Imperium Asunder

>>48702823
>>48702823
Previous Thread

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bumpu

>>48738802
I just noticed the techpriest on the bottom. Is he collecting chaos marine helmets?

>>48739252
I think he's recovering geneseed

>>48737560
I laughed

So, before doing rules for Xun, I'm thinking of doing the LA Sky Serpents, since Xun is going to be the sort to buff them. So

>LA Sky Serpents
>Coils of the Serpent: Everything gets scout
>Claws of the Serpent: melee buff- rage?
>Scales of the Serpent: At least half of your army must have an AV value.
(The idea with that one is that it encourages players to buy dedicated transports without causing problems for ambush and siege scenarios.)

>Legion Armory
Flames of the Serpent: Any squad may upgrade their bolters to volkite cavaliers? The assault one for +3? Points per model.

Legacy of Tepectitlan: Special melee weapons
Power Macahuitl: +1S AP2 2-handed? Or +2S AP 3 2 handed?
Power glaive-- just like white scars
Jade Empire Jian
Lightning Claws
Maybe both of these grant access to fighting styles

>Information dominance
Let you mess with reserve rolls as an upgrade to a vehicle with a transport capacity. Different sizes cost more take up more space, but do more.


>Sorcerors Supreme: Like WB burning lore, but with Fulgurite, Technomantic, and Librarius schools.
There's a reason those are space marine power trees, afterall.

Consul type: librarian/vigilator type deal.

>>48739764
Thinking Xun will get a rule that lets him hit you every time you miss him in CC.

Also ML5, harnessing on a 3+? However he rolls his powers from Fulgurite, Technomancy, Librarius, and Divination, since those are the big ones in his legion. Again, since he's part of the group that invents the Librarius, it makes sense that he'd get those powers. He still has to roll for them, though-- no choosing.

For a small point cost, you can upgrade him to also get Sanctic and Adamantium Will. I think every psyker in the legion can do that to represent anti-daemon training after the heresy hits and they can cast safely.

Based on Anshul, Xun has more limited powers and is a bit more reliable with them, but Anshul has more power. Kinda captures the differences in their treatment of the warp.

>>48740667
>Adamantium Will
all primarchs have this

>>48740667
So thinking of having fighting styles for Xun, Champions and Praetors who take the legion specific weapons/pay a few points, they'll get fancy names later:

Reactive: Trade some number of attacks to get a hit for every time someone misses in CC, maybe buff WS by 1?
Let's say I halve the number of attacks someone gets, so a mirror match means that normally 1/2 attacks hit, 1/2 wound. So it averages out to be slightly in the Sky Serpent's favor, but is nowhere near as strong as the reroll to-hit in CC that some legions get natively without the need for an upgrade.

Debuff: -1 to some stat for every unsaved wound, because the Sky Serpent in question is using techniques to break limbs or hitting pressure points

Flurry of Blows: +1 Attack or +2 Attacks?


Xun will use these or have slightly powered up versions. Still thinking over the legion buffs, probably a melee buff, something to screw with your enemy's reserves, some general legion USR, some rule to make makes seeker squads and terminators troops?
Probably has a pet Mastadon or Thunderhawk to ride around in that you can buy for + a whole bunch of points.

I'm thinking he's going to look a lot like Horus or Robot Gorillaman or Alpharius, Probably can choose his WT from the Strategic Table.

>>48740838
Whoops. Good point. In his case, then maybe a +1 to Deny the Witch. Something to represent that he's getting better equipped to fight Chaos.

Do we really need to do stats right now? I mean, we're not done fluffing everything up, and who's going to play using these, anyways?

>>48741731
Probably not, but I'm not going to lie, I'm going to paint up some dudes as Sky Serpents and run them with Deathwatch rules to represent a hunter cadre.
Also, LA rules did help me pin down the aspects to focus on with the legion.

Though I also have some prompts I want to respond to, but first errands.

>>48741731
I think people are just having a bit of fun with it. It's a nice way to get across some of your fluff ideas.

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I feel like there should be a mesoamerican looking daemon of some kind, maybe multiple, trying to use the Jade Empire's relatively broad faith and the general difficulty of communication between planets to spread its cult through the Crusader State.

[REDACTED] puts a bolter to your head and demands that you choose a 90s song that fits your legion thematically! Quick, there's not much time, what do you choose?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGtCf4wwj3g

>>48742444
The 9 Lords of the Underworld from the Popul Vuh might work.

>>48742566
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mr_uHJPUlO8

>>48742566
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Uc3ZrmhDN4

>>48742768
On a related note, an Aztec lord of the underworld, Mictlan, is depicted as a skeleton with rotting flesh still on him.
Mictlan means place of the dead, while the Maya called it Xibalba, the place of fear.
So I think using them as daemon names would be relatively faithful to the original material, since they were at least as nasty as the grim reaper.

There's also a Macau who's name I forget who was the false sun in the Popul Vuh. He gets his lower jaw ripped off and replaced with a hand, so you can just imagine how creepy an avian daemon form with hands and arms extending from where it's jaw should be would be.
Ah, Vucub Caqix, and his sons Zipacna and Cabrakan, associated with earthquakes. All three were considered daemons.

It might make sense to have Vucub as a Greater daemon of Tzneetch behind it.

This said, the name means 7 Macau, so it may be less suitable.

>>48743236
Damn it, forgot name.

>>48743242
Who were the twins that killed that bird dude in Mayan mythology?

>>48742566

Angels of Light:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VCdJyOAQYM

Bloodhounds:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qkuu0Lwb5EM

Warp Raiders:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mbBbFH9fAg

>>48742566
One for Gengrat

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Et9b7LWfnxQ

>>48743309
Hun Ahpu 'one hunter' and Xbalanque (something about a jaguars, I think)
Hun can also be spelled Xun depending on the romanization.

>>48741731
The idea was to encouage people to try and refine peoples ideas. If for example you had to make a model with rules, I reasoned that people would need to write up only the most important aspects of their character.

The idea fell apart when people started posting random T10 and infinitely regenerating IWND monsters.

>>48743972
Wait, how can you infinitely regenerate with IWND? It gives you back a wound a turn at most. It's not like FNP where you negate a wound immediately if you pass your check.

One wound back every turn is actually pretty easy to cut through with enough killy. There are canon Primarchs that could do it. There's weaker things that could do it, like a ton of Kabalites with splinter weapons.

>>48743972
It makes a lot of sense to me. Maybe we should try it with Legion Astartes rules?
Though if people aren't familiar with the HH rule set and balance that would explain the weird results, for instance the guy who projected an aura of immune to psychology, a WHFB thing.

>>48743554
Jaguar Sun, Hidden Sun, or Jaguar Deer, depending on who you're asking.

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Balthasar Draft #2, Now with 6 toughness, no Mastery Levels, and guaranteed infinite bloodletters forever!

The idea being that he rampages through your weaker dudes, slaughtering them and turning them into his own daemons until you manage to put him down. Against an Ork Army he'd wreck face, but against a primarch or other high-value deathstar, he'd lose.

>>48744071
>You roll 1 IWND roll per wound lost.
not one per turn

>>48744441
>>48744128
>>48744071
>>48744486
Lets all remember that this is just an exercise in fleshing out characters. Whilst an aspect of realism and gameplay is 100% good. We shouldnt get too caught up in balancing models we'll never play.

I think its best to just use this to compare the relative power levels / combat abilties of each.

>>48744486
Yeah, no.

>At the end of each of your turns, roll a D6 for each of your models with this special rule
that has less than its starting number of Wounds or Hull Points, but has not been
removed as a casualty or destroyed. On a roll of 5+, that model regains a Wound, or Hull
Point, lost earlier in the game.

Each model gets one IWND per turn, otherwise Smashfucker would be even more ridiculous.

>>48744546
Which makes me think a good Rubinek special rule might be 'Rubinek may continue to make IWND checks even if he has been reduced to 0 wounds.' sort of like reanimation protocol but he can even come back several turns later. Combined with 2+ though it'd be too much.

>>48744486
That's not at all how IWND works.

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>>48743242
>On a related note, an Aztec lord of the underworld, Mictlan, is depicted as a skeleton with rotting flesh still on him.
>Mictlan means place of the dead, while the Maya called it Xibalba, the place of fear.

This is actually what I was thinking of.

Redone Rubinek. Toned down his regenerative abilities and merged the Nihil Cannon/Fangs into one weapon for crowd control. His Gaze of Destruction is now his shooty means of singling out one target for concentrated dose of fuck you.

By the way, do you guys see a maul as his weapon? I was torn between that and a pair of power fists. He seems like the sort for blunt instruments. What do you guys see as his weapon of choice?

>>48739549
Why would AdMech want to retrieve geneseed from Iron Warriors? Weren't they declared traitorus excommunicate which means doing anything except incineration to the corpses is a big no-no?

>>48744887
He's a loose canon, but he gets the job done.

PROMPT:

>Tell us about the primarch's Equerry: His closest council within the legion, his strongest warriors, and his best captains. What is this group called? Who are its members, and what are they like individually? Do any of them have famous deeds worth mentioning? If the primarch is unavailable (or dead) who is his second in command?

>>48744526
>Lets all remember that this is just an exercise in fleshing out characters.
Personally I just think making up rules is good clean fun.

On a minor tangent, how would you guys feel about trying to put together a PDF like the Dornian Heresy did?

>>48746142
>Baqar Hadbaal, First Captain of the 13th, The Storm Wolf
When the 13th Legion, then known by many names was reunited with Xun Tohilcoatl, it was Baqar Hadbaal who then commanded the legion.
Hadbaal was an efficient commander who had earned the name The Storm Wolf for his vicious encirclement tactics. The legion of his day struck hard and aggressively, and with a cunning that belied the savage trappings of their recruitment worlds.
In Baqar, Xun found a capable subordinate, able to coordinate legion campaigns. Baqar's technical expertise greatly aided Xun in his reorganization and Xun taught Baqar something of state craft, though Baqar personally preferred the life of a warlord.
After a time, Baqar was given a fleet of his own and given licence to conquer, with Xun reportedly saying "I would like to keep you at my side, but then, what would I do?"
Baqar's fleet served happily alongside fleets of the Warhawks legion, Void Lords, and Behemoth Guard during the later half of the Great Crusade, though he chafed under the leadership of Alexios during the Plaakat Compliance.
When the heresy broke out, Baqar's fleet was deep in Segementum Pacificus and the saga of his campaigns behind enemy lines and his eventually return to Xun's side is still the subject of legend in the Jade Empire.

Basically, I'm thinking he's Xun's Marius Gage, the guy who was doing a great job running a war, with the difference that Xun says 'keep up the good work, son' and sends him off with a renovated logistics corps.

>>48746142
Loving the prompts.

Equerry.
He has three of significance.
1. Darnios, His 2IC. A strategist and master co-ordinator. Able to read the flow of battle unlike any other in the Legion.
2. Garrek, Herald of the Hawks. Given the powers and authority to speak on the Primarchs behalf. His word is uncontested within the Legion, and any disrespect shown to him, is taken as a slight against the Primarch himself.
3. Cirion - his original name is known only to the Primarch, he is the Vigilator-Primus, the leader of the Spectres, a secret division within the Legion. Where Garrek is the Primarchs voice, Cirion is his eyes and ears. His existence is a closely guarded secret, only the Legions top council is aware of him, as well as the Warmaster, and one or two of Raydons closest brothers.

>>48746290
If we do, I would suggest we at least attempt a level of balance of the characters.

>>48746142
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Negators#Davidian_Knights

Got a whole segment on this.

>>48746346
Actually, while I'm at it, some stuff from last thread I was working on about the development of the legion:

>Legion before Xun
In retrospect, the transformation of the Storm Wolves into the Sky Serpents is hardly surprising, Xun merely changed the balance of their humors.
However, at the time, the change was incredible.
The Storm Wolves was not the only cognomen of the Legion, nor did it cease in use after Sky Serpents came into use, but it is, perhaps, their best known early name and still evokes the Terran past.

The legion was much rougher then, and had yet to display the civilized edge they are now known for. They were a force known for their swift and brutal assaults, more akin to the Void Lords than anything else. However, unlike the Void Lords or Negators, the early legion displayed a seemingly paradoxical capability for discipline and cohesion. Perhaps it was this trait that gave rise to the appellation Wolves, for the legion would prowl and circle beyond planetary firelight before assaulting with the ferocity of a hurricane. Over time, the legion also developed techniques to impair enemy cohesion, such as diversionary strikes and raids on communications systems.

The biggest difference was the treatment of human auxiliae. Prior to Xun, human auxiliae were treated as a disposable resource, with very few exceptions for elite forces. One particularly common tactic was the Soot Talon, which relied on a largely sacrificial force to draw out the enemy for the legion to either surround and destroy, or strike a strategically significant and now vulnerable site.
Xun did not entirely discontinue the practice, and instead simply restricted the human units available for such actions to Penal Battalions and other such forces. These were the predecessors to the later famous Argon Apemen.

(In sum, the legion was a heck of a lot like the Luna Wolves before Xun.)

>>48746433
>If we do, I would suggest we at least attempt a level of balance of the characters.
The Dornian Heresy pdf doesn't have any rules, afaik, it's just a short document that goes over the setting with some neat artwork.

>>48746142
Alexios' Equerry is Eulodius Rex, a commander skilled with both a blade and a command vox. Eulodius tempers Alexios' cautious nature with a fervor for action and a resolved attitude of always doing what is right. While Eulodius is hyper-practical by most Astartes' standards, he is seen as reckless by his peers. He is Master of the Legion, and as he commanded the XIIth before Alexios' discovery, he commands it in his absences, which are frequent.

Alexios' inner circle is known as the Pantheon, a group of twelve Chapter Masters of what would one day become the Angels' most honored and powerful successors. They are chosen for the battle-honors they have won, the political clout they have mustered, and the knowledge they have gathered.

>>48746346
>Illuyanka Tlaloc, Chief Librarian of the Sky Serpents
I don't have much on him yet, except for the fact that he had been in Xun's court on Tepectitlan.
I think he goes on to become the first grandmaster of the Grey Knight equivalent. They replace his bones with adamantium etched with anti-daemonic runes and he is almost slain in a fight against a greater daemon, but another Sky Serpent psyker in need of a way to establish his credentials as a badass slays it and Illuyanka Tlaloc gets put in a dreadnought, probably a leviathan, you know, to keep that serpent theme going. They wake him up every so often, such as during a crusade, and when he is in stasis, they hook up an autoscribe to record his dreams. They're believed to be prophetic, and on a few occasions scryers claim that they include messages from Xun and the Emperor. Lately though, his dreams have been getting very, very weird because End Times. They're afraid to wake him up, given the deep state of reception he seems to be in, but they also are afraid they'll need him on the front. In particular, he was the only Librarian still alive who was there in M35 on Prospero with Xun.

>>48746142

>First Captain Hadrianus
First captain of the Undying Scions and Sarco's second. First among equals on Funerus' war council.

>Forgemaster Nersor Hembden
The Scions' primary liaison to the cult of mars, Nersor is responsible for "discovering" several pieces of archeotech that have later gone on to see extensive service in the legion's armory. Most notable among these is the annihilation beam, a lascannon that fires a continuous stream of energy.

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>>48746142
Balthasar has the War Pack, his hunting buddies from the communist werewolf revolution back home. All of them bear shards of the Anathame, which they use during the heresy to harvest worlds for daemon crop. Balthasar's second is Gaspard Armistice, a man who sees the hilariously grimdark truth of the galaxy: there is only war. Like the Comedian from Watchmen.

>>48746142
While I type something up for this, I just realized I have to get thinking about the fact that the Second Sons are a Nurglite group. I think they fit pretty well within his thematic and emotional spectrum, but I realize they're really outside of his usual aesthetic ethos.

What would demons related to the Sons look like? If they summoned a Great Unclean one, would it still be a greasy corpulent blob of disease? What about nurglings?

>>48747385
I'd been imagining their daemon-princes as skeletally thin, rad-wraiths. They'd be death in its hungry aspect.

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A Warp Monstrosity of the Behemoth Guard

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>>48747528
a magos

>>48747471
Are daemons that physically mutable? I get Daemon princes are reflections of the person they once were, but the directly god-spawned daemons?

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>>48746682
>Advisory Bodies
There are a few distinct elite bodies in the Legion.
First off, there's the Chaotai, which is sort of the ruling council, which consists of the Tzokin leaders and the heads of various inter Tzokin organizations.

>Warrior Lodges
Warrior Lodges didn't make much headway in the legion, in part because of the existence of inter-Tzokin organizations which filled much the same role as Warrior Lodges did in other legions. Many of these were functional things such as the Techmarines or the Librarius (called the Threefold Gate), specialized technology recovery groups, siege masters, disinformation cadres, but others were more social in nature, such as the legion dueling society or the bonsai arboritums and starship garden sections.
As a result of those, and the fact that the legion was united in purpose, meant that Warrior lodges did not have much to offer.
When other legions showed Sky Serpents their lodge, the Sky Serpent's reaction was typically akin to "ah, cool, yeah, we do the same thing. Sweet robes though."

>>48738802

Oh, and I made this https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Imperium_Asunder_Timeline
Populating it with data from previous threads, if you all could help me organize it, I think it would help everyone keep track of what's going on.

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>>48747611
What?

Also, are the giant AIs from last thread in or out? If they're in, I'll work on implementing them in the setting a little more.

>>48747909
Oh, I was replying >>48747471 not >>48747528

>>48747528
Oh gods, those hands. That's fucked up, yo.

(Perfect.)

>>48747786
Like I said before,

>Noblebright robots vs communist british werewolves and Gustavus Adolphus in Space

Count me the fuck in.

>>48747786
I think they are workable, but we should look at them more as a tau like faction, cool - but small scale, not like a tyranid or necron faction - one that is inevitably going to have a massive end game.

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>>48748061
Noble their intentions may be, there's very little bright about their methodology when push meets shove.

>>48747574
Hmm. Well, at least in the HH books, daemons apperantly take on a whole lot more forms than there are models for. I'd imagine that daemons might reflect the form of the ritual that summons them. With the withering of flesh, yeah, I could totally see them coming out looking different-- it's just a holder for the daemon in our world, after all.

>>48747648
Im reading the timeline and finding a few inaccuracies. In particular with the Council of Titans, it wasn't Alexios idea & Malcador initially called it to group everyone together to retake the Imperium proper, not to oppose the idea.

The place we end up, is far from the desired outcome, not the intended. More to follow.

>>48748909
>Malcador initially called it to group everyone together to retake the Imperium proper
This is what I thought all along. They don't decide to found crusader states so much as they fail to decide to stay unified. The council is a failure.

>>48748909
I just copy-pasted from earlier threads. (Thanks for proofing it)

>>48748943
Yeah.

Well it fails in a lot of respects, but it sticks around as a meeting place and way to resolve issues between the states.

So fails in a lot of areas, but not a total loss.

>>48748959
No problem. Still reading.

>>48748959
>>48748943
Major topics to be discussed over the course of the Council, and who raised them.
>Selection of a new Warmaster - Raydon
>Role of the Custodes - Malcador
>Role & Holding of the Mechanicum/Adoption by FoM - Equerry from FoM, supported by the new Fabricator General.
>The nature & reliability of the Fire Wall - Xun
>Responsibility, Duties, and methods of guarding the Tempestus Gap - Equerry from Knights Exemplar
>Location of Grashnak - Kor
>Authority over the Imperial Auxillia & Imperial Armada
>Establishment of the Warp Beacons, and the Astronomicon Project - Malcador
>Risks of further betrayal from within - Alexios

I asked a few threads back for topics that certain primarchs would want raised, unfortunately I didn't get many replies so I went ahead and thought about what they might raise. - Feel free to correct / suggest other topics they would want discussed.

ALSO IMPORTANT NOTE
The Council of Titans im writing about is distinctly different from the Imperial Senate that is established at the conclusion of the meeting. The senate is essentially the same thing but POST-State establishment.
Topics discussed at that are:
>The Codex and division into chapters
>Kors xeno-tolerance & risks allowing cults
>Imperial Cult vs Imperial Truth
>Border disputes
>Role of the Imperial Auxillia/Armada now Imperial Army and the Imperial Navy.
>Other things that occur between 31-40k period.
>Maintenance of the Warp Beacons
>Support for the Broken Blades
>Establishment of !Inquistion
>Rise of Necron threat
>Emergence of the Tyranids
>Launching of crusades
Things like that.

Is anyone opposed to this? Any suggestions one way or another?

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>>48749388
If they are going to stick around, the rise/arrival/return of these guys >>48747786

Which raises an interesting question, how would they react to them? How would the Dark Imperium react? The Eldar/Dark Eldar?

>>48749432
The States I imagine would deal with them in varying degrees of seriousness, most likely those at more risk treating it more seriously, those far away down-playing them.

The senate would discuss it, maybe even establish a committee who recommends an investigation who finds evidence of things that will need to be discussed further, and on and on.

The Dark Imperium would attempt to corrupt & Manipulate

The Eldar would manipulate others into the way to shield themselves, or attempt to insert wrathbone into the system to turn it to their purposes.

>>48749432
Also what are they called?

The System, the Mainframe, the Collective, or a real name?

>>48748959
Do you want the timeline organised into faction based lots or a single chronological timeline?

Im partial to the later but dont want to undo your work if its not what you wanted.

Side note, someone please post something, I feel like im talking to myself.

>>48749656
Well, they could be the Collective and simply take over the areas the Extropians used to have. Seeing as their creator kinda dropped out and they're pretty similar as factions.

That said, they're less of a collective than a single massive but fragmented entity. So maybe something more like the System, even if that's a little awkward and heavy handed.

If the first line is fine with you guys, we can call it the Collective for the time being. I'll try to come up with something better by the end of tomorrow.

>>48749676
Sorting it by Faction would be pretty good, but I'm not Xun.

It's also pretty late on East Coast. That hasn't stopped us that much before, but I guess people are tired. Myself included.

>>48749910
>East Coast
Cursed time zones!

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>>48749910
>pretty late
It's one in the morning lmao do you ever sleep?

Also, how should I play the formation of Battlefleet Vigilant? Did most of the loyalist remnants of the Imperium just end up in the Vigil or did the Undying Scions create the navy from scratch? Is that something to be discussed at the council of titans?

>>48750019
Who has overall authority of the battle fleet, does it come under the scions for being in Vigil space? or is it independent and if so how does it recruit, just press gang planets?

It works if its discussed as I said here >>48749388
one of the things discussed at the council is who holds authority of the Imperial Armada. and something that gets raised in the senate is the who has command of them.

>>48750101
The leader if Battlefleet Vigilant gets a seat on the Amaranthine High Council.

>>48750174
But is that an invitation, or is it mandatory.

In the first case, its like "we work closely together in a symbiotic relationship" in the other its "I own the fleet, and when I say jump they jump".

Which is important for the politics of the Senate to have discussed.

>>48749910
>>48749930
I can do that. Still gathering them from previous threads. Though I'm on the east coast and I teach my first class tomorrow so I'm going to try to get some sleep. (I'm a grad student.)

Also I'm going to try writing up some ideas for Grah'anak after doing some Sky Serpents stuff, and some detail on Behemoth Guard organization. Oh, and I have a few story ideas for Sky Serpents.
>Xun vs. Rubinek
Do we know when Rubinek was found and when he was purged?
>Anshul trying to bring Xun over to the traitor cause, or rather, the side of the pantheon
>Something about a mixed legion force on campaign together when the heresy hits and they need to decide what to do

>>48749388
>Risks of further betrayal from within - Alexios
Yeah this makes sense. Alexios is the one always warning of caution, of possible dangers, etc. Having been fooled by the Eyes of the Warmaster into fighting Void Lords and Fists of Mars in the early days of the heresy, Alexios is very paranoid about more of the Warmaster's plots.

>>48750306
>Do we know when Rubinek was found and when he was purged?
It should be before Nikaea, so that at Nikaea there is precedent for excommunication of a legion.

Maybe he's even one of the earliest found ones, and some of the later primarchs never even met him?

The way I read Rubinek, there's he's never really NOT a heretek. There's no old glory days before they fell to darkness, they just started out as dark, mutated freaks which the Emperor wishes had never been made. The Legion may have got some action before Rubinek was discovered, but that's before they became the Iron Hearts. Once they find Rubinek and he gives them the gift of the Iron Hearts, their days are numbered.

>>48750306
>>48750457
I'm thinking between 800-900 M30

>>48750403
Yeah I went with the person I thought most likely to be cautious, and the fact he later pens the idea of breaking up the Legions into the chapters indicating he wanted a division of power within the East.

>>48750457
>mutated freaks which the Emperor wishes had never been made
this doesn't sit well with me, if we are having them descend after Rubinek takes control as per
>Once they find Rubinek and he gives them the gift of the Iron Hearts, their days are numbered
Could we not perhaps have them be normal, with perhaps a dormant genetic mutation, which Rubinek activates when he takes control.

I just cant internally explain why the Emperor would allow a horribly mutated legion to survive without a Primarch.

>>48750491
Well, that's kind of what happens with the Thousand Sons. A lot of people were advocating them being purged, but the Big E waited until he found the Primarch in case he could fix it.

It's just that in this case the Primarch doesn't.

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>>48750491
I see them as the black sheep, mocked and looked down upon by their peers for being twisted, weak, frail, etc. Then Rubinek comes along and offers them power and greatness at the cost of excommunication and enduring centuries as outcasts.

They're on the line as it is, and then Rubinek pushes them over it.

If we want them to have a big fall from grace that's cool too.

>>48750536
>>48750512
I see, I misunderstood. Thats cool.

Its just the imagery I get thinking about mutants isnt the same imagery of potent psykers whose methods are disagreeable.

But im onboard.

>>48750491
>>48750512
Same with the Emperor's Children.

>>48750482
Cool. I'll make him found at around the same time as Xun and Anshul, so that they all spend a little bit of time together on either the Emperor's ship or Terra.

>>48750554
No, the Thousand Sons were literally falling apart at the genetic level. They were mutating into all kinds of horrible shit at a massive scale.

Only a couple thousand were unaffected enough to even begin to be salvaged, and only a thousand survived that. Hence Thousand Sons.

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>>48750554
>Its just the imagery I get thinking about mutants isnt the same imagery of potent psykers whose methods are disagreeable

They're not psykers at all. 'Horrible Mutant' in this case means inbred looking weirdos with hunchbacks and clubfoots and shit.

>>48750582
Yeah, Thousand Sons would spontaneously turn into balls of tentacles and shit. It plagued the legion in secret for a long time.

>>48750560
>>48750512
I didn't realise there was so much clamour for excommunication of astarte legions, i've not read the HH series, but I always imagined the idea of Marines fighting Marines to be literally unfathomable initially. Like loyalists almost standing their blankly whilst people are being hacked apart.

>>48750626
>but I always imagined the idea of Marines fighting Marines to be literally unfathomable initially

It is and it isn't.

There's comments that one of the two EXPUNGED legions was executed en masse by all of the legions, which is part of why the primarchs don't like talking about them. There's hints that the Wolves were used to purge the other one.

Leman Rus openly calls for the extermination of all Thousand Sons at Nikaea, and nobody really acts that shocked when he says it.

The Primarchs in the books react with angry violence whenever anyone mentions that civil war among the astartes is possible, but they're at each other's throats often enough to contradict that.

Overnight bump

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>>48749388
Fists here, I missed the request for topics but you got what i would have put down anyway.

decided to contribute something. After the Codex is written up and the fists refuse to follow it a council is held within the forge space between the Mechanicus and the Fists. Taking inspiration from the Sinister Accords and the Codex Astartes the "Codex Sinister" is penned. Within its pages, after much arguing, it is decided that

>The Fists and the Mechanicum are to remain separate identities, with neither being an organization within the other
>The Mechanicum is never to take command over battle and shall rely upon the Fists for all efforts of war unless ordered by Fists to fight
>The Fists are never to attempt to intervene with matters of the mechanicum unless such an act is one of war and then must be given blessings of war before battle by a mechanicum member
>The organization known as the skitarii are to work and live directly under the command of members of the Fists and never independently nor under orders of mechanicus
>Skitarii are to remain loyal to the mechanicum and all members must take tests of compliance to the omnissiah every two years
>Each space marine squad must contain a member of the skitarii loyal to the mechanicum
>Knowledge must flow freely between members of the fists and members of the mechanicum, as such hiding knowledge from a member of equal rank is forbidden by the Codex Sinister
>The words of Marcus Sinistrum are to be obeyed always
>A "Master of Mars" is to be chosen from within the ranks of the Fists to represent the will of the chapter and of Marcus, there is no higher position within the Fists or Mechanicum
>A group ,dubbed "Sinister Prophets", of 10 high magos are to be chosen from the ranks of the mechanicus to see over the care of marcus sinistrum and to interpret his divine will
>Structure of the Fists is shown in pic related


maybe cont if i think of more, what do you guys think?

>>48751922
> skitarii are to work and live directly under the command of members of the Fists and never independently nor under orders of mechanicus

but then...

>Skitarii are to remain loyal to the mechanicum
and
>Each space marine squad must contain a member of the skitarii loyal to the mechanicum

I'm confused by this. How do they remain loyal to one organisation but are under the command of another, and unable to follow orders of the organisation they are supposedly loyal to.

In the following situation what happens.
>Fist squad sent to investigate the activities of a mechanicus agent
>attempt to seize him, only for questioning
>he refuses
>they attempt to use force
what does the skitarii member do? Help, watch, help him?

Also, whats the advantage of combining a single member of the skitarii to a squad of Astartes, I mean you can only move and fight according to your weakest link.

Anyway, looks good. Keen to learn more about the FoM

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Saul Sheridan stood on the ashen plains of Armageddon. For a hundred kilometers in every direction there was naught but ash and corpses. His soldiers marched in a wide spread, a line stretching as far as the eye could see. Now and then a soldier engaged his flamer, spewing flaming green phosphex on anything moving. Their orders were simple, 'Let nothing live.' Behind the battle line came Astartes heavy weapon squads, spartan assault tanks, and anti-air Dreadnoughts. Floating in orbit high above were support bombers, prepared to turn any sector of the planet to radioactive slag. The bombers looked like great black bricks, floating immobile in the sky. Closer in the sky, the valkyries of Saul's Imperial Auxiliae ran strafing runs ahead of the advance.

Towering over the horizon ahead of Saul and his soldiers were the flaming ruins of Death Mire Hive, a jagged mess of collapsed towers and reinforced bulwarks. The Hive had belonged to the Orks for much of this war, but now a darker foe haunted its spires. Even at this distance, over the rotorblades of his close air support, Saul could hear the rhythmic screeching of gears. In that keening cry, Saul could swear he heard a voice. "Kill!" the voices said, "Destroy! Consume!"

Saul tried not to listen.

>>48752038
It's kind of supposed to be bad because of arguing between the fists and mechanicum. Something like
"Fists get to be in charge"
"No you only get to be in charge of the army stuff"
"Fine but then you don't get an army"
"ok but only if you let our guys hang out with you"

The idea is the Skitarii are under Fist control but are Mechanicus members and are there to make sure Fists comply with all the rules.
>Skitarii ... all members must take tests of compliance to the omnissiah every two years
That's there so that the mechanicum can come in and make sure they are all still looking out for the mechanicum and have not fully become fist members.

in that situation you pose due to
>Knowledge must flow freely between members of the fists and members of the mechanicum, as such hiding knowledge from a member of equal rank is forbidden by the Codex Sinister

It is in following of the Codex for the mechanicus agent to either share what he knows or report to a higher authority to share what he knows. as such the skitarii would aid the fists. its also worth mentioning here that

>The Fists are never to attempt to intervene with matters of the mechanicum unless such an act is one of war and then must be given blessings of war before battle by a mechanicum member

So if the Fists don't have the blessing of a mechanicum member to be intervening the skitarii is against the fists here. If they do then he would follow the fists lead.

After the integration of the mechanicum and fists the skitarii kind of become mechanicus inquisitors. They hold a much higher rank within the mechanicus then they do within the fists

one other thing on that note is that while there must be a skitarii member in each squad and they can't work alone under mechanicus rule or independently you will still see squads of skitarii acting alone on the orders of the fists

Hope that all makes sense and if it doesn't i'll rework it. Quite happy for feedback of any kind

>>48752163

Armageddon is deep in Chaos Territory though.

>>48751922
I dig it. Political squabbling and vying for power between the Military and Industrial parts of the Military Industrial Complex.

>>48752038
>I'm confused by this. How do they remain loyal to one organisation but are under the command of another, and unable to follow orders of the organisation they are supposedly loyal to.
How does a Corpsman serve with Marines if he's technically loyal to the navy?

>>48752208
This is during the HH

>>48752179
>>48752038
>>48751922
>>48752210

OH and i totally forgot to mention that my whole explanation of the skitarii can be interpreted to clash with against

>The Fists and the Mechanicum are to remain separate identities, with neither being an organization within the other

And that's true it kind of does but that's the nature of political squabbling. Fists are willing to ignore it to strip the mechanicum of their armies and the Mechanicum are willing to ignore it to have spies in the Fists army. That being said it could end up being a huge deal down the line

>>48752251
>>48752210
Because he will be under the marines tacon, tacomd, opcon, or opcomd.

Can i offer an alternative.
>mech and fists seperate orgs
>fists under authority of primarch
>mech under authority of omnissiah, whose 'physical' embodiment/chosen one is primarch.
>primarch is head of 2 technically seperate orgs
>skitarii under authority of mech
However
>all fists hold certain 'honorary' rank within skitarii rank structure
Eg. Fist sgt = skitarii tribune.
Fist captain = skitarii general. Etc etc.
Much like jedi holding rank in republic clone army.
>skitarii have their own chain of command, its just that fists hold 2up rank leaving them in charge.

This does leave plenty of room for tension and politicing.
Fist captain arguing with magos about who holds seniority. Fist saying he is commander, magos saying they are equal rank, so magos retains authority of skitarii etc.

Essentially it plays up the difference between rank and appointment.

Even a general cant just order random soldiers around, as they are outside his unit and if he wants them to do things he has to go through there chain of command. Or make "friendly recommendations".

>>48752500
Your problem is you're assuming it's supposed to be a well designed system that makes sense.

It's supposed to be a nonsense web of conflicting loyalties and confusing bureaucracy

>>48752500
You bring up some good ideas but this guy is right
>>48752534
It should be confusing and such. Also it should be noted that the Fists want to demilitarize the mechanicus to keep a position of power. While the mech can't really argue against it because of Sinistrum putting down in the Sinister Accords that the fists are the holy protectors of the mechanicus.

>>48752599
update to my post to make it more clear, the Fists won't let the Mechanicus keep the skitarii as they are

>>48752534
I understand beaurocracy but what was proposed was almost nonsensical.

Marines paired with astartes would be like modern soldiers dragging around an invalid on the battlefield.

What was proposed denied the mech from giving orders to the skitarii. So who tells them to be watchdogs? Why does the mech pay for an army that it cant use? How do you even raise ajd train an army without orders?

Honestly the contention between rank, position, appointments, amd overall loyalty is complex enough.

>fist says destroy that building tactical advantage gained
>skitarii says k
>magos is like but that factory is divine blah blah machine blahs
>fist says tactical advantage blah
>skitarii is under command of fist and SHOULD obey orders.
>skitarii is also soldier of mecha god and doesnt want to offend him
>priest of mecha god says doing so is bad
>his command says its goos
What do skitarii commander?

>>48752671
>>48752671
Raydon you make good points but i think you're missing the whole idea of the thing.
>What was proposed denied the mech from giving orders to the skitarii.
That's the point. I'm happy to take on advice but i'm looking for advice on how to implement exactly that

>So who tells them to be watchdogs?
The codex and the Mechanicum, everyone knows that's what they are and what they do
>Why does the mech pay for an army that it cant use?
Because they agree to leave all the fighting to the fists. The two groups are intrinsically linked. Arming the Fists is arming the mechanicus
>How do you even raise and train an army without orders?
They do have orders, they work under the military command of the Fists in the best interest to the Mechanicum.

>>48752763
> missing the point
I am, im quite confused.

Do you intend for the skitarii to be like a pdf for forge worlds? With the fists handling foreign operations?

Or like the skitarii cohorts act as private armies for magos. Like in 300 with leonidas taking his "bodyguard" for a walk.

Using a real world analogy. What im seeing from your description is a nation say Australia who raises, trains, and equips a Marine Corps. But the officers are all US military and while the marines swear oaths of service to the Queen, they are commanded by the US. In the hopes they still serve in the best interests of Australia.

Is that right? Or should i just give up because im wildly off the mark?

>>48752671
>What do skitarii commander?
Raising that question is kind of the point. It leads to civil wars and infighting, things that define the crusader states.

>>48752931
Yes exactly, I was using that as an example of how the set up allowed for plenty of dispute/confusion.

But it seems irrelevant as I was misunderstanding a more basic principle of the set up. I am awaiting clarification.

>>48752814
Ok so i see the problem and i blame myself for just refuting your points rather than explaining better, sorry.

First a bit on the background to the situation. (I didn't intend this to be so huge but it all just kept flowing)

Regardless of how it gets implemented. The core concept is that the skitarii before the herasy were the personal army of the mechanicus. When they needed to fight somewhere they send them + war machines and such. Whereas the Fists were space marines fighting the crusade, while working for the emperor with a close bond to the mechanicus and their ideals surrounding technology and its importance.

After everything with Marcus dieing and the herasy. The fists need to cling on to everything they have to survive and the Mechanicus need to find someone to protect them from the war as their forces are aren't enough alone. Fearing the Mechanicus will grow to become a large organization spread across the entire eastern imperium, as they naturally would become otherwise. The Fists quickly reestablish their strong connection to become not just the hand of the omnissiah within the emperors ranks but to fully integrate them into the Fists structure. The various struggles between the two come from two major things. First is that the Fists want to take over the mechanicum and rule it themselves and other that the mechanicum and the Fists have, broadly speaking, different goals and beliefs.

Ok so 2nd post income that might actually help

>>48753061
So for the Codex Sinister the Fists are doing there best to bring the Mechanicum into the structure of the Fists and to stop the mechanicum from being able to live without the Fists involvement. The Mechanicum are trying to use the fists goals to turn them into a private army and to keep control of the Forge space.

For the skitarii let's ignore my previous writing and just say that what i want to turn them into is something along the lines of the inquisition for the mechanicus. That being said where the inquisition can walk in and do whatever they want because inquisition these guys are limited by technically being under the command of the people they are looking into. That point brings up the most interesting part of what i'm trying to do which is that the Skitarii are the Double agents of the mechanicus. Fists are worried about what they will report back or if they are about to accuse you of herasy to the Omnissiah. Mechanicus are always worried their agents are turning on them from living with the "enemy" for to long. Which would be a huge problem since the Fists agree to a bunch of rules that say they can't do stuff unless a mechanicum member says it's ok and the skitarii are capable of doing so.

All that spy stuff is about their strange position as members of the Mechanicum under control of the Fists. As for their ability to function as an army? They are more of a pdf for forge worlds, with the fists handling foreign operations. As you say but they would have at least some presence in every Fists army and the Fists would have some presence in the forge worlds, out of the way, quite places may have 5 space marines along with a full protection of skitarii.

I guess TLDR: Fists are in control of army shit Mech are in control of other shit Skitarii are in a weird middle spot that worries everyone

>>48752975
>>48753061
>>48753162

And hell maybe the whole idea is crap but i thought i'd try to do something and i feel it's at least worth defending the idea. If it's still not going anywhere let's just drop it, i trust your judgment as you have tried to keep FoM relevant and interesting.

also
>>48752931
not me but i think you got that.

>>48739252
>>48739549

They're recovering armor. IW are some of the least mutated and corrupted marines, with a Gellar field generator they can push out warp corruption.

>>48753162
I think I understand now where I went wrong understanding your vision.

I've been thinking of the Skitarii as a military force, where you want to turn them more into an intelligence agency.

I think I understand now. So their wouldnt be skitarii legions, there would be skitarii operatives.

And they wouldnt be attached to FoM squads but rather attached to a company, in the same way that imperial guard regiments get commissars. Attachments that operate outside the chain of command but report on the actions of their charges.

Maybe even summative authority to seize power in cases of tech heresy? Is this more in line with what you're seeing.

I can dig that.

>>48753241
Yeah your on it exactly now. Worth keeping you think?

>>48753280
100% rad idea.

Why though are you using the skitarii, which were a military branch? Is there a reason for their repurposing, instead of just creating a new name for the mecha-inquisition?

But yes - awesome idea.

>>48753367
I was trying to think of what to do with them in the setting and didn't know what to do. Then i was thinking if i were the Fists what would i want to do with them and honestly i think id want to get rid of them because they are a great tool to let the mechanicus do their own thing. If i were the Mechanicus i wouldn't need the skitarii so much anymore but i wouldn't just let the fists dismantle your army so what to do with these guys? this seemed like both sides getting what they want

>>48753411
Well assuming they can be separate from the mecha-inquisition, you could have the discussion of the skitarii end as bodyguards or only protective forces.

The Fists don't want them to have a "military" arm, the Mech don't want to be 100% reliant on the Fists for protection.

Simple solution is like I said above, the skitarii only act as bodyguards - have it be illegal/heresy for skitarii to operate in battle without a fist commander EXCEPT in cases where they are defending forgeworlds, agents of the omnissiah (ie: techpriests, magos, and such), or divine instruments (titans & void ships)

In this way you can keep them as an offensive force (if Fists give it the okay) but the mechanicum can still feel safe.

You would have to limit it somehow, say depending on your rank you are allowed X amount of guards.

Forgeworlds would be allowed an amount of cohorts dependant upon the importance of their crafts, population, and threats.

Titans & void ships would likely be the same.

Essentially its an attempt to get the best of both worlds.

The hard part (and possibly the best) is coming up with a cool name for the mecha-inquisition.

I've been trying to think of something to do with commissars but have come up with nothing to suggest.

>>48753530
Ok yeah im on board with that idea, thanks. Ill think about a name but your right itll be hard.

>>48753411
>>48753610

The Collegiate
The Augurs
Secutors
The Magos Juris

I dont know im ripping cool sounding names of the Mechanicus wiki.

This Forgespace stuff is interesting.

So am I correct in assuming there'd be no macroclade structure for Skitarii? The focus entirely as singular attaches?

I envisaged them as basically being the Realm Guard of the Forgespace originally. If they're not, does the Forgespace instead have conventional guardsmen type regiments that serve under the Fists of Mars? Or are Skitarii organized into regiments/macroclades that are attached to the FoM?

>>48753530
>I've been trying to think of something to do with commissars but have come up with nothing to suggest.

Cyborg commissars!

CYBORG COMMISSARS.

>>48753530
How would this interact with other mechanicum forces, like the Legio Cybernetica?

And what sort of forces do the skitarii have access to? Augmented soldiers? Cy-carnivora? Thallax? Weapons servitor? Robots? Sarco Funerus Tanks? Anything the magos dream up?
I'm thinking the Sky Serpents keep cybernetica cohorts deployed as a defensive system.

>>48752500
>>48752599
Do the Fists have a manifold? Is it the same one as the Skitarii?

Are Vect and Eldrad still major players in the Eldar world?

>>48757116
Huh, that's an interesting point. I recall seeing both names-- Vect apparently let's the Negators crash in Commoragh and Eldrad supports the Eldar Empire. I'd assume Eldrad works behind the scenes with the Harlequins as he does in the OU.

Speaking of which, the story in the Death Masque got me thinking. I bet Eldrad met Xun on more than one occasion and Xun was familiar with the Harlequins from Oramar.
Xun, brother of Oramar, son of Anathema probably kept lines of communication open to them, lines which various organizations would have ensured remained open after he ascended.
What I'm saying is that I think Eldrad may be working with factions in the Jade Empire and the Harlequins to awaken Ynnead early.
The Eldar Instrumentality Project, which operates parallel to the Imperial Instrumentality Project...

With Vect, I think the big question is how he feels about the Eldar Empire.

>>48753162
So that's the Mechanicum in Exile, which become the Mechanicum of the Forgespace, yeah?

What about the Mechanicum of the East?
I'm thinking that the Mechanicum of the East, used to being more or less autonomous and far from the meddling of Mars rejects the validity of the synod and claims loyalty direct to the Mechanicum.
Like Tindalos, swore an oath direct to the Emperor and claims that submission to Sinistrum would be blasphemy.
Tindalos is the closest forge to Tepectitlan, so it gets away with it. That sort of thing.
They still pay homage to the Master of Mars, but use the Emperor's absence as an excuse to maintain their position.

I have two relatively important questions. Does Ollanius Pius exist in this canon? If so what capacity? And is there some sort of underground resistance within the Dark Imperium? Because I just got kind of a wacky idea.

I was re-watching some old trailers for games, and got to the announcement trailer for Wolfenstein: The New Order. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9vXzCV4g4s Watch it, it's one of the best trailers ever released for a video game imo, and Wolfenstein is fucking great.) Suddenly I felt like I was shot with a diamond bullet right in my forehead.

Ollanius Pius is the leader of the resistance within the Dark Imperium. Just watch the trailer with that context in mind.

I don't really have the idea any more fleshed out than that, but it just struck me as really awesome.

>>48758323
I like this. A lot. We also have an Imperial saint who was martyred on Terra and came back from the dead.

What if it gets used like a Spartacus name and people see written everywhere "Who is Olianus Pius?"

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>>48758648
I was thinking "OLLANIUS PIUS LIVES" or something along those lines. Maybe Olly is actually dead, but he's now become a symbol against tyranny and impossible odds.

It's probably not a big thing in the fluff, the imagery/parallels of it just seemed way too perfect to me.

>>48759315
>>48758648
>>48758323
I like that there might be "cults of order" in the dark imperium.

>>48759315
I like the idea of them using the name as an alias for the movement. When they're to be martyred, they yell 'I am Olianus Pius'

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>>48758648
>>48759315
>>48759490
This is definitely the kind of turning of the canon status quo that I like for the Dark Imperium. Instead of evil cults popping up and being hunted by Inquisitors, it's noble resistance forces rising up and being squashed by... Inquisitors?

>>48759700
I don't dig the 'I am Spartacus' thing though. I prefer 'Ollanius Pious lives.' Dude's a perpetual, so him being executed by the Dark Imperium several times but managing to 'survive' could be a moral rallying point for the resistance.


Which reminds me, I've been thinking about the Eyes a lot lately. I very much like that we've left the Warmaster as REDACTED without much detail and with lots of mystery. However, I think we should flesh out the Eyes themselves more. They're the martial arm of a cunning deceiver, and the face of a faceless man

Help me answer some prompts for them, and help come up with more prompts

>What sort of battlefield tactics would the Eyes use?
They definitely support their battlefield tactics by infiltrating the enemy to break them from within, but what do the non-infiltrating Astartes fight like?

>What sort of naming conventions should we use for them? Any cultural analogues?
Since they're from Terra, they might just have pan-Imperial culture. Or maybe they intentionally EXPUNGE records of soldiers' origins before inducted into the Astartes?

>Any cool Equerry ideas?
Maybe a Mouth of Sauron type dude?

>>48759814
I like the erased personal history idea.

I think they'd probably be one of those mobile warfare legions. Honestly, I think they'd fight like a less psych/null version of the Sky Serpents.

>>48759814
Maybe they all have codenames or psuedonyms of some kind?

>>48759908
>I think they'd fight like a less psych/null version of the Sky Serpents.
On that subject, someone brought up the subject of the Warmaster projecting a psyckic damping field around him, not quite a null but halfway there. How do people feel about that? It might go far to explaining the 'normal' facade of daemonic terra.

>>48759965
As a psychic ability? Or as a blank ability? As a blank, I don't see why or how he could be favored by Chaos.

>>48759965
I'd suggested that and (as you might expect) I think it works great.

>>48759999
Could be a psychic ability, could be an innate trait. He can't be a full-on blank though because, as we discussed when it was initially brought up, the Primarchs were created using the warp, so a null Primarch is a paradox.

>>48760014
The warp is mercurial. Blanks are a natural part of the Galaxy, as much psykers are. Aren't they? Or are they exclusively a human thing as a result of the pariah genes?

>>48759965
Kinda like how hobbits project an aura of normalcy and minor-ness to the point that they can literally just crouch down or hide in a corner to go unseen by most folks?

>>48760067
What I mean is, if a primarch were a blank, he wouldn't be able to be made into a primarch in the first place. In order to make the primarchs, the Emperor essentially cloned himself 20 times, then used chaos sorcery on the clones. If he can't use sorcery on one of the clones, he can't primarchify him.

>>48760110
Oh. God. I hate some of the shit in the HH.

Just a random fluff question though. What if a blank was born as strong a blank as the Emperor was a psyker. Ignoring the fact his own mother would either die or try to kill him. Maybe he's a raised by wolves/nature sort of thing.

>>48758323
Whats the point of ollanius now? He was a plot device to spur the emperor into Killing horus, but in this AU the warmastee backstabs the emperor.

I dont understand, without that moment in history he is just a random guardsman having no reason to become an imperial saint.

>>48760332
>without that moment in history he is just a random guardsman having no reason to become an imperial saint.
Except for the part where he's a perpetual tapped by the xeno Cabal and John Grammaticus.

>>48760110
>>48760218
>>48760110
>>48760218
Well, let's just get rid of that, then. The Emperor made the primarchs through gene-tech, some sorcery, and a whole lot of super science. How? Nobody knows, but [Redacted] is a null.

At very least, he could be a low pressure site in the warp, have an effect like the Nid shadow in the warp.

His legion has similarly weird warp effects.

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>>48757360
I wrote up a huge thing and the computer restarted. mmmm.

TLDWA: The Mech's power and influence comes from a monopoly, they wouldn't allow a part of them to be autonomous and not toe the party line, they might allow freedoms but at the end of the day they would need to be in charge.

Alternative: have the forgeworld be run by a fabricator general whose political rise is tied to the Tepectitlan and he returns favours to ensure close bonds.

>Dude's a perpetual
Thats incredibly upsetting to hear. Invalidating his noble sacrifice.

>>48759908
I see them trained for urban ops, essentially Astarte SWAT.

>null version
Maybe with nulls, but I wouldn't make it a everyones-one thing.


>>48759965
The thing is blanks & nulls (not only wouldn't attract the attention and favour of chaos) but are unnerving to be around, the Warmaster was meant to be pretty charismatic (I think?) and blanks are not that.

If its for the stability of Terra, it would be easier to hand wave away with the golden throne or even when the Big E ascended a massive psychic explosion engulfed the planet, and even after 40k years the warp still hasnt been able to properly claim it. or some such.

>>48760379
>>48760379
>>48760379
>>48760379
pic

>>48760634
>but [Redacted] is a null.
That is retarded.
How could the chosen of chaos be a null.
Like think about it.
Think.
Do it.
And see how its retarded.

You guys were much better off with having the replacement grey knights be nulls.

This is just lunacy.

>>48760634
uhm.

That doesn't seem like a great idea to me. Can we perhaps find a work around?

>>48760332
He was a lone guardsmen who stood alone against a monstrous foe for what he believed in during the final moments of the Heresy when all seemed lost. Again, he may not have even existed in this AU, but his story does. And it inspires the small resistances/order cults that spring up now and again. He doesn't have to be important (perpetual, Cabal bullshit) but his story is important to some parts of the setting. Not even all of it.

Speaking of voices of dissent within the Dark Imperium, would Malal priests based on those vitriolic fire and brimstone pastors that say literally everything gets you sent to hell be too political?

>>48760735
>He was a lone guardsmen who stood alone against a monstrous foe for what he believed in during the final moments of the Heresy when all seemed lost. Again, he may not have even existed in this AU, but his story does. And it inspires the small resistances/order cults that spring up now and again. He doesn't have to be important (perpetual, Cabal bullshit) but his story is important to some parts of the setting.

Dig it.

>>48760647
>Mechanicum Politics
That could work, but I was more getting at the fact that given that the Fists are in charge of the Mechanicum, it would mean that they were in charge of all the other legion's and thus crusader state's Forges. It strikes me as weird that given their feuding and suspicion this could stand as the state of affairs for very long.

>Eyes
Urban warfare is pretty cool. And nah, I'd more meant that the same way the the Sky Serpents have more librarians than the average legion, the Eyes would have more nulls.

>Corrupting the Warmaster
Well, keep in mind that in this setting, the Warmaster seeks out chaos after Oramar shows him some weird shit. Warmaster just thinks it round be good for a rebellion.

And maybe he's the Warmaster because the Emperor thinks he'd keep an eye on everyone. With Faustus being all weird, Oramar going nuts, Kor being whiny, the Emperor may figure that he'll put the covert ops guy in charge. He's a null, so it's not like he'll get corrupted by chaos, right?

>>48760672
>>48760867
But he's not the chosen of chaos.

Like what if someone else was supposed to be the chosen of chaos, but because the Warp couldn't see the Warmaster, he accidently crashed their plans by coming to them.

Unless we want him as the chosen of chaos, in which case, yeah, no way in hell he's a null.

>>48760634
>>48760947
I'm not feeling it. The Warmaster is the Emperor of Chaos. I could see some sort of psychic damping making him resistant to the mind-corrupting influence of chaos making him very good at dealing with them, but I think being a flat-out null is too much.

>>48760647
>but are unnerving to be around, the Warmaster was meant to be pretty charismatic (I think?) and blanks are not that.
I think he's supposed to be more manipulative than charismatic. He doesn't ask subordinates to do stuff so much as subtly convince them.

>>48760867
The way I saw it (and did explain in my deleted post!!!)
Was that forgeworlds owed tithes of production to their "protectors" or the regents of whatever area.

Either the senior member of the forge ie: fabricator general held fealty to that organisation (ie: it was run by a techmarine from the legion)
OR they were overseen by a techmarine from the legion.

If they failed to deliver on tithes they were going against mechanicus law. the overseer would ensure they don't try anything funny, like amassing an army without cause.

But yes, the Mechanicum would retain authority over the forgeworlds, they would just have certain obligations to everyone else.

Like we talked about during the first threads - the Mechanicum still holds the monopoly, the other legions still send marines to be trained by them (for the most part), but in an attempt to seek independence the legions also try to pass down knowledge and learning from among their own ranks. Tech-marine training tech-marine in the Legions SOPs. Which has led to some variance, but at the end of the day the Mech still hold legal authority over the forges. They have to, or we should just cut them for being obsolete.

>>48761027
Either way, if Nulls/Blanks are so off putting their parents murder them as babies, I don't see how people would even listen to a Primarch level Null

>>48761128
That's legit.

>>48761038
So then do the Fists see production levels from the other states? And what sort of control do the Fists have over the forgeworlds in other states?

is writefaggotry about custom space marine chapters allowed?

>>48761822
fuck yeah it is. Our population has dwindled a bit so fresh stuff is welcome.

as long as it's internally consistent with the setting

I am new to here

>>48761837
We're happy to answer any questions you have to help you wrap your head around the differences between IA and canon 40k. The summary near the top of the wiki page is a good start.

Chapter Master Darren had been looking at the warp, wondering what hideous daemons were there

You see, he was in charge of the two Knights inductor companies that had arrived to the Terra system, only to find out what had happened

"Brother, we have entered into the terra system! A Battle Barge is approaching us! It seems to have the colors and the designation of a Angry marine Battle Barge, "The Litany of Litanys Litany?"

"Holy... GET TO THE BRIDGE RECRUIT, THAT IS AN ORDER" replied chapter master darren. His thoughts were racing, the last time that he had encountered that damned barge, his ship was destroyed, 200,000 lives were lost, and he was left in the vacuum of space for 12 hours, nearly dieing

sorry if it doesn't seem good, it is my first try at writefaggotry

>>48762023
>>48762010
>>48761976
>>48761917
Try writing it all up before you post it.

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>>48761496
Well the Fists wouldn't.

Ill draw up a diagram to explain how I see the overlap.

as he raced to the bridge, captain darren smoked his pipe, and ordered all of the fury fighters on his barge to intercept the vessel "Hail it in all frequencies!" Darren said. "Aye sir" the astropath/ operator replied, with sweat gleaming from his brow.

>>48761890
>>48761917
>>48761976
>>48762010
>>48762023
>>48762061

first, please don't multipost. It pushes us to the bump limit faster for no reason and makes your stuff harder to read. Try to fit as much as you can into single posts.

second, I don't think Angry Marines are canon.

>>48762088
>angry marines
Oh shit, I didn't even see that.

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>>48761837
Welcome friend.

He hailed the Litany of Litanys Litany, very nervously that is. When the barge responded, he looked at the marine, donning his distict red and yellow armour,with the words written "FUCK YOU" or 'YOUR ASS HERE' with a deep breath, chapter master darren said" Ah, yes Chapter MAster, you too had come to stop the chaos incursion?" The master replied " YOU COCKSUCKING HERETICAL FAGGOTS! I'LL HAVE YOUR ARSES ON STICKS AND I'LL ALSO BURN YOU! YOU KNOW WHAT- YOUR CHAPTER IS RUBBISH! ALL YOU DO IS (in a mocking tone) "oh yes please lets negotiate and have a cup of wine hurr hurr hurr, lets camaflouge :D" THATS WHAT YOU SOUND LIKE YOU FAGGOTS! ALL OF YOU ARE ALSO FUCKING HERETIC PANSIES FOR WEARING CAMAFLOUGE!"

Captain darren was shocked "are you... you fucking idiots! your anger is the reason that you have the most casualties in all of the space marine chapters dammit! you use unsafe methods like your angry marine launcher, which cause brain damage, you shoot down imperial ships which you deem "heretics' and you also destroyed my ship, and 200,000 live s were lost that day!"

The transmission abruptly ended, and the bridge rocked with the effect of an explosion. Darren said" Brothers.... negotiation has failed... the angry marines are a threat to us and the imperium.... lock on weapons, launch fury fighters to disable, and prepare the boarding parties." he said. The battle was to begin

i have to go now, i will contunue tommorrow, i hope you like this, sorry if it is terrible

>>48761038
>>48761496
Hey fists here, just woke up. In much earlier threads i talked about this, basically the fists own those planets but can't possibly have a presence on all of them or they would be far too stretched thin. What the fists do is call you up and tell you that forge world belongs to us and so long as you agree that it does we won't bother you and we will pay you a tithe of production. The skitarii will chill on the forge worlds to be the defensive force of the world and maybe a some fists will drop by to check it out when needed.
>>48762056
Raydon as usual has my back. That's exactly how it is just remember that the FoM are always trying to push for control over the mechanicus.
>>48755755
Much of the Legio Cybernetica has been folded into production for Fists as their preferred tactics rely heavily on machines of war. What isn't given to the fists work in tandem with Skitarii or are used as personal guard for magos who can afford them
>>48757046
Do you mean MIU?
>>48757360
>>48760647
>>48760867
Its part of the whole FoM thing that they owned all the forge worlds, in a roundabout way.
>>48762088
>>48762050
>>48762245
as they said don't write so little in each post, also i don't feel like your keeping the spirit of these threads

i am new here, so i am sorry if i break any rules

...Why are people responding semi-seriously to this guy?

He's obviously trolling. Just ignore him.

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>>48762335
D'aww, it's a newfag.

>>48762346
Or maybe it isn't. Either way.

>>48762056
>>48762317
Ah, got you.

And no, I mean Manifold. Skitarii and Magi are depicted as having neural access to an AR space, which they call a Manifold, I think any sort of virtual space that is entered into via an MIU is one, but I'm not sure quite what defines it.

Anyways, what I'm asking is 'do the Fists have a nouspheric connection with each other comparable to the one that the Skitarii have?'

>Cybernetica Cohorts

I think it would be pretty neat if they were deployed in Chapters.like prime universe space marines.

>>48762537
>do the Fists have a nouspheric connection with each other comparable to the one that the Skitarii have?

uh, maybe?
I mean if you want them to sure, if it opens up more issues than its worth then no I guess.

You could say no, because a crucial component of joining the manifold is the cybernetic upgrades to the mind, however its not worth giving those upgrades to astartes because of there genetic enhancements.

So they could have something similar but different?

I mean, figure out what does the most for the AU and we can find a way to make it work.

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Lazarus Mundain, Equerry to the Warmaster

Lazarus is the face of a faceless man. When the Warmaster wishes to speak publicly, issue formal orders, or do anything for which there will be a permanent Imperial record, he does so through his Master of the Legion, Lazarus.

Lazarus is Terran born, and has served as Master of the Legion since the very first days of the Adeptus Astartes. Aside from the Primarchs, he is the highest ranking and most respected soldier in the Imperium. He is a master of psychological manipulation, both of his own men and of the enemies of the Warmaster. His Hitleresque speeches are broadcast all across the Imperium in Imperial Navy morale broadcasts.

After the Heresy, Lazarus is the voice of the Warmaster and the Dark Gods, speaking their will to the people of the Dark Imperium. He oversees the Inquisitorial forces of the Eyes of the Warmaster, and is the chief commander in the hunt for Ollanius Pius and his resistance. He is the visible face of rulership in the Dark Imperium.

Joseph Goebbels + Heinrich Himmler + Mouth of Sauron

>>48762919
Lazarus is actually the Warmaster

>>48762948
Exactly what I was thinking

>>48762961
I see the Warmasters meetings/councils being an assembly of the top commanders and VIPS.

But the 4 top commanders are actually various aliases for himself, so their seats are filled by actors.

The Warmaster himself would be a 'trusted' lieutenant who is pretending to be the Warmaster.

The 4 other guys who are important and are actually the people they claim to be

And 1 scribe / statue, who is actually the warmaster in disguise, who oversees the meetings without anyone knowing.

>>48763075
I like it, dven the Eyes don't know who the Warmaster is.

If you wish to keep a secret, tell *no one*

>>48763075
That's extremely cool.

>>48762635
Legit. That was more a detail question.

>>48763075
Hells yes.

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Just a little something I put together to demonstrate how I see the Iron Hearts outfitting themselves.

Does anyone else see them being the masters of close action firepower?

>>48765008
Hmm, there's an error on there. Fixing.

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>>48765008
>>48765113
Fixed version.

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Saul anon here, thinking about what I should write. Unfortunately I've now divided my passion in this project between three things

The Second Sons (obviously), the Collective (robot faction), and this new Ollanius Pius resistance. I've got three things I'm interested in writing but I only have the time to write one right now. Armageddon and the Fall of the Sons, the first contact between the galaxy and the Collective, or a Dark Imperium Inquisitor chasing down "Ollanius Pius".

Which should I do first?

>>48765314
I say do Armageddon, but I'm terribly biased for reasons that should be obvious.

>>48765314
Drop the collective and put your effort in the other two

>>48765314
Armageddon for sure. Did you read >>48752163?
It's just a brief little excerpt of Saul on Armageddon.

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>>48765434
>>48765548
>>48765640
One descent into madness, coming right up. Well, not right up, expect something pastebinny tomorrow night.

In the meantime, let's talk a little more about Armageddon. Who exactly is there and why is the situation so absolutely FUBAR?

>>48765717
>In the meantime, let's talk a little more about Armageddon. Who exactly is there and why is the situation so absolutely FUBAR?

I thought about that a little bit. Here's a scenario I came up with. It's not necessarily good, but it's something.

When the invitations for the Tournament of Blades are sent out, some legions are engaged in battle at the time. Such is the case for the Second Sons, Undying Scions, and Behemoth Guard, who are attempting to defeat an ork WAAAGH on Armageddon at the time. The Second Sons leave the bulk of their legions behind, leaving Gengrat in command, while they bring their honor guards to the tournament. After the Tournament, they rush back to Armageddon to rejoin their legions, and find the Behemoth Guard have turned traitor as well and are slaughtering their legions.

>>48765811
When does Aodhan have his duel with Sarco then? I thought that that was happening at the same time as the Tournament of Blades but I guess I'm mistaken.

>>48765849
It's supposed to be just after the tourney on what's called the 'Red Road to Terra,' where everyone is at Cadia but wants to be at Terra, and they fight along the way. It's where/when the real large-scale battles of the heresy take place, and lasts presumably at least a couple months/years depending on how long the heresy lasts.

>>48765811
Naw, the Second Sons are really anti-warrior culture. They see themselves as soldiers doing a job. I doubt they would even have an honor guard in that way, let alone send them to go ponce around in the middle of a war.

>>48765958

They might not care about the tourney, but as it's sort of in honor of the Warmaster maybe they'd attend out of duty? Until now we've just sort of assumed that they attend.

>>48766023
Of all the legions, the Second Sons would be the least likely to attend. Especially during a campaign. Honor doesn't mean shit to Saul or the Sons. Hence the burning and nuking.

>>48766055
Well that certainly makes sense, I'll give you that.

So all the flippant bastards are off playing on Cadia while Sarco, Saul, and Gengrat stay serious (though Gengrat's there for treachery)

If the Behemoth Guard were going to turn on their allies in the middle of a war, how would they do it? I'm not sure.

Overall though I think the insane scale of destruction of Gengrat and Saul's kaiju battle should be what pushes Saul over the edge.

>>48753189
Wait what? Gellar fields can do that?

>>48766164
>>48766055

They'd do something utterly horrific. How about this:

Gengrat suggests that they take the Orks in a pincer movement and wipe them out in the crossfire. However, shortly after the action begins, Behemoth Guard Hereteks release data-djinns and scrapcode into the network, disrupting communications and targeting across the Second Sons battle fleet. In the next few seconds, Behemoth Guard terminators teleport aboard a battleship of the Second Sons, one of their death-arks, filled with nuclear weapons, biotoxins, and chemical weapons, and slaughter the bridge crew before spiking the reactor and setting the thing to fall out of orbit directly on the Second Sons' formation. It appears accidental and in the confusion, orbital bombardments go wild, scorching the planet and vaporizing entire loyalist armored columns.
On the surface, the Behemoth Guard never actually launch their attack and the entire force of Orks charges towards the Second Sons line even as starships fall from the sky and the air becomes a searing poison fog. As the death-ark hits, the Orks are in direct combat with the Second Sons.
A sizable portion of the legion is wiped out in an instant along with most of the orks, but even as radioactive ash rains down on the battlefield, more orkz swarm the well protected Second Sons lines. They were expecting WMDs anyways, so they were ready to some extent. But the orks just keep coming, even as they turn to foul sludge. And just as the Second Sons are running low on ammo, and the now horribly burnt and mutated Orks threaten to overwhelm them, they see dust plumes on the horizon!
It's the Behemoth Guard! Their allies, coming to save them, they must have fought their way through the entire ork line to help them in this darkest of moments.
And then they open fire, shelling Second Sons positions. Second Sons commanders try to vox the Behemoth Guard, calling their friends by name and recieve only strange whispers and laughter.

>>48766501
Wait, where does Sarco fit into this.

>>48766575
We just really really want a kaiju fight.

>>48766575
He might be on the other side of the planet, Aodhan's responsibility or he's on the same front as the Second Sons, but I think the Behemoth Guard treat malice and sick fuckery as a fine art, and so want the Second Sons to suffer alone and have that moment of despair when their only possible salvation comes to kill them.

Probably, the Behemoth Guard drops some star ships in the Undying Scions' theatre as well, but I think Aodhan is the sort to want to try and turn his friend himself and give him a good death, as opposed to death by star ship falling on you.

>>48766501
This has similar structure to Betrayal at Calth. I dig it.

>>48766575
>>48766626
Maybe Sarco and his sons warp into the system as this is happening, fresh from Sarco's duel with Aodhan.

>>48766626
I know, so there's the Behemoth Guard fighting the Scions openly at some point.

So, where does that fit into this whole thing.

Xun's outline is pretty good, but let's streamline and expand it a little. Make a little more cohesive.

I'll write my own version tomorrow morning. In the mean time, I gotta get to sleep.

>>48766699
>>48766705
This could work. The Scions ride in as the cavalry to save the Second Sons, only to find them beyond saving.

>>48766626
>>48766677
Oh, yeah, the Kaiju fight comes later, after the planetary weather systems go nuts. I'm thinking the opening moves of the battle unleash a crazy set of weather conditions and the remains of the loyal legions are able to withdraw. Part of this is intentional-- Gengrat wants to drive Saul mad in hopes he'll join him, but also Sarco and his boys are just tough mother fuckers. Sarco isn't dying, so Gengrat descends on wings of fire to take care of the job personally.

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>What legion does your legion enjoy working with the most pre-heresy? Post heresy?

>What legion does your legion end up working with the most pre-heresy? Post heresy?

>What legion does your legion hate the most and avoid working with pre-heresy? Post Heresy?

>>48766677
This is good.

I want to see Gengrats plan go perfectly. Every piece falling into place, the Second Sons apparently crumbling, Saul ought to be cracking at just the right time. Everything just going nightmarishly perfect. Then, out of the haze, the flashes and fires. The Behemoth Guard were thick in the melee with the remaining Sons and the arrived Scions and the orcs, but in an instant everything seems to freeze. Nukes go off in the middle of the scrums, vaporizing thousands on every side. Gengrat has miscalculated how Saul would crack. Instead of imploding suicidally, he's exploding omnicidally.

The Guard walk away with a weird Pyrrhic victory. The Scions were defeated along with the orcs, but a huge chunk of their forces are now dead or dying of rad poisoning, but they also gained a new ally in the Fallen Second Sons.

>>48766789
I'm not so sure on these. The perfect formations of jetbike strafing runs works well with holding-pattern legions like the Storm Hammers or Knights Exemplar. Alexios wouldn't like working with anyone who openly uses sorcery in battle, as he's quite superstitious about psykers.

Just some stuff in lost treasures of the galaxy.

>The Oramaic Verses
The traitor Oramar, though perfidious and morbid, was a great scholar of the immaterium, possessed of an understanding of Chaos and Warp-lore that few could ever hope to match. Though the Primarch is now lost to all those who would seek his knowledge, Oramar recorded much of his findings in the alternating prose and poetry of the Oramaic Verses. Divided between thirteen volumes bound in slender wraithbone and written in a language of the Primarch’s own devising, these unparalleled insights into the nature of the Warp and its inhabitants survived their author’s demise, fate conspiring to scatter them throughout the galaxy. Few have ever witness the opening of an Oramaic volume, and fewer still can claim to comprehend the Primarch’s writings, but legend says that he who possesses all thirteen tomes would stand at the cusp of true understanding.

>The Heart-Taker
One of the Volksmesser, twelve ancient relic blades taken by the Negators as plunder during the Great Crusade. Used by the Primarch Aodhán as a throwing-arm, the Heart-Taker was a spear of deep crimson metal, its blade seething with esoteric rending energies. Possessed of an uncanny accuracy, the Heart-Taker was capable of laying low several ranks of warriors with a beam of searing volkite energies. It was lost at the outset of the Heresy, on the world of Malphas, when Aodhán hurled the blade into Sarco Funerus’ shoulder. Though it would stand to reason that the Undying Scions have possession of the storied weapon, its exact fate is unknown.

>>48767088
>The Saturnine Blade
The Saturnine Blade was the finest of the Volksmesser, renowned for its razor edge and perfect balance, and for the baleful energies that slept within the blade. Seeming to contort natural laws around its edge, it glowed with a dusky light that provided no illumination, and seared cleanly through the armour of foes while somehow remaining cool to the touch. Gifted to the Primarch Raydon Neratos by his brother Aodhán, the current whereabouts of the weapon after Raydon’s death is unknown, though there is a popular folk legend regarding its status. According to this tale, Kashaln of the Silver Spears kept the weapon as a trophy and sidearm, until one day Aodhán spied it on his person and flew into a berserk rage, assaulting his daemon brother and declaring that his Astartes would be well rewarded for every drop of Silver Spears blood they spilled that day. Supposedly, the blade was lost in the ensuing battle.

>The Heart of Rubinek
Any loyal citizen of the Crusade States knows the ultimate fate of Rubinek – how he fought his brother Xun and, blind with hate, was struck down, his heart doused in holy flame and offered up to the glory of the Emperor. What is not widely known, however, is that Rubinek’s heart refused to melt, resisting all attempts and destruction – and, most disturbingly of all, it continued to beat long after his body succumbed to death. According to legend, the heart was spirited away beyond the Ghoul Stars, entombed in orbit around a pale star in a system barren of all life. There is little to substantiate the claim, but this has not stopped several rogues and treasure-hunters from sailing out into the perilous stretch of space in search of Rubinek’s still-beating heart.

>>48767121
>The Heart of Rubinek
METAL
AS
FUCK

>>48767121
>Raydon and The Iron Tears
Across the worlds of the Protectorate, legends speak of Marshal Drusilla Traynor, one of the first Lawbringers to heft an engramic cannon in service to the realm. Few are more well-known and eagerly told than that of her arcane weapon – supposedly named Raydon, in reverence of the Crimson Warhawks Primarch and his Eternal Crusade. Some say she forged the hand-cannon under the guidance of the Emperor himself, others that she parlayed with the Dark Gods for the secrets of its construction. Either way, few doubt its power. Raydon, when loaded with the Iron Tears, the only eight rounds that would fit its chamber, could kill – kill, not merely banish – any daemon that had the misfortune of meeting its wielder. Lady Traynor’s end is shrouded in mystery, the Marshal disappearing into the void, but her weapon was handed down her daughter, who vanished soon after. Raydon and his Iron Tears have been missing ever since.

>The Immaculata
Before the Heresy, the Mechanicus were involved in a great many archaeological projects across known space, collecting, cataloguing and enshrining relics of the ages past. The Immaculata was the name given to an immense voidcraft discovered on the moon of Clypsos II, seemingly an ancient precursor to the Ark Mechanicus design of warship. Boasting technologies beyond comprehension of any techpriest, it nonetheless seemed unsalvageable – until the final days of the Heresy. As the Loyalists fled the inner sectors of the Imperium, the Fists of Mars passed by Clypsos II in the hopes of collecting its Skitarii garrison. Instead they became embroiled in a pitched battle with the combined navies of the Judgement Bringers and the Iron Hearts. As they prepared to quit the field and leave the moon to the Traitors, the Immaculata broke the planetoid’s atmosphere, its esoteric weaponry tearing through the Traitor fleet. Unresponsive to hails, the vessel plunged into the Warp, never to be heard from again.

>>48766789
>What legion does your legion enjoy working with the most pre-heresy? Post heresy?

The Knights Exemplar, and Negators, and Second Sons.

Post Heresy, Sky Serpents & FoM, as well as adopting some of the remnants of the Knight Exemplar.

>What legion does your legion end up working with the most pre-heresy? Post heresy?

They work with the Second Sons fairly extensively - comparitively, being outriders they don't spend a lot of time working with other Legions in general.

Post Heresy would be the Knights Exemplar, having adopted some remnants into their fleets, or the Fists of Mars who they resupply / refit from.

>What legion does your legion hate the most and avoid working with pre-heresy? Post Heresy?

Preheresy: Raydon personally couldn't stand being around Oramar, but as for whole legions, Behemoth guard and Silver Spears.

Postheresy: All traitors are the same. All "neutral" factions are traitors. They adopt a strong "if you're not with us, you're against us" mentality.

>>48767174
>>Raydon and The Iron Tears
Across the worlds of the Protectorate, legends speak of Marshal Drusilla Traynor, one of the first Lawbringers to heft an engramic cannon in service to the realm. Few are more well-known and eagerly told than that of her arcane weapon – supposedly named Raydon, in reverence of the Crimson Warhawks Primarch and his Eternal Crusade. Some say she forged the hand-cannon under the guidance of the Emperor himself, others that she parlayed with the Dark Gods for the secrets of its construction. Either way, few doubt its power. Raydon, when loaded with the Iron Tears, the only eight rounds that would fit its chamber, could kill – kill, not merely banish – any daemon that had the misfortune of meeting its wielder. Lady Traynor’s end is shrouded in mystery, the Marshal disappearing into the void, but her weapon was handed down her daughter, who vanished soon after. Raydon and his Iron Tears have been missing ever since.

You mothafuka. I wrote up a short story about the Sky Serpents creating a prototype ammunition / weapon that could *kill* demons. But Chaos being chaos finds out and destroys the whole planet, scattering the bits across the stars.

And a Warhawk commander who spends hundreds of years tracking them down, to one-day use on the Demon-Primarchs.

>>48767178
I imagine that post-heresy the warhawks get most of their naval assets from the shipyards of the Unyielding Vigil, seeing as they have no territory of their own.

>>48767255
O fuck.

I guess I'll scrub that one out.

>>48767310
The name's a bit goofy too desu senpai

>>48767289
Thats workable, I saw them as maintaining the fleets they already had through the Fists.

The do maintain 3 Star Forts, 1 of which remains in Forge Space.

>>48767310
The two ideas are mutually exclusive. As you say its folk lore. Maybe its a legend spawned by the quest.

I just stole the idea from S1 of supernatural

>>48767322
I did look at it just now and it does kinda read like the name for a screamo metal fusion band.

>>48767330
...I also stole the idea from there.

Welp.

>>48767359
Could you do a blurb for the Baleful Blade? I feel like you do it much better than I could.

Just Negators relics this time.

>Old Man Minos
A relic of Aodhán’s early life on Nusku, Old Man Minos was the Primarch’s personal steed during his campaign against the planet’s abhuman rulers. Nusku was littered with anarcheotech artefacts which the planet’s brutal ruling cast forced its human population to dig up and maintain for them, and few were greater than Old Man Minos. In fact a Minos Pattern Battle Tank, the relic is an MBT from the days of the Dark Age. Essentially a roving fortress, Old Man Minos is in a state of extreme disrepair, many of its onboard systems utterly dysfunctional, its hull littered with patchy attempts to keep the war machine in fighting form. Despite this, however, it remains a terror on the battlefield – in the rare instances when a lucky Astartes can get it to work. Boasting rows of side-mounted Neutron Lasers and a frontal Antimatter Cannon capable of reducing Titans to little more than flaming wrecks, Old Man Minos is protected by layer upon layer of flickering void shields. When it can be goaded into activity, it serves as a spearhead to the Negators’ forces, annihilating all in its path under thunderous volleys from barely-understood weapons.

>The Volksmesser
Yadda yadda twelve ancient weapons etc etc I’ve detailed them before and I’ll come back to their entry later.

>Beldam
Unearthed by Aodhán on his home planet, the Beldam is an arcane volkite weapon similar in appearance to the Serpenta, though sleeker and more compact. It was used by Aodhán as a sidearm for much of the Great Crusade, before the Volksmesser were discovered. Capable of instantly immolating several ranks of foes in a single shot, the weapon could be set to spread its fire into a searing wave of heat. How precisely this function is accessed is unknown, only Aodhán seeming to master it, and to most whether the Beldam fires a concentrated beam or a torrent of immolating energies seems mostly random.

>>48767434
Sure.

Just to be sure, it wasn't the Avatar that messed Sarco up, right? It was a Phantom?

>>48767774
Correct.

>>48767812
>The Baleful Blade
A relic of the Undying Scions' distant past, the Baleful Blade is the subject of both reverence and melancholy - it exists not only as a testament to their Primarch's strength, but also a sobering reminder of his early hubris. Ripped from the heart of the Craftworld Mor-rioh'i in retribution for their Sarco's crippling at their hands, the Baleful Blade was once wielded by the Craftworld's Avatar of War. Even after the destruction of the foul icon, the burnished blade continued to burn with an unquenchable fire, and it was taken up the Scions' Primarch as his personal weapon. Now kept cloistered on Amaranth among the greatest relics of Sarco's life, the Baleful Blade continues to serve the Legion. Normally inert, it is hung above an immense map of the known galaxy, the blade is constantly under watch, for its fiery awakenings are thought to have prophetic value - where the drops of flame from the relic's blade fall, there will the Baleful Blade be borne, the Undying Scions that it conveys the will of their Primarch in singling out where its power is most needed. It is in these times that the Bladeful Blade is conveyed from its rest into the hands of a hero of the Legion, filling them with its blazing strength, and the sword of Sarco Funerus once again sees the field of battle.

>>48768594
Urgh, there are some ugly typos in there.

I'm pretty exhausted.

>>48768618
>>48768594
>>48767774
>>48767759
>>48767178
>>48767255
>>48767174
>>48767121
>>48767088
VANTH you have inspired me to get around to putting down the gifts Marcus makes for his brothers, im gonna work on that now

>>48768691
On that note i went looking through the wiki to find info on everyone. Can someone tell me what we know of the warmaster? what was he like before the herasy?

>>48768887
There's some discussion him and his legion in the thread, >>48762919 >>48763075

Essentially he's a sneeki breeki. Nobody knows what he looks like or even his name. He never appears in person, always dealing with people through intermediaries of agents. Only a handful of even the primarchs have met him, and some of them are convinced the Warmaster they met wasn't even the real one. He takes Luna from Faustus and his Oathsworn by sending hundreds of infiltrators and causing them to fight themselves.

>>48769043
I thought taking Luna was before Faustus was officially 'found'? Not that it matter much, he did take the entire moon and force him to surrender to the Emperor.

>>48769092
>I thought taking Luna was before Faustus was officially 'found'?
It's a muddle of conflicting stuff from the early threads. The Warmaster taking Luna predates someone coming up with Faustus being from Luna, and the two ideas were never really revisited to make them compatible.

My current headcanon is that Faustus is unifying his lunar empire while the Emperor is unifying his Terran one with the Warmaster. Once Earth is more or less unified they turn toward Luna as their first extra-terran compliance, and the Emperor chooses to give command of the operation to the Warmaster to see how good he is at warmastering.

>>48768887
I think the one thing we really know about him is that we don't know anything about him.

I'd say he's a poor personal fighter, but even that is probably in question.

Scions successor chapters are really fun to make.

>Adamantine Knights
An oddity among the Scions successors in that, rather than becoming endeared to death, the high number of Interred among the Chapter have resulted in them valuing the gift of life more highly than most of their fellows. Staunch protectors and paragons, the Adamantine Knights boast the largest Terminator detachments out of any Undying Scions successor Chapter.

>White Lions
A relatively young successor Chapter, the White Lions have surprisingly few Interred members for a Scions Chapter. The Lions' historians place great emphasis on the parables of their Primarch's early life, and strive to emulate his prowess as hunters, resulting in a knack for mobile, fast-assault tactics.

>Hands of the Immortal
A fleetbound Chapter with a finely-honed tradition of precise drop pod insertion behind enemy lines. Heavily depleted after the 07th Fist of Mars Battalion and the 01st Talonic Macroclade opened fire upon them during the latter stages of the 13th Crusade, claiming that the Hands were engaged in "tech-heresy of a foul and most subversive nature." The truth of this statement is presently unknown.

>Sentinels
Epitomizing the ethos of the Vigil as a bulwark against Chaos, the Sentinels are masters of defensive tactics, their infantry holding the line with a mixture of prudent decision-making and iron grit while their artillery blasts the enemy into submission from behind.

>Shield Bearers
Fanatics to the cult of the Interred, the Shield Bearers have comparatively few dreadnoughts among them. Their sacred duty is to recall the legends and undying service of those Interred that have been smitten beyond the help of the sarcophagus, each Marine given a name and a livery that continues the legacy of such a fallen Brother, their past lives erased.

>>48771034
>Iron Regents
Even by the standards of other Scions successors, the Iron Regents boast an extraordinary number of Interred Marines, their uninterred a mere skeleton force. They prize the overwhelming strength of the dreadnought, and favour close quarters engagement where this iron-wrought might is most evident, delighting in the superiority of plasteel over flesh. The Iron Regents are quite famous for their use of broad-bladed power glaives, capable of scything effortlessly through several ranks of lesser foes in a single sweep.

>Sin-Eaters
The Sin-Eaters are the result of a rare and highly ironic gene-seed malfunction – many among the Chapter are unable to be properly Interred. Those that can invariably become erratic and strange, requiring the constant supervision and care of their uninterred brothers. On a constant quest to prove themselves, the Sin-Eaters are rarely at full strength, and favour dangerous close-assault tactics. They have a remarkable number of psykers among their ranks for an Undying Scions successor Chapter.

>Dust Striders
The Dust Striders know that flesh is weak, and they seek to transcend it. Viewing their mortal bodies as a mere temporary convenience, they utilize a gratuitous overabundance of rad-weaponry and viral agents, and care little for friendly fire if it means the utter destruction of their foes. Flesh is dust, but plasteel and adamantium endure, so what does it matter if they contaminate their own bodies? To the Dust Striders, their uninterred lives are brief flames to be burned as brightly and fast as possible.

>>48771043
>Vigilators
Almost entirely fleetbound, the Vigilators have made it their sacred duty to patrol just beyond the borders of Unyielding Vigil territory, keeping a constant watch for the encroachment of traitors and xenos. Their tactics are mostly typical of Undying Scions successors, utilizing large numbers of dreadnoughts alongside support detachments of uninterred heavy weapon teams. They have a particular fondness for Deredeo Pattern dreadnoughts.

>Cyclopes
Recognizable by the sigil of the watchful eye, the Cyclopes are a mystery, somehow specializing in rapid redeployment despite boasting a grand number of Interred brothers even by Scion standards. How they achieve this miracle is as of yet unknown, the Chapter spending much of its time campaigning through the upper Tempestus zone, far from anything resembling a coherent Loyalist command structure, as is the method by which they leave nothing of their foes but fields of dust.

>Tomb Kings
Mostly unremarkable save for their grisly custom of bedecking their dreadnought chassis’ in the bones of their fallen foes, the Tomb Kings are by all accounts a standard example of an Undying Scions’ successor Chapter. If there is any peculiarity unique to them, it would be their slight fondness for the use of Lightning Claws.

>>48771061
>Dragon’s Teeth
[RECORDS EXPUNGED] [EXCOMMUNICATUS HERETICUS] [RECORDS EXPUNGED]

>Talons of Funerus
The Talons of Funerus are subject to a similar gene-seed mutation as their brothers of the Sin-Eaters, unable to Inter their fallen members without risking severe consequences. In the case of the Talons, their Interred almost invariably experience a violent psychic awakening upon integration into the holy sarcophagus. Some do not survive this process, but most simply become living dynamos of crackling psychic energy, their perceptions jerked out of synch with material reality. The Interred of the Talons move with unnatural speed, but, ironically, their bifurcated senses often mean that they react slowly to the events of the mortal world. The Talons of Funerus are engaged in a constant campaign of pre-emptive defence in the upper Tempestus.

B U M P

>>48771034
>>48771043
>>48771061
>>48771068
I love these, thanks a lot.

Lieutenant Chavs was a inquisitorial stormtrooper, well, formerly one, he had risen up to the ranks, and he ruled over a segment of space formerly abondoned, he had once served under a leader, but he had poisoned all of the former inquisitors and took control of their space. He had created a mighty, educated, benevolent, empire, but, this was to be challenged

He was a warlord! he ruled over this part of the Eastern Fringes. Oh, after years of oppression by the high lords of terra, and the stagnations that came from Mars, he was quite relived that terra became a chaos infested hellhole, not that he liked chaos, anyways. He had willing to actually cooperate with xenos! he had signed immigration treaties with the tau! They even had their own space marine chapter, The Galactic Raptors! and like how it is in 40k, all things must have a war.

>>48773378
>>48773434
Psst. The Inquisition doesn't exist in Imperium Asunder.

>>48773378
>>48773434
>>48773627
Clearly fucking with us at this point

i was the guy who wrote that, what i meant to say is that they were formerly inquisitors, and the main character was a former inquisitorial stormtrooper, i am a newfag, sorry for any confusion

Anyone here?

>>48776264
no

>>48776264
Yeap, I'm sort of around.

Pretty tired and busy at the moment so I won't be doing any writefaggotry for a bit.

>>48772894
Cool.

I've been thinking on the Funerary Guard name you proposed. Don't you think that might be better as a unique unit? Maybe an organization separate from the standard Chapter structure that has large groups functioning as attaches to Scions successors.

They'd be the ultimate keepers of 'core' Undying Scions lore and ritual and the people who keep tabs on the successor Chapters to make sure they're not straying too far from the adamantium path or falling into tech-heresy. On the battlefield they'd be super-elites with exotic tech and exceptional training, every one of them a dreadnought, and they'd have the task of guarding the most revered of Interred brothers.

What do you think?

>>48777068
I like it, maybe every successor chapter has at least a few Funerary Guard to keep traditions strong.

>>48777068
>every one of them a dreadnought

I meant veteran, not dreadnought.

These guys would have no Interred among them. They'd both be in charge of protecting particularly noteworthy Interred brothers and destroying those that are corrupted beyond salvation, so they'd have a lot of weaponry specialized for annihilating armoured targets that many other Scions and Scions successors would find kinda distasteful. Stuff like Arc Weapons, heavy yield Volkite arms that bypass armour and cook the pilot of a machine, etc etc. They might even use some heretek stuff to fight hereteks. Gauss weaponry is pretty fukken amazing at taking out armoured targets, after all.

>>48777122
Oh, right. I can see them as kind of a quasi-deathwatch in that case.

>>48777162
Yeah. I'm imagining them as sort of something between Honour Guard and Deathwatch. When the Chapter deploys, they head into battle with their charges. Outside of battle, they maintain tradition and keep watch for signs of malign influence.

I'm guessing they wouldn't openly be using heretek stuff, it'd be like a well-kept secret between Funerary Guard fraternities.

>>48765165
Quick thought:
>Pargashtan Grendel, Equerry of Rubinek
Pargashtan Grendel had been legion master at the time Rubinek was reunited with his legion. In many ways, Pargashtan represented what was best and worst in his legion. Dedicated, unrelenting, and tough, Pargashtan was also known for a rancorous disregard for anyone outside of his brotherhood.
Part of this, doubtlessly, was the genetic instability of the legion, for despite the Emperor's assurance that the legion would not be purged, even if their primarch proved unable to stabilize their gene-seed, but would instead be granted an honorable death in combat, Grendel feared that the Emperor would reneg on his promise should he discover the worst of the mutations.
As it was, Grendel was mostly bionic by the time his primarch came. The promise of salvation made him and the rest of of the legion fanatically loyal to Rubinek, regardless of where that path might lead.

>>48777247
Das cool. I imagine they're probably among the most fanatical of Legions, and the most tightly knit, since they really are pretty much on their own. Even if they've technically taken the Warmaster's side, they know he's not REALLY on their side at all - no one is.

Another thought on Funerary Guard. I imagine their primary weapons being these bigass polearm weapons like heavy maces, but with adamantium censers at their top, reminiscent of the kind used in Catholic ritual or certain funeral rites. The alchemical mixture they burn releases a sort of heady chaff that held them mess with people trying to target their charges on the battlefield, and when they strike something, they release a burst of intense heat capable of melting straight through most forms of armour. This way their standard weapon fulfills both the function of protecting the honoured Interred and destroying those that have strayed from the path.

>>48777446
That would be pretty badass. Might be kind of like a flamer with variable settings, like the thing the pytoclasts use or that Ork unit with a flamer and powers word setting. That way you could keep it topped off the whole battle and it wouldn't spill no matter how you swung it.

>>48777589
Ah yeah, forgot about Pyroclasts.

I imagine this being some seriously arcane tech. Maybe the base of the polearm has a tube that feeds into a backpack full of whatever incendiary mixture keeps this weapon going. It's cumbersome, unstable, but utterly devastating.

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By the by, what did you guys thing of the Sister Agathys in the 13th Crusade stuff? Too End Times or just the right amount of End Times?

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The Illuminators are a Twenty-First founding chapter of the Angels of Light, forged in the fires of battle against the Tau and the Paladins of Kor. Their base of operations is the battle barge Brightest Star, once personal vessel to the White Angel himself. The Illuminators are lead by Chapter Master Kyril Pastor, an implacable leader unacquainted with defeat.

Favoring Plasma and flamer weaponry, a strafing run from Illuminators jetbikes often leaves little but burning slag and charred corpses.Their battlecry is "His light is my beacon" and their armor is painted the luminous yellow hue of holy Terra's sun, trimmed in gold and white. Their emblem is a golden lantern, shining with rays of light.

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The Seraph Guard are a second founding chapter of the Angels of Light, chartered for the defense of New Constantine. From the orbital weapons grid to the marble parapets of ecclesiastical estates, the Seraph Guard defend their planet from any and all dangers.

Other space marine chapters among the Angels of Light look down on the Seraph Guard as lazy or cowardly, for few enemies ever make it so deep into Imperium Minorum. Once the honored and glorious personal guards of the Primarch, the Seraphim are now not much more than glorified arbites.

>>48779063
...I really hope I saved the stuff I wrote on a few of the other Angels successors fighting on the 13th Tempestus front.

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The Celestial Templars are a twelfth founding chapter of the Angels of Light. Chartered by the Emperor's Champion, Eulodius Rex, the Celestial Templars crusade eternally in Segmentum Tempestus, operating from their fortress monastery on the Vigil world of Cherun.

Unlike many other Angels chapters, the Templars do not share their fathers' opinions on sorcery. Their angelic chapter master still sometimes draws the attention of the God Emperor in battle, taking on his angelic aspect. Other sorcerors in the legion practice the art of Seraphbinding, allowing the Warp Spirits of the God Emperor temporary manifestations in realspace. When such spells are successful, the Celestial Templars are joined in battle by angelic hosts, shining gold and resplendent.

>>48779324
>>48779619
Nice.

I like that one of them isn't super duper glorious. The galaxy needs losers too.

>>48779818
Yeah, Imperium Minorum is as corrupt and opulent as the old Roman Empire. The Seraph Guard are the personal bodyguards and occasionaly outright thugs for hire of the corrupt oligarchs of New Constantine. They're real pieces of shit. I imagine some of them are even fat.

Ah, here we go, found 'em.

>Solar Lances
Marked by their aggressive approach to warfare and overutilization of jetbikes, the Solar Lances have often been accused of straying too far from the Codex Astartes, though they argue that they are simply practicing the Codex in the most apt manner possible. They maintain a close relationship with Forgespace authorities and favour the searing power of volkite weaponry, often campaigning near the Forgespace border of the Tempestus Gap.

>Celestial Fists
Deployed against the forces of the Behemoth Guard in their first campaigns, the Celestial Fists have become masters of endurance warfare and close-action heavy weapon usage. They are known for fielding large numbers of Devastator Marines, and are renowned for their accurate usage of massed lascannon fire.

>Knights Luciferous
Finding themselves facing the onrushing hordes of Hive Fleet Ancalagon soon after their Founding, the Knights Luciferous have become partial to the deployment of large-scale phosphex weaponry and rad-firepower. Favouring a large number of Terminators, the Knights Luciferous are masters of holding the line against superior numbers, and have often been reprimanded by other Angels of Light Successors for stubbornly defending civilian populations when more pressing tactical objectives are in play. Unsurprisingly, they are well-regarded by many planetary governors, associated with protection and security over retribution and fear.

>Imperators
Staunch proponents of the Codex Astartes, the Imperators have sloughed off much of their distant past as hyper-aggressive airborne cavalry, instead favouring an impeccably balanced force organization. Rigid, disciplined, and well-learned, the Imperators Chapter heavily values the skills of oration and leadership, and are well known for commanding large numbers of Angelus Auxilar, their Tactical Squads often operating as force commanders to regiments of well-ordered human auxiliaries.

>>48779945
Fill in the blanks on this guys as you will, by the way. Founding number, etc.

These are just vague ideas anyone can pick up of they like.

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>>48779945
Neat stuff. Successor chapters offer a lot of room for creativity.

I'm having a hard time coming up with successors. All I've got is the Guardians of the Apocalypse, and the rough idea of Big Daddy Marines. Anyone have any suggestions or anything?

>>48778086
Hell yeah.

>>48778907
Depends on just how endtimey we want it to be. But yeah, if we're going end times, then go full end times.

>>48780817
For Kor?

And I'm thinking that the Sky Serpents don't really do Sucessor Chapters in the traditional sense. Rather, their Tzokin Chapters had always been designed to be able to operate more or less independently, so they tend to give one or more Tzokin Chapters a patrol area and a place for a fortress monastery and go from there. But they're still numbered as chapters in the Legion and still operate as part of the Legion structure.

As the numbers have increased, new intermediary ranks above Chaptermaster have emerged, using the old calendrical system for titles: Katun, Baktun, etc. 20 Chapters in a Katun, 20 Katuns in a Baktun. At the top is Xun and the Legion Masters, of which there are two, and the intersecting power structure of the various legion Orders, like the Librarius, dueling society, techpriests, Information Warfare specialists, Jaguar Warriors, and so on.

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>>48780817
>The Outriders
At first only a handful of blaggards on the outer rim of the grey stars, paladins upset with the status quo flocked to the Outriders during the XIIth crusade against the false angels. The Outriders sympathized deeply with the plight of the Tau, and sought to end their genocide regardless of Anders and Alexios' cold war.

The Outriders operated deep in Tau core space for many years, never returning for resupply. Instead they maintained their own equipment using Tau resources. As the war dragged on, more and more paladins trickled in to join the Outriders. After the Tragedy of Vengeance, where Alexios was killed, the Outriders were forced to flee to the galactic north. The onslaught of vengeful angels keen for blood was too much.

Outriders fight with a powerful weapon: cloaking devices. Every five man paladin team carries a phase mirage generator, which hides them from the sight of enemies at range. They use this technology to aid in fighting retreats to rescue Tau civilians and government figures from Tau and Tau'n. Now the Outriders live in permanent Tau flotillas, striking against the Crusaders' with guerilla tactics.

>>48780817
>Blades of Kor
Sometimes there's an enemy you just can't negotiate with, a threat that you just can't allow to go on existing.
Orkz, Tyranids, Rak Gol, and other such threats are as much a plague on the Kor Protectorate as they are anywhere else and when these foes threaten the Protectorate, it is typically the Blades of Kor who are among the first to oppose them.
Since the full destruction of these threats typically requires a much larger force, the Blades of Kor specialize in delaying actions and defensive operations. Often, they will deploy from drop pods, armed with massive shields and heavy weapons to buy time for a civilian population to escape. Equipped for catastrophic wars, they also tend to be far more ready to employ highly destructive orbital bombardment for should an enemy like Orkz find a foothold, they will become that much harder to stop.

>>48781847
2 things.
1. I love that picture.
2. I love the Outriders.

>>48782709
I love this too.


Thanks guys. Gonna sit and write out some more stuff now. Should I expand on that Lawbringers story while I'm at it?

Been giving the Oathsworn some thought. They're basically the Emperor's Children crossed with the Ultramarines at this point, right?

>>48784825
Yeah, more or less, with extra gene-forged dragons.

>>48784856
Faustus being a fucking Nazi aside, does that mean they're the most popular legion to mortals? Like between the machine men, the radiation marines, and everyone else being weird, wouldn't the most numerous vanilla marines get along with everyone, especially mortals? Doing diplomatic duty, helping set up countries/garrisions since they're so numerous you can just leave a few behind and its whatever, all being the boring fucks everyone deals with?

>>48750591
and fingers on their elbows, lips in their armpits.

>>48785057
Excuse me? Sky Serpents weird?

Seriously though, yeah, they are. The idea is that there were just so many of them that when you said Space Marine, the average citizen thought of the Oathsworn, which is why the first step of the Warmaster's plan was a massive false flag operation to get Luna and Terra fighting.

>>48785116
And tentacles.

>>48781096
>And I'm thinking that the Sky Serpents don't really do Sucessor Chapters in the traditional sense. Rather, their Tzokin Chapters had always been designed to be able to operate more or less independently, so they tend to give one or more Tzokin Chapters a patrol area and a place for a fortress monastery and go from there. But they're still numbered as chapters in the Legion and still operate as part of the Legion structure.

So they don't do successor chapters, they just do something that's exactly identical to successor chapters in every way?

Would it be too much of a tacky thing to have my equerry betray me and take his troops to the Knights Exemplar or this universe's blackshield equivalent? Or should I make him some lower rank?

>>48786704
Pretty much yeah, though read the second part. The big difference is that the legion command structure extends above the chapter level. There's a full set of ranks for commanding multiple chapters and personnel are often exchanged laterally between chapters. There's also a single Legion Librarium, forge system, and chaplain, as well as other similar formations.
So they're closer even than the Unforgiven. When on the defensive, it looks a lot like 40k chapters, but when on the offensive, they operate as a legion. Heraldry varies by Tzokin Chapter, as does force composition and specialization, but that's the same thing they've been doing since Terra 10,000 years ago.
It's a decentralized structure to be sure, but it's a legion structure, not a bunch of chapters that form ad hoc coalitions.

>>48786898
Could work, set up his motives.

I've been messing around with a story about marines at the edge of the crusade, out of the loop, finding out about the Warmaster's betrayal and deciding what to do.

>>48788112
I had a reason for bringing that up. And I have no idea what it was.
Maybe it had something to do with motivations?

>>48786898
I like that idea a lot.

>>48786898
Pretty cool idea imo.

>>48786898
I think that's a good idea. Garviel Loken was part of Horus' inner circle and he stayed loyal to the Emperor.

>>48792181
>>48790912
>>48789008
>>48788131
There's probably a prompt in this...

>Traitor legions all had some loyalists and loyal legions all had some traitors. Who turned against their legion and why?

Do we have a name for the not-Inquisition?
I'm considering painting my deathwatch in Sky Serpents colors.

>>48795695
I think it's just the Inquisition, unless we're going with calling them the Abbeys

>>48792819
>Traitor legions all had some loyalists and loyal legions all had some traitors. Who turned against their legion and why?

I haven't given this a lot of thought, I had decided pretty early on that some did, but they were just killed off by their brothers. Raydon actually had a sort of internal policing force in the Spectres whose identies (and existance) were concealed from even their brothers. So unless it was one of them, its unlikely they would go far.

TLDR: Some turned traitor, but most of those who did died off. I could write up abit about a captain whose who ship goes rogue I guess.

Who's writing about the Second Sons on Armageddon?

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Bumpu

>>48798545
Seems legit. Slaneeshi?
I'd been thinking about a Sky Serpents commander who pulls an Oramar and gets in way over their heads.

>>48804587
I don't see any God having a particular affinity within the Hawks.

Pre-heresy they are very much about Brotherhood and sneakiness.
Post-heresy they rage against the inevitable, and hunt those that betrayed them.

I guess that just means they are equally open to anyone.

>>48804699
I was thinking during the heresy. If I wanted to corrupt a Warhawk captain, I'd probably use his inner daredevil. Get him high on speed.

>>48792819
Probably at least a couple Scions have been Nurgled at various points in the legion's history.

>>48804936
I think undivided would be the best fit. Them being closest to Night Lords in regards to independence.

>>48805219
Speaking of, I'm trying to come up with a good name for the Sky Serpents terror dudes. The legion disrupts enemy cohesion by any means, and as a result, they have a group that specializes in Night Lords style horror. Unlike the Night Lords, it's not punitive justice, rather it's calculated atrocity intended to impair the enemy.
As a result, depending on the circumstances, it may explicitly focus on enemy leadership or appear random, but it is always carefully targeted to cause a collapse of enemy resistance and as a result, civilians are seldom targeted despite indications to the contrary.
They tend to work particularly closely with Section Eight.

Again, the idea is that deep down, the Sky Serpents are a lot like the Luna Wolves and have that core of brutality, but keep it controlled through a combination of Xun's doctrine and their own native impulse towards pack tactics.

>>48805648
>core of brutality
>keep it controlled... native impulse towards pack tactics

In my experience pack/group mentalities only serve to further brutality if the methods are explicitly opposed. I get that Xun's teaching do, it justs seems contradictory to use groupthink as a method of preventing brutality.

> name for the Sky Serpents terror dudes.
I'd actually go for an acronym name, like KGB, CIA, etc. You're naming system is quite unique so I can't really offer much insight into it though.

>civilians are seldom targeted
boo atrocity works best against civilians, its why terrorists target civvies rather than military bases. The payoff is far greater against those who can't defend themselves.

Democracies need to care about what the populations are thinking and dictatorships can be destrablised by creating an environment where if the leadership is seen to be the cause of the issues mobs will rise up and/or the targetting of military family members can be used to sway crucial targets such as generals/diplomats.

TLDR; I wouldnt' try and make the terror-dudes anything but terror-dudes, don't shy away from them being the blacksheep of the legion, embrace it. The job calls for cruelty, creativity, and general meanness. who better to do it than the creative cruel?

File: Giotto_-_Legend_of_St_Francis_-_-19-_-_Stigmatization_of_St_Francis.jpg (105KB, 658x744px) Image search: [Google]

105KB, 658x744px

>>48792819
The Warp Raiders are malal as fuck so traitor and loyalist loses all meaning.

Loyalist bloodhounds would be purged, hunted in a Most Dangerous Game situation throughout the galactic northern hunting grounds.

Some of the Abbots in Imperium Minorum bind daemons into posthuman hosts to create seraphim, daemons which are incomprehensible to third dimensional view, seeming to be a nonsensical cluster of wings, eyes, and wheels.

>>48805733
>Pack tactics
I more meant that they have a tendency towards being clever about things. Wolves rather than... something that's got a reputation for pure savagery... like... something with rabies. I suppose native inclination towards strategy or something would be better. They just can't help but want to be clever about it. They're velociraptors by nature, not T-rexes.

>Acronym
That's not a bad idea.

>Soft Civilian Targets
That's true. I guess I was thinking that there's not much point in targeting civilians, since it doesn't seem to work. Instead I'm thinking they try to create the perception that the civilians killed were somehow involved in opposing the legion. And opposing the legion gets you killed in a horrific manner. And all sorts of things, like working for the government, or whatever are opposing the legion. Then again, causing mass panic is useful too.
They just don't really go in for skinning an entire planet alive. They don't mind if you think they did, but they're more about building a sense of paranoia. But yeah, I see what you're saying and I agree with you. They're just more strategic about it than the Night Lords or the Void Lords, both of whom get into it.

Just letting you guys know, I won't be on much for the next two days. Home net is down.

On the subject of Loyalist traitors : I'm planning to have a Negator attempt to intervene in Aodhan and Funerus' fight along with Idrias.

>>48808752
The duel on Terra?

>>48809774
Nah, the first fight, on Malphas.

By the way Xun, do Tzokin Chapters have names or just numbers?

>>48809820
They've got names. Some date back to the early crusade, like the 1st Tzolkin Storm Wolves or the 22nd Knights of the Hydra.

Are we allowed to use fan made space marine chapters in this like the angry marines