicon, it would give this conversation some context

>>49626235
False equivalency. Mirari's Wake is very clearly good without many other pieces. You drop it with one mana open, and boom value. Any creature on the field, boom value.

Panharmonicon requires a few things:
>artifact or creature
>triggered ability of another permanent you control

So this shoehorns it into one of two camps. Either you're doubling down on ETBs, or your using it to get double benefit from something that benefits from ETBs. Generally, those are two niche setups. For example, as much as my Brago deck takes advantage of ETBs, I'm able to flicker things much more efficiently than this card would enable. If I'm smart, within the first two flickers I win, so I don't really "need" to generate value turn over turn. The inverse can also be said. In a flicker setup where you're prioritizing value, in general you want every card you hit to generate value. If you hit this card any time but mid game, you would be better off actually playing something huge or something useful. Midgame, it's decent because you have opportunity to advance your boardstate before your opponent does something stupid. That means, in order for this card to be good, you need to get it on a turn where you don't need something else but you can't win by advancing your boardstate, and also don't need to remove any of your opponent's threats.

That sounds definitely not good in my opinion. Not the worst card, but not as good as you're describing.

>>49624519
Yes, and while it has it's moments, it's rarely the deck to beat.

You people are making it sound like this ominous fast killing deck, which it usually is not whatsoever.

>>49626386
I don't have a deck for mirari's wake. I know someone mentioned it in karlov. I have that list but it's my real life list so it's not 100% yet due to it being a new deck and not owning all the pieces for it. My other deck is Teferi Planeswalkers which obviously panharmonicon has no place in.

I didn't mean to say it was 'too good'. I think you're reading more into what I'm saying than I'm implying. I'm not trying to shit on Panharmonicon. There are decks I would play it in. It just wouldn't be most of them.

>>49626464
>mentioned it
Panharmonicon is "it"

>>49626146
Oh wow, I never even considered it, thanks a lot!

>>49626485
Also consider the flavor text of skullcrack

>>49624623
And you're fucking bad at the game if you think a hasted fatty is so game threatening.

Please enloghten me as to what creatures this deck keeps throwing down that creates archenemy scenario agaist it.

>>49625277
Is that really even that good in EDH?

>>49626553
Really good in Feldon or reanimator decks.

>>49626553
i could see a spot for it in daretti or a deck that runs a bunch of artifact recursion

>>49626553
It's barely good in draft.

>>49626526
Stop.

Xenagos tends to draw removal because he hits hilariously hard within a turn, and people are incredibly butthurt when they lose to Xenagos because it seems linear and brainless compared to whatever storm/tutor/izzet/esper deck they're playing. As a result, in group play there is an inherent divide between people playing non-interactive decks who think Xenagos is worse than satan, and people who just laugh and cast deflecting palm, or some control-related nonsense.

The person you're trying to bait is very obviously new.

You're also coming off as an idiot. If you want to shitpost with profanity, do it in whatever containment board you came from.

>>49626413

I wasn't trying to say panharmonicon is the same as mirari's wake, I'm saying the same arguments you were making against it apply to mirari's wake

You pay 5 and get nothing

Panharmonicon only requires 1 other creature then it's basically like a clone, but I think this line of reasoning is kind of silly anyway because the idea of an etb deck not having enough hits to make panharmonicon good just seems far fetched compared to the more likely issue of it being destroyed in response to your big etb play

>>49626553
I know I've been working on rebuilding Daretti after tearing out the pieces to work on my new planeswalker love in Teferi and it's definitely going in there. But that's a very specific set of synergies. Don't know about general use. I think Cataclysmic Gearhulk is probably the best for general use in commander but I think white has so many better options that it's probably not worth it. Maybe black but it's not very splashy.

>>49626605
Cataclysmic Gearhulk is worth it if only because it's one of the few Wraths on a creature that has no specific requirements, so you can actually just blink it every turn and keep them all locked out of flooding the board.

>>49626553

Seems better in edh than any other format because you need high cmc cards to give them any reason to choose the damage

>>49626637
a scroll rack could go a long way in ensuring you will always get the draw

>>49626682
wow, disgusting

>>49626464

I thought you were saying you wouldn't play it in a tuned etb deck, which seemed weird so I wanted to see your idea of a tuned etb deck, that's all

>>49626526
Not that guy but the "scariest" things in edh are those that kill people without warning. Xenagos can be scary because any creature you drop might be enough to kill someone. (Just imagine essentially any fatty plus inkmoth Nexus, who dodges wrath and shit). Thats what makes people into the archenemy, they can't really dismantle your board ( when he isn't a creature he dodges most removal) and lots of guys you topdeck will kill someone or get them to deaths door.

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>>49622574
How about you stop all that

>>49626686
important to note, you must activate scroll rack before the targeted player decides

>>49626699
>czek'd

>implying green fears enchantments, ever

>>49626601
The main difference between the two is when you cast mirari's wake, when your next turn comes around, basically go 0 to 60. Panharmonicon has some really powerful synergies but most of the time it's just going to be extra value, and even when it's not you still have to draw those specific things. Mirari's wake jumps you from 5 mana to 10 all by itself which is enormous. The pay off is much greater
>>49626692
Oh, I thought the reply chain was about how Panharmonicon was like a new commander staple or something. And to be fair it probably is to the majority of the playerbase. Just giving my reasoning for why it won't be for me.

>>49626594
>shitpost with profanity
I'm sorry if i offended your sensibilities, mom, but I was simply using the same language that was directed towards me.

I wasn't even trying to bait, simply calling someone out on their shit. If you follow the relplies, I'm not the one who escelated the conversation.

So basically, go fuck yourself.

>>49626601
>this entire post
Look, I know you're trying, but those goalposts are moving a lot. You pay 5 with Mirari's and get 10+ mana the next turn and a +1/+1 anthem for all your creatures. The argument is that in isolation both cards do nothing, and that's fundamentally flawed. Assuming you have the mana to cast Mirari's, you get value out of it, by doubling the mana your lands can produce. Casting Panharmonicon does literally nothing if you don't have a setup to benefit from it.

In order for Panharmonicon to do anything, let alone something of value, you need to have a creature/artifact with an ETB or a creature already in play that benefits from ETBs, open mana to cast a creature/artifact, and a way to make sure whatever you're casting doesn't instantly get countered.

The issue isn't the number of "hits" it takes to make Panharmonicon good, the issue is playing it the VAST majority of the time does nothing that turn, or the turn after, unless you specifically tailor your hand to abuse it.

Like I said, it's fine to play jank, but I wouldn't use it for the above reasoning. A niche mid-game card just doesn't tickle my fancy.

>>49626553
Defiantly good with Kiki-Jiki.

>>49626697
In that situation Inkmoth is the threat.

Every deck should have spot removal for lands like that.

I'm not callin the card bad by any means.

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>>49626738
>He was mean to me so I was mean to him back!

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>>49626738
>I'm sorry if i offended your sensibilities, mom, but I was simply using the same language that was directed towards me
And I bet you wonder how I know you're new to this site.

If you aren't going to address the argument, do not reply further, or you're simply massaging your wounded anus by desperately trying to fit in with strangers who don't particularly like your conduct.

>>49626758

Okay let me be more clear

In your words the issue is that it does nothing that turn (or the turn after)

Im saying that mirari's wake does nothing the turn you play it (you need at least 11 lands to net mana that turn), yet it's still great

Panharmonicon is likely the same in any deck filled with etb creatures. In the deck I've been testing it in, its always been amazing if I untap with it and a must remove for my opponents

If you think your deck wouldn't be able to do anything with it after untapping then yes, don't play it, but I can't imagine an etb deck that couldn't have a huge turn after untapping with it

You shouldn't have to "tailor your hand" to have etb plays in an etb deck

>>49624401
I never have as much fun with EDH as when I play my Borborygmos deck.

>>49626832
...Isn't that exactly what you're doing?

>>49626812
Got nothing else, huh?

Cool. Nice chat.

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How do I make an interesting deck out of him?

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>>49626879
Im not him you idiot Im just laughing at that logic dude

>>49626883
Actually build around the lifegain. Just know it'll be worse than builds that are just control into some combo that probably isn't life gain related.

>>49626883
>interesting
>Oloro

You'll have to pick one or the other.

>>49626849
No. You completely misunderstood everything in my post and it would take longer to explain things than it's worth.

Simply put, you will not have a creature/artifact with an ETB in your hand at all times that will benefit from Panharmonicon at all times. Mirari's wake instantly nets you advantage on your next turn regardless of what's in your hand, assuming you don't get advantage the turn you cast it.

>>49626883
Do something with all that life instead of pillowforting like most people that run him.

>>49626903

You realize you're shitting up this thread more than they were, right?

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>tfw can't decide between Sydri or Slobad for my artifact deck

FUCK

>>49626942
Like this thread aint trash already my dude

>>49626942
Stop.

I'm the guy who called "that guy" an idiot and explained why Xenagos could draw creature related hate. Another anon acknowledged the general absurdity of your argument, and now that same shitposter who is in every thread has engaged in massive damage control.

The point is, Xenagos draws creature related hate in group play for already explained reasoning. Any further posting without addressing this point is just a shitposting.

>>49626959
Look, you haven't posted for a few days and the threads have been nice. As soon as you start posting, things generally degenerated to this because your attitude is confrontational. I thought you were being sarcastically nice, please continue to do so if you want to post here, because it's incredibly obnoxious when you do whatever this is.

>have control deck
>need win con that isn't boring two piece combo
>not a lot of room in the deck for beaters

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Hello, /EDH/. I feel like there's something lacking in my Frog deck, aside from Crucible.

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/propagate/

What else should I be running or including for this deck?

>>49626954
Why not build Memnarch or Arcanis?

>>49627005
What are you running?

>>49626954
Kurkesh is fun as hell.

>>49626959

Very true.

>>49626975
Stop saying "Stop" and then shitposting.

I've read the thread. I know i was replying to someone else. I know how the conversation went. Someone boasted about Xenagos, someone said it wasn't actually scary, butts were hurt, then you swept in trying to be some sort of /tg/ playground teacher. You need to understand that you are also shitposting super hard. So just stop.

I also understand that i am currently shitposting.

If I see the word "shitposting" one more fucking time ill kill myself. Its just as bad as people calling other people "cucks" or saying "cringe"
>I dont agree with you. HE MUST BE A SHITPOSTER HERP DERP

>>49626935

That's not true though, what if you don't have any/enough expensive spells? Then mirari's wake does nothing. And you wouldn't cast it in that situation

I've literally never played a game with my etb creature deck where I didn't have at least 1-2 etb creatures in hand in the midgame

It's actually a lot easier to get value the turn you play panharmonicon than mirari's wake, because with 7 mana you could go panharm + 3 drop etb like mulldrifter, whereas mirari's wake you need 11 lands to net mana, otherwise you are investing mana that turn

>>49627018
My bud has a Memnarch deck, I aim to fuck it up

Arcanis artifacts? Explain

>>49627054
I have one lying around somewhere. What's some good shit for him?

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>>49627009

>>49627001

You have the wrong poster

I'm still being for real nice, not sarcastic

>>49627083
>shitposting

Your move, cuck.

>>49627034
esper control. used to use lab maniac + demonic consultation to win but its gay.

>>49627115
I got got

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Fuck, not this shit again.

I'm out. This past week was fun, but holy shit I wish there was a place to talk about commander on the internet that wasn't awful.

>>49627160

I think this latest explosion of bad vibes is winding down though m80, I foresee more chill discussion in the near future

>>49627160
Oh whaa. Some people get in a couple of dick measuring contests and you freak out. Welcome to the internet.

On the same topic, though, are there any other good online edh communities? Is the reddit edh board any good?

>>49626954

Take the red jew planeswalker from the intro pack.

>>49627101
Stuff like mimic vat, Feldon, liquid metal coating, mind slaver, rings for even more copying. Any articact that has fun or good abilities to copy. I haven't put a list online, but he's a blast. I do silly stuff like mindslaving everyone at the table.

>>49627183
I've had a really fucking awful day and I just wanted to talk about commander without things turning into a giant dick waving contest. My personal life is awful, the only escapism I have is helping people build their commander decks, and the worst part is it was nice, briefly. The past couple of days were fine until captain cock-swain and his bullshit friend showed up.

>>49627196
Here's your (you). Go to mtgsalvation and never come back.

>>49627243
Sorry your day was so bad man but thats just not the way it works dude

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I am new to EDH.

>Which is the best Jund commander for a goodstuff deck?
>How hard is it play with no card draw (Naya)?

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>>49626954
Be a hippy.

>>49627128
you played yourself

>>49627305
Naya has good card draw because of green. Id say dragon goodstuff for Jund would be a lot of fun.

>>49627305
>>Which is the best Jund commander for a goodstuff deck?
Maybe prosh. Jund isn't really good at goodstuff decks because the commanders are all very lackluster, outside of Prosh and Karthus.

>How hard is it play with no card draw (Naya)?
Impossible. You will hate your life and immediately quit, or bitch about it here.

>>49627305
>>Which is the best Jund commander for a goodstuff deck?
Probably Adun Oakenshield, to just get back whatever goodstuff your buds have killed.

>>How hard is it play with no card draw (Naya)?
Naya has plenty of card draw in green.

>>49627243
Nobody gives a shit that you had a bad day, you baby. Go cry in your fucking pillow.

Your deck advice is shit, too.

>>49626954
Embrace the void, anon. Build Kozilek instead.

>>49626883
Run the new artifact from KLD that deals 50 when you pay 50 life.

>>49627305
>The enchantresses look at you with a troubled, uncomfortable glare

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How's this on Jori-En?

>>49627399
That looks like it requires WAY too much set up or takes too long to set up.

>>49627399

Awesome in magical christmasland

Basically one of those cards that has absurdly high potential but you eventually cut it because you've had it for over a year and never once had it go off

>>49627305
>>Which is the best Jund commander for a goodstuff deck?
Is there any option besides prossh whether you build around him or not?

I actually think green's card draw is kind of overrated but naya has a powerful general in Marath

>>49627399
Really good if you're running proliferate.

Probably not what you want to run in Jori-En though.

>>49627363
That's a bad idea

So been finally working on a deck for commander, and I was gonna do a pre con (Still might as a jumping off point, staples, etc.) but I have been looking at rashmi as my commander.

Now I know EDHrec which is sweet but I am also trying to kind of go budget. Is there a way I can filter edh playable cards by price or am I asking too much?

I've started to realize that my decks perform exponentially worse when there are more than 2 opponents to face down

I must fix this. It's time to build with creatures.

>>49627494

Using the UG precon for rashmi shouldn't be too bad

As far as I know there's no way to straight up filter edhrec results for your budget but I don't see why you can't just use it but leave out the expensive cards?

>>49627523
>>49627494
Weirdly, I think the UR deck is probably more strategically in line with what Rashmi wants to do. But you can't buy that and use it because the lands and a bunch of red and gold spells that don't work. But value is value, the UG deck is probably still fine because of that.

Who's a good toolbox commander, aside from Captain Sisay?

>>49627612
Kaho.

>>49627635
Literally
LITERALLY
who

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>>49626722
Alright fine

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>>49627305

>>49627648
I'm assuming you're just making a comment and not asking me how to look for Magic cards.

Also Lin Sivvi.

>>49627685
best wifer

>>49627635
Kaho looks interesting. Probably a lot of anti-removal should be run, though. Would it be best to run some sort of High Tide list?

>>49627699
That was someone else.
And yeah, I've considered Lin Sivvi, but do Rebels really have a good enough card base to search?

>>49622615
There are so many different ways to build Marchesa if you're not playing the Mardu deck you want with her, you DO want a gimmick that hasn't shown up yet.

>>49627635
Oh my, that's pretty spicy. I bet you could use in the 99 of a LOT of decks to get around complicated mana costs.

>>49627718
Kaho's got the same issue Sisay does, is trying to make sure she doesn't die before you get the chance to tap her, the upside being if you she does survive, or you have a haste enabler like Greaves or Thousand-Year Elixir, she can just cast her own counterspells to protect herself. Swan Song is my favourite, just have one extra mana free.

>>49627739
Obviously depends on your meta, my old Lin Sivvi deck did well back in the day, but I admit my meta is getting better and she's becoming more lackluster. That said, abuse with Cathars Crusade, Mirror Entity, etc. can get scary quickly.

>>49627761
I do love Training Grounds with her.

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>>49627612
I had fun using Isperia the Inscrutable as a toolbox commander. There is a flyer for pretty much everything you want to do.

>>49627739
Read ISBPathfinder's Lin-Sivvi primer on MTGSalvation, he plays in a pretty competitive meta and explains throughout the thread how the deck finds wins, you can gauge how it jives with your own meta.

>>49626883
I make him ultra cutthroat with doomsday, tendrills, maniac or sharuum combos, then removed all the nonbasic lands.
I then make fun of people for not being able to beat a crippled Oloro but somehow they don't get as buttyblasted as they did when I won with a perfect manabase and utter shit wincons like literally killing them one by one with Nether Shadow because apparently playing Underground Sea is more offensive that papercutting people without even looking at my hand for hours.

>>49624401
Got a decklist? Sounds fun.

>>49627739
>>49627858
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/multiplayer-commander-decklists/217186-lin-sivvi-the-rebel-scum

This one is also really toolboxy, partially abuses Rebels but has a much higher tier commander at the helm
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/multiplayer-commander-decklists/607472-the-ghost-brigades-karador-rebels-aggro-control

>>49627798
Reasonable points. What would the wincon be for Kaho, though? Brain Freeze storm, or stall until I drop an Eldrazi/Blightsteel/etc.?

>>49627858
That primer helped! Thanks for the advice.

>>49627814
Isperia looks interesting. I'd also need to run a lot of Telepathy-type effects, though, right?

>>49627973
>I'd also need to run a lot of Telepathy-type effects, though, right?
Nah, Boomerangs.

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What is the best way to run river cutthroat as commander?

>>49627994
...I never thought of that and rejected Isperia out of hand. You've awakened something within me. Thank you.

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Are there any dedicated green hate cards like pic related? My meta is really Timmy/green strong and looking for answers that aren't just stax

>>49628013
Get him out fast and voltron his shit up I would think.

>>49628041
Deathgrip is going to be your best friend.

>>49628013
I played U/B control withe him. Was pretty fun.

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I'm really liking Padeem thus far. Nothing says fuck you like a hexproof winter orb.

>>49628013

Kinda like a Jank version of Edric, you want evasive cheap creatures so you can reliably draw every turn and then also run whatever instants you can that can reliably trigger him on opponents turns like undermine

Don't miss any triggers when your opponents pay life and attack each other

Does anybody have the EDH playgroup template too?

>>49627973
>What would the wincon be for Kaho, though?
My Kaho list kinda evolved across various archetypes over the years, High Tide combo, storm, voltron control, artifact tribal. Whatever you think is most fun, she works regardless.

You're welcome, the list is solid and like I said, it performed well in my older meta. For my new meta, I'm debating building the Karador list I also linked to. It seems like fun while being more competitive.

>>49628018
You're welcome, although IMHO even with boomerangs she's jank as fuck. Too pricey and slow.

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>>49628053
God damn thanks, that's exactly what I'm looking for

>>49628062
Are you playing with Mycosynth Lattice?

>>49628082
Enough with the attention whoring. Post meta lists if you think people might be curious about decklists.

>>49627888
wat

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>>49628096
I don't understand how I am attention whoring. I just posted my commander.

>>49628093
Yea and darksteel forge.

>>49628013
Turbo discard with Megrim effects and Retrace cards.

Need Esper or Azorius control deck wincons. Do they all use combos? I've heard in Standard a lot of them just drop a beater and stop the other guy from taking it out.

>>49628162
In standard you're messing with Cancel-imitations and 5cmc wraths from one guy. In commander you're against 3 guys willing and able to go nuclear on your shit.

Morphling and Aetherling are the best option if you want to counter everything then rev for 15 but that's not what commander is for even in 1v1.

>>49628090
Have fun. Your only Achilles Heel is protecting it; mono-black wouldn't do so hot against stuff like Naturalize

>>49628197
So... Combo's the way to go?

>>49628162
That doesn't really work out in multiplayer most of the time. Combo is the way to go. You might be able to make evasive beaters work, and props to you if you can.

>>49628226
In Azorius voltron with Geist or Augustin is good since they often only need to hit twice or thrice with a Runechanter's Pike unlike the 6-8 times the lings would have to hit.
In esper yes, combo is best, it's the combo shard after all.

>>49628256
A very good point. Always wanted to make one of those decks to control + smash.

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>>49628090

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Can you guys take a look at this Nin deck? Its my girlfriend's deck that I'm trying to upgrade a bit. She is not interested in infinite combos, which is where nin's strength really lies, so its a little harder.

She likes plays that reward card draw (Niv MIzzet, Psychosis Crawler, Spiraling embers) and things that punish large hands and draw (Runeflare trap, Cerebral Vortex)

I can't take out diminish, so just ignore that one.

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/07-11-15-nin-the-pain-artist/

>>49628256
>In Azorius voltron with Geist or Augustin is good since they often only need to hit twice or thrice with a Runechanter's Pike

This only apply to 1v1? I don't know how well voltron works in multiplayer.

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>>49628366
>I don't know how well voltron works in multiplayer.
Less good, but it does get some fun junk.

>>49628211
Still not sure on what general/colors I want. Definitely black, maybe dimir, maybe grixis. Discard is prob the way to go since that makes timmies squirm. Hell might go with Sygg after seeing him posted above me

>>49628280
very good

>>49628331
Illusory Ambusher

>>49628366
You have to work for you win, lay some stones, break your oponent's stones, build a hand of counters and lands, equip Geist and then Armageddon their shit.

>>49628482
>MLD

Oh no, come now, that's no fun.

>>49628478
oh damn thats spicy. Thanks bro!

>>49628533
Good tables run enough rocks for it not to matter. Really more of a soft lock and a way to punish over-extenders. Not quite as huge anymore thanks to Splendid Reclamation...Oh I think I need to brew Naya MLD now.

Arjun looks like a spicy commander. How can I take advantage of his constant wheeling?

>>49624401
Welcome to the insatiable throbbing burning love.
Thromok loves you.
Gruul loves you.

>>49628649
Psychosis Crawler, Niv Mizzet, Alhammarret's Archive, Thought Reflection, Sphinx's Tutelage, 1x Jace's Erasure

>>49628649

Alhamaret's archive, thought reflection

>>49628680
>>49628681

I already had those. Anything else, or should I just build the rest as Izzet goodstuff control?

>>49624401
Could you teach me the ways of Thromok? That sounds actually fun. I mainly play mono-black control, Orzhov control, and Esper control, but that sounds like a nice change of pace.

How do I into Gruul Wort?

>>49626035

I agree. It's starting to just come across as 'LOOK AT HOW COOL MY DECK IS GUYS! AREN'T I SO UNIQUE AND SPECIAL WITH MY PRECON COMMANDER?'

>>49628725
Mindmoil, Teferai's Puzzle Box

>>49627973
I heard of a Kaho deck that "imprints" Mystical Tutor with her to tutor extra turn spells. Does that sound like a legit wincon?

>>49626093

You're shit and your deck is shit. You just seem to think that anyone here is impressed by your foils.

>>49628833
That sounds really awesome. Imprint Tutor, Counterspell, and Brain Freeze, and play a sort of drawgo mill.

>>49628833
Extra turns by themselves won't do anything, but that sounds like a promising start.

>>49627243

Nice blog faggot. No one gives a shit about you or your bad day or your feelings. If EDH is the only joy you have in life just kill yourself.

>>49627243
>Trying to help people on 4chan

Where do you think you are right now?

>>49628879
>three hours later
Anon, are YOU having a bad day that no one cares about?

>>49628861
>>49628867

I forgot that that Kaho deck also imprints Time Stop. That might be another way to go.

>>49624401

Welcome to the Gruul Life

Don't forget your skullclamp

>>49628331
Is changing the general to Nekusar out of the question?

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>new guy shows up last night
>apparently he's some big shot in Standard and Modern at another shop
>sold most of his money decks to build an EDH deck, busts out Tasigur
>turns out it's a netdeck of some super high-ranked tappedout list that he has literally no idea how to pilot
>end up smashing his asshole with Shu Yun

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>>49628905

>It's not possible to come into a thread late and read the previous posts

>>49628913
>imprints Time Stop
On what?

>>49628898
To be fair, there are some pretty consistent anons that look at decklists posted here. Personally I'll go way out of my way to look at any gruul or golgari deck that isn't gitrog or mid-tier xenagos.

>>49628939
On Kaho with her ability.

>>49628921
Yeah, she wants to keep it as Nin.

Dames, am I right, fellas?

>>49628949
Oh shit I'm a retard, I had Kaho confused with Maga

Carry on

>>49628777
Token makers
Draw
Ramp spells into a Craterhoof

The Great Aurora

>>49627683
>nonblack

>>49628940
Please help me with RG Wort. It looks stupid fun, and maybe more interesting than Melek

>>49629016
I can't take a look on my phone, but in a few hours I'll be happy to take a look at what you've assembled and give you some pointers.

>>49628940
Ruric Thar is pretty spicy. I made a primal surge list with him recently that's fun but a bit on the slow side.

>>49629070
With the help of another anon I built a pretty fun R/G stax deck with Ruric. It's... not bad, but could be better with more tuning.

Who is the best commander for promoting mass slaughter? I want my table to start beating the shit out of itself instead of durdling for a billion turns

>>49629151
Marchesa as long as you don't build it the way you're supposed to. Let people fight for the crown.

Anybody know some overall unexpected yet fun cards to include in a Lazav deck? So far I have Hedonist's trove.

>>49628913
Dramatic Reversal with Kaho may get you infinite mana with enough mana rocks.

>>49629151
Gahiji. Be a total fucking weasel and play politics like a motherfucker. Run every card you have access to that lets you broker deals with people

>>49629151
Build new grenzo, goad everyones creatures. Top it off with spicy red shit like damage doublers and avatar of slaughter.

He is also one of like 3 red generals that actually generate card advantage, so you can throw in caged sun, gauntlet of power/might and try to play every card you exile.

>>49629184
What
Cards cast using Kaho go the graveyard

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>>49629243
>Gauntlet of Might
One day...

>>49629245
Dang
Now that combo becomes harder to pull off.

>>49628777

I like wort for a storm-like Set up, doubling rituals by tapping gobbos is sweet, as is doubling shit like saproling symbiosis

Honestly the math involved is why I stopped playing that deck so much, doubling season and shit

>>49629420
Shit... this made me want to play Wort. Fuck.

>>49628013

I was building him as Bizarro Edric with focus on drawing cards for myself, but also forcing my opponents to discard...

...Then Leovold dropped and he just does it more efficiently.

>>49629447
FUCK LEOVOLD

Sack of shit asshole commander

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>>49629151
Mogis.

Heartless Hidetsugu, Lethal Vapors, Tainted Aether, Sulfuric Vortex, Rain of Gore, Dictate of the Twin Gods, Furnace of Rath, Havoc Festival, Manabarbs, Wound Reflection.

No more durdling, just pure death and hate from your friends.

>>49627926
>>49628755

Here is my starting list, It still needs alot of tooling but I really enjoyed it. It had alot of redundancy in the deck when it comes to win conditions and has a few solid ways to mass draw.

Start by slowly building tokens, then mid game sneak a win con and then summon the worm for max damage.

Obviously it needs some refining but for its test run it was freaking hilarious.

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/omnomnom-thromok-is-hungry/

Damn y'all niggas blew through this thread, migrate as you please

>>49629765
>>49629765

>>49629436

It was definitely an awesome deck and you don't have to build it as uninteractive as I did, it was all in storm for me but doubling stuff like naturalize and roast is also fairly sweet

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What are some "oh shit!" creatures you love to play? Preferably white (non-angel?)

>>49623656
I don't know if you're still here, but what are your thoughts on combining Enduring Ideal and Hive Mind?

>>49627973
>I'd also need to run a lot of Telepathy-type effects, though, right?
Actually, back when I had the deck, I took most of the telepathy stuff out because it didn't do enough. I still had some bounce, and other things that would help me know, but if all else failed, I would just name a basic land of their color. Half the time I'd nail it, the times I was wrong, I would now know all the cards in their hand for next time. Giving her doublestrike also worked really well.

>>49628928
I hate it when people don't know how to piolet their own decks or know how their own combos work.

>guy gets a shit eating grin on his face as he slams down Mike & Trike.
>"does everyone concede?"
>everybody groans
>i ask him to walk me through the combo, as that only seems fair
>he stares at his cards for five minutes
>"hmmm, I guess I need a sac outlet"
>the game continues as we quietly chuckle

>>49626883
>Voltron
>Actually cast him
>Chair Tribal
>Extort Tribal
>Upkeep trigger Tribal
It's really easy, think about what's optimal, and do the other shit.