Warhammer 40k General

>>49155102
>that pic

hue

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Just because GW prints Tau wank doesn't mean Taufags like the Tau wank, either. They feel it's a pleasant change of pace from the standard Space Marine wank, but at the end of the day it's still just wank.

Taufags like the fluff that paints Tau as /morally/ better, with the Empire being actually made of cooperation and progress and LGBT rainbows. At the end of the day, Phil Kelly supports secret Tau abduction squads, reeducation camps, mind control pheromones, and entire Imperial populations being consigned to asteroid slave labor for being human.

In otherwords, he tries to make Tau more grimdark and 40k, and most Taufags are Taufags because they don't actually like the rest of 40k.

[Taurox speak]

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Why aren't there cat people in 40k?

Say you're shooting a vehicle squadron, in this case a squad of 3 land speeders. Do you shoot at them separately or do you resolve all your hits against the common facing and spread the hull points lost around?

Say I attack with 4 burst cannons and I land 5 glances. Do I blow up 2 and the last has 1 left or do I just guarantee one of them blows up and the others are lost?

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If I play KDK at 1000 points, how many extra models should I bring for summoning? ie, how often do those spells go off
I've only got so much cash so I'm not gonna have Bloodletters, Marines, Crushers AND Cannons all on hand immediately, so I'll probably just take the Letters and Crushers?

>>49155309
There are.

Felinids are a rare strain of sanctioned mutants native to a single Imperial world.

has the new kill team rules been leaked?

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>>49155322
ohmygod

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>>49155309
>>49155343

>>49155322
>>49155343
shit senpai

>>49155337
>new
You sweet summer child.

Just play Heralds of Ruin.

>>49155337
Leaked? It's already for sale.

>>49155309
>>49155322
>>49155343
>>49155348
Yeah, about that...
https://youtu.be/iUuvHPr4BGk

>>49155322
[Escalating Fear]

>>49155343
its for weebs to jerk off to

just like tau

>>49155313
it's like shooting a squad of flesh hounds, spread out the wounds in line of sight until you can't any more

it's kinda hilarious, skarbrand could punch 1 leman tank and all 3 could explode

>>49155315.
You will never need more than seven in regular games because you only get one per turn.
Five is probably most extra units you are likely to summon.
You might only need a single Bloodthirster.

It depends a lot on what your original 1000 points consists of.
It could be mostly cultists and spawn which will die quickly and generate lots of blood tithe.
Combined with the formation generating a point a turn it is possible (at least in theory) to summon an extra unit each turn.

>>49155388
>in line of sight
Not that anon but if I have a squad of 3 tanks form a conga line down a choke point would that mean if the first is wrecked the other 2 are okay due to the hull being completely obscured?

>>49155451
>can I block LoS to my unit using my unit

>>49155358
>49155102
Is there a proper gif of "I CAN'T BANG THAT"

>>49155451
can you block line of sight to your other 9 space marines by standing them in a conga line behind the 10th space marine so that you only take 1 wound?

>Black Crusade: Traitor's Hate

I'm a CSM player but I've no knowledge about this book. Anyone got a tldr

>>49155268
>They could climb the suit and hurl the pilots to their deaths due to the open cockpit.
Truly there is nothing more Imperial than climbing to victory above a literal mountain of corpses.

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Rate my actually casual Tau list for use against bros. I focus on being a sneaky git.

Tau Empire, 2 CADs + 2 Formations

HQ: Commander w/ Onager, Iridium, Puretide, Neuroweb Jammer, 2 weapons from (Airburst, cyclic, fusion, missile or plasma), Drone Controller, Stims = 185
HQ: Shadowsun = 135
HQ: Cadre Fireblade = 60
HQ: Darkstrider = 100

Troops: 3x5 Fire Warrior Strike team w/ Shas'ui, EMP grenades, Missile pod turret = 75 each, 225 total
Troops: 1x12 Fire Warrior Strike team w/ Shas'ui, EMP grenades, Missile pod turret = 152

Fast Attack: 1x6 Pathfinders w/ Shas'ui, EMP grenades, Bonding Knife = 94
Fast Attack: 1x4 Pathfinders w/ Shas'ui, EMP grenades, 3x Rail Rifles = 107
Fast Attack: Remora Drone Fighter (Taros Campaign 2nd Ed) = 90

Heavy Support: Sniper Drone team (1 Marksman, 3 Drones) = 58
Heavy Support: Sniper Drone team (1 Marksman, 3 Drones) = 58

Drone Network Formation: 6 Marker Drones = 84

Optimised Stealth Cadre
-----------------------
1x6 Stealthsuits w/ Shas'vre, 2x Fusion Blasters, Shas'vre Marker/Target lock, 4x Advanced Targeting System (for Burst Cannons), Target lock (for secondary Fusion Blaster), Positional Relay = 227
1x6 Stealthsuits w/ Shas'vre, 2x Fusion Blasters, Shas'vre Marker/Target lock, 4x Advanced Targeting System (for Burst Cannons), Target lock (for secondary Fusion Blaster), Homing Beacon = 232
1x Ghostkeel w/ Either weapon, TL Fusion Blaster, Stims, Velocity Tracker = 195

2002

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>>49155102

>IG still can't take multi-laser or heavy stubber heavy weapon teams on their infantry

>>49155517
>Anyone got a tldr

TL;DR We have no idea, but speculation is rampant that it's going to suck, as literally any speculation with regards to CSM is.

We shall see.

>>49155517
Reprint of Black Legion reprint just with the formation names filed off, a detachment added, and the loyalist psychic powers with new names. Prepare to be disappointed.

>>49155517
No but don't let your lack of knowledge prevent you from forming an opinion and bitching ceaselessly. It hasn't stopped any of your CSM friends.

>>49155545
I believe that's because multi-lasers actually require quite large power sources, and as such are usually just directly hooked into a vehicles power plant (so it has ammo as long as the vehicle is on).

Heavy stubbers? There is no excuse. How the FUCK am I supposed to play Catachans if my mixed-race Veterans can't wield their M60's to hate-fuck communist Tau? It's completely un-American, and I blame the British for it.

>>49155517
hack job of all the previous supplements we got earlier this year (fucking black legion and crimson slaughter got redone twice in a year, gw what the fuck are you smoking and where can i get it?), evil versions of the space marine powers and squads

>>49155515
no, but you might be able to conga line it enough to put some out of line of sight

>>49155545
maybe when you get an update

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>>49155545

>>49155563
See, I haven't actually heard anything from actual CSM players (at least IRL). All the bitching has been from SM players who secretly hope that CSM don't get anything special or unique that might put them over the edge.

>>49155517
tl;dr we don't really know but the few bits that got leaked don't look good, sorry.

>>49155515
>>49155451

This is actually a valid question, as wrecked vehicles, unlike models, turn into terrain when they are destroyed.

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Why do we have two threads?

>>49155535
>what is actually in the traitor's hate book aside from renegade knight variants (worse than the one we already got) and predator/vinidcator squadrons (why would you do this?)

>>49155603
>also word on the street is the Betrayal at Calth big box is being discontinued.

>>49155515
So no cover saves either then? I guess that's why my group doesn't use Battlefield Debris when vehicles get wrecked and just straight up removes them from the table.

>>49155656
>So no cover saves either then?
nah they are a unit so all the wounds are resolved against them at the same time, technically.

What's the best vehicle for Kill Team?

Not for any faction, but the one that you'd be retarded for not taking

>>49155563
>>49155546
As usual, GWIDF is here to spread lies and disinformation.

We actually know quite a bit. We know that, of the 11 "new" formations, three are virtually identical to Black Legion formations, down to hints that some have the same benefits. One is literally just a Knight. One is Kharn and 8 (!) squads of Berserkers. Two are the usual fare of "spam multiples of a unit and gain a benefit.".

We know that the only leaked power is a copy of a loyalist power, and that the discipline descriptions are unnervingly similar to the Loyalist disciplines.

>>49155705
burning chariot. 100 points, fast, d3 18" lascannon or torrent s5 ap3. or maybe the seeker chariot. you can probably tell what army i play

>>49155761
>One is Kharn and 8 (!) squads of Berserkers.
i honestly hope this one is good

like letting me charge 4d6 kind of good

>>49155761

already been confirmed the CSM spells are the same as the marine ones just with spooky names and descriptions

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My list for a semi compettive tournament amoung friend, catch is all lists MUST be 100% formations
What think?

>>49155770
The only way it'd be good is if they could run and charge the full 12" in the same turn. Or if they made their transports Assault Vehicles.

>>49155770

do you actually own 8 squads of berzerkers?

>>49155769
That's actually pretty dank.

Never seen one in play though

>>49155811
i own 80 berzerkers

>>49155811
I have 40 berserkers that I haven't fielded in ten years

>>49155831

the GW ones or FW ones?

>>49155837
ones i convered out of 30k shit, BaC and AoS shit

>>49155831
please tell me you run them alongside a lord and seven terminators

>>49155823
the burning chariot or the seeker chariot? the former is like a landspeeder while the later is something orks and dark eldar would personally enjoy

in my last game i failed to destroy one with 4 lascannon havocs and only managed to glance it to death due to bad rolls

>>49155545
There's no infantry multi-lasers and heavy stubbers are pleb PDF tier weapons.

>>49155873
i could ive got 20 cataphractii

>>49155294
Underrated post

>>49155883
>There's no infantry multi-lasers

Well fuck GW introduce them already. The SM armoury doubles every time they get a new codex.

>>49155886
any khorne army with less or more than 88 models might as well not exist

>>49155294
At the end of the day, I don't remember reading any anti lgbt imperial stuff, the only reason the imperium of man is "evil" is because they don't tolerate chaos and xenos filth, which really any thinking man can sympathise with

>>49155698
Understandable. The parts in BRB saying 0 HP becoming scenery, cover and how vehicles in a squad share damage was a big curiosity I wanted to clear up. Now I know what to do when dealing with vehicle squads, thanks.

>wounds
And now I want to know what LRBTs would be like if it was a MC.

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>>49155908
2bh ive only got 60 of the berzerkers painted and put together, and only 10 of the cataphractii done.

i just have another 40 marine bodies laying around and 10 cataphractii i could whip up if i wanted, but i think im going to make them as something else because i like the AoS conversions better.

im going to add probably add more AoS conversions until it hit 100 berzerkers and stop.

I WISH THOSE FUCKING ASSHOLES AT GW WOULD MAKE A NEW FUCKING BERZERKER KIT GOD DAMN IT WANT MORE VARIETY

THOSE SHITTY 20 YEAR OLD MODELS SUCKED 20 YEARS AGO AND THEY SUCK NOW

>>49155962

Honestly I'm not too sure what the complaint is with old berzerkers, there's only really a few outright doofy pieces in the kit, like that weird skull face.

>>49155582
Not really that relevant but the Autocannon on the CSM Havoc kit is an M60, you could use that I guess

>>49155877
Either actually, don't play with too many heretics.

The traitor friend is too busy 90% of the time.

>>49156001
their running legs are good, dated but good. the helmets need more detail, like the AoS ones, but they are decent.

the big turn off with them is that the arms are fucking garbage. weird out of scale arms with massive cartoony gloves, and the bolt pistols look like shit. also all the arms are just posed weird.

i own 0 of the GW berzerkers, but ive got the arm bits from the kit and they are total shit. if you want to use their chanaxes for anything you need to cut the hand off at the wrist and use a totally different arm, its trash.

>>49155446
How gimped is my army with a Herald in place of a Bloodthirster until I get the dough for one?
Do I run a Bloodthirster of Unfettered Fury or Insensate Rage?

Also is it just me or does this army rely heavily on formations?

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>long time lurker, first time poster
Last time I played a game was pic related.
Haven't painted in an equally long time.

I want to play Thousand Fluffsons, but is it even worth it right now? I have dug around on the Reddit sub, looked over some event results (including some undefeated 6 Dreadnaught/drop pod list) and the meta seems...odd?
Might just be me being out of the loop forever tho

>>49156111
play 30k, its a forgeworld game based on 40k rules but with FW army lists and some different rules, ksons are going to be in the new book thats coming out early next year or late this year. its better than 40k is atm

>>49156090

I used to have GW Zerkers but I traded them for Rubrics so I can get to my eventual goal of 9 squads of 9 each and have a 2500 pt apocalypse army of useless infantry.

>>49156111
Thousand Sons are fun if you make the game about spamming 1 die psychic powers and having units on the board turn 5.

If you care about winning... Well I have 5 wins with them out of like 120 games. Usually get about 1 win an annual Quarter. And that is after the local meta mellowed out because most people would table me with their standard armies.

30k has Thousand Sons coming out soon. Not Rubrics though, the original legion. Current guess is the book with their rules will be out at next Open day.

>>49156111

Yeah, basically a ton of bad rules writing decisions compounding over the years plus new freedoms in army construction have led to very gimmicky metas.

Loosely the main thing to know is that there are four tiers right now:

Jesus Christ how did you write something that broken tier: Eldar.

High tier: Space marines, Necrons, Tau.

Mid tier: Anything I didn't list above or below.

Don't even bother tier: Orks, Tyranids, Chaos Marines, possibly Dark Eldar.

>>49156111
The trick is to completely ignore the rules and just paint the models you like.

I've given up on ever playing a GW game again. Except maybe the odd boardgame.

>>49156136

Eh, only has 2 factions/10.

>>49156111
What >>49156177 said. I play them too, no Daemons, pure mono-god and they're largely expensive and mediocre as hell. I have often wished I never got into Chaos cause now I have 3K worth of converted and painted models I don't have fun playing and are only a source of frustration and guilt.

>>49156217
How many factions does 40k have? Imperium and Other? That seems like 2 to me as well.

>>49156217
>loyalist SM
>traitor SM
>black shields
>militias and cults
>mechanicum
>solar aux
2 factions?

>>49156256
The other split into several others.

>>49156272
Not by >>49156217 logic they don't.

How are tau auxiliaries?

>>49156237

What lists do you run? my base list for 1500 is 3 9 man squads 242ea Sorc 180 + ~500 pts of obliterators (Old Metal Staff Sorcs w/ ghosts from undead fantasy) Dino bots (Timmy / Jimmy / Mr. Fuzzums) or a bipedal defiler

>>49155533
Can I get some feedback on this please? My theme doesn't use big suits other than the Ghostkeel as a centerpiece, so I'm avoiding adding anything bigger than stealthsuits after this setup.

>>49156258
Technically, Loyalist and Traitor are the two factions in 30k, but >>49156217 is still being a reductionist.

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>>49156088
they're not common units and they're overshadowed (not to mention heavy support is crowded). while they're not the best they can do good work and i love the models so i use them

i still need to do the slaanesh formations because 5d6 hammer of wrath from a single exalted chariot sounds amazing. a full unit on the charge would do anywhere from 15 to 150 attacks on the charge which should be enough to make even draigo blink

>>49155354
But what if I don't want to play a fandex wank game?

>>49156321
I usually run a Termie Sorc, DP with black mace, 2 8-man Rubric squads, terminators with land raider and 2 Forgefiends. Recently I'm considering fielding a maulerfiend instead of a forge and taking out some points to include a cyclopia cabal. Expensive shit but hasn't played badly.

I'd recommend you remove the Oblits. Speaking for myself, they have always let me down, while the fiends are a lot better in comparison. You could stand to add a cabal yourself, maybe with some spawn meatshields. I generally win games against marines, IG and GK closely, but they all play quite casually.

>>49156237
See, that is my issue. I own ever Cryx model released to date...ain't painted shit...but I own them.
REALLY wanna avoid that sorta bullshit again, but Thousand Sons are so pretty.

>>49156200
We joked about Necrons colored like Thousand Sons, but I just don't know if I can buy and paint noobcrons

>>49156410
>but Thousand Sons are so pretty.
Lawdy I know that feel. Get some and do them up as showpiece models. Don't play them. Not yet. Save yourself, my brother...

Anyone got a good place to buy cheap plasticard?

>>49156106
It's a big difference between a Bloodthirster and a Herald.

Rage's axe is nice but he is a bit too easily killed by the sort of units you would want him to use the axe against.

Fury's high initiative makes him a better choice against units that stand a chance of hurting him, but he still sucks against walkers because his strength isn't really high enough. (He is great is you bring some allied psykers and turn him invisible, but Khorne wouldn't approve)

Wrath is probably my favourite despite being the most expensive.
The ability to fly around hitting stuff with the whip is the most threatening thing in the codex versus flyers.

>>49156377
Then don't, dumbass.

GW's Kill Team rules are shit. This new release is a joke. The Heralds of Ruin fandexes and community are crap, but it's better than GW's.

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>>49156434
I suppose I can just start buying things like HQ and HEAVY, really put some time into them and see what happens.
>pic for attention

>>49156347

Deliberate exaggeration: Generally all anyone plays is marines or admech.

>>49155533
Looks like fun Shas'la.

>>49156395

Haven't played since may so I never got a chance to use BL Cabal. I like the oblits as they are good anti everything and tend to do work when things are in range.

I also like my maulerfiend (Mr. Fuzzums) when he isn't immobolized or dead.

I would like to drop the daemon engines though and move to full Rubrics and dreads/tanks but FW isn't making the Rubric Boxnaught anymore so that plan is kinda in the shitter now.

>>49156500
You say marines like that's one army in 30k. I understand you have a thing against 30k, but you don't need to delude yourself.

>>49156534
hes just some butthurt eldar faggot whos mad he cant spread his cancer in 30k

those are the only 'people' i ever see whining about 30k

>>49156200
>Don't even bother tier: Orks, Tyranids, Chaos Marines, possibly Dark Eldar.
>Chaos marines here
>Doubting dark eldars belong here
CSM are low middle tier you faggot.

>>49156477
>(He is great is you bring some allied psykers and turn him invisible, but Khorne wouldn't approve)

shit, i love sorcerers. you're talking about the csm dex? you're gonna have to specify what exactly you mean, i'm new and know only my own dex

>>49156534

Mm, I didn't say I have a thing against it, I just wouldn't be able to stand even more marine proliferation.

I get enough overexposure to power armour in the regular game without stripping most of the factions out.

>>49156543
Ah gotcha. Poor guy.

>>49156544

CSM are okay with heavy reliance on allies and forge world. Without those, you're running one of a narrow handful of builds to even try to keep up.

>>49156588
I assume the Forge World reference are the super big toys, I didn't see much for troops.
Suppose I could go check again tho.

>>49156550
In the Lore, Khorne hates magic and tricks, thus he hates Psykers.

Any one played this yet? Worth picking up the rules?
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Warhammer-40000-Kill-Team-ENG

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>>49156482
TS have really fun conversion potential. As the pic shows: use Tomb Kings for conversions. I use a ton of their range in mine and they look dope. I use pic related with a pair of great eagle wings as my DP.

>>49156505
Yeah? Is it decent? I wanted to play very tactically. Lots of Outflank and homing beacon to help maybe a deep strike. I attach fireblade to the big Strike team, Shadowsun/commander/marker drones for bs% and mutual sharing of stealth/shrouded and Darkstrider with Rail Riflers.

I hope I have enough anti-tank.

>>49156525
Well, as you prefer. Just personal experience is all. Cabal is useful though you should keep them unmarked as you'll only gimp yourself (6++ is pointless, Tzeentch discipline is shit and you'll need to pay a premium for more mastery to be able to roll on basic tables).

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>>49155294
>most Taufags are Taufags because they don't actually like the rest of 40k.

Most of the player base that doesnt play tau wouldn't mind if the tau just disappeared.

>>49156636
>Tomb Kings
Never5get

>>49156622
The rules are floating around online. The box set is just a unit of Tacticals and a unit of Firewarriors. Decently priced if you want both of those units.

>>49156636
Honestly, I am fighting the urge to make a Pyramid styled drop pod, but that seems awful lol
So much flavor and potential tho, seems wasted on a really struggling faction

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I've played a lot of Dark heresy, but I'm just now looking at the books for Black Crusade. It looks pretty fun, especially the Alpha Legion archetype.

Can anyone tell me about your experiences with Black Crusade, what kinds of campaigns have been fun or not so fun?

>>49155545
I'm more mad I can't run BRRRTTTTT gatling gunner squads of assault cannons

>>49156544
Dark Eldar are better than Chaos Space Marines.

>>49156683
A pyramid seems too corny, honestly. But Why not do some sort of egyptian-styled warp rift for drop pods? Fluff-wise it just kindof materializes out of thin air, torn through the fabric of reality.

>>49156550
You could go with CSM Sorcerers, butkeeping them within range of your Bloodthirster can be tricky if you don't put them on bikes.

The Black Legion supplement provides a formation of 3-5 without the need for any extra units. (Cyclopia Cabal)
But it is possible to roll over and over and still not get psykic powers you want.

Belakor is nice because he gets all the powers from the Telepathy discipline automatically, but at 350 points plus the unit of troops you need to take him in a bound army. he's not a cheap option.

As well as the Invisibility power (6s to hit affected unit), Shrouding is good for providing a 2+ jink save to Belakor and the Bloodthirster if he is within 6".

>>49156544
How? One underpriced LoW, and ability to take the warp storm table away from Daemons doesn't make them good.

Are Guevasa auxiliaries only good for back field objective holding? 25 points for 6 guys is a steal

>>49054801

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>>49156725
We did joke about a warp gate for a good day or two locally..

>>49156636

>Cabal is useful though you should keep them unmarked
ya that will be a problem. Everything needs MoT and VotLW. I'm neurotic about that and everyone at my old store gave up on trying to convince me otherwise.

On the Upside, that is 3-5 more chances at Boon!

Ya boons!

>>49156700
Might want to ask in the 40k Roleplay general.

>>49156780
I was anal as fuck about it too bro, but there is no way you'll have the points to make them worthwhile. You're going to end up with ineffectual sorcerers that are FAR too expensive.

I run mine with bikes and ML2 with spell familiars. they perform rather decently. They are still 375 points. If you want to run them that way for autism reasons, I completely understand you, but resign yourself to them never making their points back and disappointing you every chance they get. Just telling you the truth.

>>49156774
I didn't even think of that, but it's a fucking awesome idea. God I wish I had one of those horus helmets the guards in the first movie wore.

>>49155912
>At the end of the day, I don't remember reading any anti lgbt imperial stuff,

Sounds like a slaneshi cultist to me.

>>49156636
>tfw 5 boxes of Necropolis Knights and I can't convince myself to sell them
Wish I could come up with a use in 40K but they are so fucking big

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>>49156780
>tfw ur chaos lord turns into a spawn and you dont bother owning a shitty chaos spawn model so he just fucking dies, giving up warlord
chip kelly...

>>49156857
I bet they would be super easy to model in sculpy. It's a major prop so you can find reference charts all over the web...damnit, now I wanna make a Stargate themed Thousand Sons setup

>>49155533
>>49156340
>Optimised Stealth Cadre.
I hope your friends don't use transports or are otherwise vehicle heavy. Otherwise you won't have friends for long. Tau dominate casual settings with even the shittiest list, so I hope you share your list with your bros so they can have at least half a fighting chance.

>>49156880
You could turn 1 into a DP but if they're as big as a helbrute or something you can't make them bikers..

>>49155517
Thanks for the responses guys. Seems like I am in for another oh god why release

>>49156894

I've had the helbrute leader from the 5man pack get spawned. That shit was hilarious.

>>49156894
spawn are amazing anon, have you looked at their profile?

Can you be a competitive SW player without using thunderwolf cavalry?

They are the stupidest models I have ever seen and I cannot bring myself to buy them.

>>49156700
>Fighting plague marines that boarded our ship
>T-Son sorcerer perils and summons a LoC
>Our DM doesn't really know what to do so he just has the Nurgle followers banished to the Warp and the half the crew transform into Spawn before fucking off and leaving our ship adrift


>>49156919
As tall as a Helbrute and longer than a Rhino

>>49156914
Not the same guy, but that formation allows you to bring a stealth marker teams and the ghostkeel for whatever you need it to do. The anti tank/ignores cover is a bonus, but isn't necessary. Tau already remove cover saves, and have more meltas then most sisters armies.

>>49156567
Huh sounds like you have something against it.

>>49156914
My friend runs a vehicle-heavy Black Templars list where most of his vehicles are the same AV all around. The reason I'm taking this is because I have very little flier protection (he fields stormtalons) and I could really use the ignores cover to take them out. The stealthsuits won't stick around the Ghostkeel much though, they have their own objectives. Taking the Cadre actually gives me a fighting chance since he plays very aggressively and fields 2 land raiders he rams into my infantry and disgorges angry CC templars.

And yes of course, we share our lists constantly.

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>>49155322
My cat would not praise the emperor. He'd probably bite his one good arm when he got bored.

>>49156904
Maybe make one for carnival..

>>49156950
Jesus, that huge? I'd just keep 1 box, turn 1 into a DP and the other 2 into a diorama and sell the rest.

>>49156933
you also have wulfen, wolf lords, wolf gun ship, frost weapons, your wolfcurion, and something else i'm forgetting.

>>49156933
Sure can. I know there's some formations that make other things work pretty well, but ignore them:
Drop pod grey hunters are pretty great
Long fangs are still useful
Lone wolves with TH/SS are just too good to not take
The rune priest formation is a lot of fun
Your flier is quite good
SS dreads are quite hard to get rid of for many players
And you have all the other marine standard stuffs, so you don't need to wolf while you wolf.

Army wide counter attack is quite good after all
BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK

>>49156958
Ah I see. That doesn't sound too bad then. My local meta is absolutely fucked with crisis and riptide spam so I get a little nervous for people on the receiving end.

>>49156933
spamming wulfen is probably OP as fuck

too bad they look even worse than TWC

>>49156482
Very nice. Difficult to pull of these days after tk not discontinued

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>>49155545
>Still can't upgrade vets with hot-shots
>Don't want to use the garbage three unit Scion codex
>Sergeants cant just fuck off and carry a rifle like a normal human being
Playing Harakoni is suffering

>>49156933
Playing space yiffs and not being down with the Wolfing of the world Wolf?
What are you, some kind of faggot?

>>49157030
>Playing Harakoni is suffering
2bh the stupid scion codex would probably be ideal for proxying as harakoni

>>49157018
Oh no, I never want to put anyone through that shit myself. besides, I don't even like the look of the Riptide and Crisis suits past my commander don't fit my theme (he only fits because he shares Shadowsun's stealthfields, so can be sneakier. For a big bipedal mechsuit at least.

the Stormtalons would be a right bitch to mark without the cadre bonus as the only flier-approved markerlight I have is the remora. I have plenty of ground forces that need the comparatively few I'm bringing.

The stuff he's bringing that doesn't have the same AV all around are like.. razorbacks anyway, AV11/10 is easily poppable even by Fire Warriors, so I don't really think it's OP.

>>49156923
top kek.
>>49156930
not compared to a chaos lord

>>49157030
Well, scions get AP 3 and Valkyries, which is pretty much what you want.

Could also run D-99 and spam special weapons squads.

Sadly there's no grav-gliders for you anywhere. Maybe you could use Rough Rider rules or something.

>>49155912
Anti chaos
Anti slaanesh
Anti lgbti

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Played a 4000 v 4000 IG and DA with some Mechanicum against Tau and Raven Guard. Me and my Guard bro won but what have you been playing /tg/?

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>Easy fixes to make your CSM stand a chance

Start with taking 5 points of the base cost of every squad with a Champion in it, with the exception of Chaos Havoks.

Cultist Champions may upgrade to Rouge Witches, gaining Psyker 1 and losing 1 attack and LD, for 20 points.

Give Forgefiends and Maulerfiends a "Quadruped" rule that lets them re-roll immobilization results.

Havok Champions have a piece of Wargear called Occulum Mors. It lets his unit fire at full ballistic skill, when normally they would be snap shooting, once per game.

Rhinos and Land Raiders may take vehicle wargear, called Warp Rifts, that allows units to enter from reserves from the vehicle, as though they were disembarking; effected by Assault Vehicle, and similar rules.
The vehicle cannot actually transport units if this upgrade is purchased.
25 points.

While we're on vehicle wargear, Daemonic Possession doesn't eat models on a 6, but you can sacrifice one model inside during the movement phase to restore a hull point.

Raptors down to 16 per model.
Warp Talons down to 27 per model.
Possessed down to 23 per model.
Terminators down to 29 per model.
Khorne Berzerkers down to 18 per model.
Thousand Sons down to 22 per model.
Warpsmiths down to 100.
Dark Apostles down to 90.
Chaos Lord down to 60.
Daemon Princes down to 140.

VotLW grants Hatred (Imperials) instead of Hatred (Space Marines).
Icons of Vengence go down in price by 5 across the board, to a minimum of 5.
Terminators are Fearless.

>>49156985
>>49157027
I have not built my army yet but wulfen are also on my no buy list.

>>49156992
I was thinking of just spamming grey hunters, a couple long fang squads, a couple grey hunters, logan/ragnar and a couple termie squads and whatever vehicles I decide I want

>>49155831
Yikes! That's the kind of thing even commissars run away from!

Wait...what are the berzerker's stats again? God its been so long since I've even seen a chaos player! I miss fighting giant enemy crabs with battle tanks.

>>49157137
>Raptors
Just take away the extra attack on the sarge and make it an optional upgrade like normal Marines. That way they can choose where to put those 10 points, and like any sane person they won't bother upgrading the sarge.

>>49157030
Dude scions are elite choices in the Guard codex.

>>49155294
There's no anti-/lgbt/ stuff in the Imperium. So long as you're a/an untainted/sanctioned human/abhuman you can do whatever so long as you can work. Even in the books there's lesbian Valhallan's in the Ciaphas Cain series.

>>49157167
Oh hush you. If you ask me, you should make the sarges mandatory and give them CWE/Skitarii treatment and make then 2w. That actually makes them way more "epic"-feeling and thats a very good thing.

>>49157137
>Khorne Berzerkers down to 18 per model.
a 1 point decrease isnt going to fix them

pretty much everything in the book needs to be like 1/4th less points, or needs a stateline/special rules buff.
>>49157165
they are worse than death company, which is bullshit.

WS 5, normal marine statline, 1 fucking attack base, CCW, bolt pistol, hatred, counter attack, furious charge. can buy chainaxes but they suck balls and are overcosted, only the champion can actually buy good melee weapons. 19 points each base

>>49157107
i'll have to give them another try sometime, most of the time my lords died like punks. i still need to get around to making a khorne lord on jugger, slaanesh lord on boob snake, and a lord on disc

>>49156728
I feel like all signs point to me just playing Daemons because making cool or fun shit work with anything CSM related is annoying

I need some 40k themed cocktails or other drinks. Any suggestions?

>>49156063
>the Autocannon on the CSM Havoc kit is an M60,

It's more like a 20mm cannon, really.
But the point is I WANT Heavy Stubber teams.

>>49157133
Hopefully I can finish the rest of my guys for a game tommorow. How did you game go?

>>49157255
>Khorne Berzerkers down to 18 per model.
I said quick and easy fixes, not the whole new codex worth of shit they need.
What they need is for their mandatory leaders to be fucking swole, like >>49157213 so Champion of Chaos feels like it matters (In addition to viable anti-flyers, better ways to get to melee, an entire re-evaluation of the codex's prices, ect.) but that's more than a 2000 character limit.

>>49157133
Holy fuck stop playing apocalypse games and fuck PAINT your models

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Guardsmen killed a full unit of firewarriors in close combat except the one. Never knew how trash FW are in melee.

Drop Pods aren't fliers right?
So I could TECHNICALLY take them in Kill Team and just deploy them as defensive turrets (since deepstrike counts as deploy regular in this.)

Right?

>>49157379
i have never seen a fully painted tau army, unless it was some lazy 3 color minimum. true story

>>49157392
I guess. I feel like a Land Speeder would be a better choice.

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>>49157030
>take a Tempestus CAD alongside an Astra CAD
>or just take Scions as elites

>>49157392
no deep striking in kill team

>>49157395
I saw some at a tournament once that looms pretty good (all 5 riptides of it)

>>49157030
>I want to play dudes in carapace using hotshot lasguns
>what? fuck off no I don't want to play the shitty stormtrooper codex
harakoni warhawks use lasguns, anyways

play elysians you fucking tard

>>49157379
Dude I was the Guard. I painted my models. I demand an apology sir.

>>49157357
Just slap names onto pre-existing cocktail recipes.

The Emperor's Blessing/Light
Warp Magick
Nurgle's Rot
Blood for the Blood God

C'mon dude, this isn't exactly hard.

>>49157060
That context is very important. Taking a formation that can hit rear armor from any angle would IG player slap you out of shear principle. How does that even work? Nothing in the OSC says anything to justify hitting a Leman Russ's engine from the front!

>>49157401
For giggles? Thematic?

>>49157412
You didn't read my post at all did you?
>(since deepstrike counts as deploy regular in this).

And I quote:

You’re on Your Own: [...] Models cannot enter Ongoing Reserve by any means. If any models in your Kill Team can normally only be deployed via Deep Strike, simply deploy them along with the rest of your army.

Do you think the skittarii dunewalker tank would make a suitable renegades and heretics dark mecuanicus leman Russ proxy?

Also kataphrons proxied as rapiers

>>49157366
Well pretty good my Guardsmen charged and killed most of a unit of Firewarriors. And my Deathwing got some good charges off. They killed a full stealth time,some Vanguard and a captain too. And Vanquisher killed a Dreadnought finally getting an explode result too. It was a lot of fun

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>>49157389
>Never knew how trash FW are in melee
Really mate? Their fluff is always talking about that as an issue, their whole armies' theme is ranged firepower. The bonding blades they carry are specifically described as ritual weapons, a last resort only, and that's why the Farsight enclave is such an anomaly.

>>49157485
Aren't drop pods AV12 all around? Tell me anon, what's 12+12+12=?
Hint: Its more than 33 you stupid loyalist faggot

>>49157392
Since when have Drop Pods had a combined AV less than 34?

>>49157485
i can honestly say i haven't been paying attention to much over the past week, i should sleep or maybe i shouldn't sleep so much.

anyway, drop pods aren't good for that game (sub game?)

>>49157521
Fuck. Wasn't thinking about the armor bit...

>>49157328
A pure Daemon army is fun and being able to give AP 2 melee weapons that strike at initiative to your characters is one of the few cost effective ways of dealing with stuff like Terminators for any of the Chaos factions..

But the warp storm table can be annoying enough that I usually bring a CSM or Khorne detachment simply to be able to ignore it.

I recommend reading each of the codices before making a decision.

>>49157255
>Berserkers only get 2 attacks in melee

Okay, THAT's stupid. A Guardmen Sarge gets 3 attacks in melee but a guy called a 'berserker' only gets 2? I'm fine with marine toughness and initiative, but 1 base attack? Silly!

>>49157574
They'll get three on the charge from CCW.

Is it me or Tyranids and Orks are going to dominate Kill Team?

>>49157574
>only
they get four on the turn they charge
three if they get charged

berserkers being reliant on the momentum of the charge to win fights is one of the more interesting changes of an otherwise bland book

Their main problem is they're expensive and have no decent transport. Chainaxes and plasma pistols are also pretty shit in comparison to other units (like crusaders, or grey hunters) being able to add in power weapons or fists.

>>49157574
yeah.

they have rage and counter attack and furious though, they only have hatred (SM) if you buy VoTLW

compared to death company its hilariously sad. for 1 more point death company lose -1 WS, get 2 attacks base with FNP, relentless, rage, furious charge and more importantly the ability to mix in good melee weapons.

>>49157523
Don't you mean 33?

Because if its 34 now then HURRAY I CAN TAKE HELLHOUNDS!

>>49157626
>berserkers being reliant on the momentum of the charge to win fights is one of the more interesting changes of an otherwise bland book
What? It fucking sucks. It means that Berzkerers are only even remotely dangerous on the turn that they get to charge, and even then they aren't that good.

>>49157523
>>49157640
Still 33. Looking at my epub copy now.

>>49157640
More than 33 and less than 34 mean the same thing.

>>49157574
>>49157597
Technically they always get 4 because
1 base+ 1ccw/pistol+ rage/counter attack
A squad of 10 gets 41 WS5 S4 AP- attacks on the charge or when being charged, plus they always have to issue and accept challenges, I have had success with them with the only real issue being that chaos is stuck with the shit landraiders so it's very hard to get them to combat

>>49157692
Counter attack only gives 1 attack not two.

>>49157692
>they always get 4 because
Unless you are charging a unit with defensive grenades.
Or multiassaulting.
Or the one being charged.

>>49157692
Rage only procs if you charge. They only get 3 when charged.

Berzerkers are fucked for a variety of reasons. Too expensive for melee MEQ's, too reliant on the charge despite being slow infantry, utterly gutted by Disordered Charges, no good assault vehicles, shit options.

>>49157616
It'll be a change from the regular 40K.

>>49157616
It's just you. As has been said, Scatbikes still exist. Also, does anyone have a link to the bloody Kill Team rules yet?

>>49157616
Renegades and Heretics here.

I'm going to have FUN.

>>49157616
hopefully

imagine how much more exciting the 40k meta would be if huge hordes of orks and nids were the top tier, and big gas ass 'not vehicles' werent the top dog.

it would actually feel like the fluff

>>49157666
Could you post your epub copy?

>>49157616
Break tests ruin them pretty hard.

>>49157830
EPUB3 has DRM hidden in it. My personal purchase information is embedded.

It's only $9.99 man, not that bad, just one or two meals. I bought it because no good pirate sources + cheap.

I can help you with any base rules though.

>>49157810
Disciples, mutants, regular platoons?

Can chaos spawn be used in kill team?

Plague zombies would be interesting as well

>>49157665
>and even then they aren't that good
Four WS5 S5 attacks per dude ain't bad, dude. If you could take even just a handful of special melee weapons they'd be a pretty solid unit, though entirely reliant on having a good delivery system.

they're just too expensive, unnecessarily limited in terms of weapon options, and have no good way to get up the field beyond overpaying for (surprisingly fragile these days) land-raiders. The stats and special rules ain't what makes berserkers bad.

>>49157851
Cool. Besides the slight variation in specialist categories and minor rules exemptions like the psyker thing, are there any noteworthy changes from the 6th Edition version?

What's a good load out for anti vehicle and anti infantry xv8s? Gun drones

>>49157885
>If you could take even just a handful of special melee weapons they'd be a pretty solid unit,
yeah thats the main ball breaker

they would still be overcosted though, since death company are basically just improved berzerkers + FNP, and even they arent considered good.

Kill Team Organisation Chart:

0-2 Troops.
0-1 Elite.
0-1 Fast Attack

-You need at least 4 miniatures. 1 will be the leader (with a random trait). 3 specialists each with one chosen rule.
-Units can't have more than 3 hit points/wounds (vehicles and normal units).
-None can have +2 armour.
-Total Armour for vehicles (Frontal+Side+Rear) can't be superior to 33.
-No flyers.

>>49157937
especially since they tease you with the champion

five S9 attacks on the charge are something quite beautiful

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This Inquisition codex is so fucking lazy goddamn.
>Priest can't even take a flamer

>Looking at his IG collection
Huh, these tanks' hull mounts have just the right height to fire over a guardsman's head. Does that mean you can have guardsmen in front of your tank without giving enemies a cover save?
>Checks book
It DOES! But the guardsmen still technically count as intervening models. Doesn't that mean that guardsmen count as a one-way 5+ cover wall against enemy units? That could seem a little cheesy.

Are the KT new rules already out? Anyone has leaked the pdf already? i tried to check OP links but there's only the old version.

>>49157996
priest model is pretty old and hasn't been updated in years; and the inquisition codex was a rush job

>>49158024
yes and thats what guardsmen are basically supposed to be, a meat wall to save your tanks.

its called 'bubble wrapping' your tanks

Will orks ever get better or should I ebay them

>>49157616
they don't dominate. but it is good and viable to do the "spam the board with 20 models" tactic with nids and orks
bikes with scatter lasers as well as units with disproportionately high numbers of shots (for example, vanguard) are decent against them, and quality is quantity in KT and vice versa

>>49157885
>Four WS5 S5 attacks per dude ain't bad, dude
It ain't good either, brah. You ever seen what happens when Berzerkers charge into Space Mariens or any other hard target? They inflict decent damage on the charge, and then they revert to slapping each other with foam noodles.

>>49158024
>using greentext for action emotes
>using action emotes

I'd tell you to go back to whichever forum you crawled form, but you should probably just KYS.

>>49157255
>>49157574
>>49157626
>>49157638
>>49157665
>>49157692
>>49157885
>>49157937
Know what's even worse about berserkers? The only benefit they have over Marked and Icon'd CSM is WS5 and Fearless. The latter's 100% irrelevant if you use them as the retinue for a challenge lord/Kharn. You're also going to always buy Icons for both units to reroll charge range, so inbuilt FC is irrelevant.

Khorne Marked/Icon'd Chosen are a couple of points more, and far better.

>>49158057
After 10 thousand years of war grandpa is only good for one big shove then the steam goes out of him and needs to take a breather

>>49157970

Also game is limited to 200 points.

I've got two questions that've been bugging me for a while, I've looked everywhere in the current lore and found nothing.

First: What Happens if a Daemon is killed in The Warp? I mean Kaldor's been fucking around in there for however long killing Daemons, so do they just come back or are they permanent-dead?

And secondly, can a Chaos God actually be killed, or more to the point do the Gods have actual forms? You see pictures everywhere but is that actually them? But I guess they can't leave the Warp so physical form isn't quite the same, but nonetheless do they have form enough to be killed?

Fluffwise, who are the oldest characters who aren't Khârn, seeing as he was a Terran legionnary?

>>49158057
Chain axes should have been rending.

>>49157970
Are beasts still limited to being unable to be specialists?

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im about to pull the trigger on ~$200 of models to start my first army. its gonna be about 500 points to start and i'll build it up to 1000
kinda wanna do mono tzeentch or nurgle demons. convince me to do one or the either /tg/. or neither

>>49158105

Beasts and swarms can't be specialist or leaders.

>>49158065
>inbuilt FC is irrelevant
until your icon gets sniped out

chosen are still better because they have real weapons, but protecting icons is a fucking chore

>>49158119
Sweet no cron wraiths then.

>>49158126
I've never had an Icon sniped out unless the unit gets wiped-- Are you playing against a shitload of barrage or something?

>>49158095
1. all that draigo does in the warp means null

2. not per se, it might be possible to starve them of faith/worship to decrease their power. they don't have a physical form like the eldar gods do.

...i vaguely recall that slaanesh or the emperor's children were given a really strong psyker to let a daemon possess her/him and maybe it was slaanesh? but idk what the source is or if i'm making it up

>>49158100
abaddon

any of the demon primarchs

>>49158100
the emperor
eldrad
the phoenix lords
bjorn
ahriman

I know typhus wasn't a terran legionnaire, but I forget if the other chaos characters were.

>>49158111
If you're set on Daemons then do Tzeentch, better models and cooler fluff. If you aren't set on Daemons then I'd recommend Deathwatch, Imperium has the best Allies and low Model Count with high customization means painting isn't a problem. Plus they play pretty well on the table and can do shooty and stabby well.

>>49158142
and snipers

casual metas are funky

>>49157933

Ion + Fusion. Ion is one of the most versatile weapons and synergies well with the short-range fusion. It is suited for dealing with lightly armoured vehicles without compromising anti-infantry firepower. Fusion is ideal to deal with every vehicle.

Still, you should want a squad plasma specialist for dealing with heavy infantry.

>>49158149
I dunno about that, I assume we're discounting Gods of any sort but still Necrons are older than most everyone.

Rate my kill team list:

5 disciples with autocannon, plasma gun.

30 mutants (could take 30 platoon guys as well I guess)

Salamander with heavy bolters and flamer

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>>49157893
Honestly I haven't played 6th Ed KT in so fucking long...

I mean, your KT Detatchment is the usual shit of:
0-2 Troops
0-1 Elites
0-1 Fast

- At least 4 models must not be a vehicle.
- One model is chosen to be a leader who isn't a vehicle (details next chunk)
- No models with more than 3 wounds or Hull Points may be taken
- No vehicles over 33 Armor
- No fliers
- No 2+ armor saves (no terminators)

Leader: Has a D6 leadership table:
1: cunning ruse, D3+2 non vehicle models have Outflank
2: Quick Thinker: KT grabs Initiative on 4+
3: Chasing Promotion: +1 VP if leader kills leader in challenge
4: Leader Command Range at 12'' instead of 6''
5: Been there, Seen it, Done it: Select a rule for your leader from Specialist (can't be a duplicate of another specialist)
6: Unshakeable Dedication to Duty: Leader has Zealot special rule

Specialists (3 of them) have some options. There are different types of specialists. Combat, Weapon, Dirty Fighter, Indomitable, and Guerilla.

No specialist may choose the same type. IE: You can't have two dirty fighters.... and each type of specialist has a set of rules they can pick... for example.

Guerilla Specialist can pick from the BRB: Fleet, Hit & Run, Infiltrate, MTCover, Night Vis, Pref Enemy, Scout, Stealth... OR.... a special item from the KT Rule Book: Promethium Charges (assault grenades, with no cover saves.)

So unlike in 6th, where I could have taken Fleet + H&R + Infiltrate for example on 3 specialists? In this, only one has an option of those three... Get my drift?

>>49158111
Nurgle have a get started boxset so you can save $$$

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A rare pic of termies being effective. Take a nice long look lads it usually never happens.

>>49158167
Well, fair enough, but that still doesn't change that Mark/Icon'd CSM are hugely better. You save something like 6 ppm.

>>49156765
Legally, they can only be fielded during a Taros campaign.

>>49158166
im not really into imperium
>>49158208
how good are plague drones?

>>49158185
necrons don't count because they're all deeeeeaaaad (though I guess that also discounts eldrad)

Would Skitarii Gue'vesa make sense. Are techpriests in the Tau Empire?

>>49158225
They are certainly big, and you have the bonus you can use them in age of sigmar like all daemons. I heard they are good on the table too but don't quote me on that

>>49157030
>That image
The numbers that they die in, they should have a dumptruck full of tags.

>>49158111
mono tzeentch. burning chariot, box of pink horrors or 2, maybe some flamers or screamers, then lord of change/fateweaver

>>49158255
>loc/fateweaver

any reason why those over a daemon prince

Kill Team Scenario.

-Night fighting
-One has to defend the line, the other reach it and leave the battlefield.
-Attacking gets a point for each miniature that leaves the battlefield in this way.
-Can't outflank.
-Can't use turbo.

How do you deal with this scenario?

>>49158297
probably by killing myself if i'm on defense

>>49158221
Fuck

>>49158297
Should probably restrict anything that moves over 6", otherwise it's gonna be bikes and vehicles all day.

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>>49158271
t6, lv2 base, wings, can make daemon princes heavy support. princes are more like swiss army knives but the lord of change (and most greater daemons) are the work horse

honestly they're pretty similar

>>49158297

I forgot. Defending one gets 1 point for every three killed enemies.

>>49158297
>form a tight line
>engage in c/c anyone who gets too close
>shoot everythibg else
>pray
Mobi/epub sharing when? im really eager to see the new rules.

>>49158297

Lots of terrain and choke points.

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>>49158297
Can I bring Barbed Wire?

>>49158297
good luck getting through 66 conscripts

>Recharging Energy.

All members of the Killteam get Tank Hunters. The other player gets a single Superheavy Vehicle/Walker. The Superheavy can't move or fire (recharging batteries) for a couple of turns.

>>49157133
I tried out my 'Semi-Casual' raptors CAD twice today at a Geedubs. The list was something like this, but I don't remember the precise details.

> Captain Valentine(Deredeo with AC, Missiles, and War on Murder)
> Chapter Master Lias Issodon
> 5-man Honour Guard(with Chapter Champion Adamska)
> 5-man Scout Squad, Bolters, Cloaks, Heavy Bolters
> 10-man Tactical Squad, with a Rhino, probably had a plasma gun
> 5-man tactical squad, Flamer, Veteran Sergeant Solidus
> 5-man tactical squad, melta gun.

First game was against all-nurgle chaos, second game was against deathstar space wolves. My game plan was to start the board with only Valentine on the board. EVERYTHING else waited off the table, so I can decide after my opponent deploys to either outflank, or infiltrate. It's essentially Outflanking MSU from hell.

Anyway, the highlight of my games was Veteran Sergeant Solidus, equipped ONLY with a knfie, managing to kill a mutilator in melee, and wound another one, before retreating. So a veteran sergeant with a BOLTER and a KNIFE, killing terminators.

After this I decided to promote Solidus to Company Champion, and rewarded him with a Power Knife, and his own command squad. We presumed that he broke his old knife gouging out the bulletproof glass eye sockets of freakin' terminators.

Do models in a unit with a Brotherhood model in it contribute warp charges?

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>>49157133
Just got back from a big Apoc game with 7 other people with my Mechanicus.
Me and one of the Necron players were the only ones with any significant number of models left on the table at the end.

>>49157515
But still they got beaten BY FUCKING GUARDSMEN. And fun fact that game didn't shoot one lasgun. It was all charging or flamers for the most part.

>>49158537
I like how the caliver is firing out of the handguard.

>>49158533
no unless you're pink horrors. 10 grey knight terminators are the same (psyically) as 1 grey knight terminator

>>49158545
how are you not aware that tau are terrible at fighting? it's not a meme; it's their defining weakness they're ws2 and even their trained professionals in crisis suits or riptides are ws3

>>49158576
I think that's an Arc Rifle.

>>49158602
Oh right. Point still stands though as arc rifles still fire out the front face.

>>49158533
Maybe

>>49158225
That's cool, Imperium's not for everyone (but you're still a fucking heretic). I still recommend Tzeentch since I find it more interesting, but Nurgle works better with others. Khorne does a really great hammer and anvil and Slannesh can make great sustained assaults. By itself Nurgle's still good, too. Just go with what you like best

>>49158595
Most people don't bring Fire Warriors that's why. And I've swept whole units of pathfinders with just bikes but it's amazing to actually be hitting on 3s and wounding on 4s in close combat. And hey to be fair as well my opponent usually always spams suits with Farsight in a death star unit so I'm always getting eviscerated in melee.

>>49158297
i bring nothing but jetbikes then fly them all over you and off in 1 turn :^)

>>49158537
He's still holding that pose after ten thousand years

>>49158545
>ws2

Is not that all that significant vs Guardsmen. They have more or less the same statline.

>>49158702
Tau FW also has I2, so they strike after the Guardsmen. You're still right though, it's not THAT much of a difference.

>>49158101
Still would not be worth the points

how do I eldar without finecast?

Anybody by chance have a Crypt Ghoul (fantasy or aos) and could lemme know how tall/big it is in comparison to an average mini?
Gonna make a few arco-flagellants, hopefully from them, if they're not mega tiny.

>>49158744
Wraith-spam

>>49158702
>one hits on 3s
>the other hits on 5s

That seems like a pretty significant to me, anon.
Plus no Special close Combat weapons, and let us not forget they're i2

>>49158776
WS2 hits WS3 on fours.

>>49158776
>>49158730

>I2

One drone and they get I4.

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>>49158681
i have no pity for those that don't know the honor of cqc or have their basic troops ws5. also it's annoying fighting the tau in cqc sometimes like crisis suits, they might hit like wimps but they're still s5

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>>49155497
Best I could find

>>49158790
Oh sorry I was thinking S/T, my mistake.

The point still stands, Tau are not a melee race. Hell, they've got a fuckton of special rules that make it as hard as possible to charge them.

>>49158791
a single I4 attack, but the tau themselves still hit at I2

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>1k army of Space marines and dreadnoughts
>16 models total
>Go up against Mechanicus Army in a pickup game
>16 model army
>Everyone has haywire or grav
>Librarian kills 3 Kataphron Breachers in one round of combat
>Second librarian holds off 12 other kataphron breachers by himself for 4 combat phases before dying
>takes three other kataphron breachers with him

>>49158865

No. The whole team gets I4.

>>49158878
That's not how initiative works. They get some sweeping advance protection but that's it.

>>49158878
Fuck you I don't care.

>>49158878
And why does that matter? They can be i10 for all I care, WS2, S3, and 1 attack means they do jackshit against any proper melee unit, and even against a platoon of Conscripts its an even fight. Tau just aren't made for melee, that's their thing

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>>49158814
They also held down a RW Vanguard and Captain in close combat for a full turn only losing seven men. Then the Deathwing came and fisted everything to death.

still no KT epub/mobi /tg?
Anyone got his hands on it?
what are the changes?

Burna boyz in wagons, y/n?

>>49158971
Pretty hilarious the first time, but they become a target after that.

>>49158963
if it's limited to 200 points and no T6+ units again it's going to be shit

>>49158899

Ah, I got confused with Hit and Run.

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>>49158971
BURNA BOYZ IN DAKKAMOVAZ

WALL OF MARTYRS BUNKER. ESCAPE HATCH IN NO-MAN'S LAND. AV14 ALL AROUND TRANSPORTS, FOR 60 POINTS. TRANSPORTS UP TO 20 MODELS ACROSS THE BOARD.

BURNA BOYZ START IN GHETTO LAND RAIDER. DISEMBARK 18" FORWARD.
BURN FUCKING EVERYTHING ON TURN 1.

DAKKAMOVAZ

>>49158920

Naked Crisis are surprisingly cost-efficient non-specialised melee units. They are more or less Assault Marines.

>>49158738
Rending is pretty good on a model with 4 attacks when it charges.

>>49158963
Here ya go friendo,
https://mega.nz/#!TlkwQRiZ!asNUaMsOTb-vtQwqHaEaf8xFPvdCVqL47eZBWNPjLF0

Pro tip: use redium

>>49159022
hell riptides can smash attack and ID demon princes

tau arent even bad in melee, everything that they spam is a multiwound monster.

taufags just like to pretend that they have exploitable weaknesses so they feel like shiity about being blatant waacfags

>>49159004
T6+ means no Riptides which is good you fucker.

>>49159022
Eh, i2 is pretty sucky and WS2 means that their two attacks won't actually be doing much at all. They're decent tarpits and could deal with non-melee units decently, but are nowhere near Assualt Marine level. And Assualt Marines are ass

Orks are alright if you cheat and bring 25% more points than your opponent. Ive actually won a couple of games when I do this

>>49159004
so basically like the "old"one.
Wasn't so bad, incredibly fun when played without a cancerous WAAC approach.
>>49159063
Thank you my friend, here's your (you).

>>49159064
>i2
>ws2
>no good CWC weapons
>no good rules

I'm a Space Marine player and I hate Tau more than most, but come off of it- they're ass at melee. That's why it's gay as fuck about how hard it is to get in to combat with all the retarded rules they get

>>49159079

3 Crisis suits naked costs 66 points. More S, base attacks, double wound pool at the expense of lower In, WS, and lack of Hammer of Wrath. They are not melee specialists, but they can do the job against other non-specialists units.

>>49159065
not being able to take terminators or wraith guard in a kill team is retarded though

>>49159146
It's still a waste.
Even if they're expensive as all balls Hazard suits are the best melee suits the Tau have

>>49159079
It's not really that they're any good at close combat -- it's that close combat is so shit right now that being able to just hold your own in CC is good enough to get the job done 90% of the time.

What would it take to make CC good again? Assault out of deep strike? Some kind of nerf to overwatch? Changing the assault to-hit chart to make higher WS more valuable?

>>49159153
also I'm really going to enjoy taking 4 turns to walk my plaguebearers to the objective because they can't deep strike in kill team

>>49159153
>>49159065
>>49159004
>>49158963
Play. Fucking. Heralds. Of. Ruin. Geedubs kill-team is poorly written garbage. No specialized kill teams, no 30k kill teams, no necromunda kill teams, no grots or PROPER deathwatch. FUCK, I mean necrons literally can't even take anything but a single squad of warriors, it's so fucking poorly written.

I enjoyed heralds of ruin more than the geedubs KT, And I still do enjoy it for the customizability of your teams.

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>>49159153
>wraithguard

>>49159111
>no good CWC weapons
you mean except for all of their shit being S6 with ap2 and 3 attacks right? and the option to do 1 s10 ap2 smash to things.

not to mention its on a t6, 5 wound monster with a 2+ armor save, invuln, and FNP.

tau are not bad in melee

>>49159189

Take some Screamers. Monogod faggotry is gay and dead.

>>49159191

They could take Warriors and Scarabs, or Warriors and Flayed Ones, or Wraiths and Flayed Ones which is really all you need.

>>49159063
try to open it ith my kobo(e reader) and its like an unintelligible mess. Is it some sort of anti-piracy thing or is it simply my kobo that sucks?
I'm at my job's pc so I can't download files or install anything on it(downloaded the file directly on the kobo)

>>49159212
it seems to fuck up with a lot of ereaders. Readium on chrome works.

>>49159211
Can't take wraiths, as you can't have them be leaders or specialists and immortals are too expensive to take alongside.

>>49159256

You can take them. You only need non-beasts models for specialists/leaders slots. The rest of the team can be made of mooks.

>>49159242
guess i'll wait till i crash home then.
What does it changes from the previous version?
i'll play it anyway even if its the same old shitty version anyway. might be fun with friends. I can't enjoy 40k with big numbers with anyone lately, game became just too bad.

>>49159256

That's why you have Flayed Ones.

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>>49159276

>>49159191
>or PROPER deathwatch
Veterans are proper deathwatch, though? The new unit is basically just the old index astartes deathwatch with more options.

>>49159307
No, I meant proper deathwatch as in having a whole kill-team where every model is from a different chapter, and that actually fucking means something. Your dude with a heavy weapon is from the Iron Handsm, or an Imperial Fist. Your squad leader is an apothecary from the Red Scorpions. Your sternguard dude is from the Raptors, and your two assault marines are space wolves. Everyone's got a veteran statline, specialty ammunition, and per-model chapter tactics.

Standard deathwatch in geedubs kill-teams has none of that, and absolutely none of the customization. The whole game should be about YOUR DUDES.

I think Killteam should be closer to XCOM. Where is my Suppresing Fire, Smoke Grenades and Overwatch?

>>49159375

You can still Overwatch against assaults! =^)

>>49159350
calm down 1d4 anon and that sounds like a bigger clusterfuck

Hows this?

Kill Team with

Renegades & Heretics:
-Renegade Brute Ogryn
--Carapace Armour
--Dedicated to Slaanesh (Fleet)
**Specialist: Indomitable - Feel No Pain

-30 Renegade Infantry

Fleeting FNP Renegade Ogryn packaged behind 30 throw-aways. In Kill Team.

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>>49155337
I wish there was a better copy of this

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>>49158971
Burna Boyz in a Wagon next to Promethium pipes sitting on an objective

>>49159408
They only have to kill 15 dudes before they have to start taking Ld tests or be removed.

>>49159375
in second edition, with everything else fun

>>49159375
In Heralds of Ruin

> Suppressing Fire
Drop your ballistic skill by 1. Increase your number of shots by 1, and gain pinning.
> Smoke Grenades
Throw a large blast that can target friendlies. Models under the blast gain Shrouded for a turn. They're one use only grenades for 5 points.
> Overwatch
Everyone has supporting fire for up to 6". Tau get it up to 9"(used to be 12").

>>49159403
Except where it's not. Just mark your chapters by the shoulderpads, like you're supposed to do.

>>49159408
Rout test bait/10

Anyone with half a brain would realize your team is too fragile and ignore the ogryn so they can kill 15 cultists and force the route test on your ogryn's leadership. The ogryn in this case may be stupidly fast and killy, but he is only as tough as his shit leadership and backup.

>>49159452
heralds of ruin is good with bolt action turn order/activation