/hey /tg/, how would you guys fix this sorry excuse for a card game?

>>49362217
Same way I'd fix every card game.
Make the cards just where the stats for your minis or whatever are recorded, and the game itself is something other than a card game.

>>49362217
But it does exactly what it needs to do and is one of the most popular cards games out right now?
>Implying everything has to be MTG levels of autism for people to enjoy it.
I think that's probably why people enjoy it. It isn't a smorgasbord or autism like most other cards game.

People treat it casual, which is how you should really be treating games.

>>49362217
>fix
A game doesn't need to be excessively complex to have depth and/or be fun.

Even simple games have a lot of depth (go, for example), and simple games are especially fun.

So, no, I wouldn't fix anything in a way you imply.

What I WOULD fix with all card games, though, is get rid of rarity and mana system and substitute it with something different, because, fuck, literally everyone copies MtG in that regard.

Remove Warcraft.

It's such an awful... EVERYTHING.
Ugly Aesthetics, unfunny jokes, stupid lore, unappealing and forgettable characters, it's such a shit franchise.

>>49362217
HS is such a clusterfuck. It's easier to remove and forget about it than fix so many bad decisions outside marketing.

>there are people who whould defend HS balance and design choices.

I feel sick.

>>49362217
I would replace the crystals with upto 8 different types of crystals that you have to pull from your deck to play, so there's no even ground for both players in terms of what power level of cards they can play.

Also: add more things to play with on the side of the board.

>>49362217
I'd replace it with the wow tcg. It was actually good.

>>49362366
What is Yu-Gi-Oh, the only limiting factors in that game are the single normal summon per turn and your own draw power

The combat system is the root of most issues with the game. Heavily favours the attacker, which leads to the game being overtly tempo-driven. Which leads to needing cards powerful enough to swing the boardstate in order to catch up. Which leads to relying on RNG/variance in order to balance those swingy cards.

And then there's Arena with so much wrong I don't know where to start.

>>49362662
>someone who doesn't just suck arena's dick

Thank you

>>49362517
There are. There's even worse though:
There are people who defend MtG. If HS made you sick, you probably just hung yourself due to this new information.

>>49362217
Burn it down, send a kill team to the home address of anyone who has spent more than $50 on it.

>>49362217
Close the servers forever.

Use what makes digital card games unique from regular card games. Like adding cards from no where to the deck. A degree of balancing beyond completely gutting a card. Interesting mechanics and interactions something like evolution in shadowverse. I could imagine increasing life total or deck size could help somehow allow some more versatility and not drawing the game into fatigue wars which is seemingly the best strategy for many control decks. Make cardsure that can actually offer incentive for not playing on curve. Have arena rarity and standard rarity change so classes with excellent classic cards don't just fuck other classes forever regardless of what comes up in future expansions. Consider balancing cards with arena in mind.

>>49362661
Normal summon is almost irrelevant now with every monster able too special summon themselves from hand deck or cemetery adds xyz synchro and pendulum on top of that.

Same thing happen with draw power upstart goblin ,pot of desires , allure etc

>>49362929
Also for what it's worth i think standard is a good idea but it's stupid it had to happen so early in the games lifetime.

>>49362983

making the basic and classic sets evergreen without a proper re-balancing was a mistake.

Dismissing entire sets without keeping any of the cards that contributed to a healthy game state, or simply never got a chance to shine was also a mistake.

My only thing that bugs me about Hearthstone is the lack of extremely powerful themeing.

The themes of each class are almost purely aesthetic and there is very little to enforce strong gameplay themes in the classes.

>>49362217
No need to fix that is not broken. Hearthstone is one of the leading E-cardgames at this date.

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>>49362217
In b4 300+ posts trying to force MtG mechanics in a game that is working its ass off to stay away from MtG mechanics. Because MtG the only game people think is good when it is not.

>>49362217
I wouldn't, Hearthstone does exactly what it sets out to do in that it creates a coffee-break tier game with solid design, with just enough depth to seem complex, but not enough depth that there is any real element of mastery.

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>>49363789

>>49362217
Nerf aggro shaman, buff priest. DONE!

>>49363806

>a coffee-break tier game with solid design
>with solid design

Slapping the word "Random" on an effect and calling it balanced because of it is the furthest thing from "Solid game design" you can possible get.

>>49363857

Nah, people have been babies about "random" for forever when even "not-random" sports have random weather effects.

>>49363857
You are right card games with randomness are poorly designed games.... oh wait...

>>49362217
>/hey /tg/, how would you guys fix this sorry excuse for a card game?
Monthly patches and balance changes.

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>>49363883
>>49363891

>Flipping a coin to win a match is OK.

>>49363891
>>49363883

While a degree of randomness keeps a game from feeling repetitive because it adds an unknown factor you must play around and deal with it as it comes, it doesn't mean increasing the randomness further will also improve the game further.

A game that is too random leaves a player with the feeling that his actions has no bearing on the game's result at all.

Introduce best of three matches and sideboards to ranked games.

>>49362217

Copy the mechanics from the WoW TCG instead of this horrid phone-game system. There, problem solved, you have a game that is both fun and engaging.

>>49363944

Yogg-Saron is oddly enough less random than the humble Piloted Shredder. It's due to statistics becoming a lot more predictable as you perform more and more tests.

It's like how a coin flip over 2 flips is more common to stray from the 50% chance than one over 100 flips.

You can be pretty damn sure that Yogg will 'Kill himself and wipe the board' due to the number of non-targeting spells.

>>49362217
It doesn't particularly need fixing. The only thing I'd remove is the pointless randomness. A spell does 2-4 damage? Just make it three damage for fucks sake.

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>You can be pretty damn sure that Yogg will 'Kill himself and wipe the board'

if only

>>49363944
More like: Flip a coin
Heads: Lose game
Tail: Merely reset the whole board.

Since I've been keeping track
Out of 26 times someone's play Yogg against me, they've LOST 18 times instantly. Won 3, and "Meh" to board resets the rest of the 5.

>>49363944

I like having hard caps on how long a game can go.

Also have fun calculating the probability that it will win you the match.

don't even bother, a lot of it will depend on how the board looks

>>49363985

You gonna make this an argument about Hearthstone or are you just saying stuff to seem smart?

>>49364191

if anything on that post seems like "smart talk" you have bigger problems anon.

>>49364217

wut?

>>49364036

The issue there is that it also reduces the versatility of the card as now you can't have it wipe out 4 health minions.

>>49362662
The game works like
1. Field a card, if it can't have an effect while being fielded its useless
2. Enemy gets an turn to remove anything you put on the board
3. NOW, its your turn. Now you can finally attack with non charge cards.

This alone means there is no resources, only tempo control. And tempo control is extremely tedious when it its the main mechanic, and entire decks are build around optimizing for said tempo.
Everything on the top of that, such as the default cards being awful compared to the improved Deck Packs: That makes it worse.

>>49362724
Arena is a good idea.
Arena is awful because the deck building system is predictable and exploitive, and the optimal mana curve is extremely optimal.

>>49364272

>implying this isn't exactly what Blizzard wanted to create

It's boring as fuck but also really easy to balance.

>>49363883

Randomness is supposed to be a spice, to be used in controlled and carefully measured amounts.

Salt can help improve the taste of many dishes, but adding a pound of it to your plate will probably kill you.

Same difference.

>>49364290
Pseudo-controllable randomness is fine. Which rune spawns in DotA is random, but where it spawns isn't, so you can control the space and take it no matter what it is.

>>49364290

Yeah, and it is used in controlled and carefully measured amounts.

>>49364316

and those amounts are currently wrong for optimal player experience.

>>49363857
Nah, this is exactly what I'm saying. There's no actual tactical/strategic depth to the game (And a lot of that is indeed due to the ubiquitous RNG) but it does a good job of pretending that there is.

Though I did actually mean as in, UI and general aesthetic, which, while still divisive, fits with what has become the standard style of Warcraft based products.

>>49364330

Tell that to the huge player base who love the game.

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>A 1 in 7 chance to completely curb-stomp the early game, and most likely that match is fine guys, honest.

>>49364350

Nah, there is plenty of tactical and strategic depth to the game. Maybe not as much as you would like but it's definitely there.

>>49364367

>Tell that to the huge player base who is leaving in droves.

Streaming numbers keep falling, all major pro-teams are falling like flies and a marked increase in promos in an attempt to get the players to stick

blizzard has a true knack to create and then kill golden egg geese

>>49364368

What, you got the board presence to defend that totem?

Also last I checked counterspells don't exist.

>>49364447

Eh, things rise and fall. Give it a few years then we'll see how it all pans out.

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>>49364461

>>49364447
There are hearthstone professional teams? What does a team even do?

>>49364263
If you're relying on it to wipe out 4 health minions you're pretty fucked anyway.

>>49364574

Yeah but a 1/3 shot is still a non-negligible chance.

>>49364440
You're kidding yourself.

>>49364622

secret play order, certain card interactions, bluffing.

its not a lot, but its there.

>>49364511

Sounds like you had a pretty sweet opening hand.

Also wouldn't that turn the walrus into a turn 4 drop?

>>49364711
>it's not a lot
Yes, and rock paper scissors has more strategic interaction.

>>49364783

>turn 2

>coin out tuskarr, and tuskar summons golem for FREE
understand now?

>>49364844

>using coin on a random chance instead of a sure thing

I mean if you want to take that chance feel free but I don't usually feel so lucky.

>>49362217
Eh, as a Magic player, I've made my peace with it. It's easy to pick up, has an efficient money making scheme that Wizards WISHES it could do, combat is interactive and dare I say it, fun, but I can't turn my planeswalker into an artifact and have her clone herself infinitely to remove all the cards from my opponent's library in Hearthstone.

>>49364969

The lack of crazy combos and win conditions is Hearthstone's greatest strength and greatest weakness

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uninstall it and instal duelyst instead

>>49365041

Duelyst is like better Hearthstone it's amazing.

>>49365041
REMOVE NIMBUS

>>49365073
>it's a "vetruvian is top tier again but only if your deck is worth over 10000 spirit" patch

>>49365073

Oh I'm sorry. I can't hear you over the sound of me putting Blasts through your minions and turning them into totems.

>>49365041
Ugh.
It does look good but why does it have to be pixel art?

>>49362414
^ This

>>49365181
I imagine it's cheaper

it's good enough for me, though of course it would be nice if each unit was in 4k HD and had 2 minutes of hand-animation by leading disney animators each

>>49365041
Looks neat, thanks yo.

Attackers deciding trades and lack of efficient removal mean the game is inherently biased towards getting ahead on board with the highest stat per Mana efficiency minion.

The power level of minions is ever increasing while 4/5/6 Mana aoe is unable to kill a 1 drop.

An extremely imbalanced core set that puts two classes above the rest, while the rest are completely reliant on the cards from expansions.

A complete unwillingness to make balance changes in a timely manner, often waiting upwards of eight months before a problem card is even acknowledged as an issue.

As balance changes are so infrequent, they are heavy handed and effectively ban a card outright instead of adjusting it, as they cannot risk under correcting.

Design team often tries to force archetypes unsuccessfully, and after several expansions of this simply prints overstatted minions for the class (paladin, shaman)

Overuse of RNG based swing cards means that everything that happened in the game prior is invalidated by a singular coin flip.

Ladder star system heavily encourages faster decks, and legend rankings mattering only on the last day and being extremely volatile leads to people camping ranks last minute instead of playing.

Arena plays out like a simpler constructed, draft tempo decks with strong curves.

Arena balance is fucked and decided by rarities that the design team clearly does not account for.
But it looks pretty tho.

If you can stand the Weeb in it Shadowverse is a very fun alternative to Hearthstone. With built in tempo swing mechanic called 'evolution' it allows you to buff your minions and ignore summoning sickness (but can only attack minions). It has cool mechanics in every class and every class has multiple deck archtypes.

>>49365114
Could be worse, we could be back to keeper meta.

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>>49365181

You think your happy ass is too good for pixel art, you disgusting plebeian?

>>49365708

I think he meant shitty indie pixel art.

>>49366421
it's pretty well animated though

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>>49365708
>You think your happy ass is too good for pixel art, you disgusting plebeian?

>>49362217
Add the ability to do something, *anything* on your opponent's turn.

>>49366989
>forcedelf.jpg

Go away.

>>49367629
>Ok?
>Ok?
>Ok?
Yeah, nah, fuck that.

>>49362217
End pay to win

....is there *any* card game that /tg/ isn't shit at?

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>>49363891
No, no, I agree.

>>49364876
That's -exactly- the big problem though
In 4/7 cases, you get (probably) a 3/4 split across 2 bodies with a minor effect, which is not very playable, but decent and at least counts towards Thging from Below.
In 3/7 you get a completely out of curve monster that might just decide the game on the spot (its hard to deal with 6/6 worth of stats on turn 3 after all)
It is an example of -extreme- RNG swing very early into the game

>>49363055
Keeping the classic and basic sets as you nerf one class and 2 control cards into the floor.

>>49369793

And if they want to take that risk they are free to do so. Most of those powerful options also have strong counters through silence or removal (and that's not considering the creatures to be played)

>>49362217
One of the benefits of a digital game: you can balance cards post release. I assume they don't to sell new sets, or to avoid upsetting players. They really should have touched up classic when they decided it was going to stick around forever.

Not to mention they keep printing RNG cards that sometimes have amazing outcomes, and other times do jack shit.

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>>49370381
>you can balance cards post release.

>>49370468
Well, there's no fixing having a shit balance team.

>>49369157
What? How do I get good at Flame Juggler RNG or Tuskar RNG deciding the game turn 2?

>>49367629
Do you mean giving every class secrets?
I'd be happy with this. It is kind of bullshit that only 3 classes can interact with your opponent on their turn. And 4 classes have strong enough board clears they can wipe out your board, and 2 of those are the same, mage and Paladin

>>49363944
The big issue with Yogg is that he ISN'T random over time, and provides a generally very effective board clear. Yea, sometimes he goes crazy, but most of the time he resets the board, no matter how hard you're losing.

There's a lot of major issues in the game.

It's hilarious how bad Priest is right now, and it seems to be because people think Priest is unfun to play against. I love the shit out of playing Priest, and I love stealing my opponents win conditions, but the fact that warrior does everything I do, but better, and does aggro just blows my mind.

>>49370606
He's great for an audience though, I always get excited to see just what bullshit he pulls out his hat before inevitably killing himself. I would never play him personally, but can't say that he isn't entertaining.

>>49370649
Oh yea, he's fun as fuck to drop.

It's just ironic as hell that people use him as the problem with RNG, when the whole reason he's getting used is because he's actually fairly predictable.

>>49370664
Better question then, Where does one draw the line for random chance? For example, is the randomness of Knife Juggler acceptable because you know exactly what he's going to do even if you can't completely control what he hits, or something like Piloted Shredder who just pulls any 2 cost minion?

>>49370622
There's a video out there of Ben Brode saying they balanced priest off of Muh feelings instead of competitive balance. Which is why priest is so shit, every other class got balanced, but priest is specially balanced.

>>49370696
The problem is early game board defining RNG. If I get Tuskar turn 2 or 3 and instantly win that's bad RNG. Yogg is fine, same with the 6 drop shredder because late game RNG isn't game defining when half of the decks out there run out of cards turn 5 or 6

>>49365041
Spellweaver you mean.

>>49370727
>>49370696
It's really the early game RNG deciding games.

Stuff like Flame Walker, for example, introduces incredibly powerful early game RNG that can win or lose games just by it's choice in target. When you decide a game by turn two, that's not a good thing.

But there's deeper design problems than RNG, which people have covered. The simple fact that playing minions on curve is so powerful, along with aggro being so good(and the team being unwilling to print effective board clear) just tilts the game towards being as aggressive as possible.

>>49370707
I think the other real problem is that Priest is the biggest combo class and has the most situational cards in the game, which is not good with how the game plays.

>>49363883
> play chess
> wind knocks over Queen
> commit seppuku

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>>49365041
Best class incoming
I haven't played since before Third Wish was nerfed, what's the meta now?
Also, is Vanar weaker yet, because they were by far my least favorite to play against (Even though Magmar countered them)

>>49371101
Priest needs a better core, or the same issues are going to crop up every year. Shadow Cultist, Lightbomb and Vol'Jin had given the priest the tools that it needed to run more effectively, but even if priest ends up getting some decent stuff, it's gonna end up losing it anwyays.

>>49371895
apparently magmar didn't get a lot and songhai runs some bullshit OTK deck with the 2 mana clone and tusk boar

it's fun though

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>>49371895
I was more into Vetruvian. Obelisks are such a cool mechanic.

It was already fixed when they introduced Yogg-Saron, Hope's End

>>49373058
There's a minion which can give you like 3 0/4 obelysks with reverse deathtouch if the opponent doesn't have non-damage removal, it's hilarious

>>49370664

People bitch about yogg because he can win games that are irrevocably lost on a coin flip.

>>49362217

Fire everyone in design and put the WoW TCG people in charge.

I still like hearthstone, but...

I used to play midrange paladin. They stole my 1, 2, 3, and 5 drops. With the cards now available to me, playing on curve will lose to everyone but other paladins and priests.

I still play paladin, but I'm not playing very much while I wait for the next expansion. Secret paladin was the worst thing to happen to my class.

Making each turn self-contained did wonders to keep the game fast, but the fact they restricted secrets, the only disrruption in the game, to only three classes is just plain bad.

>>49365041
Downloading now, what am I in for?

>>49376351
It's basically hearthstone with a grid, a more generous f2p model, and a bit more spunk and creativity