Warhammer 40k General

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>>49200938
Does anybody have pre 6e codecs on pdf. I tried asking in the last thread but no one responded.

>>49200977
Its in the OP you nonce

Can Khorne Daemonkin be used in traitors hate formations? Blood tithes with the talon formation?

>>49200938
Does anyone have waaggh gazkhul 8ed pdf? The mega in the op only has the 6ed one.

>>49201011
0/10

>>49200938
Jesus when is somebody going to upload stuff to the Black Library and Supplement archives?

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>>49200990
Nope. You already had your chance, now it's undivided's time to shine.

Also would you play against my casual 1500 point list:

Demon prince, nurgle, mace, wings, ml3
Chaos warband:
Huron blackheart (warlord)
Sorcerer

3 chaos terminators with combimeltas

2x 5 man nurgle chaos marines w/ plasma

1x 3 man nurgle biker squad with 3x melta

2x havocs w/ 4 autocannon and 4 missiles

1x Helbrute w/ reaper autocannon and power fist

Auxiliary: 1x 3 chaos spawn (converted from ogryns)


Not competitive yeah but fun? Bet how many turns before I'm tabled?

>>49201077
But why? The detachment says only csm, but the small formations have no such text. Is it the symbol on top of the sheet? Think that's generic formation symbol..

>>49200990
Unless it expressly permits it, you can't.

What would be a good purchase to make a Nid kill team out of? I already own three Zoanthropes and 8 unassembled gargoyles.

>>49201077
PDF of that book anywhere?

>>49201122
At least hold off begging untill release day.

>>49201113
What permits them to be used with csm?
I'm not trying to be a dick, I just want to know. It's the undivided star at the top right? I'm partly asking cause my kdk friend is gonna use them and I'm unsure he can.
Really I'm fine with either way.

>>49201116
Warriors are pretty badass when there's no massed 8/3 firepower to threaten them.

>>49201116
probably some warriors to run with the gargoyles and be your heavy hitters and synapse.
In kill team zoanthropes don't get their psychic powers so it's not worth taking them.

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How am I suppose to get this?
Collector cards? What the hell are those?

Why, oh why, does each general keep using that shitty drawn image and not some decent 40k image? It's not like there isn't nearly 40k images to use, but no we get this retard image it's just not funny!!

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>>49201150

Seems fairly explicit that they do get it.

>>49201171
>making fucking cool model
>hide it behind some dumb gimmick paywall
every time

>>49201171
probably like other loyalty points systems where buying stuff gets you points towards the thing. though this looks less awesome as points systems usually let you get the thing for free and this looks like you have to purchase the special mini on top of filling out the card. still i like that thing and a non curved crozious is fuckin' tits.

>>49201092
They aren't the same faction. Kdk could ally them like chaos can ally in the kdk hound and biker pack

>>49201184
isn't there something about the psychic brotherhood rule not doing anything?
Which given the zoanthropes don't independently have the psyker rule can't cast powers.

or am i getting editions mixed up.

>>49201146
The Detatchment page.

You can include the formation in a KDK army but they'll just be meat, no interaction with the KDK special rules.

>>49201180
Recognition.
To tell the general from the art dump threads, the question threads, the "hay here's a picture i found lets talk about it" threads.

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>>49201199

Yeah, seems like a GW fuckup where they meant to say "psykers are alone, not a choir" then created an argument.

speaking of killteam
is there a scan or something of it yet?

>>49201237
yes

>>49201250
Thank you.

so what's the verdict on the traitors hate stuff? not as bad as we'd feared, better than expected, mildly viable?

>>49201206
I'm gonna go with the star at the top of the datasheet rules which faction can be used. Detachment page in traitors book only says "this detachment", not all detachments

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>>49201257
Combo of the second two. Again, it does nothing to help the core problems of CSM, but it gives a lot more options to choose from (they now have over 20 formations to choose from, good or not), and a few of them actually do some good things (Warp Talons charging out of DS? Yes please!) It won't change anything in the meta outside of local, but hey, playing CSM in casual games might be fun again.

>>49201257

Definately not as bad as we feared. Some people in my area said maybe mildly viable even.

>>49201257
From what i can see, it's mostly a steaming pile of shit with too much tax. Kharn's formation has the ork start collecting bonus which nobody considers good anyway and berzerkers are too much tax. Raptor Talons seemed good but yay, disordered charge for no reason and stupid leadership shit, same with heldrake one. Happy for Night Lords players though cause that shit is fluffy as fuck.

The warpsmith stuff is largely bad and pointless since the oblits are mediocre by themselves and nobody takes mutilators. The forgefiend one is amazingly WORSE than the other one we got in the BL supplement!

It's nice how other armies get oodles of free shit and we get Hatred and the odd jump pack for one character. At least I can run my Rubrics in a formation to not have to take a sorc HQ though. What's funny is that the biggest reason why people bitched about 3.5 is that Iron Warriors dominated everything and the legion that gets the most love since.. has been Iron Warriors with Warpsmiths, Daemon Engines and probably the best formations CSM have access to.

>>49201257
its shit

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>>49201220

>22 Pink Horrors
>22+d6 Warp Charges

>>49201189
>cool model
>plastered with skulls

Pick one.

>>49201515
skulls are cool

>>49201302
>At least I can run my Rubrics in a formation to not have to take a sorc HQ though.
That's not a formation, it's just an option in the detachment.

>>49201257
Hold your horses we haven't seen the other rules yet. The artefacts and 'wargear' if it exists.

>>49201171
Well.... He'll have a decent e-bay re-sale value, as long as you don't paint him (just because painted plastic has a worse resale than painted metal.... not commenting on brush skills :P).

>>49201277
>combo of "better than expected" and "mildly viable"
>it does nothing to help the core problems of CSM
lolwut
>>49201257
It's shit. Detachment bonus is ass, the core formations are essentially reprints of existing Black Legion and Crimson Slaughter formations (seriously, there's like 1.5 supplements worth of formations split between the three books) with mediocre bonuses, and the auxiliary formations are full of tax and mediocre benefits. Even with these formations, CSM are going to struggle against all but the most casual of builds.

Has there been any word of the psychic powers? Straight reprints of the loyalist disciplines, or did we get some curveballs?

>>49201077
Formation bonus:
Double the tables, double the fun; also Objective Secured.
Fucking yawn. Chaos gets fucked again.

>>49201257
I'm not sure about mildly viable, but it's a little better than expected.
The decurion is fairly meh, +1 leadership and situational Hatred are not exactly comparable to some of the other boni, but it's better than nothing, I suppose.
Kharn not getting EW is hardly unexpected, but still stings, nevermind how he looks even more out of place next to the decades-old berserkers now.

Is there any way to make a tyranid killteam that's decent? Because there seems to only be like 4 or 5 decent options

What exactly was the point of reprinting an unchanged Kharn datasheet? You already need Codex: Chaos Space Marines to run him. Did they even give KDK permission to run him?

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>>49201257
Like the formation are huge, costly and offer what should have been default.

Better than before but far from:

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>>49201171

>AoS tier details on front of armour
>same chaos star detail as the new CSM cultists and chosen carry
>available only at the flagship uk store

>>49201257
Where are anons seeing the leaks of the formations

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>>49200938
What's the best faction currently available to represent squats

>>49201781

IG?

>>49201781
Marines of some persuasion, ideally ones with grav acess.

>>49201772
http://s1331.photobucket.com/user/KhadorBlood/media/Mobile%20Uploads/C__Data_Users_DefApps_AppData_INTERNETEXPLORER_Temp_Saved%20Images_14284838_10153865857293848_2003333056_o_zpsmr9lgei2.jpg.html

>>49201772
Have you tried looking in the thread?

>>49201781
>>49201787
Didn't play back then but weren't squats known for being hardy and great engineers? If so probably counts as marines with Iron Hands chapter tactics.

>>49201763
When did more detail become bad? Also AOS has great models you mong

>>49201257
I keep repeating this but ibsec on the warband is pretty sick.

I think too many people forgot how cheap csm termies and bikes are, and with this they now get obsec, hatred imperium, preferred enemy space marines, +1 leadership, and two free boons if you wish.

On a three man termie squad with tzeench and combi meltas that is alot for 137 points.

Bikes are the same story. They are not eldar shooting wise but are way more tough and much more useful with obsec.

>>49201869
There's detail and then there's beltsbeltsbeltsbeltsbeltsbeltsbeltsbeltsbeltsbeltsbeltsbeltsbeltsbeltsbeltsbeltsbeltsbelts levels of detail.

>>49201888
Yeah, T6 obj bikes with a lord who also has obj secured.

>>49201065
Do it yourself, you entitled brat

>>49201897
You sound like someone who doesn't think Lord Celestant Vandus Hammerhand isnt your spiritual liege. Don't tell me Ionus Cryptborn doesn't look cool

>>49201912
Less is more.

Are faggots still begging for CSM drop bags and vanilla CSM troops with boltguns to be "viable" ?

>>49201781
sisters of battle

>>49201958
No.

We just got it.

>>49201536

Nah. No gotta agree. That model would look so much fucking better if all that shit wasn't covering the actual model.

>>49201932 is 100% right

>>49201888
>and with this they now get obsec, hatred imperium, preferred enemy space marines,

I thought VotlW was Hatred: Space Marines. Where's preferred enemy coming from?

>>49201958
Nobody is and you already shat up the previous thread with your strawmen and autisms, virtualoptim/carnac/faggot

>>49201982
The Detatchment, same that makes WotlV free.

>>49201495
Considering you can't summon in Kill Team that just means you're paying 9ppm for a guarantee 24" 2d6 Heavy Bolter and a what? 1/2 chance of a potentially good power?

Also odds are most won't be able to fire due to the whole not having enough dice to manifest.

>Granted with 22 models about half shouldn't be in LOS / went to ground so the remainder should have enough dice.

>>49201888
>preferred enemy space marines
I keep repeating this, but you're a retard who doesn't even know the rules of the thing that he's desperately trying to delude others into thinking is good.

I mean, Jesus fuck, that terminator squad is 45 PPM for terminators. And you think that's a good deal?

Nurgle Bikers pay a premium for a result that is often not that much tougher than a regular bike (since they still drop like flies to anything that fucks up regular bikes).

>>49201989
Actually I schooled you guys and left you quivering.

I'll be looking forward to doing it again once you finally digested this new codex.

Odds are you'll just shit it out since you're all allergic to reason and crunch.

>>49201974
CSM are just an shitty as before. This does absolutely nothing to help them in competitive scenarios.
>>49201958
No, but you're still shitposting about it. Good job.

>>49201540
What? Yes you can, each formation can be taken standalone, so u can make an army of spawn if I want to with the other formation.

>>49202011
>45 PPM for terminators
31 ppm

Is mark of Tzeench ever worth taking?

>>49202013

Look forward to you telling us how great it is once we've spent half our points on Wyverns and Basilisks.

>>49202028
Anything with daemon or can take a sigil or aura, yeah. 4++ or 3++ is sexy

>>49202024
Anon was responding to other anon's Terminator loadout
>3 Tzeentchian Terminators with Combi-meltas for 137 pts (45-46ppm)

>>49202021
Those aren't formations, dipshit. No page number, no formation datasheet. They're just options for the detachment. Like the Incursion can just take single squads of Furies or the Iron Hands detachment can take Dreadnoughts and Tactical Squads.
>>49202024
137 divided by three is definitely 31, moron. Glad to see that your math skills are as lacking as your understand of CSM rules.
>>49202000
The detachment doesn't grant PE. At all.

>>49202021
no retard, unless it has a datasheet with a formation, its just a choice in the detachment

>>49202039
Likewise. I'm eager to hear how core mechanics in the game like allies are anti-RAW and how KDK power armour units aren't technically "Chaos space marines".

>>49202002

You also have 22 powers from the Lore of Change. Assuming an average split, that's 7 Bolts of Change and 7 Internal Gateways.

>>49201257
Seems decent. I've seen a lot of people moaning that (for example) the raptor formation isn't as good as skyhammer, but frankly anyone moaning that the new rules aren't as good as one of the most notoriously cheesy formations in the game is a twat. The traitor's hate stuff looks to have strengthened CSM, but not in a bullshit OP way, is what I'm saying.

>>49202028
Duelist lords. That's it. Even then you're fucked since the "one relic only" FAQ nerf gutted the worthwhile Lord builds.

It's too expensive to throw on anything else.

>>49201888
Not everyone plays objectives and besides, I can't shake the feeling its like a kid telling on the teacher cause he's not strong enough to stand up for himself. It's... pathetic? I dunno if that's the word. Just feel like a pussy

>>49202062
>The detachment doesn't grant PE. At all.
No it grants hatred for the imperial army.

>as your understand
am gud 2 se ur ritin r as gud as ur redink

>>49202002

That would be... Using 3 wc per cast to mostly guarantee casts, about 9-11 shorter range heavy bolters, losing one for every three wounds the kill team takes. Plus diverting dice to whatever the other power is.

It's decent, but not HOLY FUCK NO

>>49202073
It's not even as good as the Raven Guard Vanguard Veteran assault from deep strike formation. It's fucking ass. You have to court disaster trying to land close enough to get the charge off since Icons aren't allowed to be worthwhile, and the Disordered Charge thing neuters your assault to the point of uselessness. If it didn't have the tax lord it would at least make Warp Talons a cute unit, even if their lack of assault grenades means they get shafted hard by any half-way competent opponent.

>>49202062
My god, this autism can not stand. 137/3 = 45.6667. The true cost is 128 because VotLW is free which is 42.6667 PPM.

>>49202096
You literally just claimed that the detachment granted PE in this post here: >>49202000

When did GW dropped the new Deathwatch codex?

god I am broke right now

>>49202110
Just work for an hour and buy it

>>49202062
>>49202065
I don't believe it. Nothing tells me an entry cannot be taken by itself. Every part of a detachment with an entry can be taken by itself separate from everything else. If nit, point me where it says i cant cause I've seen people take rules-less "formations" on tg as well and nobody batted an eyelash

>>49202115
The vast majority of people don't make $50 an hour.

>>49202115
>an hour

unfortunately anon not everyone has zero bills and make that kind of money

>>49202120
core rulebook, formations and detachments. also right on the page with the decurion in every codex

>>49202120
Nothing says that the entries can be taken alone. We're told that formations can be taken alone, but formations have datasheets.
>I've seen people take rules-less "formations" on tg as well and nobody batted an eyelash
Bullshit. Even if it did happen, that's just because nobody pays attention to lists unless it provokes some reason to shitpost memes.

>>49202115
Deathwatch=/= Killteam

>>49201781
Maybe Nob-heavy Orks?

>>49202072
7?
Don't forget they updated Change to 6 powers so assuming even split you have 3-4 of each power

Lowlights being they S d6+1 AP- blast & Summon Flamers

Highlights being S d6+4 AP2 Beam, Sd6+4 AP1 Blast, S d6 AP4 2d6 Nova, and of course S D AP1

Granted with their BS3 I'd mostly just be using Flickering Fire, Nova, or Beam for the quantity of hits / hitting multiple units / auto hits.

>Again assuming that Psykers could use powers in Kill Team
>I don't know why GW didn't just keep Brotherhood of Psykers and state that you pick one model to manifest the power...

>>49202137
>>49202139
Not written = not a rule. End of.

>>49202151
>change updated to 6

100% unaware of this. I only have the demons Codex, and not in epub, which is upsetting.

>>49202158
you clearly have no brain. read the parts i pointed out, it says what you can do. you can't do anything thats not written there

>>49202092
>Plays against a Marine
>The Marineplayer doesn't use Grav, Bikes, or anything fancy.
>Usually ends with a few models left on the board.
>He still wins because of Objective Secured.

>>49202158
40k is a permissive ruleset. Unless the rules tell you that you can do "thing," you can't do thing. The rules tell us that we can take formations stand-alone in a battleforged list. They don't tell us that we can take random detachment options as stand-alone entities in a battleforged list.

>>49202099
Oh I completely agree. That was kinda the exact point I was making =P

>>49202169
>The Marineplayer doesn't use Grav, Bikes
i dont believe u

>>49202168
There's nothing that states entries aren't formations, they just happen to not have any rules attached to them. Either way, I'll email gw about it later

>>49202165
Updated via Daemonic Incursion edition Daemon codex / Curse of the Wulfen

why the fuck are gargantuans immune to poison?

defeats the entire point of poison

>>49202186
His army is a legacy from 4th / 5th and he hasn't got anything new, so lots of Tacticals with Plasma, Missile Devs, Land Speeders, and Rhinos.

>>49202205
They aren't immune.

>>49202192
a formation is only a formation if it has a datasheet with the three rings at the top, the formation symbol. as i said, as written in the core rulebook

>>49202199
Huh. I'll take a look

>>49202192
>There's nothing that states entries aren't formations
You have to be over 18 to post here. Shouldn't you be in school right now?

The "Choosing an army" bit on the Black Crusade Detachment's page tells us that the detachment is made up of a mix of Formations and Army List Entries. Can you point to a single shred of evidence that these are Formations and not just the aforementioned Army List Entries?

>>49202210
but they are

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>>49202215
Step out from under the rock and into the glorious light, fampai!

>>49202214
Right, so taufags can't take assigned air caste asset or drone network unless it's in a detachment yeah? I've seen that outside of it too. Doesn't make sense why you can't, it gives you more choice..

>>49202236
No, they aren't. Read the rules instead of shitting up the thread even more than it already is.

>>49202236
If i prove you wrong with you stop posting untill you finish reading the rulebook from cover to cover?

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>>49202236

>>49202248
Drone Network is a formation, it has a datasheet and everything.

You're correct about the Air Caste Asset, although I do believe that Death from the Skies essentially lets you take fliers as their own solo detachments anyways.

You're free to take whatever you want in an Unbound army, and the odds are pretty good that you won't really be losing out on much if you're trying to cobble together some sort of Frankenstein list out of various formations and Army List Entries.

>>49202260
>>49202263
Poison basically has no effect on them, if you actually read the rules you would know this.

>>49201171

Source?

>>49202260
>>49202263
>only wound on 6's
they are effectively immune you stupid autists

>>49202279
It's rare that you see such a clear cut case of goal post shifting. Or maybe you're just illiterate and don't know what "Immune" means.

>>49202236
>>49202236

No they are just always poisoned on a 6+

>>49202287
>>49202279
So Vehicles are immune to Gauss?
Units are immune to Tesla?
Both are immune to Rending?

>>49202299
so they are immune

>>49202306
God you're dumb

>>49202306
Adjective
immune (comparative more immune, superlative most immune)

(usually with "from") Exempt; not subject to.

>>49202295
>autism speaks

>>49202302
Everyone is immune to Rending.

Chaos Space Marines are immune to the Mark of Tzeentch.

Rhinos are immune to the Repair rule. I've been playing CSM since 2009 and I've never actually had one of my Rhinos manage to repair itself.

>Rules leaked but no fluff is leaked

Rulefags are the worse. Selfish bastards.

>>49202330
Buy it yourself and share then.

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>>49202013
>Actually I schooled you guys and left you quivering.
So in other word YOU WON!?

>>49202341
I would if I could. I ain't selfish. But the book hasn't been released yet and that's why I am whining about the leakers who focus only on the rulefag needs.

>>49202302
>poisoned (2+)
>jk my faggotknight is only wounded on 6's, guess i have to do follow USR when they hurt me. LOL

>>49202302
>>49202324
Is guess supposed to damage vehicles on a 4+?
Is tesla supposed to generate extra hits on a 4+?
Is rending supposed to be ap2 on a 4+?

You must be completely fucking stupid if you think GC downgrading poison to being basically worthless is the same as rending.

>>49202028
It would be for Warp Talons if you could make then dedicated daemons, presuming it wouldn't cost an arm and a leg

>>49202330
>Kharn kills everyone.
>The end

Traitor's Hate's Fluff section

>>49202369
Poisoned range all the way from 2+ to 4+

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>>49202039
>>49202013
>>49202071
>Chaos space marines are a powerful army!
>As long as you don't use any chaos space marines

>>49202395
Wrong again.
Several Nurgle abilities are poison 5+.

>>49202400
>new CSM supplement
>only good formation is one CSM and a bunch of cultists
Speaking of which, why is that the only way to get the Dark Apostle into the detachment? Why isn't he (or the Warpsmith) available as a command option? Why can't you use any of the Black Legion formations in the Black Crusade Detachment? Why do CSM warbands arrange themselves in exactly the same way as loyalist warbands?

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Which one?

>>49202434

Yes.

>>49202434
Magnets

>finally get my two sets of DW from a splitter
>ten thousand Storm Shields
>twenty thousand thunder hammers and power weapons
>no fucking special weapons
>for the faction whose whole gimmick is that each marine can be personalised and they can have a bunch of special and heavy weapons in a squad
>have to order some more bitz and wait around for them to arrive too

>start building a Dread
>there's no missile launcher
>no multimelta either, despite that being the default fucking weapon

Why the fuck does GW not just clean up their act? I mean shit, they could make a special weapons sprue that has three of each special weapon, slip that in with Death Masque and then also offer it as a separate purchase. Bam, suddenly people have the special weapon choices in your fucking codex, and the greedy fuckers who want like 4 grav guns in a squad will have to buy an independent (and probably overpriced) special weapon sprue. You're helping your customers whilst fucking making money, it's not hard.

>>49202287
So would you say Terminators are immune to non AP1/2 weapons?

>>49202453
pretty mutch

How would you feel if you turned up to the club, had a game set up for you and your opponent was using a printout of their codex rather than the actual book?

All the rules are the same, completely unchanged, he just used photoshop to compact his list's rules into 3 pages instead of carrying a book around with him.

>>49202453
terminators dont change USRs

it would be like terminators downgrading your ap2 shit to being ap3

>>49202464
Yes or No.

Are they able to be affected or not.

>>49202100
>Disordered Charge thing neuters your assault to the point of uselessness.
5 Warp Talons still kill 5 marines on average without assault benefits and Raptors can now make use of Melta bombs in additional to normal Melta when they arrive

>>49202453
Yeah, it's why Tzeentch MSU Terminators are going to be the next big power-build. 2+ makes you immune to all non-AP1/2, and a 4++ is essentially quasi-immunity. Plus, at only ~45 PPM, they're super cost-effective. And don't even get me started on that formation benefit. Finally we have a way to give CSM terminators the Hatred rule.

>>49202472
keep moving goalposts

>>49202468
I don't see a problem with that

>>49201171
I cant remember when GW did something cool as this, to be in power armor, that is.

>>49202446
Don't even need them, the gun platforms rest comfortably on top of the rhino chassis

>>49202468
I've been there, I never used to believe much in paying like $50+ for a book and I remember when you had to print out the Catachan codex.

>>49202468
I'd ask him I'f he'd be able to do it for other armies as well.

>>49202302
Orks are immune to their own damn armour saves.

>>49202485
Goalposts are unmoved, immune or not immune. immunity being absolute.

>>49202472
fluf whise they are but the in the TT they aren't this is the Schrödinger termi they can be immune and not immune at the same time

>>49202512
Players are immune to Seize the initiative!

>>49202513
partial immunity is an actualy term you braindead autistic child.

just like how you were partially immune to eating lead paint chips as a kid. they didnt kill you yet only gave you severe braindamage.

>>49202474
You're forgetting Hatred; it's actually ~6 marines on average.

Of course, that's assuming that you knocked them out of their free Rhino, and that you landed within charge range, and that they aren't standing in cover (like say, the wreck of their free Rhino) and manage to kill a couple between Overwatch and striking first, and that you came in from Reserves before he managed to attain an overwhelming advantage.

And, let's say you successfully murderize that entire combat squad. Now you're standing in front of their entire army with your dick in your hand, waiting for the boot to come down.

>>49202536
>partial immunity is an actualy term you braindead autistic child.

So is Non-flammable, still not the same as flammable.

>>49202513
Do you seriously think terminators are the same thing as GCs?
If you're going to meme like a retard and shit up the thread you shouldn't expect a serious answer.

>>49202400
>Khorne Berserkers aren't Chaos Space Marines.

I love when little babies fall into the semantics hyperbole trap to look intelligent.

>>49202547
your analogy doesnt even work you fucking retard

>>49202536
Maybe dipshit should have said "partial immunity" a few posts ago and saved us all this remarkable display in retard pack mentality.

>>49202548
>you shouldn't expect a serious answer.
I haven't expected one since you first posted.

>>49202482
HAHAHAHAH

Yes footslogging & blind deep-striking terminators are going to be "the next big thing"

>>49202557
so you were wrong and have no argument.

your autistic semantic based 'argument' just got fucking shit on, child.

go back to chewing resin chips

>>49202551
There will never be a competitive list the features Khorne Berzerkers before Age of the Emperor hits. The game is just way too stacked against foot-bound melee units. Too much would have to happen at once to make them viable. They would need to unfuck the CC rules AND give CSM a viable assault transport AND make Khorne Berzkers themselves not inherently ass.

>>49202557
No because Slow & Purposeful is the same as Relentless, except where it's but not it's still the same because ur an autism.

>>49202576
Preach the controversy, don't let anyone prove you wrong, if you believe it's true enough.

>>49202551
What would be a viable transport ?

I know FW has one. Some kind of Claw.

>>49202568
You heard it here. I didn't even mention the incredible utility of getting a free second round of fire with your combi-weapons.
>>49202588
>No because Slow & Purposeful is the same as Relentless, except where it's but not it's still the same because ur an autism.
I knew this whole thing smelled familiar.

>>49202482
>3 Terminators Deepstrike near my guard line, shoot their combi-meltas, destroying my Leman Russes.
>My turn: First Rank, Second Rank fire. Roll literal buckets of dice. End up causing 30 wounds.
>CSM player smiles and informs me his Terminators are immune to Lasguns.

GG please nerf.

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>>49202588
>the little baby didnt even know that partial immunity is a thing
>'b-but muh semantics that were wrong because im an illiterate retard means i win'

>>49202592

was meant to

>>49202577

>>49202592
>Dreadclaw
>viable

It's like a flying double bland-raider.

>>49202592
Dreadclaw is too expensive. You're paying 100 points on top of an already overpriced assault unit that's not particularly good at killing anything other than units that are already vulnerable to boltguns and flamers. Plus it eats your guys and doesn't get the Inertial Guidance System.

How do eldars live with themselves after fielding Wraith Knights?

>>49202073
The only strength to Skyhammer is the devastators. The Assault Marines have ATSKNF, arrive on turn one and get to assault with no downsides and are still considered the formation's useless bullshit unit tax.

>>49202626

Your tears feed them.

>>49202620
>>49202617

So what would be a good alternative to transport assault troops ? Land Raider is too expensive.

>>49202641
They don't have one.
Space marines need an assault transport that costs less than 60 or so points.

>>49202592
>>49202614
My response on the Claw is here, >>49202620, but what would work in theory?

Access to regular Drop Pods would be an easy fix. It doesn't help Berzerkers as much, but it's a massive boon for regular CSM squads. Let's them get to where they want to go, let's them shoot with their meltaguns, let's them charge on turn 2, and let's them take a character or two as well as a full ten man squad.

A purely theoretical viable assault transport would have to be AV12+ on the front/sides and be under 75 points.

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>>49202641
You know what chaos space marines DESPERATELY need?
Something just can't live without?
Drop pods. I mean how else will I get all my unmarked, footslogging marines up the table?

>>49202641
Skyhammer Annihilation
Two Assault Marine units that can charge same turn as well as Devastater units to provide covering fire / disable overwatch

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>>49202636
>The only strength to Skyhammer is the devastators
Seriously? Tying enemy artillery/ranged units isn't good or useful?
>considered the formation's useless bullshit unit tax.
By WAAC autists, but there's no way pleasing them, is there?

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Humans
>think their race is le warlike, get PTSD and kill themselves the same day
>their standard troops have cardboard armor and water guns
>corpse emperor
>look lame

Tyranids
>each organism is perfectly suited for his task and knows no fear
>their meat shields are more useful than entire IG
>Hive Mind is actually competent
>look great

>>49202694
the only people who take skyhammer are WAAC autists

>>49202186
Hell, not that anon, but I'm a marine player and I don't have a single bike or grav gun in any of my lists. And no formations either, all old style lists.

Even I'll admit I'm stubbornly holding onto a way of playing that's hampering me, but fuck me if it isn't fun to pull out wins that way.

>>49202641
Easy, make the Land Raider a super heavy that Rams instead of Thunderblitz. Now all astartes armies have an effective heavy assault vehicle that also provides a decent amount of supporting fire.

Leave Drop Pods as the bargain assault transport.

Then bump Rhinos up to 60 points base, give them av 12/12/10, and make them Assault Vehicles. Just remove the free Rhino detachments, and you're good to go.

>>49202696
>Perfected suited
>Have claws aimed towards themselves
>This offers only 1 attack option
>Holding them like a sword offers millions of options.

Yes, perfectly suited to stabbing things.

>>49202696
>bottom tier codex
How are your 4 flyrants treating you?

>>49202719
>implying I play tabletop

lmao sorry but 80's are over gramps no one spends hundreds of dollars to get his army of plastic soldiers and play with some neckbeard pedophiles when Dawn of War and Ultimate Apocalypse mod exists.

>>49202710
but the land raider is already the strongest unit in the entire game, buffing it would break the game completely.

>>49202717
>claws aimed towards themselves

just like real life mantis you retard

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>>49202696
Calgar defeated the greatest tyranid organism in single combat.

Cassius did it twice in a single war (picture related, the first time).

Millions of years of Tyranid evolution fall short versus a few centuries of bioengineering? Ha.

>>49202743
It's such a simple change, but it immediately fixes all of the Land Raiders problems without making it OP and makes a ton of different builds and units viable.

>>49202551
you know good KDK lists take no berserkers and no more CSM units than tax for formations, right

>>49202744
Which is not a perfect creature. It's sub optimal.

>>49202736
>no one spends hundreds of dollars to get his army of plastic soldiers

no one poor, sure

>>49202318
Which would mean that being subject to the effects, they are in fact not immune.

>>49202749
Calgar also got his limbs cut off and got gutted the only reason why he survived is plot armor.

>>49202696
nids are definitely the coolest xenos race
>>49202749
stop making me want to start ultramarines

>>49202762
The Hive Mind isn't sentient. Eventually it's going to get stuck on various fitness peaks regardless of how quickly it can evolve.

What's the worst army to face for:

-Space Marine
-Imperial Guard
-Orks
-Eldar
-Dark Eldar
-Harlequins
-Nec
-Tau
-Tyranid

>>49202773
Correct. That's what that anon was getting at. That's why he posted it in response to the retarded phoneposter.

>>49202785
eldar

>>49202736
>I don't play
>he says in a fucking board game image board general
>???

We really don't need more trolls, please go. Nids are ass and no one likes them anymore

>>49202785
>Eldar
>Eldar
>Eldar
>Daemons
>Eldar
>Eldar
>Daemons
>Eldar (or maybe Daemons)
>Eldar

>>49202776
The first time Calgar fought the Swarmlord, it wasn't alone.

The Swarmlord and a group of Tyrant attacked attacked Calgar together. Calgar fought admirable but he cannot fight all these opponents at once.

In the second fight, Calgar confronted the Swarmlord in a real 1 vs 1. Guess what happened? Calgar tore him limp to limp. Proving that the greatest bioweapon the Nids have is nothing to the warrior elite of mankind.

>>49202785

Tau

>>49202812
a group of Tyrants Guard*

>>49202812
How many Calgars are there and how many Swarmlords are there.

The Tyranids aren't a threat because of the capabilities of any one organism.

>>49202776
Lost Arms > Being killed

At Initiative Power Fist Hands > Puny Regular Arms

Point: Humans

>>49202694
It's useful, but not particularly good. They'll still crumble to overwatch unless you invest extra points in them, and they aren't particularly survivable even then.

And now CSM get to do that same tying up far worse by investing much more heavily into 3+ squads plus mandatory Chaos Lord.

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>>49202812
>warrior elite
>papa smurf
if hes so elite then why cant he fight memethirster?

>>49202812
>limp to limp

either you mean limb from limb, or you mean calgar only succeeded in breaking the tyrants foot

>>49202824
1 Calgar and 1 Swarmlord. The Swarmlord is a unique individual organism within the Tyranid race. It just gets mind stored by the hivemind and then uploaded into a new body each time.

>The Tyranids aren't a threat because of the capabilities of any one organism.

Yeah, yeah, their threat is that they are a near-endless swarm of chaft. But compared to warrior elite that mankind produces, the Tyranid race is lacking.

>>49202872 I like Tyranids but you sound real dickish. This isn't a dickswinging contest. Every race is described as being hot shit. Read beast arises - the ork literally kill every single imperial fist in a single attack. 10 companies.

>>49202843
What non-GC/Super Heavy best the D-thrister in 1v1 melee (besides Kaldor Dragio, Balesword equipped Nurgle Daemon Princes/ Great Unclean Ones, Nemesis Dreadknights, and maybe the Howling Banshee Phoenix Lord?

>>49202835
>They'll still crumble to overwatch unless you invest extra points in them
Or just shoot with one of the Devestator squads and get re-rolls if they manage to pin with 3d6

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>no slav space marines
>even Chaos ones

It's ok you know it's not like we have feelings or anything I'm glad even Mexicans are represented but we as usual in fiction are either ignored or just lumped together with not-ruskies.
You know what GW? Why not just have a chapter that has ''fuck eastern Europe'' as it's battle cry? Actually go a step further and make nazi marines that yell Heil Hitler to represent your stance on us better.

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>>49202608
>Opponent Deep-strikes Decimator behind my Ork lines
>*unsheathes butcher-cannon*
>Chaos player laughs and mutters 'nothing personnel...greenskin...'
>Utterly wrecks my Battle-wagon, explosion killing every boy inside
>I fire 30 Loota shots into him, just barely bringing down the mighty engine of Chaos with 4 glances
>Chaos player smirks and rolls a 6 on Unholy Vigor before informing me his Decimator is immune to dying

Fuckin csm cheese

>>49202872
>The Swarmlord is a unique individual organism within the Tyranid race.
Cloning is a thing... Only reason Tyranids don't shit armies of SW is because he's Crud's pet snowflake

>>49202896
An empowered orikan the diviner may be able to hold his own

>>49202926

Make your fuckin' own

>>49202896
anyone with a decent s6 weapon and instant death.

the howling banshee phoenix lord will struggle to harm it in cqc. s4 on t6 with 3 attacks and shred means maybe 1 wound

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Is it worth putting a Warp Smith into my 2k CSM army to use that Cult of Destruction formation? It seems really good if you make heavy use of obliterators already.

Here are my two lists, the one I'm running now and the one that uses the formation:

http://pastebin.com/2BRhdwwR

http://pastebin.com/dsP21jq1 (I can chose to take the Heldrake or the Nurgle Bikers depending on what I'm up against)

I'm thinking having 6 T5 W2 2+, 5++ shooty monsters with powerful combat attacks too storming through the center of the board, accompanied by Nurglings, would be fun.

>>49202926
>Actually go a step further and make nazi marines that yell Heil Hitler to represent your stance on us better.
that describes literally all of the space marines

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>>49202887
It is a dickswinging contest, and you are a liar.

The Ork kill the Imperial Fists by a surprising them with blowing up a planet, IIRC.

Even in the book series, we are the told repeatedly that the Orks are a distraction to the real threat that is Chaos, and that their Waaagh! is going to fail like all their Waagh! before and after.

The marines have taken to defeating the Beast Waaagh! and tearing it apart.

This is a problem with Tyranidfags. They start shit and when they get shit, they act like victims.

>>49202843
But he did.

>>49202969
I see GW has to be sued for glorifying nazism.

>>49202932
They can recreate the body but the Swarmlord mind is a unique thing in the ocean of the Hivemind.

>>49202926
>Tumblr
>Whining about representation
>Muh Nazis

You have to go back, back to the gas chamber.

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>>49202966

>GW thinks there are humans who own 3-5 units of Mutilators
>GW thinks this formation would be enough to entice someone to buy 3-5 units of Mutilators

>>49202966
Not really? The oblits can't double-tap with a weapon, or a fire a weapon they fired last turn either time, meaning it's kind of worthless.

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>>49202969

Red Scorpions are the most clear example of Space Nazis.

>>49202964
True, but she does take away his Axe, so no D, it just becomes a grindfest, which might end with the Phoenix Lord still dying. Didn't want to do the crunch.

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>>49202975
problem?

>>49202979
You would feel the same if your people were ignored.

>>49202982
Well, it basically means every second turn I have to shoot assault canons at a tank, assuming nothing else is in range. This sounds like a waste, but 20 S6 rending shots should be able to glance it to death, especially if it's the second round of shooting.

Kill Team from the POV of a newbie

>heres a giant book of every rule to learn first
>heres a book of things that are different

would it have killed them to do a cut down rulebook with only the rules required?
and perhaps one which includes a list of valid units?

could have been so much better.

>>49202996
you have some shitty metal imperial guardsmen

>>49203002
Those are fucking ruskies and IG sucks cock.

>>49202996
No, I don't bitch at Japan because it doesn't include white people in it's TV shows or only uses them as comic relief. I'm not a cultural leech who produces nothing of value so has to beg and whine to superior cultures so people won't forget my mud hut culture in 100 years time.

You're a parasite leeching off of the creativity of others. The world world would be better off without you.

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>>49202970
This is Calgar defeating the mightiest BT of Khorne.

This feat makes him equal to the Primarchs.

>>49202991
the bloodthrister is still s/t6 even if he's hitting on 4s and jain doesn't have an invul

>>49202978
>mind is a unique thing
Not really, just copy-paste the brain/body and you have yourself a blizzard

>>49202926

What part of eastern europe are you from

>>49203008
>Those are fucking ruskies
and?
>and IG sucks cock.
well so do slavs, and i meant literally your only export is whores.

>>49203019
>jain doesn't have an invul
Oh shit. Thought all Phoenix Lords had a 2+/3++

So nvm, she gets wrecked.

>>49203025
Wat.

>>49202980
This. fucking hell i play IW and even i only have 1 unit of Oblits, no Mutiltors and only 2 Warpsmiths

It is nice that both units are minimum 1 though
So Take 2 warpsmiths, 2 full Oblit squads and then just one shitty suicide Mutilator to meet the requirements.

You still have to pay for Warpsmihs who are 110 pts each and basically just standing around doing nothing though. Too expensive, i won't bother with this formation i don't think

>>49202996
No, the lack of South Americans is pretty okay with me. Guatemala isn't that interesting, space or no.

I just want to play a IW list
Why can't GW just make something like 3.5ed for CSM?

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>>49202966
As the other anon said, no. The restrictions on which weapons you can use are too much.
>>49202980
And that's not even the most ridiculous formation in the book.

>>49202999
Why not just shoot it with 5 lascannons?

>>49203062
At least you can replace that with Kytans.

If Emperor is Anatolian why his kids are a different race? Is he a cuck? He has a ton of whites, a nigger and a zipperhead.

>>49203000
Kill team is a lazy piece of shit that GW fished out of their toilet bowl and threw at us because they realize there a demand but they're too incompetent and/or lazy to actually put the work in. It makes no sense as an introductory game for the same reasons you listed. It makes no sense as a game for more veteran players, because the rules are too minimalist and shitty.

That a superior and free alternative ruleset is already available is just the icing on the cake.

>>49203054
Traitor's Hate could have been fucking awesome. Give us a couple formations for Chaos Warband, armored elements, daemon elements, and then just give us half a dozen detachments that do different things with those basic formations.

>>49203088
>If Emperor is Anatolian why his kids are a different race? Is he a cuck?
yes

Anyone remember the name of the Thousand Son who studied under the IW? He commended there fighting style if that helps spark a memory

>>49203070
>at least you can replace 2/3 of the model with super expensive FW legs or undertake a major kitbashing project

>>49203036
nope, they all have 2+ and eternal warrior though. fuegan has feel no pain, asurmen has 2+/4++(3++ in challenges), and the forgeworld guy has something

jain loses within 2 rounds. she's not that good. anything tougher then t5 is gonna give her trouble. so that's pretty much all the cqc characters of worth.

>>49203042
>basically just standing around doing nothing though
They could try and fix vehicles and such, though that really doesn't much

>>49203112
>Traitor's Hate could have been fucking awesome
If the writer gave a fuck sure.

Feels lie It's eithe r or with GW, either the management are uninspired and choke down on creativity or the writers are jobbers just punching in and waiting for the day to pass.

>>49203120
If you're set on using the formation, I mean. It's more expensive in real money, but you save like ~800-900 points?

>>49202410
Also, gargoyles have a poison 6+ attack

>>49203151
How? When did Krytans become substitute for Lord of Skulls?

>>49203120
Atleast Kytan looks so much better than Lord of Tracks.

Also what is chinaman?

Somebody post the quote from the Death-watch book that goes

>Do not ask 'Why hate the alien?', Instead Ask: 'Why not?'

I think it's my new favorite quote. what is /tg/'s?

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>>49203169
Yes.

>>49203184
"Roight in da jibblies!"

>>49203189
Well, I had no idea.

Very neat

>>49203189
>>49203239
You end up saving almost 1000 fucking points, too. Jesus H.

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BLUEEEERG3GH JAK TAM POLSKIE KURWY PATRZCIE?

EMPEROR SUCKS DICK KURWA

>bądź S*ace M*rine
>KE KE KE
>zostań wjebany przez robale xD

JA PIERDOLE POLACZKI

BLENDZIOR TY PIERDOLONY SKURWYSYNU


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZo9K45m6xg

>>49202608
>CSM player smiles and informs me his Terminators are immune to Lasguns.
wait what?
Terminators are just regular marines with 2+/5+ save. They are not immune, even if they had Mark of Nurgle. Also 30 wounds are lot of saves to roll against. They should be dead

Shame on the guy for telling you as such.

>>49203351
>What is context and sarcasm

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What's your opinion on the Beast Arise series, /tg/?

>>49203351
Your not very bright, are you?

>>49203389
Piece of shit like everything Warhammer.

>>49203389
I enjoyed it until the reasonable gentlemen Ork abassadors came, still waitign for the 6th and 7th audiobooks to get pirtated.

>>49203418
>Join us and be our cattle or die

You didn't read forward in the series and saw the fate of the humans who surrendered or got enslaved by the Orks?

>>49203407
What are you doing here even?

>>49203465
Calling you a bunch of fucking nerds.

>>49203389
Is it me or does that Ork doesn't look very Orky?

The skin color and face structure is all wrong.

>>49203454
I did, stil the "tut tut tut, don't be unreasonable chaps" kinda felt off.

>>49203465
Getting guaranteed (you)s

>>49203480
>Calling you a bunch of fucking nerds.
Get in line.

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>tfw my Iron Warriors are back for one final fight
>Tfw you challenge the local IF player to a game next week


RUIN WHAT WAS WROUGHT
BRING DOWN THE BASTIONS
CRUSH THE LACKEYS OF THE CARRION-KING
SLAUGHTER THE SONS OF DORN

DEATH TO THE FALSE EMPEROR

>>49203486
>Is it me or does that Ork doesn't look very Orky?
>
>The skin color and face structure is all wrong.

That's what happens when your art dept consists of the lowest bidders instead of people that play the game.

>>49203486
>Is it me or does that Ork doesn't look very Orky?
I was just thinking the same thing

>>49202992
landspeeder stormfront

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>>49203522
>>49203521
>>49203486
Yeah anatomy is odd.

What's the best Humanity Fuck You faction? Chaos?

>>49203594
Eldar.

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>>49203592
I don't see the problem.

>>49203611
because that there's another shitty DA trashpile ork.

>>49203619
How are they supposed to look like according to your neckbeard self?

Is the Tyranid Start Collecting Box worth it?

>>49203636
>is paying money for toy soldiers past the age of 11 worth it?

I don't know man.

>>49203636
In what terms?

What would you bring vs Orks? I have never faced them.

>>49203730
I would get a life.

>>49203730

Anything. You'll still win.

>>49203670
Funny. Never, ever heard that one before.

>>49203636
It's not really that great, Tyrants are always a very good choice but Gargoyles (despite the cool models and seemingly nice rules) are pretty trash, as well as Warriors being nearly useless (30 pts. for T4/4+ with ass weapons is bad, 3 wounds or not).

You'd be better served elsewhere, it doesn't give you anything for monster mash or swarm that's really useful.

Is it just me or is the blood angels database in BattleScribe missing a lot of information? New player trying to build a list and I think I'd be better working it out on paper

>>49203775
I don't know about BA, but the Tyranids codex in BattleScribe has some incorrect information. So its probably not just you.

So where do I start with 40K? I don't want to paly Marines, not the loyalist ones at least.

>>49203775
battlescribe has some hiccups, corbax is currently 0 points

>>49203730
i'd bring some of my weaker options to give him a fighting chance. i did that earlier this year, the chariots didn't do much but the keeper enjoyed casually slapping some ork boys around

>>49203823
>>49203775
This is why you learn your god damn codex first before making lists with battlescribe or some other 3rd party army list maker

>>49203854
Find a faction that you think looks cool, and that you would like to paint and buy some of its models to fit a CAD.

how dumb would it be to bring the zerker formation at 1500 points filling 3 land raiders with them and leaving a small unit behind as tax?

>>49203775
>>49203823
BS is a tool and a fandmade one at that., not a replacement for the base codexes.

>>49203854
Just to repeat the line, read the rulebook, the lorebook and then pick whatever seems interesting.

>>49203854
Depends. Three questions-

>Which army do you like best?
I'm assuming you don't have an answer, if you did then there's your answer.

>Which army's fluff/models do I like best?
Not everyone cares about this, but remember your guys spend a lot more time being painted/displayed then on the table. Don't pick something you don't enjoy.

>How do you want to play?
Assault, shooty, minbullet-y, lots of guys or few guys, pick something that fits what you want to do.

Ultimately you must decide, look at the codexes and determine what YOU like best. It's your free time and enjoyment, not fitting to have someone tell you what to do

On that note, mandatory recommendation from the Omnissiah to join the Adeptus Mechanicus! The Machine God's legions await you

>>49203894

Can't start the game inside an Allied Battle Brother's transport. :'^)

>>49203670
>Teasing strangers past the age of 5

Don't you have to be somewhere else pulling someones hair?

>>49203854
Buy the latest codex and army. Then you will win everything.

>>49203486
It has a nose.

The new World Eaters formation doesn't change the fact that you're still paying over 20 points per model for melee tactical marines

did they just remove the rules for the GRAIA PATTERN RAPIER LASER DESTROYER completely ?
been looking for them and all i find is broken links and discussions of how op it used to be

>>49203730
The same as every other army.
Don't be a tailoring turd.

>>49203062
I really like that formation, since it actually adresses the major problems the Lord of Skulls has.
Too few attacks? Here's Rampage. Shitty BS? Let me Twin-link that for you. Tarpits? Those now explode before you move.
Now if only the Lord of Skulls were not retardedly priced... I mean, 888pts? Sure it's nicely symbolic, but it's also fucking insane. 650 with all the upgrades and I'd maybe consider it, mostly on account of being one of the three people that actually like the model.

Lmao nigga why the fuck would I pay for minis if I can 3D print them?

>>49203973
except the new chaos

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new player here
r8 this

>>49204280
I ran a similar army in Dawn of War UA so I'm an expert - it's shit.

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>free VotLW
that's like 100 points

>free boons
that's like 50 points

Loyalists can get more than that taking free razorbacks depending on how many tacticool squads they bring, and razorbacks are always useful, unlike extra leadership, hatred or boons.

While this fixes the problem with VotLW and boons, it doesn't fix the problem with Chaos stuff just sucking in general compared to the best Loyalists have to offer.

t.Loyalist who wants other armies to be better balanced

>>49204280

I rate it khorne/8.

>>49204343
but will it win/8

>>49204321
it almost feels like they want us to stack chaos boons. free boon each turn to a chaos lord, pregame boon and if you kill a character that's another boon. so that's 6 boons to a guy on turn 1

>>49201495
Nope. Brotherhood is what gives them ML1. When it doesn't work, they're effectively ML0. And so can't do shit.

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Anyone else notice this bundle comes with an unforgettable price slash of ~$3?

>>49204541
maybe its because that hellbrute is monopose ?

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how do i play KDK

>>49204113
yeah its shit

>>49204617
Step 1 - Spill blood. (Remember Khorne does not care from where it flows
Step 2 - Repeat Step 1
Step 3 - Summon Bloodthirsters.

>>49204617
dogs and demons

take 0 CSM