EDH/Commander General

>>49000680
Depends on how it's chosen. I don't think having people show up with a conspiracy card would fly, since they're designed for draft.

If the conspiracies were chosen at random, then I think it might be fine.

If you're looking for a way to shake things up, then play planechase edh.

>>49000680
How does Zedruu decks usually win?
What are some nasty things to gift to opponents?

I think this has to be checked after the last thread.

http://www.strawpoll.me/11083720

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>>49000755
Forgot pic

>>49000755
Illusions of grandeur, mind lash, other permanents that don't let you play spells

>>49000771
Lol, thought lash

>>49000746
I know they're designed for draft but as far as I can tell there aren't any conspiracies that say anything specifically about "cards you drafted." So I thought it'd be cool having access to a commander and having a conspiracy in the command zone at the same time.

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>>49000680
I hate when people scoops for t1 plains+maná crypt for pic related

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If I have Diplomatic Immunity enchanting a Voltron commander and opponent casts pic related, can I sac the enchantment with Espertai at any point before the DI goes to the grave?

>>49000889
Why? New Thalia isn't even that good.

>>49000755
Steel Golem, Grid Monitor, Aggressive Mining

Dropping Tragic Arrogance to make everyone keep your shitty gifts and then play Armageddon

>>49000979
What the fuck is Espertai

>>49000763
I don't think that was real. It was comically awful

But if it was, holy shit it is the worst LGS on the planet

>>49000763
>>49001119
Police state LGS? What'd I miss?

>>49001147
Read the old thread.

>>49001298
Holy tapdancing fuck, I found it and this is the craziest thing I've read all week.

>>49001076

I would assume evil Ertai

>>49000979
You cannot. Sacrificing the creature is a cost to cast the spell; by the time you have priority to respond, their creature is dead, and the Aura has been placed into the graveyard as a state-based action because it was on the battlefield not attached to anything.

>>49001308
Isn't it completely insane? To the point where I don't think it's real, it's just hilariously "corrupt Slavs being corrupt" stereotypical

>>49001387
Nah, it felt real. If it was fake it was masterful, because he didn't push it too far, and his defense of it came across less as bait and more as "oh my god he's actually been brainwashed"

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What's your spiciest Glissa tech?

What is the best mono-black commander for a mono black EDH deck that revolves around graveyard shenanigans?

>>49001447
One that isn't mono-black.

>>49001447
Sidisi

>>49001447
Geth is pretty fun. He can be rolled ip into a big black deck or a graveyard fun deck.

No greater feeling than copying his effect for all opponents, dumping massive loads of cretures into their graveyards then playing rise of the dark realms to blow them out.

>>49000763
Man that was one of the crazier threads we've had in a while

>>49001447

sidisi is pretty good maybe liliana heretical healer.

>>49001412
See I don't know. /tg/ might be bad at Magic, but by amd large they're not fucking stupid. The fact that the store tracks everyone's trades just doesn't seem possible

I would love for it to be true, just because of how insanely terrible it is

>>49001447
Chainer?

>>49001556
Chainer has that big, red and white target over his head yelling "hit me and everything else will crumble!", tho.
>>49001539
>>49001499
Sidisi needs to basically constantly do in and out from the battlefield, doesn't he?

>>49001540
I mean, it might just be a sort of Stockholm Syndrome. People will voluntarily tell the store "I traded my Mirrorwing Dragon for his Hallowed Fountain" because they either think the system is a good one, or they're afraid of getting banned if they get found out. But seriously, if I walked in and pulled out a Commander deck and got told "we only allow Commander on league nights", let alone "we only allow you to play with cards purchased here" I'd pack right back up, walk out the door, and never come back.

>>49001594
You only cast her once and then you win.

>>49001076
Esper-Ertai, hence Espertai.
>>49001330
Thought so. What a shame.
>>49001431
Viridian Longbow and Heart-Piercer Bow. Executioner's capsule is a no brainer, unless you play in BLACKED meta.

>>49001639
Fair enough.

I'm throwing together a Lazav deck based around various copy effects; I was digging through my boxes and found a copy of Eye Of The Storm.

It's cool, and I think it would do fun things with Spellshift, but how likely am I to just end up scooping in the face of an irreparably damaged game state? I don't want to COMPLETELY ruin everyone else's fun

>>49001640
Viridian Longbow is super neat with Deathtouch, but Heartpiercer is not. I already have capsule. Thanks for the help!

>>49001721
If you just want a fun goofy deck, I advise you not play Eye. It can get really tedious to keep track of.

>>49001744
How is Heart-piercer not good with deathtouch? You can pick off potential blockers when you attack with her. Longbow is 'safer' since you don't put her in any danger, but with her having First Strike and Deathtouch she's already tough to deal with in combat.

>>49001775
Heartpiercer bow deals the damage, not the equipped creature.

I really want to build Rafiq poison. I need the freshest spices.

>>49001795
Oooh, good catch. I was reading what I wanted to read, I guess.

>>49001721
It's a fun card, but only when it doesn't show up too often. In my opinion its good for a laugh occasionally and if your playgroup has a good understanding of the stack it's fun to resolve, just never put a ritual or tutor of any sort under it, I had a game while playing Melek that I put Turnabout and Mystical Tutor under it, the proceeded to cast every spell in my deck and Ignite memories the table out.

>>49001821
Believe me, I wish you were right.

>>49001822
>>49001822
>Turnabout and Mystical Tutor under it, the proceeded to cast every spell in my deck and Ignite memories the table out
How

Also I wish I could do this but my group often ends up in topdeck mode somewhat soon after early game

>>49001845
Probably any draw spell.

Cast Divination, it gets eaten, tutor for any spell to put on top, untap your lands. Cast literally whatever, draw the card you tutored for, tutor another one, untap your lands. Cast the spell you drew, tutor another, untap your lands. Repeat until you tutor for, and cast, Ignite Memories with a storm count of "HO YEAH"

>>49001822

Well, my plan was to Spellshift into it and churn my entire library through into Tendrils Of Agony

>>49001845
>>49001845
It's been a while, but I believe it was:
Boardstate:
Melek
Lands
Eye with Turnabout under it
>Cast Mystical Tutor, trigger eye
>Cast Turnabout untap lands and Mystical Tutor
>Cast instant or sorcery from the top of my library, Melek copies it, trigger eye
>Cast Turnabout untap lands, tutor another instant or sorcery, cast the first instant or sorcery again
Keep in mind that Eye lets you cast the spells, adding to storm count.

>>49001744
Oh right, I didn't realize that.
Nihil Spellbomb, Ark of Blight, Chimeric Coils, Codex Shredder, Copper Gnomes.
Krark-Clan Ironworks and Kuldotha Forgemaster are good too, depending on what kind of deck are you running.
>>49001845
I would say that he was playing Melek. That'd allow it pretty well.

>>49001431
I kinda hate Glissa for her card art. Every time I see her I think she has a snake body, then am disappointed when I see her legs again.

>>49002103
I never even noticed the legs. I like her more now.

>>49002103
I like her promo art. She looks proper phyrexian. The stomach in the real art gives me a chubby tho

>>49001009
>this guy
She's like a better, cheaper Urabrask. I actually run both new Thalia and Urabrask, new Thalia is far more awful to deal with because she comes out early, then taps down lands.

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>>49001447
By far the strongest is Sheoldred, but you will be hated off the table before you can even sit down.

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http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/isperia-flying-kung-fu/

Thoughts?

>>49002242
Only nonbasics. I prefer Urabrask because of the haste, I have no need for more bad Kismets.
That said, I have no idea why to scoop because of her, it's not like she's hard to remove, I'd be more worried for the Crypt

>>49002353
Wow, /tg/ really is bad at magic.

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>>49002369
Ya don't say?

>>49002353

I don't know about scooping, especially in a 4 player game, but Thalia on an aggressive white deck can probably delay your opponents long enough for you to build a sensible early game advantage. Especially if you couple her with fun cards such as Armageddon and Winter Orb.

>>49002353
>only non-basics
>EDH
Come on now.

>>49002369
>he doesn't like my waifu, he must be bad at MtG

>>49002465
>Basics are bad
I suppose you also enjoy losing to Back to Basics

>>49002492
I run 20-some basics, but have you seen the decklists on here, on tappedout, on reddit? People just looove those non-basics

>>49002473
>a card that puts half the table on slow mana and has a creature Kismet strapped on for 3 CMC is bad

>>49002353
>muh scary rocks

>>49002524
>dies to Shock

>>49002545
>dies to removal

>>49000306
Im building him currently, have been asking around for replacements for a few landbases. Heres my list:

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/24-08-16-death-and-taxes/#c2779550

Its really cool, you can combo pretty good and get vblue out of bouncing things from him, and you have enough recursion to play if everyone pays the troll toll. Value out of ETB/LTB, extort and pingers, then finish with fatties or the classic Exquisite Blood/ Sanguine Bonds, or my favorite (which seems to tilt people less) Sanguine Bonds, Debt to the Deathless for 5+ (5 is 40 dmg with 4 players and Sanguine Bonds).

Still looking for replacements for Meteor Crater, Mirrorpool, Sea Gate Wreckage, and Thespian's Stage if anyone has some good B/W lands.

>>49002557
Not that guy, but saying that she's more vulnerable to removal than actual Kismet is a valid point. There's typically a lot more creature removal going on.

>>49002614
>enchantments
>less vulnerable to removal

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Post more "mind games" cards

>>49002626
Yes?

Direct Enchantment removal is limited to White and Green. It's one of the least vulnerable permanent types, competing only with lands.

>>49002755
http://magiccards.info/query?q=o%3A%22guesses%22&v=card&s=cname

>>49002755
Mage's Contest if you're feeling saucy/suicidal

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>>49002755
Casual, but fun as fuck

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>>49002755

I slot this in any edh I can. It makes the durdly control players pissed, but everyone else loves it when I drop it on the table.

>>49002755
http://magiccards.info/query?q=o%3Achooses&v=card&s=cname

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Had a good multi-player game the other day:
>run Nekusar Zombie tribal
>only cast him when I have glistening oil or Grafted Exoskeleton
>start game off early by casting some low end zombies
>cast call to the grave
>everyone sacs and clears field while I get more zombies
>one player boardwipes so I plan to get rid of call to grave by the end of the turn but he casts a creature without thinking
>cast Rise of the Dark Realms
Cast Grave Pact when it hits my turn again
>no one able to cast a damn thing
>"Who's your commander? Where the hell is your commander? Asked an opponent
>I explain to him Nekusar but he doesn't really do anything

Woo. I blame luck that they didn't draw enchantment removal.

>>49002614
I have played her as a commander, people always substimate what she can do and when they are going to remove her i just equip her with swords. even if she is removed, she is not expensive enough to worry and in a DnT shell she can do 20 damage very quickly

>>49003453
Yeah, but you're also playing mono-white. If your argument is "she's not expensive enough to worry about if removed and she can do 20 damage quickly", Isamaru wins even quicker since he's only 1 power weaker and comes out 2 turns sooner.

>>49003453
You can't put Kismet as your commander, so it's kind of a different story than comparing them both as part of the 99.

>>49003474
>Yeah, but you're also playing mono-white.
Yeah, that's so bad... because obviously you don't have artifacts like winter orb and somkestack to help you
>Isamaru wins even quicker since he's only 1 power weaker and comes out 2 turns sooner.
Isamaru don't make your opponent's lands enter tapped. fetchlands become weak to wasteland and any creature that haves haste loses it. if your opponent cast a creature, it can't block in your next turn cause it's tapped, giving you an extra turn of damage. Thalia is the perfect commander to abuse mono-w stax/LD

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I had built this guy a while ago and kinda let it be mostly because I never really thought it would work so well in my playgroup.

Took it out last night against Maelstrom Wanderer, Azami, and Teysa.

Azami spell all their time trying to lock Wanderer out of their combo and Teysa pretty much got mana flooded.

I eventually won by playing Buried Alive, grabbing Phrexian Delver, Kiki-jiki, and Zealous Conscripts then reanimating the Delver to start the infamous Kiki-conscript combo.

Was fun. Anyone want a decklist?

>>49003556
I just disagree. Against some opponents, Thalia puts them back a turn (and yeah, more than a turn if you have Winter Orb, but you don't always have Winter Orb), against other decks it barely slows them down because they're heavy on basics. She's neat as a second Kismet, but she's also a lot more vulnerable than Kismet is. There's better Stax commanders.

Don't know why I'm even arguing with you, since EDHG has decided that Stax is a perfect and unbeatable archetype, and that building "you're not allowed to play: the deck" somehow makes them paragons of skill.

This happened two sessions ago:
>Jeleva (me) vs. Vorosh, Jarad, Hidetsugu, and Hazezon.
>Jeleva is basically a stealcopy.dec
>Game drags on, no one does jack shit.
>Cast Beacon of Tomorrows
>Hidetsugu Shunts it, Vorosh Mischievous Qagnar'd to copy it. I in turn Reiterate my own Beacon (yes this might of been the wrong target.)
>Jarad player to the left of me frustrated because his turn is going to take forever. He only has a Llanowar Elf.
>So after my initial turn its Vorosh -> Myself -> Hidersugu
>Vorosh takes turn, just swings at me for 12.
>My turn: I Worst Fears the Hidetsugu player
>Take Hidetsugus turn...
>I top a Final Fortune from his deck.
>SMIRK
>Have enough mana to cast Gratitious Violence, Hidetsugu, AND Final Fortune
>Literally putting the ball on his court to kill everyone or kill himself
>Everyone even the Hidetsugu player breaks out laughing
>The only lifetotals that were odd were me and Jarad
>He decided to say fuck it and use Hidetsugu, all five of us were laughing our asses off from the whole sequence.
>Me and Jarad at 1 life.
>Jarads turn
>"......swing with...elf?..."
>Me: "You good, man"
>We all laugh for another good 3 minutes
Didnt care if I lost/messed up. That was one of the best endings of a game I experienced.

>>49003633
>So after my initial turn its Vorosh -> Myself -> Hidersugu
Actually it should have been Hidetsugu, Vorosh, you. Your copy of Beacon resolved first, then Vorosh's copy, then the original targeting Hidetsugu. You take additional turns in reverse order of them being created; the extra turn created by the original was the most recently created, so that should have been first.

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>>49002410
This always triggers me. What part of return to your hand do people not understand

>>49003582
yes please

>>49003686
It's the fact that it's on the left of the colon. THAT'S why it doesn't work.

>>49002586

Dude the whole point of taking out those bad lands was putting in more basics

>>49001387
Real or not, that shit's totally going in the big book of legendary /edh/ players next to re mach, Anowon, Serra Ascendant and barbarian RPer.

>>49003910

Anowon's new to me. What happened there?

>>49003326
>the jpg again

Fuck you.

>>49003762
I['m bad at deckbuilding] wasn't sure if 12/11 was pushing it for basics, I always preferred slower mana fixing lands in EDH, but I realize how slow that can make a good deck be.

>pre-ordered ftv: lore
>intended to build a crazy deck from all the parts
>now I just have a bunch of lame 3 colour commanders and nothing fun to do with them
What's the most fun deck you've played? I'm feeling uninspired at the moment. Personally I find b/g and r/g goodstuff to be a complete blast, but somehow jund just isn't as fun.

>>49003937
Guy posted an Anowon sac-based deck looking for advice, and its first iteration contained 29 lands and a Dark Ritual as the entire mana base with like a 4.5 average CMC. No rocks, just basics and a Ritual. People told him that just wasn't enough, but man he was not taking any criticism, it went on across multiple threads and he kept trying to justify not running any acceleration

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>>49003693
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/lets-start-an-undead-riot/

I'm going to soon be adding in Black Carriage + Eternal Mastery for infinite hasty tokens as well. Deck still be tuned. Probably gonna take apart Sygg and put the black stuff in here that's good.

>>>49003762

WHEW LADS

I'm bad at deckbuilding wasn't sure if 12/11 was pushing it for basics, I always preferred slower mana fixing lands in EDH, but I realize how slow that can make a good deck be.

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How to build her?
Flicker?
Control?
Maybe Enchantress?

>>49004042
S T A X
T
A
X

>>49004079
But what's your wincon?

>>49002509
I see it among my friends. Some of them actively try to have no basics at all

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>get an idea for an EDH deck
>excited, start diddling down cards
>look at my list
>need to cut SIXTEEN (16) cards

Someone please help me finishing my Sygg Cutthroat multiplayer deck. Everything can go except for Mindslaver and Worst Fears

http://deckstats.net/deck-10952086-89a4064ff5c4c1dbfa845477c44a8c75.html

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Halfway through my box and I've already got this. Yes, one Daretti is foil. Inb4 hate for buying boxes of conspiracy.

What've you pulled so far, anon?

How newbie friendly is Commander? Is the format still good at the 2-player level?

I ask because I quit magic around the first Ravniva cycle and I am thinking of returning but not to Standard as the cost would be prohibitive. Primarily goal is casual but competitive play, no tournaments. In fact, just playing at home and playing friends and family.

>>49004307
As someone who did the same? There's actually a tutorial for it-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdKI1wj-JpI

>>49004107
That the other players scoop for you

>>49004307
dual commander is pretty newbie friendly as all singletons means less consistent decks and thus more room for doing stupid shit but it can be hard to ge 99 playables together

>>49004307
>How newbie friendly is Commander?
Moderately. It depends on your playgroup. If you're familiar with how the game works mechanically, you'll be fine, but there is a pretty big learning curve if you're trying to build decks yourself from scratch.

>Is the format still good at the 2-player level?
Yup, I play it all the time, it's fine. The games are a bit longer, and you can offset differences in quality of cards with the randomness of a singleton format.

>Standard as the cost would be prohibitive
EDH will cost you more than standard to get established, and you'll never stop tinkering with your deck, but the eternal nature of the format is much better.

>Primarily goal is casual but competitive play, no tournaments.
You can't have casual but competitive play. You can have casual play, you can have competitive play, but combining those together will inevitably result in bad feels. Phyrexian hydra is not a card you want to put in a precon if you want to keep your friends.

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>>49004348
>this guy
Don't start this shit again.

>>49004307
I prefer 1vs1 edh. Multiplayer games are too long

>>49004294
Buying a box is fine.
Not drafting it is criminal.

>>49004359
Duel commander banlist is shit

>>49004005
Don't forget that later it turned out that they used gis mulligan

>>49004211
>get down to like 104 cards last night
>really want to fit the goofy fun cards in
>know that better, but less fun shit would do better
I am conflicted

>>49004406
assuming he's just gonna kitchentable with friends banlists dont mean anything

>>49004406
>not just playing the shitty multiplayer banlist so your duel deck can be versatile, but not under powered

>>49004418
I know I should cut phthysis from my sygg list but slamming that turn 2 and making everyone reluctant to play a single threat for 5 turns is just so fun

>>49004307
Continuation on this: Best way to break into the format for two players?

Was thinking maybe 2 commander preconstructed decks as I've heard some are actually decent.

Any set that particularly good to buy a box from? I know it isn't money efficient vs buying singles but cracking a few packs after years of not playing will be fun.

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>>4900429
Double Daretti guy here.
So this was the rest of the box. The forgotten ancient is foil. I had a lot of 1-4 dollar rares as well, but these were the bombs. Im pleased.

>>49004418
Unless your area is cutthroat, build for fun. You'll enjoy it more.

>>49004477
Basically all the Commander decks are actually VERY servicable right out of the box. Be aware that the Meren deck from the current crop is a bit ahead of the other 4.

If you have patience, wait a couple months; we're getting a new set of 5 decks in November, with the first four-color Commanders in history.

>>49004480
Learn to take pictures you sideways bastard.

>>49004480
I just want a normal art Foil Kaya

>>49004521
Haha, no.

>>49004409
Oh shit that's right, that makes it even better

>>49003556
She's good in the 99 in any GWx deck that can tutor for her when needed, but as the head of a mono white deck she will never be above mediocre as she's the head of above mono white deck. Stax or no stax, mono white is still the weakest colour in EDH.

>>49004646
>mono white is still the weakest colour in EDH.
Ehhh, but that doesn't really mean as much as you think it does.You could just play artifacts with monowhite for cheap removal/board wipes and it wouldn't be that bad. I find white gets a bad rap because the card draw options aren't as immediately obvious.

>>49004017

23 basics would be high for a 3 color deck but it's pretty average for a 2 color deck

>>49004406

Why do you say that?

It seems way better than Sheldons ban list

>>49004775
Nah, I play mono white and use all of the best artifacts for draw and ramp. It is still weaker than anything else at equivalent budget. It's not bad, but it'll never be better than mediocre when other colour combos give access to so much more card advantage. Well, except maybe Boros.

>tiny commanders was a shitty meme
>let's push using two commanders instead!

This will die much faster than tiny commanders.

>>49004778
I used to play a primarily Basic landbase in Ghave and never had problems. You can get away with pretty much anything if enough of your lands are basic Forests.

>>49004775
>aren't as immediately obvious
White pretty much has to rely SOLELY on artifacts for card draw. There's some stuff baked into white, but it either forces you to build around it (Mentor of the Meek), or is expensive (Armistice). All the 'good' draw in white is artifact stuff, which other colors have access to ON TOP OF their own draw power; hell, even red has more draw than white (mostly in the form of looting and rummaging, but still)

White has a terrible time drawing cards on purpose, by design, because white can answer any threat.

>>49004813
Duel Commander's list makes perfect sense... for 1v1. It's built to foster a certain environment, and that environment is not inherently better or worse than multiplayer Commander, just different.

>>49004861
Wait what? Is 2 commanders a thing somehow?

>>49004861
>let's push using two commanders
What are you talking about?

>>49004890

It seems better for multiplayer too

Although it's missing trade secrets naturally, since that card is fine 1v1

>>49004859
>>49004868
But anons, you have access to some of the most cost effective creatures, field-wide anthems, reanimator, removal, counters, and enchantments. Sure, your deck could be better if you splashed something else, and at high tier competitive play it might tapir off, but for average FLGS fare, it's a fine choice.

>>49004890
>>49004904
There's a playstyle going around where players have two commanders at their disposal and the 99 is made up of their colors.

>>49004920
I'm not arguing with you here, but I'd genuinely like to know why you feel it's a better banlist for multiplayer?

Not in an antagonistic way, in an "I am legitimately interested in a discussion on this topic" way.

>>49004925
Mono-white is the weakest monocolor because of how horrible it is with card advantage, full stop. It doesn't matter how good the cards in your deck are if you're drawing 1.2 cards a turn and everyone else is drawing 3.

>>49004890
>>49004904
>>49004927
It was the last Commander Versus video, I think. In a previous video they randomly selected two Legendary creatures and built a deck in their color identities.

>>49004957
It's dumb

It's funny browsing Jeleva threads on Salvation and find that early on she was dismissed as just a commander for casual play.

>>49000755
Primordial ooze
Pyromancer's swath

Cheap value enchantments like detention sphere which can be used as removal then donated without giving the opponent anything to actually use

>>49004957
>It was the last Commander Versus video
The only Commander Versus I accept is with McDarby and West, those are usurpers.

>>49004953
>semantics
In your magical christmasland, sure. In real life, you have one mana exile removal at your disposal. In my magical christmasland, I just use one of the billion artifact tutors in white to grab a Divining Top or what have you .

>>49004925
I'm not saying it's bad, I have poured more love into my mono white deck than any other to the point it's almost completely foil, but the lack of card advantage hurts.

It puts a ceiling on the potential power level that other colour combos font have. This means that, at equivalent budgets, mono white will almost always be weaker.

>>49004927
That sounds... bad.

I remember when my group first started, someone had the brilliant idea of playing 2HG, but every person was playing 2 decks instead of one. It was a fucking nightmare, and I feel like using two commanders would probably go the same way. It would slow everything way the fuck down

>>49004927
Barf. Why don't I just run Brago AND GAAIV then make the game as awful as possible?

>>49004979
Well, it's just that she's the best of a bad bunch to head up a deck that is t1 without a commander. Building around her is still pretty casual.

>>49005038
>In real life, you have one mana exile removal at your disposal
Two. You have two of those, maximum, in a deck of 99 cards.

Also, every artifact card you use to help shore up the weaknesses? Every mana rock to help with your ramping, every Loreseeker's Stone to help with your drawing, those exist in other colors that have draw inherently.

You can Magical Christmasland all you want where you curve out into all sorts of artifacts to help you draw cards and somehow your opponents are spending their turns tapping out for Craw Wurms, but objectively and factually speaking, white has a GLARING weakness with card advantage compared to other colors. Disagreeing with me doesn't make that untrue.

>>49004936

I admit I haven't really thought super long and hard about the differences between 1v1 and multiplayer but the French banlist just seems 150x better just based on what I know about magic that applies to any format, like there's no reason for splashy 6-10 mana cards to be banned while fast mana and vampiric tutor, etc are legal

The French banlist just looks way more reasonable, like the people who made it understand competitive magic, nothing is broken on turn 7, what makes something broken is that it can happen on turns 1-3, because by turn 7, people should have the tools to interact with whatever their opponents are doing, what is oppressive is when people are doing broken shit right out of the gates before you have a chance to defend yourself

>>49005122

It's not really card advantage but card draw, white has great card advantage with recursion and tutors and board wipes

>>49005060

the only custom format I play is Hyper Magic

Three players in a triangle, each playing a 1v1 against the other two. A timer beeps every minute for turn changeover, active player in one game and inactive in the other.

It is extremely dumb.

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>>49005182

>>49005123
>like the person who made it understand competitive magic
Ding ding ding. You've won the solid gold Kewpie doll. Duel Commander is intended to be a more 'competitive' format; regular, multiplayer Commander is not. It's intended to be a multiplayer game with big dumb splashy shit, and that's what the base banlist is crafted to help with. Things like Worldfire are banned not because they're broken (as you said, something that costs that much OUGHT to damn near end the game), but it's unfun. The banlist for EDH is not intended to make the game competitive. Their metrics, stated on the website, are:

* Creating undesirable games or game situations (Worldfire)

* Warping the format strategically

* Producing too much mana, too quickly (I will admit they should probably be a little tougher on this; the only thing I can remember getting axed for this is Rofellos)

* Interacts badly with the structure of Commander

* Creates a high perceived barrier to entry (Power 9 are here pretty much 100% for this reason)

They flat out, 100% state that Competitive balance and 1v1 play have minimal, if any, bearing on their ban choices.

>>49005122
My point was, you can build a monowhite deck just fine, and it will be competitive in most metas if you put the time into it, but you're right, top tier it's just inefficient. You have one mana removal for basically everything, not just path, swords, and mana tithe. Even still, you have the most cost effective board wipes in any colour. In a bullshit competitive meta, you're probably only playing 4 decks anyways, and I just dislike the attitude /edhg/ has with building monowhite in general. It's a fine choice if you want to build it. If you want to build a t1 stomp machine, just build Maelstrom or Animar like everyone else.

>>49005150
When people refer to card advantage, they MOSTLY mean card draw. Yes, blasting someone's Voltron'd up Commander and costing them 6 auras is technically card advantage, but if you're only drawing 1 card a turn you will eventually run out of gas.

Tutors are not card advantage, ever.

Wraths can be positive card advantage, but unless you play Decree of Pain, a wrath is not going to draw you more cards.

>>49005038
Nothing he said was magic Christmas land. White has the worst card advantage, it has 3-4 good tutors, 2-3 good sources of draw and decent wipes that stop being played as much beyond a certain power level. That does not make for good card advantage.

>>49005224
>you can build a monowhite deck just fine
I agree 100%.

>and it will be competitive in most metas if you put the time into it
I don't fully agree with this. You can build the deck fully optimized without a single wasted slot, and it might WORK, but unless you craft it specifically to fuck with your meta, it won't be 'competitive' because you will get absolutely fucking steamrolled by the other players via sheer card advantage. Basically the only way 'competitive' mono-white works is as a Stax deck, and that has to get the engine running very fast to mitigate the lack of card draw, because if you let your opponents get started before you can throw down the lockdown they WILL beat you.

If your argument is "you have 1 mana removal for everything", you are going to fucking lose, because you do not have anything RESEMBLING enough draw power to win a 1-for-1 war of attrition. You will 1000% run out of gas long before they run out of threats.

>>49005235
>3-4 good tutors
>2-3 decent sources of draw
>the standard top, skullclamp, etc. bullshit
That looks like a pretty solid draw package to me. Sure, it's not brainstorm and ponder, but it's good enough to be serviceable, particularly if you build your deck well.

>>49005279

except any color can play top, skullclamp etc

white is just worse off than the other colors

>>49005224
Please don't disregard competitive when you have no idea about it. There are upwards of 50 generals that can be perfectly viable in competitive

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/list-multiplayer-edh-generals-by-tier/

That list isn't perfect, but at least all of their t1 and t2 generals are very strong. See any mono white?

>>49005233

How are tutors not card advantage in a singleton format?

>>49005205

because there are three of us, and three player magic is bad

if it's going to be bad, it might at least be amusing

>>49005299
>this guy
You only need 8-10 draw cards, why does it matter what your running if it's not the focus of your deck? Sure you can strategize and have consistent draw as an essential part of your strategy, or you could tutor your bombs up with a stax setup. The point is, you can build it just fine.

>>49005385

Why is 3 player magic bad? It's my favorite number of players for edh

>>49005341
You play a card. You now have 1 fewer cards.

You get one card back.

That's +0 card advantage. Tutors are card SELECTION, and are good things, but they are absolutely fucking not card advantage.

>>49005279
Except every other colour combo has better option for all of that, except maybe mono red with tutors.

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/white-cis-hetero-male-patriarchy/

Is what I play for mono white, I know I'm missing the land tax/scroll rack combo, waiting on my flgs to get then in. But if I tuned ANY other colour combo that much it would be way, way better. The deck is fun, and can hold its own against most things workout even playing stax, but that doesn't stop it from being a weak colour on its own.

>>49005394
>strategize and have consistent draw as an essential part of your strategy,
This is what we would call "How to win".

If your 'strategy' is "Pray to Serra that I draw one of my bombs or my tutors, and that's after successfully praying that I get my stax setup before someone beats me to death with a 5/5 on turn 3 while I'm hoping for a Land Tax to get past 2 l ands", you will lose.

>>49005394

No one is trying to say that playing a mono white edh deck is impossible, just that it cannot perform as well as ideal decks of other colors

>>49005443

I once read an article about card advantage that says you're wrong

Effective card advantage vs potential card advantage, or something like that

Card selection is part of card advantage

Which is more card advantage, a spell that tutors 7 basic lands to your hand or one that tutors any card to your hand?

You have to take into account dead cards or your understanding of card advantage is juvenile and superficial

>>49005513
>I once read an article about card advantage that says you're wrong

lol

>>49005513
>I once read an article about card advantage that says you're wrong
Call the proctologists because I don't give a shit.

>>49005513
>I once read an article about card advantage that says you're wrong

Are you serious?

>>49005547
But wouldn't you need to give shit to proctologists so they can understand what's wrong with your pooper?

>>49005547

This is just semantics anyway

Just because in your imagination, tutors aren't card advantage, doesn't mean they don't do what you need them to do in the context of magic, which is essentially a battle of card advantage

This is basic magic stuff really, kind of embarrassing yourself

>muh card selection doesn't count as card advantage because it's different

K

>>49005591
I like how my opinion doesn't matter because it isn't yours, but your opinion is fact.

Card advantage is "Having access to more cards than your opponent does". If I sacrifice 3 creatures to draw 1 card, that's -2 card advantage.

Tutors cost me 2 cards to get one effect. That's not inherently bad, because card advantage is not the end-all, be-all of the game, but if you're spending one card to do something, and I'm spending 2 cards to do something, you are beating me in card advantage. White has piss-poor card draw, and the few tutors it has aren't fantastic compared to other colors.

But please, continue thinking that "an article you read" is absolute undeniable fact just because it conforms with what you think, and that anyone who has a dissenting opinion is wrong.

>>49005591
At this point I reckon you're just a troll.

I'm sure someone will give you the "in magic, terms have very specific meanings" lecture, but I'll just give you a (You).

>>49005630

Card advantage is not "having access to more cards", it's leveraging more cards, there's a difference

If you're drawing lots of cards but you can't leverage those cards in your favor (for any number of reasons), then you're losing the card advantage battle, again this is basic magic, and you only seem to disagree on semantics, I don't personally care whether you continue to see things in terms of simple numbers, I'm just trying to help you out so you can stop embarrassing yourself

>>49005649
>>49005630
Oh look, the same two faggots who derail every thread with their bullshit. Anon is correct, selective card advantage is better than aggregate card advantage on a curve. Now kindly, go do something else. You derailed the thread last night with your stax bullshit, and I guess you just like arguing to read your own posts on the internet.

>>49005215
>Producing too much mana, too quickly
They haven't done much on this one

>>49005741
I agree. Usually it's used in conjunction with other things (as in, that's why Mox Jet is banned but Mana Crypt isn't, because only one of those costs 800 dollars), and I feel like they SHOULD do more with it, but I think the 'biggest offenders' would piss off almost as many people as it would placate if they banned them.

>>49005649

Eric Taylor coined the term I believe and his definition was "any process by which a player obtains EFFECTIVELY more cards than the opponent"

Why do you think he used the term effectively? Because he realized that card advantage is not just about the number of cards you've drawn but your ability to negate your opponents cards and find the perfect card for the right situation, etc

>>49005711
I only read one shitpost in this thread and it's yours. If you can, read up and see if I said anywhere about stax, I'm just explaining that 2-3 decent turns isn't enough to say white has good card advantage.

Now you could contribute, or go suck an exhaust, either would be an improvement.

>>49005766
Even if they banned a lot of the fast mana, there are still a number of ways to make an obscene amount of mana

>>49005772
And white still has less of that than any colour, except mono red for tutors.

>>49005741

They won't, because it would involve axing Sol Ring, Prossh, Savage Ventmaw + Aggravated Assault, etc. Prossh is sheldon's baby

>>49005775
>the attitude on this one
If there was one person I could choose not to be on this board, it would probably be you. I bet your the guy who instigates fights with the proxy anon. You're probably the same guy arguing about mental misstep and serra ascendant. You really need to stop "explaining" things no one gives a shit about, because it turns into endless arguments of people repeating themselves over and over, without actually advancing conversation, until someone becomes the bigger person and leaves. Now, please develop some self-awareness and stop fucking posting.

>>49005775
Tutors* damn phone.

>>49005847
>You're probably the same guy arguing about mental misstep and serra ascendant.
No, that would be me.

[Spoiler] He's only good in the early-game, dead draw late

>>49005826
>Sheldon plays a busted commander
Not surprised

>>49005847
As opposed to you? You came in, ignored the context of the discussion and stopped the one thing people were talking about. Don't like it, write something else. Or keep acting like a smug faggot.

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>>49005896
>Or keep acting like a smug faggot.
I will, because I was here long before you arrived, and I'll be here long after you're gone. A discussion is not one person spamming their one opinion over and over again, it's a discussion. There are a couple of self-righteous fucktards that repeatedly shit on everything in these threads, and I'm positive you're one of them. Go get a new hobby you loser.

Are there any expressly Mardu-themed basic land arts? How about for Grixis? Anyone have their numbers?

Everyone used to be so nice to each other in these threads, what happened recently

>>49005935
>loser
>I've been in the super seekrit club longer than you

Damn son, we've got a real alpha here.

Real improvement you've made to the discussion.

>>49005935
this board doesn't belong to (You)
>a couple of self-righteous fucktards
you are representing them well when your entire platform is bitching about other people's habits on a Chinese Cartoon site

>>49005998

Technically he has gotten you two to stop screaming your opinions at brick walls.

>>49006014
And hurling insults is better? Is this /b/?

>>49005313
Tiers are for faggot netdeckers.
Monowhite deck can be 'tier 1', but it requires much more than just commander. Jus because someone has said so in the internet doesn't make it true.

>>49005998
>>49006011
Oh look, exactly two people replied to me, in predictably condescending and argumentative fashion. Seems like I've picked the exact two shitheads normally spewing their tripe on this board.

>>49006041
Keep protecting /tg/ with your quality posts senpai.

>>49006030

Well, it is still 4chan.

There are 49 unique posters in this thread

That seems higher than usual

Fact is that these threads have a lot of the same posters and the threads also have a lot of the same issues

People who are causing these problems know who they are and have to live with that

>>49006038
Care to share a t1 mono white deck?

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>>49006059
I will, thanks anon.

>>49005847
>if I don't like talking about one thing then nobody should
wrong site bucko

>>49005972
For Mountains, Khans has 262 and maybe 263, Fate has 182

Islands have 237 from Shards, there are also some pretty spooky Islands around too

>>49006105
Use some full stops, please. Everyone can recognise you as the guy saying mono white is good, I don't really see why these guys think you repeating the dame thing over and over is somehow acceptable, and yet the opposite isn't.

>>49005972
The Bolas vs ajani deck has all grixis basics for Bolas and all naya for ajani.

>>49006227

You may recognize me is that no full stops guy but I'm not the guy who was saying mono white is good

I also recognize you as the "reee punctuation" guy

Maybe we need trips

>>49006278

You may recognize me *as the* ...

>>49000763
I'll try anything twice.

>>49006278
This is literally the first time I've said it, guess these threads have a lot of grammar nazis.

>>49006311

This may be the first time you've mentioned full stops but it's not the first time you've mentioned punctuation

>>49006330
>>49006278
I`m the reee punctuation guy, and I recognize you as that asshole arguing forever about your brago stax deck. You`re another person I`d like to fuck off.

>>49006330
It is.

>>49006417
With the number of people you want rid of, did you ever just think about finding somewhere else to discuss EDH?

>>49006537
It's exactly three people, and they're all very recent posters. I'm just hoping they'll leave when they realize no one likes them.

>>49006575
Sorry to tell you this anon, but it's more than 3 posters.

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>>49006417
>MY SITE
>NOT YOURS
>MINE!!

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Stupid question here, when I draw the cards from Jin-Gitaxias ability, if I had more than 7 cards in hand am I require to discard down to 7 for clean up or do I keep them in hand?

>>49006417

>hurr you were arguing forever about stax
>implying you didn't start it and continually insult me for no reason while I was just trying to be civil

>>49006804
Gotta discard down to 7, unless you have something that gives you no max hand size

Did everyone in this thread have an awful day today or something? Jesus, so combative

>>49006933
Thanks, wasn't sure about the exact ruling on it

>>49006960

It's only a handful of people really

>>49006960
I'm having good day other than a little disappointed nobody is helping me with the deck I posted>>49002349

>>49006983
Yeah- Jinny from the Block triggers in the End Step, but you discard in the step immediately AFTER that- the Cleanup step.

>>49007050
Git Probe is your friend and I have no idea why it isn't in there

>>49002349

Looks fun, I'd run a few more toolboxy flyers like Aven Mindcensor or Hushwing gryff, although maybe not the latter due to nonbos

>>49007282
I'd run Hushwing Gryff anyway. Only cast it if you need to, but it shuts down so many combos.

>>49007307

Yeah true

>>49007272
Because I don't have it, that is my excuse. At least I have telepathy.

>>49007371

That one is good to have too although it can be kind of unfortunate in multiplayer to have your opponents know each other's hands, you can inadvertently make yourself "archenemy" just in virtue of them being able to take into account each other's hands

>>49007213
Well the discard does help with BUG reanimator but now I know to make sure I have reliquary tower or thought vessel for other decks.

>>49004409
>gis mulligan
What?

>>49004374
>the joke
>you

>>49004294
Draft just finished, opened a Berserk.

>>49007445
Keep replacing cards until you're happy with your hand of 7. It's what the rules committee use for their games.

>>49007213

Also worth noting that necropotence works the same way, if you draw a million with necro, you would have to discard immediately after

Also worth mentioning that there can be multiple clean up steps in a turn if madness is involved

>>49007445
"If you don't like your hand, exile it and draw a new 7. Repeat until you get a hand you like, then shuffle all the exiled hands back in. Do not abuse this."

>>49007482
Not just Madness- if any SBA is checked, or a trigger fires, or a player gets priority for any reason during a cleanup step, the game makes a new one.

>>49007398
Advantage in that my group generally doesn't see this deck as threatening until I get out stormtide or AoI. I can get a git probe cheap from my lgs though so I can find some room for it

>>49007282
>Hushwing Gryff
Dont have it but I could use torpor orb in place. mindcensor is some spicy tech that I haven't seen before.

>>49007511

Right yeah, madness was just the situation that came to mind

Theoretically you could have 8 cards in hand and a Maro with -7/-7 somehow, plus fecundity, then when you discard for turn, the Maro dies, triggering fecundity, you draw another card, then you would discard again

>>49007477
>>49007495
See, that's what I assumed, but I hadn't heard the term gis used. God damn, that's so fucking retarded.

>>49007525

Well yeah you COULD use torpor orb but the whole point was the synergy with your commander, being able to tutor it as part of your normal game plan when you need it

It's also a really cheap card

>>49007482
>>49007511
This is great fun with Gitrog, if you have a hand full of lands and too many cards you can keep discarding lands, drawing cards, forcing you to discard again and if you're lucky draw your whole deck, or rather draw 7 specific cards from your deck.

Two questions.

Rate my build:
tappedout.net/mtg-decks/23-08-16-isamaru-voltron

Second: Best site to buy singles other than Amazon? All I want is cheap even if it takes a bit and I don't wanna be gouged with shipping. Ebay just seems kinda shitty as well.

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>>49007625
Alright I'll get the damn gryff

>>49007616
It's what my group uses, but only with the people we trust. We still build our decks to... y'know, WORK, but when it's just you and a couple friends you trust not to abuse it, it's quicker to do a Gis than to do "Shuffle this set of 7 in, draw a new one, shuffle that in, draw 6, shuffle that in, draw 5".

I've also seen a lot of Modified Gis where you set aside the hand you don't like and draw a new one, but it's not 7 each time, to save time on shuffling. So if I don't like my hand, I put it down and draw a new 7. If I don't like that, I put it down and draw 6. If I don't like that, I put it down and draw 5. If I keep that, I shuffle the 20 cards in front of me back into my library.

>>49007670
>Best site to buy singles other than Amazon?

tcgplayer.com

>>49007670
>Buying cards on Amazon
You can do that?

I buy from Starcity, personally. They charge a bit more, but I have never once gotten an order shorted, never been stiffed, never been given the run-around. If you ask me, you get what you pay for, because every time someone in my area has gotten a MP card that they paid NM prices for, or gotten an order canceled due to a price spike, or gotten cards in a plain white envelope, it's because they bought it from the cheapest store on TCGPlayer they could find.

>>49007682
My group does partials, if you're going to use nonstandard mulligans, why not use one that can't be abused?

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>>49007724
>partials
>can't be abused

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>>49006804
>there will never be an Emracool type edit for Gitaxias
>you will never play Jin and Juice Gitaxias, core balla

>>49007746
Partial paris is way more reasonable than this gis nonsense

>>49007777
Oh Gis can be abused to almighty fuck, that's why I only use it with people I trust.

But saying "partials can't be abused" because gis can be abused harder is like saying getting kneecapped with a lead pipe isn't crippling because at least they didn't saw your leg OFF.

>>49007705
Shill pls go

>>49007833
Is it shilling when someone SPECIFICALLY ASKED for recommendations of where to buy things from?

>>49007805

I like no partials, 7-7-6-6-5-5 etc with scry for less than 7

Very forgiving but no keeping just sol ring and looking for a new 5

Problem is it can be kinda slow compared to partials

>>49007846
When you write a whole paragraph about why paying more for the same thing is better, it is.

>>49007853
>6-6-5-5
What

>>49007881
Instead of first mull is to 7, then to 6, then to 5, etc.

>>49007853
Yeah, the 'modified Gis' is what my group generally uses just for speed's sake. If you don't like your hand you put the whole thing away and draw a new one, but only the first is free. After that you go to 6, then 5, then 4. Then once you keep, you shuffle everything back.

>>49007771
>Jin and Juice Gitaxias, Core Balla

>When you finish hustling, add 7 bitches to your flock

>All other playas ho count is reduced by 7

I tried my best but my editing skills are shit

>>49007887
Yeah, I got that, but...why?

>>49007881

It's just more forgiving, can be pretty shitty to have to go down to 4 cards in edh

This just makes sure everybody is 7 or 6 unless shit is really unlucky and you get 5

>>49007899
If you're going 7-7-6-5-4, that's just normal multiplayer mulligan rules.

>>49003055
Every aggro red deck should include cards like this. Fucks with control completely.

>>49007921
Better chance at a keepable hand? Have you never been staring at a violently mediocre 5 card hand and had to decide whether it was better to keep that or gamble a random 4? Basically any 'alternate' mulligan scheme has one real goal: Minimizing the amount of losses to "Variance assfucked me and I didn't even get to play Magic."

Hell, they changed the mulligan process IN COMPETITIVE MAGIC (not by a lot, but still) for that exact reason.

>>49007932
>>49007945
How bad are your decks, god damn. Your decks shouldn't be that inconsistent.

>>49007936
Right, but I'm not going

"Mulligan."
>Shuffle 7 cards in hand into library, draw new 7
"Mulligan."
>Shuffle 7 cards in hand into library, draw 6
"Mulligan."
>Shuffle 6 cards in hand into library, draw 5

I'm doing

"Mulligan."
>Put hand face-down on table, draw 7
"Mulligan."
>Put hand face-down on table, draw 6
"Mulligan."
>Put hand face-down on table, draw 5
"Keep."
>Shuffle all 'mulliganned' hands into library

>>49007958

I knew you were gonna say something like this, with no details, never seen the deck

>>49007958
Not very? Even the best constructed decks in the world get bad hands sometimes, it happens. We're not playing 4 player EDH games to see who's the most hardcore cutthroat bleeding edge deckbuilder, we're just playing to have fun. I agree that "BUT IT'S A GAME" can be taken too far with houserules (kids in my high school played with "Constant 7", a variant where you drew up to 7 every turn, and "mana dump draw", where you drew a card every time you played a land and could play as many lands a turn as you want), but just tweaking the mulligan rules a bit to minimize the games where you get stuck on 2 lands because your options were "Keep a 2 land hand or gamble a random 4" isn't evil.

>>49007993
Yes, because your level of variance is clearly far too high, I don't need to see the decks.
>inb4 my deck is somehow special

>>49007970
Ah, that's very interesting. I personally wouldn't want to play that way, but it seems well thought out and balanced. Kudos.

>>49008004
Yes, that's why you get the one free, and even more if you need them. If you can't get a playable hand in 3+ mulligans, the problem is your deck.

>>49007970
Honestly that just sounds like it panders to bad deck building. I guess it is quicker though for starting games.

>>49008009

You're just implying shit that you don't know

I agree if you regularly are mulliganing to 4-5 that means your deck is inconsistent, but nobody said that, we just subjectively think it's nice to not have to worry about that happening even 1 in 10 games and we make in 1 in 30 instead

Also we need a board rule that you're not allowed to say somebody else's deck is bad unless you're willing to post your own so we can laugh at you

>>49008028
And I can respect that. Basically, we mulligan three ways at my shop/with my group.

With a small group of core friends that I trust not to be complete assholes, we do the Gis mulligan just so we can maximize how many games of Magic we play where everyone is ABLE to play. Yes, it could be abused insanely, but we trust each other not to.

With the wider group of regulars, we tend to default to the modified Gis for the sake of speed alone.

With people who are new to the area/group/format, we go by the actual Vancouver, and do 7-7-6-5, shuffling each hand in, and doing a scry if you keep a hand of 6 or less.

>>49008045
Again, even with the most perfect deck ever built, there will be a nonzero amount of games where you just have to mull to 4. Not saying it happens a lot, just saying it happens, and the point of people using a 7 7 6 6 5 5 is to help soften that blow. I'm not even the guy who does that, but you asked a question and I explained.

>>49008070
It can if you get lazy, yeah. We try to stay conscious of it.

>>49008091
I know that if you need to add extra free mulligans, it's because someone at some point did consistently mulligan to 5-, and I'm not even saying it was you.

>>49008107
And yet the chance still isn't zero, so it makes bad decks better and doesn't solve the problem.

File: danny west.jpg (37KB, 458x458px) Image search: [Google]

37KB, 458x458px

>>49005032
Our boy Danny West is streaming right now, you could drop by and tell him you miss him.

twitch / the_scrivener

>>49008149

It makes every deck equally better, don't see how it's "pandering" to anybody

However often you think people were "consistently" mulliganing to 4-5 that we needed to institute this rule, you're probably wrong, why would you be right? I'm the one who plays in the playgroup, you're just desperately trying to look for evidence that you're better than average, hence you interpret everything in terms of other people being bad at magic

>>49008222
Extra mulligans inherently pander to inconsistent decks, if you can't see why that is, then there's no point arguing with you.

>>49008260

Why? Every deck occasionally has a bad draw, this rule takes something rare and makes it even more rare

Idk what your point is anyway

>people who play differently from me are bad and wrong
>I may not know a damn thing about their playgroup and decks but by golly I'm going to declare that they suck

>>49008295
How the fuck can you not understand that free mulligans greatly increase consistency, which obviously benefits inconsistent decks much more?

>>49008107
The way you mulligan sounds fine. Multiplayer Vancouver is pretty much perfect, Modified Gis is technically abusable but unlikely to be a problem, and I suppose full Gis is "fine" if you're not playing with dicks, though it's something I would never recommend. At least you understand that Gis isn't a sensible mulligan rule and it relies mainly on people not abusing it.

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9KB, 340x254px

Running both Swiftfoot Boots and Lightning Greaves is probably overkill, right?

All the meta cuck talk and "rath my decks pleus" is all cancer and is impossible to avoid but was much better when we had topical generals. It is known.

>>49008314
Not that guy but there could be an argument for free mulligans making already consistent decks even more consistent, which to me is an even greater problem than making inconsistent decks slightly better.

I really wouldn't be worried about the Zurgo player getting a playable hand every time thanks to free mulligan, I'd sure as fuck be worried about the Maelstrom Wanderer player getting 8+ mana on turn 3 every game.

>>49008345
It depends on the deck, but usually not.

>>49008091
>Also we need a board rule that you're not allowed to say somebody else's deck is bad unless you're willing to post your own so we can laugh at you

Given EDHG's views on magic, I don't think there's many here who could accurately judge it.

Or someone would post a tuned list and be called a foggot for being a tryhard.

There'd be no way to win.

>>49008314

Because it's actually not obvious at all, the effects of this rule is pretty consistent regardless of whether your deck is inconsistent or not

If you were to replace the phrase "much more" with "slightly more" I would agree

Also you're assuming people are adjusting their decks to be less inconsistent and take advantage of more mulligans, that's not the case, as I said mulliganing more than once is pretty rare in my playgroup

You have so many unjustified assumptions

It's not like we instituted the rule after a string of mulligans to 4 around the table, it was literally just a whim, some guy had 0 lands at both 7's and then 0 lands again at 6 so we let him do another 6 just on a whim, and the rule stuck

>>49008358
If I build a super janky combo deck that needs at least 2 certain cards in the opening hand, I'mtwice as likely to pull off my turn 2 kill with twice as many mulligans. If I have an incredibly consistent stax deck,I'll get a good hand at 6 or 7 and not need/want to risk another mulligan.

>>49008395
>as I said
You didn't say that.

>one guy had three no-landers in a row
And thus is where I heavily doubt the consistency of the decks in question.

>>49008345
Perfectly reasonable if you need your commander and have a lot of spot removal in your meta

>>49008436

It literally happened one time dude

there really is no point in talking to you at all, despite having absolutely no experience whatsoever with any of our decks, you have beliefs about them that are completely set in stone and you're unable to even consider the possibility that you're wrong

I need some good sleeves and I'm sick of my glossy ones that stick so bad. Any recommendations? Any brands that come with a few extra so that when one or two split you can replace them without buying an extra pack?

>>49008471
And yet, though you are 100% sure that your decks are well-made, and have continually told me to prove something by posting mine, you have shown none of yours. I have no reason to believe I'm wrong when all you've done is say "that's not true dude, you weren't there"

>>49008471
and you're unable to even consider the possibility that he's right

>>49008523
Dragon Shield Mattes
HyperMattes
Hell, even UltraPro Mattes are better than glossy.

>>49008523
KMC Hyper Mattes/KMC Perfect Fits are my go-to, their availability in different colors is the only negative critique I can give

>>49008317
Yeah, Gis is 100% just "I trust you guys enough to not abuse this, and it maximizes the number of games where we all get to fire on all cylinders".

>>49008533

Who said that? I'm the one who fucking knows the decks involved, I have considered the possibility that he's right, and I also never said that it's not possible some decks in our meta ARE inconsistent

All I've said is what I would know and he would not, given that I have access to our decks and he does not

Here's one of my decks so you can judge for yourselves if this deck is inconsistent
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/enchanted-afternoon/


Not that it fucking matters because we didn't start the rule due to an epidemic of bad mulligans

Honestly it's just the principle of the thing, I don't understand how you people can be so certain of things you have absolutely zero experience with or reference to judge by, and you're coming at me like I'm the crazy person

>>49008523
KMC Hyper Mattes are the king of all sleeves, but a bit awkward for EDH because they only come in packs of 80, so you have to buy 2 at a time and still have 60 left over. To get a 'round' number you have to buy them 5 at a time.

Dragon Shielde Mattes are ALMOST as good as KMC Hypers (like, an A- compared to an A+ is the widest possible gap between them to me), and come in packs of 100, plus the extra like 5-10 Dragon Shield always throws in. I highly, highly recommend them for EDH.

>>49008525

You have no reason to believe anything though, do you not understand that?

You basically went into this conversation with zero facts, only the assumption that you are better than us, and despite receiving facts, you're sticking by your assumption and telling me we're shit

>>49008596
you are, get out

>>49008436
>>one guy had three no-landers in a row
>And thus is where I heavily doubt the consistency of the decks in question.
Do you not understand probability at all? Even the most well built deck can have 3+ unplayable hands / no-landers in a row. Even if everyone played decks with 90 lands, someone, somewhere, would get three no-landers in a row.

Other than Meren herself, how much re animation should a Meren deck have?
I've had her in Prossh for awhile, and I'd like to take a shot at a (slightly) different deck.

>>49008623
you gave us the fact that he had to mulligan down to 4

>>49008627

Don't bother, I should've stopped replying a while ago but I have a weakness for trolls

>>49008649

Are you saying you've never once had to mulligan to 4?

Is that just in edh?

>>49008655
Maybe he's not trolling, maybe he manaweaves and therefore believes it's literally impossible for a good deck to have shit draws.

>>49008668
Yes. Your friend is either really unlucky or bad at mana base construction

>>49008678

>hold on I have to pile "shuffle" before we start

>>49008678
Don't start another fight, we're in the middle of one already.

>>49008687
How many games of Magic have you played? Scratch that, have you ever played Magic, at all?

>>49008668
I did it by accident a few times when Partial Paris was a thing, because swapping cards like that is fun, but not since.

>>49008705
Yeah, no more fighting, it's against the spirit of EDH and Sheldon who's always right about everything wouldn't want that.

Let's discuss Sol Rings instead.

>>49008687

He's not either, usually people either keep 7 or occasionally go to 6

Not sure I believe that you've never had to Mulligan to 4 though, how long have you been playing magic? Do you only play edh?

Show me your deck so I can use the tappedout play test and see how it mulligans

>>49008741
Show us your great decks first.

>>49008728

Post decklist

>>49008766

I already posted one, here's another

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/time-crimes/

>>49008741
Your decks seem fine, but I playtested the Azami one as I'm considering building her.

No lands until I mulled down to 4, then got 4 Islands.

I found it rather amusing given the shit in this thread at the moment.

>>49008632
A decent clip. Meren is bonkers, but she's got a huge target painted on her face, so if you're relying almost solely on her, you are FUCKED if she dies.

I'd say put about 6-8 slots for either redundant reanimation OR protecting Meren, and then 2-4 slots for the other.

>>49008808

Yeah the Azami deck has a low land count, if somebody wants to say that deck is incomsitent, I'd hear them out, but in my experience, flooding when I draw a million cards has been more common than not having enough lands in the early game

>>49008885
I also believe your Azami deck seems a bit inconsistent, but not horribly so. I have successfully played much more inconsistent decks (like my shitty Ephara list).

Not that improving consistency would make it impossible for one to have to mulligan down to 4, mulliganing down to 4 is just something that will happen sooner or later if you play MtG long enough, regardless of the deck you're playing.

How do you guys do tokens? Do you only bring the tokens your deck uses, or do you have a bunch of 'all purpose' tokens in case someone else needs one?

Do you keep tokens 'with' the right decks that make them, or just in one box?

Do you use the official Magic tokens? Unofficial ones that MTG Artists make? Handmade ones? Cards from other games altogether? Playing cards?

How do you represent multiples- do you have multiple token cards, or just use dice?

Do you have favorite token arts that you prefer, or just whatever works?

>>49008885
Nah man, I'm with you on that, it's the sort of deck you could even go lower if you put in the busted mana rocks.

The curve is low and you run a lot of early game draw/filtering to dig into land drops. Maybe keep the 34 and add a Chrome Mox. They're not too pricey since EMA, and the card disadvantage wouldn't be too big a blow.

Maybe consider going snow basics with scrying sheets?

>>49008632
Run the good stuff like Reanimate, Corpse Dance, Animate Dead, Living Death, and Eternal Witness. Maybe Phyrexian Reclamation, Sheoldred, Regrowth, and Beacon of Unrest depending on how the deck works.
And if you can get your hands on one, Xiahou Dun is amazing in Meren.

>>49008981

Yeah I've been thinking about snow covered islands since I added exttaplanar lens

That could be a nice little package, thanks for the suggestion

>>49008966

>How do you guys do tokens? Do you only bring the tokens your deck uses, or do you have a bunch of 'all purpose' tokens in case someone else needs one?
>Do you keep tokens 'with' the right decks that make them, or just in one box?

I keep most tokens in a separate box, except for my Darien deck which has a seperate compartment for them.


>Do you use the official Magic tokens? Unofficial ones that MTG Artists make? Handmade ones? Cards from other games altogether? Playing cards?

I use official ones where I can. THere are no sand warrior tokens, so for Hazezon Tamar I use the blank tokens fromt he old World Championship decks with doodles of middle-eastern gentlemen looking angry on them.

>How do you represent multiples- do you have multiple token cards, or just use dice?

Bit of both.

>Do you have favorite token arts that you prefer, or just whatever works?

Anything really.

>>49009029

Whilst the card is a bit janky, I also like Mouth of Ronom in mono G or mono U decks.

The opportunity cost is pretty low to get another source of removal, even if it is telegraphed.

Can disrupt a combo if the opponent has to try to deal with one of your lands before they can drop a combo piece creature.

>>49008812
Follow up: what do I put in to protect/save my graveyard?
I assume that there has to be some good stuff to stop Bojuka Bog from ruining my day.

>>49009118

Rather than putting in any particular cards for it, I recommend only filling your graveyard with a couple reanimation targets and stuff at a time, then you can reload when they bog it, and wait til you have removal for rest In peace before filling your yard again

>>49009029
If you switch to snow basics, you get access to Scrying Sheets, Heidar, and Rimewind Taskmage, which are all really sweet cards.

>>49008966
I have a bunch of tokens from when I used to play Yugioh so I use those because it bothers people

Oh look, it's another "guy who uses no punctuation ruins the whole thread" thread.

>>49009350
To be fair, the "only post how I want or get off" guy is even worse.

>>49009350

>it's another people stop arguing just long enough for some fag to try to stir up an argument again

>>49009387

>....episode

>>49003055
It's so good in animar too, you get two cast triggers off each creature.

New thread.

>>49009451