DM Frustrations

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>>48922194

>Player: Hey anon I want to make aesthetic changes to my character
>Ok but those aesthetic changes will incur huge penalties during play, with no gameplay or narrative benefits.
>Player: I'm upset about this seemingly arbitrary decision.
>Why are people so irrational, /tg/?

Like don't get me wrong I think fantastic racism is completely chill to have in your game and I'd have no problem with a game world giving me shit for being an orc, but if you don't want your players to think that's dumb you need to balance it out in some way. It can be as simple as having some side plot relating to their half orc-ishness. Everyone likes to be the underdog, right? But it's really dumb to just go "hey I know you like thing but thing is actually forbidden in my setting" and expect players to go "wow ur right i shouldn't want thing"

also orcs are the shit fuck off with this orc hate

He's wrong. It's not stupid, the problem is even simpler than that. You're stupid. Why would you build a setting that's inherently working against a core race? By the same logic, everyone's lost someone to everyone at some point or another and everyone should be outcast *somewhere*. Did you build some 'grand masterful storyline' (by which I mean Final Fantasy ripoff-wannabe) without bothering to ask what your players wanted to play too? Maybe a great overarching map of the continent and a special, carefully-crafted language for your new special snowflake race too?

All that aside, objections to a halfsie should last all of three levels; by level four, a PC should pretty much be able to wipe out a town singlehandedly anyway, and the town guard will get the fuck out of the way in fear of rep alone. Likewise, merchants are going to understand money and power, and unless they have a stronger backer, they'll deal with him because there's not much of a choice. A little past that, you start getting to the point where you need things that merchants can't generally provide. (And if you're working things such that there are still problems, then you really are a double-shitter, stupid, and the problem here.)

>>48922194
What a silly person.

But couldn't he just work with criminals who don't give a shit and do villanous shit?

If you knew they were going to through a hissy fit, there were two easy ways to avoid this.
>don't ostracize half-orcs in your settings (or downplay it)
>don't let them play half-orcs

This wasn't your fault, but you could have and chose not to prevent it. Your job as the referee is to make the players have fun.
You don't need to let them bend you over their knee, but you can and should accommodate them.

>>48922194
Sounds like good excuses to get some roleplaying on.

>>48922320
>implying people pick half-orcs for their tasteful tusks and powerful smell and not for the ridiculously useful racial stats and abilities

>>48922194
Well, if you regularly play with new players, you'll have this kind of thing regularly
Just stop thinking about it

>>48922320
Some people want to play on hardcore mode, anon. Amd it's so much easier to be the centre of attention. The DM even makes it about you! Instant win!

"Man, screw this wizard! We attack!"

>3 rounds later all the party lies dead at the feet of Lordmage Anterach, Flayer of Souls and his assorted summoned elementals

"What the fuck?! Why give us a fight we can't win, GM?"

The dude fucking floated 24/7 and casually commanded minor demons to do chores. You're the idiots that swung at him, I didn't plan for you to fight him.

>>48922194
why are they inherently evil?
how can a race be inherently evil as a whole?
nazis thought they were the good guys, so to them, the jews were evil.
what kind of a manchild are you to misunderstand reality as something black and white?

>>48922336
First, just the fact that you assume that there's such a thing as a core race for any given setting is stupid
And as far as I'm concerned, adding depth to your world is actually something called "worldbuilding", maybe you haven't heard about it though

>by level four, a PC should pretty much be able to wipe out a town singlehandedly anyway
Oh, you're playing Dnd. I'll assume that you're just a player talking out of your ass then

>>48922336
>by level four, a PC should pretty much be able to wipe out a town singlehandedly
>he plays worstedition

>>48922194
>"Hey DM, I want to play as a tiefling!"
>"sure, but you might face some prejudice"
>"K, that's cool, the character is neutral evil."

DM is still legitimately confused as to why my character is helping the big bad person blow up the world.

>>48922194
You should make a campaign brief that tells them this stuff before they start making character concepts. If they just ignore your shit, then yeah, they're just being dumb. If you say "hey let's play a regular game of D&D" and then they say "OK I Wanna X" and then you give it baggage, then I think it's normal for them to get peeved.

>>48922536
Did I just read "how can orcs be evil ?" ?
Because aside from "how do I roll dice ?", this has to be the dumbest thing a player is able to say to his DM

Also, if you still want an answer, remember that grey mentality is not always the standard and that in a given setting, a given race could literally be entirely evil.

>>48922536
>Durr durr, how can something non-existant be different from my morality standards ?

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>>48922406
>mfw I just pick half-orcs because I'm a barafag

>>48922194

>Hey GM, what's likely to happen if we did X?
>It's insanely dangerous. You'll probably all die
>LETS DO IT ANYWAY!
>HOLY SHIT? Why did you kill us all? No fun allowed, huh?


Then there's

>We want to play a political intrigue game!
>What do you mean, the NPC lied to us?
>How is he allowed to do that? You're fucking railroading us dude.
>No, we didn't' think we should put any sorts of points into social skills or anything that would help us figure out if someone is playing us for fools
>Don't you know that "intrigue game" means that we run around backstabbing everyone and get away with it because the entire planet besides us are retarded?

>>48922641

>D&D
>implying half-orcs don't come standard with baggage

I'm not sure how to tell you this, but in D&D, half-orc generally means "your father was a monster who raped your mother". Not saying every half-orc is going to be the product of this, but most of the dirt farming yokels you run into are going to be thinking it.

And that's going off of either the implied setting, published settings, or just straight up what it says in the rule books.

>>48922645
but WHY are they evil?
because you said so?
are they just that psychopatic, and if they are, how can they even exist as a society?

>>48922538
Whatever indiefag, when's the last time you actually played at the table instead of online?

>>48922584
While that was a D&D reference (which is what OP's post seems to be about, given the half-orc comment), and yes, in some ways I do actually agree with you that 3.5 and its descendant PF are the worst, a random town should not reasonably have the power to stop a somewhat-advanced adventurer in a setting with advancement by level. That would actually be somewhat immersion-breaking because level, by the way it functions, is inherently supposed to create large gaps in power. If you wanted slower advancement you'd use an xp system that's more like Shadowrun's or WoD's.

>>48922641
This guy, I can agree with.

>>48922761
I bet you're one of those people who has to point out how centaurs would break their spines, and has to argue about how dragons must have wingspans miles wide to stay aloft.

>>48922691
im just saying that having a race be entirely evil, makes them hard to form a society, and if they arent evil to each other, then they arent really objectively evil. Evil is just a subjective measure.

>>48922761

Assuming we're talking D&D and not say, Lord of the Rings, then:

They're evil because they're the creations of an objectively evil god, and while they might have the tiniest spark of free will that would let them abandon that path, they're still forever tainted by that divine creation.

As for how they have a society? Might makes right, everyone hates them, so they only have each other, and their evil god who made them.

And all of this is from the existing material for D&D's published/implied settings.

If you change it, you're playing a homebrew game, or one with house rules.

Not that that's bad/

>>48922832
yes

>>48922194
Nothing wrong with what you did, half-orcs should always be hated everywhere.

Ah, DnD.
Now black and white makes sense.

>>48922880
You should go create a forum for people like you, and take all the HEMA-fags with you.

>>48922957
How did you know I practice HEMA?
Are we really all that alike?

>>48922732

Yeah, I think you're right about that, but I just meant I generally find it good practice to let potential players know what they're getting themselves into before they start dreaming up shit that could deviate from the norm of the setting and style of the game.

Like, a 1 page handout that includes races and has a line of "Half-Orcs are universally treated like shit" etc. Even if it's typical, good reminder IMO. Otherwise the player might just figure it never comes up because it's not really what the DM wants to focus on.

But I dunno, that's just what I've seen to work best.

>>48922855
You missed the point. He was probably trying to tell you that evil is not always subjective and that not everyone goes for the grey mentality

>>48922538
>Oh, you're playing Dnd. I'll assume that you're just a player talking out of your ass then
Not that anon, but what the fuck, man? Over half the D&D editions are solid-ass games!

OD&D, B/X, BECMI, AD&D, AD&D 2e...

>>48922598

Players whose actions are entirely anti-party in their goals are the worst

>>48922194
Did you bother talking to your players beforehand, explaining what kind of game you wanted to run, listening to what kind of game they wanted to play in, and working out a happy compromise?

By the sounds of things, no, you didn't. So you ended up arguing with your players about what they can and can't do, and what kind of tone the game should and shouldn't have; an argument which will never get anywhere, because you're all arguing the objective merits of of your personal, subjective taste.

Good job.

>>48922997
Of course you are. Most people join roleplaying games to have awesome adventures doing fantastical things, and there's that one faggot in the corner going "ACHTUALLY" and pushing his glasses who just *incapable* of not correcting every single thing everyone else does, because it's anachronistic, or they're hitting people in platemail with their greatsword without using the mordheim grip and studded leather armor isn't actually something that exists and you need tremendous strength to operate a bow etc etc etc basically just shitting all over the place while other people try to have fun.

>>48923084
it is always subjective
like i said, nazis thought they were the good guys
the orcs prolly think they are the shit as well

>>48922336
Oh, fuck you, Orcaboo...

If the GM tells you that orcs are considered outcasts and looked segregated (at best) or persecuted or maybe even worse and he tells you why, you stop being the self-serving piece of shit your participation trophies have fooled you into thinking is acceptable and you accept it and play it or you play something else.

You are not smart enough to offer even a retarded argument to the contrary. Your moronic post makes me want to invent a time machine so I can shoot your fucking mother in the head before your dad blows his load in her.

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>>48922194
>Be DM
>Player makes a knuckleheaded move because he forgets the rules
>I get angry at him because I'm mentally tired for outside reasons
>We get in a short argument
>I realize I'm being a dick and apologize
>He apologizes for also being a dick
>We talk it out like regular human beans
>Everything goes back to normal
Maybe when you initially pitch the campaign you should say, 'Hey, I'm expecting people to be a human or non-orc because of X reasons and we should talk about it if you want to be something else'.
Just saying.

>>48923221
*mordhau
and actually i dont, i just play with sperglords like me

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>>48922406

Did OP state what system they were playing in? If their reasoning was "no, that would unbalance things", then yeah, that'd be a good reason to outright ban it, or allow it w/ the aforementioned penalties.

>>48922473

I think that, if the OP felt that this would unnecessarily distract from the game, that would be a fair reason to disallow orc characters. That's a fair alternative to "you can play a character I don't want, but I will punish you for it (even while making you thus the center of attention)". Or like, in other words, the half-orc is necessarily gonna be the center of attention if they're prevented from doing normal shit. You can make that fun or not fun, but you can't blame the player for you allowing that to be the situation.

>>48923225
This poster is pretty much spot-on, nobody sets out to be an out-and-out villain and anything can be spun. As an anecdotal example, I know someone who plays a Dunmer in a MUSH and has her entire circle of friends (who mostly don't play TES) convinced that the devil-worshipping slavers are the good guys, or at least misunderstood.

>>48923269
>taking the bait

you messerschmidts always think you're so smart.

>>48923328
That was my only problem with OP, like I sad, they are evil to everyone else, but come on, inherently evil? Its not a cartoon.

>>48923259
Oi faggot. DMs who don't even try to worldbuild in conjunction with their players to build a cooperative game everyone can enjoy are double-shitters, almost as bad as you.

Your inability to understand shared-world concepts and cooperation between all members of the game show that you cannot possibly construct a relevant counter-argument. Your idiocy makes me want to invent a time machine so I can club you in the head, drag you along to the past, and make you watch as I chemically castrate your grandfathers then observe the outcome of time paradox.

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>tfw my DM runs another game for 'all anthropomorphic PCs'
>tfw my DM is a closet furry
>uwotm8.jpg

>>48923399
Are you sure it's not just Mouse Guard or something?

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>>48923373
>It's not a cartoon
>Fantasy roleplaying
It's a sort of anthropic principle of fantasy games of the same type. They're inherently evil or we wouldn't be able to go around slaughtering little murderous goblin goons for loot and XP.
It's sort of a shaped like itself things, or why pseudoscience is used to explain why mecha work- if they didn't work, there would be no story of that type.

>>48923372
oh well, not to be a complete fagwad, i have a story too
>PC is planning a terrorist attack on cyborg district
>go to school
>scouting the school
>finds his way to cafeteria
>learns that lunches are served at set times
>"I know, ill start a food fight, and when they all drop from the fight, ill kill them"

should have let him find out the hard way hes not in a high school musical
sadly his char had average int

>>48923444
I realized I wasted trips on a bad explanation, so I'll just summarize it as follows:
It just works that way because that's the sort of game they want to play.

>>48923444
Yes, you would, and the characters would have to deal with knowing they are committing genocide for material wealth. it would inspire them to actually think instead of doing combat every time. And if they want combat, hey, video games.

>>48923399
I remember "winning" a game at a small con. The game was Ironclaw. I remember opening the book and seeing pics of these anthropomorphs.... getting to the pic of some female horse sitting and trying to look sexy.

My friend, just seeing my face, could tell something was wrong. I had actually never heard of furries! "Who'd want to play this???"

I actually still have the book on my shelf... with the other oddball games I've never or barely touched. Living Steel, Reichstar, Palladium's Ninjas and Superspies, Bunnies & Burrows... basically, it's my litmus shelf. I've told my friends and family that if they ever see me leafing through those books, I've been replaced by aliens and they should shoot me.

>>48922336
>Why would you build a setting that's inherently working against a core race?
Because he's the DM you shitstain if you don't wanna play his lore then fuck off

>by level four, a PC should pretty much be able to wipe out a town singlehandedly anyway
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>me: "hey, lets play a setting with giant robots?"
>players: "nah, it's too complicated"
>me: "how about a cyberpunk?"
>players: "nah, lets play medieval!!!"
>me: "okay, okay. better this than nothing."
>player1:"I'll be generic rogue with cleptomaniac and maximum skill score"
>player2:"I'll be an elf with maximum skilll score."
>player3:"I'll be a swordsman with a curse"
>me:"but that's the same character sheet you used on our past campaigns!"
>players:"so what?"

>>48923581
>I'll be generic rogue with cleptomaniac and maximum skill score

so just a rogue?

>>48923509
>it would inspire them to actually think instead of doing combat every time
I'm inclined to disbelieve you, but that's not the point.
It's like buying into the existence of finger-waving magic in fantasy games. The goblins are inherently evil because, in the setting, the goblins are IN FACT inherently evil. Besides, some people just enjoy playing tabletop games to playing video games, or want to take a break from hard philosophic, political, and moral decisions to just bust heads and level up.

>>48922521
>I didn't plan for you to fight him
that feeling when in my run one of the players killed 2 main npcs instead of incapping them or just taking to them

that feel when me and the dm that is following me just got a big section of our stories canned

>>48923225
No. It's simple, really, so I'll even re-use an exemple presentin this thread.
Evil god makes race
They know nothing of free spirit and don't have a choice, but enjoy being evil nonetheless
They know it is evil, and that's the reason they're doing it. Because it's their purpose
They don't do it because it's their standard of society (which, let's be honest, isn't really developped) but because it's the only thing they exist for.

Or also, the DM can just say "they're pure evil"
And he'll be right

>>48922194
>Not informing players before the game what kind of setting it is
>Gets pissy when player point out arbitrary decision is arbitrary
Next time - explain people your imaginative setting, instead of assuming everyone is a mind reader and don't need any explaination about the incoming game

>>48923602
uhh
yeah

but the one most annoying rogue in the world
>a tall man stands by the doors, holding a sword in each hand[long description]... and asks why you've come to the temple
"I'll steal this guy"
>a rather skinny orc(at least for their race standards) starts lecturing on you about the jewel of sharrais'rimur
"I'll steal this guy"
>the drag-
"I'll steal this guy"
>
"I'll steal this guy"

"I'll steal this guy"

and this is how I was driven mad. twentysomething campaigns and one-shot adventures playing with the same characters.

>>48923615
Yeah, theres no point in arguing. People have different concepts of fun. Just in my exp, giving PCs moral dilemmas, and various decisions that dont include fighting as the best option, results in a less railroaded game.

>>48923509
At this point, the discussion has looped
Remember that someone already told you that grey mentality isn't present in every setting

>>48922855
The mongols or other historic hoard. Bam that's how you evil race. Evil is subjective. To the average outside observer they are scary and evil. By the actions of their people and culture they're brought up in they fit the poorly defined alignment for evil.

Shut the fuck up and move on.

>>48923651
Man, how does an evil god even come into existence?

>>48923560
>words of wisdom

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>>48922194
OP, the conversation should have gone like this:
>Hey anon I want to be a half orc!
>I'm not allowing half-orc PCs in this game right now

You can still give your explanation if you want, but the issue has already been resolved with a tactful refusal. You want make it clear that this is not negotiable, that half-orcs are not a suitable PC race for this campaign.

Remember this: The game-master, along with his many other jobs, is also a gatekeeper. He gets the final say on what gets into the game-world. If you, the GM, do not approve of a player's choice about his PC, then you have the power to refuse that, or set conditions on which you might allow it (i.e. "I will allow you to use this feature, but you are not allowed to use it for this thing that I don't like").


I did this several times last week when prepping for a game. A player came to me wanting to name his PC "God", I told him no, he can't do that. I didn't want lizardmen or robot-crafter PCs in my game, so I said "you may not play a lizardman or machinist in this campaign".

However, you must learn not to abuse your GM-veto-power. I have seen too many GMs who are far too eager to veto anything that seems slightly off without explanation or further investigation (you can absolutely say "I need some time to figure out whether or not I should allow this"). Before you ban anything, you should be quite certain as to whether or not the ban is appropriate, and you should be respectful whenever possible.

>>48922761
>but WHY are they evil?
>because you said so?

No because the system did. Or yes. Because I'm the gm and am literally playing the fucking world. If I say they're evil...you'll never guess this. But that means they're fucking evil. Are there exceptions? Yeah probably, but guess what. Nobody is playing a dire sociology major so fuck off.

>>48923771
>man, how does true bait even come into existence

>>48923328
Dunmer are the good guys in TES though.

>>48923685
Fuck off. Your dumb assumptions aside, this was during character creation so the GM was explaining things ahead of time.

>>48922336
I hope I will never have you as a player or a GM in my life. Everything you just said is so utter garbage.

>>48923762
Dude, keeping slaves could be defined as evil to us, but to them it was normal. Killing wasnt evil, it was normal. No culture would do things they teach are "evil"

>>48923532
I read one of the Ironclaw books when I was a kid. Went to my FLGS to pick up some magic cards and saw it, figured it looked like Redwall (I was 10 or 12) and bought it. It wasn't half bad and the worldbuilding was pretty interesting iirc, furry shit aside. No idea how the actual system works though.

>>48923829
Hey man, why so hostile? Im just pointing out sociological flaws in your setting. Im just hoping your PCs know they are playing with a "i fucking said so thats why!!1!!" guy.

>>48923509

Boring.

>>48923916
Do you not know how stereotypes and racism work?

Generally speaking you don't do those things TO YOURSELF. It doesn't matter what they teach or how they feel about any of this shit. It matters how everyone else does.

And people generally aren't to fond of being enslaved, killed, raided, raped, pillaged, etc etc.

>>48923981
Than you gm so I can pick apart every single thing in your setting that wouldn't make sense outside of a fucking fantasy make believe game. It's a conceit of d&d. Racial alignments are a thing. Fucking get over it. I'm not defending the system, I'm calling you a cunt for playing something and bitching about having to play it.

>>48923916
In D&D, Good and Evil are not the same thing as right and wrong. Right and wrong are subjective, Good and Evil are objective. Good and Evil can both be detected and measured (to a limited extent), and the rules regarding them are consistently applied across all people and races.

D&D assumes "standard" western morality. Of course there's still room for interpretation for a particular GM, but in D&D the mongols are "Evil" though they would still consider themselves "right".

Of course in practice the mongols might still say "good", but that's dealing more with semantics.

>>48924026
Oh, no, I dont play DnD. That thing is too simple and morally ill defined. I already said I play with spergs like me, so im coo man. And If you try to tell me something like "well go play with them then blah blah", remember, it is YOU who started this thread, and wanted to bitch about stuff. Did you really expect only positive comments? Welcome to life, my niqqa, where things arent so simple like in DnD.

>>48923943
>No idea how the actual system works though.
It's pretty solid.

>>48923894
Don't be so cruel to garbage.

>>48923943
I can't help you. If I look at the book, I might get shot.

>>48924107
You're confused who you're talking to. I'm just an angry person who thought he'd join in.

>>48923981
>pointing out sociological flaws

And you have no idea just how hard you failed.

>>48922761
>>48922855
This is a game where Immortal Turtle Godzilla just fucking shows up sometimes. Do you hate fun?
>>48923981
In a setting with aforementioned Immortal Turtle Godzilla, "sociological flaws" are two words that should never, ever be brought up. Sometimes people just want to play something hack-and-slash with clear moral boundaries.

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>>48924051
>D&D assumes "standard" western morality.
I wouldn't say so. For example, stealing is not considered an evil act in D&D, but it is considered an evil act in the West. Another example: Western morality is based on Christianity, which has it that everyone is inherently evil but can be redeemed. Meanwhile D&D morality instead has some things inherently evil while others not.

D&D has grown large enough and lasted long enough that its features are based on itself. D&D morality is unique to D&D, and corresponds with no morality from anywhere else.

>>48922828
>not playing dnd
>indiefag
Toppest kek

>>48923894
Eh, if that's the case then you're probably not someone I want in my games either.

When my group starts a new game, we take a lot of time discussing the kind of game we want; no-one goes in blind. Taking the spirit of the game and considering the assumptions that come with that, I like to build worlds together with my players, most of whom have DM'd as well; this lets us round-robin when one of us starts to get tired of DMing and gives us a setting we can all agree on. I'm not ForeverDM, even if I'm the most comfortable doing it and moderating discussions prior. Moreover, we hash out an accord on what is economically feasible in the setting, average expectations of villages/towns/cities, etc. and a lot of other logistical and economic worldbuilding details. We discuss what powerlevels mean, and expectations of what PCs should be capable of doing, socially, by leveraging their power.

But hey, if that level of cooperative worldbuilding and systemic understanding isn't for you, that's cool.

>>48924179
>>48924184
I didnt know I was dealing with a game that brakes logic and common sense on this level.
At this point, DnD sounds like less of a rpg system and more of a quick laugh type of thing. How can I be invested in a character if in the setting there exists a Turtle Godzilla?

>>48924289
>How can I be invested in a character if in the setting there exists a Turtle Godzilla?
The autism is real.

>>48923877
I would very much be interested in hearing why you say that. I think of them as the Klingons of the setting: so, so hardcore! And then they get chumped every time to show how hardcore the dragon lineage is.

>>48924285
You sound like a fun guy.
Unironically.

>>48923762
Mongols were more lawful than anything else.

>>48924329
Man, dude, broseph. When i want to rp, i want to experience a life of a medieval man, his toils, of a spacefarer, worrying about food and fuel. I dont want to be in a monty python sketch.

>>48924411
>when I play fantasy roleplaying games, I don't want there to be any fantasy in the
Back to DSA with you.

>>48924460
To each his own, man.

>>48924460
What's DSA?

>>48924525
It means Distinctively Slippery Anal.

>>48924525
Das Schwarze Auge. Translated, The Black Eye, a D&D-clone that comes from Germany. A German company couldn't secure rights to translate D&D to German, so they decided to build their own tabletop game, using D&D as an inspiration. Here's a review of an older edition; the game hasn't changed much since then, I'm told.

http://tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?t=56313

>>48924626
Sounds pretty good at a glance. I'll look into it since it was recommended to a sperg anon I agree with.

>>48922194
>>Hey anon I want to be a half orc!
People still calling them half-orcs?

Seriously. In my runs I run and play in, their just orcs. Who the fuck wants to just play the half breed?

>>48924749
Full orcs have a worse statblock.

>>48924803
Full orcs are choppier, and have full ferocity.

>>48922761
They're not evil. It's just they sincerely believe that they must inflict suffering on others so that their malevolent gods will be appeased

>>48922194
You understand that you're being the asshole, right? You made half-orcs effectively unplayable, not for any real reason, just for the hell of it.

>>48922194
>and how in almost every setting orcs are inherently evil

Not in D&D, which I presume you're using because you're talking about half-orcs and posted an alignment meme. They're evil because of their culture and the influence of Gruumsh. And while, yes, both of those things are pretty constant and tend to make orcs evil, there's no particular reason why an orc raised apart from other orcs and inured from Gruumsh's influence (in a convent to another, equally powerful deity, for example) couldn't turn out to be something different.

>And how most medieval settings are racist

D&D is not actually Medieval and never really has been. There is nothing Medieval about rust monsters or mind flayers. One of the earliest modules had the players invading a crashed UFO, for Chrissake.

>The OP pic

Leaving aside whether or not Mal actually is Neutral Good, I can think of three times he shoots to kill an unarmed man, and twice when he succeeds in doing so. That's not a good choice for his quote.

>>48925385
Also V is pretty chaotic neutral. Doesn't really care about much beyond destroying the government.
That said the argument could be made for the film version I guess

>>48922336
>All that aside, objections to a halfsie should last all of three levels; by level four, a PC should pretty much be able to wipe out a town singlehandedly anyway,
Not in D&D5e
Thank you bounded accuracy

>>48925718
>Not in D&D5e
Nor in old-school. A level 4 fighter would get torn to pieces by that many normal men in a fair fight.

Thanks, reasonable power-scaling.

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>>48922732
they changed the backstory in 5e. kind of ruined it for my backstory, i said fuck it and went with the rape background. that character died in a badass hero way makes me feel good. this is my new character. DM has more evil half orcs which i don't mind good to change it up

>>48924352
They're good because they dissent against corrupt, decadent, and obsolete Aldmeric religion and culture, especially as regards the relationships between mortals and Daedra. None of the major crises of any era would've occurred if everyone else were like the Dunmer.

>>48924289
There's no violation of logic or common sense. You're just basing both your logic and your common sense on incorrect presumptions. When your presumptions are wrong, then your conclusions will very likely be wrong, as well. While there are certainly exceptions, this isn't one of them.

>>48925269
>GM does nearly all the work setting up a campaign.
> Entitled player wants his special snowflake
>GM says no.

It's that simple. The GM creates the setting. The setting TELLS players what they can and can't do, play and expect.

How and when did so many players become such cunts? As GM, I'm required to put a lot of additional time into setting up and running the game. I know it's a voluntary position (mostly...) but that, in itself, should mean the players who don't do anything more than show up should respect it.

If you want that much providence, run a fucking game yourself.

>>48923188
>implying player controlled antagonists aren't significantly more rewarding to kill

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Little tidbit from when I played a hork fighter in a racist setting.

>town guard: we dont let your kind into the city
>hork: why
>guard: orcs r bad kill humans
>hork: what kills more humans, orks or other humans

My hork was a soldier, all the human vs human wars he participated in backed up that claim pretty well. Orks can sweep through an undefended village, humans ravaged the entire continent.

>>48923762
Alignment is not meant to be subjective.

Orcs in D&D are usually a servile race that are the cruel servants of evil powers, and often are created to be evil servants.

>>48922194
I don't DM but I played with one who outright banned elves in his games, doesn't matter the setting he just really hated elves.

>>48922194
Picard was Lawful Good, dude. The Prime Directive isn't some villainous document or even a bureaucratic clusterfuck.

>"The Prime Directive is not just a set of rules; it is a philosophy... and a very correct one. History has proven again and again that whenever mankind interferes with a less developed civilization, no matter how well intentioned that interference may be, the results are invariably disastrous."

There are exceptions of course; if the civilization is about to implode its only planet with some hackneyed experiment they've come up with (or possibly this is exactly the interference of another third party that needs to be corrected...) then a quiet wire-snip that makes it all fail might be a good thing.

It gets even more important to follow them AND understand when they need to be bent just a little when it turns into the Temporal Prime Directive later on, since all of a sudden forget individual civilizations, the slightest bit of fucking around can have galactic repercussions.

Inflexible laws are quickly abused or made worthless, after all.

>>48922536
>how can wizard shoot fireball

>>48922698
>tfw no manly orc husbando to brutally ravage your bp then hold you in his big, strong arms as you drift to sleep, lost in his embrace

>>48923719
>>48923581
I don't know your players but I really have a hard time coming up with original characters, I usually just play cliche fighters

>>48927873
Prime Directive is LN.

So often, the issue the crew faces is to stop some world-ending event without violating the PD. If the crew hadn't found a way, they would (and had) let calamity occur. You can't get more LN than that.

And before you say it, maybe it would be best to let the calamity occur but they never know. And, as far as alignment goes, the moment you open the door to "ends justify the means", you're missing the point. A paladin can't rape some helpless peasant to save her from being a virgin sacrifice, for example...

>>48923262
lol, liek that ever happened, ever?

>>48922521
I fucking hate this shit, when I set up things to be interesting or introduce a town or character or group that could be bargained with or allied with or anything but its always
>LETS ATTACK THEM

Why? Why do you wanna kill everything?

>>48931708
you can talk to people IRL
you play games to kill stuff, which you can't normally do IRL (well, without repercussions, that is)

>>48931738
In that case lets do away with storyline, any RP games or video games shouldn't have story or complex characters, just a giant room with wave after wave of varying enemy

fuck off

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>>48922336
>asking your players what they want to play
>being this much of a gmcuck

>>48922521
It's quite common for GMs to play powerful characters like that in a way that makes them seem like a villain. As a hero, you can't let the villain go free or he might betray your agreement and / or put the world in peril.

Thus, they feel like they have to stop him.

>>48931782
suits me. i have storyline and RP enough IRL. i have to RP a decent and sane human being without murderous tendencies every day

>>48931980
Edgy

>>48923802
But the GM obviously don't mind half orc characters.
But said character should be prepared for the actual social circumstances they'd find themselves in.
An easy way around this issue is collect enough resources to move to a faraway land where all the characters will be viewed the same.

>>48922406

I have never seen any power gamer choose a race that wasn't a fucking human.

You're legit retarded.

>>48922521
This is why you use a system where the players cannot attack.

>>48932637
Finally! I know why people play Dungeon World!

>>48922194
>not rolling with the punches and maybe, just maybe, changing people's opinions on your race

It annoys me when players are so unwilling to take bad with the good when it comes to their characters. They'll claim they want to make interesting characters, but the moment it's not all peachy they lose their shit.

>>48923398
The way you like to worldbuild is not the way everyone likes to worldbuild, nor is it the default to the extent that people departing from it are the weird ones who need to flag things up.

"The GM builds the world, then we play in it" is a fine, well-established way of doing things. Is it the One True Way? No, but it's perfectly fine and sound and I think is in most instances the default way of doing things.

Now, "Everyone collaboratively builds the world" can absolutely be a blast, but that doesn't mean you need to be an ass to people who prefer other ways of doing things.

>>48932897
>World of Things That Hate Other Things In The Same World
>a world created by a bunch of people who couldn't agree on anything
>a brutal and bizarre experience

>>48922194
Xenomorphs are clearly true neutral.

>>48922194
Technically xenomorph is true neutral
He just wants to feed and reproduce

I'd swap V and Sparrow

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>>48922194
>reward one of the players with a special benefit/new power/magic item because they successfully completed a roleplay milestone relevant to their character
>plan to have each character receive similar power boosts as they complete their relevant milestones
>other players complain that they didn't get a reward and that it's unfair and unbalanced to have one character somewhat stronger than the others

>>48922194
>be gm
>write an own module for races and worldbuilding, for open use within our gaming group
>friend also writes quite a bit of source material
>asks me if i can use it as a part of the campaign
>okay
>it is a setting completely avoiding all kinds of ecological mechanisms known to men
>no oxigen , no water. the only source of life is a magical purple slime. no food chain principles at all, no cycle of anything.
>basicly it is a dark and edgy mars recolor in black and purple
>it has humanoid species that are actively created by the world itself
>i can still work with this.png
>he allows terrestial beings to adapt to the environment by using magic
>i try to flesh out the possible changes the interaction between both completely different worlds would bring
>like spirituals using their powers to adapt to this world
>using artifacts to alter the animals and plants until they can live there on their own, since who wouldnt want to have some nice flowers in a world completely made out of rock and tentacle monsters the closest being to trees
>local tribes agreeing to trade and cultural exchange
>have a tribe in mind that dismisses the old naming convention that is being forced upon them by the world's conciousness, adapts the "new" names

>tells me that nothing within this world changes because the world mind controlls everything to be super conservative

>yeah in this case i would play it out with less mind control on certain races
>but then you wouldnt be using my setting at all and it just turns into a boring place like earth
>i would have to rewrite my whole module if you introduced plants etc.
>but the changes would only be local and not sgnificant to your module

>yeah but if you change it i dont know if i would have fun to play it

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>>48936366
he is a good guy but he gets pretty rigid about his setting module.
as a GM it causes me mental pain to use something supposed to be open source according absolute rules when i want some creative freedom to do things my way and make a more dynamic world.
no one dared to use his setting since they dont want to deal with him getting upset.

>>48924285
>I ask permission from my players for every little thing that might inconvenience their characters
>In the process spoiling the entire campaign and essentially making the players do all my work for me
They don't even need you at that point. You could just walk out, and at that point you probably should.

>>48924749
People who know the difference between "their" and "they're," presumably.

>>48927873
Picard was totally LN. He was an establishment square to a fault and let a lot of innocent people die in the name of abstract Federation principles.

Movie Picard, on the other hand, was CN bordering on CE.

>>48927873
The Prime Directive dictates that, if a pre-Industrial people are about to get wiped out by some natural disaster - such as, say, their atmosphere getting fucked due to random space anomoly - and there is nothing that a starship captain can do to prevent it, he should stand aside and let the pople die out rather than lift a finger to save even a single one of them.

TNG Season 6, "Homeward". This exact thing happens. Picard stands by and watches as an entire world, Boreal, full of tens of millions of people die, rather than acting to save even a few of them by transporting them to his ship.

It takes the explicitly illegal acts of Worf's adopted brother, Nikolai Rozhenko, to save any of them (specifically, a small village), by smuggling them onto the Enterprise-D. After that point Picard doesn't get brownie points just because he didn't kill few surviving Borealans and instead brought them to a new world.

The Prime Directive is based on good intentions, but that doesn't make it good, especially considering that we know what the road to Hell is paved with.

>>48927650
When people with a strong bias get cornered like that they tend to get angrier, they dont go "oh, I guess you're right!, please, enjoy the fair Mr. Orc". If an homosexual tries to talk to a bunch of Westboro Baptist fanatics hes not gonna have a philosophical discussion, hes gonna get his ass beaten.

>>48922194
>He thought it was stupid.
He was right. It was stupid. And so are you.