Best sci-fi system?

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I like traveller.

But I have also never played anything else.

That can't be all, can it?

>>49272152
What kinda scifi u want? There's almost as much variety as there is in the fantasy gaming genre

>>49272165
Lucky bastard. It's impossible to find a group for it that plays in a GMT+1 friendly time frame.

Eclipse Phase.

>>49272322
Back to tumblr with you.

>>49272518

what

>>49272152
GURPS.

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>>49272152
Traveller is a solid choice if you're into old school rpg's.

People who suggest GURPS are mostly meming, altough it always is a decent alternative if you're already familiar with it.

But since you're question was made up of 3 words I'm gonna go on a limb and say you are new to the hobby.

Stars Without Number is a free sci-fi rpg that is a little less complicated than Traveller.

>>49272518

The genderfluid part of Eclipse phase is a logical consequence of a transhuman setting where the personality can change bodies constantly, it doesn't have anything to do with feminism.

>>49272152

I am looking for some realistic sc-fi system where I can discharge my autistic needs.

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>>49272152
I really enjoy Fragged Empire, but it too is all I have played.

>>49272518

Spot the biocon.

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>>49272518

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>>49272321
I'm interested, but my english accent is atrocious.

>>49273075
Albedo is as hard as it gets. It got a furry paintjob, but yiffing is almost non-existant. It got very interesting mechanics an is a pretty good tactical combat game. It can rapidly turn into PTSD simulator due to the game system.

Got one excellent module where you have to survive in a wrecked spaceship, with enphasis on clash between people, too.

>>49272152
Lasers and Feelings.

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>>49273559
>Albedo
>as hard as it gets

>>49273559
Find songs in English (with actual lyrics and good pronounciation, like Queen) you like and try singing along silently, focusing on mouthing the words correctly. Once that works without effort, add voice. 20 minutes practice every day a month and your pronounciation should improve (assuming you're trying to mimic the singer and not repeating your mistakes). I had a student once who actually followed my advice (I taught English to a few people) and this technique helped her a lot.

>>49272152
I like Diaspora, but many folks do not like narrative-roleplaying.

>>49273559
HA

is that the system with art by jay naylor

>>49273758
Wouldn't it be easier to try and mimic somebody famous through watching interviews rather than have to deal with singing?

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>>49272152
My homebrew

>>49273758
Thanks, will try it.

>>49273764
Don't think so, it's based on a comic by Steve Gallacci, I think he did most of the art, if not all.

>>49273855
What's the difference between your homebrew and regular Diaspora?

>>49273855
Interesting. Having skimmed it, I see little different from Diaspora. What was your motivation behind making it?

Two questions of any sci-fi systems being mentioned:
- Does it have Flamethrowers ?
- If yes, is there enough information to know if the flamethrowers will work in vacuum ?


I ask because a surprising number of systems are written by people who never think of that question. Which means they don't provide enough question to answer it.

I don't care if the flamethrowers work in a vacuum or not. Only that there is enough information to make the answer clear to everyone.

>>49272152
I have high hopes for the upcoming 3.PF in SPAAAAACE! called Starfinder.

>>49273879
I'd imagine the lack of pressure would cause the flammable material being shot out of the flamethrower to dissipate to the point where the flames can no longer sustain themselves and get snuffed out.

>>49273881
Oh god no. Sci-fi is the only refuge against D&D players, I am not excited.

>>49273894

But a flamethrower works with dense liquids that stick to surfaces and as "greek fire" does, doesn't require oxygen in their reaction to burn.

>>49273903
But I doubt the liquid stays a liquid when ignited out of the nozzle. Any form of gas is going to fuck off into space.

>>49273868
>>49273878
Updating Diaspora to Fate Core and tweaking Fate to be the way I like, namely less powerful PCs and a more sensible level up mechanic.

>>49273909
Doubt won't protect you from superheated fire liquid

>>49273903
>>49273909
Oh wait hang on I just realized, there is a liquid that could work as a flamethrower liquid, but... uh... well, letting a human anywhere near it would be the dumbest mistake possible.

A hydrazine flamethrower could work. God help you if you're the poor sap that has to operate it.

>>49273920
Oh yeah and its about 250 pages shorter

>>49273922
Isn't hydrazine rocket fuel ?

Which means that:
- It would be easily available. Because people use it to fuel their ships.
- Some people would know how to handle it. Because they work with the ships engines.

>>49273953
Anon, it's x-treeeeemly toxic and corrosive, you need fancy big reinforced hazmat suits to handle that kind of stuff.

>>49273922
Here's the fluff on the flamethrowers in Myriad Song:

>The hypergolic guns mix a few drops of rocket fuel into the firing chamber, then combine it with accelerant to ignite it, and a fraction of a second later, the resulting jet of fire is vented towards the targets. These guns are extremely expensive because of the material involved, and even then, use of the weapon slowly burns out the lining and the mechanism.

>>49273971
What about a fully sealed, armoured, spacesuit ?

>>49273920
Superheated fire liquid would make more sense than an attempt at a flamethrower in space.

Losing your liquid in the form of having fire (hot gas) may cause the liquid itself to rapidly cool in the form of ablative cooling from the loss of mass given by the gas spreading.

If you want something REALLY deadly you would want to have something that stays a liquid even when it's stupidly hot. If you can somehow heat tungsten to a hot enough point where it becomes a liquid you'll basically have a tungsten jizz cannon that can melt through ship hulls like a knife through butter.


>>49273953
Hydrazine is incredibly deadly, and wants to kill you the instant you know of its existence. In Europa Report an astronaut gets a tiny amount of hydrazine on his suit, and everyone freaks the fuck out because if he enters the airlock everyone inside of the ship could die:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7Xs-iPgm_k&ab_channel=MagnoliaPictures&MagnetReleasing

>>49273985
I think it's made to protect you from the vacuum of space, not from corrosive liquids.

>>49273989
Heating the atmosphere that much in a closed system (e.g. a spaceship) would be pretty devastating for people and electronics. If you had much better insulation or were otherwise protected (send in drones) it'd be a great boarding weapon.

The tech and power needed to make it an effective anti-ship weapon could probably be better used just making a better laser/railgun/missile though.

>Europa Report
Pretty good movie.

>>49274045
Anon did say armoured, so that's already atypical of space suits unless you want to say they're armored against vacuum. That would be redundant with it being a space suit at all. Sounds like he meant some kind of sci-fi gear, and not the typical sexy scifi gear that looks like it was designed by a fetishist. Such a suit could very well be designed to resist corrosives. As for shipboard contamination, well, that would depend on the level of technology involved. Maybe they'd know how to neutralize it. Maybe they have duct tape 2.0 which can resist even the fires of the sun itself. No frigging clue.

It depends on the setting and the grace (or technical ignorance on the subject) of the GM.

>>49274281
>>49274281
Personally liked it alot better than Interstellar or Gravity. Much less stupid bullshit even if it didn't look anywhere near as pretty

>>49274338
I'm into diamond hard sci-fi, but I still liked Interstellar because it was pretty.

>>49273902

>not appreciating several systems in differing genres for what they are

no true grog...

>>49272152
For what? Hyperion Cantos, Dune, Star Wars, Farscape, and Neuromancer are all SF.

>>49274350
A true grog would be playing Traveller. Pathfinder is not for grogs it's for 3eaboos.

>>49274448
But which Traveller?

>>49274461
Classic. The one that came out in the 70s.

>>49274417
THE best scifi. So what's the best system for the best scifi?

The best scifi is hard scifi, as other forms are fantasy hybrids. Hard scifi is thus more scifi, and a thing is better at being itself.

Neuromancer > Hyperion > Farscape > Dune > SW

>>49274347
Seen The Expanse?

>>49274486
Yeah, and I couldn't stand how pointlessly grim it wanted to be. I couldn't make it through the first episode because it felt like it was trying REALLY hard to be Game of Thrones in space.

It's the only accurate sci-fi thing that I won't watch, and it's painful for me to be the only one not liking it.

>>49274579
Ah, that's too bad for you. I try not to consume media hypotextually.

>>49274473
>The best scifi is hard scifi, as other forms are fantasy hybrids.
That just means it's the purest, and purest does not always mean best.

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I like traveller. The combat system is extremely deadly if you're not wearing super awesome armor so that may surprise people, but there's a lot more to do than fighting and the attention to detail is just enough to make me happy without boring me. The chargen is a lot of fun too especially for >tfw nogroup.
Bought pic related from a flea market for laughs and it was like an autistic version of traveller with 3d space maps instead of the hexagon system and a lot more gear.

>>49274616
Well now that you dismissed my dislike of the show I guess I have to elaborate.

I like hard sci-fi, but the premise of the show had so many elements that were only there to create dramatic tension.

>all the poor belters, water is more valuable than gold
Why are there no probes doing any of this? Humans are ill equipped for space, which is why 90% of the work in a hard sci-fi setting would be done by probes. In addition, water is hydrogen and oxygen. We need oxygen just to exist, and hydrogen is needed just to make most ship designs run.

>belters even being a thing
The asteroid belt is far more sparse than you would think. It would make far more sense to mine Phobos, Deimos, Mars, The Moon, Mercury, Venus, and near Earth asteroids. Any kind of asteroid belt mining would be far better suited for probe work as probes can be built for maximum mining efficiency. We already know of an asteroid that's pretty close to Earth that's FILLED with platinum.

>>49274461
>>49274467
He's not wrong but all travellers are good even if they are not equal. Moongoose traveller is still awesome compared to your usual starwars/trekD20

>>49274779
Oh also, I should add:

>general corruption still being a thing 200 years into the future
If humanity does not get better as a whole it will kill itself before that time hits. We discover more and more things to kill ourselves with, but we also discover more reasons not to kill ourselves. If you go back 200 years the average person would be far more of an asshole than now, and 200 years into the future, if the human race survives, would look back at us as assholes.

That's the reason why I think the cyberpunk influences in The Expanse are stupid, especially when you try and sell the most plausible scenario possible.

>>49274779
>which is why 90% of the work in a hard sci-fi setting would be done by probes
What kind of diamond hard sci-fi do you read that nobody ever leaves the Earth and everything is done via remote probes and drones?

>>49274779
I'm not dismissing your dislike, you have an opinion, I have an opinion, I learned a long time ago there's no point in arguing over opinions.

>>49274946
NASA white papers

>>49274971
That's a terrible opinion

>>49274946
It's not that people don't leave Earth, it's that most of the work is done by probes and drones because that's way more efficient. Also:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Walk_in_the_Sun_(short_story)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Crossing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_trilogy

>>49273067

Give me a fucking break. Just go on one of their general threads and you'll see constant Tumblr tier whining and ideological cant.

GURPS Transhuman Space does everything better. Hard sci fi. No psychic magic. All the philosophical and ethical issues of transhumanism, but no preachy left-wing grimderp. Every major ideology represented- represented FAIRLY- and brand new ones that make sense in the context of the game. Some supplements are written by real life big names in the Transhumanist movement. And the game is just plain FUN. Did I mention no grimderp?

Even if you hate GURPS, this is pretty much the ideal setting for a near future hard sci fi. And with GURPS's biggest strength being tactical oper8ing and flexibility, you have the perfect match.

>>49275017
Er wait I didn't mean to include that last one. I only wanted to include Mars Crossing and A Walk In The Sun

>>49274997
>that's a terrible opinion
In your opinion.

>>49275017
>>49275116
>Mars Trilogy
That's a particularly good example of exploring speculative technology's affect on humans at both the personal and societal level. Alas most writers aren't that creative nor are audience interested in so niche a topic.
"Communism, but this time it works" was a bit of a cop out. Energy-based economy is beautiful though.

Sax best boy.

>>49275105

While Transhuman Space is my favorite, also consider Traveller. It's a "good old fashioned future" and was a partial inspiration for Firefly. Star Wars and Rogue Trader are also good but you probably already know if you want to play one of those.

If you're looking for hard sci fi and/or transhumanism, no other game comes even close to Transhuman Space.

>>49275105
>Give me a fucking break. Just go on one of their general threads and you'll see constant Tumblr tier whining and ideological cant.


But the main theme of those thread is about how the devs mistreat the jovians as simple nazi baddies and the planetary consortium is the necesary evil in the setting while the anarkiddies are just everywhere being perfect.

>>49275105
>>49275182
Whenever I read GURPS sourcebooks they always seem like such a scattershot of ideas that they leave up to you to stitch together and play. Seems like good inspiration but a lot of work to run as a ruleset.

How do GURPS games usually go? The players just narrate whatever and its up to the GM to make rulings? Or does the GM compile a definitive ruleset out of all the OPTIONALS in the books and expects players to be familiar with it?

>>49275151
>>49274946
Two things that I wish I saw more in science fiction though would be:

1.Sci-fi authors getting their heads out of their ass about Mars and choosing Venus as the superior planet to colonize.
>1atm pressure available at 45km in the air
>air is a lifting gas
>rockoons are entirely viable to make liftoffs trivial
>0.89g (at 45km in the air) compared to 0.3g (at the surface)
>radiation protection
>endless energy generation from all that heat and sunlight
>easier to get to
>more scientifically interesting than mars (Venus fucking spins backwards)

In fact I'd think it would be interesting to write a story based around most colonists going to Venus and then a Martian old guard getting upset about their funding starting to dry up, ultimately leading to tense political situations between Martians and Venutians making Earth a FIERCE economic battleground when it comes to each party trying to secure continued colonists and supplies.

2.More emphasis on asteroid colonies, less emphasis on space stations and larger moons, and spinning asteroids, even a spinning Deimos. We can survive on various smaller bodies by spinning them and using centrifugal force to provide close to 1g.

>>49275358
Stop shilling Venus, it ain't happening.

>>49275105

Yeah but like... it's conceptually boring. The political scene is just the 90's projected 100 years into the future. They have mind-copying technologies but they're conveniently flawed or illegal so nobody needs to care about the consequences of the technology. Everywhere that isn't Earth is pretty sparse. There's not that much conflict built into the setting.

>>49275321
>Or does the GM compile a definitive ruleset out of all the OPTIONALS in the books and expects players to be familiar with it?
This one normally, though it's usually more along the lines of 'Basic Set/Lite + XYZ' than 'the entire body of GURPS supplements, but we're not using XYZ'.

>>49275358
>Sulfuric acid rainclouds
>Hotter than mercury
>Overwhelming atmospheric pressure
>Magnetic field too weak to ward cosmic radiation
Even with terraformation and regulation of the atmosphere, the last one kills us outside of radiation shielded bases.
It's easier to stick troglodite bases on mars without worrying about atmosphere.

>>49275501
Anon, he's talking about aerostats. At 50km or so, atmospheric pressure on Venus is about 1atm, and temperature goes from 20 to 70°C or so, IIRC.
Which wouldn't dodge the problem of sulfuric acid clouds or magnetic field, ofc.
Mars is just better and easier.

>>49275501
Well you stay above the first three on Venus. Cloud cities, and the like.

>>49275321

That's intentional - they're intended primarily as a toolbox for GM's and players, giving a broad swathe of options and generally an overview of the genre and its appropriate setting lenses.

For a game, the GM and players sets what's being used (which isn't much work), tech level, and gets everyone on the same page for the themes of the campaign. It's not much work.

Players don't have to be familiar with anything but what's on their sheet.

If you're playing in a setting like Transhuman Space or Dungeon Fantasy, then all the work of what options to use is already done.

>>49275437
>Yeah but like... it's conceptually boring. The political scene is just the 90's projected 100 years into the future. They have mind-copying technologies but they're conveniently flawed or illegal so nobody needs to care about the consequences of the technology. Everywhere that isn't Earth is pretty sparse. There's not that much conflict built into the setting.

The mind-copying techniques are being worked on, and they *still* see intense use - to the point that they've been incorporated into funeral rites as a way to preserve an ancestor's living ghost. AI and Ghosts have no rights across most of the solar system, including many of the traditional good-guy nations.

Bioroid rights are causing social disruption across the solar system. There's plenty of conflict, it just doesn't rely on Good vs Evil vs Mythos.

THS is in the middle of huge social shifts already, but right on the cusp of everything kicking off.

>>49275548
There are still sulfuric acid clouds at the proposed altitude for colonization of Venus, m8.

>>49275532
like you said there's still obious problems
>>49275548
and that's not to account, being high in the atmosphere is getting torn apart by violent winds.
>>49275563
violent winds carrying acid clouds

>>49275552
>If you're playing in a setting like Transhuman Space or Dungeon Fantasy, then all the work of what options to use is already done.

Money quote right here. Too many options is a valid critique of GURPS, but prebuilt settings like THS do this all for you.

>>49275017
Any links for these stories ? My google-fu is really weak today

>>49276418
#bookz

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>tfw nobody plays fading suns anymore

>>49276505
So, it's fading?

>>49275594
>>49275563
>>49275501

>acid
Sulfuric acid is countered with teflon and various other forms of plastics that laugh at sulfuric acid. You'd need to wear a thick spacesuit on Mars just to survive. On Venus the suit can be skintight, and only has to be acid resistant.

>wind
The winds are fairly uniform and actually helpful for allowing you to keep a proper day and night cycle as they move you from one end of the planet all the way around. The reinforcement needed for the wind is not that much of a problem compared to having to design a pressure vessel like you would on Mars.

>radiation
Venus actually has an induced magnetosphere just because of how thick its atmosphere is. There's enough radiation shielding just from the atmosphere itself that your chances of getting cancer are most likely marginally higher than on Earth. On Mars your chances of getting cancer are SIGNIFICANTLY higher. But, then again on Mars you couldn't go outside without a spacesuit anyways.

All of my sources come from NASA and NASA scientists:

http://arc.aiaa.org/doi/abs/10.2514/6.2015-4612
http://arc.aiaa.org/doi/abs/10.2514/6.2015-4545

https://youtu.be/xqQB0WqOahc (scientist involved in the project to test the feasibility of a Venus mission)

In addition here are some extra facts about Venus that make it ideal that I didn't mention before:

>Because of Venus's thick as fuck atmosphere and size, Venus would be an ideal candidate for some fantastic fuel saving through aerocapture. Mars is much harder to perform an aerocapture on: http://solarsystem.nasa.gov/docs/Concepts_Munk_Spilker.pdf

>Due to how orbital mechanics work, a Hohmann Transfer from Venus to the asteroid belt would take less time than a Hohmann Transfer from Mars to the asteroid belt (though this one is not from a scientist the creator of this website is extremely dedicated to studying orbital mechanics):
http://clowder.net/hop/railroad/VJ.htm
http://clowder.net/hop/railroad/MaJ.htm

>>49276584
>There's enough radiation shielding just from the atmosphere
Didn't you propose an hour ago that people live above 99% of said atmosphere?

>>49276505
All I know about it is that it's space feudalism with magic bits. Can you say more about it?

>>49276627
You misunderstood just how thick and high the atmosphere on Venus goes. On Venus, sea level is 50~km above the ground. That means there's enough atmosphere standing between you and cosmic rays as there is at sea level on EARTH.

At 50km you still have nearly 20 more kilometers of atmosphere above you before you start to close in on the Armstrong Limit.

On Earth, at sea level, the Armstrong Limit is reached at 19km above you.

>>49276459
Thanks dude

>>49272152
My vote goes to Stars Without Number. I've been running a campaign for about six months so far and both the players and myself really enjoy it. Can't say enough good things about it.

>>49276926
>Can't say enough good things about it.
You've said 0 good things about it, though.

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>>49276947

>>49276978
"It's fun for me and my friends" doesn't really help convince people to give it a try, you know.
How about them good things, then?

>>49276584
Oh and one last thing about wind speeds. Hurricane force winds are not that hard to design for: http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.195.172&rep=rep1&type=pdf

When you think hurricane force winds you think of a plane on Earth trying to fly through a hurricane and then everyone on board dying because of it. But, traditional heavier than air aircraft would not be necessary on Venus and far more reinforcement can be used making air travel safer due to both the fact that air is a lifting gas, and at 50km gravity is only at 0.89g.

>>49277020
Not even that guy, never played Stars Without Number, but I gotta post the epic eye-roll gif when someone intentionally misinterprets a well-known and understood idiom on purpose just to be a wise-ass. You could have just said: "What do you like about it?" or "Tell me more." But no. You couldn't do that. And now you're paying the price.

>>49277184
I'm not paying anything though.

Vanguard Free RPG

>>49275105
I highly doubt any rpg does hard sci-fi well. The equalities that make something hard sci-fi do not lend themselves towards making a good game.

>>49277525
You would be wrong:
https://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/15/15778.phtml

>>49275358
.89G is more of a problem than an advantage. Yeah, it might be more comfortable for gumans, but it hugely inflates the cost of orbital landing/takeoff. Not to mention the atmosphere. And don't try to tell me we'll use reusable shuttles or scramjets or some shit like that.

>>49278091
No.

Balloons for takeoff, and aerocapture for orbital insertion.

Hydrogen is twice as effective on Venus just because of the nature of displacing Carbon Dioxide. Smaller envelope size needed also leads to more effective balloon loads as well, and that's not even counting the 0.89g.

Wow. A lot more responses over night.
No, I am not new. I am just curious what systems other people like. GURPS I am more than familiar with.
You`ve given me many systems that I will have to check out. I am leaning towards GURPS at the moment because of the freedom I have to make races and everything else. Plus I know it the best.
But that isn't ever a reason to pick a system. I was thinking of making a universe of my own where my friends start from first contact and build up, through different campaigns, to space exploration, meeting alien races, etc.
Each time they uncover something new, they open up that race/area to be used in future games.
The other important thing in a good sci-fi system for me is ship combat. Which systems are good for that?

>>49278273
Traveller.

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>>49277204

PAY IT!

>>49278273
GURPS Traveller.

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>>49278296

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>>49278296

I prefer GURPS Transhuman space personally, since it's a pretty hard sci-fi setting, if you get my drift.

What about mech combat?

>>49275501

>Live on Mars
>dat natty martian kalcium deficit
>take my 100% martian bred son out for a walk (we try to get regular walks to help his 0.39g posture)
>Miss the solar flare warnings
>Die to radiation because you weren't huddling in your snowman safeplace

wooooow

>>49273084
I want to play / run that so bad.

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>>49277204

>>49278561
What do you like about it?

>>49278211
>>49278091
Also to reiterate on this before anyone thinks I'm crazy for suggesting balloons:

In the Landis slides he states that a 400 meter envelope of air would lift the Empire State Building, weighing in at around 331,000,000 kg.

The second and third stages of the heaviest rocket ever built, the Saturn V, weigh in at about 619200 kg.

If we take 619200 divide that by 331,000,000 we get 0.00187069 * 100 to get the percentage, and the second and third stages end up weighing 0.187069 percent the weight of the Empire State Building.

400 * 0.187069 = 74

It would take roughly a 74 meter envelope of FUCKING AIR to lift the second and third stages of the Saturn V on Venus. You could dramatically decrease the envelope size needed by filling the balloon with hydrogen or helium as well.

FUCKING
AIR

And as for materials that could withstand lifting something that heavy we already have Zylon, which is in use in various industries, and can lift that weight no problem.

One of the big things I wanted from the sci-fi system is the freedom to tweak with the universe to make it my own. Like making my own alien races. Or history.

I've played the 40k RPGs, but they don't seem like the system itself would lend well to a different setting.

>>49278771
A lot of things.

It has familiar tropes, such as the Elf v Dwarf conflict that is in so many settings. But it isn't as hidebound, the book itself gives room for people to change that.

The idea that the game takes place a hundred or so years after a multi-planet apocalypse scale war where the ability to travel between worlds is just being rediscovered is awesome to me. Anything and everything is on the table. If the party wants to explore, they can do that. Fight, they can do that. Get involved in heavy political stuff, they can do that. Or a mix of any of the above.

I find the species compelling too. All of them for their own reasons.

>Legion
Space Apes with xboxhueg guns. Great concept on its face, one that only gets better as you get deeper. They're at best a partially finish species, barely viable. Engineered for only war, but with enough mental facilities they can do other things; but it is very difficult for them. Anything other than war does not come easily. So much so that being a soldier is not glorified in their culture, instead being a farmer or mother. And don't get me started on their society.

>Kaltoran
Cat people who are genius tier mechanics and engineers with genetic memories. Their history is one of pain and literal cannibalism, and that echoes throughout everything they do because of their genetic memories. History for them is very much alive and well, beyond what I can even imagine. However, they're playful as well. Willing to try new things, family focused.

>The Corporation
The Not!Humans of the setting. But therein lies the rub. They were abandoned by their creators because they weren't as good as their creators wanted them to be. In light of or in spite of that, the grow and create. They're also the ones that bring the rest of the galaxy together, the middle ground. They're the grout that holds the pieces of the galaxy together. Average, unremarkable, non-descript but none of that matters.

>>con't

>>49278771
>>49278945

>the Nephilim
Much like the Legion, in some respects. Genetically engineered species designed to do nothing but fight, kill, and die. But unlike the Legion they are a complete species, fully viable. Yet, they're a complete aberration of nature. Monsters. But after their creator left, they began to augment themselves extensively, such that here are three subspecies. The PCs that are Nephilim are vat-grown with knowledge pushed into their heads along side a fake personality to give that knowledge context. They're the thing that goes bump in the night to the rest of the galaxy, especially the Legion and Kaltorans.

Above all of the species you can play as, everyone is dealing with the fact they're more or less toys that were thrown away to various degrees. Humanity is long dead, the Ubermenchen that replaced them created created their own doom which then eventually nearly destroyed the galaxy. And now, the broken pieces try to make something of worth.

You can focus the game on the past, but I have the distinct impression from the book that it is more about the future than anything. Even the racial prejudices are trying to be overcame for the benefit of all. Its about hope in a setting that was recently smashed to pieces and burned. Noble Dark at its best.

Fragged Empire seems exceedingly bland on the surface. But if you scratch the surface it becomes infinity more complex and interesting.

Plus, I like Space Apes with Big Guns. The idea makes me smile.

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>>49279101
Space apes with big guns, ey?

>>49279158
wtf is that?

I love everything about Stars Without Number
except the fucking mechanics, god damn it

>>49279163
Winston, from Overwatch. He was born on the moon and left when the other SPACE APES decided they didn't like being research subjects

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>>49279163
Winston Harambe's Ascended form, from Overwatch. He's a big, super-intelligent ape that jumps around with a tesla gun and doesn't afraid of anything.

>>49279186
>>49279191
Ah, that's why I don't know what it is.

Don't play that memetastic game.

>>49278905
Err, sorry, lack of sleep. I meant to use 400 * 0.00187069

0.748 meter envelope.

But in this instance we can't wrap the envelope around the rocket like we can in the Empire State Building example, but a 75 meter balloon should be enough.

>>49274767
It's Rolemaster in Space. Can be fun. Didn't play it much though

So what are the hardest sci-fi games?

>>49279340
Orbital and Twilight 2000

>>49279356
>Twilight 2000
>The setting where canonically France becomes the world superpower and rules 1/3 of human space

>>49279392
>mfw the reason is that in a game they had, the guy playing France did super well.
Top kek.

>>49279439
>The dice gods are butthurt Bonapartists confirmed

>>49279392
>Modern Earth
>The setting where canonically the crazy religious extremists sent across the world became one of the world's superpowers
I mean, stranger things have happened.

>>49279392

Why not? They could take over western Europe, because who is going to stop them? Germany?

>>49272518
I'm going to second this. Eclipse phase is really blatant with their politicizing.

>>49279475
Just goes to show God stands with the French.

>>49279486
>Germany?
Do they even have an army these days ?

>>49279554
Well, they've got a Muslim guerilla army living within the borders, buy not really a state controlled army. Unless you mean the Islamic state.

>>49279392
I think the french space program is larger and more successful than the american one at this point.

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>>49276584
more importantly, mars is boring

people don't like it to admit it but we all know it's true. it's the second most boring planet in the solar system. it's less interesting than some moons even. mars colonisation is like living in a more barren, deadly version of death valley. and not the fun kind of deadly, it's the kind where you just get cancer and die. also it's a tiny midget planet. only venus is a worthy rival of earth among the terrestrials, and lives up to the promise of life on a genuinely alien planet.

>muh olympus mons

not even the biggest mountain in the solar system.

>>49279710
I'm pretty sure ESA (which is European, btw, while IIRC plenty people and stuff are French, the budget is only 1/4th French) isn't bigger than NASA.

>>49279762
Any non-Earth planet is truly alien, m8.
Venus is deadlier than Mars, more easily.

>>49279392
Wait. I thought Twilight 2000 was all nuked-out wasteland? Or are there two different Twilight 2000s?

>>49279833
They get back from it, obviously. Or France just kinda survives from being neutral throughout it all?

>>49277525
>I highly doubt any rpg does hard sci-fi well.
Check vanguard free rpg

>>49279833
>>49279858
I'm talking about 2300, which is a sort of sequel setting taking place 300 years after Twilight, built off the Traveller system.
The devs played an in-house grand strategy game to build the history of 2000-2300, and the guy who played France did super well

>>49279833
There is a second edition, same system as the splendid dark conspiracy.

>>49279832
>I'm pretty sure ESA (which is European, btw, while IIRC plenty people and stuff are French, the budget is only 1/4th French) isn't bigger than NASA.
Except they manage to send rockets in space without blowing up.

>>49279832
No, Mars is deadlier than Venus by far. There are above ground places in Venus where you can survive with nothing but an oxygen mask. There is no above ground point on mars where going without a huge pressurized habitat or spacesuit won't kill you. And even then you could still die of radiation poisoning on Mars even with a spacesuit.

>>49280233
>nothing but an oxygen mask in sulfuric acid clouds
Sounds nice, tell me how it goes.

>>49280233

Are... are you an idiot.

Do you know what the hottest planet in solar system is?

Spoilers: Its Venus. There is no place on venus where I human could survive in any way shape or form in any kind of space suit. The pressure, the heat and the wind storms that are several hundred miles per hour, not the mention the atmosphere is fucking Acidic as hell.

You could survive on mars with a heated and insulated pressure suit. Martian spacesuits will be much slimmer then the suits we take to space now or went to the moon in.

Like really anon, did you fail basic high school science?

>>49280233
The atmospheric pressure at the planet's surface is 92 times that of Earth. Venus is by far the hottest planet in the Solar System, with a mean surface temperature of 735 K (462 °C; 863 °F), even though Mercury is closer to the Sun. Venus is shrouded by an opaque layer of highly reflective clouds of sulfuric acid, preventing its surface from being seen from space in visible light.

>>49280397
>>49280477
It's 1atm and a livable, if on the warm side, temperature at a 50km altitude.
But then :
>>49275532
>>49275594
>>49275563

>>49280512

No the winds are still insane, the atmosphere is still highly corrosive, and the lack of a magnetic field means that that high up you are going to be dead or a living tumor.

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>>49280397
Maybe he's one of those people who dream we'll one day create a giant space umbrella between Venus and the sun. Take off "enough" direct sunlight to get those greenhouse gases under control and eventually, somehow, tame the planet. As long as nothing smacks into the giant space mirror like in the seminal hard scifi epic Futurama.

>>49280643
Ah yeah, vaguely looked for that post to quote too but didn't find it.

>>49280670
desu, our best bet for Venus is waiting for nanorobots, dropping a few zillions on Venus, have them chew on the CO2 or stock it somewhere and wait a couple hundred years.

>>49275532
>Mars is just better and easier.
Fuck Mars, we have to colonize the moon first. Use the moon as a testbed for the technologies needed to create a viable habitat you can later use on Mars. Much easier and faster to get materials there and if there is a problem the possibility of help is much closer. Construction is so much easier in that gravity and for launching future space missions, including to Mars. It's also a much better location to steer asteroids for mining.

>>49280735
Oh sure, our best bet is greygooing Venus. That's obviously the safest and sanest course of action.

You must be an Eclipse Phase fan.

>>49280858

The moon and the Lagrange points are the first places we should move too.

>>49280858
Moon is the best. End of line.

>>49274892
>thinks future is all sunshine and brighness
>believes myth of constant human progress thru history
>unaware that human nature hasn't and doesn't change
We are and shall always be nothing more than mobile nervous systems selfishly looking for pleasurable stimulation while avoiding harsh stimulation.
To be sure, we won't kill ourselves; unless by accident. But we sure as hell won't 'get better as a whole'. Human nature is as constant as C.

>>49272152
My preferred system's Stars Without Number, largely because the combat's nice and lethal.

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>>49272152
d20 Future.

>>49281526
When you think about it it's actually ideal. Tidally locked so it is always facing the Earth, perfect for constant line of sight communications without having to create a satellite relay network. It's largely protected from impacts by the Earth itself. It's perfect!

Damn, now I kind of want to run a hard scifi moon colonization game. Though it sounds like it would be full of long, agonizing periods of boredom punctuated with the occasional moment of, "OH SHIT WE'RE FUCKED!"

Really the worst thing I'm aware of about the moon (beyond the physical issues of living in a low grav environment) is that moon dust is toxic to humans. You'd need to develop exposure standards and some kind of decon system.

>>49282874
Within small enough areas, you could simply have all structures linked by tunnels. If the population is large enough, do one of those Eyes of Mars style dome habitats.

Main problem is similar to the other celestial bodies in that radiation will fuck you up.

>>49279340

Transhuman Space, by a fairly long shot. The only superscience in the setting are Memetics (justified by AI analysis), a cinematically fast terraforming of Mars, and stabilised micro-blackholes being a thing (just for research, doesn't actually do anything in-setting yet). Technically the space-elevators as well, but that's pretty forgiveable.

Space vehicles respect delta-V, humans need minor tweaks to prevent zero-g problems, there isn't a single trace of magic or psychic powers, and the only robots that walk are intended for very specific niches.

>>49278499
Jovian Chronicles or Heavy Gear. Mekton too.

>>49280643
Did you not read a single post above you? The lack of the magnetic field is not a cancer risk because of the sheer volume of atmosphere on Venus that acts as radiation shielding. Your cancer risk at 50km on Venus is not significantly higher than your cancer risk at sea level on Earth.

>>49280670
No, Venus is more easily colonizable RIGHT NOW than Mars will ever be.

Sulfuric acid can be blocked entirely with a thin layer of teflon.

Wind speeds are as big of a worry as you think, there was even a NASA study about whether a thin glider would survive around 50km and the answer turned out to be "very likely".
I made plenty of posts debunking many of these points and then you continue to bring them to me, fuck you.

>>49279833
it's called traveller 2300
it's pretty fuggin hard sci-fi

>>49276947
Well ok anon, since you insist here's a list of things I like about Stars Without Number:
>OSR
>Fantastic fan made sector generation tools
>Setting and backstory is really interesting, and if you don't like it that's fine too because it's irrelevant to the game mechanics
>The three classes all play very differently and feel well balanced
>Can teach the entire system to someone who has played D&D before in about 60 seconds
>Faction turn is pretty fun for me as the DM
>PDF is free, only missing two chapters from the paid version
>Author has responded well to criticism, even going so far as to help fans remove and bolt on mechanics from other systems

Things that are kind of meh to me about the system:
>Ship combat leaves a lot to be desired
>No matter what the book may tell you, sandbox roleplaying is a lot of work for the DM
>Not a huge fan of Skills, but 2d6 is better than d20 so it kind of gets a pass from me

Overall it's a winner in my book and I think I definitely went with the right choice when deciding what sci-fi RPG to pick.

I grew up with Alternity and it's my go-to generic sci-fi game. It's kinda weird but it's very modular for a variety of sci-fi themes and settings.

>>49283069
Oh hell yeah the wind on Venus is atrocious. 200+ miles an hour. Good luck keeping your thin layer of teflon.

The image of you trying to live on your thin glider is fun, though. Since you'll only be wearing the oxygen mask you talked about you be sure to spray yourself with plenty of DuPont Multi-Use Teflon Aerosol.

>>49283815
Pray he remembers to spray with the wind instead of against it!

>>49283069
I'm actually really still curious about this. So you want to "colonize" the planet by living high up in the air even though you say you need the density of said atmosphere to protect you from radiation. Also teflon coat everything. So your space colony idea is, what, living on platforms held aloft by balloons and you take a teflon coated glider to work?

Why would you even need to do this on Venus? You can go live your Bioshock Infinite fantasy on Earth, you numbskull. It would at least be more practical and easier to sustain, plus if something goes wrong and you start losing altitude the clouds won't melt you and the wind won't blow away whatever is left. At least the dumbass giant mirror idea or nanites would allow for some hope of terraforming the planet. Living above the cloud layer is an nifty thought experiment that is utterly pointless and frankly suicidal to attempt in real life. Balloons and gliders are fine and dandy for probes but you sure as hell aren't going to use those to live there under present conditions.

Anyone got a copy of Uncharted Worlds, the powered by Apocalypse sci fi Game?

>>49284438
Google is showing one if you search. It's version 0.83 but I've got no clue how current it is.

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>>49273084
Are these...double eared elves? How does /tg/ not constantly shit itself over these guys?

>>49284251
No, actually you would live inside of the "balloon", and it wouldn't be a balloon either it would be a structure composed of a high performance engineering plastic instead of steel girders (for both weight saving and elemental availability, the atmosphere is thick enough that you can filter it and use that as a basis for plastic manufacturing), I looked through various plastics and Polybenzimidazole can be made to be as strong as structural steel, Polyphenylene sulfide could also be used which isn't quite as strong with built in acid resistance unlike PBI, but unfortunately PPS requires sodium which is hard to come by in the atmosphere.

Acoustic and thermal insulation would be provided by Carbon Aerogel, another material that could be synthesized from atmospheric gasses.

The outer most layer would be the acid resistant one. You don't have to use teflon for this, there are plenty of other plastics that can do the job. Sulfuric acid is really not that big of a deal, we even let highschool chemistry labs play around with a diluted form of it.

With air being a lifting gas on Venus at about half the lifting strength as helium you wouldn't really need any form of complicated lifting apparatus.

>you can go live your Bioshock Infinite fantasy on Earth
You really can't. Air is not a lifting gas on Earth unless it's heated. Cloud 9 would be harder to construct than a base on Venus. Martian bases require pressurized vessels to be either shipped or constructed. Venusian bases both do not need to hold pressure and can have many of their construction materials harvested in situ. (just basic things like gasses and plain elements in the early years of colonization, but later full plastic manufacturing once material science gets better)

It's far more practical than you would at first believe. It also happens to look cool as well.

>>49272152
40 fucking k

>>49284918
First off you'd still need secured environments on Venus because you sure as hell don't want humans exposed to that atmosphere. You're not only going to need housing and other facilities for the people but you'll need to raise food unless you plan on having it all shipped from Earth. That weight is going to make it harder to maintain the entire system. How do you plan on maintaining a permanent, controlled altitude? And how do you plan on supporting it with local resources? Because if this whole thing demands you throwing a constant stream of supplies from the Earth then what is the point? And you're sure as hell not going to get everything from sifting the atmosphere. The further down you have to go for resources the harder it will be to achieve. And if there are any problems you are in an incredibly deadly environment regardless of the altitude.

Building a pressurized box on Mars is much simpler than you're making it out to be and far more practical. And frankly if the structure springs a leak it's far less dangerous. God knows what you'd even need to survive on the surface of Venus in the attempt to mine the planet but the surface of Mars is far more accessible. We would have an easier time terraforming Mars by finding a way to generate an atmosphere. Get one thick enough and it will protect you from radiation and while, yes, it will lose atmosphere again that will be on a geological timeframe so no rush. It would be easier to engineer organisms that could help terraform Mars than Venus.

As for Venus the solar shield is a far more viable approach which you should look into. It's not just about massive space structures. It has been theorized that enough atmospheric balloons (you know you love balloons!) with reflective surfaces will help cool the planet, potentially enough to get the runaway greenhouse effect under control.

>>49286461
Did you even read anything he posted? Literally everything you mentioned got brought up. And mars will require more resources than Venus.

>>49286573
Did you? Because he literally didn't.

It's safe to say nobody has ever tested harvesting resources under the conditions on Venus. How safely can harvesting be done? How much can you get? Enough to get these floating plastics factories for his super space age crap they'd need to manufacture to replace the structures, assuming those structures even prove adequate to the Venusian environment?

What was the point of mentioning diluted sulfuric acid in high school when we're not even talking about diluted or controlled laboratory environments but goddamn clouds of the stuff.

And the levels of resources required for Mars drop considerably, and the environment remains far more tenable to human life, if we go the route of seeding engineered organisms. It certainly won't be done overnight.

>>49286461
>how do you maintain that altitude?

>>49276584
>>49276735
>>49277111
>>49278905 (with errata: >>49279240 )
https://youtu.be/dxlMFsw1OfY

>building a pressurized box on Mars is much simpler than you're making it out to be and far more practical

We've been saying this about inflatable space station modules for the longest time as well and only recently are we actually seeing any development in the concept. This is because pressure vessels are a fucking ENGINEERING NIGHTMARE, and a pressure vessel that's not fixed in size is even more so of a nightmare.

The most practical concept for a station on Mars would be an inflatable (for weight savings) habitat module that is then covered in Martian soil to insulate it against various forms of harm. Now, while this may seem very practical if you are only looking at that aspect, in reality it is far more of a bitch to actually implement because:

1.Mars gives you fuck all for energy production, as there's practically no heat to be found and you get diddly squat for sunlight. Most Mars missions involve having to ship a nuclear reactor along for the trip to actually power anything bigger than a single rover.

2.If you're going to have a mission to a planet you HAVE to have a way to generate fuel in situ for the return trip. Mars offers very little in terms of potential fuels for the return trip. You could use the atmosphere to generate liquid Carbon monoxide and liquid Oxygen, but you'd need a significant amount of power to actually manage to both pump and cool that shit down which falls under problem 1. You could split water into liquid Hydrogen and liquid Oxygen, but see problem one for that one too.

3.Getting around Mars is a pain in the ass. The atmosphere is too thin for most conventional aircraft designs and you can forget about attempting to use the same trick you would be able to use on Venus. Rovers would be your best bet for traversing Mars, but rovers aren't particularly fast and are subject to Problem 1.

>>49286573
Are you sure? I'm not seeing anything about how he plains on maintaining a stable altitude under all conditions. Venus is not a gentle planet.

I especially liked his response to Bioshock. It's funny because what he didn't realize is if you fail on Earth then you're still on Earth. If you fail on Venus then you're fucked.

>>49272322
Eclipse Phase has the best lore, but that system can eat 12 dicks.

>>49286461

>And frankly if the structure springs a leak it's far less dangerous.

If a pressure vessel springs a leak, especially an inflatable one, you've got a serious problem on your hands. Worst case scenario is you spring a leak on Venus at the exact same time you pass through a cloud and emergency face masks would have to be applied until somebody closes the breach and cleans up any lingering acid. The winds would definitely creep in through the whole and start to diffuse the inner air with CO2, but again we're talking equal pressure here so it wouldn't be nearly as dramatic as it sounds. Colony designs would obviously be built with fail safes to keep themselves aloft while CO2 is removed. With a hull break on a pressure vessel you aren't trying to remove outside gasses, you're trying to keep your inner gasses from escaping, and a large enough hull would definitely be much harder to repair.

On Venus your mentality for hull breaches would be similar to hull breaches on a boat.

On Mars your mentality for hull breaches would be similar to hull breaches on a SUBMARINE.

>God knows what you'd even need to survive on the surface of Venus in the attempt to mine the planet but the surface of Mars is far more accessible.

Well here's something you might not have thought of: You don't put people on the surface of Venus in the first place.

Venus has lava flows on its surface that are kilometers in width and from recent evidence we've seen they are most likely active. That only makes mining easier, as you could design a very simple drone that consists of nothing but a bucket and a piston pump that is dropped full of CO2 on one side of the piston, and helium on the other. Once the bucket has filled with lava the piston triggers and CO2 is pumped out causing the drone to immediately float up until it reaches an altitude of neutral buoyancy.

>>49286461
And for the last part

>As for Venus the solar shield is a far more viable approach which you should look into. It's not just about massive space structures. It has been theorized that enough atmospheric balloons (you know you love balloons!) with reflective surfaces will help cool the planet, potentially enough to get the runaway greenhouse effect under control.

>Enough to get these floating plastics factories for his super space age crap they'd need to manufacture to replace the structures, assuming those structures even prove adequate to the Venusian environment?

You tell me to consider solar shields and then you call some slightly advanced chemistry "space age crap" ? Manufacturing plastics in situ would require nothing more than filtering gasses, a process that requires only some basic science, and then combining our filtered gasses with premade chemicals from earth to breed more complex chemicals that would eventually lead to us having the resources to not require Earth made chemicals and eventually manufacture plastic on Venus the same way we do on Earth.

>>49286985
Mars and Venus both are nightmares for landing. Mars because the atmosphere is too thin, you don't get enough slowdown from atmospheric friction. Venus is the opposite problem. The atmosphere is super goddamn thick so entry is burdened by trying to get any structure with a sufficient surface area risks burning up.

And all of this ignores what was stated >>49286461 about a far better projects than trying to find a way to suspend humans over a noxious atmospheric sea of acid just to thumb our nose at god. Terraforming is certainly not something that would be easy or achieved overnight, but it is definitely a viable option. On Mars you would try to produce more atmosphere by seeding primitive organisms engineered to survive there. With Venus you attempt to gain control over the greenhouse effect. Any project on Venus would be more intensive than trying to seed life on Mars.

>>49287472
Well if we're going to go over the terraforming argument then here's a simple fact about what Venus has and Mars doesn't: similar gravity to Earth, and more power generation opportunities than both Earth and Mars combined.

0.32 g will very likely require some engineering of the human genome for Martians to not end up as endless kidney stone generating, brittle boned, horrifyingly malformed spinal cord, freaks.

>>49287309
The further you drop on Venus the more precarious your position. 200+ mph winds will not look kindly on your structures. If you get caught in that atmospheric current, and your structure survives, and the condition that precipitated your drop doesn't worsen, and the various structures you have aren't pulled apart or otherwise manage to rise up again in the same area so you can reconnect them - then you might just be okay.

And keep in mind if your proposal is living "inside" the balloon so if it breaches then you run the risk of atmospheric contamination so you better figure out how to fix it before face mask's tank runs empty.

>Well here's something you might not have thought of: You don't put people on the surface of Venus in the first place.
Dear god we've been telling you that since you first claimed Venus is less deadly than Mars.

>>49287463
You're right, i should have said "science fiction crap" or just left it at crap. What size operation do you need to capture enough materials to manufacture plastics on Venus? You'd still need to sort, refine, and process them. You'd need to have a manufacturing base.

So okay if we can get a collection system up and running on the scale needed, and if we can get a factory up and running, and if we can house the staff to run it, and if we can supply them with local grown foods so we don't need to constantly ship from Earth - and on and on and on. Your operation just keeps growing in what you need, and at the same time you need to figure out how to float all this stuff, and you need to figure out how to do it on reentry because you don't dare land it and then float it later because, as stated, it's even worse the further down you go.

>>49272518
How's the weather on Jupiter, there?

>>49287574
It's a given we'll likely have to engineer ourselves anyway. We were designed for a very specific environment.

With Venus having a close to Earth gravity becomes worse given the density of the atmosphere which makes entry into it rather fiery.

>>49287635
Apparently better than on Venus and Mars based just on this thread.

May the TITANS end them all.

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>>49287607
>200+ mph winds will not look kindly on your structures

We already have aircraft that fly through that on a regular basis, even against the direction of the wind, which on Venus our crafts would always go with the wind, so we already have the technology to survive 200+ mph winds:

https://youtu.be/a-SnxC-BkPo

>>49287658
WE ALREADY KNOW HOW TO SURVIVE FIERY REENTRIES, IT'S CALLED AN EARTH REENTRY, IF WE DIDN'T SPACECRAFT WOULDN'T EVEN EXIST

>And keep in mind if your proposal is living "inside" the balloon so if it breaches then you run the risk of atmospheric contamination so you better figure out how to fix it before face mask's tank runs empty.

I already told you that it's not as big of a deal as you try to make it out to be. Your face mask would not even need to risk going empty in the first place. Do you forget how trivially plants convert CO2 into Oxygen? That's something you don't get on Mars by the way, you'd need to run a compressor just to even attempt to convert that CO2 into O2.

As stupid as it sounds, I'm partial to the Dungeons: The Dragoning universe. Something about the cobbled together way the setting is made with 50 different "empires" and countless other factions all fighting for power gives me a cool "warring Japanese states" vibe. That and all the other stuff you could have happening in the background makes for a interesting setting.
I just wish the whole thing wasn't such a superhero type system.

>>49287777
>aircraft
We're talking about habitats full of people and very valuable equipment needed to survive there.

>WE ALREADY KNOW HOW TO SURVIVE FIERY REENTRIES, IT'S CALLED AN EARTH REENTRY, IF WE DIDN'T SPACECRAFT WOULDN'T EVEN EXIST

Yeah and Venus isn't the Earth. That's why we've been talking over and over again about the thicker atmosphere. Near Earth gravity AND thicker atmosphere means EVEN MORE DIFFICULT ENTRY THAN ON EARTH. And you also CANNOT LAND because the surface IS DEADLY. You need to find a way to stop much even sooner.

Also it would be entry, not reentry, because we're talking about entering the first time not reentering after you leave.

>I already told you
No. You've given us pie in the sky (literally) assurances that it's totally safe. Your plastics may resist acid but humans are going to need more than a face mask.

You can find studies for using microbes on Mars. You don't have to take my word for it. And I'd also point out that despite your love of Venus, admirable as it is, all current human efforts, including NASAs, are on sending humans to Mars rather than trying to build you Cloud City. You can argue with them if you'd like, I'm done with you.

>>49287885

>NASA wants Mars

But you're wrong. Various scientists at NASA have been trying to get a colony on Venus first rather than Mars:

http://spectrum.ieee.org/aerospace/space-flight/nasa-study-proposes-airships-cloud-cities-for-venus-exploration

>>49279499
Oh, THANK YOU. I was so hyped for the setting, but I read it and the politics were just garbage-tier. I'm so glad it's not just me!

>>49287908
I think studying proposals is jumping your guns, anon. Meanwhile they aren't just studying Mars they've outlined their goals.

https://www.nasa.gov/content/journey-to-mars-overview/

They're already doing mock isolation trials for Mars

http://www.space.com/30425-yearlong-mock-mars-mission-begins.html

And thus far I'm not aware of a Venus equivalent of

http://www.mars-one.com

>>49288000
This latest Mars mission will get shut down just like every other big Mars proposal. Budget is king when it comes to these things, and the budget required to get people on Venus is much lower than the budget required to get people on Mars.

>>49272152
The question's invalid. By "sci-fi," you could mean anything from Gibsonesque cyberpunk, to the science-fantasy space opera of Star Wars, to the time-travel shenanigans of the Terminator franchise, to the clean, utopian future of Star Trek, to the space-west of Firefly.
TLDR: Sci-Fi is too big a genre to represent with one system. Find one that suits the game you want to play, and use it.

I love this thread. One anon who has clearly done his research patiently arguing his point while a dozen rabid high-schoolers try to refute him with things they learnt last week in chemistry like: "BUT VENUS IS HOT" and "SULFURIC ACID BAD"

It's like a microcosm of society and science as a whole. This is why we don't have flying cars, because rather than embrace a new idea, you'd rather be lazy and regurgitate something you picked up somewhere a few years ago.

>>49286380
no
that's stupid
you are stupid
The only thing the 40K RPGs are good for running is 40K.

>>49288075
Well actually flying cars isn't very practical because they require drivers to have pilots licenses among other things. I'm arguing the practicality of a Venus mission over the practicality of a Mars mission, the fact that it sounds cool is just a happy side effect.

>>49288075
Can't we just be excited about the possibility of flying airships on another planet within our lifetime?
Also, we don't have flying cars because they're kind of an awful idea.

>>49288075
Venus samefag detected.

Also, I can't believe you idiots are still arguing about this shit hours later. Can we make this a Jovian thread now?

>>49288053
That's still more than they've ever had for Venus. You'd be better off blaming politics, though with the rise of independent and corporate backed space initiatives maybe we'll see something. They're far less likely to do something just for science and discovery and aim more towards what they see as more viable and ultimately profitable.

>>49288060
With OP's image people seem to have felt safe assuming he meant space based futures over cyberspace ones. Of course some of them still intermesh!

>>49288207
It is true that politics is exactly how we got into this mess in the first place. Back in the day the USSR and the United States made an agreement that one side would get Venus (USSR), and the other side would get Mars (United States). When the USSR's space program went tits up funding for Venus got slashed. There were actually Soviet proposals for bases on Venus, but thanks to the whole iron curtain we only get to see a small part of them.

>>49288134
Almost seemed like people were going to when Europa Report was first brought up.

For whatever it's worth though I'm the anon who suggested we start with the moon. It just makes sense as a planetary support. Or stations at the lagrange point. We don't fare too well in low gravity but the benefits on construction combined with ease of launching missions make it tasty, plus it's still on our front door, so to speak. If we're really going to relocate asteroids to mine those wouldn't be bad destinations to park them.

>>49288207
If that's the criteria, then I'd say Mongoose Traveller. The 2d6 system is simple and fast and the chargen allows you to create an interesting backstory along with your character.

>>49288247
I'm the guy who's been arguing for Venus, and I also believe the Moon is a relatively good case for colonization as well. It's extremely close, which is the biggest thing that helps it, even if it has a number of survival problems.

There are actually massive empty lava tubes on the Moon that if we were to find the entrance (or make our own entrance) to one we could put a whole colony underground with practically no mining needed.

The gravity issue is still there, but with the Moon's lack of an atmosphere and lack of gravity we could probably make centrifuge stations inside of our lava tubes that give people 1g without having to worry about things like air resistance and the cost of spinning the colonies.

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>>49288134
>Jovian
Enjoy your 1/27th sunlight.

Not /tg/ buy anyone hyped for Children of a Dead Earth?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiIh4Xw2bnQ

>>49278273
>ship combat
Muh homebrew
>>49273855

>>49288314
Looks like Kerbal Space Program with space combat and worse UI.

>>49288314
Oh yeah I'm definitely hype for Children of A Dead Earth.

>>49288337

Worse, it's "realistic" space combat, the most boring kind of space combat. I'd list the games that have gone down that road, but I forgot them.
They try to dress it up with sparkly lights, but it still looks incredibly dull.

>>49288262
Not op but I've been looking at Traveller since it was brought up. It does look like it'd be decent. I prefer simple and fast because (in my experience) this allows for better story driven games. Less rules to mess with and generally less arguing/looking crap up. It's also typically easier to tack on new stuff as needed than to jam it into a more complicated system.

>>49288309
With the moons proximity you could rotate crews far easier to alleviate some of the gravity/radiation problems. Thanks to being tidally locked the Earth actually provides one of the best shields to protect any operations there.

How do people feel about hacking in space-focused sci fi settings?

In the future is everything hackable (by the right person with the right tools)? Or is everything hacker-proof, and will self-destruct long before it becomes compromised?

How large of a role should electronic warfare play in ship combat?

>>49288432
I like electronic warfare in the form of jamming and decoys in space warfare, but not outright hacking enemy vessels.

>>49288432
I think we're currently in an era where cracking is so easily done through human engineering that future security tools will eventually depend as little as possible on the integrity of the user, and with that goes probably 90% the cases were people have been able to break into systems.

I think cracking after this would involve trying to trick the security system more so than either trying to trick the user or trying to trick the program. It would definitely involve a rudimentary form of AI and possibly brain modification to get us able to even comprehend how to break these new systems.

>>49288455
I don't particularly mind hacking, although not of the Battlestar Galactica variety. There's plenty of ways to sneak crap into computer systems by having embedded executable information in otherwise innocuous things as images. I don't think technology will ever become hackproof. Vulnerabilities appear in new ways.

I don't like the notion of a station on a ship dedicated to "pwning" the enemy computer. It's a very unwise enemy that accepts any links to their enemy. You'd need to come up with vectors, hopefully beyond Ensign Nickles was stupid and left the wifi password on his terminal as 12345 and your ship flies around trying to locate a signal. But sneaking a team on-board an enemy station or ship and planting something? That's more like it.

I prefer, as you said, jamming but also interception of communication and attempts to break the encryption. You know, code breaking. There is a lot you can do when the enemy doesn't know that you know what they know as they talk to each other, or being able to send orders to the enemy that seem genuine.

>>49273574
underrated taste.

>>49288483
"Captain! Incoming message!"
"We're in the middle of a battle, Lieutenant! It can wait!"
"But this Nigerian Prince is telling us he has over two billion in credits he cannot access without first knowing our missile self-destruct codes and then he'll transfer 20% to our accounts!"
"My god man! It's too good to pass up!"

>>49288558
You would be amazed as to how many security officials fall for things like that.

>>49288588
Fun fact: Nigerian scam emails deliberately use poor spelling and grammar to weed out smart people, so that only idiots will respond.

>>49288588
Sadly no I would not. Hell, part of the Hilary email scandal is the FBI reporting how she received an email from a trusted contact with a porn link but replied that she wasn't sure it was really them so she wasn't sure if she should use the link or not.

What I'm tempted to add into a sci-fi game is an AI that is supposed to protect the ship's systems who keeps falling for those scams. I mean it just wanted to help this poor prince out.

>>49288664
If you wanted to go far future you could incorporate the laws of robotics and have arguing with an AI over whether or not it's hurting with you replace traditional social engineering.

Person: If you don't give me access to this bank account my family will starve
AI: You could try getting a job
Person: The market is all dry, nobody wants my skills
AI: There are various training courses for reeducation out there
Person: That I can't afford
AI: I did not cause that situation to happen to you, I am sorry, but I will not help you

The person comes back with a man pointing a gun at his head

Person: OH GOD PLEASE, HE'S GOING TO KILL ME IF I DON'T PAY HIM

The account is unlocked.

>>49288726
Let's face it, any halfway decent evil corporation (a rather redundant concept) would just install a buffer where their own carefully crafted terms and services would supersede any Three Laws implementation.

And if the AI was given its own social engineering algorithm this poor would be criminal would wake up the next day realizing he's just opened up a new mortgage on his house and bundled his insurance on all the cars he's stolen meaning he's just created a record of which vehicles he has in his possession and also a new low interest rate loan which, it turns out, only remains low interest for the first six months and then sharply increases and it turns out if he can't pay they're authorized to harvest his organs.

>>49272707
It's always GURPS, isn't it?

>>49288381
>I'd list the games that have gone down that road, but I forgot them.
Because there were none?

>>49288932
Well, the Space book is a nice help to build your own space setting, and the rules lend themselves well to the typical cinematic sci-fi heroes, so, yeah.

>>49276947
>You've said 0 good things about it, though.
And that clearly isn't enough.

>>49288120
>Also, we don't have flying cars because they're kind of an awful idea.
God yes. Drunk driving already pretty bad? Imagine it with a flying car!
Or aerial "road" rage!
Or (sadly fitting for today) people using flying cars full of explosives and ball bearings/nails or whatever.

For that last one alone even if it were feasible I cannot imagine the government would allow it. Good way to check how it will be abused is to give it to players and see what they do with them.

>>49284498
That's not the final version.

Final version is mythically hard to 'find

>>49280670
The way to go would be to use all that dioxyde and chemicals to grow shittons of algae for food, energy or simply organic materials.

>>49290676
You know that raises a really interesting point. People have been looking into the possibility of using microorganisms to produce methane as a clean energy source for some time now.

If we're talking theoretical future (and I don't think any of the technology mentioned in this thread has been proven for anything near what we'd need on any of these planets) then the idea of growing "meat" in vats for astronauts has been floated before. Why not grow their produce biofuel as well? I'm sure our current ability to create designer organisms isn't near good enough but they could even be used for things like atmospheric scrubbing, oxygen generation. Not really sure how you'd control it 100%.

Of course watch them mutate into some space plague that murders everyone.

>>49290830
I know it's an interesting point, after all it's a planet that has about the same environment on surface than you get near the volcanoes on the ocean floor.

And even if you don't want to get on the surface you can just have farms on zeppelins, balloons or gliders on the upper atmosphere.

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http://www.popularmechanics.com/space/moon-mars/a15410/terraform-mars-with-microbes/

I wouldn't be surprised if we find out tardigrades hitchhiked from Mars on an asteroid. Forget the TITANS, Chaos, all things Orky; these are the little bastards you have to watch out for. Mark my words.

In a less joking sense, consider whether Mars is capable of supporting Earth based life. If it had life of it's own it could very well still exist, if not active then even frozen, awaiting the right conditions to reactivate. Given there is water on the surface maybe there is surely water underground. Life could have retreated there.

It doesn't get floated around in scifi all that much and especially gaming but what do you do if a planet has native, albeit non-sentient life? Do you terraform anyway? Do you supplant it? Do you worry about contamination? Is it ethical to wipe out an ecosystem in favor of one conducive to our form of life? Does it matter if it's just microbes? What about a rich, lush world with primitive sentients? Do you game with a Prime Directive to leave life alone? Or do you take what you can?

I'm curious whether questions of morality like this are viable for games or just buzzkills that suck the life out of a game that ultimately isn't real so who cares?

>>49288314
I'm more hype for Rogue System. Aka DCS: Space.

>>49290862
>>49290830
Also to expand a bit on that, the biggest problem would be that there is very few hydrogen on Venus (so water would be limited).

>>49290960
We don't have a very good picture of Venus' surface. Literally, barring radio mapping but we don't really know much about the surface conditions. Hell, look at Mars. We've been tossing landers and rovers at it for decades and only recently managed to confirm the presence of water, albeit pretty damn salty water.

Venus is an interesting planet but it has so many problems making adequately studying it so damn hard.

Who knows, though. Maybe our children's children's children will get lucky with Proxima b. It may be in the habitable zone but who the hell knows what orbiting a red dwarf that closely has done to it, historically or present conditions. Still it's the dream that scifi books, movies, and games are made of.

>>49291005
Oh sure we don't know much but what's sure is that hydrogen isn't as ubiquitous as on earth.

But overall maybe I'll die seeing the first orbital station built out of selenite aluminium and ceramic.

>>49291067
There may be a celebrated Venus rover someday soon:

http://www.nasa.gov/offices/oct/early_stage_innovation/niac/2012_phase_I_fellows_landis.html

Those power conditions are a total bitch, though. Definitely going to limit the onboard systems we can install. Of course once you cut out everything that takes up too much juice maybe you won't have to worry about the weight!

>>49273689
>Orbital
You know, I kept hearing how hard this game is, so I downloaded the PDF and, just to be on the safe side, immediately ctrl+F'd "stealth".

What do you know: it's got stealthy spaceships. I even made sure to read the entire entry about them. Space submarines, full way.

And into the trash it went.