/dcg/ Dropzone/Dropfleet Commander General

>>49330236

>leonidas isn't a stand up fight ship

It's the most stand up fight ship that the PHR have that isn't a battleship. Everyone else is vastly inferior to it. It's a good metric for the upper end of broadsides power

>youre missing a huge strength of PHR for easier tactics

No I'm not. The huge strength of PHR are 3+ save (hopefully) BTL & ECM frigates, great prolific carriers and terrifying battleships.

The broadsides for cruisers are not the factions main point anymore than stealth missiles are in DZC.

It's pretty obvious that unless there were major changes to some of the mid weight cruisers, they're going to be the Janus and Menchit A1's of DFC

>>49330248

The Achilles might see use although if it shares a limited slot with other heavy cruisers it might be in for a benching.

That torpedo is a big deal and having a reliable 2 damage per turn per arc on HC's, BC's and BBs could be good

It just depends how much it costs. PHR is going to have to be pretty points efficient unless there's something else to them that we haven't heard about

>>49330341
>It's the most stand up fight ship that the PHR have that isn't a battleship.
If that were true, it'd be outfitted with full mediums or with mediums and heavies. It's for gunning down smaller ships.

>The broadsides for cruisers are not the factions main point anymore than stealth missiles are in DZC.
It's literally a design element shared by the entirety of the fleet! Every single combat ship except for the Pandora has broadsides, each side having firepower roughly equal to that of a comparative UCM ship.

Not utilizing that fact, and planning your tactics around it, is wasting half the firepower of your fleet, and even then you're not losing out that much since PHR can fire a full broadside on standard orders, and are only outmatched when the enemy goes weapons free.

desu the Icarus is probably going to end up being the Phobos of DFC: the mandatory standard choice unless you have a better idea.

I imagine PHR are going to be very bomber heavy, especially with the Bellaphron easily being one of the most optimized ships in the game

I eagerly await the stats for the escort carriers. I genuinely am curious if they will do one or two squadrons per turn

>>49330503
From the BoW videos, Simon said that each side is slightly less firepower than an equivalent UCM cruiser
But as you mentioned, they can fire everything on one side without needing weapons free.

PHR ships can't focus fire on one target like the UCM can, so they'll have to work together more to get around it.

The comparisons between the Moscow and the Leonidas assume both going weapons free, but the Leo would still have 20 dice to shoot at something else.

>>49330562
I think the Icarus can launch two squadrons, so my guess is the frigate will launch one.

>>49330597
>But as you mentioned, they can fire everything on one side without needing weapons free.
This is another big thing; a Hector has the same firepower as an Orion at standards orders, without missing any potential firepower (since they're all in different arcs) 1v1.
A moscow, is missing two heavy cannons and two medium cannons at standard orders.
The opportunity cost for standard orders for the PHR in general is much, much lower.

>>49330503
>If that were true, it'd be outfitted with full mediums or with mediums and heavies. It's for gunning down smaller ships.

Considering it has more total firepower in one arc than any other non-BB ship in the PHR, it's the best you're going to get unless you just want to argue the PHR has zero stand up ships below the BB class.

>>49330503

Three of the four frigates don't have broadsides, the bellephron doesn't have broadsides, the Icarus broadsides are logical as they're there for anti harasser defense.

And my argument is specifically about the medium weight cruiser class broadside ships, plus the Hector. The LC, Ajax, frigate and Leonidas are all breddy okay because they specialize well (or in the Leonidas case, just smashed two cruisers together)

the Orion, Perseus, Hector and maybe Achilles are the current benchwarmers in my argument.

>>49330597

See this falls apart because that just means UCM can focus fire even better than PHR with multiple ships while broadsides PHR by design have to spread their damage across the whole enemy fleet.

While instead if you play to PHRs real strengths and use your amazingly prolific BTLs and carriers you can pull some suitably PHR level damage on single important targets

>>49330748


A Hector at standing orders will be doing less damage than my Bellephron who will also be shooting it's identical BTL while also launching 4 squadrons

>>49330813
I agree it will be a challenge to use broadsides to maximum effect, but do it right and although you can't focus fire the same as UCM, total damage output should be higher

>>49330870

It will be more total damage but depends on their being enough ships with double arcs and enemy ships revealed to shoot.

While the BTL/Carrier or UCM fleet can just alpha one or two ships to death easily

>>49330503

I somewhat expect the yet to be revealed PHR BC to be 2x medium and 2x heavy

>>49330813
>Three of the four frigates don't have broadsides, the bellephron doesn't have broadsides
Yes, the Pandora, the Andromeda, and the Bellerophon are the only combat ships out broadsides. That's a very small portion of their fleet.

>medium weight cruiser class broadside ships, plus the Hector
So, the Orion and the Hector? That's just two ships, both of which are general purpose.

The Persus is a toolbox, rather than being general purpose, and the Achilles will be worth taking just for the torp.

>See this falls apart because that just means UCM can focus fire even better than PHR with multiple ships while broadsides PHR by design have to spread their damage across the whole enemy fleet.
But you also get close to double the damage to spread around; PHR cruisers can threaten both halves of the board simultaneously, unless they're literally on the edge.
Honestly, I think angle of attack to get enemy ships at the very front of your side arcs is going to be more important than getting stuck in the middle.

>>49330924
>and enemy ships revealed to shoot.
Which is what they'll need to do, reveal themselves, if they want to compete with the PHR broadside on standard orders.

File: The opal and calypso can fuck right off.png (52KB, 1651x563px) Image search: [Google]

52KB, 1651x563px

Right, this time, THIS TIME, I don't think I've fucked it up. PHR numbers for double banks included because these can still be fired without going Weapons Free. Obviously this assumed both banks are shooting at the same target, because whatever.

My conclusions: the UCM heavy mass driver turrets (do note that plural, it's two guns on the model but one profile) are a nasty piece of work, but (iirc) only the Moscow can have two, and apart from that the PHR broadsides stand up pretty well. Also, the shaltari are generally only looking at around 1 less damage for putting their shields up against these sets of weapons (although with their lower hullpoints that may be the difference between getting crippled and not).

>>49330860
>while also launching 4 squadrons
Which can be delayed by range, as well as countered by PD and enemy fighters.

>>49331023

>so the Orion and the Hector?

And the Perseus and Achilles.

>Perseus is a toolbox

It's a really shit tool box thats good at nothing and is inadequate against all targets.

>Achilles will be worth taking for the torp alone

That's why it's a maybe. It's going to come down to price point and what limitations are on the list building with heavy cruisers.

>>49331052

Great so we can go weapons free double broadsides after they've alpha'd our fleet

>>49331139

So? It's BTL + nothing versus BTL + fleet carrier launch assets for standard orders. The Hector is clearly inferior in offensive firepower on standard orders. The main difference is inevitably going to be points cost

>>49330597

And in the BoW video the conversation got really awkward when the PHR cruiser just got shit on while the two UCM ships were both slightly dinged

>>49331222
>It's a really shit tool box thats good at nothing and is inadequate against all targets.
Broadsides, despite being able to fire together, can independtly target. It has the potential to maximize overall damage if it can get both a light and a heavy/superheavy ship on one side. In general though it'll be outmatched by the orion against averge targets.

>Great so we can go weapons free double broadsides after they've alpha'd our fleet
And? Unless they get extraordinarily lucky, they're not going to cripple (or destroy) a huge portion of your fleet, and they're now open to your likely still superior firepower.

>>49331222
>nothing
I thought someone was just complaining about PHR BTL being inferior? They'll be something for the Hector to fire while on approach.

>>49331108
Good work anon, thanks!

>>49331261
>And in the BoW video the conversation got really awkward when the PHR cruiser just got shit on while the two UCM ships were both slightly dinged
Wasn't it an Ajax, though?

>>49331344
I seem to remember terrible dice in that situation as well.

>>49331344
I've got a feeling it was an Ajax model, but they were using the Orion's rules as they're simpler.

>>49331328

>broadsides can target separately

Oh Jesus, PHR already has the problem of spreading damage too wide across the enemy fleet and now you want to spread it more? Just take an Ajax or Achilles and have a good prow weapon

>PHR has inferior BTL

They actually do but that's because PHR just cut their BTLs in half, the Hector and Bellaphron have double BTL which equates one UCM BTL.

No the question was why you would take a Hector over a Bellaphron and the answer is you normally wouldn't. Both have dual BTL but the Bellaphron is a full fleet carrier which is terrifying while the Hector is just an Orion besides it's BTL. The difference between the two is clearly going to be in points cost and maybe carrier restrictions.

>>49331344

It was but the point was that even under completely average mathfleet commander situations, the Ajax (or Orion even) is going to do about 2 damage to the Rio and Moscow each while the Rio and Moscow will cripple the PHR cruiser.

It illustrates the problem with spreading damage

While agree hawk aren't going to just change their minds over the pdf in a few days for us. I maintain that it's the wrong choice. I'm confident that none of privateerpress, mantic or Corvus belli think that they are lowering profits by giving out the rules for free either.

It makes sense that free rules will increase sales. Free rules allow players to try the rules without having to buy them, if they like the rules then they will go on to buy the rule book. If you don't make the rules free you are relying on the same thing happening just from youtube, cons and other players.
It also creates a sense of transparency and openness with the user base and allows for easy errata.

That piracy is simple is indeed a valid concern, easy piracy means that those that intend to simply pirate the rules and never buy a copy of the book can and will. As such people are ostensibly the reason not to give out the rules for free it rather undermines the argument.

Hawk could give a mini update here in the comments to avoid the two updates close together issue.

Miniatures are non perishable I agree, wargames aren't though. My experience is that other than 40k/warmahordes clubs only play a wargame for a few weeks before dropping it. If someone invests in a new game now only to have DF arrive next week they are going to get fewer games out of them.

File: image.gif (103KB, 250x241px) Image search: [Google]

103KB, 250x241px

>enemy PHR fleet took all broadsides

>I just ball up all my UCM in glorious semi circle formation so he can't ever shoot double broadsides

>Yang Wen Li'd the shit out of these abandonists

>>49331510
PHR will own you filthy human

File: image.jpg (55KB, 515x496px) Image search: [Google]

55KB, 515x496px

>People arguing about the efficiency of broadsides when fighting against enemies with primarily forward facing firepower

>distinctly remember having to spam fighters and torpedoes to beat FW Tau as Imperials in BFG


I've fought this war before

>>49331598


What are you going to do, shoot me with 2/3rds my firepower?

>muh no weapons free

Get scanned

Remind me, with weapons of greater than 1 damage, do we know if it's
>roll to hit - multiple hits by Damage - take saves
or
>roll to hit - take saves - multiply unsaved hits by Damage
?

Will there be ramming?

>>49331457
>Oh Jesus, PHR already has the problem of spreading damage too wide across the enemy fleet and now you want to spread it more? Just take an Ajax or Achilles and have a good prow weapon
Spreading firepower is only a major problem when you have the same overall firepower as your opponent. The PHR will require more fleet coordination and better tactics than just "bunch up and focus them down", but I have a feeling they'll be extremely powerful if you can take advantage of enemy fleet movements.

>It was but the point was that even under completely average mathfleet commander situations, the Ajax (or Orion even) is going to do about 2 damage to the Rio and Moscow each while the Rio and Moscow will cripple the PHR cruiser.

>single PHR cruiser meant for fighting small ships (or just ships in general) goes up against a UCM cruiserand heavy cruiser
>gets utterly wrekt while it does a little under half crippling damage to the rio, and a third of crippling damage to the moscow
Gee whiz :^)

>>49331610
>fighters and torpedoes
>not nova cannons
nova cannons are like duct tape

they solve every problem

File: image.jpg (91KB, 406x390px) Image search: [Google]

91KB, 406x390px

>playing UCM
>enemy PHR brought BTL Carrier fleet

>scans one of my ships, sacrificial lamb goes up and BTLs my BB putting another spike on it

>his BTL frigates activate
https://youtu.be/djZFHTa6TfA

>swarm of bees scour the wreckage of my fleet as entire Frat Houses disgorge onto the planet below

>>49331690
I believe it's an armor save against each individual point of damage, unless its a crit, in which case all damage is unsaved.

Basically, 4 shots at 1 damage each will have 4 to-hit rolls, and possibly 4 to-damage rolls.
1 shot at 4 damage will have 1 to-hit roll, but 4 to-damage rolls.

>>49331752
I think so? I believe the qualifications were that the ramming ship has to be crippled, has to be within thrust range (obviously), has to be able to turn enough to hit the target (obviously), and has to have a certain ship size (so no frigates, I think).

It may be even further restricted with the ship having to be at a third or a fourth of its original DP, but I'm not entirely sure.

In any case, it's meant as a fun and semi-flavorful mechanic that you're not going to see a lot of, just like nuking cities.

>>49331787


I have a feeling spamming BTLs is going to be about equivalent

>LOL BALL UP TO AVOID PHR MULTI BROADSIDES!

Have fun losing all but one objective. People seem to forget that this game isn't built around solely killing the enemy fleet.

File: image.png (5KB, 640x480px) Image search: [Google]

5KB, 640x480px

>>49331872

considering all I have to do is be pointed in the general direction of the objectives with my cruisers and let my frigates do their frigate hunting, I don't think it'll be as trivial of a strategy as you make it out to be, friend

>>49331872

>quote from guy putting 10 Orion's in a line straight down the middle of the board

>>49331872
I think they also forget that ships don't block the movement of other ships. Given each ship is actually located as a dot on top of the flight stand you could just fly into the middle of said ball (may require taking some ships off their stands) and broadside away.

>>49331973

You can't end your movement with bases overlapping, genius

>>49331989
Haven't heard that, and been following most of the info that's come out pretty religiously. We'll see when the final rules come out, I guess.

>>49331946
>implying the sieve of Orion won't be high-tier meta
Only the first and tenth Orions will be have one arc blocked off :^)

>>49332016

There's one wargame still being played that RAW that allows bases to overlap.

That game is AOS.

>hey man I need to just switch a few things on my ship base here and add a peg can you just pick up your ship for a second

>>49332016

You can't in DZC either and you measure from stem there too.

>>49332030

Do it with Ajax so you have 10 BTL too

File: 5125JeKzqaL[1].jpg (42KB, 275x500px) Image search: [Google]

42KB, 275x500px

>>49332075
I like it, let's call it the "clean sweep"

File: Peanutbutterandjealous.jpg (166KB, 594x590px) Image search: [Google]

166KB, 594x590px

A great hero on the Hawk forums made this and posted it there.

Fucking amazing

File: image.png (150KB, 469x350px) Image search: [Google]

150KB, 469x350px

>>49332141

https://youtu.be/pUU2UxERkGE

>Heracles with 4 BTL frigates battlegroup

File: Untitled.png (303KB, 350x402px) Image search: [Google]

303KB, 350x402px

>>49332060
Can't find anything in the rulebook that actually specifies that, you got a page number? All I can find is pic related, which doesn't say anything that forbids balancing the flying base on top of other models. (I wouldn't actually do that, to be clear, but can't find a rule saying you can't do it.)

>>49332185
You know space battlan like this reminds me.

>tfw no Gargantia side series detailing the politics and battles of the Galactic Alliance vs the Hideauze

>>49332144
Bridges in wargames are seriously cool, they add a lot to how a battlefield feels tactically.

>>49332144
Fuck me, that's cool

File: image.png (123KB, 785x757px) Image search: [Google]

123KB, 785x757px

>>49332203

>L-look there's nothing in the rules saying I can't put my seraphim directly on top of your Hades as long as it stays balanced

>>49332203
>>49332279
>not suspending all your flyers with wires from rollers mounted on the ceiling
>not embedding your table with magnets, and then attaching room temperature superconducting magnets to your skimmers

File: image.png (8KB, 218x231px) Image search: [Google]

8KB, 218x231px

>>49332016

Fine, then I overlap all my cruisers bases to where you can't fit your own anywhere inside.

>>49332317
Your formation will disperse after one turn, unless you have them all traveling the same direction, or station keeping :^)

>>49332336

Oh no 3" forward every turn

>>49332375
4"*
:^)

>>49332450

>the look on Chads face was pricelessly smug.
>his fleet obliterated and his last few strike carriers being mopped up, he knew he had victory even though the UCM now had complete control of the planet
>his eyes were alight with satisfaction as his opponent moved his last ship, now clearly in Chads own deployment zone.

>"at least the bastard never had the opportunity to turn" as his opponent declared he was launching a nuke at the one remaining PHR outpost

>>49332538
>entire enemy fleet is bunched up in a single doom ball
>doesn't take this chance to line up on both sides of them, just outside of their sensor range, and let fly
shit Chad tbqh

>>49332583

>just outside sensor range

scanning frigates

;^)

>>49332623
>rare choice
;^)

File: PHR_Cruiser_Orion0.jpg (78KB, 795x531px) Image search: [Google]

78KB, 795x531px

>baselines and xenos will deny that this ship is aesthetic as the sphere itself

File: Dropfleet UCM Ships Moscow.jpg (71KB, 820x436px) Image search: [Google]

71KB, 820x436px

>>49332982
>No one cares abandonist scum

Make way for humanity motherfuckers

>>49331610
Yeah, and it fucking sucks. It's such a boring way to fight.

Why does no one get broadsides right? Even the beta testing games seemed to show that PHR only wins when they go full carrier.

File: Shaltari_CruiserHeavy_Obsidian0.jpg (134KB, 797x531px) Image search: [Google]

134KB, 797x531px

>>49333342
[rapidly color shifting spines]

>>49333438
>Why does no one get broadsides right?
How do you do broadsides right?

>>49332141
Francis?

>>49333914
Force everyone to use them equally.

>>49333929
Kek

>>49333914
You either make them incredibly killy or you make the ships with them incredibly tanky. I feel like Hawk are going in the right direction, but should have made PHR ships more durable.

On or two HP more is not much of a boon when your opponents hit harder. I'm guessing Calypsos will see a lot of use.

>>49334201

I'm thinking unless the calypso is a rare choice it's going to be near auto include, which isn't necessarily bad since that's a very unique ship and describes the faction well

File: Sonicblows.jpg (142KB, 673x814px) Image search: [Google]

142KB, 673x814px

>>49333588

Got a tag team just for you hedgehog.

File: Scourge_Frigate_Djinn0.jpg (71KB, 793x527px) Image search: [Google]

71KB, 793x527px

>>49334494
[muffled SKREEEE]

File: Onlygoodjellyisadeadjelly.jpg (68KB, 640x614px) Image search: [Google]

68KB, 640x614px

>>49334538
Last chance to fuck off to the Shaltari worlds Jelly.

Pain train is coming for the cradle.

File: Scourge_Battleship_Daemon5.jpg (123KB, 796x532px) Image search: [Google]

123KB, 796x532px

>>49334698
[amused SKREEEEE]

Do we have any close-up shots of the fighter bays of ships like on >>49334698 's pic?

File: UCM_CruiserCarrier_Seattle1.jpg (100KB, 796x530px) Image search: [Google]

100KB, 796x530px

>>49334814

File: Screenshot_2016-03-03-09-26-27.png (433KB, 960x540px) Image search: [Google]

433KB, 960x540px

>>49334831
I'm still surprised Dave broke his "everything perfectly to scale" rule for DfC fighters. I'm not sure how else we could represent them, though.

>>49334936
>unique launch assets when

>>49335577

Dave said never. Get a 3d printer

File: 1425952489700.gif (2MB, 346x194px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 346x194px

>>49334698
>Scourge invasion fleets take Ferrum and smash their way through the United Colonies
>UCM throws everything at the Cradle Worlds and evacuates en masse to their slightly bombed out (and only a little bit moldering!) reclaimed territories
TECHNICAL VICTORY

>>49335627
>Implying recreationaly available 3D printers are capable of that level of detail

>>49335627
>Dave said never. Get a 3d printer

>implying Daves autism will let him keep that promise

File: 2014_01_08_21_25_56.jpg (158KB, 800x600px) Image search: [Google]

158KB, 800x600px

>>49334936
Firestorm armada ones were alright though I can completely understand wanting them to stand up off the table just like all the other ships.

>>49336175
FSA is 1:10,000 scale. DfC is 1:15,000. Kind of a big difference.

>>49336215
>1:15,000
What? It's 1:9150 scale.

Does anybody have a high-resolution version of the pic on phase 1 pg 14 & 15? It's the one with the scene of the bar on Aurum with a view out the window of a bunch of dropships. It looks like it would make a super nice 3-monitor wallpaper.

>>49336264
>Model-wise, the scale of this game is 1:15,000 – exactly 100 times the 10mm/1:150 scale of Dropzone Commander models
http://gamerati.com/dropfleet-commander-exclusive-first-look/

>>49336307
Running the actual numbers given in the sample rulebook pages compared to the given dimensions of the models, among other sources, gives you 1:9150 scaling.

>>49336307
>This blister pack can be assembled as either a Beijing, New York or Tokyo class battleship. It is cast in exceptionally tough impact resistant resin and white metal and features extraordinary detail. 1:9150 (0.2mm) scale.

http://www.waylandgames.co.uk/dropfleet-commander/33900-ucm-beijing-new-york-tokyo-battleship

>>49336307
Hold up, if the avenger is 12 feet long at 10mm scale, that'd make it .12 feet long at .1mm scale, but it's actual length is aproximately .2 feet long.

The scale is .2mm, which is roughly 1:9150

Any word when DFC ships to the US? I haven't been paying close attention, I just check in one in a while. As I recall we were supposed to get it by now.

File: UCM_Battleship_Beijing0.jpg (106KB, 797x532px) Image search: [Google]

106KB, 797x532px

>>49336545
>As I recall we were supposed to get it by now.
Hawk was hoping* to have it shipped out by the end of august, but they're waiting for some final printed components for X Y and Z reasons.

No firm date on when shipping does start, but the courier service will deliver it to you within 2-3 days for the US after the shipping announcement.

>>49336579
Thanks, friend.

File: PHR_Battleship_Heracles5.jpg (42KB, 793x233px) Image search: [Google]

42KB, 793x233px

Lads help, I'm in love with this ship.

>>49336826

>the only terrifying broadsides in PHR
>12 heavy shots per side, fore cannon that insta kills non frigates in low orbit
>one crippled enemy cruiser per arc per turn

>>49336981
>>12 heavy shots per side, fore cannon that insta kills non frigates in low orbit
A-Anon, I...
AdmiralAnon said it was only 6 ;_;
I hope he was just rusing us

>>49337031

I think he may have just glossed over it and noticed it was 6 shots per bank, two per side. That would be consistent with every other PHR ship in the game

>>49337330
That makes sense, and would make it even more ridiculous than it already is
shoot one heavy twice
or shoot two heavies at once

File: Shaltari_Battleship_Diamond1.jpg (139KB, 795x530px) Image search: [Google]

139KB, 795x530px

I wonder how the Diamond's particle triad differs from the Onyx's three particle lances.

I'm guessing that the former is a single weapon profile, but the latter has the capability to split its beams between three targets within the front narrow if the opportunity arises.

>>49337759
if its a single weapon profile compared to several that alone makes a difference, it might have a higher damage cap

>>49330503
>Every single combat ship except for the Pandora has broadsides,
Bellerophon

>>49331222
>Points costs are irrelevant
Nigga what?

File: 1456459885678.jpg (93KB, 838x489px) Image search: [Google]

93KB, 838x489px

>>49338381
>It's going to come down to price point
>The main difference is inevitably going to be points cost

>>49334936
Pretty sure you mean he broke it for technicals, unless you think those are Barbie dream cars

>>49338401
>Including sentences that suggest that everything else you said was both pointless and stupid
Points for honesty.

>>49337031
It can't be six. Frankly, six is the number of shots a normal heavy battery should have in order to be a viable choice.

>I really can't be bothered to troll through many comments and videos to get "hints" of how the rules might look. I've got better things to do - I'll know all I need to know when I get a copy of the rules and until I do I am completely ignorant of much that is mentioned in the "lists" presented.

>Why bother extrapolating (guessing)? Until I know the mechanisms, and what an Achilles, Orion, Taipei or Raiju (some sort of pokemon?) is, or exactly or what a burnthrough laser actually does. OOh the Taipei is close combat oriented - is close combat important? How should I know?

>Let's just accept that I can't be bothered with guessing, extrapolating, or whatever. Why don't we all wait the very short time until we get the actual, real, rules and lists? Maybe there will be some nice background to some of the ships that will make me prefer them when the actual combat stats aren't so good. You never know - well I don't.

W E W
E W E
W E W

>>49339877
> GIB RULES
> We can't just yet but you can find a lot yourself
> CANT BE ARSED, GIB RULES
> If this is really that important then go look you lazy fuck
> NO I HAVE MORE IMPORTANT THINGS TO DO
> Like what?
> LIKE WHINING ABOUT HOW YOU WON'T GIB RULES

>>49339890
I'm just confused as to how he has gone 9 months as a backer without ever picking up a scrap of knowledge of the game's mechanics.

Also

>Still no news from the printers then? Pathetic.
>David I feel its probably hawk ordering reprints of stuff than printers just running late at this point
>Well they have posted the activation cards on Instagram this morning, guess that wasn't worth an update

STOP BEING RUDE TO DAVE ;_;

>Hawk posted the activation cards in Instagram

Putting 200 memes on the kickstarter comments going full autism about the activation cards possibly being the cause for the print delay.

>>49339985

Truth

On the good side though, this probably mean we are almost there.

>tfw no dreadnought or corvette concept art yet

>>49338744
Not this bullshit again

>>49338744
>4 cannons per side
>it should be six shots

>>49341668
8 then

>>49341817
W E W
4, at max, and even then it huge outclassed both the light and medium guns in nearly every situation.

>>49338490

The entire discussion was whether the Hector could out damage the Bellaphron on normal orders. The answer to that is decidedly no.

>>49341885

Four heavy guns do 2.44 damage to heavy targets compared to mediums who do 2.21

Four heavy guns against non heavies will do 1.77

They're generally not worth the trouble

>>49341986
>guns do better against the ship they're specialized against
>the general purpose gun is better than the specialized guns against ships they're no specialized against
Golly gee whiz, anon.

Giving them a total of 6 shots (50% more firepower) would have them out class the other two guns in every situation except for light guns against light ships, and light guns against 5+ships or shielded ships.
It would make medium guns totally pointless.

>>49341885
Was a joke...

>>49341986
How much armor does the assumed target have?

>>49342132

Yes 6 shots would make it pretty superior most targets

>>49342365

3+, which favors the crit based heavy guns

Is there any ETA? This wait and piss poor updates is quickly becoming a very bad joke.

>>49342365

And a 3+ is the only time that heavy guns actually have an advantage, against 4+ Capital targets heavy guns do 2.66 damage and medium guns do 2.60.

>>49341668
Then they should do two damage each.

As they are, they only outperform medium broadsides against their intended targets by a tin, tiny margin. They are literally not worth the undoubtedly extra points you're going to be paying for them.

They should outclass the medium broadsides. They are HEAVY broadsides. Bigger guns.

I dunno, maybe they should be 4 shots, 3+ lock, 2+ lock v big ships (this is where we are right now) and 2 damage on crits.

>>49343215
>They should outclass the medium broadsides. They are HEAVY broadsides. Bigger guns.
No, they're not better guns, they're different guns.

>>49343377
At the moment they're shitter guns.

They literally have no purpose. Their benefits are infinitesimal against 3+ armor capital ships, and nonexistent against 4+ and higher. There is no point in them currently existing as they are.

>>49343377

Their "advantage" against bigger ships is within 10% of medium guns and their disadvantage against anything else is 20%.

Their advantage isn't even 1/5th of one extra hit per salvo.

This does seem sorta dumb. I don't see why you'd ever take heavy broadsides with this math.

Best way to fix it would to give the heavy caliber rule a change so that it deals 2-3 damage per shot against heavy cruisers and above.

>>49343215
I ran the math for 2 damage on crits, and it makes them between 1.5 to 2 times as powerfull as medium guns, in all cases.

>>49343426
>>49343470
I agree, but I can't think of a way to balance them with light guns, which as of now are roughly 50% better than medium guns against light ships; therefor, heavy guns should be balanced at 50% better than mediums against heavies and superheavies, but still worse than mediums against all other targets.

The bonus damage against only heavies and supers sounds promising

>>49343779
I just can't believe they got to beta like this, it's so obvious that they're utterly underpowered. There's no way I'm running them as stated in the rules unless they haven't buffed them somehow since then.

>>49343779

Two damage against heavies, pure and simple

>>49343939
>>49343779


Actually disregard, two damage on crits is flavorful as fuck. I love it

>>49343819
>>49343939
Actually, making it a flat 2 damage per shot with accuracy 4+ (down to 3+ with calibre) makes it so that the heavies are perfectly equal with the mediums against non heavy targets, but 40-60% better against heavy targets.

Obviously not optimal, as light cannons are between 40-25% less powerful than medium cannons against non light targets, but it's better than before and requires no new special rules.

>>49343819
I wouldn't go that far. I mean, it's not like heavy batteries don't do reliable damage. They just don't meet the expectation of (what is presented as) an anti-capital ship weapon. And of course compared to medium broadsides their advantages are very slim and their disadvantages notable (but that advantage does exist).

I would prefer if they had something more, like when looking at light broadsides, which are very clearly the best against small ships but poor versus most other targets.

>>49344005
>Actually disregard, two damage on crits is flavorful as fuck. I love it
It is, but it makes them much,uch better than mediums in all cases, and the design for the three calibers seems like they're supposed to be equal but different, rather than straight tiers.

>>49344070


How about just two damage on crits against heavies? That's some solid shit kicking ability but specialized

>>49344050

The advantage for heavies is so small that it's unlikely to actually affect one entire dice roll or hit total. In practice it's going to be identical to mediums against heavy targets

>>49344116
That would definitely work, and fits the required ranges.

File: image.jpg (75KB, 1505x744px) Image search: [Google]

75KB, 1505x744px

>>49344205

>the Hector would do 4.44 damage per broadside per turn to heavy ships

Dick status: muh

>>49344504

Achilles*

>>49344504
>Hector
Achilles*, bruh.

>>49339922
I'm confused why he's backed the game while apparently knowing nothing about the mechanics. I mean, the models are lovely, but still, who buys a game while knowing nothing about the gameplay?

File: image.png (205KB, 322x276px) Image search: [Google]

205KB, 322x276px

>>49344504

>the Heracles would do 13.33 per broadside to enemy heavies or 6.66 if it's really only 6 shots per side

>>49344552
We need to compare this to the other projected BB damage output

>>49344667

Also pretty easy

Beijing will be doing about 4.888 with all its guns, not counting the BTL

>>49344736
Ok, yeah, it's almost assuradly only 6 shots per side. Even without the prow weapons and with unbuffed heavies, the PHR ship will be doing 50% more damage than other battleships, which is in line with PHR design.

>>49344804

We have no idea what it actually is right now, as 12 shots under the current rules puts it at 7.33 damage

or 3.66 if it's only six shots which doesn't really scare anybody.

>>49344736
>Beijing will be doing about 4.888 with all its guns, not counting the BTL
Wait, what? At absolute minimum, vs shields, it'll be doing 6 damage per full salvo.
4 medium turrets, 3 heavy turrets

What's the average damage of the cobra laser?

>>49344878


Am I missing something here? I could be

3 heavy turrets,6 shots, 2 crits, 2 hits, 2.66 damage against 3+

8 medium guns, 8 shots, 1.33 crits, 2.66 hits, 2.21 damage

4.878 damage total on average against 3+ save


And the cobra laser is breddy gud, I just wasn't comparing it just because we're not taking the black hole gun into effect either

>>49344952
Yeah, nevermind, I'm retarded and added together three banks of heavy turrets together, instead of three individual turrets.

>>49344994

It's fine

I'm just kinda wow'd that the Moscow outguns the Beijing, at least without taking into account the BTL which should easily swing it back to the Bejing

File: scourgemath.jpg (133KB, 1189x351px) Image search: [Google]

133KB, 1189x351px

>>49344878
>What's the average damage of the cobra laser?
The sad twat that did >>49331108 here. I'll be honest, I just can't face mathammering the probable damage of a BTL. Especially not one with 2 shots, there's just so many fucking permutations. Also, we still don't know if crits roll over in the final rules, and that changes things a lot.

In other news, I did knock out some numbers for scourge guns for the hell of it. Far as I can tell, the rays are on the non-harpy frigates, the beams are on the harpy and cruisers that aren't all about normal guns (like the ifrit), and the beam arrays are on specialist gun cruisers (like the shenlong). The shenlong, as you can see, could easily do 6 damage to a 3+ save ship when up close, although with fewer dice it's more likely to fluff its lines.

>no update today either
;_;

I've found a hugely specific situation where heavy broadsides outshoot everything else. When you aren't weapons free, have two banks of heavies, are firing at a larger-than-cruiser ship, AND (this is the crucial bit) are firing at something on a different orbital layer (causing -1 lock), THEN the heavy broadsides can't be topped.

Well, by any weapon we currently know the stats of, anyway.

>>49345725
LO Achilles confirmed for high tier meta.

>>49345725
Wow so impressive.

Are Hawk known to put out erratas quickly? Because they're going to need to if what we know are the final rules for heavies.

>>49345764
Perseus does surprisingly well in that situation too, it's actually the second highest damage option weirdly.

>>49332203
I see it.
>Aircraft must end their move in a position where the model can physically fit on the table and...
>on the table

there ya go

>>49345899
>Are Hawk known to put out erratas quickly?
Yes, and for free on their website.

Who knows, maybe the delay was to fix this.

Honestly, I think a large part of the problem isn't that the PHR broadsides are bad, it's that the UCM heavy mass drivers are too good. Comparing the broadsides to the light and medium mass drivers, and the scourge guns, I kind of feel like they're all in the same sort of ballpark. The 4 shots and 3+ lock of the heavy mass drivers is a really double whammy in terms of increasing their effectiveness, I kind of feel dropping them to 3 shots would be a better balance move than upping the shots/damage of the PHR broadsides.

We'll see, I guess. Maybe the beta games showed different results to our theorycrafting, or something.

File: dropzone gal.jpg (94KB, 820x1025px) Image search: [Google]

94KB, 820x1025px

Oh, are people actually playing this game now? How is it?

>>49346290
DFC? Nah, we're just theorycrafting and mathhammering based on leaked stats.

>>49346320
Dammit. Oh well, carry on.

>>49346211

Maybe but desu UCMs greatest assets are its two shot BTL

>>49346290
There's some german guy on youtube who plays with himself.

huehuehuehuehuehuehue

>>49346404
Don't worry anon, I'll make sure to put a big announcement in the OP when it ships, just for you.

>>49346447
Do not bully the soft spoken kraut of beta rules, anon

>>49346211
Yeah, this.

Though heavy broadsides need a buff too. They are utterly inferior to mediums right now.

>>49331510
>Yang Wen Li'd the shit out of these abandonists
I want "Getting Yang'd" to become the term used for semi-circle formations.

>>49346716
>not "taking the Yang wang"

The advantage of a bigger single weapon bank is huge, and probably shouldn't be ignored. Going Weapons Free means that everyone's got range on you for probably the rest of the game. Staying on standard orders but firing almost as much firepower is probably better.

Look at the Moscow. What a beast. More heavy turrets than even the battleship--- except if it doesn't go weapons free, it's got the same armament as a light cruiser.

Conceivably, this is where the PHR can shine. They can turn oblique and broadside at range on marked targets, or anything the Pandora BTLs can flare up with spikes.

The exact balance between the number of broadside weapons is going to need to wait for the final stats though.

File: QWbBbYcvbEA.jpg (77KB, 604x603px) Image search: [Google]

77KB, 604x603px

I just finished reading the fluff from the Phase 2 book.
So yeah, mfw.

>>49346858

All of this is perfectly valid but I think the argument is that playing with the PHR fleets other strengths in mind (EECM, prolific BTLs and carriers) is probably going to be both more adaptable and effective.

That doesn't mean I won't be taking any broadsides focused ships, I just am not expecting it to make up the majority of my fleet

>>49347107

I agree. We aren't looking at the whole picture yet and it is possible there are a lot of unseen benefits to PHR we don't already know. They also might not be significantly more expensive than their UCM counterparts and in the end it may be more of a preferred style thing verse one actually being flat out better.

>>49347926
>all the excitement about PHR's frigate with a BTL
>completely overlooked that shaltari have a frigate with their BTL equivalent

File: image.png (17KB, 120x120px) Image search: [Google]

17KB, 120x120px

>>49347959


>PHR frigate has a 3+ without having to eat a major spike

>>49348000
I think PHR burnthroughs might be 4+.

>>49347959
>particle lances
>BTL
They have less potential firepower, but automatically crit if they hit.

The Jade is pretty much a free 1 damage (since I doubt it will do 2 damage like the proper, cruiser sized particle lances) every activation.

>>49348017

Armor save

>>49348047
Oh, yeah.

It looks like frigate spam with carriers is going to be the PHR way. Europa batteries are linked so they can fire both sides without going weapons free, and they have BTL frigates.

>>49348028
Seems that's the shaltari's thing, you know pretty much what you're going to get when they pull the trigger, but you won't get those big spikes when the dice go your way. I think scourge are probably the most opposite in this, they could easily do nothing when they shoot due to low dice numbers but could also spike up into massive damage.

>>49348408
>Europa batteries are linked so they can fire both sides without going weapons free
I don't think there's a single frigate that even needs to go weapons free.

>>49348420

Anyone have that leaked stat list for the UCM fleet? I forgot the layout for the UCM combat frigate

>>49348991
http://www.thewarstore.com/product110019.html

File: DFC-10003.jpg (67KB, 410x410px) Image search: [Google]

67KB, 410x410px

What are Activation Cards supposed to be for?

>>49349539
If I remember right, each battlegroup has a card assigned to it.

You then stack them in the order you want to activate them next turn, and are committed to this order.

Keeps the alternating activations from DzC but doesn't let you pick and choose on the fly what to activate, supposed to simulate the communications difficulties over such long distances in space.

>>49349716

Almost

Each battlegroup has a card and an initiative rating

The more/heavier the ships in the battlegroup are, the larger the initiative rating

Both players then both stack their cards in initiative order in one deck in initiative order with the largest number on the bottom

You then draw from this deck from the top to determine who activates

>>49350812
bretty good, boss.

File: Invader-1_1024x1024.jpg (166KB, 900x600px) Image search: [Google]

166KB, 900x600px

>Scourge delivery room
>jellyfish comes out
>nurse looks at him, pokes him, tests floppiness
>frowns
>doctors leave the room with the baby
>mom is chugging barrels of tar
>they come back in
>"I'm afraid we have some bad news. Your son is....special."
>Prowler bursts through the wall
>"WHAT'S THIS YOU'RE SAYING BOUT MY BOY?"
>"To put it bluntly, he's retarded."
>"THE HSSSHSSHKKKSKK FAMILY HAS PROUDLY SERVED IN THE RECON FOR MILLENNIA. I AIN'T GONNA LET YOU SHITTALK MY BABY AS SOON AS HE POPS OUT."
>"Calm down Mr. HSSSHSSHKKKSKK, your son can still serve. We have a very special unit for your son to join. The Scourge provide for all."
<years pass>
>VROOM
>"Look mommy, they just installed my new afterburner!"
>"I am so proud of you son."
>"Mommy, why doesn't daddy ever say that?"

File: wkPaG15.png (28KB, 182x193px) Image search: [Google]

28KB, 182x193px

>>49351816

>>49351816
So for someone who doesn't know dropzone, and is just hanging out for the fleet....?

>>49352226
Parasitic race that can also permanently bond themselves to vehicles they make if they can't find a human, giant alien worm, etc. That vehicle there is basically an APC with no weapons.

>>49352274
The vehicle was what I was asking for. I skimmed the fluff sections of the rule books enough to complain about them. no bully they're fine

>>49350852
What? No, that's pretty much entirely wrong.

>both players have their decks of activation cards, each per battlegroup
>they order them as they wish, face down, with top most being the first activated
>both players keep their cards hidden
>both flip over the top card of their deck simultaneously
>player with the lesser strategy value gets to choose whether they activate first or second
>once both battlegroups have been activated, flip the next cards
>continue doing so until all battlegroups are activated
>re-order decks as needed for the next round

>>49352288
It's the Invader, the Scourge's APC
It's pretty shit, it doesn't even have a gun.

When is the UCM going to get a Transition unit? :<

>>49352495
I just want to know when we'll get more transition units in general

>Apollo/Hera
>Hellhog
>Annihilator
And that's it.

File: Viking_SC2_GameAnim1.gif (1MB, 155x176px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 155x176px

>>49352495
Forgot pic

UCM
>Perth-class Corvette

Scourge
>Cetus-class Corvette

PHR
>Helen-class Corvette

Place your bets, what will the Shaltari Corvette be called?

>every day you eagerly await 6 am to 12 pm, in the hope that an update will come
>no update has come
;_;

What happens if a jelly infects a borg?

I was a UCM man-in-black, not a PHR spy

>>49353579
It* was

>>49352715

Well there was the activation cards image. That shows at least stuff is happening, but we are all feeling your pain anon.

>>49354037
>morning and noon will come and go
>and there will be no update
;_;

File: 1470434188447.png (405KB, 433x547px) Image search: [Google]

405KB, 433x547px

>>49352548
>Shaltari transition unit
>spider walker than can grav-Spiderman its way between buildings and/or friendly aircraft
>soars over enemy units, shits out a distortion blast, swoops away to safety

>>49354082
Nobody cares about your hurt feelings.

>>49354154
wow rude

Post lists, lads

Standard Army
Clash: 1498/1500 points
Standard Army
PHR Standard Roster [1498/1500 pts]

Hand of the Sphere [572 pts]
Mercury Scout Drone Squadron: 4x Mercury, 2x Triton A2(+RN-5 Skyhammer) [96 pts]
Command Walker Squadron: Zeus(Battle Vizier), 3x Odin, Njord [476 pts]

Battle Pantheon [166 pts]
Type 1 Walker Squadron: 2x Phobos, Neptune [166 pts]

Battle Pantheon [126 pts]
Type 1 Walker Squadron: Phobos [63 pts]
Type 1 Walker Squadron: Phobos [63 pts]

Immortals Phalanx [303 pts]
Immortals: 2x Immortals, Triton A1 [101 pts]
Immortals: 2x Immortals, Triton A1 [101 pts]
Immortals: 2x Immortals, Triton A1 [101 pts]

Immortals Phalanx [126 pts]
Immortal Longreach Rifle Team: 2x Immortal Longreach Team, Triton A1(+Stealth Missiles, +Miniguns) [126 pts]

Heavy Pantheon [205 pts]
Type 4 Walker: Hades [205 pts]

why are PHR so based, fluff wise?

>>49354886
>aesthetic
>privy to important information
>evidence that they're not being dicks just for the sake of dicks
>rumor has it on the grapevine that they're actually more aware of galactic events and going on's than the Shaltari, straight from the mouth of God, implying that the Sphere is above even the Shaltari's paygrade

>tfw you're so autistic that you unconsciously make symmetric lists that are boring as fuck

Hotshot
Clash: 1490/1500 points
Standard Army
Standard Roster [1490/1500 pts]

Hand of the Sphere [514 pts]
Hera Command Squadron: Hera(Grand Vizier), Hera (Guardian), Neptune [322 pts]
Mercury Scout Drone Squadron: 4x Mercury, 2x Triton A2(+RN-5 Skyhammer) [96 pts]
Mercury Scout Drone Squadron: 4x Mercury, 2x Triton A2(+RN-5 Skyhammer) [96 pts]

Battle Pantheon [286 pts]
Type 1 Walker Squadron: 2x Phobos, Neptune [166 pts]
Apollo Squadron: 2x Apollo-A, Neptune [120 pts]

Battle Pantheon [286 pts]
Type 1 Walker Squadron: 2x Phobos, Neptune [166 pts]
Apollo Squadron: 2x Apollo-A, Neptune [120 pts]

Immortals Phalanx [202 pts]
Immortals: 2x Immortals, Triton A1 [101 pts]
Immortals: 2x Immortals, Triton A1 [101 pts]

Immortals Phalanx [202 pts]
Immortals: 2x Immortals, Triton A1 [101 pts]
Immortals: 2x Immortals, Triton A1 [101 pts]

>>49354932
you left out:
>AI waifus
>detachable limbs are a hoot at parties

So this just appeared today

https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/dropfleet-commander-pre-launch-event-wayland-games-essex-tickets-27673428971

I know >wayland but it seems a good thing to check out

>>49355159
>AI waifus
Well now. At this point we've got:

>Type-1 AI
Stoic butler (This is an inefficient use of our killing power, master.)

>Type-3 AI
Spunky amazon (And that's /dcg/ canon, hotshot!)

Where does that put the Type-2 and Type-4 walkers for AI personality?
My votes go to Arnold Schwarzenegger and Idris Elba respectively. TODAY WE ARE CANCELLING THE RECONQUEST

>>49352576

Agate or Carbuncle class.

>>49355987
I really like Carbuncle. Agate feels more like a destroyer class name.

>>49355901

Idris is already in DZC tho

Anons, what size card sleeves fit the command cards?

>>49356604
I use standard MTG card sleeves. Works like a charm.

>>49355901
I figure arnold would be type 4. If not , maybe have them be lovable doge that speaks english.

>>49355901
>type-2
Stoic and by-the-books, regular callouts between both the pilot and AI to maximize killing potential and lines of fire, along with a hint of smug invincibility.

>>49357635
>lovable doge

wow
such dropship
many scourge

>>49357635
>>49358860
It's unethical to perform necromancy on dead memes, anons.

File: Suchfighter.png (514KB, 914x620px) Image search: [Google]

514KB, 914x620px

>>49358907

There is nothing dead about Doge Commander son.

I've decided to branch out to a new miniature game and this one seems kind of interesting. Sell me on your game, /dcg/. Why is it good, and how is the inter and intra-faction balance?

>>49355886
If they're expecting to have starter sets for sale on the 8th, that gives me hope that ks should have delivered by then.

>>49359190

It's not out yet, we don't know the specifics of the rules or how overall faction balance is right now.

>>49359190

Pros of Dropzone:

Solid Rule Set with little bloat - there are a few mechanics that are wonkey, but the rules are fun, give players freedom, and aren't full of holes. Uses an alternate activation system.

10mm setting for actual battles - not just a couple squads of dudes, but whole battalions fight

Combined arms focused - you can't just spam one unit to win (thought there are some power units in the game)

Faction Balance very close (PHR and Shaltari are on top, bu ttheir win % is only a couple points higher than the other factions)

Factions are diverse - Everyone plays pretty different and has a unique style

Storyline - Neat Sci Fi Story that moves forward with releases. Lots of narrative stuff for campaign. Storyline is friendly to players picking a sector they like and having factions be there already with characters and goals as well as biomes and details for the planets.

Models expensive, but army is not - I think the individual units are a bit over priced, but 150-200 will get you a complete army with lots of options

Hawk Wargames is pretty soild company: They have great customer service and generally engage with their community well, which leads to more feedback and rules balancing

Dropfleet Commander - The second tie in game is co written by Andy Chambers and looks fucking awesome. Nuff said.


Cons of Dropzone:

Models are expensive: Yes I can buy an army for 150-200, but if I want to use one of everything some times I feel like this is overpriced per blister

10mm setting - some people don't like smaller games like this.The models are nice, but because of the scale they aren't Infinity nice.

Reliance on city setting - you can play the game in forests and deserts, but the mechincs rely a lot on using cities with buildings and such. Recent expansions have released more rules for outside the city fighting though.

Finding games - The game is pretty popular, but it isn't going to be at every story like Warmahordes or 40k is.

File: image.jpg (93KB, 777x728px) Image search: [Google]

93KB, 777x728px

>>49354733

>576 point battle group in a 1500 point game
>without the vizier cost it comes in just under the limit

Living dangerously see

File: 1460364648607.png (500KB, 751x458px) Image search: [Google]

500KB, 751x458px

>Still no Dropfleet

>>49359190
>>49359547

Cons Continued:

Internal Balance for a few of the factions could be better. For example, PHR is the heavy expensive walker faction. The more popular PHR builds are heavy into skimmers and not walkers. Internal Balance is still pretty soild though.

Hawk Wargames is like 10 guys - Company is pretty small. Sometimes this mean releases are a bit slower.

>>49359567
?
In clash sized games, the points cost per battlegroup is half the total points cost; the limit is 750 points.

File: image.jpg (59KB, 750x754px) Image search: [Google]

59KB, 750x754px

>>49359617

You heard what I said

>>49359547
>>49359577
Seems pretty solid. I'm mainly playing Infinity atm, so a large scale game seems like it would be a nice change of pace.

A lot of the infantry looks butt ugly, but considering how incredibly tiny they are it's not that much of an issue.

UCM, Shaltari and PHR all look pretty nice, so what are the big differences between them? Shaltari warp gates seem like a pretty big deal for that faction.

>>49352576
>Perth class ship
>No Sydney class ship

>>49359972
> UCM
All rounders, they do everything well but nothing exceptionally.

> PHR
Slower, tough, good at building demolition.

> Shaltari
Teleporting shenanigans, shields for everyone, nippy grav tanks and slower war-of-the-worlds style Tripod walkers. Drawbacks are expensive units that can be a little undergunned for their points cost.

>>49359972

Shaltari are like Eldar with a teleport fetish. Low armor, high speed, prolific energy shields that give their otherwise fragile vehicles a 5+ save.

UCM is jack of all trades master of none, with a slight emphasis on aircraft. Plays like a modern military but with some scifi stuff.

PHR are slower, higher quality lower quantity UCM with nanomachines and some extremely heavy firepower. They're genuinely the reason why urban environments are nearly required to play, they will usually dominate long range games if given the opportunity

>>49359190
>I've typed this out so many times that I should probably just make it a copypasta or pastebin.

As of now, there are four main factions and one semi-major faction in the story; the United Colonies of Man (UCM), the Scourge, the Post Human Republic (PHR), the Shaltari, and the Resistance.

>UCM
The standard militaristic HUMANITY FUCK YEAH humans with a dash of vengeance; humanity had a golden age of peace and prosperity on their core worlds (henceforth known as the "cradle worlds"), most of which were provided by a friendly group of the Shaltari (more on them later). The Scourge invaded a few decades later, and nearly 9 out of 10 humans were lost in the attack, the survivors either fled to humanity's far flung colonies and became the UCM, or stayed on the cradle worlds below the Scourge's radar, the Resistance.
As of now the UCM is attempting to reconquer the cradle worlds from the Scourge 150 years after the invasion, the largest military venture yet in the history of man.

>Scourge
Alien body snatchers from SPAAAACE; jellyfish like neuroparasites that take over the body of unfortunate hosts; they just finished assimilating some other race of ayys, and had then turned their eyes on humanity. Having taken a huge chunk of humanity's population, they are now rebuilding their assets, preparing to attack some other race, as well as defending their current infrastructure on the cradle worlds from the UCM.

(cont)

>>49360119

>PHR
Before the Scourge invaded, a mysterious alien artifact crash landed on Earth. When some eggheads hooked up some electronic measuring devices to look at it, it turned out to be an extremely powerful AI that hacked all of SA and basically said "A storm is coming, you dudes need to get out of dodge quick". About a tenth of humanity took its advice, and went to the coordinates that it provided; a huge space battle broke out between these humans (the abandonists) and the military forces of the current reigning government, before they were able to jump out to space unknown (also crippling the human fleet). With the reconquest starting, these dudes show up once again as the PHR, and are super-advanced cyborgs with AI, nanomachines, and all such that. They tried to tell the UCM to not attack the Scourge, and are now doing their own thing.

>Shaltari
Diminutive, four foot tall aliens and humanity's first contact, they resemble stereotypical greys but covered in color-shifting (like cuttlefish) spines and with needle toothed mouths. They are incredibly advanced and incredibly ancient, having effective immortality in that they can transfer their minds into brain dead, vat-grown clones upon nearing old age; some Shaltari have lived for dozens, possibly even hundreds of lifetimes. As a consequence of this, older Shaltari are pathologically afraid of death, but their culture is also based around warrior worship; Shaltari are not given a name until they have served in battle. They're divided into many "tribes", distinct groups that cooperate and war with each other for reasons unknown; some tribes are friendly with humanity, some are outright hostile to humanity, and all of them have inscrutable motives like the PHR. One tribe, the Aztec, gave humanity the cradle worlds as a "gift", it only becoming known later that they wanted humanity as foot soldiers to war against another Shaltari tribe.

(cont)

>>49359972

>a lot of the infantry look butt ugly

Once you'll see them in person you'll realize why, they're absolutely tiny. Honestly only UCM infantry look bad, PHR and Shaltari are blocky enough not to suffer too badly from how small they are.

>>49360129
>Resistance
There's not much to say about them, they're just the humans that have survived on the cradle worlds for the 150 years after the invasion; some are friendly to the UCM, some are hostile, but all of them hate the Scourge. Toughest sons of bitches around, some resistance groups have been known to work with the PHR.

(cont)

>DZC mechanics
Combined arms-
Army lists and org structure are a very big part of the game, and you are actually required to diversify your forces for the most part. You need infantry, you need tanks, etc... Utilizing the many types of weapons available to you is important, as you can't spam an efficient unit too much.

Air mobile-
Everything in the game can be stuck in a dropship, allowing for you to rapidly deploy on the table. Mobility is key, and it's hard to pull off a creeping-wall-of-doom

Aircraft and AA-
Gunships and aircraft in general are very powerful, and along with dropships being essential to securing objectives, AA plays a huge role in the game

Objective based-
Your goal is almost never to kill enemies, instead rather to secure objectives and get them off the table, secure certain structures, control areas of ground, and many many other types of objectives.

Alternate activation-
players activate their armies piecemeal, switching off between each other; it's impossible for a player to alpha with the entirety of their army at once

(cont)

>>49360143
>Faction archetypes
>UCM
The UCM are the "middle of the road" faction, having tough tanks and respectable firepower, but where they shine is in their absurd number and variety of infantry and aircraft. They two light gunships, a heavy gunship, a superheavy command gunship, two bombers, an interceptor, and a mobile drone base in their repetoire, along with a diverse amount of infantry options.

>Scourge
The Scourge are the counterpart and compliment to the UCM, being faster and more damaging, but much softer and shorter ranged. Their MO is based around powerful alpha strikes and flanking exposed enemy units, as well as having some of the most powerful infantry options in the game for building clearance.

>PHR
Slow, heavy, tough, and powerful; every PHR unit can be thought of as a little under 1.5 times a UCM unit, and they make use of walkers and mechs. They have some of the most powerful weaponry in the game, as well as having some extremely mobile options to compliment their slower main units.

>Shaltari
They're just as fast as the scourge but even more mobile thanks to their teleport gates, as well as being nearly as tough as the UCM thanks to them being the only faction in the game with passive saves (energy shielding). Unlike the Scourge, they can hold their own relatively well in a sustained firefight, and they have access to some of the most powerful weapons in the game, like the PHR. Their downside is that under their shields, they're as flimsy as can be and are extremely challenging to play, and most of their stuff is no where near as durable as the PHR.

>Resistance
They're a dichotomous faction, making use of fast and cheap swarm units like technicals, as well as slow and powerful battle tanks from long ago. They make heavy use of infantry as well, and have lots of interesting toys and mechanics in their toolbox like subterranean insertion.

>>49360009
You know that somebody would just argue that it should be the Melbourne-class instead. And then there'd be another compromise and we'd end up with the Canberra-class. Nobody wants that.

File: 15-03-02_133858_M_C_1024x1024[1].jpg (104KB, 960x640px) Image search: [Google]

104KB, 960x640px

>>49359775
ey fuk you lad

Also, daily reminder that the Nemesis is the sexies type-4

>>49360212
Even in the future australia will be the biggest source of shitposts. Wonderful.

>>49360312

>Barros is the sexiest type-4 in both model, rules and out of the mech

Fixed

The Volkswagen sized ejection port for his cannon makes me rock hard, no homo

I love the split rules/fluff PDF format, is anyone vaguely competent willing to split phase 1 like that? We already have the main book and phase 2 done

>>49360380
Sure, I'll do it when I get the time, hopefully tonight or tomorrow.

>>49360417

Thanks m8. Downloading two 100mb PDFs on my phone is a breeze but for some reason downloading one 249mb PDF through the browser crashes it.

>>49360035
>>49359547
The game does not rely on a city setting, there are rules for using non building terrain in the original main rulebook. what the game does NEED, and this should be no stranger to someone who plays infinity, is lots of LOS blocking terrain, you need terrain pieces that will absolutely block LOS, none of this in cover BS that goes on in 40k.

The reason the cityscape gets most use, is because buildings are easy to cobble together in a pinch, and Hawk puts out some nice cardstock easy buildings. You really only need blocks of various sizes and bam a city. Doing a countryside at 10mm with reasonably terrain blocking however requires a bit of planning, some good layout, and a hand for modeling, in otherwords a serious time investment.

TLDR: Cityscape is overused because its easy

>>49360434

Even if you used the typical flames of war Normandy hedgerow farms board most PHR walkers will be able to see above it and just annihilate shit from across the board.

So canyons/thick forests are vital for non city maps.

>>49360434
It totally relies on a city setting. 7 of the 11 original missions call for structures.

Most infantry require on structures to function and bunkers and rules for actual environments didn't appear until later. There still aren't rules for infantry setting up things like defensive emplacements without the advantage of a structure.

Yes you could play in a forests or deserts, but there wasn't really anything set for you to do so. And your mandatory infantry slot would be filled by units that just sit in the transport the entire game. Hence why it is listed as a con.

>>49360572
>they need structures
Caves, piles of rocks, particularly big trees or terrain features can all serve as structures for the purpose of a game.

>>49360731
The reconquest books are full of ideas for alternate terrain setups in the theatre overview sections.

File: Hi4005&4015.jpg (70KB, 650x403px) Image search: [Google]

70KB, 650x403px

>>49360453
flames of war is a larger scale, youd need whole copses of trees, and small forests, and fluctating elevations like hills and valleys, hence why its not used, those are hard to create

pic related, sans the buildings is what im talking about (replace the center buildings with a small forested area)

>having to explain basic probability arithmetic onna Hawk forums
save me

>>49361160

I might have been thinking of bolt action but you get what I meant


That board even with the wonky scale would favor PHR/shaltari pretty good although it wouldn't be an auto win like a flat desert

>>49361245

Oh boy, who are they refusing to believe is shit?

>>49361277
Nah, I'm just trying to explain how to find the average damage of a medium cannon battery.

Apparently the chance to get a critical hit doesn't matter.

http://www.hawkforum.co.uk/hawkforum/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=8767

>>49361370

But against a 3+ the one and a third critical hits on average count for over half of your average damage

It's a gigantic deal, it matters a lot

In fact if mediums only hit on 6's but still crit, they would do identical average damage as if mediums hit on 4's but couldn't crit. It's that big to ignore armor saves

>>49361415
I know, which is why I'm so confused as to why he's modeling hits as only non-criticals.

>this close action model
fffug me

>>49360731

While this is true, it isn't in the rule book. When some one is asking for pluses and minuses in a game, you have to explain it for what is included because you don't know how experienced they are at playing game. They could just be stuck at LGS X where only rule book approved stuff happens.

>>49360751
Yes, but I mentioned that the recent releases included stuff for that. I was trying to say that stuff has been getting fleshed out more and more.

>>49361439

Because he's an idiot who can't split a 3/6 chance to hit into a 2/6 and a 1/6 with different outcomes before adding them together again

>>49361736
WHOA SLOW DOWN POINTDEXTER.

Next you'll be telling me the chance of a non-critical hit is identical across almost every weapon, or something crazy like that.

>>49361736
Are my calculations correct, at least?

>>49361977
Kek

>>49362005

Sorry I only glanced through the thread, copy them here and I'll double check

>>49362020
Online
Lordprinceps
Posts: 50
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2016 12:25 pm
Location: Dallas, Texas
Re: Tease List of the day! PHR Cruiser Dominance
PostThu Sep 15, 2016 11:46 am
dread2005 wrote:
Ah no my % are not hits anymore its Damage allready

So 1 medium does 1 damage at 50% and 17% after saves (3+)

And 1 crit damage at 17% (6+) (16,666....%i did a 17%!)

So medium needs no crits normal damage is same value

Ok, so, a bank of medium cannons has 4 shots at lock 4+
0.50 probability to miss
0.33 probability to hit without critting
0.17 probability to hit with crit

So, out of the four shots:
2.00 misses
1.33 normal hits
0.67 critical hits

The critical hits will automatically do one damage, so we don't need to worry about calculating that.
for the various armor levels:
3+ armor will block 0.67 points of damage, and not block 0.33 points of damage.
4+ armor will block 0.50 points, and will not block 0.50 points.
5+ will block 0.33 points, and will not block 0.67 points.

From this, we can see that the total average damage is [average number of crits]*[damage] + [average number of normal hits]*[damage]*[amount of damage NOT blocked]

3+: (0.67)*(1) + (1.33)*(1)*(0.33) = 1.11 damage
4+: (0.67)*(1) + (1.33)*(1)*(0.5) = 1.33 damage
5+: (0.67)*(1) + (1.33)*(1)*(0.67) = 1.55 damage

>>49362062
>copied my header, thread name, a
W E W

>>49362062

Spot on.

>no update
>less than 2 days until it's been 2 weeks

>>49362656

They have to hand chisel each page of each rulebook, leave them alone

File: 84331469.gif (490KB, 245x131px) Image search: [Google]

490KB, 245x131px

>>49362734
On the plus side, the rulebook is going to look great in marble.

A bitch to carry to and from games, though.

>>49362766
> not having a retinue of muscular slaves to carry your marble rulebook and the golden ark containing your miniatures.

File: image.jpg (112KB, 1143x1600px) Image search: [Google]

112KB, 1143x1600px

>>49362766

Good opportunity to train my lockout strength, brah

File: res.jpg (341KB, 1024x579px) Image search: [Google]

341KB, 1024x579px

>>49360133
They're actually astoundingly detailed for how small they are. Each of the resistance fighters has clearly different clothes, an AK, and an RPG launcher.

All for a guy who's smaller than a space marine's hand.

File: image.jpg (125KB, 900x600px) Image search: [Google]

125KB, 900x600px

>>49362939

Oh resistance are pretty good, I'm specifically singling out legionaries as being...underwhelming


These all kick the shit out of epic 40k infantry by a mile

File: HedonismBot.jpg (45KB, 512x385px) Image search: [Google]

45KB, 512x385px

>>49362823
Djambi, the chocolate icing!

[frivolous laughter]

>>49362939
>>49362980
Probably worth adding that while the metal infantry are great, the plastic infantry does lose some detail.

>>49363106

Thankfully it's only found in the starter boxes, metal immortals are pretty dank and pretty cheap

File: 562345636.jpg (535KB, 1280x1069px) Image search: [Google]

535KB, 1280x1069px

>>49362879

File: Futurama10.jpg (16KB, 288x218px) Image search: [Google]

16KB, 288x218px

>>49362980
They will never not remind me of this

>>49363214

Some hero, please redo this with Marcus in the background

Not all heroes wear capes

>>49363238

That is precisely what they look like to me

>>49363238
FACTION X CONFIRMED BOUNCY BALLS

File: UCM_conquest_of_PHR_world.gif (3MB, 512x384px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 512x384px

>>49363260
The white sphere is one of the Brain Balls

File: PHR_BattleCruiser_Leonidas0.jpg (54KB, 960x640px) Image search: [Google]

54KB, 960x640px

Best battlecruiser, coming through.

File: PHR_Cruiser_Ajax3.jpg (78KB, 678x451px) Image search: [Google]

78KB, 678x451px

>>49363558

File: PHR_Cruiser_Orion.jpg (63KB, 637x424px) Image search: [Google]

63KB, 637x424px

>>49363579

File: image.jpg (136KB, 623x511px) Image search: [Google]

136KB, 623x511px

>>49363558

>those pure aesthetics
>that "remove one frigate squadron per turn per broadside" armament

Bootiful

>>49363579

>that specialization on its broadsides
>that general purpose fore weaponry

Wonderful

>>49363591

>that completely unoptimized crap

You had better be exceedingly cheap

>>49363671
>>that completely unoptimized crap
>You had better be exceedingly cheap

>implying
It's better than heavy guns (which is because heavy guns are shit) in nearly every situation, as well as being between 65-10% better than light guns against everything but light ships.

As of now, both the Ajax and the Orion are excellent vessels

>>49362656
I have to admit I'm a little pissed off at Hawk. I'm starting to wonder if they're still frantically 'texing a file together to send to the printer.

>>49363671
Apparently the Leonidas' broadsides aren't linked. It has to go weapons free if it wants to fired the mediums and the lights at the same time.

>>49363889
Rather, it's lights are linked with it's lights, and its mediums are linked with its mediums.
It can choose to fire one or the other on standard orders.

>>49362879
Marcus has actually inspired me to up my workout regime. Seeing him posted so often has left me feeling decidedly unaesthetic.

>>49363779

There's not a really great reason to take an Orion instead of a different ship in the PHR cruiser lineup, except unless it's exceedingly cheap. Two medium banks are just not that intimidating. It's the Ares v1 of DFC.

The Perseus is the Menchit

>>49363889

I would be curious as to see the source for that, I could believe it (and it wouldn't really bother me since you want that double broadside anyway) but it's nice to have it confirmed

>>49363922

Exceed what you were born into brah, it's the post human way

>>49363990
>There's not a really great reason to take an Orion instead of a different ship in the PHR cruiser lineup, except unless it's exceedingly cheap.

Your alternatives to the Orion are:
The Theseus; pretty much a cross between an Orion and an Ajax without the prow weapon.
The Ajax; good against light targets but suboptimal against everything else
The Perseus; can deal with light and heavy ships, but the heavy guns can be considered as medium guns anyways
The Ikarus; good against light ships and can launch strike craft.

It's going to be used simply for being decent against everything, and bad against nothing.

>>49363297

Best image title ever

>>49364105

>the Icarus

Bingo, it's your Phobos equivalent for your mandatory cruiser alottment. It does what PHR specialize in (bombers) and can clean up the odd strike carrier off an objective. A wonderful ship

And the Ajax has a BTL which even a PHR version can pretty easily meet or exceed the 2.21 damage of an average Orion broadside. This coupled with the fact that its sole purpose is to face fuck strike carriers means it's a wonderful objective cleaner

>>49364105
The Theseus has specialist capability.

The Ajax has specialist capability, has the utility of the BLT's ability to light stuff up.

The Perseus is meh as fuck, literally useless.

The Ikarus has specialist capability.

The Orion is just mediocre at everything. It's likely that people will take Bellerophons and Ikarus to deal with big ships, and non-Orion stuff to deal with frigates, as they're all more reliable. Bombers are straight up better than medium broadsides.

>>49363671
>that completely unoptimized crap

I'm really really hoping there are some unseen cruiser variants. I want a cruiser with medium broadsides and a BLT.

>>49364233

It's a heavy cruiser but the Hector does that.

It's still kinda mediocre

>>49364189
>Bombers are straight up better than medium broadsides.
We won't know that for sure until we see the hard stats.

Remember, the main bonus of strike craft is their range; they also have to contend with PD and fighters.

>>49364267

>they have to contend with PD and fighters

Which thanks to escort carriers, PHR will be able to swamp pretty easily with their own fighters or bomber waves. There's no real denying that the carrier list is going to be a powerful contender.

>>49364341
>There's no real denying that the carrier list is going to be a powerful contender.
No doubt, but we still need to see the actual stats to see how it'll size up.

>>49360009
>>49360212
What if it's the Canadian Perth?

>>49364381

Well there's a decent estimate that we can work with but yeah we have no specifics on bombers so far

However, our magic number is 2.21 damage. That's how much an Orion or Hector does per broadside and it's not a very hard number to beat.

Considering two squadrons of bombers is supposedly a legitimate threat to a cruiser and four is a "deal with this or you're going to hurt bad", two Icarus, four escort carriers and two bellephrons seems to be a pretty winning combination and that's not even a very big skew either.

>>49364465
To be fair, it also depends on how the PHR's guns match up to other factions; for instance, if we go off of a 4+ armor target, an Orion will put out 2.66 damage per broadside on standard orders, while a Rio will put out 2.00 on standard orders.

Looking at that, we can guess that the PHR are pretty much UCM*(4/3)

>>49363671
To be fair, the first two are battlecruisers, while the Orion is the most middle-of-the-road cruiser (not even heavy cruiser) available to the PHR.

>At the printers
Okay guys, we're behind schedule. Hawk Wargames is waiting for their prints. This was a pretty big job and we need to get this done or they might never use us again. I know many of you guys are new and still adjusting to things here. I took a chance on you guys so let's kick it up a notch and wrap this project up!

أنا لا أعرف كيفية استخدام جهاز كمبيوتر

Okay Omar, let's stay positive.