How could a resurrection quest work in a hard sci-fi setting?

>>49551175
Only if you're willing to admit that true hard sci-fi is impossible.

THE MATRIX.

the technology requires an absurdly large amount of energy, so go suck a sun up or something

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>>49551175
Lazarus Project, trillions of dollars and a panstellar human nationalist group and years of research to bring back a single person.

The better question is why?

>>49551195
Same way true and original fantasy worlds ain't possible fucktard.

There is a reason for '-fi' at the end.

>>49551175
Elaborate.

>>49551195
Unless you link consciousness to something "scientific" like quantum shit and then go from there. Then all you'd have to do is

>Reports of radio waves from a far off planet tell of an ancient and advanced civilization with technology that may be able to fully resurrect the dead in every sense of the word, but such technology is heavily coveted by both government officials and space pirates who want to live forever.
>The ancient civilization might not be entirely dead either.

>>49551175

You upload a character's conciousness save state to a reconstitutor and pay the ressurection fee in carboncredits.

Takes about two minutes of googlings.

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>>49551175

Read this and it shall become obvious.

>>49551245

Basically a "main character" died and I kinda regret it so I am considering the daughter goes on some kind of quest to get him back.

It's not "true hard sci-fi" (does that even exist?) in that it's a bit like Dune where there's weird psychic stuff but no overt magic.

The only issue is that he kinda fell into a pit of energy, although he did drag himself off to the side of it before "dying."

Just don't really identify with his son as much. The issue is if he comes back, his son is kinda pointless as a character in some ways, he will always be overshadowed. It'd be like if JK Rowling wrote novels about Harry Potter's kids, then halfway through them Harry Potter shows up to take care of everything.

>>49551175

Well, you could look at it narratively. If we're defining it as an Arthurian Grail Quest, then the idea is to go on a quest to recover an artifact or perform a deed that renews and brings life back to a place that is in decline or barren as a result of war or disease or tragedy. Alternatively, it can represent a personal quest to revive a portion of the quester's soul in order to become whole again.

Anyway, if we're thinking hard scifi, you can generally think of substituting machines in for this instead of living people and having to justify how they can resurrect a biological that's thoroughly dead. The end goal is to just turn the machine back on. Could be a highly advanced artificial intelligence needed to guide a species away from extinction, or maybe a vast library of knowledge that contains very vital information about doing something to restore something.

It's resurrection of a kind, but easily missing the gory and messy details of revving a biological being that easily decays unless properly preserved. You could run it through Assassin's Creed style "genetic memory," or maybe some mystical repetition of patterns that produces an entity that mantles the original's place and function, but overall machines seem easier since they can turn off and on again without much fuss.

>>49551323

>It's not "true hard sci-fi" (does that even exist?) in that it's a bit like Dune where there's weird psychic stuff but no overt magic?

So what is the problem?

There is plenty 'hard sci-fi' tech's to ressurect people.

I understand that his body is gone so you can do something like in Dune

They had Gholas.

Or Eclipse Phase style re-sleeving and brain uploading.

Some Statis or Cryonics pods maybe?

>>49551438
You need at least a single cell from a subject to grow a ghola. If the character got disintegrated, then that's probably it for them.

>>49551438

Well the tech can't really do that. His body isn't technically gone but unless someone found him he would rot.

The non-hard-sci-fi stuff is entirely contained to this one family that has weird inherited memories and stuff. Or when they visit ancient places they have flashbacks to the battles that occurred there.

A rebuilt body or consciousness transfer could be explained by ancient tech, i guess I could explain that with the other faction finding him.... except they didn't show up until 20 years after he died. So I either create yet another faction, or make up some bullshit that is inconsistent with previous lore and screams of asspull.

I guess I should just suck it up and deal with his son who really isn't that bad of a character.

But yeah those are good ideas. I kinda wish I hadn't been such a hard-ass about tech. Most of the countries in this world are still using not!AK-47s and are about the tech level of modern-day USA.

>>49551272

It is possible that our universe is a "Peekaboo universe" that vanishes into quantum abstraction when we are not looking at it. The presence of a conscience would then be necessary to collapse the wave-function.

>>49551488

I know. Dying but if he fell into a pit of energy so that kind of implies disintegration.

But he wrote that he kind of drag himself off the side so i wasn't sure.

>>49551488

Would bone marrow work?

>>49551534

>single cell

How hard is this to understand?

There's nothing fancy about being alive. It is a mear bunch of chemical reactions. Nothing in your cells is magically "alive". It's just a self-reproducing biomachine where every component is just a bunch of molecules forming the cogs of a complex mechanism.

>>49551558

I didn't know if it had to be a certain kind.

> Additionally, bone marrow stem cells have been successfully transformed into functional neural cells

According to wikipedia.

So with enough BS I guess it could work.

>>49551516

>Most of the countries in this world are still using not!AK-47s and are about the tech level of modern-day USA.

Yeah, you should type this first.
If its just barely near future hard sci-fi its little more complicated.

>>49551532
I mean there was that one experiment with electrons passing through slits that basically proved that when we weren't looking at it it'd behave normally or that if we were looking at it it did some weird shit. I can't remember it exactly, but it had something to do with quantum physics.

>>49551602

You see the whole Ghola thing spin also had nice plot-hook in Dune.

Faction that produced them plotted for ages just so they can make 'perfect' ghola that included all the memories of the donor.

You can do the opposite, let them clone the guy but he will have no recollection who he is.

This gives you the power to decide how much he can, or cannot remember and do.

>>49551607

Well it's kind of a "split tech level" in the sense of how GURPS puts it. Some places have really good tech, but that stuff is hugely expensive and only works from a huge base of surplus.

But even then, it's mostly weapons tech. There is some good medical tech (there were telomerase-enhancement drugs one character took as an excuse for him to live throughout the entire 70 year storyline with the physique of a 35 year old man) but nothing resurrection-related, and to bring it in now without precedent would be hard to justify.

But I might do it. There are a good number of strange things in this world.

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>>49551532

What defines conscience? Is it simple self-referentialism and the ability to repeat patterns, or does that imply consciousness has some magical quality even in the face of the Occam's Razor that is materialistic understanding of consciousness as outlined by >>49551596?

Does that mean that there is either an inherent intelligence to the universe that allows it to observe itself and exist (then why can wave-functions collapse in the first place without observation?), that the universe didn't exist until two neurons formed and started feeding back into each other (and how would those form in a quantum-abstracted existence), or that quantum abstraction is simply misunderstood by a majority of people, including many writers, who plug it into whatever scifi jargon they need or want for convenience which contributes to its mischaracterization (outlined by >>49551611)?

Anyways, the point I'm trying to make if fuck "quantum." Nobody knows what the fuck it means (outside of actual quantum physicists, who still don't know) and Schrodinger propose the idea as a joke because fuck math, and then everyone took it seriously and it's gotten way out of hand by armchair physicists.

>Have a constant upload of your memories to your clone bays.
>When out of reach in whatever past of space, keep a record and upload them when you get back workin range.
Then one day you wake up in the clone bays. Your last memory, you find out, is months out of date even though your labs just got the death signal.
Now you have to figure out what killed you, and why, lest they do it more permanently this time.

>>49551686

Welcome to how Cubes work in Infinity, or how resurrection works in Eclipse Phase.

Although in Infinity Cubes physical devices and you have to remove them from the dead person to plug into a new body. Well, and operatives who can't risk getting caught and having their Cubes hacked for their secrets, so they record their personalities before every mission in case they are killed.

>>49551668

> You can do the opposite, let them clone the guy but he will have no recollection who he is.

I kinda like that idea, so long as he is still "the same" and eventually regains his old personality after therapy.

I liked the Ghola in Dune. I'm just curious how much it's considered stupid.

I mean dune is a lot of my inspiration, I like multi-generational stories. But it's like continuing Dune after Paul died.... his two kids can't really carry the series if they aren't as good of characters, and it really feels like it's Paul's story. In my case it's the story of a family, rather than one person. But it feels empty without that character who was almost like a go-to. Is there an action scene? He's in it. The story was about him for a long time. Perhaps it's just grief for a character I regret killing off, because bringing him back results in as many problem as having him there did.

>>49551611

Its called double-slit experiment.

It means that particles are both a point in space and a wave at the same time.

There is a lot's of interpretations of that experiment, from 'many worlds' to Copenhagen one that states that only when we measure a particle it kind of 'collapses' and befeore that we do not have definite properties of that particle.

aka measurement (observation) changes the behaviour of particles

also watch this if you have 12m
cool shit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tafGL02EUOA

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>>49551611

It is the quintessential experiment of quantum physics. You send some photons across two narrow slits with a flat screen at the other side. The photons form what is call an wavelike interference pattern. This patter appears even if you send one photon at a time.

However, if you try to figure out from which split came the photon, you collapse the pattern and the photons just form two simple bands of light similar to the ones of simple particles. However, the pattern still appears, not on the screen but on the sensor.

This experiment has been done with photons, electrons, and even molecules under special conditions. It's like the photons/*electron/mollecules exist only as a wave of probabilistic possibilities right until it collapses finding a final solution.

An even weirder experiment was done called the Quantum Eraser. This involves quantum entanglement. Quantum entanglement involves the creation of twin particles. These particles are linked under an unknown mechanism. Einsten call it "spooky action at a distance". When you measure it the two particles in the same directions, the two will Always go in oposite directions (which one is random). This has been tested even on extreme distances. The weirder part is that this communication is instantaneous, it's like locality doesn't exist. It's like there's a faster than light communication between particles.

Quantum Eraser gets even weirder. It uses quantum elementalment to prevent the collapse of the wave function. The crazy part is that the experiment seems to indicate that the particles seems to know that their twin WILL be detected. It's like information is travelling back in time to our present.

>>49551671
>>49551829

Jeez, slow down with the autism.

>>49551175
>we can build a proxy body for him but he would lack his experience
>go looking for his last cerebral back up
>turns out the [enemy] has retrieved it before you and is trying to hack it to access his knowledge of super secret intelligence of the space union's defence system or whatever tech advancement mumbo jumbo is going on

>>49551175

There's also time travel shenanigans, plucking the guy out of the past, for example. Combine it with brain scan mind-upload tech and you don't have to physically grab the guy, just read his brain state and look at his DNA, grow him a new body and imprint his mind onto it, no actual time travel needed, just some kind of time window device.

If you have a Maxwell's demon type device that can reverse entropy, you don't even need that, just a corpse. That's downright magitech, though, since such a device could repair literally anything.

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>>49551927

>magitech, though, since such a device could repair literally anything

>repair

can it make my dick bigger?

>>49551175
Nano machines

>>49551611
>proved that when we weren't looking at it it'd behave normally or that if we were looking at it it did some weird shit

That's not how the double slit experiment worked. That sounds like the double slit experiment described by Deepak Chopra on weed.

>>49551671
Our best evidence points to consciousness being not some magical quantum voodoo, but a byproduct of the part of our brain that evolved to tell stories about why other people did the things they did. It's valuable for predicting what other people are going to do, but has some blind spots and error. It appears this same mechanism is at work telling us stories about why we ourselves did what we did, and we call it consciousness. It makes the same mistakes describing the self that it does describing other people.
The thing is, consciousness is not really in the driver's seat most of the time, our non-conscious minds make our decisions, and then our consciousness tells us fairy tales about why we made those decisions.

>>49551175
>take brain
>what's left of it at least
>use pink jizz nanomachines made from processing the rest of his charred meatsuit to make a regenerator vat
>use cybernetics to build the parts of the body your peptobismol clonifier cannot replace
>give the resulting fuckstick plot-grade amnesia and a chance to re-assign a couple minor traits pending GM approval in order to represent the months of therapy, hypnotic conditioning and peer overview of the parts of their life they don't remember automatically
>reduce endurance or whatever physical characteristic/attribute/etc by [small but noticeable increment as per system standards] each time this process gets used
>make sure this costs a ton of money. There should always be someone willing to make a loan for the PCs, maybe even having them be repaid in favors. Feel free to make this person unsavory if your players are into being indebted to the mafia or whatever.
>tell the players there's a 60% chance this process will result in a braindead, fully wiped individual that suffocates moments after being revived, so don't see it as a reliable method of dealing with character death

>>49552068

I really like that idea, actually. Especially because there's ancient tech stuff hidden around that would be unreplicatable. Plus his daughter would have to make a choice: 100% chance of bringing back her dad, or maybe a chance of resurrection technology if scientists can figure it out, but then destory the bots in the process. I think this will be a good quest. It just feels like a bit of a cop-out, but perhaps I can find a place for his son to act in his father's shadow without being *over*shadowed. It worked for the father and grandfather.

It just feels like a copout to bring him back at all, idk.

>>49551671

You can't pack hitlers that closely - their aryan field requires a few angstroms of liebersraum otherwise they become energetic and decay into a positive and negative pair of mutually annihilating skinheads.

>>49551785
I'm pretty sure double-slit is a pretty good argument against many worlds, since many worlds suggests that one of two possibilities is just chosen at random for this universe and the other possibility is handed off to another universe which is identical in every way except for that one change. If this were the case then individual, unobserved particles shouldn't present the properties of a wave.

>>49551927
Maxwell's demon just kept all cold particles in one chamber and all hot particles in another, defying entropy which would cause them to mix wildly and never be ordered.

It never turned back time, there's no reason something like it could repair anything, even if you expand it to additional concepts all it does is keep things is segregate things that you shouldn't be able to take apart, like separating a cup of tea into its component molecules.

>>49552419
Leave 'im dead. Pulling a reason for him to come back out of your ass really takes a lot of the danger out of everything. Even if you give the resurrection methods serious restrictions or drawbacks, I'd you to just find a way to bail everybody out if serious shit ever went down.

>>49551323
>it's a bit like Dune where there's weird psychic stuff but no overt magic.

Then it's not hard sf. That's the proper term, BTW. It's a small difference, but science fiction geeks will RRRREEEEEEEE about it. Sci-fi is reserved for the typical pop fiction that has lasers and spaceships, while sf is reserved for "proper" science fiction, which means sf that uses its fantastic elements to try and make some sort of point.

But hard sf in my experience means "shit that's scientifically possible", and the biggest fans will flip out for having slightly fast sublight drives, let alone FTL travel and psychic powers. And then there's cunts like Stross, who are so adamant that manned space travel in itself is impossible that they will never fucking stop talking about it.

It's safer to just call it science fiction, I guess.

But if you have psychic stuff, can't you just pull a Spock? Just stating the obvious here, but psychic stuff in science fiction is always this "anything goes" kind of territory.

>>49551243
What if there's no body?

>>49551175
Every neuron of the brain and every pattern in which they fire is painstakingly recorded into what is basically a blueprint that can be used to make an exact copy (or exact enough copy to get by) of someone important, like a diplomat or a leader or something. The blueprint is recorded on some storage medium, and that item is the macguffin for the plot.

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>everyone is robots living in the fucking boonies
>Your buddy gets fucking rekt
>you take his hard drive on a road trip to the factory to get a new body
>Can't stop most places, as they are robat country.