/tgesg/ - Weekend Elder Scrolls Lore General

>>49512444
Why do the Aedra always seem to be more powerful than the Daedra, when everything in their being seems to make them weaker? They're not eternal, they cannot directly interact with the world, and yet anything from the Aetherium tends to command the most earth-shattering surreal power, whereas Daedric magics tend to be quite powerful, but nowhere near as mysterious or world-shaking.

>>49512754
Aedra are more anuic in their nature, while Daedra are more padomeic. Because of this, Aedra have the power to *create*, while Daedra only have the power to *change*.

>>49512982
So the fact that the Daedra didn't take part in the construction of Mundus means that while they retained all that change power they CANNOT create now?

>>49513074
They cannot create because all they understand is change, because of their alignment with Padomay.

Think about it: the princes didn't "create" the lesser daedra, they chose whose prince to serve. The princes didn't "create" their planes, those are themselves.
All they can do, all they know how to do, is change things around them.

Can I talk about Fallout lore here too?

>>49513207
Well the thread IS labelled "Fallout Lore Discussion", isn't it?

>>49513246
Well I didn't want to clog the catalog with another /v/ thread and asked, apparently I can't so I'll fuck off.

Sadly since Bethsoft owns the Fallout franchise, they own the canon. Nirnroot was found in Fallout 4. Fallout is pre-historic Elder Scrolls. Talk all you want about prehistory.

>>49514637
So magic is basically the result of radiation? Alduin is just a really really old and powerful flying deathclaw?

>>49513207
Not really, but we can anyways if you want. Go ahead and ask a question and we can discuss it.

Fallout isn't as "serious" as a setting, although very interesting and realized, the canon and the metaphysics surrounding it are sometimes fairly vague and don't seems as important to most of the aspects that brought it about, such as a disregard for real life physics and medical science in favor of a midnight sci-fi horror tone with fish monsters and killer robots. This very lack of seriousness and gravity of every word that could simply just be a joke, not that TES doesn't have these for an extremely less extent or not to imply that Fallout doesn't have a lot of very serious things, is what I think is the major reason there isn't much discussion about its lore or why there aren't any generals. It gives it a more fluid feeling.

>>49514637
What is a non-canon Easter Egg?

>>49515344
Do you think skooma gives different effects for each khajiit form

>>49512982
>Aedra have the power to *create*, while Daedra only have the power to *change*
Fa-Nuit-Hen and The Barons of Move Like This disproves this notion since the later poured "so much essence and animus into creating their arenas, that they discorporated".

>>49512754
>>49512982
>>49513074
i always like to think that while daedra can interact with nirn and other planes of oblivion, the aedra cant leave nirn because they are bound to it. and they have absolute control over it while daedras need special circumstances for it (sacrifice, particular day, weather... etc)

>>49513074
Possibly. After all, their powers aren't tied to Mundus in any way.

>>49514637
>Fallout is pre-historic Elder Scrolls.
I'd really hate this, I can't think of any way to make this good.

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So wait, what is Temple Zero or a better question is, who is Temple Zero?

Whatever happened to Falkreath? Who are Men-of-Kreth?

Also, why are Argonians so boring? What is the DEEPLORE for them?

>>49514637
It's a reference and joke you dumb cunt.

>>49518966
Cuhlecain, jarl of Falkreath, enlisted general Talos to conquer shit. He was going to become emperor, but was assasinated by a High Rock nightblade (presumably Hjalti, part of the Talos oversoul) and Talos was crowned emperor as Tiber Septim. Cuhlecain is known as Emperor Zero.

>>49518966
Random stuff:

An Argonian city council is called the Organism, led by the Ascendant Organ Lord (all roughly translated from Jel).
Lilmoth used to be ruled by Priest-King and Priest-Queens, and had huge ziggurats. In the early fourth era, the An-Xileel actually excavated the ancient stepped pyramid of Ixtaxh-thtithil-meht, and kept it dry with magical enchantments. Lilmoth is continuously sinking, and the decaying tops of old buildings are often seen, and used as fundament for new buildings. The An-Xileel had, and possibly still have, an interest in going back in time, so to speak, dragging old Lilmoth out of the swamp.
In the early third era, the last Priest-King was executed and a Cyrodiilic dynasty took the throne.

The Hist are all connected, and usually of one mind, but Argonians generally have access to one particular tree. Imagine a network of brains, with an instantaneous connection between them. To outsiders, this might make the Hist seem like they're essentially one hivemind, but that's not the case. It is for example possible for one Hist to separate itself from the collective. The Hist also have vague roles, one massive Hist in a city can be the "city tree", and this is somewhat dynamic (Hist die, new ones grow, and take these titles), but the mechanics of it all are obscure and poorly understood.

There's a Argonian folk tale that says that Mangroves are a race of giant spiders that got turned into trees for angering the Hist. It's a neat story.

>>49519849
Argonians believe that they have been given souls by the Hist, and that when they die, their souls are reclaimed by the Hist until they are reincarnated. One Argonian character says this feels intuitively true to him, because he, at the deepest and most remote parts of his thinking, can recall vague experiences that he himself never has experienced. But if this is something unrelated, something individual, or if it is indeed the case that "leftover" memories from earlier incarnations are common in all Argonians is uncertain.

Argonians often have a tough time learning the languages of Men and Mer, because Jel is so fundamentally different. One aspect of this is the understanding of time. The concept of time is certainly known to the Argonians, but it's not emphasised in Jel, and verbs in Jel are not conjugated in relation to when the action took place. They consider other languages (and mindsets) to be too concerned with linear succession rather than holistic understanding. But more modern Argonian thought is very much influenced by Cyrodiilic concepts and language. The An-Xileel are on the other hand traditionalists.

The traditionalist understanding of time is even more radical. They hold that the linear notion of time is an illusion, and that everything is a "momentary cycle" of sorts. It's hard to say much about this concept, as it's fairly obscure. Safe to say, life and the universe is cyclic, but that cycle is essentially one "moment" that is now. I think.

>>49520043
The Argonians, are historically speaking, tribal, but the whole nature of it all is hard to understand. The arrangement of kingdoms, cities, tribes, types of Argonians, and the Hist all creates what seems like a surprisingly complex reality.
To add to that, the province of Argonia has been inhabited by Ayleids, tribes of Nedes, tribes of Elves, the nomadic Lilmothiit, and tons of people associated with the Empire.

Argonians are odd in that they predominantly prefer to assimilate into local culture when they move out of the province. It is very rare for Argonians to try to keep the same tribal lifestyle or culture in any other part of Tamriel.

Men and Mer often see the relationship between Argonian and Hist as a matter of swamp-paganism. That it's just lizards worshipping trees. Those aware of the true nature of the Hist see it as some sort of servitude. But, the Argonians are not irrevocably bound or subject to the Hist, nor are the Hist one entity.
The relationship, as poorly understood as it is, is more of a symbiosis than anything else.

>>49517755

awesom

>>49520288
The south of Argonia is filled with deep waterways. So much so that the Imperial Navy was once able to sail from Soulrest almost all the way to Blackrose, along the rivers.
Speaking of Blackrose, it's the home of one of the most secure prisons in Tamriel, built by the Potentate. It was still in operation in the third era, and those of Jagar Tharn's associates who weren't executed were kept there.

Once the Second Empire collapsed, several of the Imperial (mostly Cyrodiilic) officials left in Argonia actually became warlords, establishing dynasties that lasted for some time. Until the Flu, naturally.
The Second Empire held parts of the inland, but generally that region has always been independent, free of outside rule.

That should suffice for now.

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>>49519849
>>49520043
>>49520288
>>49520468
bretty gud, but how much of this is from ESO?

You forgot Kothringi btw

>>49520596
Do the Kothringi even exist anymore?

>>49520596
>how much of this is from ESO?
None of it.

>You forgot Kothringi
I wasn't going to include everything.

Could D&D 5e work for running an Elder Scrolls game with a few adjustments to better fit the mechanics of magic in the universe and a writeup of the races specific to the setting?
I know there's a specifically designed RPG in the OP, but my group enjoys 5e and getting them to learn new systems is like pulling teeth from a crocodile.

>>49522004
Once I made morrowind in a bit modified 3.5. 5th ed is even more flexible Im sure you could do it.

>>49514637
At least be cool and say Fallout is a previous kalpa

>>49514637
And in FNV you could find Rodents of Unusual Size, Holy Hand Grenades, Indiana Jones' corpse, and a number of other references that aren't canon.

>>49522471
Indiana Jones is the same universe as TES.

>>49522471
Indiana jones corpse was in Mrrorowind even,. so I guees its same realms
also there was a pickachoo in morrowind, hmm, what would that mean

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>>49514637
No, Anon. TES isn't Fallout.

TES is Star Trek.
>Lieutenant M'Ress
>name fits with established Khajiit naming customs
>is a cat
>Caitian = Khajiit
I mean, it's practically confirmed.

>>49522796
That last panel is like "God help me I want to fuck a cat".

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>>49522950

I don't think her being an alien cat-person is the biggest obstacle between her and Sulu.

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I've been learning about how Greeks had tons of different styles of pottery meant for different uses, and I'm curious - can the kinds of jars and pots you see in Morrowind be loosely grouped into different styles, beyond 'Imperial' and 'local?'

>>49512444
We should really stop these weekday threads.
>>49518966
>what is Temple Zero
An organization that dabbles in conspiracy and the occult, things like the Arcturian Heresy. Possibly formed out of the Emperor Zero Cult.
>Who are Men-of-Kreth?
Likely the first Cyro-Nordic people.

>>49523547
>We should really stop these weekday threads.
why?

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>>49522004
Haven't played 5e, but it should work.
It wouldn't be optimal, but I know how hard it is to try to get people to learn new systems.
You should probably have a look at some of the homebrews in the OP. They can give you some good ideas on how to adapt 5e.

>>49522950
>he doesn't want to fuck a cat

>>49523547
>We should really stop these weekday threads
Ideally, yes. But we've been pretty good at abstaining recently.

So do people accept Kirkbride's lore that didn't make it into the games after he stopped working for Bethesda?

And how canonical are out of main game works like the novels or mobile?

Cause this Whitestrake being a robot really fucked me up.

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>>49524575
oh boy here we go again

>>49524575
> Michael Kirkbride said that Pelinal was homosexual, though the direct reference of their intimacy was removed from the final book as it was "a simple matter of keeping his sexuality ambiguous. Since the player was donning Pelinal's armor, completing a mission that he could not, in a sense becoming him, being so blunt about Pelinal's sexuality was too... definitive in relation to the PC's own. Given the open nature of TES PCs, I felt that it was fine to keep it open to interpretation.

Dont you guys find it strange that he was a gay robot? Vivec was also kinda gay. I suspect that Talos was a bit gay too. Mikhael why u do dis.

>>49524575
Kirkbread is the only canon.
Everything else in TES is just a boring lame ass classic fantasy bullshit.
Hints that Pelinal was a cyborg from the future were even in Oblivion. Since Mike was the one who wrote this, probably we should consider it as "canon", cause doubting what creator himself says about his character would be pretty silly.

About overall canon tes canon outside of games...oh fuck me thats a big topic next time mon

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>>49524317
It's so hard to resist something that actually wants to fuck you back. Khajiit had always been portrayed as rather playful and free when it comes to such things, where most anyone else doesn't hit on your character without an ulterior motive - setting up a bandit ambush, trying to convince you to help them avoid the people hunting them, that sort of thing.

>>49524575
>Whitestrake being a robot

>"he was Pelinal the Whitestrake because of his left hand, made of a killing light"
Come on, we all know he's Mega Man.

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>>49524575

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>>49523455
Excellent idea. I'll be sure to task one of my subordinates with categorising all jars and pots of Vvardenfell.

>>49523455
The blue plates are nice, but the brown ones seem to last longer.

>>49522471
Holy Hand Grenades go back even to Fallout 2 anon.

>>49523455
The limeware is dwemeri in origin. That's about all I know.

>>49527509
>>49523455
Adding on to this, there is one Dunmer in Ald'rhun who studies local pottery, and his house is entirely filled with Redware. However, I'd imagine that the other races make Redware as well since the ones in Oblivion appear to be local in design.

>>49524278
Because we end up running out of things to talk about causing these threads to run on throughout the whole week till we reach the weekend where we still dont have much to talk about.

>>49527081
I think that tavern girl is looking at me. How can I tell her I'm *not* interested?

>>49527559
He studies pottery? I'd just assumed he was a pottery-maker.

I noticed the guy next door, Ienas Sarandas, has several varieties of cups and bowls, and Imperial-style bottles next to jugs of Shein and Matze.

>>49524575
If it's licensed by Bethesda in any way it's canon. So all games made by any Bethesda Softwork studios + games licensed to other studios + the novels are canon as far as I'm concerned. Everything else is just fanfiction.

test

>>49528464
MY TEETH ITCH.

If Black Marsh is supposed to be super hard to navigate with the swamp morphing all the time, how did the Empire conquer it so easily?

Is the Imperial Library a good place to start learning lore when my only initiation is Skyrim?
I wish I could play the older games too, but I'm somewhat restricted for time these days.

>>49531164
Short answer:
The Empire never conquered the interior. The Reman dynasty had only very limited success in that (but they didn't hold the entire coast), and Tiber Septim didn't even try. At least half, probably more, of the area of Black Marsh doesn't really recognise Imperial rule.

The Empire has always used superior military to size the coast and the areas that border other provinces, and then just declare the entire province conquered. Helstrom is for example a city that has never been conquered, and sort of just played along with Imperial rule when it has to.
It was also the case, at least for the third empire, that local nobles and chieftains of the Archeins would act as Imperial governors in rural areas (anywhere except the cities, really), with limited Imperial influence. The areas without governors are naturally completely independent. Even the pro-Imperial Pocket Guide admits that the Empire doesn't know if these areas submit to their rule. If you don't know if you rule a land, you really don't.

As for military matters, Black Marsh has never been particularly united. The Remans fought a more united resistance, but it was destroyed in battle by Reman II before retreating into the interior. Tiber Septim mostly fought disunited city-kings and tribal chiefs.

>>49531269
Yeah, the Imperial Library is a good place to starts. Don't be shy about asking questions either.

>>49528341
Its still better than going back to vg full of waifus, canmt stand that place

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>>49524801
Nothing is purer than love and hate between two equals.

K, whats tgesg thinks about "orcs are dwarves" thing? Do you mostly agree with that?

>>49522796
>first frame she even has those weird bent legs that Khajiit and Argonians had in Morrowind

>>49523547
This is a pretty good weekday thread so far, and that's coming from someone who used to be opposed to them. Let's keep it that way.

>>49532603
They kind of fill that niche, they're isolationists, they do the craft good, they like to wear heavy armor. They don't like to live underground though, making them very much not dorfy.

>>49532630
Im not talking metaphorically. Theres a theory that dwarves (not all of em), basically, become orsimer.

>>49532636
By dwarves I mean dwemer ofc

>>49523455
>>49526103
>>49527081
>>49527509
>>49527559
>>49528601
One of the quarters in Vivec (I think it was St. Delyn's) has a Potter's hall, maybe check that out.

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>>49532636

>>49532610
I actually wonder if someone on the Morrowind team (Goodwill?) was inspired by Star Trek for the Khajiit, considering the name fits, and the legs.
But it's probably just pure coincidence. Cat-people and weird names with apostrophes aren't uncommon in fantas and science fiction.

Which reminds me:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1nUi3DaWzGI

>>49532603
It's nonsensical.

>>49532669
"Goodall"

So, Nerevarine killing Ur/destroying the heart is lore, right? What happened to him after that?

>>49528623
I don't remember using teleportation, but there I was. Alone. Naked.

>>49535485
Yes, the Nerevarine killing Dagoth Ur and destroying the heart is in the lore, it causes the Ministry of truth to finally hit, which causes Red Mountain to erupt, thus the Dark Elves in Skyrim fleeing Morrowind.


There's a source (not sure what it was) that says the Nerevarine goes to Akavir

>>49535485
>>49535653
The Heart was never destroyed.

>>49535485
He's hanging out at a resort in Turkey.

>>49531885
A Short History of Morrowind mentions Black Marsh was completely admitted into the Septim Empire through diplomacy.
The War for Blackmarsh in Reman times took something like 25 years iirc

>>49535653
>There's a source (not sure what it was) that says the Nerevarine goes to Akavir
k thats interesting. It seems the source is Oblivion.

But as I understood theres no other info? Like why he went there, did he dieded etc. Maybe Mike said something on reddit?

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>>49536529
Since he's virtually immortal, thanks to the Corprus disease, he fucks around on adventures until the End of Nirn occurs.
And it does. Landfall is triggered by the breaking free of Numidium that was engaged by the Mirror Logicians of Alinor in a millenia spanning battle, ever since the Siege of Alinor by Tiber Septim.

So Nerevar comes back piloting the Akulakhan and fights Numidium with it TTGL-style.

>>49537799
I always wondered why Lorkhan's heart was placed somewhere in the stomach of Akulakhan, and not where the heart should be.

Ash spawn, which are in a way spawns of Lorkhan also have their heart stones embedded in their stomach instead of chest.

Is this some kinda metaphor? Does Lorkhan get strong gut feelings about stuff?

>>49538018
Pretty much certain its meaningless. Even if it is supposed to have a meaning all we can do is guess, which, contrary to the beliefs of some, is not lore.

>>49536529
in skyrim it's said he went there on expedition

>>49532603
>>49532636
That theory was an elaborate ruse to troll r/teslore.

So last thread Trainwiz claimed that post-Landfall Redguards survived on Nirn in a waterworld-esque scenario. Anyone know what source he has for that, or was he talking shit?

>>49542655
In C0DA Jubal says that Numidium stomped Hammerfell into the ocean, to perhaps remind the Redguards of their history. It is not stated that the Redguards are living like waterworld. We don't know if they are even still alive anymore.

>>49540899
Oblivion.

>>49542655
https://www.reddit.com/r/teslore/comments/1y2all/is_hammerfell_sunk/

Basically someone suggested it and Kirkbride worked it into c0da
He also mentioned that there's points where Numidium's nonlinear timefucked bodyparts rise out of the ocean and cause trouble

>>49545869
>Let us not forget out fallen Yokudan brothers, who perished on many a barge during the great dickwave of 5E 278. Many children even now cower at the tale of penile destruction the Great Brass Walker wrought upon our seabound civilization.

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Greetings mortals, I am Arkay, God of Life and Death.

It seems this thread is going so slowly it will surely survive until the weekend, and an unbroken chain of thread lowers quality, while a rest between threads reduces most problems.

You must now decide between abstaining from posting and letting the thread sink into the abyss after the last page, or bring the thread to a quick demise by 'shitposting' in 200 comments.

go fast or kill the thread

>>49547989
Orkey, is that you? Stay away from my harvest, please.

>>49547989
I choose neither, Arkay. I shall continue to post, but I shall sage them.

I can't belive the thread is still up. Guess an occasional Dragon Break is alright as long as it doesn't happen all the time.

Anyways, something I found interesting through dialogue that interested me is that Imperials imply that Bretons are alcoholics, and Khajiit imply they inbreed. The latter I can sort of understand since if any provide is like ASOFAI, it would be Highrock, but the former intrigued me. In fact it made me think back to most of the drunken Breton characters in each game like Crendal, Daric Bielle, Reynald Jemane, Sam Guevenne, and Cosnach, and I can't help but feel there might be something to it.

What's the point of the Adlmeri Dominion deactivating/destroying the towers, the Dwemer already ascended, why do they have to be such unoriginal bitches?

>>49551908
Leave your questions for the next thread :^)

On a more serious note, the Dwemer failed in ascending

>>49551908
Oh, and don't forget to sage. We want this thread to die.

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>>49551999
Trips confirms. Bring about the end of this kalpa.

>>49551908
Well to start, the Dwemer failed their goal of ascending beyond all existence.
That isn't even what the Thalmor want anyways. The Thalmor want to bring things back to how they were before the physical world was created, erase the physical world from all existence, and make sure it is never even conceptualized ever again.

entry level here. Are the kalpa cycles based on Mundus, or on all of Creation? Them being all of creation would mean that Magnus (or some equivalent) has to piss off every time for there to be a sun?

>>49552325
It's unclear how far the kalpic circle extends. Hell, maybe even the daedric princes change a little bit.

>>49552325
The simple answer is we don't really know. On one hand we have Alduin who according, to legend, constantly eats the world so that it can be reborn. On the other we have Satakal, which entails the entire universe eating and re-birthing itself over and over.

>>49552389
Don't Akatosh and Lorkhan trade places every kalpa?

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>>49550251
Technically it was a weekend thread that lasted until the dragonbreak.

>>49550251
I think it might be a bit of a joke about how relatively cheap alcoholic drinks were in Daggerfall compared to Morrowind? They'd cost one or two gold instead of a couple dozen.

>>49556336
We'll to be fair even their potions have a vintage.

I don't know, though. It seems to be more of a cultural thing. Maybe it's part of how mercurial they are, or maybe a remnant of their Nordic/Nedic descent either genetically and/or culturally, or just because Bretons like using substances. Or maybe they have to drink more to get the same effects due to Magicka Resistance, and it creeps up on them like heroin addiction[/spoilers]

It doesn't really seem to have anything to do with Daggerfall, though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKopKvJFFL0

May this thread rest in peace.

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The adoring fan was a Thalmor plant meant to to get the Champion of Cyrodiil killed and make it look like accident.

Ho ha ho. How has this kalpa even started? I am going to eat it as I have eaten those before you fuckers.

>>49561351
>he didn't sage
You're an embarrassment.

cmon lads