/wmh/ Warmachine and Hordes General - Skorne is Shit Tier Edition

No thread question?

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...sigh.

>They can't WANT Skorne to suck
>Just look at this!

>>49458171
>both sheaths on same side
I know nothing about swordfighting, but wouldn't it be really ungainly to try and draw your weapon for the hand on the same side as the sheath?

>>49458032
Why has Hoksune forsaken us?

>>49458383
Skornergy!

Responding to the other guy talking about Jay vs Skorne at the RMR.

He didn't play him in the final round, played him in the round before, and played against the pMorg list that he was winning games with.

pMorg player made some mistakes, forgot to feat and bungled an assassination run. Jay made some mistakes as well, but in general it was a really interesting game to watch.

Skorne player lost to an Mk3 gotcha with Rasheth, if he'd have realized what the list did he'd have won pretty handily.

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>>49456669
Should or should not pick Strider Rangers? And what about UA? They do actually seem pretty good to me, but maybe i am missing something?

JUSTICE FOR CRYX

>>49458581
>skornergy
That isn't a real thing, it's called "having options."
t. Soles

>>49459376
Rangers, UA, deathstalkers. Any strider with a bow is good.

>>49459784
CRYX GOT WHAT IT DESERVED. REMOVE SKELTAL REMOVE SKELTAL SKELTAL YOU ARE THE CRYX IDIOT YUO ARE THE CRYX SMELL SHAERDE INVASION BEST DAY OF LIFE TORUK WE WILL GET YOU

>>49458383
It never stopped samurais.

if the one of the swords is short then it's no real problem.

Should we just rename these threads to Skorne Bitching General?

>>49460307
It should be Errata When General.

Seriously, when the fuck is the errata supposed to be coming? this thing need a balance patch so fucking badly.

>>49460315
The need to errata Linebreaker out of the game.

>>49458383
It looks cool.

>>49460307

Seriously. I've stopped coming to theses thread since I have to swim through a river if Skorne tears every single time.

>>49461534
But I play Skorne and think they're decent

>>49460307
What is there to talk about currently? The WTC lists that are exactly what everyone was expecting? The lame insiders that fail to distract from the broken as fuck game? There is nothing. So only whining remains.

>>49458384
Hoksune has its basis in suffering and mortification of the body. If you're not suffering, you're Skorning it wrong.

Those who want instant gratification should go play "oh hey look at my new electric toaster" Cygnar. Skorne make toast by holding the bread directly over the fire... with their bare hands.

>>49462139
Again with this crap. Nobody wants instant gratification. People who want that don't play wargames. We want a fair chance.

>>49462167
>We want a fair chance.
You think so? The expectation of fairness is a weakness that can be exploited. Persevering and succeeding in spite of massive disadvantages... that's how you get Skorne Strong. =)

Bit of tongue-in-cheek there, but the truth is you gain nothing by getting down about the state of the faction. Look at it as a gift. Eventually, Skorne will get erratas or releases that help. In the meantime, learning to win with a gimped faction will make you a better player. When those changes do come, you'll be better able to make use of them with all the skills you picked up fighting nothing but uphill battles for months or years.

Hey, hey! I've been playing WarmaHordes for <1 year. LOVE the Skorne. Love Corn Flakes. Love Privateer Press's new Skorne Flakes pin. BUYING IT SOMEDAY.....

just saying HELLO to everyone....anyone out there want to meet a whale? I am calling out to everyone asking this:

"does anyone want to show off their skorne models? this is the place to do it! Show me some models that will make my brain pop!"

I like looking at others models, listening to their techniques and using the techniques for myself and seeing if I like it! post soon!

>>49463169
>In the meantime, learning to win with a gimped faction will make you a better player.
Just as much as learning to win with a real faction. Exept:
1) The ceiling to reach is much higher
2) It's not frustrating

And honestly when a hobby becomes frustrating there is something very wrong with it.

>Eventually, Skorne will get erratas or releases that help.
And when is that? Mk4 in 2020? PP have no idea what the hell they are doing. Mk3 Skorne was ample proof of that.

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How many Mechanithralls would you say is enough?

>>49463540
0

>>49460315
>Seriously, when the fuck is the errata supposed to be coming?
I believe the current sheduel is every 6 months we get a "dynamic update errata."

Last update was in July, so I assume the next one will be in January.

I agree that there are some things that need fixing, but it kills be me to say that it would probably be best if we waited to see how theme forces play out. No point in asking for something to be buffed now if doing so would make it broken in a theme list.

>>49463295
What the fuck.
I've been away from WMHG for a few weeks, is this some new EPIC MEME xD or what's happening.

Also, how fucked is MKIII really? There seemed to be some small initial interest, but now it's died off. I also here instead of releasing theme forces in one book they're releasing each theme force as an entire separate book and IN ADDITION to that instead of doing faction books like they did at the beginning MKII they will be releasing them like GW codices where each faction gets updated one at a time.

Is this true, or is it all bullshit? Has PP finally lived long enough to see itself become the villain?

>>49463767
First Command book is in december, and it looks like only Trollbloods is coming out then.

>>49463767
>Has PP finally lived long enough to see itself become the villain?
Depends on how bad the books are really.

The current plan is to release command books which cover all of the warlocks and basic units and jacks/beasts for the faction. These may or may not contain some theme forces. These are mostly for art andore about the faction and will contain a few new releases.

Trolls are first and their command book drops in December. New releases known so far are Madrak3, Horgle2, and the Sea King.

After command books they'll release themeforce books which will cover a specific theme for the faction. For example the King Makers Army would be one, Llaelese Resistance another. These will cover more art and lore and have new releases.

The idea here is that they can produce new stuff for factions whenever they want instead of being forced to produce stuff for everyone for a big anthology book. New releases are supposed to be out within a month or so of the book release and we can see that with the new stuff for Trolls.

Whether or not any of this is going great to work is a mystery. It could be awesome or it could totally suck

>>49464365

So we're looking at a library of different books for each faction, then?

This kinda seems like the 40k problem. Codex longevity and snowflake books.

>>49461534

Well, at the very least you could have the goddamned common courtesy to say how much PP-approved fun you've been having at our expense.

>>49464921
Meh? It's not a bad release plan. You can focus on specific factions and release what factions need instead of having to do simultaneous releases.

Just because GW did it doesn't mean it's a bad idea. It can actually work if you put the time into it. You'll theoretically have less junk releases and stuff will be out shortly after the book drops instead of being in production for two years.

I have pretty about zero faith in PP right now though so I guess we'll see.

>>49464921
The 40k problem is power creep, not their release schedule. That said, I'm not a fan of the "supplements everywhere" approach regardless of parent product.

>>49461534
In the AMA, Soles outright said he thinks the rhinidon is good and that he likes it. With that sort of reality-bending madness at the helm, how could we possibly stay positive?

>>49465420

That more of a "keep Soles away from the mic" situation.

>>49465420
Maybe there's a theme list that it's really good in? Who knows

Just to make sure, plastic glue doesn't work with the Battlegroup casters, right?

What was the rationale behind toning down the Skorne warbeasts?

Did Titans hit too hard or something?

Also, what does having the Agonizer become a lesser Warbeast change as far as Fury management goes?

>>49465472
Skorne was a mid tier faction last edition and jothing they nerfed really needed it except for maybe like the molik missile (which is now the Imperatus missile with Elara2) they nerfed shit that nobody won tournaments with, i was absolutely strange.

>>49465547

I remember there being mention of something about removing "auto includes" from lists.

I guess apparently the Bronzeback, Gladiator and the rest were showing up in too many lists for PP's liking.

Still, I'm surprised they didn't keep the Siege Animantarax like they had it.

I'm not even sure what it's supposed to be doing now.

>>49465472
The problem is faction vision.

I'm mk2, Skorne developed a super alpha "apply Bronzrback, win game" tactic pretty much up until the end.

It was a hard tactic to pull off despite its simplicity, but when it worked it worked hardcore.

The issue was that they don't want Skorne to be an alpha faction, they want them to be a counter punch faction that benefits from their opponent killing their army. So they needed a lot of their alpha abilities along with most of their range game to try and bring focus back to that tactic.

The main issue with that is the counter punch factions are an absolute bitch to balance, and in the process they robbed Skorne of most of their good shit.

Essentially, they don't want Skorne to have elite infantry or super powerful beasts. They want a faction that has generally bleh models that gets more powerful when your opponent starts killing shit so you can come back hard on attrition.

I'm on my phone so I can't discuss all the problems with this strategy, but there's a few big ones.

>>49465249
Dark eldar veterans says otherwise.

>>49465698
SA is the melee beast they wanted it to be. Yea, it lost its range game, and I do think it's worse than the gun platform it was, but I don't think it's bad anymore.

Changing it to spd on tokens solved the issue of getting weaker as it swung, and the spd boosts gives it a pretty respectable threat. It hits roughly as hard as a heavy, with no fury issues and much higher threat.

>>49465862
PP releases aren't and have never been tied to book releases. The command books aren't going to affect the model release schedule at all

>>49465698
Too bad that gladiators are still goddamn auto includes

>>49465446
If you halved the cost of the Rhinodon, it would still not get taken.

>>49465935
Maybe with xerxis 2 if that was the case?

>>49465935
A 5-6 point heavy? Yea it would, if for no other reason than to hold a zone

Direct Souls ruling landed

>Soul Taker allows a model to gain souls due to the first sentence of the ability. When Direct Spirits is used, you can transfer the soul to any model capable of gaining soul tokens.

>A model can gain souls it couldn't collect normally due to Direct Spirits. Soul Taker has its own specific restrictions on souls it can gather normally. Direct Spirits allows additional souls with its ability.

Direct Spirits lets you put a soul on any model with the Soul Taker ability you wish when a friendly faction living warrior is destroyed in zaal's control area. This includes bypassing Reclaim's "destroyed by enemy attack" requirement for Zaal2 because Direct Spirits ignores eligibility.

>>49465980

Easy there kid. Who do you think you are? Khador?

>>49465837

>Essentially, they don't want Skorne to have elite infantry or super powerful beasts.

I thought that's what they were supposed to be in the lore given they're functionally the closest thing Hordes has to an Iron Kingdom?

They even describe Titans as being thundering hulks of sinew and muscle capable of crumpling lesser beasts and warjacks in the lore don't they?


>>49465935

> Rhinodon

How do you even make that viable as it is now without changing the stats?

>>49465698
I mean like, then why have other factions with auto includes? (Menoth and the choir, trolls and the krielstone, ret and arcanists, etc.) It just seems so arbitrary.

>>49466047

Anything can become stupidly, brokenly, good if it's cheap enough. Except possibly Nayl.

>>49465862
I assumed we were talking about the constant flow of small supplements rather than the decade-long waits for a faction update. I got my fill of that playing Dark Eldar and fucking Bretonnia.

>>49465902

>Too bad that gladiators are still goddamn auto includes

I think the new consensus in MK3 is to have at least two in your battlegroup now isn't it?

>>49466067
They tried to deal with that as well.

Choir took a pretty decent nerf

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>>49466129

>let's balance circle
>let's nerf things nobody took
>and buff the warp wolves and the warlocks everyone already took
>but we slightly nerfed teleporting so it's k

>>49466256
No one took Wurmwood, and eKrueger took several indirect nerfs.

But yea, that is how it feels. I don't think mk3 is worse than mk2. But it doesn't feel better either

>>49466320
The mechanics of mk3 are better, the balance is worse.

While it is nice to see Trolls showing up more so in a competitive scene, its because Madrak is broken and not so much the rest of it. Truthfully I wish Madrak was a little less so the diversity of the Caster's I get as a troll player might pop up. But I digress.

>>49465458
Exactly. It only works with hard plastic miniatures. And you should never use it anyways.

>>49466346
I wouldn't even say it's worse. We haven't seen anything that is straight meta destroying, just a lot of meta bending shit, same as elylith and egaspy

>>49466375

Truth to tell, the Skorne player base could dry up like a drained swamp and MK3 would still be a good game.

>>49466123
Not two but one is mandatory.

>>49466351
Honestly, except for gunnbjorn and e grissel troll warlocks didn't require much change. Troll internal balance was pretty good in terms of warlocks.

Not the case anymore.

>>49466047
>How do you even make that viable as it is now
Well you could-
>without changing the stats?
Never mind.

>>49466073

Hey, if you gave me 5 points for including Nayl I'd at least consider him a toss up.

>>49466710
With the exception of a couple casters Troll warlocks maintain they're aggressively average status. If anything the shitty part about Trolls now is their beasts and infantry. It's either one of the few amazing things or it's hot garbage.

>>49463588
>And it's 0 too many!

>>49466369
Why not? Do you often disassemble your models?

>>49465982
>it took them over a month to arrive at this conclusion
Should't they have a better idea of how their own rules work? Especially with "3 years" of playtesting?

>>49466320

>ekrueger took several indirect nerfs

And got fucking rebuke to make up for it.

>>49467595
Sure, but he can no longer stay nice and safe in the back line until he wants to come super far forward to feat on you, and with his feat no longer denying charges, he can't just cripple your whole army with no real recourse.

He also lost druids.

I hope a cryx player or two does well at the WTC this weekend so i can decide what the hell to play.

Just got my Sovereign Durant today. What does i need to run him properly but tons of Jacks and maybe Flamebringers?

>>49466047
>How do you even make that viable as it is now without changing the stats?

Agonizer +2 arm, enrage +2 str, xekaar-mortality -2 def/arm to enemy, Despoiler-dark shroud -2 arm to enemy....

Notice though that using anything else besides the rhinodon works pretty much better. It's obvious that no serious thought was put into it's MK.III incarnation, actually that's wrong to say, it went from a near useless warbeast in Mk.II to utter garbage for MK.III. They went out of their way to nerf something that was already in the bottom of the barrel for skonre.

>>49467861
>They nerfed the bottom of the barrel in the faction that was the bottom of the barrel
Woah. It's like the Rhinodon is a test to see just how bad a model can get. The first big update for Mk3 will give it 0.5" RNG.

>>49467917
>>49467861
It's about their belief that every faction needs a budget heavy, the idea that they must have a bare bones, budget warbeast.

Budget heavies work for Warmachine now, because the heavies are self supplying.

But Focus requires a balance, and there's just no reason to take a cheap heavy that doesn't do as much.

The thing needs a niche. If, for example, it was harder to kill, I think it would be more suitable as a cheap objective holder.

>>49458383
In reality dual-wielding is very rare. Offhand is usually a parry "weapon" or a shield (though you can of course still attack with offhand).

Samurai would have two weapons due to length. One sword was shorter for indoor fighting and the other was for outdoor fighting. (they might also have a dagger, and samurai where more horse archerers anyway. but I assume we are talking about katana and wakazashi.)

>>49467997
Budget heavy warjacks work because they're fucking MAT7 and PS19, not MAT6 and PS15.

>>49467997
>The thing needs a niche.

Completely agree. It lost it's niche as a somewhat decent anti infantry heavy to become absolutely nothing. The Gladiator is still a better budget heavy. They very least they could have done was give it more hit boxes so it'd at least be tempting to use as bait to real in the enemy for counter attacking and so it's animus might actually do some worthwhile damage. More hit boxes would also make it a useful for dmg transfer for a warlock that wants to get stuck in (which is thematically what skorne should be doing).

>>49467861

>Agonizer +2 arm, enrage +2 str, xekaar-mortality -2 def/arm to enemy, Despoiler-dark shroud -2 arm to enemy....

Does it have synergy with anything in particular?

I know building around a single War Beast is likely a bad investment of time, but I enjoy a challenge.

>>49468278
No.

About the best use of it I can see is spamming it with Naaresh to take advantage of his feat.

>>49468368
NAARESH FEAT TIER LIST

>Top tier
A normal list full of titans

>Mid tier
A cyclops memelist

>Shit tier
Rhinodons

>>49468388
Where do archidons fit in that?

>>49468435
Shut up.

SHUT UP.

>>49468388
It is worth saying that Naaresh loves himself some Despoiler.

>>49468435
Monsterpocalypse Leftovers tier

>>49468546
No he doesn't. The bubbles stacking is irrelevant for a few reasons.

>1)
You'll die trying to catch things in the bubbles, and even if you do it's likely not that big of a deal. Naaresh's own bubble only works because he doesn't have to pay to upkeep it

>2)
Naaresh should be on a control point during your opponent's turn

Despoiler outside Mordikaar is just weird considering the massive power of Void Spirits now.

>>49456669
>enter thread
>Skorne bitching from second post onward

Is /tg/ finally worse than the official forums?

On a better note, who do you think is the most imrproved caster of MK3? Who got their nuts removed the hardest? Who is the most fun to play?

>>49467724
Man, it must suck to be you.

>>49468597

Hey it might be coming back.

>>49468675
shit forgot link
http://variety.com/2016/film/news/monsterpocalypse-movie-warner-bros-1201765543/

>>49468662
I'll give you the non-salty answers for Skorne.

>who do you think is the most imrproved caster of MK3?
Morghoul1. More jacks means a more relevant feat, and a more relevant damage pump from Abuse. Gaining Steady also got rid of his biggest weakness. I'm very sad that he lost the ability to murder an entire unit on his own though.
>Who got their nuts removed the hardest?
Makeda1. They took a mid tier caster, gutted her spell list, kicked her spell slave in the balls, fisted her character beast, then blew such a hole in her feat that for weeks people thought all placed models had to sacrifice their action.

So how are the Skorne Catapults now if you're looking to build a gunline?

>>49468653
Double Bubble works on warbeasts now, so you basically remove their ability to cast their own animi, which is a big fucking deal.

Despoiler also hits pretty hard with Naaresh as well.

>>49468730
Animi got an all round nerf this edition anyway. And a lot of the time you want to cast them with your warlock so that your beasts can go max out killing something. There's also redundancy between Naaresh, who gets free upkeeps, and Black Arts, which lets you upkeep for free. His damage output is a little over a Gladiator, but when is an enemy beast ever going to be within 10" of Despoiler? If an enemy beast is within 10", it's probably going to kill you, and he's not the most survivable thing. You're paying 4 points for a questionable animus just because it can theoretically work with Naaresh's own. Like nigger just bring a solo or something.

>Hurr this beast hits pretty hard if you give it an extra +3STR

>>49468860
Lot of animi went to self, man.

Not so easy for the warlock to put them out.

>>49468931
>Lot of animi went to self
Those tend to be on beasts you now no longer field, or aren't going to be within 10" of Despoiler. Within Skorne you have Rush, which the Gladiator going in will NEVER cast, and Snipe, which will NEVER be in your range. In my games against other factions it's been a similar deal; the beasts at the back use animi, the ones coming forward are too busy trying to kill me.

Gladiator + Void Spirit/Master Tormentor, Cannoneer + Bellows Crew + Chef, Bronzeback, Aradus Soldier, Nihilators + Soulward, Agonizer + Krea + Void Spirit/Master Tormentor. There's so many better ways to spend 18 points.

>>49465837
Trolls are a better fit for counterpunch than Skorne and even have support for that tactics pigeonholing Skorne more.

What's the point of Darragh Wrathe's Death Ride now that it only works with advancing and not running or charging?

>>49469143
Trolls are about attrition, rather than counter punch.

Trolls focus more on self buffing and simply being tough rather than actually benefiting from the opponent attacking them.

They get a counter punch vibe by the nature of their attrition focus, but nothing they use is really dependent on the opponent hitting them first to do work.

http://conflictchamber.com/#b91bfk5D4C4y5Rft5Rft6u6u6H6u6a

Skorne Army - 75 / 75 points

(Zaal 2) Zaal, the Ancestral Advocate [+29]
- Titan Cannoneer [17]
- Cyclops Shaman [8]
- Cyclops Brute [8]
Immortals (max) [15]
- Extoller Advocate [4]
Immortals (max) [15]
- Extoller Advocate [4]
Ancestral Guardian [5]
Ancestral Guardian [5]
Ancestral Guardian [5]
Hakaar the Destroyer [7]
Praetorian Karax (max) [11]

Should I drop one of the cyclopses to try to get an agonizer?

>>49468662
Gaspy2 is a sad man

>>49460315
December bruh.

Honestly I wouldn't think Skorne was that bad if they didn't nerf all our defensive stats. Titans reduced to def 10, basilisks to arm 14, cetrati def, cyclops arm 16. Why?

>>49460315
December at the earliest, but probably more a January thing.

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>>49469320
It's a good thing that mkii trolls didn't have Borka2 and Doomy 3 feat, not to mention hero's tragedy or battle driven.

It's a damn good thing that they gave us retaliatory strike and still kept the chronicler since we aren't counter punch the faction.

Thanks for ruining P Madrak PP, Really appreciate it.

>>49470311
Every faction has some overlap, of course.

But you've got a few casters and a few abilities.

Look at Skorne. Practically all of their shit is geared around getting hit first, and the stuff that wasn't generally got nerfed pretty damn hard.

>>49470008

>Titans reduced to def 10, basilisks to arm 14, cetrati def, cyclops arm 16. Why?

Is all of that really crippling to the way Skorne operate on the table though?

>>49470311
Fucking trolls

>Borka2 beast brick/combined arms
>Calandra infantry/minions brick
>Grissel2 MMM
>Doomy3 beast brick
>Ragnor Beast brick/Combined Arms/Infantry brick
>Madrak2 MMM

Pretty much half of trolls competitive pairings are some form of reactionary list now. Tons of access to Reposition on models with Vengeance or Unyielding base as well. And warders, ksb, ssc, are still things that can bolster trolls resilience.

>>49468662
> complains about Skorne bitching
>doesn't bring up anything new to talk about

Honestly the skorne salt is probably the only thing keeping these threads alive atm. That and whoever that ex-employee is that keeps dishing out all the dirty laundry at PP.

How are people finding the change to over boosted armor on warcasters?

Also wtf were they smoking when they gave Behemoth boosted dmg to everything under it's pie plate?

>>49470455
Well considering they lost their arm buff aura from the Krea, its kinda cut down on their resilience to gunlines a decent amount.

Players are trying to mitigate this by focusing on lists that either
>contain multiple layers of speed buffs to alpha
>gunline back
>spam what shooting resilient beasts Skorne has

And its not exactly showing great success.

>>49470455
Everything became easier to kill for a faction that's designed to walk up and punch the opponent. That's PoM/Khador levels of def with lower hitboxes and in some cases lower armor. A lot of Khador Jacks seem to have MAT 7-8 too, even their bargin bin Juggernaut.

>>49470518

Do Skorne not have the tools to make a decent gunline?

They had a lot of range options the last time I checked.

>>49470780
Lost a lot of their ranged game in the transition to Mk3.

>>49470780
Its decent for Skorne. A number of their ranged options (ie. Cannoneers, Slingers) got buffed, some got nerfed (ie. Incindiarii, Aradus Sentinel) but they are also waiting on releases and don't really have a dedicated gunline caster so mostly opt for Hexeris2/Rasheth.

Thing is, pretty much everyone else gunlines better.

>>49470855
You can't make a gunline out of slingers. Rat 5 rng 10 pow 10s are not a gunline. Slingers are a support piece.

>>49470979

>Slingers are a support piece.

I always thought they were for lobbing shots over the heads of Cataphracts or Warbeasts myself.

>>49470780
Decent options, but across the board worse than any other option that performs the same function - Less power, less range, fewer tools, etc.

Their best ranged options are one-offs on beasts or big pieces, or are support pieces like Slingers that do not a gunline make.

>>49470979
I didn't say you made a gunline out of them, just that they were a ranged option who received buffs.

>>49470507
>ignoring the second half of the post

I'm starting Cygnar and already play Khador so I don't want to run units that don't have cool electoweapons or fire mahic bullets because my main faction has that covered.

How viable is this?

>>49471387
Pretty decent. Lot of the stuff got buffs, like the BE and several of the jacks, and the new Colossal, when it hits, gives you a great centerpiece model for it.

http://conflictchamber.com/#b31b767l7l7l7x8d8t7O8y8n7S7W7-86

Khador Army - 75 / 75 points

(Vladimir 1) Vladimir Tzepesci, The Dark Prince [+28]
- Berserker [8]
- Berserker [8]
- Berserker [8]
- Drago [14]
Kossite Woodsmen (max) [11]
Kovnik Jozef Grigorovich [4]
Man-O-War Demolition Corps (max) [15]
Yuri the Axe [6]
Manhunter [4]
Winter Guard Infantry (max) [11]
- Winter Guard Rocketeer (3) [6]
Winter Guard Mortar Crew [5]
Battle Mechaniks (min) [3]


Taking this to my next narrative league match because fuck it. I got Coward for Holden. We have it so that Holden is free instead of being 4 points. Putting him with kossites ambushing is funny to me and I'm taking a lot of generally bad models but S&P is strong enough to make it work anyway.

>>49471632
S&P won't speed up the Demo Core, hitting things isn't their issue.

Take them out and put in a Rager and second Manhunter.

>>49471745
I've only got one manhunter, and my rager kit is one of the berserkers.

I could replace them with pikemen maybe.

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>>49470507

>overboosting

iv played a few games since iv been back in and im still getting used to it, its not really superbad change in truth I just need to get used to it a bit more, I cant camp and hide in the backline and I get the idea behind it really get rid of the arm bonus to stop stalemates on unkillable casters like terminus in favor of more proactive play but at least right now paradoxically im playing more conservative then before, but that's probably just because im getting used to it. basically the survivability's been nerfed with not much to really show for it since anything that can really kill you is going to tear through the overboost.it might be good against a lucky and/or stray shot but even then I think id rather take the armor boost especially on fragile casters like denny 1 and 2.

that said Id like to see what I could do with skarre now once I get her unless theres some rule im missing that prevents these sorts of shenagins

>>49470474
>Calandra infantry/minions brick
So Calandra is a total monster but you can't run the minions list anymore sadly. All her shenanigans are friendly faction now so the only reason to run minions is for Star Crossed.

That's pretty cool but usually worth taking over regular Troll units like Champs and Fire Eaters.

>>49471387

Play the nemos with plenty of electric stuff and Jack heavy. pretty viable now

>>49470507

>dirty laundry

Someone repost the TL;dr, is their drama over Mk3 sputtering out?

>>49471387
the only storm knights and gun mages worth considering are the cavalry and solos. storm blades, storm guard, and regular gun mages are all shit.

pretty much every cygnar caster runs storm lances because theyre the best unit in the faction by a wide margin

blazers work decently well, but really want a buff of some kind to help them capitalize on their great mobility. snipe is huge on them.

the firefly is pretty common because it gives a boostable chain lightning gun on a durable chassis that also lets storm lances shooting and electroleaps do more damage

the stormclad is still cygnars premier beatstick, and now can get its free focus from stormlances

dynamo is really good with nemo or kraye, but suffers a bit otherwise

thunderhead isnt very good because his lightning purge doesnt have the targets it used to

the hurricane will probably be great when it comes out

>>49472869
Stormblades with the officer seem fine to me, idk. Storm lances are obviously better but also more expensive.

>>49472823
He worked at PP, I think in the warehouse, he had ideas on stuff that should be changed that higher ups didn't agree with, and entrenched managment not listening to him is why everything at PP sucks, from the rules to the models.

>>49472077
Interesting, I would think that it'd still make things difficult to kill a warcaster as it's essentially 5+ arm, just one use at a time, so one would have to rely on multiple hits or as said, something hitting uber hard.

>>49472823
Apparently management is full of personalities that are incompetent and don't get along. They turned down a Fallout game license b/c management couldn't get their act together to fit it in, and people will intentionally sabotage others out of pure spite, supposedly (ex: some didn't agree with the MK.II changes to the skorne animantarax making its shooting stronger, so changes were put in last minute before printing, under the radar). Also something like employees have limited access to their storage park b/c some people jacked a bunch LCD's and such from the storage center. Pretty interesting insights, but some pretty toxic posts too, you could tell the guy had a huge axe to grind.

>>49467182
Because it literally melts your models.

>>49467997
>Budget heavies work for Warmachine now, because the heavies are self supplying.
Also because they have good stats. I mean compare the Rhinodon to the Ironclad for a second. It's fucking ridiculous. And that's not even comparing it with the superior Juggernaut. Or the Crusader that is 2 points cheaper. And in a faction that has fucking Mobility and fucking Synergy on the fucking same fucking caster. How can one fucking design team be so fucking incompetent. FUCK.

>>49468730
>teching against hordes (outside of Wormwood)
Don't do that.

>>49468662
This thread? Worse than the PPIDF? I don't think so.

>>49469352
Drop all of that more like.

>>49470455
Not really. Our casters getting fucked up the ass and the Krea basically being removed from the game fucked up the faction.

>>49470780
We do have ranged options. It's just that they're worse than almost any other faction's ranged options. But the same goes for melee options so what the fuck do I know.

>>49466618
One Gladiator was ALWAYS mandatory. Most of my lists contain 2+ now. They are grunts, the Bronzeback is the unit leader.

>>49470455
Titans and Cetrati got cheaper, so I can SORT of get behind their DEF nerfs considering the Agonizer now has a +2ARM bubble. The Savage change though, holy shit my god that model is completely unplayable now. Try fielding a Savage; it's fucking Rhinodon tier. PP still haven't realised that Future Sight is a really fucking bad ability. If you want to represent the Savage being able to see into the future on its card, give it MAT8. And why does an 8 foot tall beast with a sword that's bigger than most grunts only have +1PS over a Nihilator?

>>49474075

The agonizer is not am arm buff, it's a debuff aura. The enemy needs to be in range for it to take effect. Skorne is now expected to take a 7 point model with low survivability to get our beasts back up to their original armor. After they also lost 2 DEF because Soles decided Titans being worse at dodging than an ironclad "just feels right."

To say nothing of also losing some fury and access to free charges. They just piled downgrades on the titans, when other core heavy beasts either largely stayed the same or were improved (because ravagores needed buffs so badly).

All that to compensate for sidegraded beast handlers and agonizers?

>>49474221
>The agonizer is not am arm buff, it's a debuff aura
Whatever nigger, the effect is the same.

>>49474511
No, not even close, do you even know how this game works?

The Agonizer will just fucking die half the time unless you surround it with shield guards, and it's bubble restricts your positioning.

>>49472869
A lot of Cygnar infantry will become usable once guns are toned down a bit. Except for precursors. They're just irredeemable shit.

>>49474556
>The Agonizer will just fucking die half the time unless you surround it with shield guards, and it's bubble restricts your positioning.
And it does jack against guns.

>>49470507
>Also wtf were they smoking when they gave Behemoth boosted dmg to everything under it's pie plate?

That it's the most expensive non-colossal warjack in the game and is only as durable as a normal juggernaut chassis so it had better have some good stuff on it.

>>49474684
>guns toned down

Literally the only way this will happen is if PP put in more strict scenery requierments. Hungerford said the staff games had 8 terrain objects but loads of people play with the bare minimum of 6 small bits and shunt it all out to the edges so they're facing off over a flat empty plane.

>>49474758
This again? Terrain doesn't help against guns and never will.

>>49474766
Case in point

>>49474693
>And it does jack against guns
That's why you stand it behind your Soldier.

>>49474771
No, not case in point. Terrain slows down melee lists unless they are universally ghostly/incorporeal. Terrain provides minimal buffs against range ("oh you go up to DEF16, that's cute, I have >70% hit chance against that"). Only LoS blocking terrain benefits melee lists and that only marginally. Shit is fucked. We need some balance and not int he form of PP telling us "well maybe if you used more terrain..". WE ARE USING A FUCKING BUTTLOAD OF TERRAIN. IT DOESN'T DO SHIT.

>>49474771
The problem with terrain vs guns is that unless you set it up so that it prevents ALL SHOOTING FOREVER it won't matter enough of the time to be reliable, and if you do that it just swings the pendulum too far back the other way. And even if you do it still buttfucks armies that aren't tailored specifically to mitigate the massive terrain splooge.

>>49474793
>Only LoS blocking terrain benefits melee lists and that only marginally
MAYBE BECAUSE YOU PUT ALL THE FORESTS OFF TO ONE SIDE OF THE BOARD WHERE IT HAD NO IMPACT ON THE GAME

>>49474793
So since RAT 10 and boosted RAT 7 is so common in your meta, whats your solution.

>>49474826
You mean dead center? I guess that counts as "to one side" in some otherworldly geometry.

>>49474836
To not play melee lists.

>>49474841
There was a forest in the middle of the board and you STILL got wiped off the table? Just how fucking bad at this are you?

>>49474851
>hurr u bad
Okay.

>>49474851
I'm thinking he bunched his army up behind the forest than ran into it without Pathfinder

>>49473733
It melts the parts that you want stuck together.

>>49467724
Cryx will get assrailed. Mk 3 caters to the one thing Cryx can't git gud at: gunlines. PP crushed Skorne's balls, but they flat-out took two cinderblocks and pancaked Cryx's between them, then danced on top of them while humming a Trisquit commercial jingle.

>>49474863
>>49474851
It's amazing how much you know about the games I play. Some crazy stuff there.

>>49474938
Well. When someone claims that most models trivially reach RAT 10 and thinks that every model in the game ignores LoS its pretty easy to assume some things about him.

>>49475012
Except I said neither of those. But just keep on assuming anythign you like. I can't stop your imagination.

>>49474934
The team format allows Cryx to dodge it's really bad matchups. That's a pretty standard tactic in 5-man team tourneys.

>>49467724
However, you need to take any Cryx successes with a grain of salt for the same reason. A successful WTC list pair does not always translate to a successful general purpose list pair, because it's entirely possible the lists were built with the knowledge that they'd never have to play into Cygnar or Ret.

>>49474726
>most expensive non-colossal
Are you trying to say it's over costed? There are several things that are in the 20+ pt range. It's already being called an auto-include in the Khador boards, you know what Skorne get for 22pts a character Shield-guard, whoopee!

>durable as a normal juggernaut chassis
Are you trying to say that a full 36 hit boxes and ARM 20 is bad? Cuz you know most jacks/beasts fall short of that, you know that right?

>better have some good stuff on it
I guess MAT 7 with repeatable armor pierce aren't good things (did you know most other instances of arm pierce are one shots only), which was also changed to also apply to small based models (i.e. every warcaster/warlock is now vulnerable). I get its supposed to be scary, but making one of the most dangerous things to be in melee with, and making it's shooting idiot-proof seems a tad much. With just 2 focus it's out-shooting everything in the Khador line up, which can't be good for internal balance. It's focus efficient on top of everything, you just need to sacrifice one focus form your warcaster for it to do maximum shooting damage for most of the game.

>>49475076
Tiberion has 21ARM, huge damage, steady, immovable, and like 40 boxes.

>>49475090
He has 30-33 boxes, but other than that you are correct. He is good. I'd say he is 20p good and could certainly be costed that way but at 22p he's still okay.

>>49475090
-32 boxes, kinda off by a big margin there buddy
-P+S 18, the same as Khadors bargain bin juggernaut. Fury 4 sure, but he kinda needs something right?
-21 ARM, a point over the bargain bin juggernaut, awesome

And yea I guess steady/immovable is pretty awesome, its totally up there with spending one focus for boost both the to hit and all to damage rolls under the AoE (with 14" range and arcing fire).

>>49475076
>buttblasted skorne whining

People are already realising that Behemoth isn't the be-all-and-end-all. For his cost you get 2 juggernauts and sometimes that's preferable.

I'm not saying his durability is bad, but for his points he's fragile as fuck. See above comparison with 2 juggernaurs which get more attacks and nearly double the boxes and more scenario pressure.

And lastly, if you had ANY experience actually USING Behemoth instead of sitting across from your opponent crying like a bitch about MUH TITANS, you'd know that Behemoth can either shoot OR melee in a game. Trying to get him to do both is a waste of resources. Playing with the aim of shooting as you advance into melee means he's slow as fuck because he's moving a massive 4" a turn and not aiming. If you want him to melee you need to run so you can't shoot.

So you can have an awesome melee jack or an awesome ranged jack or a jack that is really mediocre at both.

Something that's been concerning me about mk3 is the power and balance between ranged and melee combat. While I like the ability to premeasure, some melee-focused units losing stealth and having their DEF decreased and ranged units always being able to position themselves at their maximum range (while before they may have needed to move closer in case the distance was judged incorrectly) means that in my local area I'm usually only seeing ranged infantry with 10-14" guns, jacks with ranged weapons, and it's easy to be shot off the board if you're taking mostly melee units. What I blame most for this is the aiming bonus, it's bad enough that a melee troop unit has to survive at least one or two rounds of shooting before it can finally attack without the ranged unit being able to stand still and get a greater chance to hit. It also is probably why certain units like the Menoth Redeemer are so powerful since thanks to its range, the inaccuracy of its weapon can be mitigated by the aiming bonus (and possibly someone like severius to improve its attack rolls)

My Agathia's creases are completely white, like the dye hasn't reached there. Has anyone else had a model that looks like this?

>>49475193
>he's fragile as fuck
You mean for 24pts hes not un-killable too? what a tragedy.

>can either shoot OR melee in a game
I must have missed the part where it states your have to choose one or the other before the game starts. Not like you can use range for early game, and melee for late game.

> to do both is a waste of resources
again, get's one free focus, and given just one more it gets to boost hits and ALL damage under the blast. that's both more powerful and more efficient then just about any other shooting in the Khador stable.

>you can have an awesome melee jack or an awesome ranged jack
Right, having something that can adapt to a changing situation is terrible. Being a melee focused or ranged focused jack/beast is always so much better.

To be fair, yes having 2 jacks instead of one has it's benefits. Not saying the Behemoth is fucking perfect, but honestly nothing really compares to it's abilities. Literally I don't think you see repeatable arm pierce on anything else, not to mention it's ranged buff.

>>49469266
Running and Charging are advancing. Advancing is any voluntary movement the model makes that isn't a place effect. Not to be confused with a Full Advance, which is simply moving your your SPD.

>>49475374
>You mean for 24pts hes not un-killable too? what a tragedy

You're acting like I'm complaining about that. I'm not. It's a major reason for why he's more balanced than you want to believe. Any other melee heavy in the game can kill him or cripple him to the point of uselessness if it gets the alpha. And considering he's also Spd 4 that isn't difficult.

>I must have missed the part where it states your have to choose one or the other before the game starts. Not like you can use range for early game, and melee for late game.

Literally my whole post was about how using him as both in one game makes him crappy. Maybe your skorne tears are making it hard to read. You need to have a plan in mind with him otherwise 1/4 of your army is underpreforming.

Nothing compares to Behemoth because it's in unique roll as a halfway point between a colossal and a heavy.

Considering he costs 25% of your army points his shooting and melee BETTER be good because otherwise theres no reason to take him.

Yea you go in with a plan, but your underestimating the utility to do both things, and both really well. A melee jack/beast with nothing close by to punch is also underperforming by your logic. Beheamoth can immideatly starts shooting the crap out if targets of opportunity once it's done scrapping something in melee, a juggernaught on the other hand is left to trod off towards the next optimal target, which probably isn't going to be massed infantry or fast moving models.

Arm pierce is also a huge deterrent/ counter-punch, controlling where the opponent moves their most valuable assets. Some casters/locks might easily take out heavies, but I don't think many would take the risk of possibly eating an armor pierce punch in the next round.

>>49475661
Except I'm not underestimating it because when I started playong Mk3.I was using him as a ranged and melee option and he was really unimpressive.

When I started dedicating him to either a melee or ranged role and sticking to it for the length of the game he became much better.

Now, he barely even makes my lists anymore because I find a juggernaut/Ruin/kodial far more versitile amd imposing.

>>49474511

*actual facepalm*

>>49473972

>But the same goes for melee options so what the fuck do I know.

Can you build a Skorne list somewhere between melee and gunline with any degree of effectiveness?

Or should it be one or the other, but never both?


>>49474040

How would a Bronze Back, two Gladiators and a Sentry do as a battlegroup now?

>>49476814
Skorne lists - as many other list - are best when combining ranged and melee elements. Their "good stuff" lists are okay, but generally do somethign other factions do way better.


>How would a Bronze Back, two Gladiators and a Sentry do as a battlegroup now?
Gladiators are always great. Bronzebacks now serve no real purpose. The Sentry is okay, but in my experience underperforms. Cannoneers are worthy of consideration.

>>49476870

>Cannoneers are worthy of consideration.

Pair them up with the Ardus Sentinels and Extollers as before then?

>>49477071
Extollers yes, if you have the points to spare. Sentinels are pure shit.

>>49470221
I wish it was more frequent. 9th Age is every 3 months

>>49477105

What might be a good idea for infantry to support the Warbeasts since Cataphracts have taken a nerf?

I was looking at two full units of Karax, a Tyrant and Standard (or two), and Slingers, though I'm not impartial to trying Reivers.

>>49477484
Karax and Reivers. A single Tycom might be okay, but Saxon Orik does basically the same for 2p less.

>>49477105

Is the Raider still useful for boosting range?

>>49477725
Snipe is target:self. So, not really unless you are Zaal1 or Mordikaar. And even then the Cannoneer is just straight up better.

>>49477725
No. In my3 both the raider and Cannoneer have farstrike, but it was made Range: Self.

For what you get out of each, the raider can't really compete with the cannoneer. The extra survivability, range, damage, and melee potential make the cannoneer win out nearly every time.

>>49477725
>>49477809
Sorry, i meant Farstrike is target:self.

>>49475511
Why can't Deathjack and Typhon be as good?

>>49477873
Mk2 Deathjack kinda was, the value of his self-fueling antics just lost value due to Power Up and his Necromancy got hit by the same debilitating nerf-bat that obliterated Spell Slave.

How exactly isn't Asphyxious the Hellbringer the best Cryx caster?

>Field Marshal [Unyielding]
>Mobility
>Cloak of Ash
>Calamity
>collects all the souls

>>49478052
Because Cryx players are retarded

>>49477873
Because Cryx and Legion were OP in Mk2 and deserved it. Also isn't Typhon basically an auto-include in most Legion lists. And doesn't Deathjack get like 3 focus just for being alive?

>>49478052
I'm not sure who is arguing he isn't one of the best Cryx casters. Denny1 might still be a little better but she's boring

>>49477873
Typhon is quite good if you ask me. And with Thagrosh it can be quite hilarious.
With 3 initial attack, Fury 5, higher than average MAT and high P+S he can absolutely destroy any heavy with impunity, and Thagh can further improve his killing prowess with Draconic Blessing.
Regeneration and excessive healing compensate for the underwhelming defensive stats and can make him hard to kill and ideal to feat back to life.
All in all he's quite good at what he does.

>>49465866

So you want to charge the Siege Animantarax at things now?

>>49478488
We don't. Soles does.

>>49478705

For the purpose of gaining a token from being hit, is it advisable to run it by things that can take a free strike at it on it's way to it's target?

>>49478900
You can whip it for tokens, so it should be maxed before it goes in

>>49473240
>you could tell the guy had a huge axe to grind.

That's pretty common among ex-PP staff.

>>49473021
>he had ideas on stuff that should be changed that higher ups didn't agree with, and entrenched managment not listening to him is why everything at PP sucks, from the rules to the models.

They weren't "his" ideas. He wasn't talking about himself, he was just dishing out dirt about the company, management and other staff in general.

It's easy to dismiss people that complain and paint them as liars or that they exaggerate things due to anger, but I've worked with a lot of ex-PP staff over the years and none of them have ever had anything good to say about their time at PP.

Most said going to work for them was a lousy career move and they are glad they got out.

>>49479189

And I thought Catalyst Games Labs and Games Workshop were bad.

>>49479189

I should also add, since we tend to compare GW and PP a lot, that many staff I know that worked for GW have similar issues, some say bad things some say good things, but all of them think their experience at GW was a good one and benefited their careers.

I thinks that because GW is such a large company. There are more "checks&balances" that protect staff and departments.

Not so at PP. They are a very small company, less than 70-ish staff, so managers wield a large amount of power and influence that can effect other departments.

I think that, more than anything else, is what causes ex-PP staff to be so disgruntled because issues at PP can become more personal and vindictive.

>>49476814
>How would a Bronze Back, two Gladiators and a Sentry do as a battlegroup now?

Here's my two cents about titans right now, as someone who's played this game a half decent amount casually.
>Gladiator
Your bread and butter. Every list needs at least one, and spamming them is never a bad thing.
>Sentry
Pretty underwhelming. Sure it's tough but it can't really dish out the damage like a Gladiator can, which is half of why you bring a titan. The alternative is:
>Tiberion
He's a sentry that can actually kill things. Very expensive, but very hard to get off an objective.
>Cannoneer
Excellent ranged beast. I run one in every list.
>Bronzeback
If I'm planning on using 4+ titans, I always bring a Bronzeback. The fury management alone is worth it, but then there's the punching power. Not really worth it in smaller herds though honestly.

Here's my most beast-filled list for your contemplation. I'm quite happy with the list, if you're wondering. Does an admirable job of the control game.

>(Naaresh 1) Master Ascetic Naaresh [+32]
- Bronzeback Titan [18]
- Titan Cannoneer [17]
- Titan Gladiator [14]
- Titan Gladiator [14]
- Aradus Soldier [18]
- Agonizer [7]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (min) [5]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (min) [5]
Paingiver Bloodrunner Master Tormentor [4]
Orin Midwinter, Rogue Inquisitor [5]

Infantry either bounces off the elephants or gets whittled down by the Cannoneer, Tormentor, and Orin. Or you can stand the Soldier in the middle of a blob and claw everything to death.

>>49479296
PP sounds like a company filled with women.

>>49479481

Egotistical manbabies, so pretty close

>>49479481
>>49479512

Cronyism sounds like the larger issue.

File: tumblro04ga9PtWf1r9zmt8o1500.jpg (21KB, 500x325px) Image search: [Google]

21KB, 500x325px

>>49479481

>>49478052
I probably play him the most in mkiii. I just wish he gave himself unyielding. Want themes to come out so I can get DW for free already.

I feel that Spell Slave should have some kind of statement that makes spells that reference control areas use the warcaster/warlock's control area. Would that fix it enough?

>>49480797
Theme lists were a mistake

>>49481075
so were you, but your parents made the best of it. :p

>>49481574
Unlike PP

Anyone else just watch the WTC test stream? The epic memesters think Wurmwood and Madrak2 will have the best winrates. It's literally going to be Morghoul1.

>>49481062
I just dont know why they changed it at all.

>>49482333
I think it was Cryx's fault. Then Skorne got caught in the blast radius.

>>49479481
If you'd have read page 5 of the employee handbook you'd see that this is a company for MEN so if you don't want to see your precious work shat all over by a higher up maybe you should work somewhere else.

Has MK3 changed anything as far as running a Seaforge-Rhulic army goes?

>>49478900
Whip it yourself for tokens, then heal it up thanks to the Beast rule. Then have it go on its merry way with +3 SPD.

>>49482690
>Cryx getting blamed because everyone else just sucks despite having better 'jacks, better guns, and fluff they don't deserve

Makes sense, thanks PP (you fucks)

>>49482839
>Has MK3 changed anything as far as running a Seaforge-Rhulic army goes?

You're not locked into a contract anymore, so outside of the battlegroup, most things that say Mercenary on the card are friendly faction and fair game.

You want Idrians? You want Kazayzay? You want Alexia? You want Wrong Eye and Snapjaw? All on the table.

>>49482914
It might not make sense that they changed spell slave, ("We wanted to make it simpler for new players, so now you have to check four different things instead of two"), but it definitely seems they did it with Cryx in mind and not Skorne or Trollbloods.

>>49483031
I mean on the bright side, Skorne probably wouldn't run Marketh now anyway since Makeda1's spell list got nerfed to all shit. It's not like I wanted to cycle Defender's Ward and Savagery on my Cetrati anyway, right?

>>49479404
Double Sentry + Tiberion + Gladiator is a very strong BG on Naaresh right now. Toss in an Agonizer, and maybe Despoiler depending on how you want to do infantry/solos.

>>49483096

What's Marketh good for now anyway?

>>49483252
Toss out Eliminators for Makeda3, casting Mortality for Xekaar etc.

>>49483252
Actually nothing. He got nerfed really fucking hard and went from 3 to 6 points. Skorne has little to no spells worth casting now, especially not when most offensive spell are only 10" cast. If Marketh hits with a spell, he'll most likely die for it.

Hi. Potential new player here. Malifaux and GuildBall are basically dead where i live. I was trying to stick to the cheaper skirmish games but nobody plays them. Guess i might as well buy into Warmachine. What's an expected average buy-in to be able to field a (75 point i think?) tournament army? Like $250-300? I understand it varies from faction to faction but i'm looking for a ballpark.

Also, please point me to the right faction to play. I'm thinking... Menoth?

>>49483252

Fuck. All.

>(He's good for being an Abuse-bot.)

>>49483946
Depends on the faction. Factions with good infantry (Khador, Ret) generally cost more because infantry costs more per point than warnouns. Skorne is pretty cheap just because Gladiators are relatively cheap and spammable.

>TItan Gladiator (14 points)
£18.66

>Nihilators (15 points)
£29.71

>>49483946
Listen to this guy >>49483968

You should start Skorne.

>>49483946
Don't listen to this guy >>49483968

You shouldn't start Skorne.

>>49484261
You're kind of making me want to start Skorne

>>49484356
Keep in mind, since people are dropping Skorne for more competitive factions for tournament play, people are willing to sell of their used Skorne stuff for peanuts.

>>49484482

Buy cryx instead. That's all just a misunderstanding.

While the devs REALLY DO have it in for skorne.

File: Kreoss1_Amon1_75.png (393KB, 799x797px) Image search: [Google]

393KB, 799x797px

Finalizing a tournament pairing for tomorrow.

Not entirely happy with the Kreoss1 side, but he's basically a drop into the few things that Amon doesn't like and hope for a hail mary assassination.

>>49484482
lol, did the bandwagon jumping uber competitive group ever collect skorne in the 1st place.

>>49485474
Shortly - very shortly - in Mk2 after Pavel Bednar pioneered the Fist of Halaak featuring Incindiarrii.

>>49485474
No, they were never great. A victim of never living up to what they were back in the rpg days.

>>49485474
You're not looking at the fotm jumpers selling off their Skorne, these are die hard Skorne for life guys who give up and the guys that collect like 7 factions selling the chaff to buy new models for the ones that actually improved.

>>49485077
Are you in Seattle area by any chance? I too am going to a tourney.

I think you might be going bit too ham with the assassination. Beyond feat pop and drop, do you have a game plan?

>>49486696
Not in Seattle, sorry. May move there in a few years, but I won't be there tomorrow in any chance.

Going full ham on assassination is the idea behind the Kreoss list, as I'm planning to drop Amon into most matchups, and just go full bore assassination on matchups bad for him, *especially* killbox scenarios, which Amon doesn't really like, but a full bore assassination list does.

I think Large Based MOW will be cool. I've been saying PP should make those for years now.

How good is an all Bane list?

GORESHADE, LORD OF RUIN +27 wp
DEATHRIPPER 6
DEATHRIPPER 6
LEVIATHAN 16

BANE LORD TARTARUS 8

10 BANE WARRIORS 17
BANE WARRIOR OFFICER & STANDARD 6

10 BANE KNIGHTS 17
BANE WARRIOR OFFICER & STANDARD 6

5 BANE RIDERS 20

75 Total

>>49488483
Seems like a list that will do well for you

>>49488483
I think the UA is crap.

What happened to SKREEONK Anon?

Looks like the US is going to get BTFO the WTC again this year. 3 teams and 2 have already lost in the first round.

I thought you guys were supposed to be good at this game?

>>49478429
Can confirm.

I've seen Typhon kill two heavies under Thag1 with Draconic blessing and he still had enough fury left over to activate his healing thing.

>>49489625
Yeah, sorry, our skilled players all fielded Cryx and they're boycotting until PP gives us back what they stole from them, so we sent normies and plebs to WTC with bitch lists because we don't give a fuck.

>>49489748
>Our best players in Mk2 all played Cryx
What a coincidence, so do everyone's best players!

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>The games they're showing don't have Skorne in

>>49488186
What's the point of Karchev then?

>>49489748
>US teams are afraid they'll lose if they bring Cryx players
>US teams lose to players who aren't afraid to bring Cryx

JUSTICE.

>>49488483
Bane Knights can't take the officer and standard.

>Ragnor v Ossyan
>Turn 2 Ozzy feats and shoots Ragnor off the table
Woah... so this is... the power of Mk3...

>>49490218

Ossy has some truly insane lists. Ret Gunline's never been more brutal.

>>49490313
>Ossy has some truly insane lists
Lists? It was literally just Ozzy and one unit. The rest of the list just looked good.

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So how does Warmahordes justifies the fact that there is 1st world era tech existing at the same time as swords, shields, lots of melee combat, melee warjacks and whatever? I don't know anything about Warmahordes' lore though, so feel free to enlighten me.

I feel it's a cool setting and all, even if it doesn't make perfect sense. I just wanted to see if there is any justification for all the variances between factions and all.

>>49490615
The melee weapons generally have some kind of tech built in like Iron Fangs having explosive tips or storm blades having electric swords.

>>49490615
Wartime R&D causes massive spikes in weird areas of technology that one guy just happens to have a knack for as the peacetime restraints on research become looser. Hence why there's primitive shotguns and rifles at the same time as some factions use swords and slingshots.

If you mean steam powered machines and trains, fuck off.

>>49490615
The first world era tech is relatively new, prompted by the need to be liberated from a 400-year long domination by an invader race called the Orgoth that had pretty much conquered all of western Immoren except for Cryx and Ios. After the awakening of magic and the invention of the tech that led to colossals and warjacks, the Orgoth got chased off and/or wiped out (no one knows for sure) and the remaining lands drew up a bunch of borders and started adapting the new tech and magic to suit their agendas. Cryx ended up "inventing" their own version with a unique fuel source and stolen Orgoth magic they derived by necromancy, because Toruk rolls like that. So basically the state of things ever since the end of the Orgoth occupation has been these surviving leftover nations engaged in an arms race of magical and technological flux trying to get the upper hand on their neighbors for their various reasons, like religious domination or revenge for past wrongs or whatever.

>>49490615

Every guy with a sword or axe generally has a reason for using it over a gun.

Trollbloods don't have access to that sort of tech as easily, and they can use regular axes and swords in combat against better teched out factions because a gunshot won't always put them down for instance.

Can some salty skorne player explain Trevor Christensen's Makeda 2 list? I don't see what makes it a good list.

Is it really just as simple as it looks? Three arm 21 shield guards and a small unit of weapon masters? Just walk up the field, using shield guard and stay death to keep the Cetrati alive? I feel like it would either move slowly up the board and be too late to the party to matter, or run up the board and die to small arms fire. What lists is this thing supposed to fight?

>>49490648
>>49490650
>>49490664
>>49490709

Thanks everyone, that's much more clear now

>>49490715
Probably just designed for delivering Makeda for an assassination.

>>49490715
Looks like he just wants to camp the zones desu senpai. He's already stated that he thinks Sentries can't actually kill anything. So use your high ARM faggots to push people around and your Cetrati to deal the damage. Sentries will also do a nice job of protecting Cetrati from CRAs.

>>49490615

Armour also appears to be pretty useful. Historically speaking that's even true, it's just that armour on a large scale is very expensive. But something like say, a Sword Knight would be pretty well protected from musket balls.

Plus guns etc don't always work well against magic, and Jacks are easier to equip with sustainable melee weapons that make use of their great strength, rather than a cannon or gun that requires a complex cortex to operate, and runs out of ammo quickly in combat. Plus Warjacks have their origins in labour robots, so in a sense they're really developing off that.

The tech is very new. They mention that Cygnar's typical soldier in living memory, used to be a two man matchlock style team, with rifles amongst specialists. Plus a lot of the close combat style troops are either tough, have ranged weapons, or are very fast, 40k style. Storm blades, for instance, can shoot lightning, have the sheer close combat punch with their storm glaives to meaningfully threaten Jacks and other big magic doohickies, and their armour offers their formations good protection against a musket/rifle volley.

Cygnar's the only faction that's really into the tech thing as well, at least in the sense of steam power and rifles, etc. Everyone else is playing catchup with an anaemic economy (Khador), uses a different tech base entirely (Crxyx), is cobbling together skilled workers and parts out of desert scrap in a very new society (Menoth), or is only a fraction of the force of the society (Retribution).

In a way, think War of the Roses.

Don't think I've seen Retribution come up at all in these threads recently.

How are they in MkIII? What are the good/awful casters?

>>49491357
We got bored of talking about how much better they are than everyone else.

>Cheap WM infantry
>Best shooting in the game
>God tier colossal

>>49490615
Long story short:

The Iron Kingdoms used to be a stereotypical D&D fantasy setting, with swords and magic and all that jazz. Things were pretty typical fantasy ish, with no tech advancement at all.

Then the Ogoth showed up, and enslaved everyone. The Iron Kingdoms had to figure out technology pretty quick to have a chance at defeating them, because they were better fighters and had some pretty fucking nasty magic of their own.

That, combined with the arrival of arcane magic in humans, led them to finally defeat the Ogoth(A massive plague back in the homelands did a lot to help as well).

And now tech is advancing pretty damn quickly, far faster than tactics can effectively keep up.

>>49491357

They're outstanding. Invictors and particularly Sentinels are excellent, Archaists are stupidly good, and most of their jacks have been decent tricks, and solid stats, even if their MAT is a bit lacklustre.

>>49491372
So would you say a pair of Colossals would be feasible? What sort of support other than archaists would you be looking for? How does a single Colossal tend to fit into lists?

>>49491535
>A massive plague back in the homelands did a lot to help as well
Wasn't that actually the druids, though?

Also, why didn't Toruk fuck they all up? Their invasion corridor was right past his neck of the woods, and he was a massive naval and general power.

>>49491558
>Also, why didn't Toruk fuck they all up?

1) He don't give a fuck about the mainland.

2) He DID destroy an Orgoth fleet that was headed for the heart of the Scharde Isles. And the Cryxian armies destroyed their last stronghold at Drer Drakkerung on Garlghast Island after they had been driven from the mainland.

3) He supposedly wanted to take a wait and see approach with the Orgoth to see if they had anything Cryx could use (which they did, Cryx got their soul cage tech from the Orgoth). However, it's also somewhat implied this may not be entirely true and dragons are notoriously cowards when it comes to taking on anything that might pose an actual threat.

>>49491558
He tried and got his ass kicked, though he did inflict some pretty serious damage

>>49491735

I thought they noticed Toruk's islands, sent a fleet, that Toruk single handedly annihilated, and they never bothered him again.

>>49491668
Right, that figures. No sense in risking himself. That dragon in the recent fluff that killed a few Archangels and then ran for the hills kinda corroborates that.

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>>49492296
He "allowed" them.

>>49475511
Melee heavy? Hell, I've seen him go down to cavalry.

>>49492421
And got the best non-character solo in the game for his trouble.

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>>49492921

I always screw up when using the sirens and get them killed to quickly. How do you guys use them? do you keep them sorta paired with a jack in the back waiting to attack?

>>49493035
>Arrow pointing to her ass labeled "bare"
Lewd.

>>49492915
Exactly. Anything that can wreck a heavy can kill Behemoth and as such a quarter of your army.

Its a good counter-point to how destructive he can be.

Yeah behemoth's arm nerf is really major, 21 was on the right side of the damage curve to be way more durable than the extra point of armor would suggest.

>>49492921
Yea, and he had to wait until the mainland had done most of the work against them to actually mount an attack.

>>49493263
That 20-21 change is huge, yea.

Prime Axiom picked up POW21 instead of POW20, and that change in damage is a lot bigger than you'd think. It just eases out so much math.

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>>49493035
Yeah pretty much, use them to feed focus to jacks and look for Venom/shadowbind opportunities.

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>>49492921

I think War Witches are also one of the few flesh and blood Human units in Toruk's armies that also show up on the table top.

I feel like there's gif-art to be made with the theme of a jubilant dominar eyore being dragged along by a laboring gang of slaves while a salty madrak2 looks on in the dust with disgust.

>>49493907

Attridge and Ireland are as good as the East Coast meta gets; shows.

>tfw USA White's Skorne player is 1-2
>Round 1 he had to play a SKORNE gunline into Wurmwood
Thrown to the actual dogs.

Journeyman League question:

What's allowed in week 2? The rules say "Battlegroup only, no theme forces." So, only a jack/beast to add? Or can I add a warcaster attachment, like Khador's War Dog? I'm starting with Khador, so if it's only jacks, then I'll only be able to grab another Berzerker or a Mad Dog. Which is fine, just trying to find out more info.

>>49494396
Warcaster attachments like the War Dog are not part of the battlegroup, so you can't add that.

For Khador, the only things you can take Week 2 are Mad Dog, Berserker, or Marauder.

>>49494413
Local shop is doing a modified (12 week) Journeyman league, according to the EO, warcaster attachments can be taken. Does this guy just not know wtf he's talking about?

>>49494461
Well, if it's a modified league, then anything goes depending on how it's set up. Normally, though, caster attachments are not part of the battlegroup, they're just solos. The only things that are normally part of the battlegroup are the caster and other members of their unit if they're a caster unit, and any jacks the caster controls.

>>49494128
This is why you should disregard WTC results.

>>49491735
The Satyxis got their asses kicked; Toruk smoked them like they were nothing, then sat back and let them rape Immoren for funsies before deciding he wanted Garlghast back and all the fun toys the Orgoth played with for his own carnival of horrors. Bad luck for the Orgoth that their last stronghold was next to a guy that gives zero fucks if you self-destruct and blow up 3 Lich Lords and their attending army along with yourselves.

>>49494784

Enjoy these two days of skorne players the world over loving Cygnar and Ret gunlines, though.

So how is the Skorne Mammoth now?

>>49496102
OVER

HANG

Assuming this is still 75 points in MK3, how is this for a Rasheth list?

75/75

Dominar Rasheth
-Agonizer
-Basilisk Drake
-Basilisk Drake
-Bronzeback Titan
-Titan Canoneer
-Titan Gladiator
-Titan Gladiator
Paingiver Beast Handlers (Min)
Paingiver Beast Handlers (Min)
Tyrant Commander & Standard Bearer
Venators Reivers (Max)
Venators Slingers (Max)
Extoler Soulward
Mortitheurge Willbreaker

>>49497341
>-Agonizer
This thing is super sweet now.
>-Basilisk Drake
>-Basilisk Drake
These guys are pretty bad now. Infantry is less important in Mk3.
>-Bronzeback Titan
>-Titan Canoneer
>-Titan Gladiator
>-Titan Gladiator
Average herd.
>Paingiver Beast Handlers (Min)
>Paingiver Beast Handlers (Min)
I'd consider cutting one unit of Handlers. The Bronzeback now actually pulls fury off other titans rather than passing frenzy checks. And Rasheth can pull more fury than any other warlock.
>Tyrant Commander & Standard Bearer
This thing is actually sort of weak now.
>Venators Reivers (Max)
>Venators Slingers (Max)
I really don't rate the guns in Skorne despite the "buffs". For me there's only 3 units; your tarpit (Karax), your tarpit with teeth (Nihilators), and your Xerxis brick (Cetrati). Everything else will bounce off heavies without clogging the board effectively. I never understood the obsession with guns and Rasheth. I'm not sure if it was a Mk3 change but Carnivore just makes me wanna bring P+S14 Nihilators.
>Extoler Soulward
Sure.
>Mortitheurge Willbreaker
Honestly not that great. It never was. It can actually grant tough to a unit now which is fun.

The fat fuck himself was largely unchanged, so he's still good. His tier list filtered through to the entire faction, as titans got cheaper.

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ya know what, i miss the little text blurbs on the cards. They really don't add anything and taking them away doesn't really affect anything but I always liked them.

>>49497417

>These guys are pretty bad now.

What changed about them?

>>49497624
Some factions bring less infantry now.

>>49483031
Well cryx is the magic faction so lets limit their ability to efficiently use magic

>>49498421

So Infantry Machine as a tactic is out the window in this edition?

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I want a new caster, im looking at the skarre's, which incarnation would you guys say is the most fun to play and/or has the most shenanigans potential.

>>49498595
It's reserved exclusively for Khador and Ret

>>49499140

So Cryx can't do it as well anymore?

>>49499628
not easy-mode

>>49485077
Update: went 3-1, good enough for 2nd place. Lost the last game to the clock in a winning position

No real complaints, just have to play more to get faster.

>>49501287
>>49501287
>>49501287

New Thread! Abandon Ship!