/srg/ Shadowrun General - It's A Breeder's World Out There

Am I the only person who has described their dimensions as Giant Dwarves?

Gonna repeat my question from >>49283016 last thread since I didn't get any replies. I'm putting together possible clients for a Black Hat runner in Seattle who works for people that regular runners wouldn't touch (or wouldn't want word getting out about).

So far I've got Tamanous for organ-legging, Humanis for hate crimes/terrorism and Yakuza for organized crime and bunraku in particular. Any other good customers? Preferably something magic, spirit or matrix related.

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>>49284516
Black Lodge/Ordo Maximus is the obvious magic hook-up, and Deus/Winternight for Matrix. You might want the darker elements of the New Century Party to change it up a bit magically, so it's not literally a list of the most unambiguously evil groups in SR.

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>>49284448
Dammit, Shaq.

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Could a new strain of CFD be used to do a mega-run/arc based on Snow Crash?

How bad of an idea is it to actually take the LEEEEEEROY quality?

>>49284825
It marks you as a reckless memester so it's bad by default.

So the extended ending to Shadowrun Returns Hong Kong brings the player back to Seattle and sort of sets them up to get involved in the impending Renraku Arcology shutdown. Is there any chance Harebrained will ever make that expansion, or is it just an adventure seed for people who want to continue their character's adventures offline?

>>49284825
Is that some sort of popular homebrew quality?

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>>49284798
How so? The Snow Crash virus doesn't have much to do with CFD, in distribution method, effect, or history.

>>49284837
I'm pretty sure Seattle is done.

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>>49284845
No, anon.

Data Trails, page 48.

>>49284877
Well, the whole Shadowrun Returns thing might be done since I don't think HBS announced any plans to make more expansions, but to be fair both major endings to SR:HK end with the player back in Seattle and talks about how everything was going fine until you get caught up in the Shutdown. It definitely reads like a teaser.

>>49284888
I've never played 5th edition.

Who the hell thought that was a good idea for a quality.

>>49284837
Actually, can I ask about the Renraku Arcology shutdown? From what I can tell it seems like just an adventure supplement from back in '98, but I see it referenced a lot - was it especially influential or popular in some way? Is it some kind of introductory campaign a lot of new groups played or was its impact on the meta-story especially important to players?

>>49284888
>>49284952
C'mon, I think it's funny. Surely it's been long enough that some staler memes can wrap back around again to just weathered old jokes? Give it a few more years and the target demographic for gaming won't even know about old Leeroy.

>>49284929
I really don't think so. I mean, by that token the ending of Dragonfall could seem like a teaser too, and they opted to leave it at that. I think the restraint is a good thing, personally.
I also don't think SRR is done in general given the popularity of the series and the lack of popularity of HBS's other game, but I could be wrong, obviously.

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>>49284952
I don't know, anon.

Unrelatedly, is it possible to do pic related viably?

>>49284837
I don't think they're going to, but it might be a good setup for some enterprising modder to remake the classic printed adventure for SR and the Hong Kong player-character.

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>>49284952
I think it was probably mentioned as a joke during a meeting about new qualities to include in the book, then some idiot ran with it.

>>49284960
It's a very well written adventure, that had a great lead-in and pay-off in the metafiction of surrounding books that continued for IRL years. It's generally considered the high point of SR adventure writing, next to Bottled Demon.

>>49284985
I don't even find new memes funny anon

>>49285022
Easy. Anybody with some walking-around money can manage it in two stops. First, hit up a hardware store and buy yourself a chainsaw. Then, find one of the nicer costume shops (we're not talking those fly-by-night halloween deals here) and get a decent alligator costume. Profit.

>>49284985
>Give it a few more years and the target demographic for gaming won't even know about old Leeroy.
Wrong. Target audiences expand, you know.

>>49285059
>Costume
Nigga you don't understand.

I desire to be a cajun alligator man with a chainsaw, chasing down bounties through the swamps of Louisiana, cracking awful puns all the way.

>>49285022
There aren't stats for crocodile shapeshifters so Surge a Troll I suppose. And there are stats for chainsaws so you're covered on that aspect. Whether the term 'fucked' is currently canon is up to your GM.

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>>49285097
What about the most insanely Halloweener character possible?

>>49285038
>>49285031
Well, if it's an established lead-in from the end of the official campaign as well as a popular and well-known module, maybe that IS a good motivation for making an SR module out of it.

I'm still pretty new to Shadowrun. Would this printed module convert well-enough to a video game? Is it fairly structured with a clear plot or more like a big open world to run around in?

>>49285121
What about them?

>>49285092
Hey man, on all levels except physical, you'd be a gator.

>>49285137
How do you play it properly, what do you grab, etc.

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>>49285127
It already has a game.

>>49285092

Orthoskin, w/ scales, I'm sure there's a muzzle modification you can buy... and the chainsaw is just a chainsaw.

>>49285127
Actually, does anyone know what years the Shadowrun Returns campaigns took place in? All I've got is HK must be just before 2059 since that's when the Arcology shuts down.

>>49285187
There can never be too many "Rampant AIs turn a complex into a murder-pit you have to escape" games.

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>>49285273
Returns is early 2054, Dragonfall is late 2054, Hong Kong is 2055 or 2056.

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>>49285246
>I'm sure there's a muzzle modification you can buy

Junkyard Jaw.

>>49285092
If you want SURGE, there's Claws, Paddle Tail, Underwater Vision, Webbed Digits and possibly refluffed Beak as positives, and Scales, Berserker, Cold-Blooded as negatives.

>>49285340
Wow, really? So there's quite a time-skip involved with the Arcology tease at the end of the extension. I mean I guess ~5 years isn't insurmountable but still.

I feel like if you visited the Seamstress Union in 2059 a few things would've changed from 2054

>>49285281
>>49285187
What sort of personality does Deus have, anyway? Is he a stuttering Shodan psychotic or more coherent? Or entirely alien and above meat-people?

>>49285052
Oh, so you're dat boi

>>49285092
And you use your teeth as the chainsaw teeth, while only being able to painfully gum someone's arm with your muscular jaw?

>>49284929
Someone from HBS announced that they want to break away from Shafowrun for a while, and that if/when SR comes back it'll probably be in 3D.

so i have a few questions.
1. how do i do Rigging? (which of the four contradictory rigging rulesets do i even use and how do i use them.)

2. how are AI as playable types and is an e-ghost a good idea for one?

3. How's AI using an anthrodrone to interract with meatspace? how do i do it and what do i need to do to make it work?

4. how exactly do the anthrodrone's stats translate to personal scale stuff?

What quality would represent a runner being a serial killer/vigilante in their spare time?

>>49285632
I assume they mean jumping from the isometric camera/tileset/3D characters method they have now to a full-3D setup, like how Neverwinter Nights followed the old Infinity Engine games?

Seems like a mistake if you ask me, when the whole CRPG industry went through that change the whole first generation of full 3D games were all pretty shaky and the tech costs were too high cutting into the actual quality and size of the games. Part of the point of HBS doing an infinity-style 2.5D game was it's easy and affordable to make it look good so you can cram your game with more actual game. Then again, I can sympathize if they feel like Shadowrun Returns is just done and they want to move onto something new.

>>49285358
>Cold-Blooded
Only so long as you never go anywhere remotely cold. Sub-20 degrees C is pretty harsh on top of any other penalties.

>>49284448
>How do you handle trolls in your games? Do you make sure that the undersized world they live in is always in their minds? Have the ever lamped themselves running through a door without ducking? Do you talk about the mods they made to their home to make it suitable for their frames? Has a dwarf even sat in a troll-sized chair and fallen into the cushions?
Honestly? It's been over 50 years since goblinization started. Almost every building, at this point, has troll-sized doorways, and most have at least one troll-sized chair, just for politeness. The real issue is that troll-sized shit is more expensive, not that it's harder to find or access.

>>49285793
>Returns
>looks good
No.

>>49285688
Why do you need a quality?

>>49284798
Man, Shadowrun's already a tongue-in-cheek, borderline post-apocalyptic setting full of sovereign corporate enclaves where organized crime went into semi-legitimate business.

Why would you want to make it even more like something as underwhelming as fucking Snow Crash?

>>49285857
Mostly so my sheet looks a bit fuller, but I guess I could fluff a mix of Prejudice and Day Job.

>>49285634
>four contradictory rigging rulesets
Wat.

>are AI as playable
No.

>AI using an anthrodrone to interract with meatspace, How?
Read. The. Books.

>translate anthrodrone's stats to personal scale stuff
Pilot = Mental Attributes & Reaction, Body = Body, Drone Arm Strength = Body, Drone Arm Agility = Pilot

>>49285900
>tongue-in-cheek
j e j

>>49285480
It's mostly just a dramatic device. You're supposed to go 'Oh no, I know what will happen there, that's not good!'. It's basically mugging for the camera.
>>49285634
1. Depends on the kind of rigger you want to be and which of the interpretations for your skills that your GM goes with. Generally speaking, get a bunch of rotodrones, stick ares alphas in their mount and tell them to shoot things you want dead.
2. They're terrible and e-ghosts are only for NPCs.
3. Still terrible, but you basically just make it your home node and take pilot origins.
4. Anthro stats are strength = body, agility = pilot.

>>49285857
So that he can get bonus karma for being a murder-hobo, obviously.

>>49285954
mhm. As the new gm, where are the various rigger rules?

Also why are AI's terrible?

>>49285340
Hong Kong is 2056

>>49285856
It absolutely looks good for what it is - an affordable, barebones platform through which to play some Shadowrun and tell a Shadowrun story. The simplistic style let a small studio make a fairly large and diverse game, otherwise it would've been hard to include everything from the Matrix to spirits to gangs and corps. Plus, it was easy enough for them to make a slew of new assets for campaigns in Berlin and Hong Kong. I respect the design decisions they made.

>>49285052
Go to bed hardfire, you're drunk

>>49286375
When am I not

>>49285954
>e-ghosts are only for NPCs
This misinformation needs to be stamped out.

>Only metasapient AIs can be player characters
Seems straight forward.

>The rules governing proto- and xenosapients are presented below to help gamemasters design and build NPC AIs.
No mention of e-ghosts as NPC only ...

>In terms of rules, e-ghosts are handled like metasapient AIs
... and rules that tell you to handle e-ghosts as metasapients.

>>49285954
>It's mostly just a dramatic device. You're supposed to go 'Oh no, I know what will happen there, that's not good!'. It's basically mugging for the camera.
It kind of is, although the fact that even if you choose to burn the warehouse and stay with your team and the Yellow Lotus, you end up in Seattle anyway, seems like they wanted to make sure the PC would be there for the shutdown.

>>49284516
To take a slightly different tone, perhaps a less extreme one, consider Aztechnology and either of the Tirs. They're both up to their necks in shady stuff, and they don't have a good reputation in the Shadows. Anon's point of not having a list of the evil groups is on the money. Any of the Dragons as well might work as well, overtly or otherwise. He also might have a reputation as a runner killer. If a runner screws up, or absconds with the pay data, your guy has a history of not being squeamish about taking the wetwork.

>>49285504

The latter, concealed by the former. The guy split his code into a million fragments and implanted it as hypnotic suggestions into people's meat brains. He pretended to be a god to the first Technomancers/Otaku, to the point of making them himself. All of that mixed with a hellishly effective understanding of operand conditioning and Hot Sim brain programming.

He's a pretty good take on the inhuman AI. He pretty much got taken out by sheer bad timing.

>>49284516
Have you opened up a copy of Vice recently?

I'm reading the Renraku shutdown supplement now, and it looks a lot more freeform than I expected. Has anyone played it before? Could you share some experiences?

>>49285793
The engine they cooked up for Mechwarrior is 3D so they basically already have something that works with turn-based combat.

>>49284516
Have you considered them working for a Insect Shaman in order to set up a new hive.

As the story progresses have the different johnsons actually start trying to sabotage the others in retaliation for runs the runners themselves did.

Have a yak hire them to abduct a exec of the Koshari so they can sell him as a bunraku. Then have the Koshari's pay double a week later for the party to kill everyone in that parlor.

Have the party suddenly find themselves on the wire knowing that people are very explicitly looking for the runners on the jobs they did. And if they find out who those monsters are...

Well...

>>49286866
I know Aztechnology has a bad reputation, although the specifics of how that affects running for them I'm not so sure about - whether the jobs they give are particularly evil, or they're known for stiffing their runners, or they give normal corp espionage jobs but people just don't like working for Blood Sacrificers.

What's so bad about the Tirs, though? I thought they weren't that different from anyone else apart from when politics puts you on the wrong side of them (A Californian might not like them much, for example). And I know there's that old adage about not working with Dragons but it seems like there's a ton of them of wildly varying agendas so that sounds more like a "they're above your paygrade" warning rather than a "they are evil" one.

>>49286892
No, I only know them through their coverage of Ukraine. Would they help?

>>49287085
I saw that Battletech pre-alpha footage, it looked pretty good. I suppose if that's the track they follow for a future game it could work.

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>>49284869
Damn, didn't think of that. What other things would you use to emulate Snow Crash? Horizon virulent marketing gone wrong?

>>49287095
Those are all pretty good suggestions, in particular the Insect Shaman stuff - somewhat timing-sensitive based on how much people know by that point (even a vantablack hat runner would think twice about the consequences of an insect spirit infestation) but it's got that dirtiest of dirty jobs vibe.

It'd be especially interesting to have the runner community be out for your blood, and not just in terms of people gunning for you. Having to set up your own runner infrastructure even deeper into the shadows and some secure way to get gear, solicit clients and recruit the true dregs of society would be an interesting challenge, especially if you get big enough to turn the tables and try to run your "competition" out of town.

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Here's a question. What does an adept look like? If an adept had a base strength of 1 and had a magical bonus of +4 would he look like he had 1 strength or 5? Does my player's orc adept with strength look like a fucking freak or just a really strong orc?

>>49287115
The Azzies are particularly cruel people. Blood magic is a low most mages dont sink into.

Its not that they DO it that's the problem, its that they are the kind of people that do them.

You dont fuck with the Azzies. They beat a fuckin great dragon.

>>49287320
Adept powers don't give any physical indication of their existence. They're unexpectedly strong.

>>49287136
Read it.

>>49287192
Pizza delivery boys start turning up dead in various gruesome ways, and the Police have set up a slush fund to recruit extradjudical assets to investigate.

>>49287320
A adept looks like a normal person unless they want to be "look im a badass ninja". Magic doesnt really physically affect you.

Otherwise Geek The Mage becomes incredibly easy "That guys glowing, shoot him". Instead of "That guy looks like hes doing something, shoot him."

So a str adept looks like Jackie Chan, a normal guy until he fights and people go "Oh shit thats jackie chan".

A orc adept whose beefy looks just normal beefy. He looks like a freak when he slams the truck into the troll's head.

>>49287136
http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/75129/Shadowrun-Vice

This vice, not the mag.

>>49287320
Think DBZ. Their strength is more than their physical appearance. They'll probably look pretty swole, because they tend to overlap in terms of magical and physical development, but you could very easy portray a superstrong assassin type that's enhanced with magical strength, even though he looks like he has the body of an accountant.

>>49287115
Basically, runners are more than a little edgy when it comes to accepting known Aztechnology work. For one, the Azzies don't tend to tolerate failure, and have a history of asking runners to do some pretty heinous shit. Blood Magic is the most obvious one, but any sort of dodgy making, PR based black ops, or revenge plot fits them to a T. Adding to that, they're one of the most likely to do the ol' Johnson betrayal when it's time for payment.

The Tirs are bad in the black ops wet work sense. They hate you, but they'll employ you, and their work has a very cold blooded spy work feel to it. You get a lot more of a 'disposable pawns' feel to them.

>dragons
Those things are broadly true, which is why anything involving a Dragon tends to be the first strike, 'should I accept this job' wise.

>>49287417
>implying mages don't glow and shoot off fireworks when they cast spells
The second a mage starts casting, everyone knows they're a mage. The trick is not looking like one so they don't geek you before you get the chance to fling some mojo.

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As a GM, how do I properly roleplay as sprites? I've avoided learning about any resonance related things but now one of my players is making a technomancer.

Also, he wanted a free sprite as contact but I can't find any rules for it in 4e, and I'm not sure about their behavior anyway. Pic related is the free sprite I was going to build for him.

>>49287534
My point is adepts dont by default look like they are casting. Just like any other caster.

>>49287584

Formal rules don't exist, but there ARE the AI rules. I'd probably appropriate them, and maybe adapt them a little for Resonance stats. Alternatively, just use the Free Spirit rules, substituting stats where appropriate. Either way, it's a contact, so it's very open to you making things up on the spot.

Roleplaying wise, check out the TM Paragons in Unwired. They give some excellent ideas as to the general theme and nature of a given sprite, so that's a place to start. Like AI's, they don't always grok human concepts, varying with how advanced they are. Some are very alien, some might be able to pass as human in the right circumstances. It really depends on their purpose and context.

Clippy might not be the worst idea for a low level search sprite.

Hello, I'm going to be playing Shadowrun for the first time. It's going to be 5e, and I just want to know: How do I do I do dual wielding? Is it worth it? What kind of stats or skills do I need?

If you need any details on my character's build or concept so far, I'd be more than happy to provide them.

>>49287803
>How do I do I do dual wielding?
You split your dice pool into two smaller pools in order to hit two different targets in a single attack.

>Is it worth it?
Usually not.

>What kind of stats or skills do I need?
As enormous of a Pistols dice pool as you can possibly minmax and the quality to be ambidextrous.

>>49287803
>How do I do I do dual wielding?
You split the dice you would normally roll between the two weapons, so if you would roll 12 for a regular attack, you would instead roll two 6's.
>Is it worth it?
Hell no, between dice splitting, and how the game calculates damages it's almost always worse than just using one weapon.
>What kind of stats or skills do I need?
It's the same as what you would normally use for the attack, if you were using pistols, it's still the pistol skills, but like I said above, you need to split the dice which suuuuucks.

Really just do whatever you were going to do, only with one weapon. It's stronger, it's cheaper, and less weapons to deal with having around.

>>49287803
dual wielding is a way to make multiple attacks, but requires you to split your dice pool. this makes you much less likely to hit, and reduces the damage your hits do.

it isnt very strong, simply because having to split your dice pool really fucking sucks.

the best way is to use a pair of machine pistols or burst-capable heavy pistols with lots of recoil compensation, so you can use the defense penalty from firing a burst to help offset your diminished dice pool.

the penalty for using a weapon in your offhand can be offset by the ambidextrous quality or the bilatteral coordination coprocessor bioware

if you want to use two melee weapons and get some benefit without doing multiple attacks, there is the two weapon attack martial arts technique which has you use the lower reach of your two weapons but gives the weapon you do attack with +1 damage and +1 accuracy (so use two reach 1 weapons)

>>49287803
Rather then duel wield, just have two pistols and alternate, one for armor one for crowd control, and alternate between them.

What skills would a janitor concievably need?

>>49287883
>>49287909
>>49287938
>>49287963
Thank you guys very much! Glad I didn't even really dabble with the idea.

>>49287974
Well, let me rephrase.

What skills would a janitor need?

And what skills would said janitor need to also clean up full crimescenes?

>>49287974
If you want to clean crime scenes and shit, I'd go with chemistry with a specialization in Forensics. Regular janitoring is unskilled labor, and as such... doesn't really need any skill at all.

Is there a meaningful difference between Aztlan and Aztechnology? Or is the government basically just the civilian national management branch of the corp?

>>49288046
Apparently, there's a Forensics skill, but it's from Hard Targets, and hasn't yet been added to Chummer. Yeeka, pls. PLS.

Are you more willing to allow prototype transhuman if the character is not awakened?

>>49287986
It's pretty much only intended for characters with dice pools so large their weapon accuracy is consistently lower than the # of hits rolled. Or attacks vs unaware targets.

>>49288079
In general, probably.

What should you do if your Johnsons keep trying to stiff you on payment? Assuming "get a better fixer" isn't an option?

>>49288066
Ever since it got nationalized, the latter.

>>49288112
Get a better fixer, find a way to screw over the Johnsons without getting yourself too much of a shit reputation, and/or talk to your GM.

>>49288112
Find someone that will offer a job against said payment-stiffing Johnson.

>>49288066
Since 2022 where they started getting called Aztecnology, Azzies run aztlan.

>>49288112
Wait, KEEP? Why would you accept a second job from a guy who screwed you in the past?

This is pretty far into the 'kill the Johnson' territory. Or at least go over his head. If he's stiffing you, then he might be pocketing the extra payment, and his boss might not appreciate that.

>>49288032
There isn't really a skill for it, but I'd say perception is probably important.

Beyond that, I'd say it'd be a knowledge skill. That, and having the right equipment and contacts.

>>49288079
>Inb4 that one guy gets triggered again
Honestly as long as the player has some fluff for it and expects me to throw his negative at him occasionally, I don't really care what they are.

>>49288211
>This is pretty far into the 'kill the Johnson' territory
IMO, players shouldn't be thinking this is an option vs anything but low grade Johnsons.

>>49288112
I've only had one Johnson screw me, and I made damn sure he didn't get away with it. Reputation goes a long way.

>>49288211
Several Johnsons in a row, Fixer keeps claiming the next guy is on the level, can't get out from under working with this Fixer because we need his help to lay low from some outstanding trouble looking for us in the wider world.

Question about spell casting.

So when the book says for example: Death Touch has Force : F - 6

Does that mean force rating minus 6 or that the base force rating is 6 + whatever force the caster picks

I took it to be the latter as those seem more powerful spells, am I being a dummy?

>>49288275
That's not the force, that's how much drain you get. The drain you get in that case would be the force of the spell minus six. Stronger spells cause more drain, but because Death Touch is actually a touch spell rather than a ranged AOE, you have to cast a HUGE before you have to worry about heavy drain.

Note that drain is always a minimum of 2 boxes, regardless of how negative the modifier is.

>>49288263
Details? At this point you really need a new fixer, since dealing directly with the Johnsons who screw you over would make more trouble. Either find a better way to lay low and kill the fixer, or embrace the shitstorms and get a new fixer or whatever. Killing fixers isn't ideal with how influential they usually are, but if you publicize his being an unreliable bastard, people probably won't mind too much as long as his debts get paid.

>>49288256
It depends, really. Some corps care more about their reputation with runners than others. Since runners are the primary way covert ops between corps get done, they may not take kindly to a Johnson stiffing a crew, especially if he wasn't given specific orders to do so.

Plus he might be pocketing the money.

>>49288263
Really? Ask your GM whats going on? There's no real game-wise reason for it to happen that often. Maybe he's building up towards some really big pay-off? Are the runs connected in any way?
Are you at least getting Karma? Maybe he's trying to skew the party; if street sams are dominating and mage/adepts are suffering?

>>49288275

What >>49288302 said, but a little more elaboration:

You will always take 2 drain. So, if you have magic 6, and you use force 6 death touch, You still take 2 stun. If you cast it at 8 force, you take 2 physical. cast it at force 10, then you take 4 physical.

Its a great spell to use, except, ya know, touch range.

>>49288376
You basically need to be a good sneaker or good at unarmed to make that unarmed attack to touch them (so +2 dice, win ties).

Oh, and be careful about casting it blind. You can do that, but if you touch the wrong person, well.

>>49287068
>I'm reading the Renraku shutdown supplement now, and it looks a lot more freeform than I expected. Has anyone played it before? Could you share some experiences?
Just thought I'd ask again - HAS anyone played the Renraku Arcology Shutdown module before? I suppose it's 18 years old at this point so it's not unreasonable that people haven't.
Also, was there some sort of "canon account" of how the shutdown ended? Like, a novelization or future splatbooks that say so-and-so saved the day or whatever?

>>49288329
Point is, Runners aren't necessarily the best, they're just the best option for deniable ops. Johnsons usually either wield some power within the corp, or act on behalf of someone who does. Getting to them and killing them without serious difficulty (and possibly rep blowbacks, regardless of the Johnsons actions) shouldn't be any old feat, that groups should consider it before other options.

Am I insane, or do sensor functions not actually have a price?

What does the rating for them do?

>>49288666
Functions don't. Sensors do. Sensors can hold a limited number of functions. Price varies based on rating and how many functions a sensor can have.

>>49288739
Though it's not explicitly stated RAW, I usually restrict the number of sensor array functions to the rating.

>>49288666
If you have good stats (or a helpful technomancer around to Machine Sprite stuff up) then you can do this with a cyber-arm: get a rating 5 sensor (array if you have nothing else to do with the difference in capacity), make it a camera (for an array make one of the functions a camera) and give it whatever you want as long as you have at least 3 Vision Enhancement.

Roll Perception+Intuition [5] (if you get wireless bonus, and you probably should) versus the target's probable Stealth+Agi. Every net hit you get is now a penalty on the target's Defense tests until they are dead or break your lock on.

Combine with a burst capable weapon and watch the enemy's defense pools drop.

>>49288841
It actually is stated. An array can have from two to eight functions. (By RAW you can buy an array with just one function, but that's not a good deal in any way.)

Taking a full array saves on capacity, with the savings being balanced by the extra cost in nuyen.

On the other hand, if you just wanted one or two sensors, putting both of them in separately saves on both.

>>49285121
Could also be a scatterbrain, since as far as I know they ONLY dress as clowns.

>>49288875

This seems pretty badass. Do I HAVE to have a cyber arm for this? Are there alternate ways of pulling this off?

>>49288978
You could get a large drone. Any non-cyberlimb portable sensor array will have a much lower rating.

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>>49287320
>What does an adept look like

This, obviously.

>>49288991

Why does it have to be a large one? Can't you stick a camera in a small one, or even a tiny one?

>>49288978
Like >>49288991 said, yeah you can have other things. But if you're doing it for yourself, then the real options are RFID/headware/headgear/other audio or visual device (limit 2, usually a sensor) or a handheld housing (limit 3, up to three functions).

In either of those cases you're going to have to spend edge to break the limit, so it's much less useful. On the other hand, an edged sensor attack can really teach people the meaning of pain.

>>49289025
Depends on how good you want it to be. Particularly the range.

So for a mixed ranged/melee fighter is there any ware that I'll need alongside the typical gun bunny stuff? I ask because its the first time I've made a guy who could fight in melee..

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So gonna ask again just to get a broader opinion. How would you folks run and play bancho stuff in SR? Relatively new player looking to do some Oni Bancho play and seeing how people might or might not handle it. Bancho and Sukeban in SR in general I suppose!

>>49289086
A cyber arm with +3 AGI, and depending on your melee weapon choice, +3 STR too. Some melee weapons are boosted by strength, some are not, if they are, get the 3 bonus dice, because hey, 3 bonus dice.

>>49289025
Unlike what >>49289062 says, it's alll about the limit for sensor attacks. (For regular viewing stuff you can usually use the much better limits and stats of you or your drone.)

>>49288534
I don't recall the book, but it was formally finished, yeah. Renraku eventually retook the building floor by floor, but by that stage, Deus had encoded himself into the brains of his test subjects, and effectively smuggled himself out of the areology that way. Which was the subject of the Brain Scan look. The CEO of Renraku was hit by some bad psychotropic ICE before Deus went rogue, but he was eventually healed by mysterious forces in Tibet, behind the barrier. He returned, and when his team stormed the Arcology, he was able to shut Deus down with secret programs only he knew about, being a key designer of Deus in the first place. Deus anticipated that that would eventually happen, though, hence the brain encodings.

Pax, the leader of Deus's cult, escaped the Areology and would later become a key Dissonance technomancer.

>>49288256

If they're stiffing their runners, they're low grade Johnsons.
>>49288263
The Fixer has one job. Literally, one job. Put you in contact with reliable people. If he can't do that, his value is extremely limited.

He's not the only game in town as far as laying low's concerned, or he shouldn't be if your GM is halfway committed to the setting.

>>49289258
>If they're stiffing their runners, they're low grade Johnsons
Only Sith deal in absolutes.

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Stat me /srg/

>>49289325
+10 comfy points.

>>49289283
It's pretty much true, though. A high-grade Johnson that decides to stiff his runners is generally going to leave a pile of corpses instead of a group of revenge-seekers.

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>>49289325
former bottled water salesman turned villain

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>>49289389
>DW
Good taste is cartoons.

>>49289363
It really isn't so absolute.

For instance; a Johnson that's sure of the runners' inability to get back at them, or has misdirected their efforts towards a rival.

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Hobo sniper guy from earlier, I've revised the character a bit and basically remade it. I still have no idea what the fuck I'm doing, but this is at least hopefully less shit?

If there're issues, please tell me.

>>49289325
No seriously, how do I go about making this character?

Are there guidelines for this?

>>49289459
Dont play with this man, He is a Hardfire.

>>49289258
If how Deus is eventually rooted out of the Arcology is already canonized, what are players supposed to do during the module? It reads like he's the evil overlord of a cyberpunk dungeon, it seems weird to invade a dungeon and not go after the final boss.

>>49289493
What?

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I made a character. Babby's first elf face turned gun smuggler (but doesn't quite have the money for a full operation).

>>49289493
>Implying I would ever use a crossbow
Now that's just rude, SAM.

>>49288302
>>49288376
thanks for clarifying

>>49289627
Close but soo soooo far, Maybe Jess or Bill knows me.

>>49288534
>>49289504
Arcology Shutdown is more like a setting sourcebook than an adventure. Brain Scan is the adventure module that deals with the end of Deus, with the players heavily involved in pretty much every facet of the shenanigans for taking him down.

>>49289490
Shapeshifter: Dog. The rest requires more decisions.

>>49289459
I dont really see any myself, to be honest.
if you have fun playing it, thats all that matters.

>>49289729
I mean, will it actually contribute to a party? It's got the ability to clean places up, has infiltration to get into places, it SHOULD be relatively competent in combat through Revels in Murder+~20 dicepool for archery, and it's got enough init that it should hopefully be decent.

I think?

>>49289714
You're Big Baddie Bill

>>49289770
I dont see why not, i mean it'd be fairly hard, barring setting restrictions or straight up bad luck, for any sort of character to not be able to contribute. The main thing you should worry about is fun, really. because if you keep worrying about the crunch you'll likely not have a good time, tho thats just my opinion.

>>49289822
Oh, no, I like the fluff of him and I'm fairly sure I'll have fun, I just want to make sure I haven't made some awful glaring mistake that's going to render me useless or something.

>>49289857
Aye, even then im sure the GM will gladly work with you on it if you find a mistake like that or such. My advice would probably be to give it some sort of 'test combat' or something.

As a technomancer, my only respite from the horrors of my abilities are being cute. What the fuck do I do?

For a Kenjutsu swordsman, what one handed swords would they use? I figured they'd probably have a katana but what about something shorter and more concealable?

>>49290247
A bokken maybe? im sure it can be easily modified to have a blade concealed within the wood

>>49290261
Not a bad idea..but can you make a sword out of a material that wont trip scanners? I recall something like that in hard targets actually..

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>>49290173
Wait for the technomancer book to come out?

>>49289459
Anyone mind trying to look at this? The other replies are a guy who's in the campaign.

>>49290300
Maybe a ceramic like material forming the blade? I'm sorry im afraid my rather inexperance with the setting kinda limits me with this since i dont know what all, tech wise, would be available.

>>49290173

Are Technos really that bad?

>>49290327
>Crossbows
>20XX

>>49287534
>The second a mage starts casting, everyone knows they're a mage
No they don't, that's why there's a perception check to notice it

>>49290578
To be fair, its a fairly easy percep roll to notice, especially when they all pretty much do this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XF-MDuXXiSI

>>49290585
Yeah, but my point is that the knowledge just doesn't bing into their head, they still have to roll to notice.

Until, of course, they do something like what you linked or they cast at a Force so high it becomes a negative threshold to hit.

So in 4e, can a technomancer use sprites to assist their stealth programs (by adding rating) when exploit hacking into nodes? Does it automatically follow them into the node to continue bolstering stealth or does it also have to exploit its way in/be granted access?

Rating 5 sprite boosting a stealth score to 10+ seems like it would make detection almost impossible for all but the most high security systems, and that worries me a bit since the game I'm running is supposed to be low powered.

>>49290300
>>49290343

I believe there are sapphire or ceramic blades for knives in 5th edition, not sure if the manufacturing is up to swords though.

>>49290500
Technos are about as good as elves are in a ShindoL doujin.

>>49290766
>So in 4e, can a technomancer
No

"Following"

Wait a minute.

Fucking uniforms are 16F?

What?

How the fuck is it THAT hard to get a goddamn uniform?

How are you meant to disguise yourself to go into places, clothes-wise?

>>49291405

Magic son. Fashion is a fun spell.

A repeat of last thread's question, since I didn't get a response to it:
'Could it theoretically be done to put a satellite receiver on a computer terminal or device, such as a drone, and then use a satellite uplink on a cyberdeck/remote control deck to connect straight to that receiver on a secure channel, without having to bounce it off a satellite in orbit? Basically that you'd be tying the RC/deck's satellite connection features to the drone/terminal by designing it to respond to the signal the same way a satellite would when receiving it.'

>>49284952
Shitty meme name aside I think the quality itself is fine and reflects a certain approach to things that some characters would take. Very appropriate for highly armoured trolls without the ability to give a fuck and Pink Mohawks in general.

How do I actually spend karma on knowledge skills in Chummer?

>>49291441
Atmosphere, terrain, noise, and other shit is what gets in the way of wirelessly connecting to devices directly on the ground. The entire point of a satellite link is so that you have that strong signal bouncing up and over any obstacles, with potentially global range.

>>49291515
So that's a yes, then, since that's exactly what a drone would be doing.

>>49291521
Oh, you mean having an airborne drone bounce your signal?

That's called a Retrans Unit, it's a standard drone mod.

>>49291530
Ah, neat. So in other words it's possible to put a satellite dish/feature on a control deck, and then a Retrans Unit on a drone, and thus have satellite-quality connectivity to that drone?

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>>49291405
The 16F is for a PERFECT uniform. Correct number of chevrons for years of service, advice on how to wear it properly, et cetera.
>>49291576
Yes.
>>49291497
You... increase the associated number control?
>>49290766
Threading is pretty much the best thing about technomancers in 4th, and can substantially break most of the Matrix open. You don't have a lot of options for it, save for a gentleman's agreement that you won't do it.

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Alright, sheet is hopefully somewhat finished now.

How'd I do on this?

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>>49284448
Guys, I'm totally new in Shadowrun. My friends invited me to play, and suggested decker.

Now I don't have idea what to do, I've build character with good mental stats and augumented his poor physical stats with ware. I have general idea for his goals and history, but I have one major problem.

I have no idea how to play this game. Or rather, what to do during runs? I played mostly Warhammer and DnD, so splitting the party seems like bad idea, yet I read that shadowrunners often split during run, so decker, rigger or mage doesn't see fight at all.

Could you tell me about "typical" run? How it look? I'm confused.

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>>49285851
I can see private homes and many public buildings 20+ years old not sized for trolls. A 10-foot doorway and 12 foot ceilings are expensive modifications for every building in the world.

>>49292102
There really is no typical run. It all depends on the restrictions/goals the Johnson gives you, the concrete obstacles in your way to those goals and the skills of your player group.

You can go for Ocean's Eleven style masterheist shenanigans where none is the wiser, you were ever there.
You can just break the doors down and brute force through.

There a lots of directions to tackle any given objective from and which are worth a try depend on your characters.

For example, if you are playing a decker. What kind of person is your decker? Where did he learn his skills? Is he the kind of decker, who fucks with enemy equipment in the middle of a firefight. Or does he prefer a more subtle approach, where he tries to get into the scheduling system for the security forces and conveniently creates an entry for a training excercise in another facility, where a big number of guards are sent, the day of the run.

Or is he the kind of decker I am playing that sets all the janitorial drones to floor waxing for the next 48 hours and grabs all the personnel files of female employees for further investigation.

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>>49286633
this.

>>49288079
>Are you more willing to allow prototype transhuman if the character is not awakened?
Yes. It's hideously OP for the Awakened, but relatively balanced for mundanes.

>>49288112
>What should you do if your Johnsons keep trying to stiff you on payment?
Start killing Johnsons until they get the message, get a better fixer.

>>49289504
Like most Shadowrun arcs, it has practically infinite ways to involve the character. Remember, this isn't DnD. If you are the heroes, chances are nobody'll hear about you. The Runner's might have been involved with the team that stormed the place, or provided critical sabotage, or were fighting Deus inside an UV node at the time, or were the team that extracted the CEO after he succeeded, but triggered all of the security in the process. Maybe the CEO doing it was just the public story, and it was actually the runners the entire time. Use your imagination. In a lot of respects, the fluff is the official story. Or at least, the most superficial reporting of the facts.

>>49291441
What you're describing is really more of a regular wireless channel than anything else. Although all things being equal, I'd assume that the sorts of signals you use for satellite uplink wouldn't be appropriate for cross-ground talking. Why would you bother?

>>49290766
Yeah, welcome to Catalyst. Play testing is for other people.

>>49289283

Possibly, but I can't imagine the morbidity percentages are particularly good for cheap Johnsons. Particularly ones that discover how cheap they are post-run. Runners are already a dice roll.

>>49290578
>No they don't, that's why there's a perception check to notice it
Motherfucker, you need a Perception test to notice gunfire (threshold 1 for standard, threshold 2 for suppressed). Shit can be obvious as fuck and still need a Perception test.

>>49291405
>How the fuck is it THAT hard to get a goddamn uniform?
That's fairly easy to get ahold of for a decent Face, but it'll also stand up to scrutiny.

>>49292102
Let me tell you how this goes:
>hacking in Shadowrun is fucked
>vet SR players hate hacking and don't play hackers
>new guy comes in, gets the one job no one else is doing: hacking
>new guy can't into hacking either
>hacking is terrible, slow, jumbled mess on all fronts
>everyone hates hacking even more now
>new guy becomes vet, starts playing other roles that are less fucked
>group has no hackers again
>ad nauseam

>>49292162
>20+ years old
The Goblinization was over 50 years ago. Many buildings still not being sized for trolls kinda made sense in the 2050s - they were just starting to do those renovations, after the shock of trolls existing wore off.

But the majority of buildings will have troll-sized doorways, and ceilings that are low for a troll, but which they won't scrape their horns on, as long as you're not squatting in a 20th century ruin out in the fucking Barrens or something.

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>>49288953
Halloweeners wear all kinds of costumes, the more outrageous and monstrous the better. Killer clowns, Dracula, Grim Reaper, whatever. Various leaders of the sub-gangs theme their minions however they want (So Carnevil has an evil circus, there's one lady with a Monster Bride motif, etc). Standard wear is orange and black gang colours.

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>>49289504
>If how Deus is eventually rooted out of the Arcology is already canonized, what are players supposed to do during the module?

>implying that the canon results were published when Brain Scan was released

It's been more than 15 years, anon, they had to say how it turned out, otherwise there's a gaping hole in the metafiction.

>>49292102

Well, here's a possible sample run.
>Runners are hired to steal a prototype from a lab.
>The hacker breaks into an ancillary administration database and picks up a copy of the fire escape plan, giving the runner's a floorpan to work with.
>the face schmoozes with the right people and gets some fake uniforms.
>the mage scopes out the place astrally, and gets a nice fat spirit on retainer.
>The hacker breaks into the external lab system, and fiddles with the security scanning system at the front door, allowing the rest of the team in, who are dressed as janitorial staff. The face lies his ass off and they pass muster.
>The sammy mugs a senior manager, hides the body, and takes his pass key. The hacker conceals the security camera footage, then enters the building himself. There's a pants-shitting moment when he's accosted by two company execs initialising a new physical bridge in the IT admin room desk, but he's able to tazer them, and jack into the core system.
>the hacker fiddles with the system just enough to obscure the biometrics a bit so it's useable.
>the team breaks into the key lab itself
>meanwhile, the hacker has set off a false alarm at another lab the company holds, and the bomb the sammy was working on goes off at the front door of another facility, occupying the first response crews.
>the team grab the prototype, but the alarm is raised when the sammy notices a high tech gun the lab is also working on. Despite the pleas of the rest of the group, he runs back to where the hacker is, and uses 3 stimulate doses on one of the executives. The executive refuses to give him the code, and triggers a silent alarm. The sammy tries the Jack Bauer solution, and accidentally kills the executive. Meanwhile the hacker disables the last security layers, allowing the Face access to the electronic lock, which he disables.
>team fights for their lives through the automated defences, while the hacker subverts some the building to give them the advantage.

>>49292321
>The Goblinization was over 50 years ago.

At which point they were immediately marginalized, and twenty years on massacred in an attempted genocide. Nobody was in a rush to cater to trolls.

>>49292102
>Could you tell me about "typical" run? How it look?
Alright, your typical run looks something like this:

>Legwork: You case the place you're planning on robbing, and often surveill it from a distance. Ideally, you identify several security flaws that you'll be able to exploit later on, and hopefully an opening that'll make infiltrating easier later. During this phase the Face/Infiltrator will be going into the place in plain clothes to look around, the Rigger will be watching with his van's sensor array while he sends a camera drone into the place, the mage will be Assensing everything that so much as flickers on the astral, and the Decker will be trying to peek through cameras and figure out what the place's security setup is like.

>Infiltration: Whether you sneak in through the back or blast your way in through the front, now you need to get into the place. Your 'standard' run is one where you go into a corporate facility and steal something, but there's a fuckton more variety than that. Ultimately, the goal is usually to move fast and quiet enough, covering your tracks digitally, that you get noticed as late as possible - but you usually will inevitably get noticed. The decker's job in this is to hack open doors, hack security cameras, and hack security systems.

>Do the Thing: Whatever you were hired to do, it's time to do it. You've infiltrated your way through the building, disabled any security features between you and your target, and it's time to do it. Sometimes it's stealing a priceless vase off of a pedestal. Sometimes it's murdering a man in his sleep. If the decker is the guy Doing the Thing, it's probably hacking a server and either planting files or stealing files. This step is fairly straightforward, but also the step most likely to trigger the alarms, even if you've done everything right up to this point.

>Escape: Get the fuck out without them shooting you, and with them unable to track you home. The most important step.

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>>49292296
>>vet SR players hate hacking and don't play hackers

I've only seen hackers played by veterans, or autists who can learn all the rules. It's clunky, but I and other enjoy hacking, especially now that we're through the 4e "literally anyone can go down to Radio Shack and buy something to do your job" bullshit.

>>49292457
I miss those halcyon days. Back when everyone was blissfully able to not-play-a-hacker because the Adept could just blow all of their money on hackerware and an agent to do it for us.

Those were entirely better than today, where everyone has to shout 'not it' and the last person has to play a fucking decker.

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>>49292321
From Run Faster
>Try to play up the fact that you really don’t fit into other people’s vehicles and that the world just isn’t built for you. Depression would be common, along with anger at the world for not fitting and being too small or delicate for you. One thing you can do when playing a troll is ask the gamemaster not to give you the oversized glass of soybeer; instead tell him you’d rather it was made a point that you’re forced to drink regular-size glasses, which look like kids’ cups in your hands, and cost you a fortune to drink enough.

>Gamemasters, remember the world doesn’t adjust for the large-and-ungainly five percent, unless they have money. Which is not the case for most trolls.

It's explicit that the world did not resize itself over the past 50 years for trolls, preferring to keep things as they are and just marginalize all of them except the most wealthy. There's a reason EVO and Krime are noticable- they do what others don't by making troll-sized items.

>>49292478
At my table, Hacker is never last picked, its Face. But thats because my group is all engineers and comp sci majors with less combined social skill than a pile of bricks.

I love you fuckers

>>49292172
That's a interesting way to collect Paydata if I ever heard one.

>>49287974
If by janitor you mean mod, sucking dick and taking it up the ass from gook data miners.

>>49292527
As a socialess austi I always go for face because I want to be likable for once.

Different strokes I guess.

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Building my first decker atm, planning on having some drone backup for personal security and surveillance (not going full rigger, just a couple of protectotrons).

Is it worth it buying a cheap RCC and slaving that to my deck to coordinate them (while using my deck's firewall to protect them)? I don't think I can, but can I slave the drones to my deck so they still have Matrix protection, even if I can only command them one at a time?

How do I deal with large areas? My mat's pretty big, but it's not big enough to really handle the kind of floor plans that would fit something like a casino, at least not at a scale where 1 square = only enough space for one person.

>>49293193
Personally, I don't go with full battlemats for Shadowrun, just because there's so many places the PCs might go and they often split into different groups in entirely different areas.

I sketch out the bones of the area on blank paper (sometimes a few different sheets, like "Front Courtyard", "Lobby", and "Lab") and if necessary we push tokens around for approximate positions.

>>49293094
Don't bother. Unless you're going full rigger, those drones are just going to blow your cover, cost you a ton of money, and then get exploded by the first guard who looks at them funny. Drones are really quite shit unless you're willing to burn a whole lot of resources on them, and they have an expensive baseline investment even if you're not willing to go the full mile.

>>49293193
Digital map. You're playing Shadowrun, omae. Using a laptop for visual aids isn't out of theme.

How do you guys make 'average joes'?

I mean, obviously they're runners, so they're not actually average, but I more mean, like, non-min/max'd characters? Or do you always try to smurf a character?

(This is assuming that the rest of the party is also making less-than-optimal characters, and the GM is aware of this)

>>49294229
Come up with the concept first. Don't even think about the character sheet when you come up with the concept - if anything, take ideas from individual items/spells or combinations of two or three of them.
After that, get into Chummer and see how it fits together, and don't look at the numbers. If you can do it, do it, and then print out the sheet and play.

>>49294229

Don't take anything above 4, and have a bunch of stuff below it. Don't be afraid to take SOME of a skill. Basically, don't excel in any one area, but double down on the flexibility. Skill groups are great, here.

All things considered, Shadowrun makes it pretty easy to be great at one thing, and then decent at a whole lot of other stuff. Or decent at a huge range of skills.

Or to put it another way, make a character ignoring future growth. THAT cuts down on a whole bunch of min-max distortions.

>>49294310
>Come up with the concept first.
It's kinda sad that this needs to be said.

>>49294328
Especially CGL Shadowrun editions are so min-maxable that you need to think in numbers instead of characters if you don't want to get completely eclipsed by the number-cruncher next to you.

>>49285504
He's got some human traits, given that
>he
>hellbent on revenge

>>49294229
>How do you guys make 'average joes'?
Shadowrun's character creation model strongly encourages making a specialist at chargen, and then filling out their weaknesses post-chargen, rather than creating a generalist and then making them exceptional.

It's really easy to do the former, and really, really hard to do the latter. Like, orders of magnitude easy - it's super cheap to become average-ish in something that you're bad at, and astoundingly expensive to become good at something where you're mediocre.

If I had to make an 'average joe' character, though? I'd do it with the various drug 'ware, and then switch my drug loadout around depending on whether I'm expecting combat, social stuff, or whatever the fuck else.

>>49294413

huh. I was planning on going the drug route anyways.

>>49294229
Id avoid having magic. Magic is special in a way the others aren't. A mage can learn how to hack but a hacker cant learn magic.

>>49294429
Then what you do is A Attributes (for versatility), B Skills (again, versatility), and C Resources.

You want the Narco genemod, a Nephritic Screen, and that one Quality that gives you a bonus to resist addictions.

Dwarf is your best choice for drugs, because of the bonus to both Willpower and Body with no penalty to Logic, but since you want to be a generalist you'll have to go Metatype B. Decide whether you prefer the Edge of a human for extra generalist, or the Charisma of an Elf so that being a Face will be your actual primary.

For combat, load pharmaceutical-grade Kamikaze and Betameth. For social, EX is your best bet, because it won't conflict with taking some Betameth just in case, whereas combining Betameth with Novacoke will give you an overdose. For non-social legwork, take some Psyche for that sweet +2 Intuition and +2 Logic, and chew some Betel for +1 Perception.

Remember to always, ALWAYS use at least Pharmaceutical-grade shit. It'll seriously help with any Crash effects, and dramatically reduce your addiction risk.

Never combine more than two drugs at once.

Don't expect to be able to be an actual specialist this way. It's possible to be a combat-specialist druggie, or a face-specialist druggie, but you're not going to work your way up into being a decker with this build. You'll be a useful generalist, able to help everybody as a backup/assistant to a real specialist. Being the Face is your best bet if you do want to specialize.

>>49292025
fuck off desu, quit obsessing over your character and have fun

unless you did something literally retarded like going magic with 1 magic or some shit like being a technomancer you'll be fine

>>49294499
To be fair, the guy was asking for a non-min-maxed character because all the others were going that route too.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but what you're suggesting is minmaxing.
If the anon who originally asked could answer whether he meant "optimized non-optimal concepts like four-limbs sammy, edgemaster junkie or technomancer" or "just whatever seems fun because no one's getting super-mechanical", it would clear things up.

>>49294550
Well, to also be fair, he doesn't have to use all the drugs all the time.

If the rest of the crew is a bunch of Joes who are just kinda decent/not-bad at everything, then there's going to be a problem when they need something a bit better than okay, and that's when you stick 14 needles into your arm and set the volume of the EDM playing through your commlink to 'All-Consuming.'

So what code names/alias do you use for your characters? Or do you say fuck it and make your name the only alias you need?

I've got a decker who goes by glitch net on comms and when he wants to leave a signature behind in ASCII surrounded by space invaders

>>49294550
>Correct me if I'm wrong, but what you're suggesting is minmaxing.
You're wrong. What I'm suggesting is having good Attributes that lend themselves well to further enhancement by drugs. I specifically call out that he won't be able to be a specialist by going this route, just be a decent generalist able to swing himself one direction or another by getting high.

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>>49294612
Everybody has a street name, and they are all terrible, and I love it. I'm actually very mildly annoyed that the character roster goes by real names and not alias.

>>49294612
>So what code names/alias do you use for your characters?
Of all of the characters that I've actually played, their runner names were:
>Their gamer tag
>Their Urban Brawl nickname
>Their racer name

The others have just gone by their actual names, because they're not faggots.

>>49294612

I usually try to imagine what others would call the character, because picking your own nickname is for twats, so I typically end up with something that rolls well and can be turned into an insult just by changing the tone you say it in.

>>49294670
So it's minmaxing in my worldview, because you're making calculations to ensure that the character gets the best stats possible, giving the player tips to what he should do with the character, what items he should buy and what traits he should take before he even works out the concept.
If the other characters are unoptimized, his character will need to be unoptimized too - and correct me if I'm wrong, putting up calculations and matching numbers for the best results is optimization. It's taking place with a suboptimal character concept, but the fact that he mentioned that the rest of the players were going to play unoptimized characters implies that even the powerful roles (mage, adept) are going to be unoptimized.

>>49294550
>four-limbs sammy

I thought you couldn't do this in shadowrun.

>>49294735

You can, it's just a tire fire since it gobbles up a bunch of Essence on basically nothing.

>>49294735
You're brutally punished for it in neo-Shadowrun.
Go back to 3e and experience actual cyberpunk instead of cybernetics being a vehicle for the authors' special-snowflake magic-using self-inserts to interact with canon figures while the PCs are cut off from the society that should have been a major theme of the game just to sit there and gape at the amazing things going on.

>>49294694
So something like cuntwaffle? Endearing from friends, insult from anyone else?

>>49294686
I did both.
My characters were either a amnesiac corp labrat or a thrill seeking SINner who got his chip temporarily removed.
So they HAD names but their names were Blitz Volley and Crater Smokes.
Crater was fun, he was obsessed with collecting guns.

>>49294612

I'm gonna name my Drug addict "O.D" pronounced "Odie"

>>49294760
I have no idea what you are talking about, all i know is your really mad at something.

are grapple guns worth it?

>>49294795
Be prepared for fat orange cat jokes.

>>49294778

I did in fact have a Troll named Dickhead under this system because he had a big dermal deposit front and center.

Unsurprisingly, I fluffed all his unarmed attacks as headbutts.

>>49294686
Wait wait wait, is that a gif from hackers?

I hope this movie gets a rework sometime, I'd love to see the cheesiness of old tech in modern theatres, with a retro cyberpunk feel that doesn't cross into blade runner technology territory

>>49294832
Was he a total juggernaut when it came to breaking shit?

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>>49294836
It is.

you're a monster for wanting a remake, they could never capture that same enthusiasm again. It'll be the same cringy feeling as so many remakes, where they are too self-aware and winking at the camera

>>49294829

is Garfield even still a thing in 2075?

>>49294836
by this I mean floppy disks and shit are prevalent, as are corded phones, but it's not quite dystopian, as much as set in Detroit. Plus nothing like replicants or cybernetic limbs or anything. Just retro technology in a modern format

>>49294901
In the dark future of the sixth world, Garfields not only a thing but POPULAR.

>>49294896
But if it gets done right? It could be a beautiful thing

>>49294922
As well as lasoygna

>>49294922

No Regrets. He's gonna be high and chill 24/7, so fuck it, he won't mind a fat cat joke. Hell, he might even make a joke about it too.

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>>49294926
>Current Year
>Hollywood doing anything right

>>49294991
Episode VII was fucking amazing, so as long as the writers and directors aren't railroaded by execs, it might have a chance.

>>49294728
I strongly disagree, because to be minmaxing you have to dump things - that's the min. The point is to take Attributes A so that you can be more or less average in anything/everything, not to munchkin your way into some ideal stats for actual competence.

Your worldview is retarded.

>>49294735
>I thought you couldn't do this in shadowrun.
You definitely can, and it's the main way to make an armor/tank build, since four cyberlimbs lets you get 12 armor and extra Physical wound boxes. The trick is that you have to get things like Biocompatibility, Adapsin, and Alphaware to make the Essence costs more manageable, and usually the Enhancements have to wait for post-chargen.

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>>49295026
>Thinks Episode VII was good
>Thinks that movie wasn't entirely designed and written by executives

>>49295035
Let's see how many people agree with you. Even your definition of "min-maxing" is min-maxed.
There's more than just one single way to do something. What would you call what you're doing if not "min-maxing" or "optimizing"?
If you say "building a functional character", you will then have missed literally everything that the original poster stipulated.

>>49295063
>Thinks Episode VII was bad
You're a hipster. You hate things that are popular instead of forming your own opinion.

Faggot.

>>49295071
>What would you call what you're doing if not "min-maxing" or "optimizing"?
"Making the kind of generalist the OP asked for."

Attributes A gives him an average attribute score not exceeding 4, with drugs pushing it one way or another.

What OP was asking for was:
>I mean, obviously they're runners, so they're not actually average, but I more mean, like, non-min/max'd characters?

And this is how you do it.

Or do you think I should have advised him to ignore the chargen rules entirely and just give nothing above a C priority?

Like, what are you even criticizing here, you ineloquent retard?

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>>49295073
>I-I know it's a retread of Episode IV's plot with worse reasoning, and backtracks the characterization of every character we knew and the new characters have almost nothing going for them, and has one of the least satisfying endings in recent history, but you're a hipster because you don't mindlessly love it because "muh star wars" and "they'll fix all the bullshit in sequels, because making a functional movie that stands on it's own in 2.25 hours is so last century."

>>49295099
It does look like the point was more for "How to just make a normal character".

Making a optimised everyman and making a average joe are pretty different.

And on the "if they dont have a optimized guy backing them theyd lose" is silly because if the dm party wipes them for not munchkining enough, well then he deserves the kind of party the players will roll next.

>>49295099
You're completely out of my depth. You're completely misinterpreting what "average Joe" means, what "non-optimized" means and what people are actually saying. You seem to have had an idea inside your own head that you instantly assume that all other people must subscribe to, and react with yowling, wailing retardation when it's even politely implied that you're wrong.
I fucking answered OP's question already, and then you have to pick a fight with me when I ask what's behind your reasoning.
You honestly give me the same vibe I get when talking to people who literally believe that the lizard people put "fake gluten" in our food.

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>>49295099
>"Making the kind of generalist the OP asked for."

OP didn't ask for that. The guy just asked how to avoid minmaxing, not how to optimize as a generalist. A guy who is just above human average (human average being 3.5) at every aspect of life, with a boatload of skills, is making the best generalist possible.

Not even the guy you're arguing with, but saying you didn't optimize is retarded. The actual answer that guy needs is "waste karma and nuyen on flavourful things that won't matter in the slightest in actual gameplay."

>>49295149
>you have to pick a fight with me
Anon, I think you need to go figure some shit out if you think you're the one being picked on here.

>>49295158
>A guy who is just above human average (human average being 3.5) at every aspect of life, with a boatload of skills
So your advice literally is 'ignore chargen rules and don't exceed C priority in anything,' then.

Got it.

>>49295158
>>49295149
>>49295140
>>49295099

OP here.

I just wanted some information, and you all provided perspective. I'm not 100% subscribing to anything anyone is saying. Just stop bickering, alright?

>>49295209
>stop bickering
shut up faggot, where do you think you are?
This is /srg/ aka "You all are minmaxer rollplayer special snowflake mary sue autist faggots" general
what are you here for if not for insulting everyone else?
/sarcasm

>>49295244
You're not wrong

>>49295164
Check back and see who it was who first called the other guy a retard.
I even tried to be polite, but I guess that's wasted here.
Do you consider everyone pointing out that they don't agree with you to be victimizing you? You must lead a very interesting life from your own viewpoint and your own viewpoint only.

>>49295063
I'm more referencing how suicide squad was "too gritty" for the studio, made them reshoot shit, then released a slapdash job full of mistakes. Executives of course are allowed to have a word it the process, but they need to have faith in the crew

>>49295388
>/sarcasm
3e autist, It was totally exaggerated

>>49295575
>3e autist
How you got that from me remarking that everyone here is a special snowflake rollplayer is beyond me

I saw the spoiler you tosser, I was saying that, despite your sarcasm, what you are saying is fairly true

>>49295575
Not everyone who disagrees with you is the same person.
t. 3e autist

>>49295677
>>49295731
sorry chummers, fairly late here, sorry to mix you up
also, how do you guys even get internet at the retirement home?

>>49295802
Dialup, mostly

>>49295802
Ironically enough (for you, at least), I'm not even that old compared to some people on here. It might surprise you that other people in their twenties actually have good taste.

>>49295395
Mate, you accused me of minmaxing goddamn twice before I called your opinion retarded.

'Polite' is telling someone they're wrong and being done with it, at least in this part of the internet.

What you did is passive-aggressively type out two entire goddamn paragraphs on how someone's wrong and should feel bad, couch the whole thing in pseudo-polite vocabulary, and then acted fucking mortified when you got called on it.

You whiny-ass bitch.

>>49295842
For fuck's sakes.
You think you're good at reading people, don't you? You're reading too much into people and always coming away with the idea that you're in the right. The fact that other people have the brainpower and attention span to type out actual arguments (not that you didn't force yourself into gear to retaliate right away) doesn't mean that they're using all that time on victimizing your precious little ego.
I was pointing out what I thought not because I was trying to be passive-aggressive and not because I was actually being passive-aggressive, but because I was trying to communicate with you and pointing out that it probably wasn't what OP wanted. I might have been a tad annoyed at the fact that you immediately jumped to actual min-maxing when OP asked for the opposite, but I was actively trying to not start a shitstorm because I do that too goddamn often. Guess that effort was wasted on a 5e player who confirms all of my stereotypes - snappy, childish, thin-skinned minmaxer who fails to understand the fundamental principles of roleplaying because he was raised by Wil Wheaton to believe that he was a "true geek" when he'd touched a die with more or less than six sides.
You want to see how people sound when they're angry, I'm going to show you. Not every single fucking comment is a painstakingly thought-out attempt to insult you between the lines, and to be honest, you're not worth that much effort. I got the vibe from you from the get-go - you're obsessed with yourself and brush every post for any clue that can be used to blow your lid because someone else dares talk to you in anything else than the One Perfect Way which they're expected to know and convey over the Internet.
Rest assured that everyone you think likes you in real life resents having to deal with you. Fuck, you're high-maintenance.

>>49295802
>Liking old things is bad
I'm not even the '3e autist' but that's just plain silly.

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>>49284448
How hard do you think it is to find troll-sized foci? Niche of a niche market, even for popular traditions. Must be a pain in the ass to find people who make things that actually fit comfortably in your hand that aren't custom orders. Nobody wants a magic bracelet with a bunch of extra spacers shoved in.

>>49295950
>Liking old things is bad
chummer, there's a difference between "I like the old editions" and "ALL the new games are shit and ALL people who play them are bad players"

>>49295938
>doubling down this hard
>being this much of a whiny cunt

>>49296027
Exactly. One doesn't require arguments and the other does. There's nothing precluding either from being true.
In all honesty, I don't think that 4/5e players are all bad - but I do think that those two games in specific are shit for a lot of reasons which I've already explained plenty well, and that they're a suboptimal choice for new players because of the choices and approaches to roleplaying that they encourage.

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>>49296017
100% of my foci are tattoos.

I don't imagine many mages' foci are anything BUT custom jobs.

It would definitely be a bitch, though, to pry a magic ring off of an enemy caster only to depressingly realize there's no chance in hell that you'll be able to fit it on your finger, though. I'd Frodo that shit, personally.

>>49296027
Not all the new edition's players are bad, but I do think the new editions are certainly lacking in areas where the old editions did okay in (I'm not exactly going to claim that Shadowrun ever did cyberware all too well or made magic not far better than tech).

Really 2E is where it's at, with the Street Samurai Catalog and Shadowtech.

>>49296070
You're confusing being genuinely mad and shitposting.
I've done this quite a lot, and this is proof I've finally managed to nail the ultimate mad.
Believe me or not, but I've been getting this done in complete and utter calm while handling a Roll20 game with my group at the same time. The assurance that someone on the other side of the world is now furiously trying to convince themselves that I'm the one who's mad and they're completely Zen is what I post on imageboards for.

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>>49295938
>You're reading too much into people
>I got the vibe from you from the get-go
Irony.

>>49296174
I was right, he was wrong.
Does the definition of "too" evade you?

>>49296121
>Shadowtech
You're that guy who keeps shilling mycoprotein, aren't you? The one who doesn't realize that Shadowtech hasn't been relevant for two decades now?

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>>49296113
>I don't imagine many mages' foci are anything BUT custom jobs.

Magical supply outlets like Manadyne explicitly sell foci, and it's easy enough to attune one to yourself. Hermetics in particular should have no problem dropping by the store and grabbing a sustaining focus.

I do like the idea of a troll shaman wearing a necklace of foci he's taken in magical duels, though. Shit's metal af.

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>>49296196

>>49296199
Ah, yes, I suppose I should just accept that Shadowrun has progressively gotten lower and lower tech.

>>49296220
>I do like the idea of a troll shaman wearing a necklace of foci he's taken in magical duels, though. Shit's metal af.
Yeah. When shit's the wrong size for you, just put it on a chain. It's not like you have to wear/hold a focus in the intended manner for it to work. Just keep it on your person in some way.

>>49296199
>Shadowtech hasn't been relevant for two decades now?
so has 3e

>>49296255
>so has 3e
Yes, and? 3e's primarily for nostalgic greybeards and the type of hipsters who collect vinyl records, at this point.

>>49296236
>I suppose I should just accept that Shadowrun has progressively gotten lower and lower tech.
You should have accepted it over a decade ago, yes.

>>49296284
>Le old peeple r so behind on le times xD

>>49296235
Meme images: for when you're so sure you've lost that you can't even bring yourself to raise your voice.

>>49294795
Shut up, Oersted.

>>49296341
Not all old people.

Just, specifically, you - clutching a von that hasn't been relevant for two decades to your chest and hyperventilating every time someone reminds you that it hasn't been relevant for literally the majority of Shadowrun's lifetime.

>>49296581
So why don't they just reboot the series then, if you, the voice of god, deem all things pre-2005 to be worthless? It would get rid of all those pesky things like continuity they have to worry about (Not like they do anyways).

>>49295395
>I even tried to be polite, but I guess that's wasted here.
..you.. you do know you're on 4chan, right? I mean, being polite is great and all, but expecting it to be appreciated, reciprocated, or somehow validated.. well, you're in the wrong place, omae.

>>49296635
I know perfectly well. It's because I shitpost as a matter of fact, and once in a while I prefer to not start a fight when I'm trying to do something else.
On top of that, the best way to make someone else look like a retard is to wait for them to attack you, especially if they then claim that you attacked them.

>>49296666
Maybe, but following up on it is also a great way to make yourself look like a retard too. Nobody wins, because bitch-flinging on the internets is a winnerless war.

>>49296689
Who said that I was trying to avoid making myself look like a retard?
There is a way to win, and I say that as a resident shitposter who hung around for one and a half years and had image macros made of him. That way is to make everyone else think you're retarded but still have them helpless to resist replying to everything you spout.

>>49296763
Since you seem like an experienced shitposter I want to ask you a question, a little, tiny, absolutely honest question:
Why do you shitpost?
Because no matter what I do, I can't imagine why someone would go and shitpost
This is not meant as an attack, I simply do not get it.

>>49296889
Stress relief, I think.
Part of daily life is taking shit from people and having to be polite, and when combined with a generally pretty stressy life where I don't get to talk a lot to people and generally have to nod, smile and listen when I do, once in a while I just need to bait.
I don't fuck with people who haven't acted like retards - normally, I just throw out something casual but not insulting, and then if someone replies to that in a retarded way, I bite on. It's great fun, and it's not like a little bit of self-awareness ever made 4chan worse.

So I created a technomancer with cyberwear, and now in Chummer 5 there's no submersion or complex forms/sprites tab.

Is this a bug or something?

>>49296626
Because unlike you, I don't have a problem with the state of the current game, nor the quiet little retcons of the past three editions. You're the nostalgic faggot longing for shadowrun to be something it could have been, or was once, but is not.

>>49296975
have you saved in career mode? Because normally you can only initiate/submerge after CharGen
>>49296962
>I don't get to talk a lot to people and generally have to nod, smile and listen when I do
>taking shit from people and having to be polite
that's
pretty sad actually

>>49296983
Did retro cars disappear or stop becoming relevant because newer cars were made?
Did analog cameras become meaningless because digital ones were invented?
Did synthetic fabrics entirely replace natural ones?
Did fake potted plants replace all real ones?
Just because something is a newer and possibly more convenient alternative to something older doesn't mean it's always better. There's a difference between an inarguable upgrade and a newer version of an old thing, and in the latter case, the old version still has its own virtues.
Would you refuse to use a computer because a newer model had been put out, no matter how good it was or how bad the new model was? Just like most people wouldn't do that and can still recognize an old but good product, there are people who still play older Shadowrun editions because they're simply different but equally valid games.
>>49297063
Welcome to life.

>>49296983
>>49297077

Is it weird that this is making me nostalgic for my first edition war?

The fact that I like 4e seems to put me in a pretty significant Shadowrun minority,

>>49297077
>stop becoming relevant because newer cars
>analog cameras become meaningless
Pretty much, yeah. A slim minority of nostalgic faggots still use them, but they're basically irrelevant and meaningless outside of an extremely niche hobbyist set.

The same as 2e.

They still exist, but are basically relegated to irrelevant obscurity, with a minority of obnoxious faggots who absolutely refuse to let go of the past.

Faggots like you.

>>49296983
>quiet little retcons
The retcons are about as quiet as a 5000lb bomb

>>49297187
>Pretty much, yeah. A slim minority of nostalgic faggots still use them, but they're basically irrelevant and meaningless outside of an extremely niche hobbyist set.
Eat shit, my car from the 1980s performs just as well as anything from the 2010s, nixing the GPS (Which I really should get installed).

>>49297241
Out of curiosity, where do you live?

>>49297305
US of A. Why do you care?

>>49297322
Wondering how your car lasts. I live in Ontario, and every year the salt eats away at the underside of every vehicle. Unless it's a second car that sits in a garage for half the year, nothing older than mid-90's is still on the road without serious work and replacement parts.

>>49297364
That's odd. My car from the late 80s works perfectly, and always has, with minimal maintenance on my part.

>>49297392
>>49297364

I'm in Alaska, plenty on snow and salt to screw up cars, and I know more than a couple of dudes who drive Mustangs that've been rolling since the late 60's with minimal maintenance.

>>49297454
The automotive industry has, over the decades, moved from vehicles that will come out of a crash good to run for fifty more years (but hope you were lucky enough to survive) to ones that will get you out of a crash good for fifty more years (but hope you were lucky enough to have it survive). To be a little glib.

>>49297496
Reminds me of this song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hoI1Y4MlRew

>>49297496
To put it less poetically, old cars were built to last, but you'd fucking die if you got into a wreck with them.

New cars are built to, above all else, keep you from killing you and your entire family if you get into a bad crash, but as a result are also much easier to break.

>>49297822
Or to put it even LESS poetically
In a car crash either you or your car dies. Which do you prefer.

>>49297822
And since injuries from damaged or caved-in parts are a common cause of death in car crashes, there's also a much larger gap between survival and certain death. If the airbag works right, the seatbelt works right, the emergency brakes work right and everything has been fixed recently, you'll survive with nearly no injuries - but if enough of those things fuck up, you'll be crushed and impaled by caved-in roofs, snapped seats and God knows what else.
Meanwhile, in an older car you'd rarely get off scot-free, since there's either no real safety measures or they're half-assed and outdated - but the car at least won't collapse on you if you manage to not die from the whiplash or banging your head into the dashboard.

>>49297943
I could just be thinking idealistically, but I'm also pretty sure people were a lot less fucking reckless about driving back in the olden days too, given the whole 'guarantee of death if you fuck around' deal. In typical fashion, the more safety nets we put up, the more people start taking stupid risks because they figure 'the airbag will save my dumb ass'.

>>49297496
Also why build a car that lasts for 50 years, when you can build a car that lasts for 10 years and sell 5 times more of them

Possibly a really stupid question, but:

Would it be possible to use shadowrun's mechanics to run a Starcraft game?

>>49297943

So... why not just take an old car, and put the modern safety features in it? That way both you and the car come away in a decent condition.

>>49297982
Furniture's gone that path too, with IKEA and shit.

Why by one of those nice, regal-looking comfy sofas that will last a lifetime, when you can get a shitty 'modern art' pillowless sofa that traps your testicles in its holes and will fall apart in four or five years.

>>49297978
Have you watched the news within the last ten years?
You're completely and utterly right, and I'd like to see the person who doesn't take that as the self-evident truth.
I suspect that those who don't are the ones that trust in the airbag.
>>49298006
Because the car needs to break, or the corporations won't manage to make them obsolete in time for the spiffy new model. Cars used to be a thing that lasted for most of your life and that you could pass down to your kids - now they're something you buy anew every five years.

>>49298006
What do you think car nuts with the actual skill and knowledge when it comes to that type of thing do?

And in Shadowrun terms: What do you think houserules are?

>>49297998
>shadowrun's mechanics
>to run a Starcraft game
why? the SR system is only good for one thing: SR
and often not even for that

>>49297998

No idea. I do know 4e takes to Mass Effect like a fish to damn water with shockingly minimal adjustments.

>>49298006

Some modern safety measure like airbags and seatbelts can be added easily. things like crumple zones are pretty intrinsic to the cars design, and therefore almost impossible to add. It's a compromise in any direction, after a certain point.

>>49298023
I think it makes a big difference who licenses it and makes it.
IKEA here in Scandinavia is just a good, simple and straightforward brand - cheap, sturdy, functional at the cost of also looking half-assed and having few extra features or real care put into it.
All the stories about IKEA being junk I've heard, I've heard from Americans.

>>49298062
I'm from Scandinavia too - when I say 'shitty' I just mean the way that it looks.

But even then, you can't tell me that even here in Scandinavia that an IKEA product is 'for life' and not 5-10 years tops.

>>49298046

Because I really want to run a good Starcraft game, with all its worldbuilding and shit intact, and shadowrun does well with the high tech equipment that marines and stuff have, and the Magic could easily be rewritten as 'Psionics' and it work too.

>>49298084
It really depends. Some of it is disposable, but there are pieces of IKEA furniture at my house that are older than me by a few years and only have a few scratches to show for it.
If it's made out of wood, it lasts. If it has a lot of screws and connecting parts, or if it has glass or fabric parts, it won't.

>>49298103
Just use GURPS

>>49297943
>injuries from damaged or caved-in parts are a common cause of death in car crashes
They aren't. Not in the grand scheme of things. There's buffer space between the outer layer of the car and the inner cabin that usually prevents that, except when you're t-boned at high speeds by really big vehicles.

The real reason why it's a bigger cause than the others is because all of the other factors are even better accounted for these days.

>>49297935
>In a car crash either you or your car dies.
But pretty much this, yes.

>>49298051
>I do know 4e takes to Mass Effect like a fish to damn water with shockingly minimal adjustments.
5e does Mass Effect similarly well.