SPAAACEEEEEE

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SPAAACEEE

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SPAAAAACEEEE

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SPAAACEE

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SPAAAACE SOON LADS

>>49591112
I want to believe. But why Mars, and not the moon, first?

>>49591316

Better gravity and more of an atmosphere, but not as far as away as Titan or Europa?

Or an atmosphere not made entirely out of sulphuric acid?

>>49591316
>>49591352

Because we've been to the Moon already and the Chinese and Russians are going there so time to one up them, again.

Real talk though the ITS is probably not going to be a thing by the 30s. It's for hype, mainly; the Super Dragons and Falcon Heavies will get us to Mars all the same.

And this is just to DO IT. Just to do it, so we can say we did it, so we know we can do it, and blah blah. Since Zubrin can't sell tits, much less Mars Direct; and even Mars Semi-Direct under NASA just amounts to a pat on the head and smokescreen funding by congress, we have to rely on semi-governmental and heavily subsided public corporations, and that gives us SpaceX.

Once we GET to Mars, the next step will be making it as cheap as possible to do so. This will mean a more permanent LEO station, industralization of the moon to make cyclers and spacecraft easier, etc.

But we can go to Mars anyway, so fuck it, we'll do it as the Chinese land on the Moon and the Russians scramble behind.

Let's hope we can keep up the momentum this time.

>>49591112
So the "Spaceship" is the vibrating part and the "Booster" is the handle? Right?

>>49591630

Yes. We're back to the classical space dildo school of spaceship design.

>>49590812
>taiidan republic
fuck, did that mod finally release?

>>49591641
Not that I mind that. But in that graphic atleast the booster looks an awful lot like some handle for something you'd pick up at the dollar store.

Children of a Dead Earth has a custom ship and gear editor, by the way. Ez to make realistic spaceships for all.

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>>49591112
>spaceX
>not NASA
Why would anyone get excited about some corp making the next big leap, or even want them to, rather than the nation itself.

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>>49591112

>>49591316
We've been to the moon. It was boring.

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Mai shippu.

>>49591999

Maybe because 1) Congress is full of term blinded idiots who love to cut corners on anything for points for 'doing something', 2) NASA is full of gen x idealists who fight with each other, up to the point of presenting ballooned up costly plans to destroy other plans in their own agency so their own pet project gets cash and that 3) half the populace will always see space travel as a needless expense.

So fuck them. There's nothing wrong with a corp to fill in where the government, quite plainly, refuses to go.

>>49592179
>There's nothing wrong with a corp to fill in where the government, quite plainly, refuses to go.
Except there is; it quite frankly cheapens the monumental wonder that is human space travel, and contains the achievement to an ignoble group.
If we're going to get boots on another planet, we're going to do it as a nation or as a species. Not some pet-corp of a glory-seeking autist trying to force his name into the history books,

>>49592211

In your idealistic dreams, maybe.

Nations and governments are fickle at the best of times. The 'species' will never do something together for the foreseeable future. NASA won't get to Mars. I'll be surprised if they even get an astronaut to a asteroid or the moon in the next two decades.

Some 'glory seeking "autist"' has stepped up to the plate. Fuck it. Let him have his glory, for 'science is a single light, and to brighten it anywhere is to brighten it anywhere'

>>49592297
>Fuck it. Let him have his glory, for 'science is a single light, and to brighten it anywhere is to brighten it anywhere'
And you're talking to me about idealism? This sets a dangerous precedent, anon, to allow such small and effectively uncontrolled group to make such a big leap. There is a right way to do things, a proper way to do things in order to insure that the future is a good one we want, and blindly leaping forward for the sake of "lets do it now" is not the way to do it.

Perhaps NASA won't "do anything" because of this sudden push to have private spaceflight do more than just orbital infrastructure; we're pushing duties and goals off to the private sector that ought to and need to stay in the public sector.

>>49592179

NASA should be getting more funding, mostly because they're actually extremely profitable. That money going into NASA to fund space flights and studies of distant stars or local planets and celestial objects, or even Earth itself from space or from the ground? Well, every mission has new problems to solve, this means new technologies to solve those problems. What do those new discoveries produce? New patents. Those patents have their rights sold to whoever sees the potential in them, and they're often sold off as a whole for more than the project itself cost, bringing more money into the US government.

The Tempur Pedic "Swedish" sleep system is made from NASA's memory foam. Car manufacturers use NASA designed paint for longer-lasting and more durable car paint, airplanes use their materials to keep from icing up, software designers can use NASA designed algorithms to program their own machines... Even shit like MRIs which give us a great look into the human body were originally designed as a means for satellites to spot space junk.

It pisses me off when people bitch about NASA spending money on space flight when there's problems on Earth, mostly because it's making up its costs and then some, being a government program that actually puts taxpayer money back into the system, and it's giving us a greater understanding of the universe, which can help us find solutions to a whole lot of these problems we have in the US. And, fuck, a lot of the problems we have are not the fault of NASA eating up pennies, but corps. So fuck SpaceX.

>>49592352
Yeah, we might end up with a international space law written solely to cater corporate interests and stellar objects seen solely as either resoutces or personal playthings of the rich.

>>49592352

Yes, it's idealistic to back the guy who has already gone halfway to recoverable rockets, is building the first private landbased spaceport, has a full agency with a rocket series; than to hope a stifled bickering government agency of a stifled bickering government in a stifled bickering world will do anything they seek out to do than give up half way because of a policy change or a new administration.

While Musk is no messiah, and I doubt he'll reach his plan for the IST or landing on Mars himself, he's filling a void, that quite frankly, yes, needs to be done right now, because no government is in a state to even put a man on the moon in two decades.

I'm quite sure the heavily regulated and monitored space industry is already doing things controlled, effectively, and the 'right way'. There's no going back to the anomaly that was Apollo era NASA. There's no benign government wasting cash in space. Space is a waste. An expensive waste. As it stands the only ones who can thus waste cash on it are the rich; and most of them, seeing no profit, won't touch it. And once Musk lands a small crew on Mars in the 2030s; maybe then the global economy would stabilize enough, maybe then the governments of the world will be rich enough to turn humanity into a multi planetary species, maybe they'll take up the slack, maybe they'll help build up the moon and thus build a solid state for Mars and beyond for the whole race.

Or most likely they'll do jack shit and turn away from space like they've always done, and that 'glory seeking autist' would had thus done more than three governments and that's better for the future 'we' want overall. Since he wants to break every dragon from radiation to lack of gravity to long interplanetary voyages, and further more since he's actually doing something right now, quite frankly that's what we got. Good enough for me.

>>49592393

It should. But most likely it won't.

Right now we have a post recession world at the turn of an administration of the world's hyperpower, with both plausible candidates not giving one damn to space. They care about the economy; they're not going to look at the frill which is manned space travel or Trans-GEO rocketry. So that's 4, 8 years of an administration paying more lipservice. Meanwhile the PRC makes a station and maybe if we're lucky as shit they land someone on the Moon, and then, having gained all the geopolitical prestige that entails (and all the fancy rocket tech and experiment results for their own ends) will back down. Then there are the Russians, who also are focusing on their economy first; I don't see them making even Mir II by 2024. India, JAXA, ESA are also nowhere near of even sending an astronaut on their own systems.

So 'fuck SpaceX', right, for actually spending cash on this stuff, when they quite frankly don't have to but do (say Musk dies tomorrow. I guarantee you SpaceX dwindles off a year from his death) because one rich kid decided to waste cash into it. Yea, fuck em hard.

>>49592497
>I'm quite sure the heavily regulated and monitored space industry is already doing things controlled, effectively, and the 'right way'. There's no going back to the anomaly that was Apollo era NASA. There's no benign government wasting cash in space. Space is a waste. An expensive waste. As it stands the only ones who can thus waste cash on it are the rich; and most of them, seeing no profit, won't touch it.
And that's where you're wrong. Space is a big, expensive waste, which is why it's PERFECT for government and national agencies to focus on it. They don't need to care about profit or return on investment, they just need to do it.

>And once ... the whole race.
No, once Musk lands some people on Mars, it'll just embolden other private interests not as idealistic and "moral" as Musk, and we'll have ruined once and for all the best chance for humanity to go out into the stars as one (or few), rather than many.

>and that 'glory seeking autist' would had thus done more than three governments and that's better for the future 'we' want overall. Since he wants to break every dragon from radiation to lack of gravity to long interplanetary voyages, and further more since he's actually doing something right now, quite frankly that's what we got.
And what he's actually going to end up doing if successfully is ruining the one chance humanity had for unity going out into space, he's going to set a precedent for space being a playground of the rich and corporations, rather than people and humanity.

>Good enough for me.
In your (and his) drive for "lets do it within two decades", you're throwing a stable and good future under the bus for your own lust of progress. There is no shame in waiting and doing it right.

>>49592211
>>49591999
>>49592352
You do realize the moon landing was only funded so the United States could show that it could launch nukes higher than the Soviet Union could if it wanted to, right? Any craft that can carry people can carry a nuclear warhead, that is one of the primary reasons why they were so dedicated to sending people even if they could send probes for cheaper.

You're an idiot if you think a state is any better than a corporation. At least SpaceX isn't doing this to show that they could kill us all if they wanted to.

>>49592592
>So 'fuck SpaceX', right, for actually spending cash on this stuff, when they quite frankly don't have to but do (say Musk dies tomorrow. I guarantee you SpaceX dwindles off a year from his death) because one rich kid decided to waste cash into it. Yea, fuck em hard.
Yes, do fuck them, because both you and Musk are short-sighted idiots concerned only with shiny tech and "oh look what we can do" rather than how to best move into this pivotal era of human history.
It's "I Fucking Love Science!" tier idiocy and triteness.

>>49592609
>You do realize the moon landing was only funded so the United States could show that it could launch nukes higher than the Soviet Union could if it wanted to, right?
>"this was one of the reasons to justify the program to congress, so the nation can't take any credit for this achievement" :^)
Go fuck yourself.
>You're an idiot if you think a state is any better than a corporation.
Except it is, and you put far too much faith in the markets.

>>49592607

Tell me, what profit or return on investment is SpaceX getting? At best they're squeezing out as much money from payload launches. There's no profit on Mars. There's no profit in the asteroids. There's no profit at this at all. SpaceX isn't doing Mars for cash.

"We'll have ruined once and for all the best chance for humanity to go out into the stars as one (or few) rather than many" - what the fuck. There's no reason to believe this. At best, some other rich guy makes his own rocket company to offer for his own dreams. NASA, Roscosmos, the PRC agencies - they'll still be around. But you also sound like you really think the UFP or UNSC is right around the corner. With most of the world poorer than the rest and no where near post-industrialization, it really isn't. Focusing on doing anything as a 'species' is, again, extremely idealistic.

Again, 'one chance humantiy had for unity going out into space'? NASA didn't invite the Russians or Chinese to the Moon; and they have no plans for doing so. If SpaceX wasn't here, we'll be no closer to a united humanity

Space is already a playground of the rich and corporations! SubOrbital Space Tourism, private communication satellite constellations, even private spacestations and even a official corporate lab that the shuttle lofted up which they rented for experiments.

And, finally, there's no reason to assume a'stable and good future', and there's no reason to assume this isn't the 'right way' just because it's not Kennedy backed Apollo - which itself was a lust for progress for a sliver of mankind to thumb its nose at the rest of mankind.

>>49592661
>"this was one of the reasons to justify the program to congress, so the nation can't take any credit for this achievement" :^)

No I'm sorry, you're right, the death of millions being the driving force for securing a budget is far more noble than a group that gets its funding from people willing to give it money for peaceful purposes.

>>49592633

There's nothing 'pivotal' about this 'era' of humanity that concerns itself with space.

You want to make a nice humanity? What'll be pivotal are more communication satellites (which are corporate owned), more stable economies in the developing world, more Ghanas and less Syrias. If you really think 'short sighted idiots' (who are doing more than the government) are going to crash Humanity, then you are idealistic to the extreme. At best this will be, yes, a 'oh look what we can do' footnote in history. It will change absolutely nothing for the other 7 billion people on Earth; but it will do a lot for science overall; again, science which NASA can't touch, when it even wants to touch it.

>>49592609
>At least SpaceX isn't doing this to show that they could kill us all if they wanted to.
...probably.

>>49592676
I'm honestly not going to argue anymore, since it's obvious the both of us have very different values and conceptions, but I am adamant that letting private space flight go out and lead the way is not the right way to move forward.

>which itself was a lust for progress for a sliver of mankind to thumb its nose at the rest of mankind.
Yeah, but at least that "sliver" was a proper nation, and not some pet-project corporation.

>>49592688
If the former is a nation and the latter is a corporation, then yes, it is far more noble.

>>49592756
>REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE STOP WANTING TO MAKE MONEY

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>>49592756
>If the former is a nation and the latter is a corporation, then yes, it is far more noble.

That is the most ass-backwards thinking I've ever heard. The advance of technology at the hands of private individuals for their own purposes is inherently less noble than the advance of technology by nation states for the express purpose of threatening species-suicide if they have to to prove an ideological point?

I can't even begin to comprehend how that makes any sense, on any level.

>>49592756

Be adamant. It's happening anyway. I'm the last person to defend corporations, I'm a solid Social Democrat pro regulation nordic model boohooey, but since

1) this isn't for profit, and
2) space is unprofitable, thus corporations WON'T follow anyway is a given, and
3) it fills in a gap where the government cannot fill even if it wanted to, there's no reason to be so against it.

SpaceX won't take the whole system for itself. It won't even make a colony on Mars. But it will simply work while the government cannot, when the government can waste cash like SpaceX can, they'll come back in. It's cyclic.

>>49592770
When it comes to space exploration and all that comes with it, yes; profit should not be part of the equation.

>>49592797
>The advance of technology at the hands of private individuals for their own purposes is inherently less noble than the advance of technology by nation states for the express purpose of threatening species-suicide if they have to to prove an ideological point?
Who said anything about technology? This is specific solely to space.

>>49592852

Space and technology is inseparable. Surely you know that a massive feat such as a heavy reusable lifter, unmanned supply runs to mars, then a crewed mission that lasts nearly three years to and on another planet will advance technology and science enormously.

>>49592852
Scenario 1:
Group 1: "Hey, you have experience building rockets, we want to go to space!"
Group 2: "We'll need funding for it, do you have x amount for us to build our rockets to take you to space?"
Group 1: "We sure do!"
Group 2: "Where's the money coming from?"
Group 1: "From our own bank accounts, it'll probably bankrupt us, but we really want to go to space!"

Scenario 2:
Group 1: "Hey, you have experience building rockets, we want to go to space!"
Group 2: "We'll need funding for it, do you have x amount for us to build our rockets to take you to space?"
Group 1: "We sure do!"
Group 2: "Where's the money coming from?"
Group 1: "From the bank accounts of people that don't want to go to space, it'll probably bankrupt them, but we really want to go to space!"

>>49592852
>Who said anything about technology? This is specific solely to space.

That doesn't make any sense either. What is it about space that makes it so semi-sacred? Exploring new territories has always been the province of rich dudes with money to burn in the search for more profits, it's not liable to change now.

>When it comes to space exploration and all that comes with it, yes; profit should not be part of the equation.

Literally everything humans have ever done has had an economic motive somewhere at its core. I'll agree our current conception of corporations often go too far. (Well, I suppose merchants always have, in a sense.) But implying this will ever get done just for some nonsensical ideal of glory and the human spirit is beyond blue-sky idealism. If it didn't profit somebody, somehow, it wouldn't happen. If the state does it, it just means some administration or singular official has it as a pet project, and it'll profit them by votes or jobs in their home district or some other equally mundane reason of economics or glory seeking.

>>49592906
B-but when the state does it, it's the 'will of the people!'

>>49592906
>taxes bankrupt people
>implying there aren't a lot of things the government spends money on that are far, far more wasteful than space
Let me guess, taxation is theft, right?

>>49592919
>If the state does it, it just means some administration or singular official has it as a pet project, and it'll profit them by votes or jobs in their home district or some other equally mundane reason of economics or glory seeking.
Theoretically, the "profit" of such long term initiatives on the part of the government is to improve the nation overall over time, expanding the economy indirectly and leaking new technology to the private sector, leading to larger tax revenue in the long term.

>B-but when the state does it, it's the 'will of the people!'
The same people who don't want to go to space? Fuck them and their will.

>>49592994

'Fuck them and their will'?

Yea, good luck having a united humanity rushing to space with that mindset. That's like the communists eventually hating the working class because they refuse to rise for their utopic vision.

>>49592994
>Let me guess, taxation is theft, right?
>The same people who don't want to go to space? Fuck them and their will.

So is this a like, state as absolute moral authority argument? That elected officials that represent the people should do whatever they think is best regardless what their constituents think? Or that only constituents who agree with you are 'real citizens' worthy of having their opinions represented? Taxation isn't theft, but it shouldn't be spent on enacting the will of the people that provided it? If it's only taken to pursue the goals of the government, then that is literally just stealing it to diddle themselves with.

>Theoretically, the "profit" of such long term initiatives on the part of the government is to improve the nation overall over time, expanding the economy indirectly and leaking new technology to the private sector, leading to larger tax revenue in the long term.

Are you high? The private sector can't go to space by itself, because they'd just use it to enhance their profits and the economy. The government has to do it, to give the technology to the private sector so they can advance their profits and the economy?

>>49593038
They're not going to be alive to enjoy that united humanity (and neither will you or I, for that matter), but not taking first step to bring it about because of their own wants and desires is, in my mind, nothing more than petty spite.

>>49592994
>Let me guess, taxation is theft, right?
If you don't pay your taxes you go to jail. You have no choice on what the government spends your money on. If the money goes towards good uses like directly improving peoples lives leading to less crime which improves your life it can be considered a necessary sacrifice.

>implying there aren't a lot of things the government spends money on that are far, far more wasteful than space
And they'll keep spending those tax dollars as long as people like you exist that are willing to sacrifice happiness for your own goals.

>The same people who don't want to go to space? Fuck them and their will.
Yes, fuck the poor that tax dollars could go towards improving their lives, right?

>>49592633

Well, actually Musk is deathly afraid of humanity's extinction, so he's investing his money into new technologies in a last-ditch effort to save it.

Why do you think he has his hands in so many pies? Space flight, electric tech, artifical intelligence... He's afraid we're going to get fucked over by ourselves so he's trying to spearhead technological development so we can avoid it.

So he's really taking the long view of things, rather than the short view and wanting to see shiny things.

>>49593066

You have gone down a dark road. For the 'common good' you'll abandon and detest the common people; who, newsflash, in a global recession don't just have 'wants and desires' to care for and pursue but even steady livelihood across the planet.

Space doesn't need a united humanity. It doesn't even need ten superpowers. All it needs is one group - government or corporate which will waste the money, have a plan, and hold the resources; even 50 billion could get someone to Mars or the Moon or have a nice station (or all three in some very penny pinching plans); while the global economy hovers around what - 70 trillion?

Fretting over...and demanding the uniformity of cause and support amongst the masses brings you no closer to a united humanity than the average joe who would cut NASA out of existence. I would say such a mindset is even toxic and would eat up those dreams even more than a successful push to dismantle NASA.

>>49590756

Where's this from?

>>49593243
X-Universe, a serie of games than aren't half bad apart of the last one.

>>49593243
http://store.steampowered.com/app/2820/

In short, imagine if a game like Freelancer evolved from 'one guy in a ship to 'small business empire' to 'corporate state' over the course of play. Start with shitty scout and pocket change, end by steamrolling the universe with multiple carrier battlegroups out of boredom.

>>49593261
>>49593285

neato

>>49593171
This. It doesn't matter who gets us to the colonization point, as long as we're there real progress can start. Let governments of the world focus on spending money on their citizens, private industry can take us to space and it should as it's entirely voluntary.

>>49593081
>If you don't pay your taxes you go to jail.
Yeah, that's how taxes work.
>You have no choice on what the government spends your money on.
It's not "your" money once it's taxes.

>If the money goes towards good uses like directly improving peoples lives leading to less crime which improves your life it can be considered a necessary sacrifice.
So only welfare is good? Tax itself isn't bad or even a sacrifice in the first place.

>And they'll keep spending those tax dollars as long as people like you exist that are willing to sacrifice happiness for your own goals.
Yes, "happiness" is less important than actual objectives and goals.

>Yes, fuck the poor that tax dollars could go towards improving their lives, right?
The tax dollars that already go towards them already ruin their lives.

>>49593366
>Let governments of the world focus on spending money on their citizens, private industry can take us to space and it should as it's entirely voluntary.
Please, welfare is the worst possible thing for the government to spend money on, and something being "voluntary" doesn't make it any better or worse.

>>49593396

If the government doesn't take care of its citizens, who give their money to it, yet you demand they follow it to whatever project it follows, then it's no government, it's a gang on a hugemonous scale. Citizens give to the government and the government's first concern is to use their resources for the citizens; not go off into space just because *you* think it's the best course for a better future that no one here will see; and if you can't see how people won't be onboard a government which, quite frankly, will misuse their taxes then you are detached from reality.

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>>49593396
So in your ideal world I get money taken away from me to fund whatever it is you feel like funding, but if I lose my job and can't pay for your pet project I don't even get an unemployment check in return for being a taxpaying citizen?

Wow, great society you have there, sign me up.

>>49593475

The guy's gone full Rousseau. You don't go full Rousseau. For the 'common good', fuck if the common man gets squashed over and thrown about, right?

Fuck whatever advances of the social contract, duties, and rights between citizen and gubbermint, we gotta go to spess dis way!

>>49593396

>doesn't like welfare
>pro-government, anti-corporate
>supports taxation
>tramples on the rights of taxpayers

What the fuck is this even? Classical Monarchist Liberal from 1700?

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SPESSSSSSS

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I need a system that does Space Fighters fun. Whatta ya got?

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>>49593628
Once upon a time, space ship design is great imho.

>>49593694
X-wing is fun.

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>>49593714
Can it handle being played online? A friend wants a space adventure

>>49593761
Only with TTS or a shitload of work, unfortunately. It might be better to take cues from its movement system and write something more hex-friendly.

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>>49593803
Dang, anything else you'd recommend?

>>49593883
Full Thrust is more a ship-on-ship wargame, but it's been suggested it could be refluffed into a dogfight sim. Especially if you track down the 'high res' rules and tweak it some to fit your character layer game.

The D20 starwars RPG had 'ok' space fighter rules you could maybe twist to your purposes.

Stars Without Number has a whole book for space combat, but it's not battlemat stuff, if you want actual positioning and stuff, take a pass on it.

That's...all I can think of offhand, unfortunately.

>>49593926
I'll check 'em out. Looks like I'm only going to have 1 player, but I'll see what I can do

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How many of you are playing this this week?

>>49594341
Explain further

>>49594449
Children of a Dead Earth. Super-realistic space combat strategy simulator. Think space CMANO, from what I've seen. Guy did an immense amount of research to make sure it was all as accurate as possible.

the Devblog is a gold mine of space-war related information. https://childrenofadeadearth.wordpress.com/

>>49591999
Because NASA hasn't accomplished anything of note since 1969. We sent men to the moon and promptly gave up trying to aim for any further manned exploration. SpaceX looks like it is actually capable of getting shit done and isn't funded by a fickle government that would gladly cut funding to NASA first because nobody actually gives a shit about NASA.

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>>49594449
>>49594491

Above poster here. Yeah CoDE has very realistic engine and powerful design tool, but the features are quite barebones so far. You have to decied if the pricetag is worth it for what is currently very much a beta. Ships need more possible orders in combat, interface needs to provide more information, you need to be able to customize custom battles in more ways, missileintercept calculations most certainly need some work, etc... So, very promising, I most certainly have a whole lot of fun playing with, but comparing it to CMANO at that point if a bit too much.

As an example, ball turrets have multi-axis of freedom build-in gyroscopes to avoid guimbal lock when firing near vertical, but can't reach target parallel to the hull, pic related would be so much more powerful if we could have traditional elevation+rotation turrets to allow forward fire concentration instead of having to orient broadside to unmask most guns.

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>>49594637

On the plus side, it will teach you how fission reactors work. An numerous other things.

>>49594637
Meant the comparison to CMANO as in 'dense and somewhat opaque simulationist wargame,' rather than as any indicator of quality. Good to know it's still got some work to do before I drop any of my scant cash on it though. o7

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>>49591438
>we have to rely on semi-governmental and heavily subsided public corporations, and that gives us SpaceX.

SpaceX is a fully private company (in fact, it's doubtful Musk will issue an IPO as long as he lives), is not semi-governmental, and the only subsidies it has ever gotten is $20M to construct a launch facility in Texas. Twenty fucking million dollars. Its funding has come from contracts with NASA, the Air Force, etc to either develop launch vehicles, to service the ISS, or to launch satellites; or it's been private capital from investors and Musk himself.

Whatever you think of the ITS plan's feasibility, the spaceship itself is certainly not just "for hype". SpaceX just signed a multibillion dollar contract with Toray to build carbon fiber tanks for it. Who knows if it's going to blow up five seconds after liftoff or reach Mars, but it's certainly going to be built.

>>49591316
I want Moon is a Harsh Mistress style moon first.
Use it as a shipping hub, jumping-off point, staging ground. Also magnetic catapults.

>>49592393
>Those patents have their rights sold to whoever sees the potential in them, and they're often sold off as a whole for more than the project itself cost, bringing more money into the US government.
ahahahah

Just make them public domain, and reap the passive benefits from minor boosting to the economy as a whole.

Patents and copyright are so fucked these days senpai.

>>49595308
>Global economy
>Spending money to develop things so third world shit hole can reap the benefit
Even more effective than sending them money.

>>49595270
Well if I remember properly you have basically no volatile to use as rocket propellant off the moon, or some that would be logistically complicated to extract and bring back in orbit.

Reaching the martian moons is cheaper is dV and are most probably chock-full of water right below the surface. They would make a much superior staging ground.

Elan Musk said we will have colonies on mars.

Do you want to believe?

The thing that gets me with the whole Mars shtick is that no one beyond NASA "testing" is putting legitimate thought into the EMdrive.

If we put Musks reusable rocket boosters and spacecraft into use we could build a nuclear powered EMdrive tug into space and use that to "pick up" spacecraft launched from earth and then drive-by drop them onto mars, and hoping that mars has the resources to build and fuel return ships have a permanent earth to mars pony express.

How or why has this idea not been put forward yet?

Surely a scaffold carrier with power, supplies and EMdrive engines would lower the cost of space even further? Hell, if it was big enough it could carry multiple craft, lowering the cost even more.

>>49591352
I think the upper atmosphere of Venus would be colonizable.
Imagine, zeppelin cities prior to any further terraforming.

>>49595738
We have to make sure they work first, why they work and what side effects there are. Hence the testing. We don't want to spend billions to build our special space tugboat only to realize it doesn't work or is shitting world crippling radiation when in space.

>>49595773
As long as whatever you build can survive the sulphuric acid cloud at those altitudes.

>>49595825
This is why science isn't going anywhere anymore. Everyone is too afraid to just fucking do it instead of sitting behind years of heavily funded tests upon test while really using the funding just to keep themselves running rather than any scientific advancement. Fucking cowards.

>>49595738
EMdrive was tested far more thoroughly than any magic drive should've been. It was silly to believe it could violate the laws of physics even before it was shown to be bullshit.

>>49595846
Yeah because wasting billions of dollars on a project that turns out not be physically possible is a great way to keep your funding and not look like a pathetic laughing stock of an organization.

>>49595944
Remind me of man made global war... I mean change.

>>49594802
>thermocouple options
but why tho

Also, a control rod made of fissile uranium? The fuck? You make those out of Boron. The point of a control rod is to absorb neutrons so you can control the reaction; u235 *creates* neutrons, not absorbs it, that's how a nuclear reaction works in the first place.

Aside from that it looks good, from a science point of view. I like that it's a fast reactor and not a thermal one. Makes sense for the size you'd need for a spacecraft. And also makes sense if you're using 97% enriched fuel, jesus that's some heavy stuff. Nuclear power plants use ~5% enriched fuel for fucks' sake.

>>49595846
>This is why science isn't going anywhere anymore.

Well, look at that, a real live moron.

Science is going places. But you're not bothering to check up where, or how fast. You just have your pet destinations that you watch, and then bitch about science not getting there specifically, without any thought given to how realistic that is, or what they may be doing instead.

>>49591999

NASA is a failed fucking agency that hasn't done anything of real merit since the moon landing.

Leave it to a corporation to succeed where government has failed to do so.

>>49596054
if you're using 97% enriched fuel, I have a feeling that shit's gonna be funny to watch as soon as it gets hit by literally anything

>>49596054
Ah, it's a mistake it should be U-233. which works just fine.

>>49596054
>but why tho
Because it determines your output and the best choices varies depending upon aforeselected options

>>49596123
That's no how criticality works. Since there is no cost associated so far with fissile enrichment we're having a whole lot of fun with stupidly overpowered compact devices.

>>49595838
Sulfuric acid isn't magic, It won't eat most plastics.

>>49596221
>Because it determines your output and the best choices varies depending upon aforeselected options
That makes absolutely no sense though. Thermocouples are measurement devices. Measurement devices don't (significantly) affect the system they're in.

>>49596327
Because in the case of a spaceborne nuclear reactor that's how you generate your power via Seebeck effect.

>>49596392
Huh. Well I'll be. Makes sense though. You learn something every day.

>>49595838
Venus may sound cool, which makes any rational person suspicious, but it's actually a far more practical prospect than Mars. Sulfuric Acid is nothing to worry about, a large quantity of plastics can hold concentrated sulfuric acid for decades without any sign of wear, and on top of that the clouds on Venus won't be in such a dense form.

In fact those acid clouds are one of the greatest things about Venus, because they are CHOCK FULL of water. On Venus you don't have to mine to get your water, and you don't have to build infrastructure to pump your water, you only have to sift the outside clouds from the safety of your own habitat.

Venusian winds are something to worry about, yes they are moving incredibly fast, but they are fairly predictable and move in a uniform direction direction unlike the winds on Earth. Structures can be fortified to withstand the winds fairly easily. On top of that, that if these winds didn't exist a "day" on Venus would be equivalent to 243 days on Earth due to Venus's slow rotation, but an object that is being pushed by the winds experiences a "day" that is only 4-5 days on Earth. Winds on Venus would also make for FANTASTIC wind power.

Temperatures at habitable pressures are hot on Venus, but not TOO hot. At the equivalent air pressure of living at La Rinconada, Peru, the outside atmosphere is only 27C out, and at the sea level equivalent the temperature is 75C, in between these two points you've got a perfectly habitable, if a little hot, 30-40C. Heat energy is also another great source of power generation.

Yes, Venus does not have a magnetic field, which is bad, but the atmosphere is so thick that it has what's called an induced magnetosphere. Venus is able to give equivalent radiation protection through its induced magnetosphere and the density of its atmosphere to the point where a colony at the habitable altitude would get about as much radiation as the average Canadian citizen.

(continued in part 2)

>>49595577

Might be easier to terraform Venus than Mars. Even then it would require some serious fuckery to accomplish.

For the guy against Elan Musk exploration.

In his mars presentation Elan raised a valid point. In the past civilizations made great discoveries and then forgot them staying stagnant for centuries.

India had ships able to cross oceans, but the rulers focused on internal politics and the ones eventualy crossing the oceans were the Europeans.
We are at tha tpoint now. All nations are focused on struggle between themselves and nothing else. If Elan don't go to Mars, NASA won't go to Mars in 2040, I seriously fear we will not get to Mars for a couple of centuries.

And if we manage to annihilate ourselves we will never get there.

Fuck. We need to plan for the fucking extintion events. Or we end up as the fucking dinosauros.

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What happened to Mars One?

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>>49595773
>zeppelin cities
I alwasy immagined Venus cities as giant bubbles with people inside of them.

>>49597022
Its founders were either scammers or delusionally optimistic. So far they've raised about $1M in funds, the $6B TV deal they had hoped to negotiate with the Dutch company behind Big Brother has been scrapped, and their "astronaut selection process" consisted of favoring people who donated them more money, and interviewing each candidate for 10 minutes on Skype.

https://medium.com/matter/mars-one-insider-quits-dangerously-flawed-project-2dfef95217d3

>>49596709
(part 2)

Venus is the perfect planet for trying to reach as well.

The launch window for an ideal trip to Venus is once every 583 days compared to the Martian launch window of every 780 days. In addition, a trip to Venus would take roughly half the time as a trip to Mars meaning significantly less supplies would be required to on the vessel to Venus and you could even opt for having a tiny vessel as the psychological impact of the trip will be far lower as well.

You can save a significant amount of mass on your vessel by performing an aerocapture, which is far easier to do on Venus than it would be on Mars, as Venus is a much larger target to hit with a wider "cushion" to slam into. In fact, the point on Venus that starts to resemble the martian atmosphere in terms of pressure is at 80km.

Getting off of Venus and back on Earth would be hard, yes, you will need significant delta v. You do get some help from the atmosphere when it comes to getting off of Venus. However, Venus being so full of sources of energy and materials for ISRU you can harvest your return fuel on Venus far easier than you could on Mars. Mars has a serious lack of energy for production, solar energy is pretty pitiful, and there's practically nothing else the planet itself offers besides that, on Mars you'd basically need to ship nuclear reactors to get any serious production going. Also, you wouldn't be launching your return vehicle from the sea level equivalent on Venus, you would use hydrogen balloons to lift your return vehicle up to a point in the atmosphere where a rocket launch would require minimal fuel expenditure. On Venus hydrogen becomes significantly more effective at lifting as the atmosphere of Venus has a far heavier chemical composition.

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>>49597130

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Back to ships!

Got a trio of these coming later in the week, thinking about a two-tone grey-green splinter camo scheme, but I need an accent color. Ideas?

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>tfw Covenant Supercarrier is the biggest "mainstream" sci-fi ship I've seen
>Almost 10,000km longer than a Super Star Destroyer

>>49590840
That image is awful and whoever made it should be ashamed of themselvess.

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>>49598271
Pretty gnarly big, yeah.

>>49598271
How does that stack up to the larger Culture GSVs?

>>49598271
>10,000km
>TEN THOUSAND KILOMETERS.
>The earth has a diameter of 12,742 km

Fucking Eurofags I swear.

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>>49595162

This is where you and I differ. It's definitely for hype, at the least how it was shown. The tanks will be developed because the tanks can be used for other heavy lifter concepts. But I doubt a winged space 'boat' with a five story cabin will be the first thing to make it to mars when they can loft up a can, keep the astronauts busy with exercise, technology use, maintenance and recording health and scientific exercises than giving them windows.

The ITS as it was shown was for colonization. SpaceX, while great, does have a bit of a squashed schedule. They also want to put a million people on mars, 100,000 launches, and he himself wants to go.

Quite frankly I don't think that's going to happen and it's wiser to scale back expectations; it's good enough they'll send a crew; it's good enough they've all but adopted the semi-direct plan, it's good enough they're developing VTVLs, (and hopefully one day SSTO VTVLs). Then maybe if we're lucky we send a base by the mid century.

>>49595412

Aluminium Oxide.

>>49595270

The Moon will become industrialized. But there's no reason to build it up when we can shoot for Mars. It'll be industrialized and colonized when there's a need for it; not when there's no one out there.

The plans which always include the full industrialization of space tend to become the most bloated and thus kill the program. See the SEI of the 90s - the ISS, the shuttle, a moon base, then Mars with a huge cruiser. Nuh uh. Too expensive and too grand.

These things have to come piecemeal. Right now the moon is good for one thing only - telescopes of all wavelenghts on the dark side, which we could send a crew towards. Then we can help push self sustainability via using lunar resources, and then maybe down the road we establish bases on the poles, then maybe bases at historical sites, and then maybe by that time you have 100 people at a time on the Moon, in LEO, and on Mars; and then someone gets the idea to use the Moon's Uranium and Aluminium to build ships in orbit of it, maybe someone decides to test the space elevator there, and then it starts to come to fruition.

>>49596886

That was more China. India (the Cholas specifically) had a huge fleet; but the Muslims from the north destroyed it over time to enforce rule and force trade overland. That's not happening here. In China the new ming dynasty sent out ships but it was send as costly and needless and even a bit of a threat, so the fleet was cut down from the mid 1400s onwards; and even then it still beat the Portugese a few times afterwards. That's more what's happening here - Space is seen as costly, seen as awaste, and even a bit dangerous, so it's ignored.

But I absolutely agree. Musk and Zubrin are broken records but they're right: there's no more frontier. We're no longer pushing ourselves. Space offers that.

>>49598783

>>49595162

Just to put that into perspective, there have been around 10,000 launches into space; most in the 10-1 ton range or so.

Musk wants us to put 100,000 launches with a million people.

Do forgive me if - as I grew up with the disaster that was the Shuttle ('50 launches per year, they said, in actuality 150 missions over thirty years and twice its expected lifespan) and the bloated monster of the ISS (30 billion expected, 130 billion actual and nearly 30 years behind schedule) that I'm skeptical and reserved.

Musk is great. I'll suck his dick. SpaceX is awesome. But they're not miracle workers.

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>>49599085
This is my opinion too, but it's irritating listening to fanboys talk about him.

I've recently gotten into an argument with some people who are CONVINCED that the recent accident was caused by Snipers from ULA, possibly with the help of "The Government"

>>49591316
While I'm personally all for the moon before Mars, there is a very serious problem with the moon absorbing a ton of asteroid impacts (meaning they don't hit the earth, which is great for the earth) so building bases on the moon will be fraught with danger and have to be built to withstand minor asteroid impacts (which are not small things when they hit with virtually no atmosphere to slow them).

However, it's been recently discovered that huge parts of the Moon have massive cave systems, so we might be able to build underground settlements and facilities with relative safety.

>>49598697
Yeah I meant 10km. Dunno why I said 10,000

I'm Israeli btw, so go ahead and get your Jew rage out.

>>49599182

Oh gods I just saw some of that as well. Musk is also a wee bit eccentric - he fears being assassinated, and he wants to land on Mars himself. And now he said there was a ULA guy who asked to get on the roof, then a week later, blamo.

It's way over the red line to have come out to the public to have suggested it (while 'not suggesting it'). ULA and SpaceX are competitors; but to even hint at corporate sabotage is a nogo zone. If Musk wanted to cover all leads, he could had done it without dropping that line to the press. Now everyone has gone from 'this guy is crazy and wants to do this fro Mars' to 'this guy is paranoid and crazy'. Never good.

>>49598271
>biggest "mainstream" sci-fi ship I've seen
Technically, the Death Star was a ship rather than a space station, since it moved around instead of sitting in orbit.

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>>49598271
>>49599248

Obligatory

>>49599274
>dat Dune ship
Jesus Christ.

I never realized just how outrageously overpowered the Spacing Guild was compared to the rest of the factions in Dune.

>>49599274
So what IS the ideal size range for spaceships?

The size of actual warships (A few hundred meters)
Star destroyer scale (up to a few km)
City scale (10s of kilometers)
Bigger?

>>49599299

When the emperor and house lords suck your vagina-face-lips when you so much as look at em, you'd better have their balls so tightly held that they'll be suicidal not to kiss.

even CHAM couldn't do shit without the guild.

>>49599299
All the factions in dune only exist because the Guild allows them to. Even Paul only conquered the galaxy because he literally has them by the balls.

No spice, no guild
No guild, no galactic anything.

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>So many posts and nobody posted her.
Godspeed.

>>49599515

>horizontal windows
>riding the alcubierre drive hype for funding

I was disappointed in NASA that day.

>>49599534
>horizontal windows
Well, what sort of windows would you use?

There's no certainty that vertical deck stacking would simulate gravity with an Alcubierre drive, since it's basically fueled by Event Horizon tier dimensional fuckery.

>>49598783
>The tanks will be developed because the tanks can be used for other heavy lifter concepts
Sorry, but that's not possible. SpaceX has no other heavy lift rocket concepts the tanks would fit in. They're huge, 2m wider than a Saturn V. A month ago, they signed a $2B+ contract for the materials. They're not going to pay billions of dollars just for fun, on the off chance that they might develop a bigger Saturn V sometime in the future. The BFR has been in the design stage for years, and its size has stayed mostly the same since early 2014 when the Mars Colonial Transporter was first annouced. They just need to test the Merlin engines on Falcon Heavy test flights first.

And of course a crewed ITS won't be the first thing they'll send to Mars, a couple of unmanned Dragon capsule plus an automared ITS cargo vehicle will land first. If there are problems they can just postpone the schedule by two years to try and fix the bugs.

A 1,000-ship colonial fleet carrying 1M people to Mars within 40 years would be pure fantasy even if this became a global effort, but a handful of ships carrying dozens of people each, establishing base with a hundred or so people after a two or four year delay to solve any issues that arise is certainly realistic.

>>49599560

Yea, I'll still have a vertical layout. Let's be gracious and say we can fold space. That doesn't mean there won't be fission or fusion thrusters in case the drive goes down (or can't be used in a system or near a planet at all); much less tertiary systems such as the RCS.

More like this:

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>>49599668

>>49599407
https://childrenofadeadearth.wordpress.com/2016/09/03/go-small-or-go-home/

Actually just read an article about this.

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>>49599248
>>49599274
>>49598271
Nice toys.

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>>49599763
Would earth even survive this ship landing on it?

>>49599651

I know they're not sending the manned thing first, thats why I said the 'semi-direct plan'; eg, put down supplies first, crew later.

But the truth of the matter is you don't need dozens of people on Mars; nor is establishing a base of a hundred people after four years in any way realistic, because the data from the first crew across would barely had been stored by then.

And there was the Falcon XX, which right now is as real as the ITS, which is still not at all. SpaceX is still on the Merlin1, the Raptor has just started testing, the Dragon hasn't lofted up crew yet, the Falcon Heavy hasn't been launched.

2Billion also goes into around a few rockets; most of which will be test rockets and mockups and unmanned launches. They're still nowhere near the ITS; and what I'm saying is that along the way they will cut back on payload; they'll cut back the launch schedule plan, they'll face problems, and most likely will send a few government astronauts in the 2024-2026 launch range to Mars ala semi-direct; cutting payload while increasing mass ratio.

As it thus stands to believe the ITS will carry dozens, make a base of a hundred, and fly around is all hype'd up idealism. I've seen it before, I've seen it promised over three administrations in various forms, and then nothing goes to plan. It'll be better overall to curb idealism for realistic expectations.

>>49599774
Probably not but, despite its size, it did appear in the movie to be mostly air by volume. Between that and the gravitic tech that kept it together, it's possible it wouldn't have completely ruined the planet. That's really giving the movie the benefit of the doubt though.

>>49599407

As someone who likes mundane-hard scifi, the range seems to be around from 20m to around 200m, with up to 1km for antimatter or torch drive ships, most of which for all are composed of reaction mass.

>>49599827

right now the ITS mass ratio looks at around 2 to 2.5; though the staging and refueling bumps it up to 4. And the trip is expected to take 115 days? Is that either way or in total? They can increase the mass ratio up to 3 or even 4; they can burn more delta V and cut the time down to something not so damn long, IMHO

>>49592497

'building the first private landbased spaceport'

beaten to the punch, SpaceX has. Who's this kiwi douchebag?

http://www.space.com/34195-rocket-lab-opens-private-launch-site-new-zealand.html

>>49596069
But the government hasn't failed at refueling a spacecraft in nearly half a century.

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Not sure if they are actual spaceships. Close enough, anyways

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>>49599827
Privately held companies like Blue Origin and SpaceX have little to do with the US government's (lack of) plans for a Mars program. Like you said, successive administrations have different priorities and promises are easily broken. But these private companies' policies don't change every four years. Jeff Bezos, who is vastly richer than Musk, also has similar plans for large space colonies. I believe in these companies not because of idealism, but because both have delivered on their previous promises, like successfully building reusable orbital and suborbital rockets, because they don't need to make a quick profit for their shareholders, and because their bosses don't get constantly reelected.

We don't *need* to send more than 4-6 people to Mars to do science, just like we don't need the ISS to perform experiments in space, but the people who are planning to advance manned space exploration and have the money to do so *want* to send way more people there.
http://www.geekwire.com/2016/jeff-bezos-blue-origin-space-mars-moon/

Also, SPAAAAAAAACEEEE

>>49599700
I'm talking about in general though, not hard sci-fi.

However, It's worth pointing out that the culture seems to follow those rules, at least for it's warships. Their GSVs may be dozens of kilometers long, but those are flying cities. Their actual warships are all tiny.

>>49601361

their policies don't change every four years, no. They change when something is too expensive to do. And a hundred people - or even a dozen people - for a half-year long journey fits very high to that mark; and I think that despite all their dreams and plans they still will have to bow to reality like everyone else. Even a crew of ten would require around 30 tons of food and water for a month; for the (stupidly long) 115 day trip that's around 120 tons. 120 tons of food and water - see the problem there? That's onboard the craft itself; unless they adopt a Von Braun strategy of a flotilla of cargo and supply ships they'll most likely tone themselves down.

No one will blame them for accepting a more modest crew of around 5 or 6; no one will blame them for landing on Mars. But if they themselves try to hinge on hype and hundred-strong bases, then they're going to run into trouble, no matter how rich they are.

Again, I've seen the world's sole hyperpower, which holds more resources and power than any corporation, tumble for the last half century on projects. I know hype when I see it, from the Shuttle to the SEI to Constellation.

SpaceX selling hype is just that - hype. And there's nothing wrong in calling it out, nor would anyone suffer for expecting a more modest mission.

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>>49601832

These seem to be culture warships. With all their fancy tech, a scale of 350M (which is a thousand feet anyway) is reasonable.

>>49599407
Halo approaches this quasi-realistically. The UNSC warships were only as big enough as required to carry squandrons of fighters and MAC weapons. So they were small for sci-fi starship standards, around 1,000km for "capital" class

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>>49599763
So what exactly is the largest space construct in sci-fi? IIRC the Forerunners in Halo built a Dyson Sphere with a diameter of 300 million square km. That's the largest I know of.

>>49602329

There have been galactic-sized cities. Scifi has done everything; most of the time it just hasn't been popular.

Amongst popular scifi, Halo most likely has the crown; people know about the Rings and that forerunner thing.

>>49599763
>Warhammer 40K
>Space Strider

Dafuq is dis?

>>49599274
Background is black because of the SDSD Freudian Nightmare...

>>49602529
My guess is that it was misnamed... I don't know what it is, but even scouring the wikis and stuff doesn't find anything.

>>49602529
dunno, no one seems to know what the fuck it is, other than it's some kind of space hulk.

>>49602529
>>49602589
>>49602596
I think it's meant to be the world engine

>>49599085
Well If he accomplish 10% of what he is boasting I'm fine.

I also don't believe he will get those 1milion guys on mars, But even a small crew would be good for me.

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>>49602310
You aren't the only person to conflate meters and kilometers in this thread. UNSC ships are unlikely to be a significant % of the size of the earth, as a rule.

>>49601832
>general not hard
Whatever the fuck you want, then, m8. It's all going to be made of bullshitium and have no other purpose but to serve the plot anyway.

>>49602329
Largest is probably some Downstreamers shit

>>49591999
>NASA is the one true god of space exploration
The only two things that truly stand out with them, is the first docking in space, and the moon landing.
Out of those, the first is impressive, while the second one was just the American government throwing money at something the Soviets have already accomplished with Luna 9 with a worse economy and a smaller budget, putting some people in it to make it seem more scientifically important somehow while really it was nothing more than America beating its chest and proclaiming what everyone already knew: They have more money and resources than they know what to do with, so it's no problem for them abandoning an extra few tons off fuel and metal in space, and then declaring that they've "won" the space race, while the Soviets were long under way being the first conducting controlled entries into Venus' atmosphere and doing many, many other things.

If anything, SpaceX "winning" here, would be more of a win, because at least it would actually hint at the American way allowing anyone to do anything, as it claims to be; which supposedly was the whole reason they were against "those damn commies".

>>49593761
whoa, cool art.

>>49594341
I am ok with the orbital maneuvers but still suck at actual combat. Can't even kill the laser ship on the 3rd level.

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>>49604341
On the off chance you didn't recognize what the picture is supposed to be off:
Welcome to Homeworld.

>>49595846
When my research group recently applied for some funding I was amused by the fact that all of the people involved, both those writing and those reading the research proposals pined for the good old days when you could get something done without a mountain of paperwork. That which once could be done with a two sided paper now requires over one hundred pages. It is depressing when you have a simple proposal for a scientific study, but you need to include estimates on how many new jobs funding your work is going to create in five years.

>>49604561
Hiigaara. Our home.

>>49601251
This, was it three rockets they blew up recently in their attempts?

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>>49604023
Wow, you're daft.

>>49592497
>Musk
Give up right there anon, he's just a con man selling you promises he doesn't intend to fulfill.

>>49605081
Landings after successful missions have had more failures, but the rocket's payload was only destroyed in the launch pad explosion and the June 2015 mission. Falcon 9's success rate of 93% counting the launchpad explosion, and 96% if you calculate it like it's normally done, are borh above industry average.

>>49603031
No the world engine is clearly up in the top right with the overscale objects.

I'm finishing my major in a year.

After this thread I'm considering applying for SpaceX.

Throwing 5 years of my life and 10 years of my nerves for a Mars dream doesn't seem a bad deal.

>>49599274
This needs a GSV from the culture added - I think the empiricist is something like 200x80x10 km or so? - granted, it is one of the bigger ones.
Sadly, very few good pictures of what a GSV looks like exist.

>>49599274
I maintain the belief some of those Imperium of man ships are smaller than they should be.

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>>49602097
That's about the same size of a real life aircraft carrier.

>>49602310
>1000km

Even if you mean 1km, that's still absurdly large compared to any earth-going vehicle. The largest seagoing vessel isn't even half that.

It's also more or less the going average for sci-fi space battleships.

>>49605662
>>49598525
Culture GSVs range in size from 3km (Desert class) to 200km (System class)

They all look like chrome ovals though. The "Hulls" are forcefields.

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Not that chrome ovals can't be aesthetic as fuck in their own right. And not that some of the designs on the chart already aren't as featureless.

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There is however this fanart of a plate class GSV, without it's fields up. Specifically the sleeper services from Excession.

Yes those are mountains on the top. The official dimensons are 50x20x4km, so the artist has taken liberties with how tall it is. The real thing would probably look like the name implies.

>>49598697
If he really was from europe 10,000km would be 10km with three decimals for accuracy. We use the , instead of the . to separate integers from decimals over here.

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>>49604358
Stuff you learn: The higher the temperature your reactor runs, the smaller the surface you need to radiate a given amount of excess heat. And radiators weigh a fuckton.

>>49604358
Put your ship on a close-ish orbit without engaging it with your own capital, then launch a couple of enthusiastic waves of flak missiles to overwhelm its defenses.

>>49606892
>Side ships
REEEEEEEEEEEEEE
They need to let us put more than one type of weapon on the front of the ship other wise normal ships can't compete

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>>49607118
Most definetly, yes, i do agree there is still a lot of work. I want pic related to be competitive.

>>49606517
Yeah that's what I was saying. He clearly meant 10km or 10000m, but he wrote it as 10000km. The only way that would be correct is if he was using the European decimal convention.

Which by the way is completely awful. You guys criticize us Americans for using imperial units, but mixing commas and periods like that is much worse.

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>>49603886
The question is aesthetics. Which is cooler. Which satisfies your sense of scale.

I'm personally kind of torn between thinking things like Serenity and the Falcon are too small to take seriously as interplanetary (or in the falcon's case interstellar) spaceships, but at the same time, I think multi-kilometer long star destroyers are excessive.

I suppose it's okay for advanced civilizations to have Manhattan sized city ships though, as long as dedicated warships are more efficiently built. At any rate, the engines, power source, and weapons should be more substantial. I'm sick of seeing warships laid out like cruise liners with jet engines and AA guns bolted onto the sides.

http://www.merzo.net/indexSD.html
>Starship Dimensions has retired!
>We have decided to formally retire Starship Dimensions, after an amazing experience of more than a decade and millions of visitors. We will maintain the site in an archive capacity for the forseeable future, but will no longer be updating the ships.

>We are moving on to darker pastures, but for everyone out there who is looking for up-to-date scale charts, an excellent alternative project that is still being updated can be located here:

>Dirk Loechel' s Science Fiction Spaceships Size Comparison Chart

http://dirkloechel.deviantart.com/art/Size-Comparison-Science-Fiction-Spaceships-398790051

>The last update

>For real this time: This is the final major content update, though if there are issues I'll still fix them. I also haven't forgotten I wanted to vectorize the writing. It's still on the radar. But content-wise, I think that is about all I can put in.


Can we do better?

>>49608669
I really like Homeworld take of it for scale. With a few more guns and a bit bigger capitals tough, the Hiigaran battle cruiser needed a lot more towers.

>>49609562
Yeah, homeworld's super capitals are disappointing. They are big for the sake of being big, and they don't have nearly enough guns to justify their size.

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>>49609562
This mod is verging the too many turrets for my taste, but at least it looks like a powerful Battlecruiser and justifies the size.

>>49609757
>No dorsal/ventral weapons symmetry
It bothers me to extends I can hardly describe.

>>49592146
No it wasn't. We learned that the moon is composed of nearly the same material as the Earth so the story of how Earth formed had to be rewritten. Look up Theia and learn.

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>>49609810
>>49609757
One less heavy turret on the top, and two more medium turrets on the bottom. IDK about the small ones, but the front better be an array of spinal mount cannons. Bitches love spinal mount cannons.

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>>49609810
I can see the asymety making sense if you consider that each turret has a barrette under it and that the hull just isn't thick enough for two turrets at a time. Asymetry on a long-wide-flat ship like the BC could work if the turrets alternated size, but still had an even distribution.
However, they clearly manage to fit two turrets into the rear section, along with the engines and hangar bays, so ultimately it just looks like they had an odd number of turrets and put them "Wherever"

It looks like they were planning on giving the Battlecruiser a spinal mount weapon, but then they decided that a super capital that takes out other super capitals at long range would not adhere to the rock paper scissors paradigm, and made the battlecruiser a frigate killer with a turret mounted beam cannon.

It makes sense in terms of game design (everything else is just an accessory to it's turreted beam cannon) but astheticly it results in a ship with a huge useless front section.

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Dumping norsehound's LOGH ships.
>http://norsehound.deviantart.com/gallery/2449241/LOGH-ships

トリスタン Tristan
Tristan was assigned to Oskar Von Reuantal, one of the "Twin stars" of the Empire under the Lohengramm dynasty. Like the Beowulf it was a new design produced from the results of the Brunhild's innovations.

Unlike Beowulf, Tristan had a small-scale X-Ray beam cannon in the nose. Forward weaponry was reduced because of this.

After Reuantal's uprising and subsequent defeat, Tristan was moored at Heinessen while the Admiral awaited his best friend- and death- in his provincial headquarters. It is unclear what happened to Tristan following the admiral's death- weather it was repaired or not or even remained on Heinessen.

ベイオウルフ Beowulf
Sister ship to the Tristan and under the command of Wolfgang Mittermeyer- the "Gale Wolf" and other half of the 'twin Stars' of the Empire. Though Mittermeyer's skills and speed lend him to be deployed more often than Reuantal, Beowulf was in the line of fire nearly twice as often and received battle damage on several occasions.

Beowulf mounts six bow-mounted cannons in the nose, strengthening its forward battery. Like Tristan, Beowulf also benefited from the reflecting hull structure pioneered by the Brunhild and so has a higher defense in the bow.

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Don't read these blurbs if you don't want spoilers.


トリグラフ Triglav
Triglav was a trial design for a new command battleship that would replace the Patroclus model. Though the design was sound, after the disaster of an invasion into Imperial territory production was halted, and Triglav became the only one of her kind.

Though she has more forward gun ports than even the Kulishna (80 ports v 60) are smaller (22cm) than the Patroclus design.

Originally Triglev was supposed to mount new reactors, but financial pains forced the reactors from the space carriers to be mounted instead. Nevertheless, this is more power than the standard design, so Triglev is able to fire all her batteries at full power. Her only limitation is overheating, but the fact that Triglev has three separate batteries means she can fire constantly despite overheating.

Triglev was the warship of Dusty Attenborough during his time under Yang's leadership up until the battle at Vermillion starzone. Per the treaty of Balarat, Triglev was scrapped.

バルバロッサ Barbarossa
Originally Siegfried Kircheis was supposed to get a sister ship to the Brunhild, but Admiral Kircheis declined and instead got the Barbarossa, an improved Brunhild design. It is the only flagship of the entire Imperial fleet to be painted in one color: red, to match the Admiral's hair.

Barbarossa went into battle approximately 60 times, mostly during the Lippstadt conflict where Kircheis put down small rebellions in remote regions. Before this, Kircheis fought Yang Wen-Li in one occasion and participated in the disaster at Amlitzer.

Following Kircheis' death, Barbarossa was moored permanently in birth 2 at Odin's fleet yards, a memorial to the best friend of the most powerful man in the universe.

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ダグダ Dagda
Representative of the standard battleship design of the Imperial forces of the Goldenbaum dynasty cira 750 Space Calendar, specifically during the second battle of Tiamat. Dagda was a formation leader in the Imperial fleet during the battle, and was caught in a crossfire and destroyed when the Free Planets Alliance forces successfully predicted their actions.

エッセン Essen
Essen was one of the battleships in the fleet that encountered the Free Planets Alliance forces in Space Year 640. Though Essen herself was destroyed, ships of her class persisted long afterwards. Given its age, most of these ships are in private fleets.

Essen is not canonically named in the animation. The only battleship named is the Gottingen, but I can't make out the Bablefish translation Xx;

ライン Rhine
The Rhine was one of the battleships to participate at Amlitzer within the fleet under Willibald Joachim von Merkatz. She remained with the Merkatz fleet, but during the flight of the nobles under Littenheim, the crew was torn between their loyalties. A mutiny occurred a third of the way into the voyage to Geisburg fortress and she came under the command of Pro-Lohengramm forces. She surrendered herself to the Metermeyer fleet, where she was recommissioned under the Lohengramm banner.

She remained with the Metermeyer fleet up until the end of the series, suffering damage while fighting with the Reuantal forces.

Rhine is a creation of my own, not emphasized in the series.

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ヒューベリオン Hyperion
The most famous vessel of the Free Planets Alliance around 796 Space Calendar (487 Imperial Calendar), she was the flagship of Yang Wen-Li through most of his service as an admiral in the FPA space fleet. It was also the flagship of the 13th fleet, which was originally comprised of survivors from past battles and new blood fresh from training.

Hyperion is an older model command warship, previously the 3rd Remote Region flagship before it's reassignment to the 13th fleet. Inferior to the newer line of command cruisers (Patriclous type) with only 80% of the forward firepower, she also only carries 24 spartianarian one-man fighters.

The Hyperion would eventually come under the command of Willibald Joachim von Merkatz, while Yang transferred his flag to the lucky Battleship Ulysses. Eventually Hyperion took a critical hit, killing Merkatz, though it is not sure if the Hyperion was completely destroyed, or only crippled beyond repair. Regardless, her grave is just within the Alliance side of the Iserlohn corridor.

ブリュンヒルト Brunhild
Brunhild was an experimental design with a high emphasis on defense. It's structure, combined with additional defense screens, theoretically gave it a high survivability rate. It's many brushes in combat (given the mentality of her commander, Reinhard von Lohengramm), are testament to the survival power of the battleship.

As an experimental design, Brunhild was considered for mass production, but her costs went beyond ten times that of the original estimate. Nevertheless, copies are said to exist. When she was delivered to Reinhard's command, her trials had already been completed. It is thought that Reinhard was allowed command of the Brunhild because it's over-reliance on defense was not desired by Imperial commanders.

Brunhild would survive the duration of the entire series, first appearing at the battle of Legmiza and conveying Reinhard to Phezzan at its end.

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Brunhilde ( ブリュンヒルト )
The Brunhilde was laid down in 486 RC (Reich Calendar) as the prototype to a new class of battleship. While she lacks the traditional forward-facing canons of the standard battleships of the time, her curved hull incorporates a magnetic reflection field which can deflect most particle shots directed at the ship.

The Brunhilde was assigned to Reinhard von Müsel as his flagship when he made it to Admiral at age 20. Because his sister was concubine to the Emperor, many thought that his quick ascension in rank was due to favoritism by the Emperor. However, time and again Reinhard would prove his tactical and strategic brilliance while at the helm of the Brunhilde- matched only by "miracle" Yang Wen-Li of the Free Planets Alliance space fleet.

The Brunhilde would last through the entire run of Legends of the Galactic Heroes- making her first chronological appearance under Reinhard's command during the battle of Legmiza. She would eventually come to serve as supreme flagship of the Goldenbaum, then Lohengramm, dynasties and eventually the "Palace" to Reinhard's leadership.

----------------------------
Standard Imperial Battleship ( 標準戦艦 )
This is the standard Imperial Battleship of the Imperial forces on the side of the Empire in LOGH. It is one of the most prolific vessels, and several ships have specific names and served as flagships for lesser characters. Mittermeyer and Reuantal both had flagships like this with their personal mark before being promoted to fleet admirals and getting thier own ships.

Pictured here is a custom warship in my own colors- the "Cygnus". Were I of rank in the Imperial fleets, this is what I'd have for my fleet (or flotilla) flagship.

Also on escort is an Imperial Destroyer and two Imperial gunships. The black color belongs to the "Black Lancers" squadron of the Imperial side.

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シャー･アッバス Shah-Abas
Standard Free Planets Alliance Battleship during Space Year 750, specifically during the second battle of Tiamat as part of the 5th fleet. This was the ship that Alexander Beucock, future Cheif of Staff in the FPA starfleet, served aboard when he was age 19. It is a representative of the older Free Planets Alliance warships.

献呈 Dedication
Standard Free Planets Alliance Battleship during Space Year 796. She is an example of the Standard Battleship of the FPA fleet during that time. Dedication was one of the survivors of the 4th fleet, having suffered engine trouble and lagged back before the fleet was obliterated by Reinhard von Loengramm's own forces. She was transferred to the 13th fleet under Yang Wen-Li, and then disobeyed orders during the treaty of Balarat and fled into deep space. She eventually joined forces with the Sherwood fleet, and then the El-Facil revolutionary forces. To every man and woman, the crew elected to remain behind in Islerohn after Yang's death. She remained with what was left of the Free Planets Alliance forces when they transferred to Heinessen, remaining in service as de-facto flagship of the reformed 7th fleet.

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Free Planets Alliance Battleship "Ulysess"- 913-D

The Ulysess is perhaps one of the most noteworthy vessels in the entire Free Planets Alliance Star Fleet. She first saw action during the FPA's sixth attempt to take Iserlohn fortress- where under Yang Wen-Li's command- she lead a decoy force away from the main fleet to try to draw them off. Later during that same battle, Yang uses the Ulysess to effectively hold the entire Empire side hostage (by positioning the Ulysess right underneath Count Von Loengramm's Brunhild) and allowing the FPA fleet to withdraw.

During the Astate encounter, the Ulysess took a direct hit to the ship's latrines, and was joked about being an unlucky ship. However, the Ulysess would go on to survive every major encounter she participated in. After the Hyperion was sunk, the Ulysess became the flagship of Yang Wen-Li's fleet until the end of hostilities at the end of the series.

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The largest warship of the Free Planets Alliance at 1159 meters, the Kulishna was designated the flagship of the 8th fleet. It is thought to have a sister ship, but none was made apparent.

The Kulishna sports a forward battery of 238 particle cannons, and because of this it has the largest thermal reactors.

The participated at the Amlitzer Star zone battle, where the combined invasion fleets of the Free Planets Alliance faced down the Imperial Navy sent to destroy them. After suffering a direct hit to engineering, the Kulishna lost altitude. Her admiral remained with the ship as it plunged into the star.

-------------

Also pictured is the Barbarossa- the flagship of Sigfried Kircheis. It was used up until his death, where it would remain docked on Odin in it's place beside Reinhard Von Loengramm's Brunhild.

In this particular scene, we can assume that the Kulishna escaped her destruction with the Alliance fleets and that Reinhard was assassinated by the political forces within the empire- making what would be the Loengramm camp defect to Yang's side. It would be hard to explain the presence of the Discovery and a two ships from the separate Eras of Homeworld, but then again, this is all fantasy.

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Kvasir / クヴァシル

The Kvasir is the flagship of Ernest Mecklinger, one of the Rear Admirals under the command of Reinhard von Lohengramm. He begins service as a staff officer before receiving his own command, and for the most part he regulates the supply and rear-guard actions of the Lohengramm fleets.

His flagship, the Kvasir, is said to be an expanded version of the Galactic Emprie Cruiser. While it is the smallest of the Admiralty's flagships, it is still larger than a standard imperial cruiser.

The Kvasir's antenna are retractable, and pull back into the hull when the ship is making planetary landings.

---------------------

Escorts include a Free Planets Alliance destroyer, a Standard Imperial Cruiser, a Vaygr command corvette, and Exploration modules Palomino and Guinness.

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The Palamedes is a type-1 flagship which leads the Free Planets Alliance 9th fleet. The 9th was a participating fleet in the Empire Invasion taskforce. During the Imperial counter-attack, she was nearly run over (literally) by the Mittermeyer fleet, which had to reverse to get some distance before opening fire.

Though the Admiral was seriously Injured, Palamedes would go on to fight at Amlitzer star zone, where she would survive and pull back to Iselorn following the FPA defeat. Her fate after this is unknown.

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5th Special battleship of the Free Planets Alliance space fleet, she became the 'standard' form in which all following Special battleships would adopt. She is the sister ship to the Patricolus of the 2nd fleet.

As the flagship of the 6th fleet, she was sunk at the battle at the Astate Starzone, when Commadore Moore refused to listen the advice given to him by his second officer and was destroyed.

I have a miniature of the Perhamonn, mostly because I was after another ship offered in the set: the Kulishuna. So here she is, aside a Free Planets Alliance frigate and the free trader Firefly.

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Quetzalcoatl - ケツァルコアトル
7th fleet flagship of the Free Planets Alliance Space fleet, a variation of the "class one" large battleships. Her differences mostly include a redesigned bow section to allow more firepower.

During the Empire's counterattack, the 7th fleet was surrounded by Admiral Kircheis' fleet and asked to surrender. The 7th did so, and their fate after the surrender is unknown.

-----------------------
Drawn here in this AU-verse, the Quetzalcoatl and her fleet didn't surrender and instead joined up with the other anti-imperial forces in the area. She's one of the oldest of the fleet- being repaired so often by so many different tiles that she somewhat resembles the mythical bird she takes her name after.

Drew on a whim mostly. FPA ships are much more fun to draw because they do look the part of thrown-together WWII-esque spacecraft than the sleek ornaments of the Imperial fleet.

How come all these penises aren't pixelated?

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Tristan - トリスタン
(Top)
This is the flagship of Admiral Oskar von Reuental. The Tristan is a 2nd Class warship, designed as the sister ship to Wolfgang Mittermeyer's Beowolf. The Tristan's nose houses a large X-ray laser similar in design to the Falcon's claws that resided on the (former) Geisburg fortress.

Following the incident resulting in Reuental's death, the Tristan was moored at Heinessen.

Beowolf - ベイオウルフ
(bottom)
The Beowolf is flagship to Wolfgang Mittermeyer, otherwise known as the "Gale Wolf". Mittermeyer's flagship has been re-tooled to be a fast warship, which is fitting for Mittermeyer's attack styles. It is the sister ship to Reuental's Tristan, fitting for the "twin stars of the empire". During the battle at Amlitzer star zone against the Rio Grandes, she suffered a critical hit during battle which wounded many of the troops.

>>49611027
Because this is fanart made by a western fan, not a Japanese fan.

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And now for art from a different artist.

>Who doesn't love Large Aspect Railgun Platforms? Running dog capitalist scum, that's who.

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Needleships are the designed to fill the gap between dedicated planetary surface to space shuttles and SSTO (single stage to orbit) space craft. While the price for maintenance of these craft is cheap relative to other interplanetary starships, their costs still place them out of the range of private civilian ownership. The closest 21st century comparison would place them in the similar range as privately owned corporate jets.

Launched from dedicated mag-launch facilities, their time-to-orbit is minimized, allowing a minimal amount of fuel to be used in launch maneuvers.
Needleships are capable of interplanetary travel, but not interstellar, due to lack of any form of faster than light drive.

The living section of the Spenrow can hold a crew of 6 with room enough for 10 passengers to enjoy their voyage in luxury.

Tal-kharos needleships have the same standards of luxury as the much smaller Spenrow, but have an expanded living section. This larger hull allows it to transport various forms of goods, enabling this needleship to function as a courier.

Anyone have good pics of Earth Alliance spaceships from Babylon 5?

Wondering if there are pics done up of some of the lesser-known ships from the A Call to Arms tabletop game, like the Marathon and Apollo cruisers, the Chronos frigate etc.

Of course any EA ships are welcome.

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>>49591112
I like this ship because it's not a modular vehicle like everyone figured would be the future of spaceflight (e.g. NASA's upcoming SLS, pic related). I still hope that modular vehicles have a prominent place.

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>>49611838
Don't worry, just about the only way Musk is going to get his big fucking rocket funded is if he modularizes it to hell and back and sells mission capability to everyone and their cousin.

>>49606145
The artist has taken liberties with the entire design. The terrain is actually the more accurate part: GSVs can and will make artificial environments on board. The clearly suboptimal usage of volume in the lower portion is actually what's wrong with it. The Mind mentality is generally one of 90% function and 10% form (after all, there is a certain elegance in taking all reasonable efforts to maximize efficiency and minimize wastage, but to go beyond that into the realm of obsession would be crass).

Unless it's extremely Eccentric, of course.

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>>49611617
Not EA, but I do have a few renders of Call to Arms-only ships.

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>>49612203
I fucking love the Brakiri ship designs, incidentally.

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>>49612308

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>>49611982
Well it's specifically supposed to be the Sleeper Service, which is like the poster child for eccentrics.

I don't think they need to reboot B5, but it would be cool if there was a show similar to B5 that was currently running. You know, with better CGI.

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>>49612350

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>>49612370
But why would Hollywood ever bother to make a new franchise when they can just resurrect a dead one, only to alienate it's fans and drive it back into the ground.

>>49611872
Or he could just take the profits of his (multi million dollar) plane line and (multi million dollar) phone company and funnel them into space...

>>49612308
>>49612350
>>49612381
Those are pretty great. It's a shame that, strangely for B5 imo, the Brakiri were boring rubber forehead types and not something neatly alien like the Narn, Drakh, pak'ma'ra, etc.

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>>49612670
You got the wrong eccentric billionaire there anon..

>>49612711
I think B5 had way too many humanoid races.

>>49612670
You dumb dumb, you're thinking of Richard Branson, who also happens to have a space company.

>>49612778
True, but given the limitations of what JMS had to work with that was expected. I just think they had great costuming for their non-rubberforehead aliens (Narn, Drazi, Drakh, pak'ma'ra, Vorlon, and others in the LoNAW), and even the cultures for their blatantly human-looking aliens like the Centauri were developed interestingly enough to render them unique entities by well into the first season. Better alien make up than a lot of their contemporaries.

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>>49612711
I didn't find them particularly rubber-forehead-y t b h, if I'm being frank I found them to be the most similar to humans out of all the various races.
>Not really having a "shtick" like the Minbari and their religion or the Narn and their honor
>Their politicians act more or less like human politicians
>Their businessmen act about the same
I guess you could say their "hat" was being the LOADSAMONEY aliens, but even then that was something that hardly came up in the show.

>>49592352
>to allow such small and effectively uncontrolled group to make such a big leap

i dont understand, people have been allowed to do this shit all the time. nukes are ok tho i guess

>>49612361
The SS didn't care about exterior aesthetics, it also kept a mostly culture standard composition before shit hit the fan, so the artist would be implying that all GSVs look like that underneath the fields.

>>49612763
>>49612799
Sorry, there are like 3 eccentric billionaire all buying into space and it's hard to keep them separate.

Is this one the car one?

>>49612778
>>49612850
The budget was really small. The show was filmed in widescreen in anticipation of future TVs but they could only afford to render the CGI in smaller resolution 4:3. The first season's special effects were rendered on a bunch of Amigas. ST:DS9 had double the budget per episode for comparison.

>>49613547
The car one is the only one who's put anything in orbit.

The other two have just launched "Re-usable" sub orbital craft for tourists that only got re-used once because sub-orbital spaceflight is fucking boring. It's just a less comfortable plane ride with a few minutes of weightlessness and a slightly better view that lasts for like, what, 10 minutes?

>>49595162
>SpaceX is a fully private company (in fact, it's doubtful Musk will issue an IPO as long as he lives), is not semi-governmental, and the only subsidies it has ever gotten is $20M to construct a launch facility in Texas. Twenty fucking million dollars. Its funding has come from contracts with NASA, the Air Force, etc to either develop launch vehicles, to service the ISS, or to launch satellites; or it's been private capital from investors and Musk himself.

Yes, but Musk has cleverly offset the costs of SpaceX onto his other companies, which are now both collapsing in slow motion.

>>49613719
Everywhere on 4chan there are detractors and trolls of Musk. What's with the little faith?

>>49613814
>Everywhere on 4chan there are detractors and trolls of Musk. What's with the little faith?

The fact that he is pursuing his outlandish economically unfeasible dreams on the taxpayers dime, and the cultishness of those who apologize for him.

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>>49602329
Baulder's Ring from Xeelee sequence is the biggest I know of.

>>49612361
Pretty much >>49613344. The SS's tail even noted the SS as being eccentrically standard in configuration for being an Eccentric.


Up until all that mass from the false environment got bumped into engine, and it got entirely reconfigured for rapid deployment of some 6 digits of semi-slaved combat units, anyway.

>>49613842
I think it comes down to opinion then because I don't consider him to be using taxpayer money or his plans unfeasible.

>>49613921
>I don't consider him to be using taxpayer money

That doesn't change the fact he is.

>or his plans unfeasible

The key word was "economically", but still, doesn't change the fact they are.

>>49613915
>Meanwhile at the galactic council.
"Why do we even bother making arms limitation treaties anymore."

>>49613940
I completely disagree.

>>49613911
>One of the most mind-boggling megastructures yet proposed, this was the central feature in Stephen Baxter's novel Ring. Whereas previously discussed structures were built on the scale of planets and stars, the Xeelee Ring was built on a scale dwarfing galaxies.
>In the novel, the alien Xeelee were losing a universe-wide war against dark matter beings for control of the cosmos. So they retreated through an "escape hatch" from the universe—created by ripping open a spinning naked singularity with a 10 million light year wide looping spiral of cosmic string spinning at near light speed. This wormhole-like "escape hatch" had a mass of several galactic clusters and measured some 300 light years across. Ten million light-years in diameter, the Ring's purpose was to rip away the singularity's event horizon to allow easy access in and out of the portal. The Xeelee Ring was so huge that the Xeelee's enemies threw entire galaxies at it to try and disrupt it.
>To truly understand the scale of the Ring, the crew of the refugee human ship investigating it realized that the Ring is the source of the Great Attractor, one of the great mysteries of modern real-life astronomy. The Great Attractor is an unknown force that is pulling galaxies from hundreds of millions of light years in all directions toward some unknown concentration of mass in the direction of the constellation of Virgo. In the novel, the Xeelee Ring is revealed to be the Great Attractor, so massive (equivalent to some ten thousand galaxies) that it actually counter-acted the expansion of the universe across a significant portion of the cosmos.

>>49614234
Yeah but like, what about the downstreamers?

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>>49602329
Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann is 10 million light years tall.

>>49613940
>That doesn't change the fact he is.

Most of his income comes from SpaceX which is derived from taxpayer money in the same way that most pavement suppliers get their shit from the government. SpaceX has global customers and is saving the US government a ton of money by being five times as economical with an equivalent track record to the competition.

>The key word was "economically", but still, doesn't change the fact they are.

SpaceX is already enormously profitable and by in large funds Tesla. Tesla is not remotely economically unfeasible, the cars are in enormous demand and the reason it's unprofitable is that they're reinvesting in scale. If they cut their ambition they could be profitable tomorrow, but that's not how industry works. Amazon ran at a loss or flat for a fucking decade because profits and revenues aren't the same thing. Most companies experiencing radical growth are losing money or staying flat because all of it goes right back in to continued growth.

You fucking moron.


>>49613814
Because they're garbage baby Trump fans and you're only allowed to like one Billionaire. They chose the one who sells steaks at electronics stores and was given his dads property empire.

>>49615238
How the fuck does it move?

>>49616041
Spiral power. Itd be hard to explain if you haven't seen the show. Within its own fiction it's very well justified.

>>49616041
By walking

>>49616041
FIGHTING SPIRIT

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>>49616028

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>>49616113

>>49616041
Spiral/plot energy

>>49610824
I really love Norse hound took in the Taiidin Ships and homeworld, that dude is a genius about space craft imho.

>>49614331
I've been reading and it seems like the downstreamers are the most powerful / advanced.

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>>49592159
filthy rust-fetishist.

>>49597174
But why would you want to colonize Venus in the first place? Sure it's more habitable to an extent, but you would have to build more specialized structures and the cost of failure is MUCH higher.

You would need to design and build specialized structures. On Mars you could build more or less normal compartmentalized buildings with pressurization. They would be much easier to build as well. You could send the parts piece meal or as a single structure that you build on site. A Venus building would have to be pretty much as is and designed to be sent all at once. It would be incredibly difficult to build things in the sky.

Another thing is that Venus would be more reliant on Earth for supplies. Mars has natural resources in metals that can be exploited by colonists to manufacture any expansions.

The only real reason to build on Venus would be to just have a place to put people.

>>49602329
whatever the fuck is happening in BLAME!

I like space ships that are also giant robots.

>>49618733
Different anon but Venus would have the advantage of being much closer to the sun. Which would mean it would be a very good place for a solar farm since light would be much stronger there so power wouldn't be a problem like on Mars which gets much less light. It also could have very rare or value elements in it's clouds you could mine.

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So what fictional mode of FTL travel is your favorite in sci-fi if you have one?
I'm kind of bias to stargate wormholes, myself.

>>49620730
I like stargates, in-space artificial wormholes and FTL travel through another universe/dimension. Just not all at once.

>>49620730
I like convoluted shit, so my favourite one goes like:

>You can bend the fabric of space easily, but it won't accomplish much if you're in it, since you're bending yourself too
>You can also go into a parallel plane, a sort of "Hyperspace" but the laws of physics still apply so no FTL drive
>Create a probe that can bend space
>Put probe into Hyperspace, and tell it to crumple up hyper space infront of you for the next X lightyears into 20 meters relative to you, then un-crumple it in 10 minutes
>Make coffee
>Go forward 20 meters
>Take a sip of coffee
>Go into Hyperspace
>Enjoy coffee for the remainder of the 10 minutes
>Probe un-crumples Hyperspace, "pushing you forward X Lightyears" without actually moving you at all within hyperspace
>Leave Hyperspace, and bam you're at your destination
>Make snarky comment about what a successful mission this was, while you succumb to the hordes of extra dimensional demons who have infected your ship while in "Hyperspace"

>>49618733
Mars requires far more specialized structures than some simple concrete skeleton with some teflon draped over like you would need on Venus.

Mars needs MASSIVE amounts of radiation shielding on top of being pressurized, even if you could get your habitats to be very complex inflatable structures you still need to pile on soil. Also the farther you are away from the sun the higher your cosmic ray exposure which will REALLY fuck you up. Solar winds may be deadly, but they are your friend compared to cosmic rays.

Also, a structural failure on Venus has quite a bit of time to either be patched or valuable supplies salvaged for an escape. A structural failure on Mars often means depressurization which requires you to don your space suit as a minimum. On Venus a structural failure means putting on an oxygen mask and zipping up your hoodie because you'd already be comfortably wearing acid proof clothing. Yes, supplies would need to be in acidproof containers, but when it comes to requirements that's no higher a requirement than the fireproof containers that would be used on both Mars and Venus. There are a lot of cheap materials that are both acidproof and fireproof.

As for the mining part, mining operations would be just as hard on both planets, but Venus gets the added bonus of supplies taking half the time to ship.

On Mars you need a complex network to generate power and big, heavy, mining equipment. Venus shows signs of flowing lava on its surface so you basically just need a slightly more sophisticated bucket bolted on to a tiny submarine.

>>49620730
I always like the subspace node system of FreeSpace.

It gives reasons to really fight over certain systems by limiting freedom of movement.

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>>49593628
>>49593710
Manchu makes great art in general, but his cassiopean ships were particularly nice. The camo patterns and shark mouths are a really nice touch.
Also, dat opening.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-7gRm3zPbc

>>49617972
Gearbox should just hire him and put him in charge of the homeworld franchise.

Also flyingdebris should be in charge of battletech.

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>>49623344
After Adam Kop is making stuff for SW, I really can see it ending well for everyone.

>>49592607
>Space is a big, expensive waste, which is why it's PERFECT for government and national agencies to focus on it
then how come nasa's budget keeps shrinking instead of growing?

>>49624383
Because politicians are concerned with consolidating power on earth rather than advancing mankind as a whole. Congress treats NASA as a way to funnel money and jobs into their districts. Actually doing anything in space is an afterthought.

Really, I think a theocracy would probably the best type of organization for exploring space. It's the best example I can think of of people investing in stuff that won't ever effect them in their lifetimes.

People joke about "the cult of Carl Sagan" but an honest to god space church that literally has "Woah made of star-stuff" as their official doctrine would be perfect.

Then again, a lot of real world religious institutions fall into the same trap as politics. So whatever.

>>49596069
How much could you do if you got all of your money taken away from you except welfare (which is essentially what happened to NASA).

Right, you could start a profitable career in industry or crime - which NASA can't because it's not a person but a government agency.

>>49596069
NASA hasn't done anything since the moon landing because Nixon cut it's budget immediately after.

>>49622250
>Mars requires far more specialized structures than some simple concrete skeleton with some teflon draped over like you would need on Venus.
"Concrete" as in a hardened mixture of cement and aggregate? Seems a bit hard to construct while floating

>Mars needs MASSIVE amounts of radiation shielding on top of being pressurized
Also known as "sand"

>A structural failure on Mars often means depressurization which requires you to don your space suit as a minimum.
I'd be far more comfortable fixing a leaky house that stands on solid ground instead of a leaky airship that's flying over hell. Mars buildings also don't get destroyed in the case you're unable to fix the leak.

>mining operations would be just as hard on both planets
Mining operations would be much harder on the surface Venus and I don't know how you could seriously suggest otherwise. Even Landis (2003), where you probably got most of your ideas, mentions this.

>>49625506
Bumping to save the thread so I can write a reply in a moment

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>Grand Strategy game with homeworld style space combat based off of LOGH never.

Why live?

>>49627800
the fleets would have to have total war-esq ship groups to match the scale, it is basically line warfare in space.

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>>49625506
>>49627782
>"Concrete" as in a hardened mixture of cement and aggregate? Seems a bit hard to construct while floating
Yes, exactly. There has been a massive amount of research done on trying to sequester carbon dioxide into various materials on Earth, which any Venus research can piggyback off of.
http://newsroom.ucla.edu/releases/ucla-researchers-turn-carbon-dioxide-into-sustainable-concrete

>Also known as "sand"
Sand is not with you when you exit your habitat. Each time you're outside your radiation protected environment in your suit your cancer risk increases significantly.

>I'd be far more comfortable fixing a leaky house that stands on solid ground instead of a leaky airship that's flying over hell. Mars buildings also don't get destroyed in the case you're unable to fix the leak.
A leak inside of a pressure vessel is an incredibly dangerous thing, if it's large enough things can go bad extremely fast as you'll be rushing to your spacesuit. On Venus a leak will cause you to slowly lose altitude, yes, but I think I should put some emphasis on the slow part, and even then it's much easier to carry a facemask with you for a breach than it would be to just be in a spacesuit at all times like you would have to on Mars.

>Mining operations would be much harder on the surface Venus and I don't know how you could seriously suggest otherwise. Even Landis (2003), where you probably got most of your ideas, mentions this.
There's strong evidence that Venus has flowing lava on its surface which would only require a bucket to harvest. If it doesn't, then simple blast mining could do the trick as many interesting materials happen to be on the surface. To get your mining tool to its destination you drop it from a safe place and you rely on buoyancy for it to slow at a safe rate so that a surface impact would not damage it, then once you've reached the surface you can use a simple ballast pump and it will rise back up with needed materials to be collected.

>>49604561
shit, i thought that was just a garishly painted Kol from SoaSE

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>>49618216
Rust is beautiful.

>>49618216
wow nice reskinned cylon raider you got there :^)

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>>49628505

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>>49628519

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>>49628531

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>>49628542

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>>49628552

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>>49628562

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>>49628578

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>>49628597

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>>49628612

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>>49628626

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>>49628635

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>>49628673

>>49614234
Meanwhile, mankind has conquered the galaxy, having beaten off and enslaved aliens that once took earth, as well as others with reality bending technology, all thanks to a totalitarian government that's incredibly resistant to change and is practically hamstrung by bureaucracy.

>inb4 empy's wet dream bc it takes at least another 100k years

After the fact, we even manage to get the local branch of Xeeleeburgers Inc. to btfo, before deciding to smush transhumanism and time travel together and try to become omnipresent gods of our past, present, and future. And these ambitions are preeeeetty much negligible on the Xeelee's scale of things.

Turns out that the initial xeelee "act of war" against us was just collateral from fighting their own enemies, by, y'know, just casually initiating supernovae, and that this is just in one teeny tiny galaxy across literally the entire universe since they're heavily implied to have first formed and evolved in the earliest stages of it. When we drive them out of the Milky Way? Think of a gnat biting a tactical marine during the Great Crusade, and that's roughly the kinda scales we're talking here.

/nerdwank

>>49628505
Rust in space makes no sense.

>>49629164
I know, right? It's not like the vaguely-aerodynamically-styled ship that's depicted having landed would ever have to, say, fly though a planetary atmosphere or anything.

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>>49629204
>Have the technology to travel between worlds
>Don't invest in paint or use metal that doesn't rust
>Mericans will defend this.

>>49629268
>implying paint on an interplanetary/stellar craft is a more pragmatic use of money than, say, more armour or fuckhueg guns
>implying im murican

>>49629268
Implying that micrometeorites would not effectively sandblast paint.

>>49593669
It's funny, because in the movie they walk from one end of the ship to the other in a matter of minutes.

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>>49629446
>Implying micrometoriote protection is not best provided by materials which coincidentally do not rust.
>>49629320
>Implying that armor that rusts is worth it's weight or cost.
>Implying that the used future aesthetic isn't because mericans can only relate to trailer trash.

>>49628459
Most of your claims are in "not even wrong" territory. It's hard to reply to nonsense, but I'll try my best:

- Sequestring CO2 from the Venusian atmosphere, turning it into cement (by magically adding Calcium), pouring it into a mold with gravel (both also conveniently present), waiting for it to mineralize over days, draping a sheet of teflon over the framework, filling it with a breathable gas mix, and doing all this while floating/hovering 50km above the surface before the aerostat is ready, is *literally insane*. No, Mars does not require "far more specialized structures" than whatever this shit is. Has a single concrete-and-teflon balloon ever been constructed on Earth, anyway?

- There is no explosive decompression on Mars. The difference in pressure is less than 1 atm. Leaks on Mars wouldn't be any more dramatic than on your aerostat. The ISS also has a 1 atm pressure difference, the astronauts there don't wear space suits, and a leak that happened in 2004 was located over a three week long, calm search effort. Surface habitats don't even need to care about micrometeorites or space junk like the ISS does.

- Mars surface radiation per day is 0.64 mSv/d, or 230 mSv/a. That's about a 1.5% increased chance of cancer if we assume all is absorbed. Being inside for 17 hours per sol, while working outside for 8 would dramatically cut the dose.

- No. Mining doesn't work like that. Just no. Dipping a bucket into flowing lava isn't mining. Lava is fucking basalt! And there is nothing "simple" about mining at 90 atm pressure with a temperature of 740K. Our Venus landers survive for a few hours before being crushed, so finding the "interesting materials" (did you perhaps mean ores or minerals?) would be quite difficult. Opportunity has been operational on Mars for over 12 years, and that's a machine that actually moves. These are completely different environments; one is notably more difficult for technology than the other.

>>49613814
Jealousy