Imperium Asunder

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>>49289454
>Unique Unit edition

P R O M P T :
What unique units or specialists does your Legion (or other faction) field? Describe that unit in terms of lore, and if you're inclined, rules.

>>49289481
I started to do this and realise how depressingly stolen the Hawks are. Their units are essentially a mashup of Alpha Legion and Ravenguard.

Its a crippling realisation.

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>>49289481
Angels of Light obviously have their jetbikes.

Bloodhounds have been known to field horse-mounted scouting forces as is tradition on Karach, but more commonly they field special jump pack mounted reaver squads with breacher shields.

Warp Raiders pretty much consist entirely of unique units.

>>49289974
Angels of Light are literally ravenwing, I feel you.

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>>49290000
I downloaded the HH books for inspiration, and was like oh that's pretty much exactly what they would do, and then again, then again. I got to the Exodus and was realised I've never had an original thought in my life.

>>49289481
Exodus would be a good approximation for a Spectre Operative.

Mor Deythan + multiple bolter munitions would make for Strike Teams.

And the Darkwing / Shadowhawk as previously stated would be used heavily.

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>>49290034

>The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun. Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been already of old time, which was before us. There is no remembrance of former things; neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come with those that shall come after.

>>49289481
Ironhearts could have Devastator Terminators.

Sort of like Centurions I guess, with 2 Assault Cannons, Hurricane Bolters on their chest, and Rocket Launchers or Plasma Guns on their shoulders.

Bronze born and Steelborn as well.

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>Infiltration squads

The Eyes of the Warmaster are particularly adept at the art of infiltration. Since the pacification of Luna, the Warmaster was known to employ his Astartes as double agents. Through duplicitous means they would join the enemy's forces, and with the training of Iterators, begin to manipulate them. Sometimes infiltrators perform covert sabotage, or assasinate key leaders, and the Eyes are always watching, of course, scouring for any and all available intelligence. However, their primary purpose is far more devious: morale. The means employed are various, but the enemy is manipulated from within into fear, disorder, and possibly mutiny. While infiltrators are cunning warriors of things come to that, their great skill is in social manipulation.

>>49290450
>infil-traitor squads

>>49289481
Devastators, terminators, and some light vehicles equipped with rad weapons that just fuck our shit up senpai.

Finally I have the time to post here. Said I was going to yesterday, but I was busy all day.
Gonna be spitting through some of the stuff that has been written up until now.

Couple of things I'm wondering about though. First off, why has the name of the Warmaster been redacted?
I mean, I kind of get it. It's a reference to both the main 40kU and the two missing legions and it might kind of make sense with this Warmaster being more of a spy and not just a general, but I'm not completely buying it.
However, I don't really understand why his name has been redacted and how they did so. Is it unknown to the loyalists or to the traitors? How would you go about hiding the name of the most important person in the galaxy, especially when he's still around?

>>49290567
Everyone knows who he is, and that he's in charge, but no one knows who exactly he is or where he is. His liuetenants on Terra dispense his orders to their subordinates, but no one is quite sure when they ever meet him. He might actually be one of those liuetenants, but no one really knows for sure.

We've joked about a meeting with his close council having his right hand man pretend to be him, while everyone thinks he's the guy pretending to be the right hand man, but in reality he's the typist. Think "I Am Alpharius" but even more confusing.

Ultimately, he's an invisible but known presence.

>>49290567
Its a tie in to the idea that his whole schtick is information. He is big brother incarnate.

Obviously the Primarchs would know his name, but through espionage and such, whenever its recorded or written down it is inevitably corrupted, redacted, or the entire document just goes missing.

He is known by his title as Warmaster, rather than his name to the average joe, so only those who were high up would have known it, and they have no means to pass it on, or to disseminate the information.

>>49290612
>>49290597
Alright, noted. I'd still like to know his name though.
Also, I think it's kind of weird that his Legion's number has been redacted as well. It's obviously XVI, that's kinda pointless.

Gonna start delving into the Fists of Mars and the Iron Hearts now, as those two seem particularly interesting to me.

>>49290642
His name is Jeb.

You see now why he has it removed from all histories.

>>49290642
>I'd still like to know his name though.
So would everyone else in the galaxy

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>>49290701
Hey, don't hate, Jeb's a cool name.
It was the name of my the best D&D character I ever played.

I also had idea. I don't know if any of you are familiar with the Hektor Heresy, but that 40k AU also had a Primarch that was raised on Terra by the Emperor. That primarch took on a role you'd normally expect from the Emperor's 'true son'.
Regal, powerful, a charismatic leader etcetera. I have trouble imagining that if the Emperor only had a single Primarch, he would raise him to be a sneaky spymaster. I could howver, see Malcador doing that.
Would it be crazy to say that, once Jeb (I'm running with it) was found, the Emperor left the training of his son to Malcador, while he focussed on finding more of his lost children?
I wouldn't know what role you've given to Malcador so far, but I could see this working out.

>>49290758
Wait, were you part of the Hektor Heresy? If so, who?

>>49290758
Honestly I hadn't given it any thought, Id just assumed that while every Primarch is essentially a single aspect of the Emperor exaggerated and personified that was just his thing.

It would be like if Alpharius was just found first. I don't imagine any amount of training one way or the other would change the fact he liked to keep secrets, and likewise used the secrets of others as a power base.

>>49290779
I wasn't unfortunately. Once I found out about it I read pretty much everything I could about it, but I thought the project was already dead.

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>>49290758
>Jeb (I'm running with it)
Please do not.

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>>49290808

I agree with >>49290802 that it's mostly just the Warmaster's nature and interest, but I also really like the idea of Malcador being the man who raises him as >>49290758 suggested. In the timeline I put on the wiki yesterday I made some comments about the Emperor grooming him as his heir, since he finds him so early and on Terra itself, but being groomed by Malcador is a much better fit.

>>49290803
Ah alright. I was part of it but I think a handful of them secreted away to a skype group chat or something at some point. That's probably died out by now though as well.

Anyway, I too agree with >>49290828 Malcador seems like a good choice, given how he's a pretty shadowy guy himself. Might also lead him to be more distant towards the Big E, precipitating the falling out even more.

>>49290802
While that's true, Alpharius is a bad example. He couldn't really do anything else, being relatively small and actually having a twin.
It is heavily implied that the Emperor did plan for certain sons to have certain traits, but I still cannot imagine him nurturing his possibly only remaining son as a spy.

>>49290808
:(

>>49290840
Who were you then? Did you actually contribute one of the primarchs?

And yeah, that's what I was thinking as well, but I wanted to figure out what you guys has written up contributing to not-Jeb falling to Chaos.

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>>49290853
He's not a spy, he's a spymaster. He's also a master propagandist. Through morale broadcasts and orwellian groupthink he keeps the imperial auxilia in line, and through his infiltrators he destabilizes the enemies of man. He's a Warmaster in a very different sense from Horus.

>>49290853
Voidwatcher. I was pretty sporadic by the end myself, and am pretty sporadic here to be honest, but I think I added a certain amount of craziness to what was generally a more grounded affair.

Also, I think of not-Jeb as less of a spy and more of a mastermind. He's less of warrior, probably to the Emperor's slight disappointment, but he's just all about plotting and scheming to a ridiculous Moriarty level. His being secretive is less about necessity and more about efficiency.

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>>49290853
>Who were you then? Did you actually contribute one of the primarchs?
I'm not the guy you replied to but I wrote Golgothos and the Entombed.

>>49290853
Yeah possibly bad example, but the idea stands.

As for Malcador having a helping hand, I think it makes a lot of sense.

I mean, Kings and world leaders since the dawn of time have had their sons mentored by others.

I mean, Im sure the Big E was there a lot as well, possibly even more so, but there is no reason we can't have malcador be his teacher/mentor.

>>49290895
I have quite literally 0 knowledge of the hektor heresy but my god Golgothos is an awkward name.

>>49290905
I assume he's named after the hill on which Jesus was crucified, and then the part of the Church of the Holy Sepulcher were that hill was.

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>>49290318
>Devastator Terminators with 2 Assault Cannons, Hurricane Bolters on their chest, and Rocket Launchers or Plasma Guns on their shoulders.

>>49290475
Yo Kashaln what did you think of the Triarii/Principes concept from the previous thread?

>>49290895
>>49290885
Oh shit. Well, if it's anything at all, I thought the two of you contributed two of the more interesting primarchs the Hektor Heresy had to offer.
Golgothos was actually the one that really got me interested in reading stuff on the project, since I'd never even considered the possibility of a Dreadought Primarch.
The Voidwatcher was also pretty cool, a more obviously evil Primarch. I planned on running a Deathwatch campaign where a Black Augur warband breaches through to the main 40kU and attermpts to bring the two world together for glorous, eternal war.Never got off the ground though.

>>49290882
Well, fair enough, but the point still stands.

I'll be off to go play some D&D right now. I'll keep an eye out on this thread though.

>>49289481
Example elite units of Black Suns: Chosen of Komus.
Only a few in the ranks of the Black Suns have walked beneath the Tyrant Star, but those who have are forever changed. Their eyes burn with the madness of Komus, and their very existence seems fleeting like the visitations of it.
They become separated from the normal flow of time and space, and become one with shadows. In places of darkness or deep shadow, they move with unnatural speed, phasing in and out of reality like daemons do. They can barely be seen in such conditions, until they lock their eyes on their prey, their eyes glowing sickly white light and burning with the black flames of hells untold.
They hunt the enemies of the Black Seer, using their nigh-daemonic abilities to close distance to their enemies and kill them in close combat. When all of their enemies are slain or have been allowed to flee, the Chosen of Komus vanish from the battlefield, taking the corpses of their prey with them.
They have a tendency to shun bright sources of light. Whenever bright, natural light is pointed at them, they vanish, only to appear in other shadows. As this means a well-prepared target may repel them completely, they are always accompanied by their light-dwelling brethren, tasked to destroy any and all sources of light present.
If they are forced to fight in well-lit surroundings, they are little more than their brothers, beside their heightened skill in melee combat and fearsome visage, as their unnatural abilities no longer work in such conditions.

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>>49290905
Golgotha is the name of the hill christ died on. It means Skull. As you can see from the picture, they kinda had a thing about skulls.
>>49290924 yep

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>>49289481
Hnnggh god this prompt is my prompt, it was made for me.

>Venator Teams
Exemplifying the Negators' preference for overwhelming killing power, Venator squads take the place occupied by Devastators in a more traditional Legion structure. Foregoing plasma and bolter technology, Venator teams utilize accurate, armour-piercing weaponry - autocannons (often equipped with specialized ammunition), lascannons, rocket launchers, etc. Renowned for their accuracy and encyclopedic knowledge of anti-armour tactica, many Venator teams are also equipped with modified, jump-jet assisted power armour, allowing them to rapidly move from one priority target to the next, and are regularly reported to be wielding all manner of Commorrite weaponry fashioned from the perfidious aliens' vile technology. Some Venators have taken this pursuit a step further, commissioning the haemonculi cults of Commorragh to fashion leathery wings or biological thrusters into their very biology.


I'll be back with more later.

>>49290925
I think it implies that the legion's specialty is cqc, which it isn't. Also, I don't know where all this money business came from.

>>49289481
Second Sons

>Desolators
The provenance of the Destroyer Squads deployed by the Legions during the Great Crusade is usually traced back to the extreme tactics of the Second Sons. The Second Sons were widely known for deploying significantly more of the ill-fated Destroyers, but were even more infamously known to have pushed the concept to the extreme. The Desolators are one of those extremes. Armed with modified heavy flamers designed to exclusively fire the insidious green flames of Phosphex. Their Phosphex reserves, being significantly harder to compress compared to normal promethium, had to carried in large back mounted tanks leaving them exposed to enemy fire and explosive deaths. Despite this risk, they were often deployed alone or with only light escort due to the extreme hazards of their weapons. Despite their effectiveness, Desolators were sparsely deployed, having egregiously high mortality rates. More often due to built up toxicity from their own weapons and the insulting used to prevent the fires from spreading onto themselves mid combat.

>>49291078
>I don't actually have a good name for these guys.
Later in the Crusades a curious and deeply disquieting ailment began to appear in some of the more senior Second Sons. Rather than developing the normal acute radiation sickness and cancers these souls instead began to become dependent on radiation. A light glow could be seen around them in the dark, and when deprived of exposure for too long they would become deeply unwell. Soon it became clear that many of these marines would actually die if they were not being exposed at all times. Withering away to glowing emaciated wraiths, a special unit was created for these unfortunate souls, and terminator armor was modified to accommodate their needs. Fallout would be directed back into the suits from twin arm mounted irrad-cleansers, and they would be supplemented with their unshielded fusion generators. Despite the debilitation, these marines were able to wield the most potent and unrestrained weapons on the battlefield, and their suits of armor became walking radioactive bombs. It would later come out that the Primarch himself was afflicted, and this condition was the reason he was never seen out of his heavily modified armor for the majority of the Heresy.

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>>49291085
This is the coolest post of all time. There is literally nothing cooler than this.

Project's over. We're done.

>>49291042
Principes are mostly supposed to be ranged. They're supposed to reflect the image of Roman/Greek spear and shield formations, but with lascannons and autocannons instead or spears.

The idea of the currency thing comes from the prevalence of a sort of plutocratic system that existed in both the Roman and Greek military structures for much of their existence. Older and richer men would literally buy better equipment, and the distinction between many units was often "this guy has been a soldier for longer and has earned more dosh, therefore he has better equipment to go along with his better training."

>>49291111
Thank you, but I'm not really going for an antique theme. Kashaln himself looks like an Indian dude, with mustache and everything.

>>49291111
give up bro, he is unwilling to allow the spears to do anything cool. He has rejected all offers of adding to them and yet is unable to make them interesting in any way.

You're attempt is noted by the rest of us.
You tried.

>>49291206
Huh, I thought they had a classical theme. Or at least a theme of reflecting highly disciplined, formation-focused military doctrines of the past.

Isn't there some quote lying around about Kashaln comparing his tactics to the tried-and-tested methodologies of antiquity?

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uctu1e353os

>Ironborn
These are true Space Marines, gaining the full range of Astartes abilities, plus a few extra gifts provided by the Monolith technology. Ironborn Marines are extraordinarily durable and strong even by Astartes standards, boasting skeletons of tempered plasteel and a baffling network of internal redundancies that keep them moving through injuries that would cripple or outright kill a normal Space Marine.

>Steelborn
A rare blessing, Steelborn are those to whom the ancient technology of the Monolith adheres with extraordinary ease. More anarcheotech than Astartes, these Marines are immediately identifiable as something utterly removed from their brothers. Their skin is a sheath of regenerating plasteel, their joints reinforced with adamantine servo-thrusters. Cords of metallic reinforcement twine through their muscles, granting them extraordinary strength, and internal targeting systems worked into their irises constantly feed tactical information into their brains. In some cases, the Steelborn even develop more advanced adaptations - personal forcefield emitters, palm-mounted energy weapons, and clandestine monomolecular blades have all been reported among Steelborn Marines. In a few exceptionally rare cases, Steelborn of the Iron Hearts have been blessed with the ability to project a searing volkite pulse from their eyes.

>>49291766
interesting take.

I would have done iron born as regular astartes + FNP from the legion specific rules.

Then run Steelborn as lone wolf type units, maybe up to 3 per choice, but operate in squads on 1.

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>>49289454
What about non-SM human worlds?

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>>49292115
>I would have done iron born as regular astartes + FNP from the legion specific rules.

Huh, isn't that was I did? To be honest I wrote these up a while back, just making the legible now.

>>49292429
I invite you to add 'em in dude. It only takes one person to establish how they'll be marked. Eventually I'll drop Hygelac and Milanau and etc in.

>>49291103
Aw thanks.

Anyone feel like statting them? I've actually never even read a codex all the way through.

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>>49292931
Forgot muh name.

>>49292970
I WILL DO THIS.

Or someone else will before I'm finished with the Iron Thugs.

>>49289454
What font is that?

By the way, I was thinking, the Iron Hearts should build the outer layers of their fortresses like maddeningly complex labyrinths that are near impossible to navigate without the internal cogitators they all possess.

Even after you push past the outer walls, you have to brave this perilous maze, and the narrow passages make it extremely difficult to avoid the wall off concentrated dakka the Iron Hearts put down as part of their combat doctrine.

Exalt the dead, for they have known only glorious war.

Exalt the living, for they bring war to our enemies.

-motto of the Undying Scions

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>>49292931
Reposting this because the formatting is all fucked up.

>>49292931
>>49293009
Wait a minute, why do the Iron Hearts have volkites everywhere? They're maintenance intensive and these guys are on the run for decades.

>>49289481
>Jaguar Warriors
These guys are the tip of the spear. They deploy by teleportation into the heart of the enemy resistance and wipe them out. They're given rad grenades, Volkites, power macuhuitl, and can also be armed with rad missile launchers.

So they'd be your 2 wound elite terminators, probably Tartaros pattern. 1 in 5 can take a rad missile launcher.

I'm thinking the other side of the coin are
>Eagle Warriors
Who are more like Iron Tyrants. They're the more mobile heavy weapons squads.

More to follow.

>>49293487
They have a huge domain and a big golden age monolith helping them produce comparatively sophisticated tech.

Also they're massively under manned in regard to proper astartes. Most Iron Hearts initiates either don't survive bonding with the monolith tech or they experience an error and get stuck at just about superhuman but nowhere near space marine. As a result, they have way smaller forces to outfit, and can afford to use stuff that is logistically difficult to standardize for larger Legions.

Volkites are pretty much perfect for a force that is almost always outnumbered.

>>49293487
Well, they've had a quite large empire for a while now. They haven't been on the run for over 10,000 years.

Really though, it just highlights that

1. They have advanced means of production/maintenance through Rubinek's dirty heretek ways.

2. They're the close range shooty Legion. On the tabletop they'd play like super elite, tough Sisters with FNP and the fire traded away for BRRRRRRT. Volkites guns are the epitome of close, high volume fire.

PROMPT:

What common ground does your Primarch have with Primarchs he dislikes or just doesn't really get along with?

>>49294179
>>49294103
Oh! 40k dudes have them.
When they're on the run, they have way fewer, but the laser eyes do something for similar. Which, by the way is super badass.

>>49294065
There's also definitely some sort of headhunter squad, either infiltrated ahead of time or fast moving with special ammo and the like. They work closely with Auxiliae Section 8, who are Xun's take on using humans for Eyes style infiltration. --Xun seems the sort to borrow a lot of ideas he finds work well and he is close with the Warmaster.

They'd also have a basic psyker warrior squad, proto grey knights type deal.

I'll think about it more.
Oh, tacs weild chain axes and macuhuitl.

>>49294103
>>49294179
That's actually exactly why the Sky Serpents love volkites, helps when you're outnumbered.

Do you think the Scions use a lot of phosphex?

>>49295396
I think they're less likely to use it because of the collateral damage, but I think they abuse fire and radiation.

>>49294281
I have nothing in common with the vile traitors, you insidious cur. Eulodius, lock this heretic away in the dungeons, he must be interrogated.

>>49294065
>>49295396
Maybe we should leave the rad weapons and phosphex to the legion whose literal thing is rad weapons and phosphex?

Specializations should be, you know, special.

>>49295801
>>49295975
I'll stick with giant fuckoff lasers then.

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>>49291078
>>49291085
Boom.

>>49296005
To be fair, the Jaguar Warriors have been a thing since the beginning with those weapons.
And the multiple legions in the OU have rads.

>>49296227
>Everyone deploys Destroyer squads, but only the Death Guard had were known for them.

While that may be true, remember that ultimately while all of them used them occasionally, only a handful actually have it mentioned anywhere.

>>49296227
Everyone should have it, it just shouldn't be super notable in Legions where it isn't part of their character, IMO.

I honestly associate the Scions more with grav weaponry.

>>49296273
Oh shit, I fucking forgot about grav weaponry.

I'm an idiot.

>>49294281
As much as Aodhán disliked, and later came to hate, Alexios, they probably did share a love of history. Aodhán doesn't have the same obsession with writing as Alexios or Xun's mathboner, but he appreciates history and mythology to a pretty high degree.

Iron Hearts should probably have the Gun Them Down rule universally. No sweeping advances, but they can, if they succeed a Ld test, fire on units fleeing from them. I reckon they should have a difficulty with running in the shooting phase, too. IMO their Legiones Astartes rules should be:

Relentless.
Feel No Pain.
Gun Them Down.
Calculated Pace - no going to ground voluntarily, dangerous terrain reduced to difficult terrain, no pinning, no sweeping advances, running either requires a Ld test or has a demodifier, like -1D6 or something. Charging at -1 rng after rolling for distance.

Gun Them Down would probably suit the Second Sons too.

>>49296794
>. I reckon they should have a difficulty with running in the shooting phase

so what about

>Slow and Purposeful.
>Feel No Pain.
>Gun Them Down.
>Calculated Pace

>>49296257
>>49296273
Alright. How about this then:
Xun drew inspiration from his brother's innovations and modified them to fit his own inclinations.
The Jaguar Warriors are the killing blow, the implacable gauntlet sent into the heart of the enemy formation. As a result, they favor area of effect weaponry, including flamers, and, following deployment beside the Second Sons, components of the destroyer arsenal, primarily rad weapons, used as a force multiplier.

>>49290758
>>49290828
>>49290840
Whoever is responsible for the REDACTED Warmaster, y/n?

>>49297016
He belongs to all of us

>>49291406
>Or at least a theme of reflecting highly disciplined, formation-focused military doctrines of the past.

That's right. I was actually thinking of something like a combination of Dark Angels and Imperial Fists in 30k, what with the average bolter marine being buffed (maybe they get a bonus for being grouped close together or having a living sergeant), as well as having the option of making an elite biker-focused army. Also, once again, there are the rad weapons (I still haven't decided how they work yet, and am open to suggestions).

>>49297057
Fair enough, just thought it'd be nice to not have this buried away.

Also, has enough been written about the Primarchs themselves so far? I see that a lot of the chapters have a lot of fluff on the homeworlds and legions, but very little on the most important and interesting characters.

On a semi-related note. Anyone who was involved with the Hektor Heresy, who was responsible for those awesome mugshots? I could never find out who made those.

>>49292931
Oh yeah you did, i guess i could have said the "i agree with x part but would have done y part differently"

>>49293487
Ironhearts have tiny numbers comparitively. I imagine them bwing maybe 1:3 ratio of usual legions.

The only other legion that has an inordinate amount of volkite is the serpents who have sacrificed other advances in order to accommodate the extra forge worlds required to produce them.

>>49294281
Ive written Raydon up so that he works with Enoch a whole bunch throughout the crusade.

His major dislikes are to:
>alexios who he sees as pacifistic
Common ground is the acquisition of knowledge. And the distrust of psykers.
>enoch who he sees as subservient
He prizes loyalty as the most important aspect of life, with duty as a close second. Enoch ironically almost imbodies these qualities.
>balthasar who he sees as animalistic
One of the reasons he hates balthasar is because he struggles with his own inner demons, amd sees balthasar as what he might become should he weaken the iron chains of his own self discipline.
>kor who he sees as a straight up traitor
He actually respects self determination and his compassion. He wont ever forgive kors inactivity diring the heresy though so is blinded to any good.

>>49296005
I agree i feel a lot of overlapping in this regard.

Working on CW legiones rules now
.

>>49297828
It was a very nice drawfriend who never gave a name. I also never saw his style in the drawthreads. Seems to have just vanished into the aether.

>>49297828
Almost everything gets buried. Most stuff just gets talked about in the threads and never finds its way to the wiki.

>>49298362
I must confess that I save nearly everything, but rarely drop it into the wiki, even though I know it would only take a few moments.

>>49298427
When you say everything, do you mean everything you're involved in, or...?

>>49298427
Yeah I have a bunch of .txt files and pictures in a folder as well.

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>>49298505
>>49298427
>>49298460

I am not a very organized person.

>>49298635
First run through of legiones astarte rules. Stolen from the HH books. Need to cut 1-2 i think but cant determine which one.
Born in a cockpit:
All crimson warhawk may reroll failed jink saves.

Strike swift and sure:
- Any unit that moves 6" or 12" for vehicles may reroll 1s to wound for that turn.
- Or gain +1 to cover saves (gaining 6+ if without one)

Adaptive Doctrine: choose one at the start of the of the game. Before deployment.
+ scout
+ move through cover
+ adamantium will
+ infiltrate
+ tank hunter
+ counter attack
+ hit and run

Lightning quick:
- Any army whose primary attachment is CW gains +1 to determine who goes first and to seize the initiative rolls.

- infantry minor tactics
Vehicles cannot be taken in a detachment unless they have the flier rule or no armour value greater than 10.
Dedicated transports must have the flier special rule.

Travel light:
Detachments with CW as the primary force cannot take heavy support choice until fast attack options are full.

The only problem so far is land speeders i think have armour 11 (?) And fire raptors are heavy supports.

But this is the jist.

>>49298880
All applicable ideas, I think.

>>49298880
Some of these are a better fit for the legion specific formations, I forget what they're called, but overall cool stuff.

>>49299867
Rites of War.


I'm thinking the LA Sky Serpents are pretty simple:
Scout
Rage?
Half the army must be a vehicle


Tac squads can take Volkites, chainswords.

>>49294727
I'm imagining that at least during the Heresy, there's two primary divisions of the Librarius. One is the battle psyker, who does flashy things like shoot lightning and strengthen shields. However, there's also a 'support psyker', which does things like telepathically relay messages and muddle the senses of the enemy. They'd stand halfway between a vigilator/master of signals and a regular psyker.
As time goes on, these roles are refined, you end up with psykers trained to shoot warp-lightning in concert, you have telepaths inserting ideas into the minds of enemy commanders, stuff like that.

>>49294281
Good question. I'm thinking Xun has a violence to him that he tries to repress, which is what makes him so uncomfortable around Graha'nak. He shares a fondness for tinkering with Gengrat, and he can definitely be as stubborn as Kor.
He shares a lot of philosophical grounding with Aodhan about the role of inspiration in leadership.

I think Xun and Gengrat probably make an interesting pair. I'm imagining Gengrat as very cultured in his insanity, I imagine they both share a fondness for things like Gothic Lit or movies like Seventh Seal and Apocalypse Now. The big difference is that Gengrat lives with his darker side in constant communication with him. Heck, it isn't even his darker side, it's a thousand machine spirits. Some of them are even benign, but most of them are bellicose. part of why Xun goes so hardcore for the Emperor as a god is because he's afraid of giving in to his own darker inclinations. Ripping out Rubinek's heart was at once his finest and darkest moment.
So in looking at Gengrat, who lives with those voices and still maintains a semblance of sanity is a weird experience for Xun.
I think that's partially why he writes Idylls of the Kings, a drama about the traitor primarchs, it's really about himself.

>>49299867
Yeah. I think ill change the adaptive tactics to a formation.

And remove 1 of the downsides. From there everything fits.

>>49294281
Y'know, I don't think I've thought enough about what Saul actually thinks of his brothers and how he interacts with them. I want to be both unlikeable and kind of outside the majority of the circles of his brothers for a number of reasons, but also possessing an admirable stoic charisma.

>>49300979
What did he think of Sarco before Armageddon? I feel like they had similar dispositions after Sarco's interment.

>>49301023
See, that's actually a problem I'm having. I have the character and his context visualized a certain way in my head, but I'm now realizing he would probably get on at least politely with a good number of his brothers. At least from how things have panned out.

>>49300979
Well i hope it fits, but ive already written Saul into Raydons close-circle. Along with Aodhan.

I imagine them as a little tripod of bros. But if it doesnt fit well i can change it.

>>49301281
I can't remember, what did Raydon think about Sarco pre-interment? I think you might have only spoken about how he felt about the Scions as a whole.

>>49301302
I honeslty dont remember reading anything about him prior to internment apart from references to tarzan. So im not sure.

>>49289481
>Behemoth Guard
Besides the obvious abomination engines, daemon engines, and those cool dreads from last thread, I'm thinking the Behemoth Guard would also get access to imperial vehicles, sort of like a +25 points to refit it for them, gives it a BS4. Then they can mount an arcane array of odds and ends, so you might end up with a 10 man tac squad taking a Chimera as a DC, upgrading the thing with hellfire gargoyles, dirge casters, and an anabaric ram. Resulting tank would have an auto cannon that causes soul blaze or what have you, inflicts haywire hits on a ram, and suppresses over watch, all while carting around 12 marines at a total cost of like 110 points or something.

Another squad might take a Dracosan and outfit the fucker with the usual flareshield, but also throw on unholy icons to guide in deep striking daemons, and mechadendrites which can do cc attacks.
Things like that.

>>49301977
I think the Behemoth Guard would also have a special tech marine unit, a thrall-herd. Each one could be given some number of servitors/thralls, each of which could be upgraded for varying points costs. So maybe you start with a basic T3 S3, but can give +1s to a stat for a fee. Then you can give various melee weapons like arco-flails or power blades and various nasty things like combat stims.

So you might have something where you start with effectively a guardsman for 3 points and can upgrade them into WS4 S5 T5 W3 A5 I5 4+ FNP monsters for like 30 points. Or just run a horde of 30 geq.

>>49302075
I can also imagining them have an improved breacher unit, akin to the Medusa Immortals in that they'd be highly cybernetic, though the Behemoth Guard probably gear them for melee. Maybe some sort of nasty shotgun weapon that has an integrated axe or something and a big spiked shield.

>>49301385
Pre-interment, Sarco acted a lot like Aodhan, but was more focused on stealth operations than destroying big targets. He opined that glory could be gained by hitting an enemy hard and fast from a place that they couldn't expect and couldn't follow, an idea that pervades in some of the Scions' successor chapters to the 42nd millenium.

>>49302268
So thats his way of war. But what was he actually like?

Was he dour and stern or boisterous. How did he treat his brothers, sons, what kind of weapons did he use. Where could he be found in a battle. How did he respond to confrontation. If one of his subordinates failed him how would he respond. Etc etc

>>49302304
Sarco was often seen as jolly, sometimes too much so for his own good. When his Terran sons came to him with concerns over their relationship with marines from Amaranth, he deftly ignored their complaints to focus on crusading to bring more planets into the Imperium's fold. He did not harbor resentments for any of his brothers, and if he had any reservations about working with them he kept them to himself. During battle, Sarco could often be found infiltrating behind enemy lines with those of his sons he deemed worthy of joining him. He saw failure as a chance to learn from one's mistakes and, at his most severe, would relegate an inept commander to a position at a quiet garrison safely within imperial space.

Basically what I'm trying to say is he didn't like confrontation (at least with other humans), preferring to have a laugh with his brothers and bring himself and the Imperium glory.

>>49302304
What kind of parties did he have, if any.
What character traits did he look for in his subordinates. Etc

>>49302466
So how would he respond to:
>Was jolly
Meaning carefree. Irresponsible.
>ignored concerns from subordinates
Poor leader lacking social skills and empathy
>deployed behind enemy lines
Again poor leader. Away from the main effort and unable to coordinate the larger battle.
>forgave failures
Weak. Unable to hold his commanders to standard
>sent off to quiet garrison
Weak unable to make the hard decisions and punish.

>didnt like confrontation
Cared more about being liked than doing his job

If possible reply as he would to the criticsm

>>49302604
You know what, I feel like I'm contradicting what I've said in previous threads. I'm making him seem less prideful than I've said in the past. He seems way too beta in the description I've given.

If I could describe him by comparing him to OU primarchs, I'd say he's like if Corax had the attitude of Russ and the martial skill of Fulgrim.

>>49302737
That wasnt meant to make him sound shit or anything. Sorry if thats what you took away.

It'sjust raydon was a harsh critic. To himself and others. That was questions youd have gotten from raydon (probably on a bad day). But its still more or less his poijt of views

>>49302781
No I understand, I just felt like I was contradicting myself from what I've said in the past. I want to clarify what I said about confrontation: he didn't like it when his brothers had disagreements, so he'd try to defuse the situation. If someone was obviously in the wrong he wouldn't hesitate to tell them so.

>>49302897
Do you want to try and answer the posted questions again. More in line with your concepts then?

>>49289481
Oathsworn would have something like Thunder-Warrior lite terminators based on genetic research, and a god damn bio engineered space dragon for their lord of war.

>>49302956
Kek.

The oathsworn in the 40k timeline could have an average tac marine as a lord of war they are that bloody rare

>>49302920
Yeah sure, but then I'm going to bed.

>Meaning carefree. Irresponsible.
You are a fool if you do not want to enjoy the fruits of our struggle, brother. Your mood may suit you during wartime, but what about after the crusade ends?

>Poor leader lacking social skills and empathy
[That was a more internal affair and I don't think Raydon would have heard of it.]

>Again poor leader. Away from the main effort and unable to coordinate the larger battle.
How will my sons gain glory if all they do is take orders from me? Besides, the best vantage point is in the middle of the enemy force.

>forgave failures
[I'm not sure what the OU primaries did in cases like these, so I don't really have a good point of reference. I'm sure at least some of them did similar things to relegating them to a garrison somewhere.]

>cared more about being liked than doing his job
I do my job fine, and when I am with my brothers I'd rather focus on spreading the Imperial Truth than bickering over trivialities.

>>49303126
I meant more the questions themselves rather than Raydons criticisms of your answers but it still works i guess.

Someone pointed out earlier that while we have decent descriptions of the legions the Primarchs personalities and such were still largely blank. So..

Mega prompt:

What is the primarchs demeanour. (20 words ish)
How did they treat their brothers/sons/father?
Where could they be found most readily in a standard battle?
How did they respond to confrontation
How did they respond to failure
How did they respond to criticism
How did they respond to their subordinates failures
How did they reward success
Who did they surround themselves with and why?
If they kept an honour guard of the 'worthy' - what was the criteria to join?
If they were to throw a party what would it look like, who would be invited, and where would it be held?
Whats their favourite colour and why?
How did they speak?
How did they look? Facial features, general size, markings, hair, eyes.
If they had a spirit animal, what would it have been.

>>49303276
And for those of you who wrote up 2 Primarchs make sure you answer with as much detail for the 2nd as you do for the firsr.

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>>49303276
>What is the primarchs demeanour. (20 words ish)
Alexios is regal, refined, and taciturn. He exhudes a sense of authoritative wisdom, but that wisdom has a malicious, cruel tone. He calculates every movement, every word, and every finite detail of his appearance.
>How did they treat their brothers/sons/father?
Alexios is strict and has exact expectations. If you meet those expectations, he will shout your praises from the rooftops, as he did for the Warmaster before the heresy. If you disappoint him, he is swift and accurate in his criticisms. He has a habit of calling the other primarchs 'Little Brother," except for Faustus and REDACTED, both of which he looked up to.
>Where could they be found most readily in a standard battle?
Alexios leads from the rear, coordinating battleplans in a command center with an array of cogitator servitors, intelligence officers, command personnel, etc. When actually on the battlefield he commands from high above via a modified landspeeder.
>How did they respond to confrontation
With condescension.
>How did they respond to failure
Poorly.

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>>49303500
>How did they respond to criticism
He wouldn't listen, his pride is too strong. He sees criticisms of himself as failures of the speaker to recognize brilliance.
>How did they respond to their subordinates failures
Mercilessly. He cannot abide a plan going afoul.
>How did they reward success
Gloriously. There are millions of battle honors a soldier can earn and they all increase his possibility of promotions.
>Who did they surround themselves with and why?
Clever minds. He values great thinkers above all else.
>If they kept an honour guard of the 'worthy' - what was the criteria to join?
The Pantheon consists of the oldest space marines in the legion. Battle-hardened veterans of the crusade.
>If they were to throw a party what would it look like, who would be invited, and where would it be held?
Ecclesiastical ceremonies with chanting monks and fine vintage.
>Whats their favourite colour and why?
Purple because it is the color of royalty.
>How did they speak?
So quietly you have to strain to hear.
>How did they look? Facial features, general size, markings, hair, eyes.
Pic related.
>If they had a spirit animal, what would it have been.
Imperial Eagle

>>49303516
Im intrigued by the description of merciless, in response to failures. And 'poor' in regards to his own.

2 scenarios.

1. He plans an operation or battle or invasion what have you, and it goes horribly horribly wrong. Maybe he underestimated the defenders tenacity, weapon systems, or maybe he just bungled his own orders. Assigning 2 peope to achieve the same thing while leaving a gap elsewhere. Whatever. The point is caastrophic failure. Angels dead by the hundreds, ships damaged etc.

Define what 'poor' is in this scenario.

The second is one of his favoured subordinates is in charge of the above, exact same scenario but this time instead of him its one of his senior commanders.

What is his 'merciless' response to such a failure.

Also, well done on having a consistent, well thought out character.

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>>49303614
1. He'd disappear into a library for months and brood, leaving his commanders to pick up the pieces. After the Heresy ends and the Council of Titans for example he disappears for decades, everything he believed having been proven wrong. He doesn't know how to deal with that.

2. He'd quietly leave the room, seething with anger. Two weeks later serious demerits would appear on that commander's record, and many of his commendations would be redacted. He'd find himself commanding the garrison of the fifth moon of the ass end of nowhere.

>>49303689
I like it.

I had envisioned something harsher for merciless, but i guess in a culture like the angels, that would be a serious hammer blow to ones self identity, not to mention how his peers would treat him. I can imagine his peers would begin to avoid a commander like that. The 'silent shun'

>>49303689
You should do balthasar (?) As well.

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>>49303276
OK now for Balthasar. Mostly from a pre-heresy perspective.

>What is the primarchs demeanour. (20 words ish)
Loud, boisterous, and sanguine. He often makes wild japes or speaks sarcastically. Underneath that cheerful exterior, however, lurks a psychopathic bloodlust. He once had a girl flayed alive in the hunting lodge, and while his Karachian brothers laughed uproariously, the Terran-born men were horrified. Robert Baratheon mixed with The Comedian.
>How did they treat their brothers/sons/father?
He treats everyone like he's their best friend. It's as though he presumes friendship automatically. He calls all of his brothers by ironic nicknames, and is quick to give them a pat on the back or even occasionally a bear hug.
>Where could they be found most readily in a standard battle?
Alternatively on the front spilling blood for the blood god and in command coordinating the hunt. He tries to fulfill both roles.
>How did they respond to confrontation
Rude or argumentative confrontation would be met with anger and boiling blood. He's not above brawling with his brothers, but those brawls often end in both men laughing rather than yelling.
>How did they respond to failure
Through self depricating humor and redoubling his efforts. Balthasar is relentless and sees failures as merely first attempts.
>How did they respond to criticism
Serious, specific, and respectful criticism would be considered, discussed, and addressed, and his bond would grow with the speaker for their honesty. Rude or disrespectful criticism like that Alexios gives would be snidely brushed off with a witty retort. He has no interest in blowhards except to take the wind from their sails.

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>>49303946
>How did they respond to their subordinates failures
By mocking them.
>How did they reward success
Personal closeness, public glory, and better prey in future.
>Who did they surround themselves with and why?
Balthasar's hunting pack consists primarily of his revolutionary brothers from Karach, but he keeps a few Terran legionaries with good heads on their shoulders to add fresh perspectives.
>If they kept an honour guard of the 'worthy' - what was the criteria to join?
Hunt and kill a beast no man has ever killed before.
With your bare hands.
Alone.
In the dark.
>If they were to throw a party what would it look like, who would be invited, and where would it be held?
Men in a hunting lodge banging their heads to heavy metal, drinking ale, and sharing tales of battle.
>Whats their favourite colour and why?
Whatever color the blood of his enemies is.
>How did they speak?
IN A DEEP, LOUD, VOICE FOR ALL TO HEAR
>How did they look? Facial features, general size, markings, hair, eyes.
Pics related.
>If they had a spirit animal, what would it have been.
A hunting dog, duh.

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>>49303958
Here's a bonus description from the Heresy when he's pretty close to becoming a daemon prince. Pic related is what he looks like once he goes full werewolf.

>Through the great bronze doorway came Balthasar Bornhold, Primarch of the Bloodhounds. Every inch of the primarch's skin was covered in a thick red mane of fur, ranging from the bright red of a hot brand, to the dull brown of dried blood. He wore bronze banded armor, twisted with iconography of screaming faces, snarling hounds, and dark riders. His vambraces and gauntlets were matte black ceramite, gouged with a thousand scrapes. His right gauntlet ended in a power talon, fueled by glowing red power cables like arteries. In his left hand he bore a long bastard's sword made of black flint. Shards had been visibly broken from the blade, turning it into a cruel, jagged thing.

>Flanking the Red Lord were General Captain Cullen, Master of the Legion, and Lord Overseer Lazaar, the Mouth of the Warmaster. Captain Cullen's armor was bright and ostentatious, decorated with rubies. Overseer Lazaar wore no visible armor, covering himself with an oily black cowl. The black robes seemed to drip and flow like resinous pitch, and underneath Lazaar's cowl floated two bronze stars and a bright white smile like a crescent moon.

>>49303946
>>49303958
Wow, this actually sounds like someone Raydon should get along with fairly well, I think the only thing that would stop them is Raydon's "gut" warning him, making him feel uneasy around Balthasar.

I imagine it almost being a Russ/Lion scenario. Raydon would have almost no reason to dislike Pre-Heresy Balthasar, but at the same time - would, he might even feel bad about disliking him, thinking its unreasonable.

>>49304119
I think in terms of compatibility the Negators and the Warhawks are at the top of Balthasar's list.

He and Aodhan would probably be super fucking close, occasionally arguing over their different opinions of the Warmaster, but otherwise like peas in a fuckin pod.

>>49303276
>What is the primarchs demeanour. (20 words ish)
holds himself to an incredibly high standard, and others as well. tendency to brood, rarely sharing his thoughts with anyone without encouragement. He was never anything other than his own master and despite his ego, he never attempted to be anything other than what he was.

>How did they treat their brothers/sons/father?
Exactly that, as family. He liked some more than others, but always as family.

>Where could they be found most readily in a standard battle?
In the thick of it, where fighting was hardest, or victory least sure. He was arguably a poor overall commander due to his tendency to get stuck in, rather than actually lead.

>How did they respond to confrontation
He would go with his 'gut', nothing would be out of the question. He might respond with violence, he might respond with a wall of silence.
>How did they respond to failure
He would go back and study meticulously what went wrong, he would seek out guidance, and do his best to ensure it didn't happen again.
>How did they respond to criticism
From his close circle, well. He would often ask for it in fact.
From outside his circle, with a wall of silence. He would still take it on board most likely, but wouldn't give anyone the satisfaction of knowing.

>How did they respond to their subordinates failures?
He would mark them, then either send them on a redemption quest, or if grave enough, keep them around as 'marked' individuals.

How did they reward success?
Various ways, most likely a unique marking. Or give them a command appointment. Those who demonstrated unique talent would enter his command circle.

tbc

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>>49304206
Who did they surround themselves with and why?
He kept around a command group of individuals who excelled at certain roles. His Legion 2IC was a great coordinator, which allowed him to dig into battle knowing someone else was handling the logistics. He had a herald to do the talking for him, a Vigilator who was almost as sneaky, and a Ship XO who he trusted to look after his personal ship when he was off doing other things. He didn't want to do everything, so found others who did as good or better and used them.

>If they kept an honour guard of the 'worthy' - what was the criteria to join?
As above. Those who excelled at things he didn't do well, or things he couldn't do all the time.
>If they were to throw a party what would it look like, who would be invited, and where would it be held?
Aodhan, Klaus, Xun, Rubinek, Sinistrum and Saul. He only grew close with Xun towards the end of the Crusade. It would be a board game night or murder mystery.
>Whats their favourite colour and why?
Crimson or grey.
How did they speak?
He spoke confidently, his 'gut' always showed him the most righteous path so he acted always with supreme confidence. He trusted its judgement.
>How did they look? Facial features, general size, markings, hair, eyes.
Pic related

>If they had a spirit animal, what would it have been.
A bird of prey, or a penguin.

Idea for character that doesn't belong to my own legion.

First Lieutenant Jones, Captain of the 'Covenant Arcanum'.

Once a loyal and true believer of the Great Angel of Light, and the Emperor Beloved by All. Jones was a Captain in the Falcons Millennial Chapter, but has long since abandoned these beliefs and in turn his chapter. He grew to believe that their search for knowledge was too academic, a waste of an Astartes considerable abilities. He resolved himself to seek not only truth, but relics of the past, lost to the loyalists during the heresy.

His detractors call him a renegade, a rogue, and even a heretic. His supporters, a rogue, a scoundrel, and a hero. He has successfully recovered no less than 3 STCs, a piece of the Emperors own divine armour, and the lost manuscripts of Sinistrum. It is said he now searches for Raydons lost armour, though rumours are constantly abound his next adventure.

While in his home state, he is at best tolerated for his great successes, he is at worst persecutred for being an unrepentant atheist and renegade. However in Forge Space and the Jade Empire he is a legend, the Jade Empire even attempting to recruit him to teach archaeology at their great Academy.

He fights with his signature bolt cannon pistol, and a razor sharp electro-whip.

Is this too 'on the nose'

>>49304492
This is the setting that once gave us Obiwan Sherlock Clouseau, it'll be fine.

>>49304563
>Sherlock
1 of the 2 best detectives in fiction.
>Clouseau
1 of the worst detectives in fiction.

I don't think I even want to know how Obiwan fit into this.

>>49304578
He had enough deductive reasoning to find out the high ground was advantageous?

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>>49304492
>Is this too 'on the nose'
is this?

>>49304858
Well that's not expected to be part of canon

>>49304492
It's pretty cool, it's just that actually calling him Jones is a bit too much.
Change the name and it's a decent character.

We should start adding more to the wiki. It would also be nice to have a universal format for the pages, in order to make them easier to read.

>>49305177
Seconded.

>>49303276
Right, Aodhán first.

>What is the primarchs demeanour. (20 words ish)
Confident, free-spirited, and regal. Aodhán didn't act feral, but he had this kind of intense sense of almost bestial virility to him. He's hugely proud, but, at least pre-Heresy, his pride is based on his deeds and how he treats others, and he was considered kind. He gets more callous, nihilistic and temperamental as he ages. He's heavily based on two iterations of Satan: Milton's, who he resembles outwardly, and Twain's, who he comes to resemble inwardly.
>How did they treat their brothers/sons/father?
At first, Aodhán at least tried to show respect for his brothers, and held his father in high esteem. It wasn't until later that he began to see the Emperor as more of a slavemaster than a father, and came to resent many of his brothers' perceived failings. His sons were treated as adventuring companions; Iason and his Argonauts or Achilles and his myrmidons are a good comparison.
>Where could they be found most readily in a standard battle?
The front, fighting the biggest/greatest of foes.
>How did they respond to confrontation
Confrontationally.
>How did they respond to failure
Depends on the type and level of failure, but it generally hardened his resolve to succeed. These days he broods a lot over things he perceives as failures.
>How did they respond to criticism
During the early Crusade he'd jokingly sweep it aside, during the run up to the Heresy certain brothers could elicit some barbed remarks on their own failings from him, and nowadays he rarely cares what anyone has to say.
>How did they respond to their subordinates failures
Pre-Heresy: "You will erase this shame in future." Post-Heresy: "Whatever."
>How did they reward success
Titles, trophies, personal recognition, etc. Aodhán viewed success as mostly its own reward, as it expands one's kleos, but he also recognized that being personally honoured by him was something many of his sons wanted.

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>>49306824
>Who did they surround themselves with and why?
Pre-Heresy Aodhán had a close group of favoured companions who had achieved great things in his eyes, or whose company he simply enjoyed. He probably liked being around Sarco, Raydon, Saul, and Balthasar, though he eventually came to be disturbed by Balthasar's eagerness to kill his brothers, and hates what he's become. These days most people he has any meaningful connection to are dead, but he has a few favoured slaves, and his equerry remains his closest confidante. Hangs with Vect and the Commorrite upper crost occasionally.
>If they kept an honour guard of the 'worthy' - what was the criteria to join?
Excellence in warrior virtue, strength in arms, high renown. A sense of humour helps too.
>If they were to throw a party what would it look like, who would be invited, and where would it be held?
Wine flows abundantly and the great tables groan under the weight of sweet meats and rare fruits plundered from a thousand worlds. The air is thick with spice, and there is singing, dancing, boasting, and all manner of other distractions. The festivities may spill out onto the streets of the Dark City, or whatever conquered world Aodhán is living it up on.
>Whats their favourite colour and why?
Red. It's a man's colour.
>How did they speak?
Boldly and freely, with little held in reserve, though, at least at first, Aodhán tried to see the best in his brothers and didn't often resort to insults. Today he often gives off the impression of being bored.
>How did they look?
Statuesque. Dark hair, bronze-y skin, strong jaw, bright blue eyes, etc. He was the very archetype of the classical hero, and this was actually put to use in Imperial propaganda ("He wants YOU, ladies, to JOIN NOW!"). Often shirtless. Notably one of the taller Primarchs. If the eyes were blue, pic related could be a good match for him before the Emperor found him.
>If they had a spirit animal, what would it have been.
Robert E. Howard

>>49306961
Oh, and for the party thing: Pre-Heresy Aodhán would probably have at the very least invited all his brothers, though I'm sure not all of them would turn up.

Post-Heresy Aodhán has no Primarch bros left to invite.

>>49304492
Nothing is too on the nose for 40K.

>>49303276
I'll answer this for post-interment Sarco.
>What is the primarchs demeanour. (20 words ish)
After his interment, Sarco is methodical, taking care to examine situations from every angle before acting. Some describe him as having the patience of the dead.
>How did they treat their brothers/sons/father?
Sarco treated his brothers with respect, but now tried to give them advice to overcome their perceived failings.
>Where could they be found most readily in a standard battle?
Acting as a tank hunter while coordinating his forces via orbital communications
>How did they respond to confrontation
Sarco was not afraid to speak his mind to his brothers post-interment. He always tried to steer his brothers down the "right" path, to continue the Great Crusade.
>How did they respond to failure
Sarco took failure as a learning experience, and did not make the same mistake twice.
>How did they respond to criticism
He would take it to heart. He's failed in the past, he knows he's not perfect, so he'd do his best to improve himself.
>How did they respond to their subordinates failures
The same as before.
>How did they reward success
With battle commendations and increased authority.
>Who did they surround themselves with and why?
Post-interment, Sarco preferred the company of his uninterred sons. The fanatical desire of his legion to emulate him in death concerned him greatly, and he felt uncomfortable around other dreadnoughts.
>If they kept an honour guard of the 'worthy' - what was the criteria to join?
Exemplifying Sarco's ideals of what it means to be a Space Marine. In essence: embody the Imperial Truth in all that you do.

>>49303276
Let's start with Xun and then I'll do Gengrat.

>Demeanour
Xun comes across in a blaze of energy, desire to analyze and synthesize. Everything can be debated because everything can be improved and you get the sense he'll burn it to the ground to do so. At the same time he's visibly maintaining the symbols of a good space Confucian rule.

>How does he treat others
Xun himself is driven by a curiosity about the workings of other minds. He mediates this through his space Confucian ideology, so with his sons, he tries to give them a good example to follow and to inspire them to greatness through his own greatness. He's approachable, but he allows himself few friends.
Amongst his brothers he sees a set of puzzles and clues to his own forging. He honestly enjoys the company of other minds like his own and tries to always set an example of respect even with those of his brothers he is not fond of.
He's really split when it comes to the Emperor and Malcador. At one level, he obeys them as a good son must, but he also is curious about their plans. He's not hurt by their secrecy, he keeps his own secrets from his sons, but it drives bum to be worthy of being taken into their confidence, fully aware that there may be things he can never know. He's not happy about it, but he sees it as part of being a ruler and does the same thing.

>Where is he in a fight?
Xun tries to be wherever he will go through most good. Sometimes that's leading a charge, but at other times Xun will remain on the flagship, Wrath of Heaven, and descend only at a critical moment.
>Confrontation
Xun remains calm and tries to talk it out.
>Failure
Xun reviews the event and tries to figure out where he went wrong.
>Criticism
Xun listens and evaluates himself. He knows he's not perfect.
>Failure of subordinates
Xun looks for the reason of the failure and proceeds from there. Everyone makes mistakes sometimes and there are some no-win battles, but negligence will not be tolerated.

>>49309737
>Rewarding Success
Xun rewards success with increased responsibility. The nature of this depends on the person. A good strategist or logistician will be given higher rank and more authority, while a strike-team commander who excells on the small scale will be promoted to an elite group. Xun makes the rewards match the talents.

>Who does the primarch surround themselves with and why
Xun keeps his most talented and skilled advisors on hand as well as promising commanders and ministers. Part of it is for their advice, but it's also to train them for independent command. Xun tries to rotate his retinue, so that he gets a flow of new ideas and perspectives, but also to rotate his teachings back out to the rest of the legion.

>Criterion for the honor Guard
Xun's honor Guard is like Guilliman's Invictus Suzereigns or the tetrarchs. To be selected you have to be a skilled warrior, a good administrator, an artist of some sort (the art of the blade does count), and virtuous. You have to represent everything that is best in the legion.

>>49310000
>What's a Xun party like
It's a symposium. Everybody gets drunk and debates philosophy.

>Colors
Xun likes iridescent hues, colors that change as you look at them like mountains in the mist, the color of the oceans and the skies. That's why the legion plate is the range of colors it is.

>How does he speak
It depends on the setting. In a formal situation, Xun speaks softly and precisely. It's typically phrased in Tepectitlan verse.
In private or less formal settings like a battlefield, he's much more boisterous, though still always eloquent, though in this case, it's primarily to underscore a dark and deadpan sense of humor.

>How does he look
Xun is a an odd mix of Mesoamerican and Ancient Chinese style. He's tannish and has long dark hair he keeps tied up. He tends to have his face painted in ritual designs from his home world. This can be as simple as a band of red at eye level, or it can involve complex geometric designs. Usually symmetrical, though.
He tends to be blinged out, using the trappings of the priest-king to underscore his presence. Like Magnus or Sanguinius, Xun has an ætherial feel to him in addition to the aura of grandeur that accompanies all primarchs.
Xun feels powerful and dynamic, it feels like there's static electricity in the air and a breeze like a brewing storm and the Jade nose 'ring', you know, the Mesoamerican kind, just quietly underscores it. He has a headress with quetzal feathers and jade talismans from the calendaric tradition of Tepectitlan that he uses as casting focusses. His robes are of silk and are worked with a fine fractal pattern, only visible close up. Bronze beast forms are worked into his cuffs and armor--look up Taotie motifs to see what I'm thinking of. He looks like an old storm and rain god dredged up from humanity's dreams. Heck, if it wasn't for the fact that Sanguinius already did the wing thing, Xun would have Quetzal wings. He does have fangs, though.

>>49310446
In battle, he allows his self control to slip and he gets a lot scarier, until he's tearing out Rubinek's heart while laughing and licking sweet blood from his lips. I'm thinking that moment was the most dangerous for Xun. In that moment, he almost held the heart aloft and cried Blood For the Blood God!, but his self control kicked in and we got the immortal For the Emperor!
He tries to do the noble Sanguinius thing, but he's not as good at it.

>>49303276
Anshul time.

>What is the primarchs demeanour. (20 words ish)
Anshul is disarmingly polite and calm. He rarely stands on ceremony, though his constant halo of psychic energy sort of does it for him. At times he seems disappointed or takes on a slightly lecturing tone, but few have ever seen him angry.
>How did they treat their brothers/sons/father?
Again, Anshul was basically chill toward everyone, even those brothers that thought he was a horrible abomination. I can imagine Alexios being a little butthurt over how little Anshul seems to care about what his big brother thinks if him. He thought the Emperor was a flawed man and had made many mistakes, but until the whole Chaos thing, he saw it as his familial duty to serve him.
>Where could they be found most readily in a standard battle?
Assuming he's failed to talk the enemy down, he's alongside his sons, throwing tanks around with his mind.
>How did they respond to confrontation
By listening to people's concerns and responding politely. When confrontations became violent he rarely struck first, but struck decisively. If a world's governors refused all opportunities to comply, it's likely that he'll destroy them in an immense psychic blast, then see if whoever's next in line for leadership is less stubborn.
>How did they respond to failure
Failure is an illusion. If you are alive, and you have not succeeded yet, you must simply take a new approach.
>How did they respond to criticism
See the confrontation question.
>How did they respond to their subordinates failures
See earlier failure question. Negligence cannot be tolerated, but failure is a chance to learn. An Asuran who has failed in their duties meditates upon the nature of their failure and how they can better approach the problem at hand.
>How did they reward success
Usually just with recognition. Improving oneself is its own reward, and this is very much part of Asuran Legion culture.

>>49311085
That's why there's a lot more manic to Xun, which, in part is what makes it so hard for him to follow Alexios. Again, I think that's what really causes the friction. The Sky Serpents need that space for the unknown and while Alexios might tolerate that in an out rider legion, they mess with his order.

>Spirit Animal
Feathered Serpent, the Storm Dragon, who brings the storms and lightning and destroys and then builds with the will of Heaven. Duh.

Trying to keep him clearly flawed and clearly super human. During the crusade, with Malcador and The Emperor in charge, Alexios and Xun brought out the best in eachother. Post heresy, they just bring out the worst. It's only after they become equal brothers under the Emperor that they begin to get along again, but by that point, Xun is with the Emperor.
>>49303500
How's that sound for the dynamic of their relationship?

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>>49312601
>Who did they surround themselves with and why?
Ascetics, mystics, archeologists, philosophers. He definitely chummed around with Xun and Oramar.
>If they kept an honour guard of the 'worthy' - what was the criteria to join?
Anshul's honour guard were all well versed in Asuran parable and philosophy, and generally psykers. He also tended to pick out Astartes that could offer new perspectives or ideas, or provide engaging discussion that he considered essential to keeping the mind keen.
>If they were to throw a party what would it look like, who would be invited, and where would it be held?
It would be a relaxed, low-key sort of affair, simply drinking, conversing, and playing tactical games in the gardens of Ravana. There'd probably be some casual archery competition, he thought of it as the most dignified and cerebral of sports.
>Whats their favourite colour and why?
Blue. It inspired thought.
>How did they speak?
Carefully, politely, and in a manner that many of his brothers found a little disarming, and definitely a little juxtaposed with his appearance.
>How did they look? Facial features, general size, markings, hair, eyes.
Well, he had six arms. He wasn't as tall and physically imposing as most Primarchs, with a relatively slender build and soft features veering a little toward the androgynous. His skin was pale, almost luminous, and his white hair was constantly lit by an aureole of shifting psychic light.
>If they had a spirit animal, what would it have been.
Peacock.

>>49303276
Gengrat Vannevar, The Beast of Terrodyne
>Demeanour
Gengrat comes across cool and calculating. His gaze is intense, and if one is perceptive enough, they can notice the effort he takes to keep that facade of civility. He's very much the Byronic hero.

>How does he treat others
Gengrat takes great pride in his sons accomplishments. Even when they fail, Gengrat is there to help them back up. They're his sons and they are his finest creations, no matter what warp devilry he may devise.
He is distant and aloof from his brothers, in part because many of them are silly fools prancing about the stage of history, but also because he's afraid they'll see what he's hiding. That's why he finds Graha'Nak and Xun interesting, but also distinctly threatening. That's also why he respects Saul so much, he sees the Stoic as a model of self control and professionalism.

>Where are they in a battle
Gengrat is up front, laughing as he and his boys charge into battle in their custom vehicles and surrounded by their creations.

>Confrontation
Gengrat usually tries to laugh it off or diffuse the situation lest he lose his temper and do something "unseemly".

>Failure
Gengrat broods. He goes into his forge and obsesses. Sometimes he makes something beautiful, sometimes he scribbles insane musings, sometimes he smashes things.

>Criticism
Gengrat listens. Usually it's just from small minds scared of the dark mirror Gengrat holds. He tolerates them for a time, before rising mid sentence and, depending on the voices, leaving for his forge or snapping their neck.
This said, he listens to what those he respects have to say, even if they're the enemy. I'm thinking he still respects the Emperor for his vision.

>Subordinates and failure
I think Gengrat tends to be surprisingly tolerant, seeing it like designing a machine. It doesn't always work right the first time. At the same time, they cannot be allowed to impair the legion, so they're typically demoted to Second.

>>49312618
>How's that sound for the dynamic of their relationship?

Good and apropriate. They're similar in many fundamental ways, but there are a few key differences of personality which inevitably lead to alternately hating each other and being very close. They might get along, but once one of those differences is brought back to their attention, they'd be back to arguing.

>>49312980
>Rewarding Success
Gengrat rewards success with increased access to material and forge space, in addition to likely promotions, but really everyone wants the former.

>Who does he surround himself with
Gengrat keeps a diverse court of techpriests, a bit of sorcery, and dramatists. Gengrat loves tradgedies. Some of the best literature of the Crusade Era was written in his court.

>Party at Gengrat's
I imagine him to be the sort to hold a grand masquerade ball in some imposing ancient keep. He'd play pipe organ and he'd forbid guests from entering the eastern wing. He'd very much be the host from your favorite gothic novel, never quite part of the celebrations.

He would also host plays and the like, Shakespearean tradgedies in the round. He was known for playing an excellent Othello.

>color
Gengrat would hear this question and look perplexed for a moment. "I like to watch the colors at the edge of dreams, where the heavens meet the underworld beyond the sea's edge. It's a color like a thousand broken mirrors all echoing faded flowers. I like it because the moment you've glimpsed it, even before you've truly seen it, its gone and all you have are ragged echoes in bloodstained hands."
Then he smiles, congenially.

>Honor Guard
Gengrat's honor Guard is made of the best forgemasters in the legion with their finest creations. These are his 9 Forge attendants.

>How does he speak
Gengrat always uses formal high gothic in public. Everything he says is laced with literary references. He speaks clearly and calmly. In private though, he mutters and growls as he talks.

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>>49303276
Oramar Elthiran

>What is the primarchs demeanour. (20 words ish)
Oramar is manipulative by nature. In conversations he typically has an explicit goal, and has a tendency of anticipating what someone will say and simply replying to it before they even say it.

>How did they treat their brothers/sons/father?
He saw some of them, like Anshul and Xun, as close brothers who would help him discover the nature of creation. Many long hours were spent among the three of them, discussing the Librarius project they eventually founded, the nature of the Warp, the nature of the Eldar, etc.

Some of his brothers, however, he saw as enemies right from the start. He saw Saul and Enoch as nothing more than genebred soldiers. He knew long before Nikaea that Balthasar would one day kill him, and so was always uneasy around the Bloodhounds.

>Where could they be found most readily in a standard battle?
Teleporting around rapidly, shooting the enemy with mind bullets. Any signs of interesting xenotech or xenosorcery would lead him to stop and examine it, trusting his brothers to continue the fight.

>How did they respond to confrontation
By reading your mind and embarassing you.

>How did they respond to failure
Failure is rare when you can see the future, so Oramar is not well equipped to deal with it. The notion that he can be wrong is something Oramar literally cannot comprehend, and his reactions to any evidence to the contrary are unpredictable.

>How did they respond to criticism
Openly and keenly. A wise man is always open to changing himself for the better. Oramar's life has been a continual adjustment to new information from his visions, and he sees criticism the same way: as knowledge he can and should use.

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>>49313866
>How did they respond to their subordinates failures
He uses them as opportunities to teach. He takes commanders who fail aside personally, explains their failure to them thoroughly, and has them re-examine how they would have acted. Oramar uses his farsight to see what the consequences of that would be, and they discuss further until Oramar believes the commander has learned his lesson.

>How did they reward success
With knowledge. The closer you are to Oramar's inner circle, the more you get to know about the warp, but also about Oramar's plans and strategic goals.

>Who did they surround themselves with and why?
Oramar stuck close to his technobarbarian pirate crew from Azrimuth, all of whom were inducted into the legion. They were all extraordinarily close friends, with keen minds and swift blades.

>If they kept an honour guard of the 'worthy' - what was the criteria to join?
His honor guard are the masters of the various warpcraft kabals of the legion. Each one is a complete master of some sorcerous art. In conjunction, they are also masters of particular weapons, usually xenos in origin.

>If they were to throw a party what would it look like, who would be invited, and where would it be held?
If you don't already know it's because you weren't invited.

>Whats their favourite colour and why?
Octarine, the color of magic.

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>>49313877
>How did they speak?
Oramar's words are always dripping with implied meanings and contextual clues. Everything he says is like an iceberg, the literal meaning of Oramar's words only a tiny fraction of their true depth.

>How did they look? Facial features, general size, markings, hair, eyes.
Pic related. Oramar is tall, lithe, and swarthy. His hair is long, flowing and black, but he often keeps it tied up in a samnite headwrap. His ears have a slight point to them, leading Balthasar to often mock him as "Oramar Knife-Ear"

>If they had a spirit animal, what would it have been.
He literally does have a spirit animal, his Warp Familiar Sharsk. Its favored form is that of the salt lizards of Azrimuth, giant monitor lizards who move so infrequently that salt clasts form all across their flesh.

>>49309387
You should do it for pre internment as well

>>49313866
I thought i posted this already, but...

I remember reading Raydon had a permanant mind wall up that prevented mind reading. How would he act around someone he couldnt read

>>49315920
That is true.

It might also apply to the Emperor, Malcador, Xun, and Anshul.

Maybe thats why he likes Xun and Anshul, being around them is quiet.

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>>49315920
If you've never read the Mistborn books, they're about a thieving crew where each member has a magic power fueled by a particular metal. One of the crew burns Brass, which allows him to dampen specific emotions in other people. He does it so naturally and deftly that he's uncomfortably unsure if anyone genuinely likes him or if he's simply a puppetmaster. The main character of the series is immune to his mind control, and he becomes pretty close to her particularly because he knows she's genuinely herself around him.

That's how I think it might play out with Oramar and Raydon. To Oramar, Raydon is one of the few people in the galaxy who he can see as an actual person. When with Raydon, he's forced to interact with him as anyone else would, and that genuineness is something Oramar might deeply enjoy. Unlike the Warmaster, who's psychically...unnerving, Raydon would be an opportunity for moments of mental peace and calm.

Plus their tactical styles and strategies align quite closely, so they would work very well together on the battlefield.

>>49316244
That fits.

I had written Raydon as feeling eeries around Oramar due to the presence of gentle constant mind probes.

I like the duality of Oramar enjoying the silence, while Raydon is constantly unnerved for some reason he cant put his finger on.

Yes. I like it very much.

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>>49305177
Apropo of this I changed the [[Extropian Collective]] link in the factions at the bottom to [[Archaeotect Collective]] so anyone can feel free to build their page

https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Archaeotect_Collective

Which primarch was the smartest and most educated?

>>49317003
>inb4 alexios thinks its alexios

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>>49303276
>What is the primarchs demeanour. (20 words ish)
Distant, thoughtful, and almost wistful, but also intense and sometimes terrifyingly callous. His gaze is at once listless and razor sharp.
>How did they treat their brothers/sons/father?
His brothers were colleagues and peers, but he never really saw them as family. He was polite with most, and friendly with a few, but ultimately gave little time to fraternization in the face of herculean task that was the Crusade. His gene sire, similarly, was seen as a commanding officer and head of state to be reported to. The man had his respect, and his loyalty, but the relationship was never meant to be loving in any sense. His sons were his soldiers, and dutiful soldiers they were. He respected every one of them, and even admired son. They were who he was closest too, but even then it was only ever a cordial relationship between commander and subordinate.
>Where could they be found most readily in a standard battle?
Commanding from his flagship or a forward base. He rarely engages in open battle, except for the rare occasion when the absolute sharpest point was required for a spear of attack.

cont.

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>>49317219
>How did they respond to confrontation
With pensive and measured response. He would never raise his voice, though he might speak sharply with anyone. Including his father or his brothers. Never with condescension though, and he was always willing to just walk away if he felt a matter was too emotional. That he would not tolerate in the long term though.
>How did they respond to failure
Assessment of the causes and evaluation of future options. Failure can never be treated as an insurmountable obstacle. There is always a solution, even if that solution is usually the applied use of massive amounts of dangerous chemical weapons. Usually also some meditations on the context of the failure and his own approaches. I kind of imagine he talks to himself a lot.
>How did they respond to criticism
With an open mind, but a closed heart. If that makes sense. Criticism does not reflect on one's character. He would consider and weight the criticism against experience/learning, then either choose to apply or discard the opinion.
>How did they respond to their subordinates failures
He would usually evaluate the nature of the failure, then go over appropriate disciplinary action, retraining, and potential transfers to a different area. His interaction with whoever failed would usually be quite harsh but fair, never emotional.
>How did they reward success?
Usually promotions and some recognition, but ultimately never anything like big honours or personal commendations. Every marine was expected to do his best regardless of reward.
>Who did they surround themselves with and why?
>If they kept an honour guard of the 'worthy' - what was the criteria to join?
>If they were to throw a party what would it look like, who would be invited, and where would it be held?
>Whats their favourite colour and why?
>How did they speak?
>How did they look? Facial features, general size, markings, hair, eyes.
>If they had a spirit animal, what would it have been.
cont.

>>49317003
The Warmaster for sure.

>>49317116
Most educated, maybe, but definitely not smartest.

>>49317219
>>49317484
Saul, right?

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>>49317484
>He would never raise his voice
This is not the Saul Sheridan I know

>>49317219
whoops

>Who did they surround themselves with and why?
The most proven and experienced leaders in his legion, regardless of where they were from. While he kept many of his old subordinates from his service on Lorrentia, he valued the opinions of the Terran leaders, even if they challenged him. He loathed the idea of sycophants, and would become incredulous of anyone who too frequently offered high praise to him.
>If they kept an honour guard of the 'worthy' - what was the criteria to join?
The best soldiers in the legion, whether they were battle hardened veterans or simply the best and brightest. The Sons have a fairly high mortality rate, even at so high a level. Though ultimately, they would be less an "honour guard" and more a taskforce that he would use on especially difficult targets. He wouldn't spend that much more time with them than his normal forces.
>If they were to throw a party what would it look like, who would be invited, and where would it be held?
Well, he probably just wouldn't have a party. He might organize a party for his men though. Something to keep morale up, and remind them what they're fighting for. The location is kinda arbitrary, but it be a pretty laid back affair. Some barbecue or some such, a couple cases of brews and a little hard liquor, and equipment for sports/leisure. Kinda like the thing Kilgore does for his men, or Michael Ironside's character in the Starship Troopers movie.
>Whats their favourite colour and why?
I have honestly no idea.
>How did they speak?
In combat/to his subordinates and peers? Short, curt sentences. Usually with a decent amount of in-legion jargon/shorthands. In actual off time? He probably has a habit seeming to drift off towards the end of a portion of speech. He has a sort of poetic way about him, and tends to use kind of arcane language when talking about personal/philosophical stuff. Lots of metaphors and kinda weird phrasing.

cont.

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>>49317741
>How did they look? Facial features, general size, markings, hair, eyes.
Pic related, with a slightly thinner face and neck and darker hair.
>If they had a spirit animal, what would it have been.
I'm torn between multiple things. A hard working animal, and one that doesn't make a lot of noise but doesn't do a tough job. Something that needs a little thinking though. Probably a war horse.

>>49317683
Yeah, I forgot to mention that, but I guess it was easy enough to guess.

>>49317697
I more meant like actual angry yelling. He'd probably go almost drill sergeant mode on an subordinate being insubordinate, but it's not like there'd be real emotional vitriol.

>>49317219
>>49317484
>>49317741
>>49317827
Sorry for that being so long by the way, I get kind of carried away with this sort of thing.

>>49317003
Probably the warmaster. I imagine him with a Sherlock homes bag of cats and clocks kind of mind. Like just outrageously fantastically smart.

Forgive me if we've gone over this already, but how did Nikaea go? From what I remember Oramar was on trial for using xenotech and it was the first time the primarchs saw Sarco in his dreadnought chassis. Am I missing anything?

>>49317003
>most educated

It's a toss up between Alexios, Xun, Anshul and Oramar. They all have broad knowledge bases but pretty different specialities.

>smartest

Probably The Warmaster. I guess you could make an argument for Oramar if you're running with the idea that his plan is still on track.

>>49318154
That's pretty correct.

I guess it was a big turning point for a lot of dudes. Oramar realized he had to break away from the Imperium for his grand notions to come to fruition. Balthasar slips further into bloodlust as he finds himself thrilled rather than dreading another war against one of his brothers. Xun probably realizes he has to be etremedy careful with sorcery from now on. Anshul sees a gross betrayal by the Emperor and becomes more convinced that his father is wrong about many things. Aodhan's fears regarding the Emperor are affirmed in his eyes and he decides that he can't tolerate his father being alive forever.

>>49318297
I should mention that I feel like Sarco would have fallen to chaos if it hadn't been put in a dreadnought. I wonder if the Warmaster ever tried to turn him...

>>49318154
I imagine that Saul is likely on the side of the psykers. In his mind, no weapon is without cost and no cost is too high to paid. He probably leaves kinda leery about the whole thing. What could the Emperor be trying prevent that is somehow worse than all the conventional war stuff they're doing? Why doesn't he trust his sons? What is keeping to himself?

Ultimately it's just another brick in the wall that is his fall, but it's a part of why he starts to lose faith in the future of the Imperium.

>>49317003
Probably Faustus on both accounta. He knew some truly serious heavy science shit to the point of making thunder warriors and other biological impossibilities. Not only that, but he apparently was the only one to suspect the warmaster and prepare his legion in secret on Legion.

>>49303276
>What is the primarchs demeanour. (20 words ish)
A true bastard who thought all he had to do was lead his army and make a show of it.

>How did they treat their brothers/sons/father?
Daddy is just another warrior-king, and a rather restrictive one at that. Never mind all his goals and other abilities: His primary function is to give my people things to fight and palaces to live in. As for the others, they are fine enough as a whole, but could use some guidance. Most of them react negatively to this fact in some way or another. I am persistent.

>Where could they be found most readily in a standard battle?
On top of a hill or wrecked vehicle, bellowing orders, encouragement, and challenges to the enemy. If the feeling takes him, he will rush towards the melee engagements as well.

>How did they respond to confrontation
Not deigning to acknowledge it (unless it comes from the Emperor, in which case he would always yield with utmost grace)

>How did they respond to failure
Not deigning to acknowledge it. A warrior’s failings are as private as his successes are public. Remember, one must serve as a beacon to his brothers.

>How did they respond to criticism
Not deigning to acknowledge it, or else maneuvering the conversation in such a way as to make you admit that he was right all along. That’s why he likes Xun, Balthasar, and Engerand so much.

>>49319175
>How did they respond to their subordinates failures
>How did they reward success
Rewards go one level up. The squad takes responsibility for the actions of the individual, the company for the squad, the battalion for the company, etc. The currencies of reward are honor and glory, because that is all a warrior should need. That is why record keeping and the collection of trophies are so important in the legion. That is also why, amongst the Silver Spears, having fewer recorded honors than one’s peers is seen as a failing in and of itself. Complacency and failure are rightfully conflated. Giving more powerful equipment to more distinguished soldiers is just common sense.

>Who did they surround themselves with and why?
Kashaln surrounded himself with himself. He thought he had a lot of friends, both amongst his brothers and his sons, but he was never able to let any of them get close (nor were most of them willing to try). Now he is wrapped up in Slaanesh’s “divine” presence.

>If they kept an honour guard of the 'worthy' - what was the criteria to join?
Kashaln maintains no cadre of bodyguards. Those units who have accrued the most battle honors or have distinguished themselves recently may earn the right to walk behind him at parades and functions, however.

>If they were to throw a party what would it look like, who would be invited, and where would it be held?
He would have the stewards and servants organize it, and then have them killed if someone important complained about anything.

>Whats their favourite colour and why?
Take a wild guess.

>How did they speak?
Articulately, clearly, and with purpose. Not humble or frank, but sincere enough.

>>49319195
>How did they look? Facial features, general size, markings, hair, eyes.
One of the taller and broader primarchs, but not bulky. Richly tanned skin, long curly black hair, radiant teeth, and a substantial handlebar mustache. The head is held high and the eyes are piercing. Ironically, he makes a distinct effort not to look down at people because it makes them less receptive to what he says, which causes him to maintain physical distance.

>If they had a spirit animal, what would it have been.
Some sort of bitchy saber-toothed cat maybe?

>>49318346
I like to think the warmaster tried to turn everyone. Or rather, gauged how likely they are / how far he could push them / how he would if he needed to.

It was one of the questions in the original thread, i said that one of the reasons the hawks werent insta-gibbed at the start of the heresy, was that due to A: Raydons vocal outcry at the Emperor, B: most his best buds 3/4 turning traitor and C: his roguish tendencies.

The Warmaster thought he could turn him (and probably would have) - except that one of Raydons own spies relayed to him evidence which turned him forever against the traitors.

>>49318463
Good argument here. I like it.

>>49318463
Aren't Thunder Warriors just prototype Astartes? Why would you make soldiers that are worse than the ones you already have?

>>49319520
Actually, Thunder Warriors were supposed to be better in most ways, but were violent lunatics who always eventually went totally off their rocker. They also took longer to make and had a higher wash out rate, if that's even possible.

The Custodes are perfected Thunder Warriors.

>>49319195
>Kashaln surrounded himself with himself.

Wow. Maybe I should have thought that one out a little better. I mean it's right, but holy shit.

>>49319543
Are there any actual books about the unification wars or any early timeline stuff? AFAIK most of the novels only really go as far back as the Triumph at Ullanor.

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>>49303276

What is the primarchs demeanour. (20 words ish)
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How did they treat their brothers/sons/father?
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Where could they be found most readily in a standard battle?
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How did they respond to confrontation
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How did they respond to failure
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How did they respond to criticism
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How did they respond to their subordinates failures
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How did they reward success
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Who did they surround themselves with and why?
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If they kept an honour guard of the 'worthy' - what was the criteria to join?
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If they were to throw a party what would it look like, who would be invited, and where would it be held?
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Whats their favourite colour and why?
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How did they speak?
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How did they look? Facial features, general size, markings, hair, eyes.
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If they had a spirit animal, what would it have been.
REDACTED

>>49313428
>Gengrat's appearance
He's got mechadendrite dreads. Outside of that, I think he tends to be very well dressed in an oddly archaic sort of way. He's poised, but there's something not quite right about it all.
With Gengrat, he almost succeeds in appearing normal, appearing sane, but he can't quite get it right, there's something wrong and you feel it down to your bones. He's threatening at some animal instinctive level and as much as you try to relax, you can't around him.

I'm thinking to represent that by using a veneer of civility, a slightly cracked porcelain mask of a human face. In a lot of ways, he's only able to relate with that darker side of humanity.
The big difference between him and Xun is that Xun genuinely has that "good" side to him, though I'd argue that all primarchs and space marines are inherently psychopathic, the difference, then is that Xun makes an effort to care and Gengrat just hears the voices. I think. Maybe someone can phrase it better than I can, but I'm thinking the two should make an interesting parallel.
I'm going to look through >>49317219
And see if I can also set up some nice synergy between Gengrat and Saul.
After that, I may try my hand at a speculative Graha'Nak.

>>49310000
>>Criterion for the honor Guard
>Xun's honor Guard is like Guilliman's Invictus Suzereigns or the tetrarchs. To be selected you have to be a skilled warrior, a good administrator, an artist of some sort (the art of the blade does count), and virtuous. You have to represent everything that is best in the legion.

What is Xun's honor guard/inner circle called?

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Bumping with WIP map with smaller planet dots.

>>49321773
I thought Ravanna was out Cydonia/Tepectitlan way.

just some write faggotry. As always C&C required. Also, don't get salty reading it. But DO tell me what the Primarch might think of it.

“He believes himself a wise sage, yet knowledge is only a burden to him. He craves knowledge like a parched man in a desert craves water, but no matter how much he gains he will never be happy, for there is always more. It is thus, that he wears shackles of his own devising, and worse still, he does not see it himself and so only adds yet more links to his chain with each passing year. He surrounds himself with sycophants, “bright minds” he calls them, they are as fool as he. Too scared to challenge him for fear of his petty scorning. The old man demands much from others, but offer little himself and yet he has created a mighty Empire. An Empire that is as hollow as it is shining. Almost a parody of what could have been.
His sons are doomed by him, and he by them. He seeks glory without understanding what it is, what it feels like, how it can corrupt as well as enlighten.”
- Extract from the Lost Manuscripts, Book I, Chapter I Page 394
“He was a true brother back then, though if I am to speak truthfully I think I always knew what lay in his heart. Mayhaps I could have stopped him? Instead I distanced myself from him, trusting my brother where I should have trusted my instincts. I was a coward and I will bear the shame of that until the end of my days – though, as my dreams darken I begin to think that might not be so far off…”
- Extract from the Lost Manuscripts, Book I, Chapter II

>>49321912
“He was a prince, and perhaps my closest friend. There were others I was close to too be sure, but the Shining Knight was ever above us, not that he knew. And the Old Soldier was never really the brotherly sort. No, I think it was the Warrior Spirit, which I was drawn to the most. For while we did not see eye to eye on most, we both knew. Knew in our hearts we were kindrid spirits. He always spoke truth, even in the Dark Days, even as we fought atop the burning hulks, even as fell deeper into the darkness. Never once did I hear him utter falseness to mine ears. I will endeavour to remember his as he was, and should I be granted the opportunity again, I will not fail to end his suffering.”
- Extract from the Lost Manuscripts book II, Chapter IV
“I came to regret my part in his tale, I argued long and hard to have him put out of his misery. “It is no life for him” I cried to them, but in their wisdom they ignored my complaints. In truth it was for the better, for while I cannot imagine sacrificing what he has, he has inculcated a righteous culture in his sons. One of the few to hold true to our purpose. I often think what life would look like, seen through his “eyes”. I do so envy his rest. But I believe my own time is close at hand.”
- Extract from the Lost Manuscripts book II, Chapter IV

>>49321918
“I find it odd, that we be so similar, and yet so different. His loyalty though, I believe beyond reproach and that, in the end is what matters these days. There are few among the survivors who I can hold in such stead. Perhaps he has strengthened himself and his sons over these long years, though I doubt it, they have long had the chance to better themselves, in truth they could have been the greatest of us, and yet… they cannot seem to grasp it, the truth beyond, they seek advancement but without purpose – He wastes the talents of his sons, unable to grasp the nature of his own creed. I fear he will wither much like the Old Man, lost forever to the puzzles he seeks to crack. It has been long since our last duel, perhaps before the end I will seek him out, yes I would like that.”
- Extract from the Lost Manuscripts book III, Chapter II

>>49321884
I have literally no idea.

Which Primarchs haven't been done yet?

>>49322435
sinistrum, rubinek, Klaus

>>49322467
I'm sure they'll be around.

Anything anyone wants to discuss?

>>49322520
peoples thoughts on
>>49321927
>>49321918
>>49321912

otherwise...

im out of ideas.

>>49321912
>>49321918
>>49321927
Who's supposed to be saying this?

>>49322747
Exactly!

Who said it, who are they talking about...

Only time will tell.

>>49322765
So that's supposed to be a mystery that engages me? Because it's just necessary information that's lacking and makes is disorienting to read. At least make it clear who he's talking about.

Context is important, fuck your mystery.

>>49322780
Fair, the reason I didn't write up a blurb about all the Primarchs was because I wasn't sure how it would be received. A test run, as it were.

Maybe its the wrong setting to attempt something like that.

>>49322839
I just want to know what the fuck I'm reading when I'm reading it.

>>49321927
I literally have no idea who this is about

>>49321912
>don't get salty reading it
>fuck your mystery

never change

>>49323104
? I'm not salty, Honestly I don't know why you even wrote that, why would anyone be salty at that stuff? I just think writing someone's opinion of someone else without making it clear who either of those people are is bad writing.

>>49323104
>>49323147
Ah that wasn't me, me being the author of the stuff.

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>>49322564
I've got a couple of things we could discuss.

- Since the Mechanicus was shattered and broken, what Mk. armor are we on? Do the traitors have better tech than the loyalists? Do all the loyalists share their armor patterns?

- Are all the marines on the side of the Dark Imperium horrible Chaos Space Marines? This also leads to the question, are there Space Marines that 'turn loyal'?

- I'm not sure if you all know this, but the Tyranids were lead to the Main 40kU by the Ultramarines and Roboute Guilliman by activating a device called Pharos.
This was meant to replace the Astronomican during the Unremembered Empire arc in the Horus Heresy books. But obviously, the Ultramarines don't exist here.
So this leads to the question, are the Tyranids still a factor? If they are, what drew them in and where did they arrive?

>>49323252
>Mk Armour
good question, I imagine OU+1 would be the cap for rank and files for the Loyalists and traitors alike, and even then I don't see everyone being up to date.

I think they pretty much stay neck and neck in development. The Dark Imperium would have more resources and such, but there efforts would no doubt be linked with inherently chaosy advances. (Demon armour etc), while those in the CS lack the time & spare resources to really advance in leaps and bounds.

As for sharing, I think they might but not very openly. Like they would keep it for themselves until they could trade it to a partner for something, or until they were onto their next big thing when they might release it "In good faith" to "beloved friends and brothers" and such.

>Are they all horrible chaos space marines
Yes and no. Some are just renegades, but how long they can resist the pull of chaos is debateable. I wrote up a character who was essentially an information broker, who had hacked into preeeetty much everything that can be hacked into. And just sold secrets to factions.

He kept himself alive by hiring himself out, and by NOT touching anything that had the Warmasters proverbial name stamped on it.

As for loyalist traitors, I don't see why not. I had the idea last night to try and write up a "magnificent seven" type deal with loyalist traitors hiding out in the Kor Protectorate.

>Tyranids
I did not know.

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>>49323252
>- Since the Mechanicus was shattered and broken, what Mk. armor are we on? Do the traitors have better tech than the loyalists? Do all the loyalists share their armor patterns?

Designs likely diverge significantly. However, it wouldn't just stop. Even in the tech stagnation that characterizes warhammer, you don't go 10k years without modifying designs. So, there would be Angel pattern, Storm pattern, Mars pattern, etc versions of armor, all with multiple marks as the years progress.

>- Are all the marines on the side of the Dark Imperium horrible Chaos Space Marines? This also leads to the question, are there Space Marines that 'turn loyal'?

Some more than others. Some revel in rape and death and sadism, others are just trying to survive in a universe gone mad. Not all of them worship Chaos or are loyal to the Warmaster. The Dark Imperium is, well, chaotic.

>I'm not sure if you all know this, but the Tyranids were lead to the Main 40kU by the Ultramarines and Roboute Guilliman by activating a device called Pharos.

I didn't know about that. I thought they were drawn by the Astronomicon itself. Our working theory regarding the Tyranids is that, because there are lots of little astronomicons instead of one big one (you might not know about this part but it's a neat little touch of the setting), the Tyranids would be drawn to the galaxy but much later and in much smaller numbers. I think our timeline is around M42.

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>>49323367
>(you might not know about this part but it's a neat little touch of the setting)

I just realized I tend to assume anon posters are new posters and not regular posters who like to stay anon

>>49323367
>>49323377
I picked little bits up from that, yeah.
Still though, in the main 40kU the Tyranids don't arrive in the galaxy until 745.M41, even though they were drawn to it by the Pharos device during the Heresy.
The Pharos book basically ends on the hivemind noticing the galaxy. If the 'Nids detect the smaller beacons, they would atleast arrive later than they would with a single big one.

>>49323401
So what makes the Pharos attract them that the Astronomicon wasn't already doing?

Idea: The Emperors ascenscion to the Warp acts as a massive, like colossal, beacon - instantly travelling the width and breadth of not only this universe but others as well.

THIS. is what essentially slaps the hivemind in the face. It heads off in the direction it came from, and ends up locking onto the Warp Beacons.

Thoughts?

>>49323476
sounds perfect
>>49323321
>>49323252
I don't know how much this affects it but remember most forge worlds in the segmentum solar share the fate of mars

>>49323494
>>49323476
Are the Tyranids still gonna enter from the Eastern fringe though? I mean, the Imperials are already in a bad place, if the Nids show up they're completely boned. Do we want that?

>>49323590
I do, The setting should reek with defeat.

>>49323602
If we ever produce a codex or pdf like the dornian heresy, I want the reader to make an increasingly loud "fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck" as he reads it.

>>49323602
That's fair enough. I do think the fucking should kind of go both ways though.
By the way, what exactly is the firwall? And how would the Nids interact with it? Don't they kind of mess up the warp?

I'm kind of sad I didn't catch these threads earlier on, I'm trying to fluff things out where I can, but I don't have a Primarch to call my own.
Gonna start namefagging either way.

>>49323710
>but I don't have a Primarch to call my own.
There's more than a few abandoned ones you could take over

>>49323710
Well a few primarchs are communal efforts.

Rubinek (?), Faustus, and Klaus. If you don't mind their fates and (the fact Klaus is quite literally a walking plot device) - feel free to claim one of them as your own.

Read up on their directions and get back to us. Or do what the Black Sons did, and come up with a splinter cult that is more badass and thematic than any "established" faction.

>>49323735
>>49323742

If I'm gonna get invested in any way, I'd want it to be 'my guy'.
Plus, I don't wanna pirate anyone else's creation.

Also, I only just figured out what Rubinek's deal is. Not sure if it's really clever or completely rediculous.

>>49323762
Rubinek's literally just a book reference joke that we decided to stick with

>>49323813
Could some one explain that

>>49323962
In a short story called "Hell in a Bottle" someone refers to the Iron Hearts and their Primarch Rubinek.
People thought Rubinek might've been one of the two lost Primarchs, but it turned out the writer made a mistake and meant Chapter Master.
I have mixed feelings about digging him up for this, but the fluff they wrote for the Iron Hearts is cool enough.

>>49324005
I was unaware

>>49319175
>>49319195
>>49319207
Y/N?: Silver Spears prefer powerful, concentrated fire weapons like lascannons over blasty stuff like plasma cannons.

Also, how would you feel about the Triarii/Principes stuff if the Legion currency was removed, with these guys just being at different levels of veterancy and therefore having better stuff? The idea of tightly ranked-up dudes with tall shields and lascannons/rocket launchers braced against them seems to fit the Spears.

>>49324588
The biggest problem the Spears have is that they're gonna have to be different from other Greek/Roman/Spear using chapters.
Preferring that single target burst precision makes them more unique tactically, but I think culturally they're kind of cliché.

I'll take a good look at them and other, similair chapters and post some examples of what I mean.

>>49324735
I'm not sure they actually use that many spears.

They seem to be very much a combined infantry Legion. Very few vehicles, lots of tactical squads and devastators, using tight formations reminiscent of those employed in ancient warfare. Bikers for cavalry analogues IIRC, though, in the 41st Millennium, they're probably riding Slaaneshi daemon things instead.

Calixis-lore provider here. I'll namefag from now on, makes it a bit easier for me in the future.
Questions: Do the loyalists make raids in Dark Imperium space? If so, how deep in enemy territory do they go?
Is knowledge as restricted to the general populace of the Dark Imperium as it is for Imperium of the main setting?
Is Tyrant Star and the legends attached to it known to more than select few individuals in the Dark Imperium? Do the loyalists have access to this lore?

I think one of the things that should be stressed for the Silver Spears is that they have a boner for specialized infantry, with their formations working in tandem with one another to produce a whole greater than its parts.

So, for example, the concept of bikers as cavalry. Cavalry is not shooty. They have Devastators for that. Cavalry is there to flank and smash into enemy formations, disrupting their whole line. As a result, Silver Spears bike squads are focused on that glorious charge, Fuck having bolters, just put more armour at the front so we can pull that charge off. Fuck having heavy guns, that's a job for the boys in the rear. Instead they've got boltpistols and various close combat weapons. Chainswords and power spears and the like.

This drive to master a specialized pursuit of war would feed into their eventual fall to Slaanesh.

>>49325023
I can see this being applied to their tactical squads too. Rather than having standard tac squads, they have specialist infantry units that work together to achieve maximum effect.

"Oh, tac-marine-kun, you want to use a heavy weapon? Too bad, that's not your job, you should have applied for devastator duty. Your job is Boltguns. Ah, it was a flamer you wanted? Well why didn't you - PSYKE YOU CAN'T HAVE A FLAMER, DUMBASS. See those guys over there with the boarding shields and the popped collars? They can have flamers. Your job is Boltguns."

>>49325188
>>49324979
I fucked up my greentexts.
>Do the loyalists make raids in Dark Imperium space? If so, how deep in enemy territory do they go?
Yes, they do raid into the Dark Imperium. Raydon and his Warhawks make constant raids all over Dark Imperial territory, but I'm sure they never get close to Terra.
>Is knowledge as restricted to the general populace of the Dark Imperium as it is for Imperium of the main setting?
If anything, even more so. The Warmaster is all about complete control over his subjects, so I'd hazard a bet that some manufactorum workers don't even know there's a world outside the factory walls.
>Is Tyrant Star and the legends attached to it known to more than select few individuals in the Dark Imperium?
I'm sure a decent amount of military officials have been briefed on the situation in Calixis, but once again the average citizen wouldn't know shit.
>Do the loyalists have access to this lore?
I'd say that depends on when the Tyrant Star first appeared. If it was before the Heresy, then they'd know. Otherwise I'm not sure.

>>49325207
In that case, they know. The Star has always been there, although confirmed reports of its appearances required most of the sector to be colonized first. In the original setting, the area was conquered in M39, but most likely much earlier in Asunderverse.

>>49325023
>>49324858
To be fair, the wiki is sorely lacking info on the Silver Spears.

>>49325318
I've been saying that the Ash Bearers go to the Calixis sector, but I don't think I ever asked you. What do you think?

>>49325409
Who are the Ash Bringers?

>>49325409
I think that is an interesting idea, albeit they would have little to gain but artefacts from the Halo Stars and of the alien races that inhabited the sector before Imperium conquered it. Most of these artefacts would be of little interest or dangerous to even possess, at least until we add new ones to Asunderverse version. The black staffs are an interesting idea yet I doubt Ash Bearers would be that excited about claiming them.

>>49325459
Renegade successor Chapter of the Undying Scions. Hereteks in the service of a C'tan Shard.

The Unyielding Vigil has a bit of a problem with Necrontech cults. I think two other successor Chapters are implied to be hereteks.

...I just realized that Negators are just Red Scorpions with blue trim instead of yellow.

Hmmm.

>>49321884
Yeah, I assumed it was pretty far out, since Anshul is one of the last Primarchs to be discovered. Probably closer to Tepectitlan than Cydonia.

>>49326070
Maybe some reevaluation on the color schemes is in order. None of them are particularly bad, but I feel some of them are quite samey.
Like, the Warp Raiders, Sky Serpents and Second Sons have similar color schemes and the Silver Spears, Judgement Bringers, Negators, Eyes of the Warmaster and Knights Exemplar all feature heavy grey.

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>>49325626
The Ash Bearers are sworn to the service of the c'tan Nyadrazatha, the Burning One. They travel the galaxy searching for his shards so that he may be reborn to spread his flames once more. This brings them into conflict with the crusader states, who see them as traitors, as well as the necrons, who would see the c'tan stricken from the annals of history.

>>49326559
I concur on the Sky Serpents and Warp Raiders, but I think the olive drab of the second sons is distinct enough. I bet they do camo, too.

Idea behind the Sky Serpents is that they're supposed to look jade-ish and/or watery, since the whole icon set is storm dragon and storm Serpent iconography from China and Mesoamerica in particular.
The grey segments are just to be aesthetically pleasing.

>>49327535
Thoughts on the dark purple of the Scions?

>>49327620
I like it, though I'd assumed it was an approximation of amaranth.

>>49327644
The name Amaranth came because I knew they were purple and needed a name for their home planet. We can say that it's decent camouflage in their home jungles.

>>49327535
The green on the second sons is distinct enough, but it's also got the drab, dark, muted shoulders.
The dark and drab works for the Second Sons, but not as much for the Sky Serpents imo.
Would it be possible to have a more striking shoulders on the Serpents?

I also realise that having bright shoulders on the Serpents makes them even more like the Warp Raiders,
but we'll cross that bridge when we get to it.

>>49324588
>Silver Spears prefer powerful, concentrated fire weapons like lascannons over blasty stuff like plasma cannons.
They prefer the bolter over both, simply because of its iconic ubiquity. However, earning a place in a devastator or terminator squad is considered an honor.

>Also, how would you feel about the Triarii/Principes stuff if the Legion currency was removed, with these guys just being at different levels of veterancy and therefore having better stuff?
That sounds about right. Although I would not be opposed to a breacher marine type squad with shields and single-handed guns which lines up in front of other marines in the line of battle. Furthermore, we can have an elite version of them who have conal rad weapons built into their shields just like Kashaln does.

>>49325023
>>49325131
This is correct.

>>49327810
When I get home, I'll try some brighter blues on the shoulders.

>>49327670
What a happy coincidence. The amaranth flower is generally associated with immortality, being derived from the greek amarantos.

>>49326559
>>49327810
Well, the Negators are supposed to have off-white helmets (like... sandy white or eggshell white). Maybe their shoulder pads should be coloured that way too to differentiate them further? I donno, I feel like the Judgement Bringers should stay as they are, their scheme is extremely boss.

>>49327932
>This is correct.
>Silver Spears pop their collars

Truly 2cool to for loyalists.

>>49321773
Why are all the craftworlds grouped up like that?

>>49321918
>but the Shining Knight was ever above us, not that he knew

Bitch I knew.

>>49328157
Eldar Empire. Half the galaxy is tits now so a bunch of Craftworld have carved out a new empire with human subject worlds. I think there should be a few more there.

>>49328157
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Resurgent_Eldar_Empire#Recent_Events

>>49328210
>>49328268
Thanks bruvs.

>>49328152
>Silver Spears pop their collars

Well, we are basically the senpai of all the legions.

>>49328364
>Kashaln pops his collar, probably in a gang
>Aodhan does drugs and sleeps around
>Oramar hangs out with all the wrong crowds
>Sarco on life support with text-to-speak
>Rubinek born with all the disorders
>Gengrat is a super goth who won't take his meds

The life of a single father is hard.

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>>49327810
>>49328116
Here's some possibilities, to follow.

>>49328857
>Raydon never fucking talks
>Graha'Nak is always talking about animals, probably a furry

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>>49328970
Or this.

>>49325207
>>49324979
Life on Terra:
ATTENTION:
FRIEND WARMASTER SPEAKS:
Friends in Terrasoc, My doubleplusgoodest friends.
Unfriends want our doubleplusunwellness. We must unmakeful his plans. How can?
Work, friends, work. In factory work, in home work. Not to unwork. If unwork then make friends unwellful, make unloyalful.
Doubleplushard work, doubleplusgood.
Must makemindful:
Not to look at unground. Friend Warmaster has heard unloyals say exists unTerra in unground? How can?
Not can. Is untrue. Heresy.
Unfriends unseen in allplace. Careful. Not to thoughtcrime.

Not to unremember, friend Warmaster, Emperor of Terra, is watching. Always.
The Emperor Protects.

>>49328157
>Kashaln
>not Staffel

Lel.

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>>49327932
>Although I would not be opposed to a breacher marine type squad with shields and single-handed guns which lines up in front of other marines in the line of battle

Sounds cool to me, I love boarding shields.

You could have Triarii for the Terminator elite-of-the-elite, Principes for shield/heavy weapon combo, Thorakitai for boltguns/breaching shields, and then... Hetairoi for elite biker cavalry?

They should totally go for Corinthian-style crests by the way. Holy fuck those look so rad.

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>>49326559
>Warp Raiders
Painters do the Warp Raiders a disservice and I've never figured out a good way to show what they look like. Their armor is pearlescent, with thousands of iridescent hues over a white base.

>Sky Serpents and Second Sons
Distinct enough IMO. Very different shades of green.

>Silver Spears
Silver

>Judgement Bringers
Unpainted Ceramite

>Negators
Legit Grey

>Knights Exemplar
Could stand to look a bit more exemplary

>Eyes of the Warmaster
That pic is a bad example because it was supposed to be an officer. Pic related is a better example. They're black, trimmed with black, and decorated with black.

>>49328210
>I think there should be a few more there.
That's less than half of the craftworlds in the resurgent empire but it was starting to look ridiculous the more I added so I compromised and just picked the more famous/infamous/important ones.

>>49329794
I think I would prefer to use names I come up with later, but the helmets seem completely workable.

Unless there's a more Greco-Roman legion out there, or one that needs more pzazz.

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>>49330517
At one level, I really like that idea for the warp raiders, but at least notionally is a problem if their scheme is impossible to produce.

This said...

>>49330691
I'm totally open to new ideas for their scheme.

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>>49330683
>Unless there's a more Greco-Roman legion out there
AHEM

>>49330771
Oh, I thought you were going for Russian sainthood/angel things.

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>>49330749
I was trying to make an iridescent scheme in the marine maker. Not that it really matters-- we're not expecting anyone to ever try painting one of these, except Iron Hearts guy.
Still, might as well.
I'mma mess around with using some aspect warrior type colors or maybe sahdes of grey, but in the mean time, here's a scion in Amaranth.

>>49330912
In a way, you're right, Kashaln. Byzantine art is the inspiration for a lot of that, but the Byzantines are also the sucessors/continuation of the Roman Empire in the East, following the fall of the Western Empire.

In many ways, that Jade Empire writer Euodar Gibzon's Decline and Fall of the Western Imperium and his criticism of the rump state in Minorum is very apropos.

>>49330942
And wouldn't you know? Striking Scorpion colorschemes don't look right on Marines-- no helmet plumes and armor pad things.

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>>49330912
Their original name was the Kataphraktoi and their primarch is a direct reference to Alexios Komnenos, Emperor of the Romans during the first crusade.

Byzantine Greeks and Hellenic Greeks are as different as night and day though, so there's probably room for both themes.

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>>49331009
>>49331171
How about this, a bit of a sand theme, like blending in to their homeworld. The iridescence comes from mirage shrouds, which they use to blur their outline at speed.

Can someone repost the chapter creator we're using to make all these images again? All the ones I can find are total dogshit.

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>>49330942
?

>>49331217
I like this a lot actually

>>49331219
It's called Chapter Generator and 4chan blocks the link because it's russian. The version I have is 2.0.79 which is amazing because they finally made the UI in english

>>49330912
Well, he's going Bryzantine rather than Hellenistic. Which are completely different in pretty much every way.

>>49331235
Oh, yeah, I was just messing around with colors and did one up in Amaranth. I think it would be a neat 'easter egg' to throw in a unit with >>49330942
scheme as some sort of Immortals or Undying Guard. Some sort of elite, perhaps cybernetically enhanced guard group.

>>49331242
Heck, while we're redoing shit, do we want to take another look at some of those names? I recall Angels of Light being a placeholder and there was talk of working Anointed into it.

>>49331415
I like Angels of Light but it's linguistically clunky in a way that Dark Angels isn't, and Light Angels is a bit too on the nose.

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>>49331415
I have the Funerary Guard for that.

>>49324979
The hawks literally dont stop raiding. Its all they do.

The others dont, instead funding and supplying the hawks.

>>49329205
Someone got it at least.

Though the intent was for people to super-impose their own ideas over the top to see what people thouhht of themselves.

>>49331526
Angels Illuminate is my headcanon

>>49323321
>>49323494
On the subject of Forges, I was flipping through fluff books.

Major forgeworlds in the West, along with some of what they make (that we know of):
Mars (duh)
Ryza--Plasma
Agripinaa--More Accurate Nova Cannon, Autoguns
Phaeton-- Highly Productive
Graia-- Tanks and missiles
Cypra Mundi-- Fleet Hub, with aircraft and spacecraft
Voss- Planes
Stygies-- Armor/tanks
Vanaheim--Armor/tanks
Atar Median--??
Zhao Arkkad--They have Praetor Assault Vehicles and were the Forge for the Thousand Sons
Gryphonne IV--More tanks/Armor
Lucius--BEHNBLEHDS (and other vehicles) Also Macharius tanks, Lucius Pattern Drop Pods
Mpandex--??
Mezoa-- Weird cult
Jupiter--Shipyard
Sarum--URSUS CLAAAAAAAWS
Paramar--Depot


East

>Jade Empire
Anvillus--2nd Most Productive Forge in the Imperium, probably held in some sort of joint status
Incaladion--??
Tindalos--Volkites!
Tigrus may be in Jade Empire Space, May be Forgespace (Big guns for tanks, like the accelerator cannon and vanquisher cannon)


>Vigil
Estaban--Rejected the Emperor as Omnissiah, BEHNBLADES

>Forgespace
Metalica--??
Accatran--Guns/supplies for drop troops
Tarsis
Stygies-- Armor/tanks (it's on the border)
Graia-- Tanks and missiles (same border)
Tigrus?--(Big guns for tanks, like the accelerator cannon and vanquisher cannon)

>Minorum
Konor
Veridia

>Kor
Triplex Phall--??

>Unknown
Shenlong--Made the Lantern

>>49332038
Fair enough. Maybe just a successor chapter or something. I just feel like symbolism of Amaranth is too good to pass up.

>>49332402
I think its important to keep in mind forgeworlds rarely dedicated themselves to single projects, except maybe super heavies +. Otherwise they were typically "known" for producing something, but the had other factories making other things.

Eg. Forgeworld X makes rhinos. But it would also have factorys that also make flak jackets, spoons, air conditioners, etc etc.

>>49332422
Oh, yeah I like the scheme a lot. If you want to make a chapter for the Scions, go ahead. I can return the favor if you want. I'll use the B&C painter though because I can't understand russian.

>>49332498
Right, but this gives us some idea of the technologies that were lost. So, for example, Plasma stuff is impaired due to the loss of Ryza, we don't get macharius tanks, etc. By the same token, the traitors do get some of those things.

It also helps us figure out what the players and the web of influences are in the East when interfacing with the Mechanicum, since the next step is looking at who evacuated what world.

For example, the Storm Hammers have some Vanaheim guys they picked up during the Heresy, Xun defended Ryza and Paramar, and so forth.
We also know that places like Incaladion and Mezoa didn't get along with Mars, so when the Codex Sinister is rolled out with Martian backing, we can expect those worlds to push for their legion to give them special dispensation.
Stuff like that.

>>49332624
Yep yep i get where youre going. That was mostly a reminder to others, not to worry about where ship weapons, astarte armour etc was going to come from.

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>>49332402
>Veridia Forge

The gravitic engines of an Angelus Pattern Jetbike are extremely sensitive machines. In order to be properly calibrated, the Jetbikes must be manufactured, tested, and fine tuned in a low gravity environment. Thus it was that Veridia Forge was created in one of the larger asteroids of the Veridia System's central belt. Massive caverns were built into its siderite interior. Docking bays honeycomb its surface, and habitation domes rise from its surface like warts.

While many of the Angelic Pantheon believed Veridia Forge should be strict property of the Angels of Light, Alexios the White saw it as an opportunity to tie Imperium Minorum to the Forgespace. The Forge was declared a Martian Enclave, and numerous techmarines, enginseers, and servitors were brought from the Forgespace to oversee Veridia's operations. This simple act contributes greatly to the relatively peaceful relations between the two Crusader States: If the Angels want their jetbikes, they must not offend the Fists of Mars, and the Fists of Mars must avoid offending the Angels or see thousands of their men as hostages.

>>49319579
We have a source of them going 5 to 1 against World Eaters in the Book 1 betrayal by forgeworld, and at least one pops up somewhere in the BL books.

>>49332724
I haven't read any of the FW books, just the novels.

>>49332693
This is the kind of stuff i want the crusader states to be about.

Tenuous 'alliances' that maintain bonds

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>>49303276
>What is the primarchs demeanour. (20 words ish)
Enoch is dependable, honest (often brutally so) and loyal. Somewhat cold, taciturn, calculating. Slow to act but unstoppable once set in motion.
>How did they treat their brothers/sons/father?
Enoch's sons were the most dear thing to him in the galaxy. Outwardly he showed his brothers respect but little else, even if he detested some of them. He had a base need for his father's approval, attention, what-have-you, and Enoch becoming disillusioned with Emps is what led him to go traitor, finding the Warmaster as a sort of surrogate father figure.
>Where could they be found most readily in a standard battle?
Enoch would be in a forward command center, directing the flow of battle and actively pointing the big guns where they were needed most at that second
>How did they respond to confrontation
Enoch would try to be diplomatic even at the worst of times, but once you got a rise out of him he'd be terrifying and brash
>How did they respond to failure
He'd keep a stiff upper lip but inwardly ever little failure would tear him apart. He paradoxically viewed himself as a failure but somehow above is brothers (most of them)
>How did they respond to criticism
"I have high regard for you and respect your input, but I see things a different way."
>How did they respond to their subordinates failures
Enoch had unshakable faith in his sons. If one does fail him then he is brutal in his judgement but once punishment was doled out all would be forgiven.
>How did they reward success?
Success is its own reward, and you should be wise enough to recognize the Primarch's approval by the fact that he continues to challenge you
>Who did they surround themselves with and why?
Enoch mostly kept to himself. He wasn't one for advisors as felt he could always come to the correct conclusion on his own.