Legend of the Five Rings plz!

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....no one?

I might be interested in cards from the Clan War era (Imperial-through-Scorpion Clan Coup). Preferably sealed boosters, and all the clan starters. Is this still possible?

For anyone who knows, how does Jade Edition compare to Clan War? Strictly Jade and Hidden Emperor (before they switched the templates)

>>49269415
You need some good bait to get the ball rolling on L5R threads, that's just the way things work.

>>49269527
You might be able to find this, but why wouldn't you just go for the cards you want? People are probably selling them cheaper now than ever before.

>>49271420
sealed 15+ year old product is hard to find

>>49273321
True ... fuck. It's been years since my old LGS was selling off their Gold Ed stock.

Been waiting 1,000 dark yes for FFG cardgame... when will it end?

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>>49274241
>wait for new L5R RPG
>grow tired of waiting
>make your own new L5R RPG

I feel privileged now.

>>49274241
Well FG just lost the Warhammer license, so they'll need a new product soon.

Unless they think they can live off Star Wars

>>49275174
they can until Disney dicks them. But Runewars is coming and just about direct competition to warhammer. Only like 300 days to the lcg release

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Bumping with Moshi waifu

>>49278507
I really hate how the card game art conflicts with the setting. :\

>>49278615
I really hate how Yoritomo-washed all the other Mantis are.

>>49278622
But it's the MANTIS clan, baka. Now they're like all the other clans. Each family is mostly <ANIMAL> but with a small quirk.

>>49278615
>implying that it does

>>49278942
It unquestionably does.
Aside from the fact that the clothing almost all clashes with what's written about clothing, even character descriptions don't match, with stuff like hair color and distinguishing features not lining up with official descriptions.

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>>49278966
>with what's written about clothing

What is written about clothing is that samurai wear modest clothing... except when they don't, Literally this is all it. Two fooking sentences (4th edition RPG rulebook, page 32, at the end of the first column).

>>49279927
From page 32
>Considered inappropriate and barbaric to show one's limbs or torso in public.
>Some clans do violate this rule to a certain degree... but even they do not presume to dress immodestly while in court or visiting a daimyo.

And then go down three pages to 35, where it goes into great detail about clothing.

Older editions had similar levels of detail. The cards never matched it.

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As someone who has only ever played MtG, how would you sell this to me? It looks interesting but I know nothing about it except that it's very Asian.

>>49280079
Oh wait I always thought this was a card game. Huh. Nevermind then.

>>49280079
I wouldn't, because the CCG is dead.
If you're interested in LCGs, then you can wait for Fantasy Flight to release it next year like the rest of us.

>>49280106
Card game is dead until August 2017

>>49280106
It was a card game, but there's also a long running RPG.
And since the card game was discontinued, there's nothing left to talk about aside from the RPG.

>>49280220
I'm not excited for the card game to launch and this place turns as chaotic as the Star Wars general. They have like 8 different products everyone is talking about.

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>>49278507
>>49278615
>>49279927
>>49280026

This always reminds me how 2nd/D20 Edition and the Secret of the... books were the best shit art-wise.

>>49280588
we miss you, Cris Dornaus. she could have been amazing, and they burned her out.

Bumpu

>>49280026
Emerald Empire goes into even more detail IIRC.

It's been a well known fact that the CCG art has more often than not been a poor representation of the setting as presented by the RPG, and sorry but anyone saying otherwise doesnt know what they're fucking talking about.

Okay how do we fix dueling so not every duelist is basically a courtier

>>49286758
Duelling now uses a different Ring per roll.

>>49286758
You can't really, since that would destroy some important core parts of the setting and system. Sword and Fan, one and the same and all that.

>>49286831
Then you just make duelists even more useless outside of dueling, since they're spread so thin that they can't do anything else.

>>49286852
>Then you just make duelists even more useless outside of dueling
The key of it is that you don't set which Rings go with which rolls, only that you have to a different Ring each time.

Obviously it's important to revamp duelling so that there is no longer a single roll that decides the duel. (looking at you, Focus)

>>49286758
Scrap specialized dueling mechanics entirely. Make it a subtype of skirmish where duelists get a specialty bonus.

Oh yeah, I went there.

>>49286952
...But dueling doesn't use normal Rings, it uses two stats and Void, which is a special case.
If anything, I'd change assessment from Awareness to Perception, so pumping the Air Ring isn't such a brainless choice.

>>49287049
It already kind of is. Dueling is broken down into rounds that correspond to regular skirmish rounds. If a duel happens in the middle of a fight, it happens over the course of three rounds within that fight, and could be disrupted.

>>49287055
>...But dueling doesn't use normal Rings
No shit. The question was, "How do we fix duelling?"

Gotta change something if you don't think it's fixed already.

>>49287101
Well changing what rings it uses doesn't make sense if it doesn't use rings to begin with is my point.
And making it too hard to be a duelist isn't a good thing either. You kill off a lot of character concepts (And sometimes more importantly) render certain schools worthless overall if you make dueling a "bad" choice mechanically.

>>49287101
But then you just make it harder for non-Kakita duelists to keep up, since it's harder to be good at dueling, but just as easy for the Kakita to get their high bonuses.

The problem with dueling isn't in the dueling mechanics themselves.

You have to fix the root of the problem: that traits and rings are fucking retarded.

>>49287250
I think they work just fine and they're a good flavorful mechanic.
Why do you think they're retarded?

>>49287069
I preferred it when duelling wasn't clarified to not be two rounds (Assessment/Focus, then Strike/Damage); you only get one centre stance bonus per round, and it just worked for me that you have a choice of where to put it.

>>49287167
> changing what rings it uses doesn't make sense if it doesn't use rings to begin with is my point
I can't help it if your brain problems prevent you understanding that shifting duelling to Rings is the fundamental part of making duelling with Rings open choice.

>>49287199
Yeah, you said this. I still don't agree. You might as well say that, as it exists now, Attributes make it harder for non-Kakita duellists, because the Kakita can buy Attributes.

Also;
>Obviously it's important to revamp duelling so that there is no longer a single roll that decides the duel

You both went blind or something (stop masturbating while typing) and ignored this.

>>49287328
I didn't mention the single roll thing because I'm not contesting that.
But making it harder for all duelist means that the Technique bonuses of dedicated duelists have more value because they're relatively higher bonuses, making the dedicated duelists even better.

>>49287282
It's not the idea, it's the execution. The way Rings are calculated isn't very well thought out. "Perception" and "awareness" being two different things has caused all kinds of confusion and has reeked been desperate reaching for an even number of traits since day 1. The constant reshuffling of what traits go with what ring in every edition.

There's something fundamentally wrong with the way the mechanic is executed even if the idea is solid.

>>49287429
The name of Awareness is kinda poor, but what it represents is very different from Perception. Awareness could be renamed to "Charisma" and it would be mostly accurate. It's only really "awareness" in the sense of "social awareness". Someone who is blind can have a high Awareness, but would have massive penalties to Perception related to sight.

>>49287385
That's a valid point. BUT. This way opens options for duellists that aren't Air/Void. Assuming it's still three rolls, a typical Crab could decide to use Fire/Earth/Void, for example.

>>49287429
>"Perception" and "awareness" being two different things has caused all kinds of confusion
Mainly for people who don't read, as I've found.
>The constant reshuffling of what traits go with what ring in every edition.
Wat. No.

>>49287487
But then you have the problem of a duelist with low Reflexes. A slow duelist is not a good duelist.

>>49287526
>On the first Round of the duel, both characters enter the Assessment stage on the Initiative Turn of the faster duelist.

>During the second Round of the duel, both characters enter the Focus stage on the Initiative Turn of the faster duelist.

>On the third Round of the duel, both characters enter the Strike stage on the Initiative Turn of the slower duelist

Initiative means nothing in a duel, and I see no reason to change that. ATN is slightly important, but a good focus roll will blow right through your ATN if you lose. So now I think you're just quibbling for the sake of it.

>>49287487
I dunno, I don't think a typical character should be good at dueling without putting the points in. Reflexes are worth it for pretty much everyone, Void is worth it for pretty much everyone, even a little bit of Awareness can pay off with Insight (For increasing the Air Ring). Every clan has duelists, and every samurai is "expected" to be good at a wide variety of activities, so you don't need to especially justify it either.

It's not super well balanced, but the Crane having rigged things in their favor is part of the setting.

>>49287605
I didn't say initiative, I said Reflexes. On the third round, you attack with your Reflexes. Outside of mechanics, it's reflexes and twitch response that you use to do the draw cut. Being fast should be important to iaijutsu dueling.

>>49287623
Being fast is one thing, but correctly reading the opposition striking to meet their speed will beat it every time.

>If one duelist beats the other’s (Focus) roll by 5 or more, that duelist earns the right to make the first strike.

>>49287676
And outside of mechanics, you can't meet your speed if they're faster than you. So you have to be fast.

Basically what I'm saying is that I think dueling is just fine as an Air based thing, other than Awareness being the only thing you can use for assessment. Making the Focus step less critical is well and good, but changing Strike from Reflexes doesn't work for me.

If Focus is the most important part of a duel, then it being Void is probably a good idea. Literally any character can (And probably should) have a decent Void and it's never a wasted investment. It's hella useful for any sort of character.

>>49287726
>you can't meet your speed if they're faster than you
It's not about matching their speed; you're trying to twist what I said to suit your perspective. It's about knowing what they're going to do and pre-empting it. That's Focus, and that decides who strikes first.

>Basically what I'm saying is that I think dueling is just fine [short of ...]
Then we basically disagree.

>>49287836
No, that's literally what you said.
>but correctly reading the opposition striking to meet their speed will beat it every time.
>to meet their speed

>Then we basically disagree.
I guess so.

>>49287429
>The constant reshuffling of what traits go with what ring in every edition.
Unless you're talking about the d20 version, this never happened.

AIR
Reflexes
Awareness
EARTH
Stamina
Willpower
FIRE
Agility
Intelligence
WATER
Strength
Perception
VOID

It's been like that since 1e, the only thing that changed was the order they listed the rings in (1e put Earth, Water, Fire, Air, Void, while 4e puts Air, Earth, Fire, Water, Void).

>>49287875
>No, that's literally what you said
Just 'literally' using the same words in incorrect context doesn't make you correct.

Moving faster loses to someone that puts themselves in the correct place to hit you first.
That's reading the opposition and striking to meet their speed.

>>49273042
This gif made me smile.
Now I need to go watch Sanjuro.
Thanks, anon.

>>49288123
Heh. I wanted to go watch Sanjuro after posting, too.

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>>49286758
Rework the whole combat mechanics for an Action Points system and then just put everything (skirmishes, dueling, social combats, mass battles) under that umbrella with some flavor-specific modifications.

So you would duel exactly like you skirmish, the only difference is that you roll Iaijutsu (Focus) / Air for Initiative (an to an extent, number of Actions Points) instead of Insight / Air, and you make Iaijutsu (Strike) / Reflexes rolls to attack instead of Weapon Skill / Agility.

Duelists would have gimmicks based on their dueling styles. For example, a Kakita Bushi would be all about killing people with a single super-powerful strike - an ability that is super-good in duels but pretty darn sweet in skirmishes too.

Before you ask, been there, done that, and it is cool, though duelists doing duelist stuff in a skirmish is somewhat annoying.

>>49281633
>Ikarukani

My nigga.

>>49280220
>implying the L5R general ever talked about the CCG even when it was still alive.

>>49292084
I intend to talk about the card game when it launches. So prepare your anus, courtier-san

Why should I play this game /l5rg/?

Been mostly playing WFRP2e, and wondering how this experience could differ.

>>49292127
Because one of the major character archetypes is lawyer.

>>49292184
WFRP2e has toll booth workers.

>>49292222
Because one of the lawyer classes operates exclusively on blackmail.

>>49292286
How many courtiers are actually get Lore: Law in their school skills? They're mostly more like diplomats.

>>49292286
You got me.

>>49293104
Etiquette and Courtier is also pseudo-lore skills, since they require knowledge of social rules and norms, as well as natural charisma and wit.

>>49293688
Right, exactly: social norms. Courtier is all about being persuasive, and Etiquette is all about being polite, but all of the rules of behaviour they cover are social instead of legal. Lore: Law is the skill for actually knowing the law, and none of the courtiers in core have it named as a school skill-- not even the Kitsuki. At most they have "any one high skill" or "any one Lore skill".

So while it's certainly easy to for them to pick up, and while many courtiers certainly do become or act as lawyers, it's by no means their default state or role.

>>49293978
Probably looking at the word lawyer too literally... ironically.

>>49293978
Actually understanding the law is tertiary (At best) to being a Rokugani lawperson. Many magistrates don't even have Lore: Law because their positions were gained from political favors and there's a general assumption that if you got the position with your current training (Regardless of what that training was), then your current training is good enough. Being too open about not knowing the law will shame the people who sponsored and hired you for the position, and that's not something any samurai wants to do, since those people are probably his lord and a higher ranking magistrate (Or even the Emerald Magistrate).
The legal system is seriously a mess, since so many magistrates don't really understand it, but can't be called out without crashing huge chunks of the system.

>>49293104
Just keep in mind that the big 7 School Skills are not the only skills taught by the school. They're just the core curriculum that everyone gets. There's electives and extra classes on almost every topic. Even courtier and shugenja schools will have combat instructors, and even bushi schools will have courtly instructors. Schools are like universities that you join in kindergarten.

>>49295549
Of course schools teach other subjects, but the School Skills are the ones that the sensei make mandatory as stuff you can't do your job without. If a courtier learns law, it's because they wanted to, and the reason they don't typically have to is that "lawyer" is not their primary role. They're diplomats and ambassadors and governors and functionaries before they're lawyers, and while they can be called on to act in a lawyerly capacity, they typically get it done not by having any actual knowledge of the law, but by doing the equivalent of having the case settled out of court because they did someone a favour and/or blackmailed someone. To call courtiers "the lawyer class" like >>49292286 is a gross oversimplification. They typically do their best work BEFORE anything becomes a matter of law, and stick to those methods even if it does becomes such a matter.

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Bumping with modest Moshi waifu.

So what was the least honourable thing you're character has done?

>>49299362
*your
Shit, I should do better than this.

>>49299362
Forgot to use an honorific for someone higher rank than me.

I'm very careful with my honor most of the time.

>>49299362
Let a more honourable PC take responsibility over the group meeting someone important, then not have their back when it turned out the important guy is an asshole, and well informed enough to want us to call in our blank cheque favours for him.

>>49292286
One? Nah, more like three or so. One is an absolute dick about it, one kills you with kindness and makes you pay it back, and the last >>implies that it is going to ruin you.

>>49300321
Ide is pure. Ide is flawless.

>>49300335
Kitsuki and Asako are also fairly okay. Ikoma is bro-tier.

>>49299362
With my last character? Slapping an important Otomo NPC during the last day of summer court, right in front of Suikihime, due to him triggering my Brash disadvantage (thought it would be an interesting disadvantage to roleplay on a kakita bushi). It lead to the duel that meant his death, and i've told the story before in this general.

My current character is a monk of kaimetsu-uo, and i guess the least honourable thing he did was indirectly calling the yoritomo clan champion a fool for not heeding my kawaru prophesizing, that staying on our current course would lead to darkness, a storm, opportunity for courage, and great loss of life. We ended up fighting in the rain against several ghost ships filled with zombie gaijin sailors, and the ship carrying the corpse of my previous character, to be laid to rest along my ancestors, was lost to the storm.

fuck the mantis

I'm listening to the RPG Academy L5r podcast, and it's heartbreaking. They're all fantastic roleplayers getting hip-deep into character, but the whole thing is centred around Spider drama, and ill-conceived Spider Drama at that. The main antagonist has very obviously committed illegal acts in concealing evidence of Taint and refusing the jurisdiction of a Kuni, but an Imperial magistrate specifically chosen for impartiality has ruled that there's been no crime. I'm pulling my hair out.

>>49301865
That means either the GM is spiderwanking, clueless as to the actual laws, or has made the guy not impartial for plot reasons.
66% chance of bad times ahead.

>>49301992
I'm pretty sure it's a combo of number two and not so much Spiderwank as grimwank.

>>49301865
>concealing evidence of Taint
Does anyone know this for sure?

>refusing the jurisdiction of a Kuni
That's hardly uncommon in Rokugan. Kuni are unliked by many; they're gruff, uncouth, and tend to stare.

>>49302013
It's not uncommon, but it is illegal (Assuming by "kuni" it's meant "Kuni Witchhunter").
Witch hunters are on the same level as Phoenix Inquisitors, the Scorpion Blackwatch, and Jade Magistrates. Regarding the Taint, they're pretty much absolute. The Kuni should have just rallied people and killed the fucker right then and there.

>>49301865
>Spider
Found the issue.

Besides, half of inner city set L5R is maneuvering around incompetent/corrupt/both superiors.

>>49302051
We are talking about a Witch Hunter, yes.

>>49302051
Everything and nothing is absolute in Rokugan. Laws, traditions, and precedents are as ubiquitous as loopholes to work around them to your advantage when working against the system, or without everything grinding to a halt when working with the system.

>>49302086
This I don't get. Was in a game where the DM had us set up against gangs of very obviously tainted ronin, who had been around long enough to earn a reputation.

I was flabbergasted that no one had lynched them yet, let alone informed a member of the aforementioned taint busters squads.

>>49302124
Taint is a little different than most things, since it's not just illegal, but also culturally and religiously abhorrent. Even clans that don't want to even think about the Taint (Looking at you Crane and Lion) will take up arms to destroy it once it's unquestionably found.

Part of the reason the Spider is such a dumb idea is that the taint is straight up blasphemy.
Also, in this case, there's a direct imperial decree that says all the tainted spider are supposed to fuck off to the colonies, so this is double illegal and the witch hunter would have been 100% in the right to demand seppuku, exile (to the colonies), retirement (To a jade petal monastery) or execution.

>>49302124
That cuts both ways, of course. Part of the reason for the witch hunter's bad reputation is their habit of rolling in, testing for taint (Which is usually quite an insult) and then resolving the taint without consulting or asking local authorities for permission.

>>49302224
>Taint is a little different than most things, since it's not just illegal
Taint isn't illegal. Concealing it is.

>>49302249
>That cuts both ways, of course
Of course. The Kuni in question needs to be able to force access first, though.

>>49302290
That's what I meant yeah.
Point is, it's illegal in three ways, and the magistrate claiming that no law has been broken can only mean that the GM either doesn't know the relevant laws, is a spider wanker, or is doing this for Plot reasons.

So that's the question.
Is this turn of events presented as a problem for the PCs to solve, or the actual truth?

>>49268488
I like l5R, almost every edition of it, just not the SRDd20 version.

>>49304567
No one likes the d20 version, we actually tend to make it a point to pretend it never existed around these parts.

Being a crab woman must be suffering. If the shadowlands start acting up, there's are good chance that your male relatives, your spouse and your sons will end up sacrificing themselves on the wall to protect Rokugan, a place that doesn't want to acknowledge what must be sacrificed to keep it safe.

And then you will probably be married off again as soon as possible, so that you can birth more sons to feed the meatgrinder.

>>49304683
Crab women are just as resigned to sacrifice as Crab men. They're just not as glamorous, since their role is to make sure the place the men come back to at the end of the day isn't a complete shithole.

>>49304683
There's a reason why one of the surest forms of suicide in Rokugan is to insult a Crab's mother.

>>49304667
I like that they did art of the kami in one of the Secrets books, and that Way Of The Open Hand broadened the martial horizons.

>>49305040
No anon, those were 2e books. There was nothing d20 in any of those books.

>>49301865
>refusing the jurisdiction of a Kuni
How tainted is the guy? If it's enough to be considered serious any Kuni worth their salt would bow their understanding to the magistrate and then hit the tainted fucker straight in the face with a Jade Strike.

When the guy's skin starts burning off what are they going to do, tell the Kuni he was wrong?

If the guy's not that tainted, but the Kuni know's he's actively doing things tainty things, he drops a boulder on him the first chance he gets and hightails it back to the wall where the Family daimyo and Clan Champion will tell anyone that comes to complain to eat an entire bag of goblin dicks.

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>>49301865
>Dude does something bad
>Totally!impartial higher-ranking dude says it is ok
>It is ok and shut your whore mouth senpai
>Drama ensues

It is literally just another boring day in Rokugan. I wonder whether this is the oldest story element in the setting or samurai committing sudoku over trivial - but super-overdramatized - matters for no apparent reason.

You hate it only because it is Spider, and hating the Spider is cool.

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Anyone able to tell me whatever happened to Chuda Ruri? I know she married a Crab while posing as a ronin but ended up falling in love with him and kinda wanting to be a good waifu. Did she get a happy end? Did unnamed Crab bro pump her full of babies to the point where she no longer cared about those other queers?

>>49305902
>She has Taint 2.8

I guess that rules out children, unless she wants to fill up the ranks of the Damned. Her husbando might be also Tainted at this point because Shadowlands STD.

>>49306213
y u make me sad, anon?

>>49306278
It is Rokugan man, there are no happy endings.

>>49305902
She was planned to rejoin the Chuda family and the Spider Clan in the CCG in the planned sets before the game was sold, becoming a powerhouse in the Chuda blood control deck.

The best we could find out story wise is that she kills a shit ton of crabs and fucks the Kuni family up on the way out once Iweko II breaks the deal.

Her card art was spoiled and looked amazing as usual.

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>>49306316
I *know*! But I'd rather you not remind me. That no kids thing was enough to make me a sad panda.

>>49306374
Infinite sadness.

>>49305902
She got new card art but the game died before her new version could be released.

>>49306397
Sad crabs that they will never have true bloodspeaker waifus... I have not even pity

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>>49305902
Her art was on point.
Based Steve Argyle

>>49306456
>be dutiful and honorabru Crab bushi
>get maximum qt ronin shugenja waifu
>you love her and she loves you
>can't seem to have kids
>will never have sons and qt daughterfus to carry on your duty and shout HIDA
>eventually discover you've contracted too much taint
>not realize it's from plowing your qt waifu trying to make honorabru Crab babbys
>get transferred to the Damned
>later hear your qt waifu went crazy out and murdered a bunch of your friends with blood magic before exiting stage right
>everyone hates you now
>even your uncle Hida Bob and cousin Angry Crab
>only thing you have to look forward to is dying in battle so that it'll all be over

Being a Crab is suffering.

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>>49306397
After giving it a second thought they DID give her the standard anime mother hair in one of the arts (pic related), so there might be a (Tainted) kiddo or two.

>>49306538
You missed the part where the Crab Bushi, unknowing that his waifu was originally tainted, assumes that HE was the one that tainted her and blames himself for everything.

>>49306540
>>49306467
>>49305902
Fuck the art for this game was amazing...

>>49306570
>You missed the part where the Crab Bushi, unknowing that his waifu was originally tainted, assumes that HE was the one that tainted her and blames himself for everything.

BEING A CRAB IS SUFFERING!

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>>49306570
>Fuck the art for this game was amazing...
Only sometimes.

>>49306601
Someone should post that Bayushi card where they accidentally used (bad) female art for a male character.

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Story from another player group. Prepare your butts for some "Gozoku Done Right" tier shit.
>Alternate setting, pic related, with continent-spamming Emerald Empire
>Current Emperor is Kaiu Hikaru, the Carpenter Emperor, the divine grandson of the Kami Hida. He turns the whole empire into a construction site as everything is rebuilt under his rule, replacing shit with superior Kaiu architecture.
>Party is Shiba Artisan, Doji Kakita Artisan, Kitsune Artisan, and Doji Courtier. Their plan: overthrow the Carpenter Emperor because his projects are dirty.
>"Emperor Hikaru turned the Emerald Empire into a claypit of mud and stone when it should be a monument of jade and gold!" - quote from the Shiba Artisan.
>So, they travel to Otosan Uchi, a metropolis of 5 million here, to get the best out of their plan.
>Insight 2/3 party, almost zero connections, some Glory there-and-there, but no Allies, no connections, no Status, no nothing. Just some artisans conspiring to subvert the throne.
>The city is freshly rebuilt, there is quite a chaos around the districts, so the party can hide in a... wait for it... the most luxurious building their money can buy, maybe the only building nobody can miss even in the chaos.
>Doji Artisan starts recruiting followers by handing out leaflets to random people around the party's HQ.
>Shiba Artisan writes rebellious articles to the equivalent of the local newspaper, and makes his way to have them published.
>Kitsune Artisan and Doji Courtier tries to get some powerful connections. They first throw a fit to the motherfucking Black Watch when they shoo them away, then start fucking around the Imperial Secret Police while being completely oblivious to the fact that they are fucking around the Imperial Secret Service.

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>>49308598
>Shiba Artisan finally achieves a breakthrough, enlists the help of a Minor Clan. The Lily Clan is a bunch of ex-Crane artisans who were so insufferably special snowflake-y not even the Crane could handle them so they let them create their own Minor Clan with bells and whistles.
>Kitsune Artisan draws the attention of the Emerald Office, but the Doji Courtier "saves" the situation by seducing a magistrate and brutally assassinating him (brutally as it took her a shitton of stabs to finish him).
>The party thinks this is totally fine and dumps the dead body into some random ditch where it is quickly found by the authorities.
>The party is busted within a day. The Doji Courtier, distressed over the murder, confesses everything and even more as she tells a colorful story of drama and tragedy. The Shiba Artisan breaks out in tears upon hearing the story and begs for forgiveness to the Doji Courtier.
>The Kitsune Artisan grow jealous and presents an even more moving story that only has tidbits of truth but sure sounds very tragic.
>The dead magistrate is now the lost son of some obscure divine dynasty who only wanted to redeem the sins of his glorious grandfather but his honor was too weak and he succumbed to the lure of maho and sheet.
>Still tracking the party from the shadows, the Black Watch makes its move and busts out the party, intending to follow them to the maho cult the Kitsune Artisan was talking about.
>They realize their mistake too late. The Imperial Secret Police counterattacks, thinking that the Black Watch is into something, and the Emerald Office soon joins for a deathmatch in the shadows.
>The party just kinda continues where they had left before this little intermezzo. Nobody cares about them anymore.
>The Doji Artisan, feeling kinda left-out, initiates gay romance with an Imperial Legion captain.

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>>49308761
>Sensing an opportunity, the Shiba Artisan manipulates the Doji Artisan to send his lover and his legion to somewhere far away or sumthing. The details are elusive on this one.
>Kitsune Artisan is captured by local criminal organization, Shiba Artisan and Doji Courtier... uhm... rescues him I guess? They challenged the crime lord for a game of go, lost the game, got imprisoned themselves, then the Doji Courtier seduced and killed the guard, freeing the others too before making a fabulous escape.
>Crime gang attacks the Doji Artisan and his lover to enact revenge, they get their butts sliced into sushi by the captain. After returning to the party's HQ, the Doji Artisan and the Captain have hot gay sex to vent off the excitement.
>Kitsune Artisan accidentally walks into the room, joins for a gay threesome.
>Faggot love triangle ensues that almost shakes apart the party. The Doji Courtier is thus forced to seduce the captain... and guess what, she kills him in his own office. She leaves a love haiku on his desk so that the dead may forgive her. She also gifts her clothes to some hobo to clear her kharma.
>Imperial Legion goes apeshit, full mobilization, they march out of the city to hunt down the murderer of their captain. She was seen leaving the city to the west (this was the hobo tho), so there they go.
>Shiba Artisan begins to feel his luck and initiates the coup.
>Party buys ashigaru armors and paints them emerald green, thus successfully masquerading themselves as Imperial Legionnaires coming to the Forbidden City to replace the leaving Legion.
>Infiltration is successful because the Doji Courtier seduces and kills the gate master, throwing him out of the window of the gate house. While everyone is busy investigating, the party and their Lily Clan allies scatter like roaches and disappear in the Forbidden City.
>They meet again at the Imperial Palace, some still in fake armor, and make their way to the gate.

>>49308761
>three-way shadow war
>and they're all after the same group of people who basically just walk away

Topkek.

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>>49308992
>>49308992
>Shiba Artisan tries to distract the guards but he is unsuccessful, and the rebels have to zerg rush the two guys, incapacitating them after a big fight.
>They storm the suspiciously empty palace, and after asking for directions from a scared scribe, they reach the throne room.
>They go in with... uhm... swords blazing, the Shiba Artisan fires off his victory haiku, while the Doji Artisan faints from the excitement.
>But hey! The throne room is empty! Only one dude is there, the Imperial Chancellor, meditating quietly in front of the throne.
>Party takes the surprised Chancellor hostage after rudely interrupting his meditation.
>The Emperor is in an Empire-wide tour to oversee the various construction projects. He won't return for at least three days.
>Shiba Artisan collapses to the floor, defeated. He fired off his victory haiku before his actual victory. He starts questioning his own abilities and honor. The Chancellor's sassy remarks don't help his mood either.
>The son of the Lily Clan Champion comforts the Shiba Artisan, and they develop bromance. No homo.
>Kitsune Artisan tries to quiet the Chancellor, but he is highly unsuccessful and only gets shit from the witty old man. He ultimately breaks and cries himself into sleep in a corner.
>Doji Courtier seduces the Chancellor but can't push herself to kill him. Chancellor promises her that he would take her as concubine after this ends.
>Doji Artisan wakes up, develops intense jealousy towards the Shiba Artisan as he too had eyes for the Lily Son.
>After some argument, the Shiba Artisan orders the group to barricade the throne room and wait for the Emperor to arrive.
>Without the Emperor, nobody important has anything to do in the throne room. Only some low-ranking servants visit the place but they are all shoo'd away by the rebels. The Chancellor flips his shit that nobody misses him and joins the rebellion.

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>>49309290
>Shiba Artisan feels his leadership challenged by the Chancellor. Throws a fit and issues a duel the Chancellor wins. A split grows in the ranks of the rebellion.
>Some Lily Clan rebels leave because they don't have beds and proper servants in the throne room. Shiba Artisan throws insults after them but then he asks for forgiveness when he realizes that the Lily Son didn't like the way he talked shit about his kin.
>Doji Artisan forges an alliance of convenience with the Chancellor against the Shiba Artisan, and the two starts conspiring to overtake the group.
>Feeling the heat, the Shiba Artisan gives a lengthy speech at the dusk of the second day. It is damn confusing tho, but the Kitsune Artisan totally gets it and breaks out in tears.
>During the night, the Shiba Artisan, the Lily Son, and the Kitsune Artisan almost have gay threesome on the Emerald Throne, but the Doji Artisan cockblocks them. Love drama ensues as the Shiba Artisan calls out the Doji Artisan on his shit. Lily Son defuses the situation by confessing his eternal love to the Doji Artisan.
>Seeing his plan falling apart, the Chancellor manipulates the Doji Courtier to seduce the Kitsune artisan and kill him. She can't do the killing part though and instead reveals the Chancellor's plotting to the party.
>Shiba Artisan uses the opportunity to oust the Chancellor from the rebellion and denote him to a hostage again.
>Random servant brings food and drink to the rebels, with a message that the palace servants are super-interested in how this will end. Shiba Artisan takes insult and shittalks the servant until she "accidentally" drops the supplies to the ground, spoiling them for the party.
>While everyone is busy with the servant and her shit, the Chancellor just simply walks away through a side door.
>When she notices that the Chancellor is gone, the Doji Courtier offers her surrender to the servant. The servant accepts her surrender, but the Shiba Artisan chases the girl away.

>>49308761
>the Crane let them create their own Minor Clan
>not having the emperor as the sole source of minor clans, because each time he says/does/asks something his sycophants get flustered by, they interpret it as a desire for a few dozen unlucky samurai to spend the rest of their lives doing thing.

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>>49309576
>Chancellor returns a few hours later with a squadron of Imperial Legionnaires. He specifically orders them to take the rebels alive so that he could torture them to death for their insolence.
>This breaks the Doji Artisan and he jumps out of a nearby window as an attempt of last-ditch escape. Lands in a garden and barely survives the impact.
>Fight happens, and the legionnaires easily defeat the rebels. The Kitsune Artisan almost dies, and the Doji Courtier surrenders, Two Lily Clan samurai (the two bushi in the whole group) dies while the others are either incapacitated or surrender.
>Shiba Artisan decides to commit sudoku with Lily Son being his second, rather than face defeat. He can't do it tho and collapses to the floor, crying.
>Legion Sergeant steps forward, challenges the Shiba Artisan to a duel to death. Lily Son appoints himself to the Shiba's champion and gets his head cut off by the sergeant in turn.
>The rebels break out in tears as one, wooing the death of the Lily Son. Shiba Artisan breaks down completely and faints from the powerful emotions he is experiencing.
>Party is unceremoniously thrown into a dungeon. They are intensively questioned (tortured) by everyone they messed with. The Black Watch is especially creative and they reduce the Kitsune Artisan into a wreck. Don't fuck with the Black Watch.
>Doji Courtier is freed by the Chancellor, and becomes his concubine as promised.
>Shiba Artisan becomes a shadow of his former self, gets his ass sentenced for treason, and is consequently exiled to the High Wastes to live among the Yonbanjin savages.
>Doji Artisan is cleared from all charges and joins the Lily Clan, eventually... uhm... marrying the Clan Champion's other son.
>Kitsune Artisan (or at least what remained from him) is dumped into a monastery, ready to be picked up by the next party!

THE END

>>49309590
In this setting, each and every Emperor was literally a divine-level badass who ascended to the throne by winning a tournament against other divine-level badasses. The only exception is the most recent Empress, Tsudao, who simply said that she was the Empress and everyone was fine with it... because she was a whole new level of divine badassry.

So yeah, make a guess. Things are working a lot different here than in canon Rokugan.

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>>49305079
>No d20 stats in the Secrets of the Clans books

Are you delusional or just stupid, anon?

>>49310973
>Things are working a lot different here than in canon Rokugan
That'd be the main reason I barely skimmed over your page of Not Quite Rokugan, rather than actually reading.

>>49311404
Why should he talk about d20 stats in the 2e books? There never has been d20 l5r. No siree.

>>49311512
>Things are working a lot different here than in canon Rokugan
>That'd be the main reason I barely skimmed over your page of Not Quite Rokugan, rather than actually reading.

That's funny because the adventure was pretty much a Canon Rokugan tier story set in Not Quite Rokugan.

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I plan to GM L5R 4th ed soon.

Which sourcebooks are worth reading?

>>49312347
All of them.
But Emerald Empire is a good start.

Imperial Archives has errata.
Imperial Histories (And IH2) has details on different eras.
Great Clans and Strongholds of the Empire has details on the different great clans.
Secrets of the Empire has details on the imperial families, the brotherhood of shinsei, and ronin
Enemies of the Empire has details on all the things that aren't normal Rokugani, including some more about Ronin
The Book of [Element] series has a lot of stuff related to their respective elements and the things that are conceptually linked to them.
Sword and Fan has details about war and politics. It's a little redundant after reading other books, but worth a look.
A couple of the setting books have mechanics, like Naishou Province having the Lion Elite Spearman school.

If you're just starting though, you should probably restrict players to Core mechanically, and the core great clan stuff at that unless you want to do a ronin game or something. Remember that everything else is "advanced" and not available unless the players ask and you specifically let them use it.

>>49312473
Oh, Secrets of the Empire also has stuff on the minor clans and the Spirit Realms.

>>49312347
All worth reading, but you prioritise when.

Core, Great Clans, Strongholds & Emerald Empire will be enough for the group (if Core alone isn't), and you can open up the five element books as the game goes on.

Keep Enemies of the Empire, Secrets, and Imperial Archives aside for the GM.

>>49312347
Enemies of the Empire, definitely.

The books of air/fire/water/earth/void come with their own unique setting ideas to borrow from in the last chapter, as well as some extra mechanics, but mostly look at the settings.

If you're unsure of what setting to run, Imperial Histories 1/2 are good. Imperial archives may give you some ideas, especially the lost clans, but aren't strictly worth it.

A


If you plan on running a game based around a single clan, reading their way of/secrets of help. They may not be mechanically important, but their fluff is still relevant and may give ideas.

Beyond that, it depends on the kind of game you wish to run.

>>49312521
This is a pretty good recommendation, and it's worth noting that even then there's some stuff in the GM books that is good for players to have access to-- stuff like the ronin school in Secrets or the new advantages or paths in Enemies. A lot of it is stuff that a gm could easily disallow, like the shapeshifter heritage stuff, but even so.

>>49312625
Only if ronin stuff is relevant to the game. We like to act like they're the most important thing here, but most games don't have even a single Ronin PC.

>>49312683
That's true, but are you suggesting withholding information about ronin options from players because likely as not they won't want play one anyway? Because so far the conversation has been
>These books are GM only.

>Actually, there's some stuff in there for players too.

I mean, the GM can always forbid ronin pcs, but that's very different from going "there's nothing to see here" and hoping your players won't pick ronin because you kept the good mechanics to yourself.

>>49312835
I'm suggesting that if Ronin aren't allowed or nobody wants to play one anyway, there's no reason to worry about their mechanics.

>>49312625
>stuff like the ronin school in Secrets or the new advantages or paths in Enemies
It's not bad, but a group can get a horrible surprise if they see the rank 1 ronin techs in core, pick one per PC for play, and then learn what's waiting for them at IR2.

Monks go the other way - they are treated differently to samurai (while Togashi & Asako Henshin "clan monks" don't have to be), and this can be difficult for a new GM.

It's easier to stick to great clans at first. Lion (know your Bushido tenets) and Crab (... actually, what brief advice would you give a Crab without making it sound like they can go overboard on being uncouth?) are probably the easiest.

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>>49312543
I was planning to use the Naishou Province as the setting for at least the beginning of the game. I think.

I have Secrets of the Empire so Minor clans are probably going to show up a bit.

That makes me wonder what's going on with the Fox minor clan though. I expected them to be in Secrets of the Empire, or are they just stuck in the Mantis as a family option?

>>49312873
I'm saying that unless ronin ARE disallowed, players should be allowed to look at their mechanics before deciding to play one or not. Even if they all decide not to, it should still be an informed decision.

>>49312918
I'd tell the Crab that while most Crab are seriously rude bastards, they don't have to be. Contempt for the courts is normal, but most Crab aren't stupid and can realize that it's important even when it's dull and wasteful. Court is a fight of another kind, and one of the Crab's biggest ideals is to always be prepared for a fight.
Also, they don't have to be a Yasuki to be a Crab diplomat if they want to be a Crab diplomat. The Hida, Hiruma, and Kuni all train diplomats (Hiruma even have a vassal family that performed that role before the Yasuki joined up), and the Kaiu and Toritaka aren't nearly as uncouth as the other families.

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>>49312968
I advise against Naishou Province, it is quite info-dumpy and somewhat poorly written for a beginner GM. Try Topaz Championship instead. It is the go-to first adventure in L5R.

>That makes me wonder what's going on with the Fox minor clan though. I expected them to be in Secrets of the Empire, or are they just stuck in the Mantis as a family option?

They are stuck with the Mantis.

>>49313057
The Crab Uncouthness Sale goes some thing like this:

Kuni >>> Hida > Hiruma = Yasuki > Kaiu = Toritaka.

>>49312968
The Fox as a minor clan are in the Core Book (And they have a different Family Bonus when they're a Minor Clan), but for the most part, you're only going to find info about them in Mantis sections or older edition books.

The Mantis tend to Yoritomo-wash all of their Families. It sucks.

>>49313072
If they're doing Topaz and the game is going to be more high powered than it otherwise might be, give everyone the Topaz Champ technique. If one PC gets it, it's kinda powerful. If everyone has it, you can ramp up the opposition.

>>49313072
Topaz Championship looks pretty great.

It seems like it might limit player characters a little though. Though if it's the introductory adventure, I suppose a time-skip afterwards isn't out of the question, to let the characters differentiate themselves and not all just be newly graduated samurai.

>>49313578
Characters entering the Topaz Championship are fully fledged starting characters, complete with the entire set of XP a character starts with, so if you have problems with them not being differentiated enough there, you'll have that problem with any normal start.

>>49313667
To be fair, with the Topaz Championship there's a tendency to focus on the skills that the competition is going to require, which can lead to a little more samey-ness than usual. It's not that 40pts isn't enough, but that everyone spends them more narrowly than they otherwise might if they didn't have a competition looming ahead.

I'd suggest anyone new get their hands on a Roll and Keep percentages table. Raising becomes a lot more viable once you can calculate the risk.

>>49314101
This is excellent advice.

Unless.

UNLESS.

Unless your group is made up of funny fuckers, and when they ask if you want in on a bunch of novelty l5r dice (which you agree to), they bake yours to consistently roll low.

Anyone here ever use The Lair for a campaign?

>>49315770
Nope. I've only ever used the spooky forest from the Book of Void. Nazo Mori, I think? Seems like it would either make for a very limited campaign or would have to be about re-integrating them to the rest of Rokugan, though. If we're talking about the clan that's been hiding in the mountains for centuries -- I think that's The Lair. There's a section in Nazo Mori also called The Lair, though.

>>49307993
Bayushi Yojiro.

don't have a scan.

>>49311404
>Are you delusional or just stupid, anon?
Follow the convo then figure out if that was a joke or not.

Moron.

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>>49317463
Do you not have the internet, either? Should we start a fund raiser for the anon posting on this Mongolian Kumis board via telegram?

>>49318955
>baka

>>49321078
that awful font for the numbers...

>>49285976
I remember, long ago on the AEG forums.
There was a discussion regarding the art of a particular Family daimyo. Maybe the Iuchi?
Anyway, she was reclining, and her kimono only seemed to reach about five inches past her waist.
Somebody then decided to do a little math and realized that the Daimyo in question was in her sixties, at least (She looked all of twenty, maybe), and that this seemed rather undignified for a Daimyo.
To which, a lady in the thread replied that, if she looked that good at sixty, she would never show less leg then that.
And we all had a good laugh, and then probably went back to bitching about the Shosuro.

>>49321321
Yup. That was L5R CCG way back when. No respect for anyone trying to read the damn cards.

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How do Tsuruchi archers play? Are they at a big disadvantage compared to traditional bushi?

>>49322018
Not really. They attack at range by default, and their Attack & ATN attribute is Reflexes - no need to buy up Fire unless they expect to run out of ammo. (in which case I'd say get Ninjutsu and throw rocks ... but that's not going to be for everyone)

>>49322018
Bows are really good.

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The book of Air has new archer classes and such right? I know Japan =/= Rokugan but it still makes sense to me that most Bushi should have at least some experience with archery. For the more war-minded clans at least.

>>49322122
Archery is actually one of the things that almost every samurai is expected to know.
Of course, what is expected and what is true are not the same things, but archery is usually the first thing a courtier looking for combat training goes to. It's elegant and meshes well with the air affinity of most courtiers.

>>49322122
Dedicated archer ranks are usually for elites. Every Hiruma can pick up a bow and use it, but only the true marksmen get trained in the Hiruma Sniper alt rank.
But yes, most bushi probably have some experience with it and every bushi school can and does teach it.

>>49322122
By the setting, bushi are trained to fight unarmed, with the daisho, bow, spear, and knives, and others clan by clan. PCs are commonly unusual in that they don't have as broad experience with weapons.

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>>49322122

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I can't see these things being easy to carry around all the time.

>>49322201
I think it's more that most bushi get the training, but only minimal amounts that might not "stick" enough to count as entire skill ranks.

Y'know, a few weeks of hand to hand combat training that will never actually come into play for most and soon gets forgotten under the net wave of intense training.

>>49322218
They carry them around unstrung, and often in the same quiver as their arrows. It's no more arduous than a stick.

>>49322218
>As used in English, yumi refers more specifically to traditional Japanese asymmetrical bows, and includes the longer daikyū (大弓) and the shorter hankyū (半弓)
Would that count as a yumi or daikyu in Rokugan?

>>49322295
Does l5r distinguish between them?

>>49311404
Paneki deserved better.

>>49322578
Yes, yes it does.

Daikyu > Yumi > Hankyu

>>49322578
Yes. The Dai-kyu has a hefty penalty when used off of horseback, and the han-kyu and yumi have the same penalty if used on horseback.
There's little mechanical reason to use a han-kyu, but it is a "small" weapon as opposed to "medium" or "large" which can be helpful sometimes.

>>49322218
>Wearing tit armor while using a bow

Wise decision.

>>49322717
Yeah. Those outfits are comfy as fuck

>>49322731

It's not that; it's that getting smacked across the chops with a bowstring is unbelievably painful.

>>49322930
Of course.

And from the videos / photos I've seen, guys tend to abandon their sleeve and go half topless. A string across the nip has to be the worst.

>>49322973
A string across the nips has a tendency to take the nips with it. And nobody wants bloody gashes where their nips used to be.
Same is true for wrist skin.

>>49323004
And also fingers!
Google bowstring injury for some real nasty shit. Some of what comes up is arrows, not the bowstring itself, but that's obvious.

>>49285976
Aside from the fact that the CCG came first

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Are there any canon examples of characters without vaginas joining the Utaku battle maidens and getting the sweet horse?

>>49323122
Literally none. Not only do they not accept men, neither do the horses. The emperor has a number of Utaku Steeds just for prestige's sake.

>>49323122

Toku had one, if memory serves.

Is that ever explained? Do they not like man-smell?

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>>49323444
The Battle Maidens are really possessive when it comes to their special snowflake horses.

>>49323593
The horses are also intelligent and don't like it.

>>49323713
Yeah, the Magical Boss Horse gave his permission specifically to the Battle Maidens to be able to ride his Magical Horse kin, so there might be something.

Tho, as >>49323213 said Toku also had an Otaku Steed.

So you're saying that a girlyboy unicorn with perfume couldn't convince a horse?

>>49323763
>Toku also had an Otaku Steed
Got any support?

>>49323872
It is mentioned in one of the Twelve Ronin stories and maybe in Way of the Wolf too. But maybe I remember wrong, it was a long time ago when I did my Toku research.

>>49323981
Yeah, I found reference on Kaze No Shiro.

Fuck ... AEG went above and beyond in fellating Toku.

Also, I've looked through the index but can't see anything obvious. Which clans have Naginata schools?

>>49323981
>>49324061
Way of the Wolf says it was from an Otaku magistrate. So Toku had an Otaku steed but not necessarily an Otaku warhorse and that's what I'm going to believe.

The Otaku are the finest horse breeders in the Unicorn and they don't breed the warhorses exclusively. It was probably a Unicorn riding horse like what half their schools get in their starting equipment.

Him having a battle maiden's warhorse would be stupid as fuck. The first time a Unicorn recognized it for what it was, they'd probably question and demand its return if not kill him outright if it was another battle maiden that found out. Even AEG isn't that stupid.

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How would you stay her?

>>49324601
Stat.>>49268488
>How would you stay her?
Stat*

>>49324601
With a strongly worded letter to her daimyo and a little bit of blackmail. That ought to stay her, whatever it was she was doing.

>>49324601
Probably a Shiba Bushi. She uses a polearm, but given how she managed to stay still long enough to have a photo taken, and the absence of arterial blood on her, she cannot be a Matsu.

>>49323766
It's pretty silly. Personally I find the whole concept of gender locked classes dumb (and usually fetishy). I'd let someone play a dude, though it would still be so unusual that he'd be dealing with ridicule.

>>49323763
Magical Boss Horse?

>>49326582
The Magical Boss Horse who was the god or something of the Magical Horses (later Otaku Steeds) when that Otaku chick rescued them from the evil undead wizards.

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Does it seem like too big of a leap In-universe that the Fox Clan might want to separate themselves from the Unicorn now that they aren't on the verge of being annihilated?

What would this mean for the larger empire? I'm sure it'd be seen as dishonourable for the clan to break their oaths of fealty, but could the Mantis actually declare war on them without getting an Imperial slap?

>>49329088
Considering how the Lion approach the Dragonfly, and how the Crane approach the Yasuki, I'm guessing that the Mantis would come down hard and fast on the Fox and only their political enemies would bring it up as a topic.
The Mantis would take a temporary hit to their self-proclaimed "friend to minor clans" reputation and that'd be the end of it.

>>49329088

Well, that's what happened when the Yasuki joined the Crab.

>>49324311

His bio in Way of the Wolf states that he gave Unicorn lands a wide berth for that very reason.

Would a samurai undergoing a warrior's pilgrimage be considered ronin or samurai for rules ?

>>49329687
For character creation? Use normal samurai rules.

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Do Youkai show up in Enemies of the Empire? Yuki-Onna and the like.

Has anyone tried building adventures around dealing with them?

>>49329088

The problem is that the Fox has too many friends (Unicorn) and there are too many people (Scorpion) who are interested in keeping the Fox as the Fox and not a component part of the Mantis.

Then, of course, warring with the Fox might send the wrong kind of message to the other "component clans" and can easily disintegrate the Mantis at which point they might wave their Great Clan status goodbye too. That's just too much hustle for too little, but it is the Mantis, so it is "whatever" I guess.

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>>49330322
>Do Youkai show up in Enemies of the Empire?

They do but there aren't much about them.

>Has anyone tried building adventures around dealing with them?

One of the GMs in my gaming group did but then the single shugenja PC solved everything by warding down the ghost and communing with it until it finally revealed its exact problem.

So I guess if you want a ghost story then ban shugenjas from the party.

>>49330322
>>49331197

L5R is more akin to Game of Thrones with Samurai and less porn as far as actual plot structure.

>>49332722
>less porn
Not according to certain artists.

>>49321321
>>49321385

dude, i loved how zany over-the-top the cards were.

with under powered stats and abilities.

Out of interest, what would a boss encounter in your l5r game look like?

Do you prefer bosses to be more social beasts to outmaneuver, a figure with high quality guards, shugenja, or less human bosses?

>>49329321
Sorry, I missed that, but it doesn't make things any less retarded if they actually intended him to have an Otaku warhorse.

Even assuming he managed to avoid any Unicorn samurai the entire time he was traveling, didn't the Unicorn help Toturi's Army at Beiden Pass? Wouldn't someone have noticed it then?

I could see the other maybe getting a pass if Toturi was on-hand to help explain the events and vouch for the boy, but not a warhorse. It cheapens the setting to make such a ridiculous exception.

>>49334141
Considering how dangerous they are to own, he's probably never taken it outside of Monkey lands. As bad as it is for a non-shiotome to own one, for a non-shiotome to actually *ride* one into battle is even worse.

>>49334334
Toku rode it into the Second Day Of Thunder, where it died. He then found Sanzo's horse some time later.

>>49334376
Oh.
Well that's retarded then.

>>49334383
Toku was kind of always a bit of a Gary Stu, so pretty much anything involving him is going to be at least a little retarded.

>>49334766
At least they didn't make him Yoritomo (Mighty is He) the second.

>>49337139
The only thing he's missing is the inexplicable and completely unjustified divinity.

>>49337581
Well, he's also missing the penchant for absorbing and stepping on other minor clans. The Monkey clan is pretty much irrelevant outside of stories focused on them.

>>49330371
It would involve the Mantis marching througj Crane lands which would produce issues of its own.

I suppose I just find it a bit dumb how the Mantis, out on the islands, have dominion over clans who are out of their reach and could side with the Crane or Scorpion who they're sat between.

Do we know if ffg plan to do anything with the rpg yet, other than make money on pdf sales?

>>49334141

I don't disagree with you, although you could argue that it's ameliorated somewhat by the fact that he could never ride it well (stopping being a major hurdle in particular).

Anyone feeling that the 40 starting xp are not enough ? It costs me ~30 points to buy and raise to 2 all the skills a samurai is supposed to know (Etiquette, Knowledge Bushido, A musical instrument, Poetry, Knoweledge History, Calligraphy and Tea Ceremony), and that leaves me with barely any points to raise attributes or increase my battle skills. So it seems I either have to.
>Focus on Bugei skills but not even being proficent in a great deal of stuff a samurai is supposed to know, and probably mess up at least half the social encounters.
>Be a bushi with sub-par combat skills.

>>49339275
You shouldn't be raising so many skills to start off. Get 2-3 attributes to 3, instead, along with the 2 attributes you get from your family & school.

>>49334141
>It cheapens the setting to make such a ridiculous exception.

Dude, ridiculous exceptions that "cheapen" the setting are the bread-and-butter of L5R storytelling. It is just how Rokugan are.

>>49339275
Don't get everything to 2.
Get a couple of your important skills to 2-3, some of the other expected skills to 1 (I would suggest you only pick one or two of "musical instrument, poetry, calligraphy, and tea ceremony" to start with), then focus on Attributes and Advantages.
Tea Ceremony in particular is only essential if you're a yojimbo or dedicated court duelist.

>>49339370
>Tea Ceremony in particular is only essential if you're a yojimbo or dedicated court duelist.
Or it's your chosen method of recouping Void Points.

>>49339275

When you're creating a character you want to prioritize advantages that you can't get in play, then attributes, then skills. That said, 40xp is rather low and incentivizes taking ten points worth of disadvantages.

>>49339275
Just remember that an extra kept die is roughly equal to two extra rolled dice.
So prioritize Awareness 3 over every social skill to 2. 4k3 is better than 4k2, after all.

>>49339447
>to two extra rolled dice.
two or three, depending on exactly where you are on the spectrum.

I read about Foxwives on the l5r wiki. Are there any half-fox samurai types out there? It's pretty special snowflake but I'm curious.

>>49339480
Yes, there's an entire clan/family of them.
It's not as snowflakey as you might think, since most half-human, half-[other] end up far more human than [other].
If your mom was a foxwife, the best you're getting is a closer connection to nature and a pretty face.

>>49339509
So it's pretty much covered by taking the kitsune shujenga school?

>>49339275
There are two main tricks to getting the most out of exp:
1)You should always take 10exp of disadvantages. I know it seems like a bad move at first, but trust me. Always take 10exp of disadvantages.

2) Generally, a bushi is expected to cruise at a low level in social encounters with the minimal social skills - generally, you only need Etiquette and maybe lore:Bushido. Courtiers/Artisans are supposed to excel at social situations, since often they'll be making gifts/deals which effect the clans in a major way.

>>49339529
If you're a member of the Kitsune family and a shugenja, yeah.
Members of the school have to seriously work at honing that ability, which is why it's a Technique tied to a specific school.

Other foxwife-spawn can take a variety of Advantages to represent whatever they might have inherited.
Inner Gift: Animal Ken, Touch of the Spirit Realms: Chikushudo, Dangerous Beauty, ect.

>>49339532
Lore: Bushido is your common sense "What Would Akodo Do?" skill. It's also good for checking the guy you're talking to isn't a scumbag, but not reliable to roll for most new characters.

Lore: Heraldry is useful in social situations. Despite the great / minor clan mons being well known, there are also dojo mon, military mon, and everyone who is anyone also has a personal mon.

Sincerity is also worth taking; it's the skill that lets people think you're not just saying what they want to hear. (regardless of whether you are or not, or telling the truth or not)

>>49339557
Child Of Chikushudo gives the most direct and recent ancestral relation to the animal spirit realms (for better and worse), while Medium offers the ability to spiritually visit other realms.

>>49339642
>Lore: Bushido is your common sense "What Would Doji Do?" skill.

Fixed it for you.

>>49339878
Nah.
>Literally meaning "way of the warrior"
Doji did the cultural stuff, but the warrior stuff was Akodo through and through.

>>49339984
Akodo was a lot more pragmatic than bushido would dictate, and most of his writings have been bastardized in modern Rokugan to be more honorable.

>>49340025
Akodo literally invented Bushido

>>49339984
The Bushido all Rokugani uses is a highly censored and watered down version of the original, courtesy to Doji and the stupid-ass Hantei emperors she produced.

Akodo's Bushido has little in common with the Rokugani Bushido. In fact I doubt it could even work in the Rokugani society proper.

>>49340216
Kinda like how samurai in Japan were all about fucking each over as hard as possible, murdering each others hostage relatives, and burning down rival's castles with them still inside them during the actual warring periods, but once shit quieted down people toned that shit way down and espoused maximum honorabru behavior?

>>49325075
underrated post

>>49340216
>The Bushido all Rokugani uses is a highly censored and watered down version of the original, courtesy to Doji and the stupid-ass Hantei emperors she produced.
Even so, Rokugan varies on exactly how much what they say is what they do, versus how much is lip service to what they think others want to hear.

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>>49340257
>toned that shit way down and espoused maximum honorabru behavior

Actually, they became violent hobos and wandering marauders. So only the scale changed, but it was still all the old shit all over again. Until the Restoration came and they were retconned into honorable people.

By the way, IRL Bushido wasn't even really a thing until... I dunno... the 19th century if I remember correctly? And even then the IRL Bushido is even more far away from Akodo's Bushido than the Rokugani one.

What, did you think that John Wick got this one even distantly right?

>>49340385
>Actually, they became violent hobos and wandering marauders.
I was thinking more about the various daimyo and samurai that ranked high enough to have to spend half the year in the capital and the like. They were all about adhering to rigid politeness and ideals in order to try to appear better at it and one up each other.

For the lower rungs it was as you say. No other skills and often with too much pride to do anything else.

>By the way, IRL Bushido wasn't even really a thing until... I dunno... the 19th century if I remember correctly?

That's just not true, though. You might be thinking of Nitobe's work in the 19th century, but numerous samurai and Japanese philosophers had written various topics on how samurai should behave, bukyo, shido, and other things for centuries even if they hadn't all come up with a joint list of necessary virtues and sometimes conflicted with one another i.e. Kato Kiyomasa banning poetry cause it was for fags.

>>49340385
>What, did you think that John Wick got this one even distantly right?
Well, yeah. He did a great job on creating a mangled westernised fantasy samurai game.

>>49340385
Hagakure was 17th century and that certainly wasn't the first text regarding bushido.

>>49340574
Oh, hello John Wick.

>>49340577
Jamamoto was considered a rambling, senile old man in his time period and nobody took him seriously (in fact, his own lord disliked him a lot). At least until they dug up his work before WW2 and made it the be-all end-all guide to samurai honor.

>>49340727
Hilarious, anon, but no.

I'm just not up for the pretence of saying L5R was ever meant to be accurate to Japan. Right from the beginning they were picking 'Toturi' for ease of use over Toyoturi or whatever the original (accurate) name was, and that's just scratching the surface.

>>49340822
>I'm just not up for the pretence of saying L5R was ever meant to be accurate to Japan.

You gotta admit, this is a pretty weak excuse for having a setting that is quite like a special snowflake western fantasy world but with poorly-researched (and most likely poorly understood) samurai/oriental themes duck-taped onto it in a way that speaks about much more enthusiasm than actual sense (or consistency for that matter).

>>49332763

Which artists? Post proof (or at least links).

>>49339275

You aren't wrong, insofar as there's a disconnect between the fluff (especially the 1e fluff) and the actual mechanics. Speaking purely mechanically, everything everyone else has said is entirely correct; only raise a couple of non-bugei skills to 2, get 2-3 of your attributes to 3, etc.

With that said, there *is* a disconnect there. Generally speaking, a rating of 2 is "competent" at a certain skill, and it does make sense with the fluff for a samurai - even a bushi - to be at least competent in pretty much everything you listed. The problem with increasing the starting CP values is that people will take those extra points and buy extra combat-relevant advantages almost exclusively.

If you're the GM, or just starting a game (so you can still ask this of the group), my preferred solution is to increase all School Skills by 1 rank for starting characters (ie, getting Kenjutsu 1 becomes Kenjutsu 2), and all schools get one extra Artisan skill at Rank 2 as well (ie, all samurai have at least 1 artistic skill). However, the starting skills cap for School skills is still 3, and starting skills cap for non-school skills is still 2. This doesn't give people a ton of extra CP so they can pump up combat skills or their attributes, but it still allows you to save some points you would have spent to increase your school skills from 1->2. Mechanically, the difference between having your school skills at a 2 (base) instead of a 1 (base) is minimal, but it makes everybody at the table FEEL better about their characters, because since they're at rank 2, they feel like their character is at least competent in the stuff their school taught them.

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>>49339275
>>49341038

Over here we have every samurai start with 9 Basic Skills (Athletics, Calligraphy, Etiquette, Jiujutsu, Kenjutsu, Kyujutsu, Lore: Bushido, Lore: Character's Great Clan, Yarijutsu), 1 Clan Skill (a Skill related to the character's Great Clan like Battle for Lion and Defense for Crab), and 5 School Skills. Then every samurai has the Advantage of having a "virtual" Rank in every Skill (like Sage or crab Hands).

This setup tends to fix the starting competency level problem just fine. For encouraging taking Skills we have crazy Skill Mastery Abilities that can create mind-blowing wombo combos with certain abilities.

>>49340990
However you feel about it, they saw that high accuracy wasn't going to sell as well. So they didn't go with it.

>>49341230
The reason why they went with shit accuracy was because JW is an arrogant hack. Bushido, a "high-accuracy" samurai RPG sold quite well even though it had a shit system.

>>49341393
Well, you're free to believe what you want, but I'm not going to follow you down that particular path.

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How do you GMs write your NPCs up. Do you put in effort fleshing them out and hope that the PCs actually notice them, or just do the minimum and then flesh out npcs that get noticed?

>>49342964
A little of column A, a little of column B. I'm putting together a Topaz championship run for a my group of first-timers, and the npcs I plan on reusing are more fleshed out than the npcs I anticipate only having for the duration of the tournament. If the group ends up latching on to one of those other characters, though, they'll get more fleshed out too.

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Would a scorpion dressed like this not immediately make people suspicious that she's up to something? I mean on top of the fact that she's a scorpion to begin with.

>>49343390
A scorpion dressed like that would immediately make people wonder why a brazen whore was let in and why the scorpion samurai present don't take offense to her wearing a mask and their colors.
Bitch doesn't even have a wakizashi.

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>>49343390

She's dressed exactly how Scorpion women are SUPPOSED to be dressed, so people wouldn't be unusually suspicious at all.

>there are two possible Rokugans, one which is fluff-accurate, and one which is art-accurate. The second one is objectively better.

>>49344337
I disagree heavily.

>>49344362

Well, I disagree with your disagreement.

Good thing that it's a big enough world we can both have our respective opinions and both of us can still have fun in our respective versions of Rokugan, right?

>>49344721
No.
You are badwrongenzoman.

>>49344721
>both of us can still have fun in our respective versions of Rokugan, right?

This is incorrect. If you're having fun the wrong way, it keep me from having my fun. So stop being wrong. Rokugani women showing wrists or ankles (or more) are courtesans at best and whores at worst. Full stop.

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>>49343390
Step aside filthy casuals, best Scorpion Girl is coming through.
>Bayushi Approved(tm) face mask
>Long, raven-black hair
>Darker skin
>Pragmatic robes that can be pulled back to reveal skin or offer freedom of movement
>Messing with stupid Crane playboy from the shadows with cool and sneaky magic and not by whoring herself out

Am I the only one left a little underwhelmed by the elemental magic in the core? It looks to 90% be buffs of different flavours. Do the ring books make it any better?

>>49347528
Shugenja are OP as is. Don't ask for buffs.

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>"Steve Argyle artwork is the objectively correct depiction of Rokugani women" bump

>>49347528
>It looks to 90% be buffs of different flavours.

You say this like it isn't bad enough... But the few offensive spells are absolute BS tier because of the spell mechanics, so personally, I don't have a problem with having only a few of them.

>>49347528
That's kind of the point.
Imagine stacking a bunch of those delicious buffs on the bushi in front of you, and then watching as they blenderize the enemies.

Shugenja work best when they're pumping a bushi, who is guarding the shugenja (Or at least placing themselves between the shuggie and the enemy). Yeah, they can drop the hurt, but most buffs last longer and end up better overall.

>>49347538
Sorry, not underwhelmed in the sense of underpowered. Moreso that a lot of the spells just seem like different flavoured buffs. I guess I expected more creatively offensive uses of the elements. I should probably reread them.

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>>49347540
Yep.

>>49347623
There's only so many ways you can blast someone.
But there's a ton of fiddly little things you can increase for buffs.

Steve Argyle and Genzoman are a blight.

>>49348080

Nobody brought Genzo into this but you.

And if you're equating Argyle and Genzo as being the same, then you're fucking insane.

>>49348155
Genzo has plastic people.

Argyle has blurry people.

They're both shit.

>>49348168
Difference is that Genzo has never not been inappropriate for L5R.

>>49348155
They're both garbage-tier artists who are incapable of drawing a woman with realistic proportions and/or non-slutty clothing.

>>49348336

>Implying this is a bug and not a feature

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I admit this might be a bit much.

>>49350524
>>49350544
>>49350570

God, look at this garbage.

>>49352542
Wouldn't have to look at it, if you hadn't bumped the thread. They're pretty good as far as l5r art goes, too.

i just wish the standard art for this game wasn't garbo. :\

>>49353091
Yeah, well ... when you fund it, I'll happily look at it.

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Are Crane all just naturally pretty down to genetics, or is this just how they're drawn?

>>49355368
>Are Crane all just naturally pretty down to genetics

Basically this. Crane are just pretty as a baseline (with the *actually* beautiful ones being devastatingly beautiful compared to the other Clans), and an ugly one is vanishingly rare. That screams either genetics or maho.

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>>49355368
No. Though commonly yes.

So half Bayushi / Crane must be the most beautiful things.

Is it feasible that a child held hostage by a clan as part of a treaty would be trained in one of their schools? Perhaps if they were handed over at a young age, FE:Fates style.

>>49355501
>and an ugly one is vanishingly rare.
Implying they don't shuffle the ugly ones off to some unheard of backwater the moment they pass their gempukku. If they're swans and get less homely as they get a bit older, they're 'promoted' and brought back in the fold. Most, however, are stuck in the Village of the Uglies(不細工の村) forever and forbidden to reproduce.

>>49355752
this is canon now.

>>49355625

That's actually one of the best ways to justify taking the Different School advantage.

>>49355625
Depends on how tense relations are between the clans. If they're good, it's possible, but your family is going to be spending favours to make it happen. Then again, maybe your family doesn't have that much clout to throw around anyway.

If there's a chance agreements won't hold up, that means you might be killed at any moment and no one is going to waste effort on you. (better luck next life)

>>49355921
I can't imagine they would just refuse to train a hostage at all. They might not get their choice of schools or teachers, but they would have to do something with them. If things work out and the hostage is the returned and the first thing they report is that they were refused any training in the necessary duties of a samurai, that clan has a brand new excuse to go to war.

"Haha, yeah, we decided not to continue his education cause we figured we might kill him later. No hard feelings, right?"

At the least I'd have them trained by a 'special sensei' and let them have ranks in a ronin school or something and proper skills.

Cue the Shosuro brainwashing and using the hostage as a sleeper agent once they return home.

>>49356014
... sorry mate, I guess the material I've read hasn't given me the same sunshine and flowers outlook on being a hostage yours has. Lian Hearn's Otori Tales and Musashi spring to mind.

The threat from both sides is, "If you don't behave, we kill your guy." The expectation is that you'll treat the hostage respectfully, but the reality of how these things go down without a decent case scenario is somewhat different.

They can pick up skills and train as much as they want, but unless you really welcome them into the clan or their clan sends a sensei, teaching them secret techniques probably won't happen.

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Perhaps this should be it's own thread, but is there anyone around who'd want to play in a game a newb gm, Gmt evenings, saturday, sunday or friday? Probably using a mix of IRC and then roll20 for combat.

>>49356124
This'd be a good place for it, actually - L5R is one of those games where lots of people want to play, but not many take the time to GM.

Well, in the next thread maybe.

>>49356117
I get what you're saying, but Rokugan is not sengoku-era Japan where half the time hostages got killed whenever it was convenient or someone threw a temper tantrum. They hold themselves to higher moral standards and there are literal gods that will have them spend their next life as a shit-shoveling peasant if they don't conduct themselves properly.

I'm not saying hostages are never killed, or that they're automatically invited to join elite schools, but depending on the prestige of the hostage they should at least be afforded some training. I get the sekrit technique thing, but given the sheer size of the great clans, there has to already be folks on the enemy side that have some knowledge of those techniques. Ideally, they're held to not divulge any of that information cause muh honor, but I'm not going to claim that's actually true. As a result, I don't really see a problem in a hostage learning the first rank of their host's school if they're at an age where they are expected to learn their own and Doji Kuwanan serves as an in-canon example.

I'd also expect the host to afford the hostage a proper gempukku ceremony, but maybe that's more sunshine and flowers. From a practical standpoint in Rokugan, why would you not want to have someone who would otherwise be an enemy think fondly of and feel indebted to you?

>>49356124
>Game run by a newb gm is what a meant.

>>49356190
>They hold themselves to higher moral standards
Yeah ... they don't, though. I mean, 90% of Rokugan says it does/wants to, but most of those just want to do well in this life and will fail to be super honourable (rank 9-10) if it's easier to just be sorta honourable. (rank 4-5)

> and there are literal gods that will have them spend their next life as a shit-shoveling peasant if they don't conduct themselves properly.
Exactly how much that will be parcelled out to any given action isn't really defined for samurai in-setting. They're already samurai; so long as they're relatively honourable, they probably aren't going to not be samurai next life. There are, after all, whole clans whose honour is absolutely horrifying compared to the Lion or Crane, and even their average isn't rank 9-10. It's rank 6-7.

>I'd also expect the host to afford the hostage a proper gempukku ceremony
That's assuming they do pre-gempukku hostages. It's actually quite neatly tied up if they don't - no gempukku needed, and they have their school's basic training.

>why would you not want to have someone who would otherwise be an enemy think fondly of and feel indebted to you?
It's interesting you bring that up, because in the ideal Rokugan, how the hostage feels about their captors is irrelevant to their duty, should it come to that. In the other Rokugan, samurai can also resent forced sense of obligation.

>>49356293
Off the top of my head, I can't actually think of any Rokugani hostages, other than Hida (nee Mirumoto) Sozen and the Crab that became a Dragon and didn't feature in anywhere near as many tournament wins.

>>49356444
Even the kids have the masks. That's cute

>>49356478
Yeah ... either that kid is post gempukku, or it's artistic license.

I'm imagining the face on a distressed Crab clan father upon realising the Crane have raised his son as a pretty boy courtier instead of a tough bushi.

>>49356633
Chances are most Crane/Crab hostage exchanges specifically send the Crab to the Daidoji.

>>49356756
I can't imagine the Crab having much choice. Besides, they probably need well trained courtiers more than anything.

>>49357031
I can't imagine you have much imagination by this point, mate.

>>49356510
It is tongue-in-cheek humor. The little chick is the daughter of the Lion dude. Her Lion blood is strong tho so she went full samurai even as a Scorpion hostage... well, at least as far as being samurai is concerned when it comes to the Scorpion (mask and mini-wakizashi).

Considering the nature of arranged marriages and the like I'm assuming that people might not care too much, but is it covered anywhere how the Rokugani feel about homos? Personally I think I'd play it as people being somewhat uncaring as long as it doesn't get in the way of a Samurai doing their duty. Perhaps those around them might be a bit more suspicious of affairs but that'd be it.

>>49357552
Probably pretty don't ask, don't tell. Rokugani beards are a noble profession.

>Perhaps those around them might be a bit more suspicious of affairs but that'd be it.
Why? Just curious.

>>49357761
If they're in an arranged marriage but it's known they're gay, I think it's reasonable their family etc might think they're more likely to have affairs.

>>49357808
Ahh. Gotcha.

Just not sure how often it would be known.

>>49357552
remember, romantic love is treated as an ideal, not a goal
they consider it a somewhat tragic, poetic beauty when someone always ends up in a loveless marriage because he/she cannot marry someone they would love
and the less artistically minded rokugani don't really care as long as more babies are made to continue the family/clan/imperial legacy

>>49357761
>don't ask, don't tell
This. If you're married and have kids, no one cares what you do to your yojimbo in private.

>>49358507
>they consider it a somewhat tragic, poetic beauty
That's what I've read about true love.
>True love in Rokugan can be a wonderful experience, but more often than not it is a disaster, for it is rare for samurai to be allowed to marry for love.

>>49358541
>it is rare for samurai to be allowed to marry for love

I laugh every time I read this.
>living life completely, fully, wonderfully
Heh...