/tg/ convince me to play a Scion only army list.
Don't, 40k might not be the worst game out there but it's certain going downhill.
They are the best looking human faction.
They have the awesome parts of the imperial guard (normal humans doing a tough job and prevailing through sheer guts and grit) while still being elite.
Optimised to kill marines, eldar and tau (i.e. the most common armies and the ones most in need of killing).
>>49169706
To bad they got shafted on their own lore bad
The miniatures are neat.
>>49169706
What's so bad about the lore exactly?
>>49169780
Nothing really but it could use some more "meat" each scion is basically "fights xenos/daemons real good" no real differentiation between them besides color schemes
>>49169780
Probably how they make them literally !marines as far as how they deal with different threats, like one group getting the attention of Nurgle because they are particularly resistant to disease or how another group fights along with the Smurfs and the smurfs give them a pat on the back and even a chance to become marines.
That and how edgy they make the Scholas out to be.
>>49169861
We could make the Deltic Lions actually being super cool something like each soldier is a sort of dormant abhuman strain or Isha herself has taken helping mortals even further and blessing human infants
>>49169900
>Ace of Spades
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcf7DnHi54g
>>49169900
That's pretty badass.
>>49169780
The regiments are there but they need
>Certain motifs possibly could copy modern day special forces
>Special named characters not alot of regular IG Regiments have these but some need them
>More Space Marine butt buddy relationships
>Scions who value human life and a bros with the Salamanders
>use more shady death watch type equipment
Can someone explain to me what tge diffrence is between these guys and regular stormtroopers trained by the scholea? I never read the army books and was on a slight 40k hiatus when they were introduced.
>>49169584
Go for it! The models are awesome! My only suggestion would be to get an Imp Knight as backup. Thats what I did, painted scions and knight the same and they fit together great!
>>49169861
>That and how edgy they make the Scholas out to be.
why would imperial special ops academies not be edgy
>>49170508
There is none, they just retconned scholas into grimpderp
>>49170817
>they just retconned scholas
they didn't retcon anything, they just described how scholas worked for the first time
>>49170508
As far as my understanding goes;
>Scions; schola trained, borderline fanatical, stoney faced, tacticool special forces (ex. Militarum Tempestus, Inquisitorial Stormtroopers).
>Stormtroopers; regimental veterans, highly motivated, cigar chompin, well equipped commandos (ex. Kasrkin, Krieg Grenadiers).
There's probably some overlap, but just play it by rule of cool IMO.
>>49171174
Each regiment has one basically though the problem is we barely now the few special ones
Kasrkin,Grenadiers, and Catachan Devils were the ones who were compared to Storm Troopers
>>49171174
>Stormtroopers; regimental veterans
Stormtroopers have been, from their inception, schola-trained orphan soldiers.
Grenadiers are the regimental veterans.
Scions are Stormtroopers with a silly gothic name, but otherwise completely unchanged.
>>49169584
Paint them up like the Wolf Brigade.
>>49169780
Makes commissars and Scions boring blank-slate characters that lack any personality and "follow orders word-by-word to the point of a fault" levels of Lawful Stupid.
>>49170679
Live fire exercises and strict punishment is fine but it shows it's tryhard nature when they emphasis how they made a wall by throwing in rebellious students into a cemement mixer.
Besides, these are the same schools you pull Adminstratum and Sisters from as well.
>>49170679
Edgy itself wouldn't be a problem; 40k is edgy as fuck.
The problem is that it's the boring kind of edgy, not the fun kind that 40k usually is (ie, Dark Eldar). The kind written by a 14-year-old that unironically thinks it's really cool, like making cadets killing other cadets under the orders of their superiors commonplace for the sake of proving loyalty.
>>49171519
>not the fun kind that 40k usually is (ie, Dark Eldar)
The new scholas are pretty much 40k straight from its earliest source. Back when mind-wiping turned people into drooling retards instead of just conveniently erasing memories.
>like making cadets killing other cadets under the orders of their superiors commonplace for the sake of proving loyalty
That's a thing real armies under brutal dictatorships have done. The imperium acting despotic to the point of it being comical is something the setting's kind of built on.
>>49171508
>Besides, these are the same schools you pull Adminstratum and Sisters from as well.
the nightmare bureaucracy and insane religious zealots?
scholas are also combed for potential assassin and inquisitorial recruits, which are equally horrible institutions
>>49169900
You could make a strike force of Ordo Sepulturum, with the Deltic Lions as the sort of chamber militant for an inquisitor who searches for ways to cure certain diseases. He calls the Lions in whenever he needs to quarantine a Plague Zombie outbreak. Maybe they go hunting Obliterators so they can examine the Obliterator Virus.
>>49171774
That and change their color scheme to Red+medical white
>>49171647
And it's super boring. Every page of the lore outside of the reigment descriptions talk about how grimderp the Scholas are to the point of sheer wasteful stupidity, with very little irony to it. It just comes off as extremely generic bare-bones schlock.
Nevermind that the Scions themselves are fluffed as basically being Space Marines without the genetic enhancements, which keeps them from standing out. Would've been better to emphasize them as being more like the Imperium's Navy SEALS or some other semi-independent spec-ops force, instead of lesser Space Marines.
>>49171865
>>49170063
>Imperium Spetnaz
>Imperium SEALS
>Imperium SAS
>Imperium GHURKAS
>>49172168
>Spetnaz Scion diving through the windshield of Ork Wartrukk
Fund it!
>>49172666
>63 of the 3 heretics confirmed dead
>>49172666
Trips demand it to be so.
>>49169843
Since they're raised by the Imperium itself it's kind of hard to give them traits besides being really good at killing X, at doing Y, or who they may have alliances with. If I recall correctly they don't have a common culture and if they do that gets wiped away.
Could also be a function of them technically not supposed to be an army unto themselves but just allies.
>>49169861
>like one group getting the attention of Nurgle because they are particularly resistant to disease
I don't see how something like this makes them Marines since you could apply the same kind of logic to other factions within armies.
>>49175766
not but them seem to be REALLY immune to what ever shit comes at them
>>49175814
That's still not Marines, when a Chapter has a trait they usually explain or give an inkling as to where it comes from such as geneseed, recruitment world, Chapter culture/battle doctrine, etc.
It's sort of interesting and like I said above comes off as inspiration or a hook for why you may choose to base your Scions on that particular regiment. Maybe you want an anti-Nurgle army or just play a lot of Nurgle aligned CSM or daemons. A lot of the entries come off like that.
>>49176019
Thats why said this >>49169900
Scions got shafted hard
>>49171326
Mostly this, except that when they changed Stormtroopers into a more copyright-able name, they also gave them the pseudo-Baroque-styled armor as a universal retcon.
See, before, Scions were these hardcore spec-ops motherfuckers who could find themselves working with Guard, or for the Inquisition as elite goons, depending on what was needed at the time. And their kit was varied enough that they could get that job done.
I personally just interpret the new pseudo-Baroque armor as a new issue of kit that can be chosen. I still love the old look for Scions, so tend to use that. My Scion list actually uses older models and even one or two Grenadier squads from other AM lists for a little bit of visual variety.
Unfortunately they are pretty mono-pose, esp the heavy weapons guys. But if that doesn't you, then go for it. I wanted to do them, but didn't like that literally every squad would be in the same position, Not a good thing in an army that might only have 25-30 dudes in it.
>>49180653
I run them in kill team and Heralds of Ruin, which has good traction at my local store. The smaller model counts combined with my own need to add bits and fenangle with models to make them all unique makes it a bit less monopose.
But yeah, if you don't have the patience to cut them up and green-stuff them, they're really frustratingly same-y.
>>49171647
I like how you think it's anything other then GW changing Stormtroopers to something easier to slap a trademark on.
Like the "aelfs" and "duradin" in Age of Sigmar; change the fluff so you can change the name and add a TM to the end of it.
It's transparent as everloving fuck.
>>49172168
>space ghurkas head taking Khorne warriors
>>49180724
the old stormtroopers were generic af and were not different enough from regular troops
I actually like the scion designs, but wish they had a lot more wargear options to make them the special forces superheroes they were always meant to be.
>>49180893
I don't mind the equipment change but all the fluff stuff we now know is the usual shit from GW.
>"Look at how badass and totally radical this new group/unit is! Aren't they cool with their cool models and cool new fluff that shows off how cool they are? Buy them and their newly trademarkable name!"
I've been in stables with less horseshit on the floor then falls out of GW's mouth.
>>49180949
the equipment isn't really different aside from the style
they always had carapace armor and hellguns (now called hot shot lasguns and are AP3 rather than AP5, but otherwise the same)
>>49169780
>>49169843
>>49169861
>>49169900
I fucking swear to god I saw this exact chain of replies in at least three previous tempestus related threads in this exact fucking order, including the image.
It might have been four even, they all went the same. i can't be dreaming
this is real
is it still possible to have !not scions, who have the same equipment and stats, but go by the original kasrkin lore, of being recruited from the top members of the PDF or guard, and being given US rangers style training, instead of being raised in the schole?
>>49181500
Then you're just playing grenadiers without access to taurox and HSVG's.
>>49181538
i mean the only difference is in lore
are the special forces style stormtroops gone?
>>49181574
If you asked a member of GW? Yes, kind of, these new guys are supposed to be those same dudes. So if they aren't special forces enough for you, then yes.
But that's the thing. It's 40k, and it was a retarded decision. Don't follow it. Make your army the way you want, from a modeling perspective. Do your fluff like you want, mang. Every "my dudes," army comes off as a bit sue-ish anyway, so go hog wild.
>>49181574
No they're just done in regiment instead of by the schola.
>>49181594
Kaskrin's still exist in lore, dont listen to GW.
>>49181602
Kasrkin are grenadiers though, not what this guy asked about. He asked about the scions special-forces stormtroopers.
Kasrkin are an offshoot stormtrooper that are specifically the best of Cadia, not the Schola.
>>49181611
Kasrkin are special forces they're just cadia trained instead of schola trained. He didnt specify that he wanted his not scions to be from a schola.
As long as Kasrkin exist he can have any special forces he wants, they just wont be from the scholas.
>>49169602
40k is actually coming back full stride at my lgs. Warmashit and Infinity players who quit 40k are furious and salty as fuck desu.
>>49181014ever seen groundhog day?
>>49181645
Regimental storm troopers still exist
>>49180707
Mind if I ask how you run your kill team scion list?
I got a regular squad and a command squad on display and kill team seems perfect for me to finally use scions
>>49183132
Maybe add in a Taurox? Doesnt some bundle come with a commissar too?
>>49169584
They look cool
Hella cool
Who needs flashy special forces when you have artillery and human wave tactics? Play Death Korps, they look way cooler anyway
>>49183132
Going by the IG codex
Militarum Tempestus command squad
+ 4 Hot shot volley guns
total:125
Tempestus Scions
+ GL
Total:75
So thats 200 total and that is apparently all you need
scions wont get updated they will get murged into main guard codex.
>>49185180
scions are literally the equivalent of forge world grenaders or old gw stormtroopers . GW is doing smaller stand alone codex but scions was from a time when they actually intended this to be a new army and people would just stop using guardsmen.. yes.. I know how crazy this sounds. they literally wanted every guard player to quit guard and play scions. but they didn't sell in the first month so they relased the backup astra mil codex
>>49169602
This plus they're fucking stormtroopers. If you absolutely have to play 40k, then at least fucking play 40k.
>>49170508
>>49170817
>>49171174
>>49171326
No no no no.
Stormtroopers are and always have been trained in Schola. The renaming to Scions is purely a legal move towards something they think they can trademark. "Stormtroopers" was believed to be too generic. Stormtroopers = Scions the same way Astartes = Space Marines and Ad Astrum Milishwazzit = Imperial Guard.
The iconography and new baroque style is similarly designed to be distinctive enough that companies like Chapter House can't create compatible third party miniatures without being sued into oblivion. Whether that's actually true or not is debatable; courts have repeatedly ruled that you can't copyright a look and feel.
>>49170863
>>49180644
>>49181645
>>49181611
These guys have it right. Stormtroopers are elite military units raised to do special operations. They work directly for the Administratum rather than through the Imperial Guard's general staff bureaucracy, though they're frequently seconded to their command.
Meanwhile, many planets have special forces of their own that end up included in their Imperial Guard tithes. The most famous are the Kasrkin from Cadia. These are less politically reliable (at least to the Administratum) but tactically identical.
The analogy here is Spetznaz and the old USSR. A blanket term for special purpose elite troops, but they could have been GRU, KGB, or other. In the Soviet Army, each level of organization above Division included some spetznaz units as part of their TO&E, answerable to the formation's second officer (intelligence). Plus several brigades of spetznaz that are part of the General Staff's intelligence directorate. Plus the soviet satellites had their own equivalent special forces that were functionally Spetznaz but not called that.
Here's your grimdark cite: http://militera.lib.ru/research/suvorov6/index.html
>>49185169
or if you wanna play with random people by GWs rules you can do this
5 Scions
2 with hotshot lasguns
Tempestor has a CCW and bolt pistol
1 scion with a hotshot volley gun
1 Scion with a plasma gun
1 Taurous Prime missile launcher and twin linked storm bolter+auto cannon
I have personally seen this list and I also think GW has made this a sort of official bundle
I'm tempted to do this, if only to make a Kasrkin strike team. Maybe I should hit eBay and go for a Kill Team.