MTG Legacy Thread: Vintage Lite Edition.

Common Legacy - Decks You Should Prepare to Face
>Miracles
>Delver variants (Grixis, Izzet, BUG, RUG)
>ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)
>Death and Taxes
>Eldrazi Stompy
>Shardless BUG
>Lands

Uncommon Legacy - Decks You Should Know About
>LED Dredge
>Reanimator
>Infect
>Stoneblade
>Burn
>TES (The Epic Storm)
>Elves
>Painter
>Maverick
>4-Color Loam
>Nic Fit
>Sneak n Show

Rare Legacy - Decks You May See On Occasion
>Enchantress
>MUD
>Goblins
>Merfolk
>High Tide
>Aluren
>Food Chain
>12 Post
>Belcher
>Pox Control
>Dragon Stompy
>Tezzerator
>Sneak n Breach
>Stax (White or Black)

Mythic Legacy - Decks You'll See Once a Year
>Doomsday Fetchland Tendrils (DDFT)
>Cheerios
>Nourshing Lich
>Sea Stompy
>Spanish Inquisition
>Shitty Wannabe Defunct Sneak n ShowMonoblue Omnitell
>Parfait
>The Cure (Kavu Predator + False Cure)

People keep forgetting the spoilers so let me just post the "actual tier list".

Common Legacy - Decks You Should Prepare to Face
>Miracles
>Delver variants (Grixis, Izzet, BUG, RUG)
>ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)
>Death and Taxes
>Eldrazi Stompy
>Shardless BUG
>Lands

Uncommon Legacy - Decks You Should Know About
>LED Dredge
>Reanimator
>Infect
>Stoneblade
>Burn
>TES (The Epic Storm)
>Elves
>Painter
>Maverick
>4-Color Loam
>Nic Fit
>Sneak n Show

Rare Legacy - Decks You May See On Occasion
>Enchantress
>MUD
>Goblins
>Merfolk
>High Tide
>Aluren
>Food Chain
>12 Post
>Belcher
>Pox Control
>Dragon Stompy
>Tezzerator
>Sneak n Breach
>Stax (White or Black)
>Deadguy Ale

Mythic Legacy - Decks You'll See Once a Year
>Doomsday Fetchland Tendrils (DDFT)
>Cheerios
>Nourshing Lich
>Sea Stompy
>Spanish Inquisition
>Monoblue Omnitell
>Parfait
>The Cure (Kavu Predator + False Cure)

>>49519434
>ritual
>ritual
>contamination into bitterblossom
Well, uh... LED, crack for 3 red, Dredge 2 Golgari Grave-Troll? Not going to lie, this does slow my deck by about two or three turns depending on how many times I mulligan. I'd be forced to go into the Draw-Discard-Dredge plan.

>t1 contamination and bitterblossom
>blowing your hand t1 for no clock or significant disruption vs a black based combo deck
I'm pretty sure I can get out of this one, especially if I have a Top.

>>49519434
>LED, LED, crack one for RRR dredge cast from grave faithless and dredge 6+ and pray for another faithless or similar

>t1 Sol Land, SSG, Seething Song, Blood Moon, Chalice on 1
Suddenly I really, really want to play Blood Moon Stompy.

>>49519434
>>Playing?

Monoblack Pox

>>Testing?

Blue-White Parfait

>>BDIF/Favorite deck in format?

Not counting my own, I'd say I like how Reanimator and Nic Fit play. Cephalid Breakfast will always have a special place in my heart, too.

>>Your opponent opens up T1 ritual, ritual, Contamination, Bitterblossom. What do you do?
Play swamp, dark ritual for Hymn to Tourach to empty the rest of his hand, play Rack, watch him sweat out that clock while I try to get rid of his bitterblossom fliers. Alternatively: pray I draw a Ratchet Bomb to get rid of Blossom.

>>49519434

>Your opponent opens up T1 ritual, ritual, Contamination, Bitterblossom. What do you do?
if I can't counter the bitterblossom, I might concede to keep them from knowing what I'm on.

>>49519434
>pay to win general

>>49521421

Sorry friend, you seemed lost! You seem to want to be posting here >>49518447

Happy posting!

>>49521421
Go home Alice.

>>49519434
>>Playing?
Nothing new
>>Testing?
Nothing new
>>BDIF/Favorite deck in format?
Probably Miracles, FDIF is still Manaless, or maybe Goblins
>>Your opponent opens up T1 ritual, ritual, Contamination, Bitterblossom. What do you do?
Draw for turn, discard to handsize, ignore the contamination?

Finally, a ban update I can get behind.

"Section 3.9 (Shuffling): This change has to do with "pile shuffling." Pile shuffling alone is not a sufficiently random form of shuffling. Update states that a player may only pile shuffle once each time a deck is randomized. The one pile shuffle is allowed in order to count the number of cards in the deck."

>>49522197
Are there people out there that really pile shuffled more than once?

>>49522393
I've played against a person who does 6 pile shuffles. Every time they mulligan.

Some people do, and now you can call them out on wasting time.

>>49522915
Well that's good I guess. I don't think I've ever seen anyone do more than 1 or 2. But i'm all for things that speed up tournament processes. And this is coming from a guy who plays a deck with 4 Tops.

>>49522197
Oh fuck yeah that's sweet

Why doesn't every deck that can play Manamorphose play it?

It is basically a free draw, along with Gitaxian Probe (which, I know, is better because you get to see their hand), it would allow you basically thin your deck enough to draw into more gas.

>>49523195
Because it's a bad card. Gitaxian probe is slightly defensible, Manamorphose is really bad. Even in storm decks.

>>49523195

Because Death and Taxes exists and punishes non-essential "free spells"

>>49523195
You draw an opening hand. It contains Street Wraith, Manamorphose, Gitaxian probe, Gitaxian Probe, Volcanic Island, Polluted Delta, Deathrite Shaman. Do you keep it?

>>49523231
>>49523246
I posted this in legacy instead of modern.

Fuck me.

>>49523273
>T1 Deathrite
I mean, it seems keepable to me.

>>49523273
Aw dude of course you have like 3 free cards there

>>49523504
I like you.

>>49523273
I ask myself why I'm playing a bad deck. I mulligan down to 0, then concede after my opponent plays a land.

>>49524389
But what if your opponent never plays a land?

>>49523195

This is actually an interesting question because it cuts to why card advantage isn't necessarily the most important concern in deckbuilding.

I played All Spells for quite a while, and that's a deck without many permanent (read: sticks to the board) mana sources. Most people who played the deck at the time it was sort of a thing ran quads of Manamorphose for color-fixing, because you don't have that many initial black sources and you need to convert Spirit Guides into black mana.

I cut Manamorphose back to a singleton. There were a whole lot of hands in which I wouldn't have two initial sources to cast it, there were a whole lot of hands that had multiple Manamorphoses and no fourth mana to combo, and sometimes I'd have some hideous number of "free" spells, enough mana, a Pact of Negation/Cabal Therapy to protect my combo, and no business creatures.

Those are all bad spots to be. And if you're pitching Spirit Guides to Manamorphose without a certain win sealed up, you run a much greater risk of shooting yourself in the foot than you do of winning.

For decks that don't run Manamorphose at all, the question you should ask is, "what cards in this deck would I cut from the mainboard for Manamorphose?"

And the argument that Probe is either bad or mediocre is false. Running Cabal Therapy without it is a poor decision in Grix and Storm, and try cutting it from a Storm deck and watch what happens.

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>>49524793
>play my T1 Shaman
>my opponent is the show and tell plus 56 islands guy

Anybody think there's a snowball's chance any of the vehicles will see play? My gut says no, but one wonders.

>>49525253
Git Probe is good in a certain type of deck. Storm getting a free peak is nice, and Delver likes getting to aim its therapies and fuel delve at no cost.

That being said, I've trimmed Git Ptobes in Grixis Delver, mostly in Decay builds with therapies postboard. I think Git Probe is a crutch for a lot of people. There are plenty of decks that want Therapy and not Probe, and some decks that just want probe. It depends entirely on what your deck is looking to do

>>49525598
Going to have to also go with no. They are neat, but do not have the right kind of board impact to be playable. I am okay with being wrong though.

>>49525598
Thev legendary 6 drop that bolts could be good in vintage, but probably not legacy

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Shit welder (UR artifact "reanimation" deck based around Goblin welder and simlar effects. Includes shitloads of looting and trying to get fast big artifact thing to stomp opponent) returns after getting upgrades to deck and getting few proppa games under my belt.
So few stories when dumbass me played against "established" legacy decks.

MUD was a fun matchup because welder naturally was disruptive force turning many lightning greaves into less scary artifacts my opponent decided to sac for forgemaster. Also a beautiful blunder for saccing everything to get turn 2 Blightsteel. And then I welded blighsteel into greaves because he forgot the effect.
What was less fun was god damn chalice on 1. More that I kept forgetting that the thing was on table first throwing a faithless looting into it and then flashbacking it like a genious dumbass I am.

ANT was not actually that scary. Games relied more that I had Izzet charms/dispels to hit ad nausea or getting a fast platinum emperion/platinum angel on field. Actually it was kinda booring.

Dredge was nazi and blitzkrieged my arse like it was poland.

Then there were some wildass brews like unexpected results deck and UW control thing that had New Kozilek as the only wincondition.

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>>49519434
Should I buy a playset of Land Tax now, or wait until the potential Masterpiece reprint?

>>49525842
Original border > all
New border vs newer border is up for debate though

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>>49525883
I completely agree with you on that
However, think of the potential new artwork for Land Tax. Seeing the Masterpiece Sol Ring got me intrigued on the idea

>>49525702

Cool, yo. Given that you're running a reanimator build, do you play Entomb or just stick to mono-red?

>>49526092
> not wanting your opponent to stare the taxman in the eye

>>49526226
"reanimator" as in Welder, Trash for Treasure and Daretti technically "reanimate" by trading artifacts on field to artifact on grave. Perhaps I should have refrained from using word reanimation.

I run blue for Careful Study, Dispel, part cost for izzet charm and cephalid colosseum.
Also side effect of running blue and being poorfag everybody expects the force but there are no forces.

>>49520870
I don't think good blood moon stompy decks play seething song, anon.

>>49526274
kek, well said

>>49526348

Well yes, I understood the concept, I was just thinking that entomb would help you put any card, not just creatures but artifacts as well, in the graveyard which would make it easier to target with the Welder. Plus it got reprinted so it's sub-$10 in most places.

>>49526471
ah sry I have long day behind me so pretty tired therefore misreadings and misunderstandings said reading happen.

I have not actually thought entomb at all. time for list tinkering if i can 1. reasonably fit black for it 2. fit the entomb in it.

>>49526398
That doesn' mean that a certain group don't

>>49526698
>certain group
He means Johnnys

Like me

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Would it be a smart move to splash U in Parfait for Brainstorm and JTMS?

Fuckin null rod I have lost so many I shouldn't have by people topdecking their presumably 1-of null rod

>>49528325
You might be able to get away with Brainstorm and Daze but Jace will be hard because of the UU cost.

If you want more deck manipulation just play a couple Tops.

>>49528401
I only take issue with you saying "topdecking." the card selection in legacy is good enough that it's not unreasonable to find 1 or 2 of bullets.

>>49528484
Well in the past 3 games it's happened i've duressed/therapied/probed the turn before and there was no null rod. Then they draw for the turn and slam null rod.

>>49528474
Are you sure? If I have Lotus Petals and play a couple of Islands I should be good, no?
If not, I will probably go mono white.

>>49528325
JTMS seems like it's too much mana for what you are gunning for and too color heavy, but brainstorm would work. Top would be best though.

How hard is it to learn how to play burn? I've got most of a legacy burn deck lying around from just playing over the years and am tempted to give it a spin

>>49528858
Burn is an exercise in mulligans, sequencing and playing around soft counters. It's not hard but it isn't braindead

>>49528616
With Land Tax active it's easy to grab two islands for Jace, but there are times when you won't have Tax. To cast him off your drawn mana sources you'll want about 16 blue sources. 4 Mox Diamonds, 2 Islands, and 4 Tundras is only ten. If you play 4 Flooded Strands on top of that you'll only be running 10 basics.

The deck just doesn't want Jace, though. It's not set up to protect him and there are better, more efficient deck manipulators and win cons available.

You go blue for Brainstorm, Energy Field, Back to Basics, and SB counterspells, not Jace.

>>49528616

If you want to play White/Blue with Jace, you should probably just play miracles. It's designed to protect Jace with Counterbalance and Terminus.

>>49528858
Burn is Optimization: the Deck. If you want to get stupid good with a deck to the point where it flows inside, outside, and backward, Burn is the deck for you. It's always going to be my favorite deck. Also this >>49528910. I could rant and rave about the deck for hours.

>>49529989
Give us a rant, if you please.

Just built The Cure.
It's fun as fuck, and absolutely crushes some common decks.
I mean, it's pretty fragile otherwise, but it offers both aggro and pseudo-combo lines of play and is funny as anything.
Turns out a lot of decks currently can't really handle a 14/14 2 mana trampler. And free 2/2's are nothing to sneeze at.

>>49521639
>LITERALLY the first post of the thread is showing that there are only 4-5 good deck possibilities and the rest is shit
>mandatory expensive cards, like force of will in every goddamn blue deck unless you're planning to lose
>Not pay to win

>>49530005
This'll be a little more toward Modern, but...

So I picked up Burn about 2 years ago as a way to get into Modern after toying with Standard for a few months. I had no clue what I was doing for a while, but eventually it got to the point where I took down 3 FNMs back-to-back with a 4-0 (8-0-0) record, to the point where someone literally built Soul Sisters just to counter my deck. But instead of making a different deck I just kept playing. I didn't go 4-0 as often anymore but you bet your ass I kept winning.

For me Burn became the definition of what happens when you really stick with a deck and learn it well. Unfortunately there's some bad stigma with it. Everyone knows a shitty Burn player, or a smelly one, or an arrogant one, and the same can be said of Jund and especially of Affinity. Every once in a while you'll get a stellar guy who just loves playing the deck because it suits who he is, it suits his personality and his playstyle and that's what Burn became for me. I tried taking out UW control decks but they stopped being interesting. I missed my basic Mountains and my foil Eidolons and my premium deck series Bolts. When you get hooked on a deck like that, it really does change you in a way.

It taught me how to become a better Magic player. As I ported it over to Legacy and the deck became monored, it honestly was like the clouds cleared away. It was like I had finally found the deck I had always wanted to play almost from day one. My playstyle became quick, aggressive, and optimal. I wanted to slam out every shred of value possible, I didn't want to grind it out with Rhino and Goyf. Give me Goblin Guides. Give me Bolts. Give me Fireblast.

Every time I sit down with Burn I know the difference between winning and losing is literally 1 life. I've been in countless situations where 1 life has made the difference. Burn is a deck that, for me, gets a little deeper each time I play it. That, to me, makes a deck beautiful beyond words.

>>49519434
Why has no one commented on how terrifying and ballin' this alter is?

>>49530250
What is it? Pithing Needle? Because that's not what a pithing needle is.

>>49519434
>Your opponent opens up T1 ritual, ritual, Contamination, Bitterblossom. What do you do?

Swamp, Mox diamond, Hymn to Tourach, proceed to lock him out of the game with LD and Discard and laugh at him for giving me an easy wincon.

>>49530076
I hear you brotha, I've been playing it on cockatrice a bit, its fun as hell.

Praise Kavu

I've been playing a black blue Omni-Tell variant with much success.. thoughtseize and lim-duls vault with a single emrakul and single grislebrand don't see why people dislike Omni-Tell.

>>49530973
Because they do mono blue usually, I like the idea of the U/B

Any good decks under $200?

>>49531394
Depends on how much of a baller you want to be

>>49531394
Manaless dredge

Any DEATHBLADE players in the house? Thinking about branching out with a more fair deck, and DEATHBLADE seems to tickle my fancy. However, I never see the deck anymore, is it that badly positioned right now? The greedy manabase probably doesn't help either.

Also, is it true you have to write DEATHBLADE in all caps to show what a baller you are, always and everywhere?

>>49531566
Deathblade was never very well positioned, a lot of people just played it. The manabase is total shit. Deathrite in a deck with Islands and Tundra's is terrible.

That said, it's a deck that contains a lot of powerful cards. I would debate that this does not make it a powerful deck, but I do believe that a stoneblade variant could be decent.

>>49531418
Very much so.

>>49531664
Build something that makes sense in the metagame. That takes a while, but it's doable

>>49531612
Shame, I love/hate DRS and wanted to use it in a more midrange/control shell.

Deadguy Ale is also an option, but I'm loathe to abandon blue...

>>49531880
I mean it sounds like you want to run Shardless BUG or Nic Fit or Jund.

The problem with the decks that just add Deathrite is how many of them really lean on Deathrite fixing their mana. You might be able to build it with a better manabase, but the classic lists are terrible.

>>49532043
Thanks for the advice. I'm used to playing Dredge, Reanimator and Sneak Show, which means that in general, I have a hard time evaluating how strong/good/consistent a 'fair' deck is. I tend to look at metas in term of raw amount of hate for my combo plan.

Nic Fit is another deck I was considering, but again, no idea how it fits in the current metagame. I generally feel like Shardless Bug does the value plan better.

>>49532256
Nic fit is a toolbox deck so it''s highly customizable. You need a good read on your meta, but ifor you have that it will fit into your meta very nicely. Bit of a rough combo match up though. If I was ever going to build a fair deck, it would be Nic fit. I love the veteran explorer/therapy synergy and keep trying to jam it in doomsday.

>>49531566
I think you should play the Stoneforge variant. Stoneblade is much better: has a solid mana base, long-time power, and can go toe to toe with Miracles.

>>49533242
Deathblade IS a Stoneforge variant though, utilising the raw power of DRS, hence the name. But I get what you're saying.

>>49533238
The option to highly customize is what draws me to the deck, but to be fair, I felt this was also the case for Deathblade. I could go for a Bant Nic Fit list though, using Perilous Research for that sweet, juicy value.

>>49523195
The largest problem with those free cantrips is that they aren't free, and I'm talking about the life cost of casting Probe or cycling Streetwraith either. Sure, play four each of Probe, Streetwraith and Manamorphose and you're essentially playing a 48 card deck, but they conceal information from you. What happens when you draw your seven and see three lands, two Probes and two Street Wraiths for example? Do you keep it? What if you cycle into more lands?

What's the best game one strategy for ANT v Miracles? I played a couple games against it for the first time last weekend. The first match, they land a counter balance and I'm locked out of the game. Match 2, I pith his top early on and hold two Abrupt Decay for anything else. Eventually I built a decent threshold of spells to feel comfortable powering through his hand. I had a shakey moment when he karakased his clique and flashed it back in to bottom the tendrils in hand but I drew infernal and won anyway.
Over all, I admired the oppressive feel of the miracles from the other side of the table. My opponent seemed pretty adept too.

What's the difference between Sneak 'n' Show and Sneak 'n' Breach? They both look ridiculous and fun

>>49533480
>What if you cycle into more lands?
Cut lands. Obviously running too many.

>>49533553
I imagine the later uses through the breach in place of sneak attack. Otherwise the difference is likely null.

>>49533553
The former plays Show and Tell (UR), while the latter plays Through the Breach (mostly monored).

>>49533568
>>49533572
To clarify, both play Sneak Attack, but they're pretty different decks. Sneak and Breach is also sometimes called Big Red, and plays other threats besides Griselbrand and Emrakul, like Inferno Titan.

>>49533308
Right, what I meant was my list runs only Stoneforge and not DRS. Currently my creature package is

4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 True-Name Nemesis
2 Snapcaster Mage

It's a pretty spell-heavy list, now that I'm looking at it. I might try testing with Baleful Strix or Dark Confidant someday when I'm not trying to build literally every other deck imaginable.

>>49533558
Unless you're running exactly three lands in that scenario there's always the risk of cycling into more of them.

Moreover, what about the starting hand where you have two spells, three Probes and two Streetwraiths? Can you keep that hand? What if you don't cycle into any more lands at all, or a land that doesn't produce the color you need?

>>49520501
>>49519453
So Jund is beyond Mythic now?
News to me

>>49533691
Talking of news to me, what's this Parfait deck people are talking about?

I swear, you stop playing a format for a few months and things change like crazy.

>>49533762
Parfait is an older deck though, existing at its core since Buehler's Extended white weenie deck. It was later ported to type 1 (probably by Raphael Caron) and has existed since at least 2000.

It's essentialy mono-white control, and consequently, not a very popular deck. You always have some nutters playing it though.

>>49533553
SNS is UR combo/control, breach/Big Red is a monored fast mana prison/combo/stompy deck with Blood Moons, Trinispheres, Chalices etc that has the option of hardcasting its fatties after turns 2-3, something the former deck can't do (theoretically with 2 lotus petals you can cast Griselbrand but it never comes up).

>>49533949
Yeah, I just looked it up. Looks fun, but monowhite control which relies on having less lands than it's opponent in legacy? Nah, count me out.

Anybody else play 12 post?
If not, do you know what it feels to hardcast a newlamog or emrakul?
It feels amazing.

>>49534460
Is it a functional deck? Can I see your list?

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>>49534460
How does it feel, shitting all over Miracles' parade?

>>49533615
Dont be silly. Why would I run a land that doesn't tap for the color I need? Anyway, three lands sounds perfect. All my business spells cost three anyway!

>>49534460

I play 12post but I built it out of shit I already had so I don't have any Emrakuls yet. I did have a funny match where I decked a person out with Sands of Delirium though.

12post please go and stay go

>>49535118
kek

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>>49523273
> Play all these ““““free”””” cards
> Start game at 13 life
> Opponent burns you out in two turns
Why not play your actual cards and start at 20?

>>49535621
For consistency. In a combo deck, for example, being able to effectively be able a 50 card deck is nice. However, as has already been explained in this thread, whatever consistency you gain by playing that many "free" cantrips is overshadowed by the information they withhold from you when deciding whether to mulligan or not.

>>49535621
>burn
To back to modern, kid.

>>49535954
>he hasn't seen mono-red burn level legacy tournaments

So, I was drifting around my campus CCG club looking for EDH games when I heard someone mention looking for a Legacy game and naturally I dropped what I was doing to go check it out. When I got there he showed me this Naya lifegain deck with a single copy of Retaliator Griffin and a single copy of Felidar Sovereign as it's wincons. He said to come back next week with any deck proxied and we'll play, what do I build to show him how bad his shitbrew is Belcher, Oops or TES?

>>49536064
Belcher for sure. The look on his face will be priceless.

>>49536064
Oops. It's a little more ridiculous to watch.

>>49536064
2nd for belcher. Or DDFT

>>49536064
3rding belcher. I feel like it's a little more consistent than oops. pls report back.

>>49536064
I've never liked Oops or Belcher. I've won more games off them mulling to 5 and keeping shit than I'd like to admit. Try ANT, TES or High TIde. They're extremely consistent.

>>49536126
>>49536153
>>49536190
I'll probably hang myself if I try to play DDFT, losing to myself would be embarrassing and losing to this lifegain deck because of it would be worse.
>>49536204
Belcher seems to be in the lead.
>>49536221
I like this, High Tide has always looked like a fun deck with a special style.

>>49536310
for extra shots and giggles, you could go solidarity, and wait until he's about to kill you to combo off in response. you could probably masturbate for a long-ass time that way since it doesn't sound like he'll be presenting any sort of a reasonable clock or disruption.

>>49536362
>solidarity
Not him, but I've never heard of this combo.

>>49536385
I think it's High Tide but with Reset instead of Spiral

>>49536385
yeah, it's a high tide combo that plays reset and turnabout and only instant speed spells in the main deck. I have no idea how it got the name.

>>49536415
>>49536426
Nice, looks cool.

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>>49536064
Throwing a vote in for ANT. Shitbrews get the drills.

>>49536426
As far as I remember, one of the guy's who used to do really well with it ran one Solidarity in his sideboard for luck.

High Tide/Solidarity is really a deck I could see myself building in paper, though I think the most expensive part would probably be getting pimp Islands.

>>49537058
I tried playing without pimped lands once. It was awful. I lost every game and the endless ridicule for using RTR basics was unbearable.

>>49537058
mismatched eight edition. easy.

>>49537229
Not everyone is a white-border sadist

>>49537254
The "core set" that Fallen Empires is attached to is white bordered Revised edition. So it is indisputably the choice.

>>49537254
You should get mismatched white bordered islands and use crayola markers to make them all different colors

>>49536064

Any of the decks suggested would be fantastic. If you want to make him sit through the longest combo, go ANT, All Spells, or (if you're really cruel) High Tide.

ANT's probably the best of the bunch.

>>49536646

>Shitbrews get the drills.

Seconded.

>>49537058
No no, the hard part is getting a playset of Candelabra of Tawnos.

>>49525683

Welder will rise again!

>>49525650

Yeah, you're right that Probe often isn't necessary without maindeck Therapy (or with a lot of other forms of discard in your main). I feel like Therapy is good enough to keep in the maindeck, though, especially if you're running Pyromancer.

The main strength of Probe in Storm is that you can up your storm count for free without losing cards. You can also flash it back for free after Past in Flames for extra digging power.

>>49538806
I did something like this with my tron lands

>>49538904
the cool thing about solidarity is it doesn't play candelabra. 11 or so guru islands will still be a significant cost, though.

>>49533595
I ran stoneblade for a while, then deathblade.
In both decks, I was always happy to see a baleful strix. As it turns out, cheap, deathtouch flyers that cantrip are really good.

Anyone tried collective brutality in storm lists?

Give me three reasons not to maindeck Cabal Therapy in Grixis Delver.

>>49542841
You don't maindeck the best one mana discard spell in the game in a deck that has its color?

>>49542853
I do, I'm more confused as to why some people don't. I've been told not to, but I find it inconceivable that I wouldn't

>>49542841
Another question, why not sideboard Abrupt Decay?

>>49542834
I don't play black storm decks, but it seems like a good way to deal with annoying bears. I'm definitely jamming one in reanimator.

>>49543515
I think I'm going to test -1 Duress +1 Collective Brutality. Just need to get a copy. Having another maindeck way to kill a random bear seems good. just remains to be seen if the extra mana for the duress mode makes it bad.

>>49537058
1. Cabal Therapy is good against combo decks, which aren't well represented currently.

2. It isn't great against Eldrazi, the mirror or Miracles, three of the biggest players in the metagame.

3. You can run cards like Abrupt Decay, which are good against your bad matchups over it.

>>49539026
I would like to point out that probe is also usually the best card to dig into doomsday piles

>>49543617
Don't forget that it's not quite a duress, because it only hits instants and sorceries.

What are the vital staple cards in each color? I feel like brewing and don't want to miss anything.

>>49545267

(In descending order of use)

White: StP, Karakas, Stoneforge Mystic

Blue: Brainstorm, FoW, Ponder, Daze

Black: Dismember, Cabal Therapy, Thoughtseize,

Red: Lightning Bolt, Young Pyromancer, Simian Spirit Guide

Green: Deathrite Shaman, Sylvan Library, Tarmogoyf

>>49545454
artifacts: Chalice, Trinisphere, Jitte

>>49545481
Anus mana: Thought-Knot, Smasher, Wail

>>49545454
>>49545481
>>49545496
Thanks, I appreciate the help. Now I just need an idea.

>>49545609
cephalid tribal

>>49545609
5C aggro

>>49545675
6C aggro?

>>49545609
Birthing Pod Eldrazi

>>49545675
>>49545684
That's really tempting.

>>49545673
>cephalid stompy

>>49545684
Is Anus a color?

>>49545609
Blood Artist Combo

>>49545704
Not really, no, but unless you're gonna call it something like 5 color top of the pops feat. thought-nazi and friends then I don't have a better name

>>49545826
That name is great.

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>>49536646
ANT or Grinding Station is probably the way to go if you don't want to think too much and still have consistency

>>49519434
>Your opponent opens up T1 ritual, ritual, Contamination, Bitterblossom. What do you do?
Land, Lotus Petal, Blistercoil Weird, Paradise Mantle, equip with Force Of Will backup.
Hope you're feeling lucky, punk.

>>49546627
I like you

Is going to 4 Hurkyl's in TES excessive? My locals have a hard on for stompy/mudpost/eldrazi and without cabal you can't really go off through with LEDs and/or ETW.

>>49531418
>how baller are you?
>My wincon is a 4/3 with a downside
>so?
>I play demons from Avacyn Restored
>you are balling out of control

A B S O L U T E M A D M A N

>>49544463
Top is often better for that purpose. Doesn't cost life and you'd like to have one out already anyway. Then you can probe aggressively in the early turns. Probe is better turn 1-2 if mana is tight but life is plentiful.

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>>49544223
>Cabal Therapy on TKS, next turn they play Reality Smasher
>Cabal Therapy on Reality Smasher, next turn they play TKS
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

>>49546749
without*

>>49546749
Consider Meltdown or Shattering Spree.

>>49530112
Sure thing bud. Just borrow Miracles or Doomsday from your buddy and try play against a dedicated budget Burn player. You might want to bring extra pants in case you shit yourself.

>>49547158
Might try Spree, getting to 4 mana to melt trinisphere might be too tall of an order. Thanks.

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>>49530190
I started playing Legacy two months ago, and I've grown a love for Burn as well. What do you think about my list? I'm testing the new Chandra, and I'm not so impressed. I had Browbeat in her place before, a card I really liked. The Sudden Shock and Firecrafts mainboard are amazing against Miracles and Delver, while being playable in other match ups. Vexing Devil is almost always a 4 damage Lava Spike, and I feel he really deserves the spot.
I play solely on Xmage, if that matters.

>>49547290
>>49546749
Wishable artifact hate is probably too expensive for tes. I think hurkylls is actually fine. If I were in a MUD heavy environment i'd play 3 or even 4 in DDFT. maybe 3 and a meltdown because DDFT has more mana so melting a trinisphere is doable.

>>49546749
>>49547382
Could go with pulverize for the all in combo turn destruction?

>>49547408
Could work but I think most TES and DDFT lists play just 2 mountains and keeping both alive vs wasteland decks seems like a tall order.

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Shardless Bant with Tamiyo.

>>49547511
No. Shame on you.

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>>49547536
Shardless Bant with Stoneforge Mystic?

>>49547319
I have a pretty "traditional" view of Burn: that is, things that are safe and proven to work, so I automatically dislike Vexing Devil (based on experience in Modern). However, since Lightning Bolt is less played in Legacy due to the prevalence of blue-based decks, even in a meta with Swords to Plowshares I think he has potential. But I don't know. Admittedly I'm not as much of a playtester as I should be. I like tweaking my list to the point where I like it, then playing a ton of games until the deck is like a third arm.

I think Chandra costs too much mana to be viable in non-Standard formats. People hailed her as the Red JtMS but I don't think she's going to live up to the hype in Eternal. I also see you're not running Goblin Guides; budget reasons, I'm hoping. How has Sudden Shock been going for you? I keep my Firecrafts in the side and mainboard Sulfuric Vortex instead.

Here's my current list for reference. People have told me to cut down on fetches; maybe I'll do that later.

4 Eidolon
4 Goblin Guide
4 Monastery Swiftspear
2 Grim Lavamancer

4 Fireblast
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Price of Progress
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt

2 Sulfuric Vortex

9 Mountain
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Scalding Tarn
1 Barbarian Ring

SB:
4 Searing Blaze
3 Exquisite Firecraft
3 Smash to Smithereens
2 Rest in Peace
1 Plateau
1 Mindbreak Trap
1 Vexing Shusher

>>49547629
Proceed.

>Playing vs this strange BUG Cascade deck with Shardless, Dream Stalker and Cavern Harpy
>G1 assemble Thopter Sword t3 and win
>G2 t2 Reshape for Trinisphere and ruin his freespells.dec

Trinisphere is quickly becoming one of my favorite cards, even without being a lockout card with mana denial.

>>49547930
That strange bug deck was probably Aluren. I got rused by it recently because I dressed and saw a hand with shardless, strix, deathrite, and lands and thought it was a cappy shardless bug hand. So I took my time setting up since he had little pressure, then he top decked an Aluren and killed me. So good thing you had that trinisphere.

>>49547930
>dream stalker and cavern harpy
yeah, I'm pretty sure that's aluren

I finally found a deck I enjoy.

playing some enchantress and absolutely loving every second of it, even if i lose

>>49548567
>>49548667
Yeah, I guess he just never hit an Aluren. There's something really satisfying about playing a format like Legacy full of free spells and coming into the game with the intention of forcing your opponents to play a fair game.

>>49549065
are you balling out of control?

>>49549284
I most certainly am.

>>49549125
Truly there is no better feeling.

>>49549125
>forcing your opponent to play fair
Hush, I'm trying to Dread Return Iona on turn 1.

>>49547930
always loved trinisphere. T1 trinisphere is a guaranteed concession

>>49549533
Having Trinisphere and Chalice on 1 at the same time is an incredible feeling because people forget about Chalice and cast 3-mana 1-drops into it.

>>49549125
Why force them to play fair when you can just stop them from playing with coutrertop?

DDFT Guy and other Doomsday pilots.
How do you build a double doomsday pile and what are the requirements before casting Doomsday (No passing the turn involved)

This is the last set of piles I'm still having trouble building. I can't build a set of five that lets me finish the chain. Usually it comes down to between having enough mana or having the last draw needed to draw into Wish in the second loop.

>>49549991
I went through my "UW control" phase pretty early in my playing career, it never really interested me again.

>on XMage
>opponent at -3 because of persecutor
>he tells me there's a bug
>he can't crack his fetch
>I tell him he can't pay life he doesn't have
>"sure I can"
>tell him to read the rules
>he says no u and quits the match

Thanks for reading my blog.

Anybody here doing Turbo Depths?

>>49550007
Basic multi doomsday pile looks like this:
Ideas unbound
Led
Doomsday
Led
Burning Wish

You need top in play, 1UU plus (BBB)n and 2^n life, where n is the number of times you want to cast doomsday. So double doomsday requires 4 life and uubbb1. Triple doomsday needs uubbbbbb1, etc.

>>49550881
>>49550007
SDT is basically required because you need a draw spell after cracking LEDs. Double doomsday piles are very mana hungry and mostly obsoleted by maniac piles. But they're good to know, especially if you don't play maniac.

Is there a recent W Stax list? All I can find is old lists or weird shitbrews.

>>49550881
I fucked this up. My formula was correct and my examples were wrong. Double doomsday requires uubbbbbb1 and 4 life. Triple doomsday requires uubbbbbbbbb1 and 8 life. All that b is usually obtained with extra LEDs. A field/hand like swamp, SDT on board, doomsday, LEDx2, ritual, can kill with a double doomsday pile and a storm count of 14 or so.

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>>49550744
Speaking of Depths decks, has anyone played around with pic related? It seems like it's just waiting to be broken.

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XMage doesn't seem to have CN2, do you think Archdemon of Paliano might work better than Abyssal Persecutor? I'm getting really sick of not drawing removal to kill my own creature, and the difference between 5 and 6 power isn't a huge deal, it's still a 4-turn clock.

>>49551831
>do you think Archdemon of Paliano might work better than Abyssal Persecutor?
No, Persecutor is much better than Paliano.

Post deck list?

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>>49551831
Why not Grinning Demon?

One of the best things about the Persecutor is flying + trample.

Hell, if you can finagle some sort of reliable life loss, Rakdos would work just as well as anything.

>>49551917
4x Ancient Tomb
1x Phyrexian Tower
2x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
14x Swamp
4x Chrome Mox
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Trinisphere

4x Abyssal Persecutor
4x Desecration Demon
4x Hymn to Tourach
2x Diabolic Edict
3x Liliana of the Veil
4x Mardu Strike Leader
2x Phyrexian Obliterator
4x Victim of the Night

SB
1x Batterskull
1x Null Rod
1x Pithing Needle
2x Chains of Mephistopheles
2x Drown in Sorrow
3x Engineered Plague
4x Leyline of the Void
1x Toxic Deluge

>>49551974
Archdemon also flies, and Rakdos is red.

>>49551831
Stat wise it seems the best. Granted, Persecutor is still a four turn clock even through two Delvers because of trample. Have you tried Desecration Demon? I don't know your list but it seems like a strong 4 drop in a creature-light format.

>>49551917
>>49551974
>>49552025
Tappedout because I already typed it up and it's nicer that way.
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/28-09-16-demon-stompy/

>>49552020
No love for Nether Void or Wasteland?

>>49552025
Desecration Demon seems good, but specifically matches up poorly against Pyromancer or Mentor

>>49552145
Yeah, I just pulled this list of the web and I'm testing it out, not really sure what I'd cut for Void. If I'm doing Wastelands, I'd probably just cut the Negators, getting the black for them is already tricky.

>>49552020
Throw some fetches in your deck and you could even run Inverter of Truth

>>49552207
I can't say I'm not tempted.

>>49552082
made that post before the list was posted, I'm on slow internet right now.

>>49552156
Fair enough, could be more of a sideboard card against combo or something. The question is "is it worth it?"

>>49552330
Desecration Demon isn't really up for discussion. It always pulls its weight, as either a one-sided smokestack or a disgustingly efficient beater. It's been a 4-of in Demon Stompy ever since it was printed.

>>49552394
Oh I'm dumb for some reason I thought you weren't running it. Ignore me.

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>tfw love Parfait but get shrekked every game

>>49552591
Parfait is very unforgiving. You have to git gud.

What's your list? Are you the UW budget guy?

>>49547900
I have no idea what I am doing
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/28-09-16-shardless-bant/
>>49550654
I've lost count of the number of times I thought Xmage was bugged, and it was merely enforcing the rules.
>>49547833
Thank you for sharing your perspective on Burn. Personally I'm not running monks or guides because I don't want to clutter my board with creatures that either enables my opponents removal, or stands stupidly looking at my opponent's bigger creatures. As I said earlier, Sudden Shock has been fantastic against decks that want to play creatures and interaction; delver, infect, D&T, and also miracles shudder when they read Split Second. My opponents rarely gain life, and that's usually when I'd want to side in Vortex, so I'd much rather mainboard the Firecrafts, as they make blue decks sad. There are even players who will throw Force at my Firecraft before even checking whether I have spell mastery.

>>49552640
y-yes
teach me senpai on how to git gud

>two Trinispheres, a Chalice on 1, and a Nether Void with a Strike Leader out
Is this what heaven feels like?

>>49551139
See the mtgsource link above.
I looked around and found these threads:
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?29068-Braids-Stax
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?31009-BR-Stax

>>49552900
Thanks man.

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>>49552912
I've been playtesting both black and white stax, and I kinda like black stax more, but that might just be personal preference.
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/budget-stax-2/

>>49545609
Non budget boo berry

Anyone have advice for anti-D&T tech?

>>49553049
Dread of night

Is it just me, or do the XMage servers disconnect more recently?

>>49553131
Sweet, thanks. Any idea on what to cut?

>>49553190
Chalice isn't great against dnt so I'd cut that post board. If you really want to go deep you could run something like contagion

>>49553049
Burn player here. Xmage server a shit. Fuck.

>>49552716
please don't run daze with shardless agent

>>49553190
They've been unstable every since the last patch, in my experience. I've written them feedback on this. It doesn't hurt if you do as well.

We'll settle this another day, demonologist!

>>49553240
After the server disconnected the client froze 30 seconds later, so I'm just going to stop playing for the night. I'll be playing around the same time tomorrow though. It's almost midnight here, so I probably won't be posting for much longer either.

>>49553219
I meant to cut from the SB to fit the Dreads.

>>49553049
MASSACRE
A
S
S
A
C
R
E

>>49553335
Oh yeah, that's the stuff. What do I cut from the sideboard? I'd like to add 4 massacres and at least 2 other anti-D&T options, considering how awful the matchup is.

I'm going to clock out for the night, see you all later.

>>49553386
GLOOM

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>>49552768
I play the red splash (pic is an old iteration of my list), and what I've found is that you have three kinds of games.

A. You "go off" with Tax/Rack early in the game and win through sheer card advantage. It's hard to lose when you're drawing 3-9 cards each turn because no matter what your opponent is doing you can chain Orim's Chant and then kill them with RIP/Helm.

B. You play the right lock piece early in the game and then it becomes a grind fest where your opponent tries to kill you before you draw into Tax/Rack or a wincon.

C. You lose

Whether or not you go for a lock piece or Tax/Rack first depends on your hand, how your deck is built, and what your opponent is playing. Generally you need lock pieces against combo and fast decks, while against other grindy decks you want to set up Tax/Rack.

A lot of times you will be sitting with an active Tax and not really doing anything else. You want to keep Tax active for as long as possible - even without Scrack it thins your deck and sets up Belcher as an easy win. However, if your opponent is holding back his lands (he should be) at some point you will have to start making land drops yourself and turn off Tax. This will be worth it if you can slam a Wrath, Humility, Helm, or other major spell and take over the game that way. Even with Tax off you'll have a full grip of plains to ship back when/if you draw Scroll Rack.

With Scroll Rack and no Tax, things become interesting as well. Scrack is a very powerful deck manipulator, but it can screw you over if you don't have a way to shuffle your deck. If you have a Scrack by itself and are trying to dig for an answer the best thing to do is wait as long as possible so you have as many cards in hand as possible to swap with Rack. This will increase your chances of hitting either the card you need or a Tax or E Tutor to get a shuffle and fresh draws.

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>>49553659
Alright, thanks a lot for the input and your list
However, I got a couple of questions about your list if you don't mind me asking.

1. Why three WoG? Is it because of your meta, or is it actually that good in your parfait that you run three of it? (I would have swapped out two WoG for Armageddon and Moat)

2. Why StP and not PtE? I guess this is meta dependant as well, but PtE got more synergy with Land Tax

3. Why no Solitary Confinement or Luminarch Ascension?

Thanks in advance, lad

>>49552716
Need to swap out the daze for some force. Daze feels bad with shardless.

>>49553854
>1. Why three WoG? Is it because of your meta, or is it actually that good in your parfait that you run three of it? (I would have swapped out two WoG for Armageddon and Moat)
Even with Humility and Ghostly Prison there will usually come a point where you need to wipe the board. Wrath can't be tutored for so you run 3. I would probably cut down on StPs or O Rings before I cut them.

In the mono white version you don't really want Wrath, though. You rely on Humility and Prison more because you have Kjeldoran Outpost to make your own creatures. In that build it can also be good to run Cursed Scroll.

>2. Why StP and not PtE? I guess this is meta dependant as well, but PtE got more synergy with Land Tax
The life gain is irrelevant with the win cons we run. Path helps some decks play around Blood Moon and the ramp is still a tempo gain for the enemy even if it lets us play more lands under Tax.

>3. Why no Solitary Confinement or Luminarch Ascension?
The Ivory Tower in that list has at times been Zuran Orb #2, Solitary, and MD Leyline (with 3 more in the board). I'm testing Solitary again but the card is very clunky. Ascension is just bad. We want our wincons to win the game immediately before the enemy breaks through all the lock pieces.

>>49554009
Wow, I see. Thanks again for the information.
I appreciate it a lot

Reminder that Cockatrice is a better XMage.

>>49554663
Reminder that drunk magic is better than sober magic.

>>49554663
>implying

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>>49554750

>>49554663
we've had this argument before. I prefer rules enforcement and I assume the popularity of xmage means others do as well.

>>49554700
>tfw never been drunk
Set up a 4 player EDH game, get me drunk and then show me a bullshit combo I've never seen. I need some excitement in my life.

>>49554663
no

>>49555889
being drunk sucks. it feels miserable and makes you insufferable to be around.

Honest question. Who else uses proxy duals to save $1,000+ per deck?

>>49556010
I use real duals but it's only because I can afford it and don't have the nerve to try to use fakes at sanctioned events. I don't care if other people use them, I just want to play legacy.

>>49556010
I had to buy proxy LEDs. Someday I'll own the real thing.

/dredge/guy is a fellow Burn enthusiast, I see.

A few questions to any Burn players regarding the sideboard:
prefered grave hate? is it even worth running?
thoughts on Pyroblast?

>>49555983
>being insufferable to be around
There is a solution to this, makes sure everyone else is also drunk

>>49556175
What matchups is pyroblast even good in?

>>49555983
>being drunk sucks and it makes you insufferable
Really depends on the person

>>49556175
I've played Burn way longer than Dredge but I play Dredge more in Legacy. So I'm actually a Burn player who plays Dredge.

I use Plateau and RiP because no one expects that from Burn. Most of the time you can race, but against big nasty decks like Reanimator sometimes I'll bring it in. I don't know. It depends on how I feel, honestly. I took out Pyroblast because I would rather not play counterspells in a Burn deck.

ANT Man here.

Agonizing about whether to cut singleton Dark Petition, and with what to replace it.

Not doing a fifteenth land or Sensei's Divine Topdecks. Too slow, and I flood on 14 lands more than I stall out.

Another Storm spell might work, but it usually makes for a terrible topdeck.

Running 2x Past in Flames, 1x Petition and Ad Nauseam, and an otherwise pretty standard list.

>>49557151
As a DDFT player, I think ANT should run at least 1 SDT. It's the bee's fucking pajamas.

play death wish

>>49557151
grim tutor

>>49557182

I've got one in the sideboard, but it suffers from the ">0-costed permanents" problem; it's a rough topdeck, and it has no immediate impact on my hand or the board. Useful against Miracles, but I've got a lot of D&Ts and Poisons and decks like that in my meta. Not saying I won't test it again at some point, but I haven't liked it as a maindeck card.

Death Wish is actually one of my favorite cards from its era.

>>49557202

Thought about that one, too. Good for a number of utility roles, but a lot worse than anything else in Past in Flames-based kills and it really hurts to hit it off of Ad Nauseam.

Things I've tried:
—SDT (not as good as I'd hoped it would be, but maybe still a possibility)
—Chrome Mox (might revisit this one. Was underwhelming and made less of a difference with Ad Nauseam than I'd hoped, though)
—Personal Tutor (janky)
—Chain of Vapor (great in the 'board; not great in the maindeck)
—Discard No. 7 (diminishing returns with this. Six feels more stable)

>>49557459
I like Chain of vapor too, but again this is coming from having used in in DDFT. It's maindeck anti hate and a storm engine. Obviously you can't use it quite the same way DDFT can, but I think it has potential.

>>49557808

Yeah, it's stellar with mana rocks, it's got great utility against hatebears, and it's a hilarious answer to Marit Lage and Batterskull's germ token.

>>49557459
I play TES, but I've used a more ANT-like build.

SDT feels great if games go just a little bit longer, and it's easy to side out against fast decks. It won me a G2 against Sneak'n'Show. If nothing else, it's a colourless cantrip the turn you go off, usable for LED.

Now Chrome Mox is sometimes bad as you need 2 cards, but going off with Ad Naus without mana left is much more reliable with it.

I enjoyed playing 1 Burning Wish main as well, as it gives a lot of reach and security.

Thoughts on combustible gearhulk in big red?

>>49547017
In my goldfishing I've found that top adding an extra card to your deck is painful when you're short on mana.

>>49556175
If you don't run GY hate, you deserve to lose against dredge and reanimator.
I run Grafdigger's Cage. Reanimator decks can go off on turn one, and I'd rather not splash white for Plateau and be bitten by my own Price of Progress.
Pyroblast is good against force of will. As for Daze, you'll just have to play around it. I run 3x Firecraft mainboard and don't feel so bad against blue that I need Pyro on top. See
>>49547319

>>49556010
If I ever decide to play legacy in paper, I will buy all the cards over 10$ from China. I don't mind buying things like Eternal Master products to show WotC that we want reprints, but for cards that they will never reprint (read: reserved list), I don't see the point of throwing money at investors. Fuck investors, I will never give them money.

>>49557151
Have you tried out Togores list and learnt to cantrip properly from doing so? I'd really like to see the entirety of your 75 as people have different opinions of "stock-"/"standard" ANT.

>>49560147
Same. Investors can blow me.

How is Legacy on MTGO? It's obviously much cheaper, but is there actual __fun__ to be had? Or is it all just a big mess of bugs and people with shitty manners? Are there even any people who play online?

>>49561621
I've played primarily online since up til recently I haven't had a local scene. I have only encountered one minor bug ever, I almost never have connection issues, and most people have fine manners although you get the occasional ragequitter. You get used to the interface which is shit to look at but functional. There are almost always people in the tournament practice room. And it usually only takes a few minutes to get a game there or in a league.

I don't think I've ever tried Ben and Jerry's, which is the best flavor? I'm sick and think I deserve ice cream ~~

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>>49561621
>much cheaper
says you

>>49562002
What kind of sickness do you have? Ice cream might actually be the worst possible thing for you.

>>49562058
>Lich is only $180 online
It's literally cheaper than Burn and I still don't want to buy it. Tfw no current income.

>>49562080
Had some of the common cold, managed to ruin my throat coughing. Now my throat hurts like shit but I'm not really sick anymore, just out of commission ~~
I'm also at the store currently so I'd like a recommendation soon

>>49562180
As long as you're not draining ice cream should be okay. Dairy is bad for you when you have a lot of mucus in your throat because it only makes the mucus thicker. If this is the case, find something spicy instead. All else, ice cream should be good for soothing a throat.

Original strawberry,

>>49562206
Their sortiment here in Sweden is kind of low, they do have the strawberry cheesecake if that's the one though. I'll get some instant noodles with the ice cream and spice the shit out of them

>>49562206
Unless strawberry cheesecake's the one I'll probably take a chance ~~

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>>49562080
>rishadan ports are $255 each online

Do people fall for Chinaman Proxies? Are they good yet?

>>49562716
They're good. Really good.

>>49562731
Does LotV still have weird spacing problems?

>>49562767
Not that i know of.

>>49562703
>black lotus is barely over 110 TIX
It's cheaper at this point to play Vintage MUD online than Legacy D&T. Unban Tolarian Academy pls, it's such a good card.

>>49562716
I had a friend take a look at mine; he's one of those thrift/jewelry/quick-buck kind of guys, his whole family is. The thing about proxies is that they're usually printed in all one flat printing process. Actual cards are printed in multiple sessions with multiple layers of ink and WotC uses what's called multi-layer dot matrix for their printing.

Here's a jeweler's loupe comparison of the best fakes on the market to the real deal. http://imgur.com/a/kZQNY

Are they good? Fuck yeah they are, I bought some myself and they look great. Will they fool a trained eye? Not if they know what to look for, and hopefully you'll use this so you don't get scammed in the future. Play it safe and don't suddenly have the Power Nine overnight.

>>49563346
Thanks for the link. That was some good info. How's the gloss? Do they feel really? Does light bounce off the same way? What about shine through?

>>49563346
That link is a 404 for me.

>>49563423
>How's the gloss?
They don't have a glossy feel like a transparency. They feel (for the most part) like any other card, though some official cards from certain sets for me feel more flimsy than other cards. The ink doesn't rub off if you rub your thumb on it, which is really good too.

>Do they feel really (authentic/good)?
"Yes". The cardstock I'd say is about 95% similar to the actual card, but as I mentioned before, some cards from certain sets literally feel different to me. M14 cards, for example, don't have the stiffness of a BFZ card. They almost feel wet or damp in a way. If someone picks up the card just to see if they're real by touch alone, it will pass.

>Does light bounce off the same way?
Sort of. There's a bit more of a shine since there are less layers of ink to absorb the light than actual cards which, as I said before, have multiple layers. More colors means less light to reflect because most of it is being absorbed; this is especially true with black and brown cards. The difference isn't noticable if they're in sleeves.

>What about shine through?
I haven't tested this. I've looked at the proxies from the side to see the core but I can't remember if they were the same as an actual card. It looked like it passed, though.

>>49563505
Maybe a tinyurl will link you? http://tinyurl dot com slash hgc2au4

>my post is not spam

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>>49563587
*feel real.
>muh phone

Thanks man. I posted about a fake top some months ago. I don't care if peeps want to proxy up. I just don't want them to end up on my doorstep when I try to order the real thing.

>>49563587
Thanks, that link worked.

>>49562731
I bought dark confidants from VZ and they were trash.

His goyfs were good, but his colors are almost always off

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Just quickly typed up a MUD list - anything blatantly wrong with it?

I don't have Caverns, so didn't include them.

Hope to have something built up before the end of the night.

>>49560288

Sorry for the lateness of my reply.

In short, yes. My main problem with that list is that I don't like having a fifteenth land in the maindeck, though running only four tutors is manageable. I still think a fifth is better than anything else on which I've settled, though. Still testing a Top and a Mox, though I have trouble believing either is better than a fifth tutor on balance.

My list:
1x Island
1x Swamp
1x Tropical Island
1x Volcanic Island
1x Bloodstained Mire
1x Flooded Strand
2x Scalding Tarn
2x Underground Sea
4x Polluted Delta

4x Lotus Petal
4x Lion's Eye Diamond

1x Rain of Filth
1x Tendrils of Agony
1x Ad Nauseam
1x Dark Petition
2x Past in Flames
2x Preordain
3x Cabal Therapy
3x Duress
4x Gitaxian Probe
4x Brainstorm
4x Ponder
4x Dark Ritual
4x Cabal Ritual
4x Infernal Tutor

Board:
4x Abrupt Decay
2x Hurkyl's Recall
2x Chain of Vapor
2x Tendrils of Agony
1x Bayou
1x Krosan Grip
1x Disfigure
1x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Empty the Warrens

>>49547319

I think new Chandra might have a place in red Chalice decks, but I don't think it's fast enough for Burn.

>>49564671
I like the inclusion of Coercive Portal. Nice list.

>>49564671
3 Metalworker seems one too few to me. It's just a must-answer card.

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>>49565767
I honestly thought i'd put 4 in.

-1 Karn
-1 Wurmcoil
+1 Metalworker
+1 Blightsteel Colossus

Sorted.

What do you guys think about cutting some Hymns for Cities/Crystal Veins/Swamps? I've been having trouble with mana in my opening hands and hand disruption isn't really that relevant considering I'm probably locking them out anyway.
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/28-09-16-demon-stompy/

>>49565903
Sounds good. While Karn is great, 2 Ugins seem to be enough, especially since they're not artifacts. My brother has used two for great value. On the other hand, Blightsteel is very often just "lol I win". Don't think you'll regret having one in the main, and you'll never regret having two Metalworkers as they will eat every Bolt and Swords your opponents have. I would probably cut one Revoker instead of the Wurmcoil, as it's just so good against Eldrazi and Delver, but then I don't play the deck myself.

>>49566216
Since your deck really needs BB, I would be careful with cutting too much black mana, but you definitely want 2 more cities to reliably cast T1 Chalice on 1 and T2 Trinisphere. Maybe add another Urborg so they can produce B?

>>49566285
I was talking about more lands in general in place of a couple Hymn to Tourach. I haven't had a problem getting BB so far. Strike Leader only needs B and can close the game out on his own. Hymns just seem irrelevant when I shouldn't be letting them cast spells to begin with.

>>49566327
Oh right, sorry. My advice still stands, put in two more Cities. Cut two Hymns for them. Playtest it.

>>49566327
Also, not sure about Gloom. If you want to stop Death&Taxes, use Dread of Night, since they will use Aether Vial anyway.

>>49565061
She doesn't really do anything great for them, koth is still a better choice I think. Maybe the future will yield different results

>>49566341
That's what I was thinking, thanks.

>>49566377
Probably fair, I might try something else instead, for other matchups.

>>49566561
Phyrexian Revoker or Pithing Needle are a nice catch-all. Use them against DRS, SDT or LED (only Revoker here, though).

>>49566643
Why only Revoker?

>>49566689
Only Revoker shuts down LED (might have worded that badly). Pithing Needle doesn't stop mana abilities. However, Pithing Needle stops abilities from lands, so having it on Thespian's Stage is nice.

>>49566722
I think I'll go for Needle, thanks for the help. I also like it against D&T.

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das it mane

>>49567244
>he already has it in paper

>>49567244
If you're going the Post route, why not 4 Vesuva? And why only 3 Trinisphere?

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>>49567430
>why not 4 Vesuva?
Only own 3 Vesuvas.

>And why only 3 Trinisphere?
What would you drop for a 4th?

>>49567647
I don't actually know, I just really like Trinisphere.

>>49567244
I still have nightmares from when my friend dropped a T1 Trinisphere on me while I was playing Burn. I wanted to die.

Man, the XMage servers are really bad recently. Also, pro tip: choose "no" on "would you like to reconnect", then reconnect manually instead.

>>49566774
I'm bhegstad on xmage, play me you cheeky cunt

>>49567911
I know who you are, XMage just forced me to reboot my PC. Game is up now.

>>49567933
I'm playing another game with Mr Bones cus I waited long for you.

LET ME OFF THIS RIDE.

>>49568037
I'm going to bed. I hear the NA server isn't as fucked, so maybe we can play there tomorrow.

>>49567430
>>49567647

Honestly, most 12post decks drop it to only 2 Vesuvas, from what I've seen. Maybe a Thespian's Stage if you have the Dark Depths combo.

Which is fine by me, because I only owned 2 Vesuvas! woo hoo!

>>49568697
>12post
>only 10 posts

>>49568221
Fuck Xmage, the german servers crash every 15 minutes.

>>49553659
With Scroll Rack, Terminus is almost just better than WoG.

>>49568771
I see a lot of "11 post" 12 post lists, 10 is also becoming more common

>>49568697
Dark Depths doesn't really need Vesuvas because other then a few lands like stage you'll rather have a consistently for urborg and more land finding cards.


And I just realized that you were considering using stage for 12post. Wouldn't really recommend it if you can. Stage's advantage is how it doesn't enter the battle field as something. Unless you'll bring dark depths as an "Oops I win" like Battle of Wits.

This thread is autosaging so fast no one will see me admit that I've never played a single game of MTGO.

>>49570408
Neither have I, brother.

>>49570209

I'm just tellin' you the lists I've been seeing, they include the Thespian/Depths combo (one of each) because 12 Post is already packing the typical generic land search spells of Crop Rotation/Reap and Sow/Primeval Titan and the blue protection of Force of Will (usually against combo, but will protect your 20/20 in a pinch on the turn you "go off" with it).

>>49570408
I saw it!

>>49570408
Checked, I haven't either actually, I play on Cockatrice and Untap.

I'll make a new thread once this one 404s.

>>49571045
Make it before 404 so you can link it here

>>49571170
Done and done.

>>49571190
>>49571190

>>49571200
Good job and good dubs