MTG Legacy Thread - No Lands Scoop Edition

Common Legacy - Decks You Should Prepare to Face
>Miracles
>Delver variants (Grixis, Izzet, BUG, RUG)
>ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)
>Death and Taxes
>Eldrazi Stompy
>Shardless BUG
>Lands

Uncommon Legacy - Decks You Should Know About
>LED Dredge
>Reanimator
>Infect
>Stoneblade
>Burn
>TES (The Epic Storm)
>Elves
>Painter
>Maverick
>4-Color Loam
>Nic Fit
>Sneak n Show

Rare Legacy - Decks You May See On Occasion
>Enchantress
>MUD
>Goblins
>Merfolk
>High Tide
>Aluren
>Food Chain
>12 Post
>Belcher
>Pox Control
>Dragon Stompy
>Tezzerator
>Sneak n Breach
>Stax (White or Black)

Mythic Legacy - Decks You'll See Once a Year
>Doomsday Fetchland Tendrils (DDFT)
>Cheerios
>Nourshing Lich
>Sea Stompy
>Spanish Inquisition
>Shitty Wannabe Defunct Sneak n Show Monoblue Omnitell
>Parfait
>The Cure (Kavu Predator + False Cure)

>>49370711
>paper $278
One of my lands costs more than that...

>>49370733
Well, don't you feel like a chump for playing Underground Seas?

>>49370711
>playing
Esper miracles
>testing?
Lim dul's vault
>BDIF
There isn't
>FDIF
Miracles of all flavours
>your opponent goes T1 island, Ponder, pass. Do you rush aggro out the gate or do play around his counters?
Fetch, Crack for island, top, pass

>>49370749
I have 4 (because I'm a fucking Moron, but that will be a story for another day) and I'm thinking of dropping from 2 main deck to 1 in favour of basic swamp

>>49370765
Is there even a deck that plays 4 copies?

>>49370775
No but when I first got into legacy I was a fucking Moron.

"Everydeck plays as many dual lands as it can ahahahah"
"Oh there goes all of my mtg Rares ahahahahah"
"Wait I only need 2... Oh shit that's right nonbasic land hate is relevant"

And it's been 4 years and I haven't had a decent trade offer on them yet

>>49370798
I'm going to magically come into a substantial chunk of money at the end of the year, and when that happens I think I might buy a playset of each fetch/shock/dual
although I may go to playsets of fetches, and 3 of each shock/dual, because you never need 4

>>49370819
Yeah... I suppose now is a good time to say I also traded for 4 scrublands because I thought I would need them as well...

>>49371013
what a scrub

>>49371013
>Scrublands
>In any deck ever other than Deadguy

>>49371013
>>49371050
They ended up being not as bad becuase of EDH decks and it's not like I payed for them I traded a way a fuck ton of standard cards and bulk rares for pretty much my entire miracles deck and the massive fuck up of extra duel lands

>>49371075
At least you have the consolation of trading for extra duals, it's not like you traded for 4 copies of Eye Of Ugin during Eldrazi Winter

>>49370733
>tfw some dude at my lgs casually plays an underground sea
>ask him how much he payed for it
>"oh about 20$, bought it way back then"

Life isn't fair. but that dredge list looks interesting, I might put it together as my first legacy deck.

>>49371161
It's my first (complete) legacy deck.
I had most of Goblins back in 2014, but had to get rid of it.

>>49371091
I pretty much keep my distance from anything modern related because of bans and how awful the format is. I sold all my eldrazi stuff during then because daddy wanted to make an EDH deck

Time to post lists? Time to post lists.

2x underground sea
3x tundra
4x flooded strand
4x polluted delta
2x marsh flats
2x Plains
4x island

4x sensei's divining top
2x JTMS
1x EtA
1x Council's judgment
2x monastery mentor
1x Counterspell
1x lim dul's vault
3x snapcaster mage
4x counterbalance
4x brainstorm
4x ponder
4x terminus
4x FoW
4x Swords to plowshares

SIDEBOARD
1x eitherswron canonist
2x thoughtseize
1x nihil spell bomb
1x leyline of sanctity
3x surgical extraction
1x entreat the angels
1x flusterstorm
1x disenchant
1x Rest in peace
1x back to basics
1x notion thief
1x ? (Suggestions welcomed

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>>49371414
This is where I'm at atm. (sideboard not pictured, but it's the one in the OP

>>49370775
Reanimator does, as do some Shardless builds

>>49371050
I play Scrubland in Esper and Junk Humans. In Vintage and Legacy! At least it isn't as bad as Bad Land.

>>49371798
Yeah, but only scrubs play BW
At least Punishing Jund is good at fair matchups even with its bad lands

>>49371414
What's up with that sideboard? 5 graveyard hate spells and a random Leyline?

>>49371818
I love being a scrub. I run Scrub lands and a couple Atlanta's usually.

>>49371414
Have you ever tried a couple Bobs as an anti-combo/mirror slot?

>>49371844
Bob seems kinda bad in a deck with 4x FoW and 4x Terminus, although I guess Top would solve that.

>>49371874
Top and Jace do pretty well, and you board out some number of terminus usually. If you flip a Force to Bob, how do you lose? You have a Bob in play and a Force in hands

DOOMSDAY PUZZLE TIME! Keep me entertained at work edition

Here's the list all of these will use: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/13-03-16-ddft/
Assume preboard unless otherwise mentioned. I'Il try to give all relevant info about games states involved in the puzzle. If I don't mention opp's life total, assume 20. If I don't mention something else, assume it's irrelevant.

First puzzle coming in my next post.

>>49371956
Puzzle number 1: you're at 2 life, dead on board vs a delver opponent with an untapped Volc. They have 2 cards in hand and you know 1 is daze. You have a basic swamp, an underground sea, and a divining top on your field. Your hand is: Ritual x2, doomsday, LED, duress. What's the best line? This one is easy to get started, but sequencing is important.

>>49372015
well, nothing in the list saves from bolt (no counters or angel's grace or whatever) so I operate under a premise they don't have one
Therefore
1. LED, if Dazed, tap Swamp for ritual. if Ritual is spell pierced, tap seas for Ritual #2
2. Assuming it's not, Ritual. if Dazed, seas for 2nd.If that's Pierced, gg.
3. Assuming it's not, Duress. if Dazed, pay.
4. Discard relevant card - daze or 1 mana counter. If FoW in hand, still discard their daze.
5. Ritual #2. 4 black mana. seas, LED on field.
6. 3 Black for Doomsday. From bottom to top:
Lab Maniac
Gith Probe
LED
Brainstorm
Ideas Unbound
7. 1 Black mana, U from seas, LED. Tap STD for draw, crack LED for UUU in response, have
UUUUB and Ideas in hand.
8. Cast ideas. Draw Top, brainstorm and LED. Cast LED. and Top, have UUUU in pool.
9 Top draw, sac Led In resp, 6 blue in pool.

>>49370711
>he just recycled the question I used from the last thread
Inferior Dredge strikes again!

>>49372396
Honestly, I forgot there was a question in the OP and just copy/pasted the whole thing

>>49372396
>>49372405
is there a beef between you two?

>>49372415
No, I'm just teasing him.

>>49372415
Just some cheeky banter.

>>49372431
>>49372442
Well I hoped for some cool story, ending with more lighthearted fun

>>49372369
I'm failing to see how your pile wins. Your sequencing up to the casting of Doomsday was correct though. But the best pile to use is, top to bottom: Ideas Unbound, Led, Led, Burning Wish, Random Card. This doesn't require any extra mana (like an untapped sea), and kills with plenty of storm even if they never cast a counterspell.

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>>49371414
I don't think I've posted my list here before, but here it is.

>>49372564
I foucsed on the maniac win, and coudn't get enough draw to make it without milling. (also post closed on me twice already, so I posted before figuring it all out) I think it might be impossible here. Storm is a way better choice here.

>>49372611
Yeah I don't see a maniac pile that doesn't involve at paying life for a probe so I think it''s impossible.

>>49370711
>flayer of the hatebound , balustrade spy and FKZ
>not the more janky and impressive Angel of Glory's Rise/Azumi/Labratory Maniac wincon
C'mon bro step up your manaless dredge.
>>49370719
>no manaless dredge
C'mon bro.

ENOUGH BANTER
POST SIDEBOARD TECH THAT YOU RUN MAINBOARD LIKE AN ASSHOLE

>>49372823
Main deck abrupt decay for those sick miracle killer piles

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>>49372823
FORGOT PIC

>>49372832
son, you some kind of Infect Hater?

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>>49372832

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I'd love to run picrel in Legacy, is it viable? Nabbing a Brainstorm with it must feel great, and at worst it cycles when you cast an instant.

>>49373000
>paying mana for your counterspells
pleb
4x FoW, 4x Daze, 4x counterbalance or bust

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>>49372846
GUESS WHAT ELSE I RUN MAINBOARD

>>49372823
>Tezzerator
Almost my entire deck is niche silver bullets and sb cards, I've got ;
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Trinisphere
3 Ensnaring Bridge

>>49372823
Not really sideboard tech, but also relevant to the OP. Im trying out Azami and lab maniac as an alt win con for my manaless dredge deck

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>>49370711
>Playing?
Death and Taxes
>Testing?
B/W Pox ideas
>BDIF/Favorite deck in format?
Favorite deck: Manaless Dredge (first legacy deck I ever built, kinda miss the little bugger).
>Your opponent goes T1 Island, Ponder, pass. Do you rush aggro out the gate or do you play around his counters?
I Aether Vial and proceed to do what I do best! ... Be mildly annoying the whole game.

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>>49372823

>>49373256
chuckled

>>49373124
Oh, also been testing out Chains of Mephistopheles

>>49373101
that's not as bad desu. vines, invigorate, become immense, and inkmoth kind of blank it. wtf are you even running?

>>49372600
>Whited Glistener Elf for maximum tilt
I like you.

>>49372694
>http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/legacy-type-1-5/budget-legacy/526479-primer-oops-all-spells
And I didn't change either of the first 2 posts at all, because I'm a shit.

>>49372600

Just bought essentially this exact list, arrives later today

>>49374247
>http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/legacy-type-1-5/budget-legacy/526479-primer-oops-all-spells
I'm just saying in my experience it's more resilient to have angel/azumi/lab maniacas a wincon in manaless dredge, and it's also got style points.

>>49371821
>>49371844
Well I don't often play SE as graveyard hate as much as I do to rid my self of cards that are good against me. It's helpful, very. The other cards double up and help me in several matchups not just dredge dredge. As for dark confidant? I honestly can't see him being good, my play style with miracles is hard and fast. Often leaving myself tapped out for the sake of casting an extra spell and Bob will definitely not help me there. Then there's inevitably a time where I'll straight up die to FoW or terminus off the top when I can't do anything. It's also limiting my top capabilities because now I'm playing around my own Bob. It could be okay and I might be overreacting but I'm just not seeing it. So far I'm thinking the Kamal from Kaladesh could be pretty spicy.

TIME FOR ANOTHER DOOMSDAY PUZZLE!
The doomsday list is here >>49371956
The scenario: you mull to 5 on the draw and keep ritual, doomsday, delta, lotus petal, probe. Your opponent keeps 7 and goes turn 1 plains, aether vial, pass. You draw for your first turn and it's Ideas Unbound. Might as well not let them untap. Kill them turn 1. But how?

>>49374917
Do you have tendrils main board?

>>49374917
Jesus christ I'm bad at Doomsday. I've figured out one that wins us the game on our next draw step, but against DnT it's really risky, because if they have StP we lose

>>49374917
>>49374917
>Fetch out a black source
>Petal (1)
>Tap land for Ritual (2)
>Doomsday (3)
From the top--
Petal
LED
LED
Probe
Burning Wish
>Cast 2nd Petal (4)
>crack petals for UU
>Ideas Unbound (5)
>LED, LED (7)
>Probe (8), crack both LEDs (BBBRRR)
>Burning Wish (9) for Tendrils
>Tendrils for lethal

>>49374917
>>49375149
If you do play delta Crack for blue, Lotus petal, use petal for rit, doomsday for rit, rit, probe, petal, tendrils. Play ideas, drawing rit, rit, probe. Cast Gitaxian probe, drawing petal, cast another probe, drawing tendrils, cast petals and then rots and there is storm 11

>>49375149
No tendrils main. I linked my puzzle post to the post that I linked to my list in so you can see the list.

>>49374917
Can't you just stack petal, LED, LED, Probe, Burning Wish? This one doesn't seem like much of a puzzle. Or I'm missing something obvious.

>>49375373
I forgot LED was a card in the deck, that would've made my life a lot easier

>>49375373
This is basically it except there's only 1 petal in the 75 so you have to cracking it before you cast doomsday so you can put it back in the pile.

>>49375402
LED is a pretty good card.

>>49375383
Ah I didn't even look at the list despite the entire time wishing I had the list to look at. I'll do better next time senpai

>>49375412
Oops, should've paid more attention to the list.
Close enough, what do I win?

>>49375392
Yeah it's not terribly difficult as long as you crack the petal pre doomsday so you have it to put in the pile. I'll come up with some hard ones if that's what you want.

>>49375449
I actually played that deck for about a month before deciding that I hated it. I think I killed myself 6 times out of maybe 30 games.

>>49375449
I don't know if I'd be able to manage hard ones, but I'll give them a go.

I vote for some Lich puzzles, because not everyone plays Doomsday and most everyone here wants or is interested in playing Lich.

>>49375520
But lich isnt that puzzling. You just draw a jillion cards and double grapeshot them.

One more doomsday puzzle. You're at 14 life vs miracles. They have a meddling mage naming burning wish. You duress them and see 2 swords to plowshares and a counterspell. They have 2 untapped tundras. You have an island, a swamp and a top. Your hand is ritual, doomsday, probe, led. What would you do to have the best shot at winning?

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>>49375735
Play Ornithopter.

>>49374917
didnt read the answrs to see if I'm little anon that could, so here goes:
Delta into swamp
Dark Ritual 3b
Petal on bf
Doomsday for led led gith probe burning wish
Gith Probe to draw Petal
Cast petal sac petals for uu
Ideas Unboumd to draw Led Led gith Probe
Storm 6, cast 2 leds for storm 8, sac for rrrbbb
wish tendrils from sideboard storm 9
gg wp

>>49376013
I think you have the right idea.

>>49376013

Duress Counterspell
Swamp Ritual for BBB
Cast LED
Doomsday for Ideas Unbound, Cabal Therapy, Lab Maniac, LED, Brainstorm
Githaxian Probe to draw Ideas Unbound, in response crack LED for UUU
Cast Ideas Unbound, sit at UBBB, draw Therapy, Brainstorm, LED
Cast Therapy, naming StP
Cast LED,
Cast Lab Maniac, 0 mana in pool, sac LED for UUU
tap SdT, draw Brainstorm
cast Brainstorm, laugh

>>49376142
meant >>49375735

>>49375735
I almost got this one. I got hung up when I decided cracking LED in response to Doomsday was the right move.

>>49373188
>Lab maniac in dredge
Spicy
>>49373256
quite funny, would laugh again/10
>>49373450
It's to make miracles and delver folks tilt
I run a burn list where I found a lot of burn cards that are especially good vs certain decks, and I figured that I could have a strictly better sideboard if I just put some of these situational burn spells main board. This gives me the room for 4x Smash to Smithereens sideboard against those annoying Chalice decks.

>>49376402
interested in list

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>>49372823

>name "Human"
>laugh as half of the decks in Legacy collapse

>>49376713
Then BAM! 5 angels out of nowhere

>>49376749

fuck u miracles you little shit I'll Krosan Grip your Top I swear to god

>>49376713
Oh no, not all my Human creature tokens. :^)

>>49376939

what would you do if they named Illusion instead?

>>49377344
get bridge tokens
Zombie seems like a better call for me

>>49377410

Zombies are 2/2 so I imagine it wouldn't do that much.

>>49376713
AY YO HOL UP
*looks at your hand*
U SAYIN
*casts dark ritual*
U SAYIN DUDES ACTUALLY
*casts dark ritual*
U SAYIN HOME BOYS BE LIKE
*casts Lion's Eye Diamon*
ACTUALLY BE RUNNIN
*casts Infernal Tutor*
SOME FINNA
*holds priority and smack lips*

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>>49376606
The list is subject to change all the time. Right now I'm testing the new Chandra as a 2-of. Before that I ran Browbeat. The sideboard feels all right, but enchantments are really tough to beat sometimes.

>>49372823
I run 2 Winter Orb and 1 Sylvan Library main board in RUG Delver.

fuck miracles

>>49377434
making them 1/1 makes Zealot kill way worse, not sure about flayer kill

>>49377459
>cast Chandra, Jace of the Finance
>next turn cast Fireblast
>pay for it
living the dream

So I love legacy to death, and my MUD deck.

After seeing the Kaladesh spoilers i'm super hyped for some of the cards and want to know what you guys think.

Toolcraft Exemplar, Inventor's Apprentice, Scrapheap Scrounger and Bomat Courier are all super spicy for a potential 'artifact zoo' style deck.

I'm imaging something like:
4x Ancient Tomb
4x City of Traitors
4x Glimmervoid
4x Plateu/Inspiration Village
1 - 2x Utility Lands, Maybe Inventor's Fair

4x Lion's Eye Diamond
4x Mox Opal

4x Bomat Courier
4x Toolcraft Exemplar
4x Inventor's Apprentice
4x Enlightened Tutor

4x Lupine Prototype
4x Scrapheap Scrounger
A number of Jitte and maybe swords, might be too high CMC.
Some silver bullets to get with tutor.

4x Ghirapur Orrey

SB looks something like:
4x Aethersworn Cannonist
4x Pithing Needle
4x Retribution of the Meek
4x Rest in Peace
other stuff etc.

Some sick synergies is the LED's to dump hand for Prototype, pay for Bomat Courier then have mana to cast what you get back, activate Scrapheap Scroungers you just discarded, pay for an Orrey you exiled with a Courier (put there by a tutor) and turn on metalcraft for the Opals/increase density of cheap artifacts.

Just an idea for a new approach to aggro that has some surprising nut draws. Also hopefully combat some of the usual death of aggro (*cough cough, Terimnus*) with speed and the potential of landing an Orrey on T2 after dumping the hand.

Maybe i'm barking up the wrong tree and this is trash but i'm trying to make it work with the new cards i'm in love with.

>>49376142
Where does the BBB come from after you cast Ideas Unbound?

>>49377634
Guess I killed the thread. Sorry.

>>49379575
Its Friday man. People got shit to do. Especially when it comes to legacy general peeps.

>>49377634
By "Artifact Zoo" do you mean affinity? Cause that's an option, I just recommend more disruption

If you want to run Orrey, I'd recommend 4 Chalice, 4 Metalworker, 4 Trinisphere, 3 Crucible of Works, 4 wasteland and 2 ghost quarters. Maybe Smokestack as well. As a symmetrical 4 drop, orrey isn't great, but if you can break symmetry it can be insane.

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>>49372823
>POST SIDEBOARD TECH THAT YOU RUN MAINBOARD LIKE AN ASSHOLE
lol

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Anyone have any idea's for Wx Cavern Humans? I'm fucking around with Junk/Esper/GW. Has anyone played this card in the last decade? Im thinking of it as board tech against Sneak and Show, Delver and Eldrazi. It seems better for Vintage, but I still kind of want to try it out.

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>playing omnitell on Xmage against some absurdly shitty brew
>runs all cascade effects, cards like rootbound craig, maelstrom wanderer, bloom tender, BBE
>he takes game 1 because I draw absolutely nothing, no cantrips, no show and tell, just a force and omniscience
>game 2 win at 1 life
>game 3, I drop city of traitors at 3 life, while having trop island, island, and tundra up
>excited because I can drop this emmy that's been sitting in my hand and win
>sudden panic hits as i realize I only have one red source
>drop ponder, hoping for that 1 in a million lotus petal draw
>it's the third card
>mfw

>>49380214
Don't talk shit about Waterfalls

>>49380234
It was fucking hilarious, every time he cascaded he got a mana dork
One time he actually got removal but he was running Journey to Nowhere and I just forced it

>>49380281
I've seen people run that deck in Vintage, fully powered. Cascading into Time Walk is great, but Moxen are terrible cascades. I don't think its good to run ramp in those decks.

>>49380214
I played against a shitty BW Allies brew on MTGO last night and I was terrified the whole time. The deck was so strange and bad that I thought there must be more to it and I kept thinking I'd get combo'd out and played around Mana Tithe the entire match just in case.

>>49380234

That's not waterfalls. Waterfalls is just shardless with Punishing Fire and BBE thrown in.

> cascaded he got a mana dork
Yeah that always happens with me and DRS. Every single fucking time.

>>49380560
Honestly, shit brews are more terrifying than meta decks because you have no idea what's coming

>>49380001
Why no Isochron Scepter or CoW?

>>49380773
Scepter just gets Decay'ed

CoW doesn't ring any bells

>>49380830
Crucible of Worlds

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>>49380873
the whole point is to have less lands so you can keep Taxing.

>>49380873
Nonbo with RIP
Doesn't provide any utility without nonbasics (I've actually cut eh Plateaus since I took that picture and now I just run 16 plains/2 mountains)
Deck doesn't need the CA

Crucible is workable in mono-white variants with Wasteland and stuff, though.

Well fellas, today is the day I learned miracles can't beat nic fit and modern DnT at the same time, well if I wasn't a fucking Moron I might've but probably not.

>>49380214
>Shitty brew
>pretty much wrecks your shit

>>49381615
I hate the term "Shitbrew". In Legacy its quite possible to build a really great off the walls brew, and being an asshole towards people who would rather play their own 75 then a stock one is kind of the antithesis of what Eternal formats are to me.

I netdeck a lot, but I certainly have more fun running a 75 that I built from scratch.

>>49380001
>>49380830

Hey Parfait guy, I'm building a Blue Parfait build, albeit in a bit more budget fashion because fuck me I can't afford Mox Diamonds. What do you think of Crystal Vein as a way to power out enchantments early but also keep your land count low?

>>49381758
I genreally agree with you and don't want to stifle anyone''s creativity. But in the case of the BW allies deck I played against, I think it was a standard deck that the person jammed StP's into. I think that qualifies as a shitbrew.

>>49381834
I would call that a bad tribal deck in need of significant refinement, but those kind of decks can do well in the right meta. Slivers top 8'd a SCG Open, and Allies are just a worse sliver so who knows.

>>49382016
>Slivers top 8'd a SCG Open

Shut the front door WHAAAAAAAT

>>49381768
When I first started playing Parfait I used a mono-white list that ran 3 Crystal Vein. It's a solid card and can lead to some really explosive plays but it's not really a replacement for Diamond.

I'm interested to see your list, if you don't mind.

>>49382039
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=8383&d=248176&f=LE

Its not even the weirdest build of Sliver's I've seen.

http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=12274&d=270730&f=LE

That is the strangest build, top 8'd a Classic. Look at the Brainstorm count.

>>49382077

Sure thing. This is what my notes are, what I've worked up so far:

Parfait (Legacy)
Deck (40 of 40):
Draw Engine (8)
Land Tax x 4 (need 4)
Scroll Rack x 4 (need 4)

Silver Bullets (8):
Aggro: Web of Inertia x 1
Aggro: Island Sanctuary x 1
Aggro: Ghostly Prison x 1
Graveyard: Rest in Peace x 1
Damage: Ivory Tower x 1
Spell: Rule of Law x 1
Removal: Oblivion Ring x 1
Nonbasic Land: Back to Basics x 1

Tutor/Utility (6)
Enlightened Tutor x 4
Argivian Find x 2

Mana Artifacts (4)
Mox Diamond x 4, need 4, substitute Fieldmist Borderpost x 4

Board Control (11):
Orim’s Chant x 4 (need 4) substitute Abeyance x 4
Wrath of God x 3
Swords to Plowshares x 4

Win Conditions (3):
Stuffy Doll x 1
Guilty Conscience x 1
Luminarch Ascension x 1

Lands (20)
Snow-Covered Plains x 15
Snow-Covered Island x 1
Crystal Vein x 4

Sideboard (15 of 15):
Mountains: Conversion x 1
Swamps: Karma x 1
Aggro: Kismet x 1
Aggro: Pendrell Mists x 1
Protection: Faith’s Shield x 1
Affinity/Enchantress: Aura of Silence x 1
Affinity: Stony Silence x 1
Combo: Nevermore x 1
Combo: Trinisphere x 1
Creature Kill: Slow Motion x 1
Creature Steal: Binding Grasp x 1
Spells: Dovescape x 1
Grave: Tormod’s Crypt x 1
Alt Wincon: Thopter Spy Network x 1
Alt Wincon: Geist of Saint Traft x 1

>>49382766
You've done pretty well with your budget choices. Only things you're missing is some way to protect your face, either Leyline of Sanctity or Solitary Confinement. I would also look into the RIP/Energy Field combo because you're in Blue.

I'd rather have Trinisphere in the main over Rule of Law. They hit a lot of the same combo decks but 3 Sphere slows down decks like delver and forces people to play out lands so you can keep taxing.

Miracles is a tough matchup for us so I would try to pack more stuff like Seal of Cleansing, Silence, Pithing Needle, and Unexpectedly Absent in the sideboard. Needle and Absent are even worth spots in the main.

As you build up the deck I would get Humility and Helm before the Diamonds. Humility is your number one card against every creature deck and the 2 Helm 2 RIP package helps close out games before your opponent draws out of the prison.

In the mean time you should consider a Cursed Totem somewhere to cover that side of Humility's effect. Suppression Field might be worth testing too.

>>49383290

I hear ya. Thanks for the pointers! I wanted to test out the budget build a bit, but XMage is missing a lot of the more budget substitutions I'd be using...

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I finally caught 'em all.

>>49383670
What was the final piece?

>>49383768
Emerald

>>49383670
jelly

>>49370719
I don't see my deck on the list here. Bant Thopter Blade

>>49370711
>Playing:
Bant Thopter Blade
Manaless Dredge (same mainboard as OP, different sideboard)
Burn

>Testing
None

>BDIF
No clue

>FDIF:
Storm probably

>>49372823
>Engineered Explosives
>Detention Sphere
>Ensnaring Bridge

Plus an enlightened tutor, Bant Thopterblade if the best

>>49383670
It makes me happy knowing that I have enough modern/legacy staples to buy half the power 9 but I haven't seen a single piece of power for 2 years and I'm way too paranoid to trade online for them

>>49377440
I chuckled

>>49383999
I got 2 of the Moxen locally, evverything else was at GP's

there is also vintagemagic.com

>>49384023
I haven't ever actually been to a GP yet. I hope to go to one in 2017 but I might not be able to because school and I'm planning on going to Britain in june

Any you guys planning on going to GP Vancouver? I'm hoping to be going

>>49383884
Post list

Have they announced how and when Conspiracy 2 will come to MTGO yet?

Should I stick a one-of Ashond's Altar/KCI in thopterswords Tezz? Being able to go infinite rather than just value with the combo seems worth it considering all the tutors available.

>>49387422
I wouldn't, thopter/foundry wins on its own, altar is just win more

>>49387467
Fair enough, I thought about it because I just lost a game against manaless dredge at -2 life from Flayer after he dumped his graveyard with Balustrade but stacked his triggers badly and lost the Bridges to me saccing a Strix.

>>49383670
Shame that you're never going to be able to get all of them signed without straight up buying a brand new Lotus.

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>>49362701
I regret saving money by buying a damaged LED

>>49370733
that deck is way more expensive than it shows there

bridge from below is like 25$ now...

>>49388154
That's only from a few days ago

They're sitting at $18 on SCG out of stock.
Well, makes me happier about picking up my playset for $40

>>49388154
I just checked again, with whatever MTGGoldfish does to get TCGPlayer's prices, it's $279 in paper.

>>49388077
Well that's different...

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Sorry if this is the wrong magic thread for this, but I was wondering what you guys think of this?
I'm thinking of bidding for it. If nothing else, just for the portal land cards which I absolutely adore the art of for nostalgic reasons. It's at $12 right now.

Is there any chance of getting any decent cards apart from the lands out of something like this?

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>>49388077
Reminds me of the time my roommate tested a ballpoint pen on my Dark Depths.

>>49388348
I cringed.

>>49388342
the starter decks are junk DESU, there's nothing good in them.

But 12 dollarydoos for shitloads of portal lands isn't bad.

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>>49388370
This. Invasion lands are dope.

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>>49388416
my fetish for lands are ones that have some form of civilization in the art.

a wee tree house, some boats sailing on the water, a spooky mansion in the swamp, a coastal village - all this shit makes me really happy. They can tell a story and show people living in these worlds.

>>49388460
I play Urza's basics almost exclusively.
Except in Reanimator where I play hideous white border Revised basics for easy fetching with Underground Seas. It's a great system, though I admit it's ugly as fuck.

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i do like my italian basics.

Back when I played ANT i'd use these ones.

>Playing lands

>>49388581
>folding to LoTV

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>>49370775
>>49370765
>I have 4 (because I'm a fucking Moron,
Well don't I feel stupid

>>49388608
MLP alt...... I loathe you. Don't tell me you are the one that did all those horrible things to power nine?

>>49388608
Go to bed seth.

>>49388639
God no. It started with an MLP token in Zendikar/Mirrodin Standard playing Kuldotha Red triggering tryhards.

>>49388460
Quinton Hoover's son is talking about merchandising his artworks. Might see some pretty dope playmats and whatnot soon.
https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/5290lu/

Pretty damn excited.

>>49388689
So do you watch the show or nah

Well folks, turns out I'm too sick to go to the SCG Legacy Classic in Orlando this weekend. RIP the dream, the next one that's even remotely close are the ones in Atlanta.

>>49387422
November

>>49388608
a...are you a brony louisana-kun?

>>49388875
>>49389160
Its been almost 5 years tbf

>>49388460
The Odyssey plains are pretty good, but the APAC Thailand swamp has a sole stone statue, which makes it cool for me.

>>49389211
BRANDED FOR LIFE

>>49389716

To this day I can't believe how a cartoon about friendship and small colorful horses could cause 80% of the 4chan userbase to go absolutely batshit.

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Here's the basics I use, it kills me not to use the Masques Island and have mismatching symbols but I really dislike the art, and love this one.

>>49388528
At least get some unlimited ones man

>>49388926
Whens the Atlanta one? I'd go to that

any thoughts on this? I play a lot of vintage cube and this deck might be what I break into legacy with.
http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=13462&d=279098&f=LE

>>49390204
Do you like watching your opponents squirm in frustration and soft tears as you tap their lands every upkeep? Then that is the deck for you.

>>49370711
Hey I'm looking to get into magic to play with some friends from d&d but they are already pretty advanced players. Any tips? Are there any good, simple strategies for beginners to go up against pros with?

>>49390573
burn

>>49390573

Reanimator is a pretty simple yet powerful deck, and a lot of its key pieces have been reprinted recently.

>>49389211
name best horse Louisana-kun
it's Twilight

>>49390573
There is generally some decks that are much easier to play than other decks. I'd ask your friends to play their decks for a bit to see what you like, look up the basic archetypes and then play. Personally I find midrange and aggro decks to be good for new players because they teach you how to bluff, call bluffs, when to over commit and when not to. And with midrange decks in specific are maneuverable and adaptable to several different play styles.

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>>49390573

Time to post the guide!

>>49390598
I googled burn, should I do a white red deck? defense and then direct damage?
>>49390612
I think one of them plays this, he had a black green and blue deck. He has a lot of planes walkers in it and it seemed pretty complicated.
>>49390625
I've heard of aggro before from hearthstone. Is it like that?
>>49390636
Holy crap that's big. Thanks!

>>49390746
>white red
MONORED ONLY

>>49390746
I'm not sure what aggro is in hearthstone but it's essentially a main deck archetypes that revolves around winning in the early turns of the game with easy to play efficient creatures. The deck starts off strong and then deteriorates as the game goes longer and your weaker, cheaper cards, get outclassed by big, powerful, expensive cards (by expensive I mean to play not actual $)

>>49390764
Oh ok. I assumed your supposed to have more then one color in a deck.
My friends have a lot of planes walkers and mythic beasts. Should I have a lot in my deck?

>>49390834
Ok, you can stop baiting now.

>>49390825
Yeah its basically the same.
>>49390851
I'm just trying to find out what to do. I'll leave soon.

>>49390834
what you should have is
bolt
sorcery bolt
suspend bolt
sorcery to face bolt
sacland bolt
nonbasic counting bolt
scry bolt
goblin guide
monastery swiftspear
eidolon of revel
mountains

>>49390918
Alright thanks. I think I'm going to go with red.
Thanks all! you really helped.

>>49390978
for the record, just google burn legacy and you'll find the card names in almost every list.

>>49390636
It's like it's haunting me, a grim reminder of the unfinished guide I have yet to splice and post.

>>49390746
>black green and blue deck. He has a lot of planes walkers in it and it seemed pretty complicated.

It can't be Reanimator then, Reanimator doesn't use Planeswalkers.

Reanimator tends to be Blue/Black, and goes "Use Entomb to drop a fattie in the graveyard, use Reanimate/Animate Dead/Exhume to cheat it on the board, beat face to win game."

>>49391253
That sounds like either Shardless or Nic Fit

>>49383670
>white borders
whatever pleb

>>49391771
>not altering Alpha power nines into white border versions
Fucking casuals in MY Magic?

>>49391771
Let's see a screenshot of your alpha power then.

>>49390834
I suggest you ask your friends what they're playing and try play with their decks rather than asking strangers on the internet what decks they are playing. It sounds like to me that your friends are playing casual decks. We're playing Legacy, which is one of the most competitive ways to play magic. It might as well be different games.
That said, we'd be proud of you if you were to netdeck Legacy Burn and melts the pants off your friends.

>>49390101
But the wording matches my Seas.
>>49390614
purplesmart best horse

>>49390090
Donato Giancola's Urza's islands are great. They're what I play in Merfolk which I'm taking to Modern in an hour.

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VillaZheng's LEDs. What do you guys think?

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Close-up.

>>49392232
fuck
they look just like mine

>>49392232
>>49392257
Not sure If it's just me but all of them look a little different, lighter/darker, especially around the set symbol. Not something I'd notice immediately but if I was trading I'd probably take a look at a real one close by it to conpare

>>49392186
I just wish Rob Alexander had more basic Islands in old border than just 7th and Odyssey. His Invasion and Odyssey Swamps are probably some of the best basics ever printed.

>>49390636
>#YOLO -> oops
Every time.
The funny thing is that I'd argue All Spells is more resilient vs countermeasures and discard than Belcher with cabal therapies and pacts while not being able to beat active DRS g1.

>>49392232
I would weather them up, if I was you.

>>49392883
Oops loses to way more things. Belcher can't beat a Force, but Oops cant beat a cage/surgical/crop rotation for Bog

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Oh my fucking jesus christ I just lost a match I had all locked up because I misclicked and didn't cast the emrakul that was hidden under my shelldock isle oh I'm so salty fuck the MTGO interface

>>49395101
Playing what deck? Does DDFT even play Emrakul? What the hell is going on?

>>49395812
DDFT plays Emrakul on the board through Shelldock Isle to get an upper hand in matchups like Miracles.

>>49395842
>>49395812
this. It was actually a great and interesting match until I fucking bungled it. The deck I was against was some kind of Miracles/SnT hybrid, and the Emrakul package is good vs both decks, so it came in. It's pretty easy to resolve doomsday vs miracles because they don't have a ton of 3-mana spells usually and they think they can let it resolve and get you after you've gone all-in. Then you get them.

>>49395914
>SnT
Wuzzat?

>>49396073
Show and Tell

>>49395914
I saw some dude playing that on a cardkingdom stream last month. he was calling it "the miracle of science" or some dumb shit.

>>49396432
>>49396432
That's a shit name but the deck was cool and rused me good. Game 1 I Duressed turn 2 and he Brainstormed and then showed me Jace, Emrakul, Swords to Plowshares, and dual lands. I figured it was Miracles with a Nahiri package. I killed him that turn so I didn't see anymore. I boarded in my Abrupt Decays and shit and diluted my deck expecting a long game 2 and got BTFO's by turn 2 SnT into Griselbrand. So then I thought I must just be against a UWR SnT brew and sided out the Decays, and was staring down turn Ethersworn Canonist and Counterbalance by turn 3. I was able to resolve Wish->meltdown to get rid of the Canonist, then he SnT'd Gris in but I had been floating Emmy with my Top so I got Emmy in and he had to Terminus to save himself. This let me push Doomsday through counterbalance and set up the Shelldock/Emmy pile and then I misclicked and lost. Really a great match up until the misclick.

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On a scale of bad to terrible, how's this deck I came up with in 15 seconds? Format: oldschool magic.

4x Kird Ape
4X Erhnam Djinn
4x Birds of Paradise
4x Ball Lightning

1x Channel
3x Fireball
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Chain Lightning
1x Regrowth
1x Natural Selection
1x Tranquility

1x Black Lotus (proxy)
1x Mox Ruby (proxy)
1x Mox Emerald (proxy)
1x Slyvan Library
1x Wheel of Fortune
1x Fork

4x Taiga
12x Mountain
6x Forest
1x Strip Mine

>>49397096
Horrofic. Channel + Fireball gets BTFO by every counterspell in the format. I'll give you points for old school aesthetic, though. What's say... solid 6.5 out of 10?

>>49397275
Neither are moxen, lotus, nor wheel. But I don't have any actual Legacy comments to add, since I unfortunately can't attend my local store's legacy events currently.

But where else would you post Vintage or Old School (what that is a list for) stuff anyway?

>>49397323

I realized that just a hair second after I pressed post, but it takes 60 seconds to wait to delete your messages...

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Is this card an underrated substitute for Orim's Chant? Like Abeyance it shuts off Spells and Abilities for the player for the following turn (if you play it during your second main, that would only affect your opponent), but unlike Abeyance it also prevents attacking, which is what a Kicked Orim's Chant will do. Then again, should you just run Silence which prevents your opponent from casting any spells at all, but leaves whatever they already have on the board (plainswalkers, creatures, and utility lands) alone?

Orim's Chant is the gold standard, but I find myself having a hard time deciding between Abeyance, Silence, and Peace Talks for additional white control

>>49398629
It perhaps could be, it seems like it would be better against less decks but really good against those decks

>>49396513
Sounds way better than when I tried to combine, ANT, Miracles and deathblade into 1 deck it was okay until I drew terminus or ad nauseum, go figure

>>49392232
They are pretty good but the set symbol is a bit different. Compare it to any other Mirage card.

I recently started buying chinaman versions of all expensive cards I'm buying, for reference.

>>49394219
You play Belcher sideboard and only crop for Bog comes up g1 besides DRS.

>>49377774
>Where does the BBB come from after you cast Ideas Unbound?
swamp ritual at the beginning.
Didn't saw you answering me before, sorry.

>>49401225
see you asking*

>>49401225
But you need that to cast doomsday.

>>49370711 (OP)
>playing
Top heavy TES (-2 Mox, +2 Crit)
>testing?
Whether I like it
>BDIF
Miracles ~~
>FDIF
BIT-rate 20/T
>your opponent goes T1 island, Ponder, pass. Do you rush aggro out the gate or do play around his counters?
If turn 1 == True:
If disruption in hand == True:
Play Disruption
Balls against the wall t1 choochoo!
Else:
Fail at life and play cantrips~~

>>49403600
>colons after conditionals
>no curly brackets
Get your scripting language shit outta here! C til' death!

Slightly off-topic question: What is the bump limit on /tg/? Looks like we're getting close.

>>49403688
300.

>>49403688
it's around 300. Maybe 310. We have a while to go.

>>49403688
310

just won my first round of a win a dual. I think it's 5 rounds cut to top 4, prizes to top 8. beat ur delver in 3. game 1 comboed him turn 3 or 4, game 2 kept a sketcher and died horribly, game 3 drew a ton of lands including 4 inkmoth while he was sitting on a bunch of counterspells. sided in hydro last and spellskite and a force on the draw, cut the force and a stifle for daze on the play. will update after next round.

>>49403648
>c til death
My fucking nigga.

>>49403883
Good luck dude. Hope you win a dual.

win a dual update:

just won round 2 against dark maverick in 3. game 1 seems pretty bad for him and I won through2 hierarchs + pendelhaven + blighted agent. boarded in necropede, spellskite, and submerge. dazed came out bc he ramps. in game 1 I probed him and saw garruk relentless and on nixilis and said "uh, I'm gonna have to read these." kept a 1 lander in game 2, ended up getting double wastelanded and never really got off the ground from there. game 3 I had a blighted agent on board and top decked invigorate two turns in a row while sitting on vines. he had a k-grip in hand.

>>49404418
Good luck, dude!

win a dual update:

got my teeth kicked in by esper deathblade. not really a whole lot to say, jitte too good. brought in null rod and needle but didn't see them. drew a daze the turn after he tapped out for TNN.

>>49404663
>>49404048
thanks guys!

>>49404935
How many rounds? presumably you can top8 with 1 loss? Good luck F a m

>>49404935
Someday I'll have the money to build Esper Deathblade. Sucks that all your wins are 2-1, though. That must really kill your percentages.

>>49404984
it's 5 rounds. I top 8d the last one with 2 losses, but I need to top 4 today to play out for good stuff.

>>49405028
yeah, probably. I've never really taken the time to understand tournament math. maybe I can just win out. I feel like I'm due for a turn 2.

win a dual update/blog post:

win round 3 against turbo depths in 2. probe turn 1 saw 2 discard spells, 2 hexmage, 2 sylvan scrying, urborg.
I play hierarch and pass. he inquisitions me and sees 2 agent, invigorate, vines. takes invigorate. I draw wasteland and use it to cast blighted agent. he rips dark depths and makes a 20/20. I rip invigorate and kill him. game two both our hand are awkward. I have an elf and a pendelhaven and he surgicals my invigorates and plays a chalice for one off two lotus petals. I ride the 2/3 elf to victory. boarded in spellskite, force, needle, crop rotation, wasteland. thought about null rod, but didn't see any petals game 1 and not all builds run them. didn't board in submerge because I knew he was on the mana confluence build. in his words. he seemed to think I could draw in next round. I have no idea. maybe if my next round opponent offers and explains the math.

>>49405631
I promise I'm not as illiterate as my phone is making it seem.

win a dual update/blog post:

I was first going into round 5 but was unable to draw with my opponent. lost to mud in 3. In the third game there was a point where I was able to attack for lethal with inkmoth and invigorate, but he activated forge master in response and got staff of nin. close games. unfortunately, I'm pretty sure that knocks me out of top 4. oh well.

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final blog post: I got 5th. feels bad.

>>49406811
>>49406649

Hey, that's not so bad. It's interesting to me that MUD was the one that was able to take you down, I would have thought it lacked the removal necessary to deal well with Infect.

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>>49406811
>5th
I know this feel. I got 9th last FNM and missed the cut to top 8 by one game.

>>49407233
Hey, I missed a PTQ top 8 because I didn't want to be "that guy" that calls slow play on a control player we went to turns and I revealed my hand to her to show her she'd be dead next turn, doesn't fold we both get draws and I wiff the next 2 games to miss top8

>>49407283
I almost called slow play on this dude who legit took three minutes shuffling his hand and staring at the board wondering what he could do. He had like 3 lands (all tapped) and was at 4 life, he was so fucking dead. It was FNM with like 16 people so I didn't really care but watching him sit there almost made me go for a slow play call.

>>49407355
I don't have a lot of regrets in life but this game will always stick with me. She continually spent atleast 30 seconds each turn looking over her hand and counting her graveyard and what not. At the end of the game she revealed her hand to show me 2 read the bones that would've killed her if she cast them, and 1 land.

>>49407355
there's nothing to feel about about calling for slow play on FNM. They don't sanction slow play on Regular Rules Enforcement Level other than telling the player to play faster. Repeated warnings could repeat in a game loss at the judge's discretion, but that rarely happens.

>>49407064
it's just that infect runs on super tight margins so turn 1 sphere, chalice, whatever are super frustrating to try and play through. he also played smart and copied my inkmoth nexus with vesuva to leave up as a blocker.

For those not paying attention to the Modern events, Infect just won turn three through removal and card disruption, so it's probably not much longer for that format.

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>>49410176
my modern decks keep getting banned. maybe it'll just be become immense.

>>49405028
Esper Deathblade is fun. It's my secondary deck, currently disassembled right now for Jeskai Mentor.

Jesus reanimator decks are so frustrating to play against. I just played against UB and then BR reanimator and went 1-2 both times. Fucking BR reanimator had straight up nut draws in G1 and G3. Reveal Chancellor of the Annex, then swamp-> ritual-> thoughtseize-> petal-> looting->exhume or something similar both games. I know they're supposed to be bad matchups but they're both so prevalent online that I'm tempted to hate them hard.

>>49398629
It is EDH secret tech, for sure.

So how bad exactly is Dreadstill in the current meta? The fact that a real deck existed at some point that used my favorite childhood beater got me interested in looking into the format in the first place(the fact that buying 4x Goblin Guides completed a legit burn deck, which I've completed, sold me). EDH got me back into Magic a few years back and the Legacy format as such did not exist when I quit the game.

There's "legit" decks that do look damn cool. Lands, for instance. Now that I have a functional deck, I'm looking into other options, but damn do I love the Dreadnought. Also stifle is my favorite counterspell.

>>49413459
The biggest roadblock to the success of dreadstill is Abrupt Decay. This kills the dreadnought. You should just play the deck anyway and play 4 copies of vision charm as super dope secret tech

>>49413459
>>49413963
Can I get a deck tech?

>>49413990
well I ain't no expert. Here's a list: http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=2761&d=217851&f=LE
looks a lot like a delver deck, but you have grim lavamancer which can act as a threat and removal under standstill. Personally I don't like the Standstills in a deck like this. i'd just play a delver style deck with Stifle and Dreadnought. 4 Vision charm is overkill, but 1 or 2 could double as a stifle for dreadnought, a hedge against abrupt decay, and a chant vs mono-colored decks. And I'm sure the mill mode has some corner-case utility

>>49414097
Oh, so it's a standstill deck that has a weird stifle-to-kick dreadnought element to it. Interesting.

>>49414097
Yeah, the utility of vision charm seems like the way to go rather than the narrow use of misdirection, which is also card disadvantage.

>>49414126
>>49414097
Here's a list that is a bit more recent.
http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=12960&d=275530&f=LE

>>49414330
Probably a stupid question, but is the cavern for the Delver?

>>49414378
Cavern either lets through Delver and Pyromancer or Dreadnought

>>49414378
cavern on human gets everything but dreadnought

>>49414429
Okay, that makes sense I was being stupid. Everything is the same creature type.

It can't work on the dreadnought anyway because they can just counter the stifle.

>>49414491
Okay, that isn't true either. They are running trickbind. Alright, the list all makes sense now.

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Here's a dumb question to for the top of the thread: Should Gitaxian Probe be banned? Not for power level reasons, but because it ruins one of the basic aspects of the game. Bluffing used to be a big part of playing against combo. Storm is still going to play discard to get a look, but that isn't free like Gitaxian Probe is. I just hate what the card does to Cabal Therapy and killing one of the more interesting social aspects of the game.

>>49414827
Not if you play like a human being and brainstorm well.

>>49414845
What?

>play burn vs manaless dredge online
>He wins turn 1
>I side in 2x Grafdigger's Cage
>Game 2 play GC turn one
>Enemy concedes on the spot
>Game 3 mull to four cards, play GC turn one
>Enemy concedes
lmao what a joke deck. kill urself

>>49415477
>Probe enemy
>see a brainstorm in his hand
>after probe resolves, he casts brainstorm to reshape his hand

>>49416235
It's what happens when you play a "fearless" list
If you don't run the forces/shoals/chancellors or the green SB package you just die to sideboards, it's part of the deck.

>>49416269
more like a dumb list. Who doesn't pack GY hate in their 75?

>>49416251
Ok. In the insurance that you are playing a brainstorm deck and have brainstorm in hand, you can in fact hide the EXACT configuration of your hand. Of course, if you decide to shuffle away the relevant cards you're doing it wrong. So for all intents and purposes, there is still no bluffing.

Magic is in theory "poker-chess". A game where you have to make strategic moves, but are also working with hidden information. Reading your opponents hand and making decisions based on what you put them on is a thing of the past. You can just take a look and make the objectively correct play based on their current hand. To me, that makes the game far less interesting.

Therapy-Probe combo has also taken one of the most skill intensive cards in Legacy and made it into a joke.

>>49416322
Most popular hate is Surgical which does close to nothing vs Manaless and all the other ones minus Leyline require aggressive mulligans and you're still south of 50 percent to hit a 1-of on a mulligan to 1. Jailer, Scooze and Containment Priest get shoal'd and RiP etc can be Unmasked.

>>49416361
Guessing the most likely card or the only card you can lose next turn to in a given situation is not skill-intensive.

>>49416366
>packing only one GY hate card
Might as well pack none at all. They deserve to lose.
>>49416361
Ok, phyrexian mana was a mistake, end of discussion

>>49416378
Its turn 4, your opponent is at 15 has Forest, forest, swamp, Sensei's top in play, verdant catacombs and windswept heath in the yard, and 7 cards in hand. You're playing Grixis Delver and have a Delver in play and a daze in hand. Your opponent snap kept this hand and looks confident.

What do you name with therapy?

>>49416386
The odds with 2 aren't that much better and some popular ones like Crypt and Spellbomb can be just pushed through. Dredge isn't popular enough to warrant running a set like in Vintage.

>>49416416
I play Dredge so there won't be a turn 4. Anyone can come up with hypotheticals, reality's different.

>>49416417
Graveyard hate is never primarily for dredge, it just happens to beat the shit out of it. Surgical is for storm, Rest in Peace fucks up Shardless, Crypt and Spellbomb suck but usually come in against storm.

>>49416429
Yeah, your "I name the card that beats me" heuristic is pretty terrible. In reality, you get into situations where your therapy name is the difference between wasting a card and stealing a key card.

Dredge is a terrible example because most of the time you're naming the same thing: that's kind of the way with uninteractive Magic. Decks which look to play an interactive game have to factor in a shitload to figure out what to name: drawing a late game therapy can be an absolute beating if you're able to get good reads.

Is there any deck I can jam 4 Wildfire and go from there? I love the card in ever format it's legal in.

>>49416611
I think it might be too expensive to be good, but you could probably build Land Destruction Nic Fit

>>49416417
>The odds of drawing at least one of a 2-of is not that much better than drawing one of a 1-of
Last time I checked, it's about twice as high.

>>49416682
>>49416682
Ok, I'm gonna start with 4 Wildfire and 4 Burning of Xinye, since I'm ballin out of control for finishers I'll go for Thundermaw Hellkite, since it survives Wildfire Effects. I guess I'm red Stompy so I'll throw in Trinispheres, Blood Moons and Chalices. To still have mana I'll play Chrome and Mox Diamond, am I missing anything?

>>49416740
You'd think so but it's not.

>>49416911
>1/60 isn't half of 2/60
explain this

>>49416983
Hypergeometric distribution

>>49417117
ughh you fucking pedant.
pr(aUb)=pr(A)+pr(b)-pr(AintB)
The probability of drawing both cards within 10 cards is pretty fucking small.

>>49416841
Here's a Wildfire list from MtgSalvation legacy on a budget:
Creatures [7]
4 Inferno Titan
3 Sundering Titan

Spells [33]
4 Burning Wish
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Coalition Relic
3 Destructive Force
3 Gilded Lotus
3 Gruul Signet
3 Talisman of Impulse
3 Thran Dynamo
3 Trinisphere
4 Wildfire
1 Worn Powerstone

Lands [20]
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Crystal Vein
8 Mountain
4 Sandstone Needle

+3 Burning of Xinye (From the Vault Version)
+1 Coalition Relic
+4 City of Traitors
With more money;
What to take out
-2 Crystal Vein
-2 Sandstone Needle
-1 Talisman of Impulse
-3 Destructive Force

>>49416361
But you don't always have therapy+probe either. Most decks that play therapy also play either duress or creatures, so you still get to look and then therapy again. Lots of therapy decks are built to generate value this way, a la Nic Fit or Dredge, Grixis Delver. It hasn't really changed the way the card is used.

>>49417288
I feel I failed to communicate my point. Pre-probe therapy decks generated value with their therapies to offset the cost of whiffing. Now there is a slightly lower chance of whiffing on the first therapy. That doesn't reduce the skill required to blind therapy. The chance of having therapy+probe in your opening 7, assuing r of each in the deck, is only around 15-20%. That's not great odds.

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>>49416465
>Dredge is uninteractive
I mean, if I'm looking at >>49416416, let's think this out as I type. I'm willing to bet it's either some Stompy deck, maybe a bad Nic Fit build. With Top he could be representing Miracles, but not in BG. It has to be some kind of combo for sure. Budget BG Reanimator? Nimble Mongoose beats? Oh, it could be Elves, they run Forests and Swamps. Strange that they'd be running Top, but as a way to filter draws, I could see it.

In this case I think I would name Glimpse of Nature and then Flashback it based on what his hand had.

>>49417730
I would've assumed Jund and named something like BBE
It also depends what spells he's cast up to this point.

>>49417730
>>49417879
I'd think nic fit. But if they snap kept 7 and looked confident but havent played a spell besides top by turn 4, they're missing some card they thought they'd find. I'd be tempted to name abrupt decay to protect delve but if they had it they'd cast it already probably, or in response to delver. So I might name green sun's zenith. If you see they're on something like turbo depths you can flashback therapy if required.

>>49413963
I like vision charm a lot here because it also fucks batterskull really hard

>>49418072
And it randomly gets other cards too. Like inkmoth nexus ;^)

I'm slowing buying up duals I need, but those enemy fetches are disgusting. Because I know the price on duals will only rise, but there's no way they don't reprint Scalding Tarn.

So I just bought the most important Reanimator cards with my brother and this is what the deck looks like at the moment:


1 Bayou
1 Island
2 Swamp
1 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
4 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand
1 Bloodstained Mire

1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Grave Titan
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Tidespout Tyrant
3 Griselbrand

1 Animate Dead
4 Reanimate
4 Exhume
4 Entomb
3 Lotus Petal

4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Careful Study
4 Ponder
2 Cabal Therapy

SB: 3 Abrupt Decay
SB: 2 Show and Tell
SB: 2 Submerge
SB: 2 Pithing Needle
SB: 2 Duress
SB: 2 Massacre
SB: 1 Ashen Rider
SB: 1 Echoing Truth

Should I change something important? I don't have Thoughtseizes, so I thought Therapies are the second best thing as they do similar things while still allowing me to discard creatures.

>>49418819
I'm pretty sure they will reprint enemy fetches soon, either MM17 or the next Standard set/the one after that. I really wonder how expensive duals will get before people just stop buying them.

>>49419439
I sure wish I could trade the Taigas I already had for Volcanic Islands. Its almost like people only want duals with U in them.

>>49421212
Well I like my Plateaus. I play 2 main in Goblins for Thalia. But yeah, I'm glad I got a playset of Volcs for roughly 400€.

>>49419439
I like It That Betrays in the main over Elesh Norn.

>>49421674
I wouldn't actually trade my duals, you never know when you might want them. I don't even play R/G in EDH, but you never know.

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>>49421743
pleb

>>49421743
Not sure against which deck I would play it. Certainly a great effect, but Elesh Norn kills D&T and Elves (and Goblins...). It's also basically impossible to Reanimate. I guess it's nice against Storm?

>>49421743
It That Betrays has treated me very well in my main board.

https://livebunker.rocks/chat/int

>>>49420507