MTG Kaladesh Spoilers

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reposting here. Kaladesh has brought us a cool turn 3 infinite.

http://i.imgur.com/qSuSCgr.png

>>49251187
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vU7XqToZso
Everytime I see that cycle

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Instant
Exile target creature you control, then return that card to the battlefield under its owner's control.
Draw a card.

>>49251259
guys I'm getting the impression that UW blink is going to be a deck this standard.

>>49251259
Nice common

>>49251259
This seems pretty good for a flicker effect that cantrips.

>>49251237
That's pretty clever. Too bad it'll never see play anywhere.

>>49251259
>3 mana
Eh

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So this is totally a penis wagon, right? I'm not the only one seeing this...

>>49251313
I'd hardly call that a wagon

>>49251300
why not though? you literally can win turn 3 with it. what keeps it from being playable?

>>49251300
It cantrips and if there is a lot of good etb which many of these spells seem to do then it is definitely well costed.

>>49251237

Wait, am I missing something here? Are you saying you'd make Saheeli an artifact in addition to its other types and repeat? I don't know the rules on planeswalkers super well, but I presume it's like legendaries where you would have to sacrifice the other Saheeli and thus it would not work, unless you can activate the ability before you'd have to sac, but I don't know if that's possible...?

>>49251382
You choose which of the copies you keep, you keep the new one.

>>49251187

It's either going to be absolute garbage, or fantastically good. I'm hoping for something with haste and the turn it comes into play it gives you an extra combat and main phase.

>>49251282
It definitely seems to be setting up to be one of the limited archetypes.

>>49251353
That is very true. Seems like it would be very good with the gearhulks.

>>49251340
I just don't see it working. Please prove me wrong and brew something, though. I'd be happy to test it with you in Modern/Legacy.

>>49251382
Make Saheeli into an artifact -> have her create a token of herself and sac the old one -> mill -> repeat

Also fyi folks LRR said on their stream that their video for their spoiler will be up tonight.

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Boring set. I'm glad I'm not buying any of this shit, nothing useable in Legacy or EDH

>>49251340
It's a three-piece combo where two of the pieces are essentially useless on their own, and are a very fragile card type.

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>>49251530
>nothing useable in EDH

What are you on about?

>>49251187
what cycles in recent memory have not had the red card be worst in the cycle?

>>49251636
He just wants to bitch about everything because the cool kids are all complaining about how shit wizards is now.

>>49251652
the thriving cycle in this set.
The black one is a 1/2 for 1B, the red is a 2/1 for 1R. Red one is clearly better, arguable the best, with it's only competition being the green one.

>>49251656
>plane supposed to be about fantastic artifacts
>all artifacts are shit or have some goofy gimmick that makes them playable

Nah this set is shit bro, make it sound like Mirrodin 3.0 and it ends up being Dragon's Maze tier.

>>49251652
Collective Defiance from EMN, and Pia/Kiran and Exquisitie Firecraft from Origins?

That's all I got

>>49251723
>gear hulks
>fillagree familiar
>the modules

>>49251313
Penis tractor, really.

>>49251259
>wizards prints "ETB: EEEEE"

>>49251798
>gear hulks
White and green are objectively awful, black one is overcosted, blue would be better to cast sorcery in gy instead of instant. Not going to bother with the rest of what you posted because they sound awful

>>49251830
Nah man, it'll be ETB for REEEE

>>49251867
>Pepe
>Artifact creature-Frog
>REEEEEE, Sacrifice Pepe: destroy target permanent
>"FUCKING NORMIES, GET OUT REEEEEE!"

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>>49251853
>White and green are objectively awful
>black one would be fair at 3BB or less

>>49251187
it's the red one

>>49251963
no shit

>>49251853
>White is objectively awful
>green is meh
>black one is fairly-costed
>blue would (lose all utility as countermagic plus a body) to cast sorcery in gy
fixed
you don't have much clue pal

have any of you read this? it was mentioned on maro's blog

http://talinthas.tumblr.com/post/150111624732/kaladesh-you-break-my-heart

jesus fucking christ this is dumb.

>>49252017
I do wish that blue could do instant or sorcery but that might make it too strong.

>>49252028
Summarize it because I'm not reading even 1/3rd of that shit.

>>49251963
I chuckled

>>49252028
No one cares.

>>49252017
>casting a card that would already have "flash" is better than it making a sorcery gain flash

Maybe you don't have a clue pal. Everything else I said is objectively correct and if you don't agree, you are wrong.

>mfw blink spirits

Holy shit

>>49251187

Not really related but does anyone remember the name of that second creature that can be cast from exile, not Misthollow Griffon but the newer one?

>>49252028
>Here's what I think, but first read my entire fucking life story

>>49251853
>green is awful
>8 p/t for 5 mana
>it has trample too
>if you blink/reanimate it, can get 4 more p/t

Anon, don't be a dumbfuck.

>>49252028
fuck you Im not reading your novel

>>49252074
An actual Indian woman is upset that Kaladesh just has Indian culture and history as background fluff.

Basically, she would have loved an Indian Kamigawa, or at least been happy with an Indian Theros, but to her Wizards couldn't even half-ass enough to call the demons "Asura" or something that even westerners would get.

It's someone venting, but not particularly SJWey if that's what >>49252028
wanted people to see.

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>Check my usual card games online shops
>Kaladesh pre orders
>Starcity got chandra at FUCKING $60
>My cheap online shop got her at $50
>"FUCK THAT, I better go to sleep, probably after half a day of some shit the prize goes down since nobody would pay that much"
>Return and check
>OUT OF STOCK AND PRIZE WENT UP

What the fuck?
Why would you pay that much for Standard, and for a card that is not even meta warper at Jace level?

>inb4 some autist says "chandra jtms XD"

>>49252272
When have planeswalkers never been hyped and had prices to reflect as such?

>>49252272
Don't underestimate how stupid people are

These are the same people that preordered the fuck out of Narset and set her price stupid high

People just look at 4 abilities and 4 mana and cream their pants thinking they are getting the next mind sculptor when in reality they are just getting an average standard playable planeswalker

>>49252272
It's the best Chandra ever printed. There's going to be hype for that. Also a 4-mana walker with 4 abilities is good.

>>49252140
Eternal Scourge

>>49251853
>>49252017
>>49252123
In the standard environment, they're all good so far, none of you are good at evaluating cards. If for any other format, no shit, their 5 drops and up that don't win the game or find combo pieces. Maybe edh for the white and blue one so far, but thats it.

>>49252340

That's the nigger! Thanks Anon.

>>49252354
>haven't been tested yet
>its good

Go fuck yourself

>>49252272
Honestly the more I look at her the more I think shes terrible

Sure you have 3 options to choose from but they are all equally unimpressive

I wouldn't be surprised if she crashed ala Narset

>>49252421
She's definitely good, but still super overrated and only arguably better than Pyromaster.

>>49252354
for edh & the white one, Tragic Arrogance is strictly better because the caster chooses. with cataclysmic gearhulk each player chooses their own shit.

>>49251340
Hosed by stony silence -- too easy to sideboard against, in other words.

>>49251187
>5 mana
>flying
>lightning bolt etb
>6/3

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Night Owl enters the battlefield with 7 time counters.

At the beginning of your draw step, you draw additional one card, remove two time counters from Night Owl

Your maximum hand size is equal to the number of time counters on Night Owl

Whenever you discard a card, you lose 1 life.

>>49252495
>time counters

TIME SPIRAL REVISIT CONFIRMED?

>>49251340
It's a worse version of Painter in Legacy since the pieces are harder to find. In Modern it might stand a chance but it's disrupted by bolt, Abrupt Decay, and a bunch of other shit.

>>49252475
flying?

>>49252495
New Demonic Pact?

I'm offering this shit all day.

>>49252495

People talking about this as a Harmless Offering target are simpletons. The downside is trivial for most decks, this is pure card advantage.

>>49252517

The red one. Haste is too weak but first strike or double strike are also possible.

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>>49252316
I know that but I didn't expected that people would actually buy them.
When I preordered my Gideons, or my Avacyns, or Emrakuls, said cards had a huge amount of hype before release, SCG hyped them to hell, but even so in every case they got down to $20 (for a single day at least, on my frequented cheap shop) which gave me the chance to get a playset for a fair prize.

Since people are buying Chandras for $50 there's no incentive for the shops to low the cost, which is retarded since she is not better than Avacyn, Gideon or Emrakul.
So I don't know when I would be able to get them because Im not paying that much, is Arlinn Kord all over again.

Which is very sad because I wanted to try Red/Green aggro with Chandras, Arlinns, the new R/G guy and some Delirium engine to speed things up.

>>49252543
The thing is, it prevents you from playing instants during your opponent's turn once it loses its counters.

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>>49252495
does this still net you an additional draw when all the time counters are gone?

>>49252558
Flying is not common in red and all of the other keywords the gearhulks have gotten have been very in color so I doubt that will be the case.

>>49252578
If I understand correctly (which I don't because of shoddy translation) You can't bring the counters to less than 1. I assume removing 2 time counters is a cost to draw the additional card. Aka, you could hold up an instant.

>>49252578

Except for bounce spells targeting it, you mean? Maybe as a SB card against hard control decks but it's far from an auto-include in Harmless Offering. It IS an autoinclude in most black decks tho, a nice spin on Phyrexian Arena.

>>49252607
>I assume removing 2 time counters is a cost to draw the additional card.

No.

>>49252386
They all do well at what there generally meant.
>White is geared towards BW control where you'd probably have no more than a creature and planeswalker at a time, and helps clear heavy boards.
>Green can fit into what is very clear a RG monsters strategy that we can see from all the support so far, it lterally gives 4 power to creatures immediately and gives itself as an additional threat, or makes itself threatening.
>Black also can be used in BW control builds or even Bx grindy builds, like GB/x Delirum or B/x Midrange builds, kill biggest creature and gain life back, great card to stabilize with.
>Blue can give U/x draw and go some late game power and push, probably no more than 1 or 2 copies, but being able to just drop a 5/6 and counter a spell/draw some cards end of turn is something that U/x control decks would love.
There are always good cards in standard like this, it's if they find a home or uncontested slot in the mana curve is what can make or break its standard usage.

>>49252601

True. First strike then. Fits the lightning bolt etb better anyway.

>>49252617
The thing is harmless offering isn't going to be a deck after rotation without something equally as bad to give the opponent as a spent demonic pact.

>>49252600

Yes, which is why you don't want to give it away.

>>49252607
>I assume removing 2 time counters is a cost to draw the additional card

No colon on the card, so it's not a cost just a trigger.

>>49252607
Whenever a spell or ability instructs you to do something, you follow as much of those instructions as possible.

If it says to remove 2 counters from it and draw a card but there is only 1 left, you'll remove that one counter and draw a card. Then, next time it tells you to remove 2 counters and draw a card, you'll remove no counters and draw a card.

>>49252655

Perhaps, but "Night Owl" is not that thing.

>>49252681
Agreed, I should note I am not the one arguing that it was.

>>49252617
Flickering it might be pretty neat. I agree that it isn't a mainboard donate option, it's great as an option on the side against maybe control or some blue decks. In an aggressive black deck that needs lategame gas, it can be a blessing and that's how I see that it will be used, if it gets used at all.

>>49252607
During your draw step you get an additional card and remove two counters from Night Owl. Even if it has only one counter, you still must try to remove two and in doing so remove the one.

>>49252171
Honestly kind of reminds me of what people on here were saying about how wizards shouldn't have put black people on innistrad, there are many similarities at least.

>>49252718

4 mana is a bit steep for SuiBlack but if standard is slow enough it will see play.

>>49252495
One thing that amuses me about this is the whole timestamp interaction. If you play another you get to hold onto your cards for a few more turns until you can dig into a third one. It's actually pretty silly.

>>49252736
Not even SuiBlack, just something that doesn't really need instants. Hell, that downside doesn't even matter for a while since it takes 4 turns to reduce your hand size to 0. Still won't see play, most likely. What's bad about it is that it doesn't provide immediate advantage on turn 4, though it compensates with the extra draw.

>>49252725

Wizards is an Amerifat company and so it has to reflect America's makeup in it's cards even when that makes no sense, as with Theros and Innistrad. This is no just because the PC brigade will hound them mercilessly if they don't, but also because Americans are the people most likely to buy the cards so you design the cards to appeal to as many Americans as possible.

tl;dr- Gas America

#SaveMagicKillAmericans

>>49252777

It's not Bob but nothing ever will be. As a non-painful Arena it might even be better in some matchups (RDW for instance).

>>49252725
Innistrad's only vaguely Europe though, a few black people doesn't change that.

Her problem is more akin to us going to the Egypt plane, the only Egypt plane we'd probably get, and it having no Not!Egyptian gods, Not!Pharaohs, or any of that. As in it's basically just a, for example, enchantment plane with pyramids and sand in the background.
No historical egyptian "culture" or the like.

Alternatively, imagine if WotC was a chinese owned company and they decided to do a set on the crusades, and portrayed Not!Europe "accurately" as a legion of Samurai.

>>49252795
You save life, but it takes an extra turn to kick in and restricts your play. An extra draw on turn 5 probably won't be as good as that draw on turn 4, even if it didn't cost you one life.

>>49252495
This clearly has a good amount of power for a standard card, but it's too expensive for the kind of deck that would want it most. Typical.

>>49251636
That card is not usable in EDH. You understand that there's more than two players in that format, right?

>>49252835
there are several cards that instantly gain that life back.

>>49252835

And you understand how easy it is to get absurd levels of life in EDH, right? Or to abuse cards like Eternity Vessel and landfall triggers?

>>49252835

Uh, if you get some sort of infinite life combo going then yeah, it'll work.

>>49252835
>Lifegain deck in EDH doesn't have 50 life to spend casually.
>Don't have ways to get that life back instantly at EoT.

>>49252835
>Rings of Brighthearth isn't a format staple

>>49251530
This set is ridiculously powerful. What are you talking about?

>>49252896
>ridiculously powerful
Now, now, let's not get ahead of ourselves.

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>>49252896

>Memenergy is not at all useful
>No affinity/robots support even though this is supposed to be the artifact set
>All the value will be in two cards, both plainswalkers
>Poo in loo story, poo in loo cards.

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>>49252919
It's certainly not a step back from Eldritch Moon. The power level has been creeping up since the weak Battle for Zendikar and it's kind of nice, actually.

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>>49252981
Whenever you cast an instant or sorcery spell, you gain EE (two energy counters).

Tap, pay EEEEE: Dinavolt Tower deals three damage to target creature or player.

>>49252965
>No affinity/robots support

Well, Fair might be a 1-of. It's comparable to Sea Gate Wreckage, so it'll see testing in the same spot.

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>been busy the last few weeks
>hear of spoilers for Robo-India
>oh cool artifacts and shit
>new mechanic is Energy AKA Splice into the arcane 2 Electric Boogaloo

What da fuck?

>>49252981
>creeping up since the weak Battle for Zendikar

I guess you don't like to think about them, but Oath's Eldrazi were some of the strongest cards we've seen printed in a long while.

>>49252074
She's upset because she's retarded. Wizards set out to not not just make the theme park version of India, which is why no loxodon, no crazy Hindu gods(though the angel does have 4 arms) and no multiple armed blue dudes. This apparently upsets her, because she just wanted straight India. She also bemoans there's nonwhites on kaladesh, but I'm sure would be exactly the kind of person to tell someone bitching about niggers in Innistrad to get over it.

>>49253002
Playable in RU visions? I don't know

>>49253022
>Oath's Eldrazi were some of the strongest cards we've seen printed in a long while.

No they literally aren't

They are unplayable except when you cheaty cheat them out with sol lands in a format that has no other sol lands

>>49253002
This seems pretty fucking good in Mizzex.

>>49253018
>Energy as parasitic as Splice and Arcana
I want this meme spouted by idiots who don't know what parasitic really is to die.

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>>49251282
I think esper with that legendary guy that can rob the topdecks and lets you cast them, even if you don't want to you can still deny your opponent of something strong and you can cast it even if he leaves.

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>>49253022
>I guess you don't like to think about them, but Oath's Eldrazi were some of the strongest cards we've seen printed in a long while.

That's why I said "Since Battle for Zendikar"

Oath is after battle.

>>49253042
You really must not like thinking about them, because those "unplayable" fucks are still Tier 1 in Legacy and Modern, and even Tier 2 in Vintage

>>49252495
If you manage to chain them, timestamps would allow you to draw like a madman without having to fear about discard

>>49253048
>Energy only interacts with other cards that make energy and use it in one set
>Splice only interacts with other cards that it can splice into in one set

You are right

I see no parallels whatsoever

>>49253042
>They are unplayable except when you cheaty cheat them out with sol lands in a format that has no other sol lands

>Displacer
>Smasher
>Reshaper
>Breaker

>Unplayable

Come on, man. Really?

>>49253023
>mfw Indian
>mfw some expat thinks the entirety of India can be summarized as one culture and one people
>mfw she gets triggered by fucking Mughal architecture despite the undeniable fact that Muslims are and were always an important people on the Indian subcontinent
>mfw she gets offended by Wizards having the set present the same multiculturality she probably advocates on her fucking tumblr
>mfw have to poo but designated shitting street is being repaired

>>49253058
That wasn't creeping, the Oath Eldrazi were a jarring leap.

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>tfw wanted to build eldrazi after rotation
>either colorless beatdown or emerge
>see this fucker
Great, there goes that plan.

>>49253077
Almost every energy producing cards allow you to use the energy themselves. That's not parasitic.

>>49253095
This is sideboard material at best and will only be played if your deck actually becomes an important thing in the meta

>>49253074
I acknowledge them

I'm just saying they aren't a good measure of power in a set because their usage is tied to lands that pump them out faster than intended. As a 4 drop thought knot seer is fairly mediocre. When you are playing it on turn 2 in modern or other formats wow the card is pretty good now.

>>49253083
Those cards are all fine in standard but please don't tell me they would see play in a format like modern without the eldrazi lands.

>>49253077
>Energy is basically charge counters that Energy cards can share, but you can literally throw a single energy card in your deck and be done with it.

>You basically have to build your deck around arcane and splice to use the mechanic at all.

This is why you're stupid.

>>49253098
Almost every card that's relying on it's own energy source by itself is bad

Much like how most Splice into the Arcane spells are bad by themselves

Still not seeing any parallels?

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>>49251187
>How familiar are you with the Gear Hulks, exactly?

>>49253108
Smasher's a 5 mana 5/5 with Trample, Haste and the ability to protect itself.

It was pushed, no question.

>>49253002
Nice synergy with the instant that deals 1R, gives you EEE and then burns a creature for as much E as you spend

Can target your own creature, spend zero E and then just use the tower for an improvised bolt to the face

>>49253112
>You basically have to build your deck around arcane and splice to use the mechanic at all.

You got me there

If only there were magical cards that saw play with splice that were really good in other formats.

Yeah I can't think of any. I mean there is some shitty cards like Through the Breach ,Goryos Vengeance, and Desperate Ritual. Pretty sure no actual decks use those cards.

>>49253095
Get over it. How do you think us shitbrew burn players feel abouy Mr. Pay to Play?

>>49253108
>Those cards are all fine in standard but please don't tell me they would see play in a format like modern without the eldrazi lands.

Are you the kind of guy who thinks that a card is only 'good' if it's Modern/Eternal tier level?

>>49253161
All the Eldrazi cards that you are saying are fucking overpowered were barely noticed in standard at all (the lowest power level format)

It's almost like.....they are bad and expensive unless you have sol lands.....woahh.....

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>>49253108
>I'm just saying they aren't a good measure of power in a set because their usage is tied to lands that pump them out faster than intended. As a 4 drop thought knot seer is fairly mediocre. When you are playing it on turn 2 in modern or other formats wow the card is pretty good now.

This just in: cards make other cards good. More at 11.

>>49253086
Oh did I not mention? Not an expat. She grew up in America

>>49253122
1. Power level doesn't have anything to do with how parasitic a mechanic is.
2. Voltaic Brawler, Aether Hub are good, the Thriving cycle is decent. Wow, all that Energy stuff that doesn't even need other Energy producers to work.

>>49253157
What are you talking about? I didn't say that the cards were shitty, just explaining how the Splice mechanic is parasitic.

You have all your splice cards, but unless you have a specific subset of cards, arcane in this case, then the splice onto arcane mechanic doesn't do anything and you just cast the cards as normal. With energy if you want to use the mechanic you literally just play a card that uses the mechanic, for Splice? You have to play the card with the mechanic, and enough enablers to make using the mechanic viable.

You really are stupid if you thought I was attacking their power level and not the mechanic's parasitism. Did you even stop to think about your response, or were you in some kind of rush to be "witty and sarcastic?"

>>49253184
>Gearhulks previewed
>everyone says they won't be played in eternal formats because they aren't that good
>cut to 2 years later
>Return to Ravnica 5: Flim Flam
>in the set is a land that gives 6 mana of any color to cast anything with "gearhulk" in the title
>faggots like you claim Kaladesh was such a powerful crazy set for introducing Gearhulks

Sure

>>49252495
How does this interact with Thought Vessel and Reliquary Tower

>>49251237
Wait her copy retains her artifact subtype????????????

>>49253221
>2. Voltaic Brawler, Aether Hub are good, the Thriving cycle is decent. Wow, all that Energy stuff that doesn't even need other Energy producers to work.

Through the Breach, Goryo are good and Ritual is decent. Wow, all that splicing stuff doesn't even need other arcane spells to work.

Have I led the stupidest horse in the world to water yet?

>>49253247
her ability makes the copy an artifact you donut

>>49253247
>create a token of target ARTIFACT except it's an ARTIFACT in addition to it's other types

>>49253095
Every deck has weaknesses. I'm building UR horrors&spells, and that BW Advisor is going to fuck my anus, but I'm still building it. Learn to sideboard.

>>49253235
You're reaching.

>>49253247
It's part of her minus ability's effect: "Except it's an artifact in addition to it's other types"

>>49253257
So you're casting them for their normal cost and not splicing them onto an arcane spell? That's not using the parasitic "Splice onto Arcane" mechanic that we've been talking about, you're talking about cards that have the mechanic that you're not using.
You really are stupid.

>>49253245
Having no maximum handsize trumps it, regardless of timestamps or anything else. Reliquary Tower doesn't modify your handsize, it removes it completely.

>>49253257
>Splicing stuff onto arcane without using other arcane spells
What.

>>49252820
>Her problem is more akin to us going to the Egypt plane, the only Egypt plane we'd probably get, and it having no Not!Egyptian gods, Not!Pharaohs, or any of that.
The difference is that Egypt is a dead culture. No one worships those gods anymore, no one is ruled by a pharao, and so on. Quite simply, no one is gonna take offense at their take on the mythology. Hinduism, however, is very much alive and practiced. If Wizards had decided to include half-assed interpretations of Vishnu and Shiva in Kalasesh they would have much larger problems than one angry Indian woman on Twitter.

>>49253321
So what you're saying is that we're never going to have Jesus Christ, Planeswalker?

>>49253321
Oh no doubt. I was basically just explaining her pov on the matter. She's upset that the set wasn't more India, and was more "India colored paint"
There's nothing wrong with her opinion, but she doesn't see it from WotC's point of view.

>>49253309

This would make the most sense.

For instance, a variable 'handsize' can have a fixed length, and you can dispose this fixed size variable or leave it unused.

>>49251237

Omg it curves perfectly. That's beautiful.

>>49253311
>>49253288
>>49253221
>>49253112
>MaRo said Energy is parasitic
>random dipshits on a Korean message board say NUH UH

Gee I dunno who to trust on this one guys

>>49253387
The problem is people are acting like a mechanic being parasitic implies the cards it's being printed on must be bad somehow because of it.

Yes, Through the Breach is a good card that is Arcane.
No, Through the Breach being a good card does not mean Arcane was not a parasitic mechanic.

>>49251636
thing looks busted as hell, ive played so many lifegain edh and standard decks that are based around gaining life and have nothing to do with it, burning 50 life is a instakill on most players even in late game in standard and in edh it can bring someone very low for a final swing.

>>49253221
Energy is a cool concept, but its the sort of mechanic they build card games around, not expansions. If energy is going to be good outside of block, its going to be because there are two pieces that either we haven't seen or no one has picked up on yet; an efficient producer, and an efficient sink, both cost effective and powerful.

>>49253387
>Maro also made sure to say "Nowhere near as parasitic as Splice"
>Random dipshit on a taiwanese scroll factory says "LOL JUST AS PARASITIC"
I think the answer's pretty obvious.

>>49253436
True, though it also has the benefit of interacting quite well with at least one other mechanic from a different expansion, so that's always a plus.

>>49252272
people just like planeswalkers, usefullness isnt a factor, ajani vengeant is dirt cheap while being pretty good while almost every chandra is pricey and unplayable

>>49253461
Proliferate? Are there even any good cards with that on it? Spread the sickness? Inexorable tide? Arent those cards bad?

>>49253532
What's your definition of good? Plenty of proliferation cards see play in EDH.

>>49253532
I didn't say the mechanic had good cards, just that they interact pretty well.
Volt Charge or Tezzeret's Gambit maybe?

>>49253196

First wave immigrant kids are the worst.

Aware enough to think that they lost a culture, not aware enough to notice that they don't represent it.

>>49253436
>Effective sink and producer.
Do you mean in large numbers?
Because if you just mean efficient cards, arriving grub, voltaik brawler, hellion.
All make it, all use it, all benefit from having more.
All are set up for an aggro deck that's just missing the one drop.
Looking good enough for standard so far.

>>49252495
This might see play with Sea Gate Wreckage.

>>49253349
>>49253321
It does raise an interesting question though. Is it right to go for the popculture visions of these cultures?
The Shinto religion is extant but I've never heard a single one of the vast multitude of Japanese players say that Kamigawa was offensive or not representative.
Theros was representing a dead culture as well and they went out of the way to make it as milquetoast as possible. The point is why even bother with consultants and all that "Look how diverse we are" if it's just a throwaway accessory to a plane?

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Is she a fucking dwarf ?

>>49253691
>Is it right to go for the popculture visions of these cultures?

It's profitable, which is what matters more to them right now. Kamigawa was a harsh lesson, and a sad one, that players don't want to learn about the intricacies of unfamiliar cultures, they want the interpretations they are familiar with.

They've said a Return to Kamigawa is extremely unlikely, but there is a chance they might do a new, different Japanese cultured set that is more akin to what the players would expect.

>>49251187
>each color of gearhulk was designed by and is being overlooked by the colors main race

>red is gremlin
???

>>49253763
Huge flavor win would be to call it Melted Gearhulk.
2RR
0/6
Defender
At the beginning of you upkeep create 3 2/1 Gremlin Tokens with Haste. Exile them at the beginning of the next end step.

Art would depict a melted Gearhulk shell and Gremlins scurrying in and out of it.


Too clever for WotC though.

Bet its actually generic as fuck.

>>49253828
Change it to combat step, and I like it.

>>49253828
That would be the perfect way to do this, for sure. But I have no faith in wizards to pull cool tricks

>tfw no card art by seb mckinnon

>>49253894
You're starting to seem a little clingy.

>>49253900
He's like the guy who wants wizards to sell limited and constructed boosters separately

Pops up in every fucking thread

>>49253927
>Pops up in every fucking thread
Hey, I'm not in EVERY thread.
But really though limited is the only excuse that lets wotc keep the mythic lottery around and is what's killing the game through price gouging on the second hand market

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>>49254056

What's killing MTG is netdecking.

If this game was only for deck builders, 80% of you nignogs here wouldn't get gouged. But because your local meta is all netdeckers, you and your own homebrew get fucked.

>>49254190
This is the single dumbest argument about every card game

>>49253340
>WWWB
>+1 forgive target sin
>-2 target evil creature becomes a 0/1 green pig
>-X fulfil X target prophecies
<1>

>>49254190
>What's killing MTG is netdecking.
Not quite. Netdecking is a symptom, the problem is that a deck with the highest card quality will win over a weaker deck most of the time when extensively tested, so players want to play with the strongest cards for an even playing field.
There's not enough mechanics to truly outplay people, especially in standard.

>>49254213
>This is the single dumbest argument about every card game
There is totally card games that you can do well with using just homebrew decks, although the one I'm thinking of (Duelyst) is part card game and part strategy/tactics so I'm not sure it 100% counts. In that game even a deck with 'cheaper' low rarity cards can beat better decks if you make better tactical plays and position correctly.

>>49254246
>There's not enough mechanics to truly outplay people
Ever play Legacy or Vintage?

>>49254263
I said "Especially in standard" after anon. We're talking about the price of standard and the mythic lottery, in relation to standard.

Legacy and Vintage are expensive for different reasons.

>>49254213

It's true though.

It's the kinda the same reason people don't get into StarCraft/RTS's today. Because the Koreans drove the skill ceiling into outer space, regular people are either forced to study uninteresting things like macro/micromanagement and control grouping and build orders or get fucked with their unoptimised builds and lacking or bad micromanagement.

For MTG the skill ceiling is being driven up by copying net decks and copying someone else's reasoning for the deck.

The better scenario would be lower level of play and higher variety between decks. Everyone would be relatively shit, the better deck builders would shine over bad deck builders and there wouldn't be 70 dollar per orders for a piece of cardboard.

>>49254284
Hey there, just wanted to pop by rq and let you know you're an idiot.

>>49254246
>There is totally card games that you can do well with using just homebrew decks

Those are called non-competitive games. Whatever card game you are talking about I would bet has

>a small audience so the best decks are found later

Every fucking game on planet earth played competitively will be optimized at some point. There will always be a meta strategy.

You have to be a complete fucking retard to think there is a magical game where everyone builds their deck in a cave with no light and plays against other people who built their deck in a cave and also they both have no long term memory so they don't remember what they faced and there is no internet or social media for this game at all

Literally kill yourself

>>49254284
>and there wouldn't be 70 dollar per orders for a piece of cardboard.
The pre-orders would be a lot less than $70 if they didn't have mythics though. The real issue to tackle first is mythics, not net-decks.

>>49254307

At least I'm right.

>>49254312

I bet you play League of Legends.

>>49254284
Why don't you just net deck the pros and top 8 every event?

Oh wait because that isn't how it works at all

>>49252835
EDH is quite frequently 1v1.

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>>49254331

What does this have to do with card prices?

You fucking retard dumb-o, go play yugioh.

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>>49253715
>Indian Dwarves

Boner beach in boxer-bay, all available units proceed with caution.

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>>49254370
>beach
Breach, fuck it all.

>>49254329
Are you actually retarded?

First I don't play shitty assfaggots but you have to be insanely dense not to notice there is a meta for any game that is taken competitively at any point

>meta for CS:GO
>meta for literally every fighting game
>meta for fucking chess
>meta for fucking Monopoly
>meta for Magic
>meta for SC2
>meta for literally any game that can be speedrunned
>meta for running a marathon
>meta for cooking a steak

I'm sorry you want to live in a world where everyone is bad at something on purpose so you fit in

I implore you to blow your brains out with the nearest gun available to you

>>49254390
You are a buzzword spouting imbecile.

Do you know what a meta is?

Because you think a meta is the same thing as the optimal way.

Drink a cup of bleach, chucklefuck.

>>49254364
>card prices

The fuck does that have to do with netdecking

It's like supply and demand. I guess without netdecking demand would be lowered a tad but Tarmogoyf and fetchlands wouldn't be in the dollar bin either.

>>49254426
>Because you think a meta is the same thing as the optimal way.
Not him but meta is an acronym for "Most effective tactic available"

>>49253715

Probably.

>>49254426
>Do you know what a meta is?

Apparently you don't

Why don't go to some modern event with your tier 20 meme brew and come crying back about how you are actually better than everyone

>>49254429

Yeah, I think we are talking about the exact same thing. Supply and demand.

What I'm talking about is bad players that think they're good players by copying good players. Shit-tier pay-to-win net deckers are inflating card prices, because they want to win without getting good.

If they got good, cards like Thalia might see play in other decks than Death&Taxes and her price would be lower. Possibly significantly lower, because D&T isn't that obvious of a strategy to invent, compared to something like merfolk or infect.

>>49254436
Meta is short for 'metagame' you ignorant jackass.

>>49251237
How does liquid metal coating make the new chick an artifact after you sac the old one?

>>49254499
>Local man talks out his ass, disgraces entire town.

>>49254501
Look, dongus, the coating is to make the first Saheeli an artifact so her -2 allows her to copy herself, and her ability makes the copy an artifact.

>>49254436

Most effective tactic available is a backronym for Meta. Like how Gentlemen Only Ladies Forbidden is a backronym for golf.

Meta is short for metagame, where there is a dominating tactic and that tactic has a counter to it.

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>>49254457

Why don't you take a Syrian refugees cumshot into the forehead. I heard your mom does that daily, and it's doing wonders for her skin.

>>49254551
>Meta is short for metagame, where there is a dominating tactic and that tactic has a counter to it.

That's not what it means either idiot. "The metagame" is simply "the decks that get played where you live". By knowing the metagame, you know how to build your deck and what to sideboard in to counter any of the decks you're likely to be up against.

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>>49254670
>>49254581
>>49254551
>>49254516
>>49254508
>>49254501
>>49254499
>>49254482
>>49254457
>>49254441
>>49254436
>>49254429
>>49254426
>>49254390
>>49254389
>>49254370
>>49254364
>>49254341
>>49254331
>>49254329
>>49254316
>>49254314
>>49254312
>>49254307
>>49254284
>>49254275
>>49254263
>>49254246
>>49254227
>>49254213
>>49254190
>What's killing MTG is netdecking.
>This whole retarded "discussion"

READ

THIS

RIGHT

NOW

(PIC RELATED)

And stop being retarded.

You fucking piece of shit snowflakes with "But Im special I do it different :(((" are pure cancer.

I hope a bus kills you on your way home.

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When I read the firsttwo lines on this card I was dreading a Collected Company 2.0
Thank fucking god it's garbage.

>>49254710
Calm the fuck down spike.

>>49254713
Could find a place in something like modern elves desu

>>49254710
But anon, net-decks ARE incompetent engineers, they just copy card for card whatever list gets printed on SCG/MTG top 8 ect.

>>49254710
>I want my game to be like a job

Okay fag, but there are some of us who bought into that "game of exploration and discovery" trope and shits like you are why we can never have nice things.

>>49254733
I think there is a fundamental confusion about what one means by netdecking

Yes, simply copying a SCG / GP / PT Top8 deck is lazy and stupid, but is also likely to not work for the purposes of playing at your LGS. Since the decks at the events are tuned to perform in whatever metagame their pilots expect, it might not work for your local metagame. If this is what you consider netdecking, netdecking is stupid.

However, some people consider tuning the deck to local meta an integral part of netdecking, and with that in mind, netdecking isn't so stupid anymore as it requires knowledge of both local metagame, awareness of what cards will help you achieve your goals and what cards will hinder you

So I guess what I am trying to say is that you have to agree to a definition of what consists as netdecking before arguing about it

>>49254331
But it is.
I wouldn't win at FNM until I netdecked Mono Black Devotion because I liked it.
Suddenly I was top 2 every week and even won five game days during RTR-THS season.

I was playing with opponents of a similar skill level but my deck was homebrew shit and theirs were PT top 8ers. As soon as I evened the playing field I was 4-0 instead of 1-3 with a bye.

>>49254713
Found my prerelease foil promo

>>49254713
What the fuck is happening with this card?

The """"""best"""""" scenario is just finding 2 of the same creature and giving one to each you and your opponent

What?

>>49254713
So...now, gruul charm makes sense.

>>49254710

Go take a look at those messages you quoted and the discussion is about card prices.

>>49254713
>Set Carrion Feeder, Gravecrawler and dumb mana
>Challenge for Zulaport Cutthroat and Blood Artist.
It is CoCo 2.0 only this time for combo rather than midrange.

>>49254804
Actually the best case scenario is giving your opponent a detrimental card by chosing only one minion, but then it says your opponent "May" choose one of those creatures so you can't even do that.

>>49254827
Also if you put like I dunno a Goldnight Castigator your opponent just has the option of not picking it and instead giving you it. Or if you hit 2 of them you are equally disadvantaged?

I just don't even know

>>49251963
No you nincompoop, Wizards is clearly going to reveal that instead of a red one there will be a devoid one. Because we need mecha eldrazi.

>>49254788
Wow sounds like you'll be in the hall of fame in no time then!

Nice job anon

>>49251313
Anything longer than it is wide, if you're a women's studies major.

>>49254857
>The red one is devoid and costs red mana
>red finally gets a new mechanic in having the best 'colourless matters' synergies
I wouldn't be too mad even if it doesn't fit red's flavour.

>>49254713
>letting your opponent take and use your creatures

Cucks will love this card.

>>49254713
Wow this is "harness the storm" levels of terrible

>>49254752
Please tell me exactly how we can live in a world without no netdecking

You can't and you won't

Off yourself faggot

>>49254710
>"But Im special I do it different :((("
>proceeds to make the most obnoxious, worthless post in the entire thread

lmao

>>49254888
No you just won that award chief

>complaining about netdecking

That's part of the "I just went 0-4 at FNM with my new awesome brew :(" starter pack!

>>49254713
Just think of all the black creatures that can horribly ruin the board in your deck. Give opponent one or yourself, still clears the board; or your opponent has an upkeep cost that can't be paid.

>>49254884

It's simple: We ban the internet. Now what, fagbabby?

>>49254888
But don't you know. Instead of making his own interesting bait he just looks at successful bait and copies it.

>>49254911
>Target opponent MAY chose one
Sorry, your idea don't work.

>>49254908
>defending netdecking
That's part of the "I have no idea how to build decks because I'm a shitter Spike who just wants to throw money at the game and win, thanks SCG!" starter pack!

>>49254913
>go to tournament
>get beat by guy playing a lot of robots
>build a robot deck
>friends test it with other decks they like or saw
>improve
>go to tournament and win with new robot deck
>other friends and people at the event copy my robot deck

I guess in addition to banning the internet you'll have to blindfold everyone and men in black technology mind wipe everyone after every game they play so nobody remembers each others deck. Also having friends or a play group is also banned.

Great solution faggot

>>49251237

>fold-to-bolt.dec

>>49254932

It's simple: just print a whole new set of cards every few months and ban all the old ones. Now what, doublefaggot?

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>>49254923
When was the last time you won any event?

Oh wait you never won an event

Too bad. Keep on believing! And remember "everyone that's better than you isn't playing by your arbitrary rules so you are actually better!"

>>49254941
>Oh wait you never won an event
Nice assumptions :^)

>>49251237
>The_Prestice.dec

>>49254804
giving your opponent a creature with a ETB or static effect that is not relevant to him but it is relevant for you ( note: it's your turn, so giving bonuses to attacking creatures or haste is good).

making so that the enemy creature will be an inefficient blocker ( example: when this creature attacks you can spend energy to give it +1+1 ensure you beat enemy constitution).

bouncing it

>>49254954
It's a fairly obvious multiplayer card.

>>49252763
That just sounds like an addiction.
>just need one more fix
>cold turkey now makes you lose more life

>>49254968
>the more all nighters you pull, the harder you crash later

>>49253095
>eldrazi go to Kaladesh
>judges show up, hold up a sea of signs each of which says "0/10"
>eldrazi run away crying in some cold corner of the Blind Eternities

>>49254713
question: inw hich order to the come onto the battlefield and trigger ETB effects? can i choose?

>>49254977
More like
>eldrazi go to Kaladesh
>wasteland a bunch of land
>judges march over to the Eldrazi forces, start critisizing the landscape
>"Look at this, nothing but fucking bismuth and dust, not a single spiral, 0/10"
>Eldrazi go home in shame

>>49254994
Opponent gets their creature first, then yours so I assume they get their ETB on the stack first?

>>49254968
>>49254975

Except you don't suffer more for having multiples in play, 0 is 0 no matter how many of them you have. It's more like juggling, you keep it going longer and longer but when it ends you still get to keep the balls.

>>49254190

>implying 90% of the good decks wouldn't look the same anyway

MTG isn't some sort of a big mental puzzles. A lot of good decks build themselves. The only difference would be the level of optimization between players.

Only bad players blame netdecks of their failures. They live in some misconception that without netdecking all of their opponents would play some jank.

>>49254994

His etb's, then yours does. RTFC.

Could we have maybe had something resembling a decent thread this time around? I mean it was fine until that one anon went absolutely postal.

>>49255003
>Except you don't suffer more for having multiples in play,

>Whenever you discard a card you lose 1 life
With 4 our you're drawing 5 a turn and losing 4 life per discard.

>>49255002
>Opponent gets their creature first, then yours so I assume they get their ETB on the stack first?

i am trying to think of something with the white titan where they either get fucked or get fucked.

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>>49255012
>forgetting where you are

You need to go back

>>49255014
Don't bother anon, it's a MAY choice for if the opponent even gets a creature. You will only be outplaying idiots.

>>49255015
Oh I know where I am.

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>>49254390
>meta for fucking Monopoly

You have my attention.

Why can't Simic get a fucking good card?

>>49255032
Certain properties are more likely to landed on so are more valuable.

>>49255032
>>49255042

Also there is not a constant gradation between cost of houses and the income brought in, some are simply not worth the investment (I'm looking at you, Yellow and Green).

>>49255032
there was the strategy when you by as much hmes as possible, since there are 32 of them, and you lock players out of both hotels and houses, afterwards you grind them to dust, the longer game gets.

>>49254938
>wins with fow or pact

>>49255052

The strategy is to never upgrade to hotels and so monopolise (kek) the game's supply of pieces.

>>49251313
Thats now how your circumsize a penis

>>49255056
exactly

>>49254713

>fixed collected company

>>49255014
>i am trying to think of something with the white titan where they either get fucked or get fucked.
No, run the blue Hulk, and Unsubstantiate/Just The Wind whatever they take.

>>49255076
>They take your blue hulk and recur their own spell
Bravo.

>>49252543
when youre done with him you can throw him away and make the opponent have a baby sized hand after you drew all the cards

>>49255087

What, on turn 7 or 8? Chances are he's topdecking by then anyway, giving him this just makes him stronger.

>>49253048
>ill ignore R&D when they say the ability is parasitic, that will make me right

>>49254940

It's called standard.

So, when's the whole Kaladesh set gonna be released on Gatherer?

>>49254710
What's killing magic is neckbeards like those we have on /tg/, MaRo was right and I want all of you to die.

>>49251313
You should go see a doctor about that.

>>49255190
>MaRo was right and I want all of you to die.
You know anon, you're just as bad as that guy making a broad statement like that.

I just like magic because I think the comboes are fun.

>>49255190
>He's not a neckbeard
The only one who needs to die here is you anon.

>>49252148
If you put it all on the Gearhulk you have just spent five mana on an easy to deal with 8/8. If you have several other big creatures to spread the counters around on you were probably winning anyway.

>>49254713

Classic design overcorrection.

CoCo broke standard, so instead of making a fixed version or simply ignoring that type of card they make a shit one as if to "apologize" for making a broken card.

>>49255223
We're all going to hell together.

>>49255258
Feels like a card design they had leftover from conspiracy.

The thing about netdecks is that there is literally LITERALLY no way to deal with them at all in any single way made enforceable by any player, any community, or any organization

>>49254713
>not three creatures
is it because of "muh power level", or giving haste to Emrakul? Even as an instant it could do some work, but...

>>49255329
>wanting another card like CoCo to be printed ever again
>one without mana cost restriction no less
Fuck no.

What would you do to make Magic cheaper?

>>49253018
Don't worry. You're a moron, I'm sure it's not the first time you're real confused about something.

>>49255348
remove mythics

>>49253555
volt charge works better with red planeswalkers

I just realized you can make the Green and Black Gearhulks work in an Abzan Deck with the Reservoir and a Angel to blink the Black Gearhulk

Just use the first abilityof the Green Gearhulk to make it a 7/7 and another creature a 4/4, then cast the Noxious Gearhulk targeting the Vedurous Gearhulk and blink it with the Angel targeting the 4/4 and you should have enough life to fire the Reservoir.

>>49255348
make it so that non-basic lands can actually fill the land slot in a pack instead of giving us useless lands that fucking no one uses packs to get

just make it the same rarity ratio if need be

>>49255348
No mythic rarity.
Demolish reserved list.
From the Vault: Original Duals, pre-ordered directly from WotC so the print run matches demand.
Print more reserved list cards in future supplementary sets.

That would solve most of the problems of price gouging.

>>49253108
Ancestral Recall is indeed shit if you ban all blue mana sources.

Those Eldrazis are played in Legacy, mate.

>>49255380
>>Those Eldrazis are played in Legacy, mate.
Because they have mana sources that produce twice as much mana as a regular land with little to no downside.

>>49252148
I'm already hype for blue-green flicker fun

>>49251187
Ferocious Gearhulk
3RR
Haste
When you cast ~ if it was from your hand deal 4 damage to target creature unless that creatures control has ~ deal 1 damage to his or her self.

6/2

>>49255455
>punisher effect
>High attack haste with no trample
>the one side of the punisher effect isn't as strong as the other
10/10 Perfectly captures the spirit and history of red card design t.MaRo

>>49255258
It's still broken, you dig way deeper so that you can look for combo pieces and it works by playing it in combos with reduntant pieces such as aristocrats like that anon said except he's stupid, you don't want your opponent to have a choice between an artist and a cutthroat but you don't care much if he gets to chose between husk and bloodthrone or viscera seer and cartel aristocrat or kitchen finks and murderous redcap or anafenza and melira.

>>49255002
>>49255009
Both creatures ETB at the same time. Then the ETB triggers happen following the AP-NAP rules. The active player's triggers go on the stack first, followed by the non-active's player(s) ones.

>>49254713
I, for one, like this card. It seems fun to play.

Also other than putting creatures in the battlefield and having the same cmc this card is nothing like Company.

>>49255423
And that's also why Workshops decks exist. So?

>>49255455
>3RR
>Shitty punish effect
Into the trash it goes

>>49255348
Print the duals at uncommon in a Conspiracy set.
Return to pre-NWO common power level where a lot of decks were 65 common utility cards worth $0.25 each, 4-8 $5 nonbasic lands and 4-5 $10 bombs that weren't the same in every deck.
Erace Jace the Mind-Sculptor from the collective memory, the only reason cards preorder for ridiculous prices as they do now if because stores "lost" money selling him for $12 before he was playable.

>>49255500
The cards would be unplayable without the colourless lands that enable them. If they were printed in green for example, they wouldn't be nearly as good because you couldn't drop all your mimics turn 1 and a thought knot turn two, smasher turn 3 ect.

>>49254710
(You)

>>49252272
>>49252571
Its because people are fucking retarded. They see that 50usd price tag and assume the seller knows more than them and it will be worth that much.

>>49255514
And MUD wouldn't exist without the lands. Yes. So?

>>49255564
So the cards on their own aren't good dipshit, the good cards in the deck are the lands. The Eldrazi only become good BECAUSE of the lands. That's what he's saying.

>>49255537
There really is no winning with retailers. I skipped buying Liliana at release because she isn't a $30 card but a store's sponsored team put her 4x in their decks and did well at an event then everyone auto-assumed you absolutely need 4x Liliana to play that deck and she went to $40.
Now that they sold their stock and the scam is complete, she's down so they can buylist her cheaper, but people don't want to move her because "she's too good".

They did the same with fucking Tibalt of all things.

If the card is good, they'll ransom them high, if the card is bad they'll put their hired pro monkeys to win despite having 4 underperforming cards just so they can gyp people anyway.

>>49252028
>About four years ago at the theros party at pax, I asked magic head designer Mark Rosewater if we’d ever see an Indian themed set. He said they’d never make a top down set because the tropes weren’t understood by the masses, and folks wouldn’t get it, because it lacked resonance. 4,000 years of culture, but ok. He said if they did it it would be a bottom up set with an indian overlay.

Fucked up but true, they learned a hard lesson from Kamigawa,they need lore the common man(read:white American) can latch on to.

Whole post is right, I am glad someone is calling wotc on there bullshit fake progressiveness

>>49252028
I like how the post considers Theros an accurate, faithful representation of antiquity-era Greek mythology and culture

>>49251652
Titans? Inferno is probably the 2nd most playable in constructed.

>>49255576
What anon is saying appears to be that it does not matter wether its the lands or not that makes Eldrazi good. Fact is, the lands do exist and Eldrazi are great in a multitude of formats.

If this'd be the case were the lands not to exist mot only does not matter (because they do exist), but it is impossible to prove simply because the Eldrazi deck would have undergone a fundamentally different evolution we can't fathom from this point of time.

>>49255686
>simply because the Eldrazi deck would have undergone a fundamentally different evolution we can't fathom from this point of time.
An evolution into the fucking trashcan, sure.

>Fucked up but true, they learned a hard lesson from Kamigawa,they need lore the common man(read:white American) can latch on to.

Don't bring race or gender into this you fucking weeb nigger wetback beaner spearchucker carpet muncher dyke.

>>49253691
>Is it right to go for the popculture visions of these cultures?
It's what makes WotC money. If they had decided to go a similar route as with Kamigawa with Kaladesh then that may not have been offensive to the average Hindu, but the average burgermuncher that buys the majority of the product would be left confused, feel stupid, and start to resent the game for making him feel that way.

You know what Vehicles gives an opportunity for?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1cnit1irjY
We could probably hammer something together from Commander, Conspiracy and Planechase.

>>49253349
But it's said right here

>I couldn’t believe it. What the hell even was this. There were people with indian names, coloration, hairstyles. The buildings were all weird mughal architecture that had been splattered with a million colors, as if the artist had seen one picture of the Taj Mahal and the movie Aladdin, and then decided to spray paint them together.
>It was an amazing anime, but it was not Indian. Or even india. All of those buildings and clothing styles were persian, not indian. And over and over I was told “We didn’t want to offend anyone. We didn’t want to step on real beliefs, or real cultural influences, or do anything to make anyone mad.” So no four armed vedalken or elephant headed loxodon or gods. Fine. But then they kept going. No snakes. No monkeys. No rakshasas, no indian birds, no cultural markers of any kind at all. Literally just the skin.

>But wait, isn’t that the representation you wanted? look! they look like you, and hell one of them even has your surname! it’s totally indian, dude, stop looking for something wrong, or something to hate, and enjoy this set quietly.
>No, it is not what i wanted. Not what i’ve waited my whole life for. This isn’t me, or my people, or anything to do with me.

Also Shivan is a dude.

>>49255696
That cannot be proved by any empirical means. That's the point.

I mean, I too think it'd be noticeably worse. But that cannot be expressed as an objective truth, which is what matters.

>>49255913
But they didnt even need to to Hinduism India is fuck huge diverse, they easily could have thrown in some Indian animal looking shit or more accurate buildings or even throw in some terms.

I mean why the fuck is the mc of an Indian themed set a white girl doing a scottish dance?

Basically they were doing an inventors set and not an indian set; thus Dwarves because they are classically artificers, the Aetherborn as living smog, Elves as botonaists, Gremlins because they are fictional being tied to fucking with machines and Vendalken because we needed something blue.

Mtg is a fantasy set so they couldnt really delve into india mysticism too much because that shit is peoples actual religions so it limited them a bit.

>>49255913
>>49253691


And so—for example, if you say you’re going to do Japanese culture. And I write down everything I expect to see. Well, you know, ninjas are pretty high. Because even though ninjas in actual Japanese mythology are very tiny part of what’s going on, they are a very big part and they’re resonant of most people playing the game.

Because most people playing the game are not super enfranchised in Japanese mythology. That they know the surface level but not the deep level. And one of the problems that Champions of Kamigawa had was they went pretty deep. Like, if you really knew Shinto and a lot of the religion, they did a lot of cool things that you would recognize. But the problem was, they didn’t do enough stuff that was easily recognizable.

And that’s one of the tricky things about resonance is, resonance isn’t reality. Resonance is perceived reality. Meaning what the audience knows is not the same of what really is. And part of trying to do a resonant set is, yes you can do faithful things that are realistically there. But you also have to do some stuff that’s perceived to be there.

And that’s an important point, which is you have to meet some expectations. Otherwise, the funny thing is, the audience feels like you’re not doing what you say you’re doing because even though you’re being faithful, it doesn't feel correct to them.

And that’s the tricky part of—you want to kind of be faithful to your source on some level, but you also want to make sure you’re faithful to the perception of the source. And that’s another thing that’s really important is design, is one of the quotes they talk about is “perception is reality.”

>>49256067
MaRo is a hack

>>49256067
something else I want to talk about, which I think was one of the failings of the set, and it had to do with the names. I admire what Brandon was up to—Brandon Bozzi, who did the names and flavor text, in that he was trying hard to give the names a real strong feel. And I think he did do that.

I think that—I think the plus on the names and flavor text was they did have a Japanese feel. The downside was that one of the points of names and flavor text is as handholds for recognition. You know. That a card has a lot going on, but if you can anchor all the idea of the card in a singular name, that people can share, then you have a concept people can talk about.

And names do a lot of important work. They—names not only help you remember a card once you know it, but they also help you figure out what a card is. That you don’t really think about this, but names sound different. And one of the problems with Champions of Kamigawa was, for the first time, we really didn’t do that.

That the names had enough of a foreign-ness that, you know—I mean the classic example is Counsel of the Soratami. Okay? Because we actually had this in the core set for a while and it caused a little bit of problems. Which is “What card type is Counsel of the Soratami?” You know.

And what we found was, well it depended on how you spelled the word “counsel” (council)? You know, like it didn’t—like obviously, if you understood that well, you know, c-o-u-n-c-i-l is a group of people and c-o-u-n-s-e-l is advice given by somebody, you know, but the problem is you would hear the name and go “Council of the Soratami,” and you’re like, “Oh, well I guess the Soratami got together?” And like “Oh, no no no, it’s the advice of the Soratami, who are telling you “Hey, you get two cards.” You know.

>>49256122
And that—the set literally—I didn’t do this, but if I just started calling off names, you know—especially lesser-known cards, cards that didn’t end up being in Constructed, and said “Okay, name this card type,” Kamigawa would do the worst of any set I can remember, of you being able to identify the card type. You know.

Usually, for example, you know, instants are verbs. Like you see a verb, you go, “That’s an instant.” Sorceries and instants are verbs, and enchantments are nouns, and artifacts are things, and one of the problems of Champions of Kamigawa was it was trying to be, you know, you know, “It Who Suffers.” Well, It Who Suffers. Well okay, it suffers, oh, does that mean—I’m making names up, by the way, that wasn’t actually a card. But it’s the kind of thing where like, “Oh, It Who Suffers, well, okay, I guess it’s a creature, because only creatures suffer,” but then it’s like “Oh no, it’s an artifact that—it suffers, you know, thematically.

The set had a lot of stuff like that, where like, you just—you couldn’t—and one of the things you’ll notice is, as evidence of what I’m trying to explain is, people were famously bad at remembering the names of the cards from—from Champions of Kamigawa. That just like, “Oh, what’s that name again? What’s that name” Because it didn’t have the handholds to remember.

And that—by the way, real quickly, I did a whole podcast with Matt Cavotta about—oh, no, I haven’t done names yet. We did one about flavor text. But Matt and I will do one about names. One of our future carpools.

But one of the things about names—you’ll get a little preview of what you’ll hear us talk about. Is that names have all this function, and that a lot of what goes on in the creative on the surface looks like you’re just trying to make things look pretty, if you will. But there’s a lot of functionality. A lot of the rules of the name and the art are helping people shortcut and identify what it is they’re using.

>>49256122
And when you start muddying that up, you start realizing that “Wow, it’s hard remember—there’s a lot of cards to remember.” & that without all the little sort of mnemonics of the creative to help you, it becomes very hard. And this is a set I think where Creative—especially in the names, sort of fell down a little bit in that role.

Okay, next is Counsel of the Soratami. Oh, so I talked about this last time, but there’s a little story that I want to tell. Which actually has nothing to do with Champions of Kamigawa. It has to do with the core set. But it involves Counsel of the Sora—Counsel—yecch. Counsel of the Soragami.

So one of the things that we’ve gone back and forth on in the core set is how much is the core set supposed to represent sort of generic Magic, and how much is supposed to represent specific worlds that we’ve visited.

And so Counsel of the Soratami got put in the base set because—the core set, because we’re like “Oh, well, hey, it represents Kamigawa. This is a very—you know, it’s not—it’s not—it’s not a boring, you know, it’s a very flavorful card. And it represents, you know, the world we visited Kamigawa."

But the problem,as I explained with Counsel of the Soragami is that people didn’t quite know what it was. It sounds like it’s a creature, I know it’s spelled differently, but it—if you just hear the name, it sounds like a creature. The picture has this—a woman on it,you know, & so she’s just like “Oh, what’s this woman? What’s she doing?” You know. And the answer is, “Uh…”

Like, here’s a similar funny story. Way back in the day I used to play Land Tax. For those that remember. Very, very powerful card. And Land Tax has on it a man holding a bag of money. And it’s an enchantment, so you put it in play. Because it has a guy, everyone would try to Bolt it. Because—“That guy’s annoying me. I’m going to Bolt that guy.” And it’s like, “It’s not a guy, it’s an enchantment…” Anyway, Counsel of the Soratami had the same sort of feeling.

>>49256130

Fuck off Mark.

File: Image.ashx?multiverseid=50296&type=card.jpg (28KB, 223x310px) Image search: [Google]

28KB, 223x310px

>>49256147
Eight-and-a-Half Tails. So this is one of those cards—so something I’ve talked about previously, I (???). When I say that we need to be careful about resonance in doing worlds inspired by real mythology, that doesn’t meant that I don’t think there’s a place to dig a little deeper and find stuff that’s true but unknown.

For example, Theros definitely has some actual Greek mythology that you know what? The average person probably doesn’t know. The difference between Theros and Champions of Kamigawa is, Champions of Kamigawa put the unknown in your face, in common. It came up constantly, like “What?”

Where Theros says, “You know what? We can do that, but we can do it at higher rarities. We’ll do it at rare.” You know. “We’ll do it so they come up more infrequently, and when they do, you go, ‘Ooh, what is that?” Not like—so, it’s the exception and not the rule. And I feel like when you’re doing resonance, the rule, the commons, even to some extent the uncommons, need to be the expectations, what people expect. But the rares and the mythics might be a place where you can sort of educate a little bit.

Like I do like the idea that people play Champions of Kamigawa and learn things about Japanese culture they did not know. That’s awesome. And same with Greek mythology, we want to do that. But what we’ve learned is, in this lesson of Champions of Kamigawa, is that those educational lessons can’t be the cornerstone of the set.

You know, when you have a common doing things that no one understands, it just makes it confusing. If you have a rare that does that, it’s like “Oh, well it doesn’t come up that much and you learn about it.” Like, it gives you a chance to learn the world before you learn the sort of—the teaching cards, if you will. And I like those.

>>49256147
>>49256130
>>49256122
>>49256067
>tl;dr Kamigawa was too hard on poor casualshitter's brains
Fuck off Mark, hope you crash on your way to work.

>And Land Tax has on it a man holding a bag of money. And it’s an enchantment, so you put it in play. Because it has a guy, everyone would try to Bolt it.
REMINDER THAT IDIOTS THAT TRY TO BOLT LAND TAX ARE WHY WE HAVE NWO
THIS IS WHAT WOTC DESIGNS FOR NOW

>>49256169

It's because dumb people spend money like idiots that they're so valued as a customer.

>>49256159
And I had fun talking about Champions of Kamigawa. It was up and down. I mean, it was not the high point for Magic. I have said before that I think the block might be the low point for Magic design as a block. I mean, Homelands is probably the least—Homelands is the lowest set, as far as design, but I think Kamigawa is the lowest block. So…

And there’s a lot of debate on—like on my blog about people who love Kamigawa, and how dare I say that Kamigawa is not that great, and the reality is we use a lot of metrics, you know, we look at—at market research, we look at Magic Online, we look at sales, we look at tournament play. I have a lot of social media, I get a lot of emails—I mean, we have a lot of means to get feedback.

And the reality was, this was—set was a miss. I’m not saying people didn’t love it, I’m not saying there weren’t fans of it. I’m not saying that it—it didn’t do some things correctly. Because everything—you have to look at things, things will go right, things go wrong, I think this set did some things right, and we did borrow some things from it. But it did more wrong than right.

And I feel that—kind of looking back on it, I like to think of it as a block where we learned a lot of lessons. I talk about how your mistakes help you grow and your mistakes help you better, and that you don’t always learn from successes as much you learn from your mistakes. Well, this was a very, very educational block.

I’ll do other podcasts talking about Betrayers and Saviors and we learned plenty there too. And like I said, I’m not trying to be down on it in a sense of—I know there’s people who loved it. There’s people who love everything. And it’s awesome that people loved it. I know there’s people that really got into the Japanese and that weren’t put off by it, and that’s great. And there’s people that learned a lot about Japanese culture and that’s great. And I love the fact that people love this set.

>>49254713
This is a card VERY aimed at EDH or other multiplayer games. Just cast that and tap your Homeward Path to get the creature back, it's basically 5 mana to get the 2 best creatures you can find in your top 10, the only con to it is that you don't get whatever ETB that your opponent chose.

>>49255056
>>49255052
Well, yeah, if you managed to buy enough houses so that your opponent's can't even buy a hotel, you have already won.

>>49256185
It is just my job as the guy who makes the set to be honest and say, “Were we successful?” And to be successful, part of that means that we make our audience happy. And we did not. We did not make the majority of the audience happy. And so in that regards we failed in the set. This block.

>>49256182
>>49256169
But he's right. If 90% of your audience doesnt gets something it makes no sense to go all in on it just for that other ten.

I'm not going to serve beef steak at a vegan conference of 100 people just because 5 of them brought meat eating dates. Like he said you can do "learning" cards, shit like Hundred handed one and Theros but you cant build your entire set around obscure flavor.

Especially because the actual mechanical design suffered because Randy kept vetoing any and everything that didnt fit his vision of shinto gone wrong.

Which formed a great irony in that despite being so flavor driven the gameplay didnt actually reflect the flavor.

What about playing with kamigawa FELT like japanese myth.

Innistrad went out of the way to build in tension and the like into gameplay; Theros pushed devotion to a certain color (literally a philosophy) for the worship vibe , New Phyrexia was built on cards feeling just evil as fuck. What about Bushido made youf eel liek a samurai.

They get power with fighting? It's mtg EVERYTHING fights.

Spirits come back from the grave? But Kami arent even ghost spirits like in the west they are manifestations of abstract concepts.

What the hell is splice onto arcane?

Ninjitsu got into that by playing like a tricky surprise but they chose to hold it back for the second set like idiots.

>>49256169
>REMINDER THAT IDIOTS THAT TRY TO BOLT LAND TAX ARE WHY WE HAVE NWO
Nwo is more about pulling complexity away from having to understand cards and boar state algorithm and more into playing the actual game. Understanding what the fuck is going on is not part of a good game design's challenge.

Fucking EXPERTS were walking out of Lorwyn because of how tribal wound up.

>>49256169
And I had fun talking about Champions of Kamigawa. It was up and down. I mean, it was not the high point for Magic. I have said before that I think the block might be the low point for Magic design as a block. I mean, Homelands is probably the least—Homelands is the lowest set, as far as design, but I think Kamigawa is the lowest block. So…

And there’s a lot of debate on—like on my blog about people who love Kamigawa, and how dare I say that Kamigawa is not that great, and the reality is we use a lot of metrics, you know, we look at—at market research, we look at Magic Online, we look at sales, we look at tournament play. I have a lot of social media, I get a lot of emails—I mean, we have a lot of means to get feedback.

And the reality was, this was—set was a miss. I’m not saying people didn’t love it, I’m not saying there weren’t fans of it. I’m not saying that it—it didn’t do some things correctly. Because everything—you have to look at things, things will go right, things go wrong, I think this set did some things right, and we did borrow some things from it. But it did more wrong than right.

And I feel that—kind of looking back on it, I like to think of it as a block where we learned a lot of lessons. I talk about how your mistakes help you grow and your mistakes help you better, and that you don’t always learn from successes as much you learn from your mistakes. Well, this was a very, very educational block.

I’ll do other podcasts talking about Betrayers and Saviors and we learned plenty there too. And like I said, I’m not trying to be down on it in a sense of—I know there’s people who loved it. There’s people who love everything. And it’s awesome that people loved it. I know there’s people that really got into the Japanese and that weren’t put off by it, and that’s great. And there’s people that learned a lot about Japanese culture and that’s great. And I love the fact that people love this set.

>>49256250
It is just my job as the guy who makes the set to be honest and say, “Were we successful?” And to be successful, part of that means that we make our audience happy. And we did not. We did not make the majority of the audience happy. And so in that regards we failed in the set. This block.