Warcraft Lore and RPG Discussion

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>>49162579
nice oxymoron OP

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PROTECT ME, VOL'JIN

>>49162619
I don't know why this makes me laugh so much. Garrosh's face though has to be the best part though.

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>>49162619
Needs more Garrosh

How difficult would it be to get an audience with the various racial leaders?

I feel like getting a chance to talk to high tinker Mekkatorque is probably much easier than getting to talk to Magni Bronzebeard (before he was crystallized), but surely each race would have their own set of hoops to jump through to get a chance to talk to their leader

>>49162921
you just gotta walk into the throne room and click on them anon. Totally not hard.

>>49162921
I'd imagine Mekkatorque has a queue ticket system in place, so you're probably going to be waiting in a line for a while.

>>49162921
Sylvanas is unapproachable unless you're Forsaken or she comes to you.
Baine can freely be met in his hut.
Lor'thermar requires an official audience, if only because the guards insist on it.
Vol'jin, when he was alive, could unofficially be met whenever, but usually you have to pass your message to a couple trolls before they give you a time to meet.

So the nathrezim/dreadlords are the masters of scheming and plotting and getting people to do whatever they want.

The sign of a perfectly planned scheme usually doesn't involve getting caught. Has anyone considered that certain events happened the way they did due to their influence, and they never were outed?

It would certainly explain why the army of light was marching on the black temple just as the Illidari gain a keystone that would give them access to Argus. But everything goes according to the plan and Illidan's soul delivered right to KJ, and the demon hunters who threaten them all get locked up.

>>49163372
As the saying goes, it's only lying/cheating if you get caught. In a perfect world, a nathrezim only reveals themselves as a final power play against their enemy.

>>49162936
Well, that's because most PCs are King Badass of Eat My Shit Mountain, so they can come and go whenever and wherever they want.

>>49163372
I'm pretty sure that there were more than the 3 from the WC3 campaign and Mal'Gannis working in Lordaeron.

Maybe one operating in Stranbad with the hand of Argus or whatever was there prior to Cataclysm. Maybe in Stromgard too. Still its easy to look at things and see a Dreadlord when there isn't.

>>49162921
I know Malfurion isn't technically the leader, but he holds such considerable influence over the night elves he basically is one. Regardless, he would be absolutely impossible to get an audience with, due to napping in the barrow downs, or he would be off traveling in some remote forest.

A random druid exploring the emerald dream has a better chance of getting to see Malfurion than any diplomatic delegation.

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>>49163422
>WHERE IS STORMRAGE?! I MUST HAVE A WORD WITH THAT PURPLE BEANSTALK!
>SHHHHHH! Please, your excellence, keep your voice down. Master Stormrage will be unable to see you, in any case?
>AND BLOODY WHY NOT?
>He's having a nap. Night elves, druids especially, are very particular about their, ehm, sleep. It's an Emerald Dream thing; you understand.

>>49163372
On the one hand, this seems like an ass pull to justify "Illidan dindu nothing."

On the other, it would mean the dreadlords actually accomplished something other than fucking with the Scarlet Crusade since WC3.

So I'm torn.

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>>49163464
To be fair, when have you ever seen a succubus work as an intelligence agent, like the Exodar database claims it is?

>>49163484
Too busy gathering cum instead of intel

>>49163370
>Mekkatorque
Explain the purpose of your meeting to a secretary, fill out the form they give you, take a queue ticket and wait your turn. Alternatively, explain the purpose of your meeting to one of the other gnomish councillors and they may be able to fast-track you through the queue. But while faster, this is much less reliable

>Magni/Council of Three Hammers
Fill out the pre-requisite forms (which may take several hours, there are a lot of forms involved) and present a gift "worthy of a mountain king". The gift need not actually be highly valuable, but the act of giving a gift to the king shows that you respect the authority of Ironforge

>Anduin/Varian
Arrive at Stormwind keep, explain the purpose to the guard, then to the official the guard summons, then to the lord the official summons, then wait for the king to see you. This wait may take several days and no one is going to tell you how long you have to wait. If you are not waiting in the right place when the king can see you, you lose the right to speak to the king and must start again from the guard.

>Tyrande Wisperwind
She wanders Darnassus at night, just walk up and talk to her if you see her. She is always surrounded by guards though, and one false move may result in you getting an arrow in the back.

>Prophet Velen
If he wants to speak with you, he will meet you as soon as you enter the Exodar, if not, you will never be able to find him and should give up sooner rather than later.

>Genn Greymane
In Gilneas, you would have to spend several months desperately trying to navigate the impenetrable mess of Gilnean bureaucracy. After Cataclysm it's gotten much easier, simply shout down his guard and start talking to him. His guards are worgen though, so you'll have to be pretty good at shouting

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>>49163463
After the Stonetalon mountains quest chain i always imagined Garrosh being cool with the Druids.

Like if he had a chance to go completely wreck a Nelf settlement he would gladly kill all the huntresses, but if he saw any sleeping druids he would just tuck them better under their blankets.

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>>49163484
As I see it, there's no way warlock demons don't report to their true bosses what they saw while "serving" on Azeroth when they return to Twisting Nether when desummoned. And... voidwalkers aren't afflicted with Legion, felhunters are too stupid, infernals are mindless burning rocks, imps are too crazy to be useful, dreadguards can be only summoned for a short time for one battle, and felguards are too focused on being warriors... who's left to serve as Legion spies? That's right, pic related

>>49163484
I like to think of Warcraft succubi as a failed experiment by the Legion that got a bit out of hand

They were engineered to be intelligent agents, with mind control capabilities and invisibility, but they were made to be "attracted to power" to prevent them from using their mind control on demons that outrank them, and this made them easily manipulated by mortal warlocks

So now, like so many other demonic races, they're just burning legion cannon fodder

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>>49163692
>She wanders Darnassus at night, just walk up and talk to her if you see her. She is always surrounded by guards though, and one false move may result in you getting an arrow in the back.
I think you mean
>She wanders Darnassus at night, enjoying the local fauna and/or possibly flora

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>>49163732
>enjoying the local fauna and/or possibly flora
>possibly flora

>>49163724
Last I checked, warlock-dominated demons are fully under the warlock's control and don't answer to the Legion. In fact, if the wiki is to be believed, a dominated succubus in particular will fall madly in love with their new master and will serve him/her ceaselessly; they may even have a bit of a jealous streak if they see their master chatting up some other bitch.

As for Legion succubi, I imagine they follow the tactics of any other agent and go under deep cover to gather their intel. Plus, I could imagine a warlock sending their own succubus into similar situations to gather data.
That Scarlet Crusade armorer chick you saw that other crusader fucking atop a barrel when they thought no one was looking? Succubus.
That street walker you see chatting up the guards in Stormwind? Succubus.
That cute Kirin Tor mage wearing what she calls a "mage's combat harness" under her robe when it's basically a fancy slingshot bikini? Succubus.

>>49163464
I think the Illidan dindu nuffin thing is a bit overblown. He did pull a lot of decidedly evil shit, like taking advantage of every downtrodden group that would follow him, binding Akama's soul to guarantee the loyalty of the broken, creating more fel orcs, enslaving the nether drakes, etc.

The ultimate crux of it though is that he did it to try to fight the Legion, with his "by any means necessary" approach.

It's pretty consistent with his character, he was completely ready and willing to break the entire continent of Northrend in half to stop Arthas.

>>49163837
>warlock-dominated demons are fully under the warlock's control
TRIFFLING GNOME

>>49163732
[Spoiler]Welp, time to go fap to more wow porn

>>49163845
The problem is that the Illidan book exonerates him of literally everything, and even gives him credit for a couple things that aren't expressed in the games.

>>49163854
Oh shit, I haven't read the book, does it really ruin his character that badly?

>>49163846
At least, where the PCs are concerned. They're smart enough not to summon someone like Jaraxxus and expect to not get pasted. PC warlocks are much more capable than your average warlock.

>>49162921
Considering Mekkatorque doesn't really have a throneroom, and is just kind of hanging around in Tinkertown, I don't think he would be too hard to meet.

>>49163854
It doesn't really. The book notes all the awful shit Illidan did, but then Illidan and his coterie of Demon Hunters say "it's worth it to destroy the Legion", literally nobody else says that and they just see what the players saw, Illidan defiling Karabor, making dumb decisions and enslaving Demons.

>>49163846
Because Big J wasn't dominated, he was summoned. See, back in vanilla warlocks had the ability to summon infernals and doomguards as super strong mobs worthy of being the big boss of a raid trash pack. You had to separately enslave them, otherwise you just dropped a mindless killing machine on top of a bunch of unsuspecting civilians without any control over them. Assumption right now is that PC wlocks are powerful and smart enough to enslave the demons without much of a problem and now with legion they've proven themselves strong enough to seize the power of a pit lord to control an entire army of demons.

>>49163861
I'll give you one example. At the beginning of TBC, the Alliance and Horde are surging into Outland and crashing into the Legion lines at the foot of the Dark Portal. As it turns out, the Legion were about to flank the joint forces at the Stair of Destiny, ending Azeroth's invasion of Outland before it even starts.

Illidan single-handedly stops the flank attempt and repels the Legion's would-be offensive. The Alliance and Horde never learn of this ever happening. The PCs would never have made it to Outland if it weren't for Illidan.

>>49163893
All without succumbing to the base lust for power that consumes all lesser warlocks, which makes them weaker and more prone to influence. PC warlocks are commendable for their self-control, and that is what makes them terrifying.

>>49163900
What's wrong with it though? Illidan and the Legion are enemies, of course he'd attack them. Plus he had no beef with the alliance/horde, so letting them come to Outland just makes it harder for the Legion. It's only later thanks to Kael'Thas' machinations that the Illidari and Horde/Alliance become enemies.

>>49163917
Also the PC warlocks are willing to work with anybody who is against their foes, whether lore wise it was for the sake of gaining more power safely or because they want to protect their home, while every other warlock organization is full of backstabbing. Hell, in Legion the meat-shield followers you get, Acolytes of the Black Harvest, are implied to kill each other during the mission for the sake of power rather than being KIA by the enemies.

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>>49163957
>Warlock mortal minions actively sabotage each other in the dash for power
Fuckin' idiots. No other class has to deal with this bullshit.

>>49163837
That stuff with succubi being in love with their summoners was from the RPG, IIRC, not canon anymore.

Fucking Blizzard and their retcons, nobody know's what's supposed to be proper lore.

>>49164101
Chronicles and the game is now the canon.

>>49164101
Nothing's saying they CAN'T be madly in love, mostly because it never really comes up in game.

>>49163861
Anyone saying the book makes Illidan a dindu hasn't really read it. If anything it makes him more of an asshole. The Maiev situation is the clearest sign of this.

>Illidan's Imprisonment:
>Good bit of room to pace and think
>Has a bed
>wards to keep him from getting hungry or thirsty, or even getting injured
>Maybe even a table
>Probably still got to eat and was surrounded by 'curious' Watchers
>Was never even tortured, just kept there

>Maiev's Imprisonment
>Chained to a wall, almost naked
>Dreadlord constantly going highly in depth of how he'll torture her when Illidan gives the word
>Food and drink literally pissed in before given to her
>Wouldn't be able to move to furniture if it was there
>Illidan constantly telling himself that he has to get to torturing her at some point.
>'She doesn't have 10,000 years to live so I have to fit in as much torture as possible'

Illidan's a fucking insane asshole. It's no wonder Maiev went crazy after she got back and saw people ALMOST EXACTLY LIKE HIM being let back into Darnassus.

so what are the best new demons in Legion?
the new Mo'arg, inquisitors, jailers, or Kerrigan: fel corrupted edition?

>>49164255
Mo'arg, definitely.

>>49164255
Jailers. Like demon Chinese people with the beards

>>49164255
>Mo'arg
Real neat.

>Inquisitors
Their voices are cool.

>Jailers
I don't care much for them, but they're not a bad addition.

>Spiders
The only one I've seen was the one in the DH starting area. They sound interesting though.

>>49164349
There are a bunch in Azuna with the demon hunters

>>49164363
There's one in violet hold too.

>>49164234
Nice lying about illidans imprisonment.
The book opens saying Illidan spent 10k years alone, no food, no conversations, no furniture, no water and all damage he does to himself is healed so that he cant commit suicide. And from the sounds of the anti-magic shackles, he couldn't see either.

>>49164983
He's just a pro maiev shill.

>>49164234
>Crazy dumb bitch tries to murder Illidan, gets everyone she knows killed on a wild goose chase lusting after that dindu cock, sabotages his attempts to save us from WotLK and intentionally tries to leave Tyrande, her rightful liege, to die.
cool man
>Illidan does nothing wrong and gets thrown into gay baby jail for all eternity because Malfurion is a cunt
douchebag fag

>>49165185
You

I blame you for how stupid Blizzard got about Illidan in Legion

It's your fault that they decided he was an angel sent from heaven who could do no wrong

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>>49165268
>Not accepting our lord and saviour Illidan who sacrificed himself for our sins

>Not praying every morning thanking our lord and saviour Illidan for making the sun rise

>Not thanking our lord and saviour Illidan before each meal for the food He provides

>Using our lord and saviour Illidan's name in vain

>Not being glad Maiev was imprisoned in h̶e̶l̶l̶ Black Temple by our lord and saviour Illidan

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>>49165396
>lord and savior
>Illidan
>not The Light

>>49165396
>Not actively looking for ways to rescue our lord and savior Illidan in game

>Not abandoning everything to join the Demon Hunters as followers of our lord and savior

>Not sacrificing everything
>Inb4 DKs' """""""sacrifice""""""""", they still have eyes don't they?

>>49165649
DKs never sacrificed anything, they were resurrected after dying in a battle they chose to fight. All they sacrificed was an afterlife, Demon Hunters sacrificed that and however long they had to live before joining the Interstellar Biker gang in the sky.

>>49165396
thats not arthas.

>>49165581
>Buff up my C'thun
>He whispers "well met"

>>49165729
And also "That was a mistake."

C'Thun confirmed Paladin?

>>49165268
Whenever our Lord and Master Illidan (pbuh) does anything slightly endsjustifythemeansy, the Hypocritical Morality Brigade rolls in to lock him away again.
He's going to eat a second Skull of Gul'dan and turn into a double-demon and everyone is going to act like he betrayed the Light and we'll have to kill him as a raid boss again, before it's revealed posthumously that he did nothing wrong.
Again.
And it's all ~-~your fault-~-.

You're the reason characters can only be held accountable for their actions in a binary state. Dindu or Raid Boss.

>>49165674
DKs had a minor sacrifice thrust upon them

DHs chose to make a major sacrifice for the greater good

Honestly I think it's pretty equal, a small sacrifice you were forced to make vs a large sacrifice you chose to make

>>49165065
I don't blame him. Being fed 20 pounds of ass and pussy sounds very appealing.

>>49165798
What

Illidan is a tragic figure, he's made plenty of mistakes and made personal sacrifices for the greater good. But he's also shown distinct tendencies towards jealousy and greed

He is not a great untouchable hero, nor is he a pure evil bastard. He's an anti-hero, with all the teenage edge and shitty fanfics that come with it

>>49165818
That major sacrifice is pretty unselfish though, even if it was chosen. The point of being a DH is to fight the Legion so others don't have to. On the other hand I wouldn't describe being an undead abomination as "small". There's no need for a comparison really.

>>49165674
>>49165649
>>49165818
>DHs do major sacrifices
>blood elf junkies that want to OD on fel to gain more power
>sacrificing

So now that the number of uncorrupted Black Dragons has literally increased 200%, do you think they'll start popping up more from now on?

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>>49165947
>cataclysm hits us over and over about how the black dragons are all but doomed as wrath is the only one alive
>conveniently placed cache of black dragon eggs.

>>49165947
>tfw it was originally going to be him in the quest, but the devs thought he couldn't earn the Highmountain's trust that fast
>not having him kill/replace an already existing sage named Ebonhorn

I'm sad.

>>49166055
Sage Ebonhorn was more believable imo wrathion is just a little shit doing what he wants too

>>49163707
Considering how much more influential the elements are on Draenor as appose to their rather chaotic nature in azeroth Shaman and Druids are probably really important. Garrosh was probably taught growing up not to harm them if he didn't want the whole balance to be fucked up again like when Draeno split.

What's the purpose of choosing between Kayn and Altruis in the DH starting quests? As far as I can tell it doesn't really change all that much.

What if Blizz is using this as a poll of player opinions on Illidan to direct the story development?

>>49166333
>What's the purpose of choosing between Kayn and Altruis in the DH starting quests?

Changes the story.
If you choose Altruis then you recruit Akama.
If you choose Kayn then you rape Akama and recreate the Shade of Akama.

>>49166390
based kayn knows what's up

>>49163830
I know that game.
Dusty was cute.

>>49166002
>>49165947
>We'll never get to introduce Warthion to his big brother
>Wrathion won't get super deffensive about staying head of the black dragons, all two of them
>Ebonhorn will never laugh and say he just wants to pass the peace pipe with Tauren all day and Wration can stay the head
>They will never have begrudging weekend trips where Ebon tries to teach Wrath about other cultures and Wrath just wants to go home and eat people.

Genn acknowledged as supreme dictator of the alliance when?

Return to ancient hostilities when?

Alliance and Horde returning to vicious and bloodthirsty enemies when? People choosing to die before cooperating? Locking doors and setting buildings on fire?

Genn v Garrosh would be a good move for the lore.

Or an actually schism of the alliances shifting which groups are aligned with which. Blood elves to return to the alliance, night elves to be slave race, worgens to overtake human settlements, and gnomes banished to horde. Pandas genocided outright.

>>49166566
>Genn acknowledged as supreme dictator of the alliance when?
>Genn turning heel so he can be put down like the Alliance's Garrosh and no worgen will ever be mentioned ever again forever (except maybe Fiona)
Please just fuck off.

>>49166617
>only the horde is allowed to have big meanie no no's as leader

>but garrosh still wouldn't commit genocide

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>>49166566
>Genn acknowledged as supreme dictator of the alliance when?
Nah man, Genn works best when he can be on the front lines ripping and tearing with his elite band of Worgen.
The only time a faction leader is aloud to be near the front is when they die, except trall but he isn't aloud to be anything but perfect so he doesn't count.

>>49165947
Wait, so, the tauren in the comic is a black dragon?
Huh.
Daf..

>>49166566
you're not funny

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>>49165674
>>49165818
>>49165893
Death Knights made no conscious sacrifice. They were the sacrifice. They now walk the land of the living, bearing the curse of undeath, unable to find peace and thirsting for battle. They have sacrificed nothing, rather, they have everything taken from them.

Demon Hunters willingly chose it all - to follow Illidan, to bind a demon to their flesh and soul, to damn themselves to the same eventual fate as the demons they loathe or worse, become one of them should they fail, and knowing all this, all the dangers and struggles that await them each day, they still did it. That is a conscious sacrifice.

This is by no means saying that Death Knights have it easy. Arguably they share a similar fate as the Demon Hunters, as they are both unholy abominations that have no place on the mortal world, serving as living weapons to ward off a greater fate. Ironically, just as Illidan and Arthas realised they could be fighting each other to a standstill forever, so can their scions both in terms of fighting prowess and how much it sucks to bear their own damned fates.

Death Knights know much about sacrifice, for they were the ones slain on the altar in the name of the Lich King. Demon Hunters have sacrificed everything, so when they see the bullshit the people of Azeroth are always up to with the red vs blue, they are quite justified in asking what exactly have they given for the cause of destroying the Legion that can even remotely compare.

>>49166753
>whether you choose hell or not changes the end point. Being in hell.

At least edgy edgy illidans can sleep at night knowing they chose their fate. Death knights are forced to exist against their will.

>>49166753
>muh sacrifice
>most of them are blood elves who were looking for that extra kick because they wanted to play with fel magic.
>night elf niggers had to choose between dying in swamps or becoming illidan's servants
>knowing anything about sacrifice.

>>49166566
It is pretty clear that Genn is not going to even contest the leadership of the Alliance, both out of respect for Varian's will as well as knowing full well, that on some level Sylvanas and Nathanos are right, that he is on some level a beast that will stop at nothing to get his vengeance. So he does exactly that, giving the Gilneans the thing that many crave so much - bloody vengeance on their hated foe.

>>49166814
>anduin wants to setup forsaken internment camps
>he wants Greymane to oversee it
Yea, Anduin, the hippy faggot, would never make a request that would be unbelievably stupid or against the core of Gilnean mythos.

Somewhat related to the thread edition, do the Naaru know that literally all blood elf paladins are siphoning power off of a captured Naaru? Specifically, do the Sha'tar know?

Yes, I'm playing TBC. How did you guess?

>>49166859
Yes, they know. Muru got captured willingly as part of a convoluted plan to bring the Blood Elves back properly into the Light and reignite the Sunwell.

>>49166566
Nah man, that's stupid. The whole High King thing was bad enough, and you want to hand ALL power to one man? The Alliance is, well, an Alliance. Think member states and cooperation, not vassals and commands.

That's their strength.

>Genn vs Garrosh
Garrosh is dead. And not even the 'can come back' kind of dead.
>Blood Elves return to the Alliance
could be okay, but the Horde would lose substantial amounts of players
>Night Elves to be slave race
that's not something I see the Alliance wanting to do, let along being capable of
>Worgens to overtake human settlements
the Worgen are just cursed Humans. It doesn't even breed true.
>Gnomes banished to the Horde
but why though?
>Pandas genocided outright
but WHY though?

>>49166814
Gilneas WILL rise again.

>>49166704
I wouldn't mind having an Alliance raid, but Genn is literally the only relevant character representing his race, which has already been almost entirely ignored (two camps and a tree in the expansion they were introduced, nothing in Mists, nothing in WoD, Genn being a fuckup for most of Legion).

I think fascist Genn would be cool but I don't want worgen made more invisible than they already are.

>>49166753
So DHs and DKs are rivals like Illidan and Arthas (sorta) were? That's cool, I can see it.

That brings up an interesting question, since Legion has introduced so much class-focused content, is there any conflict between different classes in it?

Spoilers for Shaman questline:

So, given that Thrall has given up leadership of the Earthen Ring, dropped the Doomhammer in the fucking Maelstrom and admitted that ever since he fucked Garrosh the elements won't heed his call, are we finally rid of him?

Also, I am super pleased that Thrall actually got punished for breaking the rules of Mak'gora

>>49166883
We don't deserve the Naaru, do we?

>>49166566
>You will never get to be a worgen wearing scarlet crusade attire and purging non-worgens from azeroth

>>49166910
That's just what the Naaru want you to think. Don't fall for their lies, anon. They'll come back to their true masters in time.

>>49166910
No one is worthy, boy. But the Light loves us anyway.

>>49166887
>but why though?
Because fuck gnomes and pandas.

>alliance wouldn't enslave night elves
Literally the best sex slave race.

>garrosh is dead
I know, I was just implying I liked garrosh as a horde leader. He wasn't orc jesus. He actually did want to conquer azeroth instead of just be content with endless attrition of his people.

>blood elves would bleed horde of players
Yea, that's why horde gets gnomes. I'd have genocided gnomes too, but gotta keep the balance.

>>49166806
>sleep at night
If the demon within even allows that. Do remember that all those subjugated demons want is to get out of the flesh prison and do demon things and so do anything and everything in order to fuck the demon hunter over. A death knight is already at his terminus, there is no way his fate can get any worse, he's already dead.

>>49166810
Those who wanted an extra kick just went with Kael'thas - that was the path of the least resistance to get that sweet fel high. Why the fuck would they go through all the demon hunter training, the rituals with an 80% mortality rate and then risk their own souls for the rest of their lives when there were far simpler alternatives available. There's one thing about junkies - they seek the simplest way to get their next high, and when there's a guy who doesn't give a fuck about what you do, so long as you stand on your post, wear the tabard and follow him to open up a portal for KJ, why would you ever follow the other absolute madman who seems to be pitting demons against demons, demands high standards from his chosen disciples?

Also,
>night elves
>following the goddamn Betrayer for any other reason than smoldering hatred for demons
Do remember that the only night elves in Outland before the portal opened were either some stragglers that willingly followed Illidan through or Maiev's forces. Once again the path of least resistance is simple, and it in no way is following this guy who has been demonized for possibly all of their adult lives as the absolutely last guy to trust, who in turn of your service demands rigorous training, chaining a demon to your immortal soul and the whole nine yards.

The Illidari demon hunters are all one hundred percent willing members, who knew exactly what they were signing up for. Altruis is an outlier who pussied out and rather than finishing his job, decided to fuck around and kill his own kin, choosing feeling good about himself over fighting the Legion.

>>49166905
>So, given that Thrall has given up leadership of the Earthen Ring, dropped the Doomhammer in the fucking Maelstrom and admitted that ever since he fucked Garrosh the elements won't heed his call, are we finally rid of him?
No, if they wanted to get rid of him they would have killed him. When people were speculating that Thrall would be one of the heroes to die in Legion after the announcement, the devs immediately came out to say that he had merely "given up hope."

He'll be back to his old self by the time Legion wraps up.

>>49166940
Knaifu pls

>>49167002
>being hopelessly doomed to walk the material realm for eternity is fine. At least it can't get worse
Because there is literally nothing worse. They have absolutely no hope of ever improving their situation. If anything, Death Knights should be hell bent on preserving life so they aren't left with a desolace where nothing moves.

Although Desolace was one of my absolute favorite areas. The moon over the sand dunes. Very serene. Many an hour was spent drinking magic biscuits and frostbolting crocolisks.

>>49167002
What's the story with Altruis? BC was so long ago that I've forgotten his deal.

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Holy shit, the quality of these threads worsened steadily over the months.

I remember people discussing the lore in depth, but now this is less than half of the posting here.

What the fuck happened?!

>>49167072
>discussing a strictly vidya lore on tg
>expecting it to stay in depth
NIgga, please. This is an excuse to talk about wow on an otherwise wow free board. Give legion a month and we won't even have an interest in talking about vidya again.

>>49167072
Legion launched, fagit

>>49167058
At first he's sending you to kill demons in Nagrand, which is all fine and dandy. Then he gives you a story about the newly inducted blood elf demon hunter, how he and the blood elves he's training are just in it for their own sake and how Illidan is now a shadow of his former self, so here's some cash and some loot, go fuck their shit up and trust his word on it all.

When Kayn meets Altruis again, he is pretty damn justified at wanting to spill that traitor's guts out. Altruis started teamkilling the Illidari simply because he lost trust in Illidan's plan. There is honestly little reason to leave him alive, let alone let him rejoin the Illidari. With the amount of demon hunters simply going mad from the demon within clawing at their sanity, you really don't need a guy who has a history of hiring mercs to kill your guys because he dislikes their methods, their hair or whatever else.

>>49167035
Hope he doesn't expect his hammer back.

>>49167188
Don't worry, your character will happily relinquish the Doomhammer to its rightful owner and the superior shaman, Thrall.

>>49167178
Cheers. I imagine most players choose Kayn if Altruis is as shitty as that. He probably wasn't meant to come across as a dirtbag like that in BC I imagine, but that's the problem with trying to make sense of stuff from all the way back then till today. At least they didn't retcon or forget him.

>>49166902
Death knights raid/assault Light's Hope Chapel to try and raise Tirion.

>>49167279
eh, Kayn comes across as one of those DID NOTHING WRONG types.

>>49166902
>So DHs and DKs are rivals like Illidan and Arthas (sorta) were? That's cool, I can see it.
I cal also see them teaming up as "Team unholy abominations out to kick demon ass" and going off to space to fight more demons on the Legion starcruiser DHs have captured once the invasion on Azeroth is dealt with.

So with that established dynamic in mind, what should be the next hero class?

>>49166932
>worgens, upset by alduin's seeming love for the forsaken decide to restart the scarlet crusade
>scarlet monastery becomes the new gilnean home city after leaving darnassus
>worgen crusaders, immune to undeath, reinstate the practices of the scarlet crusade and purge any and all undead in the plaguelands no appeals accepted under any decree
>mal'ganis returns to attempt to usurp power again
>never gets far because everyone thinks his avatar 'smells wrong' and he can't be trusted
>Scarlet Gilneas builds a wall

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>>49162579
What did they mean by this

>>49167376
>implying Anduin is a child of Shadow

One or two off-spec abilities does not a servant of the Old Gods make.

>>49167072
Okay, but the shitposting should be put in check at least.

I like these threads. Please, don't fuck them up.
>>49167145
Go back to /wowg/.

>>49167409
>implying Illidan is a servant of the Old Gods

>>49167413
Meant to >>49167104 too.

>>49167325
>Acherus is tethered onto the back of the DH ship and dragged through space

>>49167433
I see no shitposting here.

Just because you have a different view of the lore from someone else doesn't mean they're shitposting.

>>49167279
I think it's more that he comes across very badly in the DH quest. In TBC he's mostly an ass retroactively, since at that point we were led to believe that Illidan had indeed gone nuts and decided to become the overlord of Outland for fun and profit. Then they retconned him into having been fighting the Legion all along and doing all the shit in TBC as part of his campaign to invade the Legion's worlds, making Altruis look like a dick who hires people to murder his former comrades because he doesn't agree with their methods.

In the DH starting quest they could've tried to justify his actions a bit better, but instead he mostly comes across as an ass who is all about "muh freedoms" and "I don't take orders from anybody", while Kayn has (at least to me) more reasonably ethos of doing your duty and everybody having to make sacrifices if we want to stop the Legion.

>>49167428
>Illidad not satisfied with being just a Demon Hunter, also becomes an Old God Hunter. "The power to destroy two cosmic evils in one body! Two birds with one stone!"

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So I just did the Naaru message in a bottle quest. I thought the internet was bullshitting me. I thought they had to be exaggerating or willfully misinterpreting the dialog.

Nope. Naaru straight up says Illidan is the chosen one destined to destroy the Burning Legion. Though it doesn't try to guilt trip me for killing him, despite how I've done BT to death, so that was an exaggeration by /tg/.

I'm not even sure if I'm angry or just massively disappointed. There was just so much stupid crammed into a single line, after the rest of Legion had been so good Okay, 90% or so good that it's just... holy fuck, did the same writing staff work on THAT little revelation that worked on the entire rest of the expansion? What the fuck happened?!

They're seriously turning him into Kerrigan 2.0. I thought the devs could have a little more nuance to their writing than /tg/'s "raid boss or dindu" shit, but no, apparently not. It's a NAARU declaring that Illidan is integral to saving the universe, and not even remotely commenting on the shit Illidan have fucked up in his life. What was the wind chime smoking? It had to be some powerful shit.

>>49167543
>implying it's not a Void Naaru disguised as a regular old Light Naaru
>implying this isn't a trick by the Void Lords

>>49167543
see
>>49167376

>>49167543
>implying you have to be good to do good

>>49167413
>Go back to /wowg/.
I don't go there to begin with

>>49167466
>I see no shitposting here
There was some gay shit, another day.

>Just because you have a different view of the lore from someone else doesn't mean they're shitposting
It has nothing to do with lore view, m8.

What I'm pointing at is the endless, and pointless, character X/faction Y sperging that plagues these threads. This is shitposting, and I know we had it since the beginning, but things got out of control, apparently.

>>49167633
>character x/faction y
>thread about the lore
What do you want us to discuss? The height of grass in warcraft or something? Discussing lore means discussing peoples and places. The hell?

>>49167787
I think he means the Alliance and Horde fanboys that do nothing but bitch about the other faction, instead of generating discussion.

The shitheads we all learn to ignore eventually.

>>49166992
>trade an established, advancing race (that's vastly popular to players) that owns land

>for a bunch of refugees that barely anyone play

Yup, sounds like blizzard balance alright

>>49166705
>aloud
You sound like a fucking idiot when you use the wrong word.
Twice.

>>49167322
See, Kayn very well may also be one of those, who have had the same doubts that Altruis had. Maybe Illidan was crazy. Maybe his motives were clouded. Maybe there was no plan. But then, by admitting that, he admits that there was no real plan, there was no real reason why he had turned himself into an unholy abomination and there was nothing really from stopping the demon within to take over in such a moment of lacking faith. So rather than risk it, rather than become nothing more than a puppet in the Legion's hand, he'll make a leap of faith and unquestionably trust Illidan. What choice is there, really? What alternative is there for him? Better to see it all through to the bitter end than stop halfway and try to live with what you've become. It's easier on the mind, and it also keeps the demon chained, keeps its velvet lies out of the head.

When you are fighting an infinite Legion of monsters and carry one of them within you that waits for nothing more than a brief moment of clouded judgment to devour your soul, you really can't afford to slow down and question your orders. You do what needs to be done, take responsibility for the hard choices you have to make and perhaps you'll deal with the consequences when it's all over, assuming you'll even survive to see the nightmare to end.

TL;DR: The thought that what Illidan has done was justified is quite possibly the only thing that keeps most demon hunters sane. Who cares if it's true or not. Mortals are known to willingly delude themselves on far stranger things to be true.

>>49167935
Which ones are the refugees? I thought night elf hunter was the most popular race+class make up across almost all servers. I know it used to be around TBC.

And gnomes are only popular among pedophiles and wannabe pvpers cuz 'muh hitbox'.

>>49167370
>get mana bombed because puppy Garithos is too close to Quel'thalas

>>49165947

Wrathion and Ebonhorn will probably stay the only two uncorrupted pure black dragons, unless they find a way to make more.

However, if they don't take the opportunity in Legion, with Illidan around and all the TBC callbacks and the need to actually go to the nether to permanently take down demons, to bring back the nether dragons in some way shape or form, then I am going to be right pissed.

>>49167986
You said trade blood elves for gnomes

>obviously gnomes are refugees that barely anyone plays

>meanwhile blood elves are one of the most popular race and lorewise are recovering Scourge invasion, and imo the only elven subspecies with a future in greatness

>>49167986
Belves are the most popular Horde race (and the Horde is the less populated faction already) and the second most popular race in WoW after humans. Gnomes are the second least numerous Alliance race after pandas (and third second least numerous overall after goblins).

While belves haven't got their area updated since TBC, they have 2 zones + some stuff across newer expansions. All gnomes have is a level 1-5 starter zone that's part of Dun Morogh and one room in Ironforge

Also, all player characters have the same hitbox in WoW, model size is irrelevant

>>49168219
>blood elves will be great
>half of them kicked out of dalaran

>night elves are still militarily strong
>got their highborne mages that have been practicing magic for 10k years

>>49168219
>belves
Oh. My bad. For whatever reason I associated Night elves instead. Nevermind.

>>49168045
>implying the scarlet crusade would tolerate garithos even if his corpse weren't being carried by half a dozen random ghoul bellies
Scarlet Crusade is merely anti-forsaken. Belves may not be welcome in Scarlet Gilneas for consorting with the undead, but that would seem to be a sins of their fathers situation. Belves have never been happy among the horde and Garithos was the reason they defected anyway. It'd be a murky political web.

Is worgen curse still going on? Are more worgen being created? Is a child of two cursed Gilneans also a worgen? What about a worgen and a human? Do you inherit the course?

>>49168249
>>49168269
>>49168229
>>49168219
>belves can't be accepted anywhere they go
God damn is it a hard life being a blood elf, aka, TRUE Elf.

>>49168275
I can't remember if the Gilnean worgens are afflicted with the same curse as the children of that guy. The worgens that predated the gilneans. Forget their name. I want to say worgens are actually just a subset of gilneans and not all gilneans are worgens.

God damn there's so many different types of Elves. Legion introduces three(!) new species of Elves alone. There's probably hundreds of new kinds of Elves just waiting to be discovered. Snow elves, cloud elves, deep sea elves, cotton candy elves!

>>49168249
>Dalaran means anything at all to blood elves

Reminder that everything the Kirin Tor know were taught by elves, the city wouldn't even exist without the elves' help

>Night elves are still strong

True but they haven't done anything that advanced their power since breaking isolation in the Third War, and it doesn't look like they're trying to get into a better position. They literally just wait in their forest until something bad happens, try to mitigate the damage, then sit in their forest waiting for the next doomsday event. Not to mention they're rapidly losing the Emerald Dream as well.

>>49168388
For whatever reason, all fantasy settings like to create a dozen elf variations, maybe up to 3 dwarf variations.

Because it'd be racist to have "Black Human" and "Asian Human" so they do it with elves instead.

>>49168388
Is it really three types, or one type with varying degrees of mutation?

>>49168341
>blood elf, aka, TRUE Elf.
you misspelt high elf.

>>49168390
the high elves' help. not the fel crystal abusing blood elves.

the night elves also have re embraced the arcane while the blood elves have done what exactly?

>>49168145
You forgot Sabellian

>>49163924
It's terrible for the same reason that The Sentry was a terrible Marvel character.
Illidan had absolutely nothing to do with the scene in question originally; by adding him in, it robs the characters involved of their achievements.

>>49168426
If Blood Elves count as seperate from High Elves, then yeah they're seperate. Pretty much all evolutions of Elves are mutations caused by magic anyway.

>>49168427
Night elves are magically uplifted trolls. Look it up.

Blood elves are the only actual elves from Azeroth.

In fact, if the portal from outland never happened, it'd be Humans versus Trolls instead of Humans vs Orcs.

>>49168427
>high elves

Any high elf worth a damn stayed and fought in Quel'thalas, and later have enough pride to be independent. The high elves you see now are literal cucks that are off sucking human dicks while their kingdom fell.

>>49168468
>Night Elves
>High Elves
>whatever the Suramar ones are
>not from Azeroth
justify this

BUT ALSO:
>implying the Trolls are an actual threat if the Human kingdoms aren't hit by the Horde
they couldn't stop tribal Humans, and they certainly couldn't stop them now.

>>49167955
Even Kayn admits that Illidan was on the verge of loosing control of his demonic powers, but believes he was managing to keep the problem contained and could've gotten better.

Really, the only major personality flaw Kayn has is that he might be too unquestioning of his superiors, but a) he's a soldier and following orders is what soldiers are supposed to do and b) as you mentioned, you really don't want to start doubting your cause when you have a literal demon stuck in your head, waiting to exploit any moment of weakness.

>>49168388
Elves did have an empire spanning the entirety of Kalimdor before the Sundering, after all. All the different subspecies of elves are just what happened after the apocalypse shattered their empire and the various scattered groups adapted to the new world. In contrast, humans all descended from vrykul, with no meaningful changes bar perhaps skin colour, depending on the platitude they lived in, and even then most of them settled mild climate lands. There simply is no cause for a massive disparity in their genes.

>>49168452
I agree it's shit, but what is the alternative? Clearly people, Blizz included, weren't happy with how Illidan's story in BC was handled. They didn't want to outright retcon the events of BC so they have to dance around it by adding 'unknown' events like this. You can't have a book where the main character just sits in BT waiting to be killed by murderhobos, he has to be out there doing stuff and it has to be consistant with the game.

>>49168269
To be fair, helves never were happy in the Alliance either and got the fuck out the moment trolls near their home were defeated and Lothar (who was the last heir of Arathor lineage they made a pact with during the Troll Wars) kicked the bucket.

Sylvanas had to blackmail them to force them to support the Horde in Northrend during WotLK

All they ever wanted was to be left alone and perhaps watch the rest of the world kill each other.

>>49168512
Trolls are too chill to war outside their own kind. Trolls would war with trolls nonstop but only attacked humans in passing.

Granted, this is all hypothetical at this point because orcs have tainted the grounds of Azeroth ever since they arrived changing how everyone would have progressed.

Trolls may have just been secluded to ghettos shooting eachother over tusk polish.

Night elves are from azeroth, but they're not elves. They're magical trolls. To call them elves is unfair to high/blood elves. Called blood elves because they're elves by blood. I don't think Blood elves are off shoots of humans, but it may have happened a millenia before warcraft took place. I remember Trolls were the original humanoids of Azeroth for eons.

>>49168494
any high elf worth a damn helped their allies who saved their kingdom. Blood elves are the ones who sealed their gates shut until arthas tore them a new asshole

>>49168388
Meh, elves are themselves just a (magically mutated) subspecies of troll, and trolls are extremely adaptable race: You've got jungle trolls, forest trolls, sand trolls, ice trolls and dark trolls, all with different physical characteristics, plus dire trolls

>>49168543
The original split from the Sundering created Satyr, Naga and High Elves, all were magical mutations. The first by Legion, the second by Old God magic and the last by Sunwell magic (and also switching to a diurnal lifestyle too, I've forgotten why they did that).

>>49168586
Blood Elves are descendants of the Highborne Caste of Night Elves. The game even says it outright in Pandaria, showing Night Elves in your ancestors during Loremaster Cho's questline.

>>49168598
>my belfs are worth a damn
>no my belfs
The belfs at large today are just caught up in the mangled intentions of politics that never concerned them to begin with. PICK A SIDE PICK A SIDE PICK A SIDE.

Belfs just keep trying to be left the fuck alone and their side keeps losing.

>>49168626
>in pandaria
Easily ignored because everything in pandaria was an ass pull.

>>49168586
>Night elves are from azeroth, but they're not elves. They're magical trolls. To call them elves is unfair to high/blood elves. Called blood elves because they're elves by blood. I don't think Blood elves are off shoots of humans, but it may have happened a millenia before warcraft took place. I remember Trolls were the original humanoids of Azeroth for eons.

>>49168635
>Easily ignored because everything in pandaria was an ass pull.
Helves being mutated Nelves has been a thing since wc3, don't blame him for not paying attention and pulling stuff out of your arse.

>>49168586
>Blood elf off shoot of humans

Literally what? Blood elves are high elf survivors of the Scourge invasion that later sucked demon jizz. High elves are ancient night elf highborns that practiced magic and were exiled from night elven land after the commies took over.

Trolls -> ancient night elf -> naga, high elf, modern night elf, suramar elf > blood elf, nightfallen, crack blood/suramar elf

>>49168666
What's a suramar?

>>49168678
Ancient capital of the Nelves that got sunk by the Sundering. Got brought back in Legion.

>>49168598
Sure, help your allies that end up getting rekt anyway while your own country burned. Help your "allies" that sends you on suicide missions and later tried to commit genocide on you race. Oh and also, outright declear war on your people to stay on the good side of your "allies".

Yes, very worthy indeed

>arthas killed over 90% of the blood elves in the third war
>blood elves probably outnumber all but two other races

>>49168700
Aren't suramar and nightfallens the same thing, but nightfallens are addicted to w/e their well was?

More importantly, the fuck is it with elves and their descendants that makes them so damn prone to being addicted to 'element'-wells?

>>49168586
All right... so: titans created non-Thraxxi/Aquir organic races of Azeroth, through Watcher Freya's Emerald Dream. Original troll species, now known as Zandalari trolls evolved into different forms, including dark trolls. Dark trolls were mutated by proximity to Well of Eternity to night elves. War of the Ancients, Sundering happened, surviving Highborne elves did shit with their arcane magic, druids kicked them out. They sailed to Eastern Kingdoms, eventually settled in Quel'thalas, used vial of Well of Eternity water stolen from Illidan to create the Sunwell, turning mutating into smaller form of high elves. Blah blah blah, 3rd War, survivors began to call themselves blood elves, their eyes started to glow green because they were around fel crystals (they haven't actually used fel to sate their magic addiction, just being around fel batteries was enough, like orcs turning green even without drinking Mannoroth's blood themselves)

>>49168717
Suramar is the place full of nightfallen.

And it might be that elves endlessly crave that which created them.

>>49168569
I don't really have a beef with them soft-retconning Illidan stuff form TBC, because he was very abdly handled. The only explanation we got for him becoming the main villain for most of the expansion was "idk, he went crazy or something". Having all the stuff he was up to be part of his ongoing quest to fight the Legion, rather than him just randomly deciding to enslave and rule over Outland, makes sense.

The problem is that Blizz for some reason decided to turn him into the Chosen One elf-demon-Jesus. That doesn't at all fit Illidan's character. He's at best an antihero, somebody who might be working for a good cause but tends to cause a lot of colletral damage (fucking something up and causing as much if not more harm than good is pretty much Illidan's trademark). Having him on your side and pointed towards the enemy when the Legion comes back is a good idea, since he knows more about fighting demons than nearly anybody, and having the Naaru realize that oops, maybe killing off the guy who was very good at fighting our mutual enemy wasn't the smartest idea is fine. But turning him into the messiah who can do no wrong is just dumb.

>>49168717
Suramar is the name of nightfallen city

>>49168717
>blood elves probably outnumber all but two other races
of course, they've been fucking like rabbits since their introduction

>>49168744
>suramar is the place full of nightfallen
And nightfallen are suramar elves. Yea? That was my point. They weren't born a different race. They're just surameens/suramanians with a craving. I for whatever reason associated Vampires and Humans(not warcraft ones). All vampires are humans, but not all humans are vampires kinda thing.

>>49168714
>abloobloo, garithos was mean to me
The scourge wouldn't have been a problem if the elves had not helped. They left the alliance when it was inconvenient for them and came crying back once they got their shit stomped.

>>49168776
In Warcraft, vampires are elves too. At least San'alyn/Darkfallen (huh... interesting, Darkfallen, Nightfallen...).

>Blood elves are 7-7,5 feet tall. -wow wiki
What? How damn tall is a troll/worgen then? How tall is a tauren even? Like 10 feet easily? For fucks sake.

>>49168834
>yfw Tauren actually are supposed to be 9-10 feet tall
>yfw model size limitations

>>49168757
Don't the citizens of Suramar call themselves somethign else? Like Nightborne or something. Nightfallen are the ones exiled but not yet withered.

>>49168761
I read from somewhere long ago (probably wowwiki) that it takes ~60 years for an elf to mature. So, no matter how much they fuck, the adult blood elf population didn't recover at all since the Third War.

>>49168761
How big is a blood elf female's womb? Do you think they can have multiple simultaneous pregnancies? Are there blood elf breeding harems?

>>49168813
I was talking generically. Nightfallen strike me as a subset of suramar elves. As worgen are a subset of gilneans(or night elves) or vampires are a subset of humans.

>>49168861
>ogre has been a rumored playable race since vagina but they were too big to fit through doors

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1MB, 2198x641px

>>49168834
I wouldn't trust wowwiki. That shit's been defunct since Burning Crusade.
Also, High/Blood Elves have only ever been depicted at human heights. 7+ feet is Night Elf territory.

>>49168809
>The Legion wouldn't have been a problem if the humans had helped. They left the Horde/Alliance alliance when it was inconvenient for them and came crying back once their king got raped.

FIFY

>>49168834
>wowwiki

>>49168809
Some uppity fucking Marshal jailed and tried to execute the god damn Prince of all High Elves.

You obviously have a meme grasp of lore if you think Garithos had any right to do anything other than tell the High Elves to fuck off cause he no longer wants their help.

>>49168870
Ah, right, my mistake, Nightborne is the original race, Nightfallen are the addicts equivalent to wretched

>>49168870
>population didn't recover at all
Then there were over 10 times as many high elves on azeroth than any other race by the time Arthas came to power. Because currently Belves are one of the, if not the, most played races in all of wow. As soon as they became playable, the race as a whole exploded and closed the gap on night elves at leaps and bounds.

>>49168912
>>49168903
Yea, it actually cites a BradyGames guide for the figure. lol.

>>49168717
Nightborne is the name of the elves living in Suramar. They're very similar to the high/blood elves in that they're both descendants of the magic-using night elf nobility, who after the Sundering built themselves a fon of arcane power (the Nightwell/Sunwell) and were over time changed by exposure to its energies.

The nightfallen are just nightborne who have been deprived of the Nightwell's energy. Their appearance changes in the process, and over time they'll devolve into the bestial "withered" (same thing also happens on blood elves, although they call the degenerate elves "wretched"). They probably don't count as a separate race, though. Also I don't know if the effect is reversible (if they progress to withered state it probably isn't, but the nightfallen might still be restored to nightborne).

As for why elves tend to be addicted to [something]-wells, the original night elves were trolls mutated by arcane energies from the Well of Eternity. Elves seem to share the trait of trolls in being very adaptable, and their origin has also given them an affinity (and dependancy) on arcane magic. Night elves banned the use of arcane magic after the Sundering, and got their magic fix from moonwells and druidic magic (through their connection with the World Tree), and over time weaned themselves off of their dependency. High elves and nightborne didn't, and instead created a new source of magic to feed on, over time developing even bigged dependency, to the point where the nightborne in particular can't survive without nearly contantly feeding on mana.

>>49168907
>if the humans had helped
>primary forces opposing the legion in the EK was dalaran, largely a human city
>primary target was lordaeron the strongest human kingdom
>instead of helping their allies the high elves send a few wololos to investigate this plague and sit on their asses.
>humans bear the brunt of the legion invasion and the kingdom of lordaeron is destroyed
yeah, if only the humans had done something.
>>49168914
So they went ahead and joined the same faction that had attacked their forests and burned large sections of it in a prior war.

Truly garithos must be the worst thing to happen to the elves.

>>49168933
I'm pretty sure they are using GW's statistics: "There are just as many or few elves as story needs"

>>49168966
What I'm gathering from all this elf stuff is that Trolls are the original species, along with Vyrkuls, I guess.

And that Trolls are not magic addicts whereas all elves are leashed to some hippy commune well.

Are Trolls the libertarian race of Warcraft?

But more to your point, The Nightborne would BE the original night elves, right?

It would go Trolls -> Nightborne -> [Sundering] -> Everyone else

>>49168969
>So they went ahead and joined the same faction that had attacked their forests and burned large sections of it in a prior war.

You forget that a prominent leader(of the only other race from the Horde on the god damn continent) of said faction was pretty much their Military Commander years ago?

That's a pretty big in lore reason for it.

>>49168870
>the adult blood elf population didn't recover
and? the jailbait blood elf population is booming

>>49169000
Vrykuls were a titan thing.

>>49169009
and she was also an undead corpse

>>49169000
Nelves are the original elves. Arcane magic is addictive and changes its users, even if to a lesser degree than fel. Highborne/Nightborne are further changed by their millenia of arcane magic use

>>49169000
No,Night Elves are the original Night Elves.

Nightborne are mutated by the Nightwell,just like Blood Elves by the Sunwell.

Also,didn't they lock Illidan up and make a big deal out of him stealing a tiny vial of the Well of Eternity,but there's like 30 gajilion fuckers who apparently did the same?

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>>49168586
>Night Elves
>not elves

please refer to my handy chart

>>49169011
m8 Player characters =/= lore population numbers

>>49169029
Illidan stole 5 vials before it went kaboom. Used one himself to create the new Well of Eternity on Hyjal, Dath'remar took another to create Sunwell, Illidan somehow took 2 with himself to Outland and gave them to Kael'thas and Vashj, we didn't know what happened to the last one until Legion

>>49169039
>we're a dying race
>there's only a tenth of us left
>send money and help
>there's 15 million of them for every 1 million of another race
Blood Elf Genocide World Wide

>>49169034
So the sumarites/nightborne are the gilnean elves of the sundering.

I haven't played legion, and only watched that little nightfallen cinematic on youtube. I thought sumaria or w/e is where the well of eternity sat and everyone sprang up from around it.

>>49169072
suramar was the capital of elvendom

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>>49169087
Yea, so it's where the well of eternity sat. The center of warcraft pangea. Where the original trolls were buttfucking till one fell in the latrine and came out smart and told other trolls not to poop in the water.

So the first uppity humanoid was born.

>>49168969
>orcs killed a fuckton of humans under demon influence
>humans are justified to want to wipe out the orcs

>human brought with him an army of skellies and killed 90% of the elven population
>elf willing to work with human resistance, got sent to do a bunch of suicidal shit missions by humans, many more elves died
>humans wanted to kill more elves including their prince
>why the fuck aren't the elves sucking human dicks?

Shit bait memester

>>49169000
Nightborne and modern night elves both actually part of the original night elf empire. Nightborne are direct descendants of night elf aristocracy, still living in a city built before the Sundering (where as high elves are descendants of exiled highborne who built a new civilization in the Eastern Kingdoms), but mutated by the exposure to the Nightwell. Modern night elves are descendants of the lowborn night elves, who didn't practice arcane magic. Their appearance is unchanged from the original, but culturally they're somewhat different (pre-Sundering night elves already had druids and other things you see with modern night elves, but their society was rules by the magic-using highborne. Post-Sundering, the former ruling class was eliminated and the surviving night elves focused entirely on druidic and divine magic in favor of the arcane, and became a theocracy led by the priestesses of Elune).

>>49169087
Don't you mean Zin-Azshari?

>>49169141
can someone explain how this became a meme?

>>49168813
Actually there's a vrykul vampyr in Stormheim.

http://www.wowhead.com/npc=107588/blood-thane-lucard

>>49169061
Well it just seems to me like the Night Elves are huge hypocrites desu

>oh how dare you Illidan,you're just repeating the mistakes of the Highborne
>you bad bad Betrayer
>yeah sure plant a tree that will be central to our culture in this well Illidan made possible
>ooh,bless it with immortality and make us all undying?Yeah senpai shoot that shit up
>Fuck Illidan though,god damn Betrayer.

>>49169206
the tree and the well was the reason the legion returned to azeroth in the first place retard. Illidan placed a giant homing beacon on the planet that said "HERE WE ARE, COME RAPE OUR BOIPUSSIES" to the legion. They planted the tree so that it would prevent sargeras from breaking through to the physical plane.

>>49169206
theres legit reasons why everyone basically agrees illidan dindu nuffin, he was a gud boi.

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>>49169206
Night Elves are hypocrites.

>>49169148
Blood elves keep getting exiled and exiled and exiled. They will schism again and call themselves 'Unwanted Elves' in next xpac. There seems to be a specific line of elves that keeps getting shafted no matter who they choose. Like the population hits a certain threshold and suddenly half of them have to be exiled, a third are loyal and die, and the remainder just leave to wherever and they all try to create a new well.

>>49169176

>>49169206
They retconned that so it was that + when confronted about it he got mad and killed 2-3 guys, also attacked Maiev's bro. I think that's from a book.

>>49169206
Speaking of trees, the fuck's going on with all these world trees? I thought Nodrassil was the only one. Then there's Teldrassil, the one in Grizzily Hills, a new Nodrassil in Hyjal?? Now we get a Shaldrassil in Val'sharah?

Can anyone explain how they plant all these trees after the first and why does every single one of them fail/get corrupted, don't the druids learn from their mistakes?

>>49169240
They knew where Azeroth was. It's not like they *only* attacked planets with massively powerful fonts of power. They were gonna come back eventually either way, it's obvious.

>>49169255
Seriously, what is up with the gorilla?
I thought all that happened was that she got shot because she wanted to return the little nigga to it's parents.

>>49169264
>every one gets corrupted
World trees are a symbol of civilization. They're basically mirrors of the current state of the area they inhabit. Healthy trees reflect a healthy society. Societies eventually crumble, and so the tree follows suit.

>>49169264
their roots go down deep
the old gods are locked in deep
guess what happens.

>>49169279
When illidan was introduced it made perfect sense for him to be called the betrayer. The only reason the legion knew where azeroth was was because of it's well of arcane magic.

Then blizzard retconned everything so many times that it is now a milkshit

>>49169291
It ballooned out of all the fake outrage people had over it amid all the outrage of black people being shot by cops.

It was a perfect storm of sorts because harambe was 17 years old and it's kinda allegorical to what black lives matter keeps saying. They shoot us cuz dey don unstand us.

And of course, the media outrage was gone in a week because no one genuinely gave half a shit about harambe except the fucking handler that shot him, hated that he had to do it, but would have done the exact same thing if it happened all over.

And of course, seeing the fake outrage for what it was, the internet turned it into a joke.

>>49166902
As mentioned, the most immediately obvious class clashes are paladins vs. death knights, when the death knights raid Light's Hope Chapel to claim the body of Tirion Fordring, so that he may be raised as a member of the reborn Four Horsemen.

Beyond that, most classes seem to keep to themselves and not step on the toes of others, since they're busy with their respective jobs.

>>49169264
World Trees are the last expression of Night Elven masculinity in a world where all the men have to take naps for milennia while women run all the shit.

They can't stop making World Trees without giving up on their very place in society

>>49169338
I feel bad for the handler desu. its like shooting a close friennd, but you have to do it.

>>49169334
I think the rumors of retcons are over mentioned.

Unless there's citation contradictions, you can't just call it a retcon because their vagueness left an interpretation open that wasn't popular.

I think characters routinely act against their own established beliefs on a routine basis though and are then rationalized by writers after the fact. I wouldn't call that a retcon though if it doesn't directly contradict citable verse.

>>49169334
>When illidan was introduced it made perfect sense for him to be called the betrayer. The only reason the legion knew where azeroth was was because of it's well of arcane magic.

Nah after they made their first invasion, they knew where Azeroth was. They just needed the Well to summon them. But this is kind of moot because they don't use the Well to summon Archimonde anyway, so even in WC3, Illidan still did nothing wrong in making a new Well.

>>49169206
Illidan wanted to make a new well because he figured the Legion will come back eventually either way, and the power of the well would help the elves fight them. Other elves went "you idiot, that'll just bring them back faster!", Illidant sperged out and killed a bunch of elves for disagreeing with him and wounded Maiev's brother, so Maiev locked him up in her ten-thousand-year rape-dungeon. You still had the damn well Illidan made, though, so they decided to plant a really big tree on top of it that would siphon its power and hide it from the Legion. As a bonus, the power siphoned by the tree could also be used to make the night elves immortal.

>>49169388
Archimonde was peanuts compared to sargeras. The only reason the well was necessary was because it was the font of magical power capable of summoning sargeras into the real world.

The legion got beaten back when the entire gang tried fighting the night elves and the ancients.

Illidan then illidan went ahead and created another well of eternity because he wanted his crack badly.
>>49169386
The entire backstory of the universe changed twice. The well of eternity was simply a font of immense magical power that was capable of summoning the legion. It wasn't the vaginal fluid of baby azeroth.

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>Go off to raise Inquisitor Whitemane
>Nazgrim is force choking like 5 crusaders at once and demands a better challenge

Holy fuck I love my deathknight buddies.

Also how many times have we utterly wiped out the scarlet crusade? It's fucking ridiculous at this point.

>>49169856
You can't wipe out a question that always needs answering. There will always be scarlet crusaders. Even if they're all wiped out and ten thousand years pass, there will be more scarlet crusaders.

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>>49169884
Can't they just use a different name? You'd think with all the ass whoopings and demonic betrayals they've dealt with, that the would be crusaders would go 'You know, the scarlet crusade isn't a respected name anymore. Maybe we should go with the crimson evangelists' or something.

>>49169916
>scarlet crusade isn't respected anymore
It actually is outside major cities under the protection of stormwind.

The Scarlet Crusade specifically defends people from undead interlopers. Granted, they have to enforce a very hard line policy when it comes to judgement, but aside from the players constantly kicking the shit out of them for being true to the light, there are hamlets all over that respect the Scarlet Crusade. It's from these places that people volunteer from.

It really doesn't take much to drum up recruitment either.

>stormwind didn't come to our village when the scourge spread there
>but the scarlet crusade did
And really it only went unforgivable because leadership got subverted by a dreadlord. The actual faction is resolved in their goal. Save humanity and purge the forsaken.

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>Polymorphic Rules & Regulations

>Species altercation has the highest potential for abuse and disaster, and is the source of the most number of complaints to the Kirin Tor. Polymorphic study has been under constant scrutiny and threat of removal for years, but only recently have these tribulations increased exponentially. In order for this spell to continue to be sanctioned certain guidelines must be put in place to throttle the increasing number of tragedies reckless polymorphs have caused.
Rule# 1: Do not turn a creature of lesser intelligence into a creature of higher intelligence - Cerebral brain function rarely translates in a polymorph... But sometimes it does. Voracious creatures such as serpents and wolves need not have their predatory instincts honed with a human mind. We feel obligated to quote Small Claims Disaster Case 12651-B, Labeled, >"Bartholomew: The Bear who Bears Arms."

>Bartholomew: The Bear who Bears Arms

>>49169983
I feel like the Argents kinda usurped whatever goodwill the Scarlets had.

>>49170008
On a scale of crusaders from 0-10 with stormwind at zero, Argent is at about 4 and Scarlet is about 7. Onslaught was about 8. I'd put Arthas stratholme between 8 and 9. And Sargeras is at 9. I'm judging this on their willingness to purge undesirables at the inclusion of collateral damage.

But for the purposes of the game, scarlet sects are just mooks made for killing.

>>49168717
>blood elves probably outnumber all but two other races

Actually Blood Elves are still the most populous race. Like 30% of the Horde are Blood Elves. Meanwhile the Alliance is 32% Human but shit, at least humans were the founders of their faction, not some latecomers.

>>49170088
How the fuck is Sargeras at ''9'' when he plans to unmake fucking reality?

How much harder can you crusade than that?

>>49170199
>unmake reality
That's not his goal. He wants to purge life from the physical realm, but that still leaves the void which he doesn't know how to combat. So until he can purge elements from existence, I'd say he has a ceiling.

The first rule of fiction is to never paint yourself into a corner too soon.

There's always the possibility for something bigger, badder, stranger, or anti-thetical.

There were several wizards in Lord of the Rings, and we only know what happened to a little over half of them. Because, if he had ever felt like it, Tolkien could have expanded on the unexplored wizards and the lands he never discussed.

>>49167376
If it turned out that Anduin after the death of his father started to channel more of psyic and dark priest powers that would be of use in the Alliance side of things then that would be pretty damn bad ass.

Not to mention there is the fact that our younger Naruu friends had been hoodwinked by "Xera" to go after Illidan, what's stopping Xera from being wrong about her so called choosen one and that it's she has the wrong one? I mean in TBC we all accepted our Naru overlords word for word of god when we went on our crusades so I dont see why Xera can't be wrong as well.

>>49168700
Suramar wasn't the capital, just one important city, where the protaganists lived. Zin-Azshari or whatever that was right next to the Well was the capital.

>>49169034
The original race is Night Elves. That's what they called themselves long before the War of the Ancients.

>>49170457
It's funny that they called themselves night elves when that implies there was a race of 'elves' they were differentiating themselves from.

Unless you want to call Trolls pure elves. It's just kinda silly. Would you call yourself African-American if there was no American yet?

>>49169264
The Nordrassil in Hyjal is the same one that's always been there, it's the original. Teldrassil was a bad attempt at a replacement after Nordrassil lost its powers killing Archimonde, and was corrupted because it didn'thave the blessings of the Dragon Aspects like Nordrassil did and because Malfurian's second-in-command druid was secretly evil.

>>49170199
PCs are all 10. Their entire lives are dedicated to murdering things.

They will slaughter entire villages at the request of complete strangers for meager rewards, because the experience of ending life is reward enough for them.

Any other interest they have is just a means to enhance their ability to kill things.

Their greatest joys in life is knowing that they killed something first, and that they can kill things faster than anyone else.

Even Sargaras has a reason for what he's doing. Plus he wants to fuck that planet fetus.

>>49169856
>Thoras Trollbane says this war cannot be won by words
>Nazgrim knows that it can be won through sick poses and boasting
death knights are best knights

>>49170521
I'm pretty sure they called themselves Kaldorei, children of the stars. Really, they have their own names for themselves in their language, the whole "elves" stuff is propably human invention

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>pandaria
>wtf kung fu panda expansion gay shit
>first couple of quests on alliance
>HORDE DON'T SURF [DIE WALKÜRE INTENSIFIES]
>decided to quickly rush WoD before doing Legion
>go to Nagrand
>fucking tanks
>do every quest with tanks
>it ain't me starts playing

>>49170850
they also collect shit though, like pets and being mount whores

>>49170914
>you're now acutely aware, 'elf' is a racial slur humans attributed to everything that was non-human
>people only refer to dwarves and gnomes and trolls as such because there were getting to be too damn many words in front of elf
>short elves
>midget elves
>tusked elves
Suddenly Garithos makes so much sense. If only he'd refered to all non-humans as some form of elf, it'd be perfect.

>>49170930
Don't forget Redridge Mountains in Cata was one long Rambo reference.

>>49168468
All Elves are uplifted trolls

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>>49171226
Difference is, it didn't become the main thing that made me actually enjoy an expansion. It is however the main reason every single Alliance character I level goes through Redridge.

On a more autistic note, the retarded strategic decisions of the Argent Crusade became more bearable when I started pretending it was actually Apocalypse Now.
>Scourge=Communism
>Argent Crusade=US military and CIA
>Scarlet Crusade=Kurtz
>Argent Vanguard=Do Lung
>Argent Tournament=Bunny Show

>>49168468
>Blood elves are the only actual elves from Azeroth.

Blood Elves are literally degenerated magic addicted High Elves, who are literally physically degenerated Night Elves, who are uplifted trolls. Naga and Satyrs are corrupted Night Elves.

>>49171473
Ever done old Stranglethorn questline dealing with rogue Alliance commander colonel Kurzen?

>>49170930
>questing in Pandaria
>Napalm Sticks to Kids starts playing

>>49171521
Is it still around after Cata?

>>49171578
Yes, it is.

Spriest is in the middle of it.

>>49171521
>going through all the previously end game content solo
Fun stuff.
I did the entirety of sunwell plateau as my warrior just to see the content. Solo'ing the 5man band in the first instance was funny when I remember all the time people spent planning how to take them on.

>>49163484
I think thats the point. You have never seen them act as intelligence agents. And people keep summoning them despite them not being amazing in combat.

>>49171578
It's SORTA still going but there's a twist now.

>>49171606
Nice, I'm making a list of zones to level a human hunter through, becuause Karazhan gun transmog. Was already planning on doing Stranglethorn, along with Redridge and Eastern Plague Lands, but I'm happy to see it's still around.

>>49171693
The succubus is one of the hallmark summons. It's the third or fourth demon your PC learns to dominate, after the imp, voidwalker and felhunter.

>>49171693
The succubus is decent at combat, but they excel at utility, since they can go invisible and can charm enemies by, I dunno, sucking on her own titty or something.

If I remember correctly one zandalari implied that elves won in the elves vs troll war because trolls refused to embrace magic for some reason (did they know?) and the only reason trolls held for so long was because mojo enchantments were way more powerful than normal enchantment

>>49171797
Yup. Exactly.

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>>49171912
Not every demon has to be dominated strictly for their killing potential.

>>49171615
I'm sad how easy SWP is at higher levels.
Doing Kil'jaeden at 70 was the single most epic fight I've ever done in WoW.
I really wish they'd do a heroic revamp.
Would fit perfectly with Legion.

>>49171693
They used to be the top DPS pet that you wanted when you raided unless you were the Health Pact bitch who had to run with your imp out.
Then Felguard came out and could hold aggro, unlike Vanilla Voidwalker and could do much better damage than Succubus, and had AOE abilities.
They still have CC use, but CC is such a pathetically underutilized mechanic now since every one thinks the only way to tank is gather everything up and AOE.
Hell, the Beta for Burning Crusade, Felguards could 1-shot mages and priests with a crit. Was funny.

Night elves don't feed on nature magic but moon magic which probably just is arcane filtered by elune.

It feels a bit like they're going to turn Illidan into Cataclysm-era Thrall.

>>49171891
Also suramer survived because the shield around it was powered by a well meanwhile zandalari saved zandalar with fucking troll mojo bullshit during the sundering (then it starts sinking in mop because blizz were running out of trolls for their troll patch they ship during every expansion as filler content)

WoD was the worst expansion and didn't have a troll filler patch.

>>49171966
I've heard something about turning Sunwell into a scenario, though it may have been just a baseless rumor

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https://youtu.be/rTtSlQfSsQY

>70 year old dude

>Survives a gunship fight, an explosion, a lost offscreen battle and an arrow of slaying to the chest, all in one day.

>Walks off like a badass in the end

GOD BLESS GENN GREYMANE

>>49172669
Probably not one day. It's important to remember that video game scale is in full effect, especially since they managed to set up a small fort village with walls and everything in Stormheim. You're journey to earn Odin's favor and secure the Aegis probably takes some time, especially the part you spend in Helheim.

Elves suck. It's their defining characteristic: nelves suck dick (mostly in Goldshire), helves and nightborne suck arcane energy, belves suck fel and san'alyn suck blood.

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>>49172669
>that cutscene

Sure is nice seeing Sylvanas get taken down a peg or three.

>>49172645
Blech. Scenarios were a failed experiment from MoP.
I don't like the idea of turning the huge, epic battle into a little scenario because you kinda really do need that large group to really grasp the scale involved in the fights.
They just don't have the impact with small groups.

>>49172669
>got hit by a Black Arrow
He will be dead before Legion's end.

I'm no fan of Sylvannas, though.

>>49172669
>be Horde death knight
>get conscripted into the pathetic war in Stormheim by a known enemy of the Ebon Blade
>for some reason she expects me to lead her armies
>take my time to ensure as many Forsaken and Gilnean casualties as possible
>slaughter dozens of Gilneans and then leave my men to die at the hands of the vrykul
>Sylvanas gets completely BTFO by Greymane anyway
in the end, all shall serve

>>49172669

I'm pleasantly surprised by Worgen given so much attention this xpac. Hopefully they get a graphics update soon.

>>49167376
>implying this would be better

>tfw loved the night elven race since WC3
>tfw people itt convinced me they are crazy and incompetent
Y-you too, guys

>>49173053
>known enemy of the Ebon Blade
How is Sylvanas on the Ebon Blade's shitlist in particular?

>>49173265
If you haven't noticed, nearly every truly cataclysmic event in Azeroth is, in at least some roundabout way, the night elves' fault.

>>49173298
Didn't she kidnap Koltira and try and mindrape him into serving the Forsaken exclusively?
Pretty sure the DKs would get fairly pissed off by that happening to one of their own, especially after the whole "No free will" thing under the Lich King.

>>49173298
>>49173356
she imprisons Koltira during Cata and holds him prisoner for 4 years. In Legion, you and Thassarian rescue him and kill a bunch of Sylvanas' aboms

>>49173356
That's correct. After Ebon bros Thassarian and Koltira Deathweaver agree to what amounts to a truce in the Plaguelands, Sylvanas kidnaps Koltira and sends him off to her personal gulag to torture him back into service of the Horde alone. The Ebon Blade never leaves a man behind, so they bust him out.

>>49173047
>black arrow is a death sentence
It's only a debuff, dude. If you die under it's effects you become a thrall to her.

The black arrow is a strong poison, but it's not necessarily deadly on its own. And we don't even know that it was a black arrow she used there.

Even players can survive being hit by the black arrow so, ya know.

>>49173047
nah, black arrow only affects minions. Sylvanas is pretty shit against other heroes unless she gets the drop with Wailing Arrow :^)

>>49173265
Trolls literally dindu nuffin and have been trying to just survive since the dawn of their creation.

Then all this shit happens cuz a couple of them fell in the lake at the center of the island.

But to be fair, it's because the Night Elves were the first magically intuned race and had a world spanning empire by the time other races were even becoming more than tribes. So it's easy to blame everything on them when they were the only ones really playing in the pool at the time and no one else had shown up yet.

>>49173523
The War of the Ancients, the first Burning Legion invasion, and the Sundering - the three most apocalyptic events in Warcraft history - are all directly attributed to the night elves.

>>49173523
>Gurubashi and Amani empires
>dindu nuffin

>>49173553
They did do something, alright.

They rekt the remaining servants of the Old Gods so hard they got split into three segments and never fully recovered.

>>49173523
Didn't troll/AQ war predated Sundering and nelf civilisation? And both Amani and Gurubashi Empires originated from that, trolls were unified before

>>49173512
Nah, you can spec it to hit heroes. It only slows, though.

>>49173142
They got a new model pass in WoD in case you didn't hear. Same with goblins.

Dunno what more people want from them to be prettied up.

>>49173552
Did I say they weren't responsible? The lore just explains that all of that stuff was basically inevitable. If it weren't the night elves that caused it, it would have been another race. But there were way more night elves doing way more than just farming for way longer than anyone else. By sheer representation on azeroth, most tragedies, as well as advancements, would be attributed to them.

>>49173651
>shooting greymane as sylvannas doesn't take him out of wolf form in hots
OVERSIGHT

>>49173640
Trolls are literally the oldest non-Old God race on Azeroth. The only reason the trolls are bad off is because half their leaders died along with the Thunder King during an attack on the Halls of Origination. It splintered them and let the Elves take over.

>>49173655
>They got a new model pass in WoD in case you didn't hear. Same with goblins.
What?

They haven't been updated.

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>>49173754
They've looked like the right since WoD.

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>Just did Ysera quest in Val'sharah for the third time

Why does it still hurt...

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>>49173805
Because Ysera didn't deserve it. Malygos, Deathwing, and (eventually) Nozdormu deserved what they got. Not Ysera.

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>>49173804
Er, no. Anon.

The ones on the left were alpha models, from Cata. The ones on the right are how Worgen have looked since Cata. Is this some form of trolling?

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>>49173655
>Dunno what more people want from them to be prettied up.

For starters I think the playerbase almost unanimously wants the female Worgen model to not look like the bastard offspring of a pug and a chihuahua.

>>49173936
>>49173655
Basically there was one face in the selection of alpha/beta female worgen that was the most furry bait bullshit and there was a huge fan outcry over it. Soooo they made ALL the faces retarded looking in a massive overcompensation.

>>49173936
>the female version looks stupid
Almost all the female versions look stupid as fuck. They're just differently colored human females of varying heights.

But yea, I don't know how anyone can stomach playing a female worgen. They look dumb as fuck.

>>49173890
Well what exactly more do you want? The human form stuff is irrelevant and they have about as many variations on wolf form as other races do. What exactly is the problem that needs fixing? Female not withstanding which everyone acknowledges is horrible.

>>49173986
Have a link to the non-bait ones for comparison?

>>49173986
What did the furry bait bullshit face look like?

>>49173805
>>49173887
Because it's bullshit and one of the reasons I quit.

>>49173996
Eyeblinks, animation suite, females, and the wolf and human forms being inseperably linked in appearance so you can't customize them independently.

(also you need to be a black dude to be a white worgen and vice-versa, what the fuck is up with that?)

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>>49173996
>Well what exactly more do you want? The human form stuff is irrelevant and they have about as many variations on wolf form as other races do. What exactly is the problem that needs fixing? Female not withstanding which everyone acknowledges is horrible.
Animations, for one? Giving them facial expressions? Giving the models more life? I mean, this shit seems incredibly simple to me. Not sure why they aren't coming up as obvious for you.

>>49174037
>Giving them facial expressions?

This is a pretty glaring issue actually, especially now that Genn's updated model has a pretty big range of facial animation. Compared to the other races, Worgen are pretty blank-faced.

>>49174037
>incredibly simple
>THE MODELS ARE SHIT, BLIZZARD REEEEEEE
>How so?
>Make everything better, what the fuck do you mean how so?
This shit is why blizzard ignores most people, you know.

>>49174031
>wolf/human form is linked
>you gotta be black to have white hair
Why does anyone give a shit what the human form looks like?

>facial animations
Whenever. Literally don't care.

Considering how much people bitch about the worgen models, they're perfectly functional and I don't masturbate to my avatar so I don't really care too much about how it looks up close. Because I'm generally zoomed out as far as possible to be able to see shit that actually matters.

But the complaints don't mean anything is broken. They'll get facial rigs eventually. If that's actually damaging their sales, then holy fuck is that trite.

>blood elf mage
>night elf hunter
>tauren druid
>troll shamen
>human paladin
>orc warrior
>undead warlock
>panda monk
>human priest
>rogue worgen
>any DK


these are the thematic appropriately correct combination

>>49174211
Human DK is the only appropriate DK combination.

>>49174211
shit, meant to put Draeni priest

>>49174211
>no dorf
>no gnome
>no goblin
Someone's racist.

>>49174229
well, we'll have to settle for any DK -panda, with BE, Undead and Human being prime

>>49174211
for the record, Troll Druid's are the swagginest of ferals. Nothing but style points.

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>>49174211
The troll can be whatever the fuck he wants, but I can live with him being a shaman. That was my race-class combo.

>>49174229
>humans are the only race that died in the Plaguelands between WC3 and Wrath
not this shit again

>>49174240
>dwarf
not raciest, just not thematically appropriate and easy to put into a class

>goblin
>gnome
filth and should have been put in the ground and never seen again. panda fits in this category, but they have a slight redemption as they get an appropriate class

>>49174274
Strange, I don't recall there being a Shoveltusk Glyph.

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>>49174211
>Night Elf hunter
>Tauren druid
>not Night Elf druid and Tauren hunter
git gud

>>49174287
Scourge death knights were literally fallen human paladins raised as DK's. It's just as thematic as human paladins. Sure there are other DK's, but from the beginning DK's were humans, and the head honcho DK is human too.

They even introduced the DK class by showing a human paladin becoming a DK in the trailer.

>>49174309
They really fucked the cosmetic glyphs over, actually.

>>49174312
all the druids went to sleep. all the hunters are women riding big pussycats with other hunters and getting all sweaty under the moon.

>>49174292
panda as well as monk can be removed and literally nothing of value is lost.

Dwarfs are literally riflemen, and there's only one class that can use rifles.

Goblins/Gnomes are also minor races and are either rogues are hunters because engineering.

>>49174268
The eyes and general facial structure of troll cat druids are a bit fucekd up but ignoring animation faults they look better on a design level than even most of the Legendary item skins.

>>49174309
I believe that some level of t10 had ghost shoveltusks but I may just be mistaken.

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>>49174274
Literally, the only classes barred to Darkspear trolls are paladins and demon hunters. Similarly, dwarves can be anything except druids and DHes, and blood elves can be anything except druids and shaman.

If you're a troll, dwarf or blood elf, take heart: you are the most versatile races in the game.

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>>49174360
>>49174292
>>49174211
>implying gnomes don't make the best warlocks