Mantic's KoW

>>49552110
Did you actually try age of Sigmar and find it not to your liking, or did you just believe all the memes?

>>49552151
I've read the rules and watched a few games. I really don't like it.

>eh, I'll get into it when the historical rules come out and I can play my romans against skaven
>check website
>it came out 2 days ago
FUCK

>>49552110
i find it dull, boring, and tries too hard to be balanced and competitive friendly.

but it's biggest offender is the thing where you don't remove models from damage.

i understand many like it, and that's fine, but I wonder if people only like it because hating AoS has become a meme

It's simple, precise and tactically deep.
There's not a lot to say, because everything is right there in the rules and the core rules are free on the website.
I really like it, but some people can't get over the abstractions.

>>49552151
I mean Sigmar's not at all similar to Kings of War at all really so it's not even a valid comparison.

On topic, Kings of War is the game I always wished Warhammer was. Easy to get into, but with a lot of subtleties to master, without being bloated and unwieldy.

>>49552587
Removing models adds nothing but making combat take a little longer.

>>49552587
>Likes model removal in mass combat game

It's tedious, more likely to damage models, prevents multi-basing and it can be simulated quicker and easier with a rules abstraction at this scale.

>>49552180
So you didn't try it?

>>49552151
I personally liked the rank and file of 8th edition. If I wanted circular bases I would play 40k.

>>49552110
KoW has been my favorite game since 2nd ed landed last year. Play it every week, despite the simple ruleset there is plenty of depth to keep things interesting.

File: 13735796_10154185956260225_9166190721824939204_o.jpg (590KB, 2048x1053px) Image search: [Google]

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I like kings of war. Can use my warhammer models. Can use most kings of war models in warhammer fantasy.

>>49552110
Personally, I find it a sort of bland game; it definetly plays fine, and I will say that the rules are simple, yet deep and enjoyable. Some factions have some power creep in em, but they make up for it by having a huge variety of lists.

But the thing that urks me the most are the Mini's; they range from good(Undead, Goblins) to passable(Orcs, Ogres) to straight up insulting(Elves, Basilieans, Tomb King Expies). Thank god they allow for mini's from other manufacturers, otherwise this game would be dead on arrival.

Mantic as a whole, I somewhat find dumb; with KoW being the only manufacturer backed WHFB expy on the market, they blew the huge oppertunity that the End Times Hype/Age of Sigmar hate tidal wave presented, and instead focused on their retarded sci-fi games.

>>49552110
Its a fun game with simple rules and deep mastery. Honestly is also super bland, spells are short and don't hope for anything strong or creative in them and artillery is a waste of point (with 3 artilleries hitting at 5+ you only secure for them to do something every 3 turns).

It does lot of things right, from game mechanics to allowing miniatures from different companies to giving cheap alternatives of miniatures. But it also shows how green it is as it doesn't have the lore or flavor to entertain people by diving in the fantasy world.


BTW, have someone tried trident realm or abyss forces? I'm waging which faction to build once I finish my main one and both seem quite interesting.

>>49555712
Yes.

Except at a GW store, but nobody plays at GW stores anyway. So it's a moot point.

>>49555098
>Removing models adds nothing but making combat take a little longer.
>>49555612
>It's tedious, more likely to damage models, prevents multi-basing and it can be simulated quicker and easier with a rules abstraction at this scale.

All at the sacrifice of immersion. Where when you used to look at a unit that is a fraction of its original size from the beginning, showing that that unit is bravely fighting to the last man, or it becomes easy to see who is gaining the upper hand, now you just see 2 bricks meet each other in the middle, dice are rolled, and either nothing happens, or one disappears; then you lose the little cinematic appeal of it.

And that's the problem I have with KoW. It's a fine game, in that the mechanics and gameplay are pretty solid, but it feels so bland. Like the goal isn't to show the great epic struggles within the battles, it's just so a system has a solid competitive balance. It feels very gamey, and less narrative GW plz dont sue

I'd like your opinion on something.

How do Forces of Nature play compared to the Trident Realms?

I like the Naiads infantry and Wyrm Riders, but don't know if they make more sense to use as part of an actual Naiad army, or a Forces of Nature army.

>>49552110
The ruleset is solid, games play fast compared to WHFB and it's more balanced than about everything else on the market. Plus you can play with any minis you want and the rules are perfect for multibasing and mini-dioramas.

>>49552151
AoS ruleset is really garbage trough.

>>49558628
The setting is as well. The minis too.

>>49557607
>All at the sacrifice of immersion. Where when you used to look at a unit that is a fraction of its original size from the beginning, showing that that unit is bravely fighting to the last man, or it becomes easy to see who is gaining the upper hand, now you just see 2 bricks meet each other in the middle, dice are rolled, and either nothing happens, or one disappears; then you lose the little cinematic appeal of it
It's a moot point, because in WHFB or in AoS you're just grinding your units slowly at the centre of the table. KoW is much more fast-paced and lethal.

>>49552110
The game is just fun. Sure you don't get bonuses for having a bigger moustache than your opponent or pretend riding a horse but the game is intense, fast-paced (even when playing horde armies), deep and balanced. The army comp system is simple and allows all kind of lists.

>>49557607
But even then removing models adds nothing. It doesn't feel more cinematic because that group of guys are still standing very rigidly in formation.

Not removing models gives the sense that maybe guys aren't dying in droves, but being injured or worn down and exhausted.

Removing every model that gets killed IS tedious, especially if models have more than one wound. And then you end up with these big empty movemtn trays cluttering the table.

Also this means all those models you spent all that time painting aren't just fancy wound counters that'll get removed turn one. That was always what pissed me off most.

>>49558669
>in AoS you're just grinding your units slowly at the centre of the table
This is a meme. When playing the battleplans or GHB missions, it's more dynamic than that. At least that's been my experience. I just think the reducing unit sizes from damage is one of the things that can't be sacrificed form this type of game, and KoW does it unnecessarily.

Again, KoW is a good game, just not for me. I was searching desperately for an alternative to whfb when GW meliciously killed it, but KoW wasn't it.

>>49558592
Consensus seemed to be that Trident Realms were somewhat underpowered, but then they actually got a few tournament wins. Having not played those armies myself, couldn't tell you more than that sorry.

>>49558592
FoN probably has an edge because they can take the green lady but a player at my lfgs plays trident and it works well.

>>49558760
>This is a meme.
This isn't. Playing the scenarios merely moves the grind towards objectives.

>>49558760
>I just think the reducing unit sizes from damage is one of the things that can't be sacrificed form this type of game

Except it can. It adds nothing to the game. If it was so important than every rank n' file game would do it. But most games with big blocks of guys, like historicals, ditched it because it's pointless and just takes up time.

>>49558628
>>49558653
Don't be too harsh. AoS is a good little game for kids. It's harmless dice rolling and nothing more.

>>49559067
Nigga more kids play 40k than AoS.

Shit reasoning like that is why kids movies are unbearable.

>>49559512
Nigga AoS is 90s american kid cartoon tier in terms of everything.

>>49557607
I completely agree with you that casualty removal gives great feedback. However, as a VC player, once I started to play KOW it became obvious how much time was wasted on removing, adding and rearranging minis. Not to mention that multibasing is a godsend for transport and money.

For me, it's a small price for convenience and it's worth it.

>>49559512
>GWs primary market is kids with pester power
>More kids play 40k
>Fantasy is made more kid friendly
>Anon is surprised
Why exactly?

Anyone played historicals yet?

>>49559859

If that's true where are my rollerblading sharks?

>>49560208
They were too Jawesome for AoS to contain.

>>49560208
>>49560240
Would fit right into the Trident realms, though. They'd make rad Depth Horrors.

>>49555642
> I've seen something and I don't like it
> But did you rub it in your dick?

Man, are you retarded?

>>49560840
He isn't the one rubbing his dick into things thinking its the same as a trying a wargame.

>>49552587
>actually liking individual casualty removal in a massed battle game
I don't even . . .

>>49552110
The rules are solid, balanced, fun and they allow you to play with any fantasy minis you want and multibase the shit out of them. I guess it depends on your local player group but here it's the biggest game by far.

Also it's hobbyist galore.

Is there a most common scale for KoW games? Like, is the expectation that battles will be pretty small, or does it encourage huge armies that need a 4x8 table to contain?

>>49562459
No common scale.

My lgs has had tournaments for 1000 and up to 2500.

We have had 4x4 battles of 16000 total points before.

We also have smaller demo games of only 500 points.

>>49562459
2000 is standard, anything less than 1000 gets a bit wonky, but afaik it can scale up about as far as you like without major issues

>>49562482
Can you give me a sense how big of armies those might be?

>>49552587

There are many people who like it becuase of it's simple rules.

Half the games I DM have skirmish battle in mind and KoW is perfectly lite when we reach the big battles rather than using some ham-fisted mass battle rules.

Are there scans available anywhere? Particularly the new Historical Armies book?

>>49562507
To give you some sense of scale:

A regiment of 20 troops is typically about 200 points, give or take.

Large monsters like Dragons or Abyssal Fiends might be 300-400 points.

>>49562513
No Historical scan yet and no Destiny of Kings, but the rest is here:

https://www.mediafire.com/folder/meedbza42sp4m/Kings_of_War

>>49562968
>https://www.mediafire.com/folder/meedbza42sp4m/Kings_of_War
Awesome, cheers

>>49562459

If you'd like to see how games look, I've made a few batreps.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLnt2uvETjSKY6Aq35O_9khep19dLvebfN

>>49562507
The army deals tend to be around 1500 points without multibasing.

>>49558804
>Consensus seemed to be that Trident Realms were somewhat underpowered, but then they actually got a few tournament wins.

Any idea what the story is there?

Is it that people underestimated the Trident Realms players because it was thought to be underpowered, or did these guys have a better understanding of how to effectively use Trident Realm armies?

>>49552110
So I guess this can be a /kowg/ for my purposes.

I bought Mantic Undead thinking I'd get into WHFB Vampire Counts, but then WHFB was axed. So I've got ~600-1000 pts of Undead depending.

Not sure if I want to play Undead in KoW though. Thinking about buying a different army, though I'm not sure I like anything I've seen. Not models, I like the models, I mean army-tactics. Haven't really seen one that plays in a manner that appeals to me.

What are the more "out there" armies in terms of playing differently?

It debloats WHFB like it should have been and is leaps and bounds better than AoS. No TLoS or random charge distances or any of that bullshit. I personally don't like the models, but as they let you use any figures you want (In tournaments and everything) I just roll with my night goblins.

It is exactly what you are looking for OP.

>>49566269
Undead in KoW are really good and you can be really aggresive with them (as they lack range power but they can make impressive charges with their surges).

Many armies seem to play similar at first glance but its once you play them a lot you realize their difference, an example are Orcs, everyone think Orcs are going to be great fighters making mosh pits in the table, they are not wrong, but their mages gain bonus by having hordes close, this is how Orcs really shine differently than other armies making them different to other mass mosh pit armies.

If you have a something more clear on what you want we could help you better.

>>49566269
The basic undead set up is taking a bunch of shambling chaff and parking necromancers behind them to surge them forward. That said out there strategies include elite fast armies which focus on non-shambling units and shit like soul reavers and werewolves, and ranged armies which take advantage of the catapults and archers.

>>49566180
One of the major gripe with the trident is that nearly to no troop with their special rule in the army.

The biggest problem is the game is just dull. In wanting to be so competetive, it loses any flavour. Just play original WH Fantasy instead. Contrary to popular belief, the rulebooks and models didn't spontaneously combust when the game ended, so it's still easy to play.

>>49568090
Do you have any specific complaints or are you just meming? Having something that is actively supported is nice. There are actual tournaments for it and upcoming things like the global campaign.

>>49568521
That's fine and all, but the game has no soul. You walk away from a game and there's nothing memorable about it, it's just...eh.

>>49568521
I agree with him; all the factions feel sort of samey, and outside of one or two things per faction, they arent all that different. Its not like dwarves or VC or tomb kings, they just dont have any flavor.

KoW is like a steak; but with no seasonings or sides.

>>49569832
>>49568656
>Steak without seasoning or sides
Meanwhile WHFB was a pile of sides with seasoning dumped on it next to a framed photo of a steak.

Sometimes, I just want some fucking steak.

The game is pretty new, they'll be churning out more fluff once they get the Steak just right.

> factions are kind of same-y
You haven't played much then. Undead vs EoD for example look similar at first glance, but have very different major tactical options. I end up fielding my dudes as one or the other.

Of course it's going to look a bit Same-y to a WHFB player when they split single factions into two or three, Eg Orc-Goblin-Ogre, or FoN being a hybrid of Herd+Salamander. Etc.

The faction abilities are usually pretty mechanically significant too. Night-Stalkers alone are way the fuck out there compared to anything in WHFB for core mechanics. Ratkin's got an interesting one too.

Elves vs Dark Elves, and the fact it's got like 4 human factions without much extremes between them I'd agree with though.

>>49570274
>The game is pretty new, they'll be churning out more fluff once they get the Steak just right.
Nah fuck that, I don't want more.
I love being able to flavour it however I like, without nerds shrieking that it contradicts the fluff, or having to change my models to reflect different upgrades, or pouring over books for hours before being able to get a quick game in.

>>49567612
>One of the major gripes with the Trident is that there are nearly no troops with their special rule in the army.

Yeah, that does seem bizarre. Perhaps the need an errata where they have a different special rule.

Or maybe it just makes more sense to run Naiad-heavy Forces of Nature instead of Trident realms if you want to get your fix of fish-people.

>>49569832
>KoW is like a steak; but with no seasonings or sides.
If you say that as a negative thing than you've never had a good steak. Bet you use fucking A1.

>Want to collect Brets
>Apparently Brets were pretty shit near the end of Warham
>"Well, fuck"
>Wasn't really interested in KoW
>Hear about the not-Brets the Mantic kids brewed up
>Order of Redemption reminds me of Dark Souls 3's Abyss Watchers
>One of those martyr groups of "We fucked up, and can't let it happen again"
>Go out of their way to protect anyone who finds themselves against Abyssals
>Basileans at ends with them even though the Brotherhood hold the fucking line for them.

Not-Brets are pretty fucking cool. Please make a cool line of minis for the Brotherhood, and more fluff, Mantic.

>>49570274
I think that it is a good way of putting it. Sure I would love to celebrate the exploits of my Dwarven army, but it simply isn't any fun when I am guaranteed to lose every game as GW doesn't believe in actually playtesting their games. The new character customization options for example add a lot of flavor, along with the unique regiments feature in the campaign book. Both really let you personalize your army ruleswise.

>>49570382
I agree that there is a happy medium. Mantic is putting out a lot more fluff with the upcoming book, though I can understand the hesitation after hearing the 30K horror stories.

>>49574082
I've never understood why GW made 30K a thing.

It's supposed to be a piece of background fluff with many of the details lost to time, not a fully fleshed out setting in its own right.

>>49572607
Yeah, it seems like FoN are the better choice than TR.

>>49576231
>I've never understood why GW made 30K a thing.

It's made GW a disgusting amount of money.

>>49576231
>I've never understood why GW made 30K a thing.
>It's supposed to be a piece of background fluff with many of the details lost to time, not a fully fleshed out setting in its own right.
Wasn't the Horus Heresy invented to explain the contents of the Adeptus Titanicus box, where both sides had identical units?

>>49574082
>Mantic is putting out a lot more fluff with the upcoming book
Any detail on what's getting fluffed out?

>>49555712
>Dwarves in green and silver

I like that color scheme

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>>49581510
Thankyou, my favorite color. Though I have been questioned about it because orcs and goblins are green.

My original warhammer fantasy army was going to be a clan from Karak Hirn which holds main banner is green and gold. Just kept the green and decided my clan color was silver.

Here is a greater earth elemental

>>49556405
Do they still have GW stores with actual tables?

>>49582700
Wow, with the highlights the cartoony aesthetic actually looks really good.

>>49555849
>But the thing that urks me the most are the Mini's
I do hope you know you don't have to use the Mantic minis, and they themselves courage to use whatever the fuck you want.

>Mantic as a whole, I somewhat find dumb; with KoW being the only manufacturer backed WHFB expy on the market
9th age is getting more and more support, from the top of my head from Shieldwolf, Fireforge and Hidden Dreams, plus possibly a few others too.

>>49557607
>All at the sacrifice of immersion.
I don't know man, when a unit at any point at history suffered heavy casualties, it'd just run away, and don't stand there for an eternity because they passed all their Ld tests. Getting cut down to the last man was pretty fucking rare, and for me separate figure removal takes away from immersion.

>>49558760
Get in the middle, roll 4+s, the one who passes most wins. Good game.

>>49559067
I didn't get a Bretonnian army book since 6th ed. GW committed a war crime's equivalent of offense in my eyes with AoS.

>>49570274
>The game is pretty new
Had their first KS 4 years ago for 1st ed, and even before that they had it for 2-3 years or so. I wouldn't say it's exactly new.

>>49573667
They won't make any minis for the "we aren't WHFB lists we swear" armies.

>>49582956
>They won't make any minis for the "we aren't WHFB lists we swear" armies.
They did though. See Empire of Dust. They have stated that they plan on making figures for every single army eventually.

>>49583015
IIRC Ophidia was in the pipeline for a long time, and I'm still a bit pissed about "hey guys, metal skeleton crossbowmen!" thing when they were just fucking metal upgrade parts. Which is true for most of the infantry, and I have no idea who thought metal was a good medium for a massed combat game.

>>49583048
Ophidia is its own faction that will have different figures, though it is likely that the basic skeletons will be shared. I think that they just don't want to invest in molds for new armies, so they just use metal conversion bits in the case of the Abyssal Dwarves and the Empire of Dust. It's lame, but still more affordable than most alternatives. That said I want to see them try to use resin or something instead. Makes balancing the figures much easier.

>>49583101
Restic was much better, but sadly some people bitched too loudly and now we can enjoy full metal zombie trolls for twice the price.

>>49583129
I mean resin, not restic. Restic is objectively bad. Privateer Press and Mantic have both thankfully ditched it. If anything they should at least use PVC like Privateer Press and Reaper if they just want a material to cut costs.

>>49583165
>Restic is objectively bad
For fuck's sake, it's not. If anything, it was much better than metal, and for the hefty sum of the price of a file, you could remove the mouldlines too without any kind of problem. Resin would provide lot more problems, including quickly worn out moulds and not as strong thin parts.

>>49582956
>I wouldn't say it's exactly new.
Given the size of the company, the number of other games they were developing and releasing during that time, and just how many army lines they needed to fully flesh out (and still need to)...

It's pretty new. Between 1st edition and right now is like jumping from the first demo of WHFB to around 5th edition.

>>49583129
>sadly some people bitched too loudly and now we can enjoy full metal for twice the price

This still pisses me off. There was nothing wrong with the Resin, beside the fact you got twice as much for the same price. Oh no.

>>49586326
Yeah, but the models will have shitty detail. Mantic was just listening to the largest complaint about the game and decided to improve the quality of their figures. Actual Resin is pretty good though as far as detail goes though.

>>49587641
I didn't notice that desu. Tho I'm curious about their boardgame material, the Dungeon Saga figs look pretty neat.

>>49589411
The Dungeon Saga figures look pretty nice in my opinion, and the designs they used got refined from "board game figure" level to "war game figure" level when they finally got released for Kings of War itself.

>>49582700
>Here is a greater earth elemental

Awesome job!

The giant crystals look really good in green.

What are some units without minis that you feel are most in need of getting minis?

Stuff that gets a lot of use on the table, but currently uses stand-in miniatures.

>>49595267
I would say that nothing needs figures, but something like a Chroneas would be nice. Profile wise it really isn't like any other demon model.

>>49555712
Mantic's dwarves aren't even half bad.

>>49595433
The main complaint about this is low detail. They have flat helmets, plain shields, and soft detail in some areas, compared to GWs where there is a lot of intricate gaelic designs to make things interesting.

>>49595457
Yeah, they have an industrial look. It's a design choice, fitting for dwarves IMO.

>>49595477
No, I mean like actual soft detail in that the molds simply weren't machined well. That is the problem with some of the gunners. The other problem is probably that not all pieces can be switched out as they opt for things to be molded on, but as you won't have identical twins in a 20 man unit it isn't that bad.

>>49595267
I'd say the other three kinds of Elementals and Greater Elementals.

I really haven't found any good alternative minis for Fire, Air, or Water Elementals.

Also, the Well of Souls and Abyssal Temptress could both use models.

>>49595715
I agree with you on the elementals. While the greater ones are easy to fill in, getting regular elementals is difficult.

I think that Temptresses are an easy unit to sub in though. There are tons of succubi models sold by a variety of companies. The Confrontation ones especially are good choices.

>>49595865
My problem with succubi models from other companies is that they tend to be R-rated or X-rated. And I'd feel like a bit of a "that guy" using them in my army.

Mantic's stuff is more PG-13 and sassy than outright slutty and lustful like traditional succubi.

File: succubus2.jpg (30KB, 491x473px) Image search: [Google]

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>>49595958
I personally don't see how that is true. The succubi Mantic make aren't any more revealing than a Herald of Slaanesh or pic related. It's a similar case with Wyrd and Privateer Press.

>>49596027
That isn't exactly what came up when I searched Hasslefree...

Those were definitely NSFW.

>>49596138
Yeah, but Hasslefree is a tiny company compared to GW, PP, Wyrd, and even Mantic. The majority of succubi figures are entirely fine.

>>49552110
Played a game with my friend.

It's basically WHFB made for people who got buttmad at WHFB and wanted the most boring version of it ever.

It's like WHFB, but where movement and strategy are more important than deathstars and magic.

>>49596226
So the most dullard parts of Fantasy.

Some advice for all the people looking into KoW.

Just find a Historical game you like and use fantasy models.

That's basically what KoW is.

>>49596243
But historical games don't have rules for giant monsters and magic. I'm sorry that you find not having 30 minute turns and a lack of basic balance "boring". KoW is a better game than 8th or AoS ever was.

>>49596257
The magic in KoW is boring as shit and the giant monsters in KoW are just proxies for basically being a one model unit.

KoW was basically Alessio's dream. Take all the fantastical elements of WHFB and boil them down until they're fucking boring and the game becomes shuffleboard.

>all the butthurt AoS fanboys in this thread
Your tears are delicious.

>>49596280
>a monster can't be a monster if he doesn't have thousands of special rules
Spotted the AoS-loving redshirt.

>>49596283
Maybe we're WHFB who don't like the idea of comparing us to the chinese knockoff WHFB that is designed to be boring.

>>49596298
>Statlines represent monsters fine.

I love how you complain about AoS but the giant was one of the most amusing units in WHFB.

What are giants like in KoW?

>>49596257
>and the giant monsters in KoW are just proxies for basically being a one model unit.
It's hilarious because monsters in KoW are actually more impressive than what they were in WHFB.

>>49596280
So monsters aren't monsters other than having entirely different rules and different tactical uses? I will enjoy my game that involves actual strategy rather than the broken bloated corpse that is 8th edition.

>>49596329
Oh? And what tactical uses are they in KoW?

>Infantry will grind it down to dust so use it as a flanker 100% because it's shit.

Know what? Tell us, Tell us what makes KoW so much more strategic?

Because No model removal is instantly proof it's just a simulationist wet dream for people who played the game way too seriously.

>>49596167
True, but they're typically good for single miniatures of a special character such as a Sorceress, a great Viking Hero, or other Completely Unlicensed Look-Alikes of Popular TV & Movie Characters.

>>49596226
>deathstars and magic

The two biggest problems with WFB.

>>49596243
>movement and strategy
>So the most dullard parts of Fantasy

Movement and positioning are key parts of rank and file warfare.

Hell, they're still important to modern warfare. Catch the enemy on his flank and he's ruined.

>>49596316
M7 De 5+ d6+6 attacks Ld 17/19, crushing strength 3, ignore terrain maluses, can't be shaken in close combat.

As every non-individual unit it double its attacks when flanking (or triple when charging from rear), but it's small footprint and higher movement makes it a good flanker.

>>49596348
>Infantry will grind it down to dust
Nope, they won't route as easily as actual regiments
>Useless as flankers
Nope, as they have the individual rule they can pivot and position themselves much better than blocks of troops, which makes them great choices for flanking, moreso if they can fly
>More abstract rules means that the game is simulationist
>Despite not even being nearly as simulationist or as realistic as some historical games
It is clear that you have never actually read or played the game properly and are just trolling. Remember to report and ignore.

>>49596348
>Because No model removal is instantly proof it's just a simulationist wet dream for people who played the game way too seriously.
kek

>>49596379
When you base your entire game around rank and file, the game becomes as boring as KoW is.

You even bitched about Deathstars.

So "A really good expensive unit" is somehow bad

>>49596348
>No model removal

What was the point of removing models?

It just slowed the game down and turned your minis, that you put so much time into building and painting, into overglorified kill markers.

>>49596316
>but the giant was one of the most amusing units in WHFB.
>rolling to see if the giant puts the halfling up his butt is funny
It wasn't fun when I was 12 and it's not funnier after 12 years.

>>49596401
>When you base your entire game around rank and file, the game becomes as boring as KoW is.

Bullshit.

A massive group of knights charging into the middle of your infantry formation is "boring"?

I'd call that "cinematic".

Knights charging to the rescue is a cliche as old as the middle ages. But it's an exciting cliche.

>>49596316
I bet you love when you have to grow your moustache and pretend to be on a horse to get bonuses in combat.

>>49596411
It was the fact that the Giant straight up removed models rather easily, but didn't kill them per se. You know, like a giant.

The Giant's rules worked thematically on what a Giant would do. It stuffing people into it's pants is different to it Smashing shit with a club or just roaring at the enemy so much they coward in fear or run.

It's these "Abstract" rules that gave the Giant flavor.

I mean look at this.

>>49596390
>>49596380

>Monster is a flanker

What a shocker. Because literally every monster was a flanker and they'll never change that because KoW was the most piss poor design in the world.


>>49596469
But KoW makes Infantry the bread and butter, so even thematic lists like cavalry are shit without your big blocks of "Hold shit up"

>>49596478
Funny how I'm not even talking about AoS here chump

At the end of the day, KoW was made for WAAC autists who complain that Warhammer Fantasy wasn't historical enough so they made a game to focus on the most boring elements ever.

>>49596504
>But KoW makes Infantry the bread and butter
Confirmed for having never, ever played it.

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>>49596504
>Admitting that you were wrong about monsters as a clear result of never playing the game or ever reading the rules.
>All monsters are flankers
But that blatantly isn't true. Try flanking with a Chroneas. Oh wait, you haven't even played the game
>All cavalry armies aren't viable
Again, your ignorance is apparent, it is perfectly viable in an Elf list.
>Wanting a game where you aren't guaranteed to lose because of the faction or even unit you chose makes you a WAAC autist
Just stop posting

>>49596552
>>49596528

Then why in every rare KoW thread is it the same boring shit over and over.

KoW was made for netlisting retards who hated the RNG or the "Bloated" rules and demanded the most boring streamlining of rules ever.

Where the only difference between An earth Elemental and Treemen is raw stats.

I mean fuck sake, you people just said in this thread you hated deathstars.

That's proof you don't care about strategy and care purely about shuffleboard and making lines clash into each other with a few odd flanks.

Every KoW game plays the exact same. No army offers unique tricks outside of how much or less they flank your blocks.

>>49596504
>What a shocker. Because literally every monster was a flanker and they'll never change that because KoW was the most piss poor design in the world.
Monsters were flankers 99% of the time in WHFB, save from those who were pure support. Only a handful of things could charge headfront in big blocks.

>But KoW makes Infantry the bread and butter, so even thematic lists like cavalry are shit without your big blocks of "Hold shit up"

Most WHFB list began with a pack of imposed base units who fell in either the "hold shit up" or the "soak up damage for X" category.

>>49596552
>Wanting a game where you aren't guaranteed to lose because of the faction or even unit you chose makes you a WAAC autist

tackling this by making every unit boring as fuck and having no individual weight.

>>49596618
So then at what point at all is KoW any more tactically deeper than WHFB when everything is the same but more boring?

>>49596635
Lethality and non-random charge.

WHFB was 2 turns of movement and 4 turns of slow grind.

>>49596669
And how is KoW any different?

>>49596604
>Only difference between an earth elemental and treeman is raw stats
Other than entirely different special rules, roles, unit sizes, ect.? And which factions are you referring too? What size of earth elemental? Again, I am dubious that you took more than a cursory glance at the rules. Treemen and earth elementals aren't even in the same unit category.
>All factions are exactly the same
How exactly is playing a goblin army where you have to carefully gauge threat distance the same as a nightstalkers brawler army where you have to keep important units close to enemy commanders and force morale tests? Again, you are entirely wrong about everything. Deathstars aren't strategy, they are cheese. KoW is far less of a shuffleboard than 8th edition thanks in part due to solid movement rules, good lethality, and fast gameplay.

>>49596690
Units get removed faster, leaving time for second and sometimes third charges.

>>49596669
>>49596703
>>49596729


So units die faster. That is your big amazing KoW tactics? Because the same is designed for some ADD autist who finds the idea of a social game repulsive.

At the end of the day, Nobody plays KoW but WAAC faggots.

The proof is in your own threads.

>>49596742
>the game isn't a boring slog of rolling and doublechecking special rules with "funny" names
>therefore it's antisocial and WAAC

>>49596754
No, instead it's a boring slog of every game playing the exact same and the outcome of the game is mostly the netlist.

>the historical strawman

Is this the same stupid bastard who thought 8th edition WHFB was better than 6th because magic was over the top and every faction had giant warmachines and monsters even when they did not need them?

KoW is a hobbyist wet dream, there is no "useless" units in the game so you can play the units you prefer and still win, and you can multibase your units in dioramas. Plus the descriptions are rather vague so you can go crazy on conversions.

>>49596742
>So units die faster. That is your big amazing KoW tactics?
Other than actual parity between factions, no TLoS or random charge distances, easy to learn rules, smaller average unit sizes, faster rules, less focus on centerpiece models, and much more, yes. I don't see you refuting a single point made previously, it is clear that you have no idea what you are talking about.

If you hate balance, then just play a game where there aren't points values at all and you have to haggle with your opponent over everything. And to make things more "social", have rules where you have to do improv dance in order to get rerolls. Oh wait, that is an actual thing.

To me KoW is the more social game, as both I an my opponent can walk out of a game knowing that we both had a more or less equal chance of winning, and could play in a sportsmanlike manner.

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>>49596782
>the netlist.
Now I see

>>49596604
What the hell do deathstars have to do with strategy?

Do you think throwing a super unit into the front of the enemy army is a skilled manoeuvre?

>>49596835
So no units should be strong then?

Fantastic, do you work for Mantic?

>>49596742
Why don't you name a 'social' game then?

You are calling anybody who wants balance and good rules WAAC so I think I can guess.

>>49596847
Having strong units doesn't necessarily mean that death stars are going to be viable. Yet another logical fallacy from an 8th edition grognard.

>>49596847
>implying there is no strong units in KoW
no deathstars!=all units are the same

>>49596884
>he needs a special rule to smile
You're pretty sad.

>>49596884
You are acting as if units like goblin blasters can't spontaneously explode. So many word, yet not a single argument.

>>49596904
Meanwhile, you need the lack of rules to smile.

I think that's much more sad.

KoW people are like Rimmer in Red Dwarf when he describes playing Risk.

>>49596919
Right, because Animosity is the fun part of Orcs and Goblins right?

KoW has nothing like Fanatics.It causes your robot brains to melt.

>>49596884
Are you actually trying to justify being unsportsmanlike? Why does it offend you that some people are capable of being mature and friendly?

>>49596884
>Sportsmanship is bad
Where were you when people clinging onto their dead game just stopped pretending to act rationally?

>>49596962
>>49596947

>Muh Sportsmanship

I don't need the game to be balanced for me not to be a cunt to the other player.

If you're somehow labeling "Good balance" as a factor into being a good sport, then my friends.

You're not good sports.

I don't care if you're a prancing elf powerplayer or a Beastman sod, if you're not being a cunt at the table, you're not being a cunt at the table.

This is stupid, most people who play KoW like WHFB too.

What I don't understand is the people who defend 8th as if it was anything other than a mistake on every level. Usually the idiots who bring out the strawman that liking 6th means you should play historicals.

>>49596996
>Sportsmanship does matter
>>49596996
>The only people who legit care about "Muh super sportsmanlike manner" are autistic people.
So you are either contradicting yourself (As if this isn't the first time), or you believe that you are genuinely autistic. Both seem to be equally valid.

>>49596937
But the game does have units with wacky rules, as pointed out earlier. Just nothing as dumb as AoS.

>>49596996
You insulted someone for saying sportsmanship was important, you can try to justify that however you like. It still makes you the cunt here.

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>>49597074
Yet again, I don't see you bring up any arguments (Which haven't been refuted already) why 8th is inherently better than KoW other than "It's boring". Mantic saw that people didn't like WHFB's bloat, its imbalance, its shoddy design. They saw that new blood wouldn't touch the thing because the game mandates huge blocks, huge centerpiece models, all while the ease of learning the rules was taking a nosedive. So they decided to make a game that was actually extensively playtested so everyone could have fun regardless of what faction they chose (And yes, every faction is unique, though I can understand how some of the human factions are samey). It's just more fun to play a game when you know that you aren't going to lose beforehand as your opponent is running some twink elf list rather than due to actual tactical skill. Get over it.

You know, reading over on Dakka about Mantic in general, it seems impressive how much people are turning against them. The whole thing with doing nothing but kickstarters for their products, shitty rules and models (Dungeon Saga, Deadball Extreme). It seems like they're becoming the new GW in all the ways they never should have.

>>49597197
What is wrong with Kickstarter? It lets them get more models in production faster, there is no sensible reason to object to that.

>>49597164
When your enjoyment of the game is based entirely around how balanced the game is to the point that you play the most boring of rulesets ever shows you have this weird video game mentality to Wargames.

>>49597217
Because the models are shit.

People whine about GW but they just realised Genestealer cultists who look rad as fuck while Mantic minis still look like they're designed to all display fetal alchohol syndrome.

>>49597217
I get the impression people are sick and tired of them treating it like pre-order system when as a company, they should be acting like a proper company and actually getting this stuff out themselves. unless of course they've got themselves on a kickstarter treadmill, in which case they've fucked themselves.

>>49597226
So you think its acceptable for different factions to be wildly varying in power level?

Having balance lets people pick armies based on what they find cool and makes excessive tweaking less useful, its the complete opposite of WAAC.

>>49597249
But that is what kickstarter basically is these days, who cares?

Plastic moulds are expensive and Mantic is a small company, kickstarter lets them see there is enough demand before they spend tens or hundreds of thousands on moulds.

>>49597251
Dude, I am a guy who finds Mordeheim is the most fun model game in existence.

You know, the game that's broken if you take to many slings.

Balance is a tertriary factor in wargames if you're in a community not composed of assbandits.

>>49597197
But absolutely none of the new KoW stuff is being put through Kickstarter, and they said themselves that they don't intend on doing more KoW Kickstarters.

I agree with the rest of that stuff though. I personally don't care about their new board games.

>>49597217
- it leaves physical stores on the wayside since big buyers mostly pick kickstarters for cheaper/unique stuff, so fewer stores support Mantic.

- the delays. Always the delays. Fork over the money, you'll get your stuff in a year unless something happens (it always does, the question is not if but how badly). Some people don't mind that, others prefer to just get an announcement and see the product hitting the shelves within 3 months.

- They got bigger and the image of a successul, established company crowdfunding every single new project seems unprofessional.

>>49597267
Possibly. But after the lies and debacle of Dungeon saga and deadball extreme, people are wary. Mantic are becoming famous now for changing kickstarters half way through, pushing out unfished or badly done products. and you can see that with how low the funding is for the new one they've got going. the sci-fi dungeon crawler who's name escapes me.

>>49597276
You have no control whatsoever over your community.

A game needs to reach a certain threshold of balance or otherwise pickup games are pointless/impossible and that hugely limits how many people can play it.

>>49597276
That doesn't mean that it is at all better for a game to have bad balance though. Good balance is ideal, and as was pointed out it actually does help against WAAC faggotry. Don't even think for a second that terrible balance hasn't stopped people from running triple Riptide lists in 40K. Quite the opposite in fact.

>>49597341
Why do these people act like wanting good rules is a WAAC thing anyway?

Good rules mean the game is not decided in the purchasing or listbuilding phases and puts it in deployment and movement where it belongs.

>>49597366
Don't give it that. You know as well as everyone else that in any list building game, the game is won by the better list composition. Especially with dice involved. The whole point of the list is to reduce the randomness of dice rolls to the absolute minimum. And that's where the game is won.

>>49597434
Except that is simply untrue, the more balanced the game is the more tactics and deployment matter.

Why do you feel the need to lie on the internet?

>>49597434
Maybe 8th edition, but KoW is good in that is puts stock into actual tactics rather than whether someone could copy an elf shooting list that they found online.

>>49597474
>>49597475
It's true for any list building game irregardless. There's a reason why the term "mathammer" exists. It can be applied to any game where points are involved. Masturbating over KoW doesn't make it any less true.

>>49597584
But that is blatantly untrue. As was pointed out as the game is more balanced to the point where the edge you gain over other people through list building is minimal, combined with the actual turn by turn rules being better, most of the game is decided by how you play it. Not every game suffers from GW's poor game design.

>>49597616
It's nothing to do with GW's shitty rules. It's a universal rule for any game like that. If you want to play a game where the list doesn't decide it beforehand, play chess or checkers. There are your truly strategic games. perfectly matched up sides where victory is determined purely by the skill of the player. you will not get this supposedly legenday balance through a wargame.

>>49597659
>You are not supposed to have well balanced wargames
Why? Says who? Of course list building is influential, but in KoW it is much less influential has has been established. Don't act as if every game is as poorly balanced as 8th edition. Even GW's other games like the LotR SBG have better inter-faction balance. In the end having a game be more strategic is a good thing. Mantic is smart in that sense, as they actually playtest their games. Despite what you think, not all games with list building are like that.

>>49596937
>Meanwhile, you need the lack of rules to smile.
Yeah, I don't need to have a rule for hallucinogen mushrooms or stuffing shit in my giant's underwear to have fun with my opponents. What a sad guy I am.

>>49597701
I think the fact that things like Mordeheim are seen as more enjoyable shows balance isn't the same as fun.

Games that promote good customisation and personality generally end up being more entertaining than sterile stuff.

See Warmahordes, which is more like MTG than a tabletop.

Also, LotR SBG was unbalanced as fuck with Good almost always able to curbstomp evil, but it was fun because the fate system made it awesome when heroes did heroic things.

>>49597701
Where did i say you are not supposed to have it? i said you can't have it. not completely. it's a dice game at the end of the day and that completely destroys any semblance of balance from the word go. I know about the LoTR Sbg very well. i'm sitting here painting Gandalf on horseback right now. and it does have good interbalance. but it is still easy to write a dominating list. same with KoW and Warmachine and especially that shitty excuse for a game 40K

>>49597726
Are you saying Fanatics and Giants are not fun?

>>49597751
I'm saying they don't need special rules for that.

>>49597775
Oh.

So show how you can make the Giant so damn varied without the rules.

Hell, the fanatic doesn't even have that hard rules either.

>>49597775
so how do you differentiate it from the rest of the units in your army. if it's just stats, then it's just a rectangle with nothing special about it.

>>49597785
>>49597818
>So show how you can make the Giant so damn varied without the rules.
By being not an aspie and roleplaying your games a bit. You know, using imagination.

>>49597736
cf, you don't have to play a clunky massed battle game with mechanics from a skirmish past like individual casualty removal. I've played in a fantasy tournament once despite playing it for years, I basically only play casual club and home games. I am not a WAAC player, I like how neat the rules are, there's no fat, games are fast and enjoyable.

Really, if you don't like it why are you even in the Kings of War thread, sperging about the game and shitting on the playerbase when you could be spending your time elsewhere?

>>49597751
Things can be fun, but still be stupid as hell.

Just look at any Seth Rogen movies.

>>49597834
using your imagination in a competetive only game? wow, contradictory much? so we could just play WHF where it actually has rules that makes it stand out with flavour of it's own?

>>49597836
>Really, if you don't like it why are you even in the Kings of War thread, sperging about the game and shitting on the playerbase when you could be spending your time elsewhere?
Redshirt wants his bonus.

>>49597850
>competetive only game

You are literally the only one calling it that.

Literally.

The only one.

>>49597850
>a competetive only game?
>a game where you are encouraged to go crazy on conversions and fluff
>competetive
what does competetive even mean ?

>>49597855
>H-He doesn't like our boring game
>H-He must be a Redshirt.

See, the logic there is always amusing because KoW threads are always people shitting out boring netlists, complaining about their armies being shit and never releasing new content, and trying to deflect arguments caused by WHFB players.

>>49597850
>in a competitive only game
You are the only one claiming this.

>>49597870
If you don't like the game why do you evidently spend so much time examining the threads ffs.

>>49597870
>See, the logic there is always amusing because KoW threads are always people shitting out boring netlists, complaining about their armies being shit and never releasing new content
Nah that's the AoS thread. You can't really netlist in KoW and no army is shit.

>>49597834
But that just proves KoW is boring as fuck if you need to pretend a giant is doing giant things.

the WHFB giants works fine AND is thematic.

>>49597701
The child is a fanatic, disengage, buddy.

>>49597887
Because it's great fishing for things like >>49597889

Because at the end of the day, KoW threads don't talk about their game because there is fuck all to talk about. They just bitch about AoS and WHFB 8th.

>>49552110
The game is pretty solid, it plays fast, allows all kinds of armies and all kinds of conversions, multibasing galore and using minis from about everywhere. No core tax, no OP hordes bullshit, no gamewrecking magic either. It mostly plays by movement and synergy between your units.

>>49597742
That doesn't mean that it can't try to be more balanced though. WHFB was egregious with how some factions could just stomp all over others. KoW fixes most of that, and is much closer to ideal, and as a result a much better choice than sticking to 8th edition. There is just more focus on actual tactics than there is in WHFB.

>>49598035
Or I can play 6th edition and have fun times with all the Hyper elite units and funny Giants and Fanatics while lacking all the 8e bullshit.

>>49597903
>But that just proves KoW is boring as fuck if you need to pretend a giant is doing giant things.
Lad you are really fucking sad. You actually need special rules to have fun. You actually need the game to hold your hand to tell you when you are supposed to have fun, and if the game don't you don't have fun.

You should actually see a therapist.

>>49597916
You can't claim any superiority when you are swanning into a thread for a game you have zero interest in and even a dislike for, getting kicks by shitting on the playerbase. Do you have any self awareness of your deep and unbridled autism?

>>49598054
Why are you ignoring the fact that people who like KoW tend to like 6th as well?

Most of the large nationwide events have switched from WHFB to KoW here. I guess it's popular.

>>49598108
Funny how I only ever see people SAYING this.

>>49598125
I don't get it. There's a big KoW group at my LFGS, and tournaments usually prefer using supported rulesets, so it kinda make sense I guess.

>>49598125
Maybe you need to spend less time shitposting and actually leave the basement to play some games at your club or store every now and then?

>>49598159
Because it's the same as people saying 9th age is used ALL OVER.

It's not, people usually use modified 8th edition rules.

KoW makes so many units downright unusable from WHFB anyway.

>>49598190
>KoW makes so many units downright unusable from WHFB anyway.
How so ? Which ?

>>49598197
>Araknarok spider
>Mangler Squigs
>Fanatics
>Steam wagon
>Wyvern
>Savage Orcs

>The Entire Beastmen army
>Shaggoths
>Dragon Ogres

>Irondrakes

>Imperial magic carts

>Phoenixes

>Tons of Monsters and most of the Ogres range

Just off the top of my head.

>>49598228
Literally all of these are in in some form other than savage orcs, magic carts, and dragon ogres. It is a perfectly usable game. There are even unit equivalents of some of the Mordheim models like Chaos Cultists and Sisters of Sigmar.

>>49598264
Oh, Do point me to the beastmen and the Shaggoth bro.

Or the Lizardmen dinos.

>>49598228
You can use all of them.

>>49598283
Show me then.

>>49598276
The entire herd army, devourer, and the rhinosaurus, komodons, lekliedons, anklyodons, ect. I don't see why you feel that it is necessary to make baseless claims like that.

>>49598313
>Herd army
>Army list in perma beta limbo designed purely so they can say "We have rules for this I guess"

I guess you're right. But these rules are so damn underdeveloped and it's clear they will never be fully supported.

>>49597903
>if you need to pretend a giant is doing giant things
>playing pretend without the official endorsement of a book isnt real, but with that endorsement it is
Holy shit

>>49598313
Funny, you bring up the Herd but the Herd are pretty much a huge punch in the face to Beastmen players than even AoS.

The herd is the definition of "There was an attempt" and it's actually insulting you bring them up because they're proof Mantic definitely prefers some armies over others.

>>49598276
>the beastmen
The Herd
>Dragon ogres and Shaggoth
Jabberwock and monster cavalry in the Varangurs

>dinos
There is 5 different entries for monsters in the salamander list

>ogres
There's a full army list of ogres, including a giant monster

>imperial tank and magic carts
Rhordia

>>49598363
Uncharted empires has been out for what, 6 or 7 months ?

>>49598363
What the hell are you talking about. They are part of an official book that has been out for nearly a year.

>>49598397
>1v1 just the 7th edition beastmen book with every unit but Great eagles as well as some copy pasted units from forces of nature.

They're a throwaway army bro.

>>49598384
They are a full tournament legal army just like the rest though. If you were referring to TK then I could somewhat understand the "Limbo" part, but The Herd is an actual army that isn't bad on the table. Do you have a single fact to back up your claims, or are you just pulling this out of your ass?

>>49598419
And why does that make them a throwaway army? Wasn't the point that they were supposed to be similar to beastmen? Do WHFB Beastmen sharing giants with Orcs and Chaos warriors make them a throwaway army as well?

>>49598420
They're just the Beastmen army from Fantasy with a few borrowed units with very vague concepts.

You have them developing armies like the Dwarves and the Forces of Nature but The Herd are "Oh we need a beastmen analogue, just throw some rules together"

>>49598435
When the most fleshed out concepts in your army, are indeed the borrowed units of Centaurs, then you have a problem.

>>49598384
>The herd is the definition of "There was an attempt"
>27 different units
>pathfinder for everyone and hunting animals for IC/monster hunting
>pretty high power level and solid build all around

>>49598441
And Dwarves somehow aren't an analogue to WHFB Dwarves? Fluffwise the KoW beastmen are pretty different, and there are units like the stampede which aren't equivalent to anything in WHFB. But then you go off saying that the game needs to be a carbon copy of WHFB by having the exact same units. Get over it, you are wrong.

>>49598458
What makes any of the units more "Fleshed out" than others? How is a Brutox(Cygor equiv) somehow less fleshed out? And before you spout some bullshit about them having models, the rules for The Herd and Forces of Nature existed way before the models for centaurs ever did.

>>49598441
>they are in permanent beta
>they are a slap in the face
sounds a lot different to
>They're just the Beastmen army from Fantasy with a few borrowed units with very vague concepts.
Why do you get your jollies off relentlessly shitposting in the thread of a game you don't even play? Will this keep going until the bump limit or is it tendies time soon?

>>49598462
>>49598477
>>49598462

The unit like the Stampede IS the problem I have. It's literally a unit for

>here take some largeish animals man we don't fucking know.

My issue is The Herd are a transparent lazy army made entirely just to grab a group from WHFB.

They're just vauge statblocks with generic names that exist purely to pull Beastmen players.

>>49598499
>You will never have an army book like Beasts of Chaos Again

Fuck me that hurts.

>>49598499
>here take some largeish animals man we don't fucking know.
How is that even a problem ? First you shitpost about how every unit choice from WHFB isn't covered in KoW (they are) and now you say that there is too much unit choices in KoW.

Get a grip.

On a related note, the local herd player here has 5 grizzlys, a few deers and a shitton of squirrels as his Stampede.

>>49598499
So fucking what? Beastmen players might prefer to play KoW, they might stick with whatever other options they have now. Why care?

>>49597276
>pickup game
>no planning
>nobody can psychically detect how good the opponent's list is
>"just yell swears at them until they play plastic dude manager exactly how you want them to"

>>49598552
>Generic flat rules are FUN!

Nobody in reality plays KoW. The only people who I have met who do have personalities as bland as the rules.

>>49598592
I wouldn't take advice about my personality from someone who shitposting in a thread about a game he hates.

>>49598643
who is*

>>49598643
If I wasn't shitposting in here, what would you even be talking about in this Mighty KoW thread.

>No KoW WiP
>No KoW Lore discussion
>Not even any thematic list building.

The only shred of this was from >>49598552

So Ironically, I am literally the only catalyst of discussion in this thread.

I don't even hate KoW, I just find it bland because it's very basic.

>>49598592
In my experience, it's the people who couldn't move past WHFB that are boring as heck, and need everything spelled out for them.
Whereas the extra level of abstraction in KoW not only gives better gameplay, but enables some great player creativity.

>>49598678
I disagree.

All the abstraction does is make KoW nebulous and boring as a setting.

Most people who play KoW just play it as "WHFB" anyway.

>>49598668
>I don't even hate KoW, I'm just spending my Saturday night/Sunday morning on a relentless, autistic shitposting crusade for fun!

>>49598703
KoW barely even has a setting, and I like it that way. I'm playing in two different campaigns, where we wrote our own fluff, and that's way more enjoyable for me than playing in someone else's setting.

>>49598499
> take some largeish animals man we don't fucking know.
Wow, it's almost as if it gives you customization options

Face it. You were entirely wrong about there not being equivalents for everything. Don't blatantly lie on the internet when you are on record. It is "Downright usable". How is "Centuar Chieftan" more vague sounding than "Chaos Warrior"? The entire game, through the invisible forces of capitalism, is made to attract WHFB players anyways. Your schizophrenic insistence that KoW needs to be more like WHFB then be less like WHFB means nothing.

>>49598678
I think that it puts it very well. The game is superb for actual hobbyists. You can model your dwarves to stand on top of tall, jagged rocks without suddenly being at a tactical disadvantage. You can multibase freely and have actual interesting troop formations. You can choose the best looking models available and use them in an army without being kicked out of tournaments as a result.

>>49598731
This, blank slate settings are great, you can generate a map and have it somewhere important rather than just using the Albion style "lost island" or Bor er Princes conceits.

>>49598731
>>49598767

That's fine really, but I think I'll realtalk here. I'm the shitposter anyway.

I always admired alot of the 8th edition breakways, but it feels like half of them missed the entire point of why people enjoyed Warhammer so much or why it got so engrained in people's minds.

It was a triarch of Models, Gaming and Fluff. Because all of these were big things, people could talk and intermingle with each other, Gaming buffs could still enjoy the models and fluff even if they proxied everything, fluff fans could theme armies and could model shit in the background.

KoW sort of only grabs one of those, And it feels, to me at least, that the other two are thrown to the wayside purely for the rules and I think in the long run, that's also bad for the rules.

Take for example, in the Herd list, it lists guardians as being Owlbears, that made me think that sounds utterly badass, But then I realized that's just a generic cloud suggestion.

Even DnD has some set settings, with maps and so forth and I think Mantic can easily afford a good writer to just sit down and solidify something. They already have some good little threads, I especially like the Forces of Nature.

I'm sorry if my shitposting legit pissed somebody off, but really, What do people talk about in FoW thread other than the rules?

>>49598767
That is the main reason I like 40K's setting so much. Sure there is a lot of detail in places, but I am entirely free to make up my own Space Marine chapter, Imperial Guard Regiment, Dark Eldar Cabal, or Daemonic host without conflicting with the setting, and have them all fight it out on some planet or another. You can do the same in KoW with Dwarven holds, Rhordian Duchies, Orc Tribes, all in some part of the setting. I like that Mantic really likes to encourage people to come up with their own armies, rather than nudging people towards only using named characters like Malifaux and Warmachine.

>>49598803
Modeling and army construction. You can actually use whatever figures you want with a great degree of freedom. I think that it is great as I can use my Confrontation Acheron figures comfortably in an undead army.

In the end OP was specifically talking about the rules
>was just wondering if their rules are any good as another system.
and people felt that it was necessary to derail the thread complain about much more nebulous concepts

>>49598806
Talking of the league, I really need to do the basing on my spears and lansquenets

File: 20161002_031513.jpg (3MB, 3264x2448px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 3264x2448px

>>49598864

>>49598853
The thing is, That's probably why we never have any KoW threads last long.

Same as 9th age and so forth really.

Rules and Models get you somewhere, but Fluff has always been... well... fluff inbetween all the parts.

It's why with WHFB being dead for a year and a bit now we still have WHFB generals, although, they too are dying.

I see KoW as being the biggest successor to WHFB, but it's missing that fluff that binds it all together.

>>49598904
There really isn't a successor to WHFB in that regard. Sure you can go back and enjoy reading about WHFB's, but everyone wants new stuff.

>>49598904
They have already said that they are adding a lot more fluff with the upcoming book, and are making that a priority after new rules are added. Mantic has done a decent job with Warpath's setting, but they haven't until very recently bothered expanding the KoW setting too much. Last time all we had was Mortibris starting shit, and I suppose that will be resolved with the global campaign.

>>49598939
See my biggest fluff question is who the fuck ARE the Herd, they seem like they should be the Forces of Nature anyway.

>>49598964
Did you even read the book? They were the followers of Kyron who ran off and did their own thing after the Fenulian Mirror was broken, and war 'Remade' as beastmen in order to fight against the Abyssals. Think like Sigmarines rather than abominations of Chaos, who are more attuned with the natural world. Some of them work with the Green Lady, but most of them are part of disparate tribes that have their own religion and motivatons. If anything the Forces of Nature are closer to AoS's Sylvaneth, and I don't see why people claim that they are similar otherwise.

>>49598904
/awg/ is a thing.

>>49599009
Sorry, I have literally only used the free rules for the Herds.

See, this is legit interesting, Sort of Good guy beastmen with a Celtic hint.

I thought the Forces of Nature were more "Random groups of elemental dudes united in a makeshift way"

>>49599009
They're sort of like the Wild riders and the Alter kindred in Wood Elves before Wood Elves got shafted in 8E then?

An Orion Analogue with be badass. Orion was always my Favorite Warhammer dude.

>>49598917
I feel alone in that I never really even liked GW's fluff, always thought it was a bit too bipolar. Some really dark stuff, combined with some really silly bullshit. 40k in particular, but WHFB as well.

>>49599071
WHFB was good because it was Noblegrim.

Shits a bad place, but with heroes and courage, maybe it won't be.

>>49599071
It's better than Warmahordes, where everyone is a dick and does nothing but be petty dicks to each other.

>>49599071
It's the intermingling of years of fluff. The early parts of WFB didn't take itself so seriously and had a lot of good heart. Somewhere around 6th edition there seemed to be a change of pace from its light-hearted dark comedy past. I believe this was also around the time the fluff was really starting to become cool, though.

>>49599087
Then the End Time happened, and fuck you you can't win cuz i said so lol

>>49599069
Orion analogue is the Green Lady, wolf companions and everything

>>49598499
So why don't they count then for the purpose of beastmen being usable?

>>49598964
The FoN list is a made to represent more of an assembly of various races (beasts, salamanders, naiads, humans, etc.) working together. The herd is specifically a beastman list.

If nothing else I like the fluff of KoW for proving that elves are always to blame.

>>49603149
>elves are always to blame.

It's a cliche, but it's a cliche that works.

>>49597242
>who look rad as fuck
You mean Cadians with new heads.

>>49597306
>But after the lies and debacle of Dungeon saga and deadball extreme
Glad to see they had a KS since with little to no problems (Deadzone: Infestation, some models made in resin or PVC, some faggots started crying over it), Warpath and The Walking Dead is doing fine, and they only do KS for new games.

>>49598877
That's a nice army, anon.

They need to release the damn twilight kin. They released them then for some reason cut them.

Didnt come out with uncharted empires. Now they release a historical book.

Just release the twilight kin. So many armies have missing units/models.

>>49605580
Thanks dude. I also have some nightstalkers and undead laying around.

>>49605932
I think they're re-working the fluff and the miniatures for them. Trying to make them more than just evil Elves with spikey-bits on their armor.

>>49605480
Yeah, the entire line of the genestealers is JUST Cadians with new heads bro.

Let's forget the other kits they released.

>>49606026
They have been re-working them for how many years now? And still no word on them.

They need to finish them before they start any other new army.

>>49606034
Okay, the Goliath looks nice.

>>49605932
Ruleswise? The Twilight Kin rules are on their website for free. Model wise? They sued to make TK figures but GW and MoM Dark Elves are better anyways.

>>49609266
Model wise.

I want a cheaper option then GW. Yes their DE look great but I also want something else.

>>49609316
Well you can look for Mantic's old TK models online. They are just the plastic Elf models with metal conversion bits. MoM and Gamezone also make cheaper Dark Elves that work out fine.

>>49609316
If it is just models then they hardly count as being "Cut out". Lots of the units in the core armies don't have official models, yet they are considered not being cut. Mantic actually lets you use other companies figures to fill those in, a shocking practice to those who can only fathom games made by GW.

>>49609393
Mom has made Dark elves? Is this man trying to make the entire catalog of Gw cheaper and true scale or what.

>>49609439
They are recent additions. He certainly is doing a good job. It is amazing that some random Spanish guy is doing resin casting better than GW is.

>>49609463
He takes his work seriously, also Spain isn't a bad land for minis or games, not at the level of England (more or less like France at that) but not bad.
He is also cute as fuck. Anything you want to ask him in Facebook, probably will repone even in broken english. Also if you have casting/bubbles problems or something, he used to send you a better casted model but I dunno if internationals count too.

>>49609431
>Lots of the units in the core armies don't have official models

Thats another issue. Mantic needs to finish these damn armies before starting others.

>No fire, water, air elemental, greater or lesser
>No phoenix basaliea
>no steel behemoth for dwarfs

But hey lets just add another couple of armies that we have no models for...

>>49552110
I dunno. It just never caught my, or any one in my town's, eye. I've always meant to try out KoW, but its never really caught my attention, nor have I ever bothered to read into the rules. There's no flash to it, no glamour or...anything. Its just there. Its probably a better system than 9th age or AoS but nobody plays it here, and theres no real incentive, and I have no interest in learning a whole new game. I mean, why bother?

>>49610586
>Elementals
Reaper sells all 4, and the Forgeworld Incarnate Elemental of Fire is amazing.
>Phoenix
Use GW's high elf one.
>Behemoth
Scotia Grendel has been selling Dwarven tanks for a while. Not a bad price either.

>>49610586
>being this cocooned in the GW mindset
They are making flexible army lists for you to use whatever models you want, not just to sell you their models.

>>49611614
>>49611784
Bitch I dont have time to go through a bunch websites in the hopes of finding a model that will fit the army.

>>49613030
There are model recommendation lists made by members of the rules committee on the official forums