What elements are necessary for a western?

Earth and air

>>49565409

Poverty.
Violence.
Cheap, dirty sex.
High temperature.
Unsafe drinking water.
Abundant cheap alcohol.
Guns.

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The same elements that are necessary for a samurai movie.

CREATING A SUCCESSFUL WESTERN: A COMPREHENSIVE GUIDE.
STEP 1: Make sure your setting is in the west.
WIN EVERYTHING FOREVER.

>>49565409
>not acting like a hollywood poser
>acting like a mature, grown up man

>>49565436
This is pretty good. But I'd like to add "Frontier Justice"

>>49565409
Is it bad that while watching it I keep thinking that Denzel Washington's character is a bit like Bass Reeves?

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>>49565409
>>49565437

The same elements that are necessary for a tanker movie.

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>>49565409

>>49565409
Why don't you go ask /tv/?

>>49565706

The fuck would /tv/ know about running a Western themed game?

>>49565537
Maybe the older stuff. The Spaghetti westerns kinda did away with it in favor of revenge stories.

>>49565409

Earth.
Wind.
Whiskey.
Fire.
Grit.

>>49565522
>>not acting like a hollywood poser
define hollywood poser
>>acting like a mature, grown up man
define mature grown man

>>49565437

Its funny

>New movie is based on an old movie which itself was based off of a Japanese classic

>>49566027
It's like if someone remade A Fistful of Dollars

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>>49565967
>define hollywood poser
google: western remake
>define mature grown man

>>49565409
The core element to all westerns seems to be that one man (or woman) can make a difference, and sometimes they're the ONLY thing that can.

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>>49565409
>>49565436
>>49566437

This also:
>Violence
Violence.
>Three line backstories that are bond together with each other and the plot / bbeg
the heroes of a western should never have a too elaborate backstory, 3 full sentences should be what you want, maybe 5. The backstories of the PCs should connect in some way, maybe they were together in the army, fought each other or were in the same gang etc. Also there should be a lot of room for bullshitting in the backstory because telling made up tales and boasting about achievements you may or may not have made, as well as legends spreading about your name, is a big element.
>Violence
Violence.
>Diversity
The wild west is a melting pot of different cultures, indians, mexicans, chinese, irish and many more. There is a lot of room for conflicts and exploring.
>Gun Violence
In duells, shoot outs, executions, bar fights, everything.

>>49565965
True Grit.... and horses.

>>49565959
>revenge
Isn't that basically what frontier justice is?

There are two things which generally make something a western (other than the setting): The first is the idea of a society based much more on personal honor and family ties than any legal or political management. Laws and hierarchy matter less than who has a feud with who or who owes who his life. You may just want to do this through GMing but if you did want to mechanize it then some kind of bonds system or social currency could create this feeling.
The second is the idea of the protagonists as outsiders, this links closely with the one above since being a wanderer the protagonists are even less part of a traditional social order than normal. In game terms this is standard for most adventurers though.
Also but less important is the setting as being the edge of civilization, both literally and metaphorically. There are communities but those are isolated. For everyone making a living in town there's someone who became a bandit.

A bad man and a good man who refuses to do nothing.

>>49566056
Or For A Few Dollars More

>>49565409
Slow dialogues with few words. You are under a punishing sun and surrounded by an ocean of dust, you don't want to waste saliva. No, no snow allowed. No, no rain allowed. Yes I know about snowy westerns.

Dust.

A lot of it.

>>49565446
That's wrong though dummy.

Violence
Isolation
Frontier justice

>>49565409
A wild frontier.

Opportunism testing the moral fiber of society.

True believers.

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So grogs, how do you suppose we bridge the gap between sword and sorcery and western themes without getting into cogfop bullshitery?

>>49568651
Watch the Dollars trilogy and mentally replace the guns with swords.

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>>49568674

No anon, you don't understand, I want guns AND swords

>>49568651
Just have small mostly isolated communities and a hero/heroes travelling between them getting involved and fixing trouble, but being unappreciated because locals see them as another trouble maker anyways.

Now you can do western, samuari, post apocalyptic and lots of else. Basically anything that isn't too modern.

>>49567631
What's For A Few Dollars More based on? I know Fistful's pretty much Yojimbo, and I can't think of anything GBU would be based on.

>>49568709
>guns AND swords
You're already in cogfop land, you varmint.

>>49565409

Poverty.
Lax use of law.
Cowboy hats.
Hunting of game.
Rolling for disintery.

>>49568709

I...is that a f...fucking pirate-cowboy?

Fuck me and call me Nancy i like it.

I like it a lot.

>>49567631
They only remade The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly though - what was that one based on? Oh, and 'they' are Koreans, and The Good, The Bad and The Weird is a surprisingly decent movie

>>49565409
That happens in the west.

>>49568651
Don't do a "magical awakening" thing that leads to a rapid increase in technology like Shadowrun did, just add fantasy races and themes to an old west setting and keep the tech level appropriate to the era. Cogfop shit only happens when you try to make a high tech setting with a victorian aesthetic.

If you're gonna have magic keep it confined to weird little folk rituals that get more complicated as they get more dramatically effective.

>>49567190

True Grit comes from tempering common grit with fire and whiskey.>>49567203

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>>49570383

Fire and whisky you say?

>>49570303
I get what you're saying but I'm not trying to emulate Deadlands or Call of Cthulhu or anything, basically just D&D 5e in a western style setting because I can't fucking stand the bog standard LoTR faggot elf songs/european dirt farming village sort of settings.

>>49568709
Just jam mongols and other asian steppe peoples, samurai, cowboys and injuns into the same setting and let nobody have access to heavy armour.

>>49570383
Mere fire won't do.

You'll need fanned coals for that, or the grit won't have the right incandescence. A train engine boiler fire will do, or a look of disapproval from a beautiful settler town teacher.

>>49565409
A sense of great potential needs to be the focus point, from my interpretation of most Westerns. The West is the land of opportunity. Ex-slaves can come out and be free, man can make his own world for himself, a town can be saved from a ruthless Eastern criminal and set its eyes toward a bright future.

>>49567203
Revenge isn't necessarily just.

>>49565409

A gun, six bullets, and a thirst for vengeance.

>>49567569
>In game terms this is standard for most adventurers though.
Important to add to this, though: towns should not jump for joy when the PCs arrive. They've had a lot of PCs so far, more bad than good, and expecting some wanderers to help out and only take the pay they accepted is gonna be tough to rationalize. So towns will be wary of letting anything on to you until you can prove yourself.

>>49565409
You need 3 things for a good western.
Guns.
More guns.
And a mystery.

>>49568651
Dogs in the vineyard has never looked so good.

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>>49565409
>Tfw when you always wanted to play a Western Campaign but none of your friends are into Westerns as much as you.
>tfw you will never play as that disgraced Confederate General out for revenge like you always wanted to.

Late 19th century North America, west of the Rockies, typically California, Nevada, New Mexico, and Arizona.

"Civilization" is what you bring with you. There's a clash of cultures between established settlers, eastern cityfolk, and the natives. Nobody really understands how the other types live and consequently have fear and mistrust toward them.

There's no higher temporal authority to call upon. Local law enforcement has a free hand to deal with crime and punishment because of the difficulty in communicating with superiors on the other side of the continent.

>>49572347
>Dead Space is a western
>Law and Order is a western
>Delta Green is a western
>L. A. Noire is a western
>Inception is a western
I like the idea anon but I think it may need a little more fleshing out. Maybe not, I have literally no experience with westerns that aren't in space.

>>49572498
Yeahhh, maybe it wasn't the most thought out thing I've ever written on this site. but really it sounded cool in my head.

>>49566027
And inspired by even older westerns.

>>49565436
Mexico and Brazil are western?

>>49565437
It's really interesting how samurai movie protagonists and western movie protagonists tend to fall in the same cultural archetypes.

>>49568651
>literally Seven Samurai
Guns, swords, a group of wandering heroes protecting a town from bandits, getting no respect from the townsfolk for their sacrifices.

>>49565409
sand

>>49565409
1. Ignore history, romanticized stories of the wild frontier only apply
2. Romanticize racism, whether it be power-negro vs. Ku Klax Kai or Chinaman Chin-Pong Wash Up Wagon.
3. Romanticize death and murder. Nothing is better than becoming a travelling killer
4. Make sure Kurt Russel is nowhere near any guitars.
5. Women are one of four categories: City lady, howdy ya'll-whore, nun or teacher
6. Natives are an amalgamation and interchangeable as needed
7. Only British, Germans and Irish people came from Europe to America, no other existed.
8. Everybody hangs always, nobody ever gets killed any other way if not involved in a gun fight
9. It must be written be Italians. If you're not an Italian, it's not a western
10. Everybody either drinks whiskey like water or is a puritan
11. Six shooters can fire up to 30 or so times before running out of bullets
12. It happens in a desert, no vegetation or trees. Any western with anything other than cacti and canyons are not westerns.
13. There must be a reference to John Wayne or no dice
14. Somebody plays a guitar and sings a somber or creepy song
15. Big Black Dingus

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>>49572803
I know this you pretending to be retarded but

>No trees or vegetation
>Literally one of the most iconic scenes from one of the most iconic movies has a shit load of trees and grass in the background

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0BrdMi-oyc

>>49572870
i thought they were artistic graves

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are there any fantasy westerns?
without elves and dwarfs?
what races should be in a fantasy western?

i know one thing... there must be a whiskey elemental as a monster

>>49572974
Deadlands.

>>49573008
>>49572974
The sixth gun if you want to play in the wild west, deadlands if you want to play in a canyon riddled alt history deathstone or whatever it's called infested weird west.
Def. no bias here.

Conflict between the myth of what the West is supposed to be seen as versus what it actually is. "When the fact becomes legend, print the legend."
Conflict between aging ideals of masculinity versus the pragmatism of advancing modernity.
Conflict between the danger and unknown of the frontier versus the safety and security of modern life in the home.
Conflict between the differing American romantic ideals of the outlaw hero versus the establishment hero.

Masterpieces include The Wild Bunch, Pat Garrett and Billy The Kid, The Searchers, The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance, Unforgiven, and McCabe and Mrs Miller.

Thread theme?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YigM-F4oSIE

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>>49575092
the new magnificient seven doesn't suck at all.
Remakes and reboots usually are just shit that tries to sell by the established name, and yes this movie kind of does try to make money by that name but what's more important is that the western genre was basically dead and this movie shows producers that they can make money with good old wild west stories, without making them weird west and adding steam punk spiders, Jackie Chan or a stupid alien story.
I went to that movie because I want to see more new western without fantasy crap.

>>49565425
Weirdly accurate

>>49565409
Probably a compass

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>>49572803
It's like you are not even fucking trying at all.
Or saw a western in your life

>>49572974
Deadlands, at least the early editions and vanilla game.
Dogs in the Vineyard is as far as I'm concerned fantasy western too

>>49575391
>the new magnificient seven doesn't suck at all.
Who are you trying to convince here? Yourself?
The movie could just change title to "Shit blows up" and it would be fine. But nah, let's pretend it has anything to do with one of THE most iconic westerns ever made or one of the first modern films made.

>>49575391
I guess you've missed Open Range then. The last good western made. And anti-western at that, too.
Really, the genre is dead. Not because there is no interest in it or public got tired (like it happend in the late 60s), but because studios no longer even try to make western as such. No, instead they produce bullshit films that happen to take place in the prairies, in style of all the shit you've already mentioned. Literally since Open Range there wasn't any big-budget western made or released, unless we count The Proposition and The Good, The Bad and The Weird as westerns.

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>>49575492
no country for old men was a good western

>>49572803

>power-negro vs. Ku Klax Kai or Chinaman Chin-Pong Wash Up Wagon.

This is definitely something to bear in mind. There will be white Americans (including Northern carpetbaggers), there will be native Americans, Chinese laborers, freed/escaped slaves, Irish, British, Mexicans.

Don't just go with the blanket "Everyone is western white American".

Clint Eastwood

>>49575571

The Man With No Name could be included as an NPC in everyone's game, and be ludicrously overpowered, like Caine in WoD.

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>>49565409
Warriors who, through isolation and exposure to violence, have become emotionally stunted and disconnected from society. They are given an opportunity to regain some aspect of their humanity, either by giving up violence or escalating it tremendously. Their efforts grant them some degree of satisfaction, but in the end they either fail to achieve their goals, or attain a Pyrrhic victory.

>>49567203
Kind of a square/rectangle situation there.

>>49575523
It barely had anything to do with western if you actually start analysing it.

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>>49575523
Hell or High Water was almost a Western and I enjoyed it.

>>49575482
I don't think you've watched it.

>>49572649
Mexico yes, Brazil no.

>>49566027
Kurosawa just transposed western codes in feodal japan though. It just came full circle.
And apparently the movie is pretty good. Chris Pratt is in fucking everything right now. This one, the one with Jennifer Lawrence, Guardians really helped his career.

>>49572677
Well, it WAS a tribute to Seven Samurai, oiginally.

>>49565425
>>49575419
>ignoring based fire.

>>49569512
It is based on Sanjuro. Both the "Dollar" movies are pretty much the same as the samurai ones, except with Toshiro Mifune.

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>>49565409
Penguins and Anti-Penguins.

>>49565409
Disregarding history is vital.

>>49567203
No, frontier justice may require retribution, but not revenge. Revenge is something you do to satisfy a personal obsession, frontier justice is about protecting people and doing the right thing, through the use of violence.

>>49577732

"Western" already is going with totally romanticized version of history anyway.

>>49572649
>Mexico

That shit is a fucking staple of westerns.

>>49565409
Greed.

Greed has to motivate a major character in the story. Either the hero or villain.

>>49579800
wasn't the magnificent seven set in mexico?

>>49575553
most westerns are set post-civil war, so they'd be freed slaves, not escaped.

See, this is why I want to get into a Deadlands game.

I always had this idea for a character. Frontier minister with a secret past and many burdens. Used to be an outlaw, but was saved by a literal miracle and became a preacher and found a town and set up a church.

Then his former outlaw buddies find him and he runs, and they try to get him to return to face them, so what do they? They round up the townspeople... put them in the church and lit it on fire.

Coward that he was, he didn't come back and the town died due to that. So he drags the wrought iron cross that used to top the steeple around with him as penance, as he tries to make the world a little bit brighter and begging forgiveness from the 40 odd some people he failed and God for being such a coward.

Alas... no one runs Deadlands because no one likes westerns.

>>49580876
>>49579800
Yes, and done by Italians.

Spaghetti Westerns got their name for a reason.

A good soundtrack.

>>49575834
I'd say it was a western, just one that takes place in the modern era. I also enjoyed it.

>>49581086
>Spaghetti Westerns got their name for a reason.
Wasn't it because a lot of westerns got filmed in italy because it has the right kind of geology and enough old ruined/unsettled areas to make believable frontier landscapes?

>>49575523
>those loose-ass dressing lines

FUCKING
TRIGGERED

>>49581086
Magnificent Seven wasn't a spaghetti western. It wasn't dystopic, it wasn't depressing, nor was bleak.

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>>49575391
>the new magnificient seven doesn't suck at all.
It wasn't stunningly great either

the man-bear was the best and only noteworthy addition

poor bonding, no shits given about the village people, lame villain. Eli Wallach's position, though criminal, was one out of necessity and can be sympathized with, unlike turbo-whitey.

I will say I'm happy to see Chris die in the film. Not because he deserved, but because I was convinced no one would have agreed to it.


That's what makes a good western, a sympathetic badguy. Everyone wants to love a rogue.

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>>49581128
understatement of the century

say what you will about it, but this ballad is aces

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtXMQ5kxqyg

It's not the best western I've ever seen, but it's among my favorites.

>>49581371
No, they usually did them in Spain. Spaghetti Westerns are usually the Sergio Leone ones.

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>>49565409
>>49565437
The same elements that are necessary for a samurai western movie

>>49581759
I've seen this movie, but I couldn't tell you what happened.

>>49581719
Spaghettie western typically refers to an italian director as well.

The Lee Van Cleef Sabata movies (and the unofficial sequels to the Magnificent Seven) count too.

>>49570065
A western set in modern day LA.

There's one rather important thing I haven't seen mentioned yet.

Isolation.

The west is fucking huge, and even 150 years after the push westward, still incredibly disperse in population. Going to the next town over is a minor feat in and of itself, and is usually undertaken in decently sized group. That's why the railroads were so incredibly vital, since they reduced a dangerous trek of a year's time, to a less dangerous ride of a week.

>>49582493
Ah, the promises of the Call of Juarez: the Cartel. But nope! It was nothin' but racism racism racism.

>>49582493
It's not that bad here.

>>49572498
>Delta Green is a western
Well they are called Cowboys.

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>>49581371
>Wasn't it because a lot of westerns got filmed in italy because it has the right kind of geology and enough old ruined/unsettled areas to make believable frontier landscapes?

>>49581719
>No, they usually did them in Spain. Spaghetti Westerns are usually the Sergio Leone ones.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaparral

The only major requirement is a chaparral biome.

>>49584944
>Delta Green agents fighting Yog-Sothoth cult sent back in time to Wild West
>hunt down various spooky things

Sounds fun.

>>49565409
How do women fit into Westerns anyways? You know, besides prostitution, and not every woman can be a Calamity Jane.

>>49568709
>guns and swords
set it in the flintlock era, no revolvers

>>49570017
I really love The Good, The Bad, and The Weird

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>>49585216
>How do women fit into Westerns anyways?
Ever seen this?

great movie, you should

>>49565409
Long, LONG build up.

>>49581759
Did you say samurai western movie?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdXdotzrqPY

>>49585216
Pretty well, actually. Outside of the ubiquitous boom-town prostitutes, women in the west were roughly equivalent (with the obvious physical variations) to an average prairie farm-boy. Read: scrawny, rough, and capable of blasting someone with a rifle when the situation permits.

>>49585302

And the resolution needs to be relatively quick and brutal.

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>>49585265
Seriously. That film made me want to run a game in a kind of central asian 'western' setting.

The Gobi or Taklamakan deserts would work pretty well.

>>49585216
Dr. Quinn.
Not Harley, the other one.

>>49585302
>>49585479
I think OP is just one off for that to work.

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>>49574892
>>49575638

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6gLJ4_sfG8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QML28YQBvyc

No real spoilers in either clip, though the hired fighters were supposed to be played by Clint Eastwood, Eli Wallach, and Lee Van Cleef.

>>49585765
>paint the town red

Great plan

>>49585765

Oh and the pic is apparently the wrong poster. That's where Clint Eastwood played what was kinda sorta maybe a devil.

>>49585784

It was. It's just there was some miscommunication about the nature of the plan, and who it was going to benefit.