Kaladesh Spoiler Thread

>>49264101
Lackluster.

I really expected them to spoil the red Gearhulk at last but they barely spoiled anything!, what was it, 3 rares, 3 uncommons total?, That's not much to talk about.

When will we have the full spoiler?, This monday or next?

File: Wait, wheres Kiran.png (677KB, 750x550px) Image search: [Google]

677KB, 750x550px

>>49264101
Im going to fling my thopter onto everything!
[Spoiler]Of course i'll also disintegrate him in your face![/spoiler]

>>49264429
Next Friday, I believe.

>>49264101
Shouldn't adding red to murder make it strictly worse since red is the color of being strictly worse than black?

>>49264101
If I don't get a good planeswalker kill spell like dreadbore or Heroes Downafall I'm taking a break from standard

>>49264938
Being paired with other colors or artifacts is when Red is allowed to be good.

>>49264101

I called BR control being a thing and this is slotting perfectly into my vessel brew.

>4 chandra
>4 vessel
>3 Lili
>2 ob
>some combo of live fast / die young
>collective defiance / brutality


I'd there a program I can use to play test with kaladesh spoilers or should I proxy some cards.

>>49264101

>if you control an artifact

Do they truly believe a RB1 card that kills a creature and deals 3 damage to its controller would be too OP without this condition?

>>49266984
yes

>>49266943
are you trolling, because most of those cards are good and Vessel is the awful and makes your deck strictly worse.
Or are you just being dumb.

>>49266943
>All the gud red and black walkers, together with as much removal as possible
so you just want to ult all your walkers?

>wah i wanna play with no creatures so I can interact with my opponents cards without them being able to interact with mine :(((((((

you'll get your draw-go control back when other colors besides U can interact with spells on the stack

>>49267848
Why do other colours need to interact with the stack? Where's blue's faceburn? Where's blue's removal? Where's blue's big efficient creatures? Oh wait those are what OTHER colours do.

>>49268165
>Comparing normal mechanics to blue having an entire part of the game to itself.
Self-unaware blue players everyone.

Blue being the only one to play with the stack is like making black the only color that can touch the graveyard, white the only color that can fly, and red the only color that gets non-counterspell instants while everything else has to make due with sorceries.

>>49268251
An entire part to itself? Fuck right off. Counterspells are literaly just removal for any spell that are dead if the card has already resolved. A hand full of counters won't save you from a board of creatures. Blue isn't getting some magical win-all tool with counterspells.

>>49266943
temur+tainted strike is a modern ready combo

File: torrentialgearhulk.jpg (52KB, 265x370px) Image search: [Google]

52KB, 265x370px

>>49268165
>Wheres blue removal?
>Wheres blues faceburn?
Psionic Blast - 2u Psionic Blast deals 4 damage to target creature or player and 2 damage to you.
Where's blues big efficient creatures?
Pic related

there are more eficient creatures like sphinx'es or leviathan's, and more face-burn / removal in blue, just google for it.

>>49268302
Counterspells, spell redirection, and general stack control is all just for blue. That's an entire area of the game, just like the battlefield, graveyard, or Exile

>>49268375
I didn't say big creatures, I said efficient ones. You're literally complaining that counterspells are too good when blue noncreatures see almost no play in standard.

File: 1473466039290.jpg (92KB, 612x612px) Image search: [Google]

92KB, 612x612px

>>49268435
>Where's blue's big efficient creatures?
you literally asked for big creatures. there a a enormous amount of small efficient creatures in blue too, but im not gonna look them up for you, since its 5 in the morning here, and im tired.
also I never complained about counterspells being too good, i just provided examples of the things you said blue's not having.

>>49268302
different guy, but interacting with the stack isn't necessary, but playing with no permanents other than land means that you can't be interacted with outside of Blue and Black. Black because of discard.

Blue can, and does, get counterspells, but they aren't cheap and easy enough that they can prevent interaction.
Combo is still allowed, and happens, but it uses permanents. Control exists (it's not go enough to compete in the current standard meta, but that shifts. It's been less than a year, calm your tits).
Control doesn't get to say that the other side can't interact back. That's why they give it sorceries, planeswalkers, etc. So you have to occasionally do things on your turn, so the opponent has a chance to interact.

>>49264101
>3cmc instant to destroy target creature and bolt a player or planeswalker
Good card

>>49268435

just off the top of my head for efficient blue creatures (not talking about standard):
Tromokratis (7 mana for 8/8 with upside)
Consecrated Sphinx (6 mana for 4/6 flier with huge upside)
Docent of perfection (5 mana for 5/4 flier with upside)

Blue is the only color besides some cards in red that has access to the stack. Negate is an amazing card and blue players are spoiled enough with busted cards to complain that such a powerful card isnt good enough

every color should have something like negate that can respond to abilities or spells on the stack, which would make the game better by adding more complexity for each color

there's a huge reason why blue is the best color in the game by far, and counterspells are a huge part of that

>>49268502
Which is why standard has been broken for the last few years. This year it's 40% Company, last year it was 40% Meme Rhino. This shit makes the UWx control of RTR-THS look like a fun balanced deck.

>>49268597
easy solution: give counterspells or things like counterspells to each color

then we can play control in any color we want

blue will have their tempo/card advantage strategies because of their card draw, and other colors get to interact with decks that don't run any permanents

easy solution

>>49268569
>Tromokratis (7 mana for 8/8 with upside)
Saw no play, was a laughing stock.
>Consecrated Sphinx (6 mana for 4/6 flier with huge upside)
Was printed like 6 years ago nigger what the fuck.
>Docent of perfection (5 mana for 5/4 flier with upside)
Sees no play.

And are you SERIOUSLY saying that Negate is somehow warping blue? It's a limited 1 for 1. Did you start playing in BFZ or something holy shit.

>>49268670
HAHA AND WE CAN GIVE THOUGHTSEIZE TO WHITE AND BURN SPELLS TO GREEN

LOL MAGIC XDDDD

>>49268687
>Thinking whether or not they see tournament play means they're not efficient.

>>49268670
That said, you're pretty stupid about this too.

>>49268670
Well, red has redirection and copying, green has uncounterable... give white more tax counters and black is the only color without stack interaction, and given the other things black has access to that seems fair enough to me.

>>49268687
you asked for efficient creatures, I gave you efficient creatures

the fact that efficient creatures don't see play says more about the busted nature of the color than anything else, insofar that it can win by playing almost no permanents, which is incredibly safe due to how difficult it is to interact with

negate is not warping blue, it's just an example of a card that every other color would kill to have, but blue players dismiss it because they are so spoiled in their options of being able to say "no" to whatever spell they want

>>49268746
>given the other things black has access to
Like its complete inability to interact with artifacts or enchantments?

t: salty mono black EDH player

>>49268597
40% of a field being a deck isn't that terrible. Not the best, but under 50% is normal. Caw-blade was a broken standard. Affinity was a broken standard. What's going on now is being subpar.

Right now the other part is Ramp, and delirium decks which are on more controlling midrange decks.

And While Rhino was really good, control decks existed in that format and one tournaments.

And even as you pointed out, the distortion was caused by a view overpushed cards, not because draw-go isn't pushed as an archetype. Dominant Draw-go makes it harder for their to be varied responses to it.


>>49268670
no, that's the bad solution. Control has worked in recent years, and it's used counterspells in recent years.

>>49268765
I was thinking more discard and creature-kill, the former especially (Gets rid of the spells a step earlier than counters do), though, I'll admit that that's a fair point.

So... increase the umber of discard spells black gets while we're at it, make it a party.

>>49268746
uncounterable is just as bad. it just mindlessly prevents interaction from blue cards, but blue still has tuck effects and bounce so it's not all that bad

>>49268729
it was just an off the top of the head suggestion. just give the other colors some way to interact with cards on the stack

>>49268718
white already has disruption for cards in the hand in terms of its tax effects

specifically referring to the stack, an area of the game that only U and specific cards in R have the ability to touch unlike every other area of the game which is shared by each color

>>49268808
doesn't change the fact that B still can't interact with the stack and that discard spells aren't proactive when they cost more on average than counters, meaning that they will likely never resolve

a proactive solution doesn't work when it costs more than the reactive solution

>>49268746
black has discard, so can interact off the battlfield.

Green being uncounterable doesn't help them interact with things that never touch the battlefield.
The problem isn't counterspells, those can be okay, just like sweepers and cheap removal can be. Which is why those are still getting printed.

What's a problem is when a deck can say "no, you deck can't interact". A deck deciding it's not going to interact with the board for their gameplan is one thing, like say storm, or U/G crush.

But other decks need to be able to interact back, at least being able to pressure them.
That's why aggro red feeds on blue control. Which is a thing that happened last year.

File: fortuitousfind.jpg (42KB, 265x370px) Image search: [Google]

42KB, 265x370px

>>49268765
Black usually simply doesn't discriminate on permanents, hence why no artifact specific interaction. You just have to wait for artifact sets for black to interact to them.

>>49268808
Yeah, black should get to have a bit more fun rather than get it's stuff taken away, it's identity is pretty strong now, no need to really dilute it.
Blue's "everything else" identity is really bad.

>>49268850
I feel black being the only one that doesn't go "time to fuck with the stack" fits nicely in the color. It just seems the color that crosses it's arms, says, go ahead and try, then kicks you in the gut for trying and failing to kill it.
So maybe more "When you're opponent resolves a spell (something beneficial for you or something harmful to your opponent)" for black.

>>49268926
>Black usually simply doesn't discriminate on permanents, hence why no artifact specific interaction.
Black totally discriminates on what permanents it kills. Black removes creatures and sometimes planeswalkers.
When black gets stuff that hits other things, it's combined with green or white. You know, the cards that are good at taking out artifacts and enchantments.

Where black doesn't discriminate, or at least not always, is in cards it takes out of the hand.

>>49268788
40% is horrific considering a good chunk of the field is always random outlying decks that got lucky. Remove 1-2% from every deck in the meta and see just how bad it is.

How ddead is MonoBlue right now?
Will they give uss another languish effect?

File: 5.jpg (68KB, 312x445px) Image search: [Google]

68KB, 312x445px

>>49269014
Oh, you meant removing. My bad. I was thinking of beneficial interactions, like tutoring or benefiting for having it on your side of the field.
Like black gets generic all tutors while blue and red gets artifact tutors for instance. In that case, yeah, black has a dearth of interacting with enchantments and artifacts.
Yeah, honestly I wish black got more effects like pic related in general.

>>49269324
What is Blue?

File: 1453601488620.jpg (44KB, 441x306px) Image search: [Google]

44KB, 441x306px

>>49269324
>MonoBlue
>languish

>>49269213
>PT Eldrich moon
this was a month ago.
Subtracting 2%
Bant 17%, G/B delirium 10%, WB control (hey look a control deck) 5%, Zombies (it did bad) 4.30 %.
Emerge decks, token decks, etc.
Dropping the outliers is what gets it up to 40%, not where it starts.

>>49269350
>>49269364
My bad,
I was asking bout monoblue prison deck for standard.

>>49269324
>how dead is Monocolored decks right now
Been dead for long time, Mana's too good for people not to at least splash in another color
>How dead is blue right now
It's showing up multi-colored decks quite a bit, but it's the dominant part of those decks (though a very important one).
It's weaker now than it was last year.

>>49264961
You already have Ruinous Path and To the Slaughter.

>>49269428
The new uncommon land will kill whatever's left of any desire to monocolor.

I'm so happy for the new land.

>>49268165

You don't need black style removal if you can prevent stuff from entering the battlefield. Efficient (not big, but effective) blue creatures:

Delver
Snapcaster
TNM (one of the best creatures in the game)
Merfolk as a tribe
Vendilion

>>49268670
Color hate spells used to be a thing.

They need to be a thing again. The colors have been boiled down to their absolute basics for far too long.

Things need to be spiced up.

>>49272342
What game have you played recently? All of the current design problems comes from WotC trying to change a perfectly functioning (altough not perfect) color scheme by "spicing things up". Blue is kinda fine but has completely lost his color identity, red soon will and is already a mess, white and green are getting a shitload of new tools and black is completely neglected.

>>49272459
Green has lost cheap ramp.
Red lost efficient damage.
Blue lost omni-counters.
Black... well, their staple power is usually at rare or higher.
White's retained some of it's flavors, but usually moved up a power.

Part of it is that R&D seems terminally afraid of a high-power game, which is understandable. Legacy has a few turn 0-wins due to many cards working togather in ways they probably shouldn't. Or other swift wins having poorly thought out mechanics.

Then, you have even modern legal cards that can do silly things, because silly things.

Planeswalkers probably should never have been a thing, but that ship's long sailed.

The game is something of a zombie, kept upright more from innertial momentum than remaining interesting to play.

>>49272459
I'm upset right now that blue can't get good counterspells

But I'm more upset with Green completely overshadowing blue in the drawing cards and value department

And I'm not sure what there plan is for red since they refuse to give good hasty creatures and face burn for current standard

>>49272589
>The game is something of a zombie, kept upright more from innertial momentum than remaining interesting to play.
Is that why they make a larger profit with each set release?

File: 50.jpg (61KB, 312x445px) Image search: [Google]

61KB, 312x445px

>>49272589
>Blue lost omni-counters.
That's just wrong, it' just now they have a CMC of 3 instead of 2

>>49268765
Get fucked cuck, your fault you dont isochron scepter up a thoughtseize and start sculpting hands

>>49272950
Might want to read the cards you mention.

>>49272939

So like he said, blue lost omni-counters.

>>49272991
No, it didn't.

>>49272939
And cancel is a dead cards all of the time. Blue needs more remand and unsubstantiate effects. There are too many uncounterable effects printed and blue needs to be punished for only playing on the opponents m1-m2 instead of using their turn and the opponents eot like everyone else.

>>49266984
>Stick a straight kill spell and a bolt on a 3 mana instant
>apply no conditions
Anon, you do realize how good bolt is, correct?
Anon, you do realize how good kill spells are, correct?
Anon, are you familiar with kolaghan's command, taking eternals by storm with its combination of removal and burn?
Anon, do you think this card would be ok with better removal and better burn than kolaghan's?

>>49264938
Tg being bad at magic as always

>>49272589
This is not true. Limited is keeping the game alive and well, kinda. The problems are constructed formats.
>>49272622
Market researches show counterspells are toxic, and WotC fears green and red are too tied to the simple mechanics of "ramping" and "burning".

Overall I think the dilemma is that WotC clearly wants to engineer a game that for years "designed itself", aka stayed true to its original schemes and conventions (black does mean shit, blue cares about spells, green ramps into big shit and similar things) simply because they worked and there were no reasons to change them. Thus decisions such as depowering blue, the best color overall because of card advantage, giving more complexity to green, giving red a reason to be other that lightning bolt and cheap hasty creatures. There would be no problems with all of this, if only WotC actually knew how to exactly engineer their game. I feel like WotC severely underestimate playtesting. They do a great job for limited, but for standard they just care about not making particularly broken things, and they admittedly give no shit about modern (they even willingly unbalance it, like they did with OGW and eldrazi winter, in order to sell more packs). So, their design policies are aimed to perfect a game already great, but since they're just crafted theories and are not backed by serious testing, they just unbalance and ruin a game that could litterally be designed by a bot and still have decent constructed formats. They really should involve the pro community in the design process, for more insightful feedback and better playtesting. WotC may know their game best, but they're far from being the best players.

>>49268569
blue is the best color in the game because of cantrips, actually.

>>49268165
>Where's blue's faceburn
Not recent but you have Psionic Blast and Prodigal Sorcerer

>Where's blue's big efficient creatures
Just in the last set blue got Elder Deep-Fiend.

> Where's blue's removal
Imprisoned in the Moon, Pongify. Also you have some indirect one like bouncing a creature to counterspell it after

Blue also get conditional mana dork like Qarsi Deceiver, Curious Homunculus or Cultivator Drone

>>49268750
Most of the best blue decks in Legacy and modern use counterspells to protect creatures on the board, actually. If you want to talk about "In Magic" generically, those would be the formats to look.

File: ephemeral pagnary.jpg (54KB, 375x523px) Image search: [Google]

54KB, 375x523px

>>49273057
>a game that could litterally be designed by a bot and still have decent constructed formats
Wow, you're not wrong.

>>49273057
>involve the pro community in the design process
BEING GOOD AT THE GAME AND KNOWING HOW TO DESIGN SHIT ARE ACTUALLY SUPER FUCKING DIFFERENT

SEE: ANY GAME THAT HAS AN AUTISTIC FANBASE

I am absolutely not vouching for Wizards, just contesting the idea that the top players would be better because they're top players.

>>49273002

Yes it did though.

Unplayable cards don't count.

>>49273171
And a Google search could tell you that multiple 3CMC counterspells have been played the past year in Standard.

>>49273101
They really should make a set with all cards made by RoboRosewater.

http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/150184725313/thanks-for-answering-my-last-question-maro-this
>1. Our advisors specifically told us to avoid Loxodon as they believed elephant humanoids might be disrespectful to some people.

RIP Loxodon in mtg.

>>49273191
>RIP mtg.

Fixed up your sentence for you.

>>49273191
Only in Kaladesh, because Ganesha.

>>49273203
M:tG didn't die enough this thread. Thanks for the contribution.

>>49273125
Of course they're different things, and of fucking course pros shouldn't design, but there's no reason why the two aspects shouldn't collaborate. Maybe we would have a game where thing are like momma wotc wants them to be without entire colors being near to unplayable. To bring a shitty comparison, look at Dota 2. The game is actually decently balanced because it's designed by people that know every ins and outs of it that mantain close relationships with the people that are actually best suited to give intelligent feedback (so not market researches among 13 yo casuals and communities of aficionados with autistic levels off the charts). This would be even more important in a card game where you can't easily cancel previous mistakes and the only way to change shit is by adding new stuff, making everything 10 times more difficult.

>>49273225
There is a difference, moba like Dota have a more competitive oriented playerbase, meanwhile most of MtG players are kitchen table players because it's way easier to play competitive in Dota than in MtG.
They could use pro but by doing this they would probably make the 13 yo casuals angry, and it's those 13 yo casual that buy boosters, intro pack and thing like that.

>>49273171
Get a load of this guy

>>49273352
>casuals
>angry
In the worst case scenario they won't give a shit. As I said, they already know how to do a good job in limited, and it's not like a better designed game will stop anyone from making their beloved lifegain or mill shitbrews for the kitchen table, hell, it could even make them more interesting.

>>49272950
I think you should git fucking gud at this game.

>>49264938
RW
>Lightning Helix
>Ajani Vengeant
>Nahiri the Harbringer
>Aurelia the Warleader
>Boros Charm
>Wear/Tear
BR
>Blightning
>Terminate
>Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast
>Olivia Voldaren
>Fulminator Mage
>Rakdos Charm
>Kolaghan's Command
UR
>Izzet Staticaster
>Izzet Charm
>Keranos, God of Storms
>Electrolize
>Dack Fayden
>Goblin Electromancer
>Epic Experiment
>Nin, Pain Artist
GR
>Fires of Yavimaya
>Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
>Huntmaster of the Fells
>Bloodbraid Elf
>Destructive Revelry
>Vexing Shusher
>Giant Solifuge
>Manamorphose
>Atarka's Command

Off the top of my head.
Why is red only shit when it's alone?

>>49273564
>Why is red only shit when it's alone?
Because red is like a spice. All the other colours represent something solid (White is "good", Black is "evil", Green is "natural", Blue is "knowledge/learning/science") while red is more a flavouring; rage, passion, emotion in general.
"Emotion" is something really hard to portray on it's own so they usually just fall back on "red so fire" and that's why red has so much burn. When you add red to another colour it's basically like adding passion to that colour, passion for what that colour stands for.

>Boros have fanatical zeal for White's justice
>Rakdos have an intense love and enjoyment of the Black way of chaos and breaking rules
>Izzet are madly driven towards Blue's desire to discover and invent
>Gruul is aggressive about it's Green hatred of the un-natural

Red is a seasoning, it doesn't really have enough to make a full colour of. It's a colour of "Strong emotions" with nothing to be emotional about besides burning things and lightning bolts.

>>49273620
Good that they never made purple or the color pie would be crowded as fuck.

What was purple going to be anyway?

>>49273620
Don't forget tri-color.
>Mardu
Red inflames the Orzhovan ambition and will to power, turns them from esoteric mafioso to mighty conquerors who take power and keep it
>Jeskai
Red strips away at Azorius' hesitancy and need for protocol, allowing them to seek enlightenment at greater pace with stronger wills
>Temur
Red gives Simic a sense of self and thereby self-preservation, drawing it back from its reckless insanity and becoming intelligent and fierce survivalists
>Grixis
Red gives spirit to Dimir plotting and usurping, sharpening the greed and driving them to loftier heights, prevents inaction
>Jund
Smashing Golgari and Gruul together becoming an unstoppable force of nature that consumes everyone and everything, never dying and never ceasing
>Naya
... okay Naya is not interesting either.

>>49273716
>... okay Naya is not interesting either.
Naya is taking the white/green trait (Ordering and nurturing the natural world) and smashing it with Gruul (Unrestrained forces of nature) into "Protecting and nurturing the mightiest pinnacles of nature's works". They worship and protect the gargantuans because they're fanatics (Boros somewhat) who believe they are gods.

Basically, fanatical devotion to the protection and nurturing of nature and natural order.

>>49273712
A better Blue that could also kill things. Basically a mishmash of U and B.

File: 1468934249608.png (41KB, 393x400px) Image search: [Google]

41KB, 393x400px

are there even any interesting cards coming for white life gain decks?
so far it seems meh for me

>>49274109
What the fuck are you on anon

WB lifegain is going to be strong as shit with the legend

File: 636089307386260811.png (160KB, 265x370px) Image search: [Google]

160KB, 265x370px

>>49274223
that's the only worthwhile card so far i think.
fuck that life gain dwarf though, art is shit.

File: aetherfluxreservoir.jpg (48KB, 265x370px) Image search: [Google]

48KB, 265x370px

>>49274109
Make sure you already have your Soul Sisters and Ajani's Prisemates secured before the buyout, fellow mono white Anon.

File: en_PpHQrOfn71.png (170KB, 265x370px) Image search: [Google]

170KB, 265x370px

>>49274332

>>49274348
>Soul Sisters
impossible to get for me.
i am running some strange sub-par healing deck cause i just play casual modern.
Some Sungrace Pegasi, healing kitties like healer of the pride or caracals, sungrace pegasus too. Anyway like i said i am casual scum and i play only at work on breaks since i have no friends. Getting expensive cards makes no sense for me.
>>49274357
i run mono-white, but that's cool i guess

>>49274410
>mono-white

Ah, my bad

File: Image.png (120KB, 223x311px) Image search: [Google]

120KB, 223x311px

>>49274410
oops i wrote sungrace pegasus twice, wew... that's how much i like them. Also got 4 Ajani Pridemates so at least that is going well for me.
Pic related is also awesome

>>49268765
If we're talking about EDH, Gate to Phyrexia lets you sac creatures to hate artifacts with incredible inefficiency.

>>49274410
I play casually too, but they're only a little over a buck each. Ajanis are even lower at fifty cents a pop. I wouldn't consider that anywhere near the too expensive range unless I was dead broke. Now Serra Ascendant, that's where I draw the line.

Also how do you play at work if you have no friends? Does your boss strongly encourage you and your coworkers to play with him like a bunch of Japanese businessmen being forced to drink?

>>49274443
Didn't see this post about the Ajanis, sorry. I'm gonna be quite honest here Anon, I made that post (>>49274693) and left after "completing" the captcha to jerk off and cum within that timeframe, only to come back and see that I had to enter it again.

File: Saheeli's Liquimetal Altar.png (508KB, 902x391px) Image search: [Google]

508KB, 902x391px

So is this actually going to something we see people do in Kaladesh?

>>49274865
What, exactly, are you intending to do here?

>>49274887
mill your opponent out, you copy saheeli with saheeli.

>>49274887
Use Liquimetal Coating to make Saheeli Rai into an artifact, use Saheeli Rai's -2 ability to make a copy of herself, triggering Altar of the Brood.
Planeswalkers always enter the battlefield with a set number of loyalty counters, so the copy can use -2 again in an endless loop.

>>49274865
>Liquimetal coating
>Mirrian watermark with Phyrexian quote

>>49274887
You make Saheeli an artifact, then -2 herself. That makes a copy of her (that is ALSO an artifact from her ability). Then you have to sacrifice one copy of her, so you sac the old one, use the new one to -2 herself ect. ect. and mill them from brood altar triggers.

>>49274899
>>49274923
I see. Seems to work, but seems weak to artifact hate. Smelt on Altar solves it.

>>49274865
One card is from Tarkir and the other is from Mirrodin, what makes you think they have any lore relevance in Kaladesh?

File: 1472409116682.jpg (664KB, 1000x1333px) Image search: [Google]

664KB, 1000x1333px

>>49274693
>Does your boss strongly encourage you and your coworkers to play with him like a bunch of Japanese businessmen being forced to drink?
nah, i am vidya tester so there is a lot of fellow nerds at work who also have mtg cards. So we just play during breaks.
Some are tryharding though, like i play with whatever i can make out of cheapo cards for casual fun while some dudes have full reanimator or eldrazi cancer decks made specifically to shit on others at work. They even go to the lenghts to switch with the sideboard for specific people to make sure they lose, lol

>>49274953
Just smelt their Saheeli. It's the one they'd have the hardest time digging for a new copy and have to spend the most mana in a turn playing.

>>49275237
I was thinking you wouldn't get priority, but then I realized it's when the Altar's trigger is on the stack. That's valid.

>>49275346
Priority wouldn't even matter. If you killed Saheeli before the copy ability resolves, it gets countered because its target is dead.

>>49275395
Which notably also means that this is a combo that dies to Bolt.

>>49268670
just like white loves to remove creatures by locking them behind an oblivion ring, so white could have counterspells as long as they are partial or conditional ( ex: delay the spell for 3 turns?).

>>49276416
They've said in the past (and technically shown) that if White were allowed frequent counterspells, they'd be patterned after Lapse of Certainty and Mana Tithe.

>http://talinthas.tumblr.com/post/150111624732/kaladesh-you-break-my-heart
>tumblr get triggered because there are white people on an Idian inspired plane
Damn, it's like I'm back in Theros prerelease and /pol/ rant about black people in Theros.

>>49276559
Out of muh spoiler thread. I'm here to talk MTG, not discuss tumblr bullshit.

>>49276559

The guy is a scum, just read the part covering him not getting a FTV box.

Its past 8 a.m in L.A., Shouldn't there be new spoilers?

Spoilers when?

File: 636084297483480231.png (119KB, 200x279px) Image search: [Google]

119KB, 200x279px

Any good combos with her in standard?

>>49276760
UG Crush might be a good idea. You could also go Temur with Jori En, Ruin Diver.

>>49276845
Thinking of going Temur with 4 cost instants/sorcs and 3 drop creatures

>>49276742
>>49276748
It's the week-end, innit?

>>49273003

They just printed another remand-like counter, you idiot

>>49276760
emerge?

>>49276875
Are there even any good 4 cost instants/sorcs?
Either way this card doesn't seem like a build around, just a bonus value card.

>>49276980
Fuckin' shit. I'm out.

>>49276984
He mentioned Unsubstantiate in his post, so I think he's aware of that.

File: I miss Kiran.png (306KB, 375x523px) Image search: [Google]

306KB, 375x523px

What are some cards that are spoiled right now, that could benefit from that 1 thopter token?

>>49277488
Why did someone make an awkward mockup of Pia in MSE rather than just photoshop the spoiled version of the card?

>>49277524
I guess because whoever did this is retarded.

>>49276760
Lashweed Lurker, put Verdurous Gearhulk on top of your library. Recast it with the Rashmi trigger.

File: 05e349e4ccdfc83745bd8c6395ad17bf329c258d_hq.jpg (24KB, 499x430px) Image search: [Google]

24KB, 499x430px

>post yfw no spoilers today

>>49276984
Yes, that spell is called unsubstantiate...

File: StickyEyes.jpg (13KB, 500x259px) Image search: [Google]

13KB, 500x259px

>>49278978

No weekend spoilers makes me want to kill myself

>>49279438
Get a life, faggot.

>>49274865
You have to tap liquid metal coating each time you make her an artifact so it doesn't work

>>49280034
>except it's an artifact in addition to its other types

File: Lost-Legacy-Kaladesh-Spoiler.png (196KB, 265x370px) Image search: [Google]

196KB, 265x370px

>>49264101

Anybody else think this card is broken as shit? You could cripple peoples decks with this card alone and you can have four of them.

>>49280248
jam it in the sideboard ;)
and then side it in, when you know your enemies strategie relies heavily on 1 specific card

>>49280248
You do know these effects have existed have been much better, before, right?

>>49280349
it's in standard and better than memoricide, you can even use this on yourself to draw 4.

>>49280408
>FROM HAND THIS WAY.

Please read the card.

File: 1473466352955.jpg (12KB, 315x326px) Image search: [Google]

12KB, 315x326px

>>49280416
I just love it how nobody reads the card ever

>>49280248
>what is Lobotomy
>what is Cranial Extraction
>what is Shimian Specter
>what is Thought Hemorrhage
>what is Surgical Extraction
>what is Infinite Obliteration

>>49280430
>>49280416
It is still ridiculous removal card in standard

>>49280248
>this guy
Anon this card is only good to exile 4 ichord, than put them back in your yard via one of those stupid eldrazi.

>>49280449
No it isn't. Stronger versions of this effect have existed in standard and weren't "ridiculous". it's sideboard card and it'll be good at that. i know you probably misread this stupid ass card and I hate it because of everyone doing that.

>>49280442

It is better than all of those as it can target planeswalkers.

>>49280248
What I want to do is make a deck with this and a shitload of relentless rats, then targetting myself with it.

Exile almost entire deck, exile rats from hand, draw remaining deck

>>49280529
le shadowborn apostle face

File: ovalchasedaredevil.jpg (43KB, 265x370px) Image search: [Google]

43KB, 265x370px

I keep looking at O-Daredevil thinking that she's an enabler to SOMETHING.

It's a card you never have to cast, whenever you gain an artifact it comes back from the yard to your hand for free. Discard clearly loves it.

Sliversmith is currently the only unexciting combo I can see.

>>49280549
Shadowborn apostle would probably also work, put in a rune-scarred demon to tutor for Lost Legacy if you get it off

>>49280553
You know, I always thought this card returned to the battlefield. I always thought it was strange how they left out comes into play tapped considering they usually do that for potentially infinitely recurring pieces.

>>49280604
>>49280553

Shit I thought it was graveyard to battlefeiled as well. confirmed garbage card.

>>49280618
It's like you don't want to abuse this for indefinite discard shenanigans.

Something that lets you discard for an artifact.

>>49280635
if it was a vampire pilot then it would be interesting.

>>49280649
>Aetherborn pilot
Fixed that for you.
I need more aetherborn creatures damnit.

>>49280510
>Lobotomy: anything other than basic land
>Cranial Extraction: nonland card
>Shimian Specter: nonland card (enabled by dealing combat damage)
>Thought Hemorrhage: nonland card
>Surgical Extraction: anything other than basic land card in the graveyard
>Infinite Obliteration: Creature card

>Lost Legacy: Nonartifact, nonland.

Yeah, Lost Legacy is totally more powerful than everything on that list. Read the fucking card, you mong.

>>49280690
Aetherborn would never risk their lives for anything.

So what are people's ideas on the red gearhulk?

>4RR
>haste
>etb 3 dmg divided amongst target creatures/players
>5/3

rinse and repeat, wizards

>>49280717

I meant to say for 3 most of those cost 4 or more and some need other requirements to work.

And Surgical extraction has to work off the graveyard.

You can't just turn 3 exile any planewalker you want with any of those.

>>49280767
I'm going to say it's going to be like that but a 6/4 and 5 points of damage in ETB.

>>49280753
They have a month to a few years and are canonical hedonists that live to experience as much of life's joys as possible.
One of them going "I wanna be a race car driver" doesn't sound like something one would do?
Because their lives are short and they worry about no legacy, everything is an opportunity for them to enjoy something.

>>49280753
Aetherborn would literally not think twice about risking their lives, because if they don't, they seriously risk not having lived them when their time comes.

From what I noticed, there are two kinds of Aetherborn, the ones that accept their mortality and hedonistically live life to its fullest and those that would cling to life stealing it from others.

>>49280892
Do we have that kind of Aetherborn? I kind of thought Gonti just took what he wanted because he didn't have to live with the consequences for very long, not necessarily because he wanted to cling to life or something.

>>49280793
First of all, Surgical Extraction works best with discard. Second, it can hit fetchlands and utility lands (Wasteland, etc.). Third, it's instant, and four it has an alternate cost.

Just because Lost Legacy can hit Planeswalkers on turn three doesn't mean anything. Lost Legacy can't hit the Gearhulks which are going to be just as big as any walker, let alone utility artifacts like Filigree Familiar, Ghirapur Orrery, Aetherworks Marvel or the Modules.

It's a decent sideboard card but to say it's stronger than all of the cards I listed is fucking idiotic.

>>49280941
it is also in standard and all of those will be modern when it is officially released. It can hit Chandra or any other 4 cost mana planeswalker before they are even played which is extremely powerful.

Gearhulks are creatures so they just die by any other kind of removal, planewalkers are considerably harder to deal with.

>>49280767
>players
Bruh

File: essenceextraction.jpg (39KB, 265x370px) Image search: [Google]

39KB, 265x370px

>>49280913
Some Aetherborn can extend their life via sucking it from others, as pic related demonstrates.

Most Aetherborn are "happy" enough to Live Fast, Die Young

>>49280442
>neglecting to mention the best one: Extirpate

step it up, magpie

>>49280991
Assuming over enough games Chandra hits the board on turn four, sure.

You're forgetting how many Planeswalker-specific kill spells there are. Ruinous Path, To the Slaughter, Sorin, Grim Nemesis, any amount of burn from Battle/Shadows, being attacked. I'm not saying Chandra's weak, I'm saying Lost Legacy is not as powerful as Surgical or even >>49281139, and arguing so is stupid.

Besides, we're not arguing which format each card is in. You said
>It is better than all of those as it can target planeswalkers.

End of story. If you like Chandra and think she's going to fuckstart Standard, you do you. But she's not invincible and there are a multitude of ways to get rid of her.

>>49280815
>>49280892
Aetherborn are black not red. They're hedonistic and selfish because they don't have to live with consequences, not because they're thrillseekers. They aren't going to risk their life just for shits and giggles.

>>49281344
different person, but the big benefit of Lost Legacy of Surgical has over most of those cards is costing less than 4 and naming a card.

Hitting planeswalkers isn't that huge, and using any of these cards against utility cards is just not a good idea. You put these cards in against finishers and combo.
Discard into surgical can work, but you do have to hit the discard, and that weakness is why Surgical cost so much less.

While in modern it's going to compete with Surgical, because surgical is cheap, but if combo or single finisher card come into modern, costing 3 will put lost legacy over the 4 cost cards.
Because you don't care about getting card advantage, if you want card advantage in the matchup, don't run ANY of these cards. They're anti-combo anti-control finisher, not card advantage cards.

File: 636086134590419289.png (157KB, 265x370px) Image search: [Google]

157KB, 265x370px

>>49281412
There's a difference between claiming they're thrillseekers and claiming that an aetherborn won't ever drive a fucking race car because they think it looks fun and exciting.
Saying "They won't ever do anything potentially dangerous" is swinging that pendulum too far in the other direction.
Especially since most of what's understood about them comes from a card named "Live Fast" that talks about not wasting chances.

>>49281344

Extirpate and Surgical are specific cards for specific decks, they are also modern.

Lost Legacy can fit in any black deck and they are used for completely different reasons. Lost Legacy costs the same as those removal cards isn't as fast but can take out more than one copy of the planewalker.

It also isn't limited to just planeswalkers as well and can hit everything except artifacts and lands in their deck, hand, and graveyard.

Definitely one of the best removal spells in standard at the moment.

>>49269428
white weenie is the 3rd best deck in standard.

that means shit when 1 and 2 are coco and temurge but it only does one red card in sideboard

>>49268569
Black has a Creature-only counterspell, a spell redirection card, and an enchantment that lets you just say no to green spells all day every day.

>>49281708
Now which of those are normal and can be reprinted or have their effects reprinted.
Remember that planar chaos is full of cards doing what they CAN'T do. That was that sets gimmick and there's a reason why Wizards regrets it almost more than anything.

>>49274865
won't the copy enter the battlefield with the same number of loyalty counters?

>>49281826
Nope. Whenever a planeswalker, or a copy of one enters the battlefield, they show up at their starting loyalty.

>>49280034
you can just copy the one thatis already an artifact.

>>49281870
>What is the Planeswalker Uniqueness Rule?

>>49282667
lets you get rid of the old planeswalker, and keep the new copy.

>>49282696
Does Liquidmetal Coating's effect transfer to the new Saheeli? I thought abilities and characteristics granted from other objects other than the permanent your copying don't transfer to the copied permanent, i.e. giving your Grizzly Bear Titan Strength then cloning it just gives you a regular 2/2 Grizzly Bear.

>>49282808
read Saheelis -2 again:
>except it's an artifact in addition to its other types.

>>49282808
doesn't matter.
Saheeli's ability says "except it's an artifact in addition to it's other types".

>>49282836
>>49282839
Ah, carry on then.