The Official MTG Snowstorm/Lore Thread

>>49088121
I leave you guys alone for ten minutes and you tie up one of the contests? What's that all about?

>>49088136
the angel and devil parallel is too good
you may have to tiebreaker it yourself

>>49088121
How goes recovering your Steam?

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>>49088121
Also

>>49088126
If it comes to a tie I'd give it to Laurela, Cala doesn't seem well suited to a stand up fight, while her opponent is an angel.

>>49088136
If that tie isn't broken in the next seven minutes, I will break it personally.

>>49088164
If you haven't voted, then vote.

>>49088155
It's back in my shitty hands. The time it was spent stolen is the only time my account has ever played CS:GO. Fucking Russians.

>>49088170
Already done, friendo. Time to expire.

>>49088164
Cala herself may not be up for a standup fight, but I bet she could swarm Laurela with summoned devils. Picture, if you will, a zerg rush.

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>>49087393
>>49088170
Time's up. I have elected to break the tie in the first battle via virtual coin flip in order to remain impartial. The flakes of this segment moving onto Round Two are as follows:

>Cala
>Emile
>Sydhar
>Inzhu

The next bunch of flakes are as follows, and I have no recommendations for disqualifications:

>Anastasia
https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/0Bwl7IuoVRkFxSGtOeUVMbkhzX2c

>Cadros
https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/0Bwl7IuoVRkFxeGNxV1lNa2g1eWc

>Iosha
https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/0Bwl7IuoVRkFxSUo2UzlsSjVtWkE

>Kathos
https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/0Bwl7IuoVRkFxRnJ6eklUd3IzV28

>Naran
https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/0Bwl7IuoVRkFxQXh2Nnphb3lFbEE

>Ussa
https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/0Bwl7IuoVRkFxTWVBMmQ0YUhkdTQ
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bwl7IuoVRkFxYXU5eG05bmtxR0k/view?usp=sharing

>Evantu
https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/0Bwl7IuoVRkFxTE5BSjVEU1FDa1U

>Tien Sheng
https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/0Bwl7IuoVRkFxREIyQjl5QU5mbU0

If I hear no recommendations for disqualification within the next 10 minutes, I will reveal the match-ups.

>>49088324
kathos gon get dunked on, poor guy. What is it with the money guys and just not having the brawn?
but for real, none seem up for disqualification.

>>49088324

Iosha has an interplanar ship which Graveborn proved isn't kosher post mending.
Naran is another "ignore the plot of DTK" flake

>>49088470
Just under the wire with that one, I almost started the match-ups.

Does anyone else want to weigh in on this?

>>49088470
isn't Iosha working on the lgoic that whatever venser was doing might have succeeded? IIRC, wizards hasn't given confirmation on that, but Koth seemed to think it would have. I mean, I'll support disqualifying graveborn because he breaks more than just that, but planar ships are still a subject of relevance in the story, they just haven't confirmed or denied anything about them yet.

>>49088500
While Iosha's ship is lore-breaking, she herself is not. If we just remove her ship from the equation and keep her artifice, she's perfectly kosher.

I'm not done reading Naran yet.

As a reminder, flakes are assumed to begin with no set-up and pre-summons when these battles begin.

>>49088500
Naran interacts a bit too closely with canon, for my taste. I'll leave it to your discretion.

>>49088545
That was suggested in the flake point, replace it with a bag of holding, but she chose to keep the airship in in her current section.

>>49088324
Having read the discussions, I think that we will be fine with no disqualifications. The match-ups are as follows:

>Anastasia VS Tien Sheng
>Ussa VS Cadros
>Evantu VS Iosha
>Kathos VS Naran

BEGIN DISCUSSION! POLLS WILL BE UP SHORTLY!

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>>49088609
Anastasia vs Tien Sheng is pic related
Ussa fucks Cadros into submission
Iosha wins
Kathos wins.

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>>49088324
Since we're in a new thread, I will re-post the rules of the Ice Age:

>During each round, flakes will be assigned to random opponents in single-elimination tournament fashion.
>Flakes will be treated as though they are all neowalkers in order to create a balance of power.
>Flakes with meme-levels of power will be treated as though they weren’t.
>Flakes that directly contradict lore, especially by going against or interacting inappropriately with canon characters, will be disqualified.
>Flakes that are joke or troll flakes will be disqualified. The use of silver-bordered cards in a flake’s preferred spell list automatically disqualifies them.

>During the first round, all flakes will be placed into the roster randomly. Flakes that are disqualified will give their random opponents a bye for the round.
>During the first round, flakes will be revealed in smaller groups, noting disqualifications and asking the thread if they wish to disqualify anyone else.

>During each round, small groups of flake match-ups will be revealed
>Arguments and votes will be taken from the thread over which flake is likely to prevail over the other.
>After each round, the flakes that move on will be re-randomized on the roster to make match-ups unpredictable.

>Match-Up rules will treat both competing flakes in a match as though they are both forced into conflict with the other, and neither is allowed to planeswalk away until a winner is determined. Flakes will be treated as though they start with zero assisting summons and will not have prepared for this encounter.

>>49088609
Hmmm.

>Anastasia VS Tien Sheng
Well, Sheng is clearly more experienced in combat, but Anastasia has probability manipulation. If Tien Sheng had some of his army with him (since that's his big thing) I'd give it to him. But 1v1, chaos powers are just a bit op. Anastasia takes it.

>Ussa Vs Cadros
I've gotta give it to Cadros. Ussa has some excellent hypnosis powers, but she's really not proven herself in a fight.

>Evantu VS Iosha
Iosha is a great artificer, but Evantu is a highly trained physical combatant. I think it'd be close, but in the end, Evantu would take it. Training counts for a lot.

>Kathos VS Naran
Probably Naran. She has a wider repertoire of spells. Also, poor Kathos is just a jeweler.

>>49088324
>>49088609
Polls! Vote while it's hot!

http://www.strawpoll.me/11121142
http://www.strawpoll.me/11121143
http://www.strawpoll.me/11121144
http://www.strawpoll.me/11121145

>>49088609
Tian Sheng has his fight down as far as I can tell, Anastasia seems to be too, well, vanilla to be of note and I'm simply not convinced her skills in chaos can beat his selection.
Even if she can do 150% of a normal fighter's power 50% of the time, Tian's got 100% 100% of the time.

In Ussa's fight, while she lacks diversity good god does she have power in her summons. Hypnosis or not, Gaea's revenge is something you just don't throw normal people at.

Evantu might as well be a top-tier flake with all his power, Iosha's neat but can't match whatever the fuck he is. He's a monster, she's a woman with a boat.

Naran wins their fight, Kathos just likes shiny moneys, I don't even think he can throw a punch, let alone a powerful combat spell beyond gild.

>>49088609
Kathos is a jeweler, not a fighter. Poor dude's done
Unless his age is catching up to him, Tien Sheng has got this one for being a general from edgy proto-Tarkir.
Ussa is lazy but terrifyingly strong. Plus her summons are huge. I'd give it to her, but it'd be close
Iosha just seems like she'd win to me.

>>49088807
Why Iosha? While I do like her and her powerset, I don't think it can topple the thing Evantu is, what's your reasoning?

>>49088852
>http://www.strawpoll.me/11121142
SHE'S ON A BOAT MOTHERFUCKER
THIS AS REAL AS IT GETS!

>>49088751
Some are close, some are not.

TEN MINUTE CALL, FOLKS.
Make your last arguments and votes, because in ten minutes, I am calling the winners and revealing the next bunch of flakes!

>>49088887
hehe, someone had a poll highlighted

>>49088889
what are you calling the winners? bad names?

>>49088852
My main difference is experience. While he has a fuckton of spells, he seems more interested in training than anything.

Iosha also claims to be fighting phyrexia somewhere. That's always notable.

>>49088906
IN THE BEDROOM WITH NISHAL
DAILY
NIGHTLY
EVER SO RIGHTLY

>>49088906
fair enough. While I still think the nature of the creature that Evantu is makes him a higher tier of power than most, Iosha's skill would definitely not make it an easy fight.

>>49088852
Dude, Evantu is just a highly trained human monk. Don't let his pic fool you.

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>>49088324
>>49088609
>>49088887
Time's up, folks! The following flakes will move onto Round Two:
>Anastasia
>Ussa
>Iosha
>Naran

The next bunch of flakes going in are as follows:


>Terut
https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/0Bwl7IuoVRkFxenE1UEJWb2hNZzQ

>Gotyr
https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/0Bwl7IuoVRkFxWkZTU1lMdzd6aXc

>Double
https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/0Bwl7IuoVRkFxUHlESmc5QlBVeDA

>Sock [DISQUALIFIED: Un-Flake]
https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/0Bwl7IuoVRkFxOUk0dzBxeWpoT2M

>Maxwell
https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/0Bwl7IuoVRkFxWE9PeHdzdnRhY1U

>Ombretta
https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/0Bwl7IuoVRkFxaS1vaUJjUjZhanc

>Miyja
https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/0Bwl7IuoVRkFxR3RDdFkxa3lPU0U

>Bavara
https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/0Bwl7IuoVRkFxMXBoWDBKUzhFQjg

At this time, I recommend Gotyr for disqualification on the premise that Avatars are not their own beings and should reasonably not be Planeswalkers.

>>49089053
I agree. Gotyr should be disqualified. There's no confirmation an avatar can have a spark.

>>49089053
Not sure if Gotyr works, may have to be disq'd. I'd be ok with his avatar race if he was something else that became an avatar rather than being born one, but he wasn't, so I think he has to go.

>>49089053

I'd agree. I personally like Gotyr, but the avatar thing does kinda mess that up. Plus, him and sock both being out means we can have a round with no byes.

It's amazing to think that after this set of flakes, we'll only have gone through about 1/10th of them.

>>49089159
hue

>>49089158
I could do it that way, but I won't. I assigned everyone to their opponent randomly before I even began doing this.
Instead of no byes, this round will have TWO byes, and it's because the match-ups are nigh:

>>49089053
>Miyja VS Maxwell

>Sock VS Double [Sock is disqualified]
Double gets a bye to Round Two due to Sock's disqualification.

>Terut VS Ombretta

>Bavara VS Gotyr [Gotyr is disqualified]
Bavara gets a bye to Round Two due to Gotyr's disqualification.

START DISCUSSING! Polls will be up shortly.

>>49089197
I think Terut might be too skilled at keeping it in his pants to lose to Ombretta, not to mention being very offensive in magical focus.

I don't like Miyja, but Maxwell is just a petty magician of cheap burn tricks, he's outclassed in power.

>>49089197
Maxwell is a magician. Miyja summons big-ass wurms. Miyja wins.

I can't bring myself to read Terut or Ombretta. Too tired.

>>49089053
>>49089197
POLLS ARE UP!

http://www.strawpoll.me/11121316
http://www.strawpoll.me/11121315

>>49089197

>Miyja vs Maxwell

I'm saying Maxwell takes this one. Miyja has WURMS, but that's also her only trick. She doesn't seem like she'd be able to do too much before she'd gathered a fair amount of mana since her only strategy is rushing with big brutes. Maxwell can steal a march on her and his trickery is likely sufficient to make brute-forcing a win unlikely. Miyja has no backup plan and so she folds.

>Terut vs Ombretta
Huh boy, two of mine got set against each other this time, huh...

Terut can absorb a ridiculous amount of punishment without decreasing his ability to fight at all, but he is at a disadvantage in that Ombretta's magic tends to affect luck and emotions, although since she relies on more lethal black magic to "seal the deal" when she can't talk her way out of things and that's not going to work on Terut, he can outlast her, and pain magic is not something Ombretta has the fortitude to withstand for very long. Ombretta will likely set the pace of the battle, but Terut would defeat her eventually. He'd pay dearly for it, but that's kinda business as usual for the poor bastard.

It might be a quicker bout if it's social combat. Terut is basically immune to seduction after the shit his body has been through and Ombretta would leave, quickly, if she saw what he looked like under all that stuff.

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Well I was saving this for when I got my next writefagging done, but since flakes are being used for something, it's best to put this out now so the information isn't outdated.

>>49089268
Terut is basically a nihilist battle-buddhist, ombretta is the master remover of pants, and also I guess an otherwise very refined lady. She does not appear to be combat skilled at all, save a few tricks.

>>49089304
TEN MINUTE CALL!

Get your last arguments and votes in.
The group of flakes after this one will be the last ones revealed tonight.

>>49089368
oh no!
I wonder if mine will be in there?

>>49089381
Maybe, maybe not.

I will tell you this: There are some names in the next set that are going to get everyone's attention.

>>49089393
>inb4 diomedes and gaia matched up in a fight

>>49089393
>inb4 Vronak memes

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>>49089053
>>49089197
>>49089304
Set's over. The following flakes move on to Round Two:

>Miyja
>Double
>Terut
>Bavara

Tonight's final group of flakes are as follows:

>Chillbrass [DISQUALIFIED: Lore-breaker]
https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/0Bwl7IuoVRkFxUHZRTi00UmJNYUU

>Zix
https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/0Bwl7IuoVRkFxMEdYNjJWR0l4TUU

>Talo'ara
https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/0Bwl7IuoVRkFxOXpuNmlkNWo4NDg

>Perselus
https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/0Bwl7IuoVRkFxbFRna3B2R0JiaU0

>Raoki [DISQUALIFIED: Incomplete Flake]
https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/0Bwl7IuoVRkFxNGpzUElOQTd2OEU

>Thyranno
https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/0Bwl7IuoVRkFxSmo3dG95RWNLT2M

>Mortemalo
https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/0Bwl7IuoVRkFxaTdZREJWS2FnVDA

>DIOMEDES
https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/0Bwl7IuoVRkFxMmVPbFc3czYwMEE

With that...

Begin discussing.

>>49089481
lord have mercy on whoever fights diomedes

>>49089487
As mighty as DIOMEDES is, I would like to bring everyone's attention to a particularly strange clause that I added to the rules here >>49088663

>Flakes with meme-levels of power will be treated as though they weren’t.

DIOMEDES is for sure a valiant warrior and incredibly skilled fighter, but should not be treated as actually unstoppable just because we have let the joke run for so long. If he is greater than his opponent, then victory shall be his, but do consider that in some cases that he might actually not be.

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>>49089393
Angerfish vs. Bluefingers. Compound names title bout. Make it happen.

>>49089481
Mortemalo is an unglued flake, if I recall. Even then, he's undead. So no.

>>49089521
Good eye.

Goodness, that's three flakes removed from the contest. Will tonight's battle set be an anticlimax?

>>49089481
Isn't Mortemalo a joke flake?

>>49089481
huh, zix is actually kinda powerful beyond his weak goblin body, and Perselus has the cheap trick of using eldrazi magic to win.

I'm not sure Thyranno should have a spark, but then again wizards is probably gonna pull some bullshit down the line with elspeth, so I dunno what to do about her. Mortemalo shouldn't have a spark.

>>49089516
>someone wanting a fight with my flake
th-thank

>>49089481
Mortemalo is indeed unglued. Talo is from the last snowstorm and was added when this one started. Not sure if that matters too much to this.

>>49089547
>Thyranno
Surely this one is one that should be discussed.

What say the rest of you?

>>49089576
I am discussing it, and don't call me Shirley

>>49089561
All 222 of the flakes from the repository will be used even if we are disqualifying some of them, including Talo.

>>49089591
Gotcha. Just making sure.
AS for Thyranno, she's definitely a bit iffy on the "how dead" part. One doesn't simply march of out of Nyx like that. Plus she's ancient.
Liches are already a maybe area, but she's on the edge of that maybe.

Matchups when?

I gotta go to bed now.

>>49089591
I think thyranno may have to go, but if their anon speaks up later a rematch could occur?

I must admit I am biased towards Talo since she is my favorite flake that I have made.
Hopefully the samurai pulls through.

>>49089481
Given the number of people that are questioning Thyranno, I am choosing to disqualify them.

The match-ups for the night are as follows. The poll will be up in five minutes, so start discussing.

>Zix VS DIOMEDES
>Raoki VS Talo'ara [Raoki is disqualified]
>Thyranno VS Chillbrass [Thyranno and Chillbrass are disqualified]
>Mortemalo VS Perselus [Mortemalo is disqualified]

>>49089735
Poor zix...

>>49089747
>>49089735
I'm actually curious what people think on this one. Diomedes has meme-powers, but time magic is always a very powerful thing to pull. Is diomedes capable of countering time shenanigans? Earlier it was said that all flakes are lowered to an equal level of power if they're overpowered.

>>49089783
Actually, what I said was

>Flakes will be treated as though they are all neowalkers in order to create a balance of power.
Oldwalker flakes are treated as though they were weakened by the post-mending.

>Flakes with meme-levels of power will be treated as though they weren’t.
Meme-walkers are meant to be considered as though they weren't memes.

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>>49089735

Huh, only one real matchup this time around.

It's an interesting one, too. Physically, Zix can't compete with Diomedes, but on the other hand, memes aside, Diomedes is never mentioned to be very magically capable of while Zix has a very powerful form of magic.

The question is, what wins? Dio's strength, or Zix's trickery? I feel like it could go either way, but time powers are pretty hax if you know how to use them, so I'm going to come down favoring Zix slightly.

>>49089819
>tfw diomedes might lose to dio's power
that said, I dunno what to do with this one. I think I might lean more to diomedes by favoritism, but will admit on an equal playing field the battle would be extremely close to call.

>>49089481
>>49089735
Zix vs DIOMEDES.
As some of you can tell, this is a complicated kind of battle. And you get all night to think about it, discuss it, and vote.

>>49089812
http://www.strawpoll.me/11121429

I will return sometime later after I wake up to move to the next group of flakes, and I will give a ten-minute call when I am going to. If the thread is still alive, I will be able to easily keep things rolling. If the thread is gone, then it will resume even later than that, in the new thread.

Those of you interested in catching up, head back to this thread: >>49064989

Have a good night, snowstorm. The Ice Age has only just begun. When we're done, we will either have a reinvigorated storm, or we will have closure.

>>49089892
yass
thank you, Ice Age anon,
with Diomedes' entry into the fray, the snow wars have begun

>>49089892
>http://www.strawpoll.me/11121429
I'm giving this one to Dio
Zix's magic is nothing to scoff at, but he's not much of a fighter. Dio has an "In case of emergencies, go invincible" spell and Zix lacks any hard hitting spells.
That said, this fight's going to take forever in the span of a minute to get through.

so, how bout' them slivers? when you think we'll see them again?

>>49091397
When the devs run out of ideas/need a filler set, sure.

I will say that Diomedes is blessed by The gods and is effectively immortal.

Can Zix deal with that?

>>49092779
I dunno, zix has time to try things a normal opponent wouldn't, literally, and recently even the gods have been realizing their powers aren't so special. I will say though that the type of immortality Diomedes has, ressurective in nature, does change things a bit, you'll have to be creative with figuring out how to challenge that. We don't know if it restores age when death is by old age, so that might be an edge for zix, forcing diomedes into a permadeath by being unable to resurrect his too old body, but if it does restore age to youth then zix would have to lock diomedes somehow, but such is technically possible with time shenanigans. This is a really good match, because we get to compare two very tough cookies, one mechanically, one physically.

>>49092895
I wouldn't try to take time travel over generations in account as X decades later, a flake could be significantly more powerful. So, I think it's safe to say that it shouldn't be measured in this tournament.

>>49092918
nono, not time travelling forewards, using time magic to age the opponent on the spot. This idea is used more in demonic concepts or evil wizards, but is an obvious thing for time wizards to try. We don't know if diomedes' resurrective power can counter forced aging. If it can, zix is at a disadvantage and must rely on stopped time and imprisoning diomedes somehow to have a hope of winning, but if diomedes' resurrective immortality doesn't, then zix may have an ace. I will say, though, that I have already voted, and voted for diomedes, because zix does require far more circumstances to be met to win, but not as many as others do. If someone can't disenchant him, imprison him or otherwise incapacitate him, diomedes has advantage.

>>49092969
Actually, in the lore the only people I know capable of doing that are Clockworkers. Which they don't seem to teach anyone their ways, as shown with Tezerret in Test of Metal.

>>49093115
I'm sure if one plane can do it others can, we don't actually know much about zix, and I don't know if his author is around to confirm or deny the applications of time magic he actually knows, so I'm just assuming a little of everything.


If zix's author is here, can you tell us what zix can or cannot do with his time magic learned so far?

>>49093157
Zix's author hasn't been around in a bit. But Zix has shown the ability to stop or slow time for a small duration. And he has been training with Will. His typical approach is to avoid conflict, but when the going gets tough he has been seen halting time and sabotaging his enemy, which honestly would be his best bet against Diomedes. But he hasn't shown the ability to travel through time or age an opponent yet.

>>49093197
oh? is zix featured in flakepoint stuff? Ok, this helps. Yeah, timestop sabotage would be very effective against a very physical opponent like diomedes, but I do admit not having offensive time magic like past travel or forced aging does mean diomedes has the resurrective trump card.

>>49093230
He's not in Flakepoint stuff, no. But he did have some very good writefaggings early on in the storm. I recommend them. They're some of the best to come out of the storm, imo. Zix has a lot of character.

>>49093157
This isn't a planar thing. This is an ancient group that have no home and live outside of just one particular time. Even running into one is highly unlikely as they tend to pick and choose what timeline and universe they want to live in. Typically choosing the best turn of events for the time they choose to live in. So, I doubt they would live in a time where the events of Tarkir took place.

>>49093385
I don't mean the organization, I mean the application of the magic. I'm sure that if the idea of forcing someone to age is an application of time magic one group knows, then we here at original the character central can make other charaters that also know it, BUT, we already have near-confirmation Zix does not have access to that kind of magic, and as such would not be able to use it, swinging favor to dio.

>>49093474
That's treading on thin ice with this statement of "if someone canonically knows it then we can surely make a flake know it also" as we got both Nicol Bolas post-Mending making planes, forcing neowalkers and non-walkers to planeswalk, and even Ajani summoning a legendary Nicol Bolas to fight said real Nicol Bolas. Which the real Nicol list to the fake Nicol. This is basically justifying all of despognak's flakes as being non-lore breaking.

>>49093777
I'm pretty sure agents of artifice or whichever one with clockworking isn't canon.
So can I get a source for the 1st 2 claims.

>>49093890
Test of Metal. And it is canon.

>>49093890
Also, are you really asking for source on the entire story of be Alara block? There is even a duel deck based around it. If you don't know one of the most pivital storyarchs in the lore, Look it up yourself.

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Help! I'm new to this thread (and MtG lore in general), and there are apparently 222 steel donuts here! How do I get oriented in what's going on?

>>49093979
Over fifty of them are made by one person, get out while you still can.

>>49093956
Test of Metal is deemed mostly non-canon due to conflicts with the established continuity, Agents of Artifice is perfectly fine.

>>49093777
Nicol Bolas can't make planes post mending. He just took advantage of the shit Alara does naturally to get a huge powerboost back to legacy/sort of oldwalker status.

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>>49093985
Are they at least good at it?

>>49093890
>>49093956
The events are canon, but the books themselves come with a whole salt shaker.
Liliana and Jace dated, but it's questionable that Tezzeret has insane vertical time manipulation powers and isn't just a really good artificer.

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>>49094016
I will post five of the ones he has made and let you decide how good they are.

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>>49094055

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>>49094067

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>>49094080

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>>49094089

>>49094103
POST THE PURPLE ONE

>>49094124
No, that's the only one that Vronak has agreed is bad. So since that flake is objectively bad, it would skew the presentation.

>>49094009
Test of Metal is canon. It is literally fundamental to the Nicol Bolas story arch.

>>49094015
This might be the case, but he still did it post-Mending. Meaning the ability is still there and isn't one of the things being blocked by the mending closing the access to the Planeswalkers' source of power.

>>49094042
Actually, he is just a really good artificer as was the point of him meeting the Clockworkers but not being able to utilize their magics.

>>49094103
This is not one of mine.

>>49094133
All flakes are shit. Never forget.

>>49094138
Test of Metal contradicts previously written canon without the consent of the previous author.

Just one example, Baltrice was alive in Test of Metal when she had died in Agents of Artifice and she was 'brought back' without the consent of the previous author. Source:
>http://web.archive.org/web/20130123183305/http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/25737625/Planeswalker_Scoresheet_RISK_OF_SPOILERS&post_num=60#472339545

At this point, Vronak, you're just disagreeing with what's being established by the MtG community for half a decade because you enjoy being contrarian and starting arguments. Before you, literally no one dared to ever claim that Test of Metal didn't break continuity.

>>49094138
>This might be the case, but he still did it post-Mending
In what book? He didn't make Alara. The shards coming back together was a natural event on that plane and his meditation realm has been around since his oldwalker days

The inability to make planes is explicitly one of the things neowalkers don't have the power to so anymore

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>>49094103
>>49094089
>>49094080
>>49094067
>>49094055
I can't tell if it's dangerously edgy, dangerously weaboo, or both. The worst part is that they are so close to being decent characters.

>>49094192
> established by the MtG community
> apparent this guy knows the entire community and knows what they accept as true
> thinks it's all non-canon because of one slip up
They did the same thing with Yawgmoth and Karona. Does that make the entire Karona story arch non-canon? No? Then stop acting like one person's mistake makes the entire thing null and void.

>>49094199
You apparently haven't read the Alara block or you'd know what I'm talking about. He has his own pocket plane that he ports Tezz and his assassin to by force.

>>49094217
>Karona story arch non-canon?
Literally yes, since it was turned into a mana heavy fever dream.

>>49094216
Thank you for calling them close to being decent characters. Though again, one of those isn't mine. But, no flake is meant to be a good character.

>>49094239
Yeah, the meditation realm, which was around since his oldwalker days

>>49094243
So, what you're telling me is that nothing went wrong with Dominaria's mana being cut off by he death of Karona? Apparently he Mending never happened. Apparently all is well and we still have oldwalker powers.

>>49094217
Conveniently ignoring the rest of the post just to fixate on a single fallible point.

Karona's story and Test of Metal both clash with the continuity if not outright break it. The generally accepted react in every MtG community I've been apart of is to act as though the author made a mistake and ignore those continuity-breaking events.

And again, you're disagreeing just to stir shit. This is my last reply to you on this subject. Have a nice day.

If other people are sensible, they will also stop replying to Vronak. He's just collecting (you)s at this point.

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>>49094216
Have a couple more then.

By the way, would you say that the formatting of these images makes it obvious that they were made by the same person?

>>49094055
The problem with your idea is that the guy is new and wouldn't know why any of the walkers posted are lore breaking

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>>49094283

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>>49094293

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>>49094250
Calling them close to decent wasn't a compliment, m8. They are all wasted potential.

Saying that no flake is meant to be a good character might be true in your case, but I'm sure some of you actually try, even if unsuccessfully. Don't devalue their efforts so.

>>49094283
Yes. I doubt there is a single, agreed upon font that people use.

>>49094283
>>49094293
>>49094301
These are just meme tier. The bad kind of meme.

>>49094253
All artificially created planes collapsed after the mending as the Planeswalkers powers no longer sustained them.

>>49094373
Except Mirrodin

>>49094373
Except Bolas' meditation realm, he's just cool like that.

>>49094388
Mirrodin is not artificial.

>http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/magic-storyline/335418-ask-the-author-s?page=7#c173

>I believe Karn created the fabric of the world itself, but the blinkmoths were either already there (in a relatively unformed plane) or he imported them from somewhere else. They were the only organic creatures on the world before Memnarch began bringing lifeforms in from other planes. My guess is that Karn (knowing that manufactured planes have a limited lifespan, transformed an existing (and nearly desolate) plane for his home, taking great care not to upset the balance of the blinkmoth's existence.

> Will McDermott
>Magic Author

>>49094398
There's no confirmation that his meditation realm is artificial.

>>49094373
Source that the plane was explicitly made by Bolas?

>>49094266
The point I was making is that just because one mistake was made in writing, doesn't make the entire story arch non-canon. Just the mistake(s).

>>49094283
Not mine and as far as I know it's not Des' either. I think it's the same anon who made the elf queen.

>>49094350
Most of those are mine. Two are only not mine. And as for the font, it's the default on most apple photo editors.

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>>49094523
I am kind of getting tire of posting sources all because peeps don't read the lore. I swear that most of you just lurk salvation and read cliff notes. Go read the Alara lore.

>>49094919
Yeah, that one was noticeably different due to no "What are they up to now?" section.

Stories have arcs, gates have arches, just fyi.

>>49094971
>Bolas Meditation Realm
>Created millenia ago by an Emperor of Madara
>Fell into the hands of Bolas when he claimed the throne of Madara
>Is now his meditation realm after being the only thing that could access it for a millenia because Tetsuo sealed Bolas in there for a fucklong time.

There's nothing that says Bolas made the plane, and actually a bit of implication that he didn't, but simply got access to it as the Emperor of Madara.

Got a little tangled up in some stuff. Will resume in a couple of hours or so.

>>49095084
This is 100% wrong. It was used by the Emporer. Not created by him. He wasn't even a Planeswalker. He accessed it through a portal on Dominaria.

>>49095353
Sorry, she. I'm exhausted.

>>49095377
>>49095353
>Emperor
>she
??????
Shouldn't she be called the Empress then?

>>49095353
The point I was trying to make was that the Meditation realm was around LONG before Bolas decided to take Madara over for himself so he couldn't of made it.

>>49095407
Emporer was the title, she refer to herself as a Queen.

>>49095430
No it wasn't. It was never even mentioned until Bolas brought Umezawa there.

>>49095430
>>49095524
Which I should add that Nicol Bolas refer to it as "my realm".

>>49095524
>No it wasn't.
see >>49095353
>It was used by the Emporer/Empress
Bolas wasn't the first Emperor of Madara, but the plane already belonged to the Emperor of Madara. So it had to exist before Bolas became the emperor since it was already owned by the previous emperor.

>>49095544
>Nicol Bolas refer to it as "my realm".
Bolas refers to a lot of things as "His" because he takes them and is a selfish dragon. Him saying "My realm" is the same as taking a rattle from a baby and calling it "Your rattle"
Plus he was sealed there for ages and is now the only one that can easily access it, making it literally his.
It's not even a full plane, it's more like Ravnica's ghost quarter or Nyx on Theros. It's a weird sort of subplane growing off of Dominaria

>>49095665
The it was "used" by the Queen because of Nicol Bolas. He used his own men to infiltrate her army and usurped her.

>>49095735
Also I should note that she didn't refer to herself as a Queen. Her people did. She referred to herself as the God Empress.

>>49095735
Unless you can find a source or passage that says Bolas made the realm and let the Empress of Madara, an island nation he didn't even know existed/give a shit about until he wanted it use it as she pleased, everything you're spouting is bullshit. Since you've "read the lore" I'm sure you have a book on this. So go on, find the page number and passage and copy it down.
>Queen
Your the only one who called her that.

Whatever happened to Chandere?

>>49096436
Sorin lost, Nahiri got away, and ChandraXNissa is (almost) canon. Chandere is probably hanging from a lenght of rope somewhere.

>>49096522
She dropped the name but is probably around somewhere.
There was a thread a month back about Sorin and Nahiri and there was a Sorin fag claiming Sorin was 150% innocent, called everyone who said otherwise, as in not even defending Nahiri, just pointing out Sorn was an asshole, nothing but waifufags, and unironically called half the people arguing against them "shitlords" unironically and generally had a Chandere style temper tantrum about the whole thing.
Now, I'm not saying it was Chandere, but it was almost definitely no-one but her.

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>>49096634
Sorin IS innocents tho. Nahiri a bitch.

http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/magic-story/time-innovation-2016-08-31

>Inb4 Phyrexia

>>49096634
Oh yeah, I remember that.

>>49096658
Sorin is also a cunt though anon, he may be the lesser of two cunts but a cunt he remains.

>>49096660
Is it wrong that I just really don't care about Kaladesh? It's the first plane to just completely disinterest me, I don't care for the aesthetic or the theme.

>>49096709
So is Serena to Murdock then. But would you want us to side with?

>>49096738
Serena kinda didn't do anything to Murdock though, she just had wings. Murdock is definitely in the wrong on that one.

>>49096998
>had wings
REEEE

>>49096660
>Portal that sends matter through the blind eternities from point A to point B

How could this possibly go wrong?

>>49097082
>inb4 more Eldrazi lookalikes

>>49095856
That wasn't me before. And literally she was the only ruler before Bolas took over. It's not like it was generations of years old before Bolas swooped in and took the throne. It's from Assassin's Blade. I don't know the exact page number as this was back during the legends block. It's the first quarter of the book. It doesn't say outright that Nicol Bolas created he plane, he just always calls it "his realm" and is the first one introduced ever knowing about it.

>>49097052
inb4 Iceage anon puts Serena v Murdock.

>>49096660
Well, planar portals now pretty much confirmed to work post-mending. Of course, they now require Kaladesh tech and access to whatever the fuck the aether is.

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Is everyone ready to journey into the shadow realm?

>>49097998
It's material that exists in the Blind Wternities that spells use to create summon creatures and artifacts and shit.

>>49098105
why does vronak's new flake fit so well into this set

>>49098140
> inb4 Vronak is MaRo

>>49098105
THIS ICE AGE IS NOW A SHADOW GAME!

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>>49098105

>inb4 there's actually a small scene where a planeswalker notices people on this plane summon monsters from stone tablets to fight each other and comments on what a ridiculous notion that is

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>>49098497
>tfw you realize yugioh lore is just a Jojo ripoff or vice versa
AWAKEN MY MASTERS

>>49097998
IT'S LIMITED TO INORGANIC MATTER SO DON'T GIVE VRONAK ANY FUCKING IDEAS

>>49099112
Pffsh. Like I give a damn about playing with portals.

>>49098105
>Black kill spells now directly reference a shadow realm in their flavor text
>Demons are said to be born of the souls of those sent to the shadow realm
>Most 'goodness' type white spells
>Reutrn of bestow, with including "Bestow target player" type enchantments
>The set has a big ass WU dragon, a slightly smaller but more useful RB dragon, and a pimpin' RU Wizard and it's mono R disciple.

psst
PSST
when next round of flake cage match?

>>49099402
Ice Age anon is probably asleep, he seemed to be up pretty late last night.

>>49096660
>gremlins
FUCK

>>49099883
Haha! Grimsby becomes canon!

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>>49099402
Right about now.

>>49099745
Where I was, it wasn't that late.
On the other hand, my day took a couple of hectic turns.

>>49089481
>>49089735
>>49089892
And thus, I declare that the following flakes will move onto the next Round.

>DIOMEDES
>Talo'ara
>Perselus

The next batch of flakes is as follows:

>Phylakteos
https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/0Bwl7IuoVRkFxdFdBaFlJdW5SeEE

>Hilde
https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/0Bwl7IuoVRkFxT09FWnZ5WDFkekU

>The Bookworm [DISQUALIFIED: Un-Flake]
https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/0Bwl7IuoVRkFxQTQzRDI5V285a1k

>David Miller
https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/0Bwl7IuoVRkFxbC1zdWJBZDhuNVU

>Immoran
https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/0Bwl7IuoVRkFxcXp4cmlRR3NrQ0k

>Frances
https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/0Bwl7IuoVRkFxaUF2T1BRMElMYW8

>Sonia
https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/0Bwl7IuoVRkFxbk5TR0xFZmY3SDg

>Lawrence
https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/0Bwl7IuoVRkFxVWM2dzlNdEhja0E

Begin discussion on whether any flakes ought be disqualified.

>>49100137
I am uncertain, but I think David Miller might be an unflake. I can't tell though.

And a again, poor Lawrence, merchant flakes can never catch a break in the fights.

>>49100137
I am having a hard time taking "Dave" seriously. I think it's an unflake.

>>49100137

I think David Miller should probably not be included, as he's a joke flake.

Immoran would be out on the basis that we established earlier that you can't be an avatar and a planeswalker.

Sonia's kind of a weird case. I feel like her being a pacifist means by most metrics any opponent she faced would win by default since she'd elect not to fight, but since Sonia does have spells that enable her to engage in combat and win without inflicting harm, I guess she should stay in.

>>49097306
I don't think she is into this fight thing.

>>49100315
you could be an avatar and a planeswalker, but you'd have to ascend to being one from being something with a spark. It is confirmed that xenagos was still a planeswalker while he was a god, though he never planeswalked in-story after his ascension.

>>49100046
>mfw gremlins on kaladesh aren't sapient
Even he was canon, he's still an edgy faggot.

>>49100137
Upon closer inspection, I will be marking Immoran for disqualification, since he is an avatar and therefore shouldn't have a spark.

Hearing the room, I will disqualify David Miller. Honestly, I can't imagine him winning any fight anyway.

And so I will declare the match-ups!

>Phylakteos VS Hilde

>Sonia VS Immoran [Immoran is disqualified.]
Sonia obtains a bye to the next round as a result of Immoran's disqualification.

>The Bookworm VS David Miller [Both combatants disqualified.]
Amazingly, both combatants have been disqualified.

>Frances VS Lawrence

Begin discussing!

>>49100255
>David Miller
>that update
Huehuehue.

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>>49100402

>Phylakteos VS Hilde

Unless Hilde catches the sphinx by surprise and zergs him to death very quickly with goblins, I don't see this working out for her. Phy seems to have her magically outgunned and ancient wisdom tends to trump lovable idiocy nine times out of ten.

>Frances VS Lawrence

A paranoid druid with all kinds of big nasties vs a merchant.

Poor Lawrence.

>>49100402
I was going to make a case defending immoran, but after reading his bio it seems he was an avatar to begin with, so yeah, disqualify him

>>49100402
Hilde wins if she goes off before phyl can establish a board state.
Poor Lawrence won't see crazy pants Frances going.

>>49100137
>>49100402
Polls are up!

http://www.strawpoll.me/11126484
http://www.strawpoll.me/11126486

>>49100402
Lawrence is UNPREPARED

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>>49100471
>>49100512
>>49100656
>>49100690
>Crazy Pants Frances decimating the deadly puppet assassin of the vampire thopter god
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXCUenE0b5A

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>>49100137
>>49100402
>>49100656
The following flakes will move on to the next round:
>Phylakteos
>Sonia
>Frances

The next bunch of flakes are as follows:
>Akanta
https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/0Bwl7IuoVRkFxVUQ3WjJpbGlnZE0

>Veldren
https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/0Bwl7IuoVRkFxWE9QSzUxV0lvUFU

>Captain Graveborn [DISQUALIFIED: Can't be fully present on location.]
https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/0Bwl7IuoVRkFxRVlYNG0zSmJab0E

>Caid
https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/0Bwl7IuoVRkFxSzdqNlU2d19KS3c

>Ellisar
https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/0Bwl7IuoVRkFxUWhZa1J5cG5PQlk

>Friend
https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/0Bwl7IuoVRkFxXzBTSGRmTFNibDQ

>Marjanah
https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/0Bwl7IuoVRkFxVnBFM1RZM29ZVzg

The eighth flake was removed due to a booking error, in which someone was double-booked by having two folders.

Begin Discussion!

>>49100858
Damn son, that's all of my flakes except VtS, but I'm pretty sure he's not in the running.
also
>DISQUALIFIED: Can't be fully present on location
made me kek

>>49100956
I basically disqualified Beep for the same reason.

>>49100858
Having heard no additional disqualification suggestions, I will now reveal the match-ups:

>Akanta
Due to an error in booking, Akanta's opponent was a duplicate and has been struck from the record. Akanta has been given a bye to the next round.

>Veldren VS Captain Graveborn
Veldren gets a bye to the next round as a result of Captain Graveborn's disqualification.

>Caid VS Ellisar

>Friend VS Marjanah

DISCUSS!

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>>49100997
>my boy Veldren gets a free pass
neicu

>>49100997
>Friend and Marjanah
I'm giving 'Friend' this one due to the fact that Marjanah's blind. Otherwise, I'd say that the desiccating desert magic of Marjanah wins out.
>Caid and Ellisar
Mister solid illusions versus interplanar terminator elf? Both of them are Vronak trash but I guess I have to go with Ellisar.

>>49100997
That Friend vs Marjanah fight is pretty fucking close, they pretty much have color-swapped spells that fill similar roles.

>>49100858
>>49100997
>>49100997
Polls are up!

http://www.strawpoll.me/11126680
http://www.strawpoll.me/11126683

These will be up for a little while, since I need to run off and take care of something again. When I return, we'll get another good handful of flake batches.

No really, I won't run off for more than twelve hours this time, I promise. It'll really be more like four.

>>49100858
Voting Ellisar for his fight, if only because his opponent is just some fucking dude.
I like friend more than Marjanah, but do admit I am torn in terms of which is more capable.

Can anyone post that leak where Chandra and Lilliana were implied to have fucked and called Gideon a beef something?

>>49101716
I remember no such leak for Chandra and Liliana, but Lili calling Gideon beefslab is canon, and already published.

>>49101750

I honestly can't tell from Liliana's stance on Gideon if the nicknames are a form of contempt, a sign she wants some hot Mediterranean sausage but is trying to still be too cool for him, or both.

>>49101827
It's both.

>>49101874

And Gideon's other role besides tank and party face is finally made clear.

He keeps the other four screwups on the same team because all four of them want his dick.

>>49101921
Sounds about right.

>>49101921
Gives a whole new meaning to the "carrot and stick" analogy.

>>49101956
He could stick his carrot in me.

>>49102039
>his dick has as many heads as his surral.

>>49102039
It's funny, Chandra and Big Sis Lili talk about the nice view and forgetting shirts, but all the card art features him in full armor.

>>49102104
In battle.

>>49101089
You suckers got lucky. I'm back early.

TEN MINUTE CALL! Wrap up any voting!

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>>49100858
>>49100997
>>49101089
The following flakes move on to the next round:

>Akanta
>Veldren
>Ellisar
>Marjanah

Here is the next bunch of flakes to compete:

>Sir Joseph
https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/0Bwl7IuoVRkFxcFU0V0NFT1N0TFk

>Yao Shen
https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/0Bwl7IuoVRkFxdEtQRGpDMjBTQkU

>Eris
https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/0Bwl7IuoVRkFxQXZBLWdBREFWX00

>Emir
https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/0Bwl7IuoVRkFxWFBZLTY1UHhPeFE

>Irriad
https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/0Bwl7IuoVRkFxMXEtU0x3OUFaczA

>Pancake
https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/0Bwl7IuoVRkFxRlNoZ3hvVzRiR0U

>Katin
https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/0Bwl7IuoVRkFxTEdVOG10cS16b2M

>Amund
https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/0Bwl7IuoVRkFxRHNMbDBZLVVtSzg

Begin discussion!

>>49103511
I think Beeble might be an unflake. At the very least, he's a created being and shouldn't have a spark. I vote for him to be disqualified.

>>49103607
>Beeble
Fuck, meant Pancake. His race is apparently Beeble, whatever the fuck that is.

>>49103625
Beebles are oldschool. They're basically constructs in the same vein that homunculi are.

They... probably shouldn't be able to have sparks.

>>49103625
Artificial sentient race typically created for pranks at Tolarian Academy. It was kind of the first running meme at WotC.

>>49103656
Apparently it was gifted the spark before a walker died.

>>49103511
Pancake has a donated spark, it may stay

>>49103511
I was considering dropping Pancake from the runnings, but the room seems to think otherwise, so I will now reveal the match-ups:

>Sir Joseph VS Katin

>Eris VS Pancake

>Emir VS Yao Shen

>Amund VS Irriad

BEGIN DISCUSSION!

>>49103885
Who the fuck made this flake anyways?

>>49103511
I would like to question amund, but on lorwyn where he's from they're treated like a normal born race rather than an elemental race as they are on other planes, so I think he gets a pass for not being disq'd.

>>49103952
I haven't the foggiest

>>49103952
Fairly certain he's a Vronak flake.

>>49103944
Oh no, Pancake's innocence!

>>49103952
It's a Pog flake, with Pog being one of Vronak's alternate identities.

>>49103944
>Amund VS Irriad
Damn, that's a good one. I can't figure it out. Charred raging fire man or augmented liberating treefolk?

>>49103944
Amund vs Iriad is the main fight methinks, both are pretty big leage fighters with very different morals, they're gonna clash pretty hardcore. I think Amund has race advantage there, though.

>>49103973
I'm Vronak and I asked the question.

>>49103979
Seeing as Pancake as an assload of clone tokens, I think his butthole will be fine... or dick. Depending on what the lewdess is into.

>>49104018
*big league

>>49104007
the fire advantage on Iriad is something to look out for, but Amund has a lot of strength and elemental magic on his side. Needless to say though, looking at their cardlist, the fight's gonna be fucking brutal. I may have to flip a coin to determine who I vote for.

>>49104007
Sorry Amund, looks like Smokey couldn't prevent this forest fire.

>>49103944
>Joseph, Katin, Emir and Yao Shen are ignored in favor of the monster fight and the beeble's bum

>>49104022
Yes, Vronak, and it's one of your flakes.

I'm Anonymous and I answered your question.

>>49104095
Dude. Stop now while you're ahead. We don't want the thread going to autosage because of Vronak's bullshit again.

>>49104085
>implying Yao Shen doesn't muscle the fuck of the little fuccboi thief
>implying the honorable sir joseph could bring himself to slaughter such a poor defenseless woman
no one needs to talk about them because they're so one-sided.

>>49103944
Joey beats Katy. Katy doesn't seem to have much of a win condition compared to the onslaught that Joey has.

Pancake beats Eris. Pancake has a shitton of clone tokens that seemingly would just overrun Eris's more player focused cards.

Emir would beat The Revenant: The Flake. As Emir has big Djinns and Bribery.

Irriad would beat Amund. Because we don't have the Eternal Dragon to wish back this burned down forest.

>>49104112
This actually merits a response from me than the meme of different anons being me.

>>49104156
>big djinns and bribery
>implying big djinns are immune to being distracted by enormous baloth+prey upon while yao slaughters the fuccboi with his huge axe.

>>49104222
> implying Bribery isn't taking the "enormous Baloth"

>>49104249
>implying anyone's allowed to search libraries without panglacial wurm being awoken

>>49103511
>>49103944
We've got some good discussion going on. So without further ado...

Here are the polls:
http://www.strawpoll.me/11127713
http://www.strawpoll.me/11127714
http://www.strawpoll.me/11127715
http://www.strawpoll.me/11127716

>>49104222
I have to say that the Aladdin ripoff actually has threats while Yao doesn't. It's a lot of little build ups and nothing really big on its own. Also, Emir has more experience being from his shitty whatever plane and being on quests with Diomedes and his pet bird.

>>49103944
>Joseph and Katin
Katin wins out, as a shapeshifter versus a righteous and honourable man.
>Eris and Pancake
Eris wins against a fucking beeble.
>Emir and Yao Shen
The useless dickass thief gets slaughtered.
>Amund and Irriad
The weapon grown by elves wins against the edgy asshole that hasn't made any impact on the Multiverse despite being a murderous maniac for centuries.

>>49104323
quick question: what do you define as threats? because being able to drop a bunch of huge creatures and control the board with them seems pretty threatening to me. also
>more experience
>implying Yao Shen hasn't had tons of hunting fun
i suppose that's my fault for not publishing any writefagging on him yet.

>>49104371
Combat, man. Combat. Values don't mean anything when the fight starts.

>>49104390
You're assuming that the righteous and honourable man would become an emotionless killing machine in a fight, when confronted by a shapeshifter that would manipulate and twist him about her finger with a few particular forms.

At the very least, her manipulation gives her a big bonus in combat.

>>49104390
>implying the honorable sir joseph would be able to avoid being manipulated by a dimir shapeshifter
their values don't disappear when the fight starts.

>>49104421
>>49104437
I mean, manipulation is one thing. I'm just talking flat here. Unless your opponent's whole thing is somehow turning your bad values against you, your good values generally won't mean anything.

>>49104323
>>49104249
>>49104156
How about for the first time since this 'Ice Age' began, you try to vote for a flake that isn't yours in any match-up, Vronak?

>>49104290
Ten Minute Call folks! Finish up your arguments and votes!

>>49104501
I have.

Also, glad to see that we didn't really have any giant blow-outs this time around. There was debate on every last fight.

>>49104644
Someone is double voting. The vote counts on the last set don't match any of the others.

>>49104675
>IP duplication checking enabled
how are they doing that, then? no seriously, i actually want to know.

>>49104675
The number of people voting in the thread tends to be a little unpredictable. I've seen votes in battles range anywhere from 3 to 8 votes so far, depending on the time of day.

>>49104696
Then you're new to computers. It's easy to get around. But, the first poll has 8 while the rest have 7.

File: Addictive Ink.jpg (36KB, 223x310px) Image search: [Google]

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>>49103511
>>49103944
>>49104290
Alright, folks. The flakes that move on to the next round are as follows:

>Sir Joseph
>Eris
>Yao Shen
>Amund

The next batch is as follows:

>Bluefingers
https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/0Bwl7IuoVRkFxVTZoNmp5NEJZd1U

>King Pegylas
https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/0Bwl7IuoVRkFxYmVsUnVtNmVVT1U

>Domoyl
https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/0Bwl7IuoVRkFxaDRfSTZld1h1bFE

>Newt [DISQUALIFIED: Un-Flake]
https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/0Bwl7IuoVRkFxcW5aVDRlYVdWRk0

>Pog
https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/0Bwl7IuoVRkFxeHZZdW4wdWhKOG8

>Praea
https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/0Bwl7IuoVRkFxcTZFRlk3ZDlYX0E

>Jye Kwo
https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/0Bwl7IuoVRkFxbENqd19tV3NONTg

>Dipterius
https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/0Bwl7IuoVRkFxQVRFbmdvVk5mMW8

>>49104770
King Pegylas is a joke-flake of my own making. Disqualify it.

>>49104808
I recognized him from the July 4th festivities, but did not want to disqualify him off of the bat, since there technically isn't anything wrong with his sheet. If I can get even one more agreement on this, I will disqualify him.

>>49104845
If I have to point out something wrong with his sheet, he sends fleets of ships across the Blind Eternities - something even more ridiculous than Graveborn.

If Graveborn gets disqualified, so does this guy. Besides, as a useless figurehead, he'd lose any fight automatically.

>>49104866
Technically, Graveborn is disqualified as he can't really be present. While America is lore bending, I wouldn't say he exactly breaks it. More or less just takes it to the extreme limits of the lore.

>>49104770
Seeing only one additional call for disqualification, the round shall continue with the following match-ups:

>Dipterius VS Bluefingers

>King Pegylas VS Praea
Praea is given a bye to the next round, due to King Pegylas' disqualification.

>Newt VS Pog
Pog is given a bye to the next round, due to Newt's disqualification.

>Jye Kwo VS Domoyl


DISCUSS!

>>49104929
I'd disqualify him, as well as any of the other 4th of July flakes, because they're mostly jokes.

>>49104970
>Dipterus and Bluefingers
Dipterius gets this one, as Bluefingers is harmless without her demon to assist her. Even if it eventually comes out to empower her and possess her, Dipterius has likely already ravaged her with plague.
>Jye Kwo and Domoyl
A mana-bending druid versus a master archer. It's like pitting Green Arrow against Nissa sans the animancer's sword. Domoyl gets this one hands-down.

File: image.jpg (524KB, 1920x1120px) Image search: [Google]

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So Vronos looks an awful lot like one of the dudes in the background here, and the etherium brought to Alara by Crucius seems very reminiscent of Kaladesh as well.

Weird.

>>49104970
> Blue fingers Dipter's butthole
I don't see newer Golgari cards beating old Dimir. Dimir won standard back then. Mill is just too good for Golgari in this instance.

> Jye locks down Domo-kun
And Jye has a lot of good control that sees competitive play in modern while Domo is weak elf deck.

Which of these should I make into full flakes?

>Kolaghan barbarian who learns discipline and honor (and White mana) from the hoplites of Akros, on Theros, and hopes to return to his home plane to spread this
>Asshole leonin from Theros who says fuck all this and learns dark magic from the rakshasa
>Sphinx planeswalker, just any excuse for a fucking sphinx planeswalker

>>49105050
I couldn't disagree more with both of your decisions.

>>49105156
If you elaborate on it, I'd like to hear about the asshole leonin.

>>49105185
If we judge this based on cards alone, then it isn't a competition of characters, it's a competition of who shoved as much goodstuff into their card section as possible.

Bluefingers is inept and feeble without her demon while there's no evidence of the silly car having any ability to match a master archer in combat. So that's what I judge it on.

>>49104970
Polls!

http://www.strawpoll.me/11127976
http://www.strawpoll.me/11127978

WARNING: The voting period for this set will only last for [15] minutes.

>>49105241
The cards are their spells though. It's what they know. And if they can't cast anything beyond what they know, then that's how you determine it. You think they are going to punch eachother to death?

>>49105289
This argument is terrible. The cards create a list of go-to spells, and don't actually create the limits on what the character is capable of. You're supposed to read the bio, look at the cards, and interpret what the character is likely capable of or going to do.

>>49105314
It really doesn't matter what I say. People will do whatever they want regardless of who would actually win or not.

>>49105289
The section is called 'preferred spells.' Nothing saying that they're their only spells. You don't see planeswalkers throwing cards at each other in the fiction.

The cards are abstract representations of the abilities of the planeswalker, rather than the abilities of a planeswalker being dictated entirely by their cards.

>>49104970
I actually don't see Dipterius as much of a fighter. He feels more like a walking plague, but that's not fighting. And plagues stuff is going to be horribly ineffective when that demon takes over for Bluefingers.

>>49105289
The cards are there to paint a picture of what the character can do. Stuffing a bunch of goodstuff in the card section creates a less unified character, but keeping to a theme makes them better since people can draw a picture of them doing what they do.
For example all of Chandra's cards should be fire or impulse related. But a goodstuff section might include a whole bunch of land animation for no real reason and creates a less cohesive character.

>>49105189

He's tired of living in the shitty squalor forced on the leonin of Theros and grows tired of trying to live a good and orderly life in a world full of people that treat him like dirt, instead turning to darker magics. When he's nearly killed by human soldiers, his spark ignites and takes him to Tarkir, where he studies magic under the rakshasa that lurk in the jungles there; he comes to admire the ruthlessness of those cat demons, and aims to emulate them.

Reminder to you awesome scrubs that love matches that are really even, if there is a tie when time runs out, I determine the victor by coin flip.

File: NemesisofReason.jpg (37KB, 223x310px) Image search: [Google]

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>>49104770
>>49104970
>>49105252
With one tied match-up, I was forced to flip a coin to determine the victor of the first match-up of this set. The flakes that move on to Round Two are as follows:

>Bluefingers
>Praea
>Pog
>Domoyl

Now then. I'm going to leave the next set of flakes here for discussion. Because I know this one is controversial, I'm going to set it down and walk away for a bit and let you all get it out of your systems. If you want to make disqualification arguments, please source your reasons.

This next set of flakes has some real baddies in it:

>Shurguul
https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/0Bwl7IuoVRkFxVU9VRjVVQ3RTX00

>Ambrosia
https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/0Bwl7IuoVRkFxanM4WlpWcVpXMVk

>Jakrol
https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/0Bwl7IuoVRkFxYlJtWVNzenRIVWc
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bwl7IuoVRkFxUkhlRUNqNzE2Yzg/view?usp=sharing

>Lady Mirabelle [DISQUALIFIED: Un-Flake]
https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/0Bwl7IuoVRkFxYXljeVVUaUM5UFU

>Joth
https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/0Bwl7IuoVRkFxZ1B2RFE5Z2JIRU0

>Jed
https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/0Bwl7IuoVRkFxS3NfeEh5ak1qelU

>Astera
https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/0Bwl7IuoVRkFxREktNEZEaWRCZ3M

>Vronak
https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/0Bwl7IuoVRkFxejQyMmt2bW9IYjA

DISCUSS!

>>49105539
>Vronak
IT BEGINS

>>49105539
Joth is a zombie, disq

>>49105611
The 'donated spark' excuse has been used before, I'd say it's acceptable in this case.

>>49105622
fair enough, though I don't know if you can donate to undead

File: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA.gif (565KB, 246x205px) Image search: [Google]

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>>49105539
>Vronak
BAN
THIS
FILTH

>>49105539

Joth's a bit of a borderline case, as undead can't be planeswalkers...on the other hand, he seems to have a Karn thing going in that it's not his spark in the first place but one he obtained from another, which would I, I think, work since it doesn't matter that HIS soul is in questionable condition.

If we're leaving Vronak in I don't think anyone from this list but Mirabelle should be disqualified, and only because Mirabelle is a classy lady and would never crash a party she wasn't invited to.

>>49105539
Vronak should be disqualified, as he can summon clones of Avacyn and Akroma. In my opinion, that counts as interacting too closely with canon characters, which I believe is a disqualifying factor.

>>49105539
>Vronak
Fuck this is going to melt the ice age.
For my two cents, if there's a reason to disqualify him, it's that whole bullshit over knowing apparently a shitton of legendary individuals just because.
Plus being able to reanimate them to a certain point of their lives, not as they died. Or being able to reanimate the living. Or being able to reanimate nbeings who don't have physical bodies anymore, like Avacyn or Griselbrand. Or being able to reanimate Gisela, who is an emrakul'd mess that's mixed with Bruna at the moment.

>>49105713
To expand on this, in lore zombies and the like are literally pulled from the ground or the recently deceased. They aren't aether copies like you'd usually expect from summon spells, they're literally corpses you pulled from the ground.
For instance, Liliana raised Mikeaus after he died, but can't summon her Mikeaus the Unhallowed. It's why Liliana has quite an arsenal of shadow magic, so she can use something if there's a lack of corpses around.

>>49105701
Literally Ajani summoned a clone of Nicol Bolas. A fucking Planeswalker. A dude to the Maelstrom taking place, the æther that was used to summon it made it physically stronger than the real Bolas.

So, how is summoning normal "legendaries" breaking the lore?

>>49105758
>>49105713
>>49105701
>>49105690
But Vronak is a reanimator, you imbeciles. He summons aether copies of legendary creatures from the ground, necromancy has nothing to do with it.

>>49105797
Just because they don't like me or my flakes doesn't mean you should insult them. Now stop meme'ing.

>>49105690
>>49105611
>>49105622
>>49105655
>>49105539
I'd also like to point out that Liches are actually a gray area of "Maybe" on the planeswalker spark, at least, according to Doug
http://dougbeyermtg.tumblr.com/post/52923451415
Lich's would be an "interesting exception" according to him.

>>49105797
Also, how I see it as working is that he forms the bodies underground and resurrects the bodies. Entomb/Buried Alive and Reanimate/Animate Dead/Exhume.

He takes summon spell he knows our of the collective knowledge. Forms them under ground. Then has them rise up to fight.

Remember that the rules say that you don't start with any summons for the fight, that makes Vronak much less stupid if he can't roll up to a fight with Platinum Angel and a harem of Legendary Waifus.

>>49105874

Frankly that always seemed an excessively gamist concept to me. My criticism of Vronak's style from the beginning was that he's a character based on a strategy that works in the context of a card game but doesn't really make any sense when you try to write out how it works.

There's no real flavor to the "library to graveyard" effects because that's not something that would ever work lore-wise; Liliana can't create bodies of things that didn't die in the first place so she can raise 'em, she has to use real corpses to make her zombies.

>>49105968
Yes, but in flavor-wise, there are always generic dead bodies around. Sure, I like to try and put context to cards with the lore, as some of the cards really don't fit perfectly into it. Yet, they are still there and still represent spells in the multiverse. And in the lore, libraries are either physical spellbooks or a mental inventory of one's spells.

>>49106051
>libraries are either physical spellbooks or a mental inventory of one's spells
Yup, which is justification for mindsculpting or discard driving one mad, or even the madness mechanic.
The graveyard and reanimating stuff in the graveyard is more focused on post battlefield shenanigans. The two don't mix lorewise. They just keep one discard zone instead of something more logical but confusing for gameplay like a "dead" zone for creatures and a "discard" zone for everything else.

>>49106051

I'm aware of your argument, but the notion of creating an aether-copy corpse, particularly of a creature you don't actually have the capacity to summon, to raise it with necromancy seemed a lot more like rules-lawyering than a character concept.

It'd be kinda like if Kikiki's thing was turning frogs into Eldrazi Titans and Blightsteel Colossus instead of turning Phyrexian Obliterators into frogs. Yes, there are spells that allow for that, but it makes it seem less like an attempt to characterize Kikiki and more like Kikiki is representing my dickass polymorph deck, flavor be damned. You see what I mean?

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>>49105539
>a TOIN COSS decides one of my flakes' fates in the same pool as Praea, conveniently given a bye

>>49105795
It's not that they're summoned, but that they are canon characters. It is interacting too closely with canon. Read my post next time.

>>49106106
Oh, I'm not disagreeing with you. I just personally believe that if it's a card, then it should have some lore built around it just like every other card. It gives the lore and the game more depth to what is generally unexplained. Even if we are just making shit up. If these spells exist, then why not try to make them function properly?

File: looking back wistfully for non-lewd reasons.png (206KB, 702x521px) Image search: [Google]

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would you commission porn of you're waifu, /tg/?

>>49106223
I commissioned porn of Soleil from Fire Emblem Fates.
So sort of?

>>49106223
I'm the one who unironically uses the kink sheet. What do you think?

>>49105539
Also, would it be unreasonable if I submitted a sheet for Haathe that doesn't have her homebrew planeswalker, seeing as that probably disqualifies her

>>49106215
So was Ajani summoning a Nicol Bolas to fight the real Nicol Bolas. And actually winning. I'm not even suggesting that the pseudo-duplicates are even as powerful as the originals.

>>49106266
Ajani was hopped up on the Maelstrom which allowed him to make an avatar of Nicol Bolas, which is basically his original planeswalkers ult, mind
Making Avatars of the guy you're three feat away from makes a lot more sense than "making a body of someone out of your imagination."

Really, when it all comes down to it, all it is really is Vronak's stylized Tutors and Summons. He's not summoning zombie hordes or the actual bodies of these creatures. He is just utilizing cheaper/easier ways to do the same affect as any other summoner.

>>49106313
> making a body of someone out of your imagination
That is literally what summoning is in the lore.

>>49106223
No....

http://imgur.com/a/Zuvy6

>>49106313
And the Maelstrom only made the duplicate more powerful. It didn't give Ajani the ability to summon a duplicate. And Ajani didn't know Bolas pre-ignition. He summoned a duplicate of the Planeswalker. Which is a bit much even for my tastes. Vronak can't do that shit.

>>49106346
Except your casting mana to make a mana via summoning. In this case your trying to make an in universe justification for "cheating" beings in. If Vronak's a reanimator then where's his reanimated like zombies? How does he reanimate anything with problems like >>49105713 points out.

>>49106381
He didn't summon a duplicate of Bolas, he created an Avatar of Bolas, a note even physical mana copy of the dragon. Still, it's just a clone effect. Those are just fine. He had a target, he made a copy. That's justified in both lore and cards. What Vronak does is okay in cards, but not in lore.

I'm back guys, we get it out of our systems ye-

Well, then.
Oh, god, I have to make a ruling on this shit.

If you guys have anything else to say on the subject that hasn't been said, now is the time.

>>49106488
vronak a shit and I don't very much care for him

>>49106488
I think he's okay to fight but I don't expect him to do well if he has to summon his waifus after the fight starts.

>>49106389
Again, they are just Vronak's stylized Tutor spells and Summon spells.

More or less, creating his own spells to function in these particular ways. Not all summon spells are visually the same. He isn't resurrecting a corpse. This, all of those "points" don't apply. People need to get passed the idea that his magic is the same as basic necromancers. Which it isn't. It's just stylized tutors and summons made to function how he knows best.

>>49106488

If we let him in, I'm going to regard him as a necromancer in the same way Liliana is, and grade him accordingly. That said, the only reason to kick him out is if you feel he's breaking the "too much interaction with canon" rule.

NEW THREAD
I know this one only just hit bump limit but I need to got to sleep 4 hours ago.

>>49106618
>>49106618
>>49106618