/HHG/ The Horus Heresy Generals

>>49222721
What would you think is the best RoW for an allied WE detachment?
Yes, as in, allied to the IW

IW fag here, I've always been torn between Thousand Sons and Iron Warriors. Having watched a battle report where a librarian buffed tactical squads, Dreadnaughts and the like I'm interested in running a few. With the current rules I don't think a single librarian is enough of a force multiplier.

As it stands I'm interested in building a jack of all trades list that can make use of buffs to enhance key force elements.

Considering Thousand Sons release soonish, would it be wise to wait for them? Include a librarian or two in my iron warriors lists or simply o Word Bearers for burning lore.

Burning lore only turns specific character models into psykers right?

>>49222843
Burning Lore is "Some HQ also gain Psychic powers" without shelling for true Librarians. And Diabolists can buff Tactical, Assaul and TERMINATOR squads.
It's up to you to have faith.

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Same anon who posted the cancer rhino a week ago, I think I did alright on my new tactical marines and libby, may get rid of the book on top as that was a pain to paint and doesnt look good.

>>49222921
what have you done

>>49222843
I say don't settle for Word Bearers

They're the arch-traitors, the daemon masters; they have a very specific look and feel, but it's not so much "psychic mastery" as it is "the vanguard armies of hell" - a cool role they very much deserve and do very well, but force multiplying/buff-tastic librarians they 'aint

I'd say make your jack of all trades list for either of the knowledge-loving brothers, and I'd suggest leaning towards automata to do it - the Warriors loved making their 'bots, while the Sons needed bullet sponges

>>49222921
just thick my shit up senpai

Dammit I forgot to include de 1d4chan pages in the OP

>Legion Tactics
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/Tactics/Space_Marine_Legion_List_(30k)
>Mechanicum
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/Tactics/Mechanicum:_Taghmata_(30k)
>Imperial Army
>>Solar Auxilia
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/Tactics/Solar_Auxilia_(30k)
>>Militia and Cults
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/Tactics/Imperial_Militia_and_Cults_(30k)
>Questoris Knights
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/Tactics/Questoris_Knight_Crusade_(30k)

Phoenix terms aren't worth the upgrade points over normal termis?

palatine blades seem to get pricey fast

>>49222921
Don't let those anons discourage you, anon, those are some darn nice Play-Doh marines!

>>49222948
>>49222971
Just dunno what to do to improve senpai, thinned it this time...

>>49222921
What legion are those even suppose to be ?

>>49223045
Supposed to be salamanders, tried doing a bit of a lava pattern on their legs.

>>49222921
Ok real talk here : edge-highlighting and free hands painting clearly are far above the level of painting-fu you are at right now.

If I were you I'd give the armour an even coat of your choosen colour, paint the metal bits with leadbelcher and maaaaaaybe drybrush it with something lighter if you think you can handle drybrushing just the metal bits and not the whole damn model. Then apply Nuln Oil to the whole thing and call it a day.

Also thin your paint and clean your brush at regular intervals, don't do it once and then paint a whole bunch of models in one go (REEEEEEEEE)

>>49222921
>>49223020
>>49223152
There's so much wrong with it, I don't even know where to begin.

Start out by learning the basics here:
Assembly: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfToNrfoDh4
How different paints should be used: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLEaPE4sLDA7sNLQTkuFBH71w4sbDeoy6t
How to paint Space Marines (even if it's Ultramarines the concepts apply to everyone): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_odi1c7ErCg
How to paint Salamanders armour https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAPIvkyt3eU

>>49222721
Can someone link me the most recent legion book, as mine says WE can take chainaxes for free if they already had access to chainswords

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Im supposed to be making a new 1000 point army for an escalating campaign, but im torn between iron warriors heavy weapons and word bearer summoning shenanigans

How much fun would be the joint task force of Loyalist Iron Warriors and Iron Hands post-Istvaan V dropsite massacre?

>>49222741
Don't, take a detachment that helps the iron warriors and then just have red butcher allies with Golg in a spartan

>>49222921
>>49223152
Word bearer anon here, consider checking out the multitude of painting guides for salamanders or painting in general. Because from your paintjob I believe you must suffer from autism or some other disease. We live in the age of free, easily available information thanks to the internet.

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>>49222721

>>49223365
I think it's parkison's disease, can't remember the last time I've seen such an insteady hand paintjob.

>>49222921
I don't know if those are edgy flames or magma bubbles because they look like blobs, if you want that to change highlight them and use washes.
There are visible mouldlines on the thunder hammer so you should get rid of that
Also never do script with paint, use a micropen, it's basically a ink pen with a really fine nib and just make squiggles of writing
The librarians head should not all be one colour as there's bionics and eyes to be done
Cruz terminatus may be mentioned in forgeworld books but general rule of thumb is not to use it
If I were you I'd strip these models, and buy the 3 marine snap fits until you can paint them to a table top standard
Also /wip here on /tg will help you, and don't worry some hated Knight Anon at first but now we all just about love him and his grey fists

>>49223346
1000 point praevian led iron born, as it expands you can include iron circle and crush them under the might of BEEP BOOPS

>>49223369
I don't understand why they haven't put this in an FAQ yet or mentioned it on the blog
Also is this email before the most recent legion book came out

>>49222961
I already lean towards the Iron Circle, perhaps buffing robots would be even more ridiculous? Field two librarians, a delegatus, arm him accordingly, wade through hellfire with beep boops.

>>49223356
>have red butcher allies with Golg in a spartan
>>49223356
Duh, you seriously think I didn't think of that?
Not even Sworn Brothers can share transports. I could joing Golg with Butchers and deepstrike them, but only if they ran Orbital Assault, meaning I'd only get to bring a single Butcher squad, and maybe WE Ass squads.

If they ran PotL, that'd be two Butcher squads, and maybe some Apothecaries.

But the fact I can doesn't mean I should.

>>49223477
Why not warsmith with cortex, then you can beep boop while you ironfire

>>49223769
Because the Praevian warlord is a self insert of the edgy autistic player

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DA guy from a couple threads ago here. Just got done with the majority of the work on a drop pod, which will be transporting either a vet squad or a leviathan(once I get either of those painted...)

How's it look so far? I've still gotta clean up the edges of the fins and maybe add some weathering from re-entry.

Tried to make the black look good with a dawnstone drybrush, but any other tips on how to make black not boring-as-hell would be appreciated

>>49223979
Is the red meant to have blacks going through, also
>Aquila
REEEE

>>49224132
Is this a bad time to point out that FW's Javelin speeders have an aquila on them ?

>>49224132
People who still scream about the Aquila need to fuck off back to their Index Astartes-era lore. There's Aquilas on marine gear in almost every FW book.

>>49224132

I wanted a darker red on the flats of the fins due to exhaust and dust from re-entry, with edge highlights. I might go back and add another layer or two of Khorne red to make it obvious.

>REEEE
In lieu of having another argument about the viability of non-palatine aquilas among the legions in 30k: The Emperor's Salvation(Drop Pod) is a distinguished machine within the arsenal of the 1st Legion cruiser Lion's Claw, having served the First since the early days of the Great Crusade. It had the immense honor of serving beside the Emperor himself during the subjugation of the Andronicus system, being one of many pods launched to reinforce the emperor and his guard whilst battling their foes. For this honor of service it was adorned with an Aquila to mark it as having stood in the presence of the Master of Mankind.

Is that sufficient to quell your autism?

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>>49224306
Yes, it is. All Land Speeder Javelins are stolen from the EC.

Kidding. As long as the marines don't wear them as a personal heraldry it'll be alright.

Shave those Aquilas from your marines.

And yes, the Palatine Aquila is but an ancient iteration of the Imperial Aquila. Meaning it's AN Imperial Aquila.

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>>49222921

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>>49222921
Jesus christ are you painting with pastry bags?

>>49224306
And the salamanders storm eagle is used in FW art, even though the tech marine within clearly has non heresy era armour

I am looking to add a small Cybernetica attachment to my IW force and I am pretty sold on the standard:

Magos with 3 castellax w/ darkfire cannons

Thanatar

maybe a squad of Thallax.

My main question is, what is the "standard" load out for a solid Magos, without going overboard? I am currently a little overwhelmed with how many options mechanicum get and I always throw what feels like too much on him.

>>49222921
Practice makes perfect, but seriously; thin your goddamn paints.

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>>49222921
What paints are you using? Apple Barrel?

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Is there a specific time period where the IW adopted the horns that modern Chaos Marines have? If I recall from the early days, the horns originally came from mixing beastmen bits with chaos Marines.

>>49224647
Just a magos to herd the Castellax and cast Cybertheurgy? If he's an Archmagos Dominus, run him naked, add a cyberfamiliar tops.

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>>49224450
>As long as the marines don't wear them as a personal heraldry
Try again.

>>49224647
Take a Magos Prime Myrmidax with photon thrusters. That + the darkfire cannons should kill any and all vehicles

A shining light... To our brothers-in-arms.
Even in death. We are Alpharius.

>>49224763
Thousand sons sorcerers always had horns, and their Primarchs were bff's so you could fluff it as them being the ones that guarded pertuabo when he met with Magnus on terra

>>49224888
I already told you, Khorne, MGSV quotes are only good as responses, not as initiators.

>>49224800
At least he's loyal.

>>49224800
That's not personal heraldry, personal heraldry is right shoulder pad. That's on all crusade mk 2 as it was them going OIII THE EMPEROR SENT US as it was still brutal conquest at that point rather than diplomacy

>>49224520
>non heresy era armour

It's an artificer MkV, so no need for studs to hold extra armour and thinner cables fit under the plates. Torso cables covered by an extra chest plate (like how some MkIVs got a plate that covers the chest cables).

>>49224450
>posted image clearly says "Emperor's personal standard"

So if the Aquila is the symbol of the Emperor, what's the universal insignia of the Imperium in 30k that all loyalist forces can bear to signify others of their allegiance? Surely a unified state would have a unified symbol under which they operate.

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>>49224920
Except tons of other examples of mk II armor shows either a legion icon, or the Terran raptor head.

And if personal heraldry is only the right shoulder pad, find me even a post-heresy marine that has the Aquila there. Because I've never seen ANY marine have it there except for pic-related, and that's the Way of Unification Aquila.

>>49224990
The Imperial Aquila is the universal insignia. The Palatine Aquila is the Emperor's personal standard.

This Aquila 'problem' is bullshit, imagine having an army where every UM has a Deathwatch shoulderpad, it would look awful right? Same with the Aquila, its fine if you add it on some models here and there but it looks silly if you have all your World Eaters with Aquilas.

Moderation is key.

>>49225070
Anyone got an image showing the difference between the two aquillas, and also the most recent 30k explanation of the aquilla as one Blanche drawing said it was not just the emperor and the mechanicum represented but all the bodies of the imperium

Also does the emperor have two sets of heraldry or does he ditch the thunderbolt after unifying with Mars

>>49225043
>Shows a picture of a loyalist blackshield
>Thinks they still abide by protocol
kek
"Why do the Emperor's Children keep the name if they don't fight for the Emperor anymore? You can't explain that"

>>49225090
Except "The Imperium of Man" is not a secretive special snowflake group, it's the empire you belong to. Next you'll tell me Mechanicum models should not have the skull and cog in 30k.

>>49225090
That would make the autists scream even louder because that means you're not creating a uniform army. And haven't you heard? That's as bad as mixing armor types...

>>49225090
>tfw forgeworld will never release torsos with the equals etched on like in all the big books

>>49225132
Great job not reading my post. My whole point is no one pre-Heresy puts the aquila on the pauldron.

>>49225141
Unless your army is weathered or blackshields then mismatched marks is stupid, as the suits are built wholesale and not modular like in 40k, and they run on different fuels and systems. It'd be like running a Mac flashcard from the 90's on your brand new gaming rig

>>49225122
Google "30k aquila"
Compare the third and fourth images.

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>>49225140
>Next you'll tell me Mechanicum models should not have the skull and cog in 30k.
W e . have . s o m e t h i n g . b e t t e r , m e a t b a g .

>>49225167
>they run on different fuels

Sauce?

>>49225210
That's like using a legion symbol to say "we don't need not aquila to show we're Imperial, we got this here upside down omega."

>>49225167
>>49225217
I would think for a galaxy wide war effort the armor should use anything that will burn, there's no way you're going to have freighters of prometheum or whatever keeping up with your Crusade

>>49225167
Perhaps the only thing approaching a "standard" in the whole Imperium would be their thermal engines being able to run on anything that flows and burns

>>49225253
>"If it flows, I goes."

OMG YOU ARE ALL SO FUCKING STUPID
Palatine Aquila/imperial aquila was in use during the crusade, and the heresy.

The emperors personal PHOENIX styled claw wing motif aquila thing was granted to the EC, this is NOT the imperial aquila

holy fucking retards

>>49225190
So lightning bolt aquilla is the use by all version or emperors personal one, I'm hoping emperors personal one so I don't have to stick lightning bolt find on everything

>>49225276
lightning bolts was PRE-crusade.... it was unification era symbol to represent HIS forces, it was NOT his PERSONAL heraldry

>>49225246
Filters would be designed for certain impurities, castraferrum box naughts become popular because they can run on anything whilst contemptors couldn't, that and also the ease of construction
So I'd presume that carried on to power armour

>>49224132
>>49224306
What's the problem with this exactly?

The Aquilia was the symbol of the Imperium during the Heresy.

>>49225276
It's the personal one, but the lightning bolts tend to be added to EC's who were around during the War of Unification. Non-EC's who fought during the War of Unification used the Raptor Head with Lightning Bolts. But it's not a super-ultra standardized thing.

>>49225311
Old lore stated that only the Emperor's Children wore the Aquila. There was only one Aquila design back then.

>>49225246
Pretty sure SM power packs run on nuclear fuel. At least atomic stacks were mentioned in old fluff and for example the anvilus backpack fluff mentions that it has worse radiation shielding on it. Also, what does it matter what runs the power source? As long as they produce electricity to power the suit, any old backpack should do. Attaching them to the suit might need some work, but electricity is electricity.

Wonder why tanks don't use atomic power. Maybe they can't produce a reactor that's powerful enough to drive a tank while not weighing too much and tanking up too much space? Marine power armour probably doesn't need a whole lot of power, but needs it for long periods of time, while tanks probably need a lot of power fast, but aren't running 24/7.

>>49225238
You specifically picked the legion that uses eagles as ornamentation.
And the Fists use Lightnings and Raptors due to their proximity to the Emperor.

But the insular Reductor, distant from Mars and employed by both bands, were pretty much on their own side. They'd be one of the closest things the Mechanicum have to Blackshields, but they don't build empires of their own.

They only destroy the empires of others.

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>>49225308
In Legacy there's a rogue trader charter signed personally by the Emperor and his seal is said to be an ][ with an X over it. Made me think of the symbol of the Adeptus Custodes.

>>49225340
Land Raiders and larger tanks tend to be reactor powered, rather than combustion based.
Mentioned more than once, especially on the super-heavies like the Falchion for instance, which needs a sizeable reactor just to feed its guns.

>>49225342
Mechanicum book says they're a sub-sect of the Mechanicum, even if nomadic.

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>>49225266
Not quite, they're different things awarded in different occasions.

>>49225434
I said "Distant from Mars", not "Entirely independent".

>>49225407
Actually, Land Raiders used the same thermic combustor reactor as dreadnoughts and rhinos. HOWEVER, Land Raiders use a much-upscaled class of the reactor, whereas the Rhinos use four smaller classes working in parallel. The base model seems to be what the Castraferrum uses.

>>49225380
Was malcador also present or something as the inquisition I is malcadors symbol IIRC

>>49225434
The Mechanicum is even more dispersed and disparate than even the AdMech in 40k. That says a lot about how little control Mars actually had over other Forgeworlds.

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>>49225326
The Emperor's Aquila is different from the Imperial Aquila. pic related is the Emperor's personal heraldry aquila

The Imperial aquila is a combination of the Emperor's aquila with another wing and twin-head added symbolizing the union of Terra and Mars

Also wearing the aquila on your armor is different from having it on vehicles. HH books regularly talk about giant aquilas plastered on warships and the like

>>49225466
I seem to recall that it's a bit of a hybrid. The Emperor's Lightning, a Land Raider that sank into a swamp, spend 18 years driving out of it, reserving it's power and shutting down for periods of time to recharge its batteries. It's possible there's an auxiliary reactor which charges batteries and can drive the tank as well.

But yeah, most Imperial vehicles use combustion engines as their main power source for movement. Weapons are often hooked to their own power sources, like for example a Leman Russ Demolisher can have, on top of its combustion engine, a plasma reactor and laser generators to fuel its hull and sponson guns.

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>>49225483
Malcador's symbol was a bit like it, but not entirely the same.

>>49225435
>exterminatus revenge

pff pussies, most other legions would drop on the planet to kill every living thing by hand and would consider just nuking them from orbit to be an insult to the ones that died

>>49225745
It's hard to kill a whole planet with chainaxes when you only have 200 active warriors.
But as someone who cleared Horde with a rusty knife, indeed there's no better revenge than the one the blade offers.

>>49225576
....Do Malcador's armrests seem...odd?

>>49226202
they're too small to be the missing primarchs'!

they're too small to be the missing primarchs'!

they're too small to be the missing primarchs!'

DAMN YOU NEIL ROBERTS.

>>49226222
Noo, I'm the missing II legion myself! Damn you, myself!

>>49222995
Strangely enough, most of us here think they aren't worth it, but some of the experienced players who have their own podcasts think Phoenix Terminators are top-tier. Maybe they are once you're a half-decent player, but not if you're a n00b. But I'd get them anyway. They look great, and they're more highly regarded than the Charnabal Sabre guys.

>>49224132
Once the EC were declared traitor, wouldn't everyone else have felt free to use the aquila?

>>49226222
>implying Malcador doesn't know the ancient Terran secret of shrunken skulls

>>49226202
Uh, holy crap. Where's that image from?

In other news, podcasts... I tried listening to After Ullanor (the "book club" of 30k podcasts) and I don't really care for it. They go over EVERY LITTLE SCENE in every book, but they take them all at face value. Lots of recap, little analysis.

I like the Age of Darkness podcast's book reviews more. They only spend a portion of their podcast discussing a book, but they don't spend much time on the plot. It's all about themes and connections to other parts of the 30k universe. It's more interesting, imo.

>>49226222
Maybe he killed them as babies

>>49226251
Why? Palatines get to strike first almost everytime and have AP2 weapons that arent unwieldy, so why arent they worth it? Because the UM have better options? I dont get it.

Rolled 4 (1d10)

so I'm going to make one of those image macros/ write up for 1d about the beginers guide to 30k so they know what all the units are meant to be, eg legion phobos, and amrs pattern. along with little explanations, eg mk 4 would be scare by the siege as most legions would have lost access to materials to buy the new suits
hopefully this creation will also stop aquilla shitposting

also let's have another decimation

>>49225576
>tragedy mask

>>49226369
>g mk 4 would be scare by the siege as most legions would have lost access to materials

Source? All traitors had the best gear as Horus himself made sure his forces were well fed with materials, White Scars/Blood Angels/Imperial Fists would also have the best considering they were the only defenders, MkIV, VI and VII for them isnt out of the question and UM while they got a beating had a ton of time to rebuild so them with MkIV is expected.

Istvaan legions regrouped and splintered off, DA didnt see a ton of fighting during the Heresy and Space Wolves got their ass beat but I dont think it was hard enough that they couldnt go back to Fenris, regroup and rearm and head to Terra.

>>49226369
any suggestions for what to include in this list sans vechile patterns

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>>49222721
Shoo Shoo

>>49226487
at the beginning they'd still have the great crusade warmachine working, but later on each side fought over forgeworlds and wouldn't make that much of a profit out of capturing them

>>49226504
but anon aren't those terminator power axes

>>49226343
Nooooo!
>>49226294
>>implying Malcador doesn't know the ancient Terran secret of shrunken skulls
You mean you don't know the secrets of ENLARGED SKULLS?
You get 300% more skull per skull!

>>49226504
Now we also need a drawing of Angron tossing chainaxes by the handfull into a cheering WE crowd, saying "and YOU get a chainaxe, and You get a chainaxe, and you ..."

>>49226556
Do they whirr? Yes
Do they buzz? Yes
Do they cut? Yes
Do they saw? Yes
Do they see? No
But are they free? Yes

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>>49226610
>khorne's face when you bring him the biggest skull in the galaxy

>>49226369
I strongly oppose to the idea.
All legions used all armours, all bolter patterns and mixmatched armours.

MkIV was very abundant among IW, WE and DG, all of them legions sworn to the Warmaster. After all, it was the armour meant to replace those ageing MkII suits, and those guys formed the Meatgrinder Trinity, so they had looots of recruits using the new armour pattern.

And even so, some legions if not most had their own oathed forges, so the UM and IH also used MkIV.

And before you even say anything about MkVI being restricted to the Raven Guard and Alpha legion, remember that the original trial units were the IW and Salamanders.

Also, NO, let's have no further decimations. That shit's stale yo.

>>49226369
You can do it with noncontroversial stuff, but clearly a lot of us don't agree with your take on Mk IV availability.

>>49227143

I agree for the most part except on the Corvus pattern. In deliverance lost, its basically said that the production suits and the testing suits are quite different, and i don't think the IW are the kind of guys that would keep an entire logistics chain up and running for what they believe is only going to be a minimal run of suits.

Generally i'd say Corvus is abundanat in the RG and common in with the Legions defending Terra, but relatively rare outside of those except the XX.

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>>49227348
>mandatory decimation

Doesn't Garro wear a MkVI suit? I remember reading his suit is a MkVI, since it's the latest and most advanced suit, and all that.

>>49227348
Not saying they had a lot of MkVI, just saying they were also issued some of that for testing before Perturabo grew a backbone at last and decided to pass on the "honour" of testing that patttern onto the Raven Guard, backed by Salamander complains that the armour didn't seem strong enough.

As such, few in the IW would have proto MkVI. How many is "a few IW"? Say 0.5% got it.
That's still 900 marines, and you could justify a whole chapter out of them.

Holy shit, the one thing he complains about and the universe decides to one up him again. But it's not like the regular IW could use the MkVI enhancements anyway. Power armour serves to protect them , that's it.

>>49227610
And now I can't post squad Malbon because my computer is extremely slow and can't handle having 27 tabs open.

>>49227766
Triple dubs of truth

>>49227766

pretty much, hence i stated rare, although the fact they are trial suits makes the phasing out go even faster, depending on the units issued.
I tend to think that even if they disliked the suit, it be issued to units that have maximum returns on the enhanced auto senses, so stuff like scouts, vanguard etc, who can, quite reasonably have lower rates of attrition then the rank and file line units.

>>49223020
Thin down with airbrush thinner (one drop on a small fingernail of paint).
Also maybe your brushes are shit. Buy 000, 0, 1, 2 for about 10 bucks each (or at least spend more for the most used sizes) or whatever the non-most-crazy red rat butthair brushes cost.
Take time for fine work, paint with the very tip, apply no force, don't soak the tip in paint. Paint a thin layer, don't try to cover everything. Wait until it dries and apply the next layer of the same paint.
The model must be stable, the armst must be stable, e.g. lean on your arms, hold the model in one hand, hold the other hand against the model hand while holding the brush with 2 fingers, move only the fingers that hold the brush, exhale a bit, then hold your breath. Focus on the model. If you cannot see what you want to paint, then don't paint it. Use a bright lamp. Use some sticky mass to temporarily glue the model onto another, heavier thing which you can handle well, like a paint pot or a cork.

>>49223979
it looks good enough for play. You should apply some Nuln Oil or whatever to the recesses on the red parts and also apply ~2 layers of thin red to the red parts. Also fix the edges where the red meets the black parts. And yeah, the fins.

Which legion has the best terminators?

>>49229014
Shooty, Guillimans are the best in points/kill
CC is probably fire drakes

>>49229014
Death guard have some good termis. Being able to take lots of them in an army (HQ, Elites, Heavy Support) is a nice bonus,

>>49229070
I thought guilliman's were considerably costlier points-wise than pert's?

>>49229110
They get more for the cost, but it actually depends on precise numbers and kit.
Anon somewhere broke it down entirely by gear, squad size, ded killy capacity and ded hardness.

Lucius Vorenus and Titus Pullo XIII Legion characters when?

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Anons, help me. I can't decide between starting an Iron Warriors force, or supplement the IG Start Collecting box I bought with some more stuff, and the Cadian Command Squad looks so nice.

On one hand, I could tell Word Bearers to have faith. On the other hand, I could play it as an IM list. Such hard decisisons. Too bad that there's no chimeras in the IM army list, I like their models. Also it's too late for me to change the Multi-Melta sponsons I put on the Leman Russ.

>>49229014
Iron Warriors, Ultramarines, Death Guard, Sons of Horus, and Salamanders all have great termies. Some people like the Emperor's Children and Iron Hands special terminators as well, but they're a source of contention.

>>49229014
IF

>>49229110
>I thought guilliman's were considerably costlier points-wise than pert's?
yeah they such. its like a 655+ points for 10 of them
>>49229014
firedrakes

>>49229244

Have faith, Imperial Fist.

>>49229260
They have the best vinilla termies

>>49229260

Weren't all Firedrakes canonically killed at the Drop Site Massacre?

>>49229260
Firedrakes aren't a legion

>>49229279
Meant for >>49229267

>>49229014
Best generic Termies are IF.
Best special belong to the AL

>>49227766
Huh, didn't know Vulkan agreed with Pert about the Mk.VI, where's that?

>>49229296
they might as well be. its the only reason anybody would play the minstralmanders
>>49229292
pobably

WS5 2W terminators with a 3++ and a powerfist for 50 points each. pretty good

>>49229292
Are you thinking of the pyre guard?

>>49229434

The Pyre Guard was not a bodyguard formation. They were a council of high ranking commanders that also happened to advise Vulkan on and off the Battlefield.

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>>49229167
Aww you remember it.

>>49229070
>CC is probably fire drakes
Friendly reminder a Traitor WE Terminator squad using Berzerker Assault can inflict 9.72 ID unsaved wounds on a full Firedrake unit, while costing 200pts less and still retaining their ability to shoot.
I'm not saying Firedrakes are weak or anything, I'm just saying nothing is invincible.
As such, >>49229014, you'd rather do well in explaining what do you want those termies for, and never rely ENTIRELY on a single unit.

On the other vein, Deathshroud pretty much fuck up anything that doesn't have more than 1 wound, and they have flamers to deal with hordes. And little rules-lawyering is required to make them wear Cataphractii, since they wear unspecified terminator armour.

>>49229979

Lore-wise.

>>49230008
SoHs used lots in teleport attacks, Fists were also keen on them.
Ferrus Manus invented both Cataphractii and Indomitus patterns, the IW also had lots of termies, and the DG was full boner on heavy infantry, so much that both their legion specifics are termies.

Those are the ones I remember right off the bat.

>>49229979
>and never rely ENTIRELY on a single unit
Speaking of which, what's the most expensive unit that isn't a superheavy?

>>49229339
Nah people who play Sallies do it because they like the fluff or becaus onc you go black you never go back.
People who want to wreck shit with Firedrakes play Alpha Legion, because -1'' charge and no Initiative added to sweeping advance rolls sucks great unclean one's nuts on a CC unit.

>>49229167
>>49229886

I am still not sure it even matters. At that point cost you have to factor in how many points you can lose per plasma shot. A good amount of IW players in my area avoid Siege Tyrants all together due to the fact that there is so much ap2 in our meta. Don't know a single Ultramarine player who has even considered bringing the Fulmentarii because its he same problem but even worse.

So, anyone have any sort of list/army concepts they have stuck in their heads?

Like, I want to do a full MkII or MkIII Iron Warriors army with Cataphractii and Contemptors. Maybe some Armoured Proteus or MkIIB Land Raiders for everyone.

Also, does anyone else think MkIII sort of looks like mini-Cataphractii and that it would be better off it the Cataphractii helmets were closer in appearance to the MkIII ones?

Yes, I know that Cataphractii was made as a sort of improvement to MkIII.

>>49230104
Definitely one of the vehicles, however beyond vehicles it would probably be Mechanicum monstrous creatures and/or the Iron Warriors beeb boops (fucking hell, those things will never die but any hope of ever using them competitively goes out the window with that price tag)

>>49230200
I'LL HAVE YOU KNOW THAT I HAVE A 48 MODEL 7,000 POINT LIST THAT CONTAINS 18 BEEP-BOOPS.

>>49230147
The math only factors ranged offensive power, not the risk of putting so many points in a single model. Even the cheapest individual Fulmentarus costs a full 70pts, more than a vanilla Centurion, and the ones in the sheet don't even have power fists -- they're a budgeted squad that would very much crumble in melee.

>>49230104
A full Fulmentarii squad with power fists cost 750 pts. A single squad.

>>49230216
Well more power to you anon, your list probably looks fucking amazing on the table.

I wish i had your bravery

>>49230200
>>49230216
>205*6 = 1230 pts
Holy shit m8. And regular Castellax have better shooting.

>>49230200

Ride the Ironfire with me.

>>49230222
Exactly. I am still tempted to call Tyrants better because they are just cheaper overall. At some point those saved points matter much more than an attempt to calculate the effectiveness per points. Obviously i wouldn't apply this argument to comparing all units, but when two units fullfill a similar role and are already both super expensive, its hard for me to justify spending a chunk more for one squad.

I'll just keep taking Iron Havocs anyway.

>>49230248
BUT CAN THEY MELEE AS WELL?

PLZ SAY NO.

>>49230248
yeah..... that hurts. Especially since you have to take at least 4 to be BFFs with Perturabo. There really is no justifying a squad of that cost without transport/reserves options.

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>>49230285
All MCs have AP2s.

Iron Boops have higher WS, S10 Concussive, "hits twice on a 6" and 4++ if carefully managed, so they hit harder and last longer (MMMM)...but Castellaxii cost about half the points and have both Rage and Shock Chargers, meaning their HoW attacks can concuse the enemy, not to mention their shooting has much higher chance of hurting the Iron Circle than the other way around.

But whenever the Mechanicum wants their MCs in melee, they send instead their Vorax, whom at 65pts per monster they could outnumber the Iron Circle three to one, and come with Rending default, as well as access to poison and flesbane weapons, and will attack earlier.

>>49230281
Taking Iron Havocs is always the right answer.

Quick question, would Centurions that take an upgrade still be considered Centurions?

>>49230444
I really didn't need to see the math to know how horribly overpriced they are. At least now I have the math behind my bitterness, like a true IW.

The only saving grace I can think of is their surprising resistance to even strength D blast weapons. A full squad + Pert makes him the only primarch willing to walk around in an Apoc game without hiding the entire time.

>>49230486
Yes, their rank is centurion and the other stuff is more of their specialty. Gamers just generally drop the centurion title for simplification.

>>49230444
What do you mean by actual points costs?
>tfw only Flakk Havocs are cheaper
Buff Havocs plz. I hate Missile launchers. Hate hate hate them. I hate them as a World Eater hates everything. They are perhaps the ugliest models FW has ever sold that wasn't intended to be ugly.

>>49230517
I had figured than their title would be Centurion X Consul.

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>>49230525
Then you MUST be excited that FW finally has glorius alternative missile launcher models ! Bask in their radiance !

>>49230535
That makes sense to me, however I can also see them just dropping Centurion all together. Its not like your fellow marines will be confused when you refer to the Forgelord etc...

>>49230597
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Those backpacks are pretty awesome though. This means that I would have to buy them to get the backpacks, which means that I'd have such horrendous missile launcher models. A shame, because those look like they'd be great for a MoS or some other kitbashed character.

>>49230597

That flat metal plate on the left side of the launcher looks like shit. They couldn't have rounded the front into a beak or something?

How That Guy-ish is it to take graviton guns in friendly super-casual games?

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>>49230525
I don't mind them. They're a callback to the old RT era launchers. Everything else that uses that visual style is just utter shit, though.

It's sad that we'll never get Space Crusade style missile launchers.

>>49230689
they suck in 30k for the most part. so i doubt anybody would care

40k grav =/= 30k graviton

>>49230669
Well, it's basically just a blast shield. On the shoulder fired one, if you look at the model from both sides, the shooter's face is right next to the muzzle and the sight even extends beyond it. So the plate directs the muzzle flash away from the shooter.

On the hip fired one and the Scorpius the plate serves no purpose and it should have just been a plain tube muzzle. But because of reasons the same old style had to persist. Because FW can make lascannons without the slanted muzzle, but they can't make missile launchers that don't look like other missile launchers.

>>49230525
Short answer: I don't remember, but the higher the difference between the Actual Cost in regular HHS and the Iron Havocc' is, the better.

I think it meant "How many points of regular Heavy Weapons squads you need to even hit the same amount of times the Iron Havocs can?", but that reasoning would fall short because not only I'm not taking into account their Tank Hunters, but also I multiplied it by 7/6, my concept of "+1.16% more efficient", when I should have multiplied it by full 1.25, the actual difference between BS5 and BS4.

I shall redo it later, with the Fulmentari vs Tyrants colours and such.

>>49230597
Ugh, not even my love for blast shields could make me tolerate those models.

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>>49230444
>>49230777
Triple IVths, triple 7s.
I'll get to ride the Ironfire shiny and bitter, and also drink the Cups with Morty.

>>49230689
they're just haywire blast guns in 30k for the most part, and they're heavy, and they're short range. they're pretty good on double CCW contemptors but unless the infantry you're giving them to have relentless they're not very useful. like, iron hands running their unique RoW could run a unit of tactical support marines with them, but since they literally can't shoot their 18" range guns if they move at all they're not actually very good.

>>49230812
7th legion are Imperial Fists ya dingus.

>>49230597
All FW needed to do was make a HW arm set for different marks that you can buy alongside your heavy weapons. But nope, lets force all heavy weapons to fit the bolter arms.

Shoulder fired heavy weapons are best (5 Sol Pattern HB kit when, FW?), tripod/bipod mounted ones second.

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>>49230812
>shiny
YOU HAVE NOT RIDDEN THE IRONFIFRE HARD ENOUGH THEN, BROTHER SCORPION.

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>>49230832
Shhh, it's Nurgle's number. Also, how could you get a triple 14? That shit is extra hard.

But it's ok. Kalkator & Magneric's former friendship is canon :^)

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Alright, so I am trying to find out precisely what I did wrong. I am trying to follow the guides given to me to not fuck this up, and would like all of the criticism about where and how I fucked it up. First is just base coat of watered down dark green and black.

>>49230860
Is typhus corrosion a good idea for iron warriors or should I just load up on nuln oil and coat them in it?

>>49230860
Ok, steely and bitter. 2.1% carbon per weight it is.

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>>49230889
Loks like the camera focused on the letters instead of on the marine, dude. Just saying.

>>49230894
Nuln and a shade or two of agrax. Dantioch uses two shades of Agrax for that extra dirty look, though he also uses FW's weathering powders on his later stuff. Typhus Corrosion would probably work on vehicles/larger models, dunno about regular legionnaries.

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>>49230929
This any better?

>>49230970

now it's focusing on the keys.

That or your model is blurry in reality

>>49230970
His blurry hand looks as if fapping an invisible daemon dong. Is he a Sons of Horus?

If you aren't tired ot this, maybe it happened because both times you had letters in the picture. I don't know if you're phoneposting, but some phones can be manually focused.

>>49230932
Black prime, leadbelcher base, nuln oil shade x2, agrax x2? Does agrax make metal look dirty?

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THESE HORRID TACTICALS SAVES YOU MORE THAN 50£ IN SAVINGS!

WHY ARE THEY HORRID, YOU MIGHT ASK?


mostly because they're not my legion is all. That's it, really.

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>>49229203
Extra IG would mean you could play as both IM in 30k and, well, IG in 40k. And if you want to have something to do with IW, you can be the corpses they grind!
Just remember, footsloggers morph into craters too frequently in 30k.

>>49230713
>It's sad that we'll never get Space Crusade style missile launchers.
Rapid fired mini missiles. That behaves more like a Maxima Bolter if you ask me.

>>49231199
>ywn have a larger hip-fired Legiones Astartes version of that to truly replicate that WWI feel.
But why?

>>49231179
REEEEE DELET THIS
Why does FW give the IH their own tacs that have everything I want?

>>49231288
>Why does FW give the IH their own tacs that have everything I want?
because ur faggot dad stole my dads hammer

>>49231324
He didn't steal it, stupid! It was a gift! Gee, maybe all those augments are deteriorating your brain or sumfin'.

>>49231355
its rightful medusan hammer

prepare for war

>>49231369
Yeah, well my dad can beat up your dad! Plus my dad beat up the guy who made it in the first place!

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>>49231021
Phoneposting, those were the only ones I thought were good enough. This is where I am currently, hopefully with satisfactory quality

>>49231288
"ywn"?
>>49231324
>>49231355
>>49231369
>>49231392
My sides.

>>49231400
Turns out it wasn't the camera: your model is indeed blurry in real life as well...
But I like his greaves and...eyeshadows.

>>49231392
ur dad isnt even 80% cybernetic. hes just 100% faggot.

the hammer is rightfully ours by birthright

>>49231400
Anon, I have to say I'm not impressed. No offence, but it looks like you couldn't stay inside the lines and decided to leave the legs with blotches of red rather than going all the way, if you know what I'm trying to say?

Watch some painting guides on YT, like Saint Duncan of Warhammer TV, and Miniwargamer(I think that's the one, might not though) just to get a general feel for how you should paint Space Marines/what the finished product shoukd look like, even if they're nit Salamanders videos.

>>49231431
You Will Never

>>49231469
Yeah, well it's ours by right of conquest! Let's see your dad try and take it from him! Too bad my dad's got a bit of a head start in that race!

>>49231469
But your dad hates your cybernetics and hoped it was just a phase!

>>49231472
I was watching a few pointed out to me earlier, and I am not done with it, just trying to find where I'm messing up. The red blotches would have orange highlights to make a magma effect.

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>>49231513
dont make me call my big brother moonman

he'll go full necron on your ass

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>>49231586
That's not fair and you know it! I'm gonna call big bro Beep Boop, he's pretty tough, y'know.

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>>49231513
Ah, thanks.
>>49231288
>>ywn have a larger hip-fired Legiones Astartes version of that to truly replicate that WWI feel.
Come again?

>>49231586
>he'll go full necron on your ass
I hope not. The Necrons' own assault moon was rammed and blown up by the Astral Knights.

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>>49231400

Try again.

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This dude walks up and slaps your Shadowsword

What happens?

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>>49231676
pshh i bet beep boop isnt even xenos tech

he probably wasnt even bloodwrought

doubt he even has a murderous arsenal

>>49231785
It explodes

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>>49231785
ANGRON, I TOLD YOU NOT TO TOUCH THE TORMENTOR! REEEEEE

>Spanish and Bio test tomorrow
>really unsure how I'm going to do
Maybe I should have taken French, but I feel like I would invite the Ride more so than usual. So, how has these threads been since I was away? Did the campaign idea take off? Any games lately? Did you invite Mr. Bones to show you a bad time?
>>49231785
Are those skulls/faces engraved on his armor or is it Chaos made changes? Also, is that suppose to be a heart or what?

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>>49231921
I forgot my picture.

III Legion MKIII brothers where are you at?

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>>49231921
I got home last friday ready to get a good start on painting just to find this.

I've been itching to paint all week but too lazy to go to the LGS and buy more paint.

>>49230644
I'm using this justification to make
Librarians mastery level 3 with burning lore.

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>>49231682
>Come again?

Maxim bolter, looks like a water cooled machine gun.

>>49232013
Why not buy all the paint you need in advance? Also, did anything new get released while I was away? Did BL book #4765: The Emperor and Malcador bake bread and cook chicken tenders get released?

>>49232102
I had the paint I needed. the lib popped open while I was at work and the paint all dried.

>>49232013
>using shitadel paints
serves u right 2bh

>>49232054
Man, that guy looks like he's got class and style. He's ready to anachronistically rock out some sweet riffs with that Maxim, brother!

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>>49232146
Sorry to hear that, Anon. Take this and wonder when FW will give us fluff on the Hands who became these niggas.

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>>49231838
Naw baby its kewl. Chillax Perty. Ol Obelisk and Angerman go wayyyyy back! Yeah!

>>49231921
>So, how has these threads been since I was away?
So that's why the threads died.
>>Spanish test tomorrow
EZ

>>49232231

Exodia.

>>49232247
Says the Scorpion who lives in Mexico.
>So that's why the threads died
College. Had an online class that was stupidity incarnate. But thankfully I got a giggle out of my laptop saving two searches for me.
>looks heretical
>Gorgon Terminators
Want to know how to stop sexual harassment? Get all the sleazebags to look heretical so Gorgon Termies can burst in and murderizie them. I swear I felt the urge to put "deepstrike and purge the unclean" on that question.

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>>49232159
>buy several pic related
>put on Marine arms
>dakka dakka

>>49227143

>tfw stubborn Terran veterans hang on to their MKII

I'm taking mastery level 3 word bearer librarians due to burning lore.

It's amazing

>>49232345
I'd imagine they at least keep it in their rooms in case they need something to wear.

>>49232372
I'm pretty sure a librarian can't take it.

>>49232345
>tfw stubborn Iron Warriors take everyone's MkII AND MkIII.
Feels good, man.

>>49232372
cheater

>>49232442
It says. Centurion. Makes centurions mastery level one. Consuls are still centurions. Begins at mastery level 1. May take up to two mastery levels for twenty points each. Easy peasy.

>>49232442

ya it's diabolist chaplain or regular centurion

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>>49232461
Communing with the Emperor for the past couple of days have shown me the true Shaftenating. It's not the Not!Iron Circle for Dorn I thought of and that one Anon made rules for. No. It's the day the Ironfire is stripped from you. You will know true bitterness when your treason forces you to use horrible Chaos garbage.

>>49232542
RoWs that require centurions can be fulfilled by characters that are centurions. A centurion includes the upgrades.

>>49232601
Forgeworld oversight.

>>49232598

it's an upgrade and lists specifically chaplains and diabolists (consul upgrades) and centurions

>>49232540
Then why does it list Chaplain and Diabolist if all consuls can have it?

>>49232601
Why would you be able to use Erebrus as an hq/chaplain/diabolist if that shit didn't carry over? Yah fuckboy.

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>>49232540
So that's why you wanted to know if a Consul was still a Centurion, without providing any further context.

Never trust a Word Bearer.

>>49232637
Remove Word Bear? Remove Word Bear!

>>49232616
>>49232629
Forgeworld inaccuracies.

Why would any HQ choices still be considered centurions if they take upgrades? Independent characters like Khyr Valen, Kor Partheon, Erebrus?

Hmm?

>tfw the only thing stopping me from having an all MkIII army are the Quad Mortar and Medusa crew
Why?

>>49232637
It served its purpose. Establishing a baseline that's already gone over by other rules, RoWs that allow characters to fulfill multiple roles despite raw semantics. A consul is obviously still a centurion.

>>49232672
Because your an Iron Warrior.

>>49232659
>Forgeworld inaccuracies.

Of course it is, otherwise you'd be a dirty cheater.


>Why would any HQ choices still be considered centurions if they take upgrades? Independent characters like Khyr Valen, Kor Partheon, Erebrus?

Because their own entries tells you that they fill those roles?

>>49232672
because you haven't bought MkIII marines and stuck operator arms on them yet?

Quad Mortars should be accompanied by two models with bases anyway. It's just that FW models make everyone cheat and pretend there's a base there. The commander holds a bolter too despite only being equipped with a bolt pistol

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>>49232686
Denote a vanilla Centurion, without also including other Consuls.
Also, the Burning Lore upgrade specifies it's available to Praetors, Centurions, Diabolists and Chaplains.
If it was also available to Librarians, it'd say "Consuls" rather than Centurions.

All Word Bearers lie. Destroying them is the only way to avoid their influences

>>49232707
The point I'm getting at is that it's a given that they are centurions in addition to their upgrades. That point doesn't need to be proven.

You cite the evidence yourself.

what are some good cheap 3rd party alternatives for quad mortars?

>>49232765
Al, you hate Word Bearers almost as much as Barnyfag hates ponies. Was your ex a WB or summat like that?

Spoiler'd for protection from him, hopefully. If you do not know who he is, please do not ask. Or mention/post anything in the spoiler for the thread's sake.

>>49232769
>they are centurions

According to what? Their entries says fuck all about them being centurions or being able to fill in the role of a plain centurion if needed.

You've cited shit to prove any of your points, just spouted baseless shit and disregarded everything against you as errors on behalf of FW.

>>49232765
Could you also link the specific wording for the centurions upgrades?

>>49232821
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tracked-Gun-Weapon-Platform-with-accessories-PACK-OF-SIX-/282153155564?hash=item41b1a37bec:g:ObkAAOSwT6pVqixB

>>49232821
They're cheaper than GW's thunderfire cannons.

>>49232862
that costs as much as a quad mortar
>>49232886
isnt saying much. thunderfire cannons look better though

>>49232920
>that costs as much as a quad mortar

You do realize it's a pack of 6, right?

>>49232920
>that costs as much as a quad mortar
nvm didnt notice it was for 6 of them. thats great
>>49232862
thanks.

6 thudd guns should cause immense asspain

>>49232834
I don't know who that guy is either, and she didn't play wahamms.
Your spoiler confuses me.
But considering WBs ruined the Imperial Dream, it's only natural to hate them.
We must make the Imperium Great again.

>>49232987
He's an insane anon with a filter that detects the spoiler and any images of them. He then floods the thread with rants of how the spoilers ruined the shiw he's named for and hiw fans if the spoilers shoukd die violently.


And I'm serious, he's legit insane. To the point where he published a paper and posted it on one of the boards that proved he had multiple mental illnesses then claimed it wasn't him. He's been permabanned so many times now it isn't even funny.

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>>49232987
Word Bearers and their Primarch may be shit but hot damn their models are great.

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>>49232769

Redbook can be interpreted both ways. FAQ adding new consul types can not.

Says Centurion can be upgraded to a (Consul X). The name change implies he isn't a Centurion anymore, he's a (Consul X) now.

>>49233052
Aw man, I remember him. He's ruined at least two threads on here in the last month, iirc.

>>49232769
I don't know, if they still are Centurions then the line "No Consul may have more than one particular upgrade." would have no effect and allow you to have a chaplainforgelordvigilatormoritatdelegatusherald. So somehow I highly doubt that.

But don't let that stop you from being The Last Rulebender.

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>>49233052
>>49233152
Woah.
>>49233098
Oh I'll concede that. Zardy is one of the best minis ever, along with his bodyguards.

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>>49233327
>Thinking you can trust FW's rulebooks
>2016
If you can give Burning Lore to any Consul, why specify Chaplain and Diabolists as well?

Fine anons, I concede, I am now playing mechanicum. Hope your happy you spoiled my cheese.

>>49233718
?

>>49233499
>You can give any random militia's sergeant a hand flamer
>But not your Praetor
Sadness.

>>49233718
What?

>>49233731
>>49233743
You spoiled my Word Bearer cheese, I have forsaken my gods like a true word bearer and found a new path.

The path of the mechanicum.

Would it be reasonable that there be a phosphex round for the typhon?

If I cant have a little cheese, I will have maximum cheese.

>>49233784

But Mechanicum can't take burning lore at all, anon...

>>49233770
Play Ordo Reductor then. With allied Iron Warriors.

Or Ironfire with allied Minotaurs because Ordo Reductor can take them as HS instead of LoWs.

I have a question regarding the Army of Dark Compliance. A couple, really. Tainted Flesh provenance says that the only HQ choices for the detachment can be Force Commanders and Rogue Psykers, but the Dark Compliance rules state that the Warlord must be a Praetor or Centurion/Consul. Does one rule overwrite the other? And do the provenances only affect the cult/militia aspect of the army or the marines as well?

>>49233799
God damn it.

>>49233811
No. No Iron Warriors.

>>49233499
But Burning Lore can only be given to Centurions, not Consuls. Did you even read that comment properly ?

>>49233830
Provenances only affect Militia units with the Provenance rule.

Also, you should ask FW for that bit. At first I thought the answer was obvious then I understood the question fully.

>>49233991
Alright, I emailed them. Hopefully they get back to me soon.

>>49233861
Uhh, I think I should have answered to this comment instead >>49232769

WB tried to give Burning Lore to a Librarian Consul, arguing he's still a Centurion.

It'd be nice to bury this argument.

>>49234737
No Alacran, there is only one way to continue.

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Has anyone ever actually used this or the Castellum?

>>49234894
If I could buy it from Z I would have.

>>49231400
You got a detail brush? Like his greaves

>>49234894
I had a castellum before the postal service lost all my stuff. Its an amazing asset in battle, generally would save for 2500+ pt games, deck it out to mess with reserves and get 2 battle cannons and 3 whirlwind launchers

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>>49230970
Are you Salamanderanon from above? Or is that a Son of Horus. Your painting is crisp so far, but that green is too blue and too dark for Salamanders (and for SoH, imo).

If you are Salamanderanon and you want a lava effect on the legs, I wonder if you were trying to duplicate Salamander models I've seen with round blister-looking things on a black background. I wouldn't; it looks weird. Instead, go more for the cloaks on these guys.

Paint wide stripes of dark red, slightly thinner stripes of red, then orange, yellow, and finally very narrow white lines.

>>49231400
Paint from the inside out - first the eyes, then the helmet around it. Don't use a very small brush (they dry before you even get the mini); I get better results with a standard-sized brush new enough to have a fine point.

>>49229979
And that WE Terminator squad takes 9.19 unsaved wounds before they get to attack when charged by Phoenix Terminators costing only 90 points more, or 8.89 unsaved wounds when charged by Phoenix Spear Palatine Blades for 40 points less, or 8.33 unsaved wounds when charged by Suzerains for 50 points less.

It's pointless to try to one-up units since there are hard counters for everything, especially if you place them in a favorable vacuum.

>>49229171
Dantioch, argel tal, torik torgaddon, fabius bile, etc etc rules when

>>49223979
Here's my way of painting black, happy to share for another member of the First

Prime black (obviously)
Heavy drybrush Dark Reaper
Lighter drybrush Russ Grey
Glaze with 4:1 Lahmian Medium:Abaddon Black

>>49230597
Would the blast shield not need to be rotated or extended so, you know, it actually shields the marine's head from the blast?

>>49229979
Yeah but storm shields are so rare, and if you survive to the second term of combat you're basically guaranteed to win that battle
>>49229326
It would make sense,
>what's the point of stealth when my men just march forward with flames in their hearts and breath
>>49229203
Start imperial guard/militia as we'll have too many iron warriors by the end of the year, and I love their Great War feel, but sending waves of men in between artillery barrages isn't very fun
>>49229110
Guillimans cost more but they have better rules and higher BS, so it averages out that theyre better

Hello, I would like to ask a question to which the answer is probably "no, that's fucking lorerape", but would still like to check as it's quicker to ask here than go through the books, and I'd like to know just to be sure.

So, quite a few legions contain chapters which would later become 2nd founding chapters after the big split. My question is, did these chapters wear the same colours as the parent legion during the heresy, or did they already wear the colours they would wear as a standalone chapter? Let's take flesh tearers as an example, were they in all-red like good little blood angels, or would they be wearing black shouldpads and helmets at this point? Similarly with the assorted claw (ashen/brazen/etc.) chapters, although I realise the whole blackshields thing muddies the water when we're talking about them.

>>49237968
Eh. They don't seem that much better for the points you're paying. It's pretty much only against AV14 that you see a big difference, most lower AV vehicles are HP3 so all the fulmentarii are achieving for their points is greater overkill.

>>49231400
Your painting is terrible. Don't post here again until you've actually bothered watching a few tutorials on youtube. You have to be autistic since you ignore the advice people give you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5xalX3aKAs

DUNCAN HAS BLESSED US! RIDE THE IRON! DECIMATIONS FOR EVERYONE!

>>49237974
Nah, legions followed one colour scheme. There may have been slight variants for certain units but not to the extent you're asking

>>49237974
if you go through the books you'll see that legions did change schemes and also had variants for special units/randoms who just felt gangsta that day (see knight anon's iron fist warriors). Personally I'd say it'd be fine but I'm not a lore nazi like some.

>>49236742
>>I'm not saying Firedrakes are weak or anything, I'm just saying nothing is invincible.

So I got my hands on two BAC contemptors that Im chopping up and reposing, but Im not sure how to arm them. One is going to be a kheres mortis because dakka, but I kinda wanna make the other into a double fisto dread, but Im not sure if theyre garbage or not. Should I do it? Or is it better to run a standard contemptor with the multimelta fist?

>>49237974
It could happen. Argel Tal's chapter was red when the WBs were still grey granite. Templar brethren were black with yellow, chapters had their own heraldry...

Stuff happened.

You got something specific in mind?

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>>49238766
Pretty much the flesh tearers 40k scheme (but using a brighter red than GW so they don't look like word bearers). I just find pure monocolour schemes really dull, so don't want to do pure red, but the blood angels are My Guys.

Had got all hopeful when I found this picture of Amit, but given the armour he's wearing and the fact he has a crux terminatus I assume this is actually post-heresy. Maybe I should just pull the blackshields excuse and be done with it.

>>49238565
They did not. Not even close. Heck, one of the chapters in HH1 starts with the multitude of different color schemes the legions had. Are they all at least semi-close to the standard legion colors? Sure. But you'll still find plenty of indicators of the 2nd founding chapters.

>>49238845
Go for it. A BA with black shoulders is way more acceptable than fucking blackshiields.
Besides, Amit just will be a character.
They won't pull another Argel Tal... right?

>>49233098

Are 30k WB really shit?

>>49238974
30k WB are one of the best legions.

It's just that a lot of people here unjustly hate them for fluff reasons.

>>49238990

I'm undecided between some loyal legion (Ultramarines, Salamanders) , WB, WE or Alphas

>>49239000
Well, what do you look for in a legion?

>>49238845
>>49238910
Amit survived the Heresy, he led the Flesh Tearers to Cretacia to establish it as their homeworld.

>>49238990
I think it's because a lot of people read the first trio of HH novels and are left thinking what a monumental cunt Erebus is. A dislike of the word bearers legion in general kind of develops from there.

>>49239040

And does literally anything Erebus does afterwards prove that he isn't anything other than a monumental cunt?

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>>49238990
>unjustly
Anon, my rage for them and Word Bear Prime can be barely contained. It's unbearable. Word Bears would have been a better name, or even World Bearers would have been cooler even if that's what I used to call them back when I got them and the World Eaters mixed up.
>Word Eaters
Thinking back how did I ever think that was an actual name? But hey, there's a Warband named Gladiator Group 138, and a chapter named The Nameless so maybe Word Eaters isn't so bad after all.
>>49239040
I really really hate Erebus but I like how he's polite enough to knock on your door.

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>>49239070
No he does not. He's unrepentant with his continued crimes of being a Word Bearer while being a Word Bearer in addition to several counts of being Eberus.

>>49238880
In answer to the original question of
>did these chapters wear the same colours as the parent legion during the heresy, or did they already wear the colours they would wear as a standalone chapter?
My answer is correct.

Your statement of
>Are they all at least semi-close to the standard legion colors? Sure. But you'll still find plenty of indicators of the 2nd founding chapters.
Seems to agree with mine of
>There may have been slight variants for certain units

My answer wasn't a blanket "no colour changes what so ever" but rather that before/during the heresy Astartes who eventually became second founding chapters didn't wear the colours of that chapter. At least not in the majority of marines or if the colour scheme was vastly different from the parent legion.

For example eventual genesis chapter marines may have had a red shoulder pad but they certainly weren't standing in the ultramarines battle lines with the whole thing looking like a rainbow.

>>49239040
Probably.

>>49239077
>>49239103
See mate? This is what I mean. There's nothing really wrong with the Word Bearers. People just have an irrational hatred of them.

>>49238990
>It's just that a lot of people here justly hate them for fluff reasons.
FTFY

>>49239126
>legion of crybabies who ruined everything
>irrational hatred

>>49238990
>The only space marines to fail their purpose.
>Atheists who became church boys
>Lorgar listened to some old guy instead of listening to the Master of Mankind
>Corrupted one of the bro-est Primarchs.
>Created the Ruinstorm and fullfilled Angron's prophecy
>Unjustified.

>>49239020
Yes, I'm saying he's due some 30k rules. Like Argel Tal.

>>49239018

Word Bearers for chaos in 30k, but the rest can all be pretty vanilla, save for Salamanders , which are slow and I dont like that.

I was thinking Alpha Legion since they can have any other legion's shit , the lore is good, the rules are good and the paint scheme is good

>>49239126
Want to know a reason why I dislike them? They had to pick red for their new colors. Nothing is wrong with red but why red? Why not Betrayer's Orange?

>>49239126

Are you trying to defend Erebus? Never thought I'd see the day when someone would defend the most unlikeable character in all of 30k.

>>49239194

What did Erebus do?

>>49239160
Argel Tal has rules in the same way that Autek Mor and Maloghurst have models. It's there, just not in name.

>>49239201

Set the Horus Heresy in motion. Start the events that led to the Emperor being entombed in the Golden Throne. Corrupted Lorgar and Horus. Killed Argel Tal. Kick-started the eventual fall of mankind and victory of Chaos.

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>>49239201
Everything ever is his fault. He basically dug a hole for humanity's hopes and dreams, and ever life lost during and after the Heresy. Pic related.

>>49239230

So?

The Emperor was the literal antichrist anyways.

Good riddance and good that he got cucked by fellow warp entities (the chaos gods)

>>49239250

So the extinction of Humanity and the triumph of the warp is a good thing?

Are you Carnac?

>>49239194
No, not at all, I'm just saying it's odd that people hate the Word Bearers as a whole rather than the characters who became known as the ones who set the heresy in motion.

Heck, even in-universe WB hated Kor Phaeron.

>>49239250
What infuriates me more aren't your heresies, Word Bearer, but how you lot genuinely believe in them.
Even Angron knew he was the baddie, while Lorgar was worried about history labeling them as traitors if they lost.

And when Nails-for-brains Angron starts making more sense than you, that's when you should be aware you're fucking up.

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>>49239250
Found the Word Bearer.

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>>49239291

This is easily explained

-The Emperor is the christian Antichrist

-Angron was a self-hating emo fuck, thus explaining why he "knew" he was wrong

-The Chaos gods are fellow warp entities, on par with the Emperor. I dont favor them, but I like that the Emperor was fucked by his equals.

Erebus is another pawn, and I'm not a Word Bearer

For I follow the threefold path

>>49239333

Your Primarch is dead. he got Dorn'd.

>>49239291
If he was worried about he should have not listen to Chaos Statler and Waldorf.
He should have rolled the dice and see what is there.
>If it's a one I'm going to listen to them.
I wouldn't use a 1D10 however. More power to the Dice Emperor of Mankind.

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>>49239349

SHUT UP

REPORT REPORT REPORT

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

I want at least a slim chance of summoning daemons with my DG. Would fielding Zardu with a Dark Channeling Tactical Squad (modeled as a sorcerer and a bunch of plague marine type things) as Allies work?

>>49239333
>-The Emperor is the christian Antichrist
Wasn't He the literal Christ? At least The Last Church was unknowingly devoted to Him.
>-Angron was a self-hating emo fuck, thus explaining why he "knew" he was wrong
Angron was an All-hating angry fuck, and he wasn't a fool. He just didn't give shit about things regular people give shits about, due to being angry enough.
>-The Chaos gods are fellow warp entities, on par with the Emperor. I dont favor them, but I like that the Emperor was fucked by his equals.
What saddens me is that even in the future mankind is the greatest threat to itself, instead of being unified against filthy xenos, like the Emperor wanted.
And with the Chaos gods being the ones who empowered Him millenia ago and only growing ever stronger afterwards, I'd hardly call them "equals". Emps only gained warp power after He recieved adoration.
Before he was simply a the most powerful immortal psyker, divine yet not a god.

Guys, I'm not going to make another thread. Someone take charge here.