Miniature wars

>>49307517
AoS got subpar models tho.

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>AI/aliens side. 'murica VS China factions are lame.

NIGGER

Its

America
France
Scotland
Russia
Vs. the anime factions

Also werewolfs for some reason

X-Wing
>Strong dark horse, Might be the one to unseat both GW and warmahordes
>Reasonably detailed miniatures. Prepainted, so its a plus.
>Very simple, yet very strong rules. Not as combo-rific as warmahordes, but there are still plenty of combos, imperial aces, fat han, brobots. Very fun. Balanced if you combo-up

AoW/9th age/WHFB pretenders
>Zombie king
>3rd party smattering of miniatures from all over
>Rules are what the players like, but is very crunchy. Will not attract new blood
>Decades of fluff. Too bad the old world died.

Battletech
>Ghost king. Was king when it first came out, then died straight away.
>Worst miniatures, period. It was bad in 1970, and it hasn't changed one iota. Illegal stuff is much better. Legal stuff is literally pewter turds.
>Extremely crunchy ruleset, almost a simulator. People use the rules to bitch about MWO more than to play the game. Extremely daunting and unappealing to new blood.
>Worst fluff. mary sue 'murica beating up Chinese people, Japanese people and assorted Asians. Later become 'murica beating up communist negros (CSJ), communist red indians (CJF) while the scandanavian-red indians get absorbed in. Very 1970s centric, very racist, very out of touch. Its like something your drunk, redneck, racist uncle will come up with

What about Malifaux, BloodBowl, Guild Ball and what else is in the market?

>>49307517
>AoS
>okay fluff
Not even a big fan of WHFB but AoS fluff is totally shit.

The new hottest shit with 40k is kill team

but the rules are still ehhh needs a little more refinement or just play HoR

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>>49307517
>AoS
>fluff is ok

>>49307608

Battletech
>Ghost king. Was king when it first came out, then died straight away.
>Worst miniatures, period. It was bad in 1970, and it hasn't changed one iota. Illegal stuff is much better. Legal stuff is literally pewter turds.
>Extremely crunchy ruleset, almost a simulator. People use the rules to bitch about MWO more than to play the game. Extremely daunting and unappealing to new blood.
>Worst fluff. mary sue 'murica beating up Chinese people, Japanese people and assorted Asians. Later become 'murica beating up communist negros (CSJ), communist red indians (CJF) while the scandanavian-red indians get absorbed in. Very 1970s centric, very racist, very out of touch. Its like something your drunk, redneck, racist uncle will come up with

that part looks like your butt is hurt somewhat. BT didn't come out in the 70's.

I never played Warhammer Fantasy or AoS but holy shit imagine what would happen if they bombed 40ks lore bigger shitstorm than the fantasy babies atleast

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>>49307808

40ks lore has been bombed out for years unlike Fantasy that actually had everything in place with barely any retcons.


40k is a setting I dont know why people care about a progressing story

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>>49307517
40k/AoS have technically great but overdesigned, messy models. More details do not mean a better model.

AoS is better for sure, but still worse than every other skirmish game out there

Infinity has awesome fluff. If you are referring to Pan-O as Murica, they are actually not American at all.

Infinity also has very cool centerpiece models.

Warmahordes balance actually got worse in 3ed. It is pretty sucky now. I was a big WM player but am now considering selling.

Malifaux has cool rules, but a stupid tournament format and weird aesthetic.

DZC is solid if you like larger scale battles.

X Wing is pretty dice dependent but fun.

Armada is very good tactically. It really captures the feel of commanding huge ships in a way BFG never did.

Guild Ball is really cool and will probably explode pretty soon.

>>49307808
40k has crap fluff.

A retcon would be the best case scenario, clean out all the garbage.

>>49307832
>will probably explode pretty soon.
in a good or in a bad way?

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>>49307794
AoS has the worst fluff of any game.

Checkers has better fluff.

>>49307853
In a good way. Has great rules, low model count, is fun yet different from every other skirmish game.

The biggest problem are the models, and they are steadily getting better.

>>49307861
This.

>Attack wing
>Just wizkids is nuff said.

>>49307517
>>Best detailed miniatures (along with 40k)
Details mean nothing if the design is shit.

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>>49307936

I really like the new Death Watch models.

Easy to paint and super detailed are win

>>49307960
40k has at least a good headstart : it's hard to botch a space marine design. Except centurions of course.

>>49307997

Say what you want.

Scion models are pretty good too.

Hell the Turox goes from worst to best with the suspension wheel conversions

>>49307517
>AOS
>Solid ruleset
What the fuck?

>Best detailed miniatures (along with 40k)
>Amazing centrepiece models
You forgot 'Shitty design made to appeal to WoW kids and turned in CAD by underpaid interns'.
They may be well detailed, but if the design is shit you're just watching a turd in HD 1080p.

>Fluff is ok, but incites nerd rage due to WHFB kill
Fluff is laughable, WHFB or not.

And seriously, you're saying that AOS has amazing minis and good fluff and that Warmahordes has poor design and poor fluff? Warmahordes has model quality and detail inferior to GW, but come on.

>>49307608
Wot?
>Strong dark horse, Might be the one to unseat both GW and warmahordes
GW and warmahordes are about moderately large scale ground battles between sci-fi or fantasy armies and have a considerable hobby factor. X-Wing is about spaceship combat and has no hobby factor since the miniatures are preassembled, prepainted, and there's no point in customizing them. I can't see how would it unseat them since it has a very different niche.

>Reasonably detailed miniatures. Prepainted, so its a plus.
Yeah, it's a plus unless you actually like assembling and painting miniatures, which for many people here are very strong parts of the hobby.

>>49307960
When they reuse designs from 30 years ago like the dumpy potato men, they do a pretty good job.

When modern day GW needs to create something new it looks terrible.

>>49308041
Yeah, XWing and Armada might be good games, but they are really a different category.

Right now I think Infinity is the one to bet on for unseating GW. Way better 3rd ed than WM and is showing strong growth in my area. Amazing models too.

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>>49308030

I wish their lore wasnt grimderp

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>>49308105
I just can't get over how weird GWs proportions are. Maybe if I grew up with it it would look normal, but they all look like they have downs to me.

>>49308125
Once you start dealing with other manufacturers than GW, GW minis start to look wonky as hell.

>>49308105
Wrong setting, mate.
Just don't take it too seriously like some neckbeards would want you to and you'll be fine playing whatever looks good.

>>49308125
Yeah, I get you.
It's a thing you get used to (and even attached to) when you've grown up with GW minis (and all alternatives being even worse than GW), but once you start seeing the alternatives, the derpiness become apparent.

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>>49308208
All minis are beautiful, anon.

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>>49308248

>>49308248

You'd think this picture would pair the Centurion with the Iguana, since it's a TAG with an HI inside like the Centurion is a Space Marine in a Space Marine.

>>49307517
>Possibly best rules?
Nope. NONONONO.

Balance within and between factions is terrible, and auto losing due to gotchas is annoying as hell.

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>>49308328
Isn't it a lot bigger?

Better comparison would be they grey knight walker imo.

>>49308346
That one is pretty rad.

>>49308332
In MKII most factions had plenty of viable options to make very different lists and be competitive, and balance between factions was pretty consistent. There *was* unbalance, but very negligible compared to WH40k, to say one. Not to mention WH40k offers you just one or two competitive lists per codex.

I don't have experience with MkIII yet, though.

>>49308403
Yep, 40k definitely has pretty bad unbalance.

Malifaux, Infinity, Xwing, Armada, Guild Ball, Kings of War, DZC, etc all have much better balance than WM/H. They really botched 3ed, not wrt to rules, which had some great changes, but wrt to profiles.

>>49308041
The main argument is that you play with vehicles in X-Wing, not people. It's too impersonal for me.

>>49308403
Any game has better balance than a GW game.

>>49308453
You must have never played 5th ed 40k lol.

>>49308125

Cmon early Infinity had downes too

>>49308876
True, but not for years

>>49307798
He also didn't play alpha strike if he wanted a less simulation game with battletech

>>49308041
>>AOS
>Solid ruleset What the fuck?
Its rules are pretty straightforward and solid for the most part. Its terribleness is mostly a meme.
>You forgot 'Shitty design made to appeal to WoW kids and turned in CAD by underpaid interns'. They may be well detailed, but if the design is shit you're just watching a turd in HD 1080p.
>And seriously, you're saying that AOS has amazing minis and good fluff and that Warmahordes has poor design and poor fluff?
>All this coming for a warmahordes player

The fluff of Warmahordes is pretty awful but models wise they are completely blown away by GW in general. The Imperial Knight kit alone shat on the PP colossal during that big hype phase. Privater Press has an insanely wowish steampunk shit, flavored for various countries or giant out of proportioned monsters.game. They are basically going off of their rules alone, because their models aren't anything to be proud of... not in the slightest.

As for AoS. Their main releases have been:

Stormcast: look bad in gold, much better in other colors. They actually look solid on table

Bloodbound: Actually pretty solid chaos release, a huge amount of stunning hero models

Fyreslayers: The dropped ball, just awful. But the Dragon riders are great models never the less, and that is half the release as well sooo...

IronJaws: Their best release so far. Absolutely awesome ork models.

Silver tower Tzeetch: Look stunning, even the throw away cannon fodder troops look marvelous

Sylvaneth: Hailed as one of the best GW releases this year, the Hunters look gorgeous as fuck.

With the exception of the Fyreslayers they really haven't fucked up their model releases. The dwarven steampunk release in October will also be interesting as it can heavily one up PP's shit with more interesting steampunk designs and what not, but we will have to see.

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>>49309249
>Defending these retards

>>49307517
Comparing GW miniatures and Infinity models is difficult, because one is heroic and the other realistic scale.

The Infinity has better proportions and details, but its small as shit 90% of the time and needs to be expertly painted to get anywhere otherwise it looks lacking.

GW models, even with a simple Duncan level paintjob, always look good due to the exaggerated scales of their models, allowing more personality to their models.

Infinity also simply cant compete with GW on the Wargame market as they are a skirmish game. Smaller model counts, no heavy armor save for shock troop mechs, and rough room for expansion due to the way the command structure works.

Is it one of the best individually model wise? Yes. Is it able to come close to the GW sized scales of battle? Hell no. Its limited to skirmish. Its lore is also pretty tame...


>>49307608

X-Wing is a fleet based game, that is all it really has going for it besides the Starwars license. Fleet based games have been around for a while, many have tried to dominate that sector, but its not complex enough to actually threaten the wargames market as it isn't a miniature wargame, its just the evolution of hero clicks.

Battletech is long dead...

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>>49309364
>Posting EndTimes models, not even AoS models but carried leftovers from WHFB
>"Hurrdurr I know what I'm talking about"
>Not posting the other way to build them, which makes them look perfectly chaos
>Just going on the GW site, finding something you don't like and spamming it

Its like you don't even know what your doing...

>>49309529
Not the guy who posted the first lot, but these look pretty awful too. Weirdly posed and overdetailed. They look like someone started drawing them and never fucking stopped.

No kings of war?

>>49308876
Early being key word

I played WHFB and 40K for years. Moved through malifaux, warmahordes, battletech and anima. Now on heavy gear and infinity.

GW has a pokemon ratio: most of the new models are garbage and look like shit, but every few one is a golden shining god. It's a shit show, though: You have a beautiful mini packed with a handful of guys wearing fake muscle suits. shit is awful.

Warmahordes is about the same. They have more good models compared to GW, but I'd say lack the handful of just absolutely stunning ones.

Infinity has had almost no bad releases in years. The early stuff is garbage, yes. I own a handful of first edition minis and, fuck, they are bad compared to the new stuff, but you know what? First ed inifnity faces are on par with some of the shit GW craps out now, and current infinity models, in my opinion, flatten any modern GW models the way GW kills game balance: dramatically.

>>49309664
kings of war just looks like all the mediocre traits of late 9's GW rolled into one turdfest. Heard the rules are solid, but I can't keep my vomit down looking at their models sadly. I guess I've outgrown campy Heavy Metal style shit.

pretty much everything mantic makes looks crappy to me, save a few one shots. The plague big guy looks badass, but I feel like i have a shitload of garbage models now that i split a dread zone kickstarter with someone.

>>49309837
Most of them look like crap, but the models aren't married to the game in the slightest.

>>49309529
Wow, those look like shit.

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>>49309529
Those aren't even AoS released models... those came out before the switch to sigmar.

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>>49309439
I disagree. I block and wash my Infinity and it looks way better than anything I can make do with in GWs range.

I'm also not sure if larger model counts is really an argument for better models. Maybe you are further away so you don't look as closely?

>>49309664
Game is fine. Models are crap. Fluff is crap.

Good way to use WHFB models but is still a dying product.

>>49309956
GW really struggles with organic stuff. Those don't look like treemen, they look like weird plastic guys with bows that make no sense.

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>>49309956
How does GW get BTFO by raging heroes?

Sad.

>>49309529
>perfectly chaos

If that is perfect chaos, then chaos is terrible.

>>49308380
Until someone tells you that the smaller guy is supposed to have launched out of the big one.

>>49307517
Fucking rule comparision doesn't work.
Most games have vastly differen rules, gamewise infinity and x-wing have not much besides rolling dice and moving figure around.
So fuck you.

>>49309969
Those look awesome. Is hat Infinity?

>>49309664
KoW is probably the best ruleset for rank and file out there. It plays better than any WHFB edition and allows you to play any fantasy minis you want as long as size and base size match. Mantic's minis are comparable to 15yo GW minis in terms of quality, but cheaper and you're not limited to them at all. The fluff is basic and relatively grounded, with some major players but leaving a lot of options and plot hooks for your dudes.

The balance is near perfect using tourney comp pack, with goblins or vermin (ratmen) being probably slightly ahead.

>>49310034
Becuse RH is just lifting the old fantasy dryad design and making the head unnecessarily bigger? Shit armjoints too.

>>49310240
Eh, ranged, flyers and especially flying monsters are way op.

Shambling and surge is a stupid way to handle undead too.

>>49310360
With the tourney rules fliers go from OP to good since they lose flying after one hit.

Shambling and surge is pretty fine considering the cost. It's far from being OP, all things considered.

>>49310034
These are better then treemen?
Raging heroes makes the fucking best mantacore, an amazing demonprince, and an Alarriele that is mindblowing but you post their shitty one pose metal shit?

>>49309969
From 4 feet away all of that detail is pretty much gone, your left with blotches of color.

Infinity models have detail that is way to tiny for a game where your walking around a table, always 4 ft from your model eyesight wise.

The models aren't bad, quite the contrary but they struggle to look good from a distance.

Model count matters for game diversity. 40k can be played in Killteam, to small engagements, to massive 10/15 tablesized apocalypse. Infinity can only compete with one of those scales.

>>49310012
What game makes actually good treemen models then? These seem like the best on the market?

>>49310525
Having seen people playing infinity, the small scale and the desity of scenery does wonder with the better level of details.

I've never seen a game of infinity looking bad on the tabletop, despite the models being sometimes painted in base+wash.

>>49310012
Weren't there good LOTR ent models ?

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>>49310615
Eh, not really. The only good one was treebeard.

These just look like random branches

>>49310688
Wew.

>>49309249
>Its rules are pretty straightforward and solid for the most part. Its terribleness is mostly a meme.
I have read the rules. They're bland and lack any depth. You could have the same tactical factor by putting random toys on the table, inventing special moves on the fly and rolling as many dice as cool the move sounds. I guess it can be entertaining, but it's not exactly what I call a good ruleset. It can't be compared with any of the others on the list, not even 40k (which is flawed and unbalanced as all fuck but at least has an actual structure and depth).

>The fluff of Warmahordes is pretty awful
I wouldn't say that. It's pretty original in avoiding or subverting typical fantasy tropes.
AOS on the other hand had the chance to deliver an innovative take on 'weird' fantasy-punk, but instead just gave us Archaon wank, Sigmarine wank and boring, uninspired reiterations of old stuff chewed and spat out again with a bland 'interplanar chaos' flavour.
As for AOS miniatures,

>Stormcast
CAD sigmarines which will likely appeal to those who think basic space marines should be the paragon to all wargaming miniatures, I'd say. Their warriors look all the fucking same. Their drakes have clearly too many chromosomes. The Celestant Prime (Sailor Sigmar) looks about as bored as I'm bored looking at him, with the most anti-dynamic pose one could possibly conceive for a flying model, a fancy dress and a whirlwind of unnecessary shit going on under his feet that is probably supposed to look ethereal and majestic and instead just seems a spiral of trash. The only piece that could actually look good is the Stardrake, except for the fact it has chunky paws, an horrible-looking and cumbersome armor, wings designed by someone who clearly doesn't know shit about anatomy, and what should be a mighty hero riding the beast that's actually in a position from which he can't see shit or reach shit with his hammer.

[...]

>>49309249
>>49311158
>Bloodbound
Their new releases (excluding the End Times Skullwrathblood Reapermongereavers) aren't that bad ,but they still suffer from unnecessary over-detailed design. Basically, champions and heroes are so overfilled with frills and ornaments that they become simply boring to look at. They just lose personality. They are to sculpting details what a bucketful of glitter is to makeup.

>Fyreslayers
We all agree they're disgusting.

>Ironjaws
The actual greenskins are good. The beasts they ride are a joke. Seriously, I can't get over how someone could have made their models so detailed and yet so eyewateringly ugly.

>Tzeentch
They're good and inventive, but the way you write about them makes it seem like you haven't ever seen a really good sculpt outside GW.

>Sylvaneth
Design is cool. Everything that should look like wood looks instead like warped foil. So much for being good at details, GW seems unable to do textures anymore and instead does flat surfaced curved weirdly and with jutting edges. The ideas are good, the execution is a little clumsy.

>>49311158
>Confirmed for actually never reading AoS rules besides 4 pages.

Literally the entire game's complexity and interesting aspects is drawn from the unit's individual warscrolls and the interactions they have with each other. You wouldn't know that however, seeing as you clearly gave the system the barest glance.

>It's pretty original in avoiding or subverting typical fantasy tropes.
Tell that to your british lightning empire, your Russian frozen shit, and who can forget the Ad Mech meets necron buddies...

>"I don't like Stormcasts because they look the same"
From a warmachine player, where every jack is basically the same stumpy robot, just with a different weapon.

kek

>>49311397

>unnecessary over-detailed design
A pointless catch word that really means nothing. Any model can be over detailed, hell the majority of the Warmachine line is overdetailed, same with Infinity if we go with such a broad definition.

>Sylvaneth
Design is cool. Everything that should look like wood looks instead like warped foil. So much for being good at details, GW seems unable to do textures anymore and instead does flat surfaced curved weirdly and with jutting edges. The ideas are good, the execution is a little clumsy.

Lets see better treemen products then... surely another company does them better?

>>49307517
Malifaux
>It's got cards!
>Kind of weird horror/steampunk/fantasy setting
>Redneck goblins
>nobody remembers Malifaux

>>49307517
Pan-Oceania isn't America. The only notable faction with an American presence is Aridana, and that also includes Frenchmen, Scots, Russians, and Cossacks.

>>49311904
They're the "America" of the setting. But I think that explanation is too generous to OP.

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>>49309364
kek

>>49311594
>Lets see better treemen products then... surely another company does them better?
Ragging Heroes.

>>49311939
I kind of get the feeling that OP just looked at the models and thought "Rich assholes with a large military budget? Must be America!"

>>49311594
>Confirmed for inability to cope with the fact that even after a critical reading, AOS is still a pretty bland game
You shouldn't take this too personally, Anon.

>Tell that to your british lightning empire, your Russian frozen shit, and who can forget the Ad Mech meets necron buddies...
We're talking about a setting that has:
>Steampunk and magitech without being an annoying Victorian fuckfest with random gears and top hats
>Fantasy battles that combine trench warfare, magitech power armor, huge robots and monsters, spellcasters and epic heroes
>Original, interesting Elves
>Original, interesting Trolls
>Original, interesting beastmen
>A setting BBEG that actually has an understandable reason for doing what he's doing rather than just "Lel, I'm memetic evil" or "Lel, I'm edgy and misunderstood"
>He also does this while being a dragon, a lich, an eldritch abomination and commanding an army of undead mechanical pirates and witches
>The other setting BBEG which has his own other understandable reason for doing his evil shit and has another original army theme
Etc, etc.
And the worst you could find is that some factions are inspired from real world cultures? Wow, shit setting it is.

>From a warmachine player, where every jack is basically the same stumpy robot, just with a different weapon.
Warmachine is the wargame I've played the less, right after (from least played to most played) Infinity, AT43, AOS, Confrontation, Hell Dorado, Horrorclix, D&D minis, Warhammer Fantasy and Warhammer 40k.
As for your point, in-faction jacks tend to look a bit similar, which makes sense considering they're different iterations of the same chassis, but still they're far more distinguishable than Stormcast stuff. And they have very different designs from faction to faction. But I have to admit I don't really love Warjacks designs; I much prefer human troops and beasts.

>kek
The kek is on you, AOS fanboy.

>>49311594
>same with Infinity if we go with such a broad definition
Lolno, actually Infinity is straight opposite to GW modern direction, all details on CB models placed well and always looks in right places.

>>49307608

>Prepainted
>a plus

You're joking, right?

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>>49311594
>unnecessary over-detailed design
>A pointless catch word that really means nothing. Any model can be over detailed, hell the majority of the Warmachine line is overdetailed, same with Infinity if we go with such a broad definition.
Your failure to understand this expression doesn't undermine its validity.
See this shit? This shit is unnecessarily chiseled making all these refined ornaments perfectly worthless since any visual depth or interest point of the model is drown in them. They're pointless and painful to look at. And it's even worse if you count that apparently GW can't do textures and poses anymore, so it's just bad poses with flat surfaces overflowing with flat details. Do you understand it now?


>Lets see better treemen products then... surely another company does them better?
Some of us can tell a miniature is bad even without another miniature of the exact same subject from another company showing how much better it could be. Do you really want to give the impression to be too stupid for this basic feat of critical thinking?

>>49307517
>Miniature wars
GW: Aliens
Warhammer playerbase: Advent coalition
FFG: Commander (former best weapon of aliens, which working against them now).
Warmahordes: Bradford (literally spiritual leader of resistance).
Infinity: Lilly Shen (cute asian girl who making awesome stuff).
Kings of War: Dr. Tygan.

>>49311994

These >>49310034 are awful. Completely less detail in almost every way They don't even look like they are made out of wood, just giant flesh monsters painted brown... Try better because if that is "good" to you... holy shit

>>49308403
>I don't have experience with MkIII yet, though.

Mk3 is still suffering from edition growing pains and the meta hasn't settled yet.

There are some horrible, unfun skew lists to play against and some overpowered stuff, but even with some of the terrible balance decisions for early Mk3, the tournament scene is more varied (in lists represented) than 40k ever has been, and we're expecting a balance overhaul at the end of the year.

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>>49312879
>They don't even look like they are made out of wood,
So as AoS, but at least they didn't use the same sculpts for all armies (archers use the same pose as sigmarines shooters)

>>49307517
>AoS
but the ruleset is almost nonexistent, plainly doesn't work RAW (try to measure distances from flying models) and the balance can be thrown into the air the moment someone spams shooting and stackable abilities.

>>49312296
Chaos is supposed to be baroque as fuck.

Dunno if they still do, but they used to actually use "baroque" to describe the aesthetic for Chaos stuff in marketing.

I definitely think the Sigmarines are awful, and the proportions for some of the new Khorne stuff is bad, but... that is a baroque dude on a baroque horse, and is exactly what it's supposed to be.

>>49312062
>As for your point, in-faction jacks tend to look a bit similar, which makes sense considering they're different iterations of the same chassis, but still they're far more distinguishable than Stormcast stuff.

Yes, but Stormcast are one army of many in a much larger and diverse faction. Order ISNT just Stormcasts, far from it. Jacks are the basis of Warmachines fucking game. Stormcasts looking all the same is a duh, just like all Orks, elves, and chaos does, but there is diversity in the game. Warmachine is a game where the centerpiece models all look so stunningly similar. Its an eyesore at best.

>>49312296
What the fuck, All miniature companies, Infinity, Warmachine, Gamesworkshop and more have insane amounts of detail.

>unnecessarily chiseled
You mean modeled right? Your making up words trying to sound smart you know, claiming something as stupid as "Its too detailed for me" is stupid nonsense. Of course detail draws the fucking eye, that is what its supposed to do, especially in the case of chaos models... since that has always been the esthetic, crazy mutated warriors, erratic and should I say "chaotic" designs.

I mean, its clear you have shit taste, but seriously... stop pretending you know how model design works... its not working.

>>49312944
>Being this desperate
>Being this stupid
>"Archers shouldn't be posed like archers"
>They aren't anywhere near the same pose anyway
I mean... holy shit.........don't go full retard...

>>49307517
After playing a few games of AoS. It definitely does NOT have a solid ruleset. It is basically line up your guys and smash them into each other the game. Multiwound troop and elite choices rule AoS right now. Magic does next to nothing, 1 wound models are throwaway trash, and big creatures are not nearly killy enough.

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>>49312296
Well aren't you the expert to so clearly see what us plebians cannot.

>>49310034

>my first zbrush model

>>49311944
fuck ubisoft for ignoring this guys sketches and making HOMMV generic fantasy

>>49311158
>the Stardrake
That shit litteraly looks like a megablocks dragon I had when I was a kid.

>>49312944
Sigmarine archers can't actually see what they are shooting.

>>49310410
Never heard of these tourney rules. Stupid design to have completely different rules for tournaments.

I didn't say surge was op, just that it doesn't feel very undead to have them spin around and charge people faster than a light horseman.

>>49310449
Its crap, but still better than GWs Kurnoth Krap.

>>49310525
Infinity looks good from far away and up close.

40 looks OK from far away and shit up close.

I know which one I would pick.

And you can play Infinity at a huge level, and it is just a stupid and unenjoyable as a 40k apocalypse battle.

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>>49310548

>>49311158
this.

>>49307608

X-Wing
>started off strong
>each wave adds more power creep
>each wave adds more complexity to the game
>you are required to buy ships to factions you do not play to get upgrade cards you need to be competitive

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>>49311939
WHO DA FUCK YOU CALLIN 'MERICAN?

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>>49312073
Infinity uses actual bodyarmor as the basis for a lot of their designs.

It makes it a lot cleaner and pleasing to the eye.

>>49312296
Jesus. Where is his head?

>>49310088
I have the iguana models. The heavy infantry looks like it would fit if you compare them, with the infantry's legs in the iguanas thighs. thats why it has fuckhuge thigh armor, to fit the pilot.

Only thing thats questionable is the helmet, which would be awkward.

>>49312912
Being better than 40k is essentially meaningless.

WM has gotten worse with the edition change. It was my main game, and I am on the verge of quitting.

>Worst fluff. mary sue 'murica beating up Chinese people, Japanese people and assorted Asians. Later become 'murica beating up communist negros (CSJ), communist red indians (CJF) while the scandanavian-red indians get absorbed in. Very 1970s centric, very racist, very out of touch. Its like something your drunk, redneck, racist uncle will come up with

I am disgusted this is on /tg/ GO FUCK YOURSELF WITH A BATTLEAXE.

>>49313181
I'm not sure there is any real decision making in AoS.

After playing 10+ games I could just write down what I am going to do at the start and go drinking while my opponent plays himself.

>>49314640
X Wing really needs a 2nd edition.

Could fix turrets and arc dodgers to remove the rock paper scissors bullshit. Could also make it a more interesting game in core rules rather than in special rules.

>>49310234
yes sir. Yu Jing starter, just came out.

>>49310548
GW made a pretty bitching giant treeman if I recall.

>>49310525
I question your eyesight, your taste or your local paintjobs if a model looks like a blob at gaming distance. With half decent color selection and a little skill, the models look amazing from play distance. The studio paintjobs are always a bit over the top and intense because they are display figs.

I will grant that infinity can't compete with wargames, but to be honest, any game with models this size doesn't belong in apocalypse scale. Shit takes years to play. Kill team is the best way to play 40K, but I guess I'm a bit biased since my FLGS has rally obnoxious FERTEHEMPREZOR kinda 40k'ers that get mad if one of 16 tables is being used for something besides 40k or magic the gathering. God forbid.

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>>49314756
Looking at mine right now, the helmet is the same size. Looks like it would fit perfectly IMO.

They are good at that type of attention to detail.

>>49311939
Honestly, I'm not sure if this is stupid or not. Does this mean every faction that has a loose 'it doesn't suck to live here and we aren't in the stone age tech wise' theme is the 'america' faction, regardless of setting?

It's funny, because USAriadna is way mroe 'american': reasonably techy for their main faction, but full of a bunch of stubborn, tough assholes who basically don't take no for an answer and are notoriously tough to kill thanks to a combination of those traits and just strapping a shit ton of armor to every dude they can.

But no, american factions are blue, amirite?

>>49313141
>>Being this desperate
>>Being this stupid
Dat projections
>>They aren't anywhere near the same pose anyway
Dat denial.

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>>49308876

Absolutely, early Infinity models are potato as hell.

But they've gotten a lot better since N2 and by N3 they're now all CAD sculpted and pretty slick, to scale, and they've been establishing a stronger theme between factions to set them apart stylistically.

>>49314878
if you look carefully at where the chestplate of the operator is, and where it is on the iguana, it doesn't look like the operator has much room to, well, have a head. Add that to the operators head being a bit small, partially because it's SUPPOSED to look recessed into the armor, and you have literally every complaint I have about it. I converted my operator, but holy christ is the duo of models overall goddamn gorgeous. One of the best 'mecha' figures ever. I'm really excited for the lizard resculpt that will happen one day. Maybe soon...

>>49309439

X-Wing is squadron-scale. Armada is fleet scale (roughly). Squadron is to Fleet like Skirmish is to Platoon: lower model counts with an emphasis on smaller battles, higher unit granularity, and usually a faster pace.

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>>49310688

They did make a better model.

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>>49314868
Infinity models are not ugly or bad in any case, but they are bland and boring.


Once you have try plastic multi part models. Anything else feels bad, when you can make your models really yours by simply posing them and bringing a lot of green stuff, dremel, sawing, good painting, etc.

Regardless of balance and models 40k has something the competition is lacking.
The system itself works for small squad games, skirmish, large, and retardedly large battles.

Can you picture playing apocalypse 40k games with infinity or warmachine rules?


If anything GW should do a bloody marketing research. They can't base their entire business in sales alone. Otherwise we end with stuff like 15 years old Sister of Battle models, and AoS. Or killing specialist games.
I can't understand the logic behind meka animu huge action figure robots of 40k. Expensive, rather ugly. Somehow I picture some GW corporate commander seeing the sales money value of their robots and comparing it to some random ork trukk and going: "Holy shit we make lots of cash money with a single robot! Let's make more! "

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>AoS: Solid Rules
>40K: Bad rules
What the actual fuck are you talking about. 40K has an actual ruleset whereas AoS is worse than even shit like Relic Knight

>Infinity's lack of large centerpieces is somehow a bad thing in a world when companies push giant display pieces rather than game pieces
>MK3 makes it the most balanced wargame
I will assume that you are just taking everyone for a ride. Polite sage.

>>49315106
>but they are bland and boring
Much better than SuperHeavy Robot#1, SuperHeavy Robot#2, Super Heavy Robot#3 etc and etc.

>>49315106
>Anything else feels bad
Nope, good design and poses feels good.

>>49310548
Malifaux Waldgeists and the Mysterious Emissary

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>>49315205
>nah
Yep

>>49315106
>
Once you have try plastic multi part models. Anything else feels bad, when you can make your models really yours by simply posing them and bringing a lot of green stuff, dremel, sawing, good painting, etc.
I came from multipart plastic models. Ill grant GW does them the best on the market besides maybe dreamforge (i think they were called), but the models are still mediocre overall. You claim that making a mdoel yours is the highlight of plastic? Why not just take it a step further. Everyone has a converted, mediocre looking space marine hero made out of basic grunt bits. Fuck, I had an entire chaos marine army, every figure converted. Plague marines growing hand sculpted mushrooms. Sonic death guitars, all of it. But converting metal... That's really fun, a real test of skill, using all those same techniques. Using ease of conversion for plastic is like saying lego's are superior to scale model kits.

And to be honest, like I said. I think 40K apocalypse is unweildy and boring. I'd rather play a game that handles that batter. Dropship commander, flames of war, Napoleonic wars and firestorm invasion come to mind. While I do love me large scale wargames, models with infantry on 30mm bases take too long to move. So, no, while 40k has a 'working' game mode of apocalypse, I can't see infinity working well on that scale. warmahordes on that scale just gives me diarrhea thinking about it.

This kinda model scale suits skirmish best. more than that, scale should go down. I'm a firm believer of that.

>>49314836

The issue with X-Wing is that they needlessly complicate things with Wave releases.

Make the new ships, maybe some new upgrade cards.

But for fucks sake we dont need a new mechanic in every god damn wave!

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>>49315269
Yep

>>49307608
>Battletech
>Fluff is bad because marry sue faction

>40k is good
>Ultramarines

You dumb fucking bastard.
Also it's not space America, it's space Britain, which is why they have a planet called Avalon.
And FFR are greatest team

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Malifaux is pretty slick. The improvement between 1e and 2e was massive. 100% are multi part plastic, the game is well balanced between factions, and it's ad hoc nature makes it so that it isn't very list dependent.

>>49311835
They're pretty specifically cajun goblins when they're not copycatting the humans of other factions

>>49307517
>literally dont notice the tits until i read the bottom text

im too far gone.

>>49315224
>But converting metal... That's really fun, a real test of skill, using all those same techniques.
>a real test of skill, using all those same techniques.
>a real test of skill
>skill


Autism much? Kind of miss the point there. He clearly counted out the need to actually bring the green stuff, dremel and putting to personalise a model.

Anyone that has been in this hobby learns, how to work with metal. There is little skill.

Let's grab picture related as an annoying example of metal models. The amount of pinning, bending, putting, sanding, etc to make this model look "decent" is no skill, just patiences. I'm sure there are worst examples of metal models.

Converting metal is basically like working with any other material but slower. Enjoying the painful and long process does not make it better or skillful. You are just a masochist, and that is ok.

>>49311835
The card system is pretty boss actually. I love me my bellcurves and randomness, but the deck gives you a feeling of control that really lends a neat feel to the game. Also, new models are sexy. Its not bad for a skirmish game. Fits its niche of weird nicely.

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>>49315178
Ok lets be reasonable beside maybe the Wraithknight. Some people like the knights, no idea why

We can all agree GW super heavy animu meka robot line is pants on head retarded ugly.

>>49315220
Bike dudes, yes better than the marine bike, not saying much basically the marine bike has been the same bloody model for like what almost 2 decades now? Nothing to brag home about though.

>>49315319
Cool, generic as fuck still.

Dreamforge plastic, GW plastic and Statuesque metal heads.

Simple kitbash that >>49315224 hates so much. There personality with basically zero advanced skills required

So we can argue that the games are good or bad, but in terms of sheer popularity how are they ordered?

>>49315220
>>49315319
They're definitely nice sculpts, but they aren't exactly "inspired". Overdesigned tacticool modern scifi armor with tons of little plates/knobs/seams is playing it pretty safe

>>49315774
While those may be decent models, they are bad at being SoB, and their pose doesn't come anywhere near the Tiger's.

>>49315774
>Ok lets be reasonable beside maybe the Wraithknight
And other sueper heavy robots.
>the marine bike has been the same bloody model for like what almost 2 decades now
They still costs as modern models.
>, generic as fuck still.
So as Warhammer models.

>>49315774
>There personality
Where?

>>49315825
http://icv2.com/articles/markets/view/35145/top-5-non-collectible-miniature-games-spring-2016
With Infinity, Malifaux, and AoS trailing behind.

>>49315844
>Overdesigned tacticool modern scifi armor with tons of little plates/knobs/seams
TOP FUCKING KEK, it's still not overdesigned, unlike MMO-deatalisation of modern GW models.
>>49315907
>http://icv2.com/articles/markets/view/35145/top-5-non-collectible-miniature-games-spring-2016
>dat FFG gangbang

>>49307736
fuck guild ball and blood bowl

the other one has p great minis

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>>49315851
Excellent Inquisitorial Personal army.

>>49315319
That tiger? Better model yes. Pose wise, not sure what is your point. One model is to emphasize the anime quick and mobile. So a dynamic pose is required. One is made to be a bulky armour, so a dynamic anime pose would be strange.


Would love to see a comparison between standard trooper A and B between different games and companies. Actually well done.

Like all in basic white paint, with a quick black wash to enhance the details. No photoshop to make the models look good. All line up under a clean background.

Is this thread like a console war equivilent for tg? Kindly fuck off.

>>49315985
They aren't even good at conveying their bulkiness. The poses have them in the middle of doing absolutely nothing. They aren't even aiming or doing anything that would indicate that they are in the middle of battle. Whereas the Tiger knows what he is trying to do.

>>49315982
hey why is that? don't you like them sports games?

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>>49316031
You have an erection for infinity models. We get you. You can like other things to anon.

>>49315637
you kids need a new attack word to not understand.
>>49315774
You must have missed the part about dreamforge. I do hope they get to a game eventually, I have a few squads of their dudes. I used to love marine plastics, too, but they look so bland to me now. Regardless, I accept that I reacted awful hard. Thinking about it more and in respect to the responses, I can see the appeal of multipart and pose figs, when you are talking about making an army of 60+ marines. When dealing with a skirmish game, mono-pose metal and resin models are less deterring because you only need one or two of each fig, typically.

I still stand by GW plastics being ok at best. Dreamforge came out of nowhere with a kickstarter and made several absolutely bitching infantry type models... Though to be fair, they suffer from one of the big problems I see in multipart kits, which is that poses are either same-y, or energetic poses are limiting and or awful, examples being plastic raptors and a shit load of the newer GW stuff.

One thing GW does better than almost any company I know, though, is they have clean casting with plastic. I have to hand it to them that mold shift basically does not exist in GW plastic. Thats awesome really.

And while >>49315637 needs a new attack word, somehow he proved a point to me. I remember some old multipart metal figures that were kind of a bitch to build. Old heavy gear models come to mind. Poseable with crisp detail, but loved to break apart. How he managed to type something that gave me this Epiphany while he was gargling his dads nuts also impresses me.

>>49316095
That's not an argument, but OK. I just wanted to point out that saying that the Dreamforge conversions being "Less generic" than the Tiger is just wrong.

>>49316106
Where exactly does plastic mold shifting happen outside of GW? Even Mantic's hard plastic stuff never has that issue. Are you sure that you aren't confusing some other company's resin or restic figures as being made out of plastic?

>>49316031
I must defend dreamforge figs on this front: the original models look like terminators except not silly.
>>49315985
I have to agree: it'd be cool to see a sortof.. mini swingers event. I mean, Mantic is already basically making NOT40k and NOTfantasy, so we know what the space marines look like for them. Dreamforge, I think, tackles power armor and 'guardsmen' style troopers with some god damn class, their infantry being a pretty easy comparison (though the titan they made does indeed pale to the GW knight).

I'd love to see corvus belli make a space marine, an eldar and a guardsman. Perhaps a Dreadnought. In turn, I'd liek to see GW's bork up a father knight, tikbalang and fusilier. Keep it easy, all in one faction for them.

>>49316106
To be fair, this is 4chan. Autism and sperging out of control is expected.

GW models are mostly shit, but work when needing 20+ models for a game.

Skirmish games, sure stay with the metal mono pose, but being like some Infinity players that say their models are the second coming of space jesus, when in reality there is nothing much to brag home about.

>>49316144
I've seen it. Typically with monopose figs. Usually with softer plastic, too, but I've seen it in hard plastic. From wargames factory, iirc, being the only multipart example I have.

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>>49316202
Mantic's designs are pretty different though. It's just that the rules (Especially for KoW) blatantly let you use 40K figures.

>>49316236
So it's actually not a huge problem outside of GW? Glad to hear.

>>49316117
Well we are talking of power armour here. Everything is generic at this point.

>>49315453
Not sure if you were around during then, but hanse is heavily based off regan. Also, there's the whole yellow peril Japanese manufacturing off shoring scare that is definitely heavily worked into the setting. Steiner is very British, and davion definitely modeled after America. The America mantle was muddied up, and arguably taken up by the Republic later on, which itself is a Davion puppet.

Ultramarines is very Mary sue, but there are so many factions and fluff that you could actually read through and understand the entire 40k narrative without reading anything Ultramarines. They always win, but they're never in any important fights beyond battle of mccrage, which in the grand scheme, is still relatively minor.

Whereas Davion is always in your face, and always the main character in everything, from the 4th succession war to the clans, to civil war, to RoS.

>>49308125
>how weird GWs proportions ar

It's essentially Hero-scale.

Larger heads and hands. Designed to be more of an eye draw instead of an accurate mini.

>>49315106
Mohawk man has absolutely partrician taste.

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I love collecting 40k models


but I hate the game.

Only faction I play in Infinity is Ariadna since they are the only good one

OP here. I'm sorry about how many of the ex. WHFB players feel about AoS, but I try to be as neutral as possible. I agree a few models are bad, like wrathmongers and fireslayers, but the vast majority is really the new GW standard, and they have got that going for them. Just look at the new sylvaneth range. Asthetic is one thing, but their detail is unbeatable.

Main Rules are very basic, but warscrolls gives it much more depth, so the game really is driven by unit special rules. Balance is good, because the game is simple, and currently small. I know a lot of you remember the glory days of the 6th, but lots of us remember the terrible days of 8th with its unbeatable daemon army, elf rampage, and terrible unbalance.

Fluff is OK, and by that, I mean it's mediocre. Very generic fantasy, but not horrible. By horrible, I mean battletech horrible. It's like a general fantasy novel you fish out of the bargain bin, it's not wheel of time, but at least it's not twilight.

>>49316275
Steiner is German though.
In name and philosophy. I mean I guess steiner has some British things going, but I don't think it's kinda a mix

If anyone is American wouldn't it be Marik? With their freedoms and aerospace based military.

There's definitely the yellow peril thing going on, especially early on.

>>49316497
>Rules are good
By what standard. 8th? AoS has inferior rules to every other skirmish game in the market, don't kid yourself.

I just find it weird /tg/ turns into /v/ whenever AoS is mentioned.

I havent seen it this bad since the furry days

>>49316241
I dunno, to me mantic looks very GW. I know there will always be a 'power armor=space marine' thing, but its not that. The whole company looks like GW from an alternate 1990. Granted, they are a bit different, they aren't direct rip offs... but I can't look at them without thinking that GW could have made any or all of these figures, but I guess that's kindof what they were aiming for. Combine that with how many ways can you really make NEW fantasy wargames, and I guess maybe I have an unfair bias, but... Yeah, mantic feels like the B movie version of GW to me.

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>>49316570
>B-Movie
That isn't a bad comparison in a different way. Their undead are very much a take on The Evil Dead. Some of their goblin models are straight out of labyrinth. And even models like their Naiads are said to have an uncanny resemblance to He-Man characters. They are like GW if GW took influence from a bunch of corny movies rather than Moorcock.

I would definitely say that their Sci-Fi game is a different beast though. Their enforcers look much closer to Infinity's Janissaries than Space Marines, especially the helmets.

>>49316570
Mantic is just truescale 40k. None of that giant hands, heads and squat legs. Asthetic is definitely 40k style though

>>49315941
> to design in a manner that is excessively complex or that exceeds usual standards (as of sturdiness or safety)
>still not overdesigned

ok boo

>>49316928
Not the anon you're responding to, but the model in >>49315319 is definitely not overdesigned. Maybe it's the paint job that's confusing to the eye? Because what I'm seeing is a lot of smooth, flat surfaces, interspersed with moments of detail.

I'd put it as more detailed than your standard GW Space Marine miniature, but a world less complicated than >>49312296

As to whether it is excessively complex...not really? I mean, again - this might be where the paint job is throwing the eye. The painted stars, triangles and stripes might be making you see a more complicated model than actually exists. This is a pretty common phenomenon - you make bland models look better with a great paintjob, or you make a terrible paint job look better with a detailed model.

As for exceeding the usual standards of miniatures...again, not really. If you're used to Heroscale miniatures, you might see it as finnicky and too small for the level of detail it contains, but for a Truescale miniature it's pretty much in the middle of the ball park.

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>>49315774

>Cool, generic as fuck still.

You know, I've seen this used a lot when it comes to Infinity. But if we compare them to miniature lines from goddamn everywhere, Infinity might as well be unique. If we look over all of manga, anime, and scifi then yes we get some flavors of generic, or at least we see where each model got its influence, but from a tabletop perspective no one is making these models.

But I also understand the argument. I feel somewhat the same about Firestorm Armada, not hugely jazzed about individual faction designs because they don't seem to have a design that really resonates with me or catches my attention. So I guess I can understand the feeling, even if there's not many model lines like FSA's. Maybe instead of "generic" we simply mean they don't have a design that really catches our attention.

>>49317065
It/they belong to a visual tradition that is long enough at this point to seem "normal" (as most of them just look like hypermuscular versions of Samus Aran) but all the little bits and bobs are over the top from a design standpoint. I'd be the last one to argue that GW minis are "better" on those terms, or any others, many of them definitely count too.

I want guildball to be popular enough to have a thread on /tg/, anyone else? First time in a long time I'm excited to play games.

>>49317480
I like Guildball. It is my second game after Infinity right now.

People keep talking about the customizability of GW models, but somehow, after all that customizing, and making every pose a unique snowflake, every space marine army looks the same.

>>49317480
Me too but until I have money for a couple of starters I can't do a thing to aport for a thread.

>>49317690
Thats where I want to be but I don't have enough terrain for an interesting infinity game. One of the reasons I love guildball you can use minimal or even no terrain. What you use for infinity terrain?

>>49307517
I'll be honest, Infinity and Warmachine are better, both game wise and miniature wise in infinity, gamewise only for Warmachine. They definetly have lots of pros over 40k and AoS in general. Infinity models are gorgeous, and are a treat to paint, and their detail blows 40k out of the water, while they nail squad basef combat. Warmachine is better balanced, and better mechanically speaking, and over all, does a great job of conveying the sort of combat they want; quick, brutal, clashes.

But, for what ever reason, they just seem lifeless to me, compared to 40k and WHFB. None of their factions have the character that the Warhammer games had. Oh sure, you have Nomads and Khadorians, but In the end, they just come off as shallow. Oh, and im not saying that GW lore is spectacular or deep or amazing, but there is a good reason why 40k and WHFB STILL has players coming to it, even after the rules have been shat on or when the setting been squated. They had a spirit, and a flare all its own, that continues to exist even as other games surpass it. I mean, look at the fan works: You have whole articles and wiki pages dedicated to up new fan-made factions within 40k, fuck, theres even a Wiki specifically made for Warhammer fanon. You have moutains of literature, some good, mostly bad, but still filled with a love of warhammer. Where are the homebrewed factions or fan made armies for warmachine? Or the fan-fiction stories for Infinity? There just seems to be some lack of story, or depth.

>>49318081
The correct answer is of course to not actually play anything made by GW, but enjoy the lore via the RPGs and novels.

>>49318081
>Cont.
I mean, take Space Marines for example: On the surface, they're just generic Super Soldiers. But, if you look a bit deeper, you find literally hundreds of different chapters and characters, each one fairly distinct from another, right down to the color scheme. Their closest proxy to Space Marines are the Military orders, and even than, they're just knights. Khador, Cyngar: compared to the vastness of 40k, these supposed nations just feel like sub-factions. Hell, the Khadorians already have a parallel; The Vostroyans would fit perfectly into them.

I will concede that the three most well done factions of Infinity, tALEPH, the Combined Army, and Aridana, do stand well on their own. But even then, doing things like cutting out the unit lore from your webstore makes the factions feel shallow; I mean, Yu Jing and PanO play different, for sure, but do they honestly /feel/ different? They're both mega-corps that rely on power armoured, high tech troops. Omly one has a asian flare, the other a more western flair. But at the end of the day, they're both Mega Corps. Haqqislam feels very much like a mish mash of units, and the overall theme really does not mesh well with its unit choices. Neither does the Nomads, as they feel like they could be part of any MegaCorp. The Combined gets its depth through the wide variety of units and overall intresting application of them. Aleph gives off a creepy, uncanny vally feeling, and its mysterious motives make it feel like both a ally and a threat; although, I would like to know more about how Aleph overall interacts with the other factions, given how powerful, yet restrained it is. Overall, Infinity is screaming out for their factions to be given depth and character, but simply lacks the ability to produce quality lore as fast as they produce factions for their game. Couple this with the lack of any compository of lore, such as Codex's and a Wiki, makes it hard to engage in the lore overall, outside of a few books

>>49318151

Essentially


You could argue without /tg/ 40k what have died long ago or atleast not be that big

>>49318248

I got into Infinity for Ariadna since im a 40k fag.

You got got random fuckers using old ass technology against these anime looking people not to mention units from modern militarys

>>49318248
I will give credit to Warmachine, however; their units are definetly unique to their retroslective faction. Khador mechs and units are big and bulky, Cyngar units are fancy and advanced, Cyrx are sleek and spooky, as they should be. Everything has a place, albeit in a very rigid way. I say rigid, due to the way that PP handles the lore; instead of focusing on the setting, Warmachine opts for the story narrative. And in this way, Warmachine suffers. Characters we grow attached to die, change, or even swap factions, with no player input. Even worse, they lack any sort of ability to build your own story officially. To simply put it, imagine 40k, but you can only used IC, and no generic heros.

But, If I were to propose a solution for each, I think it'd be simple enough to fix; for Infinity, releasing Army Specific books that contained lore, art and stories secluded to a single faction would go a LOOOONG way to fleshing out the setting as a whole. Imagine all the cool shit we'd get to learn about each faction, and how they function? Fuck, I'd even take Splatbooks for the RPG, so long as they actually compiled the lore into something well developed. Also, some sort of campaign system would go a long way to adding character to your run of the mill grunts.

As for Warmachine, this becomes a bit more tricky, and honestly, I cant really think of a solution. And I dont really feel the need to. Some people do enjoy the way Warmachine fluff progresses, and if they do, more power to them. But perhaps it should be possible to have a build your own warcaster, or something along those lines.

I think the real problem I have with playing warmachine is the fact that outside of tough, the enemies turn is completely non-interactive for you, they just move stuff and roll dice, and take your models off the table, which is not great when half the time you're there you do nothing at all, except maybe tell them what your defense or armour is
my tabletop ranking goes as such(incorporating both rules and models)
god tier:Malifaux, Infinity, DZC, Blood Bowl
good tier:HH/30K, Bolt Action, Beyond the Gates of Antares, 40k(when played with reasonable human being and painted armies)
meh tier:Kings of War, Whoremachine, Dystopian Wars, Firestorm Armada,
shit tier:tournament level 40k with unpainted armies/spehss mehreens painted one chapter being used as another chapter with better rules, age of smegmar

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>>49318295
Eh, thats true. But dig deeper into them; You have the distinct nations, of course, along with the Werewolves and Dog Soldiers, and the Super-Metal. But, than what? What is their history? Who are their leaders, their commanders of Reknown, their rites of war? What do they have to gain by resisting being absorbed into PanO, per say? Why do they want freedom and independence? What is the history of them and the Antipodes? How do they view the Dogsoldiers and their kind? How do fights between the Combined army and Aridana happen?

And why the fuck do Moblots look so dam comedic? Look at this cheeki breeky shrug.

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>>49318521

Competitive 40k is the biggest cancer on /tg/

>>49318527

Thats my problem with Infinity shit barely scratching the surface.

Apparently Antipodes hate flying but we didnt know this until duroc the paratrooper dogface was added.

Or the fact Ariadna dogfaces play in a violent sport called "Dogbowl"

Antipodes still cause trouble? Units like Spetnaz and Desperados come in yet Ariadna seems to use actual non human antipodes already

Are Wulfers onlt for Caledonia? or could we have USariadna/kazak ones?

We only have a few named units for each faction but what the fuck is up with them? Why does Van zant drop out of an airplane with an axe? Who the fuck is Isabelle Mcgregor? Does Duroc fuck Margret?

>>49318541
this is mostly true, and GW is only compounding the problem with WAACfags by putting out decurion detachments where there's no actual list building required, you just plug and play with their bullshit, overpowered formations designed to sell models
>>49318612
>why does van zant drop out of an airplane with an axe
because it's cool as shit, that's why

>>49318295
Also Coke-a-Cola a stronk.

>>49318634
And space marines absorb memories by eating brains; but at least GW thought up a reason for that to exist.

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>>49318634

I sadly still enjoy both Infinity and 40k.

I know some people hate the goofy scale but ehhhh they look cool on the table when you pretend to make a battle out of the models

>>49318527
I mean, guys, really? Like.. most of your questions are answered in the lore. Literally, all of your questions, and most of >>49318612
although some o his questions are abit more specific.

I mean, quite literally hundreds of pages of nothing but art and lore at this point, in N3 and human sphere books. I understand if you don't wanna buy the books as the rules ARE free, but, like... That's like asking "What is Cadia?" and "who is the emporer that these space guys are all about?"

>>49319083
This, especially with the RPG a lot of the setting is filled out. It isn't like 40K where mankind inhabits countless worlds and there isn't a solid sense of scale. There is a distinct set of planets that people live on, with each of those being explored. Saying that there isn't any lore just because Corvus Belli's isn't generous enough to include it in the FREE rules is just wrong.

>>49319083
Yet you literally awnsered none if my questions, and nor did you even tell me what book I could find them in. And its not like theres a wiki where I can learn about any of this.

>>49317802
Right now I have a really nice Warsenal table and I love it.

For a budget gamer though, use the CB terrain packs. Red Veil especially has a very cool, cheap and usable terrain set. 3 of the sets (there are 4 now to choose from) is easily enough for a full table and is like $25.

>>49318081
You are talking about age.

40k is deepish because it is 4x older than these other systems. Not to mention heavy nostalgia factors.

Infinity will get there, likely a lot faster than 40k did.

>>49318527
A lot of that fluff actually exists mate. Have you read the source books?

>>49318612
>Does Duroc fuck Margret?
Yes.

Carlos confirmed Duroc is super suave in his human form.

>>49319351
But Human Sphere N3 and Infinity RPG were both mentioned

>>49319467

Do they just kick his ass out of the plane to get him angry

>>49319430
Then i'll suppose I must simply wait. I really do hope Infinity gets better.

>>49319460
>>49319469
Really? I will admit, that I dont actually own the RPG book, and my lore experience is limited to the N2 rulebook. So if what your saying is true, than can you guys crack open your copies to awnser some of my questions? I know its a lot to ask, but I really am being honest here. I want infinity to have depth, and if you guys can give me some evidence that these books really do expand the universe, I'll have to take look.

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>>49318527
History is super long. Check Ariadna Sections of Core book and Human Sphere Source book.

They have fought several wars among themselves and the Cossacks have forced the Americans and Scots into an uneasy alliance. French are merchants mostly so are happy being the middlemen.

Having fought hard to subjugate the planet from the vicious alien antipodes, they aren't going to hand over their precious mineral wealth to Pan-O, YJ or anyone else. Any chance at peace was lost during the Commercial Conflicts when Mercenaries paid by Pan-O and YJ companies butchered entire villages to clear areas for strip mining.

Dogfaces and Wulvers are seen as second class citizens and highly disposable. There have been many riots and protests, and the Loup Garou are tasked with putting down any dogface insurrection with specially made viral rifles.

Ariadna, in order to gain full membership rights in the 0-12, contributed the Ariadnan Expedition Force, which was then stationed on Paradiso. Conflicts between the A.E.F. and Combined Army this occur constantly. Despite their low tech, the lack of cubes means the A.E.F. are the troopers of choice to resist attacks by the Avatars of the Evolved Intelligence, since they are invulnerable to sepsitor attacks.

Moblots are comedic because they are French.

>>49318612
Antipodes are still a major problem on the fronteir, despite that some have been enslaved and subsumed into the Ariadnan military.

Wulvers exist in every society as second class citizens. Many of the societies don't trust them with weapons.

Because Axes remove heads from bodies.

Read Dire Foes fluff for Izzies backstory.

>>49318527
>What do they have to gain by resisting being absorbed into PanO, per say?
Monopoly over one of the biggest Super Metal deposit on the whole sphere, thats what. Also full access to the best live action catgirl and halal girl porn in the entire sphere.

>Why do they want freedom and independence?
Because of their culture and pride of the past. Also, living with bunch of werewolves is generally better than being converted to corpo wagebot or an oppressed mindslave.

>And why the fuck do Moblots look so dam comedic?
Its 2005 handsculpted First Ed minis, what the fuck are you expect?

>>49309969
Pics or shut up. A pic of pro painted proves nothing

>>49318418
You have been able to do your dudes for a while
http://privateerpress.com/community/privateer-insider/insider-2-3-2014
Not being able to customize them statwise is done more for balance than anything. It isn't as if the setting is sparse either. Warmachine was made on a setting that was made to be a livable RPG environment first and foremost. There is a definite sense of scale and each faction's history is well documented. All you seem to say is that the settings for these games aren't good because there aren't any tie-in novels and the fan fiction isn't as well written. If you really want a wargame setting that has colossal amounts written for it, then play a historical or something.

>>49319649
To be honest, that last line was more of a joke. Moblots are actually my favorite models of the Aridana line, due to their mix of derp and tacticool. It gives them a lot of Character

>Best Detailed Miniatures
That's just not true. There are other companies that have figures with more detail and better poses. The reason that people like 40K figures is that they are customizable and you won't typically have identical twins when you have more than three of a model on a table. Things like shoulderpads and heads are interchangeable as well, so you can swap pieces in between kits to add even more variety. All the other big games don't really attempt to do the same thing.

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>>49319654
This is not a "pro" works but still good

>>49320014
Only the basic 40k stuff is like what you've said. A lot of the bigger, more expensive models are at the cutting edge of detail, Asthetic aside. The amount of details on knights and wraithlords are uncomparable, plus they're all entirely customisable too, which is a massive bonus given the level of detail.

Infinity is the number one crown prince because of shoddy older stuff, and no large centerpiece models. Many of their smaller stuff are arguably more detailed (Thanks to their lead-pewter compound), but it's due to its metal miniatures, nothing knight sized has been released. Even warmahordes has produced large (albeit very ugly looking, with very poor detail) models due to its shift to plastic.

It's tricky for corvus belli, because while their toxic metal compound is obviously what gives them their edge, it also hamstrings them from anything larger than a TAG. Plastic is very hard to get right (as seen by PP'S poor attempt) and there are large economies of scale.

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>>49319654

>>49320529
Are people really hankering for Knight sized models? They are obnoxious IMO. I prefer dreadnoughts and Tanks to be the largest models in a game.

>>49320774
Not even knight sized, but say rhino sized models are difficult with CB. GW has good detail with massive variety, anything from tanks to dreads, to planes to knights. Plus it has massive and very easy customisation for all of them.

CB only has humans, drones and human shaped TAG mecha. Their detail is outstanding, but only for a limited range. Customisation is hard and limited.

If CB had GWs range and customisation, it would probably edge them out both on clarity of detail, and it's better proportions. However, at this moment, it's reach is limited.

It's toxic pewter makes extremely sharp details very cleanly, not even seen in GW minis, but it's at the level beyond anyone other than a pro would be able to appreciate.

>>49321223
>anything from tanks to dreads
Lolwut? All imperial tanks and walkers from 4th ed. and ugly as fuck.
>to planes
>GW
>good planes
kek
>to knights
Another generic robot.

>>49315473
Not sure if Malifaux isn't being brought up much in this thread because everyone is in a competition for second place, or if it's just not as popular as it should be.

>>49314558
Surge is a similar concept as Vanhel's dance in WHFB, one of the most iconic spell for undead.

>>49321909
>dance

Someone doesn't dance the danse macabre

>>49308403
I don't care for mkiii at all, I'm still unhappy with the roll out. Plus I'm not looking forward to having to rely on theme lists for my army to be interesting/viable.
I'm also kind of salty the fluff is being taken out of the books.

9th age is p sweet thou, I love it!

>>49315106
>The system itself works for small squad games, skirmish, large, and retardedly large battles.
It actually doesn't work any good for any of them. It covers them all, but it covers them poorly.

>>49322518
This.Their large games are retarded. Their normal games has eldar, and their small games are boring.

It might be fun to play a titan war the first time.

Then you realise that you're cramping a lot of troops and massive titans on a battlefield that is smaller than the space both armies occupies. Games take 2 days to finish, and everyone is bored.

Normal games are terribly unbalanced. certain matchups are pretty much a 3 hour ego strokefest. Anyone playing eldar is guaranteed a win. Anything weaker than eldar, tau and SM can go home.

Skirmish is insanely boring, even with kill team. Few special rules, very boring, very mundane.

I think anyone here can agree that by far, 40k has the worst ruleset. The only ruleset that came close to this level of suckage is probably WHFB 8th, but even that has some modicum of tactics.

40k has degenerated to the point where you can accurately place everyone in a tournament based off their lists alone. A complete noob will flatten anyone with eldar. tau/SM in the hands of someone who has never even touched a rulebook in their entire life can steamroll a veteran ork player.

I was desperately hoping Killteam would be a 'new' set of streamlined rules that would create a new style of game.

as it is, its just shitty 40k 7e with the same old problems. (way too much rolling, model count wins)

>>49320484
He's only not pro because he won't accept the money I keep trying to throw at him...

>>49307608
>X-Wing
>Prepainted, so its a plus.

Are you joking? Pre-painted crap is a no go.

>>49309364
Most minis from the Khorne range are pretty nice though

>>49309956
Tree-Space marines?

>>49310525
>40k can be played in Killteam, to small engagements, to massive 10/15 tablesized apocalypse.

Sadly only one of these options is somewhat fun.

>>49322727
>WHFB 8th, but even that has some modicum of tactics
Walk straight and grind them out isn't much of a tactic.

People are calling warmahordes unbalanced by comparing them to games with less than 60 models.

Yeah, no shit balance is going to be tighter in guild ball. Warmahordes just released a new edition and is still trying to iron everything out. Balance is complicated and each faction has around 80 unique models or units, compared to the 6 or 7 per guild ball team. The only thing that you can compare that to is GW games, and they're a hell of a lot more balanced than that. X-wing's entire line is less than 60 ships, multiply that number by 3 to get the number of pilot cards that actually see play.

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>>49307517
AoS
>Fluff is ok

Bitch please...

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>>49307608
>Battletech
1.There's a general up at this very moment and a hopefully not-shit game coming out sometime next May.

2.Miniatures are undeniably steaming piles of shit, but most of the new art is bretty gud.

3. >Alpha Strike

4. The great thing about having something like 100+ novels and sourcebooks is that you can skip over what you don't like and read what you do. The devs and writers have actually somehow made the cast of the current in-game era the most diverse the game has ever seen (including but not limited to several edgy grandparents of varied race and creed, a rapist-slaying Chinese hooker-princess, a literal autist, and one or more psychotic genocidal furfags) making most of the "bad-guys" into unidentifiable gray men with too many hidden agendas and ulterior motives to count.

Now I'm not saying you're wrong
but I am saying go fuck yourself you stupid nigger

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>>49307608
and here's another (You) just to show what the new minis look like in mostly capable hands

Every time I read a miniature comparision thread there is a retard that bring out Fluff.

It's ok confronting rules, miniature, hobby things, but fluff ?

If you want nice fluff go reading a book retards.

If you choose a miniatyre game for the fluff you are the scum that permit shit like GW to go on.

>>49323498
>>49323543

There's good reason why BT came out as the top mini game, then died straight away.

People have been clamouring for MWO minis for the past 4 years. There might be new minis coming out, but even those are merely shit tier compared to literally everything else. The new shimmy minis are the best thing z-scale can produce, but they're shit, because z-scale. You can only do so much with z-scale. Your average space marine has double or triple the amount of any of the shimmyseen stuff. He's done a fantastic job, too bad he's in the wrong franchise.

Current fluff is merely trying to erase the old retardation. Doesn't change the fact that the old stuff is retarded, or that it still isn't bad.

Battletech was an 80s miniature game about the 70s, and has been stuck in that era for the past 40 years.

>>49322727
>insanely boring

What are you talking about? 'Special rules' are not what makes small skirmishes interesting.

>>49323691
So people should force themselves to play in settings or with factions/models that do not interest them to make you happy?

>>49308105
How is it grimderp? I feel like it fits the setting in a much better way than the boring Garry Stu stormtroopers.

>>49318248
>Khador, Cyngar: compared to the vastness of 40k, these supposed nations just feel like sub-factions.

The sheer amount of depth they have is incredible, dude. Fucking Llael, te smallest nation in Warmahordes, is better defined than any 40K planet is.

40K is a big setting, that doesn't mean it always has more depth.

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>>49318248
>Neither does the Nomads, as they feel like they could be part of any MegaCorp.

Dionysian space nuns that think AI is literally the devil are megacorp material?

>>49324097
Unfortunately, Llael has more fluff than cygnar, khador, and protectorate combined, thanks to the massive war that occurred there.

Llael is a pompus nation that lost because it was too proud, betrayed by its cygnarians allies, and oppressed by its khadorian occupiers. The undeground works to liberate it from all foreigners. Very good fluff.

What about cygnar? murica with lightning, and ex evil king, current good king, stryker runs the show and ships off moslem terrorists. Very boring. I know almost nothing about the struggles of the common man there. There is no inner conflict, nothing to strive for, other than following stryker or hayley on their mary sue adventures.

khador is even worse. its just stereotypical russia. all it lacks is a bunch of slavs squatting in addidas tracksuits.

protectorate is fanatical moslems playing politics.

Arguable, Llael has more depth than any of the factions in warmahordes, despite being NPC.

>>49324056
>to play in settings or with factions/models that do not interest them to make you happy?

You choose what to play by aesthetic and rules.

If you like Fantasy you play fantasy or something else you like.

Telling that fluff is an entry point for miniature game is like telling that music is what bring you to see a movie.

>>49324154
Nigga have you read ANY of the background material?

Cygnar has just as much history and detail as Llael. All the nations do except Ios, which is getting its big lore installment in an upcoming book.

Just the religious systems of these countries alone are more detailed and well conceived than everything we know about the Ecclesiarchy put together.

>>49324184
And people also choose what to play by how they feel about the fluff of that faction/unit. In fact people who don't do that cause problems in basically every wargame. Same as the powergaming shits who use non historical but powerful forces in Bolt Action or other historical games.

Why are you acting like that is strange? Do you just completely ignore the settings your games take place in and have no care for the fluff at all?

>>49321778
Malifaux has major problems.
>Aesthetic is not very popular
>Cards instead of dice outs people off
>Tournament system is retarded
>Game itself feels like a game, and doesn't have the exciting, cinematic moments of something like Infinity or Armada

>>49321909
Which was bad design then.

>>49322301
Mk3 WM killed the scene in my area.

>>49322727
Are you me?

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>>49323231
>Balance is complicated
Oh god, that is so sad.

Infinity, Malifaux and DZC all have a good amount of models and are way more balanced.

>>49324184
Um, music is actually incredibly important to a movie.

>>49324226
Cygnar has taken horrific losses from a 2 front war, civil war and constant attacks from Cryx.

Yet they still chill like nbd except on the border.

France in WW1 was on the verge of collapse and it didn't lose an entire army every book.

Seacat is a hack.

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So reading this thread as a RPGer, sounds like:

1. Infinity
2. Armada
3. Guild Ball
4. X Wing
5. Kings of War
6. Drop Zone Commander
7. Malifaux
8. Warmachine
9. 40k
10. Age of Sigmar
Go ahead and tell me I'm wrong ;)

>>49324540
Maybe, but people don't look at a movie poster and say "woah, Hans Zimmer scored this movie, I HAVE it see it".

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So, uh, can I join the discussion, or is it too late?

>>49324670
>Prepainted
>Shit Poses
>Weird proportions
>Shitty game no one plays
>Really bad fluff

Sure.

>>49324701
>>Prepainted
>>Really bad fluff

I don't even..

>>49324670
>snyderverce
Great taste, slav.

>>49324740
But fluff really, really bad.

>>49324777
For suicide squad movie itself I'd agree, but for most everything else touched on by BMG I'd be inclined to disagree.

>>49324551
The civil war is partially a consequence of the huge economic and social strain they're under.

>>49324825
Just another pleb. Let me guess, ur mum`s name was martha?

>>49325014
So Arrowverse, Dark Knight Trilogy, Arkham games, and all DC comics are shit, gotcha.

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I dropped 40k and infinity
40k because of it hideous rules bloat
and i dropped infinity because of its inbalances such as it's a no brainer to play ariadna and stupid to play Pan-O and it was a chore to play with my combine since the only tactic i had was drop smoke everywhere or get killed to 100 AROs

I play mostly Bolt action and team yankee now and i love playing them even if bolt action's vehicles rules are abit silly

>>49323085
X-wing's pre-paints, and Armada's as well, are actually really fucking good.

Don't let your experience with crap like Heroclix turn you off from pre-paints, just because they did such a piss-poor job on theirs.

>>49325220

bolt action rules with 40k models might be nice

I suppose thats what Gates of Antares is supposed to be but the models are shite.

Antares should just do identical NOTGW equivalents for every gw unit so you can use 40k models instead,

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>>49323761
>Battletech was an 80s miniature game about the 70s, and has been stuck in that era for the past 40 years.

More like an 80s miniature game about 80s anime but yeah, Battletech is irredeemable since the fanbase that keeps it afloat does so to keep up the failed old image.

>>49325220
>no brainer to play ariadna

Kek, are you even trying? Ariadna aren't remotely OP. The only faction with a notable head over the rest is Haqqislam.

Git gud.

>>49307608
>Worst fluff. mary sue 'murica beating up Chinese people, Japanese people and assorted Asians. Later become 'murica beating up communist negros (CSJ), communist red indians (CJF) while the scandanavian-red indians get absorbed in. Very 1970s centric, very racist, very out of touch. Its like something your drunk, redneck, racist uncle will come up with

Spot on. Everybody who has ever played Battletech should be tarred with the "racist" brush from now until the day they die. Literally every Battletech player and developer in history could be shot in the back of the head tomorrow, and nothing of value would be lost.

>>49326540

He probably played in N2, when Ariadna camo spam (and specifically Merovingian camo spam run in the Polish style) absolutely dominated the shit out of ITS. In which case, I don't blame him for his conclusion.

In N3, you're correct, Ariadna is far more balanced. What works even better is if you play by the Limited Deployment rules: no more than 1 combat group per side. That fixes practically every issue with intra-faction balance.

>>49307517
I like 40k better because it's easier to customize and make your own dudes. There's no greater feeling in the hobby imo than converting and painting up some mimis, then telling other players what you did to convert and paint up those minis. I still want some infinity models because they look awesome, but it's a lot harder to put your own personal touch into them.

>>49307606
I think he's talking about PanO though. Seems like OP only wants to stir shit and not have an actual discussion. Who would have guessed?

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>>49308073
oh come on, they have some pretty fucking talented sculptors/designers on board.

I dunno, I've been playing battletech for 12 years and I love the ruleset and the fluff.

The minis are garbage though.

But if you don't like the rules, try alpha strike. It turns it into a really nice skirmish game. Standard fight is 12v12 with mechs having a statline that looks more like warmahordes than battletech.

>>49325153
>Arrowverse
At this point yes
>Dark Knight
Yes Dark Knight was great, it's been years now, and several other shitty movies
>Arkham games
Yes, super shitty lore, but at least it's fun being batman
>DC comics
Comics are shit. Marvel comics too.

>>49307517
40k is making a comeback at my lgs though. Lot's of people going back to it, especially with kill team released. Decaying? Maybe, but not here.

>>49307517
>AoS
>Solid ruleset
>balance
Nigga, you went full retard

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>>49317480
Mat was at a tournament in Upstate NY this weekend that I played in, and he was my round 1 opponent. Literally the coolest guy, if anything it's made me want to play even more. This game is fucking fantastic, and I want to see it grow. Pic related is his Fishermen.

>>49328336
Also, went 8/12, I got a goal with Brisket and Shank, but he turned it around really quickly. He even got a take out T1 with Jak on my mascot Truffles.

I've went from GW to Infinity one year ago. I'm dodging the old models but I really dig the new ones. The paintjob on the Infinity models is far more difficult and sometimes I miss the big armies but it's very unlikely that I'll give GW another chance.

I don't really get the appeal of guild ball. We play blood bowl at my flgs.

>>49328336

So small model count how is the gameplay?

>>49328843
Like malifaux and warmachine had a baby

>>49328527
>dodging the old models
My LGS stocked Infinity, didn't sell old models, only stocks new single models, no new box sets... gets hard to find new blood to play with.
X-Wing absolutely exploded around here though.

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At least there is a choice.

In Russia I think only Zvezda tried to do some Fantasy and Sci-fi. But they normally do 1/72 historical miniatures.

The result was minis with passable detalisation but horrible design. Also some strange decision with parts. Zvezda normally makes good kits for customisation but in Fantasy they made them completely insane.

For example arms and legs of these legionnaires consist of 3 parts each. Shield and weapon is their own pieces too.

>>49319351
>>49319535
I didn't realize you were ACTUALLY asking. The format of your initial post seemed, to me, like you were being snarky after having already read the fluff. Your questions have been answered, but yes, the source books that come with the rules books are rich with stories, strait information, point of view articles and so on.

You made it sound like you had read the most recent books and just found them lacking which is like saying you looked through a 40k book and didn't find any skulls.

That said I'm glad your questions were honest and answered, and would heavily suggest you check out infinity general threads. The background is thorough and getting more so in N3

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>>49324472
I don't see how any of those are problems. The aesthetic is good, but not for everyone (Then again you could say the same for a lot of other games). The card system itself isn't bad at all as it adds another level of resource management, and any newcomers it somehow deflects is no fault of the system itself. I don't see how it necessarily lacks cinematic moments. There are a lot of fun mechanics dealing with things like morale and more vague things like the whims of fate (An actual force in the fluff).

Do you have any specific criticisms of the tournament system itself? I think that it works out fine, especially compared to 40K as an individual game doesn't take that long.

>>49329264
>No other company will ever do undead Romans
I would kill for Zvezda to do a game at 28mm with models priced at what they normally charge for airplanes and such.

>>49329472

You are out of luck. They made it already around 7 years ago I think.

Generic humans - something like crossbred Warhammer Bretonnia and Empire.

Elves with some LOTR influences and pegasi.

Undead legions with necromancers.

And orcs. With female orc hunters and some bison like mounts.

It was discontinued. You can probably hunt down some of the boxes but how many and for what price I can't say.

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>>49329550
I remember looking at The Lost Legion box on Ebay, but they charged silly amounts for it. I just want an army of skeletons not unlike Ermor from Dominions.

>>49328843
Really good. There are a few reaction-ey things, but those rely on your opponent leaving your CC range. You have to get 12 points, by getting 4 per goal, or 2 per kill. I like it a lot.

>>49324472
>>49329441
I'd go further than saying they aren't problems, ReplyAnon, I'd say that list was mostly flat out wrong.

The only valid point there is that it does feel pretty game-y, and as you said, it's hardly a big deal, and I don't think it's actually much more so than the counter-examples.

I too am interested in the complaints about the tournament system.

>>49329591

Yeah they made it almost exactly like that. Legionnaires, archers and some cavalry. All in Roman style and skeletal.

Necromancer leaders were in medieval style.

There were also zombies with crawling minis. Really nice looking.

But I can't find even pictures with them now.

>>49325220
Aleph just won the world championship, followed by Combined Army.

Ariadna did ok I guess.

>>49326933
WHY WOULD THEY NOT COVER HIM IN ARMOR???

>>49330094
It's like a gimp suit anon. It certainly isn't the first impractical design in 40K, and it isn't as if other games aren't free from the same sin.

>>49329016
Mine does something similar, but I can order Infinity boxes through them.

The key thing for them to stock is starter sets.

>>49329441
Don't you build the list at the table? I could see that being a chore and incentivizing people to own everything to make optimal lists for opponents/scenarios.

>>49330115
That isn't impractical, that is absolutely stupid.

Its not even rule of cool.

>>49330144
It depends on how you are playing. The most recent winner at nationals used the same list for 5/6 games, so that isn't necessarily true. The ad-hoc nature comes from how you generate objectives. If you generate objectives that are super killy, then you get models that can put lead down range and such. If you are doing one where you need to plant a bomb or move to the other side of the table quick, then you pick models that can move fast. That is mostly in casual games though. Most tournaments I see list out the objectives beforehand, so you will know what lists you need to use.

>>49330186
Do you know your opponents beforehand?

And if someone was using the same list for multiple opponents/objectives, sounds like intrafaction balance is shit.

>>49330158
>its not even rule of cool

Bullshit, that looks cool as fuck, even if impractical I want to paint that.

>>49330224
What does anything you have said have to do with anything? In casual play you often may randomly generate your objectives on the spot by flipping for schemes and strategies. In tournaments there will be a specific set of schemes and strategies given to you (Possibly the same ones every round) so you know what to build your list towards. At that point the only surprise would be which faction your opponent declares, which would happen before lists are declared. In that case you may want to go for a models that work better against that faction.

Inter-faction balance is probably the best out there right now, as each faction has tools for every scheme and strategy and utilities to use against every other faction.

>>49314609
thats a coral zombie

neither tree nor man

>>49330319
inter=\=intra

>>49331304
Even then it is hardly a problem compared to other games. The only master that is actively bad is Lucius, otherwise each master has its own role. It's far better than any other game I have played, especially 40K where as Daemons I will always get stomped unless I run Fateweaver+Tzeentch summon spam.

>>49328843
>>49328649
Guild ball plays much different than blood bowl and the game part is pretty much the appeal of a sports ball game although the models are getting more interesting. Its really easy to pick up and is a bit like warmachine with alternate activation and better rules for movement and resolving damage but there is a kind of focus mechanic for sure.

>>49331366
Yes, but 40k sucks.

I actually like Malifaux, but some masters are WAY better than others.

>>49331675
Guild ball is so much better than Warmachine, I would not compare the two.

>>49332274
Agreed it is way better

>>49307517
40k
>Has Tanks
>Has special rules to simulate Tank Combat
>Enforces the illusion that bipedal robots could ever be a smart engineering decision and not a stupid idea for any combat chasses
Fantasy
>One Tank
>No longer in print
AoS
>No tanks
Infinity
>No tanks
Warmahords
>No Tanks
>Again uses bipedal robots for combat chassis
Flames of War
>TANKS!
>Armor Mechanics Simulating Tanks
>General combined armes goodness
>But its yet another WWII wargame.

>>49326933
What model?