D&D 4e General /4eg/

>>49515043
I do what I can--kits and tools, skills, rituals or martial practices, within the bounds of class and race already chosen. I won't try for things like astronomical levels of Bluff unless I have a character in mind that needs it--in other words, not every rogue I make will need to have all the same tricks from Thievery and/or Streetwise and/or whatever.

>>49515433
When is it worth it to put Rhythm Blade on a parrying dagger (and spend the feat slot for proficiency in it)?

>>49515658
Ye Olde Most Annoying Rogue Ever build uses an offhand rhythm blade parrying dagger (feat obtained via Gritty Sergeant background). That's one specific case where it works. Was curious if there were any others.

>>49515815
Hum. I just re-looked at the build and Gritty Sergeant is used to get proficiency in rapier. Rhythm Blade is put onto a light spiked shield. I have no idea why I thought it used a parrying dagger.

Carry on.

>>49515559
Be an arena fighter and make it one of your arena weapons

Does parrying dagger count as a dagger? Can you use the implement enchants on it?

I remember trying to build a Bard and considering using a parrying dagger for some reason about a year ago.

can anyone help me with the WoTC character creator

i have it installed up to the oct 2010 patch and im using cbloader 1.3

everything was working fine until recently every time i try to save or open a character sheet the program freezes and crashes my pc

has anyone had this issue or know how to fix it? as usual google search results are useless

>>49517526
Have you tried deleting and reinstalling it yet? Doesn't sound like something you can fix on your own.

>>49517613
yea i have completely uninstalled (deleting all temp folders etc) and reinstalled multiple times. the program works fine its just saving and opening character sheets which makes it unusable if i can't do that

How would you go about making a Paladin/Warlock (Either multiclass or hybrid)?

I've been wanting to make a character for a while and with 4e allowing Paladins of any alignment a Paladin of Admodeus could be a lot of fun.

>>49518297

Curse spreaders?

I was thinking about Tiefling, would that be alright?

>>49518297

Also: Wouldn't I want an encounter power that can actually benefit from Warlock Curse? Hybrid curse says it only works with Warlock powers.

Where is Battle Cleric's Lore? I'm trawling the compendium, and can't find it?

>classes with dual main stats can now use either stat for ALL of their moves
>Paladins can use either Stat or Cha, Warlocks either Con/Cha ect.
How does this change things? It's not cool not having access to half of your possible abilities

>>49518315
Certain powers, feats, etc, allow you to curse extra targets, saving you minor actions
Tiefling will work and give you a bunch of feat support. Wrath of the Crimson Legion is one feat you'll want to look at
>>49518347
The ideal setup is to have a warlock at-will you can use whenever you want to increase your dpr, such as mindbite scorn, which has options to improve damage even further

>>49518566
>mindbite scorn
Hand of blight*

>>49518370
Well the whole idea behind that is that the different mainstat options have a different way of fighting. STR paladins are very direct-damage oriented, while CHA pallys focus more on disabling/punishing. It also affects what feats the class has access to, which can alter their playstyle further.

I guess opening up stat options that way won't break things terribly, but it does open doors for some minor(?) feat/hybrid shenanigans

>>49518247
>>49518297
The simpler build is if you want to be a more cleave-y, smite-y SoB is to hybrid Paladin (chevalier) instead of non-essentials paladin. Less action economy issues, although you also lock yourself out of using the feats that rely on having divine challenge and curse on the same target, as well as Champion of Justice (if you wanted to melee some fools).

>>49518695
>>49518588
Speaking of hand of blight, would it be worth it to couple with the tyrian bureaucrat feat, which lets you daze if you expend a fell might? Semi at-will dazing seems good, but I don't know how often you'd be able you get back a fell might in a typical encounter

Well, some smart folks in this piece, so I have a question about important npc design.
Years ago, I wrote about how, due to adhering to the dice rolls, an npc enemy that had allied temporarily with the party inadvertently pushed a outside thing back thru the portal it was coming from, saving the day.
The players were salty as fuck, and it was suggested that I keep the npc, and have him be reoccurring, a living agent of thunderstealing from the pcs, or at least showing up to "save the day" in an obnoxiously comedic fashion.
Oddly, it was a Baaz draconian, and now I'm trying to figure out how to rebuild him as something more than a trash mob.
Someone had suggested paladin, but what would a lowly creature trapped in the Far Realm become to not only survive, but become mightier than thought possible?

>>49518646
>>49518695

Interesting, thanks.

Looking over this, is it worth picking up Crimson Fire to turn my curse into d10s vs people that are both cursed and marked by me? A 2 dice size upgrade looks very nice on something that doesn't seem too uncommon to happen.

>>49518695
>A hybrid paladin (cavalier)|warlock runs into the issue that Defender Aura and Righteous Radiance lock them into a melee-only build, and yet the warlock is a predominantly ranged class.

The warlock melee options are pretty good, last time I checked. You are also a full plate class with most likely CON secondary (possibly primary, although that'd make your paladin side suffer a bit), and a really bitchin' MBA, so I'm pretty sure you'll be fine. At worst, there'll be a few turns you don't get to use your Aura; which is okay, since you can just use the paladin powers to divine sanction if you want to keep marking up while you choose a new target to strike.

>>49518896
There are better feats to pick first *cough*wrathofthecrimsonlegion*cough*, and as a tiefling paladin|warlock, you'll be very stretched for feats

>>49518875
Warlock.

>>49518896
Yeah, that's the beauty of Paladin | warlock; it should also affect your mindbite scorn bonus dice by RAW, which is an average 4 damage increase; pretty friggin sweet.

Do note it needs to be paladin divine challenge sadly, not other marks.

>>49518919
I'd go as far as to say that that's pretty useless for a paladin | warlock. If you want to use melee attacks, you are far better off saving a feat and just using Eldritch Strike.

>>49518917
I don't think warlocks don't have a whole lot of melee options. They have eldritch strike, and like one sorcerer-king power every level, which vary in quality. All the really good stuff is ranged only

>>49518919

Yeah, Wrath looks very nice.

If I'm reading this right, that's gunna give me 121 squares worth of 'You guys are all my bitches'. Sounds like I'll be able to keep the attention of every single minion in the encounter instantly.

>>49518969

Well, the trade in for my racial power is pretty nice. Though the GM has said I can make the trade without taking the feat (The feat will, however, give me Cha MBAs) like how a Dragonborn can take his alt racial power without a feat.

>>49518969
It's the "you get call of challenge but with better range" part that's good

>>49518987
The CHA MBA-s aren't really worth it imo, because they don't trigger your curse damage.

I mean, it's a nice bonus, but if you intend to melee, I'd save the feat and go Eldritch Strike.

>>49518973
Well, I usually build them low level and you've got Armor of Agathys and Arms of Hadar right there.

Armor of Agathys is pretty terrific imo.

>>49519026

Themes are allowed, we are starting at 5 and I suppose we expect to reach Low-Mid Paragon? We are getting Improved Defences and an Expertise for free. I'm ok with Item Dependent.

Nothing is banned unless it breaks the game in half. He said something about a holy mafia?

>>49519050
I haven't got time to go through, but looking at 3, Delbans Deadly attention is pretty sweet, and again, better used in melee.

>>49519026
>Reflavor a Medium-sized, flying monster appropriately
>spend no time creating a unique npc that interacts with the party
Are you one of those types that only uses things already printed?
> Building NPCs as PCs is a poor idea, because PCs and NPCs are designed with wholly different math in mind.
Ignoring your high and mighty attitude, yes, I already know that, it's pretty obvious if you look at the book for more than 10 minutes. Thanks for the bump, I guess.
>>49519080
Radiant Mafia. It's a series of specific character builds designed to build upon and exploit radiant damage. It's pretty vicious when you see it in action, I've seen it sprung on someone, poor sap.

>>49519187
>misses the forest for the tree

>>49519163
I see you are unfamiliar with touhoufag. Touhoufag means no disrespect, no need to become confrontational. It's okay though, we forgive you of your ignorance.

>>49519274
No, I am quite familiar with it.
I simply have no sympathy or empathy for it, and I see no need to be told something that is laid bare almost by rote, on top of having what I had asked about ritually ignored.
Means little anyway, got what I expected.

>>49519342
Ask a shitty question get a shitty answer. I don't know what you expected to happen.

Gentlemen, please direct your shitposting to one of the 3.PF troll threads.

>>49519163
You may already know it, but it's still worth repeating.

As for actual pointers, one of the epic level quest lines that ends with the death of Tiamat (the name escapes me atm) has a high level vampiric dragonborn fighter in it. IIRC, he was actually pretty dope, you could use it as base.

>>49519385
I forgot, we can only talk about mechanics in these threads, not fluff, or lore, or the games that none of you are actually playing or running.

>>49519026
>4e is not D&D 3.X/Pathfinder. Building NPCs as PCs is a poor idea, because PCs and NPCs are designed with wholly different math in mind.
>Reflavor a Medium-sized, flying monster appropriately, and remember to use Monster Manual 3 math.
Dude, it's fine when it's a companion

>>49518875
>Someone had suggested paladin, but what would a lowly creature trapped in the Far Realm become to not only survive, but become mightier than thought possible?

Obvious:
Warlock - some dark forces rubbed off on him
Sorcerer - the same, but he's unstably powerful now

Since baaz tend to be rather hands-on, let's see tougher classes
Fighter - he survived through sheer tenacity
Warden - can be fluffed as his form becoming somewhat malleable, allowing him to assume various forms
Battlemind - the same, really. Also, 4e's psionics is connected to Far Realm, as a sort of anti-body against it
Paladin - could be fluffed as a more martial warlock

>>49519581
>Everything from that adventure path is under Monster Manual 1/2 math.

He'd have to downgrade the dude anyway. Math is not the important part, the abilities are.

... then again, I may misremember and he may be nothing special.

>>49519581
Reoccuring NPC that steals PC's thunder in a comedic fashion sounds like a companion to me.
Also, even if he's supposed to be an enemy, having a class to steal a feature/power or two from is fine

>>49520102
Does "assistant" sound better to you?

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Can good tactical awareness and team play be taught over the first few levels when the players have...limited strategic skills and only experience in wargames through videogames (like poor MOBA skills or playing recent Fire Emblem games on casual and easy mode) or is a group that goes into 4e without the mindset for it going to be lost without prior instruction?

What sort of skill challenges have been most engaging or interesting in your games? Trying to design some in an introductory scenario for a new group of players.

>>49520680
I know it's RPG.net but this thread contains some pretty fucking great SCs:
https://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?774082-D-amp-D-4e-Into-the-Deep

>>49515043
Forgot the epic whatever, but one for wizards/mages gives you bonuses based on your roll + Arcana, so I min maxed arcana a bit to make that and the Maze spell amazing

Plus he ended up casting rituals a lot

>>49520657
If they understand MOBAs they should understand 4e.

>>49521784
>understand
...about that.
What if they're terrible at them due to either a lack of foresight and situational awareness or a refusal to improve how they conform to the effective team roles when they fail to contribute?

>>49521947
Well, a MOBA game is like an entire campaign condensed down into 20-30 minutes. As long as they are clear with the theory, it should work out... probably.

>>49521947
MOBAs require twitch, or the physical ability to react quickly to fast-paced changes in a situation. 4e requires none of that, because even if you push for people to speed up their turns, that's one "mouse click" that's going to take thirty seconds at absolute minimum.

Lack of foresight and situational awareness can be fixed. Refusal to adapt and improve...not so much, unless you just TPK them and declare Campaign Over, and then go over with a fine-tooth comb exactly where they dun fucked up.

>>49525349
>unless you just TPK them and declare Campaign Over, and then go over with a fine-tooth comb exactly where they dun fucked up.

Alternatively, have an incredibly annoying goblin warchief enemy who points out every tactical mistake they make in a squeeky voice (they still lose because they are goblins, but he always gets away and joins the next band of monsters).

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>>49525423
>brilliant goblin strategist could run circles around any human general
>can never organize other goblins to get shit done cause they're chaotic fucks destined to always lose
>get beaten repeatedly by some painfully retarded adventurers you could've mopped the floor with if anyone would listen to you
It's a hard life being a goblin

>>49525544
>you moved out of position, leaving the left side of your formation entirely open!
>if only yor would have flanked you LIKE WE HAVE PRACTICED you'd be lying on the ground now

Are flaming weapons any good for a tiefling? They look to have a lot of racial fire support.

>>49527698
As long as you don't end up facing devils/demons, yeah

>>49515043
>it's better out of the box as long as you homebrew it
Isn't this exactly what 4e players said wasn't good if you play 3.5?

Is there no end to the hypocrisy?

>>49532221
It's
>If you don't give out these feats for free, everyone is taxed with taking them or suffer a -1 to hit

vs

>If you play above level 6 and don't ban half the classes, the game falls apart

>>49532327
Considering a -1 to hit is a massive penalty in 4e, you're not making your argument any better.

>>49532339

It's a penalty, yeah but it's not really 'The game falls apart' like say Fighter vs Wizard in 3.5

It's a deal-able penalty, at that. It's still a d20 system. It's not like it's -1 on a d6 system.

>>49532339
well, first off, everyone can still take those feats tho. You don't need to brew that +1 into the system, it's just better to hand it out if everyone will take it anyway.

Second, it's the same chance, -5%. Both games use d20s (except 4e doesn't fall apart, so you actually care about -5% to your attack).

>>49532339
>Considering a -1 to hit is a massive penalty in 4e
I keep hearing this but I don't see it. It's just -1. There's a million ways to get +1's and 2's to make up for it, and if -1 was so terrible to begin with there'd be absolutely no reason to use +2 prof weapons like polearms, axes, etc over +3 ones

>>49533107
+2 weapons that aren't polearms actually ARE considered worse, like, 90% of the time.

>>49533128
Yet flail and mace builds are still a thing

>>49533141
Well, that's the property of flail and mace expertise being really good, not the weapons themselves.

>>49533141
>>49533107

Basically: The difference between a +2 and +3 weapon is the difference between 7/10 and 8/10. Not a huge amount and possible not to notice but there.

It's just that since 4e clumps the power levels a lot closer together (I mean, even the Vampire isn't unplayable bad. Just low for 4e. It's no 3.5 Fighter) people make a lot more out of that 1/10 difference.

>>49533176
The property wouldn't matter much if -1 was such a terrible penalty you couldn't hit

>>49533196
Right, but in a vacuum, without those feats, you'd never pick up a +2 weapon over a +3 one, unless it had reach. +2 weapons rarely have anything other to offer than a few points more of damage, which isn't worth it compared to the +1 to hit.

Which is why these really good expertise feats for maces/flails were made later on.

>>49533141
Which reminds me:

If Paladin | Warlock hybrid bro is here, flail expertise with eldritch strike is excellent if you go for a melee build. You'll need to grab some expertise for your holy symbol as well though, to use your implement powers IIRC.

>>49533141
The triple-headed flail and singing stick are a +3 proficiency flail and mace respectively.

The singing stick in particular stands out, it's a superior weapon with only the defensive feature in it's favor and low damage dice, and yet pretty much every build that wants a mace will take the feat for proficiency, because a d10 +2 weapon is far worse than a d6 +3 weapon.

The +2 proficiency weapon that really stands out as useful is the gouge. Because it is by far the best charging weapon in the game

>>49534430
Actually I recall some number crunching showing that the gouge falls off in paragon/epic to other superior weapons like the fullblade, even with feat support

>>49534430
Also, Rapid Strikes/headsman's chop builds.

>>49534482
>Rapid Strikes
*Rain of Blows

I keep forgetting that name.