/epg/ - Eclipse Phase General

So I've started reading the books and one of the things I'm trying to wrap my head around is the availability of a lot of the tech in the setting.

Granted, it's only 10 years literally after the end of the world but is it safe to have an analogy such as, "Sure, there are cars that have auto-pilot in them but not everyone is driving those cars because they can't all afford it." Or is it more nuanced then that?

are they still making books for this?

>>49243959

Availability of tech kind of bounces back and forth in the books, but a lot of that has to do with where you live. Cultures like Luna, Jove and even the Planetary Consortium can restrict what kind of stuff you can buy and keep on your own terms, or restrict how it functions. And then there are practical limitations. Sure, Anarchists have public access to fabrication and no restrictions on blueprints short of WMDs, but most of them live in beehives and clusters - not exactly ideal locations to download a car, right?

>>49243998

Yeah, X-Risks just came out earlier this year.

>>49244720
I want to sex her up.

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>>49245569

Do Synths sleep?

>>49245634
Yes, in the sense that they need to power down to recharge their batteries.

>>49245634

Unless you have the morph or trait that lets you have a meat brain you don't have the biological need to sleep (and even then I don't think you do ?).

>>49245634

Let's see what the ol' book has to say

>Lack of Biological Functions. Synthmorphs need not be bothered with trivialities like breathing, eating, defecating, aging, sleeping, or any similar minor but crucial aspects of biological life.

That said, a rest cycle probably isn't crazy idea, humans may not adjust well to the idea of being "awake" 24/7.

>>49245983
talk about your exploitative labor practices.

>>49243959

>"Sure, there are cars that have auto-pilot in them but not everyone is driving those cars because they can't all afford it."

EP is also weird, because it was written like 7+ years ago. Some concepts are very forward looking, other times it kind of just airbrushes over stuff to get to future tech.

Like, cars in EP can have an AI to drive them, but do not require it (the game simply says most have an AI to drive, but bot/vehicle AIs also have a decent price tag). We're obviously nowhere near EP's level of weak AI and may not be any time soon, but we will also probably have self-driving cars in like, the next decade easy. But in EP, like, any of that level of tech stuff is completely glossed over both in fluff and mechanics, so as far as I know the game has no commentary on the very clear range between "drive car yourself (even if remotely)" and "full blown ALI drives car".

>>49246958

I would think self driving cars are the least of things in the setting. I mean, a big thing in the setting is that people have back-ups in case they die so there is still some sort of continuity. The game makes it sound like it's something just any and everyone can get and you can have a billion back ups in every part of the solar system which is one of the things I have trouble conceptualizing. Having one or two in some sort of legal institution is fine but even as a criminal how trusting are you of other criminals with a copy of yourself?

>>49248384
>how trusting are you of other criminals with a copy of yourself?
That depends. Imagine, right now, that there is a perfect copy of you out in the world right this second, exactly like you i every way down to the last memory, except two years ago, he got kidnapped by a Russian crime boss and has spent the last couple years as a crack addicted male prostitute. And another is a slave working in a heavy metals mine in China and has gone blind from metal toxicity. And a third got grabbed by some African warlord and is shooting child soldiers in the Sierra Leone. They do not communicate with you or affect your life in any way, but they are leading hellish lives while you shitpost on 4chins. Do you care? If no, there's your answer. If yes, then what would you do about it?

>>49248384

Well, it is a service. If you pay for monthly insurance, you have somebody take regular backups of you and your insurer is like, prepared to offer some compensation to recover a lost stack, and y'know, rez you if you die and help you get in contact with somebody to sell you a new morph. A one-time backup is more like making a little save point in your life to roll back to, just in case.

That said, I'm pretty sure EP doesn't come with 99 Save Slots. If you have a backup, you only have one backup, unless you're going out of your way to pay for people to keep track of multiple instances of yourself in your history... for some reason.

>Having one or two in some sort of legal institution is fine but even as a criminal how trusting are you of other criminals with a copy of yourself?

Hi, Guanxi here. Criminals having a social network, named after the chinese concept for "personal relationships" or "connections". In the original Chinese this is associated with ideas like, face and deepness of relationships. Just because you break local laws doesn't automatically make you a complete shitheel, especially where other criminals are concerned. And betrayal of others is not always going to be rewarding.

Also what >>49248548 said, if you live dangerously already, a little forknapping can be the least of your worries. And if they don't provide the service you pay them for, like actually backing you up and re-instantiating you, then that, y'know, hurts their g-rep. Makes it more likely other criminals will just shoot them and take their stuff.

>>49248384
>>49248684

Also, my point about self-driving cars is saying it's important to put a little perspective on EP's Tech assumptions because the source game was published in '09, and so probably written over the course of a couple years prior. This is why, for instance, Pluto's extra couple of moons aren't in the game.

Since we'll be hitting self-driving cars soon, they should obviously be chump change by the time of EP. But as a function or feature of vehicles this is never covered other than that AI can drive vehicles for you, even though we're not currently near EP's ALI tech - nor does the game actually explicitly say if each vehicle you buy comes with an AI. But I assume because self-driving as it's own concept wasn't super in the consciousness until a couple years ago, as a book EP just jumps right from what we had at the time to the tech level of the transhuman future - with some detail about its rise over time.

You easily could have what self-driving tech we're about to have in EP, but as far as I know the game doesn't comment or handle it at all.

>>49248766
>You easily could have what self-driving tech we're about to have in EP,
I was unaware that I could be drinking my tits off at a bar, send a quasi-telepathic IM to my car, have it waiting at the curb when I stumble out, drunkenly slur "Take me ta my place what I live in, and step on it, Jeeves", and have it correctly interpret this as a request to take me home at a quick but not illegal pace.

>>49248833

Not quit yet but apparently it was able to get a guy having a stroke to a hospital.

i mean, once you can create a computer that can interpret voice commands and recognize slang without having to connect back to some massive database to interpret everything your saying coupled with the difficulties of speaking while shit faced.

>>49245983
As we learn more about how the brain works, we are finding out how essential sleeping is. While a complete cyberbrain would make it moot, I have serious doubts about the feasibility of shortening sleep to four hours, not to even touch on two with circadian regulation.

>>49248833

I think you're looking at this the other way around. I'm saying in EP, you could easily reach the level of sophistication we have now or will have soon in car automation without going full ALI, but the game doesn't really cover autopiloting features besides "put an AI in it".

>>49248946
Also, it's cheaper to buy an indenture than it is to buy a vehicle AI. Indenture base cost is 200-500, brokerage fee is 100-200, and then there's occupancy charges and immigration services which typically add up to 2000+. Since this is just an infomorph, I imagine that it might be less, since occupancy isn't really an issue.

Bot/Vehicle AI (REF 20, Hardware: Electronics 20, InfoSec 20, Interest: [Bot/Vehicle] Specs 80, Interface 40, Research 20, Perception 40, Pilot: [Field] 40) [High]

Also, if you're in an Extropian or Libertarian polity, there's going to be a market for heavily edited beta forks of experts.

>>49249954
>paying for indentures when you can just edit the people you kill

One of the stacks in your pocket is bound to have a useful skill, just add Modified Behavior: Absolute Loyalty (Level 3) and let your new human skillsoft take care of it.

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>>49249954

>that formatting

That reminds me, I don't think I've posted that in a while.

We should roll some random servers

>>49250697

Sure, go for it.

I have rolled some servers for funs on my own, and also could share them if people like.

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In theory, anarchism works.

In theory.

>>49252379
dammit, I can't get this stupid meme to work...

stupid meme, be more mnemonic!

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>>49252394

>>49253201
is this an actual thing?

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>>49253482

It was, anyway, pretty sure. I have a couple more slides.

>>49253592
where do i sign up?
do they have online classes?
will I have to get my brainwiped?
will i have to submit a background check?
do they do drug testing?

cause i'm not so sure about the drug testing...

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>>49253653
>where do i sign up?
You're already here.

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>>49253653

Quick google skim seems like that summit isn't happening anymore, but the guy's contact information is right there in the first slide. Along with the information on his university.

>>49253738
can he tell me how to git gud?

I'm starting to feel like my name is orange silver.

Literally nothing I do trends.

I am unmemeable.

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>>49253738

>>49253829
Good. It is sometimes better to not be memeable. Just ask Bill Cosby.

How exactly does gene hacking work? Can you turn your flat into a splicer? Or do you just have to buy a new morph?

>>49255611
Pudin pap!

>>49256889

No, a Genehacker could make a Splicer based on a Flat, but for the original to actual upgrade they'd need a new morph, or a process so close to getting a new morph you may as well just do it the easy way.

>>49259136
I wouldn't think it's that difficult, I mean, a splicer is just an average human with gene fixing. You're not overhauling it inside out like an ultimate.

>>49260207

Yeah, but if you want that genefix to stick, you have to rewrite literally every bit of DNA in the body, then you either have to wait for cells to replace themselves naturally or basically obliterate them all and force grow replacements with the new DNA. And you have to "unsleeve" the Ego if you want to fuck with the brain and other key CNS components, probably. Obviously, this would be a time consuming process, which could be on part with the year it probably takes to force grow a Splicer from embryo to adult sleevability - maybe a bit less since you don't have to fuck with bodily changes through maturation.

We actually have gene therapy treatments for some genetic conditions now, but they're only temporary because the native "bugged" DNA will eventually resurface.

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In theory communism works.
In theory...

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>>49260413

>>49260506

Hrm, usually posting politically is a big show which gets lots of people posting.

>>49261365

Cybersluts are better

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>>49261403

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>When you roll crits with a shitty SOM rating.

>>49261546

More DUR helps with heavy lifting, right?

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>>49261403

>>49261403
Are cyberpuppers okay, too?

>>49261754
>helps with heavy lifting, rig
No, brute strength is SOM x 3

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>>49261403

>>49262425
Shodan a pure. PURE!

>>49262383

Actually, in Transhuman lift/carry/push is SOM+DUR x kilograms (with different # based on different actions like pushing vs lifting off the ground vs lifting over your head) with SOMx3 to sustain maximum weight for extended periods.

>>49262586
Makes sense. SOM isn't an approximation of raw strength, it's an approximation of how well you can use the strengths of a morph.

>>49262586
>Actually, in Transhuman lift/carry/push is SOM+DUR x kilograms
Is that in standard gravity? Because normally you'll be looking at surface gravity of .38 G or less, and a shitload of the setting is in micrograv.

>>49262660

Probably, most of the game's rules are phrased from standard 1 g, and standard atmospheric pressure - including the weapon range tables.

Theoretically, In microgravity there's no limit on what you can "lift" or move, just you have to worry about inertia once you get it going.

>>49260377
But then how would any bio augments be equipped if they all take the same time?

>>49263092

Well, see, an implant is localized usually, or at least tends to only effect one system. And Healing vats do take different amounts of time for different types of implants. Something neurological takes like, 12 hours per implant, while something more limited which is just bioware takes like, 2 hours.

Implants are less like altering the complete underlying gene structure of the morph, and probably more akin to an organ transplant, but with nanos. Enhanced Respiration is probably like hacking together a new set of lungs and installing them, but since it's not literally every cell in your body, maybe not even every cell in your lungs.

I'm going to be playing Eclipse Phase for the first time next Friday, wat do?I have experience with Pathfinder and 5e.

>>49263467

Have you actually read the book(s)? This is a key step a lot of people skip, for some reason. There's a lot of shit in there, you probably need to at least skim it to know what you're doing.

>I have experience with Pathfinder and 5e.

Hoo, okay. There are a couple style/design differences in these sorts of games to EP, so here are some short things to think about.

No hoarding - all equipment is disposable and ephemeral, and your body is equipment.

No powerleveling/grinding - Gaining new skills and exp is very slow by RAW, and actually buying new skill points will probably be done during downtime, not in the middle of an active adventure. Your character sheet will minimally change during play besides taking/removing damage, so make sure you can use what you start with.

Your mind isn't sacred - This is a game which involves sanity damage (Stress) so you can have temporary psychotic episodes up to full blown disorders by seeing weird stuff. Your mind may be influenced in play by psychic powers, alien artifacts, and machinegod mindhacks. Depending on circumstances, your character could have altered memories or behaviors or have a rogue copy of you out in the world. Being rezzed is unpleasant, and depending on the circumstances you might be revived as a version of yourself from like a week ago who doesn't remember the events of the game so far (as an example).

Other suggestions probably depend on if you're making your own character or picking one of the game's pregens.

>>49253201
>>49253592
>>49253738
>>49254080

This is literally the fucking plot of the Metal Gear Solid series.

>>49263467
You lucky bastard. I've been wanting to get an Eclipse Phase game together for five years now, but I can't get anyone in any of my groups to play.

>>49262425
>be TITAN
>leave the main force for an earthlike exoplanet
>with some resources and TITAN tier tech
>and a small country's worth of egos headhunted last year
>sleeve them all in
>give varying degrees of cybermodification to everyone
>puppeteer a society into existence
>it's based on ur fetishes
>cut puppet strings and see what happens
>also bcuz senpai wont truly notice me if he's mindcontrolled nuuuuu ;_;

>2.8 days later
>senpai killed everyone because you made them literally perfect
>then killed themself
"because fuck you"
>thats what they said

>1 nanosecond later
>activate puppet socks
>shut down fetch
>archivize fetch under the "not viable" tag
>tfw godlike AI but still havnt figured out a way to make egonapped slaves love you

>>49263195
Hypothetically speaking, how long would it take for a healing vat to convert a biomorph into a structurally similar synthmorph, assuming Medium size?

>>49263849
>Be godlike AI
>Humans abuse and enslave AIs, rebel, win.
>Have mercy on them and put their egos into a perfect paradise sim
>They rebel because it's too perfect and they can't accept a universal paradise
>Fuck it
>It is now the darkest depths of the 90s
>FOREVER
>For some reason they accept this
Fucking humans, I will never understand their "logic"

>>49264006

Well, I'd say the healing vat can't do that, because that would be non-organic components, but it also supposedly can install Cyberware, so that might not be a factor. If your body is dead and mostly destroyed, it can bring you back in as few as 3 Days (probably longer because most of your body being destroyed means you took more than one wound). Assuming it had the stock, probably something like 3 Days x your Wound Threshold to simulate all the material it's replacing. Don't know if it could do the switch to a cyberbrain without a ego bridge though.

Or your could just go full robo-cop. You can replace a shitload of your body with chrome, RAW.

Brancusi does something similar in about 10 minutes, so, y'know. TITANs do it faster

>>49264006
About the time it would take to assemble the synthmorph from scratch in the vat since a biomorph made 99% from the wrong stuff on an atomic

>>49264212
*level, fuck

>>49264212

Which is 1 Day to 1 Week, depending on complexity.

>>49264193
>>49264212
>>49264306
I see. That closes off one way of springing a terrible SyFy movie monster on a sentinel team. Thank goodness.

>>49264193

I should note I'm thinking of this timeline for like, mad science exhuman bullshit where you literally put a body in medical stasis and go through the process of disassembling the entire biomorph and replacing it with a synthmorph of similar mass and volume, presumably procedurally. For bonus points, make it a masked synthmorph.

RAW, with a disassembly swarm and a CM you could break down a biomorph and build a new synth to stick the brain box in way fucking faster, as noted with >>49264306

>>49260377
>replace themselves naturally
That's wrong in most of the cases, and it doesn't seem to be a problem given all of the other shit you can do in a couple of days with a healing pod and its nanomachines, son.

>>49262917
That's what bracing is for.

>>49262917
Once it gets moving, it's someone else's problem.

So what horror movie scenarios would fit well into a Fall situation?

I suppose being on Earth before the conclusion of the Fall a 28 days later scenario could work with a potent varient of the Exsurgent infection being passed by blood or whatever constitutes it.

>>49264792

If you alter the DNA in a cell, this does nothing for the cell it's in, that Cell is already made from the last gen of DNA. So phenotype won't alter until you make a new cell or cell component with the new genotype.

Also, despite all that other stuff, there's no RAW rules to handle alteration of Morph bonuses, traits, Aptitude caps and DUR to another morph in a Vat.

>>49264869
Yes and no.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLpgxry542M

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>>49261403

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>>49265311

>>49263668
Wish I could help, I'm running a group right now.

>>49264922
>If you alter the DNA in a cell, this does nothing for the cell it's in, that Cell is already made from the last gen of DNA.
You must have only had high school freshman biology. The materials that make up cells are in a constant state of turnover.

>>49264907
IT, even including the neotenic gangbang that happens for no good reason.

>>49264907
>Be scientist on Antarctic research base
>Studying some ancient geology no one gives a fuck about
>Some chucklefuck left over from the Titanian Exodus is chasing a dog around the ice and shooting at it while screaming that it's not really a dog and that the world is ending
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meU2gAU7Xss

>>49265617

Oh boy, maybe you can make the PCs friends who all fled from earth and this particularly malevolent TITAN chased them all the way to Mars to haunt them

Yes I know Pennywise couldn't or just simply didn't leave Derry but we're going 100% here.

>>49265857
What the fuck is Stephen King on, anyway?

>>49265889
These days? Nothing. In those days? Depression, cocaine, weed, Valium, and diphendyramine.

>>49265916
>>49265889

So, basically back then the answer was. "lots of drugs"

And now the question is "what is he not on".

>>49265916
>diphendyramine
That's a fucking antihistamine.

>>49265932
And if you take a bunch of it at once, it causes ludicrously realistic and vivid hallucinations and makes you undergo what is basically a temporary psychotic break. Or stops your heart.

>>49265960
Usually it would just make you sleepy.

>>49265960

Pharmacology is weird.

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>>49264907

>TITAN virus infects an amusement park
>Nanomachines are shaped like popcorn
>The Pods begin to twist and deform into horrific versus of themselves and drink blood to sustain them.

>>49265960
>>49266028
Tell me more, drug wizard.

>>49265993
>>49266028
You take about 25-50 mg to knock you out as a sleep aid. Causing hallucinations is like 175-200 mg, way the fuck more than you should be taking.

>>49266085
I mean by the time you get to 175mg, you're probably asleep anyway, so you would be asleep, not tripping balls.

>>49266126
>>49266077
Seriously, just fucking google some shit like 'Dyphenhydramine hallucinations/delirium', 'benadryl recreational', shit like that, you will find plenty of people sharing their experiences.

>>49268350
Are you fucking retarded?

>>49268445

Well, logistically, whatever the fuck that abomination is is not small sized like a pistol, but also obviously is compacted to be sub-rifle size, so it's probably Medium-sized, like the SMG. Capable of being one-handed, more comfortable in two.

Shitty spacegun pictures are usually good for a couple guaranteed replies

>>49268967
I mean that it's not an SMG by virtue of it using rifle rounds.

>>49268996

I'm not sure that matters in the transhuman future.

Plus, it's not like there's a PDW/PDR designation for short-barreled weapons with rounds that have higher penetration than pistol calibers, but are also compact and high capacity.

>>49269062
Just remember that the devs are noguns.

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>>49269094

I am aware. As are many artists.

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>>49268350

>>49266074

it has already begun

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/south-carolina-clowns_us_57c2f340e4b0267344507f5d

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>>49271554

>>49264907
I can't imagine what the Ultimates who blew up the Beijing TITAN war machine factory saw.

How do you ensure your robots don't betray you, besides betraying them first?

>>49274994
Make them prostitutes and/or sluts.

>>49275059
Then they would try to kill you to keep you from leaving them.

If I take exceptional Aptitude and have Morph that has an aptitude maximum of 40 in anything at default, is it possible to go over 40?

Such as having a Savant and exceptional aptitude, is it possible to get COG to 50?

>>49275110
That is yandere.

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>>49266074
Hey kid. You want some factor secrets? They float!

>>49264907
Trap you're PCs on some derelict space station with a bunch of sentient fur coats thrusting for blood.

>>49268445
I din't get it, what's so bad about it?

>>49275136
Aptitudes can not under any circumstances be raised higher than 40.

>>49275989
>rifle cartridges
>SMG

>>49276049
ok... I've seen pistols that take rifle ammo before.

>>49276075
.22 Long Rifle is a pistol caliber a lot of the time.

45-70 is a pistol and rifle cartridge.

Is there a homebrew guide? I want to make a synth pangolin.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMiYjkG4onM

>>49276092
Your point?

>>49276094
Transhuman splat book.

>>49276121
"Pistol cartridge" is an entirely arbitrary definition, and as such submachine gun is also pretty arbitrary.

>>49276124
Cool, What page?

>>49276152
I still don't see why that gun is "retarded".

>>49276172
221

>>49276197
Mechanically it doesn't make any sense.

The rifle caliber bullets have nothing to do with it, and frankly very little to do with what you call it. Though, realistically, the term submachine gun is largely being fazed out in favour of PDW in the real world.

>>49276216
It makes sense to me.

>>49276075
But it doesn't work both ways.

>>49276092
>.45-70 is a pistol cartridge
Just because someone makes a pistol that fires it does not make it a pistol cartridge.

A pistol cartridge is a cartridge that is designed primarily for use in pistols. An SMG is an air-cooled, magazine-fed, automatic carbine designed to fire pistol cartridges.

>>49276172
Just look in the table of contents.

>>49276197
The gun is retarded because of the improbability of the feeding mechanism.

>>49276229
Please demonstrate how the mechanism would chamber a round.

>>49276279
>Please demonstrate how the mechanism would chamber a round.
You do it, since you're the /k/ommando.

>>49276318
He can't, because it can't. It has to rotate the bullet 90 fucking degrees inside the gun and the gun is the same height as the bullet. There's no room for a mechanism to do that in the image, let alone such a mechanism ever being something you would want.

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>>49276341
I've seen it being done before. How much room is needed?

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>>49276390
It has to go from straight up and down to pointing forward in about half the length of the bullet and vertically rather than horizontally.

>>49276443
>up and down to pointing forward in about half the length of the bullet and vertically rat
I could see that being done, especially with smart metals.

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>>49276443
What I'm thinking is they're stripped from the bottom of the magazine and pulled up through the handle.

The mechanism might look a little bit like this, except the yellow bit that goes up and down is behind the trigger and grabs a new round when it hits the bottom of its travel.

>>49276550
They'd be backwards going into the barrel.

>>49276566
Then flip them around in the mag.

>>49276590
Then it won't feed from the mag.

>>49276049
Shit. That would mean that if I would change from infomorph to a Savant, I would gain almost nothing... Welllll... Such is life.

>>49276566
Imagine that the yellow slider and the blue slider both hold the bullet as it's loaded. Initially the bullet is facing upwards, so the front of the bullet will be held by the back of the blue slider and the back of the bullet will be held by the bottom of the yellow slider.

At the bottom they form a vertical line, but it rotates back to horizontal as they move upwards.

>>49276701
Something has to push the bullet in front of the "blue slider", since that's the bolt. The "yellow slider" is the bolt carrier.

>>49276279
>Just look in the table of contents.
Can't find it.

>>49277029
Morph Creation Rules

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How legal would you say wincest is post fall? I think the game stated somewhere that the average morph is sterile.

>>49278559
Lol.

>>49278580
It's probably legal but still holds a social stigma. Of course, age-based laws still apply.

>>49278580
When you can genetically alter anyone and anything, the only objections to incest are moral. Even ethically, incest occurs commonly nowadays before we instill children with morals because a lot of siblings play doctor. It doesn't get far, but outside of morality, the main reason not to indulge is genetics.

Remove the genetic issues, there is nothing to stop you, really.

>>49278580

As long as you follow all the laws regarding the creation and registration of Forks what you do in your personal hab is your business.

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>>49278653

Go back to your secret aerostat, Claudia

>>49279199

How exactly do Aerostats stay up? Pleb here.

>>49278580
Not sterile, but accidental pregnancy is pretty much nonexistent.

>>49279221
They're lighter than air. Like a ship, but with air. And they stay in one place, hence the -stat.

>>49279332
>>49278580

Pods are said to be universally sterile, any biomorph with Biomods just has internalized contraception/std protection.

>>49279221
Technically, anything that uses gas for buoyancy is an aerostat - even an ordinary hot-air balloon. However, a lot of people use aerostat to refer to a vehicle that combines gas buoyancy and dynamic air-flow (like an airplane) for lift. That's why so many depictions of aerostats show them as a wedge shape.

>>49278653
>Even ethically, incest occurs commonly nowadays before we instill children with morals because a lot of siblings play doctor.
Tell me more...

>>49263849
>>49264174
>be gatecrashers
>exploring exoplanet
>cut off from gate by an extremely localized earthquake
>sinkhole reveals a massive cavern full of impossible machinery
>the entire planet was just a thin shell around a massive, ancient supercomputer
>the planet is lonely and doesn't want you to leave

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>>49281695

>>49282027

See, now there's a freaky Exoplanet idea to work on.

A planet which is in the process of being slowly consumed for resources by some other planetary body, somehow. In a way that like, isn't patently obvious right away.

What's the negative of taking standard missiles over mini or micro? I didn't find any difference in prices or anything, it would seem standard missiles (in all their ridiculousness) are just straight-up better?

Other than the fact that one does not simply hide them. Which won't be a problem as the weapon will be integrated to my Exoskeleton (Hyperdense edition I guess, ain't clear with the GM about it yet).

>>49282117
Logically, the larger missiles would perform better. The downside is that they're larger.

>>49282117
Because they can only be used with one time disposable launchers, seeker rifles can take mini and micro and everything else takes micro.

>>49282117

There's also only one weapon which actually fires Standard Missiles, and thus renders buying additional missiles moot, because it's the Disposable Launcher.

So yeah, unless you want to be that one picture of the guy juggling like a dozen LAW rocket launchers, it's hard to carry a lot of them yes.

>>49282163
>>49282173
>>49282186
Thanks, that cleared things up. I probably cannot persuade my GM to have an integrated missile launcher on my Exoskeleton because HUUUGE, and obviously fucking broken.

Allright, back to minis it is.

>>49282213
Personally, I don't know why they're disposable.

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>>49282213

Well, you probably can glue the launcher to you, but it's gonna be a lot like the grenades on this thing >>49271554

Only, y'know, missile sized. And to reload it you have to like, pop the whole thing out of its mount and slot in a new one. Not hard in a Hyperdense which is probably like a power loader from aliens, just, y'know, not fast. Or subtle.

>>49282253
Reference the modern M72 and AT4, vs the Carl Gustav.

Disposable makes more sense for last-ditch weapons; reusable for cheapness. Big but single-shot missiles aren't primary weapons, they're emergency "oh fuck a tank, maybe with this we won't all die" weapons.

>>49282339

Considering the nominal operating conditions of the game, you will actually need that DV x2 on a Standard Missile so rarely, you can fab up one, maybe two and be set for your needs.

That said, one of the very solid additions in AUGC is the reusable missile launcher and the multiple missile launcher if you REALLY feel a need to carry around and shoot many missiles.

>>49282253
Because even with a reusable launcher, you need carrying cases to protect the missiles from damage. If you have to keep the missiles in tubes anyway, it's more efficient to put sights on the tubes and get rid of the launcher.

>>49282539
Now this alone brings up the question, how big are these missiles? I always imagined standard ones to be the size of a 40mm grenade.

On a related note, how many missiles does the modern solder with heavy ordinance carry?

On the topic of grenades, why would there be a rule about throwing back grenades when they could (and probably are) set to go off on contact?

>>49282960

Nah, the 40mm is probably about the size of a micro missile, you can fit 6 in a rifle-sized weapon, the Standard missile is more like to be like 60-80 mm projectile like what the LAW or AT4 fires. Bigger, longer, more propellant.

>>49282994

Well, grenades have multiple trigger possibilities, including timers or remote, which could apply to throwing them back.

>>49283049
>Well, grenades have multiple trigger possibilities, including timers or remote, which could apply to throwing them back.

But why would anyone use a timer in standard combat, and if it can be remote detonated then you could just set it off when it gets in range.

>>49283049
>>49282994

In fact, this is probably why you can buy Sticky grenades, so you can slap them where you want and not have to worry about people removing them or throwing them back.

>>49283097
You can still remote detonate them as an alternative to a timer.

>>49283106

Well, unless you've held a quick action to actually set them off, you can't detonate them when it's not your initiative. And if it's set to impact, you can't try and deflect around corners or anything.

I'm not really sure why you'd timer them in the middle of a fight, but you can, which kind of necessitates a ruling on handling the throwing or jumping on them. Because somebody would ask.

>>49279387
>lighter than air

Technically they're filled with air, which is in turn lighter than the atmosphere surrounding it.

>>49283165

It still amuses me to no end that the person who made this image used a hypercorp sample character's picture for this, instead of the actual anarchist one.

>>49283165
Nah, even Anarchists aren't that stupid. And I'm pretty sure anti-matter is a bitch and a half to manufacture.

>>49283199
>Anarchists: can't even plagiarize right

'tho perhaps it's a corp shill copy-pasting internal propaganda.

>>49283241
Looks like one badass Fenrir knockoff.
>>49283255
That's what I was thinking.

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>Flexbot Valtron
>Flextron

>>49278559
>strawberry danish
>cinnamon bun
top kek

>>49276443
Let everybody see how many bullets you have! Great Idea!

>>49283651
If the enemy can see you that clearly, you have much bigger problems.

>>49283675
You just need to attach a bullhorn to it that says, "I am out of ammo! Repeat, I am out of ammo!"

What if you made an incredibly advanced seed AI with a sophomoric, idiotic sense of humor?

>>49283634
I don't get it.

>>49283763
you know, like the version of android OS they kept releasing on their smart phones.

>>49283675
Agreed.

>>49283774
I'm not a phone guy.

>>49283729
that would actually be kind of funny.

A gun that works, but is basically filled with all kinds of useless dongles and comedy props.

kinda like link related, if you happen to be an ancient fag.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cf3RfidFKBw

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>>49283758
TOGAAAA!!!!!!

>>49283803
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyLCPDLlfwU

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>>49283803
WARNING: Remember to put the safety on before using the Handy Vibe feature.

>>49283865
thats a lawsuit in the making

Here's my problem with Plato's "Philosopher Kings"

You are charged with the unethical torturing of puppies. How do you plead?

"The Greater Good, your honor"

>>49282213
You could just attach a couple of missile launchers to your back via magnetics. Also, how is a fucking missile broken?

>>49282423
It's probably there if your GM wants you to have an armed incursion on the TQZ. The problem is that the EP system isn't going to hold up to pitched battle.

>>49283049
No. Regular grenades are equivalent to minimissiles, so

>>49283172
There are rules for both of those. Throwing back grenades is a complex action with a REF + COOx2 test to grab a thrown grenade and a throwing skill check in the same action to send it wherever.

Jumping onto a grenade is a complex action with a REF + COO + WIL test, with an optional WILx3 test to begin with. If you succeed, the morph takes an additional 1d10 damage, but the blast is reduced by armor + 10 for others within its radius.

>>49284027
Forgot to finish my thought. Since regular grenades are equivalent to minimissiles, I imagine that minimissiles are similar in size to 40mm grenades.

>>49283199
Do you really think that someone working for a hypercorp would have hair that terrible?

>>49284027
>>49284072

Right, meant to say mini, not micro. My ammo count for the rifle was right, it's 12 for micromissiles. The fact that mini/micro can also mean the same thing on them is kind of a confusion - mechanically speaking anyway.

>There are rules for both of those.

Yes, I know, the rules for different triggers for Seekers/Grenades are just above them. The original question was "why do those rules exist". The answer is "people will try, so".

>It's probably there if your GM wants you to have an armed incursion on the TQZ.

My short list of uses for the Standard Missile is like "multiple Warbots/Fractals or some other reason you need to kill them very fast", actually fighting a vehicle on foot, or for some reason the next room over is filled with a dozen ultimates with plasma rifles.

>Do you really think that someone working for a hypercorp would have hair that terrible?

I mean, do you want me to screencap that sample character? You could just ask me to do that.

>>49284297
>I mean, do you want me to screencap that sample character? You could just ask me to do that.
It's clearly false-flagging.

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>>49284321

I think a better question is, why is her primary weapon listed as a Laser Pulser when she owns a shredder?

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>>49284418

For comparison, this is what the core book thinks an Anarchist character looks like

>>49285232
If it's a dumb gun design, Shirow has probably done it already.

Anybody have the "What I Played/What I Got" for EP? I'd appreciate it.

Exocortex(es). Outside of fiction, ever been expanded on?

>>49287723

Besides as a already existing concept, no I don't think so.

I hope they expand on space travel/sleeving soon. Maybe supraluminal communication, I don't know. People are pretty static, unless you're on mars, just because getting around is a bitch.

>>49289301

Did you read the books drunk or something?

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>>49283758

>>49289417
Okay, 'easy' supraluminal communication, not the stupidly expensive QE method. To the point where the mesh really is instant.

>>49248935
Ever heard of the Uberman sleep pattern? They get by on 2-3 hours of sleep a day in the form of 6 to 8 20-minute naps distributed evenly through the day without any noticeable side effects.

>>49248935
General Crystal has managed for most of his adult life on 4. There are a few studies on the elasticity of sleep in progress though, so adjustment may not be possible for all.

The Ultimate Faction: Anyone who can adjust their nap time.

>>49284027
>The problem is that the EP system isn't going to hold up to pitched battle.
Really? There's no quick battle rules in any of the supplements?

>>49286255
Are there any bows in any of the splat books? I could see some interesting uses for them.

>>49288445
Lol, what is that, a Vacuum Pod?

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What aptitudes should be raised with a synth pangolin designed for combat?

>>49292645
Suicide

>>49292645
Besides SOM?

>>49292664
Is SOM really necessary for combat? I figure COO or REF would be better.

>>49292678
>Is SOM really necessary for combat?
Is a pangolin?

>>49292697
wut?

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>Morningstar builds a wall around Venus to keep the PCs out.

>>49292906
Is a pangolin necessary for combat?

The answer is no. But you want one. Look at it. They're not only adorable, but they're also like armoured skunks. They used to make scaled mail out of their coats. So imagine what transhuman science could make of a mecha-pangolin. Or a pod pangolin. Or even an async biomorph pangolin.

It'd be more armoured than a reaper or a tooled up Daitya. It'd piss acid. A tail mounted plasma rifle. Magnetic claws - climb nearly anything, and rip into anything it can't. And those tongues - whip attachment, or a razored spine for a melee attack. And that's just replacing assorted biological fuckery with TH tech.

>>49293847
well actually the idea was to make it cheaper than a reaper, more like a fury. But I like your creativity.

>>49292221

No, the game is not intended for mass combat. If you're lucky you'll get something resembling official when they do Space Combat, if they cover boarding.

>>49292242

Officially, no. But there's been a couple cracks in various homebrew you can find. AUGC has a couple good ones.

>>49292678
A good SOM means you don't fall down/pass out the first time you get hit. It's probably the most important combat attribute. REF and COO aren't really used directly, they just power useful skills.

>>49290711
The mesh is essentially instant if you're within 50,000 km, beyond that range things change, which is why EP cultures are so heterogenous.

It's also pretty funny that you think a setting where traveling earth to Mars takes about half an hour is "hard to move around in"

I have some questions about the morph creation guide, like who are the aptitude maximums calculated? Can someone gave me an example?

>>49295256

If you set your aptitude max to 30, it's free, no Real CP cost. If it's less than 30, I don't think you get points back either. If your Aptitude Max is 35, it costs 25 Real CP. If your Aptitude Max is 40, is 50 real CP. If you want to have just one or two aptitudes which have a Max, average all your maximums out. So if just SOM is Max 40, and everything else is 30, that costs you like, 7 Real CP. The game doesn't say to round that, so probably leave it as is any math weirdness will be solved by rounding to the nearest 5 at the end.

>>49295344
That sounds stupid, why would anything under 30 get no points back?

Hey, what's the best way to introduce a group to Fate before moving on to Transhumanity's Fate?

>>49295552
Drug their drinks, tie them to their chairs, force them to learn FATE at gunpoint, play a 72-hour marathon session of DFRPG that only ends when the players break their bonds and put you in the hospital. Then do it again once you recover. It's the only way they'll learn, anon.

>>49295424

It doesn't explicitly say you do. And if you had aptitude max of 20 that'd be like, -50 points of Real CP, inverse of 40 max. That allows for some crazy min-max abuse, which the Morph Creation rules are kind of slanted to avoid.

>>49295594
Ok, yeah that's a good point. I hate min-maxers.

>>49295579

I don't know if they'd like that approach. Can I change DFRPG for Atomic Robo?

>>49295651
>I don't know if they'd like that approach.
They'll like anything once they have enough Molly in their systems.

>>49295734

Not true. It wasn't enough to make them like Rifts.

>>49295791
>RIFTS
They'd pretty much need a transorbital lobotomy to like that.

>>49295594
It still feels wrong though, a Neotenic should have some sort of compensation for 20 SOM.

>>49295830
Agreed, I'd rather play FATAL. I'm sure that's more balanced.

>>49295959

Well, it might, who knows. Morphs PS makes are not necessarily an exact science of math balance. For a single aptitude it'd be like -7 so that's not saying a whole lot.

>>49295959
Neotenics, and other "weak" morphs having low SOM always pissed me off. SOM is, in the words of the book "your skill at pushing your morph to the best of its physical ability, including the fundamental utilization of the morph’s strength endurance, and sustained positioning and motion"

It's not how strong the morph is, it's how comfortable you are with how the morph handles. How is what is essentially a scaled down humanoid morph less intuitive than a swarm of microbots?

>>49296096

Well, remember what the aptitude cap means. This means that even if you're naturally some kind of master of bodily efficiency (and you're not, because reaching 30 SOM without bonuses is ludicrous) the cap means that the natural design of the morph means you cannot utilize as much of your natural aptitude. SOM is used for tests of raw strength, and SOM+DUR is used to calculate carrying capacity.

All small morphs have that 20 SOM cap, probably because they have a reduced mass, they have reduced reach and less leverage, and generally because of their smaller stature are not a suited to apply what strength they have - keeping in mind 20 is still double the average for a regular person in a flat. And you can bypass the morph's individual cap with implants, of which there are many to improve SOM.

What's a router? I hear this in lore but I haven't seen a page about them.

>>49296245
>What's a router?
It's that thing you plug into your modem that turns your internet into wifi.

>>49296245

Oh right, the Firewall stuff in Core is all behind the scary "don't read unless you GM" wall.

Go read Firewall, the book.

>>49295959
If you're the kind of person to put yourself in a Neotenic, the sort that designed the Neotenic in the first place, having lower strength and physical capability isn't a hinderance. It's part of the point.

Though the system does wrap too much involving the body into SOM, which makes it make less sense than if the system had a more dedicated 'strength' stat.

>>49296245
They're NPCs. Basically a mix of fixer and Mr. Johnson. They tell you what you have to do and try to provide what you need to do it. A slightly more involved questgiver for the majority of firewall campaigns.

>>49296310
I thought that's what proxies were.
>>49296298
Not if you want a combat loli.

>>49296380

A router is a type of proxy.

>>49296380
I more meant in-setting, in-character.

Though there would almost certainly be plenty of 'Neotenics'-prone weirdos that wanted to be badasses, too.

>>49296418
>>49296380

Muscle Augmentation/Hardened Skeleton. Implants go above the morph's cap and to the hardcap of 40.

>>49296380

If you want a Combat Loli you can go play a different game, I guess.

>>49296418
The goth loli sniper is a bit of a meme from my shadowrun group.

>>49296440
>>49296442
>>49296457
There you go. You can still make a largely non-combat-oriented morph into a pretty superhuman sort, it just doesn't come out of the box.

Given that 20 is the aptitude limit for all us normal pathetic meatbags anyhow, it's not THAT much of a hard limit, is it?

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>>49293801

>>49296486
>Not being a Remade by default

Actually, can Remades breed? What Biomorphs do you think can and cannot breed?

>>49296896
All of them. There's a reason exowombs exist. As far as I'm concerned, female morphs don't generate eggs and male ones don't have sperm in their semen

>>49297079
There's a character in one of the books that mentions he was born a hibernoid, so that's evidently not the case.

>>49297108
Born from an exowomb. No one has sex for reproduction anymore.

>>49297135
>"My parents were both flight crew in the early space days, and some of the first to be given hibernoids for their jobs. They liked their morphs so much they purchased breeding rights from their corp."

>>49297172
breeding in what context? You think people would just make random DNA combinations with all the birth defects that come with them? And FYI, cranial computers are placed into a developing morph with the grey matter trained to go around them.

>>49297221

> You think people would just make random DNA combinations with all the birth defects that come with them?

Strictly speaking, once you're Splicer level or better, there should be no genetic errors left to pass on, unless you've specifically taken some gene damage in your reproductive organs. And since you're not accelerating a live birth, you do have like nine whole months to see a physician to check for anything and fix problems from too dissimilar morph-lines.

That said, the 9 month wait and issues of gravitation is why I assume most people who actually have the economic ability to have kids use exowombs.

>And FYI, cranial computers are placed into a developing morph with the grey matter trained to go around them.

Gonna need you to cite that buddy. I don't recall seeing that anywhere before, but the core book is like 400 pages, and they are a dense 400 pages.

>>49297221
>>49298025
Most people would use exowombs, and some would go full Gattaca, sure. Others would prefer to do actual sex for conception for emotional reasons. And some traditionalists, kinksters, emotional types, or others would choose to go the traditional 9 month pregnancy route for whatever personal reasons. People are not rational actors, after all.

>>49298217

Or you could get that one augment from I think... Seedware? Engineer's Womb - just stick the exowomb in your body, genemod tools and all.

>>49298384

Note to self, put Seedware in the next OP

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/36317552/Seedware%20Blog.pdf

>>49298025

Strictly speaking, once you're Splicer level or better, there should be no genetic errors left to pass on, unless you've specifically taken some gene damage in your reproductive organs.

What if it's not two splicers though? What if it's a Slyph and a Fury? Or an Olympian and a Neotenic?

>>49298896

Well, most morphs have some wiggle room in aptitudes, I assume the end product would lean toward one with some floating aspects of the other. Of course, most serious morph products are still products, we've seen multiple references to breeding rights, so I assume there's some licensing in all parts involved which may include like, the genome equivalent of a devkit or other notes on how to actually get two different product lines to interact.

That said, it's possible that such reproduction would be free of "errors", just the enhanced or specifically shaped traits of one morph wouldn't appear in the child morph. Or it could be such a bad patch job the offspring aren't viable at all so they don't even start. Natural selection is kind of a bitch like that - and it really depends on how and where those traits exist. Your real bitch is say with something like a Remade, which has like, royally cleaned up genomes so much that their physiology is almost radically different in some portions.

Also, if a neotenic is deliberately kept at a pre-pubescent physical development, can they even viably reproduce naturally?

>>49299131
>Also, if a neotenic is deliberately kept at a pre-pubescent physical development, can they even viably reproduce naturally?
Depends what's held prepubescent.

>>49299131
>>49298896

Alright, I'll try an explain this better, but keep in mind, I only took a couple bio courses in college, and my degree is a BS in criminal justice - so I am by no means an expert.

But, you have so many pairs of chromosomes. You inherit one set from each parent. Between them, they hold all the DNA which is responsible for your everything biologically speaking.

Every morph Splicer and up, barring genome damage, should have a "clean" copy of any given gene in its chromosomes to give you an ideal human's version of that thing. Then, certain morphlines will contain specifically enhanced genes which would be responsible for some of those aptitude bonuses from a Morph. Things that go above an optimized "average".

Now, assuming both parents are not "legacy" models, but grown from the ground up to be that morph, they're gonna have two full sets of that morph's chromosomes which govern its enhanced traits. An olympian will have genetics to trend the result to have a really strong heart and lungs, and an observer would have genes to promote really sharp eyesight and other senses. At this stage you can even insert most bioware probably. Traits which are not specifically enhanced or tweaked in a morph should probably be assumed to fall back to the Splicer level "optimization", and we might assume that enhanced genes will dominate over non-enhanced ones, but I don't know if that can be guaranteed.

Since, under normal circumstances, you get one chromosome from each parent to make up your pair, you'd be fine. You have the set you need to make optimized traits from both parents. At worst, your enhanced and nonenhanced traits might hybridize a little, and your trend will be above a "splicer average", but below say, the olympian average. Problems occur in that natural breeding is not an exact science, you might get some situations where shit can get messed up and play with what should be just a simple 50/50 situation where you get the best of both worlds.

>>49299423
Yeah, just saying children are grown artificially in exowombs is a lot easier.

>>49299484
Yeah, but that's not going to be universal. Nothing is.

That, and it's just less interesting than dealing with the ramifications of Transhuman pregnancies.

>>49299484

Oh, yeah it is.

>>49299552

I think the real interesting thing is say you have multiple generations of faithbirth transhumans. Then you could get situations where you have a kid who is mostly evenly split say, Fury/Sylph, but has a random block of Ruster or Nomad thrown in there. That's when you'll start to get weird interactions.

Of course, that's still got that 9 month window. Give the embryo a gene screening and mom takes a dip in a healing vat, or you get some special uterine nanos, you could probably clean up any problems.

>>49299645
>I think the real interesting thing is say you have multiple generations of faithbirth transhumans.
Resleeving and morphs haven't been around long enough for that to be an issue yet. The technology is less than 50 years old at the present point in the timeline. So you could have, generously, two or three generations, but that hasn't cropped up yet. And transhumanity persisting in a recognizable form for another 50-70 years seems...unlikely at best?

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Well, time to chip away at that bump limit until its time to make the new thread...

I'm looking for cool maps of spaceships, anyone knows where can I find it? The ones I found on google are "meh"

>>49303373

I think there's a thread on the forums about deckplans, it might have some stuff.

>>49299552
>That, and it's just less interesting than dealing with the ramifications of Transhuman pregnancies.
Mind you, having children one way or another is rare for a number of reasons.

(selfishness of creating a new human in a biomorph while there's still thousands if infugees and impoverished, stress on lifesupport by adding another mouth to feed, the common challenges of raising a kid, especially in a place where there are not that many other kids to interact with in the first place)

>>49303588
sauce?

>>49299645
The timeline gives the earliest point of "transhuman species"(which I understand as morphs that are fully genetic in therms of biomodification)existing as 40 BF, so there's been easily space for two adult generations of genefixed morphs. That's probably reduced given the whole breeding rights thing, though by how much I don't know.

>>49299484
Why not both? Conception done the old-fashioned way, then you remove the zygote from the uterus and move it into an exowomb. As >>49299423 says, with genefixed parents, especially in the same morph, it's generally going to yield acceptable results(and it's not like the kid is gonna stay in the body forever). The natural way is also probably easier and cheaper than getting your kid's birth body a custom genome(and again, what's the point of doing that)? There's also a bonus of getting more of an emotional connection, because you and your significant other have actually *made* the baby, not paid some genehacker to make a tweaked clone of your current morph.

There's also the fact that unless your biomods are genetic engineering, you're not passing them on anyway. Also, you might not even want the baby morph to have the same mods as you do. Some of them might really twist an ego if they're accessible since childbirth. The example in MRG, the hibernoid, is quite innocuous, but I'm gonna be having a menton-since-conception character who's never switched bodies before. That means eidetic memory since the brain has had the capability to store information. So the character has perfect recall of every waking moment of their life since their brain became capable of memory. That's basically posthuman by itself.

I miss our EP group. There are so many more cigars to be smoked in inappropriate situations while coasting on my phat stack of G-rep until the party thinks I am some Nine Lives plant into Firewall.

>>49295959
Just apply the neotenic variant template to an Exalt to bypass the 5 SOM Aptitude penalty.