Numenera Thoughts

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Never interested me much. From what I read on /tg/ I feel it has a certain aura of blandness to it that I can't get past. It's similar to what I experience with Eberron. A basic Idea with potential that is executed in the most basic boring way possible.

I honestly fucking hate post-apoc and weirdo high concept settings, so a system has to be pretty interesting to get me to play it. Numenera is NOT one of those systems.

If you're interested in those settings though there's plenty to like about it.

>>48822375
The setting seemed kinda cool, although not really amazing. I might do something similar one day, but I would use a different system.

>>48822375

The high concept of the setting is great but Cook fucks it up because he has no creativity. He turns a great idea into a bland as fuck generic fantasy setting where someone did a Search+Replace for "magic" with "numenera". Worse still, the writing oozes this self-congratulating arrogance, like he thinks he's the first person to ever think of this kind of setting and he has to try to make your tiny mind comprehend his brilliance.

Read the book to get the high concept and a few chunks of good material to steal, then throw it away and make your own setting. The system is generic and not special, though apparently it has balance issues. To be perfectly honest you'd be better off either using a generic system or houseruling D&D/PF.

>>48822375
It's dull as shit. There are thousands of plothooks that are completely unrelated to each other and ultimately boring. Monte Cook's usual bullshit. There's no compelling reason to play the world. It's just wild whacky magic random whoo!

>>48823907
>There are thousands of plothooks that are completely unrelated to each other and ultimately boring. Monte Cook's usual bullshit.

That was honestly never a problem with me. It's not like you have to include any of them in your game. My problem with Numenera structurally is that it's supposed to be a mysterious world and, even with Cook's promise they won't map and flesh out every single bit of it, you still find yourself corralled to these specific they won't ever populate with anything in official capacity. Basically, you have to stick to those or there's a chance official supplemental book might fuck up whatever you establish out there in the world.

>>48822375
It's the best. /tg/ as a whole has a varied opinion, with half of the people hating not actually reading the book and just hating on Monte Cooke. Honestly, the game got better after Bruce Cordell got involved, so I recomend checking out the Cypher Core book. But Numenera has some really good stuff in it. People who are complaining that nothing is tied together, either want some kind of OWD level metaplot in their games, or are just parroting something they heard. Nothing is tied together because the countries are separated by wastes and the author wants the GM to have room to write in his story.

Cypher is my favorite system to run, and I ran one of my top five games in Numenera.

>>48824462
No, I don't have to include them. But they're all boring. There's nothing greater there. At least if some are interlinked there is the possibility of some sort of wide ranging consequences.

When a setting's main selling point is its plot hooks, well, that just doesn't seem good enough.

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>>48823781
>Read the book to get the high concept and a few chunks of good material to steal, then throw it away and make your own setting.

Sadly that sounds very familiar.

>>48824514
That's not how you play all RPGs?

System apologist here:

Its not very good.

Its okay for what it is, but Numenera is not good at:
- Hex crawl play
- week by week story play
- anything but short episodic adventures that take place in a different area each week play

Seriously the world is horrible and the world building is crazy but nothing fits together. I got banned from the cypher system Facebook page for pointing out that the world building makes zero sense. lmao they told me i was breaking wheatons law

>>48824570

>criticising something is being a dick

Hugboxes were a mistake

>>48824499

the owd was modular in nature

thats why their campaign supplements came with a dozen ways to handle each plot part

and you never, ever needed to follow it.

also, OWD had....you know, a great setting that was fleshed out. vampires and their history were interesting. people still play OWD.

These threads pop up with almost exactly the same OP pretty regularly. It's almost like viral marketing.

>>48824570
See, the thing is, I look at the system and all I see is d20. Monte Cook spent however much money and time to just make fucking d20 again. I mean, obviously it's not exactly the same system, but it just...feels the same. All its settings are all about "wonder" and "strangeness" and "infinite possibility", and then in actuality it's all class based, wait for the sourcebook that has the abilities you want to come out type shit, but with "EIGHT NEW CLASSES, FIFTY NEW FEATS, TWO HUNDRED NEW SPELLS" replaced with "EIGHT NEW FOCUSES, FIFTY NEW ABILITIES, TWO HUNDRED NEW CYPHERS"

>>48822375
Sorry, i forgot to actually answer your question when typing >>48824692 . To answer your question, one of the reasons I feel like cypher is just d20 again is that it does the thing it was designed to do well enough, and sucks ass at basically everything else, no matter how desperately it's creations might wish it was a generic system. The game is D&D. Straight up. But the setting means that it's D&D where your players don't know anything about anything. They can't fall back on decades of stereotype and cliche. It's D&D, but minus "Oh, yeah, this guy is a dwarf. So his home city looked like Ironforge, he drinks and swings axes, he talks in a scottish accent, and his name is something like Bronzebeard Ironfist". If that sounds cool, then yeah, play it.

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>>48824727
>They can't fall back on decades of stereotype and cliche. It's D&D, but minus "Oh, yeah, this guy is a dwarf. So his home city looked like Ironforge, he drinks and swings axes, he talks in a scottish accent, and his name is something like Bronzebeard Ironfist". If that sounds cool, then yeah, play it.

For a lot of people that's exactly what they want. Also, Numenera is pretty much "anything goes" kind of deal because you can hand-wave it away with, well, Numenera.

>>48824751
Oh, yeah, there's no thing wrong with that. I've used it for "D&D but without the generic fantasy expectation buildup" a few times, and it's fun for that for sure. But it isn't really anything MORE than that, sadly.

>>48824570
I thought you were apologist....

Anyway did they ever explain with the rationale was for the x3 difficulty

>>48824614
I unironically adore world of darkness,

Yeah I know, but it was a cool setting and a easy to learn system.

>>48822375
Is Numenera fiction any good?

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Is anyone else bothered by the ineptness of the social structures? Like, the black hat Catholic stereotypes, the feudal mechanisms when the relics are probably more of a potent economic factor than the land, the nation-state scale political systems over vast areas in a premodern setting, and so on?

I love the concept of the game; it sort of gives me a Phantasy Star vibe. I want to play it at some point. But I'm going to do a lot of social reengineering.

>>48824979
Eh, it doesn't bother me, but only because various dungeons and dragons settings have the same problem so I'm used to it. Magic items are worth more than land, evil religious stereotypes, etc.

Isn't Numenera that thing Aragorn was king of?

>>48825377
You're thinking of Numenor. Though it is very similar in both name and content to a random chunk of the pathfinder setting, Numeria.

>>48824692
>EIGHT NEW FOCUSES, FIFTY NEW ABILITIES, TWO HUNDRED NEW CYPHERS

I can't believe how accurate this is. I wanted very much for Numenera to be all wondrous and mysterious, but it's just D&D 3.5 refluffed with magitech terms. The world is boring as shit generic fantasy with "numenera" replacing magic items and "psionic overlord" replacing evil wizard-king.

>>48822375
It is a great setting with thousands of ideas for adventures. A very plastic, interesting world that skillfull GM can easily bend to his needs. Literally something like plansecape but not so alien.

>>48822983
>>48823781
>>48823907
>>48824507
>>48824570
>>48824692
You all people seem like braindead zombies with no imagination. Probably never played a real game without computer proxy. Hang yourselves fast.

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>>48822375
Torment is pretty good but i've noticed even the system is kinda boring in comparison the whole premise

>>48826641

You probably think No Man's Sky is good

Good idea, poor execution, bizarre design choices.

>>48826808
Nope, it leaves no place for imagination.

I actually like the Cypher system but hate Numenara's fluff.

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>>48826641

What exactly is Numenera, in a nutshell?

Or, if you were to sell it to me as someone who has only really played D&D (and MTG, etc.), what would you say?

Into the Odd captures their whole aesthetic much better. and is better designed for the one-shot play this entire system lives on.

idk. MCG seems to emphasize the con-style, no consequences one-shot structure with all of their games.

>>48828917
The biggest part of the game is that everything magic is actually technological, because it's all poorly understood and the game takes place in the ultra future. So like you could have a tribesman who can fly and wreathe himself in fire who everybody calls magic mike. But magic mike isn't actually magic he just has bioaugmented sweat glands that produce flamable sweat and a pair of repulsors installed in his shins by some ancient misunderstood machine
Other shit:
Humanity has risen and fallen several times
Its 1 billion years in the future
Shitload of empty spaces intended for the gm to fill in
What is already filled in is kind of boring.

Basically it's very neat conceptually and the system isn't completely pants shitting retarded, it even allows for some very neat characters if you feel like going against the molds they suggest for you. But in execution it falls very short and is basically "generic fantasy BUT ITS TOTALLY NOT GUYS EVERYTHING IS SCIENCE generic fantasy"

If you want to touch it basically take the setting, the class system, some of the creatures, and wrap it all up in your own shit and disregard almost everything canon. It has an absurd amount of potential that it realizes absolutely none of.

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>>48822375

I appreciate what its trying to do.

But its clear Monty did not do enough drugs, we have a bland sci fi fantasy world that tries desperatly to be Dune or tap into that wonderful Philippe Druillet\Moebius era.

>>48829200
>But its clear Monty did not do enough drugs

this. absolutely this.

>>48829098
Interesting. I've copped the Oddities from there as random trinkets / gifts for my D&D campaign, but that's been my only exposure to it.

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>>48829200

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>>48829422

>>48829422
>>48829645
Druillet, he is easy to recognize.

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>>48829645

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>>48829766

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>>48829928

>>48824897
When you say fiction... If you mean fluff for getting ideas, yes. If you mean stories by Monte or Sandra, Monte's are not well written (in the sense of lazy prose) and Sandra is an erotic fiction author who also writes fantasy. So...

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>>48830006

>>48829766
>>48829928
>>48830006
>>48830039
This already looks better than anything in Numenera.

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>>48830039

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>>48830090

>>48822375
Looked at the setting. Reminded me of Myst. Not bad but not über-awesome either. Looked at the rules. Moved on.

>>48830081
Which is why we play The Strange.

>>48823781
>Worse still, the writing oozes this self-congratulating arrogance, like he thinks he's the first person to ever think of this kind of setting and he has to try to make your tiny mind comprehend his brilliance.
citation needed

>>48830142
Not that guy, but the whole book. I'm the one saying the game is great, and this is an undeniable fact. Same thing as John Wick or Luke Crane's writing, though slightly less overt, as Monte doesn't speak in second or first person much.

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>>48830109

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>>48830191

>>48826641
thank you for Correcting The Record

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>>48830227

>>48830185
as an aspiring rpg author i need to know more to understand which pitfalls to avoid

The GM intervention mechanic is balls.

For those of you unaware: The GM can at any point decide "Sorry you fail this action!" and he gives you 2XP out of it except you need to give one of the XP to an ally.

Cause nothing gets me excited for a game than something that literally takes away all agency I have as a player for a meager reward!

For comparison sake: 7th Sea 2nd Edition has a "I fail and get a hero point" mechanic but here's the thing. That's something the player decides. The player can opt to instantly fail an action and get a Hero Point out of it. The player still has agency in that action and due to the way risks and opportunities work in that game the player is usually aware of what the consequences of deciding to fail are.

So... somehow. I don't fucking know how. But somehow: John Wick was less of a dick in his own game than Monte Cooke was in his.

[spoilers]Of course that doesn't change 7th Sea's morality mechanics being ass but that's a different topic altogether.[/spoiler]

>>48830336

Basically avoid words like "redefine" or giving new phrases to common RPG mechanics.

As long as you aren't doing shit like: "Players can make the game about their own personal stories by invoking the right of self introspection. Wherein the GM, away from the table, speaks to the player and performs a one on one session with him to explore his character's past and gain further insight into his epic narrative" then you should be fine.

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>>48830276

>>48822983
>Numenera
>Eberron
>Bland

Man, you've got the right to your own opinion, but I just don't see how you arrive there.

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>>48830878

>>48830354
It's literally just Fate Points renamed so all the 3aboos don't jump down his throat for "disgusting narrative bullshit"
And one of the most popular house/alternate rules splits exp onto hard/soft exp; one for short term benefits and one for character upgrading.

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>>48831161

>>48829209
Thising your this.
If I had to come up with the same goals and the same setting, I'd end up doing it completely different.

>>48830142
I can't cite a feeling, anon

>>48832237
Can I borrow one?

My problems with Numenera can be boiled down to three things:
1) Cypher limits make Absolutely No Fucking Sense and the sidebar doesn't make that better
2) There are a few builds that are basically unkillable by anything short of a wipe-monster due to the retarded armor rules.
3) By about Tier 3 you have to make everything difficulty 7-9 to even begin to challenge the PCs.

It's a nice game for a pick-up or a short campaign but it falls apart when you actually play the fucking thing.

>>48831148
I have no idea what he's talking about in Eberron, cuz that shit's fucking radical. But whenever people are confused over why Numenera seems bland, I like to point them towards the equipment section.

In the far flung future of earth, where civilizations have risen and fallen countless times, where technology has become indistinguishable from magic, you'd expect some pretty crazy shit, right? Hard light armor. Nano blades. Maybe possibly a firearm of some sort.

But there's none of that. It's the same equipment list from any number of generic fantasy RPGs copy-pasted with barely any innovation. Broadswords and crossbows and chainmail. The only unique thing about any equipment is that it might be made out of funky shit like...plastic. Woohoo. It doesn't even do anything mechanically, which begs the question of why it's there and featured so prominently.

>inb4 That's not the whole game WAAAH!

No, it's not. I'll be the first to admit that. But it speaks volumes about the effort that went into the rest of the setting when the writers couldn't think of anything more unique than a carbon fiber claymore.

>>48831148
You know how a flashy asia MMO can be bland? Or hearing a joke that is good but you saw the pointe from a mile, so you only give a polite laugh. It's kinda that way.

>>48835887
I just brought Eberron up because I felt in a similar way about it and remembered at that moment.
The seed is there somewhere, but I feel it fails to work out in the execution.

You could probably make the game more playable by moving it to 5E D&D. It's the same exact bounded accuracy. I mean the anemic 5E skill system is better than trying to persuade your GM that your skill can indeed be used here or take one vague as fuck skill that can be shoved into everything.

>>48830354
It might've been changed between Numera and Cypher book, but Cypher more of suggests intrusions as being added problems, not necessarily an insta-fail. And players always have the chance (unless they take that "Doomed" descriptor or whatever) to spend 1xp to completely shut down the intrusion.

While I'm not completely behind the mechanic, it's definitely not quite as bad as you described.

>>48830142

I'm all about this game and I wholly agree. It's written condescendingly as fuck.

>>48830123
I'd like to see more discussion on the Strange. I think the translation idea is neat, kind of like planes-shifting in D&D, but can't wrap my head around how it would actually work in play.

I figured if I ever get around to running the Strange for my group, it will all be in the 'real' world, and will basically be X-files seasons 1-3.

>>48826641
Just go home, Monte. Nobody likes your games anymore.

You can say you were indirectly responsible for Planescape Torment. It's not a traditional game, but hey, it's pretty fucking awesome. That's a good note to end your career on.

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>>48838512

I don't get The Strange. Like, what is the concept? I tried reading about it and it's like...there's parallel worlds based on literature, and the Fermi Paradox is talked about, and I have no idea what it all adds up to.

>>48824668
Ah, the Internet Hate Machine at its most meta. You were missed.

After playing it a bit I'd largely support what OPs heard. The setting is interesting and rife with opportunity but the rules, designed to be simple so as to not convolute storytelling, are often either too thin to facilitate exciting gameplay or too sparse or vague to be made sense of when it counts.

This game could be good with a stronger rule set, but it often felt like I was being read a story rather than playing one. Part of the appeal of role playing games is working within clear capacities and limitations, which this game often does not have.

>>48838893
Broadly speaking, it's just a parallel worlds jumping game, but makes sure all the parallel worlds are interesting (all "Evil Nazi Clowns run the government" and no "The traffic lights are slightly different colors and there are different presidents on the money") by making them all broad fictional locations instead of branching timelines or whatever.

I actually really like the system. It makes running multiple games pretty easy and the rules are generic yet also distinct making a cypher game different from any other game. If anyone is interested I got three games that need a few fill spots

I'm currently in a Numenera campaing and yeah, it hasn't been fun.
I don't know if it's the GMs fault but the world is just so strange that it manages to loop around to being boring. Encounter after encounter we see strange things but we just shrug and say "eh, that's numenera for ya."
What is worst about the game is the mechanics. For me there really isn't a "sense" of progression. XP and leveling is internal to the game what with intrusions and all, but I don't really feel like I am getting stronger. More strange stuff is happening around me, sure, but I am still sacrificing HP to do shit like I did few tiers ago except now I can do it for longer. Fucking yay.

>>48838893
It's stargate, but when you go to a place, you become something that should be there, and the places you can go are truly infinite. Oz is written up, Superhero land is written up, the main transition is into an MMO.

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You want a game that takes place in the far flung future after civilizations have risen and fallen and there's "magic" but it's also just pseudo-technology and there's a bunch of wierd shit but it doesn't have an up-its-own-ass tone about everything and has character archetypes more complicated and interesting than "fighter but not, rogue but not, wizard but not"?

Try Gamma World. Partial to 7th Edition myself but really any edition is probably better than this game.

>>48830022
>erotic fiction author who also writes fantasy
i guess i'll gotta check it out
if nothing else, i'll get a good fap

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Isn't Cypher the game where guns are better in melee than melee weapons?

from what I've gathered skimming through rules and setting, it reminded me strongly of older TV series, where each episode was a new town, a new adventure, maybe even a new sidekick or a whole cast barring lead character(s), and two-three episodes linked into a story was a real big deal, like for season's ends and stuff like that.

numenera seems made for it.

if I ran Numenera, I'd run it like Hercules the Legendary Journeys IN FAR FUTURE!
i'd ditch cypher limits though and just inform my players that they lose their cyphers between game and get a random one-two instead. justify it by them losing, using or breaking them between "episodes" and finding replacements. same ends, more sensible means.

I agree though, this game needs a serious magic item supplement. current ones are bad. even from description what cyphers are I expected something mindblowing. instead it was "oh, it's an antidote. or a retractable blade." seriously?

if Numenera is as bad as you guys say, what other "ancient high-tech seems like magic" setting there are?

>>48822375
>I am wondering how TG feels about Numenera. From what I've read the setting is fantastic

Then we must not have read the same book.

>>48840679
No, sadly you won't, unless you get off to immaculate conceptions caused by frogs.

>>48842142
I like it, but Tekumel, Gamma World, Basic D&D, Skyrealms of Jorune, Star Wars.

>>48830239
Sorry I don't get references to u.s. politics, if it was a pun then explain
>>48838721 I have never endorsed Monte cook much, but Numenera is like a gigantic middle finger in the face of all boring generic fantasy worlds. It beautifully merges postapo sci-fi and fantasy into one blob of mixed imaginations. Also pruning the mechanical parts of all unnecessary dnd bullshit leaves place for dramatic stories built by gm and players together. One needs a really creative mind filled with ideas to be able to be gm a Numenera sessions, and requirements for players are not low either. It is very hard to run a campaign but once you do whole playgroup is surfing the tides of vast psy-ocean of freakish idea's.

>>48832237
And you certainly can't stop it.

OOGA CHAKA
OOGA CHAKA
OOGA OOGA OOGA CHAKA

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>>48837707
It wasn't changed, it's just fun to spread misinformation.

>>48822983
I agree, the setting is absolutely bland. It has two good splat books that have really great ideas and story to steal, but they're organized extremely poorly due to a bad layout editor/who knows why.

The system is very high quality though, it steals a lot of familiar mechanics from a half-dozen games and uses them together quite well with a few new things.

Before I read about it, I never thought that there could be a game with a death spiral that was actually good, much less fantastic.

Long-time (relatively) GM of Numenera here. I'm at work so I can't answer lightning fast, but I'd be happy to give first hand opinions and answers as I can.

First I wanna say that a lot of people saying the setting is pretty bare are right. They give a lot of factions, and locations, and bizarre things, but there isn't much more. It's often "here is a strange thing." "This is a thing that happens here." The anon who said they have plot hooks that go nowhere is pretty correct. On that note, I feel it gives me, as a GM, freedom and reference to create other things. My players have a moving home base that's basically a giant beetle with a shell that's a living space, decked out with organic tech accommodations. They've explored a base on the sun and been inside a creature with a pocket dimension in its head. It requires a GM willing to use the book as a guide rather than a hard setting. I think they've only visited a few of the major cities in the book. As for factions, they're so modular they work no matter what (though admittedly they're pretty generic).

From a mechanical standpoint, I think the game is fairly solid. Everything is rolled by the players against a static DC for the challenge (for the most part). This means if a monster is level 4, players have to roll a 12 to hit or to avoid the monster. Some might have a higher level when defending, or more armor to reduce damage (which is a set number based on weapon+modifiers), and it'll have 12 health.
From a player standpoint, the only thing my players have ever complained about is the rigidity of character creation. The mad-libs style system means you're pretty locked into what you pick. You get a descriptor like Smart or Quick, that gives you some bonuses and hindrances, a Type (which is basically fighter, theif, mage) giving you your generic class features, and your Focus, which is your special snowflake powers (controlling lightning, talking to animals) which give you a big, unique ability every level.

>>48843722
I've only had a small handful of people even want to make custom characters, most aren't interested enough in RPG's to pick something other than what locks them in.

>>48843349
Huh. What makes Numenera death spiral good?

>>48843349
>>48844643
Yes, please elaborate on the death spiral! If a rules system does something different and does it well, it ought to be shared.

This is actually one of my all time favorite games to run. But as a GM you're expected to do your own world building with your chosen pocket of the setting. I like to world build but I also like having a ton of ready made resources for my players. So Cypher setting are kind of ideal for that. They're also rules light (compared to DnD) so it's less prep time between sessions and easier for players new to the hobby.

>>48822375
Okay system, staggeringly underwhelming setting. I was expecting something like Thundarr the Barbarian by way of Moebius, and instead we got...D&D with lasers. So much of the setting is murky and undetailed (and not in the good way), and what IS detailed is either bland or confusing.

>>48844643
>>48844669

Not that guy, but your "do cool things" points and your "stay alive" points are the same pool, which is the death spiral.

I dunno what he likes so much about it, since it means fights get more boring the longer they go on, until everyone's basic-attacking each other to try and finish them off.

>>48824692
>All its settings are all about "wonder" and "strangeness" and "infinite possibility"


And instead what we get is "early medieval Europe, but they have plastic bags and maybe a laser arm sometimes"

>>48835514
>Cypher limits make Absolutely No Fucking Sense and the sidebar doesn't make that better

1. How did these ancient hi-tech civilizations manage to function if bringing together more than three of their gizmos together in close proximity causes them to malfunction?

2. How big of a chode is Monte Cooke for thinking that "one use magic items" is somehow a revolutionary new concept that has never been seen in tabletop gaming?

>>48830399
I vomited just reading that. Please tell me there's no RPG that actually says anything like this. Please tell me there's still hope.

>>48831602
Tertiary this. Game designers need to understand that drugs are a necessary part of the creative process.

>>48848088
>malfunction

I'd call "having a decent chance of exploding and fucking killing you" more than a goddamn malfunction.

>>48847852
Can we do it better? The concept has promise but yeah, the execution is super bland.

How does /tg/ do noblebright fantasy 1 billion years in the future?

>>48848205

You uh... might wanna read up on this game Monte is making called Invisible Sun.

Lemme give some choice bits of fluff the Kickstarter page gives:

>"There are rich roleplaying opportunities that exist away from the game table. Invisible Sun encourages players to take (and resolve) actions in Development Mode, alone or as a group. If it doesn’t fit into the flow of the ongoing narrative, that’s okay. Like a novel or film, these can be flashbacks as well as side-scenes (or entire side-stories). This offers all manner of new opportunities. Play doesn’t have to stop when the session is over and everyone leaves the table. Players can keep the game going—individually or in groups—by creating side-stories that describe high level actions that their characters take. Or, they can even create a flashback side-scene that reveals actions their character has already taken. A GM can create a side-scene away from the table for one or two players to deal with a situation that only concerns them, played between regular sessions.

>This also means that even if they can’t make it to the regular session, players can still move their character’s story forward. A side-scene might cover what Shanna’s character does while she’s absent from the regular session. Maybe, if the group can’t meet as often as they’d like, the game is played largely through side-scenes, with major developments occurring when the group finally finds a time to gather.

>Development Mode can involve all the players, some of the players, or just one player and the GM. It’s very casual, and can be played at a coffee shop or on a stroll through the park. The GM resolves the action(s) through the turn of a turn of a card from the Sooth Deck, one of the components included in the game. There’s even a way to handle these sorts of scenes without the GM present at all."

>>48848282

Honestly? Just run Gamma World.

The 7th E Gamma World is plenty "noble bright" mostly cause the whole thing is just too silly to try and grimdark. Sure there's horrible mutants and shit but it's hard to take that super serial when you're a freaking swarm of psychic bugs.

>>48848238
It's been a good minute since I read the rulebook, and I couldn't remember if they exploded or just stopped working. I'm glad it's the former, since it makes the idea even more ridiculous.

>>48848343
I mean, nothing against Gamma World, but there is a difference between "Noblebright" and "Played for laughs."

I'm thinking like high fantasy with nanites and cranial shunts. Ill understood and jealously guarded ancient tech standing in for magic. Post-post-apocalyptic x8.

>>48848394
You roll on a table, because of course you do.

>>48843054
No, Numenera is less a middle finger to and more of an exemplar of boring generic fantasy worlds.

>>48848412
Get mildly to moderately intoxicated on your drug of choice and look at a bunch of Moebius drawings while Naussica of the Valley of the Wind and/or Castle in the Sky plays in the background. And don't forget the prog rock.

>>48848546
I've heard worse ideas.

>>48848238
What do you define as a decent chance?

Looking at the table it's insanely low, and even impossible most of the time.

It's also premised on the idea of having technology that's millions of years old, jury-rigged, and sitting next to completely alien, also jury-rigged technology from another civilization that was millions of years older even than it.

>>48848628
It's a needless "fuck you" to the player that just doesn't need to be there. The whole system revolves around these dumb things, so why punish the players for carrying more than, like, three. No fantasy system makes you roll on a table if you wear a magic cape along with your magic boots. No sci-fi system has a chance to disintegrate your stuff if you've got too much alien tech on you. It's needless bullshit that makes players stay away from these things more than it encourages their use.

>>48848794
It's it's an attempt to keep players from hoarding magic items so that they actually use the damned things. It doesn't really work and generally feels really arbitrary, but it's not a bad idea in itself imo.

>>48848898

If you want players to use magic items all you really gotta do is make them useful and interesting.

And if you wanna prevent them from hordeing them a better solution is to have certain magical items be one-time use or malfuction easily rather than having them all basically collapse the moment they're put onto the same person.

Or the MOST sensible option is: a handy guide to inform you what classes/archetypes benefit best from what magic items and how many they should generally have at any given level.

>>48848949
They ARE useful and interesting, that's the problem.

The players want to save them for that one single special moment, and end up never using them.

>a better solution is to have certain magical items be one-time use or malfuction easily rather than having them all basically collapse the moment they're put onto the same person.

It doesn't work that way, it's a daily check, with a very, very low chance of causing anything even remotely like them stopping working.

I enjoy talking to morons, so keep it up.

>>48848949
>have certain magical items be one-time use

That's the whole point of the cypher system and one of the things Cooke wouldn't shut up about.

>>48848794
>It's needless bullshit that makes players stay away from these things more than it encourages their use.
Nope, if you stretch a lot, then maybe, but it works 0% like that. They're absolutely essential to have and use, and the only thing that discourages their use is that you don't know if you'll find one that's powerful in that same way for a while.

>>48848974

>The players want to save them for that one single special moment, and end up never using them.

Wait: Guy who's unfamiliar with Numenera here. Are you saying the magic items in these games are like one use only? Cause I can't see another reason a player would never use them.

>It doesn't work that way, it's a daily check, with a very, very low chance of causing anything even remotely like them stopping working.

Daily Check? As in you have to roll EVERY DAY?

Even if the percentages are "very low" that kinda increases exponentially when you factor in the basic element of time.

>>48848325
So he invented the revolutionary concept of... talking to players in between sessions? And having side sessions to explore characters? That thing that people have already been doing for ten years? And it uses a DECK OF CARDS? I really, REALLY hope this is a massive and overwhelming commercial failure. No, I hope it never gets off the ground.

>>48849004
Any player will take one look at the table, see the "all your shit breaks/makes you sick/turns into acid and burns the shit out of you/opens a fucking singularity" entries and will nope the fuck away from that shit, no matter how unlikely it is to happen. It's why nobody goes near wild mage. Sure, it seems like fun at first, but it'll inevitably screw you, the party, or both, and everyone knows it.

>>48849027
Magic items in Numenera are almost entirely one-use, and you're supposed to constantly be getting more of them. The limit is intended to encourage use, while also encouraging the GM to give enough of them that the players need to make decisions about keeping magic doohickey A vs magic woodad Y.

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>>48849027
No, magic items are more closely associated with Artifacts, which can be used many times.

>>48849118
>any player will
>no player does
Pic related is for you.

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>>48849171
My apologies anon, you're not stupid, that was from last thread where you tried to argue that there was no Interaction block on the monster manual entries.

>>48831308

The difference is that FATE points and invoking one for a consequence is suppose to be something that relates to your character in some way. It's a flaw or a limitation of their aspects rearing its ugly head and causing them problems.

In Numenera it's literally "Oh you picked a bow? Then I can decide it actually hits an ally". Which fyi is only really tactical if you have another not-rogue in the party since they take less damage from ranged attacks.

It's essentially the same thing as FATE points but it misses a critical element of them: that they're meant to relate to your own characters flaws an limitations in believable ways. They're not meant to be spontaneous shit that just happens because your character suddenly didn't know how to use a goddamn sword.

>>48849315
Seems like it's up to the DM to come up with intrusions that aren't stupid and implausible. A tall order.

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>>48849315
That's a neat talk about FATE points.

In Numenera, intrusions are a storytelling tool for the GM to add complication while rewarding the players for it. Everything from some unseen difficulty, to a dramatic twist.

That moment when the DM had the bugbear crash in the door and join the fight in your first dungeon? That was a Numenera intrusion, except he didn't reward you XP for him doing it.

>>48849197
Everything you underlined and highlighted only reinforces that the table doesn't need to be there at all.

>>48849373

Again: It's basically FATE points but it misses a critical element of them.

Just because Numenera is "different" doesn't mean its implementation of what's basically the same mechanic is "better".

Also your example is goddamn ridiculous because you're telling me I need to reward my PC's experience for simply deciding to have a random encounter here?

>>48849388
Except it literally explains
>Why it's there.
>Some alternatives.
>How you lost, you're a moron

Cyphers are common in the Cypher System, they're also very powerful. You are supposed to come across them frequently and use them frequently, and the mechanics encourage you to do so. That entire page explains this concept.

>>48849407
>it's basically FATE points
No? Does the GM reward FATE points every time he adds a story complication?

>for simply deciding to have a random encounter there
No, it's for when you change up the flow. Let's say the PC's are already fighting your super-generic goblins, and you wait for the exact right moment where one of them has their back to the door. The bugbear smashing in and joining the fight is dramatic, but you decided it arbitrarily, so you reward the players. They also get the enjoyment from the encounter, in addition to actual mechanical benefit. This is one of many uses of intrusions.

>>48849407
Is the argument that they're not fate points and not used the same way supposed to be a bad thing?

>>48849430
>Why it's there.
It contradicts itself, both in the paragraph above it and in the table itself.
>Some alternatives
Further reinforcing that the table doesn't need to be there at all when there's much less stupid replacements.
>How you lost, you're a moron
Oh, we're just resorting to petty namecalling and claiming victory. Cool. I can do that.

I win, you lose fuckface.

>>48849465

You're really bad at selling me on intrusions as a mechanic.

What you're literally describing is goddamn skinnerbox shit.

"Oh well I guess I made this encounter too borign eh I'll throw in an extra mook BONUS XP!"

It's rewarding players for nothing other than arbitrary bullshit as you literally put it. The point of FATE invokes is that the Fate point you get? Is just there so that players don't feel immediately screwed over and try to make aspects like "flawless" or "perfect". They're there to, literally, reward players for roleplaying in ways that might otherwise hinder them. They're both there to "shake up the game" as you put it but to also help the player feel like he's playing a more flawed, human character rather than a player avatar. The fate point is just an afterthought after a while, a nice bonus that makes you feel good for roleplaying accordingly.

That's a MUCH more interesting mechanic than whatever the fuck you're describing and since it provides the same mechanical effect then there's not much else I can say other than "It's a better mechanic".

>>48849563

Yea except they're clearly MEANT to be Fate points?

Or at the very least they're cut from the same cloth as Fate points.

Just because they have different names doesn't mean they're incomporable.

>>48849574
>It contradicts itself
>Citation needed
I linked the pdf, why can't you back up your bullshit with examples or reason?

>we're just resorting to petty namecalling
Nope, I linked the literal pdf and explained why you were wrong, you haven't done shit, so instead of we, it's just you.

>>48849607
>>48849636
So, one is a mechanic that effects the world, the other is a mechanic that forces roleplaying on a character and is character focused.
I'm still not sure why it's hard to see that they're not the same thing.

>>48849698
I've explained why you were wrong multiple times, and I'm not a massive autismo so I'm not going to edit an image. Besides, anyone who looks at any of the shit you underlined for more than two seconds will see what I'm talking about.

And you can deny the namecalling all you want, but you did start it. Very rude, btw.

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>>48849846
>I've explained why you were wrong multiple times,
>Can't point to a single instance or example of such, it just happened he swears
>still doesn't give up even when showing literal book proof he's wrong

Wow, this is some strong defense.

>rude
>btw
Welcome to 4chan and /tg/, when you're correct or do something cool, we'll do something cool back. When you're wrong and retarded, we insult you and post image macro's while explaining why you don't deserve to live.

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>>48849846
I read it with more emphasis on the JUST resorting to petty namecalling. When two sides call eachother names, but one actually has an argument, you could say that only one side was JUST resorting to petty namecalling, even if the other side started it, and still be 100% accurate.

>>48822983
That picture is still great.