MTG Standard General: Full Spoiler Edition

>>49375976

Humans needs to splash G or R to remain competitive.

>>49377712
I literally just said that

>>49375976

>splash red
>no Hanweir Garrison

ISHIGGY it's like you hate value anon. You put in your list jank like Speedway Fanatic and yet you forget of good red cards.

>>49375976
>splash red for Speedway Fanatic
>no vehicles
what's wrong with you, anon? put in some renegade trains at least, to up your artifact count and be big swingers.

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>>49375976
>diabolic tutor reprint
Am I wrong for thinking black just got a lot better from this alone? Not to say that Dark Petition was bad, but it wasn't a straight tutor and needed that secondary effect to activate to actually feel worth it. Yeah Languish going away sucks, but there are alternatives to make do with.

>>49381695
>but it wasn't a straight tutor
What the fuck are you talking about? the effect is literally the same, just upshifted one mana for the spell mastery.

>>49381695

Diabolic Tutor has almost never seen play in standard, and it's not about to start now. The only reason Dark Petition was good was that it was effectively a tutor for 2, because tutoring for 4 or 5 is not worth it.

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>>49381715
I guess that did come out wrong. I had a long day and my brain is exhausted, anon.

What I mean is that it's not "search, add, shuffle", but more "search, add, shuffle, then do some other shit" with an additional (1).It's not completely straight, just bent a little bit. Water still flows but at an angle.

>>49381738
You have a point there. I just figured that because you can cast it earlier it would generally be better. Sure you're effectively casting Petition for two, but five lands had to be tapped and you're only getting an all-black rebate from it. Am I just retarded for not really seeing the worth in that?

Workshopping a W/R Aggro deck for standard. What the hell do I cut?
Creatures: (22)
4 Inventor's Apprentice
4 Toolshaper Paradigm
4 Thraben Inspector
4 Speedway Fanatic
2 Depala, Pilot Exemplar
4 Veteran Motorist
Artifacts (18)
4 Bomat Courtier
4 Renegade Freighter
4 Smuggler's Copter
4 Fleetwheel Cruiser
2 Skysovereign, Consul Flagship
Spells (12)
4 Always Watching
4 Start Your Engines
4 Built To Last
Lands (24)
2 Inventors' Fair
4 Inspiring Vantage
10 Mountain
8 Plains

>>49375976
Standard is shit and you are shit at evaluating cards

>>49382173
t. Twincuck

>>49381800
Version 2: 60 card deck edition!
Creatures: 16
4 Inventor's Apprentice
4 Toolshaper Paradigm
4 Thraben Inspector
2 Depala, Pilot Exemplar
2 Veteran Motorist
Artifacts: 10
4 Bomat Courtier
2 Renegade Freighter
3 Fleetwheel Cruiser
1 Skysovereign, Consul Flagship
Spells: 7
3 Always Watching
4 Start Your Engines
Land: 22
2 Inventor's Fair
4 Inspiring Vantage
9 Mountain
7 Plains

>>49382660
petitioning to rename 'bomat courier' as 'bonnet courier'.
because I misread it as that, and I find the idea of it being a hat delivery system hilarious.

Literally just gonna run izzet machine gun with Lashnu hellions and that's it

Shit set imo

>>49382717
>adding cretures to a deck based on casting lots of noncreature spells
seems shit imo

>>49382821
I'll take a few of the red spells to replace the things that are rotating but they aren't anything special

Hellion is just a cool 4 damage to face so I don't see how it can be bad in a burn style deck

>>49382717
because you don't understand the power of cute.
filigree familiar, workshop assistant, eager construct, highspire artisan.

>>49382862
It doesn't trigger your Thermo-Alchemists, it doesn't take ice off your Things, and it doesn't discount your Bedlam Revelers once it's in the graveyard.

>>49375976
Jeskai and Esper control lists seem ...actually viable. Wtf?!

>>49382893
I don't run the thing bedlam version

>>49382660
I'd throw in the Smuggler's Copter, it's super cheap and gives you a lot of reach since it's flying.


>>49382908
Control in general looks like it's going to be strong this standard - none of the aggro lists seem to pan out. I'm expecting Fevered Visions to still be really big, Jeskai Control is great.

>>49383095
I was running a playset of those, I just forgot to put it in. Other changes: Thraben Inspector 2 of, Speedway Fanatic 3 of.

Even without Kytheon and Dragon Hunter Humans will surge now that Languish and other fast removal is gone

>>49383183
>I was running a playset of those, I just forgot to put it in. Other changes: Thraben Inspector 2 of, Speedway Fanatic 3 of.

Okay cool, I was also gonna say that your math only added up to 55 cards in that other post.

I'd add in some basic removal, Fiery Temper or Incendiary Flow should be fine. Gives you again more ways to burn out an opponent at low life.

As a sideboard, I'd recommend Thalia or Consul's Power (that one W enchantment that makes enemy creatures come in tapped) versus Aggro. Only 2 I can think of at the moment.

>>49383378
You put in Fragmentize against people siding in Consul's Power, Consul's Power against the mirror, and maybe Incendiary Sabotage agiainst tokens, if the Cryptolith Rite meme turns real. Welding Sparks seems like it could be a good tool to kill big blockers. Maybe a one of Avacyn/the white gearhulk in the sideboard? I'm not too good at stuff like that.

>>49383436
Fragmentize is an auto 2 of at least in sideboards, definitely agreed. Maybe even more depending on how crazy it gets.

Everything else definitely worth testing too, especially Avacyn.

>>49383453
Well I'm definitely including Fragmentize, considering there's at least two people at my LGS committed to U/W Flicker with Panharmonicon using Reflector Mage, Eldrazi Displacer, and that new 5 drop that draws cards and gains life.

My friend is pestering me for the Emrakuls I pulled and never use because I can't play fnm. What are the chances of them seeing play?

>>49383656
Pretty large. They're standard staples right now because the mindslaver effect combined with a huge body is really strong.

>>49383691

That's what I thought. I guess I should just hold onto them for now?

>Standard General

Really? I thought /tg/ thinks Standard is icky.

>>49384074

>Le 4chan sowing circle

I hate retards who buy into borgfag shit like this.
you are the worst

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Trying to get back into standard with Kaladesh rotating in. How's aggro been performing in the current standard?

Pic related is what I am working on right now. Everyone's going nuts over vehicles and I just want to style everyone out in goggles.

Suggestions on best artifacts to use for B/R burn or B/R creature lite control? Need Unlicensed Disintegration to deal 3 on turn 3, and Dynavolt tower is also a 3 drop.

Should I use the courier 1 cmc with haste?

>>49384593
Land base needs work. Do you have anything against Needle spires? Fast lands?

>>49384593
What about Kazuls toll collector? As far as equipment goes what about Slayers plate, captains claws, stone forge masterwork

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>>49385122
Just money restrictions. If I end up getting them I'll put them in but right now I;m just testing with a shoddy land base

>>49385161
Toll collector might be good, especially if running things like plate. PRoblem with plate is that it doesn't synergize well with non humans and overall is kind of big and clunky. Claws are great though, I keep experimenting with and without them. I do want them in though since they are a neato card. Stoneforge masterwork also is dipping in and out of testing because the deck is double tribal of allies and artificers.

>>49381695
That quote is so shitty.
They should have gone with the moment where Lili try to girl-talk her out of the street, just before they go to Kaladesh.

>>49384074
>Really? I thought /tg/ thinks Standard is icky.

Normally standard is shit, but powerful standards are always fun. See: INN/RTR, SOM/INN , RAV/TSP

>>49383792
If you're not using it, trade it. Its value is only going to go down because it doesn't have any Eternal play

>>49384646
Metalworker's Puzzleknot. One of the best artifacts in the set IMO, it's basically an artifact version of Think Twice

I always like dumb stuff that doesn't work, so here's my first draft at a module deck:

Animation Module x4
Decoction Module x4
Fabrication Module x4

Glint-nest Crane x3
Reckless Fireweaver x4
Whirler Virtuoso x4
Bomat Courier x2
Hedron Crawler x3
Foundry Inspector x3
Filigree Familiar x2

Glimmer Of Genius x3
Era of Innovation x2

Aether Hub x4
Inventor’s Fair x2
Ruins of Oran-Rief x3
Spirebluff Canal x4
Evolving Wilds x2
Mountain x3
Island x4

I'm not sure if Bomat Courier deserves to be here, but I wanted another 1 drop, and he can be a cheap body to kickstart the Modulation/maybe stash a couple cards if I run out of gas. Top deck him with an empty/useless hand and he's a cantrip.

Era of Innovation combos with Whirler Virtuoso, for a slimpler version of the Modules.

This deck is testing really well so far, can drop an Ulamog on turn 4 fairly easily. I just feel like there are a couple of cards that could be switched for something more optimized, just can't think of what they should be. A lot of the lands seem unnecessary. Debating cutting Mirrorpool as it hasn't been playing well. Also kind of want to jam red in there, Kozilek's Return and Combustible Gearhulk.

Aether Hub 4x
Lumbering Falls 3x
Sanctum of Ugin 3x
Forest 5x
Island 7x
Mirrorpool 2x

Woodweaver's Puzzleknot 4x
Glassblower's Puzzleknot 4x
Aetherworks Marvel 4x

World Breaker 2x
Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger 4x
Thriving Turtle 4x
Aethersquall Ancient 2x

Jace, Unraveler of Secrets 2x
Nissa, Vital Force 2x

Attune with Aether 4x
Part the Waterveil 4x

>>49389683
how can you drop ulmog on turn 4?

>>49389963
Turn 1 Attune with Aether or Thriving Turtle Energy = 2
Turn 2 Puzzleknot E = 4 or 5
Turn 3 another Puzzleknot or break the Puzzleknot in play E = 6-8
Turn 4 play Aetherworks Marvel, tap and use 6 energy and hopefully get Ulamog in top 6 cards E = 0-2

>>49388544
For the life of me I can't find a "metalworker's puzzleknot"

>>49390198
Found it, actually named "Metalspinner's Puzzleknot", and thanks for reminding me that existed, just started brewing my esper control deck and that should fit really well.

>>49389683
the deck looks pretty shitty desu.

Any aggro can destroy you pretty fast and you will be screwed if you dont get ulamog or anything good after playing marvel's ability.

>>49390400
yeah just retooled it adding a couple of Kozilek's Returns and Combustible Gearhulks. I think you're underestimating how quickly the deck generates energy. With the Aetherworks in play, either of the Puzzleknots get you up to 6 energy for 5 total mana so it's very feasible to activate it on turn 4 and then again on 5. It's definitely going to be the new CoCo type card I think.

>>49390447
what did you change on the list?

>>49385320
>>49384593

this is super bad, cards like dec in stone and always watching are a must, and bushwhacker and weapons trainer are just meh.

If there was a "when an equipment comes into play draw a card" card existed then your list would be hot fire, but unfortunately no.

>>49390470
4 Aether Hub
4 Woodweaver's Puzzleknot
3 Glassblower's Puzzleknot
4 Aetherworks Marvel
2 Nissa, Vital Force
4 Part the Waterveil
2 World Breaker
4 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
2 Lumbering Falls
6 Forest
8 Island
3 Thriving Turtle
4 Attune with Aether
2 Combustible Gearhulk
2 Kozilek's Return
3 Mountain
3 Saheeli Rai

idk why Cockatrice doesn't sort by type, annoying

The reality is every deck needs to either be emerge or beat kozileks return now so the format is going be unbelievably narrow. If you thought the field played mostly coco wait till 50% of the decks are temurge.

Standard is about to suck hard.

I've been building G/W humans for a while before rotation, and I can say that it plays fairly consistently, and able to outrace most decks, and even thermothing crumples when faced with even a single cast of Heron's Grace Champion.

The only bad matchup I've found is against Eldrazi ramping, which I've yet to find a decent sideboard for.

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i like collecting cards and making decks but i literally have nobody to play with, what do bros

>>49390560
Are you me? Anyway swallow your autism and go to your LGS, and hope the people there aren't a bunch of insufferable cunts like the ones in mine.

>>49390560
kill yourself fagget

>>49390514
still looks pretty horrible.

>>49390593

How good is Kozilek Return with 2/3 Creatures running in T2?

4x Contingency Plan
4x Crush of Tentacles
1x Cryptolith Rite
4x Evolving Wilds
9x Forest
4x Grapple with the Past
7x Island
4x Jaddi Offshoot
2x Kiora, Master of the Depths
4x Lumbering Falls
4x Nissa, Voice of Zendikar
3x Primal Druid
3x Pulse of Murasa
3x Splendid Reclamation
4x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

meme rites is in there for meme-magic, haven't lost a single game with this duck

>>49390593
>kill yourself fagget
that's very helpful anon

>>49388169
Just cutting the attribution would have helped.

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Thoughts on upgrading the R/W weapons trainer meme deck? Sigarda's blessing? Toolcraft Exemplar maybe? Gideon?

>>49390585
>go to your LGS
ehhh i can try i guess, hope they play casual and not are tryhard faggots

>>49390886
Fragmentize would be a good tool to put in the sideboard.

>>49375976
Kytheon is a massive loss i think. Also how high on the curve do you want to go. Gisela is at 4 and Avacyn is at 5, and I think both are pretty reasonable in this deck

>>49390886
Toolcraft Exemplar is a straight improvement over Expedition Envoy in most cases, but since you're running a deck with a lot of Ally synergy I would suggest avoiding it.

>>49390907
there are usually people at any LGS that are cool with playing casual formats like EDH, but most people don't wanna play janky shitty brewstandard. If you have a pauper scene in your area thats pretty fun to fool around with.

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What do I do with these cards for standard?

An entire werewolf deck
Almost all vampires except those from Zendikar
Most of the madness-cards

All of the Zendikar Eldrazi except the titans

2 World Breakers

Eldritch evolution
That deathtouch mana-dork
2 Ishkanah

2 Gideons
2 Sorin
2 Gisela+Bruna
2 Dec in Stone
2 Thalia

Jund delerium, something RG, BW control or something else?

been thinking of taking the GB emrakul shell, making it red and adding in the red gearhulk, new chandra, and k. return when kaladesh ships

what do you guys think?

>>49391683
what is your jund delirium deck look like

this is the poster right below you

I really hate those creature with 2/3 stats. They me kozilek return pretty useless and there is no strog -x/-x board effect. The new demon is too expensive and most of the time you will be dead before you estabilize.

>>49392675
But Anon if creatures didn't have T>P, they might die in combat!

>>49375976
Does anyone have a thermo visions list I could base off of?

>Back at college
>Skip the first few fnms because I have things going on, or I just don't feel like it
>Go to the place where fnm happens last night
>It went out of business
Feels fucking bad, man. The closest place is like an hour or so away now.

>>49392208
No, I don't have a delerium deck yet, I'm wondering if I should use those cards I have to build what kind of deck.

4x Harsh Scrutiny

3x Subtle Strike
3x Rush of Vitality
4x Scraphead Scrounger
4x Syndicate Trafficker
4x Fretwork Colony

3x Weaponcraft Enthusiast
3x essence extraction
4x Murder
2x Succumb to Temptation

3x Aetherborn marauder

23x Swamp


Help is appreciated.

2x Authority of Consuls
4x Reflector Mage
3x Spell Queller
2x Lost Legacy
4x Unsubstantiate
4x Refabricate
2x Panharmonicon
4x Cataclysmic Gearhulk
2x Noxious Gearhulk
2x Torrential Gearhulk
3x Declaration in Stone
4x Collective Brutality
3x Concealed Courtyard
4x Sunken Hollow
3x Inventors' Fair
2x Evolving Wilds
3x Island
4x Plains
3x Swamp
2x Prairie Stream

Esper Titans > Esper Planeswalkers

>>49381695

>Did you see what Nissa is wearing?

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>>49394482
I made this less shitty and put it on tappedout
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/17-09-16-esper-titans/

Land (23)
3x Concealed Courtyard
2x Evolving Wilds
3x Inventor's Fair
3x Island
4x Plains
2x Prairie Stream
4x Sunken Hollow
2x Swamp

Enchantment (2)
2x Authority of the Consulate

Creature (16)
4x Cataclysmic Gearhulk
2x Curious Homunculus Flip
2x Noxious Gearhulk
3x Reflector Mage
3x Spell Queller
2x Torrential Gearhulk

Instant (7)
3x Anticipate
4x Unsubstantiate

Sorcery (12)
4x Collective Brutality
3x Declaration in Stone
2x Morbid Curiosity
3x Refurbish

Sideboard (15)
3x Dispel
3x Horribly Awry
3x Spell Shrivel
3x Thalia, Heretic Cathar
3x Anguished Unmaking

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>>49390886
Sigarda's Aid
>pic related sweet tech

>>49381695
This art is so fucking garbage it hurts I wanna buy 100 of these so I can burn them all

>>49394891
The art is objectively better than the flavor text.

>>49394939
That's not saying anything.

>>49390259
>brewing my esper control deck

take a look plz sir
>>49394782

>>49390506
Yeah but I don't think wizards really wants another puresteel paladin, which fucking sucks. Been testing with the smuggler copter so I might include those because they are okay at filtering. Same thing with evolving wilds.

I might even just end up turning it back into equipment allies instead of equipment artificers and run aviaries to allies back to my hand to trigger rally.

Were there any draw a card when an ally enters the field cards?

>>49375976
G/W Tokens, need to replace Secure the Wastes

4x Fortified Village
4x Evolving Wilds
2x Westvale Abbey
6x Plains
6x Forest

4x Hanweir Militia Captain
3x Thalia's Lieutenant
3x Lambholt Pacifist
2x Sylvan Advocate
1x Archangel Avacyn

4x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
3x Nissa, Voice of Zendikar
1x Tamiyo, Field Researcher
1x Sorin, Grim Nemesis
1x Chandra, Flamecaller (to be replaced with Torch)

4x Oath of Nissa
4x Secure the Wastes
4x Dromoka's Command (Collective Effort)
2x Declaration in Stone
1x Quarantine Field

What's the best way to take out Ulamog or Emrakul?

>>49395057
I'm taking a bit of a different approach myself. Of course still using a few of the gearhulks, but I'm running a bit of an energy subtheme ending in that flier that bounces the board with loodrifter and some other etb value guys.

>>49395520

>Ula
Exile effects
>Emrakul
Non-instant exile effects
>both
Summary Dismissal, Infinite Obliteration (Lost Legacy post-rotation), just kill them before they cast them.

>>49395520
Stasis Snare

No hexproof, and little enchantment hate, still at instant speed

>>49396514
That's the answer I'm looking for. Thanks hoss.

how does spirits change?
my list looks like:

"Creatures" (28)
4x Mausoleum Wanderer
4x Rattlechains
4x Spell Queller
4x Selfless Spirit
4x Nebelgast Herald
4x Reflector Mage
4x Smuggler's Copter
3x Skysovereign

Lands (24)
7x Plains
7x Island
2x Aether Hub
4x Port Town
4x Prairie Stream

Spells
2x Stasis Snare
3x Mana Leak

>>49388169
The quote sounds like something out of a porno.

Not a doujin, though. Not enough body part-pussy for that.

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>>49391683
>>49393208
Bump

>>49391683
temurge is pretty rotation proof and you have ishkanah

>>49396132
Sounds close to the other deck I brewed tonight, pure U/W etb goodness

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/aetherhuffing/
Creature (13)
4x Aether Theorist
3x Aethersquall Ancient
3x Thriving Turtle
3x Toolcraft Exemplar
3x Glint-Nest Crane

Enchantment (8)
3x Consulate Surveillance
3x Era of Innovation
2x Sigarda's Aid
3x Glint-Nest Crane

Land (23)
8x Island
7x Plains
4x Port Town
4x Prairie Stream

Artifact (8)
3x Cathar's Shield
2x Decoction Module
3x Inventor's Goggles

Instant (2)
2x Paradoxical Outcome

Sorcery (3)
3x Declaration in Stone

Will White weenies survive rotation?

Or should I look into building a red deck instead?

>>49398242
Thermo Visions is getting stronger if you want to do UR.
White will get weaker with cards like White Orchid, flip Kytheon, and Tithing angel leaving but I'd say with Cat Gearhulk, the current white escalate cards, and the not-vampire-night-hawk getting printed the color will be fine. Good enough for white weenies? No. Expect WU tempo with things like spell queller.

>>49399041
>stronger

Debatable. It's getting some more toys but no straight upgrades or direct replacement for cards it loses (mostly fiery impulse).

I do look forward to figuring out what works and what doesn't, though.-

>>49399861
>lost cards
All it is really losing is Impulse and Jayce. Impulse can be replaced with galvanic or the energy-based lightening strike. Jayce can be replaced with the new RU walker, stormchaser mages, or main boarded lightening weavers.
I think the deck is over all getting more powerful by getting another turn 3 clock that helps your draw step.

>>49384593
What the fuck are you even doing
Stop
STOP

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>>49398242
Sorry friend, you only had 6 months with that particular deck. You're going to have to get hold of all these new mythic rares if you want to be competitive for the next 6 months!

>>49399952
Galvanic blast isn't as good as impulse, mostly because it can't kill a 3 toughness creature on first cast.

Saheeli is interesting, especially since you can copy a guy to double prowess / ping triggers. Mainboard lightning weaver would be a mistake. Energy lightning strike looks interesting but I don't think it's playable on its own (it doesn't hit players) and there aren't really any other good energy-based spells to run (Dynavolt Tower maybe but it sounds really bad on paper).

Chandra fits into the deck as well. I am probably going to run a 1-of Saheeli and 1-of Chandra. Another good addition is the Spark of Creativity - the opponent has to decide whether to respond to it in some way before he knows what mode you'll actually do so it's a great way to deal with unwanted creatures. The 2RR instant that deals damage equal to cards in hand and then wheels is going to be a major player in the UR deck as well.

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jesus christ i posted in the wrong thread, anyways

can energy be spent more than once in a situation where you are allowed to pay it?

example: voltaic brawler allows you to pay E when attacking to give him +1/+1 and trample until end of turn

can I do that twice? EE for +2/+2 and trample?

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>>49390506
>weapons trainer and bushwhacker are meh

You haven't tested this deck enough. I can assure you that.

>>49395272
Equipped Allies are still the best option out there. Trainer's bônus needs First Strike to bring real value to the table, and Kor Bladewhirl is the only one that can bring that kind of Support, specially with Captain's Claws around.

I'm honestly sad that Kyteon is going away. It's synergy with Bushwhacker was amazing. But've got enough people pants down with it already, time to move on.

>>49402066
Nope. The card says you may pay a single E, so that's it. If you were able to pay more than that, the effect would say so specifically.

My Izzet Machinegun build is losing a pretty important card:

Turn To Frog.

I won FNM last night on the back of that thing. It's massive value, especially with the synergy with Weaver of Lightning.

For example, someone flashed in Avacyn to take out an attacking Wandering Fumarole. I turned her into a frog and Weaver pinged her out to let the 4 go through.

Another game, someone had resolved a Gisa and Geralf and I had no answers. If he was able to cast a Diregraf Colossus with it, it'd be too big for my removal and he'd get three Prized Amalgam for his trouble.

So I turned it into a frog on his upkeep. He had nothing to do with his turn (he'd pitched his hand) and I was able to topdeck a crucial Collective Defiance.

It's a killer tempo card that becomes "1U: Destroy target creature, even if it has indestructible" more often than not in my deck.

How do I replace it?

Ayy nerds can you tell me how to get back into magic when i didn't play for 12 years this guy at the local store kept going on about pre-release or something.
I told him I want to play my old cards.

>>49402545
if your old cards are good you can get into modern
if not you're out of luck

>>49402545
The pre-release is a Sealed Deck event. You get six packs of the new set and you made a deck with it and you play through a tournament that way.

If you want to play with your old cards, you'll probably have to play casual Magic. Modern lets you use anything from Eighth Edition/Mirrodin onward and Legacy lets you use anything, but they're competitive formats using the best cards from ~12 and ~23 years of Magic, respectively, so the bar is high.

There's also EDH, a multiplayer variant which allows all sets. Depending on your playgroup, it ranges from kitchen-table "these cards are cool, I will put them in a deck with land" Magic as a pillow fight to Legacy as a monster truck rally.

>>49402511
Gift of Tusks is a similar style but gives 3 toughness. Only costs U though

>>49402066
If it says "If X does X, you may pay X. If you do, X", it only triggers once, after you fulfill the condition.

If said "E: ~ gets +1/+1 until end of turn", then you can activate it multiple times as long as you can pay the cost.

>>49403227
It's much worse. I always need a burn spell to kill a 3/3 and can't block a 3/3 with Thermo-Alchemist.

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>whirler virtuoso with three decoction module effects can create infinite thropters
>you can use saheeli and saheeli's sculpting to make copies of artifacts

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Will this floppy winged mamal see standard play as a beater?

>>49406157
A 3/1 for 3 as a best case scenario, when Kozilek's Return is in standard? Not a chance.

>>49381695
>if you try hard enough an elf can fit your whole arm in their pussy

I guy at FDM spell queller'd a blessed alliance when he attacked with a monster. Does Spell Queller effectively counter the blessed alliance effect or should have the effect resolved and then spell queller exiles the spell?

>>49406157
No, but he will be a beater in limited

>>49407369
Spell Queller effectively counters the spell, but it then gets recast if the queller leaves the battlefield

>>49407546
What if it's not an instant that counters the spell? Creatures and sorceries can't be played at instant speed.

>>49396426
Lost Legacy only hits non-creatures.

>>49407820
I'm not quite sure what you mean, but spell queller has flash.

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Hot garbage coming through

4x Mausoleum Wanderer
4x Rattlechains
4x Selfless Spirit
2x Archangel Avacyn
2x Odric, Lunarch Marshal
4x Thraben Inspector
4x Spell Queller
4x Reflector Mage
3x Essence Flux
3x Long Road Home
2x Void Shatter
4x Always Watching
4x Port Town
2x Meandering River
7x Plains
7x Island

>>49407820
That's only because the rules don't say you can play creatures or sorceries at instant speed. There's no rule prohibiting it, only a lack of rules allowing it.

When spell queller leaves play, the delayed trigger allows you to cast the spell right then, regardless of what type of card it is.

>>49408034
Wrong. Lost Legacy can't hit lands or artifacts.

>>49408115
Huh. The translation I saw must have been wrong. It might be playable then.

Also with all the 3-toughness creatures, I'm thinking radiant flames may be a better card for standard than kozi's return. Thoughts?

>>49408098
Im pretty sure hes talking about whats exiled under the spell queller

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Working on a U/R shitbrew with a focus of Contingency Plan into Combustible Gearhulk dealing out heavy damage with Metalwork Colossus. Energy generation is secondary and mainly to get out some extra damage with Dynavolt Tower, but I feel I could do a little more with it. Still need to flesh out the sideboard a little more too.

4x Metalwork Colossus
4x Combustible Gearhulk
3x Inventor's Apprentice
3x Reckless Fireweaver
3x Aether Theorist
3x Minister of Inquiries

4x Contingency Plan
3x Fateful Showdown
3x Disappearing Act

2x Glassblower's Puzzleknot
2x Aetherworks Marvel
2x Dynavolt Tower
2x Prophetic Prism

10x Island
12x Mountain

SIDEBOARD

3x Ceremonious Rejection
2x Torrential Gearhulk
2x Fabrication Module

>>49408604
why is this not instant and just scry 5

>>49408729
Because making competitive blue cards is illegal.

>>49408740
Ok ill fix it
>1g
>target creature you control fights a creature and opponent controls scry X where X is equal to the power of all creatures that died this turn
This is halal, no?

>>49409188
>and
fucking phone posting man. I meant an.

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>>49408102
actually not totally terrible

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whats the best of the cycle artifacts (cobra/elephant/peacock/etc.)? Whats the best of the thriving beasts? (ibex, rhino, etc.)

>>49412587
Mastodon/Cobra
Rhino

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>>49413148
also realized the turtle is good shit

>>49408729
Getting to choose between putting them in the yard or on your deck is better than scrying

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its time for Top Gear challenge, Dwarf edition.

3 Depala, Pilot Exemplar
4 Veteran Motorist
3 Speedway Fanatic
2 Pia Nalaar
3 Toolcraft Exemplar
2 Gearshift Ace
2 Cultivator's Caravan
3 Fleetwheel Cruiser
4 renegade frighter
4 Smuggler's Copter
1 Skysovereign, Consul Flagship
3 Built to Last
2 Built to Smash
4 Inspiring Vantage
4 Needle Spires
8 Mountain
7 Plains
1 Inventor's Fair

Side Board

2 Angel of Invention
1 Toolcraft Exemplar
1 Gearshift Ace
2 Structural Distortion
2 Built to Smash
3 Welding Sparks
1 Skysovereign, Consul Flagship
1 Built to Last
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar

i've already tested this fucker out and it is capable of obscene things and is amazing against sorcery speed removal.

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>>49384593
did you by chance miss this fine specimen of a magic card

>>49414443
>with Artificers Goggles he's a 1 mana 4/4

>>49413409
the turtle's the best. cast that fucker 12 times a game.

>>49414443
That shit is way too good. With Bone Saw and Weapons Trainer it swings for 4 turn 2.
Too bad Aggro Equips is still shit in the Meta.
Our only hope is that UR Thermo hates out control decks with too much creature removal.

>>49393208
Here's my Jund Delerium list. Just taken one of the lists from the latest tournaments and swapped out rotating cards for Kaladesh goodstuff.

2 Cinder Glade
3 Evolving Wilds
5 Forest
1 Hissing Quagmire
4 Blooming Marsh
1 Mountain
4 Smoldering Marsh
4 Swamp

2 Distended Mindbender
1 Emrakul, the Promised End
2 Ishkanah, Grafwidow
1 Noxious Gearhulk
4 Filigree Familliar

4 Grapple with the Past
2 Kozilek's Return
2 Unlicensed Disintegration
3 Traverse the Ulvenwald
2 Incendiary Flow

3 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance

4 Vessel of Nascency
4 Metalspinner's Puzzleknot

New cards + thoughts:

Blooming Marsh - GB fastland has to be included. Too good not to.

Noxious Gearhulk - Powerful body, two types for delerium and removal spell on a stick. Would run an extra if it didn't cost 6.

Filigree Familliar - Genuinely think this little shit fills a hell of a slot. Gains a little life on entry, two types for Delerium, draws a card when trading/emerging/board wiping. Da real MVP.

2 Unliscenced Disintegration - The closest we'll probably ever get to a true Terminate reprint. Destroys any creature and if you're sitting on a Filigree/Puzzleknot you get a free bolt to their face. #valuetown

Chandra, Torch of Defiance - #meme #fallenforthehype but hear me out here. Mana tick up synergises with Flow and Puzzleknot. Card advantage tick up is awesome as long as it doesn't hit Emrakul too early. -3 kills just about everything. Ultimate wins the game. It does all the things and playtesting has shown her to be pretty good.

Metalspinner's Puzzleknot - 2 mana, draw a card and lose a life, useable late game for card advantage and adds a type to Delerium.

Thoughts are appreciated!

>>49417771
This is actually very close to what I'm playing and what I might turn it into. I'd still run at least 1 ruinous though, we have afuck ton if planeswalkers, and my build might actually have 1 less lili and Chandra and in place add and new nissa, new nissa is insane, but I'll work out the curve later after play testing. Sylvan advocate didn't make the cut?

>>49418196
GDD* damn auto correct

>>49418196
Sylvan Advocate was definately considered, but i'm not sure what i'd cut. Puzzleknot might be worth cutting as well as a couple of copies of Filigree if i wanted desperately to make the cut. It depends how agressive the meta is: Control heavy meta means more card draw, Aggro heavy meta = more bodies. Plus i havent worked out sideboard slots yet, so it could be good.

I wasn't a huge fan of new Nissa with playtesting. She's powerful but feels clunky. Not sure where i'd slot her in my list.

Agree on the Ruinous Path though. Will make the sideboard at least.

>>49417771
Why no Mind-Wrack Demon or Mini-Garruk?

>>49408187
>Also with all the 3-toughness creatures, I'm thinking radiant flames may be a better card for standard than kozi's return.

I've been running into this issue a lot and I would agree with you there.

Why is Green still the best color in Standard?

>>49418868
Not sure what you're referring to by Mini-Garruk, but Mind-Wrack Demon, while powerful and effective, seemed to hurt me too much if i mess up with the delerium. Plus wasn't too sure what to cut.

>>49419160
Liking the idea of Radiant flames too, but with maining Eldrazi, Kozi's Return feels better synergy wise.

>>49419182
Sylvan Advocate and Tireless Tracker help a bit with that...

>>49390054
>tap and use 6 energy and hopefully get Ulamog in top 6 cards E = 0-2

hahaha

>>49419367
>Mini-Garruk
Grim flayer

>>49419432
Ahh... Well then...

I'm not playing him because Jund delerium replaces the lower end drops from GB Delerium with more removal and larger threats.

Also the idea of spending that ammount of money on 3 more Grim Flayers to make a playset makes me heave a little...

Creature (22)
2x Depala, Pilot Exemplar
4x Inventor's Apprentice
4x Lupine Prototype
4x Speedway Fanatic
4x Toolcraft Exemplar
4x Veteran Motorist
Artifact (14)
4x Cultivator's Caravan
2x Demolition Stomper
2x Fleetwheel Cruiser
2x Skysovereign, Consul Flagship
4x Smuggler's Copter
Instant (4)
4x Built to Smash
Land (20)
4x Inspiring Vantage
8x Mountain
2x Needle Spires
6x Plains

I want the wolf to drive the car.

>>49421452
Name suggestions for this deck?

I nominate "Hot Wheels."

>people actually play standard
Literally why. It's clearly the most pushed format, the least cost-effective, has the lowest resale value, and causes completely arbitrary pricing on generally shitty cards. Let's look at the past few sets:

>the only expensive cards in kaladesh are the walkers
>everything else is below $10
>most things are below $1
>an objectively inferior Mindlslaver is worth $20, four times more than said mindslaver
>Liliana, a walker with next to no playability outside of standard is $50
>grim flayer is worth $18
>as soon as standard rotates, most cards become almost worthless

How do you justify this?

>>49421647

people like to play the game and Modern is just uninteractive aggro decks and Legacy is dead.

>>49421768
But what about limited and edh? The best parts of everything without the shittiest parts of the other constructed formats.

>>49421647
>People like to play the format that is played at the pro tour
>Several small investments of 10 - 20 are easier for some people to handle than one large investment of 3-5k to play Modern/Legacy.
>A higher proportion of standard cards are viable than in modern or legacy, even though it has a smaller card pool.
>Rotation adds diversity to the format, keeping it fresh.

Need more?

>>49421806

Most people just play standard out of whatever they got out of limited.

>edh

Wasn't that format ruined by Spikes?

>>49421877
>People like to play the format that is played at the pro tour
Again, it's the most pushed format because it's the most valuable to wizards. It has the worst resale value and generally the highest cost to keep a deck maintained year over year.

>Several small investments of 10 - 20 are easier for some people to handle than one large investment of 3-5k to play Modern/Legacy.
Arbitrary. You can build a very good modern deck using only $10-$20 cards. I don't think you can build a top tier standard deck only using $10-$20 cards.

>A higher proportion of standard cards are viable than in modern or legacy, even though it has a smaller card pool.
This is because there are cards being printed that are objectively inferior and unusable in other formats. This is like saying "well in my casual EDH group a lot more things are viable because the overall powerlevel is much lower."

>>Rotation adds diversity to the format, keeping it fresh.
But again, costs you a lot of money, and requires a significant investment in a brand new deck almost every set.

>Need more?
Yes, one reason that isn't "well, I don't like modern or legacy, and it's all we have."

>>49421968
Nah, EDH is fine and fun. You can build a very good deck for around $200, and it's consistently fun due to the diversity. Sure, some people are asshats, but that's why you build one competitive stax deck, and a bunch of less competitive fun decks.

>>49421994
I don't even mind playing Modern or Legacy. Play Jund and Nic Fit respectively. I just prefer standard because to me it's more fun to brew and it's easier to handle.

>>49422040
>I just prefer standard because to me it's more fun to brew and it's easier to handle.
See, that's a fine reason in my opinion, particularly if you're using draft chaffe. I just can't see why anyone would invest in a standard deck beyond fun.

>>49422066
Playing with a foil Emrakul 2.0 feels good man.

Come to the easy side.

>>49422099
Nah, I can't into playsets of cards. I can justify buying a blightsteel or an elesh norn because they're amazing and I only need one, but there is no way I could buy a playset of whatever the flavor of the month card is every time the format rotates.

Are there any cheap viable shitbrews, like that brain in a jar deck from SoI?

>>49422129

Thing in the Ice has crashed in price since release. Turns out an 0/4 do nothing isn't as good in modern as they thought. In standard however it does a fair ammount of work. The UR Fireworks deck loses Jace and Goggles, so the only two expensive cards go, but pick up the fast lands and some of the new burn spells coming out and the deck should be just as good as before.

Also
>Elesh Norn
>Blightsteel

Do we have a gifts player in our midst?

>>49422194
Okay, cool, I'll go to the prerelease and try to brew something up, just to say I have something. I have a TiTI already, I can easily pick up a playset on the cheap.

>Do we have a gifts player in our midst?
No, I'm actually timmy who loves fuckhuge impractical creatures. I have every praetor, every eldrazi titan, and a giant swathe of demons. But I'm really a stax player. Every deck I have can be made into stax.

>>49421994
What if I play both Standard and EDH? Keep a few Standard decks of varying levels for use at FNM/friendlies and several EDH decks for weekly Commander Night

>>49417771
I like this list, but I absolutely think you need radiant flames instead of kozilek's return, especially if you're not playing advocates.

>>49422495
Considered it, but stuck with Kozi's for Eldrazi synergy. Can always run them in the board for the "NEED A BOARD CLEAR" matchups.

>>49375976
This format is shit
Magic is deeeed
You all should kill yourselves

>>49421877
>3-5k
>Modern

pick one

Radiant Flames gets absolutely blown out by Spell Queller FYI

4 panharmonicon
2 torrential gearhulk
1 cataclysmic gearhulk

3 thraben inspector
4 glint-nest crane
4 reflector mage
2 filigree familiar
2 Wispweaver angel

2 essence flux
2 acrobatic maneuver
3 Eerie Interlude
3 void shatter
2 immolating glare
1 Fumigate

4 Port Town
4 Prarie Stream
3 Meandering River
2 Mirrorpool
4 Island
3 Plains
1 Wastes
4 Evolving Wilds

Sideboard
4 aerial responder
3 authority of the consuls
3 fragmentize
2 declaration in stone
2 summary dismissal
1 Fumigate

thoughts on blink182.dec?

>>49422735
>Sorcery speed control cards get BTFO by an extremely undercosted Mystic Snake

Wow, whoda thunk it? Also, the new 1 mana Black Discard (Harsh Scrutiny) is pretty boss against Spirits. I've been extremely happy with it in testing.

>>49422948
Where the fuck are your unsubstantiates

>>49423014
Not sure what they can replace. Maybe void shatter? I don't want to bounce my opponen'ts shit unless it's mirror guy

>>49423001

>extremely undercosted mystic snake

Spell queller seems like an impeccably balanced card to me

>>49423035
Bounce them on the stack so they dont get to play anything. This is the closest you're gunna get to a standard legal counterspell and it prevents on cast triggers.

>>49423036
If SQ had only 2 toughness or no flying I'd agree, but a cancel with a 2/3 flyer on it seems really strong. It removes a card (for most of the game) and gives you a beater.

>>49423074

>unsubstantiate prevents on-cast triggers

Umm no it doesnt

>>49423077
Getting the card back, and cast, if you kill it makes it a lot weaker than cancel.

We'll have to see how great it is when the capacity to dig for one with CoCo is gone.

>>49423077

You're just making subjective claims though, in point of fact it's quite balanced in standard, not oppressive to any deck in standard, it's not centralizing the format especially hard either, especially once coco leaves the format, and it's barely playable in any other format

>>49423074
>and it prevents on cast triggers.

kek no

>>49423088
I meant etb, sorry I didn't even realize how retarded that was.

>>49423036
>Spell queller seems like an impeccably balanced card to me

A 3 mana 2/3 flyer that can essentially counter most cards (CMC 4 or less) is ridiculously strong.

It goes overboard with the Spirit synergy where every card in the deck can protect the other cards in the deck.

If it were just by itself it might be fine, but it's not, and that's what makes it so good

>>49423077
>Dies to bolt

>>49423355
>eats bolt
>can eat two bolts

>>49423516

It can't eat two bolts without help, because 2nd bolt frees up the first one

Honestly spell queller just looks broken before it dies, once it dies things go back to normal and you realize it wasn't really broken all along

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Anybody here into pucatrade?

Why can't I get anyone to send me anything?

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>>49423532
Why is it bad it needs help when it's help can tempo out a game?

>>49423556
It's a crapshoot based on if you have stuff people want so they'll see your profile, or if you're asking for enough stuff at the same time so that people can profit off you reasonably for their effort.

>>49423584

I didn't say it was bad I was just clarifying that it doesn't really eat 2 removal spells on its own

It's not particularly good against removal heavy decks is what I'm saying, it's better used to tempo out against another proactive opponent

>>49423610
Thats why I said it can, not that it inherently does. Also panharmonicon can also make the spell queller's player fuck up hilariously if the player piloting the deck chokes.

>>49423653

How so?

>>49422948
its shit. how do you not have eldrazi displacer

>>49424260
You must counter two spells under the queller with panharmonicon out, some newer players might pick illegal targets or if we use the previous scenario might exile their first queller because they "need" two targets.

>>49424316

Spell queller can never counter itself no matter what else is in play, and it can't counter its own triggered ability either

Both triggers can target the same spell with no issue

>>49423556
I've been on Puca trade for about 2-3 months now. Got 1 Signal Pest out of it. Was cool.

>>49424347
The previous scenario was using a spell queller to protect a spell queller already on the stack if I read it closely enough.

>>49423556
pucatrade requires a large enough human userbase to maintain enough points in the system for trading to ever be worth it. Once it was clear that the site was bot-infested to hell and back, a lot of people sold out and anyone who's left now has hundreds of thousands of points that no one wants and they can't trade for anything.

tl;dr it got popular, which meant people exploited it, which got it shut down.

>>49424383

If you scroll up, all I can see is him saying panharmonicon + spell queller can cause fuck ups

even panharmonicon + 2 spell quellers is still no prob because all the triggers can target the same spell (whichever one you planned on countering to begin with)

>>49424287
because I'm an idiot that thought essence flux was a better card.

I'll have to rebalance the mana base but yeah that has to be fixed.

>>49417118
bonesaw is still not worth an inclusion dispite its cost, its far more likely would run the 0 drop sheild ,

I can't wait to create the 'Baral did nothing wrong' deck, and make it explicitly built around making Chandra players mad.

>control looks strong this Standard
>when there's no Duress in standard and all substitutes are limited by cost or scope
>when the only two good counterspells are either unable to target artifacts or can only target artifacts
>you effectively can't touch anything your opponent hasn't played
>despite this, control is still good
Just fuck my shit up.

That said, I'm thinking about a gimmicky deck with that Aetherflux Reservoir, and Fumigate. Maybe Authority of the Consuls to keep them from tearing down my life total and bringing it up faster. Also, Chaplain's Blessing is in Standard, as is Lone Rider and Peace of Mind. If I REALLY want to be a dick, I could play Serene Steward. And if I'm crazy enough, I could run creatures with Fabricate to make sure I get my money's worth out of Fumigate.

...it irritates me that White is so good this Standard, when Blue and Red have been nerfed as hard as they have.

>>49424525
how do you explicitly build against chandra players?

>mfw Ceremonious Rejection can counter Kozilek's Return
>mfw it shits on Emerge
>mfw it can prevent that one artifact engine AND Aether Reservoir
Oh boy.

>>49424699
I'll find a way.

>>49424719
im guessing you'd need lifegain to negate the direct damage, something like ruinous path to straight up destroy her, and some way to change there topdeck, so they'll never find anything useful with her +1. so something like Gonti Lifegain-control with 4 ruinous path maybe?

>>49424746
Black White or Esper Control?

I can dig that.

>>49394891
I like the IDEA of the art - it being a callback to the prior printing is neat.
The execution...not as much

>>49424760
if you're black-white,maybe include Kambal and Authority of the Consuls, so you practically gain life for everything they do, while also shutting down any hasty creatures.

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This shit is so lit. Probably gonna play bant angels this week but honestly if you like burn you have to try this. Very fun.

>>49423001
>Wow, whoda thunk it? Also, the new 1 mana Black Discard (Harsh Scrutiny) is pretty boss against Spirits. I've been extremely happy with it in testing.

It isn't the fact that it's sorcery speed you sperglord shithead. It's the fact that spell queller is effectively a hard counter against it, since if you cast it when queller leave the battlefield, it is cast for 0 making it do nothing.

>>49424713

>can counter a triggered ability

no

>>49390054
What if you dont get Ulamog? how the fuck are you going to prevent aggro from eating your face?
Kozilek Return is pretty crappy when there are 2/3 creatures in the metagame

>>49425259
>being this fucking bad at Magic
Please, read again what Kozilek Return do. then kys please, players like you are the reason magic is becomming a timmy safeplay game.

>>49424891
>pay one mana
>they respond with Queller
Oh look now you can get your card through.
Or cast it before turn 3, stripping it out of hand.

> it is cast for 0 making it do nothing.
only if they've got no creatures in hand.

>>49425334
>only if they've got no creatures in hand.
wut

>>49425414
if they have a creature card, you pick that card and they discard it.

Hell even if they have no creature cards in hand , you still get to see their hand and scry 1.

Or did you not read what Harsh Scrutiny does?

>>49425414
casting a spell means you play the spell and get its effects. The spells effects are written on the spell in the text box under the artwork title cost and card type. The new spell makes your opponent discard a creature card and if they dont have a creature you cannot make them discard a card and can only look at their hand.

How does /tg/ feel about Blossoming Defense?

>>49425533

I'd say it's too bad a lot of prowess stuff rotated out recently

>>49425807
What synergy would it have had with prowess more than any other pump?

>>49426564

Ehh it protects your prowess creature if you're tryna go all in with pump spells on it

But really it's more just that pump spells are pretty bad outside of a few decks, one of which is prowess aggro

>kaladesh has no returning mechanics
>metal craft and affinity are back without the keyword
>colored artifacts are back

Why does wizard lie so much?

>>49427096

>HERES AN IDEA! LETS PRINT A KEYWORD FOR ONLY ONE OR TWO CARDS?
>BUT WONT THAT CONFUSE NEW PLAYERS????
>WHOOOOO GIVES A SHIT!!!!

Thats why. Even with the reminder text its unnecessary when it isnt a theme for the set/block (tireless tracker and landfall)

>>49427197
That and keywords that don't actually do anything are silly.

Radiance, Metalcraft, Landfall, Delirium and their ilk are all products of people trying to make recurring mechanics fit in with actual keywords like Trample or Flying, and should be done away with.

What do you guys think about eternal scourge and all those red exile card to do X stuff? Exiling it with spark of creativity or chandra and then bringing it right back from exile seems cool.

Any advice for someone starting playing MTG with this set?

Played some Magic Duels, and read the spoilers. About to try and make a deck (What website do you reccomend, I need to be able to read what the cards do)

>>49424891
>It isn't the fact that it's sorcery speed you sperglord shithead. It's the fact that spell queller is effectively a hard counter against it, since if you cast it when queller leave the battlefield, it is cast for 0 making it do nothing.

No shit. If you could not be an autist for 3 seconds you'd also realize I'm mocking the ridiculous amount of flash creatures in Standard versus the many control cards that are now limited to sorcery speed

>>49427687
play magic duels and go to the pre release event with sealed deck on the 30th.

The best way to learn to play magic is with other people, magic duels to get down the basics.

Just read up on the standard sets

Battle for Zendikar, Oath of the Gatewatch, Shadows Over Innistrad, Eldritch Moon and Kaladesh.

Most competetive decks are expensive around the $300 range, and there is those people at FDM willing to spend that much.

Modern is complete garbage because it is the same thing except a lot more cards and decks are considerably more expensive.

>>49427687
Oh and as for deckbuilding go with a creature archtype like humans, vampires, werewolves, wolves etc or a mechanic like madness, delirium, landfall, investigate and build a deck based off that initially.

I made a thing.

4x Tasseled Dromedary
3x Aerial Responder
3x Stone Haven Medic
4x Lone Rider
2x Felidar Soverign

3x Authority of the Consuls
3x Stasis Snare

3x Fragmentize
2x Fumigate
3x Dazzling Reflection
4x Chaplain’s Blessing
3x Blessed Alliance

4x Aether Reservoir

2x Blighted Steppe
17 Plains

Yes, I could add blue and black. But I'm a broke-ass college student - I can't afford man lands, checklands, or even that Nahiri removal (which may get less useful now that Clues trigger artifacts). I'll make do. What do you all think? I'm a little worried about the amount of mana I have.

Also, not gonna lie, I want to see someone use Isolation Field with Panharmonicon.
>get 2 counters per X paid, evening out to 1 mana per counter
>exile 2 creatures per counter
>mfw I can pay six mana to exile 8 creatures
>mfw there's an enchantment in Standard that lets me play enchantments as though they had flash

>>49424719
Ke-tai is that you?

I haven't built many decks but does the idea of a red/green ramp deck jamming 4 red gearhulks sound good? either draw more ramp and fatties to keep slamming or they can risk hitting like an ulamog or metalwork collosus and killing themselves

>>49427409
It's more to show that the mechanics depend on the same thing, like all threshold cards require 7+ cards in the graveyard, or, exalted needing powerful creatures.

>>49422621
>>3-5k
>>Modern

>pick one deck

fixed that for you

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hey guys. im a newish player (10 year break and very novice deckbuilding experience). Got back into Magic a few months ago and opened a ton of Eldrich Moon packs. Already built a Werewolf deck and now am working on a Standard legal Spirit deck and need suggestions. http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/19-09-16-standard-spirits/ Have full playset of EMD commons so would also like Pauper deck ideas as well. Thanks guys.

>>49428382
Panharmonicon only triggers off creatures and artifacts. Quarantine Zone and other exiling enchantments won't trigger it.

>>49430605
Needs more removal, too many janky cards that don't help that much, not enough consistancy.
Cards that you are using to try and win like toppell and queller should be 4 ofs. You'll probably also want avaycn because she is busted.
I'd cut the defender guys, the sheperds, and move the elder deep to the side board.

>>49430605

forget emerges in this deck. Its too much hassle to make work with spirits, even in a casual standard. get some reflector mages as some general goodstuff to pad out slots till you get your deck working proper. What you need are playsets of Mausoleum Wanderer, Rattlechains, Selfless Spirit, and Spell Queller. They are the cornerstone to the spirit package. Run your fun stuff cards on top of these. You dont need tap down effects that much since your deck has alot of natural evasion and field protection. Spell quellers are the most expensive of the lot so run less if you have no wallet, but remember it's high value for a reason.

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Holy shit when will this fucking WR equipment meme fucking die? Is it really gonna take losing to RG stomp, temerge, and bant control for a month straight before they realize its shit?

also

>mfw it turns out chandra isnt even good enough to make red worth, and everyones testing has been cutting her from 4 to 2 to mostly 0

So this is the list I'm currently running

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/izzet-fevered-visions-burn/

And this is the list I'm planning on trading and buying into once Kaladesh hits

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/izzet-fevered-visions-burn-kaladesh-edition/

Thoughts?

>>49431165
>kaladesh edition has no artifact removal

Anon pls

>>49425446
>>49425473
Anon he was talking about how Spell Queller makes radiant flames do nothing, not the weird Despise

>>49431191
Demolish is not playable and the gremlin does not seem playable as well

It might change with testing but I don't think any artifact removal in red is a better option than the cards I run

>>49431165
F-impulse is about to leave standard. You should replace it with galvanic bombardment.
I think Things are a lot stronger then Stromchasers, and should replace them in the main board.
Only 1 mainboard negate feels really wonky. I'd rather see it in the sideboard and then just run more Unsubs.
Consider swapping Incen-flow for Harness Lightening. The instant speed is a big deal, as well as the flexibility.
Due to rotation, you should swap Shiv-reefs for Spirebluff Canal.
Ceremonious Rejection is going to be strong and should be in the side board at least as 2 of. Think of it as artifact removal or eldrazi prevention.
The new Chandra or Saheeli Rai should be somewhere in this deck, at least as 1 ofs. I'm running 2 Shaeeli personally.

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Anyone brewing up some good energy lists? Messing with RG stuff right now and fucking around with Mina and Denn to rebounce Aether Hubs for extra energy and trample.

>>49431697
I dislike Galvanic Bombardment because it can never kill a 3-toughness creature on the first cast. Check the second list I linked, it's the one with the Kaladesh added in - I've replaced Impulse with Spark of Creativity.

I disagree about Things - Thing in the Ice is better if you're running control against a creature list, but my list's primary plan is burn - Stormchasers are better in that regard. I do side in Titis instead of them if I'm up against a creature based deck though.

I agree about the negate but honestly it saved me quite often. I might replace one unsub with a maindeck negate.

I don't think swapping incendiary flow with harnessed lightning is a good move for this deck, because lightning can't hit face and this deck often boils down to hitting face.

I haven't thought about Ceremonious Rejection and I agree it's a good choice.

Both Chandra (burn, ramp) and Saheeli (doubling the prowess / ping triggers) would fit into this deck very well. It's probably going to boil down to whichever of the two I can trade for. Saheeli is definitely the cheaper option, but her -2 is the only really relevant ability for my deck, while all of Chandra's are simply busted.

>>49431728
>larger than lire
No.

>>49431831
It was mostly a filler to just see how I liked it in some hands. I'm also running Evolving wilds which need to be taken out since I'm not running Architect or Marvel too.

>>49431802
Consider Revolutionary Rebuff

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Will they ever print a blue creature as powerful and as useful as Flying Men was? Everyone wanted Flying Men back in the day, they were the cheapest flyers around and unlike the imposter, Ornithopter, they packed a bite! They had 1 power which was all you need sometimes

You will note, that the flavor text works WITH the card mechanics to make it seem all that more impressive. When Saffiyah clapped her hands and summoned up 20 Flying Men, you instantly realize that this sums to 20 damage in the air that cannot be blocked by ground creatures and would result in an immediate loss if all of them attacked at once. Powerful indeed!

>>49431999
le storm crow maymay

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>>49432016
Do you realize how much worse Storm Crow is because of its 1U cost? Though I admit, it is a decent blue flyer.

>>49382173
>standard is shit
you misspelled "all of mtg" friend
dead game is dead

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>>49431999
*pays with RRR*
Take that Saffiyah!

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>>49432098
Its sad that this is the best we have in Standard in the way of dealing damage to all creatures at once. Its not even a Pyroclasm-wannabe, its some shitty multicolor-promoting version.

I want Anger of the Gods back. This was what a real sweeper looked like. This would roast any kind of small creatures, cat tokens, whatever you were up against

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>>49432136
But look anon

It's a red sweeper at instant

Surely this is better than whatever came before

>>49432136

Anger of the gods was unfun to play against, especially for White decks. It felt downright unfair, like i had to hold back my plays just in case they had it in hand. It was stupid.

>>49432175
>but mooooom, how can I play Creatures: the Tappening if Billy keeps destroying my weenies!!
Suicide

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Heres my WU artifact aggro shitbrew:
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/wu-artifact-aggro-2/

Criticism appreciated.

I'm thinking of getting back into competitive standard magic.

Is control still dead?

Any valid archetypes that aren't white weenie/red burn/supervalue-midrange-creatures.dec?

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>>49432423
Decks that are not White Weenie, Red Burn, and Value Creatures:

Gitrog Goggles (Combo)
BW Control (Control)
Bant Humans (an unusual deck without any singular strong creatures, relies on a powerful instant called Collected Company to generate tempo and board advantage)
There's even an unusual blue control deck called Retreat to Coralheim, these are decks that might be fun for you to try.

>>49432542
My post was a bit snarky so thanks for replying anyway ! I'll give those a look, seems more interesting than I thought.

>>49432561
Beware, CoCo >>49432542 is rotating out of Standard at the end of this month, September 30th. If you invest in a playset now, it will be dead in a few weeks. Be careful.

http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=13540&f=ST

LOL

>>49432978
Quel fucking surprise

Meme company is even fucking worse than meme rhino

>>49433462
The main problem that's persisted through these last 2 years of standard is creatures with T>P. It creates clogged boardstates that favour not attacking until your opponent has attacked, which when applied to both players, means no one attacks.

Any NYC Manhattan anons ITT? I was looking to play FNM this week near my office in Chelsea. Is the Compleat Strategist an alright shop? Do you locals play elsewhere?

Trying some Kaladesh in a draft simulator and the format seems pretty complicated. What's really difficult is to draft good artifacts with "artifacts matter" cards, because good artifacts just don't go around and almost every fabricate creature is way below curve. Things that seem like bombs right now, like Chief of the Foundry, might turn out to be mostly traps. But then again, complicated formats like this are impossible to judge just from first impressions against bots.

>>49432175
This is either bait, or you need to read up on overextending

>>49433921
>Play weenies
>Lose because you played weenies
>Don't play weenies
>Lose because you didn't play weenies

>>49433952
>play a linear deck that folds to interaction
>be surprised when it loses to interaction specifically designed to deal with the deck

wew

>>49431153
>mfw it turns out chandra isnt even good enough to make red worth, and everyones testing has been cutting her from 4 to 2 to mostly 0

It's pretty true tbqh mi famiglia

The new Nissa is really underrated by the way, I've been playing around with different permutations of B/W control and Abzan looks very strong

>>49433952
>play 2-3 weenies
>force them to sweep
>play 2-3 more weenies you drew in those turns and didn't need to play
>force them to sweep again
>play 1-2 more threats
>they're out of sweepers, you win

Was that so hard?

>>49434062
You're right, we should all play Company so we can dodge sorcery speed spells like that.

>>49434106
>Take your time killing your opponent
>They start dropping Aetherlings and Revving for 15

>>49434103
Is there a viable control deck that isn't "muh $50 walkers lmao" with 4 lily, 4 gideon and 6+ nissa?

I have always defaulted to abzan decks ever since I felt the joy of killing people with trees, but if it's going to be a $500 meme walkers deck then fuck it.

>People still haven't realised that Midnight Oil is an insane card

>>49434119
I will concede that deck was an abberation. It was stifling because it had infinite answers. But there surely can be a balance between "I have all the answers ever and you will never get to attack" and "no sweepers fox only final destination"

Find a fucking middle ground WotC.

>>49434135
Insanely bad you mean
>get to draw an extra card for 3 turns then nothing
>Max hand size of zero
>lose 2 life if you ever have to discard

only good with harmless offering.

>>49434166
>Drawing 2 cards per turn at a point in the game where you can cast 2 per turn
>Half the time you're going to draw a land and a nonland anyway
In the land of dumb midrange decks, Midnight Oil is just Phyrexian Arena.

>>49434183
For three turns. Then unless you can get another hour counter on it you can't draw any more cards because you have to peel two counters off.

>>49434200
Actually, that's wrong. If you look at how the ability is worded, removing the counters isn't a requirement for the extra card draw to occur.

>>49434211
It says "draw a card and remove two counters." If you can't resolve it because there aren't enough counters, then the trigger disappears.

>>49434231
You just plain don't know the rules of the game. Spells and abilities do all they can on resolution so long as they still have at least one legal target. Targets aren't a problem here, so the ability just does everything it can. If there's 1 counter on Midnight Oil, the trigger will try to remove 2 but only have 1 to remove. Nothing will stop the draw.

I bet you say that spells "fizzle" too.

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>>49434231

Looking to play some RG Energy.

//Creatures
4 Longtusk Cub
3 Sumggler's Copter
4 Voltaic Brawler
4 Lathnu Hellion
3 Tireless Tracker
2 Bristling Hydra
1 Verdurous Gearhulk

//Spells
4 Attune with Aether
2 Blossoming Defense
4 Harnessed Lightning
3 Incediary Flow
2 Nature's Way

//Planewalkers
2 Arlinn Kord

//Land
4 Aether Hub
2 Cinder Glade
8 Forest
4 Game Trail
4 Mountain

Now I can see myself cutting Nature's Way, Arlinn Kord, and the Copters. They have all been playing great so far but I feel like I should add in 3 or 4 more creatures, preferably one drops.

>>49434231
So when I cast Read the Bones at 1 life I draw two then don't lose the life?

>>49421647
Wait, are you saying cards being affordable is a bad thing?

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>1G at common
>Get a vanilla 2/2

>1G at rare
>Get a 2/3 vigilance that later is a 4/5

What was wizards excuse for this? That's not complexity, that is just flat out superior and way above curve. They couldn't even be bothered to give it's default state a downside or the boost an actual restriction like "6 or more FORESTS. Nope, just lands.

mtg is going the way if ygo I see

>>49434280
It's a fine card but I'd hesitate to play it as fevered visions are a popular deck in our FLGS

>>49434306
2/2 for 2 with no abilities is on common

Rares operate at a higher power level and efficiency

>>49434306
Sylvan Advocate is, from a design standpoint, the worst card ever printed.
It is a absolutely abbhorant and I hate it with every fiber of my being.

>>49434340
>Rares operate at a higher power level and efficiency
Which is why Magic's popularity has dropped in recent years. Ever since Wizards killed aggro decks that could be made from commons and uncommons, the game has gone downhill. Just look at the aggressive cards in Kaladesh. You've got the 3/2 with artifact dwarf at rare, the hellion at rare, the courier at rare. Rare rare rare. Hope you like cracking packs!

>>49434306
You forgot
>three of the best creature types
And
>buffs land creatures

>>49434368
That's true, but there are numerous decks that operate thanks to commons, uncommons and bulk rares. Consider UR visions (the stormchaser variant) and RW allies - the driving force behind both of these decks are commons and uncommons.

Decks depending solely on rares is not a new thing in Magic - especially high end control and planeswalker-based decks, but there are, even now, budget alternatives that perform well.

>>49434368

>Which is why Magic's popularity has dropped in recent years

It hasn't though.

>>49434306
>Not difficult to cast
>Above curve
>Higher toughness than power so they bounce off each other, creating clogged boards
>Vigilance in green for the first time since fucking Vorapede
>Grows as the game goes on but they still bounce off each other
>And because fuck it why not, it's a lord too
>That gives a bigger bonus to creatures than lords normally do
>Has 2 relevant tribes in elves and allies
>At rare

>>49434398
They're all shit and get stomped on a regular basis by Company, the $500 king of the format.

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Can Robodoggo work in the current format, with Bomat Courier and Vehicles?

>>49434426
Company shits on all decks in standard, Wizards admitted that it was a mistake to print the card as it was. UR visions has a good matchup against both WB control and Temur Emerge. Can't speak for RW allies because I don't play it but it also plays well against many meta decks.

Don't judge budget decks based on their performance against the single most dominating deck in a standard more broken than most

>>49434426
well thank god Company is rotating out of standard literally next week.

Anyone who's cracking packs of kaladesh is either an idiot, or playing the Masterpiece Lottery full stop. The most expensive card is Chandra at 50 and she's set to tumble to 15 in three weeks since red still won't be the focus of a viable deck.

Standard is going to be much much cheaper this season. I'd be shocked if there's more than 2 tier1 decks worth over $200.

>>49434426
That's implying Kaladesh will have a meaningful impact on standard

>>49434542
It probably will since two of the sets with the highest power level cards in standard are rotating out

>>49434542
Seriously? Company is rotating out and you don't think things will change?

>>49434499
>not cracking packs like a psycho for a hangarback walker

>>49434128
>Is there a viable control deck that isn't "muh $50 walkers lmao" with 4 lily, 4 gideon and 6+ nissa?

There totally is, but it still ends up being somewhat expensive. If you're trying to run budget, no dice.

I've been on Cockatrice running what is essentially an Abzan Hatebears deck.


3x Thalia, Heretic Cathar
2x Kambal, Consul of Allocation
3x Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
2x Noxious Gearhulk

Along with 4 Grasp of Darkness, 2 Ruinous Path, 2 Anguished Unmaking, 2 Fumigate, 3 Transgress the Mind, 2 Harsh Scrutiny. I make control decks cry with Kambal/Thalia, and aggro just folds so hard to Kalitas it's not even funny.

I don't run any Lilianas, but I do run a number of Gideon / Nissa / Sorin. Deck ends up at like $200 rather than $400.

I try to keep things somewhat cheap (for me) and I also do my best to incorporate cards that are strong in other formats. For example, Thalia and Kambal have strong Legacy potential, Kalitas is great in Modern, and Gideon Ally has some Legacy and Vintage potential.

For the record, I also despise the supermemefriends decks. Extremely lazy deck building.

is green gearhulk a bad preorder purchase at 10?

>>49434883
Obviously? The card is patently unplayable and won't be worth anything in a month

So do I need to crew before combat?

>>49434996
Yes anon

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>>49434912
>patently unplayable

holy shit. /tg/ is really bad at magic

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Rate, hate, suggest to me a sideboard.
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/colourless-red/

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>>49432098
Incendiary flow is where it's at

>>49432274
Scrapheap Scrounger should be a 4-of
Maybe even run Bomat couriers, the 1/1 haste

>tfw played Jeskai Nahiri control in EMN standard
>shitty deck that can do fun powerful things
>all the new cards that slot right into the weaker parts of the deck

I am pleased.

>>49435545
I wrote the deck off before they spoiled the weaker mana leak, care to post a list? I think it could be really good now

>>49434883
Never preorder anything