/gurpsgen/ GURPS general

if only someone would play GURPS with me

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Micromachines and radiation gurpsgen. Can TL10 nanocleaners and stuff like that withstand the background radiation of space?

I need to know this because economics.

>>49307498
They're nanocleaners. I wouldn't think the be suceptible at all, but then again, can't you just modify them to be Hardened for better ht vs rads?

>>49307498
Somebody told you no last thread.
But I'm sure by TL10 somebody'll figure something out.

GMs of /gurpsgen/:

How do you prepare for a campaign? From initially having the idea to the first session you run. I understand the mechanics of GURPS, but I can't wrap my head around setting up a campaign.

And before someone says "watch a friend", none of them can, either.

>>49307498
Probably not. Radiation fucks up delicate stuff and the only way to stop it is to either have massively redundant systems with self-repair capability or shielding. Since micromachines are too small to carry shielding, they would need redundant systems and self-repair capabilities. Ones much better than most biological systems. Since self-replicating nano is TL12, TL10 stuff hasn't got a hope in hell of standing up to serious radiation.

>>49308798

I do it "agile," where I focus on the parts of the setting that matter most to the player for where they are starting and where they hope to go. This means the players need a clear motivation for what they want to do first, and building around a skeleton of a railroad, hopefully, you only need to work on the most important part of the setting.

As your players progress "down the track" and you get to different "checkpoints" you can start adding more details and planning for more specific "alternative paths" as you reach them. Maybe if the overarching goal is "Avenge my father who was killed by the BBEG," and the character's backstory has the character on the run, I'd try to prepare notes for the threeish possibilities that the player might:
1) decide to turn around and fight back
2) Find a place to hide
3) Surrender
And Only prepare rough outlines of what might happen on those three, because there is always the possibility of the players taking an "option 4," and I'll try to fly with that.

My motto is Rome wasn't built in a day, and combined with Murphy's Law, I feel like if I did spend weeks preparing for a campaign, it would all go in the trash as the players decide to do something completely unexpected in session 1.


But there is more than one way to skin a cat.

>3 people have backed the DF Kickstarter at the $1986 level
Alright, out with it, which one of your pasty frames will be gracing the pages?

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> roll low bullshit
> no escalating costs so you can buy skills out the ass even with a low-level character
> point buy allows for autistic shit like pic related
> chargen takes hours
> literal traits for every tiny-ass thing like needing less food
> can take mental illnesses out the ass until the GM gets sick of keeping track of them
> overly lethal so all that time you spend making a character is wasted the second he gets hit with a bullet or arrow

Yeah no thanks.

>>49309277
More of what I'm looking for, I guess, is how do you decide what out of the pile of rules you're actually going to use? "Only use what you need" is all well and good once things are underway, but there's a hell of a lot of basic-seeming rules in GURPS.

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>>49309314
Join us and die.

>>49309314

Smells like a rule-lawyering meme spouting fucktard

>Whips up a basic Transformer character sheet in five minutes

>>49308798

Start off by figuring out roughly how long you want the campaign to last. Something like six sessions is probably good for a first-time campaign.

Then you work out what style of game you want and what the end-point is going to be. For example it could be 'a struggle to escape from a hostile place' and the end-point would be when you finally get away.

Then decide on the setting and the kind of characters you want. For example, you might want a sci-fi game and to have the characters be spaceship crew. You can do this before the previous step if you like.

Figure out what the final exciting scene might be like. It might not work out exactly as you planned and you may want to have several alternatives available but always try and have some idea of an ending before you start doing the rest. For example, you might want the final scene to be a race to get to the only serviceable spaceship on the planet before it is destroyed by lava. Possibly while being chased by alien monsters.

Then you have to figure out the pieces which are necessary to get the characters to a final scene. They have to be racing to get to the last spaceship, so there has to be a reason the spaceship is there. Who does it belong to? Is it their spaceship that they just got repaired or someone else's? Why is the spaceship near an active volcano? Why is the volcano erupting just as they arrive? Why are they on this planet?

Then take all of those elements and try and break them down into things that happen to the PCs. How do they find out about the spaceship? Why don't they just use their own spaceship to escape in session 1?

Try to have a few branching paths which lead to roughly the same point. Put multiple opportunities for them to get every clue and proceed to the next part of the plot. Have a plan for when they come up with something completely unexpected.

Break it all down into chunks and split those chunks up into sessions.

>>49308312

Yup. I was just polling for more opinions.

>>49309241

This is good to hear. I'm worldbuilding, and some of my economics is based around people not actually wanting to go "full von Neumann" since the maintenance "cost" is unsustainable compared to just trading for the shit you can't manufacture efficiently yourself.

Maintenance on space machinery wouldn't be a problem though if you have a bunch of nanoswarms fixing everything up, since nanoswarms are pretty fucking great at that.

>>49307004
Question. Is there any way to make it so you don't kill yourself when doing a slam attack? My first intuition is that Drop-kick from MA doesn't make you take damage, but it's unclear.

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>>49308798

I just write a setting I like, then I apply the mechanics I think are appropriate for realizing the setting I want.

If you want an easy way to start, just use a premade setting. Your friends will probably like playing Cowboys in the Shell in TRANSHUMAN SPAAAAACE

>>49309685

Sure. Either wear enough armor to ignore the slam damage or you use a shield rush/weapon slam

>>49309548
>>49309277
>>49309691

I guess I need to clarify. I've successfully GMes multiple campaigns before. I have no problem writing a campaign or its plot. I have a LOT of problems with trying to hash out GURPS mechanics from a GM perspective. I'm used to systems that are more... Setting-tight, I suppose. (Not D&D.)

>>49309685
Shield slam. Pack on the DR. Use the rules from Martial Arts that lets you slam with a thr weapon (e.g. you hold a spear ahead of you and run at the bitch).

>>49309352
This advice is basically just rewording what you just said but...

1. Start with only the rules from lite. (but maybe the list of advantages/disadvantages and skills from basic set)
2. Focus on one extra special thing you want to do on top of that (Detailed combat, magic, special powers, in-depth social engagement)
3. Find the rules for that one special thing in the Basic Set, and apply the ones you like.

Like this guy said, >>49309548 start with a short campaign because you might find that one interesting special focus is a bit too vanilla and get bored fast. Maybe a "one adventure long" campaign like:

Solve a simple murder case (using detailed social engineering)
Double elimination combat tournament (practice using detailed combat rules from the basic set and potentially martial arts)
Bank Heist (Exercises a little bit of everything)

>>49309754
>>49309716
Alright, thanks. And, was my interpretation of Drop-kick wrong then? It doesn't stop you from taking damage?

>>49307004
I have a Reach 3 weapon, can i attack a enemy behide another enemy? or do i get a penalty?

>>49309749

The premade settings have readily applied character creation guidelines that the players can read and apply. The most popular ones are Dungeon Fantasy, though I'm sure GURPS Transhuman Space or GURPS Traveler are easily accessible as well.

As for the mechanics in play, it's honestly not that different from any other game. Players want to do something? Make them roll the appropriate skill or a default, success they get to do what they want, failure there are negative consequences.

As for combat, if you don't attach a lot of bells and whistles it's fairly straightforwards. If the players got multiple defenses in the +12 range and DR equal to the average damage of the opponent's weapon, they will likely roll said opponent (exception: automatic weapons are hella scary. Take cover!).

Guns are sorta scary but if you just learn the Rate of Fire rules they become very simple. I suggest having a GM cheat sheet that got the range/speed tables and RoF bonuses handily nearby since they tend to come up a lot when ranged weapons are used.

>>49309805

I can't remember. Check Martial Arts. A drop kick is either a sort of flying tackle or it's a special technique (probably flying attack/flying kick something).

>>49309892
Oh, I know it's a thing in MA, I meant I can't quite tell how to rule that, based on the description.

This attack uses two feet in an attempt to injure and
knock down an opponent. It’s a special option for Move and
Attack. Use the following rules instead of the normal rules
for that maneuver. A Drop Kick is a type of slam (p. B371). You must move
at least a yard towards your target. The kick itself has a reach
of 2 yards. Roll against Drop Kick to hit. Damage is as for a
slam, at +2 for going feet first (or +3 if wearing heavy boots).
Brawling, Sumo Wrestling, or Wrestling adds its usual damage bonus. Succeed or fail, you immediately fall down. Until
your next turn, you may block or parry from the ground at
the usual penalties, but you can’t dodge or retreat.
In a cinematic game, GMs may allow an Acrobatics-5 roll
for the attacker to land on his feet after a successful Drop
Kick. A miss results in a fall!

>>49309929

It's a slam then.

>>49309805
I believe so. The entry says a drop kick is a kind of slam, but does not say that it ignores any of the slam rules. HOWEVER, the damage would likely be applied to your feet; a pair of solid boots with thick soles would be able to grant enough DR to negate most of the slam damage, and better yet would do so cheaply. I still recommend a shield slam if you're intending to go slam heavy; dropkicks leave you prone, even in a cinematic game if you fail the acrobatics roll.

>>49310033
Nah, doesn't quite work. I was making a speedster, and figured a slam would be a good way to do an "Alpha Strike" as I close distance, but it's basically suicide at that value, it seems.

>>49309783
This is helpful. Thanks.

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whats the best way to mix guns and magic?

>>49312114
Ritual Path Magic and Imbuements both come with abilities to enchant bullets by default.

>>49312114
what >>49312359 said.
but if you want to play some thing like the pic go play exalted it more suited for that kind of play.

>>49312114
Man, now you've got me wanting to do urban fantasy Payday as a campaign. Thanks for that.

>>49312359
How good is RPM for enchanted bullets, actually? Seems like the charm system would make it extremely slow and costly to make them for anything other than a single-shot or bolt-action rifle.

>>49309749
>I have a LOT of problems with trying to hash out GURPS mechanics from a GM perspective. I'm used to systems that are more... Setting-tight, I suppose.

OK, I'm not quite sure what you mean. Can you give an example of the kind of thing you are stuck on?

Most of the time, I find just using the rules from Action 2 works fine. It's abstract enough that it's fairly fast to play but gives enough detail to be satisfying.

One thing to bear in mind is that you're not committing yourself to using a rule for the entire campaign because you used it once. I switch between using the size/speed/range table, Action's abstract range and just flat out ignoring all modifiers and rolling against skill, sometimes with a penalty I just made up. Basically use what you feel like at the moment and if it doesn't work, stop using it.

>>49313631

>Not spending all your downtime casting charms on individual bullets
>Not RoF:ing bad luck charms at people

Do you even wizard?

>>49309842
You can and there is no penalty.

>>49309685
All-Out Attack (Strong) helps put more damage on the target than the slammer, but if you collide at high enough speed you are going to fuck yourself up.

>>49313953
Okay, an example. Let's say I'm >>49312853 and want to do "urban fantasy heist film: the tabletop game". One player wants to be our Danny Ocean, our smooth talker.

Do I go with the most basic social rules there is? Do I wildcard-skill social rules? Do I have a few of the base social skills, but not all of them? Do I let all the base social skills have a use? How far do I go with modifiers? Am I limiting my players from playing the character they want if I say "no, I'm not using the full social rules, so your smooth talker's going to be a little abstract in skill" while combat still has decent depth?

Apply that to every field of the game, including even deciding on a magic system and how detailed to go with it (ritual path magic, but you'd be surprised how confusing that is to some players I've shown it to in the past). Then dump that on top of actually, well, figuring out the campaign, which isn't all that hard. It's a lot of unanswered questions and thoughts.

Compare, say, Shadowrun (which I've played but never GMed). There's a hard distinction between each skill, each skill is useful (barring some of the technical skills) without having to faff about with it, and you can't really add more skills or remove what you have already without causing a problem. Magic is well-defined, if not well-implemented; so on and so forth. The mechanics reflect the setting and system, a generic system inherently can't, so I'm having trouble adapting my mindset. Dark Heresy's largely the same way, and that's the one I have experience GMing.

The simplest answer seems to be "just go with what's in Lite", but I don't know if that's the best answer. Does Action 2 cover more than combat? Seemed like that was most of what there was when I read over it, but it's been close to a year now.

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I've only just started playing GURPS and, correct me if I'm wrong, isn't the standard magic system kind of weak? At least combat wise?

The way I'm seeing it, melee and missile spells are going to be garbage in most settings because they are more expensive point wise than most weapon skill due to being IQ/Hard (and have prerequisites), take at least two turns to cast with no way to reduce the time, have three chances to fail (roll to cast, roll to hit, opponent's defense roll) compared to most other attacks' two, can be interrupted, cost FP, and for all these limitations don't actually deal that much damage, being limited to 1d per Magery level (limit of 3 in standard settings according to the book.) It seems like even TL3 melee weapons are dealing more damage given a good ST score, more often, without all the limitation. Not to mention tech and guns, which missile spells don't seem to be able to compete with at all.

Then Regular spells have huge range penalties and Area spells cost massive amounts of FP for a decent radius, but those aren't that bad and can be mitigated to a degree. Even though Advantages seem to be cheaper and less limited.

The thing I'm really confused about, though, is the Enchantment college. If I'm reading it right trying to make an item by yourself can take literal years, requires a specialized lab, and is impossible to do while adventuring. Meanwhile a cinematic Gadgeteer can whip up something presumably equivalent in minutes to hours.

Is it just impossible to be an effective blaster mage that flings fireballs? Is magic's strength supposed to be in utility (in which case the spells in GURPS Magic aren't that impressive)?

What am I missing here that makes magic good? Why is being a wizard so hard for so little payoff?

>>49313967
>Not running an animal sacrifice production line.

>>49314178
OK, for skills you pretty much just need to decide if this is going to be an over-the-top game or not. If it is, allow everything, if not, disallow any that are classed as cinematic (including wildcards). That's basically it. You don't need to decide on a case-by-case basis most of the time. Cinematic or not. If in doubt, go with not-cinematic, because basic skills will work fine in a cinematic game.

Magic is unfortunately a big choice, but some of the systems are relatively simple. Go with Path and Book or Chinese Elemental Powers and you should be fine.

>Does Action 2 cover more than combat?

Way more. Seriously, it's pretty much the one-stop guide to running a GURPS game with minimal hassle.

>>49307498

Yes - in THS, nanosymbionts are used in several spacefarering characters (just been reading Personnel Files).

However, that's for devices inside people, inside hulls.

For things expected to work on the outside of a ship, I'd imagine you'd want larger micromachines instead (and to keep them out of direct exposure where possible).

>>49314651
Dude.

Dude, naw. If you're trying to do blasty things with a standard GURPS mage you're Doing It Wrong. You wanna shoot shit, play a Heroic Archer with Weapon Master (Bow).

Use Flash, it's freaking terrible. Use Glue and Stench. Use Daze, Stun, or Sleep. Turn their best fighter into a Body of Air. Use See Secrets to find ALL THE TRAPS. Use Mage Sight to see who's got Magery on the other team and get your fighters to kill them. Use Illusion Shell to disguise a cart as a boulder and hide the whole party beneath it.

There are about 400 decent, useable spells out of the 700 or so in Magic. There's a LOT you can do.

>>49314651

There're ways to make pretty good blaster mages.

In the Epic Magic pyramid, Essential Spells are a pretty big upgrade to regular blasting spells (though Hellfire is overpriced), and it improves the rules for modding spells (which can make a lot of damage spells much better).

In Pyramid 28, Yellow Goblin Magic has a very decent blasting spell (more of an artillery spell really) with uncapped damage and an impaling explosion effect. With a good powerstone, or enough Wealth to have it as a powered item, you can do some nasty things.

>>49309685
Slam people smaller than you and be tough as fuck. Slam hurts you, but it hurts then more.

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>>49314771
I was hoping GURPS was a system where there wasn't really much Doing It Wrong. I just don't think it should be wrong to want to blast people with magic. Or Enchant things while also adventuring.

Still, I'm not seeing a lot of great spells.
>Flash
2 second casting time unless 20+ skill, expensive to do on an IQ/Hard skill and starting to concentrate is a giant "kill me" sign that lets whatever you're doing be interrupted.

>Glue
Seems decent, though Area spells get expensive very quickly.

>Stench
Damage is a little low, but I like it. Seems useful.

>Daze
2 second casting time.

>Stun
Probably the best spell on this list.

>Sleep
3 second casting time.

>Body of Air
5 second casting time, practically unusable in combat.

>See secrets
Pretty good.

>Mage Sight
>Enchanted (or magical) beings also
glow, though mages themselves do not
unless they actually have spells on them
at the moment
Useful for other reasons, though.

>Illusion Shell
Illusions in general seem pretty useful with creativity.

So yeah, what I'm getting from this is that magic is terrible for actually dealing damage and fighting and is instead utility focused with some debuffs being potentially good if you've got time to cast. Still don't like the idea of doing nothing for two turns while everyone else acts, and then maybe my spell works, though. Assuming I don't need to use a blocking spell and ruin my concentration for what I was casting before, too. Mages don't fight, they just help other people fight, I guess.

>>49314178

A lot of these sound like personal decisions based on what you want. I started GMing GURPS several months ago, and my no-magic fantasy setting runs solely on the Basic Set and Low-Tech.

But in terms of your mechanics questions: How many rules you decide to implement depends on their role in the campaign. Using the full social-engineering book is unnessary if only one person in the party is a smooth-talker, and the campaign does not focus on that stuff.

But that said, if you want social mechanics to be more defined in the game, it would be recommended to use all the social rules in the Basic Set, then getting more detailed if you don't feel like that's enough.

Regarding combat, just use the Basic Set. If this is your first campaign, please don't go full tactical combat, especially for a high-tech setting. That probably sounds like a disappoint answer, but you'll be all the better for it. Do use all the appropriate modifiers within the Basic Set, but discourage using Martial Arts, and other such combat-related add-ons. They don't add anything to campaigns with people who aren't there specifically to get their TacOps on.

I too have played and GM'd Shadowrun. Extensively. Given that, I still don't understand 100% what you mean. Shadowrun is an awful, clunky junk of a system. There is no hard distinction between each skill, it can get very confusing which is more appropriate when it comes to non-obvious things. Magic is not at all fucking well-defined.

But I can understand your confusion in which Magic to add and such. I haven't added magic to my game, obviously, but as other anons have said, look up what other premade GURPS stuff has done, and go from there.

Hope that helps!

>>49314651

The basic magic system is especially prone to being outclassed by technology, but it does offer a lot of utility in a low-tech game.

For example, sonic stun weapons are TL10. A TL8 or less gadgeteer couldn't build one while a mage could easily get far more versatile mind control spells. In a TL 3 typical fantasy game, gadgeteers are restricted to inventing things like slightly less shit blackpowder weapons. Although direct damage spells tend to be fairly underwhelming, they can often be picked up for a similar investment in points that a weapon would need. It's also worth noting that you can cause a lot of havoc with magic which might not be great in a 'damage per second' way, but can seriously weaken targets for a warrior to finish off. It's relatively easy to disarm someone with magic, for example, or give them a significant skill penalty. Note that burning damage can set fire to things, including clothing, so while a fireball might not kill someone instantly they will be taking damage every turn and is at a penalty to DX. God help anyone carrying black-powder facing off against a fire mage.

>>49315211
Use the Energy Accumulating variant of Ritual Magic and have spells stored in Ready-Fire charms, then.

>>49315211

Poppycock. You want to be a blasting mage? I believe there are several Pyramids with spell options for just such a magic motherfucker.

Don't let your dreams be dreams!

I'm joining a campaign where our modern day (2016, TL8) PCs end up in a fantasy setting.

I want to play a /k/ommando gunsmith grad student who'd end up being one of the first gunslingers, so I took Armory (TL4, 5, 6, 7) and Engineer Small Arms (TL4, 5, 6, 7). Combine that with needing Mathematics of each TL and Machinist of each TL and that adds up. I especially did this because I can't start with any portable tool-kits.

Someone is telling me I only need TL8 Engineer Small Arms to make a musket, but I don't think I would if I only have TL3 infrastructure available? I could see myself building up in tool kits/infrastructure, but not TL8. There's no way I'd have a TL8 machine shop available for me at any point in the campaign.

>>49315437

Sounds like you're going to be Banestorm'd.

One thing to consider, is that if you buy equipment as Signature Gear, then it's a part of your character - if he's a devoted convention-going hobbyist or over-equipped handyman with a portable machine shop in a van, then that should end up dumped with you into fantasyland.

It's perhaps a bit too obvious, but if the DM's down with it (and it's a very classic idea for ISOT games) then I don't see any real problem.

>>49315981
What about Page 513? It says "all relevant skills at 12+" Does that mean I need 12 points in them, or I can go by with 12 IQ and then 1-2 points in the skills? I dont fully get what page 513 means but it sounds like I may not be able to build myself a cap & ball revolver like I want to.

>>49315981
>One thing to consider, is that if you buy equipment as Signature Gear, then it's a part of your character - if he's a devoted convention-going hobbyist or over-equipped handyman with a portable machine shop in a van, then that should end up dumped with you into fantasyland.

Can't take any tool kits or weapons. It's just anything someone would reasonably have on a cruise.

Don't think the setting is Banestorm either since the GM likes making his own settings.

>>49315211

It isn't that bad a deal to simply make a blaster mage. Magery 6 (Fire College Only) [39], FP 26 [48], Recover Energy 15 [2], Ignite Fire 14 [1], Create Fire 14 [1], Shape Fire 14 [1], Fireball 15 [2], Flame Jet 15 [2], Explosive Fireball 15 [2] and Innate Attack (Beam and Projectile) 14 [24] comes to 122 points and lets you fucking annihilate your enemies. With three seconds of prep time, you've got the ability to chuck a 18d explosive fireball which basically kills everyone within a yard of it's impact point, ruins the day (3d damage and a 50% chance of clothes catching fire) of anyone a yard further than that away and cause some degree of crisping a couple of yards further than that. That's enough to win most squad-level combats by yourself.

If you get attacked without time to prep a spell, you can just whip out a 2 or 3 dice flame jet and do more damage with better reach than most fighters. If you need to control an area, you can cast create fire and cover hundreds of square yards in fire.

You can do all this with no equipment, so you can look perfectly harmless up until the point you set fire to the entire village. Alternatively, you can put a few points into wealth and ST and gear up like a fighter.

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>>49315211
>>49314651
>>49316221

Even if you can't quite get Magery 6, keep in mind..

You can charge up in the seconds before a fight. Not helpful if you are ambushed, but quite often you will be able to begin a fight with a spell ready to go.

Many of your spells will force the opponents to move, divide them, and disorganize them. Battlefield control is somewhat hard in GURPS.

You can deal lots of elemental damage, something that can be very useful at targeting weaknesses in some creatures.

I'll give it to you that you can't throw around a spell every second, but you also can't fire an arrow every second.

Remember: GURPS turns are very small. It's just one second.

>>49316221

To compare, 122 points in cinematic archery gets you Weapon Master (Reflex Bow) [20], Heroic Archer [20], Striking ST 9 [45], Strongbow [1], Bow 15 [20] and Fast Draw (Arrow) 15 [16].

That lets you fire an arrow doing 2d+6 imp every turn, while the mage takes at least two turns to launch a fireball (doing up to 6d burning which does slightly less injury to unarmoured targets but has better armour penetration and can set them on fire). The archer has higher skill than the mage for direct fire, but has no area-effect abilities. Facing a horde of normal foes the archer is better if they are spread out, but the mage is more efficient if they clump together. The mage can also pick up additional spells quite easily, giving him more options and doesn't need a bow to hurt people. On the other hand, he does need mana and can run out of FP more easily than a well-prepared archer will run out of arrows.

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ok im kind of new gurps. I wanted to play a doom game. What books woud work best?

Asked this in the last thread but it died.

For grenade launchers does the round always go off on impact I can't find anything saying it does or does not.

>>49316626
Basic Set, Ultra-Tech (scifi stuff), and I /think/ Horror.

>>49316064
>>49315981
>>49315437
pls respond.

>>49316574
Also, Striking ST, especially 9, is exotic and a GM might refuse to allow a person to get that disproportionate base ST to Striking ST ratio.

Seriously, that's 'wearing powered armor' territory.

>>49316626
Basic Set and High Tech can cover most of it. Not a very hard setting to do, given you really don't need that much. Maybe use Wildcard skills to have all Guns at the same level.

>>49315211
>terrible for actually dealing damage
You can build artillery mages but you're somewhat fighting the system in doing so. The magic-as-skills system really is designed around the idea of utility mages.

If that doesn't fit you can do one of three things: Build a limited (one-college for example) blaster mage, Buy spells normally then add Innate Attack (a 3d imp IA is 24 points without limitations), or use one of the magic systems that does fit your view of how magic works.

If you're stuck with the basic magic system then go the Innate Attack route.

>>49316678
Grenade launchers shoot grenades.

That means the ammunition is grenades.

Look up grenades; look at the options for fuses. Usually it's a 1-5 second mechanical fuse. Ultratech expands on possible payloads/modifiers for those grenades.

Does this help you?

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>>49317032

Yep - although it does change somewhat when you take Enchanted Items into account. A level or two of Power is very expensive... but creates an instant and reliable source of free damage with special effects.

For example, one of the better blasting items (the base spell was mentioned above).

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>>49317427
Eh, Basic Set/High Tech grenades are impact fused, like modern grenades. They are designed to arm after 10 meters when fired and detonate, dealing full damage to objects they hit and explosion and fragmentation damage to nearby objects.

>>49317427
I understand that the normal grenades (throw) did have fuses but I just wasn't sure if 40mm grenades last week we had a player who had one and we wasn't sure if it went off as soon he fired it or not.

>>49317575
Did the gm make a judgement call at least?

>>49316678
As far as I can tell, there's no rule for grenade launchers firing dud shells. The only thing even close to it is a rule in High-Tech for early semi-armour-piercing low-explosive shells.

Since grenades do sometimes fail to detonate, I'd simply say that result 15-18 on the malfunction table result in the grenade being launched but not going off, doing 1d crushing damage to whatever it hits.

>>49317575
Same round it's fired. The one in the core book seems like a 40mm High Explosive Duel Purpose grenade like a M433.

This explodes on impact, generating a jet of copper capable of breaching 5cm of steel and spreading fragments with a 5 meter causality radius. It's good for attacking light armor and equipment or hard points like bunkers and people inside rooms. Be aware the in the open it's fragments can be dangerous to the person that fires it.

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>>49317567
That seems to corroborate with the notes, pity it's no explicitly described. Look at 1 6 7 and 8

>>49316626
GURPS Doom (1, 2, 4):
Books Required: Basic Set (Everyone), Gun Fu (Everyone).
Characters should be 250~350 point combat-focused characters, having high DX, Move, and Guns skills. High Acrobatics will help with dodging, and can be fluffed as "strafing". They should buy a level or two in Enhanced Dodge, and everyone should have Gunslinger. Also consider giving them Regeneration, to help keep them alive.
Don't bother with Tactical Combat, since it'll just slow down the game. This might lead to some homogeny with your players' characters, but that should be fine if you let them have a niche (This guy's great with explosives/grenade launchers, that one's strong enough to run around with dual-wielded LMGs, that one has a chainsaw and battle rifle, etc.). Consider having Wildcard skills tied towards specific jobs - Demo-man! for the explosives dude with a LAW, Heavy Weapons Guy! for Mr. Twin MG, etc.

GURPS Doom (3):
Books Required: Basic Set (Everyone), Horror (GM)
Characters should be 125~175 points, specialized in some job that whatever shithole space coffin they've found themselves buried in needs. Try to include more non-combat challenges, like the engineer of the team needing to kitbash repairs for the comms relay to signal for help, and the janitor with a chip on his shoulder has to unclog the plumbing to drain a section of the station to progress, etc.. GM should try to play up atmosphere and enforce darkness penalties (-3 for by flashlight (supersedes other penalties), -5 for backup lighting, -7 or more for working by red emergency lights).

>>49314651
>>49315211
Don't use GURPS Magic. Just buy some Innate Attacks, put Magical on them and whatever other modifiers you want for the spell, and call it a day.

>>49317614
yeah it went off as soon it landed
>>49317667
Ok I forgot what type he was using but it was older but I make sure to bring it up.

>>49315437
>I took Armory (TL4, 5, 6, 7) and Engineer Small Arms (TL4, 5, 6, 7). Combine that with needing Mathematics of each TL and Machinist of each TL and that adds up.
Check with your GM, but I wouldn't require a matching Mathematics skill for each TL. Also, do you really need engineer in every TL? A serious gun-nut might well have armoury for everything from muskets to assault carbines, but it seems unlikely that they would be designing anything that wasn't either up-to-date or so old that they had to 'reinvent' the methods of building them.

Try to pick up a talent which helps with armory, engineer and mathematics. I'm sure there is one. Or see if you can get a wildcard skill which covers it all.

>I especially did this because I can't start with any portable tool-kits.

I think I'd invest in Engineer (Tools) in that case. Also, take a multitool as signature gear so you aren't completely fucked.

>Someone is telling me I only need TL8 Engineer Small Arms to make a musket, but I don't think I would if I only have TL3 infrastructure available?

TL8 skills working with TL3 tools will take a hefty penalty unless your GM is being co-operative and ignoring the standard rules (pretty fucking unlikely in a modern-people in fantasyland game).

>>49316064
>What about Page 513? It says "all relevant skills at 12+" Does that mean I need 12 points in them, or I can go by with 12 IQ and then 1-2 points in the skills?
It means you need skill level 12; the total number you roll against, not the number of points in the skill. So with a decent IQ and/or talent and a couple of points in each skill you should be OK.

>...it sounds like I may not be able to build myself a cap & ball revolver like I want to.

Good fucking luck making percussion caps with medieval technology. If at all possible, loot flare gun rounds from the ship's lockers or do whatever you can to get access to fire magic (GM might be nice and let you buy magery despite living in a world where it doesn't work).

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>>49317977
I guess I could go with TL4 - 6, or just TL 5 & 6?

>TL8 skills working with TL3 tools will take a hefty penalty unless your GM is being co-operative and ignoring the standard rules (pretty fucking unlikely in a modern-people in fantasyland game).

Yeah, though I could re-allocate skill points. Here's my sheet. I have 5 points left atm.

>It means you need skill level 12; the total number you roll against, not the number of points in the skill. So with a decent IQ and/or talent and a couple of points in each skill you should be OK.

Well, I only start with 30 points and a 15 disadvantage limit.

>>49317822
>GURPS Doom (1, 2, 4)
I completely forgot. You should definitely use the Flesh Wounds rule and Extra Effort in Combat (B417 and B357, respectively). Enemies shouldn't use either of those rules unless they're very dangerous.

Enemies might be the hardest to stat up. Guns in GURPS are generally lethal; getting shot with one will put you down to bleed out. Something that can take a lot of punishment should have higher HP (Less than 50 but more than 15), DR (Ablative works well to represent "big pool of HP"), and possibly an Injury Tolerance. Unliving is in Basic Set, and it's what undead use. Damage Reduction from Powers (P53) should be used for really big bads like Cyberdemons, dividing all injury by 2, 3, or 4.
Fodder like Imps should just die at -1xHP, as per Fragile (Unnatural), and only have one or two additional HP and some DR. Non-fodder enemies such as Pinkies should die at -5xHP, but have higher HT scores (12~13) to represent their hardy nature, keeping them conscious longer. They should also have higher HP and more DR. Cacaodemons should make use of Ablative DR to stay functioning. Boss monsters should most or use all of the options above.

>GURPS Doom (3)
Enemies should be able to take pistol shots and maybe a rifle shot or two. They should be played a bit smarter, attacking in dark hallways when the party is at a disadvantage. Don't be afraid to scale up the encounters if they get serious hardware; it is still Doom. You can use the rules above, but toned down, as your characters will still be squishy.
Now that I think about it, these characters might have some Regeneration, as well, or access to cool medical tech that heals them up.

That should be enough information to get your game going, whichever you choose.

>>49318072
>30 points and a 15 point disadvantage limit

Damn, I've never seen that low of a points level game.

>>49315437
>>49316064

Before you put too much time into writing your character, make sure the GM is onboard with what you want to do. It's really easy for a GM who doesn't want guns in his fantasy setting to stop you building them. Apart from anything else, is he going to give you the months of downtime needed to set up a workshop, gather all the materials and actually manufacture these things? Because if you're fighting goblins every week, chances are you will never get your guns and you will have invested half your points in stuff you can't use.

>>49318192
Yeah. So how can I make the best of what I got, keeping in mind I likely can't learn modern skills after chargen?

>>49318211
Well, he's okay for it but the cruise set up (which he told us about before I told him what I wanted to do) and low point limit makes it difficult.

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I got an important question:
How do you simulate the Magic the Gathering magic system-with PCs as planeswalkers-into GURPS? I've found a bunch of dead links to supposed conversions but have been unable to find any of them.

>>49318303
I don't know it. Could you describe? Like, what its effects are, and what steps are taken to achieve those effects?
Example from D&D: Wizards have to study spells, and have a limited number of spells they can cast per day, and have to spend time preparing those spells. Those spells can be as powerful as stopping time to as weak as cleaning their socks.

Can I add the Reduced Fatigue Cost to Magery so that I can spam cheap blast spells? It feels slightly better than just buying Innate Attack with Malediction.

>>49318072
>Well, I only start with 30 points and a 15 disadvantage limit.

Merciful Christ, he's either a serious member of the Cult of Stat Normalisation, you're in for a brutal low-fantasy buttfucking or you're expected to add a bunch of stuff after character creation. Hopefully the latter.

The Artificer talent isn't a great deal, but it might save you a few points. Ask your GM if you can modify it to include Mathematics and see if he is using alternative talent benefits (if he is, it's fucking fantastic, because it offsets improvised equipment penalties).

Does your GM consider lowered attributes to count towards the disadvantage limit? If he does, you're over it. If he doesn't, buy Per and Will down a bit to save points.

HT 8 seems likely to cause trouble. If he's running a gritty realism kind of game, you're going to be rolling to resist disease and/or poison fairly soon after arriving in a strange environment.

Basically, it's hard to advise you how to proceed without knowing what your GM is like. At a guess, he's probably going to be handing out xp by the bushel-load and you should invest in attributes and talents which will make the relevant skills more effective when you learn them rather than sinking all your points into skills.

But what you really need to do is talk to your GM about your concept. If he's onboard with it, maybe he'll let you convert your TL8 skills to TL4 ones after a few weeks living at TL4 or take a perk to ignore the TL rules for skills or something. If he seems hesitant about you making a gunsmith, it might be wise to have a backup plan.

>>49318623
>Merciful Christ, he's either a serious member of the Cult of Stat Normalisation, you're in for a brutal low-fantasy buttfucking or you're expected to add a bunch of stuff after character creation. Hopefully the latter.

I believe we're meant to be youngish normal people who grow into proper Player Character adventurers through play.

>see if he is using alternative talent benefits (if he is, it's fucking fantastic, because it offsets improvised equipment penalties).

Can you talk more about this? Like page and stuff? I'm new to GURPS and I think the GM has only played a couple of sessions.

>Does your GM consider lowered attributes to count towards the disadvantage limit? If he does, you're over it. If he doesn't, buy Per and Will down a bit to save points.

Don't think so?

>Basically, it's hard to advise you how to proceed without knowing what your GM is like. At a guess, he's probably going to be handing out xp by the bushel-load and you should invest in attributes and talents which will make the relevant skills more effective when you learn them rather than sinking all your points into skills.

Well, I can increase my attributes but not my modern day skills.

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>>49318303

This is the only one I know of. It's decent, if a bit sparse on some details (and modified RPM fits much better than the default magic system).

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>>49318303
>>49318760

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>>49318780

>>49318715
>>49318623
Edited my sheet.

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>>49318901
Fuck I forgot to include it.

>>49318760
>>49318780
>>49318812
Amazing, dude. Thanks.

>>49318474
>Can I add the Reduced Fatigue Cost to Magery so that I can spam cheap blast spells?
No. Reduced Fatigue Cost affects the advantage, not the spells which the advantage helps you buy.

Consider a heavily limited Mana Enhancer as an option; it's a lot of points, but it basically lets you cast anything for free if you can get the local mana level high enough.

Also take a look at the options in Thaumaturgy; even if your campaign doesn't use them as standard, it may be possible to unlock them with the Perks form Magical Styles.

>It feels slightly better than just buying Innate Attack with Malediction.

You don't need to put malediction on an innate attack to turn it into a missile spell. Just add 'mana sensitive, -10%' and it's good to go. See page 34 of the basic set.

And there's no reason to not use innate attacks as spells. There are multiple official magic systems which use them. It's perfectly legit.

>>49318715
>Can you talk more about this? Like page and stuff?
It's in the supplement Power-Ups 3: Talents. Basically, it's an alternative to the usual bonus to reaction rolls that a talent gives you. Instead you get a bonus to some other roll or reduce a penalty. The artificer alternative benefit offsets one point of the penalty for using improvised tools per level. So if you are always using inadequate tools, it's effectively +2 skill per level instead of +1, which makes it cheaper than raising IQ and dropping Will and Per.

>>49318760
>>49318780
>>49318812
Holy shit, this looks incredible. I just wish I had players that knew how to read...

>>49318474
>Innate Attack with Malediction
>Blast spells
What?

Explosive Fireball: Burning Attack 3 (Explosion: 1 +50%; Increased 1/2D Range, x2, +5%; Magical -10%) [22] - 3d burning attack that can be thrown at a hex for +4 to-hit; Divide damage by (3*Yards from center hex of blast). Uses Innate Attack (Projectile) to hit. Accuracy 3, Range 20/100, RoF 1, Rcl 1.

Firestorm: Burning Attack 1 (Accessibility, Only in areas with high ceilings, -10%; Area Effect: 4 yd radius +100%; Bombardment, Skill 12, -10%; Increased 1/2D Range, x10, +15%; Magical -10%; Overhead +30%; Rapid Fire, 5 RoF, +70%) [2*] - 1d-2 burning attack that targets an area up to 4 yards wide from above, bypassing cover and negating to-hit penalties for non-standing targets. It attacks them with Skill-12+1 (RoF bonus). For every point of MoS beyond 0, you hit an additional time. I believe you roll to hit the target hex, and then the spell takes it from there. Accuracy 3, Range 100/100, RoF 5, , Rcl 1.
*Bought as an Alternate Ability of Explosive Fireball - 7 * 0.2 = 2 (round up).

Burning Touch: Burning Attack 5 (Magical -10%; Melee Attack, Reach C, -30%) [3*] - 5d burning Reach C attack. Used when someone gets too close for comfort. Brawling to hit.
*Bought as an Alternate Ability of Explosive Fireball - 15 * 0.2 = 3 (round up).

Ray of Fire: Burning Attack 1 (Accurate 2, +10%, Increased 1/2D Range, 5x, +10%; Magical -10%) [1*] - 1d-1 burning attack. Aim before you attack. Use Innate Attack (Beam) to hit. Accuracy 5, Range 50/500, RoF 1, Rcl 1.
*Bought as an Alternate Ability of Explosive Fireball - 4 * 0.2 = 1 (round up).

Total cost: [28]. That's a pretty good blaster right there. Area attack, area denial, melee, and a single-target that you can melt faces with.

>>49318912

Hmm... you could maybe make him a pike-and-shot or napoleonic era re-enactor or something. That would justify a few TL4-5 skills. I'd drop as many of the TL-dependent ones above TL5 as possible without breaking concept if I was you. If it's anything like the 'standard fantasy' setting it's going to be hard enough making corned powder and flintlock mechanisms and I wouldn't have any hope at all of primers and so on. Of course, it could equally well be a steampunk world just ripe for the invention of the automatic rifle or a stone-age setting where anything made of metal is a big deal.

Just how well do different edition splat books work the 4th edition Basic Set? Are they easy to convert? Do they even need conversion?

>>49319200
Use the stats from the current edition and the fluff from the previous.

>>49319200
For most things you honestly don't even need to change that much stat wise. The only thing that'll be different is HP (based off strength now) and the HT will be weird for some animals.

Relatively new to GURPS and wtf are innate attacks basically?

Do I just think up some bullshit and then add modifiers to the advantage and make it a thing or what?
How many can I have?

>>49319539
>Do I just think up some bullshit and then add modifiers to the advantage and make it a thing or what?
It's a generic damage ability. The modifiers give it shape. You can have as many as your GM thinks are appropriate for the campaign, which can range from 0 to a thousand.

>>49319539

Innate Attacks are two different things:

First, there's the skill called Innate Attack. This lets you hit targets with spells and advantages which work like ranged weapons.

Then you have the Innate Attack advantage. This starts of as a fairly basic ranged attack which does some dice of damage and uses the Innate Attack skill to hit. In order to make it fit different types of attack that a character could have, you add modifiers to it. The modifiers make it more or less expensive.

Say you want to build a fireball spell as an advantage. You start off by buying a 3d burning attack. Since it's magical, you add the magical limitation. You think you'd like it to cost FP every time you use it, like a normal spell, so yu add the costs FP limitation. You also think that it should be explosive; even though the generic GURPS fireball spell isn't, 'fireball' sounds like it should explode. No problem, just add the explosive enhancement.

>Do I just think up some bullshit and then add modifiers to the advantage and make it a thing or what?

Basically, yes.

>How many can I have?

As many as you can afford.

>>49319691
>>49319788
Thanks, I think I understand now

>>49319539
Getting a Magic Based innate attack advantage dose take GM approval. If your GM is using Sorcerery, that's pretty easy.

If you are on Core Book/Magic book Magic, you aren't out of luck. Your GM might just want you to take some spells as prerequisites to it.

>>49314771
Strategically placed Darkness can be a life-saver, especially if enemy has lots of nasty shooters. Fucking no one has Dark Vision. Just don't let any enemy inside the cloud, or you will have hard time hitting them.

>>49314651

Direct damage spells aren't that weak. Archers and melee warriors are niche protected, so you can't really do anything "better" than them, but what you CAN do is area of effect damage, something neither an archer nor a swordsman can perform, and which has a pretty big value in itself.

There's no dodging wide area incineration!

>>49317822
>>49318122
Fucking genius, good job m8.

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How big a downside is chainmail's -2 vs CR? My gut says it's not bad enough to make it worth the weight to take scale at TL 3.

So, how do the super high RoF weapons actually work? I get how normal guns work, and shotguns generally make sense. But, for example, High-Tech has a .45 ratshot round that has something like an RoF of 3x105. You're never going to get anywhere near that many projectiles to hit, even at point blank, are you? Or am I misunderstanding the RoF system?

>>49322012

It's not as if +2DR will make you less dead against the serious cr weapons in the game, seeing how high their bonus damage tend to be.

>>49322017
No, you are right. Even with a great roll and Recoil 1 you only tend to get 6-10 hits. This is an abstraction for things and works okay. Though at point-blank some people treat shot as a single higher damage attack.

>>49322059
Okay. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything. I've got a prospective player that I know loves anything with the word "scatter" involved, so these will probably end up showing up at some point. Good to know they're just as useless as I expected.

>>49322084
Not at all. You get a bonus to hit for higher ROF, making it much easier to hit, and to hit high value targets.

>Rapid fire: 0 for 2–4 shots; +1 for 5–8 shots; +2 for 9–12 shots; +3 for 13–16 shots; +4 for 17–24shots; +5 for 25–49 shots; +6 for 50–99 shots; +7 for 100–199 shots..

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>>49322044
The way I see it is you should check your move and dodge at a given loadout and take the heaviest armor that lets you keep those where you want them. Picking between plate and mail, mail and scale should try to maximize DR vs IMP and CUT then go with the better CR armor if you can afford the weight without slowing down beyond your minimum.

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>>49309285
I would of, but I spent all my money actually buying gurps books instead of pirating them.

What's a good campaign premous for a party of goodish guys to go do in a low-tech setting with a GM that can't into friendly NPCs well?

I get nervous /tg/, and only really feel comfortable with plot device NPCs or ones that are openly hostile to the PCs.

>>49321705
ty

>>49322084
>>49322180
Shot is pretty much useless against any significant DR, such as a ballistic vest. If you use the Optional Wounding Rules (HT162), any gun shot to the torso hits the vitals on a 1 on 1d6. That's scary as fuck.

High value targets generally don't have kevlar protecting them. To eat the penalty for targeting, say, the face, you don't need a high Guns (Shotgun) skill to manage that ten yards out - only 12, plus a turn Aiming, and two 1x9 shells. Now you've got 14 to hit the face, and since you have Rcl 1 with shotshells, they're going to need a very nice dodge roll to escape unscathed.

>>49322271
Settling/exploring/conquering untamed wilderness/dungeons. Slaying the evil Lich-Witch of the Spider Swamps. An action-focused campaign that ignores or sweeps social stuff under the rug is exactly what you want - such as what Dungeon Fantasy provides.

If you aren't doing fantasy, then there'll be a lack of nice and easy remorseless monsters to slay by the bushel, but it's not impossible. PCs could be the crown's troubleshooters, cleaning up bands of bandits terrorizing the roads, or a military campaign where they're separated from their army and need to fight their way back through hostile forces, along the way just happening to capture/kill one/some very important people important to the evil opposition's plans.

>>49322012
I agree with >>49322212. Remember that you can layer armor, and ignore the -1 to DX with Suit Familiarity (Layered Armor), MA52. I'm not sure how much you're able to carry, but layering armor can be cheaper and lighter for the same DR than a single piece of armor might have. Padded cloth and light layered cloth are good picks for layering, as both provide DR against all wounding modifiers.

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>>49322271

Stop being so fucking nervous. I mean, you GM. How can you suffer from social anxiety?

Just write down a handful of names beforehands. Describe each character by what they want. Add a note of what they sound like and how they look. Easy.

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>>49322271

Make the Common Folk short, underfed and very shy around player characters, with only outspoken jerks being willing to brave talking to them most of the time.

As far as basic story where they won't deal with nice people, how about the players as the only people fit to fight and defend a grim and half ruined fortress? Beyond the walls are marauders, vicious beast and if your game goes that way, honest to goodness monsters and evil spell-casters.

As the fragile and hard-working commoners repair the fortress and grow food to feed everyone the player characters have to protect the place, then go on missions to get vital resources, scout the surroundings and stop attackers.

Their point of contact with the common people could be a plot device NPC that tells them what the state of the place is and takes the player's orders to the others for what to focus on.

Don't be shy to just narrate a conversation, rather then do dialog for an NPC you don't feel conformable playing.

IE, instead of.. "Tehehe! You are a big, strong knight! It's very strange for you to pay such kind attention to a barmaid like me!"

Go with.. "You have a pleasant conversation with the young woman that seems over too soon, speaking of no serious topics. She doesn't have any useful information to offer, but you did have a nice meal and a moment to relax"

>>49318760
How would you modify RPM to fit with the MtG reliance on lands and location?

>>49323497

RPM already has the seeds of it in its desecration and Places of Power rules.

I'd change energy gathering rolls to mostly require bonded lands to draw the power from, possibly increase the cost of spells so that you can draw on local mana like the default RPM without it being all you really need.

Not totally sure of the right values to use - some of the stuff in the MtG pdf above about mana bonds looks pretty good though, so I think point-wise that could be used.

Perhaps using Threshold RPM (IIRC from the Laws of Magic pyramid), with mana bonds both restoring your Threshold and raising it.

>>49323497
Plainswalkers can bond with a land, claiming it.

They can draw 100 Energy per day from each land.

Lands have a 'color' and so do paths. At least half the energy for a spell has to match the color of the paths used.

Without lands bound to them a plainswalker is 'only' a very powerful and skilled mage/warrior/golem made from solid silver/gigantic motherfucking dragon.

>>49323963
Sounds good, but why link paths to a single color? Each path covers *all* interactions with a given subject area; linking, say, Red to Path of Energy sounds good at first, but Path of Energy also covers Control, Transform, and Destroy Energy, all of which would make just as much sense under the other colors. If we *had* to link a color to an aspect of the spell, I'd link it to the base effect (Sense, Strengthen, Control, etc.).

Instead, I'd take a more abstract approach; if your land's color can be argued to be in the spirit of the spell -- e.g. Transform Matter is pretty Blue, but could be argued to Green depending on what you're transforming, and it's the GM's call either way -- the energy counts double (or triple, or quintuple). Also, all energy costs are increased to the point that casting a spell entirely off of improperly colored energy is insanely impractical: a determined planeswalker could do it, or maybe wouldn't care if the final cost was still exceptionally low, but 99 times out of 100 it's better to just use the right color.

>>49322528
I don't know man, I guess it's the fact that my first two games (and bit of my third, but that NPC was a dick on purpose so it wasn't entirely unintended) had major NPCs who the party dispiced or who thought of as one dimensional.

>>49324938

Then you obviously need to practice more.

>>49315211
>was hoping GURPS was a system where there wasn't really much Doing It Wrong.

Bit of an exaggeration on my part, to be honest.
It's not that you _can't_ make a blaster, it's just there are normally better things to do with your time and energy as a mage.

>2 second casting time unless 20+ skill, expensive to do on an IQ/Hard skill and starting to concentrate is a giant "kill me" sign that lets whatever you're doing be interrupted.

If you can't be protected for two seconds to cast a spell as good as Flash, you need to either discuss things with the rest of your party or hire a guard or two to keep opponents off.
>>Stench
Damage is a little low, but I like it. Seems useful.

It's not the damage, it's the bit about "everyone in the area is suffocating." That's an automatic loss of 1 FP per turn, which is a LOT more important than the damage.

Also Deathtouch is good for damage dealing. Just get a good skill level with Staff and you can get an unexpectedly good hit in every couple of turns.

>>49315211
I also forgot two others which are, frankly, better than all the others I listed: Curse and Madness. Curse doesn't have a resistance roll, and Madness is one of the few spells with a resistance penalty. They both take 2 turns, but that's never been a big issue in getting a spell off. If your party's got decent tactics and awareness, anyone who charges a mage should be putting his back to a fighter, which is as bad as All-Out Attacking right in his face.

>>49315211
>>Mage Sight
>Enchanted (or magical) beings also
glow, though mages themselves do not
unless they actually have spells on them
at the moment
Useful for other reasons, though.

Sorry about that, I houseruled that spell 20 years ago to show both Magery and Magic Resistance and I forgot it was a houserule. Mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.

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>>49322527
>Remember that you can layer armor, and ignore the -1 to DX with Suit Familiarity (Layered Armor), MA52

>Suit Familiarity
>You’ve learned special moves that offset the limitations
>of a bulky environment suit. You may ignore the DX penal-
>ties for such a suit. The Environment Suit skill (p. B192) still
>sets an upper limit on effective combat skill – you just don’t
>suffer any extra DX penalties. You must specialize by
>Environment Suit skill: Suit Familiarity (Diving
>Suit), Suit Familiarity (Vacc Suit), etc.

>Environment Suit
>Layered armor

>>49326678
>Suit Familiarity (Layered Armor)
Dungeon Fantasy 11 p. 29

>>49326766
Well yep, there is it. In my defense, though, you pointed at Martial Arts, which does not suggest it works for layered armor, and DF probably shouldn't be considered cannon in the larger work of GURPS.

Still, for your standard fantasy game, that certainly works well enough.

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After the End starting wealth question.

Is there a good balance that you can really pick up on that'd let a player take a gun without giving the lower-tech players an overwhelming advantage in equipment? Got a guy who wants to play an old cop that's kept his service pistol working... but even with Cheap, it's still almost $2500 gurpsbux to get it, 5 times the "standard" starting wealth (which I think is otherwise pretty solid). It's a fairly low-points campaign, and I don't want the guy to have to dump half his points into cash so he can get a measly .38 and some loose rounds when it's not going to save him anyway.

Has anyone run a game using After the End rules? How'd you handle wealth?

>>49327788

Make him buy it as signature gear with a nice weapon bond on top.

>>49327898
Works for me. After the End specifies signature gear doesn't cover money, but I don't really like that, so I'd allow it.

>>49327898
>>49327965
You can also just let each player character have a single item that shows their old life, no matter how expensive it would be. Let them have it as a 1 point Signature Gear to show it's resistance to the fickle turns of fate that would otherwise take it away.

>>49327788

Scale back the cost progression for high-tech items? Especially if you're playing only one generation after the end, when more things from the old world can be expected to still work.

Something like... TL5 x1.5, TL6 x2, TL7 x3, TL8 x4 would allow you to get a cheap-quality TL6 revolver for $400 (using the Basic Set price).

How do you get a price of $2,500 with cheap by the way? Or is that not for a TL6 .38 revolver?

>>49329429
I'm away from my books so I don't remember the exact item, but the gun he mentionrd was im HT and had a price in the ballpark of 600. So a bit north of 2000, south of 2500.

>>49329865
Pretty expensive. I feel like pistols should be half off in ATE. Just few reasons to take one otherwise

>>49329865
S&W Victory or Model 10 would do it. Either are TL 6 (x4 base cost) $500 .38 special.

>>49324830

I'd split Thaumatology into the Colours, and you'd use the lower of that or your Path skill when using that type of mana in a particular spell.

Decanic trappings could also be adapted easily - and would work as a rationalization for why so many MtG mages dress in appropriately coloured outfits with certain types of jewellery and so on.

Actually, the new Incantation magic version of RPM might fit pretty well as it streamlines things, though I've only seen the preview.

How different are the monetary costs between 3rd and 4th edition? I like 4th edition's rules, but 3rd editions settings more, so I would just like to know if I could replace the 4E gear books with 3E and not have a problem.

>>49331131

The Model 10 would be preferable, as it is chambered in .38 Special...a round with a higher damage potential than the Victory's .38 S&W.

>>49333318
Though either would be worse then a Model 19 in .357 magnum if you want a mid century police revolver. It's also $50 cheaper.

The power-gamer in me also notes that a Winchester 1887 in .30-30 is the same price and dose 6d at long range.

>>49332625
I love how, even in regular RPM, decanic trappings lead to the most steroetypical wizards you can imagine. Why do necromancers dress in all black and gold and carry around ebony staves topped with ruby-eye'd skulls, even in settings where necromancy in shunned/persecuted? Because fuck you that nets me a -40% on all Path of Undead rituals!

Bonus points for yelling faux-latin and making weird gestures to cast spells; a conditional spell with an everyday word for a trigger risks a misfire, and total gibberish risks you forgetting it, so faux-latin is the best of both worlds, and requiring a hand gesture on top of that is a further precaution.

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>>49333909
It's always good to encourage a wizard to look like a wizard. Making style matter changes things up in a fun way.

Heck, looking carefully at a warrior tells you where he's armored, where he's not, and what kind of weapons he is carrying. It tells you a huge amount about him. Getting the same kind of treatment from a wizard seems fair, and cool.

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>>49334367
>>49333909
its like they WANT me to play the dresden files!

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>>49334391
I'd be good with that. I was going to be in a modern fantasy game of that type but the Lousaiana Floods wrecked the GM's life so he had to put it on hold.

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>>49334508
OOoooh, damn son, thats rough

Comparatively, my game will soon be interrupted by the birth of my second child.

let me reiterate
My game will be interrupted
by the birth of a SON

I think I'm a gamer...

>>49334508

No shit. One of my players got caught in the Louisiana flood, so they had to abandon roll20.

>>49332995
They aren't that far off. As long as you were consistent you'd be fine. The stats are harder, armor, especially, works totally different now, and weapons aren't the same either.

>>49335288
I've converted all the guns I need to convert, and I think I will just use 4E's armour. But it's Ultra-Tech 1 and 2 misc gear that I really want to use, so that should be fine, yes?

>>49335400
I thought the misc gear from 4e's UT was already a copy+paste job from 3e. Or was this stuff cut in the transition?

>>49335493
UT 2 has a lot more cyberware than 4E UT's pathetic selection, as well a lot of neat, and very late 80s/early90s style scifi gadgets.

>>49309285
I am one. Plan to submit the Mongler's pic in place of my own.

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>>49335628
Considering the fact that cyberware is treated as a grouping of qualities, that should be pretty easily translated.

>>49336701
Mechanically, you're right, but it looks like this is mostly about cash prices. I ended up just making my own general formula for pricing new cyberware ("new" meaning "I or a player made it up but it exists in-setting," not "a PC is inventing it in his cybergarage").

>>49336701
They end up being extremely expensive in 4th edition, I've noticed. In 3rd edition, each piece of cyberware has a monetary value and a point value, and the point values given seem a lot more reasonable.

>>49336766
So could you use 3e cyberware prices with 4e?

>>49336818
I think so? Looking over it, there's nothing extremely broken about using them, and the numbers seem to correlate okay. Better than 4E's, anyways.

>>49327788
The other suggetions so far are good, but you can also make it have 'degraded' to a cheap quality weapon, which makes it cheaper too.

>>49333909
Damn straight, the trappings are fucking awesome. Really adds flavour and zing to the system.

>>49322084
>scatter
>RoF of 3x105
>useless
Not useless, I think. I'd allow a player to attack an area with a high spread weapon like that, basically letting them conduct suppressing fire.

For automatic fire, do you roll a separate hit location for each shot that hits? That means you can't do called shots, correct?

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So I'm thinking that instead of using a Giant Eagle I want a Giant Hawk as an ally (Dungeon Fantasy 5: Allies)

I'm not sure what to do though. I'm thinking I can just take the hawk template (p.23) and upgrade ST then change size modifiers accordingly and be done. Not sure if I'm missing anything...?

>>49337474
Not to mention at point blank you'd multiply damage and DR by 52, dealing enough knockback and blunt trauma to send someone flying.

>>49337732
>Knockback
>Bullets
I think not.

>>49337773
>150+(0.5) damage vs DRx52
It's a joke about how in this case, two different rules sort of generate absurd results, friend. In this case, by dealing 15 CR and knocking a person back five feet, but zero other damage if they were wearing so much as a leather jacket.

The rules for point-blank shots don't work with birdshot.

>>49337811
But birdshot, or anything from a gun for that matter, doesn't ever do crushing. Blunt trauma doesn't actually specify what type of damage it is, aside from the fact that it has no wounding multiplier.

>>49337602

Good question. You can INITIALLY target a Hit Location, and there *are* rules for missed/wasted shots hitting the wrong target, but I have not personally found any rules for determining if missed shots hit other hit locations as opposed to bits of background scenery plus other people.

>>49337831
>Anything from a gun

Baton, Rubber, Beanbag

>>49337968
Curses, foiled again

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>>49334367

Not to mention that there's a lot of value in aesthetics. People want to feel like mages when they play mages, so facilitating a "mage" aesthetics is great for the overall feeling of the game.

Now when I think about it, I need to tell my players to quirk their dress sense so they get a bit of reward out of opting out of the most optimal armor/dress all the time.

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So, I wrote up a table of weapons for my game. Metro 2033: New York edition. I've got a couple questions.

>Can someone look over my pricing and tell me how retarded I am? Standard After the End starting money/economy, so $500 + 250/cp up to 5 points.
>Any good names for the two guns that aren't custom named?
>Am I missing anything huge that people in post-apocalyptic New York might come across, or craftsmen/machinists might put together? There's nothing unique like the Shambler, really, and I'd like to change that. (The Solo is the closest thing, and it's just a railcar-mounted yuuge anti-mutie gun.)

I know the Range formatting got screwed up a little bit, there's not much I can do about it; it was a struggle to get this exported in the first place.

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Are there any official or, at the least, very well researched *unofficial* stats for members of the British Special Air Service?

>>49338059
>Metro 2033
>Not in Russia
Чёpт (((

>>49338250
I wanted to work with a different metro system in an English-speaking country. It was NYC or London. Picked NYC.

Thought of another question though. What book would you pull from for post apocalypse armor? Low-tech?

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>>49338059
Seems alright. Going to make .45 Kyba (Cheap) the basic "any asshole can get this gun" weapon at 200? How much are you going to charge for black powder pistol ammo? I feel like $1 each would be reasonable, cutting it to 1/5th of the base cost. It would also make them a great bit of barter.

I feel like you need a .45 SMG based on the M3. Maybe a Cheap quality one at 750?

>>49338309
Good question. Price wise, I'd suggest High Tech.

A TL 5 Steel Vest, for example, provides DR 5 from the front torso for $150 base / $300 with modifier.

A TL 5 steel corsilet on the other hand provides 10 DR to the torso, all around. It's $600 base.

TL 6 Composite Body Armor provides DR 4 and weighs 6 pounds at $150 base, or $600 with the modifier for TL. Much better then you get buying Low Tech armor.

For $800 after the end you can pick up a TL 7 fragmentation vest. DR 6 torso armor at 13.5 pounds, with DR 8 for your vitals.

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>>49338309
Problem is, Moscow subway system was chosen as setting for the book precisely because it has capability to be used as nuclear shelter (blast doors, life support, sanitary facilities). NYC subway, on other hand, is barely habitable even during peace time.

>>49338529
In the event of power loss Moscow's subway system would remain habitable for about 20 days.

In 9 days, fuel for most emergency pumps would be exhausted. Water intrusion would reach critical levels and cause massive infrastructure damage in 11 days. Higher tunnels and most stations would remain lightly effected for the next week, then would begin to swiftly flood.

New York, assuming that flooding isn't why power was lost (that's normally it..) remains dry for 7 days and floods faster.

London has a remarkable 2 weeks of emergency fuel on hand and keeps the tunnels dry like a champ, but when it's gone the tunnels (including many that have served as bomb shelters in the past) would flood.

LA is, realistically, one of the few subways that could be used long-term as emergency shelters and living space "After The End".

That's because the LA water table is far below the subway.

/qst/ should use GURPS, mighty 3d6, instead of all those wimpy d20 and d100 strange systems!

>>49339477
/qst/ should die, all quests should be banned, and builder and risk and cyoa games, all banned, forever.

>>49339517
So true! Together with these pesky General threads that just collect the same stuff over and over and over again! Then and only then, we will have a Pure Board! For Purity!

>>49339517
Dude, quests are gone for good. If you're so analdevastated about the past... just ignore that board.

>>49339692
quests are interesting, only reason to go to /tg/ now is GURPS threads

>>49339692
Bullshit CYOA and risk are still here though.

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Is a character that makes heavy use of throwing axes going to run into any big problems? It's for a TL 3 game and I want to play something a bit like a Frankish warrior with a wooden round shield and 3 throwing axes.

Are there any cool tricks or not very obvious things I should watch out for?

>>49339797
Make every ax count. You can't carry many so wait until they are in full damage range and aim.

You do more limb damage then other ranged weapons. Try to take out an arm or leg to give you a huge advantage.

>>49337646
Isn't a giant hawk just a normal eagle?

>>49338096
I think they are in Special Ops for third edition. Not quite sure how skill levels translate between editions, but maybe tactical shooting or mass combat could be used to figure out a rough conversion?

>>49338096
>>49340310

OK, looks like the standard for special-ops/elite troops in 4th edition is 14-15 in combat skills and 3rd edition templates generally give them 14-16 with an option to raise that by about four levels for weapons specialists. How that translates into conversion between the two editions, I'm not sure. Possibly reduce anything above 14 by about half (so 16 becomes 15, 18 becomes 16 and 20 becomes 17)?

Also, I'm not sure exactly how accurate the third edition version is. GURPS writers generally do decent research, but standards were a little looser back in the day and it's a difficult subject to get hard data on with a lot of misinformation about. Plus, it seems that the 3rd edition templates were written with some considerations for playability rather than strict accuracy.

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How would you template out the average Magic the Gathering Nezumi?

What I have so far:
Nightvision 3, Enhanced Hearing 2, Fur, Increased Dexterity 1, Decreased HT 1, Social Stigma (Dirty Rat Things).
I'm debating adding Silent, but judging by some of the cards they aren't all ninjas.

>>49339797
Well, most of the problems seem fairly obvious; throwing axes aren't easy to carry, you can't fast-draw them, you're throwing away an expensive piece of equipment every time you attack, they can be parried and your range is limited.

The good side is that your weapons function just as well in melee and they do decent damage.

>>49340612
Yeah I'd honestly leave throwing the axes as a surprise attack or way to cripple a limb at range instead of your main mode of combat. Enemies that leave their back exposed or try to AOA an ally get an axe for their troubles, and anyone that tries to run gets one to the leg, but other than that, close the distance and stick to melee.

>>49340541
Make that social stigma (minority [rat thing])and they get social bonuses with each other

>>49309285
Yeah no I'm not playing into their tricks.

I'm not backing or buying new shit from SJG until they make AFFORDABLE CURRENT EDITION PHYSICAL COPIES available again.

>>49341812
You're right. Stealing their shit is going to make them realize they should sink more money into not only making new shit but gambling on expensive print runs.

Or, you could support them so they produce more and see that there's really a market for physical copies (a big part of the whole reason behind the ks).

Or, you just aren't interested in actually supporting them at all and should just fuck off.

>>49341812
physical copies? I actually prefer having them searchable now...

>>49312114
Spell Bullets ala' outlaw star

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>>49341910
Don't talk to me about not supporting the company, you stupid little bitch.

>>49341912
If I'm going to pay full price for a book, I want it on my bookshelf.

>>49342529
Their resource books are the best (China, Russia, Roman Empire, etc.)!
3d6 is superiour to d20 any day too!

>>49339283
>>49338529

Yeah, I've already run up against the issue it just plain wouldn't work in reality. On the other hand, there's at least one group acting as a continuation of the MTA and keeping (some of) the tunnels open and running, some are collapsed, some require overland access... It's not all rosy, but I'm fudging it enough to make the campaign possible.

>>49342128
>Don't talk to me about not supporting the company, you stupid little bitch.
Quite a stack of 3e books. Maybe if you'd bought as much 4e material they'd print more. Maybe your refusal and the refusal of other ignorant fucktards is what prevents them from doing so. Three 4e books in, what, 12 years? Hardly die-hard support.

I'm not sure you really have a grasp of the concept of stupid. I'd explain it to you but I fear I'd have to sink to using small words very slowly.

Hello GURPS friends

I've got a question. Is there any reasonable way to translate characters from other system to GURPS? Some help-tools or anything like that or I just need to get very creative myself with this?

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>>49343982
Creativity is always a plus, but GURPS Adaptations is a recent (the most recent?) release dealing specifically with adapting characters and settings. Is there a particular character/characters you have in mind?

>>49344006
>>49343982
Just to clarify, this works better for adapting the concept than it does for adapting the mechanical effects. D&D conversions are out there; Dungeon Fantasy will get you in the right ballpark, but direct conversions are all fan-made. Other systems are going to be more nebulous; I tried figuring out how to handle Shadowrun conversions, and eventually just gave up and did characters from scratch.

>>49344006
It's more complicated.
Me and my players are playing Witcher TTRPG for over a year now, but the system, while superb early on to teach them how such games work at all, has lots of limitations. Most of the group out of curiosity already checked GURPS on themselves, we played few one-offs and the general consensus is that maybe we should just migrate.
But nobody is too eager to start with new character, while we barely have any idea how to translate current characters into GURPS, with proper amount of points.

>>49344037
http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=122204

This should set you in the right direction.

>>49344067
I know that project and it's faaaar from perfect.

But thanks anyway, this could help with point translation. Nobody likes to loose characters run for 16 months just because system changed

>>49344175
Yeah, I don't blame you. Do you happen to have your characters' sheets? I'm not that well-versed with Witcher TTRPG, but I can do some research and help you convert if you want.

>>49344175
You could try looking at your odds of hitting a bad guy and translate that to GURPS, at how much damage you can do the average human compared to his total HP, etc.
That'd be long and annoying though.

>>49344037
The one piece of advice I'd give is if everyone wants to keep their old characters exactly as they are, be comfortable with ignoring the fact that some people are going to come out with a lot higher point values than others in GURPS terms. Some traits in some systems have way different pricing than in GURPS, so don't do something like tell the players they have a certain point budget when converting. Just convert it, figure out their new point values, and que sera.

>>49344286
A note on this: Be careful when converting, as some powers, while balanced in other systems, become grossly over- or under-powered in GURPS. A fighter's ability to attack five times a round in D&D is underwhelming at best; in GURPS, they're a fucking blender with even 12~14 in a combat skill.

>>49344286
>keep their old characters
I like the characters I create and play reasonably well, but I do have some imagination and so does everyone else, so why would you try to convert old characters to a new rule system - instead of just creating some new characters?

>>49338368
Sorry, I didn't even see this post! The Kyba's meant to be the generic "scrapped together revolver", so yes, exactly. Black powder at 1/5 (three calibers can have black powder) sounds about right.

The Rattler (Sten) is supposed to be the cheapo SMG, but I could see using something like the M3. The issue being the .45 in question is actually .45 Long Colt; Kyba's a knockoff Single Action Army, and the Racken's a knockoff Winchester rifle. If I can fit .45LC into a submachine gun... well, I'd be impressed, personally.

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>>49344215
It's in Polish, but I can give you the basics, as the system is extremely simplistic
Statistics go from 1 to 5.
Skills go from 0 to 5.
New characters start with 35 points for statistics.
Each increase of stats costs more, so to get 2 in Will you need to spent 1 point to get it from 0 to 1 (and you can't start with less than 1), and then another 2 to get it to level 2 (so 3 in total). To increase up to 3, you need to spent 6 points out of the starting 35
For skills you get 15 + 3x (Int+Will). On average, you get 15 + 12.
Humans get another 5, because humans.
Skill cost inflates just like the one for stats.
Each race get own splat, but that's just the starting skills, almost uniform for all races and almost all of them on level 1.

During play, players are granted up to 30 exp per FINISHED CAMPAIGN (but that's the highest amount for superior role-playing, fighting, thinking, talking and so on - on average, "good" player ends up around 25).
Exp is expanded just like initial points, but the value is multiplied by 10 or 50, depending if it's skill or stat. So if you are rising skill from 1 to 2 you need to expand 20 exp, but if you are increasing stat from 1 to 2, you need 100 exp.

In case of my players, on average they've earned so far 175 exp, while the most active one got 210 so far. Which means their characters by game terms are pretty buffed.

>>49344421
Because I'm pretty sure anonymous said the players want to keep their old characters. That's their type of fun even if it isn't mine or yours.

>>49344396
If you wind up with super powerful characters, just balance them against super powerful opponents. You might have a super powered campaign, but oh well, that's a real risk of converting characters from another system.

>>49309430
The rules of this system are retarded.
>No it's the best system ever, just ignore the rules of teh system.

>>49345064
GURPS is a toolkit, breh. It's not a game out of the box; you have to build your own. It doesn't work in a vacuum because it doesn't assume that you're going to play with every single option available.

>>49345051
Original anon here
Yep, the idea is to keep the characters, because that's their type of fun and mine too - keep the story going, change the crunch behind it.

And about the "throw something strong on them" - that's the reason we want to get rid of Witcher TTRPG. The party reached the point where throwing at them anything weaker than high vampires and draconids is just pointless, as they can simply plow their way through. In the same time, they characters aren't anything spectacular, just well-trained fighters.
The reason for it is very simple - in its simplicity Witcher makes a really big deal in any difference in stat and skills. So when you have 3 Dex and 3 in Armed Combat, you can pretty much wreck any NPC that's not at least the same level. Which means 2/3 of possible encounters and enemies are dead before the fight even started, as they can't catch up at all.
GURPS doesn't have this scaling problem almost at all. Which is why its looking so promising to migrate.

>>49345168
The issue is that with a straight conversion, you're already high up even om GURPS scaling, right?

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>>49345064
>I have no idea how universal systems work
We've noticed.

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>>49344037

Here's a couple of conversion PDF's I picked up a while back - though I'm no expert on the setting, they look pretty decent.

>>49345189
It's more about proper conversion of points and stats. In GURPS, the sole game scale is (in theory) from 0 to 20. In Witcher it's 0 to 5. And simple multiplication by 4 won't due - 2 is considered average, 5 is "legendary" and it's really what the name implies. So why translating all Witcher's 2s and 5s wouldn't be a problem (as 10 and 20, respectively), everything else is a mess. Then there are advantages and stuff like that. And special abilities.
It's less about straight-out point conversion, but rather measuring how to fit into the new scale.

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>>49345327

And just saw that these were already linked in that forum post...

I don't like power sources like magic which can be used to justify anything. Nearly any possible power could have the power modifiers: Cosmic, Mana-Sensitive, Super Science, Psi, Pact. Pact is problematic but not as bad as the other power modifiers because generally stuff still has to be focused on one theme. How would you change these power sources so that feel mechanically different from each other and aren't just different descriptions of the same thing?

>>49345528
Have you read the Evaluating Power Modifiers section of Powers, P20? Power sources are mechanically different. Basic Set doesn't do the best job describing the differences, though.

>>49345647
I would prefer these power sources to be even more mechanically different.

For example two mechanically distinct kinds of power sources would be faerie glamours and Wiccan magic. Traditionally faerie glamours have the limitation that they're based on illusions and cannot give permanent effects. Traditionally Wiccan magic has the limitation that all harm done through it returns back to the user at some future point (although I am not exactly sure how to stat that.) Generic GURPS magic; however, can do absolutely anything. I am not sure the limitation on requiring Manna really makes magic feel distinct and like magic has its own character. This is not necessarily a flaw in GURPS because GURPS is a generic tool set but I am wondering about ideas on how to make generic magic (and such) into things that are more specific and mechanically distinct.

>>49345888
You do know that power modifiers are just a collection of thematically-linked limitations and that the ones listed in powers are only examples, right? If you want magic in your setting to have a more central focus or have a specific flavor, then make up your own Magic PM and disallow abilities you feel go against the tone.

Off the top of my head, the Faerie PM would be worth -20% and be made up of Costs Fatigue 1, -5%, Nuisance Effect, Sparkles & Butterflies, -5%, and Accessibility, Not on targets wearing or behind iron, -10%. The only abilities that could be bought with the Faerie PM would be ones that fit the theme of "illusory bullshit and trickery," which includes Illusion, some version of Mind Control, and things like Elastic Skin with the Glamour limitation; if the ability doesn't match the power, then it's veto'd.

>>49345888
Nice trips preteriteeggnog

>>49343657
>people can only play the newest edition of a game

Damn, guess I'll have to throw out my old Gamma World books and 3.5 splats, thanks for clearing that up for me.

>>49345528
>>49345888

Power sources being super-flexible doesn't really seem like an issue, because a power source is basically just what can shut the power down. You could have 'wizard magic' and 'witch magic' and 'sorcery' as separate power modifiers but if they all run on the same mana it doesn't really matter that they are 'different' power sources. You don't have to pay more to have more power sources.

What's a bit fucked is power talents. Sometimes you can get something like magery that adds to fucking everything, other times you need a separate talent for everything, like psi.

>>49345168
>The reason for it is very simple - in its simplicity Witcher makes a really big deal in any difference in stat and skills. So when you have 3 Dex and 3 in Armed Combat, you can pretty much wreck any NPC that's not at least the same level. Which means 2/3 of possible encounters and enemies are dead before the fight even started, as they can't catch up at all.
>GURPS doesn't have this scaling problem almost at all.

Well, it's certainly possible to have GURPS characters who will totally butcher generic low-level enemies one-on-one with equal or better equipment for a relatively modest points total. A couple of combat skills in the high teens and attributes and advantages which let you take the odd critical hit and keep going mean that you basically win against normal people every time.

What it offers is the chance for those enemies to be a serious threat in large enough numbers or when using better equipment, which makes actual armies a real challenge.

For your conversion, I think it's mostly going to be a case of figuring out what the numbers in the witcher rpg mean to you. Seems like '2' is roughly 10 in an attribute of 12 in a skill, '3' is a big step up from that, so probably in the 'elite' range with 13 or so in attributes and maybe 15-16 in skills, 4s would be really impressive with maybe 16 in attributes (probably about the maximum possible for a realistic human; olympic athletes, nobel prize winners, astronauts and the like tend to be about that level) and 18-20 in skills, supported by styles, complimentary perks and mundane advantages, while a 5 would be as you say legendary, capable of feats that might not be quite possible for real people (at least not reliably) with attributes all the way to twenty and skills starting at twenty and probably breaking into the realm of cinematic advantages, etc.

>>49347724
>Bitches about the company not producing printed books. Shows he didn't buy the books that were printed. Makes up shit that is only rational in his own special world.

You do that snowflake. I'm sorry your pussy hurts so bad and your mind is so muddled.

I apologize to the rest of the anons. I shouldn't have fed the troll or stooped to his level.

>>49347761
In my game players buy those on a power theme, like "fire magic" or "healing magic". Anytime their talent applies, you add it. And they can overlap.

>>49343657
Gonna have to agree with >>49342128 on this one.

If you want me to pay more than like $10 for a book, it's gonna have to be a hardcopy. If I can't buy a hardcopy, I'm factoring the cost of having it printed and perfect-bound for myself into my assessment of the price of your book, because I'm gonna need that hardcopy.

As for the ones they *DID* print, well, when I discovered GURPS they were already well out of print. I didn't really start to branch out from D&D/White Wolf until 2010. My discovery of GURPS was more recent.

Had I been around when the print books were available, I would have bought them.

>>49348731
>because I'm gonna need that hardcopy.
And if your PDF+Hardcopy comes out to more than like $60CAD for <=350 pages? Odds are I won't be buying the PDF.

By having to print it myself, for a single copy, I'm already likely getting stuck with a B&W book for the price of a color book.

I also hate watermarks. So even if I buy your PDF to give you money, I still need to either spend hours removing all the visible watermarks before printing, or hunt down a pirated copy to print and bind, because the crap you gave me with stamps all over it is not suitable to put on my shelf.

So yeah, I tend not to buy PDFs these days unless they're bundled with hardcopies.

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Hi GURPS. How do I model someone who loses control over themselves once a month, like a werewolf with a full moon or something? Is it a divine curse?

>>49348929
Alternate Form with Uncontrollable Trigger (Full moon)?

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>>49348929

>>49348929
Hmm.

I'd build it as a custom lense. Using powers rules, and I'd modify the point cust by the frequency with which it applied.

So if it's only at night, 3 days a month?

1.5[3/2]/30.4166~[365/12]=0.0493150684931507

So, rounding, lense cost for bonuses * 5%.

Maybe also include >>49348985

>>49349028
>>49348959
That.

>>49349028
This is how I'd estimate an appropriate cost for the trigger.

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>>49348985
>>49348959
>>49348929
Ive always been a personal fan of yes, being a shapeshifter with an alternate form, but being in direct control of it. On top, I like to take lunacy, and then have a deeper emotional trigger on top linked in. "Deviant Lunacy" as it were, where i have Bloodlust, Bully, maybe even Megalomania or overconfidence as well. Coupled with the self control penalty, it really emulates that classic beastial nature :D

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Wow /gurp/ is really helpful. Thanks.

>>49348985
I saw that, but it's more than they completely lose control over themselves and have no memory of what happened during the period of time. Like a temporary day long insanity. There's no shapeshifting involved, I was just using that as an example of a classic monster that did a similar thing.

>>49349129
well, a lunary cyclic paired disadvantage couple seems appropriate. How about just 'levelling' it up and make it -30, give yourself violent feral amnesia when it hits, and call it a day?

I love Sorcery!
Incantation Magic is cool too.

have there been any further Low-Tech Loadouts releases recently? I'm still kind of hoping somebody gets a loadout set arranged for late 16th century samurai.

>>49348929

This covers the issue if you actually transform into a monster (if you can also turn into a controlled monster I guess you could take this and also a normal alternative form).

If it's a purely mental loss of control, I'm not sure. In many ways that's worse than turning into a werewolf, because people can recognise you and you don't have werewolf powers to stop you getting killed while out of control. On the other, at least you are no more dangerous than you normally are (although for your typical PC, that's still probably pretty fucking dangerous).

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>>49349710
Forgot the image. From GURPS Horror, page 18.

>>49349129

Maybe something based on Enemy? It's kind of like having an evil twin, but you share the same body, which is both a benefit (you can lock him up any time you are able to lock yourself up and he can't harm you without harming himself) and a drawback (everything you can do to him, he can do to you and you are not just blamed for his actions but actually guilty of them so there's no way to prove your innocence). Not sure if they really balance out exactly, but it seems to be in the right ballpark.

God knows how you would turn an Enemy from something that shows up on a random roll to something that happens on a regular cycle. Being predictable seems like it would be worth less points than being random, because you can plan to deal with it if you understand what is happening (which raises the interesting possibility of a character who has this and the delusion that he doesn't). So at a guess it would be less points than an enemy that appeared once a month on average...

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>>49349740
Can we all agree that "gurps-ese" is a specific subtype of legalese, and is ridiculous to see in action sometimes/.

>>49350032
GURPS-ese is beautiful and extremely legible. Not ridiculous by any means.

>>49350072
>>49350032
> all the run-on sentences!
> three column formatting!
> fractions of point value-differences!

>>49350119
>three column formatting
fuck off, I use three-column formatting in my own writing
>all the run-on sentences
I don't see one there, but I know what you mean. Usually it's whoever's writing abusing semicolons.
>fractions of point value difference
...

Okay, I just read back over that, and never mind. I don't get it. When was Horror even published? I haven't had this sort of thing come up with any of the books I use on a regular basis, did they get a new author or something?

Why are there skills like Exorcism in GURPS? Shouldn't those sort of things be advantages?

>>49350181
Three column formatting is terrible. One should use two-column formatting instead. Studies show that stuff is best read in 50-60 characters per line. GURPS only has about 40.

>>49350267
Depends on whether the ability to exorcise things from the possessed is something you can learn how to do or is just something only certain people born with a gift can do in your setting.

>>49350181
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_GURPS_books
>2011
Huh, so 4 years after the Ultratech issues too... Cant blame that!

>>49350299
So Eidetic Memory should be a skill?

If Magery is learnable in my setting should that be a skill too?

>>49350362
>So Eidetic Memory should be a skill?

Can you learn to have photographic memory?

>If Magery is learnable in my setting should that be a skill too?

I'm 99 percent sure there's skill-based magic out there somewhere.

>>49339144

Is this guy right on how to make melee fun?

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>>49350381

>>49350427
If your idea of fun is vicious and ruthless combat, coupled with savage healing rules and deadly life-threatening encounters, then ya!

>>49350427
Seems okay, though I've never personally felt the need to ban normal attacks.

If I create an advantage (call it Hadouken) and I want it to be learnable as a skill how would I turn it into a skill?

>>49350464
Make sure it is less than or equal to 9 points. If it is ~9, then it is a Very hard skill, if it is ~5 it is a hard skill, if it is ~3 it is a normal skill, if it is ~2 it is an easy skill.

>>49350464
pick a skill, anme one if you have to, and give it an attribute/difficulty
Buy it as normal for that skill

Kinda like how you can have fireballs, but need to throw them using innate attack?

>>49350458
>running a post-apocalyptic survival game

Hell yeah.

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>>49350521
The fuck kind of guideline is that?

>>49350181
Fractional point values are everywhere. Psionic powers specifically calls it out, as does powers and basic set (I believe). It isn't unique to horror

>>49350540
It assumes you need to roll an attribute to use a skill. Most advantages have you roll at Attribute + 0. To make an easy skill +0 costs 1 point, average is 2, hard is 4, and very hard is 8. You add on a point for the unusual training perk, making them 2,3,5, and 9 respectively.

If it is irreducibly too expensive, give it some prerequisite skills and/or advantages, otherwise, use limitations.

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>>49345888
>Wiccan rule of three

I'd just have the Wiccan magic inflict a Curse until you've repaid threefold the damage you did.

So.. Drawback (Temporary Disadvantage: Cursed) Only if you've used magic maliciously, only until repaid x 3.

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So this is going to sound dumb but I'm still going to ask. In high-tech for armor-piercing rounds does the damage he multiply after the the damage roll or before it?.

Like if I land 10 damage with a m4 and the damage type is pi- now (because the caliber is below 20mm) the damage is cut down by 0.5 then multiply 0.7?

>>49350628
You'd use a prerequisite advantage by costing the advantage down to 1/5 as an Alternative Ability right?

>>49350181
Only 3rd edition used half-points and I believe all 4th edition books except for the Basic Set are two-column layout.

>>49350381
>Can you learn to have photographic memory?

You can in real life, in so far as 'photographic memory' is a real thing.

>>49349381
Ditto this. Everybody seems to have their own interpretation.

>>49350730
No, the damage multiplier goes before DR. If it says DAMAGE then it's before DR, if it says INJURY then it's after. So the 0.7 applies to the dice roll (in fact, you should probably modify the dice you are rolling).

>>49350749
Not sure. I was extrapolating backwards from a pyramid article for converting skills to advantages. Issue #3/44 - Alternate GURPS II. The last bit I just made up.

>>49350614
>Fractional point values are everywhere. Psionic powers specifically calls it out, as does powers and basic set (I believe). It isn't unique to horror
What? Pretty sure that isn't right. All point costs are rounded up as far as I know...

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>>49350730
>>49350800
I will assume english is not your native tongue

>>49350800
Ok that makes sense so if I was roll 6d6 I would multiply that by 0.7 then the injury would be cut down by 0.5?

>>49350829
Oh okay.

So if I wanted to make something like Magery then I could have Fairy Glamour [10/level] and have an IQ/Hard skill Fairy Fog that would be built as

- Obscure 10 [2/level]
- Anti-Powers [-5%]
Doesn't work in high sanctity places.
- Mundane Countermeasures [-10%]
Dispelled by iron.
- Ranged [+50%]

(which totals up to 25)

as an Alternative Ability of Fairy Fog 3.

>>49350842
It is. Just playing gurps for the first time and it didn't hit me that damage and injury wasn't the same thing sadly.

>>49350837
Read the last sentence again: >>49349740
>add that fraction of the point-value difference between your base and shifted templates,
>rounded up
>as a positive cost.

Like I said, it's everywhere in GURPS. Psionic Powers says to round up (Psi22) for fractions, Powers says to round up (P11) for Alternate Abilities, and Basic Set says to round up under Frequency of Appearance, Contacts, Favor, Alternative Attacks infobox, Security Clearance, etc.

In fact, the most important part it says it is under Modifiers, B101, third column, end of first paragraph.
>This would reduce the cost of a 10-point advantage to 7.5 points, which would round up to 8.

>>49350982
Not sure I get what you did, but myself, I'd make it so that the 25 point ability requires 2 levels of fairy glamour (20 points) leaving 5 more, which would come out to an IQ\Hard skill. Maybe that's generous, but I made it up on the spot.

>>49350730
I think you have that reversed, HP- [(Damage*0.7)-DR]*0.5

>>49351063
If it's rounded off, then it isn't a fractional point value, is it?

What's the alternative to the system they use? Have limitations deduct a fixed points cost from the value or traits?

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>>49350953
take the RAW damage of 6d6
because the device has a caliber smaller than 20mm, you need to reduce the base damage
So 6d6 gets multiplied by 3.5 (21)
Then you apply the multiplier 0.7 (14.7)
re-divide by dice/3.5 to get back to a dice value (4.2) (4d+.2)
make the decimal a dice value as per the instructions (4d+1)

Thats the damage value of armor piercing 20mm rounds, 4d+1(2) pi-
When you actually hit someone with it, you divide armor by (2) and any damage past DR(penetrating damage) turns into wounds based on small piercing hitting that body part (often, half damage, or 0.5

>>49350464
>>49350521
>>49350628
>>49350749

How is this functionally different from just applying the "Requires skill roll" limitation to the base advantage? You're still buying an advantage to make the roll.

Are there rules for increased consumption based on ST/HP? I will run a After the End game soon and i want to make food a big thing, as well as discouraging the; "BE A BEEFY GUY" mentality while still allowing it

>>49351261
It's fractional until it's rounded. That's a big difference from no fractionals at all.

Let's say you have a leveled advantage that, after modifiers, costs 1.2 points/level, and you buy four levels. If you round up before calculating total cost, your advantage costs [8] points. If you round up after calculating total cost (no fractionals), your advantage costs [5] points.

>>49351318
It's not. The guy is being a bit of an autist

>>49351461
You are one weird man.

>>49351300
>>49351259
>>49350842
Thanks

>>49351318
>>49351473
I could create an advantage Fairy Fog stated out as

Total [3]
- Alternative Ability (Fairy Glamour 2) [1/5]
- Obscure 10 [2/level]
- Fairy Glamour [-25%]
- Ranged [+50%]
- Takes Extra Time 2 [-20%/level]
- Costs Fatigue 4 [-20%]
- Requires (Skill Fairy Fog) Roll [-10%]

and also create a new Fairy Fog skill along with it. It'd be nice if I could make the Fairy Fog skill and the Fairy Fog advantage the same thing though.

>>49351409

Not that I know of (but probably). That said, if you want to use that level of detail, Twilight 2013 could be a good fit, as IIRC it does have an optional set of rules for tracking calorie consumption.

It has a pretty good system, focusing on realistic, mundane, post-apocalypse action.

>>49351488
Hey, man, if fractionals saves me even a single point, I'm up for it. That single point can make or break an alternate ability; I've had it happen to me many times, where I just barely scraped by with fractional point values.

>>49351300
Most things you'd shoot with 20mm AP are Unliveing, so it's going to be going from 1/3rd to 1/5th.

>>49351617

Treat it like a magic spell.

There're a few rules here and there about converting spells into advantages and vice-versa, but you could just eyeball it and use an aspected Magery as the gateway advantage.

>>49351647
Well, Twilight 2013 is too much, i was just looking for something somewhat based on reality that would give me like; ST/HP 11 +1/4 meal daily, something arcade enough to not make the game into a pile of sheets with stats

>>49351687
The fuck are you talking about now?

>>49351409
http://forums.sjgames.com/showpost.php?p=221752&postcount=4
They already eat more. GURPS is based on reality - e.g. a horse eats more pounds of food in a day than a human (usually) by default.

>>49351409
>>49351784
Sorry, missed the original point of your question - if it really matters, just increase their cost per meal by x1.5 if they're 13 ST (KYOS)/15 ST (Basic Set ST) and by x2 at 16 ST (KYOS)/20+ ST (Basic Set ST). If they're SM+1, multiply the cost by 2.25? IDK.

>>49351784
i was talking about; "HEY, YOU HAVE ST15, THE BASIC OF AN FUCKING SM+1 OGRE, HERE, YOU NEED TO EAT MORE." or "HEY, YOU HAVE ST9|11|12, YOU NEED TO EAT X/N MORE|LESS MEALS"

>>49351920
Sorry but what is KYOS? google ins't helping

>>49351772
20mm AP is an anti-material round, so you'd use it on light APC, IVF, Trucks, Brick buildings, ect.

The first 3 of those are Unliveing, and thus take 1/5th damage from pi-, 1/3rd from pi, 1/2 from pi+ and full damage from pi++

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>>49351923
I think what you want is below the granularity of GURPS. I wouldn't have ST below 10 for humans reduce the cost per meal, as humans have a basic calorie requirement.

If you take 2000 calories to be the average consumed daily, and athletes eating something like 3,000~5,000, depending on profession, then x1.5 to x2.5 should be good enough for somebody that NEEDS those calories every day due to SPENDING those calories every day. Probably not something you need to worry about in the apocalypse, but y'know, something to keep in mind.

>>49351951
Know Your Own Strength. Pic related - reworks Basic Lift to be logarithmic, and makes thrust +1/ST instead of +1/2ST. It's very good, made by Kromm himself. 16 becomes the new human cap, and ST above 16 is scary strong. Just 20 ST means you can two-hand lift an occupied sedan, or shove and knock over a truck/van. I highly recommend it, as it fixes Basic Set's ST and a lot of issues that stem from using it, such as hilariously weak thrust damage, bears being barely stronger than humans, etc..

>>49352034
weird assumption to make there, mate

Most of my players shoot the orcs, demons and dragons coming through the Hellgate. All calibers

>>49352039
I imagine there's a lot of existing material that doesn't play well with the new table though.

>>49351923
I encourage players to take Increased or Reduced consumption as fits their characters build.

>>49351318
Under this build system, aren't you making it a skill? As in no advantage required, just buy skill ranks?

>>49352039
Right, I forgot: Know Your Own Strength is from Pyramid #3/83 - Alternate GURPS IV.

>>49352144
Yeah, you'll always have to convert. That's the major issue with it. On the other hand, I rarely use existing material like templates or monsters, so it doesn't affect me. I could see converting Dungeon Fantasy/Monster Hunters being a major headache and fucking up a lot of the balance/math, so it's probably not a good idea to use it there. However, it is amazingly appropriate for anime-tier strength, and I'm going to be using it for a magical girls game in the near future. Basic Lift 20,000 is a helluva drug at only [300] points. Cars are going to be pushed around like hot wheels, tankers lifted with a single hand and thrown like a dart. It's going to be absolute madness.

>not using KYOS
KYS

>>49352241
That's a slight issue for me meanwhile, as I *always* use templates to make characters.

>>49352039
KNOS looks very interesting. How does subtracting damage from the die roll work though?

>>49352630
>subtracting damage from the die roll
I'm... not sure what you mean. Damage mechanics are unchanged. The scaling for ST damage has. Specifically, +1 to ST now always grants +1 to thrust damage and +1 to swing damage, no matter how far up the chart you are; swing damage doesn't flatten out at 28 ST anymore.

>>49352688
Okay the actual article has information on fractional damage that explains the problem. I don't get why it is listed as 1d - 6 which can never actually do any damage when it should list the fractional damage notation instead right?

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All this KYOS talk reminded me. I can't remember where I read it but I saw a suggestion for rescaled swing damage like pic related (basically makes swing always thrust+2) and was wondering what people thought.

To me it seems like it stops swing damage from getting out of hand and may make thrust attacks an option again. But I'm not sure if it wouldn't be better to just use KYOS.

>>49352366
What's so great about KYOS?

>>49352983
I always felt like the usually better damage modifier you get for thrusting attacks kind of made up for the lower base damage.

>>49353044
The trouble I've found is once you get to higher ST, swing damage starts to just be flat out better than thrust even if it does impaling. This just happens sooner if the target is unliving or homogenous or if the attacker has weapon master.

>>49353011
First of all, it makes Basic Lift LOG growth.
Also, damage is calculated with same formula for all values above 10, which means it follows KISS principle.
All in all, KYOS is GOAT DESU SENPAI

>>49353209
Fuck, stupid filter replaces words with non-ascii symbols as well.

>>49353011
Makes each level of ST do more at low levels, where each point is +1 swing and thrust damage. It also makes Basic Lift growth logarithmic rather then linear.

>>49353141
That must be the issue. I usually don't ever touch that end of the scale; almost all of my games are high-realism and well within the human norm limits.

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>>49352890
Ah, that's what you meant. I was just copying the table exactly. Either way, it's not much use without knowing the article's rules. Here's a revised table anyway.

>>49352983
I'd just drop swing damage by 2 and scale as normal. KYOS doesn't "fix" swing damage - it still has the same scale from 10-27, but adjusts the swing damage scaling past that. That said, only needing 16 ST to wear a full suit of plate armor (heavy greathelm/torso, medium arm/leg/neck/gauntlets, arming doublet) at no encumbrance certainly helps curb the desire for ST higher than 16.

>>49353011
Know Your Own Strength Pros:
>1. Basic Lift is now logarithmic instead of linear.
This means that 13 ST makes you twice as strong as a normal human, instead of x1.6 as strong (BL 40 vs. 20), and 16 ST makes you four times as strong (BL80 vs. 20). This means that a polar bear's 20 ST is actually terrifying, instead of a target for your barbarian to wrestle. On a larger scale, a Brick from Supers with 20 base ST and +9/+70 SE-ST now has a Basic Lift of 1,590/2,000,000,000. Yes, two-billion pounds. That's punching for 5d+1/20d+2. Much more impressive, and probably needs to be lowered. I'm not sure how appropriate Super Effort is for ST with KYOS, but goddamn is it super.

>2. Fixed thrust damage progression.
Thrust damage is now +1 per level of ST, instead of per two levels. This makes thrusting attacks more desireable to use, and makes animals scarier. A grizzly bear bites for 3d-2 cutting now, instead of 2d-2.

Cons:
>1. Messing with the math means converting and breaking things.
Yeah, as >>49352593 said, if you use templates, or use a structured line like Dungeon Fantasy, you're going to mess with the inherent balance. That may or may not have a huge effect on yoru game. I don't know, haven't done the math. I suspect that it either won't be all that noticable, or it'll be very noticable.

>2. No GCS support.
Terrible, just terrible.

Overall, worth it IMO.