/CofD/ &/wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness

>>49436730

>What are some red flags you see in players?

Likes to show off their collection of knives by describing how fast they can cut a throat.

Hey, I got a vampire question. I'm considering bloodlines for my Daeva in requiem and I'm really liking the Amara Havana

The thing is that they leave illusory bloody hand prints on everything they touch

could I counter that by wearing gloves?

>>49436891
>can I counter my bloodline's signature weakness by just wearing gloves

I'm leaning towards no, anon, for obvious reasons.

recommend me some wod / cofd
approved movies/tv shows

>>49437266
Well the bloody handprints are created where your hand touches

why wouldn't putting a barrier between your hand and whatever you're touching not alleviate that?

>>49437352
Supernatural, especially the earlier seasons

>>49437440
heard of supernatural only seen one episode
but i liked that one episode does it come on tv anymore? like reruns?

>>49437352
the lost girls
supernatural (season 1-5, 6-7 if you're masochist)

>>49437475
Yeah it's usually on TNT, you could probably find it online

also, Buffy if you're into that kind of thing

>>49437440
Because you are still touching it through the glove. It's illusory blood, it doesn't play by physical mundane rules.

>>49437526
yeah new season this october

>>49437440

illusions don't give a fuck about gloves

it wouldn't be a weakness if you could negate it that easily, use your fucking head

>>49437352

Go watch True Detective right now.

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Reminder that

>Forgotten is best Threshold
>Tzimisce is best clan/bloodline
>Mastigos is best path
>Manikin is best Kith

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>>49438074
>three CofD opinions
>randomly toss a WoD one in there

Prey are the best Threshold with Silent as a runner-up, though the Torn have the coolest logo ever (pic related), the best VtM bloodline is the Gargoyles and all of the clans are lame, Mastigos are almost as cool as Obrimos but not quite, and Bloodbrutes are the best Kith because they let you go all Hotline Miami on folks.

>>49438123
Of course Torn have the coolest logo, but Forgotten still best.

I added Tzimisce to my VtR game with permission from ST and workshopping it to translate well. It's a bloodline in our setting that Nosferatu or Vent can pick up.

My Geist is Silent!

Mastigos is by far the coolest path though, no questions asked. Warlock for life.

>>49438162

There's already a totally-not-Tzimisce bloodline in the Norvegi. They have Vicissitude and everything.

I've been sitting on a Silent geist for ages now, The Lost Cosmonaut, who appears as a space suit with starry void inside. He's all about acceptance of death and cosmic insignificance... except for those killed by others screwing them over, for obvious reasons.

Have you been keeping up with the trickle of Geist 2e spoilers?

>>49437352
Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell(I recently realized the best way to play a character based on Jonathan would be someone in the Order of Hermes in MtAs)
Twin Peaks(Mortals)
True Detective(Mortals)
Being Human US & UK(UK is more WoD/plot-driven, US is more CofD/character-driven, although the UK version is a lot better overall imo; main characters are a Vampire, Werewolf, and Wraith/Ghost/whatever)
Cleverman(Main dude is a Dreamspeaker, in both MtAs and MtAw senses)

>>49437475
Supernatural isn't even over.
It's on The CW, season 12 is starting next month.
You can also watch the first 10 seasons(11th probably coming next month, too) on Netflix.

>>49437440
I would imagine that even if that worked, the blood would flow out of the glove.

>>49438215
Not only is Tzimisce as a word leagues prettier sounding than Norvegi; I really liked the history of Tzimisce loads and loads and not having fangs is dumb as a sack of hair.

What's your dead Cosmonaut bound to?

Nope, I know absolutely nothing. About a year or so ago I heard they weren't going to include Forgotten so I buried my head in the sand.

Any good spoilers?

>>49438457

I'd love to hear how you pronounce Tzimisce. My boyfriend is Romanian and thus insists it should be "zhuh-mee-say," but the internet is full of godawful "sim-meet-zee" people.

The Lost Cosmonaut isn't bound to anyone yet, because I haven't played Geist in years and years now. I don't speak to the guy who used to run it for me anymore.

Haven't heard anything about any of the Thresholds being cut, but there's obvious talk about overhauling Manifestations (and I think they've been renamed to Haunts, but I could be wrong) and shaking things up. Krewes are apparently so changed that they can't easily be summarized in a forum post, Archetypes should mean something this time around, and Bound other than Sin-Eaters are apparently in as antagonists, with Sin-Eater now specifically referring to one subset of Bound.

Anything by GimpInBlack is official: http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/geist-the-sin-eaters/399463-will-geist-get-the-2e-treatment

>>49438524

In spanish we pronounce it "Te-me-che" Like

>>49438944
Always pronounced it "Tsee-mee-chay"

>>49439013
>>49438524
>>49438524

Excuse me, but I believe you will find that it is pronounced: "Triple Jim".

>>49436730

>red flags

Biggest one is usually the person who talks more about their character than things they'd like to do with them. This isn't a universal rule, but it holds true pretty damn well.

>>49436884

... Wait, is the player the one with the knives or the character?

>>49437839

Correction: Watch the first half. Everything after that is disappointment and failure. I guarantee whatever you imagine the real story might be, it's better than what they delivered.

>>49439154

Bullshit. All of Season 1 is fantastic.

>>49439235

Bullshit to your bullshit. If I wanted to watch Matthew McCoughnahey in a Southern soap opera, I'd just watch Mud again. At least that knew how to do payoff.

First four eps were great to TD, no doubt, but the series blew its load early and had no idea how to do proper payoff.

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>>49438215
>>49438457
Norvegi are only tangentially similar to Tzimisce.
Also, I really need to figure out how to make Tzimisce in 2e not dumb.
I like my ideas for Viccissitude (though it could use a second draft), but the ideas I had for Tzimisce themselves were just DOUBLE VENTRUE.

>>49438074
>Mastigos is best path
And more full of edgelords and pretentious self-absorbed fuckwits than any other.
Thyrsus a best.

>>49438074
That's four. There's ten gamelines, soon to be eleven. Give your opinions on the rest so we can tell you how wrong you are.

>>49436730
>flags you see in players

Players who talk about their characters only in terms of 'I have these stats' or 'I can get this many bonuses'.

Players who take great pains to detail out the squicky shit they do.

Catpissmen.

>>49437352
Supernatural up through season 4 (then it turns into an Angel/Demon game with two human PCs that they just can't kill off)
Buffy/Angel
Fringe
Forever Knight
Being Human
Lost Girl (it's Changeling the TV show, more or less)
Penny Dreadful
The Originals (it's SO much better than TVD)

>>49441079
Persons of Interest for Demon

>>49441079
lol changeling the show

>>49441349
Okay, it kinda is. More OWoD Changeling than NWoD Changeling.

>>49436730
>Red flags in players
When they act like every success is a victory against the ST

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Would Possessed from Inferno be a good class for creating a child who transforms into a powerful adult with a very different personality?

>>49441870
Just use basic dread powers. Unless that second personality is actually demonic.

>>49436730
>What are some red flags you see in players?
Blames things on Jews/Blacks/Whites/others
Their only experience with gaming is ERP

I'm starting to feel like Gecko is a professional troll who's honed her methods. Surgical shitposting

>>49442061
Having talked to her, I think she's just an idiot, but I live by life by Hanlon's Razor.
To quote McCoy from Dresden Files:
>"Only so many blackhearted villains in the world, and they only get uppity on occasion. Stupid's everywhere, every day."

But what's she up to this time? I notice her signature still says "bye".

>>49442171
I saw someone posted something in the Prometheans forum and there's a thread about "Alternate goals for refinement". So I assume it's someone looking for alternate ending milestones for the various roles but no. It's Gecko. Looking to talk about the same shit as always: how to play Promethean without becoming human. Again

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B2K8R3qXyDyoVzlNd1FUeEtHMTQ

Hill gave us the Hedge mechanics. Enjoy, fellow shitstains.

>>49442291

I just can't understand why someone couldn't just play Promethean without ever using the New Dawn mechanics.

Anyone else not like the qauishmilim (sp) at all?

Like, it just feels like they are more plot actors than actual characters. Even more so than GM angels. I think the rules made them sound too invincible. Like, unless the principle plans for you to fight and lose to one, or fight and 'kill' one, by the rules you should never win. It can just go invulnerable and not be there anymore. It flips you off and heads to another state of being.

So they may as well be gods.

But some if them have esoteric goals and jobs? But unlike with angels, where we know the vague rules the GM tries to fulfill for random reasons, we have NO idea what the principle is trying to achieve when it is out counting doors and stuff.

It feels a little unfinished.

>>49442513
Promethean is perfect how dare you

>>49442513
>it just feels like they are more plot actors than actual characters
Pretty solid Angels then.

>>49442497

Because the kind of player that does this doesn't want to play in a whole party of transhuman Prometheans, they want to be The One Transhuman Promethean in a party of normal ones, who gets to benefit from all the normal Promethean stuff but turn into something cooler and more powerful at the end rather than a "boring old human :C"

>>49442551
Yeah, but they are still trash compared to gm angels though. Because their mechanics don't matter. They aren't 'the being there to defend this building, regardless of who comes, unable to tell friend from foe, with xyz bans and banes.'

They are, 'that guy who tries to cut you until the principle decides you shouldn't be cut no more.'

>>49442428
Fucking finally.

>>49442497
I don't understand why she [and everyone else] can't just understand that Promethean is not the game she wants. Seriously. Everything about Promethean is set up to work towards one thing.

>>49442513
>Like, it just feels like they are more plot actors than actual characters.
Literally what they are. It's not going to be the kind of thing where the players are going to fight it in the first place. If the ST uses it that way, they're literally doing it wrong.

>>49442588
No, these people often want to change the entire theme of the game. Geckopirateship even has a forum dedicated to homebrewing Promethean to entirely change the themes.
Well, not dedicated to that, I suppose. There also seemed to be "changing Awakening to be more like Ascension".

>>49442588
Even though the game already has means in there to still be a little supernatural after turning human...

>>49442626
>>49442626
Oh yes definitely, but the fact we know so much about GM angels is that PCs are Demons who used to be Angels. The total mystery of quashmallim makes sense to be since it is from the Promethean perspective, but it'd be better if they explained the Principle a bit better so through knowing it we know the Quashmal.

>>49442648
That requires effort, and still means becoming a squishy human.

>>49442428
So the Hedge now only embodies pain?
I get that it is dangerous and a way to lose your mind and soul, but wasn't it supposed to be a little less shitty than that?
I'm not really a fan of them saying "it's psychoactive, but only for pain, and will corrupt any other emotion into pain".

>>49442588
>>49442648

I really do hope Deviant is the game for them. Like you probably couldn't get away with turning into a transhumanist god without blowing the fuck up, and you'll probably be just as homeless as a Promethean, but Deviant seems like a game where you can explore not being human in a more theme friendly manner.

>>49442775
Actually it's not that bad on a closer reading. Still not fond of them putting in that "if it's not painful, the Hedge doesn't care for it" part.

>>49442428
>>49442775
Link the thread so we can give our two cents.

Personally, I prefer the Hedge as dangerous, but not evil. i.e. "even joy can run amok".

>>49442775
>>49442775

Myeah, on the Beautiful Madness scale, it's a bit too far on the Madness, and too short on the Beautiful parts.

>>49442832
http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/changeling-the-lost/973545-the-hedge-not-the-supplement-book

Here ya go.

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>>49442847
>>49442428
For people who also hate the way Google Drive does pdfs.

>>49442677
Yeah. I think the problem is that in an attempt to make the world feel lonely and cold to prometheans, they left a lot of their extra cast 'reasonless'.

The game is just prommies, evil prommies (of which there are few because only about 100 at a time), prommie abortions, and angel plot devices.

So outside of evil prommies, your enemies are sort of... Simple.

>>49442847

>Myeah, on the Beautiful Madness scale, it's a bit too far on the Madness, and too short on the Beautiful parts.

If I recall correctly, the subtitle got changed to something else.

>>49442981
Alchemists and Centimani have reasons.

Pandorans aren't part of the "extra cast", they're more like obstacles.

Qashmallim aren't antagonists.

>>49443282
They can easily be antagonists. Since the principle may decide you need to fight one for multiple reasons.

Alchemists are there too. Though they kind of suck at their job of being antagonists. And are effectively fancy hunters.

>>49442816

I figure that's to be more in keeping with Fae Realms being lands of sheer trauma.

In my next session of my solo promethean game, I expect the PC to run into an Athanor.

What I'm wondering is, does the Azothic memory make it obvious to a Promethean when they are near, or see, an athanor? Like, is it like BAM when they walk in the room, no matter what shape or form it has taken?

Because I want the center of a big problem in town to be a Jovian Athanor that is in a bad man's possession, and it would kind of suck if they walked right up to the thing, and didn't realize it was bad news.

>>49444857
But the fae are capable of compassion.
It's as fulfilling to them as vices are to us, and it's always motivated by some kind of self interest, but they are capable of it.

I feel like some of these changes risk making the gentry and the realms of the fae too one note.

>>49445983
I think we should be careful not to mix up 'The Hedge' and Arcadia.

Arcadia is the kingdoms of the Fae and gentry.

The Hedge is just the borderlands and trodden path between them.

The True Fae have to deal with the Hedge too (though they can warp it, and don't get hurt by it). It isn't their home, it is a land in between.

Unless you guys were just talking about normal 'Fae' instead of The Gentry. In which case, ignore me.

>>49438524
>>49438944
>>49439013
>>49439027
Zim-Skee here.

>>49441870
Isn't the Pharaoh actually an Arisen?

>>49446133
Not literally making Yami/Yugi. Just the general concept of a kid reincarnated from an ancient being who transforms into a more powerful adult form.

>>49446144
Well I don't see why you couldn't use stuff from CofD Mummy to explain Yu-Gi-Oh.

>The Pharaoh was supposed to be re-incarnated by his last living descendant when they finished the puzzle. However, when he appeared tot he person who created it, it wasn't his umptythump-great-grandson, instead it was some twatty midget with stupid hair.
>It's the same general story with the other Millennium Items that have people connected to them.
>Duel Monsters are just accretions of Sekhem.
>Shadow Games are the Pharaoh going all out.

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>>49446312
>conflict resolution consists of stopping to play yu-gi-oh in character

>>49446371
Sure why not.

I'm curious about Scion, and iirc Neal's quite good, what's the hype lvl?
I just hope there's not too much pronouns fuckery as it's sometimes hard to follow as a non English native.

>>49446451
Jesus Christ people. It is still two days or more until the KS right?

Put your pants on.

eccentric nerdy plant obsessed girl is my Thyrsus mage. She's weird dealing with fertilizer and manure and growing gardens. She gets herself muddy all the time

>>49446552
Obvious Lúcio ripoff is my Thyrsus.
People shit on Forces, but there's so much fun stuff you can do with it at Disciple level.

>>49446713
We talking Overwatch Lúcio here?

>>49446736
Yep.
With a Forces-based custom Thyrsus Legacy.

Something that annoys me about Changeling 2e is how much it's been tied to dreams. I think the dreaming stuff needed to be better integrated, but the way it's been done has taken something away from the Hedge and Arcadia that makes them less interesting. Before human emotions and dreams were important as fuel and drive for the Gentry and influenced the Hedge in some way, but the why was up in the air. Now it's because faerie things are apparently made from the stuff.

>>49437352
Stranger Things
Technically it's a great show for showing how people would react to a mage.

>>49447382
What, freaking out then forgetting like 30 seconds later?

No, Stranger Things is a fantastic innocents/mortals chronicle.

Hy tg. Today i got my Obsession and realised i rp it wrong all this time.

>>49448229
>Today i got my Obsession

Is that like getting your period?

>>49446832

Hasn't it always been that everything Fae was created from human dreams? Like there's a CofD style "it can be whatever you want maaaaaan", but it always seemed like the developer really wanted you to come away with Arcadia and The Hedge being ultimately human creations.

>>49446474
>Put your pants on.
Never.

>>49449630

You should at least keep your pants on when you're wandering through The Hedge.

>>49449637
Risking your genitals is how we prove manhood I guess.

>>49449653
Or lose.

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>>49438524
I do have to agree with up above of the forgotten being my favorite threshold, though torn definitely has the best logo (although I think all the logos are pretty good in their own way)

I have been keeping up with the spoilers for Geist 2e myself sounds like pretty exciting stuff. For those who haven't kept up or do not want to go to those forums basically this is the new info we've gotten so far.

>There is no longer the downside of being forced to stay in the Underworld for long periods of time for having high Psyche. Sin-Eaters will being a high fuel reserves/ammo spending splat.
>Synergy is completely different. Geists have more of an involvement and presence in-game and on your character.
>Manifestations are now "Haunts", to keep from confusing with other ghostly abilities. The powers are now a tighter power set and more thematically unified. Keys are still a thing.
>Claimed and the Bargain are two different ghostly manifestations, which Geists can also do either or of (though a Geist cannot claim or possess that which it is bound to from a bargain)
>There are plans for supplement books unlike 1e. With plans to cover stuff like the Cthonian bound from Dark eras, Multi-bargained Bound, Abmortals, and maybe stuff like a power ghostly being antagonist that is anchored to the concept of its own name (Beetlejuice/Bloody Mary types).
>Deathlords are no longer a thing, but instead their place in a sense, there are Cthonic Gods.
>Memento is no longer 5 different ranks of mixed and matched things, now one bigger thematic pool of ghostly infused items, they are more integral to a Sin-Eaters powers for incentive to collect them. Death masks are no longer under categories of memento and are hinted to be something more.
>There are new antagonists, the [redacted] that find out about you, when you find out about them, they bear masks.
>The Book will have a mix of some old antagonists and completely new antagonists.

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>>49442902
Hedge update. See how you feel about the changes.

Personally, I think it's better and more nuanced, but still too much focus on pain. I don't need the book to explain to me how nice things can be sad in such a way.

>>49449867
The translucency on that image is a really nice touch. Looks impressive on a mouse over

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>>49449867
(Continued)

>There will be lots of carrots and incentives for going to the Underworld without strong arming you to like 1e. Lots of story can and will happen in there.
>The focus is very personal and immediate rather than getting caught in the grand cosmic scope of things.
>A Geist is generally a ghost that has drank from one of the rivers. "There are a lot more than five rivers"
>Krewes mechanics and such are completely retooled. Big emphasis on discovering history, archeology of past Krewes.
>Ceremonies are kind of like 2e Forsaken Rites with rituals and symbolism made up per krewe.
>Sin-Eaters are bound that try to help ghosts move on/deal with angry ghosts/help with balance, there are non Sin-Eater Bound that will pop up in the book, that are different in Sin-Eater culture and politics and perhaps even mechanically so. Comparable book space to the Pure in 2e core.
>There is going to be a Demi-Splat
>Cenotes are the current name of their "safe house" merit
>Archetypes and thresholds will be different

>>49450034
Thanks, thought it would be a neat little effect for the ghostly stuff!

>>49439102
But anon! The Plinkett Test!
>but this is fairly true, chattering about backstory and who they are, not how they fit in to the world or how they interact with it is a thing.

>>49438524
Zee-Mees-See
Never really imagined it any other way, with a silent T and a soft C.

>>49450448
It's Greek in origin, so I assume the T is hard. Tsi-me-tche

Holy hell been looking everywhere for links for some WoD content but never really knew where to look and all. Was a big fan of the PC Vampire the Masquerade game back in the day and have always been thirsty for more WoD content.

>>49451098
err I forgot to add I was looking everywhere till I found this thread.

Will Deviant and Demon ever be added to the mega?

>>49451659

Deviant isn't even out yet!

>>49449907

The pain focus is massively off-putting to me. The Hedge needed to be the kind of place that tempts a Changeling to be fae as balls; all the glory and wonder and beauty of Arcadia is up front, while the terror creeps in like a thief.

Wonder AND terror; pleasure AND pain; the Hedge should exemplify both! Giving one primacy over the other gives Changelings reasons to want to avoid it, not struggling to find ways to avoid wanting it.

>>49438524

AFAICT, It's closer to Zee-me-She

But then, no one ever says Brew-yar or Cam-ar-ee-uh (The L in Camarilla is silent. It's Italian.)

>>49452679

>The Hedge needed to be the kind of place that tempts a Changeling to be fae as balls

Honestly, with the way the template is now, and especially with the way Freeholds work in 2e, Changelings seem mighty tempted to go full Fae on their own accord. In that case, the Hedge being a reminder of pain and horror seems fine.

>>49452906

It really isn't, though. All it being a place of pain does is drive them away. That was its problem in 1e, and it looks like it will be now.

Arcadia should be a source of shame as much as fear because, for all of its awfulness, it has highs the world can't compete with. It's like an abusive relationship; everything will be different, -this- time...

Is sixth degree mastery overkill for a mage character?

I'm planning a chronicle where the Adamant Sage of the local caucus is growing in power at an astounding rate and no one can figure out why.

>>49453016

Whatever fits the story, man. Don't even feel particularly pressed to define them; just have them pull whatever miracles you need out their tightly-clenched butt cheeks.

>>49453016
>and no one can figure out why.
Plot twist: He's actually a False Awakened whose about to explode.

>>49453049
Brilliant mystery is the atomic man

>>49452958
This time my dreams will work out. even if it hurts a little, but no pain no gain right?

Reality says yeah no.

>>49437352

>110 Posts
>Nobody suggested Kindred the Embraced

Kindred the Embraced (the show is way better than its reputation)

Forever Knight

X-files

Being Human

Lost Girl is a better Changeling: The Dreaming than Changeling: The Dreaming

Mad Men and Breaking Bad aren't at all supernatural, but they have the right tone. Don Draper in particular is a better vampire than just about any vampire on TV, despite not actually being a vampire.

Oh, and go watch Embrace of the Vampire and The Hunger. Neither are terribly good, but in the first you get a young Alyssa Milano in a softcore "hunted by a vampire" movie and in the other you get David Bowie in roughly the same situation. Both are well worth watching.

>>49449379
It always seemed to me like Arcadia could exist without it, it would just be dead and devoid of meaning. Now this is going to sound kind of nit-picky, but if they're made from dreams than why do fae have solid bodies and not be ephemeral like Goetia? Why isn't it a place in the Astral?

>>49436730

Anybody got a PDF of W20 Changing Breeds yet? And, yes, I checked mega.

>>49453294

Exactly. Fae stories always start with temptation; the offered fruit, the glittering treasure. Except once you know it's always a trap, you never take the offer again. Once bitten, twice shy.

The Hedge needs promise to be the allure, and it can't just be illusory. There has to be real hope there. That's why losing it can feel sharper.

>>49453686

Except for the ones where someone encounters one of the Fair Folk by chance, refuses the temptation, and is punished for discourteously refusing hospitality.

They're scary because they really only play by their own rules, and those rules are even more capricious than they are.

>>49452876
>/kah-mah-ree-lyah, -ree-yah/
>/ˈbɾuxa/
You're wrong on both accounts. They're Spanish
That'd be Ca-ma-ree-lyah and Broo-hah.

>>49452958

>All it being a place of pain does is drive them away.

Which it should. Everything that is Fae causes pain, full stop. Any wonder is only there to set up further pain. It's not a temptation, it's just a means to hurt.

You should avoid everything Fae whenever possible. The game happens when you can't avoid it anymore.

>>49453049
The idea I have for the character is that he's been considered a prodigy for most of his awakened life to the point that their have been persistent rumors by political rivals that he's an archmage in disguise. Now an exceptionally well preserved man in his early sixties he has maintained the arrow and the consilla they protect through combat prowess and sheer force of character.

Recently though his magic has gone to a whole other level.

>>49453982
I disagree. The Fae aren't evil, they're alien. They're dream logic and storybooks.

>>49453763

Those stories aren't usually the ones Changeling plays with, though. They're good for captivity narratives, but not for actual gameplay.

>>49453982

That's not fun, though; it makes Changeling into a game of agony and misery; where the sensible thing is to run from the plot. If I wanted that, I'd play Call of Cthulhu.

The fae are driven by powerful emotions. That includes positive ones. They should be every bit as inspiring and sublime as they are anguish-inducing. They're the mountain that's perilous to climb but has spectacular views; the jungle full of snakes with beautiful flowers.

The fae are dangerous because they can make you want them, and because when they promise you beauty and joy, they mean it.

>>49454391

>it makes Changeling into a game of agony and misery; where the sensible thing is to run from the plot. If I wanted that, I'd play Call of Cthulhu.

It would be the sensible thing to do, if you actually could run from the plot. Demon's very similar: the goal should be to live a peaceful life, but it's impossible. Thus the game lies in trying to find the balance, if there's ever any. Changeling 2e leans harder on learning to cope and recover than the 1st edition, but that still means that pain is the most important thematic element of the game.

>The fae are driven by powerful emotions. That includes positive ones.

Which are only a thin facade for the pain they will inevitably inflict. They seduce only so that they can hurt, whether or not they actually understand that that's what they're doing. The Hedge has no delusions, it is honest about what is really going on.

>>49455139
Problem is, continually running and hiding from pain is boring.
And in their attempts to make coping and "moving on" more pertient, they've had to amp up the anguish to provide a common experience.

Sure, pain works.
There's a lot you can do with pain.
But saying everything is pain is stupid.

Do major templates e.g. werewolves, vampires, changelings etc. understand high speech? Or does it sound like gibberish to them?

Quick question for Dave if he's around. Does a mage's true name have more weight than their shadow name for sympathetic casting?

>>49455270

Only (and all) mages understand High Speech via their Peripheral Mage Sight. The High Speech merit represents training to use High Speech as a yantra in spellcasting.

It will sound like gibberish to everyone else. On the plus side, since other splats are default sleepwalkers, high speech shouldn't be painful to listen to as it is for sleepers.

>>49455202

>Problem is, continually running and hiding from pain is boring.

Again, it's like Demon: the ideal situation is to run and hide, but you can't hide. The pain's coming for you whether you're hiding or not, and how you deal with it is where the game lies. There's also parts of the game that are actually about wonder and joy and freedom from pain, but that's got nothing to do with the Fae and everything to do with your Freehold, your Motley, and the things that matter to you.

>>49455688
I dont want to play Demon: The Western Folklore.

So. I don't want to use Gaian werewolves in my game. But my players are interested in a vampire-werewolf war ala Underworld. I need good plothooks for such thing!

>>49455139
>>49455688

Yeah, that's... Friggin' dull. If everything is nakedly about pain, everyone ends up burned out and miserable. I've played games like that and run them, and they're fucking awful.

If you have to force PCs to play the game, the game isn't fun. It deprives them of proactivity. If they won't go to the Hedge except on sufferance, the game's done something wrong. It has made magic and whimsy something you AVOID in a game whose entire aesthetic is built around that.

>>49455763

Then don't. I'm not your dad. I'm just saying, Changeling 2e is about trauma and recovery, of course it wants to focus on the actual trauma as well as the recovery. It stands to reason that if anything was going to become a living PTSD trigger, it'd be The Hedge.

>>49455819
If the Hedge wasn't bad, why the fuck would you ever try to escape?

Lost has always been about survivor trauma. Most people don't want to go back to places that were deeply damaging for them - that's just a basic element of trauma. You can still run stories that involve the Hedge, and for some characters returning to the Hedge will be part of their story. But if you thought it was all butterflies and goblin markets maybe you missed the part where 1e Hedge rips people apart or leads changelings right back to their Keepers. It is not and never has been 'whimsical'.

>>49455895
>If the Hedge wasn't bad, why the fuck would you ever try to escape?
You don't escape the Hedge, you escape Arcadia.

>>49455957
Arcadia isnt bad either, thyrsus confirms. Only some weakshit spoiled children can be traumatised by it.

>>49455983
>Arcadia isnt bad either
Arcadia isn't bad. The shit that inhabits it however, is.

>>49455819

>It has made magic and whimsy something you AVOID in a game whose entire aesthetic is built around that.

No, the game built around magic and whimsy is Changeling: the Dreaming. This is Changeling: The Lost, the game where you're on the road to recovery after having your life stolen and ruined by the amoral gods beyond the thorns. You can't run away from what happened to you, because it's been etched into your very being. The game comes from the question of what you do with yourself afterward.

It doesn't mean everything is doom and gloom, because you have the Changeling society as your support group, even if there's plenty of drama to be had there. You still get involved, and you still use Changeling abilities, because who else will when the Huntsmen come calling, or when the True Fae try to take someone else?

>>49455983
Acanthus my bad.

>>49455983

>Arcadia isnt bad either, thyrsus confirms
>They think Arcadia is Arcadia

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLwAjOGQcHo

>>49453685

Nobody?

>>49456047
Its actually same in supernal symbols so arcadia is arcadia

>>49456094

It's literally not. Dave was here for weeks talking about how literally any fucking Mage would be able to tell the difference immediately between the two.

>>49456103
Dave not a mage.

>>49456108
>Dave not a mage.

No, he's far, far more powerful.

>>49455426
If you don't have the targets true name, you get a penalty on sympathetic casting. So obviously the true name.

http://theonyxpath.com/now-available-an-onyx-smorgasbord/
bunch of bundles available now

>>49456397

Oh so he's a Pangaean, then.

>>49456673
Why are they selling 1e books?

>>49456744

People still play 1e. No sense in throwing out free money, especially when it costs you nothing to keep the file up.

>>49456678

Our tiny minds and limited perspective cannot fathom the enormity that is Dave.

There are no words in any language that truly can describe him.

Dave is Dave, and that will have to be enough.

>>49455895
Faerie stuff in Changeling 2e is too much stick and not enough carrot. Also it's too blatant with it's themes. Pain being important is fine, but not when it's text instead of subtext.

I really like how the mechanics are shaping up, but I'll probably stick with 1e fluff.

>>49457177

>too much stick and not enough carrot

A lot of games these days have the opposite problem, so I'm kind of OK with Changeling 2e being what it is.

>>49457177
>but I'll probably stick with 1e fluff.
1e Changeling: the lost
or Changeling: the dreaming?

I am really not liking the way Lost 2 E is turning out. Its not a refinement on 1E like Requiem and Forsaken, its almost as much of a new game as Lost is from Dreaming.

It takes all these neat things that worked just fine, and works to toss them out for no good reason.

>>49457360
Changeling: The Lost.

>>49457379
I agree that a lot of the changes feel like change for the sake of change. Changeling was a great game, so it's weird that it's tone is more different than 1e Werewolf and 2e Werewolf.

>>49457379
>>49457397

It's not like it'll really matter, it'll still sell like hotcakes either way. It's not like it'll be hard to play it 1e style using the 2e ruleset.

>>49457471
That's the plan. I'll probably port over the old pledge system too, because the new feel almost vestigial.

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watching Kindred: The Embraced.

it's surprisingly good, but the whole sunlight and lack of frenzy thing kinda really irks me, pic related

i can see why it got cancelled but i do wish there was more just for the sake of more

>>49457999
>i can see why it got cancelled
the main chracters actor died

>>49458021
oh fuck excuse my ignorance

>>49457999
never saw the show, whats the deal with sunlight?

>>49458085
well if i recall correctly they can stand in sunlight as long as they've fed recently

but in the pilot the opening scene is a chase scene in broad daylight and only one of the vampires ends up catching on fire

it's hard to film a show entirely at night i suppose but they haven't really explored ghouls yet...

so, i... i don't know

>>49458122
>they can stand in sunlight as long as they've fed recently

forgot to mention this wasn't established until ep 3 or 4

>>49458021
>>49458029
Actually, it was cancelled before he died. Showtime was in the process of buying the rights to produce it, then Frankel died in a motorcycle accident. He was by far the reason the show was so good, and so they canned the plans.

>>49458135
Nah, Alexandra tells the cop that in the first episode, that they can be in the sun for a while if they've recently fed.

They weren't making it for a VtM-accurate experience. Supernatural media was only becoming a 'thing' in that time with things like Forever Knight, Highlander and such. This was a way to draw in a broad audience and allow a show to function with non-night scenes.

>>49458161
>Nah, Alexandra tells the cop that in the first episode

oh lol guess i just have the memory/attention span of an infant

>>49455580
Plus it lets Mages and Werewolves be annoying to each other. Mage starts rattling off in High Speech and the Werewolf starts describing stuff in First Tongue. Just to be dicks to each other.

Like if your parents were from North and South Vietnam, and had you as an accident, and stuck together for the sake of the child.

>>49458184
LOL. No worries. I keep being told I have a photographic memory for insignificant information, but damn if I wouldn't be good on Jeopardy. I guess it's why i'm Forever ST here in my city, I'm the only one who knows the rules at the drop of a hat.

Scion 2E kickstarter countdown. 18 hours until Kickstart begins.

>>49458198

Mages are easily capable of learning First Tongue or simply magically conversing in it using Spirit or Mind.

Only mages and those connected to the supernal (or presumably the Omphalos in the Astral) can use High Speech.

>>49458323

Meh. Scion is not the WoD or CofD.

Besides, the new system for the game sadly feels like a FATE conversion of the current Storyteller System, and I much prefer more crunchy mechanics. I was originally really looking forward to Aeon, but the new system thus far is a real turn-off. YMMV.

What'd be some good reasons for characters of different supernatural backgrounds to adventure together?

>>49458406
As someone in the playtest, there's more crunch than I think you expect on first pass. The problem for me and my players is that it is crunch in a style we're not used to so it is weird to pick up.

>>49458406
>acting like FATE influence is anything other than a good thing

I love everything I've seen of Storypath so far. Sorry it isn't to your liking, anon.

Unpopular opinion: FATE, GUMSHOE, and PbtA are the holy trinity of game engines, with Dramasystem equally good but so distinct from others as to barely be on the same level.

>>49458406

Dude we've seen all of 10 pages of the system.

If I showed you the 10 pages where D&D describes how to roll a d20 and what a feat is you'd probably think that was a light system too.

>>49458406
Why do people keep saying this?

Nothing in the Storypath document feels like FATE. It literally reads like vague storyteller rules without the full details to Scion on there yet.

>>49458475

Hey, if you like FATE and other primarily narrative systems, that's fine. I just prefer more crunchy game engines.

For instance, I like GURPS and HERO, while I know some people loathe them.

I'm glad there's something for everyone, but unfortunately, unless the final system is a lot better *for me* when released, I'll likely pass on the games. As I was big Aeon / Trinity fan, I really wanted to like it, and am disappointed.

>>49458502

The Paths feature feels very, very reminiscent of Aspects from FATE. While I like that, I can see why others wouldn't. The Momentum mechanic is the same kind of meta-currency people seem to rally against for some reason, too.

>>49458475
>>49458406
Fate has good ideas, but I feel like Fate itself isn't that good a game. It has a lot of ideas I'd prefer had more crunch. I prefer Conditions to Aspects, for instance. The way that Conditions are more flexible and defined is a boon. Fate is also really bad at character advancement. I do wish CofD had Fate Points, but Storypath does have that, with Momentum.

I really like that CofD is sort of "rules medium".

>>49458502
Momentum, the health system (which looks weird and I don't understand it), Paths.
This is on top of Conditions and Aspirations already being very similar to Fate's Aspects.

>>49458500
>>49458502

There's been a lot of spoilers and discussions about the system as it developed from involved OPP authors like Dave and Neal besides the recent system document.

If the final system is not FATE-esque or very narrative in nature, I will be thrilled to be proven wrong about my initial assessment.

I'm not generally condemning the system, it's just that it's probably not for me. You can't please everyone all the time.

>>49458535
Paths are just saying 'make up orgs and origins like in world of darkness games'. Conditions and aspirations aren't that different from 2nd edition storyteller.

>>49458575
>Conditions and aspirations aren't that different from 2nd edition storyteller.
... which is clearly similar to Fate.

>>49458575

As another Anon correctly observed, Storyteller is already a "rules medium" system. For those of us who like heavier crunch, a system that's "inspired" by Storyteller and then clearly takes a more narrative mechanical turn, will not suit our tastes or preferences.

Again, I understand why some people like such systems and OPP's reasons for going in that direction, but if the final system does indeed feel anything even remotely close to a WoD Fate, it's just not for me.

>>49457999
The show is at once really good and super trashy.

You kinda need to know Vampire to get how things work because its all so complex and it does not do a good job explaining anything. However its also not really a WoD setting since the vampires function differently . All the Brujah are mafia and businessmen, all the gangrel are gypsies, the Nosferatu are still supposed to be insanely ugly, but are just bald. They also double as the Tremere. From the way the prince acts I swear they changed his clan at some point.

But enough of the crime and political shuffling works to hook you in.

>>49458361
Yeah, I've always wondered about that. It does sound like a non-Mage can temporarily gain the ability to understand High Speech there.

I'm more interested in what form a Mage-Wolf abomination would take after a Werewolf drank from the spring in the Anima Mundi. While Werewolves don't have a reliable way to reach it, they can exist in the Anima Mundi without being torn apart by the Ecstatic Winds.

>>49456047
>>49456094
>>49456103
The story I like is that when the exarchs claimed the supernal and cast down the old gods they sundered reality by forcing it to conform to their perspective. The Arcadia known to every Acanthus is just one possible variant of it the one known to changelings is another.

>>49458699
Don't get me wrong; I like where Storypath is headed (aside from still not groking the health). It might be what I've always wanted out of World of Darkness: A system that has rules I like and am familiar with, but more ability to create outside the core system.

It'd be especially amazing if they give us the ability to publish our own things on DrivethruRPG, the way that Cortex and Cypher and so on do.

>>49459110
That's not really even remotely true, and where it's almost true is the kind of truth you'd get from playing telephone based on what you've seen other people say of Imperial Mysteries.

File: Theoldman.png (283KB, 400x619px) Image search: [Google]

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Is this a good analogue for the old man?

>>49459127
It is Mage propaganda true.

To them EVERYTHING is 'supernal truths corrupted and taken form' or whatever.

Another likely possibility is that the Supernal works the other way. It is the 'logos' symbolic version of stuff going on in the world. If people have an idea of 'chair', there is some supernal 'chair' made up of an amalgamation of humanities view of 'chair'.

>>49459201

Mages acknowledge that most mysterious stuff in the CofD have absolutely nothing directly to do with Supernal, and no everything has a necessary Supernal explanation.

That does not mean the Arcana cannot be used to study or interact with most beings or effects.

>>49459247
'Mages acknowledge'.

Well, 'some mages acknowledge'

From the fiction, to the players, most mages seem to take mage reality as the main reality, and everything else as derivative.

>>49459201
>>49459262
>It is Mage propaganda true.
No it's not. It's you not understanding things.

And no, most Mage players don't take Mage reality as the "main reality". That's people who hate Mage and feel like it's trying to "explain" everything.

>>49459262

In Mage 2e, all mages know with certainty that not everything is related to or caused by the Supernal. If fact, they know most things are not the result of the Supernal.

By studying non-Supernal Mysteries, i.e., most Mysteries, mages can still advance their Gnosis and command of the Arcana.

>>49459365
Oh yeah, all those mage false flags.

I forgot that we were on /pol/.

>>49459380
You are literally right now saying "Mages all think this and that". YOU ARE LITERALLY DOING THE THING I AM SAYING PEOPLE DO.

>>49459393
Actually, I literally changed it to 'some' instead of >>49459262 saying 'all mages do'.

I am literally the person saying 'not all mages'.

>http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/changeling-the-lost/974244-dual-kith-update

2e take on the Dual Kith merit. I like it.

>>49459398
Oops. quotes myself. meant >>49459247

>>49459398

No, ALL mages through the use of Mage Sight and the Arcana realize that not everything, or most things, supernatural or otherwise are caused by or directly related to the Supernal.

This has been discussed at length by DaveB, the Mage 2e developer on numerous occasions

http://theonyxpath.com/signs-of-sorcery-mage-the-awakening-open-development/

"In second edition, we’ve focused Mage onto a core tone statement: Addicted to Mysteries. We’ve made a game whose protagonists become obsessed with occult conundrums, and seek out the experience of finding the supernatural in the world. Anything supernatural can be a Mystery, worthy of Obsession rewarded by Arcane Beats. We make it clear several times in the new core that the overwhelming majority of Mysteries aren’t caused by the Supernal World or the powers of mages (although everything can be examined using the Arcana, only mages’ spells are made with them)."

>>49459459
Well what the shit ever, anon. Sorry I don't know every open development blog for specifically 2nd edition of mage.

So the answer here is, 'mage fans are shitters, and don't know their own game'. Thanks for clarifying.

>>49459501
You're the shitter.

>>49459594
I know you are, but what am I.

>>49455426

A True Name is an archmaster-level (Practice of Excision. Seven dots) Space spell that password-protects your sympathetic links so they can only be used by someone who knows the secret.

Did you mean sympathetic name? (ie, what they were called by people when their sense of self developed as a baby?) if so, you can use it as a sympathetic yantra to cast on them at range.

>>49459783

What would it take to permanently change one's sympathetic name?

>>49459783
Sorry, I worded that poorly. I meant to ask if a well developed shadow name/identity could also function as a sympathetic name for casting.

I ask because I was trying to understand why it's a faux pas to use a Mage's shadow name in public.

Sorry if this is too nitpicky I'm new to this game system.

Hey /tg/ what species factor would you consider a barn owl? 2e MtA player wants an owl familiar and statting it out is being real 'fun' without the species factor shit.

Destroy it with Space 5 unmaking, cope with them suddenly losing all instinctive relationship to anyone they know (works vest on hermits, this) and wait for a new one to form naturally as they relate to other human beings.

It's a nuclear "you will lose every relationship you have" option. But if you're very very sure, a Master of Space can rip that bandaid off for you. They could even Make you a new one, but the spell would gave a duration and you'd be walking around with their nimbus and spell control in your most intimates.

A sympathetic name isn't a vestigial thing only there as a weakness, it's part of a healthy human's metaphysical makeup. It's inconvinient and often contradicts everything a mage believes about herself, but doing without one is only for sociopaths and the truly desperate.

>>49460334

Oh, right.

No, a mage's Shadow Name does nothing for you when casting on them.

It's not rude to use their Shadow Name in public, it's rude to use their sympathetic name. Because it can be used to attack them.

If a mage's Shadow Name is Khonsu and his sympathetic name is Garfield, he would really rather you called him Khonsu. If he's appropriately paranoid, he'll have a third false but apparently normal identity to pay his bills with and for you to call him around mixed mage/sleeper company.

Or, to use a popular movie example: his sympathetic name is Thomas Anderson, his Shadow Name is Neo.

>>49460408
Cool. Thank you, can't wait for signs of sorcery. :-)

Just concluded session 4 of solo promethean game.

This one included seducing gangbangers, and ouijea board seance sessions with dead kid ghosts.

The PC was hardcore investigating every death of a kid in town, since they believed that a pandoran they ran into was made from the corpses of kids. When they discovered so many of them had tragic deaths they looked into the details, realizing that many of them had deaths related to drug crime, including getting shot in the back while running drugs, or getting stabbed after bumping into drug dealers in a park.

While using mage friend to speak to the ghost of a kid who was shanked, gangbangers tried to kick them out of the park. But the PC is gold, and used Eros first to talk them down, then to just tell them to gtfo for the night.

Besides disturbing the mage with how quickly they turned to seduction, the mission was saved. Good thing too, the mage informed them that any longer, and the ghost would have freaked on the gangbangers.

Their mage friend triangulated the 'strange energy' he was reading in the town (he didn't realize it was a wasteland. He just knew it was bad news because prime and mind). Which put them outside an RV park owned by the same drug lord.

Suddenly, a side adventure to an apartment that USED to have the same wasteland energy coming off it. Turned out a previous Prommie came through town, and she was the one trying to make prometheans with kid parts. But now, they skipped town.

How the drug lord and the promethean are related, the PC still has to find out. How a drug lord's property is producing a wasteland large enough to influence the whole center of town, still more info needed. But now they realize the stakes, since they are worried the wasteland getting any stronger could send the whole city up in a firestorm, and they are concerned a promethean may be trapped in that RV park.

>>49460661
The last time someone in my group tried to seduce it turned into an absolute nightmare. A great deal of butt-touching and awkward grinding later they managed to kidnap the individual whom they had so thoroughly enraptured.

>>49460806
Thankfully it was just the promise of lewd stuff to come. Then they quickly turned to their alembic and were able to magically tell them to leave without needing to grind butts.

>>49459501
Mage fans have over the years toned down their shit, as the "we is kangs" mindset was proven wrong.
The haters still remember these fans though, and happily use these memories to misrepresent Mage fans.
They do this by explaining Mage from their point of view, which is the one gotten from hating Mage fans.
Thus people get on here and think those who spout nonsense are actual Mage fans.

It's pretty convoluted.

(Note, there are still a few old-style Mage fans, but they are in a minority, and laughed at by the rest of the community.)

>>49461619
>as the "we is kangs" mindset was proven wrong.
Mages are pretty strong.

>>49461649

Mages as a generalized group certainly comprise the top tier of power level in the broader supernatural community along with vampires, werewolves, etc. However, strong does not equate to all-powerful.

Think of the Dresden Files as an example. White Council wizards like Dresden are feared by lesser supernaturals like psychics and minor thaumaturges, and they often engage with other powerful beings like vampires and fae, but they hardly always come out on top.

>>49461689
>Mages as a generalized group certainly comprise the top tier of power level in the broader supernatural community along with vampires, werewolves, etc. However, strong does not equate to all-powerful.

The general top dog in the Fallen is Spirits though. Bastards be scary.

>>49461689
>However, strong does not equate to all-powerful.
What are Archmages if not all-powerful?

>>49461706
Even an archmage is a long way off all-powerful.

>>49461706
>>49461719

There's a BIG difference between your average mage and one of the tiny number of archmages.

However, archmages have their own tier of antagonists to contend with, including rank 6+ spiris, old gods, and other unspeakable horrors.

>>49461706
>What are Archmages if not all-powerful?

A tier below Archons, Exarchs and Annunaki.

>>49456084

Nobody.

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>>49461855
Mister Nobody?

>>49458798

>The show is at once really good and super trashy

In hindsight, Aaron Spelling was pretty much the perfect guy to produce a VtM show.

>>49462183
>Aaron Spelling was pretty much the perfect guy to produce a VtM show

Possibly, but I don't believe Vampire: 90210 is something the public is now clamoring for in 2016.

>>49436730
>What are some red flags you see in players?

They want to play CoD.

Fortunately I can always make them understand how good WoD is.
So we play WoD.
Always.

>>49462441
>They want to have meaning in the story
>I can always convince them that they suck and Becket rules

File: Chronicles of Darkness animal stat blocks.pdf (1B, 486x500px)

1B, 486x500px

>>49459828
>>49460379
Basically, Atamajakki wants to play a transgender character who changes their sympathetic name from their dead name.

Jakki is whatever the trans version of a babydyke is.

>>49460363
Here you go

>>49461619
>Mage fans have over the years toned down their shit, as the "we is kangs" mindset was proven wrong.
Mage fans were never actually like that, at least not as long as I've been into Mage. The ones who were all about minmaxing were well aware the setting and system treated things very differently.

>>49462575
>Mage fans were never actually like that
I think they were so at the very start. When they started to map out the cosmology.

>>49462441
>Fortunately I can always make them understand how good WoD is.
I don't believe you.
Try me.
Give me your pitch. Gameline of your choice.

>>49462579
God-Machine fans are going the same road these days... fuck this.

>>49462627
There are a few Dark Mother-is-everything guys too. Not sure how much of that is trolling though.

File: Planeswalker's Guide to the World of Darkness.png (7MB, 1871x2759px) Image search: [Google]

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>>49462579
>When they started to map out the cosmology.
That has nothing to do with being a mage fan, that's a thing that people do for the sake of it. It's not a Mage thing, it's a player thing.

We as players want charts and cosmologies. Mage attracts players who like charting things, but that's only because Mage has the most ability to go through to all of those places, while other characters can only go one place. But it's not some "oh no, Mages think everything is Supernal!" thing. Remember: It was Changeling books that tried to say the Arcadias were the same.

I didn't make pic related because I'm a Mage fan. I made it because I like connecting things.

>>49462627
Literally no one does that. At best you have the theory that the Principle and the God-Machine are connected, which is even suggested in the book. I'm in these threads every day and I've never seen anyone suggest that Father Wolf was created by the God-Machine or something.

>>49462634
Beast itself says that, though it's pretty clear that Beast's connection is Goetic and not literal, despite what Beasts themselves say. They are after all literally Goetia.

That said I do think the Dark Mother is Luna

>>49462634
>>49462627
>>49462579
Nevermind that all of you are complaining about one of the things that makes the Chronicles of Darkness great: The ability to be flexible about everything, and to potentially make every line metaphysically important.
For instance, who gave Mages their powers? The Dragons were obviously Pangaeans.

>>49462746
What in the hell is celestial sphere?

>>49462746
>That said I do think the Dark Mother is Luna

Is Luna an aspect of the Dark Mother, or the other way around?

>>49462746

The setting and dimension tidbits in Imperial Mysteries, Mage's archmage sourcebook, also contributed to the desire of many to map out a consistent and complete CofD cosmology/ dimension map (e.g., story hooks like *suggestions* that the God Machine is a fallen supernal god trying to return).

If and when other splats receive such a high-power level sourcebook, such as Vampire's upcoming elder sourcebook, A Thousand Years of Night, I assume the splat supremacy arguments will focus on them rather than mages.

>>49462825
>If and when other splats receive such a high-power level sourcebook, such as Vampire's upcoming elder sourcebook, A Thousand Years of Night, I assume the splat supremacy arguments will focus on them rather than mages.

I dunno. It never did with Equinox Road. It rather enflamed Mage Supremacy.

>>49462768
>But in the Celestial Sphere, the stars themselves have their Spirits. And they have quite a bit to say to each other in their grand Heavenly Courts, their strange bickering on a world quaking scale
I don't actually remember what book that's from, though.

>>49462806
That's really six of one, half dozen of the other, isn't it?

>>49462825
Mage is, frankly, the only gameline that really facilitates that kind of "secret reality of the world" sort of thing, but that's also sort of Mage's schtick. But most Mage characters and Mage players don't think that everything ever is literally created by some Supernal aspect. They may be governed by Supernal aspects, but so are mundane physical realities.

Mage is really just a framework for mapping and understanding things. It's not actually a matter of supremacy.

And I doubt anything about Vampires will reveal that they're behind anything. Ironically, they're the most likely (aside from the Arisen) to set themselves up as ancient Gods, but ultimately they really don't matter in the grand scheme of things. You certainly wouldn't want to get on the wrong side of one, lest you find yourself dealing with a grasp stretched out through ages and dark power fueled by centuries of stolen life. But they aren't the metaphysical source of anything.
The Strix, maybe, those are clearly little children of the Dark Mother but not the Kindred.

>>49462897

Just like with Imperial Mysteries, I assume A Thousand Years of Night will include antagonists appropriate for Vampire characters of such a high power level.

Maybe we'll see super-Strix or callbacks to the Rome sourcebook with some interesting bits about Vampire creation mythology or their secret masters.

>>49462746
my favorite way to handle conflicting comsmologies like this is "just say yes".
"Are the two arcadia's the same?"
Yes
"are they different?"
yes
"those two statements are contradictory"
yes.

>>49463229
Yes.

>>49463281
Yes.

>>49461619
>as the "we is kangs" mindset was proven wrong.
Unfortunate, Kang the Conqueror is great

>>49463304
Yes.

>>49462299

You're right. The best producer to take on Vampire in 2016 is Brian Fuller.

So noon of what timezone does the kickstarter go live?

>>49463494

Eastern Standard Time.

So, we have exactly ten minutes to make a Scion general.

>>49463516
Wait for the KS to go up so you can include the link in the OP

>>49463229
I just go with the supernal being a dream/representative realm of the beyond where stuff can be pulled from for magic.

Is Arcadia the same as Arcadia? Heck no, there isn't even a made up equivalent of the primal wild, why would the supernal Arcadia be the real deal?

Can they open a portal to the hedge SK they can get to Arcadia because of their connection to supernal ideal of Arcadia? Yes.

So mages get to eat cake, they just aren't somehow roaming everyone's special places in the supernal.

Honestly, I don't see too much conflict in the cosmology except with places that have no described location as far as i know. Like Dust, lower depths, etc.

Scion KS is live. I can't seem to link it, I guess kickstarter links are spam to 4chan.

>>49463683

And a thread is up: >>49463779

So we can go there, or get a better thread or something.

Do vampires/werewolves feel pain from mundane things like bee stings?

>>49463837
It's entirely possible for a bee sting to send a wolf into Death Rage

>>49463837

Yep, though it wouldn't even count as bashing damage like it might for a Mortal, depending on how nasty the bee sting gets.

>>49463837
Yeah.

I think only prometheans don't feel pain. (They just register what is happening. 'Oh an insect punctured my skin. My arm is inflamed. Someone stabbed me.')

But despite being able to heal through most stuff, I think werewolves and vampires still 'feel' it. Though maybe vampires less so.

>>49463843
What? How?

>>49463902
>But despite being able to heal through most stuff, I think werewolves and vampires still 'feel' it.

Werewolves most def feel it. They have enhanced senses and a lot of stuff like that.

Although, the venom might be purged before the conscious mind realizes something has happened.

>>49463837
Don't think so. Poisons and venoms have to be pretty rad to affect werewolves.

Even a starting werewolf is going to reduce the toxicity of a regular bee sting to 0. So... He'd feel the sting itself, but nothing else.

>>49463902
Werewolves feel a lot of pain. Their natural healing is described as the muscles and bones forcibly twisting and extending themselves and reforging, and the only moment of bliss they have from this is when they heal through Essence use.

>>49463936
Well I feel anon is stretching. But if the pain put a bashing box, that pushed them into enough damage to auto-trigger a deathrage roll, yeah.

Or it could just be a kuruth trigger for other reasons, like something traumatic that they are reminded of or something (remember that time werewolf Johnny died to giant spirit bees? Oh God bees! I'm so angry!)

>>49463864
I was thinking of a spirit antagonist 'sweet nectar' for a future crossover game which has been sending swarms of bees/wasps/ants/other vespidae out that sting and paralyze their victims as they slowly absorb vitae and essence to make some corrupt honey.

I just didn't know if it would be a legitimate threat.

>>49464004
Just say the swarm's numbers overwhelm their natural resistance to it. Or have the spirit enhance/corrupt the venom so it hurts magically.

Problem solved (and a way for the players to realize something is weird)

>>49464004

Oh, well, if spirit fuckery is involved, you can make it hurt quite a bit. Probably still does bashing unless it's a huge swarm but still.

>>49464004
This is like my worst nightmare come true. You're a twisted one I like it.

>>49463997
Just taking damage is never a Kuruth trigger. Has to be from silver for that to happen.

Hell, someone walking up to a werewolf and shooting him in the gut with a pistol isn't a trigger.

>>49464136
Unless their trigger is the scent of blood and they're way out of harmony.

>>49462746
>>49462768
I'm of the opinion that Luna is an incredibly powerful spirit and the Dark Mother is a manifestation of humanities fear, primal urges, and connection to the supernatural.

>>49439976
Describe them as same clan from eastern europe only without their OMG SUCH INHUMAN MUCH ALIEN stuff. Portray them as trying to obtain power over both themselves and the world yet not making big strides in either nor willing to give up one for sake of the other. Trancendency is their ultimate goal, but they get too attached to the material means of achieving it. Also add that they dont actually know to what trancendant state they arise since some of their elder found themselves in the evolutionary dead end.
tl,dr: A clan with an ability to improve them selves but not the know-how.

>>49464155
Yeah, well, then it isn't the shot that breaks them out, but the fact that they are bleeding. Mishandling opening a pizza box could send them into death rage then.
Or a woman on her period.
(though... it does specify human blood. So perhaps the werewolf getting shot doesn't rage until AFTER he tears the asshole who did it a new one.)

>>49464136
Is damage no longer a rage trigger? I thought pushing into last boxes or seeing a friend hurt triggered in 2e? Or am I mixing two things up?

>>49464209
A packmate getting hurt might be one, yes. But it's not for all werewolves.

Damage is only a trigger if it's of silver.

>>49464193
I wanted to focus on the inhuman alien stuff, but do away with the spooky murder grotesque shit. I wanted them to be essentially a Ventrue version of the Toreadors, but with vampire plastic surgery instead of more traditional art. Basically aristocratic artists who's art and ideals would unsettle and even terrify others.

That kind of "we can be beautiful AND better" thing would be for the ones who do join the Ordo, but every one of them isn't likely to do that.

>>49464549

Except the whole point of the clan is that they're all about being the feudal lord, or trying to become the feudal lord. They are the genteel lord of the Kine, who display total control over their subjects. L Visscitude is essentially a mastery of the self in the most base, physical way, the Fisher King taken to a body horror conclusion.

This is why your efforts ultimately came out as the "double venture" joke: all the individual themes of the clan are pretty well covered elsewhere in Requiem. So you either have to own that they're double Venture and make that interesting to play in a thematic and mechanical sense, or just make a new bloodline entirely with these new themes that you have.

>>49464549
That would actually be rather well, it would mark the diffenrence between the elder core of the clan and its loyal progeny and less dedicated newcomers who only care about their appearance.
Also, might want to make them more traditional than aristocratic. I mean, make them have traditions and custom they actually aspire to not because of peer pressure, but of both expediency and respect such as not commiting diablerie because it literally turns you into junkie, granting shelter to those of the clan, supporting self improvement in kine and kidred alike e.t.
Just don't over do them or you will make another clan of pompuos snobs with superiority complex and we already have plenty of those.

>>49464728
It was DOUBLE VENTRUE because I focused way too much on the fact that they're so regal and lordly.

>>49464763
I'm going for more of a... well, basically how most people seem to have played Tzimisce.
Have you read Eragon? It's a shitty series, so I don't blame you if you haven't.
There's this scene in book two where they have a feast at the elf place and there are elves coming out of the woodwork that look... well, pretty fucked up. They've got animal features and they've made themselves look drastically different from elves. The explanation given is that they're elves who got bored and started bodysculpting themselves for the fun of it, and the rest of elvish society sees these old transelvenists as being kind of creepy.

Although admittedly I'm half-remembering it and probably reading too much into it. The second book had some genuinely good parts when the author insert wasn't around, but it was still not a good book.

Do the aesthetic/logical impairments you receive from soaking damage with resilience cost anything to heal, or do they heal for free like other damage that isn't significant enough to be wounds?

If a player gets their arm blown off but fully soaks it do they have to spend vitae to regenerate it?

>>49465015
Well I played my tzim as a evilutionary biologist that despite following the path of the metamorphosys is just that - a path and not a goal of itself.
We seem to prefer different archetypes of Fiends, I generally liked the scholatic part of their identity.

>>49465134
Visual damage that has been soaked is healed for 1 BP after slumber. If limb is torn off but quickly reattached it counts as superficial damage.

>>49465015

Yeah, that's more or less what I said. They're a pretty lordly and regal clan, and you're clicking then in the Clan that's already way into being the lords of all they survey. You can't really avoid doubling up on Venture qualities with a straight on conversion, unless you pull a Khabit and just make a new clan with the Discipline in it.

Y'all Nigga's Backing Scion 2e Yet?

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/200664283/scion-2nd-edition-tabletop-rpg/posts/1688417

>>49465474

We already have a thread for it:

>>49463802

Go on, run free. I would kick in but I'm far too poor.

>>49465419
It's more that I didn't do much but reaffirm "they're totes lords". Obviously they're Lords. I should focus on the aspects that make them DIFFERENT Lords, instead of repeating the typical stuff.

>>49465474
Yes. See >>49463683 and >>49463802
>And a thread is up: >>49463779 →

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>>49436730
Is there a guide for complete retards when it comes to nWoD character creation?

Friend is trying to put together a Genius game, but there's so many Important Things to keep track of that I can't keep up with even making my guy.

>>49466544
>Genius

Get out

>>49466544
>Genius Game

Just don't

>>49466544
Hahahahahahaha.

Well if genius pretends to be a real game, it will have an example character creation page that summarizes everything.

>>49466544
>Genius
Look just use a real splat.

>>49466544
Step 1: Put down Genius
Step 2: Pick up any official nWoD game.
Step 3: Convince friend to run that game instead.
Step 4: Read the character creation rules in that game.

>>49466544
Are you having problems with the whole 5/4/3 11/7/4 thing? Or about all the Genius stuff?

One is fixable, the other is not

>>49443030
It got changed becaue the guy running the show had a sick mother and didn't like the implication.

>>49466997

That subtitle never really felt right for the game anyway. Then again, I feel that way about a huge number of the subtitles for CofD games.

>>49466689
Yeah... it's all the Genius proper nouns.

>>49467197
No way I'm even going to poison my computer with the Genius PDF, but check if there is a quick summary page near the middle or end of the character creation section. It should list off everything you NEED to pick, and probably have a link or page number.

>>49467197
Sorry bucko, you're fucked.

Usually tho you just pick your merits and a few powers and go with the flow, hoping that everything works out. Ask your ST if you could switch a dot or two mid-game once you understand what they actually fucking mean

>You can change your seeming in 2e if you go on a quest in the hedge
Fucking. What.

>>49467343
YOU CAN CHANGE YOUR SEEMING IN 2E IF YOU GO ON A QUEST IN THE HEDGE!

>>49467402

FUCKING. WHAT.

>>49467431
>>49467402
Are you making fun of me? Is that what you're doing?

>>49467431

Fucking. Verb. To fuck.

1.To have sexual intercourse with.
2.Slang. to treat unfairly or harshly.
3.Slang. to meddle (usually followed by around or with).

>>49467343

Read the spoilers. It readily explains the why and how on changing a character's Seeming. It's very difficult and rare, and the rules are minimal, but it's provided as an option for players.

>>49467698
I have read the spoilers, I just find the notion really dumb.

>>49467501

Nah, I just had this idea for a joke in my head and it didn't work out as well as I thought, but oh well.

For what it's worth, I get why it's there, and it's an interesting idea, but making it an actual rule just makes it a bit silly. The logistics of it don't really follow, but then again I'm pretty sure that's intentional: the only way to change an integral part of you is to do something extremely stupid.

>>49467876
Ah alright man, sorry I didn't get it.

But yeah, like, I GET the reason for it and it even technically helps me since my 1e changeling doesn't get a seeming in 2e due to her being 'freed' by her keeper. But I just have a bit of a issue with there being a rule, even a loose one, that lets you change a fucking X-splat.

>>49467767
Your Seeming is now a representation of your escape from Arcadia, rather than your time in Arcadia.

So going back into the Hedge, going crazy deep in close to Arcadia, then finding your way back out again with all the trials that will face you seems sensible to me.

>>49468241
This part kind of irks me, since it is such a heavy change to 'creation' of changelings.

Like, the idea of your changeling 'working the smoke stacks' in a factory and coming out with a seeming related to smoke is cool and lets you build a story.

But with it set to represent your escape... you could spend your whole time in Arcadia as a maid or something, but since you crawled through the fire of an oven to escape Arcadia, you would come out elemental or something right?

Just... seems like a weird shift in focus. Not bad, but an odd choice.

>>49468308
Your Kith represents your time in Arcadia. And that still affects your appearance.

>>49468308
You act like things have changed, but they really haven't.

How you escaped changes you just as much as your Durance.

>>49468692
Your Seeming is also apparent from who you are even before you were taken, so it's not like you suddenly make a 180 (though there's no reason you couldn't).

>>49468692
I never felt that from the changeling core for 1st edition. Maybe I just overlooked something you can point out, but I never got that out of the book.

>>49459408
>Casually gain a secondary kith
Fuckin' how man, what is he doing making things all wishy washy.

>>49468743
Because there's no reason not to?

>>49468756
I'd think there's plenty of reason to not casually change your entire fucking body and weaken your blessing only to gain a secondary weak power

>>49468799
Yes there is. Plenty.
You also seem to have read the merit wrong. It's not like you're in-character casually picking it up.

>>49468308
>but since you crawled through the fire of an oven to escape Arcadia
Seeming isn't determined as much by the simple nature of acts, but by both act and intent.
So you could have been a goddamn manservant in a Durance of unending etiquette and protocol.

Then one day you go bullshit fucking insane, tear off your constricting clothing, smashing people in the face with your drinks tray, and charge out of your Keeper's palace in shame and disgrace, in complete disregard to the procol that has been drilled into your brain over your Durance.

Instant Beast.

Or as a Maid, you are growing increasingly full of despair, and see so long as you care and fear your keeper, holding on to your human, mortal frailties and perceptions, you'll be kept there forever. So you shatter your fragile heart, and walk out as an Elemental.

Or perhaps you replace your fallible mortal parts with infallible metal, wood and stone, your fear filled eyes, your frightened heart, your shaking hands, then once you're so distant from your original form, the Keeper's guards can't distinguish you from the rest of the furiture or statutes, and you escape as a Wizened, finding solace in inanimate and your craft.

>>49468799
>secondary weak power
Many Kith blessings don't rely upon your Wyrd.
Those are probably better choices.

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>>49469093
>Instant Beast.
Sounds more like an Ogre to me.
But Beast works, too.

Let's do this
https://a.pomf.cat/vjzcla.pdf

Rolled 2, 1 + 1 = 4 (2d10 + 1)

>>49469151
>Sounds more like an Ogre to me.
Ogres are patient, they wait and when the times comes they strike with such ferocity that anything but escape is a ludicrous prospect. They spend their Durance in preparation, making themselves into both a weapon and a suit of armour.

Beasts are beastial, they disregard social practice and convention, and act like a wild animal to escape.

Rolled 5, 1, 10 = 16 (3d10)

>>49469182
I don't think I'd characterize Ogres as "patient".
Brutality is what defines them.

Anyone have the two page fillable character sheet from Mr Gone's page for Mage: The Awakening 2nd Ed? I only have the 4 page, and that's a bit more than I need.

>>49469256
Just... go to Mr Gone's site?

>>49469182
I forgot you can only roll one kind of dice at a time.

>>49469280
>Just... go to Mr Gone's site?
Can't, shit's down.

>>49469241
Then you'd better read the Seeming rules from second edition. Seemings have gone through some changes

>>49462806
>Is Luna an aspect of the Dark Mother, or the other way around?
you think the moon was created after fear?

>>49469507
Oh, the moon is older than human fear. But is the current SPIRIT of the moon older than human fear?

>>49469626
>Oh, the moon is older than human fear. But is the current SPIRIT of the moon older than human fear?
why wouldn't it be?

>>49469633
The moon would need to be a pretty big influence on human lives to be that powerful. If people were, I dunno, afraid of the night, it'd be just the thing to feed it.

>>49469626

Luna's at the level of power where she can just retroactively have existed for all time as the one and only spirit of the moon, so

>>49469654
And so is the Dark Mother.

>>49469670
But the Dark Mother is from beast, so who gives a fuck about her?

>>49469647
>The moon would need to be a pretty big influence on human lives to be that powerful.
moon was a big influence on earth (what with gravity) for eons before humanity was even a thing
then was a huge influence on humanity once they became a thing
essence is there before humans were, before life was


>If people were, I dunno, afraid of the night, it'd be just the thing to feed it.
if people were afraid of the night the moon was there to help (moonlight = lack of darkness)

luna as aspect of fear is silly

>>49469681
>luna as aspect of fear is silly
Why? She's an aspect of madness, and already Abyss-tainted. Why not add more to her crossover stuff?

>>49469670
the dark mother might not exist
and relies entirely on humanity (and beasts/monsters)

>>49469677
>I didn't like a book so everything in it is irrelevant
Well, I guess people do the same thing to the God Machine, and I do it to Vampire, so good point.

>>49469695
Madness is an aspect of Luna
Luna is not an aspect of Madness

>>49469677
Luna is from Werewolf, so who gives a fuck about her?

The Dark Mother probably doesn't even exist, like Oracles.

>>49469697
>and relies entirely on humanity (and beasts/monsters)
Oh and, you know, ALL SUPERNATURAL CREATURES.

>>49469718
>This Seer propaganda

>>49469710
>>49469695
>>49462806
The Moon Goddess and the Fear Goddess are two sides of the same coin. It's not that one is some kind of "aspect" or mask that she wears. She's both of them. She has more than one mantle.

>>49469698
Oh no not everything, I quiet like Heros (The non-insane ones that got like a paragraph of, "We aren't talking about those.") I just never really found the dark mother all that intresting and was suprised to see someone talking about it.

>>49469715
Mages, duh.

>>49469727
>Oh and, you know, ALL SUPERNATURAL CREATURES.
i said beasts/monsters
but not all supernatural creatures
spirits don't exhibit fear, either do angels or ghosts unless it's soething focused fo rthem

>>49469718
No. If she didn't exist, the kinship powers of Beasts wouldn't work.
They rely on a being like her to function.

>>49469736
>The Moon Goddess and the Fear Goddess are two sides of the same coin. It's not that one is some kind of "aspect" or mask that she wears. She's both of them. She has more than one mantle.
except the fear goddess has one mantle

and the moon goddess is god of many things

i think the only reason you mix them is because they're both introduced as females

because there's nothing else that links them

>>49469745
>spirits don't exhibit fear
Why not? They are sentient, aren't they?

>>49469737
>Mages, duh.
Why should they though? She's powerful, sure, but she's just a part of the Fallen.
Any and all Archmasters are by definition above her.

>>49469710
Actually, this is a good question instead of just something to shrug off.

The moon doesn't inherently have an aspect of lunacy to its nature. There is nothing about the moon itself about causes craziness. Luna had to have taken on an influence of lunacy after a ton of time of people acting crazy because of her presence.

So the spirit of straight up madness/lunacy, the one who is sort of the big granddaddy god-spirit of madness, would have more power than her in that respect.

It is even possible that they would have some relation, if the moon has taken such a prominent role as a madness spirit.

>>49469788
That's because her "wisdom" part, the crescent moon, decided to study the Abyss. This turned her insane.
This info is in Signs of the Moon.