Horus Heresy General /hhg/

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>>49402450
Let's have a change of pace, boys. Tell the class about your dudes, post minis, and tell us about your last game.

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Anyone put the CSM terminator lord cape on a tartaros suit?

>>49402742
I would at least send that cape back to the tailor. Sometimes a battle damaged cape looks better, but it says something when you're good enough to fight without your cape being destroyed.

>>49402562
>implying I have the time to play games

>>49402562
I am crafting my blood angels as a far ranging crusade force, sent out into the inky void ahead of Sanguinius and his golden Baal boys. they have a the Pre-Sanguinius XI legion preference for jet bikes and drop pod assaults, combines with a heavy terminator, furioso dreadnought (represented by cortus dreads) and destroyer corp...

>>49402760
Fulgrim, please go.

>>49402777
>XI legion

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>>49402742
That looks a little like the Huscarls' capes.
>>49402450
>Nothing interesting to report.
Whaat? We were doing the Terran Cage defended by the Meatgrinder Trinity, Syber has made some people gay, talked about UBigU UCustodesU, Bjorn fanboys got BTFO by none other than Laurie, Curzefag got in a fight and a IWanon had a hard time making his Original Dudes.

>>49402994
Aren't Huscarls' capes made of fur?

This one looks like Vulkan's

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>>49403018
I thought most capes were fur on top and ragged 300 cape on the bottom. Dorn wears the red cape alone.

>>49402956
oh... feck

>>49402994
Wait Laurie was in the last thread?

>>49403380
No, there was the link to his confirmation of "of course that is not Bjorn"
http://z13.invisionfree.com/The_First_Expedition/index.php?showtopic=23&st=2445&#entry40000642

I doubt any of them frequents this site.

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>>49403406
ADB most likely does; since a year ago we were shitting on him and discussing how daddy issues would possibly ruin Master of Mankind and the same day he posted this

>>49403507
Daddy issues has already ruined most of the Black Library HH books.

>>49402562
Fun team game yesterday, my WE with some Mechanicum vs DG and some more Mechanicum. Highlights:
>My Kharybdis, Dreadclaw, and DreadPod landed with no scatter
>Red Butchers Devoured saved 4 wounds from Durak Rask's thunder hammer and then wiped an entire heavy support squad with just his power fist attacks
>Kharn and Friends multi-charged 3 rhinos and took a combined 7 HP (sad face), one of those rhinos then killed itself with its own chem munitions
>My javelin survived a dreadnought charge
>Two dreadnoughts exploded each other at the same time
>Kharn and Friends broke from some Grave Wardens and proceeded to fail their regroup check, then got fucked by Castellax
>3 Thanatars are a good thing to have on your team
>Scoria fucked all over my back line,killing at least one of said Thanatars
In the end, I lost every single model but took half the DG and some robots with me, a few of my partner's Thallax and a Thanatar remained, and Scoria does what Scoria wants. All in all, good slaughter. I've come to the conclusion that based on how I like to play my World Eaters, I'll probably never beat our Mechanicum players, but I can sure make it tough for them.

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>>49403597
Those highlights make it sound like you were winning, but then
>In the end, I lost every single model

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>>49403406
>BJORN DOESN'T HAVE A POWER CLAW AT PROSPERO.

Why is this man so butthurt?

>>49403656
Probably because he is having a sperg panic anxiety based on deep inside his mind he knows that Games Workshop doesn't value canon.

>>49403641
Against the Death Guard list on its own, I would've had it, but all those I4 power fists and S6 AP3 bolt cannons from the Castellax really fucked me over.

>>49403597
>In the end, I lost every single model
>Scoria does what Scoria wants.
You learned it the hard way. Don't doubt our boy Scoria because he'll show you why he's the king of this pumpkin patch.

>>49403656
Horus heresy collected visions is reference info not canon

>>49403656
Best Bjron.

>>49403967
Maybe they shouldn't have put all that fluff in there then, detailing the Heresy.

Is or was the Horus Heresy card game canon?

Why aren't Gorgons Assault Vehicles?

How good are Sons of Horus? Do you need their special units to win?

>>49404057
Might make them good. Can't have that.

>>49404073
RIP.

I really want to have solar auxilia axemen/militia huscarls jumping off a vehicle and chopping up Marines. Would a stormlord work?

>>49403656
He gets the power claw not too long after Prospero.

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>>49403967
Those are some silly "references".
>>49404113
Does the SA or Imperial Militia have access to any Assault Vehicle?

>>49404187
Why would they give a nobody bolter marine a lightning claw?

>>49404299
He wasn't given it, he steals it from the armoury while the iron priest isn't looking.

From Scars, if you're wondering.

>>49404316
Why would they let a nobody bolter marine keep his ill gotten gains?

>>49404299
>>49404316
He steals it in wolf's claw.

>>49404339
He steals it in Prospero Burns

>>49404348
He steals it in Know No Fear

>>49404339
>>49404348
>>49404359
>Gee Bjorn! How come your primarch lets you have three lightning claws?

>>49404042
I'm redirecting you to standard GW policy on fluff; which is
>anything that hasn't been retconned is canon

>>49404359
He steals it in Master of Mankind

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>>49404113
>I really want to have solar auxilia axemen/militia huscarls jumping off a vehicle and chopping up Marines. Would a stormlord work?
Well, it's open-topped. Lots of people use them. But convincing pre-posthumans to charge posthumans sounds like wishful thinking.

The Gorgon doesn't exist because a) it's on the Macharius chassis which isn't in the game, and b) they don't want you to be able to make an army that feels like a possible 40k Imperial Guard list. That's why there are no Chimera chassis vehicles either.

>>49404316
>>49404329
>>49404339
>>49404348
>>49404359
>>49404385
>>49404404

Bjorn confirmed Blood Raven's founder

>>49404414
the gorgon is a DT for cult militias

>>49404393
So Visions IS (or was) canon? I'm getting mixed messages here.

Also, what if something hasn't been retconned, but doesn't fit or make sense in the context of all the other fluff?

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>>49404420
So that's why Russ left him behind.

>>49404339
Dagnabit. Foiled again.

>>49404414
>The Gorgon doesn't exist

Gorgon is the only Dedicated Transport Imperial Militia gets. Also, it's not canonically on a Macharius hull, since the thing has existed way before the Macharius was even a thing. The epic model of it looks more like a Baneblade hull.

>they don't want you to be able to make an army that feels like a possible 40k Imperial Guard list.

If Army can't get Gorgons, Chimeras nor Rhinos, what are they suppose to use?

>>49404434
The stuff in visions that goes against the Horus Heresy BL series isn't canon. The stuff that doesn't is.
>Also, what if something hasn't been retconned, but doesn't fit or make sense in the context of all the other fluff
Like?

>>49404488
>Like?

Shamans, why the Emperor was created, Emperor being born in Central Anatolia in 8000 B.C. to regular people, etc.

>>49404278
>That picture
Hey baby, how far up do those legs go?

>>49404527
All of that is still canon; just hasn't been told (though I expect we'll get a few nods in MoM).

And Emps being born in Central Anatolia in olden times is still correct; seeing as it's mentioned that he gave Horus a ring from his original tribe

>>49404393
>>anything that hasn't been retconned is canon

So Half Eldar Ultramarine astropaths are canon?

>>49404527
Wasn't the case that the Emperor was still born as the Shamans' reincarnation, born Perpetual and a powerful psyker, and went to Molech go gain god-like powers?
>>49404577
Isn't Nastase's position currently occuped by Tigurius? That's from the time the XIIIth was traitor, legions were chapters and Dorn was a regular Imperial Commander.

>>49404527
>>49404551
We don't know who exactly created the Original Perpetuals which the Emperor are a part of. We know they "crafted" to be resistant to Chaos, though.

However, the Emperor wasn't born with godlike powers. He had to ask the Chaos Gods to give it to him in exchange for a promise.

>>49404551
So why did the Shamans put all their souls into one body to escape Chaos, when there's a whole bunch of immortals who can regenerate just fine?

Why the Emperor, and amalgamation of powerful psykers, need power from the dark gods? Why is he powering himself with the tainted Chaos energy when he's suppose to run off of the untainted pure warp energy? How come the dark gods, who have been watching the Emperor for some time, give him their power?

>seeing as it's mentioned that he gave Horus a ring from his original tribe

But wasn't that Persian? Persia is in an entirely different location and wasn't even a thing until thousands of years later.

>>49404577
Seeing as it's been made clear that anyone not human enough can't take the geneseed process; as well as Tigrius not having eldar genes anymore

>>49404622
The character was never a Space Marine, only an astropath working for Ultramarines.

>>49404622
That guy wasn't a space marine. He was just wearing power armor. Back then everyone were power armor identical to marines.

Anyways, Fabius implanted geneseed into a Tau once.

>>49404618
>So why did the Shamans put all their souls into one body to escape Chaos, when there's a whole bunch of immortals who can regenerate just fine?
Well they most likely couldn't have become perpetuals
>Why the Emperor, and amalgamation of powerful psykers, need power from the dark gods?

Because obviously those powerful psykers aren't enough

>Why is he powering himself with the tainted Chaos energy when he's suppose to run off of the untainted pure warp energy?
Retconned; all warp energy is now Chaos energy

>How come the dark gods, who have been watching the Emperor for some time, give him their power?
What better way to win than to get the most powerful psyker of all time on your side?

>But wasn't that Persian? Persia is in an entirely different location and wasn't even a thing until thousands of years later
Nope; it's described as being from the Neolithic

>>49404618
>when there's a whole bunch of immortals who can regenerate just fine?

The Perpetuals were crafted alongside the Emperor, apparently. Maybe the shamans didn't want to bet on a single guy so they made more.

>How come the dark gods, who have been watching the Emperor for some time, give him their power?

Just as planned.

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>>49402562
I've spent far too much time and energy for this, hopefully it's not too cringy..


Night Lords Legion 127th Reinforced Terror Company "The Court of Malediction"
-------------------------------------------------
-reinforced with an assault marine detachment drawn from several
veteran assault companies of the VIII Legion and a heavy armoured squadron from the
Legion's mechanized reserve in preparation for post-Isstvan V operations
-often deployed as a dedicated harrowing force during the Night Lords offensive in the Thramas
sector


Notable campaigns:
+The Desolation of Kormagor Rift 947.M30+
-127th Company of the VIII Legion censured by the Imperial operational command
after purging the compliant colonies of the Ychea system for suspected xenos taint and collaboration
+Pacification of the Cayex Cluster 962.M30+
-the inner worlds of the cluster surrender into compliance after the 127th unleashes
Exterminatus-class weapons and annihilates the outlying systems of the region
+Thalarisian Genocide 004.M31+
-The 127th suffers heavy losses after the insurgent hive-moons of Thalaris III
engage self-destruction protocols and release horrors of the Old Night in retaliation
to the Night Lords assault during the final battle of the campaign


Additional notes:
-Initially reported to be missing after the conclusion of the
Thramas Crusade, later reports indicate that the company had
become increasingly unstable after the disappearance of the
Primarch, development which culminated in the sacking of
several traitor- and loyalist-aligned worlds on the Ultima Segmentum
-Affiliated with a number of 'Blackshield' Astartes warbands
-Current allegiances unknown

>if only I had more light and a better camera

>>49404618
>>49404680
>>49404698
Back when the Shamans comitted colective suicide, the warp wasn't so turbulent. In fact they did it because up until that time they had been able to reincarnate without problem, but they knew times were changeing.
So they became a single perpetual entity.

>>49402562
What I thought was an original idea ended up being not original.

>>49404711
Fluff as good as the models.

>>49404680
>Well they most likely couldn't have become perpetuals

So the Emperor is not a perpetual?

>Because obviously those powerful psykers aren't enough

For what?

>all warp energy is now Chaos energy

Retconned where?

>What better way to win than to get the most powerful psyker of all time on your side?

So why didn't they approach him before? Or try to possess him? They've been able to do it with other psykers, why must the Emperor have a special portal communion? And if he's resisting their attempts, shouldn't that tell them something about his motivations?

>Nope; it's described as being from the Neolithic

All references I can find say it's Persian, made a year before the Emperor's birth.

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>>49401746

Well done, fellow son of the Lion!
I hope you showed them what their meatgrinder-ness meant against the survivors of Rangda.

>>49402562

I'm working on the last touches before I prime my Praetor. Other than that I'm waiting for the resin components of my Damocles to soak before I start putting that together. If I can dig up whatever notepad file I wrote the praetors fluff in I'll try and share it with the thread.

I've also got a box of Imperial Knight: Renegade sitting unopened. I'm trying to work myself into the mood to put together two knights for an allied detachment. I'll probably magnetize them as fully as I can, but if anyone could advise me how best to outfit them that would be appreciated.

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>>49404787
>that beep boop

>>49404774
>So the Emperor is not a perpetual?
Never said that; I'm talking about the shamans themselves

>For what?
For the shit that he planned to do

>Retconned where?


In some codex or the other

>
So why didn't they approach him before? Or try to possess him? They've been able to do it with other psykers, why must the Emperor have a special portal communion? And if he's resisting their attempts, shouldn't that tell them something about his motivations?

You don't know if they approached or try to possess him before. And as I said; Emps isn't other psykers. And Chaos might have been fooled (or intentionally let themselves be fooled) to his actions

>>49404698
>Maybe the shamans didn't want to bet on a single guy so they made more.

Then they shouldn't have put all their souls into the Emperor and instead spread them out among the perpetuals and live forever without needing to reincarnate through the warp.

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>>49404787
>>49404818
Looks like a Shady Cortex merchant or something

>>49404844
>Never said that

So if he is a perpetual, then they can inhabit perpetuals, so why didn't they inhabit several perpetuals and spread themselves around rather than put all their soul eggs into one perpetual basket to get snuffed out in a freak accident or something?

>For the shit that he planned to do

What was he planning that needed such a lust for vengeance?

>You don't know if they approached or try to possess him before.

If he was, why did he turn them down? If he wasn't why not, if they wanted this powerful psyker on their side?

>Emps isn't other psykers

So what's special about him, if he's not really strong, powered by the pure untainted warp, etc.?

>>49404884
>Hello, do you want to talk about Our Lord the Omnissiah?

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>>49404774
>Retconned where?

Picture related.

Also....

>Chaos Undivided is a very confusing concept, especially due to the way one particular edition made it a little "gamey" and changed the lore quite a lot. That was in a very expansionist phase of the hobby, so a lot of players came into 40K seeing it as the truth, but there's a pretty simple way to view the Warp in moments like this.

>The Four Powers are Chaos.

>There's no Chaos Undivided, and references to Undivided as a "thing" are rarer and rarer. No more Mark of Chaos Undivided, for example. No more references to daemons of Chaos Undivided (not that there were many, anyway). The Warp essentially is the Four Powers, and the millions and billions of lesser entities aligned with them, composed of them, born from them, and so on.

>The worship of Chaos Undivided is the worship of Chaos as a concept, made manifest in the presence of the pantheon. It's the worship of all four gods equally, or the ignorance of all of them, not realising that they're The Truth of the warp. They can say they pray to the concept of Chaos itself, and that's all fine and good. But Chaos, in real terms, is the Four Gods and everything that comes from them. In this example, a follower of Chaos Undivided will still be getting mutations and blessings from the Four Gods (or their lesser manifestations) he'll just view it in different terms. The pantheon blesses him, or the warp itself reaches out to exalt him. It's not as simple as just seeing your left arm become a tentacle and going "Hmm, this makes me cost 3 more points and is clearly from Slaanesh."

>As editions roll out, and as Black Library gets edited tighter with delicious, beloved fact-checkers, a lot of year 2000-style / 3rd-Ed holdovers seem to be mentioned less and less, or simply never again.

-ADB (source http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260128-chaos-undivided-confusion/#entry3165636)

>>49404912
>So if he is a perpetual, then they can inhabit perpetuals, so why didn't they inhabit several perpetuals and spread themselves around rather than put all their soul eggs into one perpetual basket to get snuffed out in a freak accident or something?
Probably high on shrooms.

>What was he planning that needed such a lust for vengeance?
Imbuing his sons with psychic powers; building the webway project

>If he was, why did he turn them down? If he wasn't why not, if they wanted this powerful psyker on their side?

If he was; he just wasn't ready yet. If he wasn't; who can tell the four's madness?

>So what's special about him, if he's not really strong, powered by the pure untainted warp, etc.?
The guy's been doing for 10007 years what the most powerful human could only do for a hour before exploding into warpdust. Obviously he's someone special

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>>49404943

>>49404959
What does Chaos Undivided have to do with untainted warp?

Also, if all of warp is Chaos and all of Chaos is the 4 gods, why is there a limit to the power each god has? Why do they have their own realms that have stuff outside of them? Why are there warp creatures not related to any of the 4? When did the 4 take over the warp and make all of the warp their own (while leaving areas and creatures they don't control)?

>>49404348
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Wolf's_Claw_(Audio_Drama)

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>>49405078

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>>49405072
>>49404884
>>49404943

I should have known you bitter decimators would only care about the beeb boop

>>49405073
Don't skip read. Read all of it especially this part.

"The Warp essentially is the Four Powers, and the millions and billions of lesser entities aligned with them, composed of them, born from them, and so on".

All creatures in the Warp are related to the Chaos Gods in one way or another. The Chaos Gods did not take over the Warp, they have always existed in it. According to the HH serirs, the Chaos Gods were hiding in the depths of the Warp waiting for their time to surface.

>>49403406

Don't believe his lies.

>>49404961
>Imbuing his sons with psychic powers

How did psykers ever get created, if you needed the power of the dark gods to make psykers?

>building the webway project

Wonder how the Necrons ever made those dolmen gates without the power of the dark gods.

>The guy's been doing for 10007 years what the most powerful human could only do for a hour before exploding into warpdust

All of which happened after he got power from the dark gods. But what about before that?

>>49405145
Continued....

>The First Captain, initially angry at the Magos’ imperious summons, had become serious and engaged as Ivasnophon revealed the nature of the technology that he sought upon Amethal. It was an ancient prize, something made by those who ruled the galaxy long before the first Terran life forms emerged from the primordial ooze. Other examples of its sort had been found across the galaxy from time to time, hints at an incredibly potent weapon against the powers of Chaos. Ivasnophon specialised in the location, excavation and imitation of such archeotechnological treasures. For centuries he had been following a tenuous trail of clues towards this, his greatest find. Amethal was not a planet, he explained, but rather a skin of rock and biosphere stretched as camouflage over an ancient cage. Vast beyond belief, wreathed in arcane wards and dark technologies, it was a prison-eternal for daemonic entities. It was the Magos Dominus’ belief that the Amethal Cage contained hellish beings beyond count, trapped for millennia behind warded bars. Why the ancients had sought to isolate these creatures from the Warp was a mystery lost to the mists of time, but the Magos was certain they had succeeded. Captain Karlaen was horrified at this revelation, for if that were true, then the empyric inmates of this world represented a dreadful danger to the defences around the Cadian Gate. At the same time, he was not slow to grasp Ivasnophon’s purpose on this world. Building upon his countless decades of study and experimentation, the Magos Dominus was at last nearly able to replicate the technologies of the Daemon cage. He was weeks, months at most, from creating – and then mass producing-devices that could cage Daemons on a vast scale. Though not a permanent solution to the daemonic threat, such devices might end daemonic incursions as soon as they began, and thus turn the tide in the war for the Cadian Gate.

>>49405145
So why does the 6e codex say the same old thing about the gods being born from the minds of mortals? Why do Furies, Enslavers, etc. creatures exist? Why does the Necron codex mention how the War in Heaven turned the once peaceful warp creatures into terrible monsters? Why didn't the Old Ones encounter the dark gods or why weren't their psychic races set upon by daemons when the warp was calm? Why is there a wasteland outside of the realms of the dark gods instead of the dark gods controlling it all?

>>49405122
oh no I was proven wrong

INITIATE DAMAGE CONTROL

Doesn't the Emperor predate all of the Chaos gods? Except maybe Nurgle. Khorne didn't become a full good until the Middle Ages IIRC.

>>49405199
This is just in case some jerk brings up the bullshit about the Warp being calm and having no Chaos before the War in Heaven.

As you can see from the green text taken from Angel's Blade, several anti-daemons weapons and prisons were crafted by a race of ancients long before any life on Terra formed. That makes it roughly 6 billion years ago. Waaaaay before the War in Heaven which happened 60 million years ago in the 40K universe. These weapons were created as methods with dealing with the Powers of Chaos. The Daemon Cage was one of these weapons and it was a planet size technological construcr made to mass imprison daemons.

>>49405156
>Wonder how the Necrons ever made those dolmen gates without the power of the dark gods.

The C'tan known as the Burning One taught them how. The Webway is after all, half Materium and a god of the Materium would know a few things about subverting it.

>>49405260
He was created because the shamans saw the coming of Chaos and the end of their warp based rebirthing, so they pooled their souls into one body to live forever.

Who knows now. Chaos fluff flips back and forth between "the dark gods transcend the birth of time" and "they were created from the emotions of mortals". GW doesn't care and neither should you.

>>49405292
Just because the warp was calm doesn't mean it didn't have life in it.

>>49402450
>Be Rogal Dorn Primarch of the Imperial Hands-Clenched-Aggressively
>Be snorting a line of fortifications when suddenly an Alpha Legion appears!!!
>Gets into attack position by repeatedly beating myself in the face
>Pain brings me strength
>All this time the Alpha Legionnaire is taunting
>It must be that Alpharius!!!
>Fight begins with an exhausting autistic slap fight but I activate my Power Armor Can Opener and finally bring him down.
>With his last words and his pants down I discover who my opponent is
>"It's ya boy skinny penis"
>Mfw my autism is off the charts

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>>49405147
Behold my horrid edit!

>>49405204
Time is meaningless in the Warp.

Furies are rejected souls that no Chaos Gods want to claim. They are shaped into a grusome form by the Chaos powers and thrown to the Wastes to be tormented by the tides of the Warp.

Enslavers are not Warp creatures. They have physical bodies and can exist naturally in real space.

>Why didn't the Old Ones encounter the dark gods or why weren't their psychic races set upon by daemons when the warp was calm?

see>>49405199 >>49405292

>Why is there a wasteland outside of the realms of the dark gods instead of the dark gods controlling it all?

You mean the Chaos abyss? It's just a place for neutral parties like Forge of Souls to run their business without politics getting in the way.

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>>49405342
mfw mine is better

>>49405156
>How did psykers ever get created, if you needed the power of the dark gods to make psykers?
You don't; they're born naturally but randomly (one in billion or something) but Emps wanted all 20 to be psykers

>All of which happened after he got power from the dark gods. But what about before that?
He's the guy that managed to fool the gods to give him those powers

>>49405260
That's old retconned fluff; and for a good reason.

You're telling me in a galaxy full of other more advanced species the actions of some middle age tier apes brought on those three?

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>Enslavers
Creature Feature made me love those things more.

>>49405260
Nobody predates Chaos.

Be'lakor was elevated to daemonhood by the Four Powers Chaos millions of years ago. He has memories of the first Necrontyr necropolis and the first Eldar homeworlds.

He is said to be the oldest of all who dwell beneath the shadow of the Chaos Gods.

>>49405321
Apparently, it wasn't calm. The powers of Chaos and the daemons who serve them were active in that era. They were enough of a threat that the ancients of that time built Anti-Daemon weapons to combat Chaos and isolate their daemons from the Warp.

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>>49405389
>>49405369
We all know where he got most of the DNA to make the Primarchs in the first place right?

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>>49405373
My sides. Seriously.
>>49405333
Are you the same guy who wrote the thing about Mortarion getting high on poisocaine and crashing his battle barge on a Hive city?

>>49405489
No I made the Angron xCurze fanfic instead

>>49405369
>Time is meaningless in the Warp.

Yet Eldar went for tens of millions of years without getting molested by Slaanesh, so, you know, fuck that claim up its butt.

>Furies are rejected souls that no Chaos Gods want to claim.
>"Furies are barely sentient daemons formed from scraps of Warp energy and emotion that coalesce together. They are amongst the lowliest denizens of the Realm of Chaos and easily subjugated by the Dark Gods."
-6e daemon codex

So they're born from scarp energy and emotions and since they need to be subjugated to serve the dark gods, in their natural state they're beyond the dark gods. Even though all of warp is suppose to be the dark gods...

>Enslavers are not Warp creatures.

The fact that they spend at least portion of their existence in the warp and use psykers to make portals to enter the material plain does tell a different story.

>see>>49405199 >>49405292

Where does it say they're made to fight Chaos daemons? Because what I read it says that the Magos merely found that the things work against daemons. Nothing says they were specifically built for that purpose.

>You mean the Chaos abyss?

No, the Formless Waste, which is specifically said to be beyond the realms of the dark gods.

>>49405534
The what.

>>49405426
>You're telling me in a galaxy full of other more advanced species the actions of some middle age tier apes brought on those three?

No, that's just your own headcanon. War, pestilence, etc. on Earth did not cause the dark gods, the birth of the dark gods caused war, pestilence, etc. And presumable across the universe.

Also, if the dark gods were forever, why did the shamans choose that particular time to pool their souls into one body to save them from the coming of the dark gods? Why weren't their souls eaten by daemons eons ago?

>>49405618
The Chaos Gods were forever, but only inside the warp. On realspace it is known Slaanesh was born in the 25th millenium or something.
Also, "existing forever" and "growing stronger over time" aren't mutually exclusive concepts.

>>49405389
>You don't; they're born naturally but randomly (one in billion or something) but Emps wanted all 20 to be psykers

But for example the navigation gene if not random, it's found in set familites. And the Eldar, for example, were engineered to be psychic without the dark gods. So why couldn't the Emperor do some eugenics instead of Chaos?

>He's the guy that managed to fool the gods to give him those powers

Again, we're talking about before all that. Why did the dark gods go for this guy in the first place. The fact that he tricked them, is powering the astronomican, etc. are all not reasons why they gave him their power.

>>49405665
>The Chaos Gods were forever, but only inside the warp.

Except when their birth is attributed to the emotions of sentient races.

Also, lets say you're a War in Heaven ear Eldar and you enter the warp. Where all the white daemonettes at? What if you're a 10,000 B.C. shaman who dies and your soul enters the warp. Where muh daemons at?

>>49405574
>Yet Eldar went for tens of millions of years without getting molested by Slaanesh, so, you know, fuck that claim up its butt.

She was waiting until she was born.

>So they're born from scarp energy and emotions and since they need to be subjugated to serve the dark gods, in their natural state they're beyond the dark gods. Even though all of warp is suppose to be the dark gods...

All all born of the Chaos Gods in the Warp. It doesn't mean they cannot be independent of their control.

>The fact that they spend at least portion of their existence in the warp and use psykers to make portals to enter the material plain does tell a different story.

It doesn't matter. They are not beings born from the energies of the Warp like daemons. They have a physical form and don't need warp energies to sustain their stay in reality. They cn exist in reality naturally like any other creature of real space.

"It was an ancient prize, something made by those who ruled the galaxy long before the first Terran life forms emerged from the primordial ooze. Other examples of its sort had been found across the galaxy from time to time, hints at an incredibly potent weapon against the powers of Chaos".
". It was the Magos Dominus’ belief that the Amethal Cage contained hellish beings beyond count, trapped for millennia behind warded bars. Why the ancients had sought to isolate these creatures from the Warp was a mystery lost to the mists of time".

If you are going be dishonest we will end it right here.

>No, the Formless Waste,

It's other name is the Chaos Abyss. It's a place where neutral Chaos powers dwell.

>>49405583
[Spoiler] Angron revved his chainsword lovingly over Konrad's pale ass. "The anger and pain is going away now I only feel something else".
I think you know exactly what ot is anon.

>>49405618
So you're telling me that there wasn't any war, pestilence or plotting before the middle ages?
>>49405670
>So why couldn't the Emperor do some eugenics instead of Chaos?
He didn't have the know-how. Hence, he went to them to find out

>The fact that he tricked them, is powering the astronomican, etc. are all not reasons why they gave him their power.
That is literally the reason they gave it to him. Re-read Vengeful Spirit; especially the part where Horus talks to the Red Angel. No matter how powerful they are in the warp; they still need mortal playthings to carry out their acts. Thus; Emps most likely offered to conquer the galaxy in their name; and they agreed.

Why the Emperor and not someone else you ask? Because they don't hand out this stuff to anybody

>>49405700
>Where all the white daemonettes at?

In the lower depths of the Warp. Path to Heaven makes it clear that the Warp is made up of many layers. Psykers can only glimpse the upper layers. What's below where the Chaos Powers exist, they are blind to them. The Chaos Gods hid in the lower layers until they emerged.

>>49405723
>Emperor
>Not using eugenics
You say that but why are all the mutants gone?

>>49405700
But that's the thing: everything changes when you enter the warp, and emotions mould the warp, but they exist only as causes, not as events. The battle of the Somme affected the warp, but not ont that date because dates do not exist in the warp.
Slaanesh and the Eye of Terror always existed on the warp, and it was only after M25 that those things began to exist on the material universe as well.
Remember: Meros talked with Rafen and gained knowledge that filled with the determination to sacrifice himself on Sanguinius' place. Meros and Rafen existed separated by 10000 standard years.

>>49405766
The City of Sight and the Navis Nobilite

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>>49405714
For good measure.

>>49405830
>Slip through Abaddon's fingers
That doesn't make sense. Even if he had It in his hands it doesn't matter because he has no arms.

>>49405714
>>49405574
Slaanesh's birth was so brutal it retconned the Warp

>>49405753
>>‘I do not know the warp as you do,’ said Yesugei. ‘But I know is not that simple. Otherwise, no movement is possible at all.’

>‘There are layers,’ said Veil, impatiently. ‘Yes, there is stratum aetheris, the shallow ways. There is stratum profundis, the greater arteries, plunging deeper. There is stratum obscurus, the root of the terror. How does this help you? No living man can navigate the deep ways. Even he could not.’

>‘But you try to map it.’

>‘It could not be done.’ Veil shook his head with frustration. ‘He was wrong about that, at least. It is not a mirror. It moves like a living thing. It is a living thing. Touch it, and it trembles.’ He briefly lost his certainty. ‘I do not have the Eye, but still I have seen things. I have studied what they study. The complexity is… immortal.’

>‘Try to explain.’ Yesugei spoke softly. ‘I am fast learner.’

>Veil exhaled, his eyes widening. ‘The Seethe is an ocean. All know this–it has currents, it has depths, it has storms. Near the surface, you can see the Cartomancer’s light. You can follow it. You can use your Geller aegis, and you are kept barred from the Intelligences. But even then, you are just below the upper limits. Go deeper and the aegis shatters. The lights go out. The Eye is blinded. When men say that they traverse the warp, they boast, for no mortal does more than skim across eternity’s face, like stones thrown by a child. We do not belong there. It is poison for us, and the deeper in, the worse the poison.’

>‘Achelieux try to go deeper?’

>>‘Who knows? Maybe. He did not succeed. Do you know why not? Because it is impossible. It takes the power of a tormented sun just to puncture the shallowest shoals. No energy in our arsenal could possibly pierce further. String the reactors of a dozen battleships together, double their potential, and still it would not be enough. So no, he did not succeed.’

The layer except from Path to Heaven.

>>49405883

I enjoyed reading Path of Heaven.

>>49405714
>She was waiting until she was born.

Why? Time doesn't matter in the warp, remember. He has always existed, so why would he wait, he's been born the whole time in the warp and anything that enters the warp at any point in material realm time is subject to Slaanesh?

>all born of the Chaos Gods in the Warp.

That's not what the fluff says.

>They are not beings born from the energies of the Warp like daemons. They have a physical form and don't need warp energies to sustain their stay in reality. They cn exist in reality naturally like any other creature of real space.

[citation needed]

>If you are going be dishonest we will end it right here.

You're the one putting your own spin on what they actually said.

>It's a place where neutral Chaos powers dwell.

I'm sorry, the what? Could you repeat that for the record, please?

>>49405723
>So you're telling me that there wasn't any war, pestilence or plotting before the middle ages?

No, just that when they were born, pestilence, war, etc. swept the lands.

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>>49405969
>Why? Time doesn't matter in the warp,

It matters in real space. Also he was hiding his presence for the right moment to emerge but he revealed himself to elevate Be'lakor.

>That's not what the fluff says.

It's exactly what the fluff says. Everything in the Warp is Chaos.

>[citation needed]

picture related.

>You're the one putting your own spin on what they actually said.

I am not.

See >>49405830

You are the one who is trying objective statements of fact as what the Magos observed.

>I'm sorry, the what? Could you repeat that for the record, please?

Neutral Chaos Powers like the Forge of Souls and whatever Daemon Prince or GD who broke himself off his god to forge his own path.

>>49405723
>Hence, he went to them to find out

For info on eugenics?

>That is literally the reason they gave it to him.
>Because they don't hand out this stuff to anybody

That still doesn't answer why they gave it to the Emperor. All the glorious stuff he did after he got the power could have just as well been done by someone else with that power. So why him and not any other perpetual or powerful psyker? What did he bring to the table that another immortal/psyker with the same pitch could have not brought?

Also, the fact that they did not check up on this dude once is telling of the retardation plaguing HH.

>"Hey, dark gods, gimme power so I can rule the galaxy. In your name, of course."
>"And who are you exactly?"
>"I'm the motherfucking Emperor, gimme power."
>"k lol"

None of them looked at his actions before and went "well, he hasn't really done anything to further our goals" and neither did they during the entire crusade go "well, he's actively destroying all our dominions and putting up barriers for us to slither into the world. He's even getting rid of all the psykers!"

I don't even understand how the dark gods can gift some mortals with gifts and take them away, but can't do shit to others.

>>49406056
>It matters in real space. Also he was hiding his presence for the right moment to emerge but he revealed himself to elevate Be'lakor.

Correction.

They might not even been hiding. The lore behind the Daemon Cage shows that Daemonic activity was a problem during the times of the Old Ones which necessitated the construction of serveral huge anti-daemon weapons.

>>49405794
>The battle of the Somme affected the warp, but not ont that date because dates do not exist in the warp.

Then how does tons of slaughter or psychic powers cause the warp to echo at the same time? How does problems with the golden throne or the astronomican cause the beacon to flicker and thousands of astropaths and navigators to perceive it at once?

How does Abaddon plan on his Crimson Path to roil up the warp and let his daemonic allies to venture forth, if he's not even sure all that killing will echo in the warp at the same time? How do warp portals work, if creating an opening in the warp doesn't necessarily mean the portal is open in real space?

>>49406083
>What did he bring to the table that another immortal/psyker with the same pitch could have not brought?

He managed to traverse the Ebon Road without dying or going mad. Endured the combined direct presences of the Four Powers as they looked down on him and laughed.

When he exited the Gateway to the Gods, he was so damaged and exhausted that he collapsed in the arms of Alivia Sureka. It wasn't bloody easy.

Also don't you remember what happened when Horus entered the very same Gateway? The Chaos Gods were laughin at him and a voice from the future echoed from the Gateway. Guess whose voice was it? It was Abaddon's voice. The words spoken were this "Horus was weak. Horus was a fool". This implies the Chaos Gods knew the fate of Horus. I will assume that they knew what the Emperor intended to do and they allowed it.

After all, Tzeentch is called the Master of the Timestream.

>>49406118
W A R P . M A G I C
Also, Astropaths and Navigators can see into the warp, but are firmly rooted in realspace. A Gellar field creates a pocket of realspace inside the warp.
And warp portals bind two points of realspace by bending (warping) the path between those points. Now it could happen to be a portal goes from point A in the present to point B in the past, but that's uncommon.
And high amounts of chaotic energy thins the separation between the inmaterium and the local reality and time, that's how the Eye came to be.

>>49406118
Everything happens in the upper layers. The lower layers are harder to get to. It will take the power of a few exploding suns to break into the lower layers.

>>49406056
>Also he was hiding his presence for the right moment to emerge but he revealed himself to elevate Be'lakor.

[citation needed]

>It's exactly what the fluff says.

I gave you a direct quote. Now who's being dishonest?

>picture related.

Nice FFG there, buddy.

>You are the one who is trying objective statements of fact as what the Magos observed.

Your own fucking quotes place the source of the info on the Magos!

>Neutral Chaos Powers

Thank you, you may go now.

>>49406168
I don't know why bit this just came to me.
>"You can kill all the followers of Tzeentch that you want brother.
>"But no matter how many you kill,you can not escape time"

>>49406168
>This implies the Chaos Gods knew the fate of Horus.

Yet did nothing. HH retardation for the sake of "just as planned" gets another notch on its belt.

>>49406202
>firmly rooted in realspace.

So why are psykers in danger of possession if they're rooted in real space?

>And warp portals bind two points of realspace by bending (warping) the path between those points.

What about warp portals into or out of the warp?

>that's how the Eye came to be.

But the Eye had always existed in the warp.

>>49406207
>[citation needed]

HH series. Path of Heaven and I think A Thousand Sons too.

> gave you a direct quote

So did I. All Warp is Chaos.

>Your own fucking quotes place the source of the info on the Magos!

Nope. It's objective statements mixed in with the Magos observation. It's easy to see which is which.

See >>49405830. Is this attributed to the Magos? No, stop being dishonest.

>Nice FFG there, buddy.

Nothing in GW goes against it. In fact, Trazyn has a corpse of one of the Enslavers on display supporting the fact that they have physical bodies.

>Thank you, you may go now.

I think the fact you ignored that these were orginally born from gods buy gain neutrality afterwards.

If Alpharius uses Scout to go into Outflank, does he count as 'being revealed' and so do all models get PE from your turn 1? Even though he arrives on board turn 2? or does he actually have to be on the board?

Recon company RoW shrouded rule for infiltrate/scouting units - is it the first game turn (e.g. next two player turns) from when the unit comes onto the board? or only for the very first game turn ?

>>49406230
>You can kill Kyros, shatter Magnus, murder Ahriman, and you still won't scape time

>>49406241
>Yet did nothing

Why would they? The HH according to my speculation was a test run for the End Times and also it was manipulated into happening to spawn Abaddon who will be the one who will actually deliver the galaxy to them.

>>49406284
>But the Eye had always existed in the warp.

Which Layer?

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Dear diary, today the general was interesting and there was a shady beep-boop selling things to dank angels.

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>>49406299
Come on man, read the rules please.

>>49406284
>So why are psykers in danger of possession if they're rooted in real space?
Imagine psykers are like submarines. They may submerge, but they always carry air. But the ocean is always leaking inside, threatening to crush them with more intensity the deeper they go. Don't they call the Warp "the Great Ocean"?

>What about warp portals into or out of the warp?
When you arrive to the warp you arrive to the warp. When you exit it, however...
Space Hulks are a prime example of this.

>But the Eye had always existed in the warp.
That's how it came to be in our world. Tore layers upwards.

Can Primarchs be taken in the Leviathan force org? I'm trying to brew a WE list with a Warhound to represent the Ember Wolves and I want to use both the titan and Angron. Is Battlescribe just a shit when it comes to this? Would I be better off going with the Onslaught force org instead?

Speaking of ridiculous timetravel shenanigans in BL books...
>Argel Tal is sent back in time to the primarch's genechamber on Terra. It is actually him that breaks the device keeping the chaos gods out, allowing them the scatter the primarchs across the galaxy.
>He only exists to be able to do this, because he had already done it. If he never does this, the primarchs don't get scattered, Lorgar doesn't land on Colchis, and Argel possibly never gets recruited (or if he is, the Word Bearers would be very different without the influence of Colchis's culture).
>For added fun, he was sent into the chamber by the power of chaos, but it was him breaking the machine that allowed the power of chaos into that chamber.

>>49406444
That was just a vision; like they did with Horus back on Davin

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>>49406370
I didn't want to talk about the warp...
I wanted to talk about sieges :/

>>49406295
>All Warp is Chaos.

And all Chaos is the 4 gods. Yet Furies are not. Explain.

>Is this attributed to the Magos?

Did you miss the first sentence where it sets up the whole bit with Admech understanding of what the Black Legion sought upon Amethal?

>Trazyn has a corpse of one of the Enslavers on display supporting the fact that they have physical bodies.

Are not his displays under stasis? Daemons have physical bodies as well when in real space.

>gain neutrality afterwards.

None of which is supported by the fluff of the Furies.

Also, how can there be neutral parties in the warp when the warp is Chaos and Chaos is only the four dark gods? You're not making any sense anymore.

>>49406444
>Argel Tal is sent back in time to the primarch's genechamber on Terra. It is actually him that breaks the device keeping the chaos gods out, allowing them the scatter the primarchs across the galaxy.

>implying this is anything more than a vision

>implying that if chaos had the power to teleport and time travel directly into the likely warp shielded birthing chamber of the primarchs they'd rely on a few marines from the cry baby legion to fulfil their plans

>implying you're not a retard

>>49406206
>upper layers
>lower layers

[citation needed]

>>49406391
english is not my first language and i asked for clarification. I do not know if reserve counts as being on the board or not. thank you

>>49406500
It's already been posted. But for your sake
>>49405883

>>49406434
Primarchs are Lords of War, so yes.

Ask FW anyways though. Who knows.

>>49406338
>Why would they?

So they wouldn't have to waste thousands of years fighting the Imperium and the Emperor, when they could have just promoted Abaddon into power and have him lead the traitors into victory. Or just have Abaddon rig the Vengeful Spirit to explode right after Horus dies, so that the Emperor is killed and the galaxy plunged into turmoil while the traitor forces gather strength.

Damn it, I dislike the look of Mastodon but I want to build one so much.

>>49406555
>emperor is killed
>chaos misses on all those 10k years of pain and suffering
Read Legion

Evidence for the emperor being 'given' powers freely by the gods?
Surely he earned them? fought/earned enough respect from one god or another for them?

if he is anathema to the chaos gods them maybe he could just go in there and soak up some power or something?

evidence for emperor not being incredibly powerful BEFORE molech? where does it say he was 'just a normal perpetual' before that?

>>49406482
>And all Chaos is the 4 gods. Yet Furies are not. Explain.

I assume they are born from the refuse of the Chaos Gods.

>Did you miss the first sentence where it sets up the whole bit with Admech understanding of what the Black Legion sought upon Amethal?

Again, it's mixed with his own observation as well as statements of facts.

The omniscient narrator in Traitor's Hand confirms that it was created long before life existed on Earth by godlike beings as a weapon and a prison against the infernal creatures of the Warp. Now why would these godlike beings create a device like that and fill it to full capacity with daemons? Daemons which according to you shouldn't be in that era in the fist place.

>Are not his displays under stasis?

It is said that he has the ossified husk of an Enslaver. Doesn't imply that he put it in statis or made it into holograms.

>Daemons have physical bodies as well when in real space.

Corporeal manifestation that do not exist naturally in Real Space. They require warp energy to maintain their form.

>Also, how can there be neutral parties in the warp when the warp is Chaos and Chaos is only the four dark gods? You're not making any sense anymore.

Easy. Something born of the Chaos Gods either through accident or design, and then that thing earns its Independence somehow.

I'll give £10,000 in cash to anyone at GW who can present me with a logical and coherent canon timeline of the history of the universe from the beginning to M41, explaining everything, what rules everything works under, and answers all questions pertaining to "why X can Y but not Z" with satisfactory answer without any "its warp majick lol".

>>49406521
in reserve = not on the table

>>49406618
He wasn't given it; he fought through the warp for tens of millenia from his perspective and finally cheated the gods of their power.

And he was incredibly powerful before it. You won't see a regular human managing to get to Molech, defeating literally billions of armies and finally cheating the big 4

>>49406590
You know how much pain and suffering they've missed by not having the entire galaxy in 10,000 years of HH?

Retards, all of them.

>>49406555
>waste thousands of years

You do know that the Chaos Gods have a different perception of time? 10K year could be like a blink of time to them.

And Abaddon wasn't ready. The galaxy wasn't ready. Everything must be set exactly like it was planned. Horus wasn't meant to win. Abaddon is the chosen one. They gods want it to be this way.

>>49406642
>I'll give £10,000 in cash to anyone at GW who can satisfy my impossible standards and directly go against established company procedure

>>49406666
Actually, the Emperor wasn't trested by the Chaos God.

The challenge was just walking across the Ebon Road and facing whatever random danger on the way.

Horus was the guy which the Chaos Gods tested until he earned the right to wield their power by wit and might. That's why at the end of Vengeful Spirit Horus was proud of himself because he earned what they Emperor deceived to get.

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>>49406555
Dr. Manhattan can see the past, the present and the future, but he sees all of it happening at the same time, so he cannot act based on it.
For him things simply are

>>49406718
So then why did Emps collapse after exiting the warp and had to be carried by that Perpetual? Horus had a similar reaction; so something similar clearly happened

>The unease you feel at such a rebirth is shared among the Pantheon. The Sacrificed King died as he was fated to die. He cannot rise again. His time is gone. The Age of the Twenty False Gods is gone. We walk in the Age of the Born and Neverborn. So it is, and so it must be.

-Gyre the daemon she-wolf on the prospect of Horus returning to life.

Sacrificed King, guys, Horus was no king but a pawn. Abaddon on the other hand....

>>49406803
>Age of the Twenty False Gods
>when there are 21
Clearly they don't know shit

If vehicles don't have a LD then they are immune to attacks that cause damage if the unit fails a leadership test.

So, what happens if a unit is REQUIRED to PASS a leadership test before something? Vehicles don't have a leadership and therefore they are unable to pass the test, therefore they can't do the action?

TFW there are still people who don't realize that the warp is just there as a "It's magic, deal with it" for the GrimDark.
Don't try to hard to make sense out of something often used to avoid having to explain things

>>49406803
The Emperor was a cheater who knew he was going to get fucked up, Horus was a pawn that thought himself to be king and was surprised when he got fucked up, and Abaddon is that girl the chaos gods want to fuck but he keeps them in the friendzone.

>>49406631
>Again, it's mixed with his own observation as well as statements of facts.

According to you.

>Now why would these godlike beings create a device like that and fill it to full capacity with daemons? Daemons which according to you shouldn't be in that era in the fist place.

Not daemons, "infernal creatures." How do you know why these things were capture? Maybe they were studying warp creatures, trying to purge it from creatures that prey on them (like enslaves) or anything else. If you could provide clear answers, I'm sure you would.

>It is said that he has the ossified husk of an Enslaver.

Was it ossified when he put it in stasis?

>Corporeal manifestation that do not exist naturally in Real Space. They require warp energy to maintain their form.

It's still a physical body that can be touched, cut, that bleeds, etc.

But lets assume Enslavers are entirely physical, how exactly do they travel the warp and reach into the minds of psykers from the warp without being affected by Chaos corruption they're constantly surrounded by?

>Easy

Headcanon IS easy.

>>49406682
>10K year could be like a blink of time to them.

So they would have not missed a thing.

>>49406825
Subtract that Primarchs that achieved daemonhood. These guys became kings in the Warp.

>>49406868
>But lets assume Enslavers are entirely physical, how exactly do they...
Do this thread a favor, m8
http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Enslavers

>>49406825
then there's a hint about how omegon/alpha share one soul and how important souls are to the whole netherborn/born diferentiation

or

one of the two 'lost' primarchs didnt have a soul? or was 'somethign else' ?

>>49406831
In what scenario would a vehicle have to take a Ld. test before it can do something ?

>>49406705
>impossible standards

So you agree that 40k fluff is a mess and has no consistency or logic? Because if the claim that everything they do is consistent and shit, and nothing is left to chance, they shouldn't have any trouble making an easy £10,000 in cash, under the table.

>>49406904
>primarchs that achieved daemonhood=6
>21-6=15

Nope

>>49406825
17 regular primarchs, x2 alpha legion primarchs and the emperor maybe?

>>49406906
Or the daemon's lying to Abaddon and clearly doesn't know everything

>>49406914
answer the question with your opinion first and i will tell you :_)

>>49406489
Somebody's remarkably mad.

>>49406952
So the daemon doesn't know about the lost primarchs? Interesting

>>49406929
>So you agree that 40k fluff is a mess and has no consistency or logic?#
yeah, not like it's a bad thing. Like >>49406849 says, the warp is basically an entire dimension of hand wave and deus ex machina bullshit. Stop overthinking the setting and I promise you'll enjoy things more.

>>49406952
The "missing" primarchs weren't killed, at least not in the conventional sense, as everyone arguing that a primarch can die uses Ferrus' example.

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>>49406974
sure thing fella

>>49406905
>linking to 40k wiki

But hey, would you look at that:
>"The Inquisition's Ordo Malleus and Ordo Xenos both have an interest in combating Enslavers due to their origins in the Warp"
>"Their true appearance in the Warp is unknown, but once they manifest in realspace, Enslavers appear as barrel-shaped or basic spheroids that measured approximately 2 metres in height and possess a tough leathery skin."

According to your source, Enslavers originate from the warp, they manifest into real space, and we have no evidence that they have physical bodies in the warp.

>>49406868
>Not daemons

Daemons. The Angel's Blade and Traitor's Hand keep referring to the DAEMON CAGE inhabits as daemons. These ancient daemons even talk to and possess the Crimson Slaughter whose daemonic haunting made them have affinity to the prisoners.

>Was it ossified when he put it in stasis?

We don' know of he has it in stasis.

>It's still a physical body that can be touched, cut, that bleeds, etc.

Again, does not exist naturally in Real Space. It's a ball of psychic energy that the mortal mind minds forces aspects of reality unto so that it won't be driven mad.

>how exactly do they travel the warp and reach into the minds of psykers from the warp without being affected by Chaos corruption they're constantly surrounded by?

They evolved tp be that way. Ww know that powerful psykers and indivuials can traverse the Warp without being harmed. Like Draigo, the Fire Hawk chapter, the little girl and her black dog, etc.

>Headcanon IS easy.

Hey, I have ADB on my side.

>>49406455
>>49406489
>it's just a vision
Why did the gods include Horus's voice from Davin in Argel's vision then?

>>49406849
unfortunately we are no longer in satirical 40k we are now grim dark where everything is explained,eg tau anrent affecte by chaos because their souls are minimal, and ethereals secrete pheromones which make you want to follow them

>>49407032
So wait; Horus and Argel were there at the same time?

Are the Chaos Gods just sending everyone there?

Also
>Chaos Gods can't induce auditory hallucinations as well

>>49406963
Well according to the rules vehicles never take morale or leadership tests because the crew's faith in their vehicle and its armour is absolute, so I would assume they always count as having passed all leadership tests. Unless a special rule specifically says a vehicle must pass one and gives a Ld. value for said vehicle

>>49406999
A dimension with very specific rules as to why things are or aren't like you'd think.

>Stop overthinking the setting and I promise you'll enjoy things more.

Oh, I enjoy it just fine. But whenever I get told everything's perfectly consistent and logical, I feel like I have to test the waters a bit to see how far the kool-aid goes.

>>49407043
Actually Tau can very much be affected by Chaos. It is just that because they have such smalldik souls that the Chaos Gods have little to no interest in them

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>>49407105
Actually, according to FFG Rogue Trader, the Tau are affected differently than humans.

The Tau do not get driven mad or mutate when they are earning Chaos corruption points.

A Tau player just continues to act normal like nothing is happening.

>>49407105
Read the novel that accompanied "Firewarrior", Khorne Tau Firewarrior, perfectly possible. Just not likely, as you said.

Though I doubt that could be considered Canon.

>>49407149
>Khorne Tau Firewarrior

Kais didn't really fall to Khorne. He temporarily was influenced by the daemonic rage aura. This thing happens to the marines who fight against Bloodthirsters especially Skarbrand.

After breaking free from the aura, Kais purified himself and became immune to the daemonic corruption.

>>49407070
difference between never taking them and auto passing them

If I were to take Aegis Lines in a Solar Auxilia Army, what's the better Skyfire option? Icarus or Quad Gun?
I'd be using Veletaris Storm Sections to man them, so BS 4.

Icarus
>huge range which is good since it needs to be set up pretty close to the deployment zone so the dudes can get to it in time
>High S, AP 2 -- better chance to cause an HP loss AND an explosion, but can only deal one HP max per turn

Quad Gun
>4 shots, better odds of getting at least some damage on the target
>less chance to kill it
>way less range

>>49407184
true, it wasn't permanent, but it was a clear influence. Again, Tau souls are a bit lacklustre, so they're not that interesting to Chaos.

>>49407184
>After breaking free from the aura, Kais purified himself and became immune to the daemonic corruption.
So nobre.

>>49407028
So, if I hail from the warp it is illegal to have bones and claws and horns? Must my body turn into flame and dissipate from existance when I'm killed?
"Originate from the warp" doesn't mean "permanently attached to the inmaterium". They come from that place and need help to get here, the rest is up to you.

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HH leviathal - vehicles cant pass LD test, therefore can't shoot.

>>49407221
Depends on what you're up against, as a single lasgun may be evaded by a Jink save...but at least you got the enemy to jink: enemy aircraft are useless if they can't shoot at you...unless they are transports. Would do the math for you, but I'm having lunch. It's easy fractions anyway.
And it has no potato in them :^)

>>49407239
>so they're not that interesting to Chaos.

The Greater Daemon was actively trying to corrupt Kais. After Kais rid himself from its influence, the daemon could no longer reach into his mind.

>''The daemonlord sensed something was wrong. The bloodlust it had gifted to the tau creature was waning. It evaporated like water, unclouding the tiny morsel’s mind and leaving it cold and sharp: a dagger of focus that no amount of insidious corruption could ever penetrate''

>''It didn’t matter. A pure tau died just as easily as a tainted one''

-Fire Warrior

>>49407307
I would mail FW about that. The thing is that vehicles neither pass nor fail the Ld. test - they just don't take one.
But if it would mean that vehicles can't shoot you with that ROW it would almost make good.
Almost.

>>49407264
>"Originate from the warp" doesn't mean "permanently attached to the inmaterium".

No, but it means "to come into being, start". If they come from the warp, how exactly do they not come from the warp? And if all of warp is Chaos and Chaos is nothing but the four dark gods, the Enslavers clearly are Chaos creations.

>>49407031
>Daemons.

You think Imperials know the difference between a daemon and any other warp creature? It's not like something that affects daemons doesn't affect other warp things as well. Look at, say, the Eldar Avatar, which is hurt by anti-Daemon weapons just as well as any other daemon.

>I have ADB on my side.

Too bad for him you're on his side only when it suits you.

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>>49407140

>>49407425
So, the Chaos Gods cannot create local fauna?

>>49407457
>You think Imperials know the difference between a daemon and any other warp creature? It's not like something that affects daemons doesn't affect other warp things as well.

You would have a point if it was the in-verse Imperials who referred to them as daemons.

>Too bad for him you're on his side only when it suits you.

I am 100% on his side on the lore what I disagree with him is on canon issues.

>>49406666

Chaos boss rush.

>>49407031

Who's the little girl and her black dog again?

Reminder that 40k is a setting, not a story. Individual stories like the Horus Heresy does take place in it, though. Whenever GW wants to force a meta plot it will always be shit, so don't look forward to story advancements in 40k.

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What do you think about this? As in, what kind of job has /HHG/ done with itself lately?

>>49407531
>You would have a point if it was the in-verse Imperials who referred to them as daemons.

How do non-Imperials know the difference?

>I am 100% on his side on the lore

Then why do you claim there's Neutral Chaos powers? ADB doesn't believe in that, he's on the side of "All warp is Chaos and all Chaos is the dark gods." There's no room for neutral parties in that.

>>49407592
This. Stories that take place in the middle of the timeline can be literally anything, because there's always time for factions to clean things up and burn/rewrite the history books. The scale of the setting, both in space and time mean that even massive events that impact the entire galaxy, could be completely forgotten in the span of 2 or 3 thousand years. Stories that take place in the last few days of M41 will always be far more restrictive, with the fandom having to deal with the fallout.

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>>49407585

>>49407665

>the Guardian accused the little girl and her puppy of cheating

Nice.

>>49407592
>>49407658
>le ebbin "it's all official from the perspective of an unreliable narrator" may-may

>>49407665
Dorothy and Toto defeated one of Tzeentch's greatest challenges?


Wat.

>>49407665
>make guardian that cannot hear
>question it anyway
Fucking Tzeentch, man.

why does chaos act like it's such an ancient force when the necrons and old ones predate it by millions of years?

chaos are fucking smalltime

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>>49407639
>How do non-Imperials know the difference?

It was the omniscient narrator. It wasn't a person in the verse.

>Then why do you claim there's Neutral Chaos powers? ADB doesn't believe in that, he's on the side of "All warp is Chaos and all Chaos is the dark gods." There's no room for neutral parties in that.

Except there is. In Fantasy, the Gods of Order, racial gods, and other rogue entities were born of the Chaos Gods. Despite of this they were independent of the Chaos Gods and acted towards their own ends. (picture related).

Here is the ADB qoute again :

"The Warp essentially is the Four Powers, and the millions and billions of lesser entities aligned with them, composed of them, born from them, and so on".

It acts with the same logic as above. Being born of Chaos doesn't mean you automatically serve them.

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Does pic related mean no Infiltrators may deploy inside the green circle, or are Infiltrating units not in "standard deployment"?

>>49407693
I will take this meme over having the setting be set in stone because muh autism meme.

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>>49407761
Be'lakor has memories of the first Necrontyr necropolis and first homeworlds of the Eldar. So do the Necrons and Old Ones really predate Chaos? I think not.

>>49407801
I hope Be'lakor is not a part of HH canon. He is just the most mediocre BBEG ever.

>>49407797
Imho infiltrators/scout moves are after standard deployment

>>49407762
>It was the omniscient narrator.

If it was like all the other "omniscient narrators" you've presented so far, I highly doubt that.

>In Fantasy

Fantasy's dead, baby.

>"The Warp essentially is the Four Powers, and the millions and billions of lesser entities aligned with them, composed of them, born from them, and so on".

So, we got no Chaos Undivided, because all Chaos is the dark gods, yet we got billions of warp entities not aligned nor controlled by the dark gods. But there's only the four gods, guys. And the billions of lesser beings. But nothing that's not the four. Except these neutral parties. But only the four.

>>49407801
plz no shitty mary sue

>>49407799
It's not a meme, it's the official stance of GW. Why don't you go to whineseer if you love your noncanon so much?

>>49407854
>nstead, he stayed perfectly still for several, drawn-out seconds as his mind whirled. Xorphas had foreseen much of what had transpired in the Diamor System, but with the daemonic clamour of Amethal crowding the paths of the future, this impulsive Blood Angel attack had been invisible to him. If it could happen once, it could happen again.

"Daemonic". There is more if I want to search through more of the two books.

>Fantasy's dead, baby.

It's like saying a movie is dead just because it got a sequel. AoS doesn't nullify WHFB, it builds on it.

>So, we got no Chaos Undivided, because all Chaos is the dark gods, yet we got billions of warp entities not aligned nor controlled by the dark gods. But there's only the four gods, guys. And the billions of lesser beings. But nothing that's not the four. Except these neutral parties. But only the four.

Neutral parting as in not serving the Chaos Gods directly.

And Undivided means to have the power of the Four Chaos Gods/blessed by the Four. Only one creature in the Warp has this distinction.

>>49407883
GW always change their mind about presentation all the time. They are hardly consistent with what they want the setting to be.

>>49407801
ths could easily be excused as slaanesh eating the soul of an eldar that was alive then, and then tzeentch gets it off him when thy thought, and then gave it to belakor for some JUST AS PLANNED reason
also sick art

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>>49407836
>>49407878
Leave the Emperor to me!

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He watches.

>>49404711

This is nice and highly detailed. Like it

>>49407027
The person who drew that comic must have been pretty mad.

>>49408012
Bel'end, please go.

This is why the new lore is horrible. This is what it causes. How did it even happen?
>>49408259
There are three things he fears. Our planet is one, the second has horrible internet connection and GW makes them pay more, and the third is cold blood and lives in Not!South America.

>>49408182
I really liked that head for any ranged knight. shame it doesnt fit the one with the twin-mega las cannons

>>49408182
This thread has earned the Knight's ire! All must repent!

>>49407801
>Be'lakor is an old one
>Saw first necrons by being there at the time
>War in heaven
>Helps create first eldar
>Loses war hard
>One of the few OOs who survived
>Roughly sixty million years after the war
>Eventually grows to like the new fucked up warp
>After slaanesh is formed he is made a daemon prince of all four gods
>After he turned out to be a total bitch all four gods decided 'never again'
Mystery solved.

>>49408296
You mean the one that isn't out yet?

>>49408012
Alright. We're waiting. It's not like you've had a few millenia while he's been alive and achieved fuck all, after all.

Is be'lakor even canon in 30k? Given the likes of Ka'bandha and N'kari and so on are in I'd have assumed so, but I can't actually think of a time he's showed up off the top of my head.

>>49407925
>not serving the Chaos Gods directly

But Warp = Chaos = the dark gods. If it's Warp related, it's Chaos related, and if it's Chaos related, it's the four dark gods.

>And Undivided means to have the power of the Four Chaos Gods/blessed by the Four.

Undivided Daemons weren't daemons of all four, they were things like Furies who were not aligned. Undivided morals were not being powered by all four, they served Chaos as a whole.

>>49408321
Uni, don't.
>>49408342
Nope. Hopefully it will stay that way.

>>49407836
Fuck that, put him in as the true power behind Horus' fall and all that shit. Come on, push it, GW, push it real hard. Why the fuck wouldn't you, you pussies? HH is in dire need of some consistency and market appeal.

>>49408332
Yeah. Can't remember its name off the top of my head.
The massive targeting aperture fits with the doom cannons.Still it works for the grav-cannon knight as well, shame its 12 quid

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>>49408415

>>49408342
>>49407836
Fingers crossed not; I really don't want He Who Must Not Be Named back here

What happened to him anyway?

>>49408471
He just dropped his trip. Apparently he hangs around in the aos generals now a days

>>49408471
He's already here. Who do you think has been doing this?

>>49408432
Porphyrion

>>49408342
Be'lakor in the 40K universe spent his time manipulating the galaxy from the shadows in his quest to topple the Chaos Gods.

I am actually surprised that he hasn't made an appearance yet in HH. This sort of event should have his claws all over it. The Chaos Gods cannot elevate a new Undivided Champion without igniting his jealousy.

I think GW waiting until he is more embedded in the 40K universe. Putting him into 30K lore in too hastily will cause a few problems with established lore. GW wants to avoid that if they can.

>>49408595
i think you overestimate the amount of influence GW has over FW in these things

>>49408595
Cont'd....

I just figured a way to make it work. Have Be'lakor recruit Lorgar and Pert as his acolytes. He will use his own power to ascend them to daemonhood. This would make the most sense, since the Chaos Gods will never make the mistake of creating another Undivided Prince again.

>>49408595
>GW wants to avoid that if they can.

lol

>>49408651
HH is not FW. They merely do the game portion of it.

>Be'lakor wants to bring down the chaos gods
>Rather than use him in the 30k timeline for this purpose, GW/FW/BL invent the entirely new Cabal storyline, and leave be'lakor collecting dust on the sidelines
Lol.

Fuck me, the GW staff are pushy. I recently got back into it and needed some Muhreens, and this dude is checking up on me literally every ten seconds and trying to pitch me completely random stuff that I'm not remotely interested in.
I get it, man. You're supposed to sell this. Don't worry, I'm still gonna buy it.

>>49408765
The Cabal were introduced waaaaaaay before Be'lakor migrated to 40K.

Check the dates of "Legion" and Be'lakor's 40K dateslate.

>>49408793
What country do you live in?

>>49408750
Which most of the good fluff comes from.
So i guess this means i have shot myself in the foot: if Be'lakor is too appear, he will be in some shitty BL book

>>49408765
>implying Be'lakor isn't behind the Cabal

>>49408834
Sweden. We only have two GW stores here, so I guess they feel the pressure from all the other hobby stores around town (Gothenburg).

>>49408861
>good fluff
>decimation
>Raven Guard being retards
>Iron Hands being Iron Cunts

>>49408930

You think BL is any better? In them we still have Iron Cunts and Raven Retards, with even less justification.

>>49408930
compared too
>Alpharius's death
>everything to do with the outcast dead
>the reason for alphas going chaos

Decimation was good, deal with it bittermarine

>>49408595
>we get to the very end of the Heresy
>Horus is tricked by Be'lakor to lower his shields
>Be'lakor makes Emperor aware of the lowered shields
>Emperor and Horus fight
>Horus is too strong
>Emperor can't defeat him
>Be'lakor guides a Custodes into the room to distract Horus
>uses the Emperor to strike and drives back the dark gods
>Be'lakor lunges in and consumes Horus' soul
>Be'lakor tells Abaddon that the Emperor killed Horus and decides to help him get vengeance
>As Dorn carries the Emperor away, the laughter of Be'lakor echoes across the ship

>>49407840
I thought so, thanks. The confusion stems from "standard deployment".

>>49409014
Be gone, foul one.

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>>49408930
Why are the Raven guard retards? I like the IH being cunts.

>>49409014
Yes, yes. This would world nicely.

>>49408290
New lore is bad because the new authors are bad.

>>49409065
work*

>>49408968
What's exactly bad about the outcast dead; besides the timeline fuck-up? The Thunder Warriors genocide was good; as well as the idea of the Crusader Host

>>49409052
>The Raven Guard had avenged those sacrificed on Zenith-312, but in doing so had granted the remainder of Carinae's defenders time to consolidate their defences, and without their support the Imperial Army and Crusade fleet assets had suffered badly as they had attempted to hold the line. The Carinae Campaign, which should have been swift and painless for the expanding Imperium, would rumble on for almost another seven solar months and would cost many thousands of lives as the price for the XIX Legion's need for retribution

>>49408499
The sinister shitposting cabal?

>>49409131
Aww come on, this isn't an unforgiveable sin. Not everybody is perfect all the damn time.
Except motherfucking Guilliman without even trying or something.

>>49409181
Don't you mean the Imperial Fists, who have never done wrong and would have totally whooped that dum-dum Perturabo's ass at Phall if it wasn't for those meddling gods.
>t. John French

>>49409131
>What's exactly bad about the outcast dead;
oh boy
oh boy
okay, its been a while since i read it, so i might miss some, but the highlight are
>Custode beaten by single marine, when fully equip, after marine has spent a while in a jail cell
>the fucking weeb wanker, who spend most of the book painting before he defeats one of the marines with his thousand times folded power katana
>the thousand sons sorcerer who, deletes his own psy abilities somehow
>The fuck was the point in the Son of Horus marine, who does nothing then slips away when no one is looking
>general shitty dialog and characters

>>49408930
Pert doesn't really care. He already beats his boys for telling bad news, and he probably wasn't going to make the decimation fatal until he learned how easy it for IW geneseed to be accepted.
>>49409052
The Iron Hands come from a brutal world where people commit sucide through wasteland in order to not be a strain on resources. How else would they act?
>>49409149
He is a one man cabal. That's impressive for a Chaos Spawn. Let that sink in. We're letting a mindless, spineless, mewling Chaos Spawn ruin this thread. Stop giving him (you's).
>>49409220
French knew the Beast series was coming and wanted to give IFfags something.

>>49409220
Damn, that one too.
I liked how Unification asked for a single example about Dorn being wrong and the other namefags got each a different case of precisely that.

>>49409233
>The Iron Hands come from a brutal world where people commit sucide through wasteland in order to not be a strain on resources. How else would they act?
...hence why I like them being cunts? Hell, they even have a "Company of Bitter Iron" RoW. IWfags are envy.

>>49409233
>He is a one man cabal. That's impressive for a Chaos Spawn. Let that sink in. We're letting a mindless, spineless, mewling Chaos Spawn ruin this thread. Stop giving him (you's).

I know. I just fInd his autistic devotion to be rather quaint.

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>>49409233

>>49409232
The reason the Custodes was the warden in the first place was because he was compromised by a xeno viral agent and was weaker than your average marine.

The samurai was just stupid I agree.

The TS didn't delete his psy abilities; he fought against a blank and got fucked up.

Severian slipped away because they needed him for Vengeful Spirit.

It's McNeill, what do you expect

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>>49408967
You mean the Raven raven

>>49409315
Kek

>>49409362
If only we can draw Pert's tank with those stickers and plate.

>>49409259
I suppose it's too late to claim I was making the point about Dorn being better for his flaws.

>>49409313
>he fought against a blank and got fucked up.

fuck no is being fucked up then, then he reaches into his soul, finds his psy core or something adn crushes, so he can then see the blank, and kick his stupid ass

the custode was STILL in full armour, with a power spear. and the world eater had still been in his cell for ages. unless mariens are immune to muscle wastage, which hey might be, i dont think its ever addressed. And if these guys were so dangerous, why the fuck was crippled mcgee send to guard them? Especially seeing as they went to all thr trouble to put them in super special cells a bit like magnetos ones from xmen. By covering one plot hole, you open another

there was 1 cool guy in the book, and that was the thunder warrior, though how the emp didn't notice a thunder warrior on terra, i dont know

>>49409362
>>49409390
I don't know if that's the Tormentor or random IW vehicle.

Guise, is there an ETA for sisters of silence yet?

>>49409425
>the Tormentor
Shit, that's way better, changing the file name now.

>>49409408
If it serves as consolation, Guilliman not only has his own version of Tyrants, but also two flavours of Breachers, with Scutums rather than kite shields.

>>49409432
Not really, though since the prospero box will come out in October I think its safe to say that Inferno should also come out in October.

>>49409432
November/December

>>49409420
Because it wasn't just him; he was just the warden. There were entire batallions of regular soldier there; and Emps needed all Custodes possible in the webway war; so it's understandable that they might have been a bit understaffed.

And they weren't that dangerous; they just got thrown in there because they didn't know who could turn traitor next.

Regarding the Thunder Warrior; he mentions he faked his death and Emps has more important shit to do than care about all the crime lords in a world of trillions

>>49409475
>Breachers
Wasn't the white dwarf leak the November issue?

>>49409471
But anon, I prefer the look of Scutums

>>49409555
Everybody does, Uni. Everybody does.
I guess the Fists got kite shields because that's what the saxons used, or something like that? Also, cheap powersword breacher roman legionnaries

>>49409508
remember white dwarf is a highlight of last months releases these days

>>49409619
Oh right yeah, thank you.

>>49409619
So Genestealers come next week, any idea what's after that?

>>49409674
probably more genestealers

I doubt they'll have as much to them as deathwatch, but my money's on a two-part release.

>>49408765
Be'lakor never really felt like he belonged in 30k/40k, and his inclusion fucked with other aspects of the lore.

I think it'd be better if everyone just forget they ever printed that dataslate.

>>49409674
Crap. Crap. Crap. Then Burning of Prospero.

>>49409709
Yeah that seems like a good possibility, though Prospero and Inferno could easily be at the end of October.

My guess is

>Genestealer contents from Overkill+codex
>Second batch of genestealers stuff, probably a vehicle and new genestealer kit
>Fenris pt2
>That rumored bike box set
>Prospero box

>>49409709
>>49409718
Good. Even better if it's after the next paycheck.
Burning of Prospero is the official name, right?

>>49409798
WD cover says "The Burning of Prospero," so I don't see why not.

>>49409798
Betrayal on Orbit: Prospero.
BOOP

>>49409841

Betraying Emperor exterminating Phall
BEEP

>>49409614
I don't think power axe and rectangular shields would look good together. Swords go with anything.

Where does one go these days to find torrents of HH novels ? Since the sites I knew have been taken down (specially kat.cr) it has been impossible to find anything any longer

>>49410028

What HH Novels do you want?