Why is Age of Sigmar so hated

>>48976706
Answeing your question in order:

- No
-Yes, but not better
-Yes, if you're a mentally handicapped person

In the odd chance that this isn't bait.

>Is Age of Sigmar fluff as good as Warhammer fantasy?
Not even close, Warhammer fantasy has had 30+ years to develop, AoS has been around for a year.

>are the rules different
VASTLY different

>or better?
see skub

>would you recommend it to new players?
As in, your first wargame? Sure, from my understanding its simple enough ruleswise, so shouldn't be too hard to grasp, fucking expensive, though thats all GW stuff anyway.

Maybe look at some skirmish level stuff for cheaper entry level, I quite enjoy Malifaux and Infinity.

>>48976706
>-Is Age of Sigmar fluff as good as Warhammer fantasy?
No. Sigmarines can eat a dick.

>-are the rules different or better?
They are very hard to compare under this topic. 40k and AOS are closer for instance.

>-would you recommend it to new players?
No. Instead I would have a look at the 9th age. Looks promising.

>>48976829
>9th age

Fan fiction that is actually worse then End Times.

>>48976978
>Fan fiction that is actually worse then End Times.
I disagree. There are not many things worse than End Times and 9th age is not one of them.

>>48976978
>Fan fiction that is actually worse then End Times.
I disagree. Not many things are worse than End Times and 9th age surely is not one of them.

>>48977020
>>48977042
Nice shilling retard.

>>48976706
>-Is Age of Sigmar fluff as good as Warhammer fantasy?

Warhammer had 30 years to focus and refine it's story to help develop a distinct story style and sits in a fairly low-fantasy sort of niche. Sure there is magic and monsters and whatnot, but Warhammer always tries to paint these things less as magical and mystical and more as giant wheels of teeth that will fuck you up.

Age of Sigmar is pushing pretty heavily for the High Epic Fantasy sort of material - think Hindu mythology. They are aiming for the fantasy epic to be as stupidly over top as 40k is.

>-are the rules different or better?
Vastly different. The two games are essentially non-compatible from a mechanics standpoint. As for better, it depends on what sort of game you like. They only recently figured out that they should have a points system in place.

>-would you recommend it to new players?
Not especially. The rules are easy enough, but the price of miniatures is prohibitively expensive. And you get a real mixed back with the community thanks to all the vitriol it's attracted from the whole End of Times shit.

>>48976706

>fluff
meh? WFB was pretty dry, AoS is kind of trying for more drama and bombastic stuff. I don't care for either that much.

>rules
WFB rules were a clusterfuck. AoS rules are very quick, but could use improvement.

Still, nice to have games not take all day.

>new players
If your area plays AoS absolutely yes
otherwise, only if you like the models

the rules are free and just four pages. Give them a read if you haven't

>>48976706
As a fellow new player, I'll say that the game is easy to pick up.

I wouldnt hey involved in it if you didnt have a group of friends to regularly play it with.

The lore sucks, and thats without me knowing anything about the old lore.

>>48977099
>STOP LIKING THINGS I DON'T LIKE

>>48977099
>Nice shilling retard.
You are retarded.

>>48977124
Are you talking about the insufferable 9th age samefags that never shut up about how end times ruined their fantasy before ranting about their own shitty fanfiction?

>>48977141
Fuck off to your containment board and keep discussing your furry ind armies and raging over end times when the first post asks you not to.

>>48977192
>Fuck off to your containment board and keep discussing your furry ind armies and raging over end times when the first post asks you not to.
You truly are retarded aren't you?

>>48977207
Nice to see you have no arguments beside raging over your dead setting and shitposting.

>>48976706
>incredibly stupid plot possibly written by CWC's long lost secret twin brother
>it was all according to Tzeench's plan
>even the part where Krell(undead allowed to live by Khorne) kills Sigvald the Magnificent(whom Khorne should really like due to the RAGE)
>especially the part where Sigmar decides to kidnap Slaanesh, remake the world with no powers, remake the fucking orks and call them something else, remake all the horrible undead that absolutely fucked the empire, and give Chaos a fighting chance.

As someone with absolutely no history in any Warhammer property and no clue about what he is talking about, I'm assuming it's because they took WH40k and went "except without the guns" and people took that as extremely lazy.

>>48977221
>Nice to see you have no arguments beside raging over your dead setting and shitposting.
Neither do you. You have argued about fuck all, and you know it.

>>48977264
9th age is a desperate attempt by fans to cling to warhammer fantasy. They claim to hate End Times yet base their new lore on it. They complain that Age of Sigmar is badly written when their own fluff is horseshit. I personally believe that if you liked the setting just ignore end times and keep with the never advancing story. Warhammer Fantasy is dead and no amount of fanfiction or bad third party miniature kickstarters will bring it back.

Warhammer Fantasy Battles is dead, long live Warhammer Age of Sigmar!

>>48977255
Warhammer Fantasy:

>Had been around for about 30-ish years
>Not exactly the most unique setting but still had some great stuff
>Generally had a mixture of high fantasy elements alongside fairly grim and low fantasy elements
>Game-wise typically focused on large battles between units of soldiers
>Fairly complex rules

Age of Sigmar:
>Very new, the end result of a series of books called The End Times that killed off the Warhammer Fantasy setting
>Generally appears to be a more high fantasy setting that focuses on big heroes and battles
>The game is considerably less complex than Fantasy (4 pages of rules compared to a massive book)

>>48977345
>9th age is a desperate attempt by fans to cling to warhammer fantasy.
And? What is wrong with that?


>They claim to hate End Times yet base their new lore on it.
From what I know, 9th age doesn't really contain any lore whatsoever. Even if it did, I would not care.

>They complain that Age of Sigmar is badly written when their own fluff is horseshit.
I don't care about the fluff. What makes AOS bad is the rules. I haven't gone over the general's handbook (perhaps they fix everything?), but the rules before sucked.

>Warhammer Fantasy Battles is dead, long live Warhammer Age of Sigmar!
Fuck you!

>>48977428
9th age is a continuation of the 8th edition ruleset yes? The edition was was universally despised? All editions after 5th were a mistake.

>>48977345
>. They claim to hate End Times yet base their new lore on it.

Are you confusing Endhammer with 9th Age?

>>48977345
>They claim to hate End Times yet base their new lore on it.
This always bugged me about 9th Age. End Times was 90% dogshit so why base your retcon on it?
Wouldn't it make more sense to write off End Times entirely and place it at the end of Storm of Chaos?
>Chaos actually suffering a proper defeat for once and retreating to lick its wounds
>the various good guys getting hopelessly overextended going after them
>Nagash gearing up to sucker punch *everyone*
But no, let's keep pretending there's something worth salvaging in End Times.

>>48977483
That was*

>>48977495
Most likely I have.

>>48976706

Well I can see why people would be pissed. All that work and money you spent going kinda down the drain.

But personally as a guy who never got into WHF but just started AoS I really like it personally. I like how I only have to drop like a 100 bucks to get into it totally. Wasn't that bad.

>>48977247
Literally none of that last paragraph happened

>-Is Age of Sigmar fluff as good as Warhammer fantasy?
No. The setting is simply inferior in terms of content and comprehensiveness.

>-are the rules different or better?
Different yes. 8th was bad, but I can't call Age of Sigmar any better considering the poor core rules and variety of broken shit.

>-would you recommend it to new players?
It is easy to learn the core rules, so maybe. The game is very expensive though in comparison to the competition. If you are fine paying $100 for three horsemen, then I would say that it is the game fore you. Otherwise Infinity, Malifaux, Warmachine, Kings of War, are all cheaper and better designed than Age of Sigmar, making them good choices for beginners.

>>48977814
It's literally only that one box that has that ridiculous price, and WHFB wasn't much better.
$100 for five FINECAST horsemen

>>48976706
AoS' main sin is that it's different

>>48977814
>$100 for three horsemen.
Just spent $80, got a giant dinosaur, 8 riders, and twelve soldiers.
So clearly it's not that expensive across the board.

>>48978051
Its main sin is that it killed WHFB. If it was a spin off rule set with some exclusive models it would have been far better received.

>>48978124
Don't forget the Orc box that costs LESS than one of it's component parts in the UK

>>48976706
With a clear conscious I cannot recommend this awful game.

I suggest you look at the alternatives that the WHFB players moved to.

>>48978141

Warhammer Fantasy Battles killed Warhammer Fantasy Battles... 8th edition required so much initial investment to get into in the first place, let alone the competitive asshats that populated the community, that it's a miracle the game hadn't collapsed sooner. And I say this as a WHFB Empire player.

>>48978499
That doesn't mean that they had to axe the setting and replace one bad ruleset with another. They could have followed suit with something similar to the LotR rules, which were legitimately well designed.

>>48978361
Have you ever played it?
Have you ever looked at it other than what the neckbeards say

>>48978499
Pretty much
Game wasn't selling well so GW had to kill it, reboot it, or sell it

>>48977114
>AoS rules are very quick,
And bad for quick and simple game.

>>48978499
>GW killed Warhammer Fantasy Battles...
fix

>>48978617
Yes I have played Scrumhammer with my Empire army and the experience was pretty boring. Everyone basically piled into the middle.

It has potential but it's far from fulfilling it at the moment and in GWs hands I doubt it ever will.

>>48976706
First of all, I'm an AoS llayer myself

>NO
>different?
Yes
>better?
Very skubtastic question
I'd say so as they're simpler, shorter and easier to remember and also free
>recommend to new players?
Definitely, it's much easier to get into than Fantasy was

>>48978010
>It's literally only that one box that has that ridiculous price,
All new cavalry boxes has ridiculous prices and indvidual models too.

>>48976706
The first two questions are purely subjective, although I would tend to say the WHFB wins out. But, that last one:
>Would you recommend it to new players?
Yes. Yes. Yes, yes, a million times yes. It is simple, short, and to the point, yet still allows for strategy. Its minimialist. Its compact. But MOST importantly, its easy as fuck to play.

Let me explain; Prior to AoS, there was no "Beginners" Wargame. If you wanted to play, you'd not only have to buy, build and paint a army of minis, but also dedicate yourself to learning a 100+ page CORE Rulebook, along with a seperate army book of your army. Than you'd have to drag your army around, find another oppenent to play, and hope that he knew the rules as well as you did, less you spend a day and a half trying to get through a single fucking game, and thats not bringing money into the equation. And EVERY. GAME. Suffers this dam problem. They want you buy and read a 50 page rulebook, than assemble a whole army, and tha

With AoS? You have everything core wise on 4 pages, and anyone can download the specific warscrolls for units. In my town, literally no one played Warhammer. Plenty of people collected, but nobody dared play. That was until, Age of Sigmar came out; suddenly, we could help completely new people play a full game within a hour or so. That was mind-fucking-boggling.

So don't listen to people who say that other games are easier to learn; they're just plain wrong. Now, does that mean the AoS ruleset is good? Probably not. Infact, I know that when properly played, Malifaux and Infinity are far more fun. But, on the other hand, that takes far more time, effort and pure dedication to help build a community from scratch.

This is a fact: There is no easier game to learn than AoS

>>48980113
>t; Ward

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>>48979750
Yeah, because they dwarf both Blood Knights, Blood Crushers and Chaos Knights in size.

>>48980113
>They want you buy and read a 50 page rulebook, than assemble a whole army, and tha
FFG cheaper and Infinity rules are free. Go back to AoS general.

>>48980205
It's still plastic with bad design which somehow more expensive then metal CB bikers.

>>48980217
AoS is free as well you dolt;
And guess what? Heroclix is just as cheap, if not cheaper. Guess that makes Heroclix better than anything FFG has released, huh?

>>48980235
>bad design
Purely subjective, but regardless, its 3 times the size of a CB biker as well. Its more comparable to a TAG rather than a Biker of all things.

>D-Do you guys hate AoS yet?

Age of sigmar managed to make Savage Orcs have personality and a concept.

That's something WHFB hasn't done for 30 years.

>>48980260
>AoS is free as well you dolt;
Only 4 pages.
>>48980426
>Age of sigmar managed to make Savage Orcs have personality and a concept.
It was WoW, not AoS.
Also
>personality
>not even a full-fledged armynot even

>>48977496
>>Chaos actually suffering a proper defeat for once and retreating to lick its wounds

You mean like they always do since the Great invasion? And all the Everchosen bar Archaon? Suck the biggest dick you fucking faggot.

>>48977020
$0.01

>>48980579
>Savage Orcs
>Not a full fledged army

Bonesplittaz have their own army book, backstory and culture.

It's funny how behind and stupid Anti-AoS retards are.

>>48980579
Slav please. Your trolling has grown stale.

Explain how the Bonespilttas are anything like WoW "Orcs

>>48980579
Thats because AoS only needs 4 pages to create a wargame playable by anyone.

>>48980609
>Bonesplittaz have their own army book, backstory and culture.
So as the fireslayers, yet still they had only 2 infantry units and one monster.
>>48980616
>Explain how the Bonespilttas are anything like WoW "Orcs
They are literally Bonechewer clan rip-off.

>>48980654
Too bad the 4 pages unplayabe withh all these rule holes as endless summoning or 1+ save.

>>48980656
>They are literally Bonechewer clan rip-off.

Wrong. Did you just say this because the WoW clan had the word bone in it? You failed.

>>48980656
>Literal Bonechewer clan ripoff

Bonesplittaz are Tribal Hunters who revere large beasts thinking their spirits reside in the bone sand so craft weapons of power with them.

Bonechewer Clan were cannibals who wore bones.

>>48980678
>1+ Save

Rule of 1 nigga, also, we had 1+ saves in WHFB you literal moron.

>>48980690
Also Bonespilttas don't use Armoured or metal weapons and they are certainly not "Chaos Orcs".

>>48980709
If Anything Bonesplittaz are one of the greatest aspects of Age of Sigmar because it shows Orruks as being more than dumbasses with one note.

Orruks worship Gorkamorka in his guise as "Da greatest Hunta" so Bonesplittaz are actually LESS likely to kill you outright because bigger game is best.

Unless it's a Morboy, but they're crazy fucks.

>>48980680
>Wrong.
Nope the same "barbarians even for other orcs" oh yeah, I forgot about Gul'Dan model.
But you kind of right, not only Bonechewer, Ma'Ghar and Bleeding Howl from WoD too.

>>48980742
>because it shows Orruks as being more than dumbasses with one note.
So it's noble savages, you are right, totally not Warcraft rip-off.

>>48980706
>Rule of 1 nigga,
Doesn't appear in 4 pages.
>also, we had 1+ saves in WHFB you literal moron.
Yeah, but not in all armies.

>>48980903
Nope, they are not "noble savages".

>>48980888
>Nope the same

Prove it.

>>48980903
>noble savages thus Warcraft
This is almost like saying "Orcs thus Tolkien". They're definitely far more savage than noble.

>>48981000
They are not noble at all even.

I've been playing wfb since 3rd edition. The flgs is owned by friends who have played since 4thish. We all play 9th age now with pre end times fluff.

Play what you can find games of in your area. If you are lucky that will be warmahordes/infinity/frostgrave for skirmish, 9th/kings of war for mass battle.

AoS has very high fantasy fluff. I think it's very very bad. If you like super high fantasy then you might like it more than I do.

GW makes technically good models. You decide if you like the new WoW aesthetics vs the old school witcher aesthetics.

>>48980888
>>48980903

>Bunch of Abbo orcs
>MUH WARCRAFT

You Anti-AoS retards REALLY grasp straws don't you

>Orcs less likely to gut you than other brands of orcs
>Must be noble savage

I'm laffing, Bonesplittaz would probably kill you for fun anyway, it's just not their only idea of fun.

>>48981034
>I play 9th Age

Nobody plays 9th Age but the 9th Age faggots.

Also, nobody "Plays with fluff" you fucking retard.

>You decide if you like the new WoW aesthetics vs the old school witcher aesthetics.

Jesus fucking christ did you just find warhammer in 2012?

>>48976706
>is Age of Sigmar fluff as good as Warhammer fantasy?
No, and it's not really a problem of time or development, it's merely that HW don't care about writing good shit anymore

>are the rules different or better?
The rules are shit to the point they don't even fix most of the problems that made the game unfun in the last edition of FB, despite being 4 pages long.

>would you recommend it to new players?
I'd probably recommend Warmahordes before AoS, desu.

>>48981059
Slavposter, just stop.

>>48981049
AoS fag saying fluff is unimportant. I guess you have to when your fluff is so gay.

Old warhammer was low fantasy. A good comparison is Witcher, the aesthetics are very similar. AoS is high fantasy, just like WoW, with over the top armor magic etc. That isn't even an insult, many people prefer high fantasy, he'll even d&d/pathfinder are similarly high fantasy per default.

>>48981086
>Old warhammer was low fantasy

Not really. It was very high fantasy. There some parts in it that made it seem like low, though.

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>>48981086
>Fluff is so Gay
>Had more fun with the "Fluff" in decades.

Also Warhammer? Low Fantasy? I'm laffing mate.

Warhammer Fantasy is high fantasy as fuck, it's just gritty.

The Old world was like the Brother's Grimm Fairy Tales.

>>48981068
What the fuck you're talking about faggot ?

>>48981097
I would consider it low when looked at relatively... Not as low as game of thrones but miles lower than Eberron

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>>48981167
>Miles lower than Eberron

I'm still laffing mate.

>>48981135
The thing pictured is a rare as fuck event and many citizens would never know lizard men even exist. It's lower fantasy than AoS and just about any other major fantasy setting in tabletop gaming

>>48981049

The guy you're responding to was doing nothing but offering an honest and frank appraisal of the situation. They offered great advice, no bias and even pointed out reasons OP might enjoy AoS.

You respond with vile, vitriol and by generally being a shithead.

I don't know what you play, and I don't care - you're just a perfect example of what an asshole looks like in this community.

>>48981165
It's some AoS meme/delusion that every single anti-AoS post is made by one single (slavish) troll. Pretty sad, actually.

>>48976706

ITT: People who have never played AOS

I personally don't think the fluff is better- it's like a bad DnD campaign in that a lot of "cool" stuff happens, but it's so over the top that nothing really matters.

-The rules are very different. I personally think they are better. People see the simple rules of AOS and think it's a simple game for retards, but in my experience there's a lot of tactics in the game that the meta has not figured out yet. A lot of games are simple in theory but complex in practice. Also warhammer fantasy was fucking boring

yes I would recommend it. The models are gorgeous, and are the cheapest GW models have ever been.

>>48981195
You know they have magic fucking trains in Eberron? Fucking street lights are magical you dumb git. Goddamn robots you limey fuck.

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>>48981209
>>48981232

Yeah, the Common citizen nevers see Lizardmen, All they see is normal every day things and nothing ever fantastical or otherworldly.

Because after all, Warhammer fantasy was always realistic and low Fantasy.

>>48981217
>yes I would recommend it. The models are gorgeous, and are the cheapest GW models have ever been.

So blatant lies undermine your whole post.

>>48981217
>and are the cheapest GW models have ever been.
>model prices are up
>people don't care because start collecting boxes stay the same price
I guess the marketing guys were right about one thing

>>48981253
>You can buy a 1900 point Beastclaw army for £135

>>48981214
It's not a meme. He is in this very thread. If you think that Slav isn't real than ask WHFB and THWH general. He has been trolling them for a whole year. He flip flops between supporting AoS and opposing it, whatever suits for him to troll with.

>>48981213
Because the guy is stupid and his Opinion is stupid.

Saying "WoW Aesthetic" when AoS looks more like older renditions of Warhammer than the 6e starting mongoloids doesn't mean shit.

>>48981263
>tfw you can build a 2000 points empire of dust army for the same price
>tfw 140+ minis
GW shills are kinda out of touch.

>>48981244
The average citizen never sees nor believes in shaven, fimir, chaos proper (just the occasional mutant they conflate with beastmen) airships (which are rare and only used for the biggest of deals)

>>48981264
He's taken to trolling Infinitry threads too using AoS as bait.

>>48981286
>140+ minis that look like absolute dogshit

>>48981214

That meme is older than that. It's pretty much an anti-GW post that's attributed to that fucking Slav.

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>>48981167

>low fantasy

>Rifles, helicopters, tanks, elves riding dinosaurs, giant magical feet coming from the sky, rats with miniguns, portals to other dimensions, entire civilizations of the undead

>>48981282
You are so fucking wrong that it is weird.

>>48981300
>Tons of Folklore surrounding Chaos beasts, Vampires and the Undead in general

>A GIANT FUCKING CHAOS MOON IN THE SKY THAT RISES FULL EVERY YEAR IN SUPER-HALLOWEEN.

>>48976706
Lore is shit and the game is simplistic but kinda fun when you don't want to organize a large game. Its also easy to homebrew for.

>>48981253

I bought 4000 points of Orcs for under 300 bucks. Use the internet, fucktard.

>>48981282
AoS aesthetics look more like LoL than WoW. WoW may be bad but its aesthetics is better than that.

>>48981304
>He's taken to trolling Infinitry threads too using AoS as bait.

I know. I have seen when I was browsing the threads.

>>48981314
Nope, the guy has a distinctive posting style and bad Engrish. You cannot mistake him.

>>48981304
They look better than their gw counterparts tho.

>15 years old box of ultra static zombie
>30€
kek

>>48981333
>>48981317

I find it funny all the video game references are coming from people who you know either never played Warhammer before 2012 or has just never played warhammer period.

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>>48981349
>They look better than their gw counterparts tho.

Hahahahaha

You pay cheap, you get cheap bro.

>>48981244
>Because after all, Warhammer fantasy was always realistic and low Fantasy.

Warhammer swings from Low to High Fantasy, and everything in between. In particular, many areas around The Empire or the Border Princes are typically Low Fantasy for the most part. An article in White Dwarf magazine even gave tips on how players can structure their armies to be Low Fantasy.

Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay on the other hand defaults and mostly stays there. Although you can encounter very potent supernatural elements, it usually means you're in way over your head.

>>48981315
Tech doesn't change whether a setting is high or low. Name a major tabletop fantasy setting that is lower, then I'll name 5 that are higher.

>>48976706
I would definitely recommend it to new players.

It's easier than either 40k or Fantasy ever were, but still has enough depth in the units to provide room for your skills to grow until you're ready for a more involved game.

It's expensive, since it's a GW game, but less expensive to get started than 40k (thanks to those sweet $85 Start Collecting boxes), and substantially less expensive than Fantasy ever was.

>>48979750
Not true at all. Most of the old cavalry boxes are reasonably priced. You can get 10 Boarboyz for $50.

>>48981342
>Nope, the guy has a distinctive posting style and bad Engrish. You cannot mistake him.

Dude, how many people do you think have pretended to be the Slav when trolling?

There probably is a Slavshitposter, but I'm confident that /tg/ dipshittery just uses it as an excuse to trollpost, like Jim Profit, RedMachine D or Anymouse.

>>48981353
Nigga I have the plastic goblins from the starter that had tips so sharp you could have a mini dangling from your arm from reaching over them and not even feel it. Get out of here with that shit

>>48981035
>>Bunch of Abbo orcs
>Bunch
>Literally orruks release are "Iron Horde"-release
>Even with Protodrakes and Gul'Dan
>Bunch
kek
>>48981282
>Saying "WoW Aesthetic" when AoS looks more like older renditions of Warhammer
Source your ass? Because sigmarines (in their prime colour scheme) looks exactly like Alliance paladins.
>>48981304
>He's taken to trolling Infinitry threads too using AoS as bait.
Excuse me, but it was different anon, not me.

>>48980235
Plastic kits always cost more than metal.
The cost of making a mold for a plastic kit is enormous compared to vulcanizing some rubber molds around a production cast of the model.

My only real complain with GW's plastic kits is their insistence on making them multi-purpose, charging extra for those options, and then always ending up with an optimum way to build the damn things anyway, leading to a bunch of useless bits that you paid extra for in the first damn place.

>>48981403
Sorry, 2009.

Doesn't matter, you're a post 6e retard and you know nothing about Fantasy.

>>48981368

Low fantasy is relatively "believable" medieval fantasy.

High fantasy is crazy bonkers shit.

So yes, dwarves flying helicopters and a guy firing a 'repeater pistol' out of a fucking steam-powered tank does make it high fantasy.

Hey, remember that time the Skaven used magic to pull that artificial moon made of magic rock closer to the world?

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>>48981353
Shit if I wasn't at work I could have posted WDs and army books from 2004.

>>48981370
>GW games
>skills

>>48981432
>make it high fantasy.
Because..?
Hint: try to google DaVinci.

>>48981432
>Hey, remember that time the Skaven used magic to pull that artificial moon made of magic rock closer to the world?
>end times shit
Talk about newfag shitters

>>48981405
Oh Slavposter, just stop it. You're so autistic.

The fact that Ironjaws are blatantly Black orcs is hilarious.

You made the same shitposting posts in AOS general and you were laughed at.

People compared the Mawkrusha to Tigrex more than a Protodrake because they have literally nothing in common besides being a dragon-like creature.

>>48981405
Nah, its you. Same posting style and bad English.

Also why are mentioning the Ironjawz when the anon was talking about the Bonespiltterz. You are getting desperate.

>>48981437
Read it again, dipshit. I all but outright said that it was a beginners game meant for getting one's feet wet before moving on to a more complicated system.

Yes, there are skills involved in playing AoS. Not as much as other games, but if you honestly think you can't develop tactical and strategic skills in AoS then I guess you've never played the fucking game in the first place, or else just tried to play it exactly like it was still 8th edition and "pushed the dudes to the center of the table" like an abject failure.

>>48981450

hint: actually read the articles on DaVinci

>>48981434
>Undead shitter

I guess I can see why you're mad we no longer have 8th edition around.

>>48981427
That set was from 92.

>>48981454
>People compared the Mawkrusha to
A cabbage, mostly

>>48981468
Ironic, because before the General's Handbook came out the Undead factions were the most OP factions in AoS.

Flesh-eaters are still brutal as fuck if you're even half-way competent at army building.

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>>48981468
8th was shit, 6e a best.

>>48981502
>6e

lol, more like the start of the decline.

5e a best.

>>48981454
>The fact that Ironjaws are blatantly Black orcs is hilarious
Sorry, but I never see Black Orks with WoW-size weapon.
>because they have literally nothing in commo
Except same design.

>>48981432
It's not fucking medieval. Also there are only 8 stanks in the world and not all of them are running or not captured.

>>48981474
Goblins and High elves?

Nigga those gobbos ain't pointy.

>>48981452

Hey, remember that time that dwarves canonically discovered an abandoned NFL stadium and it launched a global religion where conflicts were solved through football?

Hey, remember that time that a goblin ate a piece of troll steak during an eating contest and as a consequence launched one of the most devastating wars the world had ever seen?

Hey, remember that time a race of space-frogs created a race of super-soldier lizards to battle demons from another dimension?

Hey, remember that time a giant mouth from space crashed into the planet and cursed a race of people with eternal hunger?

>>48981463
>Nah, its you.
Because you say it?

>>48981511

>GW ripped off their orc design from Blizzard who ripped off GW for their orc design in the first fucking place. Both of them ripped of Tolkien either way.

Christ, you guys are all idiots.

>>48981521
And again how it's related with high-low fantasy?
Witcher have a lot of multiverse shit, yet still it's dsrk low fantasy.

>>48981523
http://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/48373101/#48383463

Because it's you.

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>>48981432
Real life history bruh

If you like League of Legends design and userbase, it's a game to roll dice.

If you want anything deeper that that move along.

>>48981517

IT'S NOT MEDIEVAL GUYS! WARHAMMER FANTASY IS NOT MEDIEVAL!

How many steam powered tanks are required to make a setting high fantasy? I vote anything greater than 0.

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>>48981511
That's because you didn't play Warhammer Slavposter.

>>48981533
Well, there is the thing, Witcher isn't low Fantasy either you dumb fuck.

"Gritty and edgy" is not Low fantasy "Minimum amount of Fantasy" is Low Fantasy.

Witchers are Fantastical people AND KNOWN BY EVERYONE in the witcher.

>>48981535
Because it's not I.

>>48981533

I'm not sure you understand what low fantasy is.

>>48981550
Also the dragons, the armies of demons, the goatmen, the orcs, the legions of the undead, and you can't throw a stone into a crowd without hitting a wizard.

Warhammer has always been high fantasy. Anyone who says otherwise is fucking retarded.

>>48981403
>plastic

>>48981559
>That's because you didn't play Warhammer Slavposter
Yet still they don't look like Kor'kron guards.
>Well, there is the thing, Witcher isn't low Fantasy either you dumb fuck.
TOP FUCKING KEK

>>48981519
The gobos spear tips were fucking monofilament. It's the easiest piece of history to know if someone played back in 92-93

>>48981572
>the legions of the undead
One dead country and one Empire province.

>>48981592
The plastic was WGF-tier hard too.

>>48981599
And half a fucking continent.

>>48981521
>Hey, remember that time that dwarves canonically discovered an abandoned NFL stadium and it launched a global religion where conflicts were solved through football?

Pfft. Remember when a bunch of Orcs got drunk and had a barroom brawl?

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>>48981572
I think this Image sums up Warhammer fantasy perfectly.

It's a depressing High fantasy setting with skeletons with flaming hair.

I like how some peoples definition of low fantasy is so narrow that literally nothing fits in it. War of the Roses is mid fantasy yo.

>>48981611
What continent?

>>48981617
People think that Dark Fantasy can't also be High Fantasy. They're idiots.

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>>48981592
>>48981602

they were the repurposed WarhammerQuest Gobbos?

I only remember them being sharp if they had the molding seam on the tip.

>>48981629
But Dark fantasy cannot be noblebright.
Also, in terms Low-High more important how tonned all magic shit.

>>48981617
>Ronald McDonald Lichmiester
>Flaming Skeleton
>Disgruntled Orc pointing at Bird-tree

This image is perfect.

>>48981330
>300 bucks for so and so points in some system
Doesn't say shit, kiddo. How many models? How big models? And "cheapest they've ever been" is still a big fat lie, even if that would make a whole "army" in some system.

>>48981588

He's right though. Witcher is not low fantasy. It involves a race of chosen super-beings who develop super powers to fight monsters. The very fact that monsters exist and are common enough to be genuinely feared disqualifies the series from low fantasy.

>>48981572
Low fantasy is a subgenre of fantasy fiction involving "nonrational happenings that are without causality or rationality because they occur in the rational world where such things are not supposed to occur."[1] Low fantasy stories are set either in the real world or a fictional but rational world, and are contrasted with high fantasy stories which take place in a completely fictional fantasy world setting with its own set of rules and physical laws.

Low fantasy places relatively less emphasis on typical elements associated with fantasy, setting a narrative in real-world environments with elements of the fantastical. Sometimes there are just enough fantastical elements to make ambiguous the boundary between what is real and what is purely psychological or supernatural. The word "low" refers to the level of prominence of traditional fantasy elements within the work, and is not any sort of remark on the work's quality.

Role-playing games use a different definition of the genre, defining it as closer to realism than to mythic in scope. This can mean that some works, for example Robert E. Howard's Conan the Barbarian series, can be high fantasy in literary terms but low fantasy in gaming terms; while with other works, such as the TV series Supernatural, the opposite is true.

>>48981657
>Witcher is not low fantasy
Because some of Warhammer players say it?
>The very fact that monsters exist and are common enough to be genuinely feared disqualifies the series from low fantasy.
Source you ass?

>>48981657
I think the fact that alot of the quests are

>Hey witch come kill X supernatural cuntbeast annoying us normal folk

Makes the Witcher 100% not low Fantasy.

>>48981640
>But Dark fantasy cannot be noblebright.
Yes it can, Light Fantasy can be Grimdark, High Fantasy can be Dark, Low Fantasy can be light, High can be Noble, Light can be Grim, Low can be High, Noble can be Grim, Grim can be Grim, Fantasy can be Real Life...

>>48981637
Those are the ones. The tips in the 4th starter were sharper than other runs for some reason. Only about half of the gobbos were sharp, just to make it fun

>>48981666
>, Light Fantasy can be Grimdark
Nope.

It's hated because it's a pretty boring game. I'd not advise it for a beginner because I wouldn't want him to think all skirmish games are like that.

>>48981664
See

>>48981662

Neither Warhammer nor the Witcher fit into Low Fantasy in either the Literary or gaming terms.

>>48981652

Over 100 models. Biggest model are boar boys, black orcs. But I take your point, my evidence is purely anecdotal.

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>>48981673
I really fucking miss 4-5e Warhammer Aesthetic.

I think 6e was great mechanically, but it drained alot of the charm from the game and the images.

It's Ironic really because AoS brought me back with Silver Tower.

>>48981657
That narrow of a definition makes the term utterly useless in the gaming world. Hell it's even too narrow to be all that useful in a fantasy novel sense either.

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>>48981366
Can someone post the GW zombies ?

>>48981679
>Neither Warhammer nor the Witcher fit into Low Fantasy in either the Literary or gaming terms.

see >>48981367

The Warhammer setting has elements of Low and High Fantasy scattered through-out, which some find part of the appeal for the setting.

Overall, the best description for Warhammer would be Dark High Fantasy with gritty elements and Low Fantasy themes.

>>48981697

I'll tell you what - the recent Warhammer Quest vidya is a fucking abomination. It's only good for reminding you how amazing Quest was.

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>>48981705
Nah, fuck that shit.

The Warhammer I know and love is balls to the wall High Adventure as fuck.

>>48981366
Sweet. Do they have troll sized statues as well for ushabtis ?

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>>48981703
Can you post Kings of War Tomb Guard :^)

>>48981705
You are not wrong. It's a long lived setting so it's seen pieces of everything. I simply take issue with people who define low fantasy so strictly that it would account for less than 1% of any world settings.

>>48981725
Yeah, they look like they're molded from insulation foam like the rest of KoW models.

>>48981662
Thanks Wikipedia.

Basically, Low Fantasy would be the first few seasons of Game of Thrones (I'm a TV pleb) because it's literally just medieval europe in a different world, there are fantasy elements but they're mostly viewed as superstition or are straight up gone. (White Walkers and Dragons) But suddenly, Queen Based Dragontits IV hatches a trio of dragons, holy shit magic is a thing, zombie apocalypse, some guy can resurrect people and the twats finally start to get what's coming to them. By this point it's starting to become lower-mid fantasy.

Basically Low Fantasy means it's basically a normal world with so little weird shit happening as too it basically not existing. At least that's what I can garner of it.

>>48981728
>posting oop models
Not doing yourself any favor.

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>>48981366

I see absolutely no difference.

>>48981751
Should I compare Ogres then?

Or shall we compare Ghouls?

>>48981740
>like the rest of KoW models
Well the zombies and the hero posted here are really cool

>>48981764
Are you blind?

The Hero is fucking terrible. The only people who buy KoW models are people who don't actually hobby, they just play it as a game, and at that point, why even buy sub-par models and not use proxies like a sane person?

>>48981728
Anyone claiming that Mantic has better looking models than GW is an idiot. Mantic's models look good for their price. That's the only metric that really matters; how much are you willing to pay for quality?

Keeping in mind 50% of WHFB armies were never painted beyond being primed black (if even that much), and 99.9% of them didn't look anywhere near as good as the 'eavy Metal studio models.

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>>48981725
There is.

>>48981716

That was the great thing about Warhammer. There has always been room for both.

>>48981787
It varies greatly on the army.

Only people I know who buy Mantic minis are undead player.

>>48981764

The zombies look good, but in my opinion a zombie is about as simple a model as you can get.

Also that tomb king looks absolute fucking shit. If you like it more power to you- if you showed up at the table I would pick it up and say "cool! mini, man!" but in my heart I would know you are a pleb.

>>48981787
Quality doesn't really apply to GW tho. The Perry or Scibor are doing quality, GW not so much.

See mirrored duardins.

>>48981791
Clearly not with all the adamant shitposting in this thread and the hatred of AoS which is trying it's hardest to capture the same "High adventure in the Warhammer universe" feel.

>>48978531
I've never played LotR, so I'll have to take your word for it, but I will concede that they didn't need to kill the setting. I'm certain they did it specifically because it would be more likely to draw eyes since it was 100% new as opposed to rehashed fantasy, but I will give you that point.

>>48981744
>Basically Low Fantasy means it's basically a normal world with so little weird shit happening as too it basically not existing. At least that's what I can garner of it.

Essentially, yeah. Low Fantasy means that the focus isn't on the fantastical elements of it.

You could have a setting with dragons in it, and if those dragons were just treated like any other animal, it would still fall under the Low Fantasy category.

If those Dragons could cast spells and give quests and kidnap princesses, then you've got high fantasy.

Anyone who'd argue otherwise is literally saying that 'Reign of Fire' was High Fantasy.

>>48981807
You talking the Fyreslayers?

They're a Mixed bag because you have the basic dudes being a bit shit by things like the Grimwrath and the Hearthguard berserkers are alright.

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>>48981799
I was tempted to buy some of their High Elves before I saw their dragons and laughed so fucking hard I nearly pissed my pants.

>>48981825
>Not the Coffee table dwarves.

I feel a bit guilty there though, because the newer classic Dwarf kits were fucking amazing and Fyreslayers are about 50/50

>>48981679
>See
>>>48981662
So source is your ass?

>>48981808
People have their view of what Warhammer is and they hate being corrected, or shown otherwise. This goes back for a long while before AoS came into the scene.

>AoS which is trying it's hardest to capture the same "High adventure in the Warhammer universe" feel.

AoS has gone beyond even the highest of Warhammer's fantastical elements. It's more in the range of stuff like Hindu or Chinese mythology - just massive crazy politics and war.

>>48981812
I don't get the AoS rules are shit meme.

They play so similar to LotR anyway mechanically except instead of pushing people you pull them.

>>48981825
Russian alternative has the best high elf Spearman. Look that shit up.

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You're welcome

>>48981816
>Low Fantasy means that the focus isn't on the fantastical elements of it.
So there is no Low Fantasy except Guy Gavriel Kay? Because even GoT focused on undead and dragons.

>>48981849
>So source is your ass?

Uh, the wikipedia definitions for Low Fantasy and even a casual glimpse at the synopsis for both The Witcher and Warhammer?

>>48981862
Problem with Russian Alterative is you're basically paying for their weight in gold

>>48981867
I'm just waiting for a definition that doesn't excluded everything ever made

>>48981851
>They play so similar to LotR anyway mechanically except instead of pushing people you pull them.

I've played both AoS and LotR and I'm not quite sure I understand how you find them similar.

Why did Sigmar even happen? I know that sales were down but the way it was implemented seemed so rushed and the way everything was renamed makes it seem like they lost some of the rights.

>>48981894
Basic hit and wound mechanics.

Heroes being rather high in durability via wounds.

Combat depth is about model displacement and surface area in a bit more realistic terms than abstract from Warhammer fantasy.

>>48981866
>Because even GoT focused on undead and dragons.

Game of Thrones focussed on the politics and warfare and the gritty reality of existing in their world. The Undead and Dragons weren't focused on because of their magical elements, but because of the implications of their existence on how people cope.

That being said - there are certainly high fantasy elements in Game of Thrones, but having elements of high fantasy does not completely define it as high fantasy.

Again - think Reign of Fire.

>>48981916
>Combat depth
>nu-GW
>Combat depth

>>48981919
>Game of Thrones focussed on the politics and warfare and the gritty reality of existing in their world.
looks like someone never read the last books and season 6.
>does not completely define it as high fantasy.
So as Witcher.

>>48981908
Upper management doesn't do market research. They believe the vast majority of customers are just painters who don't play. They want more distinct ip with every model a centerpiece. I'm not bashing AoS this is simply the truth and should not affect whether you like it or not.

>>48981925
>Pile in placement is paramount on how to ensure you're effectiveness.
>Having to plan in case person gets two rounds in a row and abuse that fact
>Tons of Synergy between units and heroes.

AoS replaces alot of Strategic elements with tactical elements really.

>>48981931

The whole point of GoT is it was a world in which fantasy was nearly dead, then all the shit comes roaring back from out of legend into reality again.

>>48981941
To be honest, they were right.

People who bought and played WHFB as a wholesale hobby instead of focusing on the game aspect were the ones to buy GW products the most.

The rest just did like people in this thread and made due with koW products looking like they're sculpted from earwax.

>>48981891

Then read the wikipedia description, you jackass. If you don't understand what it means, then ask.

>>48981966
I'm saying the Wikipedia definition is so exclusive as to be non useful

>>48981931
>looks like someone never read the last books and season 6.

Looks like someone thinks that the minority defines the majority.

>>48981982

Except it's not.

Examples:

Literature
The Borrowers by Mary Norton
The Dark is Rising by Susan Cooper
The Doll's House by Rumer Godden
Five Children and It by E. Nesbit
The Green Mile by Stephen King
Good Omens by Neil Gaiman and Terry Pratchett
The Indian in the Cupboard by Lynne Reid Banks
Pippi Longstocking by Astrid Lindgren
The Snow Spider by Jenny Nimmo
That Hideous Strength by C. S. Lewis[
Tuck Everlasting by Natalie Babbit
The Owl Service by Alan Garner

Comics

Fables by Bill Willingham
Preacher by Garth Ennis, Glenn Fabry and Steve Dillon

Gaming

White Wolf Publishing's "World of Darkness" setting, including:
Vampire: The Masquerade
Werewolf: The Apocalypse
Mage: The Ascension
Skirmisher Publishing
Thief
Shin Megami Tensei: Persona 4 (In that the Television World acts as a supernatural phenomenon, which contradicts with the physical nature of the real world, which the main characters inhabit)
The Cat Lady
Mount and Blade

Television

I Dream of Jeannie
Forever Knight
Kindred: The Embraced
Buffy the Vampire Slayer
Charmed
Supernatural
True Blood
Evermoor
Man Seeking Woman

>>48981991
>minority defines the majority.
But dude Undead and Dragons arcs always were main arcs since the beggining.
>>48982025
>White Wolf Publishing's "World of Darkness" setting, including:
LOL WUT? How WW is Low Fantasy?

>>48982111
>How WW is Low Fantasy?

By being a realistic setting with some fantastical elements.

>But dude Undead and Dragons arcs always were main arcs since the beggining.

Their lack and return to the setting is the driving arc. And again - a realistic setting with some fantastical elements.

If you take out the dragons and undead (and later the magic shenanigans as it returns) Game of Thrones is just a medieval politic struggle.

Low Fantasy is something realistic with special shit sprinkled on top. Urban Fantasy tends to be a good example of a common Low Fantasy trope.

Curiously - Lord of the Rings is almost a perfect example of a Low Fantasy story in a High Fantasy setting.

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>>48976706
>Why is Age of Sigmar so hated

Because it has none of the elements I loved in Warhammer Fantasy Battle but all the elements I loathe in Warcraft.

>>48982179
>By being a realistic setting with some fantastical elements.
Actually fantastical elements are major part of the setting.
>And again - a realistic setting with some fantastical elements.
So as Witcher.
>Urban Fantasy tends to be a good example of a common Low Fantasy trope.
So Shadowrun is low fantasy too?

>>48981942
>>Pile in placement is paramount on how to ensure you're effectiveness.
>>Having to plan in case person gets two rounds in a row and abuse that fact
>>Tons of Synergy between units and heroes.
Nice names for "throw 3+ for everything".

>>48982287
>So Shadowrun is low fantasy too?

I'm not up to date with the new edition, but yeah - Shadowrun would be low fantasy with high fantasy elements.

>>48982287
>Actually fantastical elements are major part of the setting.

Is a main character a spell-slinging wizard who drinks the blood of dragons and flies across the skies?

Because that would be high fantasy.

Or are the main characters average people who have to, sporadically, deal with weird shit?

>>48982681
>Because that would be high fantasy.
Because you say it?
>average people who have to, sporadically, deal with weird shit?
.Danny and Jon
>average

>>48982287
>Actually fantastical elements are major part of the setting.
The point of low fantasy it that they're there but are NOT the main part of the setting, Game of Thrones has dragons, magic and zombies but the focus of the setting is political survival in the cutthroat world of not!medieval politics. Early Game of Thrones is low fantasy, it is now just very gritty mid fantasy.

White Wolf is all about the Fantasy elements and as such is not low fantasy. A game about the machinations of vampires isn't low fantasy, a game about the machinations of merchants in a city state than has vampires in it is. The Witcher is about a magic superwarrior fighting monsters and as such is not low fantasy, as the fantastical elements of the setting take center stage.
I actually support Cersei

>>48982826
>are NOT the main part of the setting,
Please tell my, how the fuck undead isn't main part of the setting?
>it is now just very gritty mid fantasy.
So,e on really need ockham's razor here.
>The Witcher is about a magic superwarrior fighting monsters and as such is not low fantasy
Because mutation doesn't exist in low fantasy and IRl?

>>48976706
>-Is Age of Sigmar fluff as good as Warhammer fantasy?
No, the setting is nebolous and devoid of limits, confines and details.
>-are the rules different or better?
Different: favour smaller matches of great and elite pieces and micromanagement, while fantasy was more about the mass scale of battles with emphasis on preparative moves.
>-would you recommend it to new players?
Why not? it's mostly free, more simplified and works at a small model count.


The hate comes from having killed the setting with the emd times and having replaced it with something having a different tone (on top of quite a bit of questionable design and artwork choices).

>>48976706
>-Is Age of Sigmar fluff as good as Warhammer fantasy?

No. It's total shit. I say this as someone who barely knows anything about the old lore, by the way. The world is barely defined and so far the 'setting' just seems to be a bunch of infinite worlds where gods occasionally hit each other.

>-are the rules different or better?

No idea, but the rules are pretty awful.

>-would you recommend it to new players?

Nope. There are much better games to start with, and AoS is monstrously overpriced.

Just play Warmahordes or Infinity or something.

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>people arguing about low and high fantasy without even knowing the definition of those terms

For real though, if you think WHFB is low fantasy you're fucking retarded.

>>48982794
Says wikipedia and the definition of low and high fantasy.

>>48982845
>Because mutation doesn't exist in low fantasy and IRl?

Mutation IRL is usual shit that will significantly lower your life expectancy and make what life you do lead painful and troubling. Unless you luck out and get silly cosmetic shit like an extra toe or nipple.

>>48982951
read
>>48981367
>Warhammer swings from Low to High Fantasy, and everything in between.

>>48977345
Chukran for your promotion of Games Workshop, the defender of the faith. A sum of £5.100 (approximately $0.02) has been deposited into your local mosque's funds

>>48983060
Warhammer is at no point low fantasy.

There's basically no hint of magic in Bree or most of the Shire, but we don't consider LotR low fantasy. We consider it the archetypal high fantasy.

The fact that there are mud-eating peasants in WHFB does not make it low fantasy. Remember, spotting flights of harpies or having to chuck out that one kid that keeps making flowers wilt is a relatively regular occurrence for these people. They don't live secluded lives where the high fantasy stuff just doesn't happen.

They're still in danger of being raided by dark elves or having their wives ravaged by beastmen or getting trampled under a Waaagh! This is dark fantasy, but it's still high fantasy. It's extremely high fantasy, actually.

>>48983060
>Mutation IRL is usual shit that will significantly lower your life expectancy and make what life you do lead painful and troubling.
Yeah, Witcher mutation more close to extra version of dopping.
>>48983179
>They're still in danger of being raided by dark elves or having their wives ravaged by beastmen or getting trampled under a Waaagh! T
So what? Actually even such magical race as elves using the fucking concripts as core of their army already make setting a bit more lower, than usual elves.

>>48980260
It doesn't fucking MATTER if it's free as well you nigger, because your whole point was that there DOESN'T EXIST ANYTHING ELSE
kill yourself you dumbass

>>48980426
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
If you want to play with shitty WoW orcs, just go play fucking WoW orc

>>48983179
>There's basically no hint of magic in Bree or most of the Shire, but we don't consider LotR low fantasy. We consider it the archetypal high fantasy.

Gimme a sec...
>A few high fantasy series do not easily fit into Gamble's categories. For example, J. R. R. Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings is set in primary world of Earth in the ancient past, and he adamantly disagreed with anyone who thought otherwise, see The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien. According to Tolkien, he had set it in the inhabited lands of geographically north-west Europe. The Professor himself disagreed with the notion that his stories diverged from reality, but rather defended his position that the "essentials of that abiding place are all there (at any rate for inhabitants of N.W. Europe), so naturally it feels familiar, even if a little glorified by enchantment of distance in time.". Nevertheless, Middle-earth, is sufficiently divergent from reality to be classed as a secondary world and hence high fantasy.

The story of LotR is a low-fantasy one, but because the setting is sufficiently divergent to reality, it's considered a High Fantasy setting.

>Warhammer is at no point low fantasy.
>Warhammer swings from Low to High Fantasy, and everything in between.

Warhammer has been around for 30 years with a lot of fluff to fill it out. Plenty of that fluff has been low fantasy. Beasts In Velvet, Rattenkrieg.

Oh

>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warhammer_Fantasy_(setting)

Literally the first line.

>>48976978
t. Redshirt

>>48983208
>So what? Actually even such magical race as elves using the fucking concripts as core of their army already make setting a bit more lower, than usual elves.

That has nothing to do with whether a setting is low or high fantasy.

The mere fact that there are entire armies of unnaturally beautiful, unnaturally graceful fey beings that live on the same material realm as humans and interact with the rest of the world semi-regularly makes it high fantasy.

40K has its elves use conscripts. Warmahordes has its elves use conscripts. Does that make them low fantasy?

>>48983179
>The fact that there are mud-eating peasants in WHFB does not make it low fantasy. Remember, spotting flights of harpies or having to chuck out that one kid that keeps making flowers wilt is a relatively regular occurrence for these people.

Reign of Fire.

People spot dragons all the time, doesn't make it a High Fantasy movie.

Warhammer is way on the low side of the fantasy spectrum. High/Low Fantasy has nothing to do with the mythical beasts in the setting - it's about the approach and importance of those creatures in the setting, and their relation to the setting as a whole.

Look at real life - we have stories of people turning water into wine, of dragons and demons, of the world being created in seven days, of gods marching the heavens and waging war with world snakes.

Doesn't make real life High Fantasy.

>>48983242
>wikipedia

Nice.

Let me get another wikipedia article.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_fantasy

>Low fantasy is a subgenre of fantasy fiction involving "nonrational happenings that are without causality or rationality because they occur in the rational world where such things are not supposed to occur."

What some grognard has edited into the WHFB on wikipedia means literally nothing.

>>48983258
>The mere fact that there are entire armies of unnaturally beautiful, unnaturally graceful fey beings that live on the same material realm as humans and interact with the rest of the world semi-regularly makes it high fantasy.
Lolwut? The fact of fantasy races existence doesn't make setting high fantasy. Following by your logic IRL is High Fantasy too.There could be fanatsy races, but if they fit only magical niche without anything else the setting will be more high fantasy, while in WHFB elves are literally post-WW2 England.

>>48983262
>it's about the approach and importance of those creatures in the setting, and their relation to the setting as a whole.

You mean like how the setting is all about a cosmic battle between the forces of four eldritch gods and everyone else? Or how wizards are just something that happen? How does the approach to elves or demons in WHFB make it any different from a high fantasy setting?

If WHFB isn't high fantasy, nothing is.

>Look at real life - we have stories of people turning water into wine, of dragons and demons, of the world being created in seven days, of gods marching the heavens and waging war with world snakes.
>Doesn't make real life High Fantasy.

Because these are stories. And if they were real... they'd be real. And not fantasy at all.

>>48983277
>The Warhammer World borrows considerably from historical events and other fantasy fiction settings. The Old World is recognisably Europe approximating to the Renaissance period - the Empire being set over what is modern Germany. Many events are lifted and modified directly from real-world history, including the Black Plague and the Moorish invasion of Spain, and others from original fantasy sources. Like Middle-earth, Warhammer's Elves are declining in population, and a Great Necromancer is reborn after the defeats in his Southern stronghold.

I'm afraid you're outnumbered and just plain wrong on this one, chum.

>>48983305
>Because these are stories. And if they were real... they'd be real. And not fantasy at all.

David vs. Goliath. Is that a high fantasy or a low fantasy story in your estimation?

>If WHFB isn't high fantasy, nothing is.

See

>Warhammer swings from Low to High Fantasy, and everything in between.

>>48983305
>setting is all about a cosmic battle between the forces of four eldritch gods
Nope, it's AoS.

>>48983283
>The fact of fantasy races existence doesn't make setting high fantasy.

The fact that they are a natural, mundane part of the world makes it high fantasy.

Elves riding giant fiery birds is a normal thing in this setting. Flying fortresses levitated by elf magic are normal things.

>Following by your logic IRL is High Fantasy too.

No, because the things in RL are real. We call elves a fantasy race because they do not exist in real life.

>>48983309
Absolutely has nothing to do with whether something is high fantasy or low fantasy. Khador in Warmahordes is very obviously a mashup of Russia's two most well known historical periods, but that doesn't make the setting low fantasy.

>David vs. Goliath. Is that a high fantasy or a low fantasy story in your estimation?

High fantasy. In the fictional world of the Bible there is supernatural stuff literally everywhere. If things like Goliath were relatively isolated incidents it'd be low fantasy. But for people that believe in this stuff it's obviously not fantasy at all.

>>48983305
>If WHFB isn't high fantasy, nothing is.

Warhammer can swing between high and low fantasy pretty easily. If you were to read a story about the machinations of the Chaos Gods, that would be fairly high fantasy. But it wouldn't be particularly in keeping with the feel of Warhammer.

If you were to read a story about a shitty peasant who got caught in the middle of a conspiracy of corruption with his local lord who turns out to be a cultist of a ruinous god, that would be a fairly low fantasy story and a bit more in keeping with the classic Warhammer feel.

Both are Warhammer in their core, and both take place in the same setting and world - but both cover vastly different subjects and approach them in vastly different ways - even though both stories are perfectly at home with the Warhammer setting.

High and Low fantasy, swinging between the two easily.

>>48983326
>The fact that they are a natural, mundane part of the world makes it high fantasy.
Source, your ass?
>Flying fortresses levitated by elf magic
Only Black arcs.
>We call elves a fantasy race because they do not exist in real life.
And what about daemons? Chinks still calling a lot of peple "white deamons".

>>48983326
>The fact that they are a natural, mundane part of the world makes it high fantasy.

That sounds like Mundane Fantasy.

High fantasy is defined as fantasy set in an alternative, fictional world, rather than "the real" world. The fictional world is usually internally consistent, but its rules differ from those of the real world. By contrast, low fantasy is characterized by being set in the "real" world, or a rational and familiar fictional world, with the inclusion of magical elements.

Warhammer swings between high and low fantasy because of how many elements of it are just the real world with the names filed off. The Empire is the best example of this, because it's just renaissance Germany surrounded by magical shit.

Having elves in it doesn't impact whether it's high or low fantasy at all.

If the story was just the history of our world if Elves were in it, it would still be a low fantasy setting based on everything just described.

>>48983409

Additionally, >>48983353 - David V. Goliath is a low-fantasy story for the same reason. Real World (or obviously based on real world) with magical elements = low fantasy.

The scope of a story also plays an element as well.

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>>48983367
>that would be a fairly low fantasy story and a bit more in keeping with the classic Warhammer feel.

The classic Warhammer feel is giant armies full of griffons and wizards shitting lightning and giants and huge cannons that shoot magical green fire.

Pic related is just as much classic Warhammer as a story about a random peasant.

>>48976706
>-Is Age of Sigmar fluff as good as Warhammer fantasy?
no. fighting over some abstract metaplanes is not motivating.
>-are the rules different or better?
different and no better. they lend themselves to micromanaging poisitioning of models in fights.

>-would you recommend it to new players?
it's the only thing AoS has going for itself: it's beginner-friendly.

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>>48983372
>Only Black arcs.
So that thing that Empire use is build by their Dark Elf waifus?

>>48983409
>That sounds like Mundane Fantasy.

Not really. Fantastical things being normal parts of a fantastical setting are what makes a setting high fantasy.

>The Empire is the best example of this, because it's just renaissance Germany surrounded by magical shit.

Again, Khador is just Russia with wizards and robutts. Still not low fantasy.

WHFB takes heavy inspiration from the real world, like a lot of fantasy does. It does not present a world where the norms and rules are the same as ours. It has consistent rules, and at its base level many things are the same (up is up, down is down, humans have four limbs, etc), but that's the case with virtually every D&D setting, too.

There is nothing that makes Faerun any more high fantasy than the Old World. Both can have gritty stories with ugly people in them if you write those stories. But both are full to the brim with the things that define high fantasy.

>>48983426
>The classic Warhammer feel is giant armies full of griffons and wizards shitting lightning and giants and huge cannons that shoot magical green fire.


Which is funny, because that would mean >Warhammer swings from Low to High Fantasy, and everything in between.

>>48983469
>Not really. Fantastical things being normal parts of a fantastical setting are what makes a setting high fantasy.

No, high fantasy is just being an alternative setting with an epic scope.

>Again, Khador is just Russia with wizards and robutts. Still not low fantasy.

I don't know Khador, but if you just took Russia and added wizards and Robots - then it's low fantasy. It's literally the definition of low fantasy.

Wait, let me check.

>Low fantasy is a subgenre of fantasy fiction involving "nonrational happenings that are without causality or rationality because they occur in the rational world where such things are not supposed to occur."

YEP. THERE WE GO. RUSSIA WITH WIZARDS AND ROBOTS IS LOW FANTASY.

>>48983469
>
There is nothing that makes Faerun any more high fantasy than the Old World. Both can have gritty stories with ugly people in them if you write those stories. But both are full to the brim with the things that define high fantasy.

Is Faerun just Renaissance German with magical shit thrown in?

Because if it was, then it would be Low Fantasy. Or at least have low fantasy elements.

>>48983511
By that logic, nearly every setting can swing from low to high fantasy and everything in between.

I could write a story about a peasant in Eberron maybe thinking he might have seen a spite but eh maybe it was a trick of the light. Eberron is still a high fantasy setting.

The same is true of WHFB. You can fit a ton of different stories in there because it is a vast setting. But it is a vast high fantasy setting.

>>48983538
>Is Faerun just Renaissance German with magical shit thrown in?

No. But neither is anything in the Old World.

The Empire TAKES INSPIRATION from Renaissance Germany and the Holy Roman Empire. It is not, however, Renaissance Germany. It exists in a world with totally different norms and rules to ours. Magic in this world is not an interruption of the standard realistic world, it is part of a fully separate, fantastical world.

Rokugan is based on Shogunate Japan, but it is not Shogunate Japan. Khador is based on two eras of Russian history, but it is not Russia.

>>48983531
>No, high fantasy is just being an alternative setting with an epic scope.

So WHFB, then.

>>48983542
>By that logic, nearly every setting can swing from low to high fantasy and everything in between.

YEAH. PRETTY FUCKING AMAZING THAT, INNIT?

>But it is a vast high fantasy setting.

A PURE HIGH FANTASY SETTING WOULDN'T HAVE ANY ELEMENTS OF LOW FANTASY.

FOR EXAMPLE, LORD OF THE RINGS.

A PURE LOW FANTASY SETTING WOULD HAVE NO ELEMENTS OF HIGH FANTASY.

FOR EXAMPLE, THE BORROWERS.

IF THERE'S A MIX, THEN IT HAS THE CAPACITY TO SWING BETWEEN THE TWO. HOW BIG THAT CAPACITY IS DEPENDS ON THE SETTINGS THEMSELVES, BUT SOMETHING LIKE WARHAMMER WITH IT'S NOT-GERMANY, NOT-FRANCE, NOT-ENGLAND, NOT-INDIA, NOT-CHINA, NOT-JAPAN AND NOT-TSARIST RUSSIA HAS A FAIR BIT OF LOW FANTASY THAT IT CAN SWING TOWARDS WHEN IT'S DOWN WITH IT'S HIGH FANTASY STUFF LIKE LUSTRIA, THE CHAOS WASTES, ULTHUAN, THE REALM OF CHAOS AND THE DARK BENEATH THE WORLD.

>>48983571
>Rokugan is based on Shogunate Japan, but it is not Shogunate Japan. Khador is based on two eras of Russian history, but it is not Russia.

THEN THEY'D BOTH BE PRETTY SOLID EXAMPLES OF LOW-FANTASY, IF THEY TOOK INFLUENCE TO THE SAME DEGREE THAT WFB DID.

>>48983592
>A PURE HIGH FANTASY SETTING WOULDN'T HAVE ANY ELEMENTS OF LOW FANTASY.

No, that's not how it works. There are no levels of purity.

The possibility of realistic characters and stories to existing in a high fantasy setting makes it no less of a high fantasy setting.

No matter what kind of stories you tell in the Old World, its scope, its nature as an alternate world, and its contents make it high fantasy.

>>48983571

LORD OF THE RINGS SERVES A GOOD EXAMPLE OF THE SORT OF ARGUMENT YOU'RE POSING HERE. THE SOCIETIES OF ROHAN AND GONDOR CERTAINLY CAN SHARE SOME ELEMENTS OF HISTORICAL CULTURES, BUT THEY ARE UNIQUE AND DISTINCT IN THEIR DEPICTION AND CHARACTERISATION AND SHARE VERY LITTLE IN COMMON BEYOND AESTHETIC OR CASUAL PERCEPTIONS.

CONVERSELY, THE EMPIRE HAS TAKEN SO MUCH FROM ACTUAL HISTORY THAT THE DATES OF SOME OF THEIR PLAGUES AND CATASTROPHES ARE ABOUT THE SAME AS REAL WORLD DATES. YOU'VE GONE BEYOND INSPIRATION AT THIS STAGE AND ARE CLEARLY AT A MIX AND MATCH STAGE.

>>48981135
>MFW I played Bretonnia and now it is gone.
>MFW I see this pic and see my knights will never see action again.
>Why, AoS, why?

>>48983612
They really wouldn't.

WHFB is not the real world. It takes inspiration from the real world, but it functions in a way that is entirely departed from it. The Empire isn't literally Renaissance Germany except when you walk into the woods you might cross over into fairyland.

It's The Empire. It has wizard colleges and its fantastical/realistic elements function in the same base reality. This is not some Narnia shit we're talking here. This isn't even the grey area of Middle Earth, where Tolkien insists that it's Earth's super ancient history. The Old World is an entirely separate world. Most of its similarities to our world, where they exist, are purely geographical.

Naggaroth is kinda sorta the shape of North America is you decide that Lustria is like South America. But fuck me if it is actually anything like North America.

>>48983646
>CONVERSELY, THE EMPIRE HAS TAKEN SO MUCH FROM ACTUAL HISTORY THAT THE DATES OF SOME OF THEIR PLAGUES AND CATASTROPHES ARE ABOUT THE SAME AS REAL WORLD DATES

Parallels and allegory do not determine whether something is high or low fantasy.

Discworld is full of parallels and references to real-world things. I have never heard anyone, ever, describe Discworld as low fantasy.

I honestly believe the insistence that WHFB is low fantasy is just out of a slightly pretentious belief that low fantasy is more legit and can be taken more seriously. But this is not the case. WHFB is an extremely varied, well-crafted, nuanced high fantasy world. It's fantastic, in every sense of the word.

>>48983627
>There are no levels of purity.

AFRAID I'M GOING TO HAVE TO DISAGREE WITH YOU THERE, CHUMMER. FOR EXAMPLE, 'THE INDIAN IN THE CUPBOARD' IS A PURELY LOW FANTASY STORY. REAL LIFE WITH AN ELEMENT OF THE FANTASTIC.

CONVERSELY, OZ AND NARNIA HAVE NO REAL-WORLD ANALOGUES. THEY ALSO SERVE AS A GOOD EXAMPLES AS, ALTHOUGH ELEMENTS OF THE STORY TAKE PLACE IN THE REAL WORLD, THE SETTINGS THEMSELVES ARE PURELY HIGH FANTASY.

WARHAMMER FANTASY, FALLEN LONDON, A SONG OF ICE AND FIRE - EACH OF THESE SETTINGS CONTAIN NUMEROUS ELEMENTS THAT ARE CLEARLY DERIVATIVE OF HUMAN HISTORY MIXED WITH FANTASTICAL ELEMENTS. THE SETTINGS THEMSELVES ARE NOT CONSIDERED GENERICALLY HIGH FANTASY BECAUSE SOME OF THE MOST DEFINING ELEMENTS OF THE STORIES OF THE SETTING ARE FIRMLY ROOTED IN THE HUMAN ELEMENTS.

--

But this has been your English Literature lesson for the day, I have papers to grade.

>>48983703
>I honestly believe the insistence that WHFB is low fantasy is just out of a slightly pretentious belief that low fantasy is more legit and can be taken more seriously. But this is not the case. WHFB is an extremely varied, well-crafted, nuanced high fantasy world. It's fantastic, in every sense of the word.

No-one is insisting it's low fantasy though. The guy is just saying that it swings between low and high, which is especially evident in the novels.

>>48983713
Especially wfrp. So much of which is set in low fantasy. It's set in a world shaped just like Europe, with realistic nations based on real world nations. Yes fantastic elements exist, that's why it's fantasy. But depending on which aspect of which game or piece of fiction you are talking about from its 30 year history it can definitely be low fantasy at times.

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>>48983649
>Bretonnia no longer exists
>not even playable in warhammer total war

I heard a few old fantasy fags now play kings of war and say it's good and very tactical.
Any one know more?

>>48981209
Just becuase its lower than other games doesn't make it low fantasy. There's more to fantasy than table top games. Warhammer has mountains that look like skulls... by my book that's pretty fucking high.

>>48981521
The Slann did not create the lizardmen, the old ones did. Slann are sort of delegates for orders of the old ones.

>>48977107
I feel it's an insult to compare AoS to Hindu mythology, especially when it's so obviously going for a Ragnarok theme - eight realms, Sigmar being a fairly obvious Odin, Ur-Gold being fairly similar to the Rhine gold.

Honestly, I don't know why anyone would play it. It barely has any Warhammer in it and there are cheaper wargames with better rules out there.

>>48978051
It's main sin is that it's not pleasing the old WFB fans with its new lore and rules, and it's of no interest to 40k fans because it's different from 40k.

>>48985285
It's very different, but fun. Very lean and fast, you don't have all the customization option of wh but at least you can play a couple of good sized games in an afternoon.

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>>48981673

Yeah man those 4th ed box goblins are brutally sharp. And to top it off being on a thin plastic spear I'm sure if you stepped on one it would break off in your foot.

Luckily I've never stepped on one, only been stabbed in the fingers while searching through my big box of old greenskins.

>>48985285
>not even playable in warhammer total war

You can play them in single battle right now and I'm certain there's a mod out that lets you play a campaign with their current roster.

The full release is gonna be free, if you didn't know that.

>>48986151
Name three.

>>48976727
>if you're a monteally handicapped person
>answeing
Fathammer players so mad that they can't even type right
Go back to your nobody FLGS and be fat with other nu males like you

>>48985400
I don;t think those are actually canon, the TWWH people were just flexing their new "We can go crazy with art now that we're not d oing historicals" freedom

>>48976763
skub?
Don't you even go there nigga. I'll fite ya irl on me mam ill kick yer teef in

>>48976978
i had a look at 9th age out of curiosity and it isn't all bad, but there are still some shitty bits that do rrek of fanfiction (if you want to call it that)

In other words it's a small group's vision of how WHFB should have been.
But it isn't everyone's vision of how WHFB should have been.

I hear the oldhammer guys are still going strong btw, they stuck to 3rd edition.

>>48977042
>>48977020
double posting !
>stay classy /teeg/

>>48985285
>kings of war
No. Not even on meth. The rules are as shite as AoS, maybe even worse.
Damn KoW is worse than 9th age and that's a fanfic.

>>48983649
Brets still have rules in AoS and they're one of the strongest armies in the game
Leouncur flat out makes your entire army (plus any empire dudes you might have) fearless for as long as he's alive

>>48976706
>I want to give money to GW
Don't. Disappointment and rage are the only destinations of that path.

Especially if it's for AoS. Unless you specifically want gigantic and overdesigned models, there's nothing AoS does that isn't done better by another game or company.

>>48986553

Ahh it was amusing when the boxed game used to come with pieces of card with pictures on them to represent models.

>>48981366
The hands and sword are a bit mucked uo and the bandaged face seems like a bit of a lazy shortcut even though I like wrapped faces, but it's still a pretty solid model.

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>>48981135
Fwuffy wub fwuff!

>>48981454
>People compared the Mawkrusha to Tigrex more than a Protodrake because they have literally nothing in common besides being a dragon-like creature.
While it's true that it doesn't have the Protodrake's "Plated Gator Head" the stance is fairly similar.

>>48988937
Did you get lost on your way to /mlp/?

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>>48988998
Nuuu! Fwuffy nu wan losties!

>>48986559
There are mods, although some of them are out of date. There are also mods to play as the Southern Realms.

>>48976706

Age of Sigmar is a shittier version of WHFB, but apparently have very good deals on old miniatures (the new ones are mostly shite unfortunately).

Buy AoS models, play WHFB, problem solved.

>>48980579
>>AoS is free as well you dolt;
>Only 4 pages.

AoS is simply unplayable without the general's handbook, which isn't free at all.

>>48989630

About to do that, the issue is round bases.

How much cost does buying all the appropriate bases add to the Start Collecting boxes for instance?