Exalted General - /exg/

>>48800950

In our game, the first step in summoning a 2nd Circle is usually finding out who has it bound at the moment, and killing them. At least for the well-known seconds. A lot of research at an expansive library by a skilled academic might be able to find an obscure unbound one.

Not sure if the death of the sorcerer releasing the demon is canon, but that's how it works in our Creation.

>>48802445
Depends, on whether it's a personal binding or a task binding.

Death of the binder will free a demon from the first binding, but not from the second.

>>48802445
I prefer to not have most known 2CDs be summoned at any given time. The way I run Creation, there certainly aren't over a hundred Celestial Circle sorcerers around, and not all of them make a heavy use of demons.

>>48804229

Obviously, your Creation is your Creation, and you can run it however you want, but under 100 seems really low-ball to me.

For your pool, you've got the ~700 standard Exalted capable of Celestial sorcery. Then you've got the Deathlords (who pretty much all know sorcery, I think), some amount of 2nd Circle Demons (like Mara - although they can't summon other demons), Exigents and potentially the other new home-brew splats, higher-essence gods, and the bare handful of DBs/mortals who've managed to hack access to Celestial circle (like Mnemon and her mum). ~180 of the standard Exalted belong to castes (or similar) that push them towards Sorcery (yeah, all Twilights aren't sorcerers, but those that aren't are probably outweighed by the non-Twilights that are). Given all that, limiting Celestial sorcery to so few practitioners doesn't seem realistic to me.

Even limiting it to a hundred practitioners, and saying half of them don't use demons (which seems counter to the fluff - demons seem to be the bread-and-butter of sorcery), that means that at least 50 of the most commonly-known 2CEs are bound and accounted for. People with the patience and ability to unearth the name and nature of a heretofore unknown 2CE are probably rarer than Sorcerers able to summon them, in my head, anyway.

>>48804547
>or. People with the patience and ability to unearth the name and nature of a heretofore unknown 2CE

Problem with being this guy is that for each demon you can pull your "you activated my trap card" smug face and wreck everyone with unknown power - thing, only once. Because once you use the 2CD, then everyone will know about it and start summoning it.

You'd likely have a contingent of Siddie demonologists following you around recording your exploits

>>48805674

Nah, they still need to know the demon's name to summon it. So don't give it out, and forbid the demon from speaking it. Even if they know its name, they still won't be able to summon it until its task is complete, or your year-and-a-day is up - and finding out that information is also quite difficult if you're careful.

The amount of power 2CDs represent justifies those sort of shenanigans, in my mind. Just like any other form of power, it makes you powerful, but it also attracts enemies who want to take it for themselves.

>>48804547
I agree, but that my compounded with the number of 2cd. Assuming a paltry 70 2cd by Yozi, there's at least half a thousand 2cd to be summoned.

Anyway, I'd make it like summoning a 2cd is considered dangerous and thus only made by really experimented sorcerers. Not all Celestial sorcerers are demon summoners. And of them, not all demon summoners casually summon 2cd who are roughly as powerful as them and can absolutely wreck them.

Deathlords never summons demons because they are more necromancy inclined. Also they can't control them. Same thing with gods. They never summon demons because they just don't want a 2cd on the loose in Creation. Only Celestial Exalts have really the drive to summon 2cd casually, and of them, a very large number of Lunar/Sidereal won't because it is dangerous.

Crunch the numbers. In Creation, there's maybe 100 people who are able and willing to summon 2cd. They don't all have access to a demon true name. And even if they did, they won't make a dent in the half a thousand 2cd population.

Which doesn't mean some really popular 2cd won't be in huge demand. Octavian and Alveua are two examples of 2cd that are probably fought for by several sorcerers.

Anyone got any ideas for Hegra demons?

>>48806053
>Octavian and Alveua are two examples of 2cd that are probably fought for by several sorcerers.
Would they be, though? They're featured prominently in the books, but that doesn't mean that they're especially well known by the characters in the setting.

Just like there is almost certainly a Celestial Sorcerer Lunar on the other side of Creation to your campaign that will never come up in the books or in the narrative of your campaign, that Lunar could be summoning a bruiser warlord demon who isn't Octavian but who essentially fills the same role when bound.

Alveua, Mara and Siggereth don't need to be the only crafter, seducer, or fa/tg/uy demons in the setting either. And they don't need to be prominent in the setting just because they get screen time in the official media.

>>48806953
Octavian is a superstar of 2cd. He is one of the most successful and powerful 2cd, if not the most. He is known in hell, in heaven, and it is logical to think that he is known in creation. By the way, the book implies he is called in creation frequently enough.

Alveua is known for her crafting. She is canonically frequently called to craft things. She is maybe not the most well known crafter in creation, but it is logical to think she is often summoned.

>>48806953
>>48806977
This. Octavian is as close to a celebrity as Demons have

>>48806977
And Mara is a superstar of superstar of 2cd. She is the mother of sorcery, after all.

You know... There is bound to be a Solar (Akuma?) somewhere in Creation, only for the purpose of summoning a particularly hard-ass 3CD to kill all the 2CDs, that bound to endless tasks or particularly possessive immortal sorcerers. So that their 3CD progenitor could recreate them back in Malfeas. Or maybe they do it by themselves. Or there is a particular strike-group of Sidereals with the same job description.

>>48807210
I imagine there's a Siddie conscription to kill the solar Akuma before he can summon a 3CD under Yozi control (so effectively ree in Creation)

>>48807210
We call him the Garbage Collector. Sometimes, when you stall too much your tasks and take too much demon time, he appears to free some resources. He is really annoying, and most summoners wish they could simply release their 2cd when they don't need them anymore in a deterministic fashion.

Some sorcerers like the Garbage Collector and actively build their sorcerous procedure on him, but they are absolutely crazy. A good sorcerer doesn't need the Garbage Collector, he manages everything himself.

>>48807210
Summoning a third circle demon is a kind of magic reserved for Essence 5 Solars, who pretty much do not exist in the setting as of RY 768.

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I'm looking at some backer charms and I want to make sure I've got this right. In Burning Sky Apocalypse Strike, you launch up (Initiative/10) range bands, move half that distance in any direction, and then come down, right? In Heart-Eating Fist, do you still get the healing and free activation of Burning Sky Apocalypse Strike or Ascendant Battle Visage if you kill a trivial opponent?

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>>48806987
>She is the mother of sorcery, after all.

RY 768 and people still believe this kind of shit?

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>>48808986
That's still one of her names in 3e, whether it is true or not. In all case she's one of the more involved in Creation 2cd, a tremendous sorceress and an excellent martial artist. There is a reason why there is a Mara initiation.

>>48809751
Those are some worryingly large censor bars.

>>48809751

Don't places like the one in that image canonically exist in Exalted?

I plan to run a very high level campaign using characters from my previous Pathfinder campaigns, and I have found the system breaks down at high levels and also does not go far enough. Exalted seems the right level from what little I know about it, but how setting-dependent is the system?

>>48810312
You can find places that cater to any desire you can think of that don't break the three laws of sorcery.

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>>48810312
Tons in Malfeas where demons are weird and have none of the usual sexual restriction of humanity.

Some in the Underworld, the most well known being the whorehouse of mind-controlled gender bended ghost rapists. In the Underworld there is less monsters and more ghosts, though.

Some in the Wyrd, I guess, but that's just a play. They don't really like it here, they just play like they like it.

The Blessed Isles is more high class. Though you'll find almost anything here, there won't be monsters but elementals, gods, bound demons, and even DBs for the extremely rich who can afford to be broke in one night.

>>48810361

Fairly. Pretty much no matter what you do you're going to end up with people that are Solar-shaped, Lunar-shaped, etc.

It's not impossible to move it to different settings, but it's always going to bring some of Creation's logic with it just because of Charms being the primary expression of character ability.

>>48810415

Don't forget the Cerulean Lute of Harmony in Yu-Shan. Part brothel, part office block.

Is there anything from the devs on how Exigents are going to work? I mean, in terms of being "write 800 Charms and then make a one off character that only gets 60 of them" or "make up Charms whenever you want a new one"?

>>48810209
Yeah, it's futa.

>>48810527
Exigents are going to be entirely custom, from patron to charmset.

They're the Homebrew Exalted.

>>48810527

Probably more the latter, in the vein of "have an idea of the overall structure of the Charmset, plan out ahead a couple specific Charms in advance, adjust as reality sets in."

They haven't been too specific, but that's how I'll do it unless their advice is significantly better somehow.

>>48810587
>>48810209
Well, it's obviously a strength specialized Lunar against a 2cd, so it is perfectly logical and expected for both of them to have a penis.

I wish that you could make any ability your Supernal, not just one of your Caste abilities.

>>48811721
Why?

>>48811744
I'd just like to have Castes with unusual focuses. Like the Bureaucracy Dawn or the Performance Eclipse.

>>48811797
How would you make such characters make sense while retaining the purpose of castes?

Why have Castes in the first place?

>>48812024

As an organizational tool for players and to incentivize meaningful niche protection.

>>48812024
Because each Caste has special powers related to their anima that the other Castes don't have.

>>48811902
That would depend entirely on each character made.

>>48812069
Personally, I'm not really a fan of niche protection and would have preferred a more a more free-form way to make Exalted.
>>48812077
That can be gotten rid off or just go for a point-build anima power instead.

>>48812159

You do you, then.

This is one of those things that's fine at any table but wouldn't have been preferable at every table, I think, like DB Supernals and the like.

Baseline affects the culture of the game.

>>48812069
"Niche protection" in Exalted means everybody does completely unrelated shit a ton. It honestly seems to make the game exponentially harder to run and is kind of counter to playability.

You can have two Nights in a party and if anything it works better than a Night and a Dawn; there's enough Charms for you to not worry about character A and B winding up being mirror images of one another, and the overlapping skillsets allows you to participate in the same scene a lot more easily.

>>48812077
>Because each Caste has special powers related to their anima that the other Castes don't have.
That's a circular argument. Why have Caste powers? I mean, a lot of the caste powers can be emulated to a lesser/variant degree with a Charm - there's a Charm in stealth that mimics the Night's 2m anima swallowing and a Charm in occult that mimics the Eclipse's ability to learn spirit Charms, for example.

What do Castes and Caste powers add to the game in and of themselves?

>>48812308
>What do Castes and Caste powers add to the game in and of themselves?

That's the point of my desire to break the Supernal away from the Caste abilities, that dichotomy.

The Stealth Zenith that can emulate the Crow's '30 hours of pain' memory share, or Brawl Twilight that doesn't want to leave the asskicking to summoned minions, etc.

>>48812308
Castes add easy party roles for newbies coming from dnd - fighter, rogue, thief, Mage, bard - pre planned niches. Nothing wrong with home brewing them away of course, but they can make characters stand apart right out of the gate

>>48808867
>In Burning Sky Apocalypse Strike, you launch up (Initiative/10) range bands, move half that distance in any direction, and then come down, right?

Yes

>In Heart-Eating Fist, do you still get the healing and free activation of Burning Sky Apocalypse Strike or Ascendant Battle Visage if you kill a trivial opponent?

No

I like how the 3rd Edition lets you choose your 5 caste abilities from a group 8 options.

What Level Sorcerous working would I need to do to make a size 5 army of fully grown humans?

>>48813691
C3

>>48813691
>>48813775

I'd allow Celestial 1, myself.

>>48813775
>>48813775
>>48814026
So would I be able to summon them with fighting knowledge or would I have to train them up. Also would they be capable of reproducing so after the fight I could have them populate a city?

>>48814091

You CAN do lots; it just cranks up the cost of the Working the more you do.

"Breed a group of mortals that instinctively have Melee 3 and maybe one minor supernatural ability" or whatever is Terrestrial 3-ish, but you'd be waiting for their numbers to get up.

Creating a full army's worth ex nihilo AND having them breed true is getting up at Celestial 2 or 3.

>>48814091
C3 assumed they were full grown and of combat age, Finesse would determine thier combat readiness.

F5, you have crack elite troops with a range of chosen specialisms, all able to move as if they've drilled for years together in battle. Hell they come pre-installed with any applicable War charms you have.

F3 they're an army ready to fight, some might be elite and you'll cover most bases but they'll be simple jobs like light / heavy / archer / pike

F1 you get a wrangled together mass of bodies, all competent soldiers but with no real understanding of each other's abilities, no pre-learned tactics and no comraderie from years of imagined warfare side by side

>>48814138
>>48814160
Thanks for the advice.

>>48814160
THAT IS NOT HOW FINESSE WORKS.

>>48814219
Explain? How should it work?

>>48814219
You get less control at F1 & F3. Those were examples of how your ST might agree the soldiers you just conjured turn out as your Solar loosens his grip on the final product - still soldiers, an army ready to go, but without your ideal distribution and experience

>>48814292
Finesse is your precise control over the *way* the result of the Working manifests.
Low Finesse: you state desired outcome, Storyteller dictates how you get it.
Medium Finesse: Storyteller adds quirks.
High Finesse: You get to dictate exactly how the thing works.

> Finesse would determine thier combat readiness.
So this is wrong because combat readiness is a "quality" outcome, not a "manner" outcome. You should get the same combat readiness regardless of Finesse. What Finesse dictates would be something more like whether you get to expy your favorite historical army with tigers, or whether the ST hands you moose cavalry and birdmen.

>>48814389
>Finesse
>i want a human army
>no, you got beastmen instead lmao

That's a really shitty way to handle your player's workings

Looks like Miracles of the Solar Exalted is out on DTRPG this Wednesday.

http://theonyxpath.com/and-that-was-the-gen-con-that-was-monday-meeting-notes/

>>48814419
Well then, always make sure you can succeed at Finesse 5.

>>48814419
No, that's a perfectly appropriate way to handle dumpstat Finesse.

>>48814449
>>48814463
So your solution is to sya "fuck you" to your players and give them a working that doesn't even match their original intent?

Why?

>>48814502
What are you talking about? The example player given wanted an army of humans, he got an army of humans.

>>48814519
He got an army of beastmen, not the same thing. That's like Working a mild winter every year and getting jellybeans instead of snow

>>48814546
Beastmen are humans, you racist. It's more like working a mild winter and getting rain instead of snow.

>>48814502
That's the purpose of Finesse 1. You get something that is only vaguely similar to what you wanted.

You don't get to dictate any details, including race, gender, size, etc.

>>48814419
>>48814546

Depends on whether the character didn't get what they wanted or whether the player didn't. I don't think lack of Finesse should be an invitation to screw the player over ala Tomb of Horror, but a way to introduce interesting problems.

Not behave like a jackass genie.

Plus it's going to be a gradual working anyway not an instant effect, so its not like the character will get blindsided by it

What sort of combat grid should I keep for Exalted? I'm using a roll20 room. Should I keep a place for tokens, initiative and such things?

Okay, before the internet argument goes on for too long, let's get the reference material in here.

> While every sorcerous working is defined by the sorcerer's intention or goals in performing it, Finesse determines the extent to which the sorcerer’s player gets to dictate how this intent is fulfilled by the working. If, for example, a sorcerer wished to ward a chamber against demons, a Finesse 1 working and a Finesse 5 working would both be equally efficacious in fulfilling that goal — but the nature and mechanics of the Finesse 1 working would be decided almost entirely by the Storyteller, while those of the Finesse 5 working would be decided by the sorcerer’s player.

> Finesse Effect

> 1: The Storyteller determines how the working manifests in the world. This will always be in accordance with the basic intent of the working — a sorcerer wishing to create a magical servant from clay who succeeds at a Finesse 1 working will never end up creating something that refuses to serve him — but all details of the final result are in the Storyteller's hands.

> 3: The sorcerer’s player comes up with a rough description of how the working plays out in the world, which the Storyteller can then polish or embellish with catches, quirks, or twists that make the working more interesting or flavorful without undermining the core intent of the working.

> 5: The sorcerer's player defines exactly how the sorcerous working plays out in the world, subject to Storyteller approval.

>>48814592
>The Storyteller determines how the working manifests in the world.

This only works if the ST intentionally wants to screw the player

>>48814419
>>48814546
Beastfolk are humans.

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>>48814622
ps: i'm a cute anime girl

>>48814651

But as >>48814609 says, giving a guy who wanted an army a load of beastmen instead is very much being a jackass genie

>>48814628
Your autism is showing again.

An army of beastmen is fucking improvement over an army of humans, anyway. Beastmen are superior to humans.

You should be more concerned with the fact that Finesse 1 is going to give you a bunch of peasants instead of soldiers.

>>48814622
You shouldn't use a combat grid. Exalted has range bands of unspecified size, instead. Keep combat rings, maybe?

>>48814673
No? Hawkmen are actually even better than normal men so it's actually a bonus.

>>48814673
>giving a guy who wanted an army a load of beastmen instead is very much being a jackass genie
>a load of beastmen instead
>instead

A beastman army is still an army. It may be an army with a taste for raw meat, unusually high foraging skills and a tendency to get tired faster on hot days, but it's not an "instead" of an army. It's an army of a different sort.

You want to be allowed to specify the bloodlines of the army you're Working up? Take more finesse.

>>48814704
All depends really - if the player really hates beastmen, the GM would be being a jerk pointlessly, or if it causes massive un-needed conflict not agreed on by the rest of group - e.g. another party member is known to see all beastmen as shoot on sight.

Either way, no rule in the game will prevent Rocks Fall, Everyone Dies.

>>48814704
>hawkmen

You will now forever think of this when you think of hawkmen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2xS-AxKk0k

Bringing up furries was a mistake. Bringing up furries is always a mistake, but it's a particularly bad mistake when using it to illustrate a vague mechanic.

Huh, so miricales is out for real this Wednesday. Its PoD? I would have figured something that small would be pdf only.

>>48814952
Well it's up to the buyer if they want to print it or not.

>>48814952
What is Miracles again? I've not been paying super close attention.

>>48814981
Bunch of custom Solar charms and images requested by backers + a few extra ones added by the Devs.

~30 pages of more charms

>>48815021
>http://theonyxpath.com/and-that-was-the-gen-con-that-was-monday-meeting-notes/
And what's the difference between it and the list of backer charms we have now?

>>48815134

One Charm that got left out was presumably added in.

>>48815134
Dev fixes, missing charm added, images?

Plus optionaly opportunity to support OP through purchasing a physical / digital copy?

>>48815134
There isn't any, the devs are wildly incompetent and thieves have more supplements than paying customers.

>>48815269
And yet if Onyx Path closes down the line not even an Eclipse will get us more splats.

>>48815269
That's normal.

>>48815339
For the liars Holden and Morke, maybe.

Why does the Uniform keyword even exist?

> Uniform: This Charm has the same effect for WITHERING and DECISIVE attacks and defenses.

Shouldn't this be the baseline?

For that matter, why does the Dual keyword exist? Is it not sufficiently obvious when a charm says "Enhances an attack by adding doodlephants. In addition, withering attacks get a faggotbonus." that it's doing one thing for decisive and another thing for withering?

Is it just the devs being retarded and needing to lrn2keyword?

>>48815134
well unless you're a backer you technically aren't supposed to have it yet

>>48815413
That's real cute that people think that will, in any way, stop people.

>>48815361
Maybe it's for organization. With the charms having sentence-long names, some of which only give a hint at the function, it might be useful to have concrete tags to use when trying to find a specific charm by function instead of name.

Or the devs could just not know how keywords work, sure.

>>48815494
Exalted is run by fucktarded mongs whose response to a leak was to double down on hush-hushenings, reduce their playtesting, cut their fucking PROOFREADER out of the loop among others, and sit on the material for another TWO FUCKING YEARS while blaming leakers for "spoiling their hype".

Their approach to security and piracy has been shit for quite some time. It's funny once or twice, but a lot less cute when the trainwreck never ends.

>>48815635
Yeah, they need someone with a brain to kick them onto the right path.

There's something really funny about watching retarded faggots complain about retarded faggots.

>>48815589
I'm gonna go with them not knowing how keywords works because that wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.

>>48815589
>Or the devs could just not know how keywords work, sure.

I think it's this one. Look at the first two Archery charms, Wise Arrow and Sight Without Eyes. Removing all the florid verbiage, the effect of the first boils down to "Attack partly ignores cover" and the effect of the second boils down to "Attack ignores concealment".

Wise Arrow has the Uniform keyword.
Sight Without Eyes has *no* keywords.

Between Uniform, Dual, Withering-Only and Decisive-Only you'd think they'd have covered all the bases, but apparently not.

>>48815635
Isn't their proofreader Stephen Lea Sheppard? Literally the nicest guy, most calm, and composed guy in the entire writing staff? How the fuck do they cut him out? He's like the one guy other than themselves that they can be sure isn't the leaker.

>>48816001
they thought they had cut it down to just the OPP staff, and then the second leak happened.

>>48816016
Pretty sure that, given the tone with which these books are written (which I read as a barely-restrained THIS IS AWESOME LOOK AT HOW AWESOME THIS IS IT DOESN'T SUCK ANYMORE NOT LIKE 2E REALLY LOOK AT IT DO YOU LOVE US NOW?????)
the source of the leaks is probably one of the core devs who just can't contain themselves.

>>48815861
Devs don't understand keywords, part 2.

Seven Omens Shot:
>Keywords: Decisive-only
>...bluh bluh bluh adds any extra successes on the attack roll to the attack's raw damage.

Sometimes a charm will have Decisive-Only or Withering-Only in its keywords, and reiterate in the text that it only allows or supplements or creates an X attack.

Other times, as with Seven Omens Shot, a charm will have X-Only in its keywords, and the text will just say "an attack" or "the attack" with no mention of X.

But with Seven Omens Shot, it's actually even worse than it looks.

Because *decisive attacks don't have a raw damage*. Only withering attacks do. Quoting from the Combat chapter:

> Resolving A Withering Attack
> Step Two: If the attack succeeds, determine its raw damage. Raw damage is an attack's damage rating before soak (see p. 194) is subtracted. Raw damage is usually calculated as (attacker’s Strength + weapon’s damage value + threshold successes on attack roll in Step One.)

Decisive attacks use an entirely different damage method (roll initiative).

>>48816114

Raw damage is used in a lot of charms. It means damage dice/damage before the roll rather than flat damage.

That one place where it's defined isn't consistent with the actual usage, which is almost any time they're talking about damage before the roll.

>>48816098
I can just imagine meetings.

>stinkeye all around
>I know it was one of you fuckers
>it was the janitor

>>48816114
Seven Omens is explicitly Decisive because Withering attacks already add extra successes to the damage roll, but Decisive don't. So, Seven Omens lets those extra sux add more damage beyond just your initiative.

And Seven Omens has the Decisive-Only keyword in the actual release. Maybe you're working off an old version that didn't have it.

>>48816001
>Isn't their proofreader Stephen Lea Sheppard?
Yes.
>Literally the nicest guy, most calm, and composed guy in the entire writing staff?
I'd snark about this being a low bar, but I think that yes, he seriously is.
>How the fuck do they cut him out?
They're retarded mongs!

>He's like the one guy other than themselves that they can be sure isn't the leaker.
I'm not convinced there even *is* a leaker, necessarily.
Partly because I think they may have been hacked or otherwise penetrated externally, rather than having an internal mole.
But partly because I have gotten really cynical about how this shithole of a company operates. In one of their announcements about the leak, they issued a statement to the effect of "LOOK WHAT YOU MADE US DO. Your leak made us reduce playtesting and lower the quality of our product. Now Exalted is going to be a worse game and it's all your fault." Which sounds like such a shitty, blame-deflecting excuse that it me wondering if they might have deliberately manufactured a 'leak' as a scapegoat for low quality or firing playtesters or something.

>>48816169
>That one place where it's defined isn't consistent with the actual usage
So, like rerolls?
(Where they're defined, rerolls are stated to remove the dice they reroll. In actual usage, charms tell you to reroll 10s.)

>>48816227
>And Seven Omens has the Decisive-Only keyword in the actual release. Maybe you're working off an old version that didn't have it.

Uhhh... what?

>>48816114
>Seven Omens Shot
>Keywords: Decisive-only

>>48816016
Yeah, but they have a large number of freelancers, some of whom have only been working with them for a short while. The obvious suspect would be one of them (spoilers: it was). Stephen been there since like Exalted 1st Edition, and he a man of good character. They should trust him if no one else. Besides if the devs know for a fact that neither of them is a leaker, they can bring in a third person safely because if anything leaks it was obviously his fault. So there's no justification at all for cutting him out, even if they don't trust him even though they fucking should.

Also to be perfectly honest, they should be thankful the second leak happened, it gave people something to hold on and look forward to. It kept interest alive. They say it caused delays to the writing process, but that's because they're shit at handling difficulties. Holden once commented that everything that could go wrong with a project like Ex3 has gone wrong, which is the kind of statement that almost certainly points to a deeply flawed management structure. Things don't just go wrong for no reason, and while bad luck happens, well designed projects have enough slack in them to absorb setbacks. When a project is just plagued with every kind of problem it is virtually guaranteed that it's because the people in charge are fucking up.

>>48816262
Then I'm not understanding your butthurt here.

>decisive raw damage is your initiative
>Seven Omens adds extra sux to raw damage
>raw damage is now initiative + extra sux
>???
>profit

>>48816305
My butthurt was twofold:
* charms with the Decisive-Only keyword sometimes harp on "a DECISIVE attack" (uppercase since I can't bold) in the text, and sometimes just say "an attack", which is a sloppy inconsistency
* Seven Omens Shot in particular has D-Only but references a W mechanic

I am fine with the interpretation of SOS as doing what you say. I am bitching about the need for constant interpretation, not just to resolve vagueness, but to ignore _mistaken precision_ where the game will define a term one place and then use it differently another place because the dev team seems to have only barely improved in consistency since Manual of Schizophrenic Power: Infernals came out and was half antihero rockstars of hell, half mustache-twirling rape olympics.

>>48816480

Every book needs interpretation. The meaning was clear enough to those of us that are not overly literal minded.

>>48816298
>Holden once commented that everything that could go wrong with a project like Ex3 has gone wrong, which is the kind of statement that almost certainly points to a deeply flawed management structure. Things don't just go wrong for no reason, and while bad luck happens, well designed projects have enough slack in them to absorb setbacks. When a project is just plagued with every kind of problem it is virtually guaranteed that it's because the people in charge are fucking up.

You can remove the "almost" from that qualifier. The management is just as tards as the devs. Here's a great example of them fucking up on camera: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/200664283/deluxe-exalted-3rd-edition/posts/1588343

> May 28 2016
> The Ex3 Screen as well as the Backer Charm book that was a Reward and an Add-on are with the new White Wolf Publishing for their approval.
> As soon as we get the OK from them for the Backer Charm book PDF, we'll get that out to those who backed that Reward Tier, and then I'll go through each pledge level individually and send links to the many folks who added that PDF on to their pledges. It's a multi-day process, so bear with me. :)

Did it ever strike you, RichT, that this is shit you should have started doing years ago? And if not years ago, it's shit you (or an intern) could be doing *now* rather than putting it off until it delays critical path?

>>48816703
You do realise that the business is just him, his wife and one other person right?

Everyone else is freelancers - there are no interns.

Plus it'd make no sense to get the ST screen out before the EX3 pdf with no game to play it with.

>>48816968
>You do realise that the business is just him, his wife and one other person right?
>Everyone else is freelancers - there are no interns.
My point isn't specific to interns. My point is that assembling a list of emails isn't rocket surgery, it's grunt work, and it's grunt work that is being put off to the point where it causes critical path drag.

>Plus it'd make no sense to get the ST screen out before the EX3 pdf with no game to play it with.
I'm talking about the backer charms, not the ST screen. Plus he's speaking in the future tense about a coming multi-day process of "go through each pledge".

>>48816480
Honestly i think part of the problem is the overly fluffy writing. If they used precise, technical, efficient language to describe the charm effects, they probably wouldn't have this problem. The overwriting is sometimes pretty obscene. Like Heaven Thunder Hammer is 6 paragraphs and 289 words. Yet you can condense the whole thing down to just this:

"At the moment of impact, the Solar sends a surge of Essence up her arm or down her leg, multiplying the force of her blow many times over. Activate this charm after hitting with a Decisive attack. If any damage is successfully rolled, render the target prone and steal one Initiative added to yours on reset. Greater successes have the following effects: three knocks the target into an object or surface in close range and deals short falling damage; four is identical to three but deals medium falling damage, or may knock him to short range and deal short falling damage; five knocks the target to short range and deals medium falling damage. The target may be knocked upwards or into environmental hazards, turning the damage lethal. At Essence 3+, double successes on the damage solely to calculate knockback, and if this damage is 7+ increase it to medium range with medium falling damage."

Same charm, only 40% as long. They could have probably cut fifty pages out of the book just by not being so goddamned verbose.

>>48810641

If I was writing the Exigent book (and I'm not, and the people who are are idiots), I'd have a large number of charms, roughly grouped into thematic clusters, and recommendations on picked a bunch of clusters to create the charm-pool for your exigent, as well as detailing the design decisions behind a handful of example clusters, providing a methodology for extending of creating your own.

>>48817108
>I'm talking about the backer charms, not the ST screen. Plus he's speaking in the future tense about a coming multi-day process of "go through each pledge".

Yeah, he should have organized all the backers into a spreadsheet or something once the Kickstarter was over. That way he wouldn't have to spend multiple days going over each individual pledge to figure out who ordered what every time they have a new release. Instead he could simply click on the button that shows all the people who signed up for that thing, then copy and paste the list. Done. It's basic organization, but they can't even manage that, instead they're doing everything by hand every single time, and therefore wasting tremendous amounts of time. It's a sign of bad management and inefficient workflow structure.

>>48817373

That would be fucking terrible. Every Exigent would look and feel the same.

>>48817373
I'd just dedicate the book on how to build your own charms with examples liberally thrown in to aid that fact.

>>48812077
>Because each Caste has special powers related to their anima that the other Castes don't have.

This is especially annoying when the powers are useful with non-caste archetypes. For instance, one of the characters I've got written up and ready for play is a non-combatant whose combat shtick is basically overwhelming social intimidation. You know what would be really useful for that sort of character? The Dawn's anima power. For a character who's intended to never really need to swing a weapon. Sigh.

>>48817459
I think Caste powers should have been made so that the player can pick which one applies to their characters and the same for favored skills as well. Yes, it could lead to some overlap between players but that's not necessarily a bad thing.

>>48817459
>Solar Exalted
>non-combatant

Does not compute.

>>48814026

I'd make it quite difficult, as creating physical things from nothing isn't what workings are for. They're for changing and subverting the existing patterns of Creation. Something from nothing is Wyld Shaping.

Sure, you can do it, but it should explicitly be a pain to do so.

>>48817494
It's not that hard to wrap your mind around it if you 'd at least try, Anon. Not everyone wants to spend XP on more than the bare essentials of combat charms when they'd rather put it elsewhere.

>>48817539
Almost every Ambition has a 'creating something from nothing' example, even Terrestrial Ambition 1.

>>48817575
A Solar that can't fight is a dead Solar.

>>48817405

Sort of like every Solar looks the same because they only have a book of 800 charms to pick from?

>>48817539
It doesn't have to literally mean "nothing" - dirt and sticks and compost and butchery waste material, all brewed together in massive cauldrons by Neomah (summoning demons could also be a part of process of a SW). Then you'll end up with a scene from LotR, where they dig out fully-formed Uruk-Hai.

>>48817492
Castes reinforce the notion of actual, well, castes. Exalted Host was created as an army to throw at the Titans, with their own specialties and areas of expertise, that the Exaltations were optimized for. It also reinforces a kind of Divine Order, metaphysically balanced between five components - which is the most significant number in Creation. It is not "fair", sure, and would not fit every concept - but, I'd say, this is the case where restriction is for the best. One could have been a veteran of a hundred battles, but something prompted them to Exalt as an Eclipse. And then, an urchin in a fight for his life Exalted as a Dawn - and in a half-a-year, he is more terrifying and deadly, than that veteran could ever hope to be. I very much like that unfairness.

>>48817689

Well, yes, actually, at a design level Solars DO look very similar, and very different from Sidereals. That's kind of the point of them being a single coherent splat.

Exigents have to cover the breadth of multiple splats for their concept to work at-fucking-all.

>>48817611

Wow, your games must be so interesting.

"I use Stealth to sneak past-"
"NO! SOLAR FIGHT!"

"I use my social-fu to dissuade them from attacking-"
"NO! SOLAR FIGHT!"

"I activate my super-speed charms and out-run-"
"NO! SOLAR FIGHT!"

>>48817795
I didn't say Solars ONLY fight, fucktard.

I said Solars CAN fight, given they were made to fight a war.

>>48815134

Errata.

>>48818090
True, that'll make it worth stealing again.

>>48817766
>Castes reinforce the notion of actual, well, castes. Exalted Host was created as an army to throw at the Titans, with their own specialties and areas of expertise, that the Exaltations were optimized for.
2e canon, not 3e canon. 3e canon, the Exaltations are representations of the nature of their relevant god(dess), they could not have been made otherwise by that god(dess), they were not specially designed as god-killing weapons any more than the Exigents, Liminals, or Alchemicals are.

>>48818361
I often forget how much 3e canon sucks, thank you for the depressing reminder.

>>48818431
The idea that Exaltations are designed as war machines is fucking stupid and frankly nonsensical.

>>48818442
Not at all. Considering 2E lore, it makes perfect sense.

>>48817828

If a Solar can sneak well enough, he can avoid a fight. If he is persuasive enough, he can avoid a fight. If he is fast enough, he can avoid a fight. The only way to force every Solar to be a combat monkey is to nerf the other abilities such that combat trumps them all. This is dumb and boring.

>I said Solars CAN fight, given they were made to fight a war.

And wars are nothing but frontline grunts running head-long into enemy lines until one side gives way, amirite?

There's no role for generals, double-agents, espionage, technologists or demagogues in the prosecution of a war. Only sword-swingers.

>>48818501
And what happens when your hyperfocused specialty fails? Your Solar goes splat because you're a fucking moron that never expected to have to fight.

Have you alternate methods, that's good. But make sure your Solar can fight too, or you're just wasting time.

>>48818491
It makes no sense. The core reason is that the powers the Exalted have clearly and directly correlate to the natures of their divine benefactors, both in function (Solar excellence, Lunar formlessness, Sidereal fate fuckery, Dragon-Blooded elementalism) and in origin (Solars, exalted by heroism; Sidereals, chosen at birth by destiny; Dragon-Blooded, children of Gaia's children, chosen by bloodlines).

Why in the world would it turn out that carefully designed military devices just so happened to exactly represent the thematic natures of their creator? It wouldn't, because they aren't carefully designed military devices, they're blank slates stuffed full of divine power which formed and shaped their abilities and behavior.

>>48818555
They represent the themes of their patrons because their Exaltations were made by the power of their patrons. That's fairly well spelled out in 2E lore too. Autobot built the framework for the shards, but it was each of the Incarna that supplied the power to fill them.

>>48818617
Yeah. Their power represents the power of their patrons. Not fucking war machineriness.

The war machine aspect sounds like ES fanon to me.

>>48818555

>Dragon-Blooded, children of Gaia's children, chosen by bloodlines

DBs aren't associated with Gaia. Autochthon realised that 700 Exalts would be enough, that the Celestials still needed foot soldiers to wage war with.

>>48818550

Then you fall-back to your plan-b - you know, the talker runs, the runner sneaks, and the sneaker talks. Just because you're obsessed with combat, and can't figure out how to approach a problem obliquely, doesn't mean the rest of us are similarly handicapped.

>>48818677
>Dragon-Blooded: The Chosen of the Five Elemental Dragons

>Five Elemental Dragons, the: Children of Gaia and with power to challenge the Incarnae, the Five Elemental Dragons are the patrons of the Terrestrial Exalted.

>>48818701
Whatever. I bet you constantly whine about GM's killing your characters instead of actually building characters that can defend themselves.

>>48818704

Fuck me I really need to get up to speed with the new lore. I only just remembered that the Law of Diminishment was a thing as well.

>>48818641
Remember, the gods were incapable of directly fighting the Primordials due being programmed that way. They had to build proxies to fight for them.

So how else were they going to overthrow the Primordials if they couldn't do it themselves?

2.5e vs 3e lore? How does it compare? So far I'm liking 2.5 more because it's more detailed though I am looking forward for 3e to be expanded on.

>>48818735
Law of Diminishment? I'm fairly familiar with 2e and 3e lore and I've never heard of that. Explanation?

>>48818724

And I bet you sit around bitching "I'm bored. When's the next combat scene?", and trying to start fights while the rest of the party's trying to get things done.

>>48818791

The idea is that creating an Exaltation extremely and permanently diminishes the creator; that's why the Sun set for the first time after he made Solars, and why the gods that aren't straight killed by the flame of Exigence are never the same again.

I don't think it was kept as A Thing, but the basic idea is still present in 3e, I'd wager.

Why do Lunars need moosnilver tattoos to "fix their caste"? Why are the guerrilla fighter animal base nature guys the only ones who literally require artifacts for their Exaltations to work properly?

>>48818847
Spent too much time in the Wyld and it fucked them up which is stupid.

>>48818845
Honestly, I really like the concept behind it. The forging of an Exaltation should take take sacrifice and it just how strong the Incarnae were to make so many Exaltations.

>>48818847
They were corrupted by the Wyld, if memory serves correctly, and the moonsilver tattoos prevent them from dying to the utter nonreality/chaos that they live in.
>>48818855
Why would this be stupid? It takes a highly specialized Solar to survive in the Wyld for extended periods of time, and it's unlikely that every single Lunar happened to have extreme Wyld resistance. It's a logical plot reason for an in-game mechanic.

>>48818791

It's only referenced a few times. Any god who goes through the legal channels can create an Exalt, this is why Exigents exist. This, however, diminishes them significantly, most often just straight up killing them, which is why each Exigent is unique. More powerful gods, such as the Incarnae, can create several Exalts. The Yozi saw what happened to Oramus and decided to just break open the Jade Prison instead. Apparently before Solars were made, the sun shined 24/7, but the UCS lost so much power afterwards that the sun can only shine half the day, hence night was made.

>>48818885
>>48818845
Thank you, kind anons. Pretty sure that's still in 3e as the reason why Exigent-making gods die after they make Exigents, but I can't remember any specific mention of it.

>>48818823
If you must know, I tend to play stealth characters, and I typically bypass encounters if I can.

BUT. If I get caught? I'm able to fight instead of just dying while whining that I shouldn't have gotten caught, that was total bullshit, I'm going home!

>>48818883
Having some Lunars need moonsilver tattoos because they hung/hang out in the Wyld too long is perfectly sensible and cool. Having all Lunars, even ones who have lived their entire life in An-Teng need moonsilver tattoos is stupid.

>>48817828

You are one of the reasons I make non-combat characters only.

>>48818923
This> >>48818915 applies to you too.

>>48818918
I beleive the idea is the Wyld exposure infected the Exaltations themselves, so all Lunars now have to deal with it.

>>48818915

And I mostly play characters with combat competency. But when I do play a non-com, they have multiple means to avoid being killed in combat, and the Storyteller isn't so much of an arsehole that he systematically dismantles all potential avenues for escape and kills my character, just because he has some philosophical objection to Solar non-coms.

>>48818918
Well, the way I read it, it wasn't just their bodies that got corrupted, it was their souls and exaltations that were affected. They spent long enough in the Wyld that dragon-blooded, who live for hundreds of years, thought they were dead or gone. So that's a LONG time for soul-eating unreality spawn to screw with them, AND their exaltations.

>>48818883
An Exaltation is meant to be impervious right? It's why the Primordial didn't destroy during the War and now you're telling me that the Wyld was capable of permanently damaging the Exaltations? I don't buy it.

>>48818943
>>48818918

The Lunars of 3E changed because of the Solar bond, not the Wyld.

>>48818971
The Primordials were able to change, them, remember? The Great Curse, then the Abyssals and the Infernals.

>>48818971
Excuse me? Exaltations aren't invincible. Yozis and Neverborn screwed them up, and sure, those were primordials, but the Wyld existed before creation and is a power on par with them. Remember, these Lunars weren't spending ten or fifteen minutes in the Wyld. This was decades, even centuries, of living in the bordermarches and deep Wyld with no break time to recover.

>>48819026
They are indestructible, though, otherwise the Jade Prison wouldn't have been necessary.

>>48818971
>>48818990
>>48819026
>>48819074

The word you are looking for is "immutable", which Exaltations canonically are not. It's different from "indestructible", which, as far as we know, they are.

>>48818990
Except, those can't said to be actually interfering with Exaltation merely shining them through a different lense or in the case of the Great Curse 'improving' them. The Lunars? They lost two of their Castes and need Moonsilver Tattoos which can't be said to be an improvement.

>>48819177
Did the Lunars have five castes before their Exaltations got screwed up? What were they?

>>48819200
>The tattooing process was not perfect. While the sorcerers easily restored the Full Moon and No Moon Caste, the other three original castes were lost to the Wyld and replaced by a new, composite “Changing Moon” Caste.

Pg. 29

>>48819200

They were stated to have five in 2e, but what they were weren't revealed, presumably because the writers couldn't be fucked.

>>48819200
Yeah, they did. Full Moon, Waxing Moon, Waning Moon, No Moon, and Half Moon. The Lunars 2E book lists them.

>>48818955
Honestly in my future games I'm going to advocate for more people to not feel as if they have to be involved in combat. Just from a character standpoint, why the hell is the merchant-prince suddenly ready to risk his life in a kung-fu showdown with elemental supersoldiers, and a mechanical one.

Because of action economy and total mote pools typically the easiest way to "balance" another PC is by introducing another enemy. Which means with a full circle that's 10 actors in the combat, not counting Familiars, Retainers, armies, and various other NPCs that might be tagging along on the PCs side. This causes a huge slowdown and it just turns into something reminiscent of D&D where everyone just gangs up on one guy at a time and beats the ever loving shit out of them. Not counting the delay between getting to act when you have 10+ combatants.

It's much more impactful when the 2 people who are combat focused in the party square off against 2-3 foes which gives a nice back and forth letting the spotlight stay on the PCs involved for a larger percentage of the time. This turns around whenever a social scene is set and the two combat monkeys try to balance their teacups and watch in awe as the Eclipse schmoozes so hard they just got a new kingdom.

The only problem being they can still somewhat interact in a social scene while even the minimum level of interaction for combat requires you to roll Initiative, go through the turn order and generally take up a lot more time.

>>48819281
You never read the Lunars book, then.

>>48819026
>This was decades, even centuries, of living in the bordermarches and deep Wyld with no break time to recover.
So they just sat around, getting irradiated until their Exaltations broke down, and their actual body was... fine? In which case why is their Exaltation weaker than their body? Or was it being horribly mutated? In which case why did they stand around getting blasted by a billion pounds of radiation while having to spend time with raksha, who are the worst, instead of transforming into a cat and skulking back into Creation?

>>48819339
The Wyld Hunt doesn't exist, then, or only throws one or two combatants at a time at a full circle of Solars.

Fucking ridiculous.

>>48819375

You're right. At this point in history, it practically doesn't.

>>48819368
Because they were chickenshit, that's why.

>>48819400
It seems like hanging out with raksha and becoming a horrific mutant is a fate worse than death but what do I know.

>>48818885
What happened to Oramus?

>>48819339

Even my non-coms can generally do something in combat scenes, whether it's singing buff songs, channelling essence around with Lore, social-fuing enemies into surrender, or what not.

I usually make sure any character has something they can do in both combat and social scenes, because hanging around waiting for your niche is dull.

>>48819368
Because last time they went anywhere near the place the Dragonblooded told them to piss off, and this was shortly after the DBs killed all the Solars and imprisioned their Exaltations. The Lunars had no way of knowing if it was safe, and even if they had some sort of way of checking, every DB and their mother (literally) was looking for anything even vaguely resembling a Lunar or Solar exalt with the full force of the Scarlet Empress (at the height of her power) behind them. Basically, if they went to check, they die. If they try to invade, they die. Better to stay put and mutate then leave and die horribly. Survival is what Lunars do, and it's not always pretty.

>>48819418
They're called Chimera.
>>48819435
Locked up like the other Yozi.

>>48819390
It still exists. Once the Anathema start appearing droves(relatively), it will come back. The book even points that out.

So, yeah, give them an easy victory. They'll tell everyone of your misplaced arrogance.

>>48819453
Shouldn't it be after the Usurpation that the Lunars went into hiding so it would be during the time of the Shogunate?

>>48819443
You are obviously unenlightened as to the superiority of the pacifist who needs others to do their fighting for them whilst they stand around and chide the barbarians for their violent ways.

>>48819453
>>48819465
Okay, here's another thing. If the Wyld melted all the Lunar Exaltations, how come it didn't melt Raksi or Ma-Ha-Suchi's face off? Presumably they spent as much time as anybody else out there, why are their physical bodies not fucked up by the Wyld if it fucked up their Exaltations so bad? Is an Exaltation's host really so much more durable than the Exaltation itself?

>>48819435

It's not specified. He and Isidoros both tried to make their own Exalted, and the Yozi were "disquieted by the results." This is from the Infernals preview, by the way, so it's hard to say if it's actually canon.

>>48819534
It did fuck Ma-Ha-Suchi's body. It fucked Raksi's mind.

Both of those are kind of iconic for Chimera, you realize.

>>48819552
Weren't 3e Infernals going to be like ORT or something with overwriting reality with alien thematics?

>>48819443
is the solution to
>>48818550
and the related conversation.
At the end of the day it's a ST decision on how the encounters go together, which is what determines which characters are useful and which are not. The burden is on the players to make characters that have some variance to their skillset, but ultimately if the party is entirely comprised of socialites, thieves, and crafters, the ST can't throw combat challenges and blame the players when they don't succeed. Different situations and different encounters for different specializations.

>>48819525

That would come under the banner of "social-fuing enemies into surrender". Whether they surrender because they're scared of the great golden god, or because they're sobbing in horror at the life of violence they have previously lead is immaterial.

>>48819525
I always wanted to try a character who managed to solve every combat encounter with either engineering or diplomacy. But alas, I am forever GM, and cannot do this.
>mfw an NPC that tried to do this would get murdered by my players in fifteen seconds
>mfw I have no face

File: Basphomy in Verdigris, Iconic Slayer.png (106KB, 359x440px) Image search: [Google]

106KB, 359x440px

>>48819576

With nearly all of the Infernals preview being scrapped, no one really knows anymore. The only thing that's concrete, IIRC, is that they're now ability based and that Shintai's are their thing. Presumably pick related is staying on as an iconic Infernal, though.

>>48819652
Now that I don't mind as the uproar she caused among the SJWs was pretty amusing. I hope they don't change her too much though.

Thinking about it I could see a way for Lunars to require Moonsilver Tattoos without necessitating for the Wyld to have actually damaged the Exaltation.Instead it infused a bit of its power into the Exaltations similar to how the Yozi did 'improving' them. The Lunar Exaltations gain greater control over the Wyld but while the Exaltations can handle the Wyld energies perfectly fine the Hosts are less able to which is where the Tattoos come into play. They'd keep the five Castes of course. Thoughts?

>>48819909
Why do they need to have moonsilver tattoos at all? It just needlessly contorts the entire enterprise of being a Lunar around making sure you get those tats so your Exaltation doesn't melt your face off, which in turn needlessly constrains the Lunar conceptual space.

>>48819929
You don't have to get them. It's your choice.

But that choice has consequences, like any other choice.

>>48819909

In my Lunar headcanon, the Lunars broke their castes themselves on purpose when the Solars fell. With the destruction of their social structure, they considered their castes outmoded, and no longer relevant to a life of guerilla fighters. They created new castes by fusing the Lunar bond into moonsilver, and inscribing it onto their bodies in a manner which described the new caste they were creating for themselves.

The three canonical castes are the ones the Silver Pact traditionally gives their operatives, but lone wolf Lunars might have a custom-made caste, and might even use a different technique to channel their exaltation into a caste (meditation, regular wyld exposure, artifice, living in a raw demesne, etc).

>>48819980
Yeah, the consequence of my face automatically melting off. Can't wait for the Sidereals to autodetonate if they go ronin and the DBs who aren't in the Realm to die of exposure or some stupid shit like that.

>>48819929
To combat slowly turning into a Chimera from the Wyld energy that their Exaltations now exude. It's pretty easy to just write that part off though and say they don't need though. I had though of Chimeraism to essentially replace the Great Curse for Lunars with gaining greater power for becoming more bestial in nature.

>>48819652
>The only thing that's concrete, IIRC, is that they're now ability based and that Shintai's are their thing.

I like the idea of having your Shintai be something you can pull out when you're going all out.

I have mixed feelings about them being ability based. On one hand it makes some things much easier. On the other hand It could take away a lot of their really cool abilities.

>>48819668
I liked her but what about her caused an uproar with SJWs?

>>48819997

I thought I heard somewhere that Chimeraism wasn't a thing in third, or that if it was, it was a legitimate playstyle choice, and not a metaphysical punishment for violating arbitrary thematics.

>>48820023
>I liked her but what about her caused an uproar with SJWs?

"Uproar" is putting it strongly.

One person made a thread complaining about "bikini witches" (the Infernal and the Lunar pics we've seen), and everyone else on the forums told them they were a little late to the game to be complaining about stuff like that.

>>48820072

More or less. Morke was considering making Chimerism less "you're a horrible monster" now and more just a social decision; some Lunars do it, some don't.

>>48820023
The casual nudity and harem of demons, I think. It was while back but I remember it causing a bit of a stir over on SV.
>>48820072
I think that'd be pretty cool. You get more power by going into Chimeraism but become less flexible as a result and, well, the physical mutations raising eyes wherever you go.

>>48820116
Probably, it was a while ago and I didn't really pay much attention to it beside skimming it over to get a chuckle or two.

>>48820135
>The casual nudity and harem of demons,

Her being Boss was what I liked about her.

>It was while back but I remember it causing a bit of a stir over on SV.

Oh that explains everything.

>>48820023

True, it'd take away a lot of their cool weird shit, and I was on the fence before as well, but consider this; Infernals could previously only favor two Yozi charm sets. This was okay at the start, when there were five Yozi to choose from which meant that, like Solars and Abyssals, they could favour two-thirds of what was available, but the introduction of the Kimbery charmset immediately revealed a massive flaw, introducing more Yozi would reduce the percentage you could favour, a bg deal considering that one of your two choices was dictated by your caste. the new ability paradigm will allow the devs to create charms for any Yozi they desire with no real ill effect (save perhaps charm bloat).

Besides, Sids have had weird shit in their Ability trees for ages. So we know it can work.

>>48820204
True.

I just want the fan made charms for Best Yozi Hegra to still fit when I try to import them into 3e.

>>48820116
>"Uproar" is putting it strongly.
"Uproar" might be an exaggeration, but I think I remember some people on RPG net threatening to cancel their Kickstarter pledges because the hastily sketched concept art of a character we wouldn't see for years was too sexy.

But that's RPG net.

So, per the combat builds thread on the Onyx Path forums, Black Claw style is presently the strongest duelist because of Doe Eyes Defense backing up the power of Dodge - it is really important not to miss often versus Dodge, and Black Claw can essentially ensure that you do.

This is unfortunate; I am currently in a small online Exalted game, playing mortal heroes yet-to-Exalt who have loosely allied through circumstance but are by no means of joined agenda. In particular, another character named Hunting Flower seems very likely to become the archetypical Black Claw courtesan-driven-by-rage and while her rivalry with my character, Temple to Flight, is casual at this point there are setting reasons I won't bore you with that strongly suggest one of us is going to have to kill the other at some point.

Given the shape of the game thus far, it's possible I will be alone in this, barring whatever NPCs I bring along to the fight. The other players are both less combative and less passionate than either of us and as far as I know they don't have reason to oppose me. But there's also not a lot I can offer them.

Normally I do my best to take my lumps, but if I'm being honest I never really looked at Doe Eyes Defense before and I think it's a little bullshit, JUSTIFYING MY REQUEST: as a mortal hero I'm not strictly bound to anything, Exaltation will let us bend our sheets as necessary. How do I construct a duelist who can stand up against a Black Claw stylist in a situation where they must aggress, preferably without losing the whole of my character into a bottomless well of murder proficiency?

>>48821527

Archery has penalty-negators that are cheaper than DED, so you can just punch right through it on cost. That's the simplest option, I think.

DED has an init cost, so things like e.g. Thunderclap Rush Attack might be able to help; anything that strips init without having to land an attack.

Undodgeable attacks will help, but are an expensive option compared to DED itself, so you'd have to hit hard with them

>>48821610
Thanks; I totally forgot about There Is No Wind, which has natural language that doesn't exactly imply it can cancel DED but something clearly needs to. You can use There Is No Wind with anything, right? As a reflexive it just negates penalties regardless of how you're actually attacking, Archery or otherwise?

>>48821880
>I totally forgot about There Is No Wind, which has natural language that doesn't exactly imply it can cancel DED but something clearly needs to

TINW cancels non-visual penalties, and Sight Without Eyes cancels visual peanlties (and is even cheaper), so in either case you're covered.

> You can use There Is No Wind with anything, right? As a reflexive it just negates penalties regardless of how you're actually attacking, Archery or otherwise?

>Reflexive Charms which create attacks generally do so with the Ability they belong to, unless the governing Ability can’t normally attack or unless otherwise noted. Reflexive Charms which enhance static values may generally only enhance static values deriving from their governing Ability, unless otherwise indicated. For example, Dipping Swallow Defense will only remove penalties from a Melee-based Parry attempt

No rule against it that I can see; ask your ST.

>>48820116
>"Uproar" is putting it strongly.
Not really. If anything, that's pretty high by the standards of "evil Social Justice Witches and their evil extremism". Any sort of complaint even vaguely touching on certain issues is just horribly offensive to some people, and those same people hate the concept of being offended and base their sense of superiority on a facade of emotionally invincible contemptuous detachment, so they tend to go on loud angry rants on how anyone who offends them is loud and angry and therefore subhuman.

>>48822005
Yes really, because there wasn't an uproar, there was one thread quickly shushed into silence. An uproar is very different from like two people who thought slutty decadent Infernal queens were too much.

There's nothing here for you to masturbate over except Basphomy-kun herself. Relax. No one in the Exalted fandom calls each other subhumans, not even the SJWs, it never happens in the first place, and especially didn't happen in this case. You're trapped in a cage of paranoid autism, a prisoner to your own melty-genes mind.

An uproar would be the panty-twisting that happened over the rape ghosts.

>>48822147
I still get rustled jimmies over that. If you actually read the charms i don't understand what sort of mental gymnastics gets you to rape ghosts.

>>48822116
>Yes really, because there wasn't an uproar,
Any sort of disapproval or disagreement qualifies as an "uproar" by the precedent that smuggernauts set with their use of the term. One thread that was shouted down is a full-blown war by their standards.

>Relax. No one in the Exalted fandom calls each other subhumans, not even the SJWs, it never happens in the first place, and especially didn't happen in this case. You're trapped in a cage of paranoid autism, a prisoner to your own melty-genes mind.
Oh, so you're a smuggernaut. That would explain why you're so insistent on protecting the party line. Though the immediate self-contradiction just then didn't do you any favors.

>>48822191
I can kinda understand people being too fucking illiterate to know "ravish" in the context of bodice-rippers (and to be totally fair, bodice-rippers are super-rapey, relying on a genre convention of "secretly she wants to be raped" as a masturbatory aid)...

...but what I can't understand is the part where people imagine a fucking ABYSSAL could be legitimately threatened in any way by GHOSTS MADE BY HER OWN CHARMS. There's no way the devs would ever have an Exalt getting chumped by the goddamn scenery. They're ghosts! You wear cities of the fuckers as a butt-plug!

>>48822191
Well, the fact that they literally force the victim to have sex or die would be one reason to call "rape". It's hard to get more rapey than that.

>>48822280
>precedent that
what is this nigger nonsense? swallow your tongue, no one set anything, let alone a precedent

>smuggernaut
not even a 30-year-old virgin could cast this meme magic with an ASF chance less than 100%. there are no smuggernauts either. there's just you, delaying your justified self-execution for no good reason.

>>48822319
Now THAT'S an uproar!

>>48822292
What I never understood was the asspain the morons got over an ABYSSAL using rape as a weapon.

These people are trying to destroy all of reality. Are there supposed to be lines they won't cross?

Celestial Exalts are just exigents of their patron Incarnae.

They were made to fight a war, but that was the purpose of their creator, not the reason they have the powers that they do

>>48822292
That's a different Charm.

The "rape ghosts" Charm is an Appearance-enhancer that as a downside created distracting scenery in the form of ravishing shades. They're an annoyance, not a threat.

The Charm you're thinking of is a social coup-de-grace that turns someone into a wandering succubus who has to commit sexual acts or "starve." That's not really rape, since nothing further (like who and how) is specified, you can go home and bang your spouse forever and live although probably that's not the extent of how fucked up it makes you, but we don't know.

The people who got upset are mostly the people who think that asexuals are real and not just autistic, the same people who go nuts over Rose-Lipped Seduction Style (not, you will note, gays for the most part; specifically the tiny but overrepresented in Exalted crowd of asexual-believers).

REGARDLESS OF ANY OF THIS, though, there is a fucking rule right in the core book that unequivocally states none of this bad shit can occur anywhere you have to hear about it without your express say-so.

It is literally impossible for rape to occur, in Exalted, without OOC consent.

>>48822283
>what I can't understand is the part where people imagine a fucking ABYSSAL could be legitimately threatened in any way by GHOSTS MADE BY HER OWN CHARMS.

I thought it was about the abyssal threatening others with rape?

>>48822384
No. Some people got confused. The ravishing shades don't obey you and harass YOU, not other people. The sex-or-die Charm doesn't force the target to have sex with you specifically. See >>48822383

>>48822341
>What I never understood was the asspain the morons got over an ABYSSAL using rape as a weapon.
Abyssals are the Death Exalted, not the Evil Exalted. Rape is the exact opposite of their job.

>>48822426
Abyssals are the Murder Exalted, not the Death Exalted.

Where do you guys get inspiration for your artifacts? I've been working on a 4-dot Reaper Daiklave for days for my Single-Point style-using Dawn Caste, and every version I end up with either leaves me unsatisfied (Too complex/gimicky or too simple) or rejected by my gm ("These are the kind of evocations you'd put on a goremaul, not a magical katana"). I've just hit a total a total creative dead-end at this point.

>>48822426
Womb-scarring abortion condoms aside, the Lover fucks Creation into ruin through the principle of chasing the dragon: incredible pleasure that can't be recaptured, every attempt only building a tolerance to further pleasure.

PROCREATION is the opposite of their job, but they probably have pretty easy access to self-sterilization.

>>48822464
Ask him what he thinks should be on a katana then anf go from there. Then kill yourself for having a magical katana

>>48822464
A REAL Solar uses Brawl or Melee, not that faggoty Sidereal hand waving bullshit.

>>48822445
>Abyssals are the Murder Exalted, not the Death Exalted.
That's an overly limiting and inconvenient way of looking at it. That aside, sexual assault is definitely not an inherent part of their thematics. Exalted may have "bad guy" factions, but "they're the bad guys so OF COURSE they do evil things and have evil powers" is exactly the wrong way of looking at them. They all have their own themes, and most of the evil ones are evil because those themes are inimical to humanity or Creation, not because being objectively evil is their fundamental nature.

>>48822495

>Having issues with magical katanas
>In exalted
>When there is an entire Iajutsu martial art.

You might be in the wrong thread mate.

>>48822522
Infernals are the Evil Exalted.

>>48822495
M8 let me have my weeaboo fantasy. I get tired of plotting and gritty reality after an endless slew of serious games and just want a junk food power fantasy.

>>48822512
Then where you do you get your inspiration for a REAL solar's daiklave?

>>48822445

What?

>>48822551
A giant lump of metal on a stick. It's powers are to make people die.

>>48822551
>Then where you do you get your inspiration for a REAL solar's daiklave?

Kingdom Hearts keyblades

>>48822464
>>48822551
Do you have a defined backstory in mind for your sword, or are you still trying to write one along with its Evocations?

I'd recommend thinking of a central theme for its powers, something a sword can't normally do that isn't just "sword better". Then build on that. Maybe have some special one-shot magical effect that happens when the blade is drawn, and let the player think of creative variations of that effect. Anime and manga tend to do this a lot, with every character having their own specific fighting style that contains many variations of a single concept, so that's a good source for inspirations.

What are your standards for "too complex/gimmicky" or "too simple"?

>>48822512
Nonsense! A real Solar gets to decide what a real Solar does!

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>>48822464
Ignore anything anyone tells you about anime or videogames or shitty fantasy novels.

Tell a small, concise Exalted story in your head. It should be like a character pitch, but less background and more middle and ending. Three lines should do it. Then, work that story into a little Charm tree and an attunement bonus and you're completely done.

Example: Once there was a young smith who fell in love with the daughter of a ghost. He journeyed far and wide to forge a blade that would meet her bride-price. On the day of his wedding, he realized that he had sold his true love for nothing more than a woman, and took his life with his cherished blade.

Attunement: something that increases Resolve (by 1) situationally and gives you some benefit representing clarity when people try to social you in combat time.

Charm 1:

Dull the effect of unwanted Intimacies for a small concurrent accuracy boost.

Charm 2:

Supplemental. If you cut someone with Appearance below your Resolve, they lose a point of Willpower. If you cut someone with equal or higher Appearance than your resolve, you gain a point of Willpower. Once per scene.

Charm 3:

Permanent. Gain benefits to disengage or contest a disengage; benefits are stronger against opponents you feel nothing towards. No initiative loss/bonus initiative gained if you have decreased a relevant Intimacy in the same scene.

Charm 4:

Enhances Charm 1; costs Willpower; destroy offending Intimacy, take a level of aggravated damage, opponents to whom the Intimacy applied suffer phantom onslaught penalties against your attacks. These are visually-present phantoms numbered equal to the value of the Intimacy, and can be vanished one stunt at a time by opponents.

>>48822464
Typically from my dreams, but I have weird-ass dreams and my players/characters are typically Sidereals, so there's that.

>>48822596
>Nonsense! A real Solar gets to decide what a real Solar does!
Congratulations, you have passed the test.

>>48822596
>Do you have a defined backstory in mind for your sword, or are you still trying to write one along with its Evocations?
The latter, at the moment, though that might be why I'm burning myself out.

The most recent incarnation I had of it was a blade made made by a first-age exalt famous for lavish parties, who had gradually grown desensitized to everything he enjoyed, and set out to create the perfect brew. He forged the blade in a drunken stupor of an adventure on the quest. It had a bunch of shit that involved mitigating the effect of poisons on you, spreading afflictions to others, and a final sort of "one moment of clarity" attack, that couldn't be used again unless the wielder found a new intoxicating substance he had never experienced. I ended up throwing that one out because the whole "drunken brawler" thing was too strong an image contrasting with how I was planning on playing the character and felt really gimmicky to me.


>>48822609
>Tell a small, concise Exalted story in your head. It should be like a character pitch, but less background and more middle and ending. Three lines should do it.
That's a good idea. I'm sure I've got some odd little campaign arc I never ended up using during my days as a foreverdm that I can turn into something like that.

>>48822292
I am absolutely fine with Abyssals having rape charms, even more when they are thematically sound (rape ghost ravishing your soul is thematically sound). They same way I am perfectly fine with Lunars having bestiality charms. Exalted never shied away from sex, and as long as it isn't immature and baseless, I'm fine with it.

>>48822740
>The latter, at the moment, though that might be why I'm burning myself out.
Well, the point of Evocations is to build upon an artifact which is a vital part of who your character is, so I'd recommend writing the weapon's story in a way that thematically complements your own Solar's personal story. Perhaps it has some connection to a past incarnation, or a place where a past incarnation had done some great deed. The blade's previous wielder might have had a similar story to your own character, and/or have made a certain choice at a critical moment when you would do the opposite.

>>48822859
>The blade's previous wielder might have had a similar story to your own character, and/or have made a certain choice at a critical moment when you would do the opposite.
Ooh, I really like that idea. Thanks.

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>>48822464
You take a sword or a concept your really like from anime or videogame or shitty fantasy novels, and then you create a small, concise Exalted story in your head. Then you create your sword.

SCYTHE OF MIRACLE:
Once, a nameless Solar sorceress sought the ultimate Truth at the center of everything. This was difficult, because many lesser truths obscured it - so she forged a scythe of starmetal and soulsteel, and on this scythe, she sacrificed many truths.

The truth of her love with her lunar spouse, the truth of her grandiose workings. The truth of her history, the truth of her knowledge, and when finally, she sacrificed her own name to the scythe, she disappeared never to be seen.

The Scythe of Miracle can absorb magic, cancel charms and thaumaturgy, and make people fumbles more when trying. For the ultimate truth of this scythe is that there is no miracles, no magic, and this truth has its own power.

>>48822916
I'd let you do this for exactly four sessions, after which I'd have you manipulated into a situation where you'd swear to use only your scythe in some honorable raksha duel and then have the scythe stolen and sent to Hell, let the other PCs chase after it for you, then distract them with the plot so that you're left to die full of unfinished ambitions.

>>48802411
I am in need of information, anyone willing to explain what happened to the lore/fluff in 2E? I found a big bung of Exalted 2E for really cheap but remembered hearing months ago the lore/fluff got not good

>>48823153

Fetishistic explanation of every mystery in the setting. Reiterating every bit of 1E lore with more detail and less excitement. Excessive focus on the First Age and related concepts. Flattening the Primordials into simplistic archetypes in order to make them "fit" as individual actors. Plus the usual WW bungles (flanderizing Desus from an Odysseus reference into something that wouldn't be out of place in a fucking Goblins comic; letting them talk about sex or children, ever, for any reason; etc.)

>>48823153
Too many mysteries without answer. Too many things introduced from 1E lore, sometimes with no many details. Excessive focus on Malfeas. Too many charms and concepts for the Primordials, making them difficult to correctly portray.

>>48822979
what

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>>48822916
>Can as well put the evocations

Denial of Miracles:
Req: Essence 2
Keyword: Decisive-only, Supplemental

There is no miracles in the end - only entropy, and death. Everything else is a lie, an illusion that will be broken on the sad truth embodied by the scythe that knows miracles don't happen.

This Charm can be used to supplement a decisive attack against a thaumaturge or sorcerer. If the attack do at least 1 damage to their health track, some of their occult knowledge is stripped down. The attacker rolls its (Essence) dices. Each success can be used to remove knowledge of spells and rituals. First circle spells and thaumaturgic rituals costs one success each to be removed, while second circle spells cost two successes, and third circle spells cost three successes. Rituals are first stripped down (randomly), then first circle spells, second circle, and finally third circle spells.

Mortals are stripped down of their magic permanently and need to learn them back the hard way, but Exalts can roll (Willpower) every day to regain their knowledge at the same rate of their loss (1 success for a ritual or first circle spell, etc).

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>>48824177
There Is No Happy Endings:
Req: Essence 3, Denial of Miracles
Cost: 20 motes, 1 wp

The Scythe of Miracles knows that there is no happy endings, for they would need a miracle to come. And what are miracles if not a hopeless dream?

Taking the scythe in hand and rising it in the air, the Solar boldly makes the proclamation that this course of action won't have an happy ending. The shadow of a dragon suddenly comes forth from the scythe as the curse takes hold, and everyone feels the truth in her words.

For the remainder of the scene, any 1 rolled by anyone that was present during the proclamation removes two successes to the roll. Additionally, if there is a 1 to the roll and the roll fails, it counts as a critical fail.

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>>48824257
The Scythe That Reap From Fate:
Req: Essence 5, There Is No Happy Endings
Cost: 1m, 1wp
Duration: Instant or Scene long

Sharp is the Scythe of Miracle, for she reap fate and magic alike. As a flaming bird comes forth, it is cut in two by a truth far stronger that it ever was.

This evocation works like Six-Demon Scabbard Binding, but is not limited to warping, twisting or shaping effects that alter the owner, and can be used to negate any magical effect, charms or spells currently in action. It can even be used to cancel sorcerous working, though in that case the action becomes scene long and the charm needs to be applied several time as the scythe hacks away the strand of magic holding everything together. In any case, cutting a sorcerous working is always dangerous, and the backslash of sorcerous energy can create storms, meteors, explosions, shaping effects, curses, and whatever the ST deems appropriate in that moment.

>>48824177
>>48824257
>>48824378
Those are probably not balanced at all and mechanically stupid, but well.

>>48824383

You're homebrewing for Exalted. Unbalanced and mechanically stupid is our baseline here.

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Solar fashion. How much is too much?

>>48822464
I did a reaper daiklave a while back for my Single Point stylist. I could post the sheet for its Evocations if you want it, but here's my quick design notes from doing it:

1) Your primary weakness is accuracy (and, by extension, clashes). Peer level opponents can absolutely match and beat you here. The only reaper daiklave in the core has, as its attunement bonus, an accuracy booster variant (aiming gives a free full defense), and two of its four Charms tank a target's defense. I wouldn't do a straight accuracy booster like ES but something like those is cool.

2) FSF/LSF mean you will be very often 1HKO'ing people, and that a decisive that doesn't kill your target can really mess with your rhythm. So avoid stuff like Spring Razor's poisons. Single Point does an insane amount of damage when you're actually trying, and as such, any decisive-booster should do something other than just damage/debuffs (e.g. Cold Moon Slash lets you attack at range).

>>48822495
>telling him to commit sudoku over a magic katana
>in exalted, a setting partially based on eastern mythology
>during a period when swords are most certainly still the most widespread way to kill people
What do you use in your games? Guns? Swords that don't make sense because a culture wouldn't have them? Good luck finding a German-style zweihander in a setting that (to my knowledge) has no Germany-proxy.

>>48825118
Hey, here's why they use a sword: swords are good. Exalted cultures aren't mirror images of Earth ones, you can put a zweihander in the setting and it's fine. They've got articulated plate, after all, zweihanders are perfectly appropriate.

>>48824610
Well, your picture seems about right. Lots of gold (or orichalcum), gaudy, flashy, absolutely demanding attention. Impractical looking and very revealing (even on dudes), to the point where fighting in it would appear to be horrendously impractical, if not completely impossible (even though it's not, because Solars).

>>48825158
I wasn't saying there was a problem with swords. I was saying that in a heavily Eastern-influenced game, bashing on someone for having a katana makes no sense.

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>>48824610
There is no 'too much'.

Nor is there 'too little'.

>>48824610
>>48825171

Funny enough, not a single Solar I've played or made ever looked like that. Even powerful and established ones - they were typically ascetics (or at least, very austere in terms of attire), vagabonds, or pretending to be locals and thus wore whatever was inconspicuous. Even the openly Solar ruler of his own Empire, "ruled" out of a cave with unworked walls and rarely had anything more than a kilt on.

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>>48825347
What, like a peasant? How uncouth.

>>48825347
Well, of course! Solars can't wear what Solars would normally wear in the current setting because they'd get curbstomped by Wyld Hunts, and they need those resources for their empire(s). But back in the First Age, when Solars could afford their own fashion, this is what it looked like.

>>48825403
What is the most expensive material one can make a dress of? The ultimate fashion statement that you're large and in charge, even if the dress is reserved?

>>48825451
Unobtainium

>>48825451

In Exalted? Likely Starmetal, the stuff is so rare that every artefact made with it is made in the most minimalist manner possible.

>>48825451
Depends on how you're trying to look in charge. An Eclipse Caste would probably have rare and expensive resources from as many places as possible, to show off how many political/trade alliances they have. Their dress would be a map to all the places they have trade agreements in, and how profitable those are.
A Dawn Caste would most likely have a garment that tells tales of their conquests- perhaps even incorporating parts from great enemies they've killed. It would also function as armor in a pinch.
A Night Caste's garb would probably be notable in that it wouldn't be notable at all. Just a normal, standard suit/dress that always seems to blend in with the ones around it.
Zenith Caste would probably incorporate an overwhelming amount of orichalcum, as well as lots of Unconquered Sun symbology.
And Twilght Caste Would probably just show off by crafting the craziest dress they could. Color change, automatically resizes to the wearer, comfortable in all climates, possibly even pockets that are bigger on the inside, etc. And entirely made out of things that are borderline impossible to weave with- metals, stones, etc.
Of course, in the end it all comes down to character- some characters will show off their wealth, others will show off skills, and others will simply try to go unnoticed.

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>Fiend wants to run 2.5 game
>Whatever
>Wait it's actually been years since I played it

how do I make a full moon lunar that won't be shit? Help, it's been so long since i've made a character.

>>48826930
>Lunar
>not shit

Pick one.

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>>48826983
plz there has to be something I can do. I don't want to play a solar, I just want to play a lunar for once.

>>48827004
Go with as many knacks as you can, and take Heart's Blood at 5 for a fuckton of forms.

>>48826930
I can help with this, but first question is, how much cheese?

Tyrant Lizard totems?
Stealth and size stacking?
Poison?

Max Dex and everything that buffs Dex (Devastating Ogre Enhancement) is usually a good start.

>>48827120
I'm not looking to make a totally busted character, someone who can keep up with solars in some capacity combat wise. It's a north centric game so was thinking of going with a totem native to that region, maybe a giant fucking bear or something but i'm open to that. DBT, size, general lunar fuckery, i'm open to anything as long as it's stronk.

>>48826930
>2.5
>Lunar

HYBRID BODY REARRANGEMENT.
HYBRID BODY REARRANGEMENT.
HYBRID BODY REARRANGEMENT.

Seriously, that thing is awesome after errata. It pretty much single-handedly propels shapeshifting to being actually good.

> Replace the text of the Knack with the following:
> A dedicated Lunar can learn to change just part of his body to gain some special benefit or attack. The character may transform part of her body, producing any mutation she desires, so long as the mutation is based on her spirit shape or a shape in her heart’s blood library. Producing a pox or deficiency costs 1m, an affliction or debility costs 2m, a blight or deformity costs 3m, and an abomination costs 4m. These motes are not committed, the Lunar may simultaneously wear as many mutations as she wishes, and the mutations last as long as the Lunar desires. Such mutations do not recede when the character’s anima flares to the 8m+ level.

NOT COMMITTED. ANY NUMBER OF MUTATIONS.

Heart's Blood 4+ (but don't spam Knacks, >>48827057 is lying) and you can justify taking pretty much every mutation ever printed, when you want, for as long as you want.

Hello, soak and damage and natural attacks and tentacles and PERMANENT, COMMITMENT-FREE FLIGHT (wing type of your choice) and a whole load of other goodies.

>>48826930
>Lunar

You can't. 2e Lunars are literal garbage.

>>48827167
>I'm not looking to make a totally busted character
>someone who can keep up with solars in some capacity combat wise

Mutually exclusive. Go busted or go home.

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>>48818501

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>>48827185
post errata HBR does seem really good.

>>48827238
I'm willing to go busted, I guess it just depends on the concept of busted? I'm just really wanting to play a lunar and trying to make the best of what seems to be a less than good character option. Which probably just makes me a huge faggot.

>>48827189
80% of their charmset is, if not quite garbage, then at least Solar knockoffs with 1m surcharge. But among that remaining 20% they have the important combat things like surprise negator, perfect defense, unfooable attacks, which is more than DBs have, so Lunars as a whole are certainly not garbage.

>>48827167
Giant bear is a good choice. The thing about 2e Lunars is that all the incentive is on you to get the biggest, asskickest totem you can, because spirit shape beats regular shapeshifting for large animals but is tied for small animals.

Lightning Stroke Attack is high Essence, but ganks anyone who didn't bring a perfect defense. Put it on a shopping list.


Depending on your ST's willingness to put up with nonconventional combat, you may have a massive advantage in your easy access to flight compared to pretty much every other splat type. (See HBR guy.) Bow or other ranged attack (quills, poison spit, dragon breath, lotsa stuff available) can default out a win in lots of combats against people who didn't bring their own flight. Just hang in the sky and pelt them to death.
If they have ranged weapons, you still probably win because you have Halting the Scarlet Flow and they don't.

The soak charms may actually be good. 2.5 is spoken of as this nightmare optimization dystopia where DV is everything and soak is nothing, but in practice, deathtouch is in fact not universal. You can get 30+ soak, 15hl and passive regeneration for half your starting charms as a Lunar, which lets you beef through against a lot of stabby builds. (Always take the four -2 levels over the two -1 levels.) Expect _some_ bad touch and deathtouch and get shaping and other keyword defenses, but also be aware that you can run away. Which brings me to...

Humble Mouse Shape and Emerald Grasshopper Form. You can turn into a literal fly, then hide behind blades of grass or in the other guy's hair. Easier to run away, surprise attack, poison sting, etc.

>>48827410
>Humble Mouse Shape and Emerald Grasshopper Form.

More because character limit.

Exalted is not clear on how size interacts with other things. Size is implemented as "mutations", and pretty much every one has its own special snowflake rules. See if you can get your ST to standardize on something along the lines of "larger sizes get +str +stam -DV -stealth, smaller sizes get the opposite" scaling to size categories like in D&D. Then go big for smashy and go small for assassin.

Because you can be a really good assassin with this stuff, really easily. You took HBR, right? Mutations available include "chameleon", which is free stealth dice. Stack them on top of size, then throw in your regular Stealth ability and excellency.

And then even if the other guy spots you with glorious solar awareness, YOU'RE A FLY. Or a tick, or a mite, or whatever. Hiding in plain sight by virtue of being unremarkable; hiding behind an ear which now provides full cover.

There also exist mutations like "inexhaustible". Seriously, spend a while leafing through mutations.

And then, if you want to be generous to the rest of the party (and they can put up with some skeeviness, since this involves drinking blood), consider eventually getting Lunar Blood Shaping Technique, which lets you lend other people your forms for a while - or with HBR, your mutations. But mind that only one person can be using a form at once, so hunt plenty of birds.

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>>48827410
>>48827556
Thanks for the advice. Like I said, I know it's sort of an uphill fight but for the most part the group isn't powergamers, so I just want to paly something not solary and fun.

Not quite sure how i'll build him yet, probably just a fuckoff sized grand daiklave and take your advice into consideration. Are the relentless lunar fury charms still worth taking? I'm not sure how much I want to rely on soak, but it is a potential method of defense, i'll admit. I generally prefer not to get hit, though because of bad/death touch style effects. But for the most part i want to get at least a little creative combat wise. Wings, speed, shapeshifting mutations and just being unstoppable are all things I do enjoy.

Wasn't there a complete Lunar homebrew remake? Argent Witches or something? I have no idea if it's any good but you could look into using that instead of the base Lunar.

>>48826930
Here's how to make Lunar best character:

1. Get the Troll of Heroes and turn to page 136.
2. Take Hybrid Body Rearrangement.
3. Manifest Essence Abundance.
4. Goto 3.

Don't actually do this, because it will get you banhammered if your ST has the smallest amount of clue and spine. Essence Abundance is supposed to be god-bloods only, it is not supposed to be a mutation it just got jury-rigged into that system, and it is not supposed to stack.

>>48827708
Take Wolf's/Gazelle's/Cheetah's pace for speed.
Note that Cheetah's Pace has drawback: it says you run on all fours as a quadruped and can't hold things in your hands while going at max speed.
But you're a Lunar, so you can take Extra Arms/Extra Legs and fuck that noise.

>>48827717
Ah, it was called Terrifying Argent Witches.

>>48827768
OBTW that last mutation itself is called "Multiple Limbs" in the corebook p290, it just has modes for arms/legs/heads.

And a general note from the errata, which is relevant to Hybrid Body Rearrangement stuff:
> Stackable mutations such as Toxin and Multiple Limbs may apply their benefits no more than the character’s (Essence rating) times. Any additional applications of such mutations are merely cosmetic. This does not apply to mutations which become different mutations upon being purchased multiple times, such as Wolf’s Pace or Large.

>>48827708
>Are the relentless lunar fury charms still worth taking?
Ehhh, I guess so, I never found them worth bothering because of the fiddliness. RLF is a necessity if you want to max your dicepool because of its raise to Excellency cap, but I still never really liked it - the social restrictions, the short duration, the willpower cost. I preferred long-term and indefinite buffs and the ability to lurk and wait and pick my time rather than rage out right the fuck now. YMMV.

>>48827858
Yeah, it's a lot of commitment for short term benefits combat wise. I do hate that 2e lunars still have so many charm taxes, damn. I'll still probably pick it up.

I might just go with foe cleaving halberd for an artifact weapon.

>>48827708
>I'm not sure how much I want to rely on soak, but it is a potential method of defense, i'll admit. I generally prefer not to get hit, though because of bad/death touch style effects.
Lunars get passive regeneration, active healing, best soak, ability to nonperfectly soak down to 1d ping, best mobility, and best OBT. Try being a soakmonster - you may be pleasantly surprised by how little you actually need in the way of DV and keyword defenses and the like. Because:
-Lunar tats protect against all enemies trying to physically Shape or warp you, not just the Wyld
-Crippling is much less of a threat since a) you can mutate up extras/replacements in the short term, and b) your warform regenerates like fucking Wolverine to recover lost body parts in the long term
-Another large category of "bad touch" is actually just "bad damage" like Green Sun Nimbus Flare: if it deals damage, it deals more damage. You're already well protected against both halves of that.
-combat transparency gives you a chance to activate PDs when you see bad touch coming OOC.

You still don't want to face the horror of Neverborn without mental keyword defenses, and this won't save you from Chungira who has cheap and optional late-step bad touch, but short of that tier? I've seen a 100xp soakbeast Full Moon beat the stuffing out of a 200xp Dawn Caste Sword Princess in 2.5e. The Dawn hit the Moon a lot more often than the reverse; but the Dawn took *lasting* damage and the Moon didn't. Hungry Tiger Technique by itself still got reduced to ping and regenerated for free a round later, while Full Solar Doomcombo lost on mote-attrition.

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>>48828071
Those are good points, I did honestly forget the tats prevent more than just wyld shaping effects. I guess i'll look through the stamina charms and look for the good soak ones. It's been a while so i'm pretty fucking rusty on what charms are worth taking.

Idle commentary on roleplaying option I did once:

As a Lunar with Hybrid Body Rearrangement, you have a great ability to briefly "job" or "heel" and build the reputation of the other party members by posing as Monster of the Week with multiple, easily replaceable monster identities. (This works best if you are a socialite or sage or something yourself and have an excuse for not showing up to the Fight of the Week when otherwise travelling with the party.)

Turn into a regular animal like a horse. Throw on a bevy of mutations like Serpent Body and Spider Legs and Chameleon and Acid Pustules and Large and Hideous Maw and so on and so on to become an unrecognizable horrid monster. Hide out somewhere nearby. Wait for travellers to stumble on you. Lightly maul and terrify them. When news of the Monster of the Week gets back to town, the rest of the party can boldly ride out to have an epic and very cinematic pre-scripted monster fight with you.

>>48828218
This is devious. I like it.

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>>48828218
If people start asking why there's a sudden plague of monsters popping up every week, I'll just blame the evil sorcerer Oggbad the Foul for summoning them, shall I? And if they ask about the convenient coincidence of us arriving simultaneously with the monsters, clearly we've been on the trail of Oggbad, chasing him for weeks, and it was only natural we'd catch up to him as soon as he stopped fleeing and settled down to begin his vile machinations again.

And you can totally be a fighter type and pull this off. Just be seen riding out with the party to the monster lair, then get lost and separated and scream for help once you're at enough distance to change. Then crawl out of the crevice you were hiding in or something after the fight, appropriately wounded from your earlier encounter before the cavalry came.

Bump in the wake of the Lunar. New thread time soon?

For each of the five Solar castes, what type of event do you think would Exalt them, and what would it look like?

>>48832477
That isn't really how it works.

Not all Dawns exalt in a moment of battle; all Dawns are people who are great warriors/tacticians/etc. The two tend to correlate only because the types of people who become Dawns tend to already be damn good in a fight.

>>48832522
What in my post suggested to the contrary?

>>48832557
>For each of the five Solar castes, what type of event do you think would Exalt them,

This part, which pretty firmly suggests you're looking for a caste - Exaltation moment causality.

The event is tied to you as an individual; what event catalyzes your personal potential into heroism.

Perfect Soul Exalted when she challenged Conky's virtue. That would've happened whether she became a Dawn, Zenith, Twilight, or Eclipse.

>>48832557
The point is that there is no definitive 'this is how this Caste Exalts'. If the event is vaguely suited to the themes of that Caste, then it works.

>>48832652
>>48832661
What I meant was, in a typical example of a caste (a Dawn who is a fighter/general type, an Eclipse who is a diplomat, etc), what type of event would Exalt them?

Elitism hurts the community. It is better to have fun answering a question than to take any opportunity you can to put down and lecture other people for having inferior knowledge and opinions to you.

>>48833031

The point of comparison I usually make is "At what point did Tony Stark become Iron Man? That's the event where he Exalted as a Twilight."

Or any other cape you care to think of where they started as a dook and became a hero.

>>48833436
Tony Stark become Iron Man in that cave. When he made the decision to fight instead of give up.

And that's going be true for most Solars. Fighting even in the face of almost certain defeat.

So, /tg/ I has a question.

Which makes for a more interesting character

>Solar Exalts and his DB lover decides to follow him, becoming his second in command
>Solar Exalts and his DB lover turns on him, forcing him to kill her

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>>48833586
I'm a sap for romance so I prefer the former. But the latter plays up the more tragic nature of exalted if you wanna swing that way.

Hey guys working on an Evocation for Artifact Heavy Armor, currently thinking of burning 5i for the armor's Hardness to increase by one, up to 5 times, scene long. So that'd be 25i you'd have to burn to get from Hardness 10 to 15, currently does that cost make sense? Didn't really have a good basis to judge the costs by so I feel like I'm playing it safe with 5i/hardness but nothing really gives stacking Hardness so I'm not even sure on that.

>>48833689
Yeah, I think I'll kill her off.

From a mechanics standpoint, it does give me 4 more BP.

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>>48833904
>asks about story
>Wants mechanical benefits from it

>>48833919
Nah, I didn't want it, I'm just saying that doing so returned 4BP.

I was willing to pay for her existence in the first place.

>>48833904
>>48833919
A Dragon-Blooded with a few Charms is definitely worth four BP.

>>48834541
It'll be easier on our ST if he doesn't have to deal with multiple DBs, cause someone else has one too.

>>48834673
Can you contrive for it to be the same DB? Alternately: play their DB and have them play yours.

>>48834687
Nope, our characters are from different Houses and all. Tepet(them) and Iselsi(me).

>>48834737

So? It's not like you and your lover couldn't have been Romeo-and-Julieting it up before Exaltation.

>>48833436
That's a pretty good analogy.