>Thrallherds have no alignment restrictions I only recently

>>49247919
Remember how you can be a painfully good guy in Overlord, despite your minions, dark tower and spikey armor?

File: 1471516034656.jpg (639KB, 1352x932px) Image search: [Google]

639KB, 1352x932px

>>49247933
>You will never headpat literally Satan into submission

>>49247919
You do it as a paladin for a god of justice who believes in forcing evil to do good. You only take as thralls criminals who deserve death (highwaymen, murderers, the odd serial rapist), and you use them to go about thwarting other evildoings and increasing your herd.

>>49247919
Extremely stupid, just like all thrallherds.

File: 5669141[1].jpg (13KB, 204x200px) Image search: [Google]

13KB, 204x200px

>>49248147
Good job, you just made me imagine Jesus as a Lawful Good Thrallherd. Yes, I'm fucking mad.

>>49247919
But op, a utopian collective where everyone is united in a common purpose and well cared for is the very definition of Lawful Good.

>>49248147
>Paladin
>Thrallheard
You need to be a 5th level manifester t begin taking thrallheard levels.

Not to mention that YOU don't get to decide who is your Thrall. You send out a super subtle psychic signal that just "clicks" with certain people.

>>49248812
The Kalashtar race gives you both the Mindlink power and a manifester level equal to 1/2 your hit dice (minimum 1).
You can take the Practiced Manifester feat from Complete Psionic (+4 manifester levels, up to a maximum equal to your hit dice) to make up the difference.
Then all you need is 8 ranks in Knowledge (psionics) and the Inquisitor feat.
Remember that you only need a one level dip in the Thrallherd prestige class to get your thralls. If that's all you care about then you don't really need to take further levels to advance your manifesting.

In this way, it's possible to gain the Thrallherd PrC with any character class. So you could play as a Paladin Thrallherd without a psionic class dip if your race is Kalshtar and if you can get trained in Knowledge (psionics).

Don't do this though, because Paladins suck. Play a Crusader instead, and use White Raven maneuvers to get the most out of your thralls.

>>49249084
I'd like to add that you can get Knowledge (psionics) training through the Knowledge Devotion feat from Complete Champion. Even without high intelligence, you may as well since you can also use it to get a bonus to your attack rolls.

I just realized though...

...You also need Psicraft skill training to get Practiced Manifester! That could be a problem.

>>49249221
I got it!

Ask the GM for a psionic option for the Apprentice feat from DMG II and take that at level 1. Use that to get training in Knowledge (psionics) and Psicraft.
Take a flaw from Unearthed Arcana and pick up Inquisitor. Take a couple more flaws just so you can make sure to get the feats Crusaders need.
Put 4 ranks in Psicraft and pick up Practiced Manifester at level 3.
Get 8 ranks in Knowledge (psionics).
At level 6, you can take a one level dip in Thrallherd. Use your White Raven maneuvers to optimize the shit out of this.

>>49247919
America

/thread

>>49248266
I actually had a thrallherd cultist whose nihillism stemmed from how weird thrallherd was.

You can have your paladin follower murder his mother, and he'll do it, and he'll fall, and he won't even be in this weird hypnotic state he just will because you said so. And you can then have him kill himself, and he will do it, just cause you said so.

And someone else will take his place in like a month. And if everyone else in the group is replaceable for no reason, what about him?

You become a nihillist when your entire power is "Everyone is dispendable and who they are dont matter"

Well there's always the option of playing a thrallherd that doesn't realize what they're actually doing to those people

>>49249326

And if you want to get extra silly...
Having a manifester, even without levels in a psionic class, qualifies you for Psicrystal Affinity. Take that at level 6 when you get your Thrallherd level.

Your Psicrystal's hit dice are equal to yours. Your Psicrystal also gains feats as it gains hit dice (one at level one, and another at every third level) so you can give your Psicrystal three feats.

Being level 6, you could give your Psicrystal the Leadership feat.

So you're a Kalashtar Crusader 5/Thrallherd 1 with a bunch of thralls, and a psicrystal with its own cohort. And you can use White Raven maneuvers to buff everybody.

File: 1228373041505.jpg (99KB, 400x550px) Image search: [Google]

99KB, 400x550px

> "Those who follow me do so out of the knowledge that justice is not attained through idle hands. I do not question why they come to aid me; instead, I ask why others have stayed behind."
> "I see your thoughts, and they are impure. Come, let me help you cleanse them."
> "You ask yourself if you have the strength to fight this evil. Lean on my strength instead."
> "The gods have seen fit to grant me these abilities. If I am unworthy, I pray they shall strip them from me."
> "Those who cannot think have no use for fear. Without fear, evil is robbed of its greatest strength. Every thrall made is a hammer blow against evil."
> "Penance requires action. Others would kill my thralls for their misdeeds, for they could never be trusted to hold to the ways of law and goodness; instead, I give them a chance to serve a greater justice than they could ever know. And with the passage of time, when my will becomes theirs, perhaps true atonement can come at last."
> "My legion is a better teacher than any prison. What cannot be taught through pain is taught through love."

>>49249326
Allowing flaws is like the first indicator someone should have their DM license pulled

>>49249591

Shit, I might follow this guy myself.

How would you guys stat a Thrall NPC class?

I'm thinking...

Proficiency with simple weapons, shields, and
light armor
Full BAB
d8 hit dice
Poor Will and Reflex saves
Good Fortitude saves
Gains psionic powers and power points at the same rate as Psychic Warriors, but uses Intelligence instead of Wisdom to determine power points and selects powers from the Psion/Wilder power list.
Gains Thrall Bred (from Lords of Madness) as a bonus feat, and the Share Powers and Telepathic Link supernatural abilities while they are within 30 feet of their special charge.
Class skills: Concentration, Craft, Profession, Climb, Jump, Swim, Handle Animal, Ride

>>49249934

Naw, just give the NPC's flaws. It balances out.

File: nephenee_en.png (227KB, 528x376px) Image search: [Google]

227KB, 528x376px

>>49249471
I imagine it's like being a Lord in Fire Emblem. People just sort of gravitate to your side and will die for you after a short conversation.

Though being Fire Emblem NOBODY IS ALLOWED TO DIE.

>>49247919

He uses his minions for good, telling the scum of the Earth that they too can be heroes if instead of murdering people they lend them a hand.

>>49250448
I agree with every part of that post.

t. save-scumming pansy

>>49247919
Builds communities and encourages empathy
Makes communism actually fucking work
Takes care of their thralls and believers, and their extended family/emotional support networks etc
Leads expeditions to new and exciting worlds
Won't order anything that they wouldn't do themselves
Has no idea that they're a Thrallherd and just try to lead as best they can
Randomly goes on sojourns alone and vanishes, only to return with new and greater revelations
Examines their own abilities to find ways to release people or only 'call' those who really need it
Never get around to actually finishing Conduit

>>49250448
>>49251992
I usually play two files at once. One where I live with the consequences, and one where I save scum as much as needed.

>>49250448
Nephenee a best

>>49253603
Nepenee a shit

File: FESS_Vanessa[1].png (137KB, 194x386px) Image search: [Google]

137KB, 194x386px

>>49253603
For reasons I do not understand Vanessa is my EmblemFu, even though so many girls do the "female knight" thing better.

>>49253645

Not that anon. Alright, who do you prefer then?

>>49249934
In 3.5, you need flaws for a bunch of concepts to come online before 12. It improves the baselin competency of characters, which is good, because a bunch of classes are pretty incompetent as baseline at low levels.

>>49250164
You don't. Thralls are classed NPCs like cohorts are. Followers are NPC classed normal people.

File: FE8 final team.jpg (3MB, 4320x1896px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 4320x1896px

>>49253656
Because every other run she doesn't get RNG fucked and becomes a mobile death fortress.

File: Ragman Suit of Souls DC Comics.jpg (340KB, 580x280px) Image search: [Google]

340KB, 580x280px

Something like Ragman.

File: potato.jpg (100KB, 400x400px) Image search: [Google]

100KB, 400x400px

>>49247919
I'm thinking... 'tard wrangler. Coaches his dumb misshapen brutes in life skills and learning when NOT to fight. Until it's time to fight, of course. Then he just points them in the right direction and watches them hulk out.

>>49249934
I allow flaws with the stipulation that they are incorporated into the roleplay or are actual flaws that impact the character. If it looks fishy I ask them to show me how it impacts them and hold a quick test RP.

I like flaws because they can lead to interesting situations and its fun to watch the players overcome their disabilities.

>>49252250
This immediately reminds me of Overlord.

>I warped your mind to make you love me!
>But I love you, what is the problem?

>>49247919
trash.

>>49249084
Check out the "A" Game Paladin build, it manages to get +4 bard song which is a significant boost to this build concept. You may not want to use Illumian, however, so you just ignore the spellcasting.

File: 1401544201327.cached.jpg (451KB, 2000x1333px) Image search: [Google]

451KB, 2000x1333px

>>49249344
>America
>Lawful
>Good

Not till it starts following it's own rules
t. Texas

>>49258256
Shouldn't you be forcing your children to learn creationism in school or something texas?

>>49259119
That would violate the 1st amendment, pigfucker

>>49259317
But anon, this is a Christian nation.
:^3

>>49259334
>"Separation of church and state" - the founding fathers
>"My kingdom is no part of this world" - Jesus

You know what we do with traitors and heretics arounds these parts, anon?

Why is Thrallherd so based?

There are enough natural subs in life it's hard to think it's just fetish bait.

>>49248072
Does headpat simulator have any hand holding?

>>49247933
So a LG Thrallherd gives his thralls pancakes, while a CE one gives them sandwiches?

>>49259477
I'm still kind of waiting for someone to take the refrence of god out of the pledge and money again, but of course if you complain about it people will just say "BUT IT DOESN'T REFERENCE CHRISTIANITY SPECIFICALLY SO IT'S TOTALLY COOL TO KEEP THAT EVEN THOUGH WE ONLY PUT IT IN BECUASE COMMIES IN THE 60'S!"

ree and all that jazz

>>49264244
What was wrong with E Pluribus Unum?

>>49264458
not enough jesus

>>49264458
See >>49264496 becuase the Russians were seen as anti-theists so we decided that we were gonna try to put god in everything because we couldn't be secular if they were gonna be secular or the world would explode, possibly literally.

>>49264244
Lets be honest, America is one of the most Theocratic Nations outside of the Middle East or the Vatican, let's not forget one of the two major parties has said they said, as a part of their platform that "religion must be used as guide for legislation" and "teaching the bible in public schools".

They also want "pornography declared public menace" but that is neither here nor there.

File: 1420577289025.png (158KB, 512x512px) Image search: [Google]

158KB, 512x512px

>From Many, One.
Isn't that the perfect Thrallherd motto?

>>49264622
I'm sick of it to be quite honest. I personally think anyone who says that they decided to go into politics because they heard a voice from god tell them to should be barred from the contest on grounds of insanity.

I have nothing against religious people, but that's just fucking nuts.

>>49264244
I'm not 'murrican myself, but I say that if you people have Jesus as an integral part of your traditions, you should keep him there. If for nothing else, then to keep Allah away.

>>49264689
But they don't believe it, they just say that to seem more relatable to crazy people.

>>49259477
Give them a Megachurch and millions in donations?

>>49264689
What about the ones who go into politics because they heard a voice from a Thrallherd?

>>49256955
Tard wrangler isn't much of a stretch, they already exist in real life.

File: jesus_laughing21.jpg (31KB, 429x547px) Image search: [Google]

31KB, 429x547px

>>49247919

>>49264622
>They also want "pornography declared public menace" but that is neither here nor there.
The american views on sex have been spiraling off into insanity ever since the first wave of feminism. Making whores illegal is just stupid.

>>49266593
>implying the incarnation of satan on earth who mind controlled people into writing books to create religious wars was LG

>>49259477
But yet, your betraying the original foundations America was founded on a separation of church and state because of the many wars that were started in Europe because of it. England also used the US has a dumping ground for religious and political nutcases at the time.

>>49268138
>used as a dumping ground
Odd, they sure didn't make it seem that way when they tried to take back the U.S.

If it was just a dumping ground, you think they would have wanted Australia back.

>>49247919
Impossible.

The twisted grasping soul of these individuals is stained blacker than night by their works, no matter their other deeds. They need to come to The Iron Maiden and find peace in penance.

>Ardarvia Victrix

>>49268400
Oh come now, plenty of people have an urge to serve and let someone else handle the hard parts, just like plenty of people quite enjoy the responsibilities.
And then both sides enjoy the perks of the relationship.

>>49268490
How can you have a Dragon without some loyalty and will to serve.

>>49247919
He gives the lost and the broken a purpose, a guiding hand. Those who had nowhere to go and nothing to live for suddenly find themselves satisfied serving this complete stranger, who directs them in various ways that serve to make the world a better place. They have no idea why they find doing these good deeds so rewarding now, when such efforts in the past turned to ash upon their tongue, but they've finally found contentment.

>>49258209
Neat, thanks!

I prefer T3-only campaigns, but the guys I usually play with like the more familiar classes. Any ACF's I can find that can step up class tiers would be great for them.

>>49257505
I mean... you can't argue with that logic can you?

Didn't know about the Thrallherd before this but I am rolling a lvl5 bullshit custom Psion/lvl1 Thrallherd now.

[Spoiler]I'm the forever DM and she always pull this shit with rogues and dumb races when she plays, so yes I am vindictive and petty :([/spoiler]

>>49270705
You can also do this with a Wilder 5 if you take Hidden Talent for the Mindlink power, or use the Kalashtar race.
Wilders use Charisma to determine their pool of power points, and Thrallherds need Charisma to determine the number and level of their followers. So, you can play a Wilder 5/Thrallherd for less MAD.

>>49270807
I recommend a custom character who is a thrallherd from level 1.

>>49248147
Ironically, you could do this as a follower of a Lawful Evil god as well.

Acting as an agent of the state, which is also the church, you sieze them to be used to labor in compensation of their crimes for the people.

I mean, you're not going to be directly helping them, but you will be helping the state/church and that's ultimately of more value than whatever they lost.

In fact, I would probably Thrall the mayor or whoever was in charge. Citizens and their belongings are all property of the State that the merely have licenses to operate. After all, the State gave it to them in the first place, and they owe the LE God for their very existence, and the State is just an extension of his will on Earth so that we don't rack up any more debt by making him get involved.

And they've gone and let damage come to the States assets, and let harm come to the Worshippers of the Church. Who's going to reimburse the LE God of the miracles of healing? Not the dead people, because of your failure they actually died before they could pay back what they owed for use of the States assets, and while their soul returning to the LE god balances out that debt, he also owns the State so there's some left over.

So it ISN'T enough to remove him for incompetence, he now has to pay those debts. Not just for the State, but also for the souls of those he failed.

LE is best alignment.

>>49274975
I'm pretty sure that's just Lawful Neutral.

The real best alignment.

>>49275119
No, Neutral would allow for restitution to be made back to the individuals. The key part is that because the Church and the State are the same thing, there's no ultimate separation of obligation.

That, and you're born *owing* the God for your very existence, and you aren't able to actually own anything because you're just leasing everything from the State so you have to pay THEM back first. Of course, you don't generate anything by maintaining the Status Quo, so you have to show measurable and tangible improvement to the assets that you have leased from the State and are in your Care.

And that's before we factor in the additional costs you have to the state above and beyond repaying the debt of the State letting you lease their assets.

You gotta pay back the State for the order it provides, for the infrastructure it maintains, for the wonders it builds in glory of God, for the protection of the military.

How you gonna do that? I hope you're not going to try and sell the States production back to it, like some shifty grifter. There's a SPECIAL punishment for that.

Personal transactions are forbidden, because you're primary debtor is the State and the God, whose representative is the State. So failure to produce isn't just you being a burden on everyone else, but also a moral failing.

This is where the necromancy comes in. After you have died, you can still continue to toil to pay the remainder of your debt to the state.

All your God wants is for you to be the best you can be, to help others and stand tall as a true man, not as an equal to God but at least being capable of distinguishing your existence as having worth, as opposed to animals and poor Heathens that cripple themselves by refusing to pay their debts.

Actually, even your death and all your worldly accomplishments can never pay the God back truly, because it still all comes ultimately from him. But he's nice enough to let the attempt count. Towards it.

>>49275345
I mean, after your undead corpse has finished the remainder due you left at death, he'll just absorb your soul and take the hit on the inevitable wear and tear that you put on it. Yes, he has to wait for your corpse to be laid to rest. Doesn't count unless the soul is bonded to it the entire time. Of course, for lower undead that means you're essentially trapped in your body while it performs its duties. Don't worry, it doesn't use your soul for fuel like some say, that's the Gods soul. Heathens, son.

His strength is infinite, as is his capacity to give, so he can afford it. Maybe one day people will advance far enough to not always be shorting him pennies on the soul, and he can actually be proud of them in themselves, instead of accepting that they're doing the best they can and being . . . proud . . of the effort, I guess.

TL;DR It's evil because everything is owed to the God, and not only are you unable to actually see any benefit from your own labour, but it's not ever going to be enough anyways.

The only way to get relatively ahead is to move up the hierarchy of the Church. You can't even actually backstab people, because God owns them too and you would be wrecking Gods shit. People that do that are called to account right quick, and converted into Undead (along with their victim. He has no rights to resurrection, that goes to God.)

Even then, that's just so you can stop sinking. There's no "afterlife", either you are reabsorbed and obliterated, or you prove yourself useful enough to be raised as a higher level undead. The top earners are actually rewarded by leasing a slice of divine power directly from God, and act as his living avatars to guide the undead flagellants, and to husband and shepard the shard so they can be a source for miracles and such instead of him. They're responsible for replacing it, and not by using State property like the souls of the peasants no matter how good a deal it seems. That's what Heathens are for.

>>49275345
>>49275549
All of that is about paying debts. It still sounds profoundly neutral, because no one is really exploiting the system except the supra-being that created everyone. And he can't exploit a system any more than a person can exploit the cells that make up his body.

Even original sin can be made mostly neutral-ish.

>>49275119
And if it seems like I'm handwaving with "Heathens" don't worry. God knows that their souls are also owed to him, and he understands that we are limited in what we can convince them to pay back.

War is bad, because it risks Gods citizens and Gods undead field workers. At best, you still have to use Gods miracles to heal people if you somehow manage to avoid casualties.

So the Church mostly works as a trade hub and financier. Undead armies aren't cost effective, but what they have found to be a reasonable compromise it to allow people who default on their debts to the State to instead act as bondsmen, and work under the supervision of the States "Southern Emerald Forest Corporation" for a period of indentured servitude. While labor is always an option, they tend to have their bad habits follow them and try as their supervisors might to set good examples of frugality and thrift, many of them spend excessive amounts of their income at the Company Store. Which has the silver lining of easing the burden on the State of providing for them, but it's still regretful that they struggle with their weakness.

Converting is an option, but surprisingly few take it, being unable to meet their obligations head on, and instead insisting on stopping once they repay the lesser temporal debts, refusing to accept that there is no real barrier between existence and God.

So the other option is to sign up for military service, with a clause that they are in service to God for the duration. So if they do die during service, while their bodies are lost, their souls are at least saved and put towards their debt.

A popular option, given the States aversion to war. True, there always do seem to be policing actions, repossessions and seizure of assets, but the State has only gone to war once in its existence and is devoted to peace and prosperity.

File: home-mrn.jpg (29KB, 230x210px) Image search: [Google]

29KB, 230x210px

This is how you Lawful Good Thrallherd.

>>49275659
The "Evil" part comes in to play that the God claims to be responsible for everything. He's not. Sorry, I thought the whole "alignment rules" thing kind of implied that there were other Deities for the other alignments,.

And he has it set up so that nobody ever gets out. Death is only an escape when you are finally granted oblivion.

Nobody has any intrinsic value or worth. If I slight you, you aren't compensated, because the LE God comes in and says "Well, I fucking own you anyways, so instead you should focus on paying me back".

At best, you would get begrudging healing so you could be an effective producer again.

True, a lot of times there isn't a difference. Your house burns down, you have to rebuild a new one because that's God's house, you just have to eat the debt for the cost of it rebuilding it, and be fined for being negligent and failing your duty requiring the State to spend it's time and resources.

The best end you can get is being a Representative locked in to an unfavourable contract and devouring souls from heathens to sustain yourself, and even then if you aren't growing the divine shard you're falling behind, time ain't free.

It's not original sin, it's original sin with compounding interest.

I came up with it a couple threads ago when we were trying to make a LE god of Healing. Essentially mine was all about that, because it's just taking care of what he considers to be his stuff.

But if he saves your life, he charges you double your life. Because he feels you already owed him yours.

File: Captain of Industry.jpg (28KB, 400x307px) Image search: [Google]

28KB, 400x307px

>>49275779
Fuck you I won't do what you tell me.

But that's okay, because Mr. Rodgers accepts is for who we are, and knows that not everyones path being the same doesn't mean they aren't all just as valuable.

Just so long as you are being the best person you can be, he's happy with that.

>>49275848
And that's why I would follow him through Hell and strife and back.

Man, I came into this thread expecting some happy mind control and munchkining.
I got religious debate and higher politics with a side of Noblesse Oblige.

>>49275861
Yeah, but that's a choice you make of your own volition not because of creepy ass mind control.

Hell, he would probably take you aside and get you to try to be more independent. Because that's how you grow. He wouldn't want you following him, but walking beside him as a friend.

>>49275868
That's because mind control is shit. It's boring as fuck, so you talk about the ethics and such that exist around it.

>>49275973
And that's what makes him LG rather than LN.

You are choosing to walk his path because it's the right thing to do.

But you are still walking his path.

And there is nothing wrong with that.

Is it easier for the thrallherd to be evil or good?

>>49276853
Evil.

>>49277217
But why? The good thrallherd will have more people because on average people lean more towards not liking evil.

>>49277247
they have the same number of people and spending any amount of time as a thrallherd with that amount of control over multiple folks tends to have a pretty massive corrupting influence on someone, absolute power and all that jizz

and course an evil thrallherd can justify using his thralls as the disposable meat puppets they are

>>49247919
>It's for your own good.

File: Y3ItNUG.jpg (95KB, 496x813px) Image search: [Google]

95KB, 496x813px

>>49249344
You aren't even trying are you?

>>49247919
Is there a 5e equivalent?

>>49279051

Necromancers can control a hundred-ish skellies if they want to.

File: 1408471649223.jpg (121KB, 1280x720px) Image search: [Google]

121KB, 1280x720px

>>49279073
That is... way too spooky.

>>49279102
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6-ZGAGcJrk

File: 7b790dc085f926711d97d4b85c99f51d.jpg (108KB, 800x1067px) Image search: [Google]

108KB, 800x1067px

Expanded Psionics Handbook, page 153
>A thrallherd who has just entered the
class sends out a subtle psychic call for servants, and that call is answered. Essentially, the character gains something akin to the Leadership feat (see page 106 of the Dungeon Master’s Guide), but with some important differences. Those who answer a thrallherd’s call are not referred to as cohorts and followers, but rather as thralls and believers, respectively. They do not appear because they admire the
character and want to serve her, but because a hidden psychic resonance connects the thrallherd and her servants


Player's handbook, page 43
>No one ever chooses to be a paladin. Becoming a paladin is answering a call, accepting one’s destiny. No one, no matter how diligent, can become a paladin through practice. The nature is either within one or not, and it is not possible to gain the paladin’s nature by any act of will.

Makes you wonder.

File: 1445140295603.png (37KB, 440x400px) Image search: [Google]

37KB, 440x400px

>>49280684
>Deities are just epic level Thrallherds

Dreamscarred press has a PF thrallherd that is basically identical to the original

File: Joe.png (477KB, 466x1278px) Image search: [Google]

477KB, 466x1278px

>>49249344
>/threading yourself

>>49247919
He's not lawful good for long.

Thrallherds might not have alignment restrictions but that doesn't mean that being a Thrallherd is lawful good.

>>49282474
Oh great, an anon who doesn't get alignments.

>>49282474
>Kings are evil because people follow them.

>>49283560
Thrallherd is a mind-control class, anon.

>>49283734
No they aren't, they only obtain followers who want to be led by them.

That's what the thread is about.

>>49283560
Choosing to follow a person is one thing. Thrallherds explicitly mentally control masses of people, bending their will to the Thrallherd's own.

>>49282756
Pretty sure to find that anon you'd have to look into a mirror.

>>49283942
You should try reading the class before you say more stupid things.

>>49283936
No, they are mind controlled. More subtly than most, but it's still mind control.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/thrallherd.htm

>They do not appear because they admire the character and want to serve her, but because a hidden psychic resonance connects the thrallherd and her servants.
>hidden psychic resonance

>and those who are more mentally pliable show up later to take up roles as thralls and believers.
>mentally pliable

It might be the difference between, in oWoD terms, Dominate and Presence, but that doesn't change that fundamentally the Thrallherd is psychically impelling his thralls and believers.

The description of the prestige class in the XPH makes this even more clear:

>Thrallherds manipulate the minds of others as if they were clay in the hands of a sculptor. Some creatures are more susceptible than others to the thrallherd’s unconscious, but continual, call to service. And so they come, eager to be led, happy to follow, and completely under the thrallherd’s control. In this way, thrallherds keep a minor menagerie of enthralled servants that are anxious to do their will.

>>49284014
>>49284014
No, you. And I'm not being memey when I say that, I mean, you actually need to read the damn class.

Here, this is a good start: >>49284047

>>49280684
Makes me kinda want to run a game where thrallherds are nascent divines that can ascend if they get enough believers.

>>49284047
>Thrallherd is an (Ex) ability, not (Sp) or (Su)
>Basically just the leadership feat, but finds people who are more naturally loyal
>inb4 leadership feat is mind control

>>49284047
These people are not mind-controlled, the thrallherd learns spells that specifically mind control them at certain levels.

Don't forget the
>And so they come
>EAGER to be led
>HAPPY to follow

They are like soul mates, they have a psychic resonance that completes them so they work to complete it.

>>49284074
Next we'll be saying that any chemical influence like affection is mind control.

>>49284074
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm

>Extraordinary abilities are nonmagical, though they may break the laws of physics. They are not something that just anyone can do or even learn to do without extensive training.

The fact that Thrallherd is an (Ex) ability does not mean that it isn't mind control.

>inb4 leadership feat is mind control

The devil is in the description. Leadership talks about personal magnetism and people admiring you and coming to follow you based on your accomplishments and reputation.

Thrallherd, by contrast, explicitly talks about psionically impelling creatures, albeit usually subconsciously. It still directly states that the Thrallherd is subverting the creatures' natural impulses to instead service his own.

>>49284119
>It still directly states that the Thrallherd is subverting the creatures' natural impulses to instead service his own.
Nope, if you make false claims then: it specifically says that it is Satisfying the creature's natural impulses.

>>49284119
Why does locating and using natural urges mean subverting them? Exploit maybe, but definitely not subvert.

>>49284136
>Thrallherds manipulate the minds of others as if they were clay in the hands of a sculptor. Some creatures are more susceptible than others to the thrallherd’s unconscious, but continual, call to service. And so they come, eager to be led, happy to follow, and completely under the thrallherd’s control. In this way, thrallherds keep a minor menagerie of enthralled servants that are anxious to do their will.

What.
In the name of God.
Is unclear in this sentence.

It is copy/pasted right out of my .pdf of the XPH. Do physical copies say something different?

>>49284196
>What is unclear
>And so they come, eager to be led, happy to follow
As well as the overall description of it.

Just because they manipulate the minds of others in their class description doesn't mean it's talking about the Thrallherd (Ex) feature, it's talking about the literal mind control they gain which is explicity a separate ability from that.

>>49284196
They come to an unconcious call to service because they want too, it's just like >>49280684
>Becoming a paladin is answering a call, accepting one's destiny.

>>49284196
It's a call, not a compulsion, similar to the one Paladins hear. The actual Thrallherd ability is written in such a way that thralls and believers aren't forced to come and are instead naturally willing to serve.

Thrallherds do get multiple mind control abilities, but the signature Thrallherd ability is specifically written to avoid mind control implications.

>>49284225
>>And so they come, eager to be led, happy to follow

Did you not read the lines before that?
>Manipulate the minds of others
>Continual call to service
>Completely under the thrallherd's control

Do you know what the definition of thralldom actually IS? Slavery. It's being a slave. A thrall is someone who is morally or mentally enslaved by some power.

Stop trying to justify Mindslaver: the Class as lawful good. It just doesn't work.

This really is a despicable class.

Which is why I want to be one. For those of you defending it, please be honest with yourselves.

>>49284331
That's a description of the overall class, and not the thrallherd ability.

>It's being a slave.
There are literally people who enjoy slavery. People enjoy being led by others, it's a tribalism callback in our brain.

You could even argue the military is an example of this, where people enjoy the contentment of always knowing what needs to be done and someone else making the decisions for them.

>>49284354
Anon, you're wrong, we can be as honest with ourselves as we like.

Is being compelled to eat a piece of cake because your stomach bacteria crave it and release the right chemicals inside of you despicable?

>>49284263 >>49284282
The paladin is called but can explicitly choose not to answer, as well as is able to choose to stop being a paladin at any time.

There is nothing to suggest that the slaves of a Thrallherd get the same choice.

> but the signature Thrallherd ability is specifically written to avoid mind control implications.

As I said, it's a subtle mind control, but there is no reasonable doubt that it is mind control. The Thrallherd ability outright states that the thralls do not "want" to serve her, but instead that a hidden psychic resonance connects the thrallherd to her servants.

>They do not appear because they admire the character and want to serve her, but because a hidden psychic resonance connects the thrallherd and her servants.

Because I actually graduated English class I know that the "admire the character and" part can be removed and still form the same complete intended sentence. I.e.,

>They do not appear because they want to serve her, but because a hidden psychic resonance connects the thrallherd and her servants.

It's EXPLICIT, for Chrissake. The thralls do not want to serve the Thrallherd, they are compelled to do so, but in a way that is worded carefully so as to prevent spells like mindblank from protecting against it.

>>49284405
>They do not appear because they want to serve her, but because a hidden psychic resonance connects the thrallherd and her servants.
Because I actually graduated English class I know that the Do Not Appear means that they don't show up because they want to serve, they show up because of a hidden psychic resonance.

The reason they show up is a different matter from why they work for the Thrallherd of course.

>>49284466
THEY DO NOT WANT TO SERVE.
IT'S RIGHT THERE.
THEY DON'T WANT IT.

OWN UP TO THE FACT THAT YOU ARE PLAYING A MIND RAPIST.

File: 1449709449162.jpg (31KB, 360x339px) Image search: [Google]

31KB, 360x339px

>>49284485
Nope, you're just cherrypicking the wording.

They don't show up because they want to serve, they still want to serve, but that's not why they appear.

It's basic reading comprehension.

>>49284405
Nothing actually says they are compelled, is the point. What it says is that they serve because they want to answer the call.

I would prefer if it was explicitly mind control, personally, because I like mind rapist: the prestige class, but it's still written in such a way that thralls are being controlled because they want to be, probably to justify the lack of alignment restrictions. It's vaguely avoiding calling the ability mind control and specifically separated from the ones that force people to do things against their will. The intended implication is that believers are following of their own will and just answering an advertisement.

They're just supposed to be natural subs.

>>49284506
>Nope, you're just cherrypicking the wording.

And you're not? Everything else about the class outright states subjugation and slavery via mass mind control. But, oh, naw, not the Thrallherd (literally "gatherer of slaves") ability since it's JUST vague enough that if you squint and ignore the entire rest of the class and everything about it, it can be interpreted as merely calling for people with an enslavement fetish.

Grow up and own the fact that you like a morally repugnant class.

>>49284689
No, it does not say that the want to answer the call, subconsciously or otherwise. It says a hidden psychic resonance connects them to the Thrallherd. There is nothing about the thralls having a natural inclination for slavery. They might "answer" a call but nothing suggests that they get anything remotely resembling a choice in the matter, and the entire rest of the class' abilities and fluff strongly suggests that they *don't*.

File: Keanu Reeves is an anagram for Eureka Seven.jpg (50KB, 420x431px) Image search: [Google]

50KB, 420x431px

>>49284692
>>49284728
>It doesn't say what it says
What? This is a copy-pasted quote.

>Thrallherds send out a resonating psychic call, a call that urges those who may be actively or subconsciously seeking someone to guide them, control them, or lead them to come to the thrallherd. These followers of the thrallherd are completely loyal fanatics who will follow the thrallherd’s instructions completely.
>may be actively or subconciously seeking someone to guide them

The fuck are you on?

>>49284728
Mechanically, if anything would happen to you against your will you get a saving throw. The Thrallherds ability doesn't, suggesting thralls are either just that subby, or Thrallherds are the most OP thing to exist and enslaves people with no chance to resist.

Yeah, they're mind rapists and we all know it. That's the point of the class. Even so, the actual ability is intentionally vague for no other reason than that this argument can be made. I'd rather it just be available to any non-good alignment and outright say it's mind control, but the fluffs calls them slavery fetishists. It happens.

File: 1439858924774.gif (1MB, 300x225px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 300x225px

>Urges those who may be actively or subconciously seeking someone to guide them, control them, or lead them?

Was that... was that just blowing the other anon the fuck out?

>>49284773
That wording is not in the XPH nor the d20 SRD. Where are you getting that from?

Hang on, maybe I know...yup, it's Pathfinder. I strongly dislike that there are multiple versions of this class and that apparently we're arguing about all eleventy billion of them at the same time.

Anyway, two points. First point

>may

Which also means "may not".

Second point: there is still nothing there about the thralls a) getting a chance to refuse the call, or b) having the option of leaving their thralldom if they no longer wish to be part of it.

>>49247919

Now do a Chaotic Good Thrallherd

>>49284896
There's no reason for them to need to refuse or have the option because they literally don't want too. Regardless of mind control. It feels good and completes them.

>>49284889
Nah, it was a simple confusion between the exact wording of the source.

It changes the perspective, although you could still play the base 3.5 one as LG.

>>49284933
Today I learned that apparently people never ever change their mind, ever.

Yeah, right.

You also missed the part that it only says that they "may" be like that. The Thrallherd ability can and does snare people who have no innate desire to submit to the Thrallherd, and the same ability does not give the Thrallherd any ability to be discrete in the kind of Thralls he ensnares. He is just as likely to slave someone who doesn't want it as someone who does by the class' and ability's description.

>>49284098
... if we are following the affection = mind control does that mean that harem protagonists are actually thrallherd's that don't understand their power?

Now I want to play that, an unwilling thrallherd who hates the fact that all these people come to him to lead them but doesn't know how to turn it off.

>>49285068
>He is just as likely to slave someone who doesn't want it as someone who does by the class' and ability's description.
>Just as likely
>still cherrypicking and making shit up.

Okay anon, even after being shown >>49284773 you are incapable of changing your mind, we get it.

It's weird that you are able to unironically point it out your defect, though.

>>49285300
>a call that urges those who may be actively or subconsciously

Do you not see the "may be" instead of "are"?

Is English not your first language?

>>49285349
You added in the "equally likely" you stupid faggot. ;)

Just helping you with your tertiary language.

>>49285372
Absent any evidence to the contrary I'm going to assume a 50/50 split and don't feel I'm wrong for doing so. Given how much of the class IS devoted to outright mind control, I think that's downright generous, in fact.

>>49285488
>a call that urges those who may be actively or subconsciously seeking someone to guide them

Huh, if you read the entire sentence instead of ignoring half of it it is really obvious that the call only works on those it describes.
Polite sage for pointing that out.

>>49285488
>In English, it's acceptable to omit the Either

Not when it muddles the sentence. Without an "either" it suggests that the thralls might be willing, or might not be. With the "either" it suggests that the thralls might be actively willing, or might be subconsciously willing.

Since the meaning of the sentence changes with the inclusion of an "either", it would NOT be acceptable to exclude an "either" but then claim that the sentence can only reasonably be interpreted in a way that it can't be if the "either" ISN'T supposed to be there.

I.e., either Dreamscarred Press failed English, OR they did not intend an "either" to be there at all - it's not omitted, it was never there in the first place. And again, given the larger context of how the class functions, it seems far more likely that the Thrallherd was always intended to be a mindslaving class that snags both the willing and unwilling without care.

Own up to your damn slaver class.

>>49285640
>it suggests that the thralls might be willing, or might not be

Wrong.

>a call that urges those who may be actively or subconsciously seeking someone to guide them

It's a call that urges those who may be actively or subconciously seeking someone to guide them.

It makes zero reference to urging anyone else, but says it urges those people.

Learn to read, you stupid faggot.

>>49285726
So the call ONLY urges those who may be actively or subconciously seeking someone?

>inb4 someone is so stupid he thinks that the "only" had to be included to make the sentence understandable as intended.

>>49285726
I'm not the one who's suggesting that words that aren't in the sentence are secretly a part of the sentence, and that other words that ARE in the sentence mean something completely different.

If you want to whip out SAT scores at this point or something go right ahead, but like I said, the wording of Thrallherd in isolation makes it more than probably that the ability can snag the unwilling, and the ENTIRE REST OF THE FUCKING CLASS AND ITS FUCKING INTENT certainly lends credence to the idea.

Are you seriously suggesting that a class that makes a point out of mindslaving has, as its core feature, an ability that CAN'T?

Nice try, jackass.

>>49285913
>*mean something completely different from what they mean in plain English
>*more than probable

Mea culpa.

>>49285913
I don't care about your headcanon supposition and assumption. You're trying to cry about the intent instead of what was said.

It clearly states that they have a call that grabs people who are seeking the servitude.

>>49285974
And it is just as clear that the call grabs those who aren't.

They may be actively or subconsciously seeking someone to guide them. MAY BE actively or subconsciously seeking someone to guide them. MAY. BE.

Or they MAY NOT BE.

English is not so convoluted a language as for that not to be plain as day for anyone who isn't trying to desperately justify their mindslaver class as somehow being potentially "lawful good".

File: 2711993771_139a2fd05f.jpg (106KB, 268x500px) Image search: [Google]

106KB, 268x500px

I think I'm going crazy, I could have sworn that Thrallherd had a nonGood alignment restriction, but it's not in the SRD and it's not in my dead tree edition either.

So what the fuck class had that that I am projecting onto Thrallherd?

>>49247950
the second fixes that by having domination be all about mind control

>>49286123
You're thinking of the mindbender in complete arcane.
They have almost exactly the same requirements but arcane in nature, get telepathy and mind reading, suggestions, and eventually permanent charm and dominate effects.

File: The Party passes through town.jpg (187KB, 1039x621px) Image search: [Google]

187KB, 1039x621px

As a side note, even *if* a lawful good thrallherd were to call those to themselves that would be "unwilling" to serve the cause anyways, wouldn't that still be Gygaxian Lawful Good?
If the thrall was good, then they're happy to have a competent leader and to be able to do all they can to help others.
If the thrall was neutral, they weren't doing much good anyways, and now you can guide them to ways to do good and get a better afterlife. They're doing much better this way!
And if you bent somebody EVIL to good? That's perfect! You can be the guiding force that turns them around and have them repay their sins!

Of course, it would be oh so easy for a lawful good thrallherd to get used to that power, and begin to use it for themselves instead...which would be quite a character arc, but by no means determines that it's impossible for a character to remain a vigilant and true lawful good when getting a few psionically tagged helping hands on the case.

>>49287090
See this is the sort of thing that reminds about how using Planar Binding to kidnap and force an angel into being your pet enforce/toy/etc is an inherently Good act because it's a Good spell.

>>49287138
Don't you also need to cast Magic Circle Against Good to hold it, though? Which is an Evil spell so it averages out to Neutral.

Oh wait you can just use the circle against Law to make it a Chaotic act. Never mind, binding angels is still Good.

>>49288031 >>49287138
Note that Bound creatures may later seek revenge if they dislike the task they have been forced to perform. It might be a (good) spell by a matter of technicality, but that technicality doesn't mean much when a solar shows up with 20 of his friends looking to "debate philosophy with" (pronounced "kihl") you.

It's kind of like how, say, a paladin succubus would be both a Good and (Evil) creature. It's a quirk of the rules, not a philosophical statement.

>>49286036
See >>49285726
And learn to read.