MtG Modern General

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>>48826547
Decklists:
>http://www.mtggoldfish.com/metagame/modern#paper

Primers:
>http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern

TIERS ARE USAGE-BASED. A Tier 2 deck may be better than a Tier 1 deck in a specific Metagame.

First for UW D&T.

So what's the deal with D&T decks now? Is eldrazi and taxes a straight upgrade or is it meta dependent as to which is better?

>>48826662
Eldrazi is a straight upgrade since there's no real reason to be playing mono colour in Modern.

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>>48826683
Mono white is has a more consistent mana base and a waaaay better burn match and doesn't die to a fucking bloodmoon.
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=106371

>>48826994
>and doesn't die to a fucking bloodmoon.

that's like saying tarmogoyf is shit because it dies to doom blade

>>48827074
If doomblade was a heavily played card ala lightning bolt that would be a correct assessment.

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>>48826683
You're an idiot. The reason to play MonoW is the Fetchland hosers, Arbiter and Mindcensor, which serve as the backbone of DnT.

>>48827263
Those would be the taxes part of eldrazi and taxes.

Hahaha! You wanted to play Magic? Fool! Only one of us get to play Magic tonight!

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/25-02-16-taking-turns/

>>48827519
Fuck outta here you lanky bum crack

>>48827263
by the time leo hits the board you've already got your colors and can just nuke him.

What does Blue and White have against a Tron matchup? Stony silence is never enough in my experience. Is Ghost Quarter and Tec edge all there really is besides Stony?

>>48828153

get hand info and pithing needle his o stone/ugin/karn

>>48826597
Eldrazi and taxes is as good as its going to get

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Why is Greater Gargadon so damn expensive? I can kind understand the whole dredge thing, but for real though, why?

>>48828282
It likes to eat all your money.

>>48828282
Because when a new deck performs well investors pick one card and force up the price with buyouts.

>>48826994
And e&t has access to eldrazi. Why do you think mono w has a way better burb my?

>>48827263
You don't need fetches to play multiple colours you faggot.

>>48828370
*Burn MU

>>48828153
Ghost Quarter, Spreading Seas.

>>48828282
Because people are stupid and follow the winning deck. Bridge Dredge is dangerously inconsistent and it's been somewhat luck that let it take home two big tournaments and somewhat the sheer number of people playing it in the second. You'll notice that of the top 32 only one of the Dredge lists that made it were using 4 Gargadon 4 Bridge.

It's hype.

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I'v been making a modern graveyard based deck with creatures like Splinterfright, Boneyard wurm and Ghoul tree as some of the base cards.
But I'm not sure if I should include blue or black in the deck. Black gives me access to cards like Vengeful Pharaoh, Lord of Extinction, Jarad and Worm harvest, but blue has Mirror-mad, Scaab ruinator, exploit cards and some instants that make my creatures unblockable. Or I couls just make it Sultai.

>>48828472
Is your graveyard deck faster or more consistent than dredge? No? Then play dredge.

I want to make Eggs great again. Lotus Bloom is a card begging to be broken. There must be something no one's noticed.

>>48828472
This is the modern competitive general.

>>48828600
Oh sorry, didn't see comp.

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>>48827856
Sure, after all I get tired after winning all day. When I'm not taking all the turns, I'm practicing this deck. It was hard at first, but I'm putting up better results now.
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/meek-thopters-3/

>>48828649
Taking turns isn't even a good deck.

>>48828140
so...second turn then? because hes literally 2 mana you moron

>>48828472

>black gives me access to vengeful pharoah

lol

colorless gives you access to vengeful pharoah, dredge gives you access to vengeful pharoah

>>48828761
yeah. what part of my statement didn't you understand?

>>48828251
>mono white put up most of the results this month and the sole reason it's tier 2.

Get fucked

When are we going to get cards that proactively protect graveyards?

>Darlagoyf
>while Darlagoyf is in play graveyards have hexproof

No enemy snappy shit either

Daily reminder that major vendors are given prior information about new sets and that Reid Duke's brother Works in R&D.

>>48829089
That wouldn't do anything. "You have hexproof" effects protect you from things like Bojuka Bog and Relic's first mode. "Cards in graveyards have hexproof" protects you from things like Faerie Macabre or Memory's Journey. "Cards can't be exiled from graveyards" would protect you from the trigger of Rest in Peace and from Relic of Progenitus. There's not really a straightforward way to word something that would protect you from the static effects of Rest in Peace, Leyline of the Void or Anafenza though. The closest thing would be to outright reverse it, since a replacement effect can only be applied to an event once, but they'd never do that because it would read something like "If a card or token would be exiled from anywhere, instead put it into its owner's graveyard" and that would cause all sorts of problems.

>>48829175
Here's your reminder that nobody cares.

>>48829332
Which is why the game is going to shit.

>>48828594
>There must be something no one's noticed.
There isn't.

>>48829381
You're just a whiny man child.

>>48829462
Enjoy being manipulated for your hard-earned cash.

>>48829777
>Not being in on it

What are the top 3 most obnoxious modern lists to play against that aren't garbage (IE they should atleast be tier 3).

>>48829777
I have plenty of expendable money. How about just worry about yourself

>>48829854
Esper draw go
Mardu
Spirits tribal

All 3 are solid tier 1 decks.

>>48829325
>Spells and abilities your opponent control can't prevent cards from going to your graveyard
>Spells and abilities your opponent control can't remove cards from you graveyard
Is there any reason this wouldn't work?

>>48829854
Tron
Grishoalbrand
Burn

>>48829854
mardu pox is rad as fuck son

>>48830035
Wew lad you're retarded
>what are obnoxious decks

>this shit deck is rad bro!

>>48829951
Saying something can't "prevent" an action implies that what it is stopping is a Prevention Effect. RiP isn't a Prevention Effect, it's a Replacement Effect, so that doesn't quite work out.

>Spells and abilities your opponent controls can't exile cards from your graveyard
Would work the same as "Cards in graveyards can't be exiled", except for not protecting your opponent.

I guess you might also be able to get away with some very awkward wording like "If a card would be put into your graveyard, it can't be exiled", but I'm pretty sure that would break something too.

>>48830192
Create a new keyword.

Graveyards are stale.
They cannot be interacted in anyway by your opponent or spells they control

>>48830265
The thing is, abilities that affect how cards in your graveyard are treated wouldn't save you from Rest in Peace's Replacement Effect, because Rest in Peace is modifying where cards that are not in the graveyard would be put.

>>48830305
Well word it differently it's their job to figure this out. It really wouldn't be that hard. Just ban rip. Lazy design

>>48830342
They only need to figure it out if they want to print cards that protect your graveyard, which is not something it really seems like they want to do.

>>48830379
>>48830342
Alright, I think this works, but it sounds pretty weird:
>If a spell or ability an opponent controls would affect a card or token that would be put into your graveyard from anywhere, you may ignore that spell or ability.

That's more-or-less the way it would work so that it can't be abused with any of your own cards.

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>>48830094
>obnoxious deck
>at least tier 3

fite me fgt

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Would a card like this see play in modern? Or does it seem too weak for what it does?

>>48830692
>turn 1 burd
>turn 2 3 drop
>turn 3 Evolution to this guy, win the game
seems fine. would be a fringe deck in the vein of grishoalbrand

>>48830661
I think you may actually have a disability. I'm sorry then.

>>48830692
There are zero instants or sorceries that cost 1 generic mana

>>48830692
>Expedite gives it Haste
>Tainted Strike gives it +1/+0 and Infect
>Ruse of Adrenaline gives it +2/+1 and Trample
>Coat with Venom gives it +1/+2 and Deathtouch
>Each Might of Old Krosa gives it +4/+4

It basically lets you make a janky ass combo with one chance to kill your opponent. It's not the greatest, but someone would play it.

>>48830856
It says converted mana cost before that, so it's obvious >>48830692 just doesn't know how to force formatting in MSE (Highlight the number and press Ctrl+m).

>>48830856
it's converted mana cost of 1

>>48830692
What would it even do? Use a combat trick on a summoning sick creature? Bolt your own creature?

You probably have some very specific combo in mind and making cards solely for those is just bad design. Also this is not custom card general.

>>48830977
Slip Through Space would also give it unblockable and draw a card. 5 mana you win is not really a fun design though.

>>48831145
Instants, anon.

>>48831084
see
>>48830780

>>48830601
That's like turning on the air conditioning because the radiator is too warm.

>>48831084
>Use a combat trick on a summoning sick creature?

There are at least 4 Modern legal CMC 1 Instants that give haste, so that's a big part of the trick right there.

>>48831280
So it's "have a counter or die on the spot"
Yeah, great card

>>48831381
It does necessitate a very fragile and shitty deck though. It's a 110% Johnny card, it would never do well enough to be a real threat but it would be an obnoxious thing to die to.

It probably would not see print with Hexproof. Considering it is a do or die card, it should at least be vulnerable to being shot.

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>>48828594
Try kci eggs. Here's my list for it. Usually go 2-2-0 at fnm with it, and that's about as good as the deck will ever do without second sunrise

What do people think of modern puzzles for these threads? Like, describing a situation in a match and asking people to figure out the best moves?

>>48831956
I love them

>>48831956
I think it's pure autism.

>>48831956
depends on the deck they're related to. if nothing else, I like that they keep the thread bumped so I have stuff to read at work.

>The problem
Modern can attack you from so many different angles that it's impossible to play a reactive game and everyone is forced into proactive decks.

>The solution
Reprint Force of Will so reactive decks have ways to stop fast decks in their tracks, and reprint Wasteland so you can attack mana bases harder. Wasteland would also make mono colour decks more viable as it would let them bully enemy mana bases.

Force and Wasteland are actually the heroes Modern needs.

>>48832074
I don't know about Wasteland, but it would be interesting to test out Force in Modern.

>>48832074
just play legacy. wasteland is absolutely not ok if the best dual lands we have access to are shocks.

>>48831515
I want to try and make Geosurge work.

>T1
Steam Vents, egg
>T2
Steam Vents, Reshape the egg for 0, get Lotus Petal, crack for RRR, Pyretic Ritual, Geosurge, play eggs to launder the mana into normal mana

>>48832130
Perhaps the problem is you're being too greedy with your manabase then. It's not like Daze is legal.

>>48832154
>Geosurge
>Cycle a star for U
>Snapcaster Geosurge
STORM
T
O
R
M

>>48832212
>Throw in a Cloud Key to make eggs cost 0
Oh god I'm brewing as hard as I can. I'll probably need to make this RUG just for Ancient Stirrings.

>>48831980
>>48832005
>>48832068
Lets try this one. You are in an ad nauseam mirror match, game 1, on your fourth turn and have not played a land yet. You have three lands, a lotus bloom, and a pentad prism with 2 counters on it, you have decided to combo off using the lotus bloom and three lands to cast angel's grace and then ad nauseam. The opponent taps their last untapped mana to cast angel's grace in response to ad nauseam, and then lets your ad nauseam resolve. You currently have a lotus bloom and pact of negation in hand. What do you do?

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>>48832328
>cloud key
What about a lower cmc version?

>>48832385
I'm going up to at least 7 cards in hand and leaving mana up to keep my opponent from going off next turn. although I'm pretty sure it was retarded of us to attempt to go off in the first place.

>>48832498
Didn't even know that existed. I dunno about it though.

>>48832385
Take this autistic shit to fucking mtgs or something.

>>48832550
What would you rather talk about?

>>48832899
judging by the rest of the thread, he'd probably rather bitch about prices or bannings or shitpost about esper draw go and mardu midrange.

>>48832505
This isn't the optimal play, while this is certainly mitigating your losses, there exists a much stronger play.

>>48832998
I'm not surprised I missed the best line; I've never played the deck and rarely played against it. does angels grace say you can't lose or just your life total can't go below 1? are we supposed to cast lab man and serum visions? I'm too lazy to look up deck lists or oracle text.

>>48833125
They can't lose the game and you can't win the game in addition to the not being able to go below 1 from damage ability. So you can't win the game this turn.

>>48833161
so after we make a land drop we have 3 mana on board? if we flip the deck, we can use monkeys to cast lab man and unlife?

>>48833466
This is the optimal play. It sets up a win on your next turn and forces the opponent to have multiple angel's graces to win. When you discard to hand size, you would keep three pact of negations, your other three angel's grace, and the last card doesn't matter. This effectively prevents your opponent from doing anything relevant during their next turn and allows you to win on your next draw step or the draw step after that if they have multiple angel graces.

See this video, where in a very similar scenario, the guys opponent misses this play.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNY53olLtFE

>>48833585
Why wouldn't you just Pact his Angel's Grace if you had one in hand?

>>48833797
>Split Second

What do you guys think about ur storm
can it be viable
i want to build it but im in doubt

>>48834065
not viable without significant changes to the ban list or new cards getting printed. I'm not sure which is more likely, but they're both low probability.

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Soo i'm thinking of building a new casual deck and im torn between mono G devotion or mono G tron

G devotion would be arbor elfs, eternal witness', voyaging satyrs, ramp spells (overgrowth+Utopia), Garruk/Nissa worldwaker. Could upgrade to tooth and nail type deck

G Tron
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/320767#paper
Could upgrade to GR tron down the line

Anyway, what are your guys' suggestions?

>>48834325
that's a pauper deck, so it has a decent number of cards that aren't modern legal, including crop rotation

>>48834471
I know, its would be for kitchen table. Sylvan Scrying would take its place

>>48834613
that makes sense, but scrying is much worse since you can't put denied steppe on at instant speed

>>48834278
not even tier 2/3?
it seems like a good deck

>>48834800
How so?

>>48834800
I mean I have a friend who plays it at fnm sometimes. he does pretty well but there store isn't very competitive.

>>48834800
>it seems like a good deck
Most of the aggro decks in modern are faster and more resilient than storm.

>>48834613
Wrong thread mang. This is the Modern Competitive General

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>>48834853
>>48834829
>>48834820
ok

>>48834894
I mean I know most lists run scalding tarn but it's not actually essential. just use khans fetches, then it's pretty cheap and you have a mana base and cantrips that slot into real decks and storm isn't too expensive. so build it if you really want. it's good enough for fnm.

>>48832074
Instead of turning Modern into Legacy why not just fucking play Legacy?
Also they will never EVER reprinyt Wasteland or Force in Standard

>>48832074

>Reprint Force of Will

Stopped reading there. You don't know the format. This is a entirely different pile than Legacy where FoW is absolutely needed to be able to police the format.

Now you could say an argument that Modern could have Mental Mistep unbanned which would have some merit seeing as that blue is not a super dominant colour in Modern as opposed to Legacy and the card could actually end up being the policeman of the format and be able to answer certain 1 drop openings(Ancient Stirrings, Aether Vial, Goblin Guide, Glistener Elf, Thoughtseize, IoK, Lava Spike). It may very well end up with every single deck running MM but maybe the format needs it, as far as I know MM isn't too big of a problem in the no-banlist Modern tournaments.

>>48836152
As a player that normally hates counters I would like this. Turn 1 discard is so powerful and there isn't many anti discard effects available.

>>48830601
>Dredge player detected
Don't want to lose to a single card? Don't play the mechanic more hated by the designed in the game after storm

>>48836585
I think you mean >>48830342. I was just figuring out how to word it for the sake of figuring it out.

If mental misstep would be unbanned, every deck would play 4, if only to counter your opponents misteps

Whats a good deck that compliments ad nauseams bad matchups but also has a similar play style?

>>48837129
Ban miststep from all formats, make a U instant that you can pay 2 life to reveal an island, you could also use the ability if you control an island. If you can show the island after paying 2 life you get to cast the not mental mistep.

>>48837129
That's literally the reason it's banned, m8.

>>48837659
>>48837129
if it was B I think it MAYBE could get unbanned.

>>48837669
Do you mean if it cost U? B is the letter for Black.

>>48837669
>if it was B
A black unconditional counterspell? Get outta town!

>>48837771
>>48837769
You know what I meant.

>>48837659
Yeah, no shit. The other anons were talking about it getting unbanned

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Post your favorite special snowflake sideboard tech card

Rise/Fall can be fucking devastating

>>48838095
How so?

>>48837129

>If mental misstep would be unbanned, every deck would play 4, if only to counter your opponents misteps

No I think that's exaggerated. Some lists have very few 1 drops anyway that Mistep will just be a dud against them. There's no rituals, or cantrips or powerful 1 mana draw cards that you absolutely must answer. The creatures at CMC 1 that need to be thrown down can sidestep it with either Cavern of Souls or Aether Vial. Affinity doesn't care about it for the most part and Burn will just laugh. Despite cards like Bolt, Path, IoK and Thoughtseize being played there's a huge chunk of cards at cmc 2 and cmc 3 that make up a large chunk of the most played cards in Modern as well.

>>48838310
>Affinity doesn't care about it for the most part

It would hurt Galvanic Blasts mostly. And getting a Springleaf Misstepped could end up pretty rough.

Will dredge still be a good deck after the meta adapts to it?

>>48838425

They aren't the most crucial important cards in the deck for the most part. In most cases you'd see them turn to bringing in more Shrapnel Blast if that was the case with MM unbanned.

On another note while this is just purely for amusement, many non-blue decks are not running Mental Mistep in the No banlist Modern tournaments while the blue decks are running 2-4 copies though bear in mind that's probably needed to fight Storm.

>>48838310
Except that is what happens when misstep is legal, because every deck can run them which means they will run them

>>48838559
Deck will still be amazing turn 1, but sideboard will make it scoop staggeringly often.
Dredgevine, while not as consistently fast and explosive, is more resilient to hate than its combo counterparts since if all else fails, you can win with Lotleth troll beat ins or hard-cast Vengevines

>>48838559

The meta should already be "pre-adapted" to Dredge anyway. Fairly sure many decks already run Grafdigger's, Relic of Progenitus, Tormod's or RiP already.

>>48838619

I highly doubt it, you can't just slam 4 copies of MM into Zoo or RG Tron just because it's there. Abzan CoCo has no reason to run it and neither would Jund. The only deck that is Tier 1 that can easily slot in 4 MM without considering much else is Merfolk. Ad Nauseam wouldn't really care either.

>>48838621
>>48838624
Dredge is basically Affinity #2. A deck that is almost guaranteed to win game 1 but with premium hate for game 2 and 3. Much the same as with Affinity, Dredge is capable of winning through the hate by establishing a powerful board presence in the first two turns if the opponent didn't manage to land their hate cards soon enough.

Their position isn't really likely to get any worse than it currently is, since graveyard hate has already been stacked against them. The fun part is that now there are two powerful fringe threats that can sweep tournaments if the hate for them wanes, so it can be something of a game of predictions as to which is better based on what people haven't been vigilant enough to be boarding for.

>>48838767

To be honest I really find the Dredge deck to be wildly inconsistent in playtesting. Hell even Grishoalbrand is more consistent. Or maybe I just have really bad luck with the deck.

>>48838679
I absolutely would in Zoo. And I play Tron and being able to counter discard, or countering my opponents couunter to ancient stirrings sounds nice. You have no idea what you're talking about. Look up why it was banned to begin with and why its cancer. Every deck would play it because its the perfect counter to itself

>>48838902
Are you playing the Bridge version? Loam Dredge is a lot better about it.

One of the other problems you might be having is if you're at all reluctant to mulligan. The deck can often still win even going down to 4 cards if it has to, so don't hesitate if you don't see a gameplan in your opening 7.

>>48838951

Nah that's not the version i'm playing, I'm playing the Dredgevine version. So i'm guessing that's an outdated version.

As for the mulligans i'm pretty much always looking for that turn 1 Insolent Neonate. Or if on the play the old classic "draw and discard at end step"

>>48838935

Okay so what 4 cards in Zoo do you drop to play MM?

>>48838992
I've been playing Dredgevine since before Amalgam and Neonate, so since it was B A D.
Dredgevine can be a lot more inconsistent, but I like it quite a bit despite that. Unlike the other Dredge decks, faithless looting is your better T1. Neonate is better T2 since you can cast it, activate it to discard a vengevine, then use your second land drop to cast either another neonate or a gravecrawler to get that discarded Vine back right away

>>48838992

>on the play

I clearly meant on the DRAW.

>>48839030
Anything seeing as misstep counters pretty much the whole deck, and it lowers my life total

>>48838992
>I'm playing the Dredgevine version

Yeah, no, Dredgevine is not that good.

>>48839067

That's Suicide Zoo, I only mentioned regular Zoo. I know it's a no brainer in Suicide Zoo.

Kind of a beginner question, but how do U/G and U/G/x decks normally play? I love the color combination, and think Standard is not worth pouring money into, so I was gonna get into Modern, but wanna play my favorite colors.

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Went 2-1-1 at lgs felt I did pretty good beat a dredge deck.

>>48840105
O yeah pillar of flame in sideboard

>>48840105
Nice anon, glad it went well!

>the absolute madman added more ball lightnings

Dude I love you, you make burn players proud.

>>48840105
What was the sideboard and how did you sideboard for the dredge matchups?

>>48840094
your options are
actual decks: infect, rug(x) scapeshift
less actual decks: bug midrange, rug delver
not actually a deck at all: rug prowess, ug tempo

>>48838935
>countering my opponents counter to ancient stirrings
How many tier 1 decks are you playing against that counter ancient stirrings in game 1 anon?
What are you cutting from RG tron to play MM?
What are you going to do when you topdeck that MM on turn 4?

Mental Misstep is a powerful card in legacy that probably wouldn't be healthy for the format were it legal. It is not nearly as backbreaking in modern and would not in any way centralize the metagame.

Every deck can play Dismember and Gitaxian Probe as well. Why do you think it is that not every deck runs x4 Gitaxian probe to essentially become a 56 card deck?

>>48840670
not him but
>why do you think it is that not every deck runs 4 gitaxian probe
literally because burn is a deck. that's it.

>>48836152
Mental misstep isn't a blue card, its colorless. Nobody in the history of ever has paid U for it. Misstep leads to retarded games where you play a one drop, they play a one drop, it gets countered, and you just win off of the tempo advantage.

Modern needs cards like innocent blood and force spike. More maindeckable ways to get the aggro decks on turn 1.

>>48840668
What makes RUG Delver and BUG Midrange less actual decks? I figured those decks would have answers for anything a opponent throws at them with access to burn and removal spells

>>48840725
Performance. Time has shown that they are not quite on the same level.

>>48840725
>>48840741

Weaker cantrips really is the big factor.

>>48840741
That just gives me motivation to take one and make it perform on the same level.

>>48840683

Or it's because it doesn't work in some decks like Living End. Ad Nauseam has no reason to run G Probe despite the fact that Burn is one of its best matchups.

>>48840712
>not running Mana Tithe

As much as I love force spike and think it's crazy that blue doesn't have it in modern, that shit would only help tempo decks and probably wouldn't slow down the format as much as you'd hope, but I could be wrong.

>>48840712

>Misstep leads to retarded games where you play a one drop, they play a one drop, it gets countered, and you just win off of the tempo advantage.

Unlikely. I can drop Cavern of Souls naming Elves and cast shit forever. As for the tempo argument Boomerang is legal in the format and nobody runs it despite the fact that you could bounce someones first landdrop after you drop your second land and severely put them behind. They either got a Spell Pierce or Dispel there and then or they're fucked.

>>48840712

>Mental misstep isn't a blue card, its colorless. Nobody in the history of ever has paid U for it.

Doesn't matter what they pay for it, it's still a blue card for purposes of cards that specifically interact with things that are blue. Just like how Dismember is "colourless" but still can't hit a Chameleon Colossus.

Why doesn't mana tithe see play? Especially in this format where so many players tap out and white has little to no others means to interact besides path to exile.

>>48840755
Judging by the fact you're here, I'm guessing you're not a professional.

>>48840590
The ball lightning has done well more experienced players leave land untapped for removal but a lot of newer players fall into the trap.

>>48840644
I added some pillar of the flame 4x but idk if i used it that much

>>48840765
I'll concede that it doesn't work in living end, but that shouldn't count because it's not really a deck anyway. and I don't play as nauseam, but I feel like there is probably a "worst card" they could swap for probe and be better off.

>>48840842

It can be viable as a random surprise card that can catch some people of guard. Though you have to have very good knowledge of your meta or tournament you're going to for the card to have an impact.

However in most cases that Path to Exile can be stronger since if they've already cast a creature at least you can get rid of it as opposed to you drawing the card late and not being able to get rid of the creature they've already cast.

Mind you Mana Tithe can be a perfectly reasonable card to run a few copies of against particular decks just because they do not expect a single W mana to hose what they cast when they tap out. Just have to ask yourself "This can work, but is there something that I can run in this slot that is an absolutely better answer?"

>>48838222
>play it midgame
>make your opponent discard 1 card usually but sometimes 2
>bounce their goyf and get your snapcaster back to your hand

Lot of value

>>48840855
Not one bit, but love a challenge.

>>48840880

Ad Nauseam lists are pretty tight to even accomodate playing Gitaxian Probe. The "worst card" in Ad Nauseam is most likely Serum Visions or Sleight of Hand and even then those have their uses and are better to have over G Probe since Sleight of Hand on turn 1 lets you dig at 2 cards to find that Lotus Bloom(ALWAYS play Sleight of Hand first in Ad Nauseam on turn 1) and Serum Visions lets you see 3 cards in your deck.

>>48840094
Look up eternal command

>>48836152
You do realize FoW is worse card in modern than it is in legacy? The downside of paying 1 life is a lot bigger in modern, the downside of throwing one more card away is a lot bigger in modern and the fact you don't have as fast counter or die combos in format means the play value of FoW is lower.

Example; What happens when FoW deck plays against aggro deck like goblins or merfolk? What I'm saying is FoW deck would probably hose things like scapeshift and fold to decks that run into your face with weenies.

Is kiki-evolution flat out better than kiki-chord now? I feel like you should play anafenza the foremost in both rn anyways

>mfw I bought into the better, more consistent Dredge deck
>mfw Dredge will be hit with bans and the better version will likely suffer a lot less than the shitty Bridge variant

>>48841168
There is no such thing as a "Fow deck." The thing about Legacy is that blue has such a good card pool that every deck with room to spare can and does run the same 16 blue cards to turn on FoW because as it turns out one life and two cards are often worth trading for your opponent's best card.

>>48834325
I suggest you delete your post out of politeness, and either create or join a /casual/ thread.

>>48838095
It doesn't have fuse.

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So I built Naya burn, affinity, and infect

What do I build next

>>48841578
Zoo I guess. Either Bushwacker or Zooicide.

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>>48841578
jund

>>48841571
Holy shit if that card had fuse...
It's basically a 2cmc KCommand, it's versatile and can 2for1.
Unless you cast it on turn 2, they likely won't have any lands in hand, and even if you do cast it turn 2 the discard is random and it can still 2for1. The bounce/raisedead mode is the best mode imo, getting back snap/tasigur and bouncing something is solid.

>>48840938
It doesn't have Fuse, fampai, but it's still an ok 2 mana play.

>>48840967
It's not really a challenge, you'll just find your cards match up really bad against the rest of the format. And you're gonna spend the same amount as a Jund or Jeskai player.

>>48840788
Those are just options I thought of off the top of my head. They wouldn't fix modern, I don't think the format is broken, they would just give slower decks a few more options against the powerful decks. What people who don't play modern don't understand about modern is that it already has force of will in it. It's just red and called lightning bolt. Bolt is good against all the aggro decks and stops you from just dying to elf/become immense but is bad against the control and combo decks, although not dead because it can go upstairs. Force of will is like that in legacy only its good against combo and bad against honest decks.

>>48841578
Brew something instead of being a massive faggot.

>>48841807
Bolt does nothing to stop Scapeshift, Ad Nauseam, Living End, or the new UR Storm lists. There's no one spell in Modern that control decks can use to catch all fast decks.

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>>48841843
Im too casual to brew a good deck and my Card library and general knowledge of archetypes are limited so I'll stick to netdecking.

Thanks for the advice though

>>48841251

>tfw anafenza was your waifu, now you have a reason to play her

>>48841578
esper draw-go

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>>48841859
>Scapeshift, Ad Nauseam, Living End, or the new UR Storm lists.

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>>48826547

Dredge is a casual meme deck

>>48842138
Top meme lad, but decks don't magically become bad. People just don't like it when the hype train slows down. Just look at Abzan. The deck is outright better equipped to deal with Dredge than Jund since it runs Path, but does anyone care?

>>48841949
http://tappedout.net/users/branflakes20/mtg-decks/

Try some of my brews. That's a tidy pile of dank memes right there. Some are even good.

>>48841361
I'm not talking about FoW deck as an archetype you dingus. I'm saying the deck that's playing a FoW is on underhand against aggro type decks, since there is no single must be countered spells. And there is my other point; FoW is again at the weaker end at modern without brainstorm to pitch or draw. I dare to say that in almost all aspects thoughtseize is a better card to prevent modern combos to go out while still being relevant on other matchups.

>>48841341
Yeah, until you realize prized amalgam gets banned and your deck is obsolete.

>people are buying into Dredge

For what reason? You really think WotC will let this deck slide?

>>48840668
Temur traverse isnt that bad either. It needs a lot of tuning though and traverse enables a lot of nice sb options.

>>48842402
Traverse gets around Grafdigger's Cage too.

>>48835634
Legacy is dying

>>48842179
Pte doesn't do jack against dredge. Dredge is still a shitty mu for junk

>>48842989
Path gets rid of an Amalgam for good. Junk does better against Dredge than Jund does is my point.

>>48835532
bro i have the money for tarns, i can build a better deck
but i want to play it so much

>>48843011

>junk:
>path
>anafenza
>rip

Junk does much better.

>>48843127
I mean then do it, man. follow your heart. you weren't going to play on the pro tour anyway, were you?

>>48843011
Path gets rid of 1-2 Amalgams, meanwhile your shit is still getting mown down by the rest of Dredge's horde.

Anger and Kalitas kill the whole crew dead for good, and Kalitas generates zombies to exile even more weenies.

>>48843474
Rest in Peace is pretty good too you know. And Lingering Souls blocks Narcomoebas. Kalitas ain't restricted to Jund either you know.

>>48843253
Junk doesn't run rip; it hoses goyf, finks and lingering.

>>48843536
Kalitas is trash in junk, while synergizing with all the removal in jund.

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>>48843436
n-no

>>48843563
So run Anafenza.

>>48843436
not even with thing in the ice or bedlam?

>>48843474

>tfw declaration in stone could be a viable sideboard option for some decks

whats a deck similar to storm but stronger

>>48844509
legacy storm

>>48844518
ayy lmao

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>>48826562
>>RG Torn
>> Tier 2

Kek

>>48844509
infect?
>wins with spells
>counts to 10
>opponents assblasted

>>48844764
yeah but infect is braindead
to some extent storm is not

>>48844800
infect has a similar problem to twin where brain dead people can win with it bc they just jam every time, but they're much more likely to get blown out. infect is low floor high ceiling.

>>48844885
0 high ceiling stop spouting your nonsense. What else can you do than pump creatures that have infect.

What bugs me about infect is that since blindly vomiting spells is bad play, it's implied you should play a slow attrition game. But if you're doing that, you're just a bad tempo list. So why is Delver so bad when infect is so good?

>>48845191
Infect can win on turn 2-3 consistently
Delver Cannot
Infect has to deal 10
Delver has to deal 20

I'm not trying to be a dink, them's just the breaks. Also, not to give infect players too much credit, but a lot of the time it isn't as simple as "vomiting spells" since you have to pace yourself and not blow your hand until you know it kills. Furthermore, vomiting is bad if, in response to the pumps, your opponent spot removes the creature being targeted.

>>48845238
Removal is why you always leave Vines up.

>>48845238
Delver also has to have more stuff in its lists (Creatures, Removal, Draw, Fixing, ensure synergy between objectives) and all infect needs is creatures and pumps so it's very consistent

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So theoretically, if Pod were to come back, could you swap out Company for Pod in Abzan Company and call it a day, or would you suggest reworking the creature base as well? I'm not sure if you could make a 1:1 switch, so I'd like some opinions.

>>48845257
Yep, of course, that only goes to show that infect isn't necessarily hand vomit, same reason infect packs Apostle's Blessing really

>>48845339
Company doesn't curve properly for Pod, you'd have to make some changes. It's irrelevant though, since the entire reason they printed Evolution was basically to replace Pod.

I'm starting to think that Wizards is trying to sidegrade the entire format rather than reprinting things.

turn 1
birds of paradise
turn 2
coiling oracle
turn 3
eldritch evolution into siege rhino

ayyy

>>48845191
you're not a bad tempo list, though. you're a good false tempo list. the fact that you can kill t2/3 makes your opponent play to not die rather than play to win. if they're holding up removal every turn, they're not advancing their board state. if they're advancing their board state, they're not also holding up removal. delver doesn't get this angle of attack.

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Reprint Alert! Reprint Alert!

>>48845535
why not turn 2 Voice or Finks? They would also be good even without Evolution in hand

>>48845645
I don't give two shits about Conspiracy, but if they are going to use it for Modern reprints they deem to good for Standard them I'm all for it.

>>48845535
Remand

Ayyy

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>>48845645

>cantrip at uncommon

>>48845645
>Higher rarity
>No reason to be on the plane

>>48845647
true

>>48845591
Depends on the match up. If your deck packs removal it shouldn't be hard to hold it up and start creating a board state once you've dealt with their linear wincon.

>>48845691
>No reason to be on the plane

The first Conspiracy had Rout with Elesh Norn on it. This isn't a Standard set, it doesn't play by the same rules.

Is Mono Blue urza tron a good deck
im thinking about making it just cause i like the concept
how good is it?

>>48845761
This

Also Phage was reprinted in this set, so it just goes to show that literally anything can be reprinted.

Now hopefully they took the opportunity to reprint Show and Tell in this set.

>>48845866
That would be a pretty clever reprint for a multiplayer set. Very dangerous to use.

>>48845866
How come show and tell isn't on reserved list?

>>48846040
I assume it wasn't degenerate enough at the time, with everything that Urza's Saga did overshadowing it and a lack of game winning cards to cheat out, so it wasn't expensive enough in the secondary market for it to need to be put on.

>>48845858
It's shit

Would a mono black midrange list work? You've got some really strong creatures that you can play on the curve in black. That plus discard and removal.

Wanna build a Eternal Command deck. What variant would be the best? Bant, Sultai or Temur? Or maybe just stick to UG

>>48846500
why are you in this thread

>>48846476

There's a Black Devotion style deck that rocks a fuckton of Obliterators.

It's slow and subject to crap draws, but it's kind of fun.

The problem is that, even if you cut the Lilianas, the deck is still far from being 'budget'.

>>48846500
Temur probably.

K guys. Let's play a game called "why this person is retarded". We post some stupid shit that we heard someone say and point out why they are wrong. I'll go first.

>Tarmogoyf should be banned

>>48846736
>esper and mardu are tier 1 decks
> rev for 15

>>48846736
>Cruise and Dig Through Time should be unbanned.

>Scooze should be banned if Deathrite Shaman is banned since they practically do the same thing.

>Birthing Pod did nothing wrong

>>48846736
>Modern is a good format

>>48846820
>Scooze should be banned if Deathrite Shaman is banned since they practically do the same thing
Nobody thinks this

>>48846839
To add onto you, here is something a person at me LGS said.


>Modern was a better decision than Extended, because at least in Modern things don't rotate out and you get more cards to work with.

>>48846902
What a beautiful irony. The longer a format has been around, the fewer viable cards there end up being.

>>48846893
Heard it once from a guy who was getting destroyed. He was upset that his graveyard shenanigans were getting disrupted and scooped and left before game three.

>>48846930
Agreed. I would love if Extended came back but it isn't happening. At least in Extended you had something new to work with over time, and new decks with different ideas. With Modern the format hardly ever shakes up, unless there is a banning, or Wizards fucks up in standard and releases some card that gets broken in Modern. Before the Pod and Twin and Amulet bans, they were the only decks you could see. Now after it, you saw nothing but Eldrazi until another ban. Now at the latest SCG Open I think Top 8 was primarily Dredge, Infect and two Jund decks. Modern is shit but yet here I am.

>>48847012
>Now at the latest SCG Open I think Top 8 was primarily Dredge, Infect and two Jund decks.

The top 8 was:
>Dredge
>RG Breach
>Jund
>Infect
>UW Control
>Dredge
>Jund
>Jund

Two Dredge decks is not "primarily Dredge" by any stretch of the imagination.

>>48847089
"Primarily" was referencing all three decks, not just Dredge. Sorry about that anon.

>>48847089
Also, I was wrong, there were three Jund but only one Infect. Could have sworn it was two infect.

>>48847192
Oh, fair enough. Infect's hardly worth including mentioning then though, since it only one Infect deck made it.

>>48847089
Seriously, ban Abrupt decay. It makes blue even worse in modern and pushes any midrange deck aiming to be competitive, directly into gbx. Then everyone just goes with jund

Daily reminder to help me with my brew
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/14-08-16-bant-tempo/

RUG Eternal Command would be funny. You could vial in a Huntmaster and instantly flip him because you never cast him last turn.

>>48847274
This is more midrange than tempo honestly. Where are the 4 Goyfs? Where are the Geists? Where are the Heirarchs and the Cliques? This honestly looks like a blend of midrange and control. There's nothing tempo about it besides the choice of counterspells.

>>48847240
What nonland permanent is Blue playing that it cares about? I assume you're meaning control variants, even though the mana curves for those decks stacks out at 4 or so. While everything else is made up of cantrips, and counters. The only thing I can think of is Delver, and if that's the case than we should ban Lightning Bolt because it sets the standard for creatures of "Can it survive Bolt?"

>>48847364
ignore that, just leave tips

>>48847395
*tips fedora*

>>48847274
You have quite a bit of ramp and high costing spells to be declared a Tempo deck. This is more midrange rather than tempo. I guess cutting out the walkers and ramp spells, possibly Jace, and replacing them with Goyf, Geist, Heirarch, and Clique. But if you wanna stay in Midrange than don't do that.

>>48847437
lets say i want to stay in midrange
what do i add?

>>48847549
If you're fond of Elspeth, play her better version of Elspeth, Knight Errant. It is a much better game ender, it cane protect itself, and give your Thragtusk flying and +3/+3. Tamiyo is kind of a toss up, I don't think she adds too much to a deck in Midrange, and same for Kitchen Finks. You can take those out and free up 4 slots, with that you can add 3x Cryptic Command. And the final slot to something like Wall of Omens or Resto. For the Farseek, I think you're better off adding Heirarch, exalted is great, gives you color fixing faster, and a body. I'm also just a guy in a forum so take what i say with a grain of salt.

>>48847696
>hierarch
in the last thread i mentioned i want to keep it under 1000 dollars, but i agree with everything else you say
exceot tamiyo
idk she just feels good
if an opponent is going to attack with a snapcaster or something
he gives me a card
if he wont
he loses 2 damage

>>48846820
Birthing Pod was great and it encouraged fun strategies.

>>48847696
also im really lacking in 4 slot so im using tamiyo for that

>>48847781
Like winning the game really easily.

>>48847781
It's the same strategy abzan coco employs.

>>48847767
I didn't see the other thread so I didn't know the budget limit. In that case, I still say the Kitchen Finks come out and replaced with Cryptic Command, and Farseek can stay in. Although I am not too big a fan of Farseek, it does help thin your deck.

>>48847781
Birthing Pod also encouraged long, grindy games with little opponent interaction. If I wanted to play a single player grind game, I'd play Tony Hawk, not Birthing Pod.

>>48847848
is it bad that im not running playsets of anything, i cant decide what to ditch?

>>48846736
>I don't think enabling free pikers turn one is sufficient reason to ban eye of ugin
[/spoiler]It was me. I still think this. Fight me.

>>48847907
Playset are only dictated by what you most likely wanna find as often as you can. Midrange, to me kind of feels like a toolbox deck. It has answers to everything, you don't have a straight out plan, you don't go out to play beat down right away, you're also not sitting and countering everything. Midrange is jack of all trades and answers to everything. You wanna last the beginning, with cheap counters, and win in the end with bigger creatures than your opponents. I find myself not really playset much in Midrange decks. The best part though about that is your sideboard can have a whole control package or aggro package in it, and you can practically change your deck between games.

>>48846736
>Splinter Twin should not have been banned.

>>48847972
i love that idea but i want to get the mainboard to be good first

>>48847907
Ditch an Alchemist's Refuge for the WG scarland or something. 4x Spell Snare is a bad idea. Cut it down a bit. More Geist of Saint Traft, maybe make it a 2-of or something. Balance your curve. You have a ton of one-drops, a large amount of two-drops, and only three 3-drops (all of which are gold). I'd honestly cut Sphinx's Rev

>>48847838
But better.

>>48847997
>Duel EDH should be played more than modern cause its more competetive

>If you make Legacy Eldrazi without cavern of souls and city of traitors it can be as cheap as a modern deck
>>48848022
I aleready changed the spell snares for mana leaks, what do i add to balance the curve?

>>48847997
It shouldn't have.

>>48848022
What do i add in the 3 mana slot?
Rhox War Monk seems cool?

>>48848011
After looking at your deck again, and someone can argue with me on this, but I think Jace should be cut out. Yes, his planeswalker side is good, but I think to make him flip as soon as possible you need cheap spells and cantrips, something your deck isn't doing all that well. If you got rid of him, I think you could add another Snapcaster, and one more Geist. Wall of Omens sticks out at me, but I also know you probably added him for draw and body, so I think he can stay. Explore, I think can be cut for something like Geist, Resto, or additional Walls.


And as someone else said, Alchemist Refuge can be removed for another source of GW land, like Horizon Canopy for the draw effect, or Razorverge Thicket.


The idea of Explore is something to fiddle with and playtest, see how it feels, although I do think Jace can be removed for something else.

>>48848158
dude he is easly flipped turn 3
fetches
serum visions
counters
paths
all are good to flip him
but i also can see why i would want to change him, but idk which other 2 drop to use
i really want the curve to be nice

>>48848127
For the Three mana slot, you have access to Geist, Clique, and I was always a fun of Bant Charm for utility

>>48848127
Extra copies of Geist. Cut Explore. Maybe add a copy of Brimaz? Clique needs to be in there.

>>48848197
Two drops in the colors are unfortunately expensive and can push you over the budget. Snapcaster is one, giving you access to your counters and Paths again, Scavenging Ooze if you can't afford Goyf which is okay.

>>48848249
explore is 10/10
ill add geists cause im a jew
>>48848270
scooze it is
snap isnt a 2 drop esssentially, cause you play it later

>>48848249
Second. Clique needs a spot in here. He causes disruption, he is can be flashed, evasion, and can be taken to the red zone. Even at his worst, he is disruption and a blocking body for something like Delver

>>48848295
>clique
>he
Clique is "they" or maybe "it"

>>48848295
>>48848249
>>48848231
ok im adding clique and removing some geists

>>48848323
>>>>>>>>REMOVING GEISTS
OH NO LAD

>>48848333
inb4 add 20 cliques and 20 geists
they are fighting for 3 drop slot

>>48848323
After everything i think you should have a well enough deck go playtest online or in paper, or sit and playtest on your own on tappedout and see how it feels.

>>48848341
>Geist vs Clique
>Who is the better modern three drop

>>48848348
ill tell you the results later, if you have any other advice just be sure to leave, ill keep reading everything here

are there any sorceries or instants i might be missing out on?

>>48845761

>reprints another format's staples
>"Durr hurr it doesn't play by the same rules"

Totally unjustified bullshit.

>>48846589
Who said anything about budget? And what do you mean by bad draws.

>>48847240
Jund runs like 2 ADs MB and will always be the best midrange deck in modern.

>>48832385
Draw deck, play lab maniac, hold up 3 Pact of Negation and stop them from casting ad naus on their turn or Slaughter Pact. On upkeep cast angels grace and then win on draw step.

>>48848820
Also I need to play Phyrexian Unlife too

Is ulcerate playable or nah.

>>48848519
Maybe you need to stop being a spoiled little bitch. You need to be 18 to post here

>>48848901
You will hurt yourself less from splashing red to get Lightning Bolts than you will playing that card.

>>48848901
it would be playable in a format without dismember, but for 1 life, you get an extra -2/-2. so no, I guess.

Finished my first game with the bant deck
Played against Grixis Delver, went 2-0
1st game went like this
i play my scooze
he plays tasigur
i play wall of omens
he attacks(i let it through)
i buff everything with gavony township
he plays delver
i pass
delver flips, attacks with him
i play resto angel

2nd game was a grind cause of engineered explosives
but i drew thragtusk in the end, and had some counters

>>48848991
Keep us updated my good man

>>48849018
deck seems awesome, although im convinced there are some more green spells i could use
are there any that are viable
Oh and what do you think about bant charm?

>>48848519
It's called "Serum Visions". Would it have calmed your tits if it had someone drinking a potion with some flavortext from Marchesa saying she made it herself?

>>48848648
This guy hasn't heard of mardu

>>48849182
>Modern Mardu Midrange
>good
Jund is undeniably the best midrange deck in modern.

>>48849046
good shit, nice to see its going well.
Qasali Pridemage is good two drop and artifact removal.
Bant Charm I'm biased towards because it gives me options, but if you play Clique you already get one of those options and the last one can be used with Pridemage or any other artifact removal.
If you find yourself against heavy control or hand disruption decks, Loxodon Suiter is a great card.
Also so is Voice of Resurgence, mixed with Resto you get plenty more value.

>>48849320
Loxodon Smiter *

>have 22k points rolled into my puca account
>no one sends any cards because I can't give bonuses
>decide to upgrade and get all my points spent just to be done with it forever
>people still don't send cards with a 20% bonus
Life is fucking suffering

>>48849798
>using pucatrade
Enjoy getting ripped off

>>48849798

You brought it on yourself anon. Never trust jews or pyramid schemes.

lost one round to grixis control and then he dced in the second one
creeping tar pit was a problem
he had answer for everything
overall happy with the match up

do i need some tutor in the deck
2 of chord?

>>48849822
>>48849840
Pucatrade used to be so good. People were sending staples at market value within 2 days of me putting it on my list. Now, no one sends cards.
I don't know what happened in the few months that I didn't use it, bit everything changed

>>48850068
how does it feel you americucks will never have glorious magiccardmarket

>>48850328
go back to /pol/ I don't give a fuck about my country, I just want to talk about card games.

>>48847997
>Splinter Twin banned because WotC promised it will increase diversity in the format
>it doesn't

Twin dindu nothing wrong. It was just one of the many tier 1 gatekeeper decks.

>>48849978
Tar Pit > Colonnade = Shambling Vents > Everything else

Tar Pit even gets run in Legacy BUG lists it's that good.

>>48851508
i just couldnt do anything
i had a 1-5 wall which didnt do nothing

>>48849219
I'm pretty sure it's a fairly even shitshow between Jund, Junk, and Mardu.

>>48851581
In certain you're wrong

>>48851581
Mardu is awful. It is fun though and has access to a lot of cool stuff, but lel no goyf.

>>48851581
Jund is T1, Junk is T2, and Mardu is tierless. These assignments have reasons.

>>48851648
I mean if the decks are played off against each other. Each one likely has its ups and downs. Mardu is heavy in removal so would be better against Affinity, Merfolk, Zoo, and Infect. Abzan is better against combo because it has some good removal with Decay for faggots trying to play Storm, or Teeg for Tron. Jund just has a generally good matchup against most things.

>>48851669
Soulfire Grand Master is nothing to scoff at.
>Hurr it dies to removal

>>48851565
a good sideboard card against manlands is pithing needle bc it also has utility against basically every other deck. I don't think you need engineered explosives since gw is already the best color at blowing shit up, so that could be a substitution.

>>48851781
If you're spending your gas draws dealing with your opponent's land draws, you're losing.

>>48851733
I don't know many decks that care about a resolved soulfire
Seems like a shit choice when you run Terminate and path

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>>48851581
Yes, of course it's fairly even. That's why there was a Jund deck, a Junk deck and a Mardu deck all in the top 8 of the last Modern Open rather than just three Jund decks, right?

>>48851832
It basically has Tasigur's ability but quite often better. At 5 land I can hit you with the same Bolt every turn and gain 3 life off it. That's pretty backbreaking. Mardu's main problem is that it lacks a fast clock like Goyf. Angler is questionable if you're running Bob.

>>48851847
>If no one's playing it, it can't be good
This incestuous attitude is what makes formats stagnate. The three most played and thus essentially the most powerful spells in Modern are Bolt, Thoughtseize, and Path. Mardu runs all three.

>>48851832
It's mostly for the rebound i think, not so much the drain.