Imperial Navy

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>>49561586
Best ship class coming through.

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Switching it up with some SM ships.

>>49561586
So just how big is the imperial navy?

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>>49562302
We never get exact numbers, but they're real big, like the IG but with fleets instead of regiments big.

>>49562302
A primitive planet build a lunar cruiser in 11 years. If every planet could do that once the IN would be billions of cruisers.
So it's very large.

>>49562368
ok doing head math and rough calculations they must have a billion ships at the very least

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>>49562368
As I recall they 'sacrificed' the resources as a tithe, it was built off world with what they mined and I'm not sure they were the only planet involved. When they were done the guy in charge told them the Emperor had rewarded their labor with a new star in the heavens.

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>>49562396
Sounds about right.

>>49562449
And just that's using primitive worlds taking into account other factors.
>More developed worlds.
>Planets dedicated to ship production.
>That massive shipyard around Mars.
The number goes up even more.

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>>49562515
Ah, the ring of iron.
They're underrated man.

>>49562538
Yea that thing looks like it could probably build several hundred cruisers at one time while serving as a Trade port and repair dock for maybe hundreds more.

what are some of the run of the mill ships in the imperium that do trading and what not?

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>>49563233
They're harder to track down than an eversor attack survivor.

>>49563233
Rouge traders handle that stuff and I think they sometimes get stuff from offical shipyards

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>>49563188
>tfw your escort bros survive the battle

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>>49563436
While Rogue Trader houses indeed do a lot of trade inside the boundaries of the Imperium, their main function lies in pushing these boundaries.

The chartist captains are a significantly larger part of the Imperial trade.

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Postin muh flagship.

>>49561632
I never understood why the don't use multiple ranks of macrocannons instead of a single one. Espeically when theguns are so small compared to the ship.

>>49562538
>"And we will build the new macrofactoria right here. This way the entire continent will look like a giant skull from orbit"
>"Of course, fabricator general. How brilliant"

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>>49562427
>>49563507

I love the old-school Imperial Navy aesthetic / current Chaos aesthetic with its broad sterns and dagger or (slightly smaller and lower than the current) ploughshare prows.

Would you happen to have the source of where that first pic is from? I don't think I've seen it before.

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>>49562538
When did the transformers infiltrate the 40k verse?

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>>49564472
Source: one of the horus heresy books, I think.

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>>49564425
>I never understood why the don't use multiple ranks of macrocannons
Some do.

>>49562302
Iirc, it should be vast, but their numbers are always stupidly low. Like, less than three hundred ships in a segmentum battlefleet.

>>49563233
Chartist vessels.

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>>49564472
>Would you happen to have the source of where that first pic is from?
Afraid not.

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>>49564544
Gloriana's are just stupidly huge, I love them

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>>49563233
Look on lexicanum, merchant and civil fleets - they actually make up 90% of imperial shipping

They include things like this

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>>49564831
I agree.

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>>49564905

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>>49564831
>>49564544
BL should release a collection of short stories, each one detailing the last moments of the Legion flagships.
That would be pretty sweet imo.

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>>49565021
Some of them are still around.

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>>49565109
Which ones? Spoonfeed me pls

>>49565154
Macragges Honor for one.

>>49565154

Vengeful Spirit, Conqueror, Macragge's Honour are confirmed.

>>49565154
Allegedly, Amphion the Gloriana gifted to the Imperial army was is still banging around in and out of warp.

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>>49565161
I'd bet it only gets deployed outside of Ultramar when the vast majority of the chapter is hitting a single target - it's too big, and too valuable in defending the chapter's home systems, to see much use

That said, could you imagine being in the opposition's void command when a Gloriana appears on your screen?
Nothing quite say's "you're fucked m8" like a ship that's more than twice the size of an Emperor Battleship

>>49565296
it's tough and big but doesn't have all that much more firepower compared to an Emperor Class Battleship.

>>49565362
Not necessarily, the Glorianas were built before the restrictions were placed on astartes vessels, by all means they are full fledged battleships and larger than the usual imperial vessels in the 41st M, however they were built according to the specifications of the Primarchs so their capabilities vary.

>>49565414

>restriction of the astartes vessels

What is this the washington treaty?

>>49565433
Probobly part of the codex Astartus

>>49565468

God fucking damnit roboute.

>>49565468
>Probably part of the Codex Astartes
Fuckin Rowboat Girlyman

>>49565433
Sort of, during the heresy there was a big difference between the ships crewed by humans and the ones crewed by astartes, so during the breakup the navy wanted to put a handy cap on astartes vessels, some not wanting them to have ships at all, a compromise was reached in which the astartes could maintain a fleet but not one specializing in void combat, so the marines designed their ships to specialize in planetary assault, lots of armor, limited shields, bombardment cannons, and if they want a ship with lances they have to get express permission from the navy per each lance, the end result are some seriously potent vessels but they shine better for an intended purpose, this ensures the astartes can do their job and the navy can do theirs, checks and balances are achieved.

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>>49565433
It's meant to gimp the Space Marine Chapters so they can't overpower the Imperial Navy.

Gloriana Class vessels are a relic from a time when the Astartes had the very best equipment available, post Codex Astartes Chapters have limitations on which Naval Vessels they can use. For example no pure combat vessels above frigate size.

While now the Imperial Navy has the very best equipment available.

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>>49565495
One last tiny detail, space marine vessels can only be crewed by about 50-40% astartes.

>>49565485
>>49565491
he had to make sure the newly found Naval Service had the undivided attention of the Imperiums space docks.

>>49565433
>>49565531

Just don't forget to take into account that, like with the Codex Astartes in general, there are exceptions to the rule.

The Dark Hunters for example have a Gothic cruiser as their Chapter flagship (or maybe just a line ship, I forget). The Charcharadons, being a Heresy-era breakaway with ten thousand years of raiding in the interim, also have the overwhelming majority of their Chapter fleet composed of regular IN vessels, many of which are now the last survivors of their class because the Spess Sharks are the galaxy's greatest handymen.

>>49565531
>>49565495

So fucking using this for my dudes.

>captain takes vessel
>wants to keep vessel they boarded in orbit for the chapter
>Chapter master replies they can't keep it the reason it's a void combat vessel
>We can retrofit it
>Nah please scuttle it
>Instead changes its coarse and flings it at the traitor hive city annihilating it.

Sweet. Thanks guys.

The black fleet, does it use the same ships as the imperial navy just rigged to carry psykers or what?

From what I see they look very similar, and they're fuckhuge

>>49565636
I imagine theyre designed to contain the psykers and move them to proper facilities as their primary focus

>>49565631
I don't think they have to give back loot, just that they aren't issued any Navy ships like Cruisers and bigger.

>>49565940

Ohh... fuck my bad everyone.

>>49565949
Eh, could still be done - if there's a resource or corruption reason (or even a petty one like some jumped up administratum lord saying they shouldn't have it and should hand it over to him) it's still totally a thing a chapter might do, unless the ship's a relic

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>>49566053
Not so loud, the Mechanicus will hear you!

>>49561586

Does the Imperial Navy perform surface naval duties? Seems a bit odd that PDFs would be entrusted with expensive surface and submersible vessels, especially on water-heavy planets.

>>49567375
>Expensive
Oh come now, they are just pieces of metal floating in the planetary ocean, they don't even need shit like warp engines or gellar fields.
Hell, id be surprised if they even had void shields on them.

>>49567375
PDF would be entrusted with their local naval (both sea and space) forces. They are entrusted with the system monitor fleet after all.

I'm not sure IG/IN care too much abot water fleets. They can always shoot ships/deploy infantry from space and there is no need to move goods by sea if you can do from the air.

>>49567121
90% of those symbols would hold absolutely no meaning, let alone sentimental value, to people 400 centuries from now

>>49567496
Ah yeah I remember the very alien imperial mindset with their officers not clad in 18th century british inspired parade uniforms.

>>49567496

Symbols have a far longer shelf-life than the objects they represent.

Just look at how much naval terminology and symbolism is drawn from items and techniques that have been out of fashion since the Age of Sail, or the sheer amount of nautical superstition that's alive and well.

If you want examples closer to home, just look at your average word processor or forum post UI. Floppy disks haven't been in widespread use for decades, but that'll likely remain *the* symbol for "Save" in the foreseeable future. Ditto for "carbon copy" in emails. How many people even know what that is?

>>49561586
just got my shit kicked in by AI tau.

why are they so OP

>>49567590

Wat faction you playing and what difficulty?

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>>49567566
I don't want to be a complete cunt, but you are throwing up examples which are centuries old at best.
40k is a setting which is from our point in time, chronologically further away than the first fucking human record (read first fucking cave painting)
What do you know about people who crawled out of the last Ice age ~12,000 years ago? What the fuck do you know of people who lived 30,000 years before them?
If you have a degree in history or paleontology, you might dish something out, but otherwise, probably that they wore furs and painted shit on the cave walls.
And now count in the generally agreed on state of the Imperium, where your average person doesn't have a sliver of the formal education compared to people in today's developed countries.
Greek myth was pretty much fucking actual history few hundred years ago.
A person 40 millennia from now will have no fucking clue wha'ts a trident, especially after shit like Age of Strife, where most of the human historical record was destroyed.

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>>49561626
You what mate?

>>49562427
This is correct, they basically dropped metal into a designated area as religious tribute and the Imperium collected it.

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>>49567375
>>49567443
>>49567445

That does give the PDF potentially a niche where it does not suck balls at in compared to every other branch of the Imperium - underwater warfare, where as the owner of the majority of the Imperium's submarines, they have the unique capability to both engage horrors such as marine tyranids, orc submarines, and chaos fish, as well as strike land targets from the safety of the sea. The only competition they'd be facing would be in the Space Marines, who would probably serve more as support than an complete overlap in roles, given that few Space Marine chapters have dedicated vehicles for going into especially low depths but are likewise equipped with naturally pressurized suits which can allow them to fight underwater at-will.

Cadia is mostly water, isn't it? You'd think they'd go on more about the naval aspect of the conflict which occurs on it - perhaps some IN captains even started as PDF officers?

>>49567742
The problem is the typical creativity schizophrenia in 40k.

One one paragraph they tell you the ministorum has thousands of different catethims that can barely be considered the same thing. On the other every priest is portrayed as a mix of medieval orthodox bishop.

It is a futuristic galaxy wide society but the only music that exists is fake hollywood epic gregorian chants.

The Emperor used the very same imagery as 30k year old italians for some reason.

>>49564544
>Perty has a tiny wiener.jpg

>>49567889
arguably, he's also the most sensible voidship designer in the entire setting

>>49561586
Is it still canon that the imperial navy really is the only thing actually halting the tyranid swarms since their ships are so op while the tyranids got literal space turds?

>>49568083
It's more that the imperial fleet is so goddam massive they managed to create a battling across a large part of the galactic east

>>49568083
>>49568110
it's probably a combination of the two
Imperial Navy has a fuckload of ships and in absence of imperial worlds they can also nuke bioships with impunity

>>49568217
Also they can go postal with their warp drives and rip a new hole to demonmension in the middle of the tyrannid fleet to fuck them six ways to sunday.
It's how Macragge was saved.

>>49568243
Yea that's how they defeated behemoth
Kraken because of how spread out it was required a massive quarantine across the eastern segmentum

>>49562396
There's a way to calculate very roughly how many capital ships it has.

It says in the original BFG that an Imperial Navy battlefleet has between 50-75 capital ships. A Battlefleet covers a sector.

An Imperial Sector is usually a cube of 200 light years long

The galaxy is 90,000 light years across and 50,000 light years thick

you do the math

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>>49564544
>>49564831
They're roughly the size of Imperial Super Star Destroyers from SW

The Covenant Supercarrier from Halo though is like 8,000km longer. That's true stupid huge and the largest "standard" capital ship in a mainstream sci-fi franchise I know of.

>>49569256
Now one should take into account on that calculation that not the whole galaxy is under imperial control.
You have the edge areas, some areas that aren't mapped, the eye of terror, the Tau space and the areas the tyranids have either nommed, are currently eating or where the tyranid fleet currently physically resides.
Also any Necron systems.

>>49565021
They're slowly explaining what happened to each. As of the latest books:

1.) Stormsword (White Scars) was destroyed during the events of Path of Heaven

2.) Fidelitas Lex (Word Bearers) was destroyed during the events of Betrayer

3.) Shadow of the Emperor (Raven Guard) and Fist of Iron (Iron Hands) were destroyed during the Drop Site Massacre

4.) Conqueror (World Eaters) and Vengeful Spirit (Black Legion) are still in service in M41. Supposedly Macragge's Honor and Flamewrought (Salamanders) are still in service as well but are classified as Battle Barges.

>>49569343
Yeah it's p much impossible, even in BFG it says that a high priority sector like Cadia would have "many more" times the number of ships than a standard sector while a low-priority sector would have less. but at least you can get some sort of very very very very vague number

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>>49567375
The IN strictly covers intergalactic vessels, wet-navies are the realm of IG/PDF. Humorously enough they usually control the airforce.
>>49567742
Actually friend, Imperial planets are all over the chart, you have cities of glass, modern look alikes, industrial revolution look alikes, and literal cave men on some worlds.

>>49569357
Don't the Wolves still have Hfvrankl (sp?) chilling over Fenris?

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>>49569399
Still, just to get an idea, we could try calculating it.
But how? That is the question.
I first tried getting the cubic dimensions of the galaxy like this.
90,000ly * 90,000ly * 50,000ly=4.05x10^14
Then i tried dividing it with the sectors cubical dimensions (200ly*200ly*200ly) to get an idea of how many sectors there are.
50,625,000.
Then that times the amount of ships per sector, lets assume 75, i get 3,796,875,000 battleships.

And i am not at all sure if i calculated this right or if i used the right calculations to begin with, but this is what a faggot like myself got.
Now that i think about it, i should have calculated galaxy not as a box, but as a round container...

Fuck it, we need someone who can actually do math and not just an amateur like me.

I was thinking of not posting this, but after writing all that and calculating all that, i might as well go through with this and post it, i'll post some pretty picture to accompany it so it wont be a total eyesore.

>>49569357
>are classified as Battle Barges
Battle Fleet Gothic says Battle Barge is more a designation of role than a class. While there is a standard Battle Barge pattern some chapters use unique patterns or IN Battleships as Barges (Space Wolves are noted to favor the Retribution IIRC)

>>49569357
Flamewrought is gone, the Battle Barge in M41 is stated to have been named in its honor

>>49569548
>says
More than just says, the rules reflect that as well. You can take "relic battle barges" that are just ships from the chaos/imperial fleet lists.

>>49569544
My own math put the imperial navy total numbers between 1 billion and 1.5 billion with your math that could put the fleets to the tens of billions If those are for just battleships
But if that was for just ships in general it could work

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>>49567742
>I don't want to be a complete cunt

Then you wouldn't be nit picking something so irrelevant in the first place.

>>49562302
Extremely large, but even more extremely spread thin just like every other Imperial thing ever.

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The IN in one of their lesser recognized duties.

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>>49569718
I wonder, do they bless their munitions?

>>49569731
It's the Imperium bro.

>>49569731
Yes.

>>49569747
>>49569753
Yeah but who does it?
The mechanicus or the ministorum?
Or do they both bless the munitions one after another?
Or do they constantly keep on re-blessing the munitions because they see the other groups blessings as sacrilege and so they must bless them again to make the munitions holy again...

>>49569791
Mechanus blesses the delivery system ministorum blesses the the part that actually goes boom

>>49569731
Yes.

>>49569791
Both.

And they don't see each other's blessings as sacrilege, the treaties between Mars and Terra back at the dawn of of the Imperium already sorted that out.

>>49569548
Space Wolves like Emperors, not Retributions.

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>>49565161
>>49565198
I could have sworn that I read somewhere that the post-codex Ultramarines decided that having the Macragge's Honour was more of a problem than it was worth and had the ship stripped, melted down and rebuilt into numerous smaller Battle Barges.

>>49571205
there is no way..Macragges Honor was Guillimans flagship..it would be heresy in the extreme.

>>49562302
Well when the flicker of the astronomicron happened, the Imperium literally lost millions of ships instantly, and they just moved on and built some more for later.

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>>49562302
The battlefleet gothic rulebook states that a sector fleet is 50-75 ships and that the average sector is a cube of 200 light years to a side.

The Milky Way is roughly 100,000 light years across which gives each small square on this map's grid has a width of 2000 light years, or 10 sectors. This means each square is made up of roughly 100 sectors.

The arm that moves through the centre of the Segmentum Solar covers about 60 grid squares which equates to 6000 sectors and 300,000-450,000 ships, assuming it is only one sector deep.

>>49567742
This is slight autism on my part, but the oldest recorded cave paintings are a little over 40,800 years old.
Meaning that 40k, which is closer to 39,000 years in the future... is actually chronologically closer.

But yeah, you're a cunt, and an uninformed cunt at that.

>>49567823
>Cadia is mostly water, isn't it?

Not really? They've got a solid amount, but it's not a water planet.

>>49561586
A lot of the new Genestealer Cult miniatures looks quite normal from the neck down.

I was thinking of converting some into Imperial Navy voidsmen.

Does anyone have any head suggestions? if I remember correctly they used to look like the robots from Battlestar Galactica.

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>>49573073
I've got some heretical ones if it's any help

>>49562368
>>49562396

Sort of a misrepresentation there. It took 11 years for the natives of the primitive society to harvest the materials needed to construct the starship (they viewed it as bringing tribute to God) which was then shipped to the orbital construction of the Imperial Navy.

You make it sound like the primitives banging rocks together crafted the thing.

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>>49563188

>>49569731
Not only do they bless their munitions but there's also a type of imperial guard mortar that has its shrapnel specifically formed into razor-edged versions of the Imperial aquila. Presumably when it comes to starships they do the same on an even bigger scale.

>>49571205
very unlikely. Macragges Honour is basically their last functional remnant of Roboutes age.

I believe it was at the battle of macragge against the Nids

>>49567691
Imperial Navy and Normal.

They shoot my battlecruisers and cruisers to shreds.

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Threadly reminder.

A C'tan shard, in the Shield of Baal second book, jumped to space and flew through the void in a speed said to surpass the speed of any Imperial space vessel. As we know, C'tan shards have no thrusters or any means of acceleration. Look at this shard. It's butt naked.

Ergo, Imperial Navy ships outside of Warp travel are slow as hell.

>>49575028
there's no logical connection between that info and that conclusion.

>>49575028
That is like saying that a racing boat is slower than a ship-of-the-line because it has no sails or oars.

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>>49573609

>>49571340
Maybe they just mothballed it and moved it's payload and staff to battle barges? So it's been "replaced" in one sense.
So it's still in orbit around Ultramar or something and the Ultramarines will pop up there now and then to pay respects but they're not about to fuel it up, stuff it full of cylonic torpedoes and put their entire chapter in a single ship before blasting off to a warzone.

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>>49573073
skitarii vanguards, probably

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>>49575997
If it's still functional I seriously doubt it.
besides, it's a recurring theme n 40k that the more powerful the artifact, the longer whoever holds it is just going to sit on it until something scares them so much they can't make up a reason not to use it.

What's the name of the ship from the dh rulebook where the bridge is treated like a dramatic stage play? That description was fucking hilarious.

>>49569256

Checking http://www.universetoday.com/75691/how-big-is-the-milky-way/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milky_Way

The size of the milky way is in dispute. Diameter: 100 to 180 kLY. 12 kLY thick at its thickest (the bulge in the center). I find this range incredible. I mean on one hand it's hard to measure something from inside it, but damn that isn't terribly precise.

Let's go with 120 kLY across (radius = 60) and 10 kLY thick.

((Pi * 60,000^2) * 10,000 ) / (200^3) = 14,137,155 sectors

At 60 capital ships per sector, that's nearly a billion ships. On the order of tens of trillions of spacers. Not to mention escorts, tenders, and support vessels.

Going by the BFG core rulebook and the Rogue Trader supplements, a typical imperial sector is a mish-mash of xenos worlds, wilderness space, and uninhabitable/unnavigatable stretches. So that's already accounted for. However, huge swathes of the galaxy are uninhabited by humans. That means the area beyond the Astronomican, the area sterilized by the Tyranids, the Eye of Terror, etc etc etc. Figure 10% of the possible 200LY cubes are actually for-real Imperial sectors.

That's on the order of about a million sectors, 50 million capital ships, and maybe 3-4 times that in escort class vessels, plus countless auxiliary ships. Most of those ships at any given time will be in transit in the Warp, many will be on station at important worlds. A few will be in drydock for repairs. The rest will be on patrol, to be encountered once in a very rare while on lonely missions in the deeps of space.

Given the size of the galaxy, this number gives you an Imperial Navy that's spread incredibly thin while still plausibly covering the galaxy's volume.

>>49569544

If I'd actually read the rest of the thread I'd have seen this. Sorry. My calcs use better estimates of the galaxy's size. In particular, your thickness estimate is grossly exaggerated; if it were true then the galaxy would be a ball not a spiral.

Also you're squaring the diameter when you should be squaring the radius and multiplying by pi.

Overall good effort though. It motivated me to do what IMO are better numbers. Before I adjusted for the sparse distribution of sectors I had numbers that were in roughly the ballpark of yours.

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>>49576756
Cheers anon.
Like i said in my earlier post my calculations were wonky on all sorts of directions due to me calculating galaxy as a box instead of as a round thing it is.

Thanks for the better calculations >>49576721
now we have an idea of how huge the imperial navy is.

I've been wondering for a while now just how effective are planetary defences? What is the minimum size and number of ships to succesfully dominate a hive world?
And, given the size of the Imperial Navy and the amount of labor that goes into making a ship, how much of a threat chaos warbands actually are?

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>>49576854
>How effective are planetary defenses
It depends on the world, what's available and whose attacking, as I recall the crons were atomized trying to get to mars.
>Are chaos warbands actually a threat.
Yes, it all depends on if the navy can respond in time because they have to worry about every single rock in that sector that might have a use and scale them according to how important they are and respond accordingly, that and chaos likes to cause warp storms for the bigger events leaves the navy at a bit of a handycap.
>>49576721
Spire did say hundreds of billions of hands ready to die. Don't think he meant seviters though. The variations in ship design must be insane.

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>>49576854
Well, PDF troops are mostly to the guardsmen what the guardsmen are to the marines, cheap local speed bumpers that only exist to slow down the enemy till the big boys get into the battlefield.
Of course this varies between worlds, some worlds have PDF's that are as good or better than some or all guardsman regiments (see Cadian PDF being synonymous with the Cadian regiments).
As for their space ships, i gotta admit that i have no idea.
Id imagine that they have at best monitor ships (ships with no warp engines which patrol a system and are about as armed as your standard cruiser) as well as lots of escorts and if there is anything or anyone important on the planet, i suppose they could try requesting aid from their ship(s).

Of course, expecting that the PDFs are divided similarly to the guard being divided from the navy (thanks to the horus daddy issues), you would have the mud stompers and the fleet guys separately, if the space PDF are to the IN like their groundside cousins are to the IG, id guess they are also mainly working as a speed bumper till the imperial battleship froydian nightmare along with its battlegroup can get into the system and kill off some dirty xenos or heretics.

As for the Chaos warbands?
Let's see...
>Warp capable ships
>Mainly using hit and run tactics
>Ships vary in size from escorts to cruisers to battleships
>Warband is mostly very concentrated and makes pin point attacks while the IN is spread all over and has to answer any alarms set off by the locals
>Most chaos ships are either turned newer ships or old pre-heresy ships, thus making them at least in my head canon somewhat better than your average system defense ship at the very least

Also hive worlds are mostly dominated by the Arbites on the ground, not some navy ships.
Oh yes and the Arbites have some ships of their own too.

>>49564425
Remember that those cannons extend further into the ship than they do out of it, and all their transverse space is internal. What you see on the outside is just a hole the cannon inside the ship fires through.

They need room angle the cannon, still more space to house the loading equipment and magazines, targeting gear, etc. The cannon itself is probably one of the smallest components.

And after all that, you still need to save space for bulkheads, armor, transit, life support lines, and, well, the rest of the ship.

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>>49577056
>Loading equipment
You might as well have said it straight as "Slave dens".

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>>49577078
Hey, they're crew now, besides we wouldn't need them if the admech would start sharing tech.

>>49576943
>>49576936
So, if I get you right, unless it's a special case, most imperial worlds can provide only a nominal responce to voidship attacks and are defenceless against orbital bombardment. But if the attack isn't quick enough, intruders are likely to be steamrolled by IN, so it's actually hard for Chaos/pirates to take planets, but easy to turn them into shitholes.

>>49577104
Yeah, you've got it really.
Although anti-ship weapons and defenses do exist planetside. That's why the IN couldn't bombard the big cities on Vraks, they had layers of voidshields and fuckoff dangerous defensive lasers.

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>>49577078
I think this is an old GW pic of the same thing

>>49567121
I like this idea. Grizzled Navy veterans with thick accents and ageing blue tattoos covering their skin, instructing wide-eyed clean-skinned youngsters in the ways of the Navy.

>>49577130
no, that's clearly a torpedo.

>>49577130
That's what happens when the autoloader breaks down.

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>>49577125
>and fuckoff dangerous defensive lasers.
Which were, if memory serves, one of the first Apoc datasheets - in addition to being a big (but static) laser, you could use it to try and stop various types of Orbital Bombardment.

And one of the requirements was that it had a pompous-sounding name - that was actually in the unit entry

>The Imperium has long relied on sophisticated laser technology to engage the truly monstrous opponents that assail it from all sides. Though the lascannon may be potent enough in the field and well suited to the destruction of enemy armour, when a planet is beleaguered by alienbehemoths or hostile attack craft only one weapon in theImperium’s arsenal is truly up to the task.The Defence Laser is a monstrous engine of destruction solarge that it can usually only be mounted upon static platforms. The largest Defence Lasers use vast reservoirs of energy, blacking out power grids for miles around eachtime they fire. The blinding red blasts unleashed by aDefence Laser are so powerful that they can breach theatmosphere of a planet and engage targets in low orbit,making the weapon invaluable for repelling alien invasions.Even a glancing blow from a Defence Laser can be enoughto drive off anything up to a cruiser-class ship once its shields are down

>>49577181
...autoloaders? You don't see any admech symbols around do you?

>>49574863
Tau ships are slow as hell and mostly default to sitting in place nose towards the enemy. If you let your normal ship behavior take over, you'll orbit the clump firing one broadside while they slowly rotate to shoot everything they have, and between their firepower and their unique prow armor bonus (and the upgrade that applies armor shot negation to forward shields) you're going to get fucked. You're firing half your weapons and exposing your weakest armor to the enemy's full armory and strongest armor.

What you want to do is get up in their face and force them to break formatiom. You have better ramming and boarding capabilities, and while a Tau ship in the midst of the enemy is weakened by being forced to split their fire, IN ships instead grow stronger by having the opportunity to fire both broadsides. Your ideal position should be to force yourself into a ring within their fleet surrounding the greatest threat, allowing all your craft to fire one broadside at that target while wearing down the remainder with the other battery.

Strike craft are not very effective against Tau, since they have a wealth of defensive turret upgrades and tend to be close enough that ships can cover one another. Torpedoes at distance are similarly ineffective. Don't fire them in an opening salvo while rushing in; instead fire them after turning it into a melee when the opportunity arises. Melta torpedoes are the best choice in conjunction with focused fire on subsystems (you do remember to set those, right?), since the AI will trigger repairs for either the fires or systems damage and be forced to tank the other for the duration of the cooldown, which is usually enough time to severely damage the target.

Completely aside: isn't the Tau beta over? It disappeared from the beta options for me a while ago. I was still dicking around with my "Earth-caste for everyone!" bullshit fleet.

>>49572020

Because he is off by about 10% in a number he offhandedly throws out in a tangential argument?*

How much iconography and how many turns of phrase do we have from the Phoenecians? That's only 3000 years ago, and in their time their navy shook the world. Now most of what we remember are second hand accounts and their advances (most notably seamanship, paper-making, and popularizing the alphabet).

Given that you've got 20,000 years of literate, computerized culture during the DAoT, I'm not surprised that SOME of the cultural/linguistic/iconographic legacy of the modern age is retained, but by M41 humanity's cultural/historic slate has been wiped clean several times. There's just no way you'll see significant retention.

With that said, 40k is a game, obviously, and they come out and say that the faux latin and artwork is mostly meant to evoke a mood. High Gothic sounds more like chinese/english hybrid mutated into unrecognizeability, for example. What we see is a translation meant to make the grim future of 40k recognizable enough that a player can grasp it.


* You're off as well. We live in the first years of M3, so 40k is thirty eight thousand years in our future. Which reinforces your quibble, slightly, but then there's this article ( http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/journey-oldest-cave-paintings-world-180957685/?no-ist ) which pegs the oldest cave *painting* at 35,400 years. 40,800 is a year quoted for a red dot found in a cave; this was based on uranium dating and the margin of error is such that it's a wash whether he's right or you are... and that's assuming you accept a red dot as a "written record".

>>49577411
they are out already.

>>49577238
It broke down generations ago, and they can't find the parts to fix it.

>>49577104
There are System Defence ships without warp engines or any associated gubbins. Strictly in-system, all their tonnage devoted to combat effectiveness. Any decent world will have anti-orbital defences as well, and anti-air defences to deal with landing craft.
Orbital bombardment is tricky to get right due to orbital mechanics.

>>49577411
So, slice through their fleet from the sides?

>>49577463
Basically. The more you can split up their fire, the better, since you're spreading the damage across multiple shields, which means you're recovering more per second in regen. If they focus fire, that shit's toast.

>>49576943
>>49576943

I can actually answer this one. Planetary governors are responsible for space defenses for their systems, but are NOT permitted warp-capable warships. At best they might have a sloop or frigate for their personal use, and even that's a technical violation.

So mostly they have escort sized vessels. These are unusually well armed and shielded for their size (no need for warp engines) but not really suited for doing more than police work.

The cruiser-defeating power of a PDF is in its space stations and orbital weapons platforms. These tend to be cruiser-grade but obviously can't maneuver.

>>49576936
>Spire did say hundreds of billions of hands ready to die. Don't think he meant seviters though. The variations in ship design must be insane.

The Necrons did manage to get one ship onto Mars's surface, if I recall. After running the gauntlet of the most powerful system defenses in the Imperium.

Otherwise you're totally right. Hundreds of billions lines up with my calcs perfectly. And yes the variations in ships are so crazy that rough estimates and averages are all you can do.

>>49577104

Basically. The PDF navies and space stations are a speed bump. They dictate the minimum raiding force necessary to clear away the defenses and bombard the planet. But if that minimum force is great enough, then Chaos needs big, visible bases to sustain and crew them. Which the Navy can find and destroy. So mostly they stick to piracy and nibbling at the edges until they've built up enough strength for a war.

It also means that with intelligent use of monitors, space stations, and attack craft, you can protect a world enough that the planet is safe from anything short of a war fleet.

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>>49569523
Hrafnkel, but as far as I know, that ship's fate is unknown.

>>49571205
The Honour's fate is shown in the (pretty shitty, desu) graphic novel. It's only coming back out of the warp looooong after the heresy. I haven't read anything about it being sent to the breakers, but then again, I don't follow the publications that closely.

Either way, it's a crapshoot.

>>49577463
>It broke down generations ago, and they can't find the parts to fix it.
More likely they never had one to begin with because the admech likes to stay one step ahead of everyone and they won't give up something like that if they don't have too.
>>49577629
>The Necrons did manage to get one ship onto Mars's surface, if I recall.
You are correct, one managed to touch down a moment before being atomized.

>>49577671
That image got me into thinking.
>Imagine a fantasy setting where there are some massive castles on the lands which no one can approach due to the automaton defenders of these ruined castles
>These castles are actually ancient space ships that crashed on that planet and which crew either became the inhabitants of the world or died in the crash and now all that is left are the automatons preserving the ship and defending it

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>>49577708
There's probably a planet like that.

>>49576721

Also, I hasten to add, Imperium's merchant fleet is about ten times larger.

It's mostly Chartist ships: escort-sized vessels with Warp engines but no Navigator aboard. They make strictly pre-planned jumps along ancient, well-established trade routes. They don't change destinations or take detours because they can't.

Rogue Traders employ Navigators, of course. Mostly merchant ships, but most RTs have one or more escort-sized vessels with combat capability. Many have cruiser-sized merchant ships with very little combat capability. A few of the best have a cruiser class ship as their House flagship.

Space Marines and Adeptus Mechanicus both have extensive space fleets. The Inquisition has a few ships (the black ships come immediately to mind), as do the Arbites and others. Collectively, I'd say without any evidence that these various subfactions add up to a total strength equal to the Navy, but inferior in fleet combat capability.

>>49577705
>You are correct, one managed to touch down a moment before being atomized.

They were scout ships and the defences only managed to hit them because they finally slowed down to a halt above the Void Dragon's lair.

Investigation of the Necron incident led to the revelation that higher ups in Mars know that there might be a C'tan hiding there. The question is why haven't they tried to awaken it or destroy it.

>>49577828
>The question is why haven't they tried to awaken it or destroy it.
They probably don't know the first place to look.

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post naval TRACKS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OA2V4482FM

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>>49577708
Inferno! did a short little oneshot with something like that.

Bunch of feudal-seeming peasants exploring an old sinister castle that turns out to not be a castle.

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>>49577973
For those times you know you aren't returning to your home port.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYyLOxTYDUA

>>49577708
>Some of the ships landed hard - their impact created crater-valleys, ridges, that sort of thing
>A "volcano" or otherwise fiery mountain is actually an exposed reactor core

>>49577973
I think I will.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0cbkOm9p1k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ovf3lTi6U1Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KecIdlEAKhU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIwzRkjn86w

>>49579481
>tastetherainbow.jpg

>>49579481

It's even better because that's just a Cobra destroyer. A ship with tens of thousands of crewmen and enough firepower to level cities, and it can still be one-shotted by pretty much anything bigger than it in space.

>>49577828
The AdMech is an empire so secretive that even the Inquisition can not translate it's lingua franca and so decided that there are billions of subsects and not even the status of the Emperor is agreed upon.
There could be massive internal strife and unless they are in the cult themselves, other humans would have no idea that there was any.

>>49580305
*so devided
Curse my phone.

>>49578038
Imma need to see the rest of this, friend.

>>49562302

Cruisers take about a decade to make, a normal planet can make one at a time, forgeworlds can make upwards of a dozen at a time. There are hundreds of thousands of forge worlds alone and they have nothing but time to pump them out.

Escorts apparently are quite trivial to make and can be made by the squadron in a short amount of time.

>>49577708
Not fantasy, but Gorkamorka is pretty much that

>>49576041
Good idea, I'll have the spare heads when I build Rangers.

>>49577199
Ah, the days when you could deep strike one of those onto the table from reserves... What happened to you, 40k, you used to be cool.

>>49577973
This whole album is gold space shanties
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w34fSnJNP-4

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>>49582085
Gold.

>>49582085
Holy crap, thank you so much! Been looking for that forever.

>>49581539
>you could deep strike one of those onto the table from reserves
It's immobile, how the fuck do you figure you could Deep Strike it?

I mean I know you could Deep-Strike a Bastion (planetstirke attakcers asset, the Drop-Bastion) but that's because Planetstrike was rad as hell

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>>49561586
A dreadnought thread AND an imperial navy thread all in one day?

I must have been good.

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>>49585275
I had an idea to call Imperial superheavy ships dreadnoughts. It went that an admech magos on a ship yard saw the hulks of destroyed vessels and had a vision from the Omnissiah, that using their venerable hulls he could bring them new life as a superheavy warship, and what better name for their breed than that of the Astartes serving the Emperor even in death, Dreadnought. They would bare incredible strength and firepower, at the cost of complex logistics and quirks from the machine spirits, a byproduct of the diversity of the materials used.

>>49575028
Get this DBZ bullshit out of muh 40k

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Since we are talking Imperial Navy. Anyone been playing BFG: Armada online? And just how OP are the Tau really?

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>>49567742
What do you know about people who crawled out of the last Ice age ~12,000 years ago? What the fuck do you know of people who lived 30,000 years before them?

They new a dick when they saw one too. Chill.

>>49586400
>It's immobile, how the fuck do you figure you could Deep Strike it?

Check your old rulebooks on deploying Immobile units from reserves. At least in 5e and 6e the rule was that if a unit can't move, it deep strikes onto the table. I'm disappointed this rule got removed in 7e, where fortifications were deployed like units (as oppose to being deployed like terrain when the table was being set up). That means you could have taken a bastion, put 20 guardsmen into it, and deep strike it onto the board like a drop pod. Now they'd just appear to your table edge.

>>49573073
I'm going to use Tempestus Scion heads

>>49587401

Enjoying it a lot myself. They're not as OP as during the beta but still fairly strong.

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>>49589596
So you IN guys have fucked is the Imperium when the undead robot fleet shows up in BFG: Armada?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBYgngwEUAA
I'm guessing for the real version the Necrons will somehow have their fighters and bombers incorporated into the game.

>>49589933
>*how>have

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>>49580470
it's like six pages but okay

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five is >>49578038

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>>49582085
Another very good space navy themed filk song:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4wKJzVM1no

I did a 40k version once for a "grimdark songwriting" thread.

>>49567823
IG army based on a PDF naval force when? I wanna see frogmen with lasguns!

>>49582085
Some kind of hero is great, but that whole alblum is more ss13 then 40k

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>>49590210
Dawson's Christian is pretty easy to see in 40k. In fact, I borrowed stuff from the song when I was running a Rogue Trader games.

Another good shanty that I've seen somebody do a 40k version:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFeyKLkB3VM

>>49577738
Murder servitors. A moon or so chock full of em after a restock shipment of em got loose. Sounds like a good rogue trader adventure to me.

>>49576433
This picture always infuriates me at how incorrect it is, but I guess thats the point when making a b8

>>49577973
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhRWJ8ARpng
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUYpCHhQAzo
>the RT helmsman is deep in his cups when he breaks into song

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_poMZSUUyg
>one of the armsmen pulls out a drum

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I like the navy's uniform.

>>49561586
Any way you cut it the navy would be by far the pre eminent force in the imperium, it would be magnitudes larger than the imperial guard and every planet is totally dependant on it.

>>49567496
10 lashes for this faggot...

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D'you think the Imperial Guard bullies the navy's armsmen? Think there's a regiment out there of vengeful armsmen that lost their ships?

>>49576721
>>49569256
>>49562396
It's always bothered me how the population estimates of 40k are always understated. Same goes for most galaxy+ sized scifi. It wouldn't be unreasonable to assume the Imperium spans 100 million worlds. Assuming one planet per star, so the number could easily be much higher.

I always headcanon the galaxy to be andromeda sized at a trillion stars. The size of the Imperiums fleets is huge, which makes the Tyranid swarm absolutely staggering in comparison.

>>49586680
Or maybe they're both named after the old ship class?

>>49592855
Imperium is usually described an "an empire of a million worlds". That's probably not an exact number, but most fluff we have on the matter does seem to be consistent with the amount of planets under their control being in low millions. They're spread very thinly across the galaxy, though, with large areas of "wilderness space" between Imperial sectors (and even most sectors have large areas uninhabited or under xenos control).

>>49593398
It's the 41st millenium anon, I recall a bit of fluff stating that Nova Yorruk and Atlantys are said to be ancient cities, they get the idea for things but not the exact terminology.

>>49592777
>think there's a regiment out there of vengeful armsmen that lost their ships?
Absolutely. The entire point of the setting is that it's about your dudes. If your dudes are a bunch of experienced armsmen who managed to just barely get out of their "sinking," ships during a large battle, landed on a nearby planet, and all decided to form a series of regiments based on their fighting skills, then why not?

>>49592855
id go with 1 millions worlds being ones that you can easily send a couple of colony ships down and the colonists wouldn't die easily

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The Imperial Navy' aesthetic is so much better when it's old fashioned nautical equipment mixed with space stuff then when it's 40k GOTIC EVERYTHING stuff
But then again I think GOTHIC EVERYTHING is one of my least favorite parts of 40k

>>49573609

requesting some more 40k void suit pics.

>>49595637
Because 40k as a setting suffers from Flanderization.
It used to be about futuristic spec-ops riding ww1 APCs deployed from space cathedrals that fight like age of sail ships.
Now everything has to be barroque and feudal elevated to the n power. That's why only fake gregorian with synth organs is allowed.

>>49596372
The main mistake was trying to take that singular aesthetic and make an empire of billions of world follow it or force it into their own things.

To be honest, I actually like the space gothic/baroque aesthetic and pseudo-gregorian chant, It can be added to most of the worldly aesthetics well, but we agree that when it's done badly it fucks everything up.

>>49592777
It's possible any personnel worth saving are taken and put into new ships. Ratings and press gangs are, if no need for them exists, left to their own devices.

I find that pic a little troublesome, since all I've read suggests ship crews use stub guns, autoguns and shotguns, instead of las weapons, to minimize the potential damage to the ship. In the old days lasguns had as much penetration as bolters.

>>49596500
Individual worlds can have their aesthetics, but Imperium as a whole has its aesthetics and anything directly related to the Imperium should have some resemblance to each other. Navy yards make ships according to the blueprints of the people ordering the ships, not local flavors.

In the old days Guard too was much more homogeneous, since no matter what planet you came from, the Guard with issue the same fatigues and lasgun. It came later that all regiments were special snowflakes (thanks to Perry bros and their love for historicals, as I remember) with far less to do with one another, other than having some type of body armour and a lasgun.

>>49596634
I personally prefer the potential for individualism in the Imperium. Makes it easier to do "your dudes," and honestly with that many planets and cultures it's certainly to a degree inevitable that there's going to be variety.

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Is it just me, or do the Grand Cruisers look like they perfectly nail the IN aesthetic perfectly?

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>>49596634
>Navy yards make ships according to the blueprints of the people ordering the ships, not local flavors.
Not necessarily, like most things the Admech touches designs are subject to change.

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>>49596372
Don't forget the MARIACHI!

>>49593441
>>49592855
I kind of wish there was a version of 40k where bureaucracy was just so terrible that there were like a 100 seperate "imperium" governments who can count 1 million worlds who respond to them, with even the location of true Terra being lost around some general region where the Emperor's light works (and maybe so he could absorb life force from a significant distance to describe how multiple "Terras" contribute their own psyker life force to the beacon).

>>49587401
I can't get enough of them. I just wish their ships weren't so damn expensive. I know we get plenty of bang for our buck, especially with the riders, but I want bigger fleets! How am I supposed to include a battleship, a couple of cruisers AND some light cruisers and escorts in just 800 points?! The Custodian alone is half that!

>>49599314
Aren't a lot of tau ships able to summon smaller ships?

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>>49590101

>EEHHGGK

>>49599352
Not so many. It IS an ability for ships with a Water Caste contingent aboard, but for my money, you're better taking Earth for the big gun, Air for the turning and dodging (though oh my GOD, the micro required for that runs me ragged) or Fire for "Throne of Earth, how the hell are TAU successfully boarding things?! And why is all my shit now on fire?"

Thing is, for many Tau ships, you buy the line ship and then get two or three small escorts for free! Issue is that the escorts you get are pretty rubbish honestly and die if they so much as get LOOKED at by even a Sword-class and the Tau really need a strong escort screen to keep the enemy spotted and/or locked in place while their line ships pound them. Once the enemy's in range, you are MASSIVELY vulnerable to boarding actions, ramming or other brutal strategies.

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>>49599424
>MASSIVELY vulnerable to boarding actions
>exploitation intensifies

>>49600432

>rebar in a ship

>>49602250

>not expecting iron warrior vessels to be made from concrete

Faggot.

>>49602250
ceramite reinforced with titanium is an imperial material that has been mentioned in fluff. Landraider armour is one example IIRC

>>49596664
Yes, but just about all Marines are in MkII-VIII power armour of various configurations, regardless of what crap and colours they throw on them. Sisters are in form fitting power armour regardless of their hair colours. Imperial ships will be Gothic cathedrals regardless of whether you buy official or 3rd party minis. The underlying identity of the Imperium is Roman-Gothic.

IG is the only faction that breaks from this by being inspired by historicals, though even then they got the unifying things in terms of lasgun patterns, vehicles, etc. Hell, in most old metal regiments the dudes had the same fatigues, lasgun and often shoulder pads and it was only the colour and decorations that changed. Cadians had shoulder pads and helmets. Tallarn had shoulder pads and towels. Mordians had epaulets and caps. Praetorians had epaulets and pith helmets. All were otherwise pretty much identical. Catachans and 1st and Only were different with their Mk. 4 carbines and less uniform look.

>>49598906
So where's the Imperial ships that looks like the Enterprise, a Star Destroyer, etc.? Where are these vastly different ship designs that break the norm when it comes to Imperial ships?

>>49602560
No-one ever said 'vastly', because even with divergent designs you've still got to use a lot of imperial standard parts and be able to be served by other shipyards.

You'd never get something like the Enterprise, but extend the bows and flattening something like >>49598589 might give you something similar to a Star Destroyer - though that's not a shape that's particularly conducive to the way 40k's void warfare works

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>>49602560
There's only a handful of IN art as it is, and models aren't even in production anymore. And that's not even getting into the logistical restrictions on GW.

Also the designs you suggested are protected by copyright, and they're stupid designs.

>>49599046
It is not allowed. The DoW newfriends still bitch and cry about it to this day.

>>49602667
>>49602616
So, end of the day, there's the Imperial design with alterations here and there?

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>>49602667
>protected by copyright

But, like with GW stuff, you can make something that looks like it without being a direct copy of it.

>they're stupid designs

At least they're not blocks of concrete with broadside guns, and thousands of dudes using ropes and chains to load torpedoes and macro-cannons for salvos.

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>>49602833
>blocks of concrete
Where on earth did you get that idea?
Broadside guns, hey bringing more power to bear in an arc of fire is better than limiting your damage for the sake of a better range of fire.
>ropes and chains
Blame the admech, they have it.

They're leagues better than than the disc headed 'explorer vessel' with the exposed engines.

>>49577828
The Martian landing fluff originally occurred because the necrons (oldcrons) used inertialess drives ie could fold space time to get around.

They didn't fly through the defenses as much as just appeared near the surface before getting annihilated.

I don't know at all how newcrons get around since they retconned it to hijacking the webway for troop movement.

>>49602874
>Where on earth did you get that idea?

Well, when you look at all the art depicting boarding action and you see massive holes on the side of ships, looks awfully lot like reinforced concrete.

Also, what's wrong with using concrete for making space ships? It's airtight, can be cast into shapes and on the go (don't have to make piece in a factory and move them to location), it's durable to pressure. Hell, they even thought about making subs out of it.

>bringing more power to bear in an arc of fire is better than limiting your damage for the sake of a better range of fire.

On a star destroyer, for example, the isn't much stopping from the ship from bringing all its firepower to the front arc, thanks to the wedge shape. On a broadside at most you can bring half the ship's firepower to bear at a time.

>Blame the admech

Doesn't matter who you blame, it's still rampant across Imperial ships.

>>49602560
The oldest vessels look like tridents or multi pronged forks.

Then knives.

Then the more current blue water navy look.

And that only really applies to the much more uniformed IN.

System ships are much more varied in design and you will never find two rogue trader ships that look exactly alike.

>>49603092
>The oldest vessels look like tridents or multi pronged forks.

Don't think those space fleet ships are even canon anymore.

>System ships are much more varied
>you will never find two rogue trader ships that look exactly alike

But does their general aesthetics differ drastically from the Imperial Gothic stuff? I mean, they're not sleek neon ships with silver chrome and glossy surfaces, now are they?

>>49603084
The Imperium used to have many more weapons that traversed to fire forward but combat doctrine changed. They went with heavier broadside weapons as they can build bigger guns if they are relatively fixed and slapped dozens of meters of extra armor on the prow. This acts as an ablative as they close against enemy vessels to engage with the broadsides. It also drastically facilitates ramming on the very rare occasions they occur by mitigating the damage to your own vessel.

Fore weapons now comprise of torpedo tube banks and nova cannons.

How they fight has changed over the millenia.

>>49603132
It is still cannon. All three of the Abyss class vessels in the HH series are described as such.

>But does their general aesthetics differ drastically from the Imperial Gothic stuff?

Depends on the rogue trader and how much he likes parts availability. But why should they differ "drastically"? Federation ships don't really differ much. Galactic Empire ships don't differ much. There's at least as much variability within the IN as those two without making completely different designs for no reason.

>>49603084
>Hell, they even thought about making subs out of it.
And we didn't because it's a terrible material for a ship, especially when future materials are available. As for what you saw, it's not reinforced concrete, it's just a poor interperitation.
>On a broadside at most you can bring half the ship's firepower to bear
And that broadside carries more firepower than several stardestroyers. And their weapons work differently.
>Doesn't matter who you blame, it's still rampant across Imperial ships.
Yes it does because the admech withholds autoloaders from the navies ships while installing them on their own ships.

>>49603185
>All three of the Abyss class vessels in the HH series are described as such.

Very well.

>why should they differ "drastically"?

You tell me, I'm not the one who's against Imperium having a unified style because of "muh dudes".

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>>49602560
Those ships are all from very different settings, and in-setting most ships of the same group still tend to follow the same design. All Federation ships in Star Treck are some variation of "saucer-shaped front and twin nacellaes", all SW Empire capital ships have the same basic wedge shape, etc. Imperium isn't any different in that regard, in fact they're actually more diverse sicne they technically have two very different patterns of most ship classes (the rectangular prism with ramming prow, ie. standard IN ships, and the more flattened one with wedge-shaped prow, ie. Chaos ships, which fluffwise are older Imperial patterns that are still around but less common than the ramming prow ships).

All Imperial designs are also based on STC blueprints, so ships produced anywhere in the galaxy will have a degree of uniformity due to using the same basic design (coming up with something from scratch would be considered very big tech-heresy by the Mechanicus).

However, while the basic hull stays the same, there's actually a lot of variation in details. BFG had three distinct patterns of ships based on the same STC design: the Cypra Mundi pattern (top), ie. the standard IN models you also see in the videogame, the Voss pattern (middle), with a shorter prow and a big eagle-shaped ramming spike at the top of the prow, and the Kar Duniash pattern (bottom), which is mostly like Cypra Mundim but with a slightly longer prow and no decorations on the prow (this was in BFG only used for the rogue trader cruiser model).
Individual ship classes also vary a lot based on location, as Imperial ships are very modular. It's very common for a new ship class to be created due to damaged ships getting broken weapon systems replaced with something else (the Dictator-class for example started its life as damaged Lunars that had their lance batteries replaced with launch bays), or the ships being customized to fit the local naval doctrine.

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>>49603140
>The Imperium used to have many more weapons that traversed to fire forward

What are you basing this on, if I might ask?

>>49603290
>it's a terrible material for a ship

How so?

>when future materials are available

Which cost more and cannot be made in a single piece on site.

>it's just a poor interperitation

Of what?

>that broadside carries more firepower than several stardestroyers
>their weapons work differently

Ok, but here's the thing, imagine you made an Imperial cruiser the size of a star destroyer and equipped it with star wars weapons. Now pit it against a star destroyer. Or take a star destroyer, blow it up to Imperial cruiser size and give it Imperial weapons. Then pit it against an Imperial cruiser.

>Yes it does

Yet end of the day, Imperial cruisers use ropes and chains to load their guns and torpedo tubes. Nothing about that has changed.

>>49603357
End of the day, my problem is when people say Imperium shouldn't have a unified aesthetic and there should be more individualism in design for "your dudes," it strikes to me like they don't want there to be a unified aesthetic to Imperial designs.

If you look at those 3 ships, sure, there's differences, but they're all of the same aesthetic design. It's like Apple products or playstation controllers. Sure, they're different, but you can see more similarities between them than another product of the same type.

I'm all for personalized design and there being variations, but it's one thing to take an X-wing and put aquilas on the sides and making an Imperial fighter in the style of an X-wing, but still very much a flyer fitting of the 40k aesthetics.

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>>49603403
>What are you basing this on, if I might ask?
You know those chaos vessels with the lances and the turrets? Where do you think they came from?

>How so?
It's not strong enough to resist bombardment, look at the reports on proposed concrete vessels.
>Which cost more and cannot be made in a single piece on site.
They can on a forge world, which are right below where these ships are made.
>Of what?
Of an IN ship.
>Or take a star destroyer, blow it up to Imperial cruiser size and give it Imperial weapons.
that's basically the idea behind old Imperial ship designs.
>Nothing about that has changed.
Yes but there's a clear explanation for why.

>>49603448
>You know those chaos vessels with the lances and the turrets?

Many of which have been made post-Heresy. There's Chaos vessels that have been designed in like M38, while some of the vessels in Imperial service today date back to before the Imperium. I think the Emperor class battleships were based on pre-Imperial designs.

Also, I find Chaos ships to be way more dependent on their broadsides. Sure, there's a 270 degree turret, but more often than not it's a Str. 6 weapon battery. Possibly with a 30cm range. Compare that to half-a-dozen torpedoes or a nova cannon on the front arc. Some Chaos ships do have forward firepower, but vast majority of the firepower is positioned on the broadsides.

>It's not strong enough to resist bombardment

You can armour it up. Also, so what if it gets breached, you just seal the compartment and continue on. It's not like the ship sinks once it takes in enough vacuum. Also, plascrete is said to combine the durability of plasteel while being as easy to make as rockcrete (40k concrete). They make terminator armour and Russes out of plasteel with ceramite inserts.

>which are right below where these ships are made

The key word being "below". Now you just have to move that 10km long single piece plasteel hull into space. While you can use something like plascrete to cast the single piece hull in orbit and be as durable as the plasteel hull.

>old Imperial ship designs

Like all the Chaos cruisers? That are newer than some of the 30k era ones?

>Yes but there's a clear explanation for why.

And even then, ropes and chains. Nothing has changed.

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Since IN has a large amount of upgrades, refits, and favors they can pick from for their fleet.
How would you do it for a fleet such as Necrons? Since they get upgrades, refits, and favors just like IN or are there ships already too powerful and adding more would be OP.
So how would you balance this in a campaign? Is it just any auto win for Necrons if you added customizing to the army?

>>49603522
>Many of which have been made post-Heresy.
With pre-heresy designs by the dark mechanicum, regardless they were made with a doctrine in mind that the IN no longer uses.
>You can armour it up.
Then you're getting less strength per pound than if you just used ceramite and adamantine. Sealing a breach with concrete in a zero-g environment is daft as it won't keep it's form. They make terminator armor out of adamantine with ceramite inserts.
>Now you just have to move that 10km long single piece plasteel hull into space.
No, you're moving the adamantine, plasteel ceramite and any other materials need into space where you forge them into hulls and beams and parts.
>That are newer than some of the 30k era ones?
Some are, the dark mechanicum is more adventurous than it's loyalist counterpart.
>Nothing has changed.
Technically speaking it has as they used to have auto loaders.

>>49603522
The Emperor class has a fuckton of forward facing macro batteries.

>>49603584
>With pre-heresy designs

Do give source for this.

>Then you're getting less strength per pound than if you just used ceramite and adamantine

But you also get the benefit of ease of manufacture and not spending astronomical amounts of adamantium on the hull of the ship. We don't use aluminium over steel because it's stronger.

>it won't keep it's form

Liquids stick very well to surfaces in zero-G and concrete is somewhat viscous, so it's not like you're working with a bubble of water.

>They make terminator armor out of adamantine with ceramite inserts.

Nope. Adamantium forms the exoskeleton of the suit, those ribs you see on the legs and arms. The armour itself is plasteel and ceramite.

>>49603640
>With pre-heresy designs

>Do give source for this.

If you actually ask for this, you're the farthest thing from understanding the Imperium as can be lad.

>>49603132
>they're not sleek neon ships with silver chrome and glossy surfaces, now are they?

Should see some of the ships that Rogue Traders get their hands on, anything from Chaos, Tau, Necron, you name it, if they can find a way to fly it they will fly it. Just a matter of making sure you don't run head first into an Ordo's

>>49603640
>Do give source for this.
Despoiler, Desolator and Acheron at least, come to mind.
>But you also get the benefit of ease of manufacture
At the cost of quality, the same arguments were made for concrete battleships and they lost anon, because it's a stupid idea.
>Liquids stick very well to surfaces in zero-G
And you expect this to go well during battle, not to mention the space required to make these materials, and it'll be a lot to match adamantine,.
>Nope. Adamantium forms the exoskeleton of the suit
So they make terminator armor out of adamantine ceramite and plasteel.

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>>49577708
This is pretty much the plot of Laputa: Castle in the Sky.

>>49577828
>>49577875
>>49580305
It's heavily implied in the original Necron codex and short stories that there are at least a few Magos are serving the Void Dragon, or at least so captivated by what they know they want to protect it. A few others know/suspect of it's existence inside the Noctis Labyrinth; one went so far as to petition the site be glassed from orbit and the crater paved over with ferrocrete after the aforementioned landing incident, but he was blocked by several other high-ranking Magos.

>>49603678
Anon, you're the one claiming the Imperium hasn't invented anything since the Great Crusade ended.

Murder class cruisers were made between M33 and 37, based on a whole new plasma weapon design formulated by Admech. Styx was used between M32 and 33 before being phased out. Acheron was a test bed for new weapon systems and the only one built turned traitor during the Gothic War. Hecate was designed to replaced the Styx in M33.

>>49603699
>Despoiler, Desolator and Acheron at least, come to mind.

Despoiler was made by Imperialis using the blueprints of the Terminus Est. The ships later turned traitor (due to a faulty Gellar field design) and went to Chaos side. It wasn't really a Dark Mechanicus invention. Desolators date back to the early days of the Imperium. Acheron was built by Imperials for testing new weapon systems and it went rogue during the Gothic war. So if we assume the thing just sat for next to 10,000 years on the ship design, it's not really pre-Heresy.

>same arguments were made for concrete battleships

I talked about subs, not battleships. Also, battleships need to worry about sinking, space ships do not. And you're still ignoring the fact that plascrete is as strong as plasteel, and just about everything is made from plasteel.

>And you expect this to go well during battle, not to mention the space required to make these materials,

How do you expect to fix a breached metal hull and where do you expect to keep all the materials needed to repair that breach?

>it'll be a lot to match adamantine

So why doesn't Imperium make their ships out of it? Because they only make the prow on some of their ship designs out of it to help ramming and withstand fire when moving in.

>So they make terminator armor out of adamantine ceramite and plasteel.

Except the adamantium doesn't offer any protection, it's only for the support structure. Ceramite and plasteel are what the actual armour is made out of.

>>49603016
I hate ignorant jackasses like you.

Dude, the Necron Mars landing was mentioned in the post-5th Newcron codex era. Specifically, in the Priest of Mars novel series. The dudes in the book discussed the Necron ships incident and theorized that there a C'tan Shard sleeping there.

You are way behind in the fluff. You better get to reading.

>>49603921
Also the Newcron inertialess drives are at near-light speed. However, their ships can go from zero to near-light speed almost instantaneously. This makes it hard for anyone to target them.

>>49603921
I never said anything about there not being a ctan there or that they landed.

I'm not arguing what the new fluff says.

I was just pointing out in the older fluff the literally appeared in low orbit over Mars bypassing 95% of the Solar system's defenses with the way their old drives worked.

I just finished Gods of Mars last month.

Calm the fuck down.

>>49603921
You're behind the fluff, dingus. Mars Landing was in the first Codex.

>>49603860
>Despoiler was made by Imperialis using the blueprints of the Terminus Est.
I am well aware.
However all of these designs existed before the heresy, often before the imperium. These designs are no longer used by the imperium and are inly built by the dark mechanicum.
>I talked about subs, not battleships.
I don't care, there have been propositions for both. And you're ignoring that plascrete is as strong as plasteel IN THE RIGHT PROPORTIONS, it will take significantly more plascret than it will take plasteel or adamantine and will offer less protection.
>How do you expect to fix a breached metal hull
By sealing the affected sections and going back to port, or scavenging the battlefield if I have too.
>Because they only make the prow on some of their ship designs
And all those layers of adamantine works damn well doesn't it?
>Except the adamantium doesn't offer any protection
Except you just said it did, and adamantine is one of the best materials available for impact protection, but ceramite works better for dissipating heat from energy weapons, that's why they're both used.

>>49603962
I wasn't arguing that it wasn't in the first codex. I am saying that it was ported to the Newcron lore, you google.

>>49603959
I will not calm down. Familiarize yourself with how the new Necron drives. Do it now.

>>49603966
>However all of these designs existed before the heresy

And other designs, like Murder, were created after the Heresy.

Also, wasn't your argument that Imperial ship design has changed to suit the style of fighting they engage in now. So why did they revive pre-Heresy ship designs if they weren't suitable to their new way of fighting? Or was this new way of fighting even newer than that?

>plascrete is as strong as plasteel IN THE RIGHT PROPORTIONS

[citation needed]

>it will take significantly more plascret than it will take plasteel or adamantine and will offer less protection

Wait, you're saying that even with more plascrete, it will not be as strong as plasteel? It's not like Imperial ships got to worry about few meters more or less of hull or few million tons of mass here or there.

>By sealing the affected sections and going back to port

But with a plascrete hull this is impossible and ill-advised? Also, what kind of a retard doesn't pack away some stuff to repair the hull even as an emergency measure? What if the breached area contained something important? Well, lets hope we don't need it that badly as we limp back to base or hope we come across something we can use to plug the hole. Brilliant!

>And all those layers of adamantine works damn well doesn't it?

Yet the Imperium doesn't seem to want to make their entire ships out of it. Almost as if there was a reason for it, like adamantium not being that common of a metal to find or there being more important uses for it. You know, logistics. If making the best you could won you the victory, Germany would have never lost WW2 to armies that min-maxed their designs. Soviets in particular were good at crunching the numbers and squeezing every last drop out of their equipment so that nothing went to waste. But that can't be, it'd be stupid to compromise, surely they should have just put all the best stuff into their tanks and win the day.

>>49603966
>Except you just said it did

No, I didn't. I said that the adamantium on terminator armour is used for the support structure, not protection. The armour plating itself is made out of plasteel and ceramite.

>that's why they're both used.

Nope, plasteel and ceramite are used for armour, adamantium is only for the support frame that carries the weight of the suit.

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Just in case it hasn't been posted yet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StCXrBMl648
New Tau Trailer for BFG: Armada
>TFW that surprise ambush at the end
Demiurge > TFW surprise butt sex face

>>49602790
I genuinely hope that music is I'm the game somewhere, even if it's just playing in some corpse filled room somewhere as an easteregg.

Busted servitor mariachi band in the officers rec room go!

>>49604285
the launch trailer was better

>>49604198
>And other designs, like Murder
I didn't bring up murder now did I?
>So why did they revive pre-Heresy ship designs
Who is they? The Imperium doesn't manufacture these designs anymore though some surviving vessels are still maintained in loyalist fleets.
>[citation needed]
See steel and concrete.
>Wait, you're saying that even with more plascrete
Yes I am, because per pound plasteel and adamantine perform better.
>It's not like Imperial ships got to worry about a few meters of hull
Actually they do, that's there armor.
>But with a plascrete hull this is impossible and ill-advised?
With a plascrete hull you won't survive long enough to make the decision.
>what kind of a retard doesn't pack away some stuff to repair the hull
Warships, warships don't pack that kind of gear baring equipment and minor fixes.
>Well, lets hope we don't need it that badly
Yeah pretty much, welcome to void warfare.
>Yet the Imperium doesn't seem to want to make their entire ships out of it.
Nor do they make them out of plascrete, but I see a Hell of a lot more adamantine in use.
>No, I didn't.
Yes you did in reference to armored prows.
>Nope
Yes, as the 'frame' is made of the sturdiest material commonly in use in the Imperium, to think it doesn't afford any protective qualities is foolish, but that's par the course with you.
And we're not talking about terminator armor we're talking about warships.

>>49604342
Speaking of which here's the ending.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTCnxntaGpE
So is this closest we're ever going to get to an Imperial Navy or any WH40K space battle CGI movie, right? So you think this captures the feel of IN correctly, anons?

>>49604352
>I didn't bring up murder now did I?

You brought up Chaos ships and Murder is a Chaos ship. Not all Chaos ships are pre-Heresy design and not all Imperial ships are post-Heresy design.

>Who is they?

Imperium.

>The Imperium doesn't manufacture these designs anymore though some surviving vessels are still maintained in loyalist fleets.

They did in M36. So if the story is that Imperium's tactics have changed and so have their ship designs, and Chaos ships represent the design Imperium doesn't use anymore, when did this switch happen, since Despoiler class was not a thing before M36.

>See steel and concrete.

See plasteel and plascrete.

>per pound plasteel performs better

[citation needed]

>adamantine perform better

And is rarer and thus it wouldn't make sense to waste it.

>Actually they do, that's there armor.

And if you can get the same amount of protection from 10 feet of plascrete as you get from 5 feet of plasteel, where's the problem?

>With a plascrete hull you won't survive long enough to make the decision.

Explain.

>Warships, warships don't pack that kind of gear baring equipment and minor fixes.

According to what? Warships specifically pack stuff to repair and replace stuff, because they have to survive for long times without support and can't just limp back to base whenever something goes wrong.

>welcome to void warfare.

I'd love to see your sources on this allegation.

>Nor do they make them out of plascrete

Official art speaks against your claims, no matter how much you don't like it.

>Yes you did in reference to armored prows.

Context? Yes, armoured prows with adamantium armour does use adamantium as armour. Fucking shocking. Terminator armour, where the adamantium is a few rods supporting the weight of the suit, it offers no real protection and all the armour plates is made from plasteel and ceramite.

>>49604481
>as the 'frame'

Yes, look at a terminator model. See those rods visible at the back of the legs, on the thighs and on the arms. That's the adamantium. The rest is plasteel and ceramite.

>that's par the course with you

If you think a rod of admantium running across your arm is contributing in any significant way to your protection, I don't know what to tell you. I'll be happy to test it with you. Just hold this metal rod while I put a few bullets into you.

>we're not talking about terminator armor we're talking about warships.

And terminators were brought up to show the durability of plascrete in comparison to modern concrete as it has the durability of plasteel, which in turn, with ceramite, forms the armour of both terminator suits and Leman Russ tanks, two very well armoured things in the Imperial arsenal.

So plascrete is not just normal concrete.

>>49604481
>You brought up Chaos ships and Murder is a Chaos ship.
I brought up specific Chaos ships, some are new.
>They did in M36.
And the design is older than that.

I can answer most of you points with this question, if plascrete is so wonderful why doesn't the imperium use it for more design on tanks, titans and SM armor? Because it doesn't perform as well, it is an inferior material and only an idiot would think of using it on anything but a static fortification.

>Warships specifically pack stuff to repair and replace stuff
And a chunk of hull is not one of them.

>Official art speaks against your claims
No it does not, your perception of the art in question is flawed.

>I'd love to see your sources on this allegation.
See every instance of vessels in battle, fiction and non-fiction, ever.

>Terminator armour, where the adamantium is a few rods supporting the weight
It's not a few rod, it's a whole frame, if you think that doesn't afford you any protection then hand over your skeleton right now.

>with ceramite, forms the armour of both terminator suits and Leman Russ tanks
And adamantine. As you'll note plascrete isn't anywhere fucking near those things.

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>>49604578
>some are new.

New pre-Heresy designs?

You talked about post-Heresy ships using pre-Heresy designs. Only the Despoiler fits that bill. Desolator has been in use since the dawn of the Imperium, so it's not a post-Heresy made ship and the Acheron was made quite likely around the Gothic War, seeing that the only prototype made was lost during it.

>why doesn't the imperium use it for more design on tanks, titans and SM armor

Because weight and size matters on tanks, titans and bodyarmour. A 10km long space cathedral lumbering through space and relying on armour, shields and a bristling array of armaments does not have to worry about shaving off a few pounds. It's not going to sink or worry about crushing under its weight.

>And a chunk of hull is not one of them.

You don't need a chink of hull, just a few sheets you can weld over the breach.

>No it does not, your perception of the art in question is flawed.

Ok, Eagle Eye, what sort of adamantium or plasteel is this >>49603403? Because that looks very much like reinforced concrete to me.

>it's a whole frame

Yes, as we can see from pic related, all those red bits pretty much cover the entire suit.

>hand over your skeleton right now

Ok, anon, if you're so trusting in your skeleton's ability to protect you, lets replace your skeleton with adamantium and I'll take this shotgun and put a few shells into you. You should be just fine, right?

>As you'll note plascrete isn't anywhere fucking near those things.

Except plascrete is equal to plasteel.

>>49603584
>With pre-heresy designs by the dark mechanicum, regardless they were made with a doctrine in mind that the IN no longer uses.
Actually, several of the newer Chaos vessels were originally made by the Imperium long after the Heresy. Some were failures with a design suspectible to corruption, others are based on doctrines no longer in common use, and thus relegated to reserve fleets or low-priority sectors, while some would have been perfectly fine ships but had the plans and prototype stolen by Chaos-worshippers.

The doctrinal change to armor-prowed ships actually only happened in M36, 6000 years after the Heresy, and many of the older ships are still in service, although primarily in reserve fleets. The Murder-class cruiser in particular was the standard Imperial cruiser before the doctrine change caused the Lunar-class to take the place, and is still common across the Imperium (unlike a lot of Chaos ships, the class has never shown a particular disposition to corruption, and is only common among Chaos fleets because the sheer amount of them in service means that lots of them have defected over the millennia).

File: 1434057453339.jpg (97KB, 600x595px)

97KB, 600x595px

>>49604735
>New pre-Heresy designs?
You know damn well that's not what I meant.

>Because weight and size matters on tanks, titans and bodyarmour.
And the efficient use of materials matters to the Imperium. Using more of one to achieve the equal effect of another is a waste of resources to achieve an inferior product.

>just a few sheets you can weld over the breach.
Why? There's no need to do that when the are can be sealed of and fixed in port, doing that is a waste of time.
>what sort of adamantium or plasteel is this
Void grade, don't be a smart ass if you've never seen steel blasted by artillery. Here's the belt armor used to make the fucking Yamato, looks a lot like a busted rock doesn't it?

>all those red bits pretty much cover the entire suit.
And you don't see the bands that spread underneath.

>You should be just fine, right?
I'll certainly be several magnitudes better.

>Except plascrete is equal to plasteel.
In the proper fucking proportions you git.

>>49604866
>ctually, several of the newer Chaos vessels were originally made by the Imperium long after the Heresy.
True, however the designs have often existed before the imperium came to be.

File: necron fleet.jpg (27KB, 400x246px) Image search: [Google]

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>Imperial Navy
>See pic related coming straight at it
>WHAT DO?!

Compared to everyone else, how well does the Imperial Navy stack up?

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1MB, 400x171px

>>49607303

File: battlefleet_gothic_armada-09.jpg (2MB, 1920x1080px)

2MB, 1920x1080px

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHgu_fBlSjk
>TFW the Ork fleet in this are not a joke.
So somebody actually made the Orks not suck at something.
Well, color me surprised.

>>49604884
>You know damn well that's not what I meant.

Do I? Because when I look back at this conversation:
>>49603140
>The Imperium used to have many more weapons that traversed to fire forward but combat doctrine changed.
>>49603403
>What are you basing this on, if I might ask?
>>49603448
>You know those chaos vessels with the lances and the turrets? Where do you think they came from?
>>49603522
>Many of which have been made post-Heresy.
>>49603584
>With pre-heresy designs by the dark mechanicum, regardless they were made with a doctrine in mind that the IN no longer uses.
>>49603640
>Do give source for this.
>>49603699
>Despoiler, Desolator and Acheron at least, come to mind.
etc. etc.

I no longer had no idea what you're trying to say. Imperium used to have ships with wider arcs of fire, yet of the examples you give two entered service way after the Heresy (ok, Terminus Est existed before, but it was a single ship, the copies didn't come into service until M36). So, again, when did, according to you, this switch from wider fields of fire to more broadside centric fighting style happen?

>And the efficient use of materials matters to the Imperium.

Exactly? And casting your ship hull in orbit from concrete as good as plasteel is much more efficient use of resources than casting plasteel hull pieces on the planet and lifting the pieces up into orbit.

>>49609290
>Why?

So that you don't lose the use of whole sections of a ship because of a little gap in the wall?

In your military genius if a ship gets a breach in its hull, it might as well be scuttled and the crew cast into the sea than try and plug the holes. Here's Royal Navy simulator for repairing hull breaches:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXC6U0NfJg8
Real world Navies see the benefit of plugging holes, rather than just sealing off the section and limping back home, hoping they don't need that whatever was in the section of the ship that had to be evacuated because of a little hole nobody could fix because Admiral Genius didn't see any reason to have repair kits on board. But I guess you're a bigger expert in military matters than actual militaries.

>looks a lot like a busted rock doesn't it

You know what I don't see? Rebars sticking from from your adamantium and plasteel hull. Nor your Yamato hull.

>And you don't see the bands that spread underneath.

You mean the two bands at the top and bottom of the greaves with the same 4 struts connecting them as on the thighs. Yes, that's totally gonna stop a any and all damage to the leg. It's amazing they even need all that plasteel and ceramite on there, just have the Marine wear an adamantium frame, that'll protect him as good as anything from battle cannons, plasma cannon blasts and turbo-lasers.

>I'll certainly be several magnitudes better.

Yes, because your ribs form a solid, impenetrable wall protecting your lungs and heart. Your spine totally protects your guts. Your hip bone is more and adequate protection for your groin. And above all else, your soft tissues is made impervious to damage by being wrapped around your strong bones.

>In the proper fucking proportions you git.

To which you've provided no evidence.